One thing I forgot to mention is that in the Butterfly setup the Bandit should have some limitations (like No Afterburner and/or 4G maximum for turns). Without any limitations it will be really difficult for the Fighter to build enough turning room for the Lead Turn without burning a lot of speed in the process. Limited to just MIL power and/or a 4G limit the Bandit will have a much wider turn radius giving the Fighter some more margin for error. But as you get better the Bandit's limits should gradually be removed. Good luck with your training!
Hi Mike, thanks for your great videos! May I use the image at 4:41 in one of my missions as part of the briefing material and kneeboard? I would add your logo and a reference to your channel. Thanks. (Edit: forgot to say, I would like to post the mission in the DCS User Files section).
Hey mike, so I got a question I was hoping you could maybe cover a little more in depth with a future video. I was in MSFS doing some dogfighting tonight with a friend and something about the vertical just had me all screwed up about the angles. Nothing helped me out. Are there any reposition maneuvers or queues to look for to time your over the top or just general tips on vertical and oblique fights? It’s definitely my Achilles heel at the moment. Take care and always appreciate your videos. Like you say, the skill is very perishable, but your videos help make the shelf life a little longer. Thanks in advance
I know a lot of the examples and diagrams I show on this channel are 2-D/on the horizontal plane, but the same exact rules apply for vertical BFM too. When you add the vertical element always keep the EM diagram in mind. You're going to lose speed going uphill and gain it going down (ie negative and positive Ps). So if your game plan is a maximum sustained turn rate, then it might not be a good idea to go up over the top and better to stay where you can maintain speed on that 0 Ps line. Later on in this series we'll cover a situation where you actually do want to lose speed. But I'll leave the details for that video. As a side note, I do remember that during the Vietnam war, F-4 pilots figured out that they had an energy advantage on the older MiGs used by the N. Vietnam AF. Those old MiGs turned much better than the heavier F-4s. One of the first things taught by the then new TOPGUN school was to go into the vertical instead of into a turning fight with a MiG. Just bear in mind that's a specific instance where that was the best call and it may not always work for you.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom I think in the situation that made me question my sanity, I should have opted for more of a single circle fight instead. I was in a live dogfight with a Viggen, unsure which one, and I was in the F5 already below ps 0 mark so I was just trying to use my small radius to deny him a good kill. Coupled with the bandit blunders of the stress, cloud coverage, and everything I was probably early on the turn circle entry queues as well due to the very high LOS change of him being at least 150kts faster. I tried to opt him into my slow fight but he insisted on the vertical so the only valid tracking points I had was roughly at or below the horizon, and being below PS 0 I couldn’t keep the alpha for a shot before he would pull away. He was out of parameters for the sidewinders as well so the missile couldn’t pull the lead either at the aspect I was at. Later in the engagement after about 7 or 8 minutes of maybe single digit gains per minute trying to figure him out, he had a wingman join in a mig 15, in which the fight continued for some 15 minutes total before I ran out of fuel and had to e-land in a nearby field. Gonna have to be more precise and check the gas before an extended dogfight on the deck next time 🤷♂️
One thing I forgot to mention is that in the Butterfly setup the Bandit should have some limitations (like No Afterburner and/or 4G maximum for turns). Without any limitations it will be really difficult for the Fighter to build enough turning room for the Lead Turn without burning a lot of speed in the process. Limited to just MIL power and/or a 4G limit the Bandit will have a much wider turn radius giving the Fighter some more margin for error.
But as you get better the Bandit's limits should gradually be removed. Good luck with your training!
I love seeing my F-5 skins in this. Absolutely excellent instruction!
They're great looking skins. Awesome work!
Another great explanation on the mysteries of proper ACM.
Thanks, PHH!
Good progress mike keep ‘em coming. I’ve started referring the newbs your way 😁 thanks for another banger.
These are some of the best videos out there. Excellent job of teaching the basics!
Another awesome video. Lots to take away on the lead turn .. time to go practice. Thanks
very informative, this way of presentation is the best I ever learnt in RUclips. Just like my FWI
Awesome video once again, thanks a lot !
Hi Mike, thanks for your great videos! May I use the image at 4:41 in one of my missions as part of the briefing material and kneeboard? I would add your logo and a reference to your channel. Thanks. (Edit: forgot to say, I would like to post the mission in the DCS User Files section).
That's okay with me. Enjoy!
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom Great, thanks! It is just a small mission ;-)
Great stuff as always!
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
Great!! Thanks for sharing this clear explanation
Amazing vids, thanks ❤
Excelente!
Thanks for the excellent content. Does your channel have a discord?
Not at the moment. I may open one in the future though.
Hey mike, so I got a question I was hoping you could maybe cover a little more in depth with a future video. I was in MSFS doing some dogfighting tonight with a friend and something about the vertical just had me all screwed up about the angles. Nothing helped me out. Are there any reposition maneuvers or queues to look for to time your over the top or just general tips on vertical and oblique fights? It’s definitely my Achilles heel at the moment. Take care and always appreciate your videos. Like you say, the skill is very perishable, but your videos help make the shelf life a little longer. Thanks in advance
I know a lot of the examples and diagrams I show on this channel are 2-D/on the horizontal plane, but the same exact rules apply for vertical BFM too.
When you add the vertical element always keep the EM diagram in mind. You're going to lose speed going uphill and gain it going down (ie negative and positive Ps). So if your game plan is a maximum sustained turn rate, then it might not be a good idea to go up over the top and better to stay where you can maintain speed on that 0 Ps line.
Later on in this series we'll cover a situation where you actually do want to lose speed. But I'll leave the details for that video.
As a side note, I do remember that during the Vietnam war, F-4 pilots figured out that they had an energy advantage on the older MiGs used by the N. Vietnam AF. Those old MiGs turned much better than the heavier F-4s. One of the first things taught by the then new TOPGUN school was to go into the vertical instead of into a turning fight with a MiG. Just bear in mind that's a specific instance where that was the best call and it may not always work for you.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom I think in the situation that made me question my sanity, I should have opted for more of a single circle fight instead. I was in a live dogfight with a Viggen, unsure which one, and I was in the F5 already below ps 0 mark so I was just trying to use my small radius to deny him a good kill. Coupled with the bandit blunders of the stress, cloud coverage, and everything I was probably early on the turn circle entry queues as well due to the very high LOS change of him being at least 150kts faster. I tried to opt him into my slow fight but he insisted on the vertical so the only valid tracking points I had was roughly at or below the horizon, and being below PS 0 I couldn’t keep the alpha for a shot before he would pull away. He was out of parameters for the sidewinders as well so the missile couldn’t pull the lead either at the aspect I was at.
Later in the engagement after about 7 or 8 minutes of maybe single digit gains per minute trying to figure him out, he had a wingman join in a mig 15, in which the fight continued for some 15 minutes total before I ran out of fuel and had to e-land in a nearby field.
Gonna have to be more precise and check the gas before an extended dogfight on the deck next time 🤷♂️
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