Always funny when 40K fans call other things ripoffs, because 40K is just history and popular culture put into a blender :D it is hard to find a single thing in that franchise that isn't a reference or a 'legally distinct' version of something else
I remember one dude trying to convince me that helldivers is warhammer 40k ripoff. And when I said that original helldivers were starship troopers parody, he started explaining how starship troopers movie was originally supposed to be warhammer 40k movie. AND SO STARSHIP TROOPERS IS A WARHAMMER RIPOFF. As a 40k fan, I can confidently say that 40k fans are really really really dang annoying
@nichodemus10 yes. Even showed both warhammer when 40k first game came out and when starship troopers novel was bublished. And he was like “oh you got me wrong I meant the movie THATS a ripoff”. But the movie is made AFTER A DAMN NOVEL(with some differences thats for sure but still). It feels like there is one thing on their mind and its warhammer and if something isnt warhammer they try to convince everyone that it is
Especially egregious example is reaction of wh fandom to Leagues of Wotan infantry being absolutely obviously ripped off from exactly Marines of Starcraft. Reaction was "woah they stole their shit back!" this is ridiculous, just compare space marine, sc marine and wotann infantryman, to see who resemble who in what proportion. If you can "steal your shit back" and its not a copy of what you claim being stolen from you in the first place, then alleged theft is made up. Also lovely how wh fans hate GW and troll it for stealing shit from everything, but only until they have to defend claims that someone stole something from GW. They instantly turn from ironic and critical fanbase into blind worshippers. I love gently both Warhammer (all three branches, including Sigmar thing, it have strengths and weaknesses over FB) and Starcraft, but "Blizzard stole some shit" cultists are absolutely disgraceful, only they can temporarily make me act like i hate Warhammer despite me being actually fan of it with huge loads of fan content.
I love the timeline graphics used here, which really illustrates just how layered science fiction influences have been on one another for the last century. A very well made video!
The concept of assimilation is also present in Alien, the xenomorphs take half of their DNA from whatever creature they infest. They can be based on humans, dogs or any other living creature that is large enough. This is clearly the ''inspiration'' of the genestealers (the name alone says it all), who operate in exactly the same way...
Finally, someone said it, I've been fighting this misconception for YEARS if not a DECADE (or more) at this point, now I can finally link this video as it has more credibility than my word.
I'm glad you made this video in English. That rumor was very widespread in the English communities too. BTW, that's good English man. You have a bit of a London accent mixed with Mexico xD. But still very good 👌
@@The-jy3yq Laughs in REAL WORLD medieval and renaisance period. And I know you didn't look up bevor, because the first thing that shows up for me is literally a medieval piece of armour from the 16th century.
@@maryrosetran5109I don't think the video creator was saying either series took the collar idea from the other, he was just admitting that they are similar, because the context was about their similarities.
@@flamerollerx01Agreed, but that's not what I was reacting to. I was reacting to the statement saying: "Guess where that comes from?" while showing an illustration of a Mobile Infantry armour (refer to time stamp). My statement actually supports the creator's argument that neither copied each other, since the bevor existed hundreds of years before either franchises.
I think Warhammer fans are being very defensive for no reason. Their franchise is still making new games and other content, whereas starcraft is effectively a dead franchise at this time. I prefer Starcraft personally, but that's because I grew up with it and sc2, as well as wc2/3 and WoW. Hopefully blizzard will do something awesome with the starcraft universe, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll probably continue playing space marine 2 in the future. I literally stopped after the first event to wait for a friend to co-op with (the part you can't play in co-op) and he has been playing other games instead. Warhammer is awesome, you have nothing to get defensive about.
Lots of warhammer fans are old guard, from a time when it was one of the most niche hobbies even for nerds. Couple that with the grimdark aesthetic attracting edgelords who take themselves way too seriously, and the fascist aesthetics that are meant to be a parody but end up attracting actual fascists with bad comprehension skills, and you get a recipe for an extremely annoying group of elitists that turns the hobby/franchise into their entire personality. They give us a real bad name sometimes. I happened to believe myself in the whole myth that starcraft and warcraft were gonna be warhammer games but didn't get the license (hell, the warcraft 3 gryphon rider iirc even has a little nod to 40k as a joke in their voice lines), but i never treated that as a bad thing or a ripoff - they took their (mostly visual) inspiration and ran with it and did their own thing, like any other artist. similarly, I know for a fact that a lot of the helldivers devs are warhammer fans and i believe they took some inspiration as well (I mean, you can't really help it to a degree, taking inspo from things you like), but to claim its a ripoff is insane. But these fans develop a superiority complex dependent on "their hobby" being the coolest edgiest most serioustest thing that is the bestest and everyone is jealous of how cool and edgy and serious they are because they're the best. It's so annoying
@Xazamas isn't also an actual archaic version of "elder" in english or some other germanic language? I seem to recall seeing it used that way in a completely separate context from warhammer
The Fandom... It's always the Fandom who twisted the truth to become the myth. Thus becoming the source of toxicity in that Fandom. Thank you for making this video. This might enlighten some reasonable fans but clearly not the zealous fan who got brainwashed by the myth. .... ... Damn.. I feel like I started talking like Jim but ended up like Zeratul.
barring the enslavement, allowing prisoners to go only after being paid for them was big thing in medieval Europe like some minor wars between lords were fought because of ransoms that they could take for captured knights ransoms also made up a substantial percentage of profits for the winner (not the biggest by any means, but usually from 5 to 20%)
Every fanbase has enemies without -- people who look down on or insult the fandom and work -- but the worst enemies are those within. I left Star Wars games because I couldn't stand the worst factions in its fandom. It's just not fun for me anymore. Warhammer apparently has some very obnoxious people trying to represent it. This is not a problem with the game. This is not a problem with the lore. This is a problem with the fanbase. Or more likely, a small but loud faction inside the fanbase. The problem is, it's hard to shut down a group like that with logic & facts.
@@AtticusKarpenter The person who introduced me to Warhammer told me, in no uncertain terms, that Starcraft was just junk that stole all its ideas from Warhammer. This was a massive turn-off. I ended getting into Star Wars X-Wing instead. That guy turned out to have many, many personality issues, and I've always associated him with the 40k crowd's starcraft haters. But other than him, most of the Warhammer players I've encountered at game stores have been fantastic people, so I've always assumed the starcraft hate is just from a cult of a few very loud man-children.
Do wonder since it pretty noticeable from the mouth movements but was the English voice a voice over in editing? Extremely insightful and well put together, never knew a ton of things brought up here about warhammers creation and inspirations
@double2254 yeah as explained in the first minute of the video that this was dubbed cause the original version was made in spanish. Thanks for the comment mate :)
@@StarCraftExplained Gotcha had to watch this in a couple of different smaller sessions so must have forgotten that detail, this is really well put together so cudos to everyone involved
11:49 It's apt to not compare SC2 designs to 40K's, as SC1 Marine armor was wildly different...and it resembled Orks more than anything in WH 😂 It'd be more fair to compare SC1 designs to 40K's edition and artwork of the time (like the somewhat early Heresy books and like the 1st and 2nd edition that were around at the time) Also the Marine design persisted all the way through the beta, which was, to my knowledge, more than half a year before release
I hate when people say that marines are ripoff of space marines. Their armor is literally made like a modern spacesuit but if it was designed for war. It is a very cool concept and has nothing to do with space marines religious high tech power armor but people don‘t acknowledge it at all
They're both derivative of similar background sources but a lot of what blizzard did was take existing formulas and polish them which is where some of the plagiarism meme comes from. The biggest one is the ork / eldar thing to fight the necron and the protoss and zerg being created races. But thats fairly generic scifi, also also hur dur space marines.
One more thing, StarCraft imo has more "references" with Babylon 5 (which was contemporary at the time and very popular with StarCraft's creator's age demographic) than with 40K, especially the art design. A lot of 40K fans must be zoomers who weren't around in the 90s.
really the League of Votann armor design is more of a ripoff of starcraft than anything in starcraft is a ripoff of 40k (both being surrent day space suit designs turned into pwoer armor with huge pauldrons, especially notable on the helmet.. and the Votann take that design to the extreme with even their vehicles looking like armored moon rovers)
I love how people kept peddling that complete LIE that StarCraft was supposed to be a 40K game in early development, that is some Mandele-esque "I can't possibly be wrong" silliness that I've had to correct many, many, many times. WARCRAFT 1 was originally intended on being a Warhammer FANTASY game, but THAT deal fell through and to my knowledge there was NEVER another parallel ironic deal that followed it. people for some reason mixed that up with StarCraft and make asses out of themselves in so doing.
Warcraft is less like warhammer fantasy than starcraft is to 40k. Just because the guy only talked about blizzard wanting to make a warhammer fantasy game doesnt mean blizzard didnt want to make a 40k game
sooo... basically all the simmilarities between WH40k and SC are either from their common inspiration or (in case of closer and more direct simmilarities) became part of WH40k after SC was released. Makes sense, 40k is combination of other IPs and ideas with very little originality.
Well. Im sure they had some all powerful being in mind(because secret mission in brood war). But they didn‘t bother planning Amon at all and so retconned anything connected to him to make him more scary(Brood war Kerrigan transformation into wings of liberty Keerigan, who was INFLUENCED by amon)
@@panchoxxlocoxx9638 I think the Hybrid were always part of the plan, but there's no indication that Amon was involved in that mission. Duran was in charge of making the hybrid, and he could easily have been the mastermind at that point.
Pretty sure the source was this Warcraft being intially Warhammer thing, but they got no license (which has actual evidence, as you pointed out), but people simply conflated the games since both pairs (Wacraft - Warhammer and Starcraft - 40k) have some (mainly at the first glance) aesthethic simmilarities and are from same companies. The fact that 40k is more popular didn't help the same (I guess some people hear "Warhammer" and assume just 40k and nothing more).
Very good video! I find it funny that this is such a pervasive rumor that both Blizzard and GW have tried to be more unique about there designs since then. If I recall correctly, the reason the Hydralisk design in SC2 has 3 talons is because they wanted it to look distinct compared to the Tyranids Scything Talons.
I think Europeans overestimate how much culture we Americans are exposed to from Europe, especially in the past. I had never heard of warhammer until well after starcraft and even warcraft 3! I was introduced to the game theough a firend of a friends brother! He gave me a pirated copy of warhammer 40k: dawn of war. Warhammer is far more of a European franchise and has only recently become culturally relevant here. It was certainly a thing here, but it was quite niche.
You know that abaut 95% more of it is from europe ? It just a lot is stuff old to point when some american speak today more like people from x part of europe 100-200 years ago and the same region today have more difrends betwen it language and orginal than american version and orginal
FINALLY someone tackled this issue, ignorant smug wh40k fans are insuffering. Especially with things like "Blizzard never created anything original" on wh40k-fans-dominated 1d6 wiki. Yeeeeeeeaah, sure....
Thank you for the video. I had heard q different version of this that (in my opinion) is less negative. Where early in development starcraft was going to BE a Warhammer game but something something licensing, then starcraft was left with the bare skeleton of the factions. human, tech alien and swarm alien. It felt realistic enough that I never questioned.
@@StarCraftExplained Dude I dont know what fake truth you made up in these videos but anyone with two braincells can see Starcraft completely ripped off Warhammer.
Maybe you should use more than two brain cells from time to time and you would understand that after the 2000s it was precisely when Warhammer imitated all the concept art of Starcraft.
@@Konranjyoutai Wait, you "don't know what fake truth" then u didnt watch the video, therefore we can't talk. Come back after watching it and make some valid arguments.
As a SC and Wh40k fan from 00s, a can assure you that it all started tgen Dawn of War released it was clamed Star Craft ripp-off, and Warhammer was obscure IP.
Too. Loud. Music. It's uncomfortable to listen, yes, StarCraft Music are good, but we on this video to listen the author, not to listen Music with author on background.
How did Bob Fitch does not know about Warhammer, then earlier Blizzard considered WarCraft to be Warhammer game? This video is good, but in some cases it goes to far in denying inspration, maybe because of frustration of Wh fans behavior.
OK. I have a lot of objections but the main one has to do with your logic especially when discussing the influences by Starship Troopers. By your logic, Warcraft could not have possibly copied Warhammer Fantasy because orks were invented earlier by Tolkien. But it is a fact that Warcraft 1's early development was influenced by Warhammer Fantasy. You point that out yourself. So ?
So? Starcraft Terran infantry very palpably closer to Starship Troopers than to anything Warhammer 40k have (be it Imperial Guard infantry - not "space" and armed with laser analogue of bolt action rifles; or Space Marines - supersoldiers-knights in shining armor with automatic grenade launchers disguised as assault rifles. While both Troopers and Terran Marines are space dudes in vacuum protection suits, with not-that-futuristic firearms)
Aesthethic-wise orcs in Warcraft anf Warhammer are both more simmilar to each other than any of them are to Tolkien orcs (which are mostly gray-skinned and generally SMALLER than humans, the stronger ones were comparable to humans, they also don't have the long teeth coming from the jaw - this trait was present in early DnD illustrations however, with its more pig-like orcs) however, its important to mention that initially they were more different, Warcraft orcs became aesthethically more simmilar to Warhammer gradually, becoming more and more "massive" over time. Also while their (rough) looks was converging, their characterization is completly different in every possible way outside of them being "brutish fighters" (Warhammer orcs being more joke race, while Warcraft goes for the more serious and human-like approach)
Моё мнение таково: Вархаммер идёт на три буквы за то что украл дизайн тиранидов со Старкрафтовских зергов. Все копируют друг у друга и всем на это наплевать. Только фанатики самой копирующей франшизы (я про фанатов Вахи) ущемляются с этого, причём на пустом месте.
It’s the idea that warhammer hardly has a leg to stand on with copying allegations considering they got their inception from a mismatch of copying other ips and real world places. I mean the world of warhammer fantasy is literally just our world with Britain on a giant donut. Warhammer 40k was just a giant spoof of dune and starship troopers down the the messages of the stories it was trying to tell.
What I have been saying all the time. However, only die hard fans who can’t see reason perpetuate this. So it is important to talk about the propaganda machine GW has cultivated
ill be honest alot of this debunk is just not up to a quality i can respect. i get the core message, and the Starcraft Warhammer link was always just a rumor to me. but personally i want to point out a couple things that yelled at me. the first part where he talks about contract law being air tight so no way GW could pull out with blizzard? contracts especially for IP can have clauses where the owner of the IP can pull out if they dont like the quality of the work or something else they can specify in the contract. When he compairs the starcraft races to the warhammer races and just says (in my own words) nah man they dont look anything alike! i disagree, they for sure arnt carbon coppies, but the Terran of starcraft can easily be taken as interpretations of the Imperium from 40k. If you want to you can easily compare the Zerg and the Tyranids. the most far fetched comparison is the Protoss to 40k is probably the loosest being a mish mash of the eldar and Tau but its still comparable. I personally think that if we say the creators of starcraft got some of their inspiration from 40k then thats the most credit i think 40k deserves. im sure the team also thought about Alien and Starship troopers as mentioned here. but to flat out say they arnt even comparable i think is wrong.
I don’t think he’s saying there not comparable more so that they aren’t directly related. Spacemarines are In application mostly tall dudes in big armor and StarCraft marines are just regular guys in armour there’s only so many ways to portray humans in space who fight and StarCraft beside genre standards did not seem to really take much from 40k. Tyranids have changed tons and are hardly fleshed out even now; but the swarm alien idea was not unique to warhammer and was a parody of starship troopers and aliens; StarCraft has the same inspirations but goes different places with it. Tyranids in lots of ways are actually not super biological in terms of end product I mean they have guns and blaster type weapons. Zerg are biological all the way down with the only thing I can think of approaching a real firearm being Virophages in the campaign and infested marines. 40k also does not own the idea of blue space people and the Protoss are in many ways more like the Jedi then the eldar and while there’s some similarities into the whole powerful race brought low by arrogance the cause that drives the two races are different. Eldar lose everything because of there direct actions where as Protoss are more just complicit and caught off guard. I think both series are comparable in the way that they are both scifi series but I do think it’s easy to see correlations between two franchises that like to take from the same genre tropes and compare the two like they are enemies. Elves are a commonplace in fantasy but I would not say that Frieren is a copy of discworld despite them sharing elves as it’s clear both inspirations were more from lord of the rings. StarCraft and 40k are definitely inspired by starship troopers but StarCraft is definitely less inspired by dune then 40k is. Besides 40k got beginning through parody but eventually became its own thing; that’s kinda how media works inspiration purposeful or otherwise helps create more amazing works.
It's very obvious that warcraft and StarCraft are heavily inspired by Warhammer and 40k. To say otherwise is just dishonest lol. StarCraft isn't a purely derivative work though, and it clearly drew on many sources for it's world. But just because other sources were available, doesn't mean that you can dismiss the idea that they were heavily inspired by a franchise that we already know that they were already fans of. It's just kind of dishonest if you think they aren't connected at all lmao
The video is not intended to rule out that there were mutual inspirations, however, it is more dishonest to say that they were inspired by Warhammer because it is your favorite franchise when Warhammer has nothing purely original in its universe, but rather they have integrated references from all kinds of science fiction throughout its development, Starcraft being one of these.
@ Warhammer wasn't even popular back then. The one that popularized most of the concepts of that kind of Sci-Fi was Starship Troopers. Not to mention the direct influence that Alien had on the Zerg. Hydras are basically legless xenomorphs. After 2001 Warhammer started to imitate a lot of Starcraft concepts, Third Edition Tyranids went from being dinosaurs to crested insectoids. Taus are identical to Protoss in lore and design (Oh no, they're just different because Taus have mouths XD). Space Marines even made cinematics openly inspired by the intro of Wing of Liberty. And then the Warhammer toxins come along and say that Starcraft "copied". That bothers me especially because they are the ones who copy everything.
The problem with hair splitting is that you can split them whichever way best fits your argument. Original Blizzard were big fans of Warhammer and 40k. When you make your own Warhammer inspired thing, why wouldn't you also make your own 40k inspired thing? Nothing special.
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Thanks Gamruf por for giving us this trully insightful research. Incredible work!
Always funny when 40K fans call other things ripoffs, because 40K is just history and popular culture put into a blender :D it is hard to find a single thing in that franchise that isn't a reference or a 'legally distinct' version of something else
I remember one dude trying to convince me that helldivers is warhammer 40k ripoff. And when I said that original helldivers were starship troopers parody, he started explaining how starship troopers movie was originally supposed to be warhammer 40k movie. AND SO STARSHIP TROOPERS IS A WARHAMMER RIPOFF. As a 40k fan, I can confidently say that 40k fans are really really really dang annoying
Wh40k fans are like JoJo fans but even worse
@CF-or3ci did you ask him if the 1959 novel was a 40k rip off?
@nichodemus10 yes. Even showed both warhammer when 40k first game came out and when starship troopers novel was bublished. And he was like “oh you got me wrong I meant the movie THATS a ripoff”. But the movie is made AFTER A DAMN NOVEL(with some differences thats for sure but still). It feels like there is one thing on their mind and its warhammer and if something isnt warhammer they try to convince everyone that it is
Especially egregious example is reaction of wh fandom to Leagues of Wotan infantry being absolutely obviously ripped off from exactly Marines of Starcraft. Reaction was "woah they stole their shit back!" this is ridiculous, just compare space marine, sc marine and wotann infantryman, to see who resemble who in what proportion. If you can "steal your shit back" and its not a copy of what you claim being stolen from you in the first place, then alleged theft is made up. Also lovely how wh fans hate GW and troll it for stealing shit from everything, but only until they have to defend claims that someone stole something from GW. They instantly turn from ironic and critical fanbase into blind worshippers.
I love gently both Warhammer (all three branches, including Sigmar thing, it have strengths and weaknesses over FB) and Starcraft, but "Blizzard stole some shit" cultists are absolutely disgraceful, only they can temporarily make me act like i hate Warhammer despite me being actually fan of it with huge loads of fan content.
Conclusion: "Starship Troopers" novel is basically "Lord Of The Rings" of the millitary sci-fi.
@@vladprus4019 pretty much
I love the timeline graphics used here, which really illustrates just how layered science fiction influences have been on one another for the last century. A very well made video!
The concept of assimilation is also present in Alien, the xenomorphs take half of their DNA from whatever creature they infest. They can be based on humans, dogs or any other living creature that is large enough. This is clearly the ''inspiration'' of the genestealers (the name alone says it all), who operate in exactly the same way...
Finally, someone said it, I've been fighting this misconception for YEARS if not a DECADE (or more) at this point, now I can finally link this video as it has more credibility than my word.
Happy to help :)
Same here.
what i've learned from this video - everything is from starship troopers
xd
Always has been
Oldest among mainstream space military swarm-purging sci-fi
Yup! :D
@@AtticusKarpenter Killin' Bugs since the 50's
brutal editing skills
I'm glad you made this video in English. That rumor was very widespread in the English communities too.
BTW, that's good English man. You have a bit of a London accent mixed with Mexico xD. But still very good 👌
He ain't mexican
@cristhianmlr I know, it's Chilean, I just talked about the accent.
12:52 That's actually NOT where that "circular collar" came from. Look up the "bevor", it's part of a knight's armour.
REEEEE FORTYKAAAY WAS THA FEEERST TAH YUUUSE THAAAAT EVERYTHING ELSE (including some ancient stuff like 1960s movies) THAT USES YEEET IS COPYCAAAT
@@The-jy3yq Laughs in REAL WORLD medieval and renaisance period.
And I know you didn't look up bevor, because the first thing that shows up for me is literally a medieval piece of armour from the 16th century.
@@maryrosetran5109I don't think the video creator was saying either series took the collar idea from the other, he was just admitting that they are similar, because the context was about their similarities.
@@flamerollerx01Agreed, but that's not what I was reacting to.
I was reacting to the statement saying: "Guess where that comes from?" while showing an illustration of a Mobile Infantry armour (refer to time stamp).
My statement actually supports the creator's argument that neither copied each other, since the bevor existed hundreds of years before either franchises.
I think Warhammer fans are being very defensive for no reason. Their franchise is still making new games and other content, whereas starcraft is effectively a dead franchise at this time. I prefer Starcraft personally, but that's because I grew up with it and sc2, as well as wc2/3 and WoW.
Hopefully blizzard will do something awesome with the starcraft universe, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll probably continue playing space marine 2 in the future. I literally stopped after the first event to wait for a friend to co-op with (the part you can't play in co-op) and he has been playing other games instead.
Warhammer is awesome, you have nothing to get defensive about.
Lots of warhammer fans are old guard, from a time when it was one of the most niche hobbies even for nerds. Couple that with the grimdark aesthetic attracting edgelords who take themselves way too seriously, and the fascist aesthetics that are meant to be a parody but end up attracting actual fascists with bad comprehension skills, and you get a recipe for an extremely annoying group of elitists that turns the hobby/franchise into their entire personality. They give us a real bad name sometimes.
I happened to believe myself in the whole myth that starcraft and warcraft were gonna be warhammer games but didn't get the license (hell, the warcraft 3 gryphon rider iirc even has a little nod to 40k as a joke in their voice lines), but i never treated that as a bad thing or a ripoff - they took their (mostly visual) inspiration and ran with it and did their own thing, like any other artist. similarly, I know for a fact that a lot of the helldivers devs are warhammer fans and i believe they took some inspiration as well (I mean, you can't really help it to a degree, taking inspo from things you like), but to claim its a ripoff is insane. But these fans develop a superiority complex dependent on "their hobby" being the coolest edgiest most serioustest thing that is the bestest and everyone is jealous of how cool and edgy and serious they are because they're the best. It's so annoying
One small thing I would like to point out: "Eldar" is literally just "elf" in Quenya, a language constructed by Tolkien.
@Xazamas isn't also an actual archaic version of "elder" in english or some other germanic language? I seem to recall seeing it used that way in a completely separate context from warhammer
The Fandom... It's always the Fandom who twisted the truth to become the myth. Thus becoming the source of toxicity in that Fandom.
Thank you for making this video. This might enlighten some reasonable fans but clearly not the zealous fan who got brainwashed by the myth.
....
...
Damn.. I feel like I started talking like Jim but ended up like Zeratul.
@DarkOperationman ahah well when you're debating this topic, link them to this video :b
Flee back to your masters, 40K fan, and huddle with them in the darkness!
seriously though, there are still GW fanboys out there
Honestly WH40k fans spouting this claim at me is why I never gave the franchise a chance.
43:50 Small clarification: Saladin allowed all who could afford a RANSOM to leave. The rest who could not were sold to “indentured servitude”.
barring the enslavement, allowing prisoners to go only after being paid for them was big thing in medieval Europe
like some minor wars between lords were fought because of ransoms that they could take for captured knights
ransoms also made up a substantial percentage of profits for the winner (not the biggest by any means, but usually from 5 to 20%)
Every fanbase has enemies without -- people who look down on or insult the fandom and work -- but the worst enemies are those within. I left Star Wars games because I couldn't stand the worst factions in its fandom. It's just not fun for me anymore.
Warhammer apparently has some very obnoxious people trying to represent it. This is not a problem with the game. This is not a problem with the lore.
This is a problem with the fanbase. Or more likely, a small but loud faction inside the fanbase. The problem is, it's hard to shut down a group like that with logic & facts.
Tribalist delusions run strong in them. Apparently, blind zealous fervor of Emperor's warriors was taken too close to the heart
@@AtticusKarpenter The person who introduced me to Warhammer told me, in no uncertain terms, that Starcraft was just junk that stole all its ideas from Warhammer. This was a massive turn-off. I ended getting into Star Wars X-Wing instead. That guy turned out to have many, many personality issues, and I've always associated him with the 40k crowd's starcraft haters.
But other than him, most of the Warhammer players I've encountered at game stores have been fantastic people, so I've always assumed the starcraft hate is just from a cult of a few very loud man-children.
Do wonder since it pretty noticeable from the mouth movements but was the English voice a voice over in editing? Extremely insightful and well put together, never knew a ton of things brought up here about warhammers creation and inspirations
@double2254 yeah as explained in the first minute of the video that this was dubbed cause the original version was made in spanish.
Thanks for the comment mate :)
@@StarCraftExplained Gotcha had to watch this in a couple of different smaller sessions so must have forgotten that detail, this is really well put together so cudos to everyone involved
11:49
It's apt to not compare SC2 designs to 40K's, as SC1 Marine armor was wildly different...and it resembled Orks more than anything in WH 😂
It'd be more fair to compare SC1 designs to 40K's edition and artwork of the time (like the somewhat early Heresy books and like the 1st and 2nd edition that were around at the time)
Also the Marine design persisted all the way through the beta, which was, to my knowledge, more than half a year before release
I hate when people say that marines are ripoff of space marines. Their armor is literally made like a modern spacesuit but if it was designed for war. It is a very cool concept and has nothing to do with space marines religious high tech power armor but people don‘t acknowledge it at all
They're both derivative of similar background sources but a lot of what blizzard did was take existing formulas and polish them which is where some of the plagiarism meme comes from. The biggest one is the ork / eldar thing to fight the necron and the protoss and zerg being created races. But thats fairly generic scifi, also also hur dur space marines.
One more thing, StarCraft imo has more "references" with Babylon 5 (which was contemporary at the time and very popular with StarCraft's creator's age demographic) than with 40K, especially the art design.
A lot of 40K fans must be zoomers who weren't around in the 90s.
This is so well... Dare I say LEGENDARY 🤩 EDITED. Thank you so much StarCraft Explained. I will share it to my friends🎉
The similarities aren't a myth, but nothing about Kerrigan's story feels 40k like
really the League of Votann armor design is more of a ripoff of starcraft than anything in starcraft is a ripoff of 40k (both being surrent day space suit designs turned into pwoer armor with huge pauldrons, especially notable on the helmet.. and the Votann take that design to the extreme with even their vehicles looking like armored moon rovers)
theres so much going on here all at once here, and i love every bit of it
I'm glad this got dubbed. That must have taken a lot of work. I wouldn't have never found this video otherwise
9:09 I love how the scene from Alien got covered up right when the guy was about to die
I love how people kept peddling that complete LIE that StarCraft was supposed to be a 40K game in early development, that is some Mandele-esque "I can't possibly be wrong" silliness that I've had to correct many, many, many times.
WARCRAFT 1 was originally intended on being a Warhammer FANTASY game, but THAT deal fell through and to my knowledge there was NEVER another parallel ironic deal that followed it. people for some reason mixed that up with StarCraft and make asses out of themselves in so doing.
Warcraft is less like warhammer fantasy than starcraft is to 40k. Just because the guy only talked about blizzard wanting to make a warhammer fantasy game doesnt mean blizzard didnt want to make a 40k game
Warcraft and Wh FB united mainly by the color of the orcs
sooo... basically all the simmilarities between WH40k and SC are either from their common inspiration or (in case of closer and more direct simmilarities) became part of WH40k after SC was released. Makes sense, 40k is combination of other IPs and ideas with very little originality.
Aquí los que conocen a Gamruf desde el video de Kerrigan 🗿
Presente
Amon is a retcon. Can't change my mind.
Amon is a Temu version of Sargeras
Well. Im sure they had some all powerful being in mind(because secret mission in brood war). But they didn‘t bother planning Amon at all and so retconned anything connected to him to make him more scary(Brood war Kerrigan transformation into wings of liberty Keerigan, who was INFLUENCED by amon)
Maybe? His whole plan is already hinted at in brood war's secret Zerg mission though.
@@panchoxxlocoxx9638 I think the Hybrid were always part of the plan, but there's no indication that Amon was involved in that mission. Duran was in charge of making the hybrid, and he could easily have been the mastermind at that point.
nice, thanks for showing the differences between the two!
Thanks for great researched comparison.
I wish for StarCraft universe get more exposure in the media.
It could, and it was planned, but sadly Blizzard are not in the shape for this anymore
Pretty sure the source was this Warcraft being intially Warhammer thing, but they got no license (which has actual evidence, as you pointed out), but people simply conflated the games since both pairs (Wacraft - Warhammer and Starcraft - 40k) have some (mainly at the first glance) aesthethic simmilarities and are from same companies. The fact that 40k is more popular didn't help the same (I guess some people hear "Warhammer" and assume just 40k and nothing more).
Very good video! I find it funny that this is such a pervasive rumor that both Blizzard and GW have tried to be more unique about there designs since then. If I recall correctly, the reason the Hydralisk design in SC2 has 3 talons is because they wanted it to look distinct compared to the Tyranids Scything Talons.
Also, the Tyranids changed style after Zerg came out.
I think Europeans overestimate how much culture we Americans are exposed to from Europe, especially in the past. I had never heard of warhammer until well after starcraft and even warcraft 3! I was introduced to the game theough a firend of a friends brother! He gave me a pirated copy of warhammer 40k: dawn of war. Warhammer is far more of a European franchise and has only recently become culturally relevant here. It was certainly a thing here, but it was quite niche.
You know that abaut 95% more of it is from europe ? It just a lot is stuff old to point when some american speak today more like people from x part of europe 100-200 years ago and the same region today have more difrends betwen it language and orginal than american version and orginal
FINALLY someone tackled this issue, ignorant smug wh40k fans are insuffering. Especially with things like "Blizzard never created anything original" on wh40k-fans-dominated 1d6 wiki. Yeeeeeeeaah, sure....
I've read this a few days ago in order to debate some 40k fanboys too. Space Marine as a notion is even older than Starship Troopers the book.
Thank you for the video.
I had heard q different version of this that (in my opinion) is less negative. Where early in development starcraft was going to BE a Warhammer game but something something licensing, then starcraft was left with the bare skeleton of the factions. human, tech alien and swarm alien. It felt realistic enough that I never questioned.
Being old as fuck I too learned Blizzard ripped off Warhammer in the early 2000's.
so you are old af and still don't know the truth?
@@StarCraftExplained Dude I dont know what fake truth you made up in these videos but anyone with two braincells can see Starcraft completely ripped off Warhammer.
Maybe you should use more than two brain cells from time to time and you would understand that after the 2000s it was precisely when Warhammer imitated all the concept art of Starcraft.
@@Konranjyoutai Wait, you "don't know what fake truth" then u didnt watch the video, therefore we can't talk. Come back after watching it and make some valid arguments.
As a SC and Wh40k fan from 00s, a can assure you that it all started tgen Dawn of War released it was clamed Star Craft ripp-off, and Warhammer was obscure IP.
The nids were in rogue trader though just not fleshed out at all but they were there from the start
They were different and looked nothing like zerg until sc came out
@CF-or3ci that is true but they did in fact exist, they had diplomats back then even
Great video, love deep dives on video game history ❤
36:22 codices*
Love it, keep up thr good work
Too. Loud. Music. It's uncomfortable to listen, yes, StarCraft Music are good, but we on this video to listen the author, not to listen Music with author on background.
You can tell who didn't actually play 40K until years after StarCraft came out by whether they think the zerg ripped off tyrannids look or not
How did Bob Fitch does not know about Warhammer, then earlier Blizzard considered WarCraft to be Warhammer game?
This video is good, but in some cases it goes to far in denying inspration, maybe because of frustration of Wh fans behavior.
OK. I have a lot of objections but the main one has to do with your logic especially when discussing the influences by Starship Troopers.
By your logic, Warcraft could not have possibly copied Warhammer Fantasy because orks were invented earlier by Tolkien.
But it is a fact that Warcraft 1's early development was influenced by Warhammer Fantasy. You point that out yourself. So ?
So? Starcraft Terran infantry very palpably closer to Starship Troopers than to anything Warhammer 40k have (be it Imperial Guard infantry - not "space" and armed with laser analogue of bolt action rifles; or Space Marines - supersoldiers-knights in shining armor with automatic grenade launchers disguised as assault rifles. While both Troopers and Terran Marines are space dudes in vacuum protection suits, with not-that-futuristic firearms)
Aesthethic-wise orcs in Warcraft anf Warhammer are both more simmilar to each other than any of them are to Tolkien orcs (which are mostly gray-skinned and generally SMALLER than humans, the stronger ones were comparable to humans, they also don't have the long teeth coming from the jaw - this trait was present in early DnD illustrations however, with its more pig-like orcs) however, its important to mention that initially they were more different, Warcraft orcs became aesthethically more simmilar to Warhammer gradually, becoming more and more "massive" over time. Also while their (rough) looks was converging, their characterization is completly different in every possible way outside of them being "brutish fighters" (Warhammer orcs being more joke race, while Warcraft goes for the more serious and human-like approach)
Моё мнение таково: Вархаммер идёт на три буквы за то что украл дизайн тиранидов со Старкрафтовских зергов. Все копируют друг у друга и всем на это наплевать. Только фанатики самой копирующей франшизы (я про фанатов Вахи) ущемляются с этого, причём на пустом месте.
It’s the idea that warhammer hardly has a leg to stand on with copying allegations considering they got their inception from a mismatch of copying other ips and real world places. I mean the world of warhammer fantasy is literally just our world with Britain on a giant donut. Warhammer 40k was just a giant spoof of dune and starship troopers down the the messages of the stories it was trying to tell.
The real takeaway-Gotta read Starship Troopers!
MUSIC IS TOO LOUD! Great video tho, thank you. :)
What I have been saying all the time. However, only die hard fans who can’t see reason perpetuate this. So it is important to talk about the propaganda machine GW has cultivated
As huge a fan of both, i love this video
@@Morgomir09 glad you enjoyed it :)
@@StarCraftExplained yw, learned a few new things about the background, a few lore nitpicks but overall VERY well done
I love 40k and love starctaft. And I hate everyone who compares the two
good editing, music too loud
There are ALOT of homages, qnd pastiches though 😂
You can tell the inspiration was drawn at least in part.
ill be honest alot of this debunk is just not up to a quality i can respect. i get the core message, and the Starcraft Warhammer link was always just a rumor to me. but personally i want to point out a couple things that yelled at me. the first part where he talks about contract law being air tight so no way GW could pull out with blizzard? contracts especially for IP can have clauses where the owner of the IP can pull out if they dont like the quality of the work or something else they can specify in the contract.
When he compairs the starcraft races to the warhammer races and just says (in my own words) nah man they dont look anything alike! i disagree, they for sure arnt carbon coppies, but the Terran of starcraft can easily be taken as interpretations of the Imperium from 40k. If you want to you can easily compare the Zerg and the Tyranids. the most far fetched comparison is the Protoss to 40k is probably the loosest being a mish mash of the eldar and Tau but its still comparable.
I personally think that if we say the creators of starcraft got some of their inspiration from 40k then thats the most credit i think 40k deserves. im sure the team also thought about Alien and Starship troopers as mentioned here. but to flat out say they arnt even comparable i think is wrong.
I don’t think he’s saying there not comparable more so that they aren’t directly related. Spacemarines are In application mostly tall dudes in big armor and StarCraft marines are just regular guys in armour there’s only so many ways to portray humans in space who fight and StarCraft beside genre standards did not seem to really take much from 40k. Tyranids have changed tons and are hardly fleshed out even now; but the swarm alien idea was not unique to warhammer and was a parody of starship troopers and aliens; StarCraft has the same inspirations but goes different places with it. Tyranids in lots of ways are actually not super biological in terms of end product I mean they have guns and blaster type weapons. Zerg are biological all the way down with the only thing I can think of approaching a real firearm being Virophages in the campaign and infested marines. 40k also does not own the idea of blue space people and the Protoss are in many ways more like the Jedi then the eldar and while there’s some similarities into the whole powerful race brought low by arrogance the cause that drives the two races are different. Eldar lose everything because of there direct actions where as Protoss are more just complicit and caught off guard. I think both series are comparable in the way that they are both scifi series but I do think it’s easy to see correlations between two franchises that like to take from the same genre tropes and compare the two like they are enemies. Elves are a commonplace in fantasy but I would not say that Frieren is a copy of discworld despite them sharing elves as it’s clear both inspirations were more from lord of the rings. StarCraft and 40k are definitely inspired by starship troopers but StarCraft is definitely less inspired by dune then 40k is. Besides 40k got beginning through parody but eventually became its own thing; that’s kinda how media works inspiration purposeful or otherwise helps create more amazing works.
Gamruf high crack
Who copied Whom*
Ya lo vi en español.
I've watched it on english.
Quando é que vou ver em português?
We could add portuguese subttitles o:
It's very obvious that warcraft and StarCraft are heavily inspired by Warhammer and 40k. To say otherwise is just dishonest lol. StarCraft isn't a purely derivative work though, and it clearly drew on many sources for it's world. But just because other sources were available, doesn't mean that you can dismiss the idea that they were heavily inspired by a franchise that we already know that they were already fans of. It's just kind of dishonest if you think they aren't connected at all lmao
The video is not intended to rule out that there were mutual inspirations, however, it is more dishonest to say that they were inspired by Warhammer because it is your favorite franchise when Warhammer has nothing purely original in its universe, but rather they have integrated references from all kinds of science fiction throughout its development, Starcraft being one of these.
Most of StarCraft’s similarities are just sci fi concepts that warhammer happens to make popular but existed long before.
@ Warhammer wasn't even popular back then. The one that popularized most of the concepts of that kind of Sci-Fi was Starship Troopers. Not to mention the direct influence that Alien had on the Zerg. Hydras are basically legless xenomorphs. After 2001 Warhammer started to imitate a lot of Starcraft concepts, Third Edition Tyranids went from being dinosaurs to crested insectoids. Taus are identical to Protoss in lore and design (Oh no, they're just different because Taus have mouths XD). Space Marines even made cinematics openly inspired by the intro of Wing of Liberty. And then the Warhammer toxins come along and say that Starcraft "copied". That bothers me especially because they are the ones who copy everything.
@@overmind3922 I meant make popular now lol.
The problem with hair splitting is that you can split them whichever way best fits your argument.
Original Blizzard were big fans of Warhammer and 40k. When you make your own Warhammer inspired thing, why wouldn't you also make your own 40k inspired thing? Nothing special.
Vamoooooo Gamruf
Very based.
Epic