BRAWLER and Mayo merch here! teespring.com/stores/underthemayo Support me on Patreon. patreon.com/underthemayo RUclips Memberships to my channel now available, click the "Join" button. Follow me on Twitch at twitch.tv/underthemayo
I was thinking maybe Nioh 2 since he likes Ninja Gaiden, but it has burst counter parrying as well, and if you want to be hyper aggressive, you need to be able to do shit like using Ippon to quickly counter, burst counters and things like Fist Opposrtunist to parry.
All these talk about not liking quick reaction times and defensive play really makes me wonder. Has Mayo played Sekiro? If not he really should. I don't know how to explain it but that game makes blocking and parrying somehow feel like part of the offense. There's just this constant flow of atacking, deflecting and counterattacking that's so hypnotizing to me and I really wonder how Mayo would feel about it.
That's because in a lot of ways, Deflecting IS attacking. The more you deflect, the higher the enemy's posture bar goes, which means the closer you are to scoring a Death Blow. By simply deflecting attacks, you are actively dealing damage to a health bar of sorts.
Great review but I have to disagree with the difficulty comment. The reason you can't start with hard mode is because it's basically a bunch of Master Levels/ reformatted playthrough, a new game + for maxed out characters. I'm fairly confident you couldn't beat hard mode with a fresh character- not that it's physically impossible, more so that it would take months of practice. (God only knows how long the highest difficulty would take.) And while this is more subjective, I honestly found my first playthrough of Bayonetta one of the hardest games I've ever played, and I find games like Sekiro and Enter The Gungeon easy, so an even higher difficulty at the start almost certainly isn't necessary. But I'm glad you got some milage out of the game!
When I unlocked Jeanne and Little Zero, I played through them in NG on Hard and...my god it was unreasonably difficult. Hard mode really is for a NG+ playthrough, it's there to test your knowledge of mechanics and push your audio reaction time to its limit.
I tried Hard mode after beating Bayonetta and I find it way harder then the DMC series on Son of Sparda diffculty to where I got to Chapter 2 before I decided to stick with Normal Mode.
I wish Bayonetta did a better job of teaching dodge offset early and explaining why it is useful so players can learn it on their initial run. It can help with surviving harder difficulties, not so much because of precision dodging, but by keeping your combo alive as you dance around the battlefield. Quite often it is better to deal a bit of damage to everything as you dodge around rather than focus down the enemies one by one.
The only way I could imagine to do that would be adding walls that can only be broken if offset occurs and/or making offset add to your meter. The game tests that you can use Witch Time outside of combat with the lightning statues which is sometimes for platforming through lava or breaking things fast. It also forces you to acknowledge that Bayo's falling has a hitbox many times which only works when you don't do attacks in between. I think adding a resource based incentive might be a good idea since they could probably add some sort of glow or prompt to make it more obvious.
I agree that the game doesn't teach you dodge offset very well, but i feel the mechanic is so satisfying that after doing it you just can't stop using it and it becomes such an essential part of the combo system, i like games that let you figure out some things by yourself and this was one the reason i liked the game so much especially on second playtrough
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with you. I always thought it is f*cking brilliant the game doesn't teach DO to the player. We don't need to learn DO to play the game. That's enough reason. But there are more reasons.
Does no one realize that the style meter in dmc games does give you more points? The higher your style the better the rank you will get at the end of the mission, which means more red orbs.
Not only that, a higher real time style rank gives more orbs when an enemy dies. It also affects attack speed, taunts, cancels, the length of attacks and enemy behaviour depending on the game. The "problem" is while it works great for style players or speedrunners who write, read and breathe the details. The game doesn't make it clear enough for people to appreciate it when they play relatively casually. This can be good thing if you are designing "Guts" in a fighting game which is a fake comeback mechanic which distorts the health bar to make the last portion of it worth more than it looks. It makes things look closer. It could also be good if Capcom didn't want to make more UI or to make it too obvious that people are doing badly outside the rank and gameplay.
He thinks the post mission grade is the only thing it’s for which is not true for part 5 Dante where Quadruple S is a thing (or part 4 Bloody Palace where the time extension demands it)
DMC: "Style Meter Does not count, it does not affect the game" - for those watching, this is false, although I don't blame Mayo for not knowing that, as DMC5 hardly makes it clear. Killing enemies while style meter is high will make that kill drop more Red Orbs. This applies to all DMC games. In DMC 3, having high style rank reduces the mashing required for "Crazy Combo" moves (Million Stab, Jam Session and similar "hit you a milion times" moves) as well as raising probability of enemies entering a "scared/panic" stance (Hell Pride will take a step back and hold its weapon to protect itself in a false block) when they witness their fellow getting killed. DMC 3 and 4 will award you more Red Orbs (3) or Proud Souls (4) at the end mission rating the better your ranking is. DMC 3 in particular explicitly tells you the orb bonus from rank, and has strict Style Meter and end mission rating system, requiring a lot of skill from the player to get those S or SS final mision ratings.
He has gone over the orbs in particular and think the point was that GoW is far more explicit about how bad play is harmful for your progress. If you are either a speedrunner or appreciate the systems of DMC, you would know a lot of those details but it wouldn't hurt to make things more surface level. I noticed the Hells backing away in DMC3, but didn't realise it was related to style rank at all. Thanks for that.
Agreed on the need for more explicity. However, playing DMC 3 (and base 4) it is much more apparent than in DMC 5. 5 gives you red orbs like candy even while playing badly, not to mention orb farming with the hat. DMC 3 and base 4 have much slower progression in unlocking new moves. Currency is more scarse, so doing good and getting high ranks will noticeably speed up skill aquisition. Oh, I forgot about combat adjudicators in 3 and 4. Why did Capcom remove them from 5? That is such a good mechanic to teach you getting to higer ranks.
@@wodzu_9319 Adjudicators were such a great inclusion in 3 with them testing your knowledge with single weapons. 4 was a cool progression since you could use anything and even juggle it... Both of them were like Trials for Street Fighter (which is also in the POC mobile DMC game) but freestyle. For some reason, the closest thing to it in 5 are the big orb container which drop Red Orbs which are present in earlier games... I wonder if it is the result of testers not liking them or more likely the story is Nero can't get Purple Orbs at all and doing those Adjudicators with multiple possible characters (V in particular) would be annoying to design or balance. They would still be able to do Blue Orbs, but Capcom are trying to sell them for real money.
Honestly, I feel that Bayonetta is at its strongest in Non-Stop Infinite Climax mode. You ditch Witch Time altogether (Time Bracelet let's you decide when to use Witch Time, allowing for cool combos) and the game plays much closer to a DMD playthrough, and sometimes kind of like Ninja Gaiden. You take advantage of Dodge Offset and dance around the enemy's attacks as you hit and run, then landing Wicked Weaves to get the upper hand in a situation. Add in things like missiles stunning and blowing things up, or using the whip to throw around smaller enemies, or even yank enemies closer like Nero for combos, and the game is SO damn fun. I've put well over 300 hours into this game since it came out, and I do the secret chapter maybe once every other week for fun.
It's ok that if you die, you recover with full health. The thing is, you've already been penalized for the death: you get less rewards now that you have died.
>doesn’t mention wicked weaves once >says the game is built around witch time when it’s disabled on NSIC >glosses over dodge offset >fails to mention the insanity of enemies like grace and glory >doesn’t talk about the “player accountability” of the magic meter This video was a mistake.
Bayonetta is not a defense oriented game. This is the criticism I see most from people who don't understand how the mechanics work together especially when they compare it to DMC or GoW or even NG. I think it's better to say that in Bayonetta offense and defense are one but not in the sense of how in other games a good offense is a good defense because dead enemies can't hurt you. In Bayonetta your wicked weaves are combo enders and do the bulk of your damage but take long to come out so you need to dodge offset if an enemy is about to hit you. And with panther offset you can zip around the arena throwing out instant wicked weaves if your fingers are fast enough. Bayonetta's mechanics let you play as offensive as you want and you're never punished for it because defense is never taken away from you like not being able to block in the air, or having to commit to long wind ups and recovery animations. The game does make you think that you should dodge and punish because of witch time but it's just there to supplement your already good offensive capabilities. NSIC shows that it's not even necessary.
What i like bayonetta is that it has much more interesting level designs compared to dmc. It has a lot of secret encounters and theres a bit of exploration considering its a combo centric game.
@@thelastgogeta true, stage design in 1 and 3 were pretty good. 4 was way too repetitive and 5 was all just arena fights. Although i do get the highlight of dmc are the complex combos. I still wish it had more interesting environments.
@@VergilMustDie666 DMC4 was repetitive, but had a chance of repeating some good stuff... Not the dice. The platforming in DMC peaked with Nero in 4, if I wish we would get more of it... Mods should have movement challenges for the characters.
@@VergilMustDie666 Funnily enough, i actually had a much better time with dmc 5 than with dmc 3 BECAUSE of the level design, i absolutely hated the fact that you could get lost and go back to previous locations of the tower FOR LITERALLY NO REASON, sure, having secrets might be fun, but i'm in here for the combat, and that's why i preferred dmc 5, it's a linear game where you go from one location to the next, fight stuff, and go in the straight line again, no pointless bullshit. The one thing that might've also made me dislike dmc 3's level design is the time mechanic, what's that? there's a timer at the scoreboard that let's me see if i get a good score depending on how fast i complete the level? damn, guess i can't go exploring much now or even try to look at the enviroment because there's a timer at the end that tells me if i don't go fast i suck, i really hated that, and i think it's great that they removed that thing in 5 entirely.
Now I really want to hear your thoughts on God Hand. It does have the problem of locking the hardest difficulty, *but* normal already expects you to master the basic gameplay loop and hard is just absolutely mental.
A very fair assessment of a game pretty outside your wheelhouse, and a lot of the complaints (while I really disagree) are backed up by either not being your kinda thing or being solved by a time investment and learning the mechanics. But c'mon man, this soundtrack is FULL of absolute bangers. Also, as a note, DMC's style system literally offers the same rewards and risks as God of War's. I'd call the system far better in fact, because it encourages variety above all else, whereas GoW simply demands a higher number of hits. Either way, good vid. Cheers for giving one of my faves a try.
I'd say the problem for mayo was that dmc5 makes higher ranks like S easier to get so more red orbs without playing that good or being challenged. I'm full on with him that if dmc5 allowed players to instantly choose hard, he wouldn't have such a bad first impression. I know i didn't cuz my first game in the series was dmc3, and that game on normal kicks players assess lol
The first time i played this game i got stone awards in most of the missions even on easy. But when i got the hang of the mechanics and get Platinum trophies on harder modes, i could say that this is the most exhilarating experience ever in my gaming life. It is so good i don't wanna uninstall it in my pc.
May i recommend Metal Gear Rising? It's by the same studio, I know you're definitely gonna have mixed views (and it is pretty defense heavy) but I'd love to hear your take on it. It's pretty short and sweet and the music is something thats stuck with me for years.
Sounds like the parry mechanic will be an obstacle to any enjoyment of the game. I never had much of a problem with it, but I know to plenty of players it's very finnicky.
A good fixed camera angle action game for you to try Mayo is Wonderful 101 by the same director as Bayonetta and DMC1. Full disclosure, it’s got a lot more arcade sections, and locked difficulties, but the combat is incredibly deep and it’s not as reaction based as Bayo.
Don’t wanna be that guy but you were wrong about the dmc5 style meter. Yes, it doesn’t have a huge effect on gameplay but getting better rankings increases the amount of orbs you get at the end of a level.
It also has a somewhat big effect on gameplay if you consider Quadruple S, which is a mechanic for Dante that lets you use Sin Devil Trigger for about 5 seconds without having to spend any of your SDT gauge, when you reach SSS rank in battle.
@@bucket9486 surprised that's never mentioned, as for the style meter Mayo's issue is he wants the game to punish you for losing style not your own pride which for me is more painful, why would I let the game tell me how to feel but when I think about the other people playing this game my mind thinks, "man I wanna be that cool too"
More Red orbs, different taunts, dynamic music, Quad S, style points, punchline skateboard timer etc... Style gauge actually affects a lot of things in DMC5
It's certainly a game where you have to balance between defense and offense. Attacking too much can end up with you getting hit, whereas dodging or blocking too much will leave you with no stamina to attack. It's nice that a parry system is there, but it's not the type of system I like. I prefer being able to press the button to parry an enemy the moment before it hits you. But in dark souls, the parry window opens up a bit after you press L2, which means you would have to learn the timing for when the parry window opens, and the time an attack would hit you. Learning both of those is definitely harder than just having a parry window open the moment you press the button. In jedi fallen order for example, the parry window opens immediately after pressing it, which makes it easier, but the window of time is shorter than in souls games, on the hardest difficulty. Only accounting for the timing of an enemy attack is much easier. So I never parry in dark souls 3, even though I did deathless runs many times.
I don’t know. Dark Souls 3 at least is fairly aggressive. In fact, I think shields are actually disincentivized since even with a stable shield, it costs much more stamina to block compared to the previous games and attacking costs quite a bit less. Also your roll speed is just about unaffected anywhere below 70% armor so you’re weaving and dodging like nobody’s business even with heavy armour and ginormous weapons. It’s actually kind of ridiculous how effective that kind of a build is in PvE because of that o_O (I love it though, it’s my favourite build probably)
I've tried both Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne for a small amount of time each and I still can't tell if I like Souls combat. I think my ideal combat lets you move and attack independently (like Doom Eternal *cough cough*) but I LOVE the idea of Souls combat a lot too, plus I always play laggy heavies in fighting games. I think my issue is I want to be able to move/attack freely when fighting multiple enemies. Then again, that's probably the challenge of Souls games isn't it?
@@miy1925hassun I think shields are great if you are using something at least as light as a longsword. I have a build that uses the millwood axe, and it shreds. With that axe, and a cathedral knight greatshield, I am able to block through the entirety of pontiff sulyvahn's attack pattern, and still have plenty of stamina left to attack him. In fact, pontiff is really easy with my build. I also got the shield and axe to at least +6. So having a greatshield and any good physical weapon with strength is excellent for pve.
I'm not sure why you still prop up GoW combo counter as an example of good design and lambast DMC's style meter as superficial when they're both essentially the same thing. They're both their to indicate how well you're doing and reward you with more of the game's currency to obtain more moves, and they both can be ignored if mashing your way to the end is all your concerned about. I'd say DMC's style meter gives a more clear indication of playing well since you can't get and stay at a high rating through repetitive moveset and GoW's counter gives you no frame of reference to how high is high in terms of the hit counter.
@@Aladelicous It makes GOW the superior action game. That one flaw in DMC5 ruins the mobility. Darksiders 1-3 doesn't have that issue, neither do the Ninja Gaiden games, ni-oh or Dark Souls. That is a game mechanic flaw for DMC5 and it kills momentum.
@@MedIevalCyrax the original creator of God of War even commented that DMCs combat was better than GOW, so no. And you still haven't explained what any of that has to do with my original comment.
@@carltasticdrew9633 - I can understand the color to be honest, even if I kind of like it. It's a shame though, it's really good how the parry can incentivise both defensive and offensive playstyles just by precise timing. Only thing that really suck apart from the camera (pretty normal for Platinum) is that there isn't some kind of quick weapon swap.
The game's combat isn't button mashy, you're just mashing buttons. If you hold every attack, which makes Bayo keep her pose and rapid fire her guns, you do WAY more damage. This also make dodging enemies a dozen times easier because you're not focussing on mashing buttons and then suddenly dodging. Dodge Offset is one side of the same coin. If you don't make sure you hod every pose on every button press, dodge offset will be harder to pull off and is also generally useless because you're not even doing the damage you're supposed to be doing in your combo. Also the cutscenes are a non-issue because holding select and RB or RT automatically skips cutscenes. If it doesn't, you know there will be a cutscene QTE. Some of the accessories in the store are extremely useful. The moon of Akhala lets yo push the stick in the direction of an enemy attack to parry them and get tons of magic. It's literally better than witch time in every way. In fact you can still use it in the hardest difficulty, which turns witch time off. Another thing you can use in the harrdest difficulty is an accessory that launches bombs when you dodge enemy attacks, which makes dodging more offensive. I was on your stream the other day recommending The Wonderful 101. It's a game made by the same person but with a much more colorful artstyle, enemies that stick out more, a static isometric camera and a different spin on the reaction based mechanics in Bayonetta. It also has dodge offset and tons of abilities from Bayonetta and DMC that you can literally just buy from the store and use as accessories. Wonderful 101 DOES have those odd minigame sections but they're not as bad as Bayo... but they get there.
I think he already adressed this in a video the same way but i might give my 2 cents on this. If the game let's me play button mashing and doesn't punish me for doing so, Is it my fault? And i get it, on hard the game starts punishing me for not playing correctly, so why locking the difficulty after playing the one that doesn't punish sloppy gameplay? That's mostly the why he complained about the mashing part and just getting how the game is supposed to be played after getting to play on hard. Btw, i agree wonderful 101 is also awesome. Kamiya makes some banges
It's kinda cool that a prototype for Resident Evil 4 accidentally created a whole genre back in the day. I tried Bayonetta when it came out. Not for me.
Fair review. One thing I disagree with is maybe you saying that the game is designed around Witch time. That's sort of true, but the deeper you get you find out that the game is actually entirely designed around Dodge offset, not Witch Time. In fact, the difficulty that unlocks after Hard removes Witch Time from the game. Once you learn Dodge offset to the point you're just constantly doing it instinctively, the combat really becomes a kind of free-flowing dance that fits Bayonetta so well.
Yeah, I was laughing at how he was describing Bayo 2 more accurately with that point even if by accident. Witch Time looks integral on face value and it is really well balanced, but not essential to being an effective player at the highest level.
@@andrewrogers3067 She can, you just need to do perfect dodge, by evading in exact moment you've being hit (When she turn's into moth), it is purchasable move for Bayonetta. IIRC it's actually in the description of the character that it needs more presicion to activate Witch Time with her.
Style system is and always will be an essential part of DMC-esque games. I bet you'd feel real good after seeing that D rank on your screen. long story short, not every game will push you into its fun zone like doom eternal does, those games will have other mechanisms instead, like style meter. So the style meter massively counts in the gameplay, it is after all what makes it different from just another hack n slasher. The whole point is being stylish in combat, not efficient.
It's interesting, Doom Eternal pushes you into playing stylishly too by just having such a fine-tuned survival system. It plays like it has a style meter. Being efficient with your weapons and ammo makes you look stylish. I think games should strive to do both more often. Doom 2016 had the problem of efficiency alone resulting in simple strategies, which the devs realized and is why they made Eternal's resource management more strict. That restriction made way more players have to be way more stylish to survive. People act like style and surival are mutually exclusice, but I think they're intrinsically linked. Anyway just my thoughts. Have a good one.
@@RacingSnails64 Problem with Doom eternal pushing you to play a certain way in it's mechanics is that it strips freedom. Where as games like DMC and Bayo give you almost complete freedom to style how you want. DE is tons of fun and great rush to play on the highest difficulties, but it loses some of that aspect of self expression that DMC has. Mayo likes to have a coloring book in front of him which he can color how he likes and enjoys the beautiful picture once it's finished. But when he's given an empty canvas he turns into a dollar store Jackson Pollock and hates the end result because the empty canvas isn't telling him what to do.
@@underthemayo I think Bayonetta and maybe some other PlatinumGames both have an excuse due to how mechanics might change completely by the end, but they also have cheats to unlock select content which are usually performed with in-game currency. Perhaps the idea is that besides the later difficulties being unsuitable for new players is that it would hurt the value assessment from people if they didn't need to go through at least one difficulty. Personally, I haven't had an incentive to play on lower difficulties after playing on hard unless I want to get Pure Platinum on all difficulties for an unlockable or something.
@@randomguy6094 Does it really acomplish that? I don't think so because they're letting you fall into a lot of habits (like mashing buttons as if you were brain dead) that are caused due to the lowered difficulty, that can also not be transferred into the hard difficulty because of... well, the harder level of difficulty. Wouldn't it be 10 times simpler if you were playing on the hard difficulty in the first place? (especially if you find no joy in the easy type of gameplay.
@@vargamarioalexan9853 I don't think necessarily so no. Even on the normal difficulty it can be brutal and very punishing if you're not using the mechanics. Hell even on my normal first playthrough of Bayonetta I would consistently have about four deaths through the first playthrough and get participation trophies. That was more than enough info for me to learn I was not playing the game to its optimal performance. And your first playthrough should not be on hard let's be honest especially for platinum games which are notorious for being difficult
I got completely ofended when he said he didnt liked the music lmao. its ok tho but aside from that, i feel he kinda contradicts himself sometimes, like the way he dislikes having to go through a normal run before getting into the higher levels, but then disliking the higher levels bc they demand good reflexes, in the same way he praises GoW to force you to learn basic combos before unlocking new ones, and dislikes bayonettas instant pool of combos bc the game doesn't pushes him to learn the mechanics in certain way, this after saying he doesnt enjoy a game that wont give you a challenge immediatly if you want. So sometimes he likes this freedom of taking a challenge, but also likes the game schooling your way through. I do think it's personal taste at the end, in my opinion the hard dodging on higher levels equals lots of action for me bc my brain has to be very active hearing and seeing every attack cue to prepare a dodge. Also this combines very well with the combo pool since you can pretty much always shape your gameplay in every way you want
I feel like the one thing I find so weird about you is your reverence for the old God of War games. They're good games don't get me wrong, but almost everyone else who likes "character action" games considers them shallow and easy. I'm actually finally playing God of War 3 now (I didn't have a PS3 and I put off the PS4 remaster for years clearly), and with Mayo's voice echoing in my head, I'm doing my first playthrough on hard. Particularly relevant to this video is that I find hard in GoW3 to be much much easier and much much much mashier than my first play through of Bayonetta on normal. Most of the difficulty in GoW3 comes from spongy enemies that just take a hilariously long time to kill, in contrast to even DMC5 which I agree was too easy on norma but at least the enemies challenged me in ways that weren't simply "takes a long time to kill so don't fuck up!" Edit: I do just want to be clear that I *really like* the classic God of War games. Just moreso for the spectacle, the puzzles, and the overall "feel" of the combat moreso than the depth or challenge
Yeah, as someone with triple digit hours in games like DMC and Bayo and the like, GoW is a complete cakewalk. The series' reliance on spectacle over substance always irked me, and I never found the series as satisfying as its japanese counterparts. A lot of the latter games were also a lot more visually easy to follow as well, IMO. At least Bayo for example really clearly indicates when certain enemies are attacking, both audibly and visually, and even makes every tell distinct for each enemy
One thing Mayo keeps on forgetting that the very inspiration for GOW was DMC and it's DMD mode is also copied in GOW 2018, wherein if you don't kill the enemies quick enough, they get bugged and gain a level, these things that GOW is doing in 2018, DMC did all the way back, MAYO needs to put some serious respect on Hideki Kamiya's name!!!
I was about to say dodge offset but it seems like you find that reaction time hard to master itself. It's unfortunate cause that's the most important and fun mechanic for me- mastering it makes even hard mode very easy. I was also bad at beginning but there are trials to earn heart pieces and other stuff- these trials are very hard and attempting them will absolutely train you in the dodge feature. I agree I was bored in some missions and those mini games, also I was not a fan of the aesthetics. I liked some of the music but nothing that memorable except maybe 1 or 2 tracks. But still good review, my favourite hack n slash game is DMC3 which has amazing music too and I think that it better. Metal Gear rising is also reallly good, you might cover that game someday. Still Bayonetta is one of my fav big booba milf character and just because of that I give it a 10/10
It's not so much about how hard it is. It's that it's so constant. And I'm all for mastering the deep mechanics. But that's not something I'm gonna do for a game I'm not that crazy about.
@@underthemayo Yea no I get it. I'm not that crazy for this game either XD. I don't think I spend much time in any game- just finish it 1-2 times and I'm done with it. Ive heard bayonetta 2 is an improvement over this in every way but it's not on pc so I haven't played that yet.
@@lalitendudas9401 Bayo 2 is only an improvement if you want Angel Attack gone and insta-death QTEs as well to leave. The game is actually infamous for being better for single playthrough folks, but worse for speedrunners or technical players. I can detail how it is more mashy, less punishing meter wise or even direct you to podcasts on the topic but hopefully you get the idea.
@@thelastgogeta no more insta death qte and good for single playthroughs? That's sounds like a game for me! Although I don't remember what was angel attack again? Was that something related to the wicked weaves? But anyhow I'd certainly like to play it if it comes to pc cause I really don't have any other console. Emulator is an option too but I play with keyboard mouse so idk if it'd work out at all..
It was somewhat enjoyable but honestly I think the combat system is definitely not on the same level as the other games he mentions (NG, GOW, DMC and bayonetta)
Tbh along with the option to choose any difficulty from the beginning I also prefer when games let you change the difficulty any time in the playthrough on the fly from the menu. It really helps imo. I always like challenge so I mostly pick hard on most combat focused games. But sometimes if I find myself in a very difficult part of the game I like to lower the difficulty thinking that I have to ease myself up and maybe learn more about the game.
It’s definitely a “get good” game. If you’re not good you won’t reach the “ badass untouchable witch eviscerating angels in the most stylish way possible” fluid fast paced gameplay. I personally have over 300 hours on this game and over 400 on Bayonetta 2 because I love the exhilaration and over the top battles and music, i think everyone should try it out at least once having some knowledge beforehand of dodge offset.
Very good point about enemy design colors. They can help to signify what makes each enemy unique, as different enemies tend to have different attack patterns to react to.
Being fair, enemies have different silhouettes, unique big weapons, distinct sound cues and also have colour coding for larger threats. Some of the colour gets lost with the bloody screen which I don't like or if an enemy gets beaten up as their injuries show up on their mode, but that's a clear sign that they can be killed fast or if they will change behaviour due to being damaged.
It’s so funny - you explained in reverse why I love Bayonetta I & II with all my heart, but don’t love God of War and DMC. I love reacting, parrying and being rewarded for my ability to quickly understand an attack is coming and set myself up for success, and I have a much harder time being on the offensive al the time because my brain is always in defense mode. I pretty much stay on Royal Guard in DMC. I’m actually gonna take what you said here and give GOW another chance.
1 thing ill correct you on. Style meter does count it raises your devil trigger faster and also allows you to enter and exit sin devil trigger at SSS rank. Also great video!
"I'm not gonna finish my hard mode run" idk what to say. You put up with Give Me God of War lack of player respect but having to be active while comboing is too much? Idk Mayo that's just a weird criticism for me. Even GoW as plenty of moments where you're forced into stick and poke offense (GOW 1 lvl 1 in particular tbf it is lvl 1 run tho) Like I get it no wants to fight with seemingly neutered and passive offense. But in Bayo 1theres only really like 2 enemies that force you to stick and poke. ( In Bayo 2 I would actually be more inclined to agree with you as dodge offset becomes borderline necessary even at lower difficulties for some bosses [there are ways to cheese tho]) Especially if we take dodge offset into application then I'd argue the opposite. It becomes a punch and weave(as in boxing slip). Like you are slipping counters to set up your own inside the enemies pocket. Which is very different from stick and poke. And lends itself well to the dodge offset mechanic. You mentioned not really fucking with Royal Guard which I find downright shameful tbh. (Yes a bit of an elitist thought admittedly) but the style shows off a lot of the genius behind the enemy design and how it pushes you into changing it up. I used to exclusively rely on trickster for easy s, projectile ignoring, and easy extensions. But locking yourself down to just the raw weapon moves really brings out the tiny details. Is Bayo big on Dodging? For sure. Do I think it's necessarily detrimental, no. Considering there are items to help you completely negate dodging. You can beat all but infinite not even really dodge offsetting. Just have setup your weaves from further back. And tbh I think infinite is doable without dodge offset. (To you bayo fans I'm saying without items.) Now if we include items, dodge offset and the constant stick and poke pressure isn't even required. (Some bosses might challenge this but they are bosses) Granted you are still forced to react quickly but I dont see how a game demanding defensive reaction is much different from demanding offensive reaction. Especially when in this game the dodge turns the tables. It literally flips you from defense to offense. Idk man been pouring time into both Bayo 1 and 2 lately. So just had some thoughts. appreciate the video Mayo
It's got the Majora's Mask effect now, where a game is so underrated that its cult following props it up so much that it becomes commonly known as an "underrated game" and paradoxically becomes overrated. Still good tho
@@johnnyguitar8067 Hm, i don't see that. I doesn't mentioned that often, outside of people following mattewmathosis. There's very few reviews for the game on both metacritic and steam which means low popularity, and no news on game sales which mean's it sold poorly, and original didnt sell well even by niche games standarts. Looks like to me that it do not even reach a niche within "niche" audience with new ports.
sekiro, although based on a lot of parrying, has really forgiving timings and has its defense mechanism tied perfectly into offense. that means that a parry is often more of an offensive move than an attack. when you get into the rhythm, the fun zone really starts
My mistake was playing Bayonetta with a keyboard and mouse. The boss fight with the sea angel thing made me nearly break my keyboard from mashing QTE's so hard, and I was gasping for air by the end of it from the absolutely relentless arm/hand workout. I did beat it though, albeit absolutely drenched in sweat lmao
4:34 Ironically (though I'm not sure if you played as him) Vergil ,in his DLC, doesn't have this problem since his playstyle is based on a concentration meter. When you do damage, the meter goes up (with a max of 3 levels I think). Eqch level increases the range and/or damage of his attacks , as well as allowing him to perform potentially screen clearing super moves However, if you get hit or miss an enemy or run, the meter will fall drastically and minimize your efficiency Ironically, tho, Vergil's problem is that he's the franchise's unnoficial "Very Easy" mode XD
I got stuck at a boss fight in the sequel because of poor reaction time, yeah, this series is basically Doom but every enemy is a marauder and you get no Healthpacks
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 I dont really get that complaint. I mean yeah its up your ass but you have a minimap, multiple ways to dodge and at the very least it's always consistent.
Hey, loved your review and your honesty. Even as someone who loves Bayonetta, I think all your points are pretty valid (except for the soundtrack which I think is amazing). But I would say there's a much easier way to tell when the enemy is about to attack. Rather than looking for the white flash, pay attention to the sounds they make (usually a grunt and a reaching cymbal). They do a sound tell before the visual tell, and also we humans react faster to sound than visuals (this is often discussed in the Fighting Games community). Telling yourself to dodge just one time instead of a lot helps you be prepared. I suggest you give the game just a last chance to see if you like it more going in knowing this. Also you mentioned you don't like parrying, but there's a bracelet called Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa that let's you parry by pushing in the direction of the enemy attack right before it hits you, and it offers the same benefits of perfect dodging. It definitely fits a more aggressive style. And finally, Bayonetta 2 addresses a lot of your complaints, so maybe you'll like it more.
It seems you didn't unlock "Bat Within"............. It is in Rodin's store. This is one of the most important things to buy.. specially in hard mode. I don't understand why you went to hard mode if you don't know how to play and use all Bayonetta's abilities. Another thing, I enjoyed so much the mini-game in the end of every level, I liked it so much. So not agree. Shame they removed it from Bayonetta 2. And I also loved the bike level, this game was a giver.
Since you mentioned it, I would actually love to hear your full thoughts on DMC5. I recently played through it twice. I'm not a fan of hack n slash games, but DMC5 was an absolute joy for me. Especially the music. And because Vergil is the antithesis of the "final boss when you unlock them" meme. He's an absolute unit to play as. Edit: Also. Bloodborne. I can honestly recommend that one to you after hearing your thoughts on Bayonetta's combat. It's health system is extremely fun as it encourages you to keep offensive pressure even if you get the crap smacked out of you.
Out of interest, have you tried Metal Gear Rising? I feel like the way the game handles blocking with attacking into an enemy's attack would gel with your offense focused play.
I remember my friend told me to try this game and I thought it was just a button masher. In a way it is, but it’s so fun when you get good at it, cause it makes me feel super hyper aware to land the perfect juicy dodge
Hey Mayo, I recommend you give Hollow Knight a try if you haven’t already. It scratched the hard-to-reach itch many games failed to after I played Doom Eternal.
One of the arkham games? One of my favorite franchises due to many reasons. One of those reasons of course is the gameplay, one of the two main chunks of which being between beat-em-up combat that I’d personally say is in between GOW and Bayonetta in terms of offense and defense. The other half is stealth that relies on positioning yourself and the enemies to perform takedowns, which now that I think of it idk if you’ve ever covered a stealth game, may be wrong on that. I’ll finish with saying that the combat does reward you XP to use for upgrades via good combo length and variety, while the stealth, at least to my memory, does do the same but not to the same extent that I personally wish it did Sorry for my essay and I hope you’ll check it out!
while I think Bayonetta is cool, I prefer DMC much more greatly simply because of how combos work in that game. With Dante specifically. You are able to wheave a lot of seperate moves into each other whereas Bayo is moreso premade strings which you then execute. And funnily enough Dodge Offset contributes to that "problem" even more greatly. Once you learn it, you often go through that game without even thinking about your attacks. You just mash out your combos. Dodge when you need to. Continue the combo. All you pretty much do is much to reach the next random wicked wheave. There is fun to the flow that it has, but idk. I much prefer how Dante encourages me to use my brain because I gotta work harder to actually get some fun combos going
So I just played through ultra violence doom 2016 and eternal and I have no idea why you hold that on the pinnacle of difficulty because they felt very newcomer friendly
The game doesnt have to be mashy and I’m not the type of person to say this but get good. The combos aren’t limited to mash punch like you been demonstrating thoughout the entire video. From what I can see you have short attention span and no desire to actually learn complex techniques. Also kind of confused when you say you wanted a hard mode? When you said yourself you haven’t finished your hard play though. Also yeah everyone dislikes the route 666 and rocket part but they are references to sega’s earlier games that over stayed it’s welcome. You can skip angel attavk mini game you aren’t forced to play that.
While I personally feel that just normal mode unlocked is not enough in these games it makes a lot of sense for the devs to lock difficulties behind first play through or cheat codes, many people go into higher difficulties wanting a challenge but never having played the game before, in most action games harder difficulties are built off of people’s skill from a first play through, and so can then be built around that instead of a person who’s never spent a second in the game, action games especially with how short they are, make up for that with replayability, and part of that comes from the still unlocking stuff later on, like more difficulties to challenge you even more, it’s a pretty good idea, it could probably be communicated better and I do think maybe giving cheat codes or ways of unlocking them early could be nice, but it’s a good thing to see a higher difficulty not be a starting point, and treated as hard and tough
I loved Bayonetta. I'm disappointed #2 is only available on Nintendo because there are no other games I'd want a Nintendo system for so I'll probably never get to play it.
If it weren't on nintendo it wouldn't be anywhere as the project was already sunk before nintendo put the money yo save the franchise. You can criticize Nintendo all You want, but it majes perfect sense to make it an exclusive if You literally paid for the Game Tom exist
@@underthemayo That's true. I guess Air Dodge is ingrained into my playstyle so much, I always have a hard time playing without Air Dodge whenever I start another new save file.
I knew I was in for some rookie complaints when you said you love god of war but had problems with dmc5. They're not even in the same realm of gameplay quality.
I know you've been doing it for a while, but I love this viewer-driven content stuff, it works out really well for you whether you enjoy the games or not!
No offense I don't quite understand your problem with block difficulty, especially since you're not very good at reaction time. you would not survive the harder difficulties without good reaction and the upgrades.
Well it's kinda like royal guard in dmc 4 where its like one frame for perfect block and some of the enemy attacks aren't telegraphed well. Frosts for example are notorious in the community for having awkward timings that don't feel consistent.
@@bruhder5854 okay that's fair but it's not like it can't be done you just need to practice. My issue is that you can't complain about lot difficulty when you haven't mastered the system on a normal difficulty
@@MrDegenerate28 that much is fair I agree with you there. A lot of these types of games in the past weren't refined enough to truly make everything flow perfectly so some stuff always ended up being a major issue for some people.
Since the release of DOOM Eternal, you have become my favourite yt channel. We share the same views about different games and movies. I've been wondering, have you have tried game series like F.E.A.R., Dark Souls, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., BioShock and Darksiders?
Mayo is becoming one of my favorite game youtubers. He has a keen eye for game design and how challenge is implemented in a game. Loving your videos lately. Also I will add to the Sekiro/Metal Gear Rising recomendation.
I would love to see a video of your opinions on God Hand. My fav PS2 game. Made by then Clover studios. Made up of people that now work at Capcom and Platinum games.
I loved Bayonetta - played it through 4 or 5 times, doing all plat on ultra climax. It took me a long, long time, and I had to use some guides for help in the fights. That took more than a few tries. It was just a fun game to get good at. I don't typically like mashy games either, but for me, the way the defensive mechanics tied in make it cool. I know this is sort of a side point since you only used it for comparison, but I disagree to some extent on rewarding good play for permanent RPG-style upgrades, as in GoW. Or at least, it has to be carefully done. This is a challenge in game design, and there's never a perfect answer for it. It's easy to get in positive/negative feedback loops, where the game is made easier for good players and harder for bad players. There are a few good ways to handle it, IMO, for non-rogue-like games: 1 - Focus on short-term rewards: Bayonetta's magic meter is an example. It's great in a single fight or checkpoint to get rewarded for doing the early parts well. It makes it fun to retry after a death and see improvement even if you don't beat the section. And if you just scrape by, you don't feel frustrated or want to restart manually because the reward isn't big enough. 2 - Make the rewards side-grades: Instead of just providing you with stronger options or ugpraded stats or something, give the player another weapon or combo. Something that increases complexity, but only makes you better if you really have the skill to use it. Another weapon, combo, or small mechanic. 3 - Give players a chance to re-do a bad section: Stage select, checkpoint select, something like that. And not in the sense that you can grind to get more points, but maybe only provide the player with the difference in new vs old rewards. If you got 10k on the 1st playthrough, and 15k on the second, provide the player with 5k or something. Or you have to hit some number to earn a new weapon/mechanic. Anyway, just my thoughts. Great vid, keep 'em comin!
You make great vids, but for some reason you think it's a fair critique to fully analyze an action game's difficulty after only 1 1/2 playthroughs of a game. You played like a scrub on normal, and used items as well. You then had the audacity to say that the normal difficulty is too easy. You haven't "gotten it" when it comes to playing character action games.
Mayo and some of the people commenting can’t fathom why higher difficulties are locked out at first. They insist that there is no reasonable justification for this when unlocking said difficulties is the reward in the first place. In Bayonetta and DMC’s case, this was never a flaw. You proved that you can beat the game on normal, so here’s hard. Simple. To be fair, I don’t think these types of games would be worse off if people had the options of higher difficulties to begin with, but this certainly wouldn’t be an improvement. It’s just adding something to another thing that was a non-issue.
@@psnfailout000 Bayo 2 actually took the approach of having the hard difficulty available from the start. The problem with bayo 2 is that the hard difficulty is just bayo 1's normal. I don't think he realizes that becoming fluent with the game's mechanics takes multiple playthroughs.
@@chsi5420 yea and your supposed to use gear and tactics to later on to make It easier like more damage from this or the parry move u unlock that launches people dodging did feel a bit weird since I went from bayo 2 to one you can’t spam it like u did in 2
@@mrthanos8140 In character action games, most of the tools needed to master the game are available from the start, while certain moves and weapons do help, most of your success in these games is wholly determined by player skill.
Honestly you just don't know how to play this game. This game can be very offensive once you master the system. Combat is very deep. It doesn't always have to be for noobs for people to enjoy the game
Metal gear risings parry mechanic is really good innit that you only need to tap the attack button once right before a enemy attacks, you just have to time it right but it works really well once you get the hang of it
I think I got 5 hours into Bayonetta before dropping it. To me it was a decent game brought down by the incredible amount of tiny frustrations it comes attached to, it got so annoying that whatever was fun didn't feel worth the hassle.
You definitely aren’t playing the game right. You can be offensive on higher difficulties, but you have to utilize wicked weave (giant hair fists) I noticed you kept using long combos, which you’re not really supposed to do. Also there’s a parry that has a pretty generous window, so you have defensive options. I will say that if normal mode is supposed to be the “tutorial” it teaches new players bad habits, but let’s not pretend god of war is the standard for action for action games
That's my whole point. The playstyle required by high level difficulty is one that I didn't find personally enjoyable, though I can see how well made it is. It would be cool if there was something in between normal and hard, that taught better habits but wasnt so reliant on constant defense.
@@underthemayo Another difficulty could be an idea, but it would be better to incorporate a real Dodge Offset teaching tool into the game than add difficulty mode filler. There are already statues that demand you to dodge and demonstrate Witch Time. Blocks which respond to being hit. Opportunities to jump and panther jump. To fall with the weight of a tall lady. Dodge Offset is much harder to communicate, but if the presentation was more obvious they would have room to gate your progress till you do one offset and maybe two later in the game. I'm not sure any of the PlatinumGames ever do this unfortunately.
@@underthemayoive mentioned it in my comment above, but you should really be taunting enemies or equipping the gaze of despair from rodins shop. it costs 100000 rings but once equipped, you have more aggressive enemies on whatever difficulty you are on.
@@Thoughtspeakable i appreciate the tips but I'm just not into the game enough overall to want to dive into the specific strategies. I played it a couple times and that was enough for me.
Dante’s Inferno if you haven’t played it yet. I grew up playing hack n slash’s such as Bayonetta, DMC, God of War and Dante’s inferno. Such a disturbingly beautiful game
Very good video. Love how you actually break down the combat and gamplay vs other game reviews. Can you do a god of war ascension or how you play 3 like a doom guy?
Wonderful 101 doom eternal's weapon chess done in its extreme less quick reaction right amount of cutscene (i skipped every Bayonetta cutscene after a few chapters) gow big boy spectacle boss fights isometric camera colored enemies kamiya's shoehorned vehicle minigames is alright this time
Bayonetta doesn't have that much of a defensive combat system, except the parry from Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa. In fact, Bayo's system focuses on moving to and fro in the field to basically keep attacking while weaving across and through your enemies.
What i really like about your reviews is that you always say what you think and won't let people dictate if you like the game or not, you bring something new by challenging established game design and mechanics
DMC5 style meter has a whole quadruple S mechanic that's tied to Dante's combat in a VERY SUBSTATIAL way. It's like, one of his most powerful weapons. So saying the style meter doesn't affect gameplay is just patently false.
Maybe vanquish for the next one? Idk if you'd like it especially from the talking points from this video but its still such a challenging fun game imo.
BRAWLER and Mayo merch here! teespring.com/stores/underthemayo
Support me on Patreon. patreon.com/underthemayo
RUclips Memberships to my channel now available, click the "Join" button.
Follow me on Twitch at twitch.tv/underthemayo
I fucking love these analysis/review videos that Mayo makes. I like watching his gameplay too. Both is good.
@@sakigsak0 Bleach Messa
Play Ninja Gaiden 2 on Xbox.
Now you have to play Godhand.
Don't question it.
*Just dew eet*
Please play Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. It has plenty of the kind of camera you like, and is pretty God of War-like in general.
"I'm not a fan of quick-time defense"
Me: *removes my Sekiro suggestion*
I was thinking maybe Nioh 2 since he likes Ninja Gaiden, but it has burst counter parrying as well, and if you want to be hyper aggressive, you need to be able to do shit like using Ippon to quickly counter, burst counters and things like Fist Opposrtunist to parry.
Actually sekiro you can mash the party button and that's it... I did and it even worked for ish in ashina so....
sekiro block is a whole 30 frames, you can sleep while parrying
@@eduardosolorzano5020 please post a video of you just spamming parry to ishhin/demon of hatred/ even just genechiro I would love to see it
@@garsedj Ik right that's why everyone says it's probably the easiest game of all time
All these talk about not liking quick reaction times and defensive play really makes me wonder. Has Mayo played Sekiro? If not he really should. I don't know how to explain it but that game makes blocking and parrying somehow feel like part of the offense. There's just this constant flow of atacking, deflecting and counterattacking that's so hypnotizing to me and I really wonder how Mayo would feel about it.
Not yet but I will.
That's because in a lot of ways, Deflecting IS attacking. The more you deflect, the higher the enemy's posture bar goes, which means the closer you are to scoring a Death Blow. By simply deflecting attacks, you are actively dealing damage to a health bar of sorts.
@@underthemayo sekiro best rythm game
only if mayo liked rpgs enough to play all soulsborne games
@@underthemayo Sekiro is a MUST dude! One of the most satisfying gameplay experiences I ever had!
@@underthemayo ON NOOO
Now I gotta replay this game again
I legit don't blame you. Such a genuine blast, but an absolute ass-kicker too! Absolutely worth coming back to!
Great review but I have to disagree with the difficulty comment. The reason you can't start with hard mode is because it's basically a bunch of Master Levels/ reformatted playthrough, a new game + for maxed out characters. I'm fairly confident you couldn't beat hard mode with a fresh character- not that it's physically impossible, more so that it would take months of practice. (God only knows how long the highest difficulty would take.) And while this is more subjective, I honestly found my first playthrough of Bayonetta one of the hardest games I've ever played, and I find games like Sekiro and Enter The Gungeon easy, so an even higher difficulty at the start almost certainly isn't necessary. But I'm glad you got some milage out of the game!
When I unlocked Jeanne and Little Zero, I played through them in NG on Hard and...my god it was unreasonably difficult. Hard mode really is for a NG+ playthrough, it's there to test your knowledge of mechanics and push your audio reaction time to its limit.
I tried Hard mode after beating Bayonetta and I find it way harder then the DMC series on Son of Sparda diffculty to where I got to Chapter 2 before I decided to stick with Normal Mode.
@@KaiKrimson56 yeah
Fucking Gold Glory & Grace
i played it on the max difficulty and it was so boring i uninstalled it, i would have enjoyed a challenge, also camera jank
I wish Bayonetta did a better job of teaching dodge offset early and explaining why it is useful so players can learn it on their initial run. It can help with surviving harder difficulties, not so much because of precision dodging, but by keeping your combo alive as you dance around the battlefield. Quite often it is better to deal a bit of damage to everything as you dodge around rather than focus down the enemies one by one.
The only way I could imagine to do that would be adding walls that can only be broken if offset occurs and/or making offset add to your meter.
The game tests that you can use Witch Time outside of combat with the lightning statues which is sometimes for platforming through lava or breaking things fast. It also forces you to acknowledge that Bayo's falling has a hitbox many times which only works when you don't do attacks in between.
I think adding a resource based incentive might be a good idea since they could probably add some sort of glow or prompt to make it more obvious.
I agree that the game doesn't teach you dodge offset very well, but i feel the mechanic is so satisfying that after doing it you just can't stop using it and it becomes such an essential part of the combo system, i like games that let you figure out some things by yourself and this was one the reason i liked the game so much especially on second playtrough
Dodge offset actually makes the game a bit easier
true! I really love bayonneta combat
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with you. I always thought it is f*cking brilliant the game doesn't teach DO to the player. We don't need to learn DO to play the game. That's enough reason. But there are more reasons.
Does no one realize that the style meter in dmc games does give you more points? The higher your style the better the rank you will get at the end of the mission, which means more red orbs.
Not only that, a higher real time style rank gives more orbs when an enemy dies. It also affects attack speed, taunts, cancels, the length of attacks and enemy behaviour depending on the game.
The "problem" is while it works great for style players or speedrunners who write, read and breathe the details. The game doesn't make it clear enough for people to appreciate it when they play relatively casually.
This can be good thing if you are designing "Guts" in a fighting game which is a fake comeback mechanic which distorts the health bar to make the last portion of it worth more than it looks. It makes things look closer.
It could also be good if Capcom didn't want to make more UI or to make it too obvious that people are doing badly outside the rank and gameplay.
yea, but it's kind of hidden, and the bonuses aren't too big, not in dmc 5 at least
I mean, the existence of Quadruple S should at the very least debunk that statement in regards to Dante.
He thinks the post mission grade is the only thing it’s for which is not true for part 5 Dante where Quadruple S is a thing (or part 4 Bloody Palace where the time extension demands it)
Yeah, but you already have so many orbs it doesn’t really matter, and why do you even need the orbs in the first place.
DMC: "Style Meter Does not count, it does not affect the game" - for those watching, this is false, although I don't blame Mayo for not knowing that, as DMC5 hardly makes it clear.
Killing enemies while style meter is high will make that kill drop more Red Orbs. This applies to all DMC games. In DMC 3, having high style rank reduces the mashing required for "Crazy Combo" moves (Million Stab, Jam Session and similar "hit you a milion times" moves) as well as raising probability of enemies entering a "scared/panic" stance (Hell Pride will take a step back and hold its weapon to protect itself in a false block) when they witness their fellow getting killed.
DMC 3 and 4 will award you more Red Orbs (3) or Proud Souls (4) at the end mission rating the better your ranking is. DMC 3 in particular explicitly tells you the orb bonus from rank, and has strict Style Meter and end mission rating system, requiring a lot of skill from the player to get those S or SS final mision ratings.
He has gone over the orbs in particular and think the point was that GoW is far more explicit about how bad play is harmful for your progress.
If you are either a speedrunner or appreciate the systems of DMC, you would know a lot of those details but it wouldn't hurt to make things more surface level.
I noticed the Hells backing away in DMC3, but didn't realise it was related to style rank at all. Thanks for that.
Agreed on the need for more explicity. However, playing DMC 3 (and base 4) it is much more apparent than in DMC 5. 5 gives you red orbs like candy even while playing badly, not to mention orb farming with the hat. DMC 3 and base 4 have much slower progression in unlocking new moves. Currency is more scarse, so doing good and getting high ranks will noticeably speed up skill aquisition.
Oh, I forgot about combat adjudicators in 3 and 4. Why did Capcom remove them from 5? That is such a good mechanic to teach you getting to higer ranks.
@@wodzu_9319 My guess, the inflation of red orbs was just Itsuno's middle finger to Capcom's microtransaction attempt.
@@wodzu_9319 Adjudicators were such a great inclusion in 3 with them testing your knowledge with single weapons. 4 was a cool progression since you could use anything and even juggle it...
Both of them were like Trials for Street Fighter (which is also in the POC mobile DMC game) but freestyle.
For some reason, the closest thing to it in 5 are the big orb container which drop Red Orbs which are present in earlier games...
I wonder if it is the result of testers not liking them or more likely the story is Nero can't get Purple Orbs at all and doing those Adjudicators with multiple possible characters (V in particular) would be annoying to design or balance.
They would still be able to do Blue Orbs, but Capcom are trying to sell them for real money.
Your right man, I wonder why he doesn't mention these... especially when the Ranking happens everytime a mission ends
Honestly, I feel that Bayonetta is at its strongest in Non-Stop Infinite Climax mode. You ditch Witch Time altogether (Time Bracelet let's you decide when to use Witch Time, allowing for cool combos) and the game plays much closer to a DMD playthrough, and sometimes kind of like Ninja Gaiden. You take advantage of Dodge Offset and dance around the enemy's attacks as you hit and run, then landing Wicked Weaves to get the upper hand in a situation. Add in things like missiles stunning and blowing things up, or using the whip to throw around smaller enemies, or even yank enemies closer like Nero for combos, and the game is SO damn fun. I've put well over 300 hours into this game since it came out, and I do the secret chapter maybe once every other week for fun.
It's ok that if you die, you recover with full health. The thing is, you've already been penalized for the death: you get less rewards now that you have died.
>doesn’t mention wicked weaves once
>says the game is built around witch time when it’s disabled on NSIC
>glosses over dodge offset
>fails to mention the insanity of enemies like grace and glory
>doesn’t talk about the “player accountability” of the magic meter
This video was a mistake.
Bayonetta is not a defense oriented game. This is the criticism I see most from people who don't understand how the mechanics work together especially when they compare it to DMC or GoW or even NG. I think it's better to say that in Bayonetta offense and defense are one but not in the sense of how in other games a good offense is a good defense because dead enemies can't hurt you. In Bayonetta your wicked weaves are combo enders and do the bulk of your damage but take long to come out so you need to dodge offset if an enemy is about to hit you. And with panther offset you can zip around the arena throwing out instant wicked weaves if your fingers are fast enough. Bayonetta's mechanics let you play as offensive as you want and you're never punished for it because defense is never taken away from you like not being able to block in the air, or having to commit to long wind ups and recovery animations. The game does make you think that you should dodge and punish because of witch time but it's just there to supplement your already good offensive capabilities. NSIC shows that it's not even necessary.
What i like bayonetta is that it has much more interesting level designs compared to dmc. It has a lot of secret encounters and theres a bit of exploration considering its a combo centric game.
Also, the highest difficulty doesnt have witch time. It really bumps up the difficulty. You'll have to master dodge offset to keep your combos going.
DMC used to have some interesting environments with hidden extras, even if it didn't bank on it as much as Bayo.
@@thelastgogeta true, stage design in 1 and 3 were pretty good. 4 was way too repetitive and 5 was all just arena fights. Although i do get the highlight of dmc are the complex combos. I still wish it had more interesting environments.
@@VergilMustDie666 DMC4 was repetitive, but had a chance of repeating some good stuff... Not the dice.
The platforming in DMC peaked with Nero in 4, if I wish we would get more of it... Mods should have movement challenges for the characters.
@@VergilMustDie666 Funnily enough, i actually had a much better time with dmc 5 than with dmc 3 BECAUSE of the level design, i absolutely hated the fact that you could get lost and go back to previous locations of the tower FOR LITERALLY NO REASON, sure, having secrets might be fun, but i'm in here for the combat, and that's why i preferred dmc 5, it's a linear game where you go from one location to the next, fight stuff, and go in the straight line again, no pointless bullshit.
The one thing that might've also made me dislike dmc 3's level design is the time mechanic, what's that? there's a timer at the scoreboard that let's me see if i get a good score depending on how fast i complete the level? damn, guess i can't go exploring much now or even try to look at the enviroment because there's a timer at the end that tells me if i don't go fast i suck, i really hated that, and i think it's great that they removed that thing in 5 entirely.
Now I really want to hear your thoughts on God Hand.
It does have the problem of locking the hardest difficulty, *but* normal already expects you to master the basic gameplay loop and hard is just absolutely mental.
A very fair assessment of a game pretty outside your wheelhouse, and a lot of the complaints (while I really disagree) are backed up by either not being your kinda thing or being solved by a time investment and learning the mechanics.
But c'mon man, this soundtrack is FULL of absolute bangers.
Also, as a note, DMC's style system literally offers the same rewards and risks as God of War's. I'd call the system far better in fact, because it encourages variety above all else, whereas GoW simply demands a higher number of hits.
Either way, good vid. Cheers for giving one of my faves a try.
I'd say the problem for mayo was that dmc5 makes higher ranks like S easier to get so more red orbs without playing that good or being challenged. I'm full on with him that if dmc5 allowed players to instantly choose hard, he wouldn't have such a bad first impression. I know i didn't cuz my first game in the series was dmc3, and that game on normal kicks players assess lol
The first time i played this game i got stone awards in most of the missions even on easy. But when i got the hang of the mechanics and get Platinum trophies on harder modes, i could say that this is the most exhilarating experience ever in my gaming life. It is so good i don't wanna uninstall it in my pc.
Yeah
Ye-f*cking-ah. This game is my favorite. So good.
May i recommend Metal Gear Rising? It's by the same studio, I know you're definitely gonna have mixed views (and it is pretty defense heavy) but I'd love to hear your take on it. It's pretty short and sweet and the music is something thats stuck with me for years.
Sounds like the parry mechanic will be an obstacle to any enjoyment of the game. I never had much of a problem with it, but I know to plenty of players it's very finnicky.
@Brupcat oh ok. It's been ages since I've played it so I might have to revisit it to see if our holds up.
A good fixed camera angle action game for you to try Mayo is Wonderful 101 by the same director as Bayonetta and DMC1. Full disclosure, it’s got a lot more arcade sections, and locked difficulties, but the combat is incredibly deep and it’s not as reaction based as Bayo.
Don’t wanna be that guy but you were wrong about the dmc5 style meter. Yes, it doesn’t have a huge effect on gameplay but getting better rankings increases the amount of orbs you get at the end of a level.
doesn'tmatter because you already get a ton of them on the first playthrough
@@igracsimon6980 And aside from 5, it's a mechanic that works in the others as well.
It also has a somewhat big effect on gameplay if you consider Quadruple S, which is a mechanic for Dante that lets you use Sin Devil Trigger for about 5 seconds without having to spend any of your SDT gauge, when you reach SSS rank in battle.
@@bucket9486 surprised that's never mentioned, as for the style meter Mayo's issue is he wants the game to punish you for losing style not your own pride which for me is more painful, why would I let the game tell me how to feel but when I think about the other people playing this game my mind thinks, "man I wanna be that cool too"
More Red orbs, different taunts, dynamic music, Quad S, style points, punchline skateboard timer etc... Style gauge actually affects a lot of things in DMC5
Doesn't like defensive style games. Welp, there goes Dark Souls.
He did Dark Souls. Not his speed at all.
It's certainly a game where you have to balance between defense and offense. Attacking too much can end up with you getting hit, whereas dodging or blocking too much will leave you with no stamina to attack. It's nice that a parry system is there, but it's not the type of system I like. I prefer being able to press the button to parry an enemy the moment before it hits you. But in dark souls, the parry window opens up a bit after you press L2, which means you would have to learn the timing for when the parry window opens, and the time an attack would hit you. Learning both of those is definitely harder than just having a parry window open the moment you press the button. In jedi fallen order for example, the parry window opens immediately after pressing it, which makes it easier, but the window of time is shorter than in souls games, on the hardest difficulty. Only accounting for the timing of an enemy attack is much easier. So I never parry in dark souls 3, even though I did deathless runs many times.
I don’t know. Dark Souls 3 at least is fairly aggressive. In fact, I think shields are actually disincentivized since even with a stable shield, it costs much more stamina to block compared to the previous games and attacking costs quite a bit less. Also your roll speed is just about unaffected anywhere below 70% armor so you’re weaving and dodging like nobody’s business even with heavy armour and ginormous weapons. It’s actually kind of ridiculous how effective that kind of a build is in PvE because of that o_O (I love it though, it’s my favourite build probably)
I've tried both Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne for a small amount of time each and I still can't tell if I like Souls combat. I think my ideal combat lets you move and attack independently (like Doom Eternal *cough cough*) but I LOVE the idea of Souls combat a lot too, plus I always play laggy heavies in fighting games. I think my issue is I want to be able to move/attack freely when fighting multiple enemies. Then again, that's probably the challenge of Souls games isn't it?
@@miy1925hassun I think shields are great if you are using something at least as light as a longsword. I have a build that uses the millwood axe, and it shreds. With that axe, and a cathedral knight greatshield, I am able to block through the entirety of pontiff sulyvahn's attack pattern, and still have plenty of stamina left to attack him. In fact, pontiff is really easy with my build. I also got the shield and axe to at least +6. So having a greatshield and any good physical weapon with strength is excellent for pve.
For Bayonetta there is a button combo after your first play through on the cutscenes that lets you perma skip them
I'm not sure why you still prop up GoW combo counter as an example of good design and lambast DMC's style meter as superficial when they're both essentially the same thing. They're both their to indicate how well you're doing and reward you with more of the game's currency to obtain more moves, and they both can be ignored if mashing your way to the end is all your concerned about. I'd say DMC's style meter gives a more clear indication of playing well since you can't get and stay at a high rating through repetitive moveset and GoW's counter gives you no frame of reference to how high is high in terms of the hit counter.
DMC5 breaks an action game rule, the ability to dodge in any direction, no matter which way the character is facing.
@@MedIevalCyrax I'm not sure why you think that's a rule or why you think that has anything to do with what I wrote.
@@Aladelicous It makes GOW the superior action game.
That one flaw in DMC5 ruins the mobility.
Darksiders 1-3 doesn't have that issue, neither do the Ninja Gaiden games, ni-oh or Dark Souls.
That is a game mechanic flaw for DMC5 and it kills momentum.
@@MedIevalCyrax the original creator of God of War even commented that DMCs combat was better than GOW, so no. And you still haven't explained what any of that has to do with my original comment.
@@Aladelicous yeah? I guess if Itagaki says Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is better than Ninja Gaiden 2 then it must be true.
i'm curious to see u playing Metal Gear Rising...
Too slow for him
@@ashenlonel6923 WUT
Everything is the same color palette. Too much grey and black. Parry based game can screw him up.
@@carltasticdrew9633 - I can understand the color to be honest, even if I kind of like it. It's a shame though, it's really good how the parry can incentivise both defensive and offensive playstyles just by precise timing. Only thing that really suck apart from the camera (pretty normal for Platinum) is that there isn't some kind of quick weapon swap.
@@wing_ston_902 well hes wrong somehow
The game's combat isn't button mashy, you're just mashing buttons.
If you hold every attack, which makes Bayo keep her pose and rapid fire her guns, you do WAY more damage.
This also make dodging enemies a dozen times easier because you're not focussing on mashing buttons and then suddenly dodging.
Dodge Offset is one side of the same coin. If you don't make sure you hod every pose on every button press,
dodge offset will be harder to pull off and is also generally useless because you're not even doing the damage you're supposed to be doing in your combo.
Also the cutscenes are a non-issue because holding select and RB or RT automatically skips cutscenes.
If it doesn't, you know there will be a cutscene QTE.
Some of the accessories in the store are extremely useful. The moon of Akhala lets yo push the stick in the direction of an enemy attack to parry them and get tons of magic.
It's literally better than witch time in every way. In fact you can still use it in the hardest difficulty, which turns witch time off.
Another thing you can use in the harrdest difficulty is an accessory that launches bombs when you dodge enemy attacks, which makes dodging more offensive.
I was on your stream the other day recommending The Wonderful 101.
It's a game made by the same person but with a much more colorful artstyle, enemies that stick out more, a static isometric camera and a different spin on the reaction based mechanics in Bayonetta.
It also has dodge offset and tons of abilities from Bayonetta and DMC that you can literally just buy from the store and use as accessories.
Wonderful 101 DOES have those odd minigame sections but they're not as bad as Bayo... but they get there.
I think he already adressed this in a video the same way but i might give my 2 cents on this. If the game let's me play button mashing and doesn't punish me for doing so, Is it my fault? And i get it, on hard the game starts punishing me for not playing correctly, so why locking the difficulty after playing the one that doesn't punish sloppy gameplay? That's mostly the why he complained about the mashing part and just getting how the game is supposed to be played after getting to play on hard. Btw, i agree wonderful 101 is also awesome. Kamiya makes some banges
Shinki Mikami's God Hand for the PS2 would make for an interesting video.
this game is awesome, truly a gem
I really enjoyed this game. I've finished it at least 5 times. It is crude and fun!
12 times asking mayo to talk about Serious Sam
@@henryk9422 even as a huge fan of serious sam I dont see any universe where he'd like it tbh
@@henryk9422 thats exactly why, im assuming he'd think it's way too repetitive and "mindless"
@@henryk9422 not saying it isn't fun for me, Im just saying I dont think HE would find it fun
@@henryk9422 worth it for him to try? I mean sure Id watch a video of his thoughts on serious sam
@@smugplush you will die if you try that on higher difficulties
It's kinda cool that a prototype for Resident Evil 4 accidentally created a whole genre back in the day. I tried Bayonetta when it came out. Not for me.
Fair review. One thing I disagree with is maybe you saying that the game is designed around Witch time. That's sort of true, but the deeper you get you find out that the game is actually entirely designed around Dodge offset, not Witch Time. In fact, the difficulty that unlocks after Hard removes Witch Time from the game. Once you learn Dodge offset to the point you're just constantly doing it instinctively, the combat really becomes a kind of free-flowing dance that fits Bayonetta so well.
Yeah, I was laughing at how he was describing Bayo 2 more accurately with that point even if by accident.
Witch Time looks integral on face value and it is really well balanced, but not essential to being an effective player at the highest level.
This is especially true playing as Jeanne who can’t activate witch time through dodges
@@andrewrogers3067 She can, you just need to do perfect dodge, by evading in exact moment you've being hit (When she turn's into moth), it is purchasable move for Bayonetta. IIRC it's actually in the description of the character that it needs more presicion to activate Witch Time with her.
Style system is and always will be an essential part of DMC-esque games. I bet you'd feel real good after seeing that D rank on your screen.
long story short, not every game will push you into its fun zone like doom eternal does, those games will have other mechanisms instead, like style meter.
So the style meter massively counts in the gameplay, it is after all what makes it different from just another hack n slasher. The whole point is being stylish in combat, not efficient.
It's interesting, Doom Eternal pushes you into playing stylishly too by just having such a fine-tuned survival system. It plays like it has a style meter. Being efficient with your weapons and ammo makes you look stylish. I think games should strive to do both more often.
Doom 2016 had the problem of efficiency alone resulting in simple strategies, which the devs realized and is why they made Eternal's resource management more strict. That restriction made way more players have to be way more stylish to survive. People act like style and surival are mutually exclusice, but I think they're intrinsically linked.
Anyway just my thoughts. Have a good one.
@@RacingSnails64
Problem with Doom eternal pushing you to play a certain way in it's mechanics is that it strips freedom. Where as games like DMC and Bayo give you almost complete freedom to style how you want.
DE is tons of fun and great rush to play on the highest difficulties, but it loses some of that aspect of self expression that DMC has.
Mayo likes to have a coloring book in front of him which he can color how he likes and enjoys the beautiful picture once it's finished. But when he's given an empty canvas he turns into a dollar store Jackson Pollock and hates the end result because the empty canvas isn't telling him what to do.
The whole "Locked Difficulties" thing just doesn't make sense to me.
Especially in an action game.
fr it's like it tries to see if you're worthy of the difficulty
@@underthemayo I think Bayonetta and maybe some other PlatinumGames both have an excuse due to how mechanics might change completely by the end, but they also have cheats to unlock select content which are usually performed with in-game currency.
Perhaps the idea is that besides the later difficulties being unsuitable for new players is that it would hurt the value assessment from people if they didn't need to go through at least one difficulty.
Personally, I haven't had an incentive to play on lower difficulties after playing on hard unless I want to get Pure Platinum on all difficulties for an unlockable or something.
@@randomguy6094 Does it really acomplish that? I don't think so because they're letting you fall into a lot of habits (like mashing buttons as if you were brain dead) that are caused due to the lowered difficulty, that can also not be transferred into the hard difficulty because of... well, the harder level of difficulty. Wouldn't it be 10 times simpler if you were playing on the hard difficulty in the first place? (especially if you find no joy in the easy type of gameplay.
@@vargamarioalexan9853 I don't think necessarily so no. Even on the normal difficulty it can be brutal and very punishing if you're not using the mechanics. Hell even on my normal first playthrough of Bayonetta I would consistently have about four deaths through the first playthrough and get participation trophies. That was more than enough info for me to learn I was not playing the game to its optimal performance. And your first playthrough should not be on hard let's be honest especially for platinum games which are notorious for being difficult
I got completely ofended when he said he didnt liked the music lmao. its ok tho
but aside from that, i feel he kinda contradicts himself sometimes, like the way he dislikes having to go through a normal run before getting into the higher levels, but then disliking the higher levels bc they demand good reflexes, in the same way he praises GoW to force you to learn basic combos before unlocking new ones, and dislikes bayonettas instant pool of combos bc the game doesn't pushes him to learn the mechanics in certain way, this after saying he doesnt enjoy a game that wont give you a challenge immediatly if you want. So sometimes he likes this freedom of taking a challenge, but also likes the game schooling your way through.
I do think it's personal taste at the end, in my opinion the hard dodging on higher levels equals lots of action for me bc my brain has to be very active hearing and seeing every attack cue to prepare a dodge. Also this combines very well with the combo pool since you can pretty much always shape your gameplay in every way you want
I feel like the one thing I find so weird about you is your reverence for the old God of War games. They're good games don't get me wrong, but almost everyone else who likes "character action" games considers them shallow and easy.
I'm actually finally playing God of War 3 now (I didn't have a PS3 and I put off the PS4 remaster for years clearly), and with Mayo's voice echoing in my head, I'm doing my first playthrough on hard. Particularly relevant to this video is that I find hard in GoW3 to be much much easier and much much much mashier than my first play through of Bayonetta on normal. Most of the difficulty in GoW3 comes from spongy enemies that just take a hilariously long time to kill, in contrast to even DMC5 which I agree was too easy on norma but at least the enemies challenged me in ways that weren't simply "takes a long time to kill so don't fuck up!"
Edit: I do just want to be clear that I *really like* the classic God of War games. Just moreso for the spectacle, the puzzles, and the overall "feel" of the combat moreso than the depth or challenge
Yeah, as someone with triple digit hours in games like DMC and Bayo and the like, GoW is a complete cakewalk. The series' reliance on spectacle over substance always irked me, and I never found the series as satisfying as its japanese counterparts. A lot of the latter games were also a lot more visually easy to follow as well, IMO. At least Bayo for example really clearly indicates when certain enemies are attacking, both audibly and visually, and even makes every tell distinct for each enemy
One thing Mayo keeps on forgetting that the very inspiration for GOW was DMC and it's DMD mode is also copied in GOW 2018, wherein if you don't kill the enemies quick enough, they get bugged and gain a level, these things that GOW is doing in 2018, DMC did all the way back, MAYO needs to put some serious respect on Hideki Kamiya's name!!!
Summary: Can't dodge cutscenes.
Dude! You definitely should try Doom Eternal next! 🙃
I’m sure he already played it lol
Nah he hates it. I just have a feeling you know.
@@fragrantrice xD
12:24 hey, don't ya diss Bayonetta's Space Harrier section (yes, that sequence is a homage to Space Harrier arcade game by SEGA) I love that shit!
I was about to say dodge offset but it seems like you find that reaction time hard to master itself. It's unfortunate cause that's the most important and fun mechanic for me- mastering it makes even hard mode very easy.
I was also bad at beginning but there are trials to earn heart pieces and other stuff- these trials are very hard and attempting them will absolutely train you in the dodge feature.
I agree I was bored in some missions and those mini games, also I was not a fan of the aesthetics. I liked some of the music but nothing that memorable except maybe 1 or 2 tracks.
But still good review, my favourite hack n slash game is DMC3 which has amazing music too and I think that it better.
Metal Gear rising is also reallly good, you might cover that game someday.
Still Bayonetta is one of my fav big booba milf character and just because of that I give it a 10/10
It's not so much about how hard it is. It's that it's so constant. And I'm all for mastering the deep mechanics. But that's not something I'm gonna do for a game I'm not that crazy about.
@@underthemayo Yea no I get it. I'm not that crazy for this game either XD. I don't think I spend much time in any game- just finish it 1-2 times and I'm done with it. Ive heard bayonetta 2 is an improvement over this in every way but it's not on pc so I haven't played that yet.
@@lalitendudas9401 Bayo 2 is only an improvement if you want Angel Attack gone and insta-death QTEs as well to leave.
The game is actually infamous for being better for single playthrough folks, but worse for speedrunners or technical players.
I can detail how it is more mashy, less punishing meter wise or even direct you to podcasts on the topic but hopefully you get the idea.
@@thelastgogeta no more insta death qte and good for single playthroughs? That's sounds like a game for me! Although I don't remember what was angel attack again? Was that something related to the wicked weaves?
But anyhow I'd certainly like to play it if it comes to pc cause I really don't have any other console. Emulator is an option too but I play with keyboard mouse so idk if it'd work out at all..
@@lalitendudas9401 uhhh... Wiiu emulator has existed on pc for years... You haven't played it because you'd slacking, loll
Bayonetta is the game for the real videogame masters and the gaming masters.
No one asked you ANYTHING.
Here we go again.
@@underthemayo OH YEAH?! WELL WHO ASKED FOR YOUR RESPONSE?!
I don't know what this is all about it but I love it.
@@underthemayowhoever asked you to play this game is just as dumb as you are for not liking it ❤
I'm curios about your opinion on Metal Gear Rising
I think mayo would find the game boring. Because I beat it on revengeance using only light attacks
It was somewhat enjoyable but honestly I think the combat system is definitely not on the same level as the other games he mentions (NG, GOW, DMC and bayonetta)
I think he wont like it because it is heavily dependent on parries
I enjoy it especially for the boss battles and...well.....Armstrong is GOAT
He has replayed and said he didn't like it at all. (in a stream last year.)
Tbh along with the option to choose any difficulty from the beginning I also prefer when games let you change the difficulty any time in the playthrough on the fly from the menu. It really helps imo. I always like challenge so I mostly pick hard on most combat focused games. But sometimes if I find myself in a very difficult part of the game I like to lower the difficulty thinking that I have to ease myself up and maybe learn more about the game.
In Bayo's case, upping the difficulty changes what enemies spawn and their attack speed, so I'm guessing that'd be difficult to implement lol
Now we need more people to tell him to play CrossCode!
CrossCode? I brought an interesting looking 2D pixel rpg with female protagonist. Are you talking about the same game? I haven't started it tho.
Bro that game is awesome
Aaaaaaaah I love this game so muuuuuuuch!!!!!!!!!!
But I don’t think he’d like it
@Lalitendu Das PLAY IT
@@spaceysteam5206 Why not? it has awesome combat!
It’s definitely a “get good” game. If you’re not good you won’t reach the “ badass untouchable witch eviscerating angels in the most stylish way possible” fluid fast paced gameplay. I personally have over 300 hours on this game and over 400 on Bayonetta 2 because I love the exhilaration and over the top battles and music, i think everyone should try it out at least once having some knowledge beforehand of dodge offset.
There's a Transformers game created by the same people as Bayonetta, with overall the same gameplay, with more colourful visuals
Bayonetta is better.
@@scottroxford5715 DONT YOU DARE DISS ON TRANSFORMERS DEVASTATION NOW!!!
@@gojizard704 Nah that game is shit.
@@scottroxford5715 name one thing about it thats shit
@@gojizard704 You have to end every combo with a transformation move and the game is literally just a Bayonetta clone.
Very good point about enemy design colors. They can help to signify what makes each enemy unique, as different enemies tend to have different attack patterns to react to.
Being fair, enemies have different silhouettes, unique big weapons, distinct sound cues and also have colour coding for larger threats.
Some of the colour gets lost with the bloody screen which I don't like or if an enemy gets beaten up as their injuries show up on their mode, but that's a clear sign that they can be killed fast or if they will change behaviour due to being damaged.
Having enemies be distinctly different from one another is vital for these games.
"I'm also slow in my reaction time"
- say the guy who created Brawler mode in Doom Eternal
Hes a contradictrious moron but his doom videos are ok
@@gojizard704 I mean Doom requires good reaction time but tbh Bayo is even faster lol.
@@wing_ston_902 dont get me started on his new resident evil videos and alien isloation
@@wing_ston_902 he doesnt like the re3 remake and re8 so now hes constantly saying capcom sucks because of it
@@wing_ston_902 i respect his doom videos but his othwr videos suck
It’s so funny - you explained in reverse why I love Bayonetta I & II with all my heart, but don’t love God of War and DMC. I love reacting, parrying and being rewarded for my ability to quickly understand an attack is coming and set myself up for success, and I have a much harder time being on the offensive al the time because my brain is always in defense mode.
I pretty much stay on Royal Guard in DMC. I’m actually gonna take what you said here and give GOW another chance.
1 thing ill correct you on. Style meter does count it raises your devil trigger faster and also allows you to enter and exit sin devil trigger at SSS rank.
Also great video!
Now it's vanquish time, make it the next game
Mayo: Doesn’t like games with quick reaction parrying and dodging
Me: So much for a Mayo playthrough of Nioh
Man Nioh is the tits. That combat blows other soulslike games out of the water. Stance-switching is one of the most satisfying mechanics ever.
"I'm not gonna finish my hard mode run" idk what to say. You put up with Give Me God of War lack of player respect but having to be active while comboing is too much? Idk Mayo that's just a weird criticism for me. Even GoW as plenty of moments where you're forced into stick and poke offense (GOW 1 lvl 1 in particular tbf it is lvl 1 run tho) Like I get it no wants to fight with seemingly neutered and passive offense. But in Bayo 1theres only really like 2 enemies that force you to stick and poke. ( In Bayo 2 I would actually be more inclined to agree with you as dodge offset becomes borderline necessary even at lower difficulties for some bosses [there are ways to cheese tho]) Especially if we take dodge offset into application then I'd argue the opposite. It becomes a punch and weave(as in boxing slip). Like you are slipping counters to set up your own inside the enemies pocket. Which is very different from stick and poke. And lends itself well to the dodge offset mechanic.
You mentioned not really fucking with Royal Guard which I find downright shameful tbh. (Yes a bit of an elitist thought admittedly) but the style shows off a lot of the genius behind the enemy design and how it pushes you into changing it up. I used to exclusively rely on trickster for easy s, projectile ignoring, and easy extensions. But locking yourself down to just the raw weapon moves really brings out the tiny details.
Is Bayo big on Dodging? For sure. Do I think it's necessarily detrimental, no. Considering there are items to help you completely negate dodging. You can beat all but infinite not even really dodge offsetting. Just have setup your weaves from further back. And tbh I think infinite is doable without dodge offset. (To you bayo fans I'm saying without items.) Now if we include items, dodge offset and the constant stick and poke pressure isn't even required. (Some bosses might challenge this but they are bosses) Granted you are still forced to react quickly but I dont see how a game demanding defensive reaction is much different from demanding offensive reaction. Especially when in this game the dodge turns the tables. It literally flips you from defense to offense.
Idk man been pouring time into both Bayo 1 and 2 lately. So just had some thoughts. appreciate the video Mayo
Would love to see you try The Wonderful 101. It's a platinum game that I feel gets nowhere near the amount of attention it deserves.
It's got the Majora's Mask effect now, where a game is so underrated that its cult following props it up so much that it becomes commonly known as an "underrated game" and paradoxically becomes overrated.
Still good tho
@@johnnyguitar8067 Hm, i don't see that. I doesn't mentioned that often, outside of people following mattewmathosis. There's very few reviews for the game on both metacritic and steam which means low popularity, and no news on game sales which mean's it sold poorly, and original didnt sell well even by niche games standarts. Looks like to me that it do not even reach a niche within "niche" audience with new ports.
sekiro, although based on a lot of parrying, has really forgiving timings and has its defense mechanism tied perfectly into offense. that means that a parry is often more of an offensive move than an attack. when you get into the rhythm, the fun zone really starts
Sekiro is really refined and polished to the extreme with its combat as well.
I love this game so much but yeah that missile game is like putting your camera in a blender.
My mistake was playing Bayonetta with a keyboard and mouse. The boss fight with the sea angel thing made me nearly break my keyboard from mashing QTE's so hard, and I was gasping for air by the end of it from the absolutely relentless arm/hand workout. I did beat it though, albeit absolutely drenched in sweat lmao
Even hugo martin tried out ultrakill so yeah here you go thats what next
4:34 Ironically (though I'm not sure if you played as him) Vergil ,in his DLC, doesn't have this problem since his playstyle is based on a concentration meter.
When you do damage, the meter goes up (with a max of 3 levels I think). Eqch level increases the range and/or damage of his attacks , as well as allowing him to perform potentially screen clearing super moves
However, if you get hit or miss an enemy or run, the meter will fall drastically and minimize your efficiency
Ironically, tho, Vergil's problem is that he's the franchise's unnoficial "Very Easy" mode XD
I’m interested in what Mayo would think of Nioh or Nioh 2 after this video. If he’s a big fan of Ninja Gaiden he’s definitely going to enjoy them!
I got stuck at a boss fight in the sequel because of poor reaction time, yeah, this series is basically Doom but every enemy is a marauder and you get no Healthpacks
i personally feel that mayo should play god hand on the ps2
pcsx2 is very good for emulation and works like a charm
The worst God damn camera and started a trend with action games having that complete shit for a camera angle
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 I dont really get that complaint. I mean yeah its up your ass but you have a minimap, multiple ways to dodge and at the very least it's always consistent.
Hey, loved your review and your honesty. Even as someone who loves Bayonetta, I think all your points are pretty valid (except for the soundtrack which I think is amazing).
But I would say there's a much easier way to tell when the enemy is about to attack. Rather than looking for the white flash, pay attention to the sounds they make (usually a grunt and a reaching cymbal). They do a sound tell before the visual tell, and also we humans react faster to sound than visuals (this is often discussed in the Fighting Games community). Telling yourself to dodge just one time instead of a lot helps you be prepared. I suggest you give the game just a last chance to see if you like it more going in knowing this.
Also you mentioned you don't like parrying, but there's a bracelet called Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa that let's you parry by pushing in the direction of the enemy attack right before it hits you, and it offers the same benefits of perfect dodging. It definitely fits a more aggressive style. And finally, Bayonetta 2 addresses a lot of your complaints, so maybe you'll like it more.
It seems you didn't unlock "Bat Within".............
It is in Rodin's store.
This is one of the most important things to buy.. specially in hard mode. I don't understand why you went to hard mode if you don't know how to play and use all Bayonetta's abilities.
Another thing, I enjoyed so much the mini-game in the end of every level, I liked it so much. So not agree. Shame they removed it from Bayonetta 2.
And I also loved the bike level, this game was a giver.
Since you mentioned it, I would actually love to hear your full thoughts on DMC5. I recently played through it twice. I'm not a fan of hack n slash games, but DMC5 was an absolute joy for me. Especially the music. And because Vergil is the antithesis of the "final boss when you unlock them" meme. He's an absolute unit to play as.
Edit: Also. Bloodborne. I can honestly recommend that one to you after hearing your thoughts on Bayonetta's combat. It's health system is extremely fun as it encourages you to keep offensive pressure even if you get the crap smacked out of you.
Out of interest, have you tried Metal Gear Rising? I feel like the way the game handles blocking with attacking into an enemy's attack would gel with your offense focused play.
Mashing the analog stick in the direction you're being attacked isn't blocking... Loll
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 yeah it is when that's the input for blocking
@@distantsea there's no blocking in rising. Only dodge and parry... So still no
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 ok buddy are we really arguing semantics right now
I remember my friend told me to try this game and I thought it was just a button masher. In a way it is, but it’s so fun when you get good at it, cause it makes me feel super hyper aware to land the perfect juicy dodge
Hey Mayo, I recommend you give Hollow Knight a try if you haven’t already. It scratched the hard-to-reach itch many games failed to after I played Doom Eternal.
One of the arkham games?
One of my favorite franchises due to many reasons. One of those reasons of course is the gameplay, one of the two main chunks of which being between beat-em-up combat that I’d personally say is in between GOW and Bayonetta in terms of offense and defense.
The other half is stealth that relies on positioning yourself and the enemies to perform takedowns, which now that I think of it idk if you’ve ever covered a stealth game, may be wrong on that.
I’ll finish with saying that the combat does reward you XP to use for upgrades via good combo length and variety, while the stealth, at least to my memory, does do the same but not to the same extent that I personally wish it did
Sorry for my essay and I hope you’ll check it out!
Here i am.
I am here to toss Vanquish into the suggestion box again.
while I think Bayonetta is cool, I prefer DMC much more greatly simply because of how combos work in that game. With Dante specifically. You are able to wheave a lot of seperate moves into each other whereas Bayo is moreso premade strings which you then execute.
And funnily enough Dodge Offset contributes to that "problem" even more greatly. Once you learn it, you often go through that game without even thinking about your attacks. You just mash out your combos. Dodge when you need to. Continue the combo. All you pretty much do is much to reach the next random wicked wheave. There is fun to the flow that it has, but idk. I much prefer how Dante encourages me to use my brain because I gotta work harder to actually get some fun combos going
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME MAYO HAS SAID A GANE IS TOO HARD. OH I FORGOT
"YOU JUST WANT THIS GAME TO BE DOOM ETERNAL!".
So I just played through ultra violence doom 2016 and eternal and I have no idea why you hold that on the pinnacle of difficulty because they felt very newcomer friendly
The game doesnt have to be mashy and I’m not the type of person to say this but get good. The combos aren’t limited to mash punch like you been demonstrating thoughout the entire video. From what I can see you have short attention span and no desire to actually learn complex techniques. Also kind of confused when you say you wanted a hard mode? When you said yourself you haven’t finished your hard play though. Also yeah everyone dislikes the route 666 and rocket part but they are references to sega’s earlier games that over stayed it’s welcome. You can skip angel attavk mini game you aren’t forced to play that.
While I personally feel that just normal mode unlocked is not enough in these games it makes a lot of sense for the devs to lock difficulties behind first play through or cheat codes, many people go into higher difficulties wanting a challenge but never having played the game before, in most action games harder difficulties are built off of people’s skill from a first play through, and so can then be built around that instead of a person who’s never spent a second in the game, action games especially with how short they are, make up for that with replayability, and part of that comes from the still unlocking stuff later on, like more difficulties to challenge you even more, it’s a pretty good idea, it could probably be communicated better and I do think maybe giving cheat codes or ways of unlocking them early could be nice, but it’s a good thing to see a higher difficulty not be a starting point, and treated as hard and tough
I loved Bayonetta. I'm disappointed #2 is only available on Nintendo because there are no other games I'd want a Nintendo system for so I'll probably never get to play it.
If it weren't on nintendo it wouldn't be anywhere as the project was already sunk before nintendo put the money yo save the franchise. You can criticize Nintendo all You want, but it majes perfect sense to make it an exclusive if You literally paid for the Game Tom exist
9:18 That is where you went wrong. Most techniques at The Gates of Hell are a must buy. ABK, Air Dodge, Heel Stomp, and Tetsuzanko.
I mentioned that air dodge was crucial. But you can get through most of the game on normal without buying anything.
@@underthemayo That's true. I guess Air Dodge is ingrained into my playstyle so much, I always have a hard time playing without Air Dodge whenever I start another new save file.
@@thedreamdrug495 yeah you're really starving for air dodge at first
I knew I was in for some rookie complaints when you said you love god of war but had problems with dmc5. They're not even in the same realm of gameplay quality.
I know you've been doing it for a while, but I love this viewer-driven content stuff, it works out really well for you whether you enjoy the games or not!
No offense I don't quite understand your problem with block difficulty, especially since you're not very good at reaction time. you would not survive the harder difficulties without good reaction and the upgrades.
Well it's kinda like royal guard in dmc 4 where its like one frame for perfect block and some of the enemy attacks aren't telegraphed well. Frosts for example are notorious in the community for having awkward timings that don't feel consistent.
@@bruhder5854 okay that's fair but it's not like it can't be done you just need to practice.
My issue is that you can't complain about lot difficulty when you haven't mastered the system on a normal difficulty
@@MrDegenerate28 that much is fair I agree with you there. A lot of these types of games in the past weren't refined enough to truly make everything flow perfectly so some stuff always ended up being a major issue for some people.
"I'm not a fan of quick-time defense."
Welp I guess he's not gonna like Metal Gear Rising
Since the release of DOOM Eternal, you have become my favourite yt channel. We share the same views about different games and movies. I've been wondering, have you have tried game series like F.E.A.R., Dark Souls, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., BioShock and Darksiders?
he has mentioned F.E.A.R and BioShock in other videos
Mayo is becoming one of my favorite game youtubers. He has a keen eye for game design and how challenge is implemented in a game.
Loving your videos lately. Also I will add to the Sekiro/Metal Gear Rising recomendation.
I would love to see a video of your opinions on God Hand. My fav PS2 game. Made by then Clover studios. Made up of people that now work at Capcom and Platinum games.
Aye!
I loved Bayonetta - played it through 4 or 5 times, doing all plat on ultra climax. It took me a long, long time, and I had to use some guides for help in the fights. That took more than a few tries. It was just a fun game to get good at. I don't typically like mashy games either, but for me, the way the defensive mechanics tied in make it cool.
I know this is sort of a side point since you only used it for comparison, but I disagree to some extent on rewarding good play for permanent RPG-style upgrades, as in GoW. Or at least, it has to be carefully done. This is a challenge in game design, and there's never a perfect answer for it. It's easy to get in positive/negative feedback loops, where the game is made easier for good players and harder for bad players. There are a few good ways to handle it, IMO, for non-rogue-like games:
1 - Focus on short-term rewards: Bayonetta's magic meter is an example. It's great in a single fight or checkpoint to get rewarded for doing the early parts well. It makes it fun to retry after a death and see improvement even if you don't beat the section. And if you just scrape by, you don't feel frustrated or want to restart manually because the reward isn't big enough.
2 - Make the rewards side-grades: Instead of just providing you with stronger options or ugpraded stats or something, give the player another weapon or combo. Something that increases complexity, but only makes you better if you really have the skill to use it. Another weapon, combo, or small mechanic.
3 - Give players a chance to re-do a bad section: Stage select, checkpoint select, something like that. And not in the sense that you can grind to get more points, but maybe only provide the player with the difference in new vs old rewards. If you got 10k on the 1st playthrough, and 15k on the second, provide the player with 5k or something. Or you have to hit some number to earn a new weapon/mechanic.
Anyway, just my thoughts. Great vid, keep 'em comin!
You make great vids, but for some reason you think it's a fair critique to fully analyze an action game's difficulty after only 1 1/2 playthroughs of a game. You played like a scrub on normal, and used items as well. You then had the audacity to say that the normal difficulty is too easy. You haven't "gotten it" when it comes to playing character action games.
Mayo and some of the people commenting can’t fathom why higher difficulties are locked out at first. They insist that there is no reasonable justification for this when unlocking said difficulties is the reward in the first place. In Bayonetta and DMC’s case, this was never a flaw. You proved that you can beat the game on normal, so here’s hard. Simple.
To be fair, I don’t think these types of games would be worse off if people had the options of higher difficulties to begin with, but this certainly wouldn’t be an improvement. It’s just adding something to another thing that was a non-issue.
@@psnfailout000 Bayo 2 actually took the approach of having the hard difficulty available from the start. The problem with bayo 2 is that the hard difficulty is just bayo 1's normal. I don't think he realizes that becoming fluent with the game's mechanics takes multiple playthroughs.
@@chsi5420 yea and your supposed to use gear and tactics to later on to make
It easier like more damage from this or the parry move u unlock that launches people dodging did feel a bit weird since I went from bayo 2 to one you can’t spam it like u did in 2
@@mrthanos8140 In character action games, most of the tools needed to master the game are available from the start, while certain moves and weapons do help, most of your success in these games is wholly determined by player skill.
You need to unlock Jeanne as the playable character, who has basically no time slowdown after dodge, and the game becomes super offensive.
Honestly you just don't know how to play this game. This game can be very offensive once you master the system. Combat is very deep. It doesn't always have to be for noobs for people to enjoy the game
Metal gear risings parry mechanic is really good innit that you only need to tap the attack button once right before a enemy attacks, you just have to time it right but it works really well once you get the hang of it
I think I got 5 hours into Bayonetta before dropping it. To me it was a decent game brought down by the incredible amount of tiny frustrations it comes attached to, it got so annoying that whatever was fun didn't feel worth the hassle.
You play it on ps3 or 360 though? It was damn near unplayable for me on ps3
Bayo is an amazing game that I just don't like.
You definitely aren’t playing the game right. You can be offensive on higher difficulties, but you have to utilize wicked weave (giant hair fists) I noticed you kept using long combos, which you’re not really supposed to do. Also there’s a parry that has a pretty generous window, so you have defensive options. I will say that if normal mode is supposed to be the “tutorial” it teaches new players bad habits, but let’s not pretend god of war is the standard for action for action games
That's my whole point. The playstyle required by high level difficulty is one that I didn't find personally enjoyable, though I can see how well made it is.
It would be cool if there was something in between normal and hard, that taught better habits but wasnt so reliant on constant defense.
@@underthemayo Another difficulty could be an idea, but it would be better to incorporate a real Dodge Offset teaching tool into the game than add difficulty mode filler.
There are already statues that demand you to dodge and demonstrate Witch Time. Blocks which respond to being hit. Opportunities to jump and panther jump. To fall with the weight of a tall lady. Dodge Offset is much harder to communicate, but if the presentation was more obvious they would have room to gate your progress till you do one offset and maybe two later in the game.
I'm not sure any of the PlatinumGames ever do this unfortunately.
@@underthemayoive mentioned it in my comment above, but you should really be taunting enemies or equipping the gaze of despair from rodins shop. it costs 100000 rings but once equipped, you have more aggressive enemies on whatever difficulty you are on.
@@Thoughtspeakable i appreciate the tips but I'm just not into the game enough overall to want to dive into the specific strategies. I played it a couple times and that was enough for me.
Dante’s Inferno if you haven’t played it yet.
I grew up playing hack n slash’s such as Bayonetta, DMC, God of War and Dante’s inferno. Such a disturbingly beautiful game
If you ever get the chance I recommend Ninja Gaiden 2 on Xbox 360 (not Sigma which is what the remake is using) it's an absolute insane game
I played ng1 sigma back in the day and I loved it. I'm curious to revisit it and see if it holds up.
This is a good suggestion. Ninja Gaiden 2 was amazing.
I think he would enjoy for sure. I don't think he will ever admit it but he may just enjoy being my destroyed in games lol
Very good video. Love how you actually break down the combat and gamplay vs other game reviews. Can you do a god of war ascension or how you play 3 like a doom guy?
Wonderful 101
doom eternal's weapon chess done in its extreme
less quick reaction
right amount of cutscene (i skipped every Bayonetta cutscene after a few chapters)
gow big boy spectacle boss fights
isometric camera
colored enemies
kamiya's shoehorned vehicle minigames is alright this time
Bayonetta doesn't have that much of a defensive combat system, except the parry from Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa.
In fact, Bayo's system focuses on moving to and fro in the field to basically keep attacking while weaving across and through your enemies.
Ah yes...mayo reviews tall mommy video game once again.
Tall dommy mommy
Going to the comment section of doomtubers to remind everyone that QuakeCon 2021 is going to be on August 19-21. Mark your calendars!
What i really like about your reviews is that you always say what you think and won't let people dictate if you like the game or not, you bring something new by challenging established game design and mechanics
"Games focused on parrying system really fuck me up."
What are you?
Sekiro: Death!
Yet the players made him play Sekiro even after knowing that he doesn't like this kind of gameplay.
DMC5 style meter has a whole quadruple S mechanic that's tied to Dante's combat in a VERY SUBSTATIAL way.
It's like, one of his most powerful weapons.
So saying the style meter doesn't affect gameplay is just patently false.
*substantial
Maybe vanquish for the next one? Idk if you'd like it especially from the talking points from this video but its still such a challenging fun game imo.
I would love to hear your thoughts on mirrors edge. It's a pretty good game and I hope you'll like it.