Don’t act like it was just KD hate that fuelled it (deff a factor) but Russ was heroic. For me the nuggets game sealed it, only 8 games worse after KD left, insane work
players with no chips arent meaningful players. hell never be in the hall of fame. stat padders are not impressive players at all and never have been. his triple double season wasnt authentic
@@nomercyinc6783you don’t know basketball if you think he not an instant hofer and it was authentic what he did his roster around him was not very good
@@JoseFranco9 their numbers lead to the 4th seed respectively for both teams. Giannis numbers lead to the Bucks having the best record. Jokic in 2024 had a better record than Luka and the Mavs.
Was at the record breaking Nuggets game and that is 100% the best sporting moment of my life the crowd was so mixed with people cheering due to Russ and the record but also sadness from the Nuggets losing and missing the playoffs
Im a joint OKC and Nuggets fan (family in OKC, live in Denver). And went to that Nuggets OKC game. It was such a great environment and core sports memory of mine.
That '16-'17 season was such a cool experience. I had to tune in each Thunder game just to see if Westbrook's sheer willpower could push the team to another win. I've been so much more invested in the Thunder and the NBA as a whole ever since.
I think there’s no way he wouldn’t have won it. Revolutionary stat line and a narrative that favors him more than anyone else in the league bc of KD hate, but it only took one season for people to realize averaging a triple double didn’t fix Russes terrible efficiency and shooting
Very possibly the best statistical and highlights layer ever, but he was never really a guy who could win as a team player, and he was always worse on defense than he should’ve been.
more like despite adding top 10-15 level talent to the team they didn't win shit, never made it out of the first round. The triple-doubles didn't lead to winning so they don't frankly matter.
Russ will always be one of my fav players. Yeah he has his faults but how many players dont have flaws in their game. His mvp season was just so fun to watch and for him to end the game when he got his 42nd triple double the way he did was just beautiful. I know it wasnt this season and say what u will about the guy, but very very few players could actually get a stat line of 20-20-20 cuz they set their minds to it.
@BenjaSeimei07 Here's the short version: The Suns took advantage of the new rules and used Steve Nash to inflate their numbers, then actual superstars showed up in the playoffs and sent him home every year.
I will always be biased towards peak Russ because he helped get me into basketball. I didn’t grow up a basketball fan but was interested in getting into the sport around this time, and in addition to my hometown Wizards, I really loved Russ. The highlights are incredible, he plays the game on one speed for better and for worse which is so fun to watch, and despite his hustle and activity isn’t a dirty player, which is rarer than it should be. I really enjoyed watching him on the Wizards, even if it was really sad to see Wall go in the trade that got him here. I probably overrate him, but I do think he’s been underrated since leaving the Lakers
People that discredit him by saying that he's stat padding don't understand that even if your goal is to stat pad, it takes a lot of skill to still be able to reach the numbers you want. There are great players that played in the league that were more selfish and don't get criticized like Westbrook does.
Reminds me of Arsenals invincible season People don’t realize how hard it is to average a 30 point triple double but after looking at the fg% and turnovers, it shows why it isn’t considered the greatest season ever
Russ will forever be stuck between overrated to underrated. If you don’t like his play style, then he’s overrated If you like his stats, then he is underrated
It just sucks because had he not had so many glaring flaws, we’re probably talking about the best PG of all time. He was certainly the most athletic PG to ever play the position, and an amazing dunker, a solid ball handler, strong, fast as hell. His problem was his IQ. Had he been a smarter player, he could have gotten rid of a lot of his flaws, especially the turnovers and forced bricks.
He’s good but not among the greatest imo. Every great player can take their team on a playoff run given multiple opportunities. He’s only done that with KD, arguably the best scorer in history and hasn’t come close on his own. I don’t expect a ring or even finals appearance…but if you’re that guy u should be able to carry a team through a couple rounds.
That MVP year I think I went to nine or 10 thunder home games... and I believe we won each of them all were like really close.. I knew I was watching greatness but I didn't know he would be the MVP
This man took a record that most ppl saw as unbreakable (avg triple double for a season) and did it 4 times. I think Westbrook is incredibly underrated and he is one of the best pure basketball players (not saying the best (at all)) of all time. Ppl some now miraculously underestimate averaging a triple double and I find it funny bc ppl say he’s stat padding. If it was so easy then there’s at least 100 selfish players and probably 15 stars who don’t give a damn about winning that would be doing the same thing. He’s underrated and what he’s done has been totally minimized when it should be revered IMO. Luka might end up being the next one to average a triple double he’s been really close and jokic too but neither of them have so we’ll see
I remember this series he was in the perfect shape and form he had his explosiveness at 22 and his strength at 33 combined but in the later years he gained muscle messing with shot and his end to end speed even though he was still fast and i rember how fatigue he was carrying that team for the most part he would do good the first 3 quarters and run out of gas the lads quarter I don’t know why the coach didn’t try to find him minutes to rest
Of course his teammates would shoot bad if between 4 starters & a bench player they only got ELEVEN shots while one person is getting EIGHTEEN & not making many at that. That was a microcosm of that yr. Imo... Great achievement individually but kind of unfair to say he had no help when night in night out they were playing to get him his triple doubles. It was obvious "if I pass you the ball you better shoot & you better make it or give it back" energy
Im not trying to be disrespectful but to many people look fondly on those Triple double seasons like they were impactful at all. His first season maybe considering the historical significance of it but i watched every single okc thunder game those seasons im a kiwi so obviously a huge Steven Adams guy and i would watch Russ literally steal rebounds from his bigs, openly berate both Steven and Serge if they even thought about grabbing a rebound. Im willing to bet that over 60% of his assists were from bail outs after his useless attempts to dribble and penetrate failed. He was a athletic stat padder who played with tremendous energy and heart. But none of his play contributed to any productive or meaningful basketball. When he wasn't been carried by a actual superstar (Kevin in OKC) (Harden in Houston) hes a first round exit or 10th seed.
I was with you until you starting talking about KD. Russ gets scapegoated when KD had a lot of 4th quarter mistakes and both are reason why they choked vs the Warriors in 2016. Also Scott Brooks. Obviously KD is the better player but he never carried Russ either
To me, that season had a lot of diminishing returns, where you can do something a lot of times but the value/lack of value of return you get from it gets lower and lower. Jordan's most successful seasons were when he stopped being the only part of offensive engine. I think the reason why Jokic and LeBron haven't done it is simply because of that factor. To put that much focus on one person to do all of those things takes away from other players. There is an intangible effect that that will have on the team on and off the court. If we really think about it, we didn't really know how much that team could do because of the triple double season. Oladipo and Sabonis became all-stars after they left, Steven Adams helped turn to grizzlies into a fun yet tough team, etc. We don't know what that team would have been if Russ didn't do that. What we do know is how far it took them...
I hate the Internet these days. The fact that they have to blur what they described as the "Stone Cold Steve Austin" is ridiculous. We all know the dudes just flipping the bird. We all have seen it, and it’s really not that gratuitous of a site. Fuck youtube
It’s incredibly ignorant to criticize Westbrook for his triple double stat padding because his winning % with triple doubles was well above 60%, might’ve been 70% at one point. The criticism with Westbrook was always his utter inability to adapt his game situationally. Particularly at the end of 4th quarters where he’d turn into a million dollar athlete with a 10 cent brain. But I honestly can’t stand when people try to “overrate” historical greatness like his season after KD left. There are elite level guys and would-be pros playing in beer leagues all over the world who could never touch that kind of spectacular achievement. Let alone in one of the greatest leagues in the world.
There's a reason that MJ loves Westbrook. Easily a top 15 peak all time. Lacking efficiency is a fair price to pay when you play your entire game as a Super Saiyan. His payoff record shouldn't be held against him considering he had almost no help.
No. I like Russ, but there are many players who had a better peak than him, especially his contemporaries. In Russ's case, lacking efficiency has NEVER been a fair price to pay because it has constantly prevented himself and his team from achieving more. Also, yes, he didn't have much help in 2016-17, but you could also argue that he didn't try to make the most of the help he had. In 2017-18, he had PG and Carmelo. In 2018-19, he had MVP candidate PG and a deeper roster; they lost in the first round both times, and he was still averaging a triple double during those seasons. So, why should he be blameless?
Russ' MVP season really broke the traditional mold of what it took to have a successful campaign. After the 2017 season, the voting patterns really haven't been the same and I think that was proven again last season. I really thought SGA should've won MVP for his historic season leading OKC to being the youngest first seed in NBA history while averaging 30 for the season, but because Jokic's stats were more efficient he still won MVP despite being a 4th seed.
nuggets were the second seed lol and the record for both teams were identical okc just had the tie breaker at that point yeah you go with who had better overall stats which was jokic lol
@@MusicLover-my6fo Lol what NBA were you watching? Denver was the 2nd seed, not the 4th seed. Plus they virtually had the same record. 57 wins for both OKC and Denver. Y'all really just be saying anything on here.
The thing is, any NBA player can average a triple double if they wanted to. But Russ was going for it, although poor efficiency and all that. Thats why he is just properly rated. Not in the higher echelon of the MVPs before and after, just right there in the middle
Look at my name. I miss prime russ he was so fye. And Russ is one of those guys that for sure has been very over and underrated throughout his career. Times when he didnt get the credit he deserved and times when he was just outright selling but i like brodie and fuck it imma still say underrated 😎
As terrific as Russ's MVP season was, I believe that Harden should've won the award. His stats were similar to Russ's except more efficient across the board and he led his team to more wins with an undertalented roster as well. Knowing what I know now about Russ's triple doubles that season, I don't think that it was as impressive as many people think. It was still an all-time great accomplishment, but the way he did it and the impact it had on his team's success kinda undermined it as well.
If the team is 100% built around him and teamates are only allowed to boxout so he can rebound: MVP. If the team is not build around him, like 99.9% of pro basketball players: the front office go out of its way to pay him his full salary not to play and to trade him. There's no grey area in the over or underrated question really
I think it’s obviously a fantastic season, but the fact it’s a conversation is solely due to his inefficiency. I think even at the time everyone knew KD curry lebron and probably harden were better overall players. The triple double average is absolutely historic, but the turnovers and rough shooting nights make this a conversation.
I say it was overrated only bc i remember during that time people was saying russ was better than steph, and in no world has russ ever been better than steph
Luka was like .6 rebound and .2 assist off it this season i don't know about rebounds but assist are going up and he was always good rebounder so he will do it if he wants to
This will sound a bit weird, but to me, MVP Russ is both overrated AND overhated. No, I don't think he should have been MVP that year, I do think Harden should have won it, and I do think he stat-padded a bit & his stats & impact on the Thunder were a bit overrated. But I also do think that Russ gets shit-on way too much & has been hounded for his style of play, but again, comparing him to some of the current day superstars & all, at least this guy cared a lot & would always give you 100% of what he had (even if in a flawed way).
The greatest legacy of Russell Westbrook will be the fact that he made the triple-double, which was always considered an extraordinary feat, irrelevant and plain ordinary.
It was exciting to watch, a lot of hero ball. But his contribution to the team is overrated because his passing and his rebounding skills aren't that great in relative to the high numbers. What I mean by that is that his assists numbers aren't created because of his passing skills, it's because he created a lot of pressure for other team's defense, which allows him to pass to open teammates. And when it comes to his rebounds, you can argue he didn't steal the rebounds, but most of the rebounds he caught weren't contested rebounds. Meaning that even if he wasn't there, other teammates could have grabbed it too.
Clearly overrated to me. However, many agree with me, so idk what the proper word is. I think a better way of framing it that it's one of the lesser MVP seasons.
@@chrisuncleahmad666Uh, OKC was the sixth seed when Russ won his MVP award as well. The supporting cast he had may not have fit his play style, but it wasn't much better than what Jokić had. The difference is that Jokić actually maximized the help he had to the best of his ability; Russ didn't.
Might be a hot take here but I don’t mind the NBA Awards show at all like not even a little bit that’s probably because because I’ve watching football all my life and they have the NFL Honors buuuuuuuuut I still don’t prefer the NBA Awards show over the award presentations at the stadiums just didn’t think it was all that big of deal or terrible idea
On surface, it's underrated. But if u actually watched and dig deep. It's overrated. He won cu, of the narrative, stats and passion. But the way it was done was not pretty at all
I always felt that Russ stat padding for triple doubles was just a way for him to get his excuses in early. Team wins? Of course we won, I got a triple double. Team loses? Don't look at me, I got a triple double. Never mind my horrid efficiency, my historic turnovers, my shameless ball hogging and refusal to play defense, I got a triple double. Stop questioning me, I'm a great player, my stats say so.
@@chrisuncleahmad666 Correlation does not imply causation. Do you have any evidence to suggest triple doubles have some intrinsic value? When Oscar Robertson had his triple double season, he got eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. Every time Russ has averaged a triple double for the season, he gets eliminated in the first round. Perhaps building a team entirely around a single player accumulating stats, is actually bad strategy? Or maybe they don’t mean a damn thing, like any stat taken out of context.
@@nigelee Thats just you hating on Russ. He never threw teammates under the bus and always defended them regardless of their numbers or performance. Every single player from that season has praised Russ as a teammate which you wouldn't do to someone passing the blame of a first round exit off to you. I mean you just correlated Russ' triple doubles with an argument that he wasn't the problem and decided, with zero evidence, that this was the cause of his triple doubles. Hell, all the evidence points to that not being the reason for his triple doubles but you still used it to draw a conclusion. As far as the Thunder having a record of 33-9 when Russ had a triple double, thats actual evidence that the triple double has intrinsic value. Its true that correlation does not equal causation. However, to disprove that the triple double was not the cause of the record, you would need to put forth a counter argument.
@@noconaroubideaux9423 Let's go through this point by point. Where, exactly, did I claim Russ threw teammates under the bus? Don't go putting words in my mouth. I claimed that Russ pads his stats to cover up how poor a player he really is. Don't give me tripe about how popular he is. Don't care, not relevant. Your second paragraph is so poorly written that I'm unsure of what you're trying to say, so I'm just going to have to try and explain myself again. Stats without context - or used out of context - are useless and/or misleading. That's goes double for triple doubles, which have no intrinsic value beyond bragging rights. Getting a triple double does not get you extra points on the scoreboard or extra time on the shot clock. It was supposed to be an indicator of versatility and effort, but Russ has devalued it by deliberately hunting numbers instead of earning them in the flow of the game. There's no need for me to disprove the claim that Russ's triple doubles lead to wins, because I'm not the one making the claim. If you declare that ghosts exist, its up to you provide proof, not for skeptics to prove you wrong. I could just as easily claim that record was due to the Thunder's defense, which was rated 10th best in the league that year, and would have been even better if Russ bothered to play any defense.
Yet another situation where I was called a hater but I was right. Though it was impressive to see Westbrook average a triple double, I said that the Thunder would be better off with an old school floor general pure point guard.... Westbrook left, Paul came in and the result was that the Thunder had a higher win percentage with Paul. He didn't deserve MVP because he didn't actually make his team that much better.
Oh you mean Chris Paul can lead the fucking Thunder team that lost when Westbrook on the bench the team your thinking of with Chris Paul was completely different players
I think it will happen again. Jokic averaged 9.8 assists in 2023, if he truly wanted it and wasn’t focused on the playoffs I think he would have done it. (Fun fact the 2024-25 Denver Nuggets roster is responsible for 10.35% of all triple doubles in NBA history) Wemby the sky is the limit, frankly he might average a triple double with 10 blocks instead of assists! Eventually he will be paired with another star and that’s when I think his assist numbers will explode
@@mekacrab I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t do it for a single game at some stage of his career. 30-10-5-5 feels achievable for a season, if he gets help in the form of a spot up shooter his gravity is going to give them wide open looks
To answer your question at 11:30, yes, he was stat padding for 42 games 😂. He stat padded every game he played that season. Russ has never been a ceiling raiser, only a floor raiser. He almost always makes bad decisions on offense and defense, doesn't know when to slow down and make smart reads on offense, stands around when playing off ball, and pouts when he doesn't get his inflated assist and rebound numbers. But he **can** score 30 on 30% shooting if his team is struggling to score, which can win enough games to be the 8th seed. So... I guess if that makes you an MVP... sure... you can have him on your team, but I'd go with an above average role player instead.
They were the 6th seed, not 8th. He dragged a very bad team to the 6th seed. It's not just about the numbers, but obviously, making history did matter for the award. Also, you don't average 10 assists if you "always make bad decisions on offense".
@@mekacrabI will argue that Russ was not trying to actually maximize the roster around him more so than the roster was very bad. Also, when those 10 assists always come with a high turnover rate, that kinda undermines them.
He’s definitely an overrated player. That year people were so blinded by the triple double and didn’t pay attention to his turnovers and shooting percentage. The years after he got exposed and now people see yeah that style doesn’t win
@@chrisuncleahmad666That record is the only argument you have made for his MVP season. Btw, Russ doesn't care about his shooting percentage, but he has shrunk in the spotlight before. What Russ did that season was amazing and historic; however, when you look at the context, it was not as impressive as many people say it was.
Underrated because he did it beside shitty Andre Roberson beside him. Kyle Singler was also on that team though, so its shocking they didnt win the whole damn year.
It's statistically the most inefficient mvp season ever. Harden deserved the MVP way more. But the "story" of KD leaving and a triple double season was more appealing to the media.
![Kodak Black - Versatile 4 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VcP_1Ua__vY/mqdefault.jpg)
Russ in 2017 was like a golden knight since everyone hated kd for leaving they praised him
Don’t act like it was just KD hate that fuelled it (deff a factor) but Russ was heroic. For me the nuggets game sealed it, only 8 games worse after KD left, insane work
And everyone knew who the hell was winning it all since wasn't much suspense AT ALL.
@@enjoisk8ing37 And a first round exit..
players with no chips arent meaningful players. hell never be in the hall of fame. stat padders are not impressive players at all and never have been. his triple double season wasnt authentic
@@nomercyinc6783you don’t know basketball if you think he not an instant hofer and it was authentic what he did his roster around him was not very good
Lunch while syntetic sports always great
My lunch breaks , videos make me smile
Everyday at work baby, it's the best thing you could ask for
lol. Doing the same
Used to watch during lunch breaks, now i watch in between classes
Me everytime they drop
This marked the shift of the whole mvp notion from the best player on the best team to the player with the best numbers..
Easily
Best player on the best team isn’t a perfect notion either tho. Should Tatum have won it last season?
More like narrative base. Harden and Luka in 19 and 24 objectivley put better numbers than Giannis and Jokic, yet for some reason they were not voted
It became the player who was actually the most valuable to their team
@@JoseFranco9 their numbers lead to the 4th seed respectively for both teams. Giannis numbers lead to the Bucks having the best record. Jokic in 2024 had a better record than Luka and the Mavs.
Was at the record breaking Nuggets game and that is 100% the best sporting moment of my life the crowd was so mixed with people cheering due to Russ and the record but also sadness from the Nuggets losing and missing the playoffs
He also set the single season quadruple double record.
- 12-4-16: 28p/17r/12a/10to
- 1-13-17: 21p/11r/12a/10to
- 1-18-17: 27p/15r/13a/10to
Damn 😭
LMAO
damn 😂😂😂😂😂
Okay that’s funny
@@Avocado11 lmfao
Im a joint OKC and Nuggets fan (family in OKC, live in Denver). And went to that Nuggets OKC game. It was such a great environment and core sports memory of mine.
That '16-'17 season was such a cool experience. I had to tune in each Thunder game just to see if Westbrook's sheer willpower could push the team to another win. I've been so much more invested in the Thunder and the NBA as a whole ever since.
Mane yall definitely one of my favorite nba RUclips pages bruh keep dropping these gems mane
That mvp season was crazy tho and that game winning shot in Denver to get into the playoffs was awesome
I think there’s no way he wouldn’t have won it. Revolutionary stat line and a narrative that favors him more than anyone else in the league bc of KD hate, but it only took one season for people to realize averaging a triple double didn’t fix Russes terrible efficiency and shooting
Russ made it underrated because he kept averaging a triple double the next 3 seasons...which IS CRACKED!
Very possibly the best statistical and highlights layer ever, but he was never really a guy who could win as a team player, and he was always worse on defense than he should’ve been.
His efficiency was poor and he was a stat padder
@@FinneganMurray-pb2ejseemed he liked to go for the steal a lot
@FinneganMurray-pb2ej on those aspects yeah...Yeah you can't ignore his Alpha dog Personality on that court...especially on that efficiency
more like despite adding top 10-15 level talent to the team they didn't win shit, never made it out of the first round. The triple-doubles didn't lead to winning so they don't frankly matter.
Russ will always be one of my fav players. Yeah he has his faults but how many players dont have flaws in their game.
His mvp season was just so fun to watch and for him to end the game when he got his 42nd triple double the way he did was just beautiful.
I know it wasnt this season and say what u will about the guy, but very very few players could actually get a stat line of 20-20-20 cuz they set their minds to it.
Fax
I need a Steve Nash Suns retrospective, or a video about his two MVP seasons
As one of the biggest Steve Nash fans out there, I'd also enjoy this
As an NBA fan, I want this
@@FootyInsights_ i had the idea from the 2013 Lakers failure video
@BenjaSeimei07 Here's the short version: The Suns took advantage of the new rules and used Steve Nash to inflate their numbers, then actual superstars showed up in the playoffs and sent him home every year.
@@CrooklynBanks Lol sure
I will always be biased towards peak Russ because he helped get me into basketball. I didn’t grow up a basketball fan but was interested in getting into the sport around this time, and in addition to my hometown Wizards, I really loved Russ. The highlights are incredible, he plays the game on one speed for better and for worse which is so fun to watch, and despite his hustle and activity isn’t a dirty player, which is rarer than it should be. I really enjoyed watching him on the Wizards, even if it was really sad to see Wall go in the trade that got him here. I probably overrate him, but I do think he’s been underrated since leaving the Lakers
12:15 oh now I WANNA hear your take on this
Perfect, I was just wondering what to watch.
Looks like you casuals forgot Russ did it again in Washington in ‘20-21
2017 was definitely a year to remember 🔥
not over not under. he played well and deserved the mvp that season.
12:18am where i live but will always watch synthetic sports video before i sleep
Russ hitting an emote during that assist is too funny
It was without a doubt the most exciting season of fantasy hoops ever with him on your squad
I got him in 2017, then my email was hacked and i lost him
@@SuperSikarlo😂😂
People that discredit him by saying that he's stat padding don't understand that even if your goal is to stat pad, it takes a lot of skill to still be able to reach the numbers you want.
There are great players that played in the league that were more selfish and don't get criticized like Westbrook does.
That is true, but that doesn't make it any more okay for them than it does for Russ.
In games Russ got triple doubles in 2017, OKC was 33-9
And people saying padded rebounds, yet the season KD got hurt, he almost averaged one then
@@Bigedub1017.3 rebounds and 8.6 assists. He was close, but not that close.
Dude even getting a triple double in just over half the regular season worth of games is wild
Reminds me of Arsenals invincible season
People don’t realize how hard it is to average a 30 point triple double but after looking at the fg% and turnovers, it shows why it isn’t considered the greatest season ever
Just picked up breakfast… perfect timing
Russ will forever be stuck between overrated to underrated.
If you don’t like his play style, then he’s overrated
If you like his stats, then he is underrated
His Play style ain’t bad he play like a point gaurd version of Giannis
It just sucks because had he not had so many glaring flaws, we’re probably talking about the best PG of all time. He was certainly the most athletic PG to ever play the position, and an amazing dunker, a solid ball handler, strong, fast as hell. His problem was his IQ. Had he been a smarter player, he could have gotten rid of a lot of his flaws, especially the turnovers and forced bricks.
@@akwesirobinson1710It's very difficult for point guards to have that play style.
He’s good but not among the greatest imo. Every great player can take their team on a playoff run given multiple opportunities. He’s only done that with KD, arguably the best scorer in history and hasn’t come close on his own. I don’t expect a ring or even finals appearance…but if you’re that guy u should be able to carry a team through a couple rounds.
@@cwjalexxEspecially when he had PG and Carmelo in 2017-18 and MVP/DPOY candidate PG and a deeper roster the following year.
As soon as I sit down for lunch I think what is Synthetics vid today. 😢
damn megalopolis caught a stray
3:29 it’s an OK C team
That MVP year I think I went to nine or 10 thunder home games... and I believe we won each of them all were like really close.. I knew I was watching greatness but I didn't know he would be the MVP
This man took a record that most ppl saw as unbreakable (avg triple double for a season) and did it 4 times. I think Westbrook is incredibly underrated and he is one of the best pure basketball players (not saying the best (at all)) of all time. Ppl some now miraculously underestimate averaging a triple double and I find it funny bc ppl say he’s stat padding. If it was so easy then there’s at least 100 selfish players and probably 15 stars who don’t give a damn about winning that would be doing the same thing. He’s underrated and what he’s done has been totally minimized when it should be revered IMO. Luka might end up being the next one to average a triple double he’s been really close and jokic too but neither of them have so we’ll see
I remember this series he was in the perfect shape and form he had his explosiveness at 22 and his strength at 33 combined but in the later years he gained muscle messing with shot and his end to end speed even though he was still fast and i rember how fatigue he was carrying that team for the most part he would do good the first 3 quarters and run out of gas the lads quarter I don’t know why the coach didn’t try to find him minutes to rest
The Brodie is still in his prime. LOYALTY!!!!!
Another great vid
Properly rated first triple double he made it common he carried that team it was a great season I don't think its over or underrated
Of course his teammates would shoot bad if between 4 starters & a bench player they only got ELEVEN shots while one person is getting EIGHTEEN & not making many at that. That was a microcosm of that yr. Imo... Great achievement individually but kind of unfair to say he had no help when night in night out they were playing to get him his triple doubles. It was obvious "if I pass you the ball you better shoot & you better make it or give it back" energy
Im not trying to be disrespectful but to many people look fondly on those Triple double seasons like they were impactful at all. His first season maybe considering the historical significance of it but i watched every single okc thunder game those seasons im a kiwi so obviously a huge Steven Adams guy and i would watch Russ literally steal rebounds from his bigs, openly berate both Steven and Serge if they even thought about grabbing a rebound. Im willing to bet that over 60% of his assists were from bail outs after his useless attempts to dribble and penetrate failed. He was a athletic stat padder who played with tremendous energy and heart. But none of his play contributed to any productive or meaningful basketball. When he wasn't been carried by a actual superstar (Kevin in OKC) (Harden in Houston) hes a first round exit or 10th seed.
I was with you until you starting talking about KD. Russ gets scapegoated when KD had a lot of 4th quarter mistakes and both are reason why they choked vs the Warriors in 2016. Also Scott Brooks. Obviously KD is the better player but he never carried Russ either
@@CroutonicknightBilly Donovan was the coach when they blew that 3-1 lead, not Scott Brooks.
@@urbaindelva7869 Oh true you're right. Man both of those coaches were just terrible in crunch time
To me, that season had a lot of diminishing returns, where you can do something a lot of times but the value/lack of value of return you get from it gets lower and lower. Jordan's most successful seasons were when he stopped being the only part of offensive engine.
I think the reason why Jokic and LeBron haven't done it is simply because of that factor. To put that much focus on one person to do all of those things takes away from other players. There is an intangible effect that that will have on the team on and off the court. If we really think about it, we didn't really know how much that team could do because of the triple double season. Oladipo and Sabonis became all-stars after they left, Steven Adams helped turn to grizzlies into a fun yet tough team, etc. We don't know what that team would have been if Russ didn't do that.
What we do know is how far it took them...
Kyle Singler was the guy who inbounded to Russ on the Nuggets game winner, not Sabonis but love the videos guys 🙌
I hate the Internet these days. The fact that they have to blur what they described as the "Stone Cold Steve Austin" is ridiculous. We all know the dudes just flipping the bird. We all have seen it, and it’s really not that gratuitous of a site. Fuck youtube
You should do a retrospective on the Derick Rose Chicago bulls or a video on the 2011 Chicago Bulls
It’s crazy how are you guys still have 70,000 subscribers and talk tauh podcast can have over 100k
You can like him all the fuck you want but please don’t put him in the same class as Steph. Russ is nowhere near Steph at all..
His delusional stans will still find a way. They put him in conversations he doesn't belong in.
@@bikramarora1819 Agreed 💯
It’s incredibly ignorant to criticize Westbrook for his triple double stat padding because his winning % with triple doubles was well above 60%, might’ve been 70% at one point. The criticism with Westbrook was always his utter inability to adapt his game situationally. Particularly at the end of 4th quarters where he’d turn into a million dollar athlete with a 10 cent brain.
But I honestly can’t stand when people try to “overrate” historical greatness like his season after KD left. There are elite level guys and would-be pros playing in beer leagues all over the world who could never touch that kind of spectacular achievement. Let alone in one of the greatest leagues in the world.
There's a reason that MJ loves Westbrook. Easily a top 15 peak all time. Lacking efficiency is a fair price to pay when you play your entire game as a Super Saiyan. His payoff record shouldn't be held against him considering he had almost no help.
Yeah, he not a threat to his legacy
No. I like Russ, but there are many players who had a better peak than him, especially his contemporaries. In Russ's case, lacking efficiency has NEVER been a fair price to pay because it has constantly prevented himself and his team from achieving more. Also, yes, he didn't have much help in 2016-17, but you could also argue that he didn't try to make the most of the help he had. In 2017-18, he had PG and Carmelo. In 2018-19, he had MVP candidate PG and a deeper roster; they lost in the first round both times, and he was still averaging a triple double during those seasons. So, why should he be blameless?
“WHAT A PERFECT ENDING TO A HISTORIC DAY!”
Hope you cover more players careers, maybe DeMarcus Cousins could be up next?
Russ' MVP season really broke the traditional mold of what it took to have a successful campaign. After the 2017 season, the voting patterns really haven't been the same and I think that was proven again last season. I really thought SGA should've won MVP for his historic season leading OKC to being the youngest first seed in NBA history while averaging 30 for the season, but because Jokic's stats were more efficient he still won MVP despite being a 4th seed.
nuggets were the second seed lol and the record for both teams were identical okc just had the tie breaker at that point yeah you go with who had better overall stats which was jokic lol
Jokic stole an MVP from Giannis in 2022 as a SIXTH seed because efficiency
He has 3 MVP’s when in reality Jokic should have only 1
@@MusicLover-my6fo Lol what NBA were you watching? Denver was the 2nd seed, not the 4th seed.
Plus they virtually had the same record. 57 wins for both OKC and Denver.
Y'all really just be saying anything on here.
The thing is, any NBA player can average a triple double if they wanted to. But Russ was going for it, although poor efficiency and all that. Thats why he is just properly rated. Not in the higher echelon of the MVPs before and after, just right there in the middle
This just isn’t true.
Not any NBA player can average a triple double. That is bull.
Look at my name. I miss prime russ he was so fye. And Russ is one of those guys that for sure has been very over and underrated throughout his career. Times when he didnt get the credit he deserved and times when he was just outright selling but i like brodie and fuck it imma still say underrated 😎
As terrific as Russ's MVP season was, I believe that Harden should've won the award. His stats were similar to Russ's except more efficient across the board and he led his team to more wins with an undertalented roster as well. Knowing what I know now about Russ's triple doubles that season, I don't think that it was as impressive as many people think. It was still an all-time great accomplishment, but the way he did it and the impact it had on his team's success kinda undermined it as well.
Oh Russ Teammates shouldn't even been in the playoffs
@@nothingherezero7182Well, they were. So what?
I have a video idea. You should a video on the 2014 Pacers. I feel like that has been forgotten about by NBA fans
17:27 that is a fucking insane foul by Grant in that situation jeezus lmao
My 3rd favorite player of all time 🐐
If the team is 100% built around him and teamates are only allowed to boxout so he can rebound: MVP.
If the team is not build around him, like 99.9% of pro basketball players: the front office go out of its way to pay him his full salary not to play and to trade him.
There's no grey area in the over or underrated question really
Westbrook is my favorite PG all time.
I love prime Russ so and I think his peak is one of the best in modern nba history and a top 10
Love your vids
Beastbrook
Was a fun interesting season for Westbrook. To bad him and his team went out with a quiet whimper. 😁
He was so Clutch that season. Russ is like top 5 in top 4th quarter scorers in modern era
I think it’s obviously a fantastic season, but the fact it’s a conversation is solely due to his inefficiency. I think even at the time everyone knew KD curry lebron and probably harden were better overall players. The triple double average is absolutely historic, but the turnovers and rough shooting nights make this a conversation.
Neither, Russ is rated appropriately! He is a HOF
Overrated for a while, recently has become way too underrated, especially after he left the Lakers.
I say it was overrated only bc i remember during that time people was saying russ was better than steph, and in no world has russ ever been better than steph
Luka was like .6 rebound and .2 assist off it this season i don't know about rebounds but assist are going up and he was always good rebounder so he will do it if he wants to
That season came with one of the highest Turnover rate
we thought averaging a triple double for a season would never happen. russ has done it 4 times. surprised you guys didn’t bring that up.
Yes, he did. But the way he was getting them also undermined it.
I need a 2018 LeThanos video
Gunna have to go over rated on this one. Watched it and he was inefficient with empty stats. Got handled in the playoffs also.
Respectfully Harden should’ve won the 2017 MVP
Me personally I say he deserved the 2015 and 2019 MVP’s
@@dierise6875 nah just 2017 and 2018, as much as I hate to say it curry deserved mvp in 2015 and Giannis deserved it in 2019
This will sound a bit weird, but to me, MVP Russ is both overrated AND overhated. No, I don't think he should have been MVP that year, I do think Harden should have won it, and I do think he stat-padded a bit & his stats & impact on the Thunder were a bit overrated. But I also do think that Russ gets shit-on way too much & has been hounded for his style of play, but again, comparing him to some of the current day superstars & all, at least this guy cared a lot & would always give you 100% of what he had (even if in a flawed way).
They were 33-9 in triple double games that year
I’m sorry but isn’t the idea of stat padding usually associated with bad records?
@@chrisuncleahmad666You can still stat-pad even when you win.
Imo his injuries also hurt his jumper and his lift
He is not a winning player. But his MVP is solid and averaging a triple double is great. I only thought he did it twice.
The greatest legacy of Russell Westbrook will be the fact that he made the triple-double, which was always considered an extraordinary feat, irrelevant and plain ordinary.
Citi Boi Russsssss Yeahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
It was exciting to watch, a lot of hero ball. But his contribution to the team is overrated because his passing and his rebounding skills aren't that great in relative to the high numbers. What I mean by that is that his assists numbers aren't created because of his passing skills, it's because he created a lot of pressure for other team's defense, which allows him to pass to open teammates. And when it comes to his rebounds, you can argue he didn't steal the rebounds, but most of the rebounds he caught weren't contested rebounds. Meaning that even if he wasn't there, other teammates could have grabbed it too.
I feel like you guys didn’t mention the years when Russ was KD’s second option, the team had a lot of playoff success
Russ taught me you dont need a triple double to win in the playoffs.....You need a 2 Way Star. Someone who can defend on a great level
Clearly overrated to me. However, many agree with me, so idk what the proper word is. I think a better way of framing it that it's one of the lesser MVP seasons.
The weakest MVP season will forever be 2022 Jokic
A SIXTH seed?! Give me a break
@@chrisuncleahmad666Uh, OKC was the sixth seed when Russ won his MVP award as well. The supporting cast he had may not have fit his play style, but it wasn't much better than what Jokić had. The difference is that Jokić actually maximized the help he had to the best of his ability; Russ didn't.
Might be a hot take here but I don’t mind the NBA Awards show at all like not even a little bit that’s probably because because I’ve watching football all my life and they have the NFL Honors buuuuuuuuut I still don’t prefer the NBA Awards show over the award presentations at the stadiums just didn’t think it was all that big of deal or terrible idea
Dropping 58 points just to lose had to hurt so bad
On surface, it's underrated. But if u actually watched and dig deep. It's overrated. He won cu, of the narrative, stats and passion. But the way it was done was not pretty at all
I always felt that Russ stat padding for triple doubles was just a way for him to get his excuses in early. Team wins? Of course we won, I got a triple double. Team loses? Don't look at me, I got a triple double. Never mind my horrid efficiency, my historic turnovers, my shameless ball hogging and refusal to play defense, I got a triple double. Stop questioning me, I'm a great player, my stats say so.
Definition of why box score records shouldn't be used as a argument for on courct impact
When Russ got a triple double in 2017, they were 33-9
@@chrisuncleahmad666 Correlation does not imply causation. Do you have any evidence to suggest triple doubles have some intrinsic value? When Oscar Robertson had his triple double season, he got eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. Every time Russ has averaged a triple double for the season, he gets eliminated in the first round. Perhaps building a team entirely around a single player accumulating stats, is actually bad strategy? Or maybe they don’t mean a damn thing, like any stat taken out of context.
@@nigelee Thats just you hating on Russ. He never threw teammates under the bus and always defended them regardless of their numbers or performance. Every single player from that season has praised Russ as a teammate which you wouldn't do to someone passing the blame of a first round exit off to you.
I mean you just correlated Russ' triple doubles with an argument that he wasn't the problem and decided, with zero evidence, that this was the cause of his triple doubles. Hell, all the evidence points to that not being the reason for his triple doubles but you still used it to draw a conclusion.
As far as the Thunder having a record of 33-9 when Russ had a triple double, thats actual evidence that the triple double has intrinsic value. Its true that correlation does not equal causation. However, to disprove that the triple double was not the cause of the record, you would need to put forth a counter argument.
@@noconaroubideaux9423 Let's go through this point by point.
Where, exactly, did I claim Russ threw teammates under the bus? Don't go putting words in my mouth. I claimed that Russ pads his stats to cover up how poor a player he really is. Don't give me tripe about how popular he is. Don't care, not relevant.
Your second paragraph is so poorly written that I'm unsure of what you're trying to say, so I'm just going to have to try and explain myself again. Stats without context - or used out of context - are useless and/or misleading. That's goes double for triple doubles, which have no intrinsic value beyond bragging rights. Getting a triple double does not get you extra points on the scoreboard or extra time on the shot clock. It was supposed to be an indicator of versatility and effort, but Russ has devalued it by deliberately hunting numbers instead of earning them in the flow of the game.
There's no need for me to disprove the claim that Russ's triple doubles lead to wins, because I'm not the one making the claim. If you declare that ghosts exist, its up to you provide proof, not for skeptics to prove you wrong. I could just as easily claim that record was due to the Thunder's defense, which was rated 10th best in the league that year, and would have been even better if Russ bothered to play any defense.
Yet another situation where I was called a hater but I was right. Though it was impressive to see Westbrook average a triple double, I said that the Thunder would be better off with an old school floor general pure point guard.... Westbrook left, Paul came in and the result was that the Thunder had a higher win percentage with Paul.
He didn't deserve MVP because he didn't actually make his team that much better.
Well, Paul got there 3 seasons later, and OKC's roster was slightly different by then. But I agree overall.
Oh you mean Chris Paul can lead the fucking Thunder team that lost when Westbrook on the bench the team your thinking of with Chris Paul was completely different players
Kyle singler inbounded the ball in that nuggets game
2×3 that's a triple-double
I think it will happen again.
Jokic averaged 9.8 assists in 2023, if he truly wanted it and wasn’t focused on the playoffs I think he would have done it. (Fun fact the 2024-25 Denver Nuggets roster is responsible for 10.35% of all triple doubles in NBA history)
Wemby the sky is the limit, frankly he might average a triple double with 10 blocks instead of assists! Eventually he will be paired with another star and that’s when I think his assist numbers will explode
Wemby will be the first player to average a quadruple double.
Okay I'm just dreaming... unless
@@mekacrab I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t do it for a single game at some stage of his career. 30-10-5-5 feels achievable for a season, if he gets help in the form of a spot up shooter his gravity is going to give them wide open looks
@@KC1996LFC At least one quad double yes it's doable for sure.
If he can't nobody can.
Please please please make a video about Starting 5, I need to talk to someone about it
To answer your question at 11:30, yes, he was stat padding for 42 games 😂. He stat padded every game he played that season. Russ has never been a ceiling raiser, only a floor raiser. He almost always makes bad decisions on offense and defense, doesn't know when to slow down and make smart reads on offense, stands around when playing off ball, and pouts when he doesn't get his inflated assist and rebound numbers. But he **can** score 30 on 30% shooting if his team is struggling to score, which can win enough games to be the 8th seed. So... I guess if that makes you an MVP... sure... you can have him on your team, but I'd go with an above average role player instead.
They were the 6th seed, not 8th. He dragged a very bad team to the 6th seed. It's not just about the numbers, but obviously, making history did matter for the award.
Also, you don't average 10 assists if you "always make bad decisions on offense".
@@mekacrabI will argue that Russ was not trying to actually maximize the roster around him more so than the roster was very bad. Also, when those 10 assists always come with a high turnover rate, that kinda undermines them.
Sabonis was on the bench when Russ hit that shot against nuggets 😅
He’s definitely an overrated player. That year people were so blinded by the triple double and didn’t pay attention to his turnovers and shooting percentage. The years after he got exposed and now people see yeah that style doesn’t win
33-9 with triple doubles that year
And yet we glorify guys who care more about protecting their shooting percentage and shrink in the spotlight
@@chrisuncleahmad666That record is the only argument you have made for his MVP season. Btw, Russ doesn't care about his shooting percentage, but he has shrunk in the spotlight before. What Russ did that season was amazing and historic; however, when you look at the context, it was not as impressive as many people say it was.
20 20 20 game wtf
Underrated because he did it beside shitty Andre Roberson beside him. Kyle Singler was also on that team though, so its shocking they didnt win the whole damn year.
I think this version of Russ is a HOF caliber player without a championship to his name imo
It's statistically the most inefficient mvp season ever. Harden deserved the MVP way more. But the "story" of KD leaving and a triple double season was more appealing to the media.
It's not just a story, it's a historical feat.
The short answer is no, and the long answer is hell no
saying megalopolis doesn't make sense is pretty weak stuff.. then again look what im commenting on
Its overrated if u think this is a top 10 peak all time
Considering he's the only one who did it, it's top 10
@@SuperSikarlo exactly
Bruh ain’t no way you’ll actually believe this 🤦🏾♂️
Bait
@@SuperSikarloBig O, next