Their routine had more intricate foot movements. First place was more upper body rock, no wheres near as technical, yet judging was rigged. These guys should have won. 💕💕💕
Not even top 5 for me. They made multiple errors in both of the compulsory dances, they had the easiest OD out of all the couples in the top 10, and this free dance was skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. And as Tracy Wilson would often say in the commentary box (except for Canadian teams that she personally liked it seemed), it's a lot easier to skate that way as opposed to skating within more complex handholds.
im not saying they should have won, they had flaws . to my mind silver or bronze, but their abilities shouldn't have been lost in the mix of judging misconduct
@@chantalseguin5024 Bourne/Kraatz already had lost the medal there from first compulsories. The golden waltz and tango had visible errors (Victor didn't execute his counters; Shae Lynn didn't twizzle) but the major mistake happened at the OD dance, the jive. The lack of content of the entire dance, the huge mistake in the final lift (Shae Lynn touching the ice during dismount and stumble) and also, the poor technique in edges in the few steps they did, were generously marked (3rd in the segment) but still judges denied them a climb in the ranks. They arrived here knowing the scenario to expect and why. And also skated with details that justify their absent in podium. Look at the holdings, done completely side by side and not variations in edges. In some parts they lost unison (look at the first and second step sequences) and also, there's no enough speed despite the nature of the content. You can look at this angle ruclips.net/video/A6im9EhEI2I/видео.html Shae Lynn hit the board during this performance after losing control in the first steps so, they had lost the medal anyway.
They were so ahead of their time in terms of choreography and style...they had to compete against the old (Russian) school of thought that ice dance was ballet on ice and these guys brought the rock n roll in a big loud way...without them there'd be no Virtue and Moir
What a wonderful program even after all this time! I feel they deserved much higher marks but the judging was rigged. I think after awhile it was too disheartening for them💕
lol)) ISU rule book said that skating within close dance holds positions are more difficult than skating side by side. So, one team has a dance skated almost entirely side by side and it is marked (for some reason) actually higher than the teams that showcased required and more difficult dance holds. Is it unfair? Yes, only this unfairness was toward Anisina \Peizerat' free dance and not toward Bourne and Kraatz'. On top of it, there were 2 previous parts of the competition in which Bourne and Kraatz also weren't better than the competitors (particularly in OD which was just terrible). So how could there be any complaints about judging?
They consistently skate everything either hand to hand or side by side. I can't see how the judges could give them good marks for skating like that when you consider the lack of content.
I actually think tenure free dance was an actual dance ... not like the the others .l they were robbed of many medals in the 90s due to the ice dancing hierarchy
Their programs always draw audiences in, but to be very honest most of their programs were very simple and lack of content. Maybe their programs and skills somehow improved in later years, but I still feel that they were a bit over-rated just as Lobacheva/Averbukh. Both of these two pairs were good performers but not top notched ice dancers.
I think part of the problem was their coaching. When B&K showed up to the 1995 Worlds with Klimova & Ponomarenko as their coaches, I thought their improvement was very evident. But shortly after those worlds, they split with K&P and started skating under Natalia Dubova instead. And I think that was a big mistake because they regressed very badly after that. Dubova was probably the greatest ice dance coach in the late 80s and early 90s but her empire started to crumble after being at the helm of that ugly situation with not only Klimova & Ponomarenko but also Usova, Zhulin, Grishuk, Platov, Navka, and Gezalian. Her work started to become more and more disappointing afterwards. And with time, she sort of became irrelevant. Her last contribution to ice dance that I recall was leading Chait & Sakhnovsky to a super-controversial and IMO very undeserved bronze medal at the 2002 Worlds.
@@gk891 the fact that Dubova did not train as well in Canada as she did in SSSR could also be due to the fact that she may have worked with some great assistant coach back home, but this coach stayed back. Most of the other Russian teams she brought with her abroad were already with good basic skating skills, but Bourne and Kraatz needed exactly these basic skills from her. Well, and all this drama with Zhulin did not help either....
@@MsRumex That was definitely part of it (her assistant coaches). And the drama with Zhulin definitely did not help! I also think watching both Klimova & Ponomarenko and Grishuk & Platov leave her and become Olympics champions under different trainers may have been the final nail in the coffin for her.
Hardly. They made multiple errors in both compulsory dances, they had the easiest OD out of all of the couples in the top 10 (plus she fell over at the end on the back somersault), and this free dance was skated entirely side by side. I had them at around 6th place.
@@chantalseguin5024 So i guess for people like you, all of Bourne & Kraatz's errors in both compulsory dances (they made 3 in the Golden Waltz and 6 in the Argentine Tango) and their complete and utter lack of content in the OD and FD should be disregarded. And besides, the alleged collusion with the French judge supposedly happened in the pairs event at the 2002 Olympics. And if there was a collusion, it brought about a better result because Bourne & Kraatz had no business being anywhere near the podium. They should've been outside of the top 5 being that they were the only team that could not skate their counters or twizzles properly in the compulsories and their OD and FD had almost zero content.
@@chantalseguin5024 I wasn't aware that unfairly awarding a team like Bourne & Kraatz a medal in spite of making multiple errors and skating programs with no content was common sense.
@@marysylvie2012 That B&K should not have placed 3rd in the free dance ahead of A&P. B&K should have placed much lower in the FD due to the lack of content.
This sport has rules and skating side by side always was considered much easier than skating in closed dance holds facing each other. So, taking this into consideration, how could they have been robbed? Besides, competition had 3 parts. And they had extremely weak OD in that season and weren't the best in Compulsory dances. So, how could anyone expect to win if neither of their CD, OD or FD is the beet and most difficult ?
Да, современное ФК далеко ушло, катают, как гвозди вбивают... и где хваленое скольжение? Особенно партнёр с деревянными ножками 🤦🏼♂️ Данная постановка считается образцом Ирландского танца, но как-то сомнительно 🤔 В общем ретро есть ретро 🤪
ну не знаю для кого она образец ирланского танца. Тут слишком много катания друг возле друга , да и нет реберности. В общем такой себе образец (другие пары (как по мне) в разы лучше адаптировали ирландские танцы к фигурному катанию (именно с учетом всех сложностей последнего) чем они
Да, согласна. Их очень хвалили, возможно, за обязательные танцы. Решила посмотреть. Всё как-то неубедительно: и скорость, и хореография, и синхрон. Нет харизмы в танце. В скольжении не разбираюсь, но когда вижу Грищук-Платова, чувствую разницу. Уникальная пара, необыкновенные!
@@КираМикоян обязательные танцы у них тоже не очень были. Хотя они и перешли к Дубовой, которая считалась замечательным тренером именно техники и обязательных танцев (те же Климова и Пономаренко, которых она воспитала, или Платов) но и она не смогла сделать обязательные танцы канадской пары хорошими. Да, реберность у них была всегда хорошей, но все остальное было так себе . Ну и почти все пары Дубовой не отличались большой скоростью - не было ее и у канадцев. Правда когда они к Тарасовой перешли (в 2000 кажись) - они стали лучше и быстрее. Не скажу что супер- но лучше чем они когда либо были. Ну а хвалила их родная канадская пресса. И мне кажется перехвалила и захвалила. И еще, мне кажется, им не пошел в прок тот факт, что они скоро стали бронзовыми призерами ЧМ (который в канаде тогда проходил). Они как то остановились в развитии после этого (а вот их тогдашние конкуренты (Анисина и Пейзера) наоборот с каждым годом прибавляли -и в том олимпийском сезоне просто не оставили судьям никакого шанса не дать им бронзу
@@MsRumex спасибо Вам большое за подробный ответ. Так хочется, чтобы у наших современных танцевальных пар были такие же техника и драйв, как у Грищук-Платова. Но, конечно, у каждой пары своё лицо... И тренер.
Lol). This dance maybe "good " but to be medal contender it has to be DIFFICULT. Unfortunately, it wasn't difficult enough. Together with very very simple OD , mistakes in CD that they made, any kind of medals would have been not deserved
![[HD] Surya Bonaly - 1998 Nagano Olympics - FS - "The Four Seasons"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XVnRAWkyP5M/mqdefault.jpg)
![[HD] Bourne & Kraatz - 1998 Nagano Olympics - Exhibition - "Sometimes When We Touch"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BHXStKDaO64/mqdefault.jpg)
I have shared 4K60P version of this movie. Much clearer, much smoother than this.
ruclips.net/video/0Tu7IxoRafM/видео.html
One of the best Ice Dancing routines I’ve ever seen. To keep up the speed, just wow. 👏🏽
Such a fun pair, always interesting programs
Super❤❤
My favorite dance team of all time. Love their deep edges and hydroblading.
Loved this program so much.
I saw them perform this dance at part of Elvis Stryo's show in Toronto many years ago. Beautiful performance.
Their routine had more intricate foot movements. First place was more upper body rock, no wheres near as technical, yet judging was rigged. These guys should have won. 💕💕💕
Not even top 5 for me. They made multiple errors in both of the compulsory dances, they had the easiest OD out of all the couples in the top 10, and this free dance was skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. And as Tracy Wilson would often say in the commentary box (except for Canadian teams that she personally liked it seemed), it's a lot easier to skate that way as opposed to skating within more complex handholds.
im not saying they should have won, they had flaws . to my mind silver or bronze, but their abilities shouldn't have been lost in the mix of judging misconduct
@@chantalseguin5024 Bourne/Kraatz already had lost the medal there from first compulsories. The golden waltz and tango had visible errors (Victor didn't execute his counters; Shae Lynn didn't twizzle) but the major mistake happened at the OD dance, the jive. The lack of content of the entire dance, the huge mistake in the final lift (Shae Lynn touching the ice during dismount and stumble) and also, the poor technique in edges in the few steps they did, were generously marked (3rd in the segment) but still judges denied them a climb in the ranks. They arrived here knowing the scenario to expect and why. And also skated with details that justify their absent in podium. Look at the holdings, done completely side by side and not variations in edges. In some parts they lost unison (look at the first and second step sequences) and also, there's no enough speed despite the nature of the content. You can look at this angle ruclips.net/video/A6im9EhEI2I/видео.html Shae Lynn hit the board during this performance after losing control in the first steps so, they had lost the medal anyway.
@@rolandgreen7484 Yup. Tracy could really be a piece of work sometimes.
Probably my favourite Bourne/Kraatz routine. Too bad they were marked by the old judging system. Loved their footwork.
their placement would have been even worse with the new judging)
Ils sont vibrants, dynamiques. Quel merveilleux programme! Tout plein de difficultés! Et fort bien executé!
Still watch this. Amazing
Such a great performance.
They were so ahead of their time in terms of choreography and style...they had to compete against the old (Russian) school of thought that ice dance was ballet on ice and these guys brought the rock n roll in a big loud way...without them there'd be no Virtue and Moir
Teams like Torvill & Dean and Grishuk & Platov were skating rock n roll years earlier.
Beautiful routine! It’s hard to do that kind of footwork in the first place, let alone while on ice!
Очень задорно,четко,красиво исполнено,классно!
What a wonderful program even after all this time! I feel they deserved much higher marks but the judging was rigged. I think after awhile it was too disheartening for them💕
They skated this entire free dance hand to hand or side by side which also highlighted their less than great unison.
lol)) ISU rule book said that skating within close dance holds positions are more difficult than skating side by side. So, one team has a dance skated almost entirely side by side and it is marked (for some reason) actually higher than the teams that showcased required and more difficult dance holds. Is it unfair? Yes, only this unfairness was toward Anisina \Peizerat' free dance and not toward Bourne and Kraatz'. On top of it, there were 2 previous parts of the competition in which Bourne and Kraatz also weren't better than the competitors (particularly in OD which was just terrible).
So how could there be any complaints about judging?
Rigged judging for sure.
помню этот номер! шикарные!
Well done!
Superb execution!! Boy were they ever robbed.
Just because something simple is good executed, doesn't mean that it deserves medal.
One of the best in history.
They were so robbed, more than once!
They consistently skate everything either hand to hand or side by side. I can't see how the judges could give them good marks for skating like that when you consider the lack of content.
@@gk891 Lmao clown
@@mariel4085 What did I say that was incorrect?
C'est quoi ce choix de costume immonde et de musique ??? la ringardise pure.
lilou laszlo Ils performaient sur de la gigue irlandaise et le vert est une couleur populaire en Irlande. Franchement!
ce commentaire était inutile
I actually think tenure free dance was an actual dance ... not like the the others .l they were robbed of many medals in the 90s due to the ice dancing hierarchy
One of the Best Ice Dance Skating teams. They were robbed of so many gold medals because of politics. How sad!
Technical merits 5.6, 5.7,....tell me the judging wasn't rigged!
Their programs always draw audiences in, but to be very honest most of their programs were very simple and lack of content. Maybe their programs and skills somehow improved in later years, but I still feel that they were a bit over-rated just as Lobacheva/Averbukh. Both of these two pairs were good performers but not top notched ice dancers.
I think part of the problem was their coaching. When B&K showed up to the 1995 Worlds with Klimova & Ponomarenko as their coaches, I thought their improvement was very evident. But shortly after those worlds, they split with K&P and started skating under Natalia Dubova instead. And I think that was a big mistake because they regressed very badly after that. Dubova was probably the greatest ice dance coach in the late 80s and early 90s but her empire started to crumble after being at the helm of that ugly situation with not only Klimova & Ponomarenko but also Usova, Zhulin, Grishuk, Platov, Navka, and Gezalian. Her work started to become more and more disappointing afterwards. And with time, she sort of became irrelevant. Her last contribution to ice dance that I recall was leading Chait & Sakhnovsky to a super-controversial and IMO very undeserved bronze medal at the 2002 Worlds.
@@gk891 the fact that Dubova did not train as well in Canada as she did in SSSR could also be due to the fact that she may have worked with some great assistant coach back home, but this coach stayed back. Most of the other Russian teams she brought with her abroad were already with good basic skating skills, but Bourne and Kraatz needed exactly these basic skills from her. Well, and all this drama with Zhulin did not help either....
@@MsRumex That was definitely part of it (her assistant coaches). And the drama with Zhulin definitely did not help! I also think watching both Klimova & Ponomarenko and Grishuk & Platov leave her and become Olympics champions under different trainers may have been the final nail in the coffin for her.
программа не олимпийская
Definitely agree. Way too much of this dance was skated side by side.
they really were robbed
Hardly. They made multiple errors in both compulsory dances, they had the easiest OD out of all of the couples in the top 10 (plus she fell over at the end on the back somersault), and this free dance was skated entirely side by side. I had them at around 6th place.
@@gk891 everyone knows there was collusion between the French and Russian judges. its public knowledge.
@@chantalseguin5024 So i guess for people like you, all of Bourne & Kraatz's errors in both compulsory dances (they made 3 in the Golden Waltz and 6 in the Argentine Tango) and their complete and utter lack of content in the OD and FD should be disregarded. And besides, the alleged collusion with the French judge supposedly happened in the pairs event at the 2002 Olympics. And if there was a collusion, it brought about a better result because Bourne & Kraatz had no business being anywhere near the podium. They should've been outside of the top 5 being that they were the only team that could not skate their counters or twizzles properly in the compulsories and their OD and FD had almost zero content.
@@gk891 yes for people like me and all the rest with common sense.
@@chantalseguin5024 I wasn't aware that unfairly awarding a team like Bourne & Kraatz a medal in spite of making multiple errors and skating programs with no content was common sense.
👍😍❤️❤️🫶👏👏👏👏💐💐
Just a pity they were placed in front of the french.
Un programme propre bien exécuté mais pas si original et pas tant de difficultés que cela. Pas d'émotions, pas de vibrations.
Jimmy Seraphin, what do you mean?
@@marysylvie2012 That B&K should not have placed 3rd in the free dance ahead of A&P. B&K should have placed much lower in the FD due to the lack of content.
En effet. Penser que ce programme plaisant mais très moyen a été placé devant le chef d'oeuvre d'A/P, c'est rude.
They were robbed big time!!!!!! That’s why this sport is a jokes! Politics suck!!!
This sport has rules and skating side by side always was considered much easier than skating in closed dance holds facing each other. So, taking this into consideration, how could they have been robbed? Besides, competition had 3 parts. And they had extremely weak OD in that season and weren't the best in Compulsory dances. So, how could anyone expect to win if neither of their CD, OD or FD is the beet and most difficult ?
Да, современное ФК далеко ушло, катают, как гвозди вбивают... и где хваленое скольжение? Особенно партнёр с деревянными ножками 🤦🏼♂️ Данная постановка считается образцом Ирландского танца, но как-то сомнительно 🤔 В общем ретро есть ретро 🤪
ну не знаю для кого она образец ирланского танца. Тут слишком много катания друг возле друга , да и нет реберности. В общем такой себе образец (другие пары (как по мне) в разы лучше адаптировали ирландские танцы к фигурному катанию (именно с учетом всех сложностей последнего) чем они
Да, согласна. Их очень хвалили, возможно, за обязательные танцы. Решила посмотреть. Всё как-то неубедительно: и скорость, и хореография, и синхрон. Нет харизмы в танце. В скольжении не разбираюсь, но когда вижу Грищук-Платова, чувствую разницу. Уникальная пара, необыкновенные!
@@КираМикоян обязательные танцы у них тоже не очень были. Хотя они и перешли к Дубовой, которая считалась замечательным тренером именно техники и обязательных танцев (те же Климова и Пономаренко, которых она воспитала, или Платов) но и она не смогла сделать обязательные танцы канадской пары хорошими. Да, реберность у них была всегда хорошей, но все остальное было так себе . Ну и почти все пары Дубовой не отличались большой скоростью - не было ее и у канадцев.
Правда когда они к Тарасовой перешли (в 2000 кажись) - они стали лучше и быстрее. Не скажу что супер- но лучше чем они когда либо были.
Ну а хвалила их родная канадская пресса. И мне кажется перехвалила и захвалила. И еще, мне кажется, им не пошел в прок тот факт, что они скоро стали бронзовыми призерами ЧМ (который в канаде тогда проходил). Они как то остановились в развитии после этого (а вот их тогдашние конкуренты (Анисина и Пейзера) наоборот с каждым годом прибавляли -и в том олимпийском сезоне просто не оставили судьям никакого шанса не дать им бронзу
@@MsRumex спасибо Вам большое за подробный ответ. Так хочется, чтобы у наших современных танцевальных пар были такие же техника и драйв, как у Грищук-Платова. Но, конечно, у каждой пары своё лицо... И тренер.
This dance is pretty good. They could be at least second in this Olympics...🤔
Lol). This dance maybe "good " but to be medal contender it has to be DIFFICULT. Unfortunately, it wasn't difficult enough. Together with very very simple OD , mistakes in CD that they made, any kind of medals would have been not deserved