Why No One Could Score on the ‘04 Pistons || Thinking Basketball
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
- Ben Taylor of “Thinking Basketball” breaks down how the vaunted defense of the Detroit Pistons slowed down Shaq, Kobe & the Lakers in Game 3 of the 2004 NBA Finals.
Never miss a moment with the latest news, trending stories and highlights to bring you closer to your favorite players and teams.
Download now ➡ link.nba.com/N...
Subscribe to the NBA: on.nba.com/2JX...
Giving Ben Wallace the ball on the first shot against Shaq is diabolical.
And then banking the shot in as well lol AHAHAHAHA
I think the last time we really saw this was with Kendrick Perkins- he'd get the first post up every game and you'd watch a real adventure. Probably the most interesting thing about watching a Doc Rivers Celtics game.
It worked though
Actually that was a strategy they used to keep Ben locked in. He wanted to be a part of the offense even though he couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn, but if they ignored him all game he’d get bummed out and lose some intensity, so they started going to him early in games to boost his morale. Plus it’s hard to win playing 4 vs 5, and as much as he couldn’t shoot, he could hit a wide open one, so it kept the defense at least a little honest.
Also that first shot against Shaq was wet as hell. He definitely didn’t call glass that’s for sure.
So glad the NBA has our boy on here doing these videos. His channel is also very good.
What’s his channel?
@@miatikaThinking Basketball
his channel is actually way better content than any major companies that cover the nba! no drama, real analytics. about time nba gets some real stuff out
Best channel
"our boy"
Something a sus anime profile picture would say.
Do the same type of thing but for the 89 pistons. They only allowed 100 points twice all postseason, in an era where the pace was far higher than the 2000's. What they did in a time when the nba had never seen the slow paced, physical defensive oriented style was historic. Them being so dominant and winning back to back with their style is the reason the 90s and 2000s became the dead ball era. Every team started adopting their principals, and they really changed the game and launched the dead ball era.
The nba actually posted a Thinking basketball video??? Nice!
He’s been working making videos for the nba pretty recently
He’s been here quite a while already.. You can check some vids back..
I don't think I've ever seen the broadcast footage of this Finals in HD before. Looks amazing
Bastards keeping in archive best videos, and they dont wanna share it
RIP Hamilton is so underrated just watching him move with out the ball and how hard you had to work to keep up with him if you think Steph, Ray and Reggie were the only players moving with out the ball you need to check him out and give him his flowers one of my favourite NBA players.
I've always liked Rip! Especially in his Uconn days!
Middy assassin
Rip was smoother than all of them
daily reminder that Hamilton is NOT actually dead
@@Nocxys that was his Nick name what are you talking about nobody said he was dead? Chauncey had a nickname (Mr Big Shot) as well like seriously 😂
I'm glad you called out the hunting of Shaqs weak defence. You often read he was the only one to show up in this series for the Lakers but only on the offensive side of the court.
The 2004 Eastern Conference Finals was part of the reason why we had more movement towards the offense. It's easy to forget but the Pacers were the second best defesnive team that year and the Pacers and Pistons had scores like... 70 to 68. The NBA hated it, the viewers hated it, and it started a long trend towards favoring the offense.
Absolutely, that series was madness. One of my favorites, but certainly not very entertaining for a lot of NBA fans who want to see basket after basket and more offense. Things changed drastically after the 2004 playoffs.
People complain about no defence being played now but that happened because people hated how slow the 2000s were
Same with the Nets series. The first game was 78-56! 56!!!!!
Born in ‘99 and from the West Side of Detroit 🥹 This is nostalgic
You were literally 5 years old you can barelly remember..
@@westside-qe3yq Imagine telling somebody what THEY remember…
@@SueSonStray
Considering your brain thrives on 30 second instant gratification clips, his comment makes sense. No need to get emotional, formula baby.
@@joebenson528calm down
I'm teaching my 4th grader how to defend. If he can play defense then he will be far ahead of most kids because all kids want to do is dribble and shoot.
Teach him to love defense too not just defense itself
And to love the off-ball movement on offense. Only 1 out of 5 gets to ball at a time…
@@DrKnowNothing1 Haha we talked about thas last night after his practice. He is very fast but a slow dribbler so I told him to focus on getting open and catch/shoot/pass to the open man. Let the little dribble heads be pg. He's a off guard.
Defense not really a skill. Luck you have physical advantages over person. As seen how bad bam gobert ad look vs jokic. Nurkic does better job. But 4th grade so its meaningless besides important father son time
Teach him Effort first then break down defensive techniques
I always thought it was funny how Detroit got and kept Lindsey Hunter that year in all their deals.
First, he got traded to the Pistons from the Raptors before the regular season started.
Then he got traded away in the Rasheed Wallace deal.
After that he gets let go by whoever and signed as a free agent by Detroit like a week later.
What a great close up of an iconic team. This is a great video to send to your friends that say "defense is just about effort". There's so much skill, anticipation, IQ, and scouting that's involved. Achieving a great defense is probably the most complicated and nuanced aspect of team building, and that Detroit team is the benchmark for what a great defense looks like. In the words of Larry Brown, the '04 Pistons are a testament to "playing the right way".
this era of the nba was soooo rough offensively my lord
…because of the lack of shooters?
Lack of skill
then allen iverson came in and set up for these new tuff ball handlers
For real after golden state in 2015 people started bringing in shooters making outside shots more reliable to create more for inside shots making better offense
@@PBandJJJJJas well as different ruleset and best players were inside scorers i.e. Shaq, timmy , etc.
CAN THE NBA GO BACK TO THESE RULES!!!!
This is awesome stuff, a pleasure to watch and actually informative. Hats off, great content.
Detroit's defense was one of the best I saw in 03-04. Ben Wallace was awesome.
The details in this video 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I’ve watched all of the 2004 and 2005 NBA Finals, and this video’s title has both meanings working. No one could score against the Pistons and no one could score for the Pistons. Ben Wallace putting up 8 points one game felt like he dropped 30
This was the most Impactful series on me as a kid. As a blazer fan I naturally hated the lakers and I was a big fan of Ben Wallace and had become a Detroit fan as well. So seeing them shame the lakers in 5 games after everyone picked the lakers to win will be hard to top as my favorite NBA memory
The team that got me into basketball 20 years ago!
And now they ass
Would love more discussion of the schematic differences in defenses before/after the 2002 rule changes. At 10:09, Hamilton does something that would be illegal just a few years earlier by guarding empty space below the free-throw line (i.e., not guarding a man but floating defensively in anticipation of Kobe’s drive). Seems like the Pistons were the first team to figure these concepts out (formalized later by Thibs and the Celtics). I’ve seen footage of 80s/90s teams getting away with illegal defense, but it seems like surprisingly few teams quickly pivoted to it after it became legalized. The freedom of movement rules were as much a reaction to zone legalization and the relative inelasticity of shooting talent as anything else. The years between zone legalization and the “pace-and-space era” are really interesting because of these attempts by the league to fine-tune the game. It’s a topic that could easily fill a 30+ minute video.
Yeah, I think it took some time after zone defense was legalized to realize that it didn't just enable the zone- you see it here with some of the massive sags- since you no longer have to show an iota of respect to non-shooters you can play some pretty radical (for their time) help concepts. I think Thibs brought that front and center and player development started to catch up after a few years where it became expected that if you're a role player, you had better be able to shoot.
The big lesson ended up being, removing illegal defense didn't necessarily bring about zones (defensive 3 seconds kinda prevents some zones from being used effectively anyway) as the primary defense like Euroleague, but it did bring about zone-like defensive schemes and pick and roll coverages.
@@PanzehVideos That part of the game(sagging off) has always been subjective as the definition of illegal defense always seemed to change. In 90s games, I've seen guys sagging off like that during an entire game and not being called for Illegal defense and I've seen guys being called for doing a lot less. The 1996 Sonics ran a very similar style of defense to these Pistons's team, most of the time pushing the boundaries that illegal defense set. I mean, at what point you're not guarding your man anymore? The refs called what they wanted to call from game to game lol. Another thing was spacing. With the spacing of the 90s and 80s, guys could sag off or play hybrid zones without totally leaving their man, since the spacing was so poor at times. You're right about the 3 seconds defensive rule defangling zones, which is why we don't see much of it, mainly in today's game when almost everyone shoots 3s.
This was my childhood. Thank you for bringing back these incredible memories!
One thing about this Pistons team was their deep bench. Hunter was a genius defender who could guard and bother bigger players (him and Rasheed are among the best I've seen among players without defensive selections). Hunter and Mike James were named 'Pitbulls' due to their peskiness and physicallity on the defensive end. Campbell was a great defensive big off the bench. Williamson was a big guy who caused problems on the post and gave them good offense and Okur was not only big and tough, he was also an offensive threat with his long range shooting. Overall, a deep, well coached defensive roster.
I'm suprised that the pistons holding teams under 70 points was not mentioned in this video and the pistons held the lakers under 70 points in game 3 of the 2004 nba finals.
Same! Wasn't it something like kept opponents to under 100 points for 30 games straight and under 70 for 10 straight?
Ben Wallace Aka modern day Bill Russell
Great breakdown! This Detroit team is one of my favorite teams in history.
More of this type o video pls
Great content about my favorite team ever! 😊
it's important to note that it wasn't just that they had great starting 5... but that they're bench was also very phenomenal. And one of the reasons they didn't repeat was cause after this season a lot of their bench (e.g. Okur) left the next year for bigger contracts (this run got a lot of players paid).
NEVER STOP DOING THESE💯🤩🤩
seeing Stuart Scott definitely hit me in the feels...🥲😮💨
RIP
need more of these
4:06 RIP Mr. Stuart Scott
This Pistons team was incredible defensively. They had all the versatility needed to win a championship and they delivered.
Excellent!
Everyone that loves and studies the game must watch...and learn!
These guys remind me of the 2019 Raptors. Just super crafty defence with a bunch of high IQ guys and a lot of length.
Fantastic breakdown.
Yes! These guys were great. They held their opponents under 100 for almost the entire playoffs, only the Jersey Nets got one
One key component of their bench you missed was the addition of Mike James as a second guard. He was also a total bulldog defensively and the combo of him and Linsey almost always completed discombobulated the opponent's offense. Made up for the fact that whatever meager offense the Pistons had would stall out with the bench.
I can watch this all day!!! More 04 Pistons breakdown!!! It's the beautiful defensive answer to the '12 Spurs beautiful offense. Try
-Forced 26 to, 12 dunks in Rd 1 vs Bucks
-19 blocks vs Pacers in ECF
-Hold Nets to 58 pts in playoff game
-or lockdown the 05 West all stars
(Sorry Lakers fans, no lame excuses. No luck involved. We curb-stomped everybody the whole season and were far too athletic for LA.)
Any video on the goin to work pistons is always a W
One of the favourite teams all time. I write the same childish comment in every Thinking Basketball video about defense but: is Ben Wallace the most underrated player all time. Not defensive, but overall. However, this video made me realize that Rasheed was probably as valuable (because of the impact after the acquisition). We can see Sheed being strong to hold against Shaq for some time, his mobility and, especially, from all Pistons players a) their awareness (which is the hardest skill almost in all life) and b) their commitment to the system. They do their piece in the puzzle because/and it makes the machinery works.
Best D ever. Let's see if SA can eventually put a team together around Wemby to knock these '04 Pistons off their throne
Imagine if Wallace was a lil more aggressive and consistent with those midrange jumpers. Their offense would’ve benefited tremendously
what a blessing
One big feature of this team was rip Hamilton. He could run a 4 minute mile and chasing him around the court would wear his man out.
Big respect to that 04 Pistons. They were the underdogs that time, facing a Lakers superteam.
I did not expect thinking bball to break down an 04 pistons game. Great job!
The offensive skills are embarrassing this era
As a Mavs fan, that 04 Pistons team is the first NBA team i noticed
What a badass team that was.
Pistons would have gotten their rematch against the spurs in 2007 if they still got Big Ben, but they lost the series to future Lakers superstar Lebron James who led the Cavaliers to elimination of Detroit in 6 games of the eastern conference finals
4-6 finals record 😂
@@rafaelmeza725
Still 4 Championship which is lot better than 2-6 or 3-5 or
🤣
@@swarajthapa5798 6 losses is nothing to brag about bird brain 🤣🤡😂💯🙌 🐐goats don't lose period lmao 😂 🤣
Only reason Lakers don’t get swept is because of Kobe hitting a game tying 3 to send it to OT in game 2
T Prince with those lanky arms would disrupt constant shots
“he’s gonna come all the way over to Meat O’Neal” 😂
Back then when Detroit Pistons is a thing to watch.
That Pistons 04' was one my first favorite team and underdog story. They were so smart in Defense, it was amazing to watch. I just don't like this series boiled down to whole Shaq/Kobe issues and abusing the power dynamic between them. It was a complete strategical victory.
Ben Wallace used to be everywhere defensively. His usual highlights show his blocks but Ben used to get lots of steals & pick up guards with ease in his prime.
Man this was painful to watch as a Laker fan.. hats off to Detroit though
Yeah,I was a Laker fan also,but,knew the Pistons would win,they were so-HUNGRY-for a chip that year and played defense like it. LA were a team full of egos and disfunction ( Kobe's rape trial/case-him and Shaq still beefing about silly &&&& and the supporting guys wanted shots/recognition ) and last but not least no team in nba history has ever won 4 nba titles in a row.
0:40 , nice glasswork.
And let you hear them talk about Ben Wallace online, they say he's trash and was only great at defense and only dunks.
They're still blaming Kobe for this. The 04 Pistons were just too good on D.
Kobe himself said it was his fault on the sit down with Shaq so there’s that lol
@@perkyharvin4437 Taking responsibility is different from taking blame
Who made this video? Gooood Job!!!!!
Nothing easy, every point had to be earned. God do I miss this era where grown men did actually battle day in and day out.
'04 Pistons are soo underrated
LINDSEY FRIGGEN HUNTER! Look at him frontin' Kobe!
The last time my favorite NBA team won a championship 😒
This was the time the pistons were
relevant.
Good ol’ times
Lack of offensive options from the rest of the Lakers made it difficult for Kobe and Shaq. :( Streetball defense is much more tight than Detriot's, leaving the perimeter open just to double team
Around the 15:19 mark, the Wallaces, maybe the best defensive big man duo ever... double team BRIAN SCALABRINE in the post. Theyd efinitely respect the Red Mamba. XD
Dann thats crazy
Hint: The answer was in the thumbnail. Because Ben Wallace could lock up anyone, everyone else was free to be their best selves.
Aside from Great Defense the opposing teams lack offensive skills like today too. Wouldn't have to worry much defending the perimeter, they're always going under which packs the paint.
The 3pt% is almost the same from 2004 (34%) and 2024 (36%). The volume of the shooting from outside increased, not the skill. They don't shoot that much better now, they just shoot more
@@pandsanthi9072 not true at all. The difficulty and variety of 3pt shots are way higher now. If guys took the same type of static shots like they used to, the % would be way higher.
@@praneshj1578 teams are designed differently today. Now most of them die for the 3pt, that's why we have more variety in this part of the game. But even with this in mind, the percentage is almost the same, and this is a fact. The players are not more skilled, they just speciallized in a different aspect of the game. And coinsidering the %, the majority is not even that good in this
I personally believe this is counterproductive for most of the teams. Denver for exemple takes less 3pt shots and is arguably the best team in the league without a single all star besides the Joker. This shows the level of skill most teams are right now
The early 2000s was coming off the illegal defense rule change so most of the league was still built more for one on one defense. Not committing to a double team and leaving guys half open to put extra pressure on the ball was against the rules, so outside shooting wasn't as important. Like, if they changed the rules now then the next 5 years would be crazy because nobody can guard one on one and they rely on the extra pressure from help defenders.
Watching this perfectly illustrates why it's stupid to compare teams/players from different eras. The game is CLEARLY played/officiated and approached completely different just 20 years ago let alone 30 or 40.
I enjoyed watching this Pistons team crumble. Was so salty they beat the Lakers, that I literally won $300 bucks that the Squrs would end them. And boom seeing them get older and weaker while the East took alot of their aggression on them was a pleasure. They dished it out and then got their butts kicked but went down fighting
So gotta give them that
Why didn't discuss 2014 Spurs
every play i watch this i feel like current nba would call a foul , which is lame
Just imagine if the offense was better omg the pistons would’ve been disgusting
Yes, and that happened in 05 and beyond. They ruled the Eastern Conference for a while because of it.
The best defensive team
What's the fewest points scored in the
NBA Finals?
June 7, 1998: Jazz 54, Bulls 98. Oh well nothing see here 🤔
well shaq avg 27 and 11 with 63fg % if kobe give him the ball more he would avg more:)
Malone getting hurt didn't help either
Kobe took 13 shots in this game. Did you want single digits?
@@nikosvault in that finals kobe shoot under 40% fg and under 20% for 3s and yes i dont want him to force shots whan he cant hit anything
@@ziginaigraagain...he took 13 shots and they got blown out. Shaq took the same amount of shots as he did the rest of the playoffs and regular season.
@@nikosvault dont lie kobe took 113shots in that finals (22avg per game) ,shaq took 84(16avg)
we got guys dropping 70 in the league now and they held LA to 75 😭
love to see this defend vs today 5 out spacing
Real basketball when it was a man's game. 04 Pistons greatest team in NBA history.
This was a failure of roster construction more than a team winning defensive battles. Tons of free double teams because the pressure release player is either poorly spaced or unreliable from 3.
If this Pistons team drafted Melo, they would've won more than 1 chip. And for sure Melo's career trajectory would've been different coz Larry Brown wouldn't have tolerated him slacking off on defense or being a blackhole on offense. Brown was infamously a stickler for "playing the right way" as AI found out the hard way.
Ben Taylor bout to be lakers head coach lmfaoooooo
2017 warriors is smoking this defense.
Your videos are always uplifting and energizing! Thank you for your creativity and warmth.🍏🎯🐣
💯💯
the lack of spacing is wild
The Pistons was just the Laker’s kryptonite.
If the 2004 Lakers had a bunch of 40% 3 point shooters, they could’ve stood a better chance against Detroit but the Pistons exposed the lack of shooters that the Lakers had, plus they capitalized on Lakers being mid after Kobe,Shaq,GP and especially an injured Malone.Probably the weakest supporting cast of the Shaq and Kobe era after GP & Malone
First we like, then we watch
you can’t play defense like this in this modern nba style of play.
Ben Wallace is pretty strong. Usain Bolt is kinda fast. Steph Curry can kinda shoot.
The Big Nasty didn’t even really have that much size on Bryant. He did have plenty of nasty though.
This is what My Career is like on superstar/hof
3 min in, 0-6
Honestly, if they just picked up the ball, stiff armed the defender, swung elbows, and then cry to the ref like LeGOAT, everyone would be scoring.
I wonder why more people dont do that? It's almost like it's illegal or something 😂
The lack of 3 point shooting just clogged up everything they were the real deal nothing easy nothing
This is why I get irritated when people bring up Kobe’s shooting percentage. The league was still physical when Kobe was at his best.
This is a video to show to people that says Kobe is the Goat.
Can this team win against the Durant warriors with a spread out offense? The 04 Lakers cant punish them because they didnt have 3pt shooters on the floor. 04 rules What do you think?
Durants amazing skills would be nullified by 6' 6" Draymond Green and Andre Igoudala trying to defend 6' 9" Ben Wallace and 6' 11" Rasheed Wallace. How does GSW get rebounds?
What a joy to watch real basketball. Tactics, pressure, skill, mind games…not an overhyped “shoot-around”.
A diehard Spurs fan, don’t hate this generation of Lakers, not a fan of the Pistons per se…but, this is still my NBA finals I’ve seen in forty years!
And a pleasure to watch this breakdown…thank you “Thinking Basketball”!!!