Sidius was so brutal with his training and treatment of vader because he saw himself as the final sith, he _never intended_ to let himself be surpassed (going as far as making sure his empire died with him). He wanted to do away with the Rule of 2, and create a rule of 1. Him. Its one of the reasons he designed Vader's suit to be specifically vulnerable to force lightening.
Exactly. Once he unlocked the secret of immortality he and Vader would live forever. How " alive " or sane poor Vader would have been is a question better left unanswered.😳🙄😒
That’s not fully true. While he did see himself as the culmination of the rule of 2 he didn’t purposefully weaken vader the suits weakness to lighting wasn’t very intentional and he openly encouraged vader to change and upgrade the suit all he wanted. He claims he had 0 issue issues with vader ending his life just as long he did as a sith and I somewhat believe that but not fully. We know he wanted the Death Star to replace vader as the face of fear. So he could force Vader to assist him in unlocking the secrets of the force but I don’t think he wanted to share the secrets with vader I fully think he sought to surpass the flesh entirely and vader to supplant as the physical form of the sith. If that couldn’t be accomplished his second best bet was for vader his greatest creation and his monster the chosen one to surpass him in power and cruelty and carry on the power of the darkside. If he died before he could accomplish his goal.
He expected Vader to be stronger, he literally said it himself but after seeing what happened to Vader he believed no one will ever surpass him and he was the ultimate Sith. Vader was no longer “worthy”. “Look out there, Anakin. A trillion beings on this planet alone-in the galaxy as a whole, uncounted quadrillions-and of them all, I have chosen you, Anakin Skywalker, to be the heir to my power. To all that I am.”-rots novelisation Let’s be real, unburned Vader’s potential was %200 of Sidious and Lucas said in the “making of RoTS” interview that Anakin was already strong enough to kill Sidious. Sidious also said “He’s powerful, potentially more powerful than even myself” in the novelization. He’s not stupid enough to think he would survive full potential of Vader, he expected Vader to surpass him and he was disappointed at first. “All who gain power are afraid to lose it.”
Which for Vaders ORIGINS Vader should known how to adapt to an beat... just discreetly modify his suit..then get strong enough to take the then aging Sith
Sidious was a powerful force user but a *HORRIBLE* *TEACHER* He lost not one, not two but three different apprentices with the final one killing him and turning back to the light side. The reason Sidious was so awful was because unlike previous Sith who at the very least respected the Sith Order and the Rule of 2. Darth Sidious respected nothing and no one and those with no understanding of the light can never fully comprehend the dark. Had Sidious had even a shred of humility he would have seen Darth Vader was edging back to the light and could have stopped it
Palpatine implemented the rule of one. The Rule of One essentially allowed him to be the sole Sith Lord, with numerous dark side acolytes serving under him but not being true Sith Lords themselves. Under the Rule of One, Palpatine maintained control over the Galactic Empire, while his acolytes, such as the Inquisitors, served as his agents and enforcers. This doctrine granted Palpatine unparalleled power and authority, making him the ultimate ruler of the Sith and the galaxy. If Palpatine wasn't a good teacher Mara Jade wouldn't be good at what she does.
@@vitorpereira9515 Mara Jade was *never* a true Sith. Sidious had powerful people working for him such as Vader, Thrawn and Mara Jade but he never properly trained a true successor. And that was ultimately his undoing
@@TotalTech2. In the rule of one he wouldn't need a successor. He would be the sole sith lord with a legion of dark side adepts to be the extension of his will across the galaxy.
He intended to respect the rule of 2 , having Vader replace him. He justified removing the rule of 2 because he claimed vader was ruined when he was cut in half . But that also makes so sense, because he also claims vader was holding himself back and not because he was injured
@@MrMasterDebate Yes. I agree. Sidious destroyed literally everything he touched. He had a rich family and killed them He had a master who was willing to teach him immortality and killed him He had 3 powerful apprentices and killed all 3 of them He had 2 planet size space stations and destroyed them He had an entire galaxy as his plaything and lost it after 2 decades. While he is powerful and a genius it's in his nature to destroy and not to build
Funnily enough Darth Plagueis actually did give Sidious a lesson about how he should literally never bring a fallen Jedi into the Sith Order. But Plagueis decided that it was a good idea to teach Sidious this lesson while he was naked and freezing to death on an ice planet lmao
@@Hello-bi1pm He was actually pretty apprehensive about Dooku. Especially because of his mastery of Makashi and Curved hilted lightsaber, he really didn't like the idea of a Jedi that might be prepared for the Sith
"Of all the monsters I have created, I still regard Darth Vader as something of a minor masterpiece. No, he was not an entirely alchemical creation, but he was my monster nevertheless. Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time. Yes, he ultimately turned against his Master, as monsters sometimes do, but that was my fault, not his. Given the opportunity to create Vader again, I would, and with zeal." - Palpatine
This just solidifies the fact that Sheev Palpatine actually viewed Anakin Skywalker like a son and did trust him. He does not blame Anakin for coming back and saving Luke, Sheev blamed himself. It’s very… calming for some reason.
@@TheMightOfGeburahIn the Disney canon, it was revealed that Palpatine knew that a remnant of Anakin's personality was still alive within Vader's soul. He wasn't surprised by his betrayal but he definetely was pissed.
@@vitorpereira9515he didn’t take pleasure in ruining his life though, he took pleasure in having Anakin see his views and the vast potential of the Chosen One being made into a weapon of the Dark Side with his own choice. He took pleasure in convincing Anakin that the Jedi are hypocritical and not exactly as “good” , “don’t care about losing anything” and “without fear” as was believed. It’s even made clear through the whole Clone Wars show that Sidious was right about the Jedi being corrupt, closed-minded, unknowledgeable and deluded. The idea that you limit yourself to one side of The Force and not explore all of them as if they do not exist then talk about “the way of the Force” then ignoring Qui Gon’s warnings that The Force itself told him that the Sith had returned and they’re stronger than ever leading to his Death is insane in of itself, keep in mind that later on the Jedi Council spread this propaganda that “Only Sith deal in absolutes” but then say “All Sith are liars, deceivers and evil”, when Dooku straight up says that he’s not the Sith Lord, and that the actual Sith Lord (Sidious) is among them. They talk about not letting emotions and visions guide you but ignoring the visions is exactly why Anakin was consumed by Vader and the reason Sidious was able to win so handily and the reason Mace Windu almost took down Sidious. We’re even learning now that The Old Age of the Jedi and Sith were far more neutral than how blatantly abysmal the Jedi of the Order 66 Era were in comparison. Sidious was utterly powerful and could dominate The Force itself yet while evil, he at least gave others an idea of some type of Democracy as shown in material like the Bad Batch, convincing them that he’s right and gave arguments for it. Sidious was looking for a proper apprentice for a while to replace/surpass/succeed him even if they ended up killing him in the process. There are many novels, guides and materials that explain this little concept and most aren’t even “Legends” since George Lucas had a hand in them. The worst part was that Sidious told the Jedi to deal with Anakin and they could stop all that he is attempting to do, he did this to Yoda and Yoda just ignored it… and it literally explains how Yoda immediately knew Anakin was Vader right off the bat too. Keep in mind, Yoda had to learn that the Dark Side is in every being and that you can’t just ignore it. Sidious had more faith in Anakin than the Jedi did and that’s… very concerning… Sidious was definitely evil but even he had principles.
Darth Bane actually bothered to train his apprentice. Maul was trained in battle facilities and by earning experience through assassination missions, Tyranus was taught Force Lightning and perhaps a minor knowledge of Sith alchemy but Vader was treated only as a cybernetic boogeyman, " punching bag " and bait to draw out enemies. All that while also testing Vader against potential replacements of his such as a revived Darth Maul.
Sidious treated apprentices like basketball shoes. wear them down and swap them out after harsh use make them fall apart lmao. Bane had a goal in mind for the chain of sith lines. but Sidious never intended for there to be another sith after him.
Sidious really only used the rule of two as a formality. He used Maul, he used Dooku, and he used Vader. Everyone was a pawn to him, especially his apprentices.
1:54 And this is why you're my FAVORITE Star Wars channel ever and I'm SO glad you're back. Thank you SO much. I hate Disney Canon, couldn't care less for it, but I don't mind you covering it I just like to know what's canon versus Legends and I appreciate you specifying SO deeply!
Another key difference was, unlike Bane, Sidious never intended for his apprentice to replace him, believing that the Rule of Two had served its purpose and there was no need for Vader to surpass him. His arrogance and self importance doomed the Sith
So glad your back. I would like to add that the ultimate goals of bane and sidious were different. Bane wanted the sith line to continue and grow stronger. Sidious had no intention of continuing the sith order as he believed banes rule of 2 culminated in himself and that he was the end goal bane started.
Then, for whatever topic related to the thing he spent the whole video talking about. Vader should have either killed this idiot or forced his own end at this goofballs hand. These comics make me hate Palpatine more, while at the same time lose respect for Vader. At the beginning of "Return of the Jedi " Palpatine refers to Vader as "My Friend." I'd like to see something that tells Palpatine " Alright, I'd better stop trying to torture this guy, and take him very seriously." And for Darth Bane then.
Perfect. It is not possible for the Rule of Two model to thrive if there isn't respect. I've always seen it as an un reasonable model by mistakenly assuming Sidious was a good reference to previous Sith. Thanks for the video.
Nope literally no one else wanted their apprentices to hate them except in the short term sense (I. E tough training for which any sane person would later be grateful)
Sidious had no intention of training a successor. He wanted tools and servants, but he saw himself as the pinnacle of the sith order. Fear and pain keep the servants in line.
The way sidious trained his apprentice was the reason why they all failed on their first encounter because he sucked at harnessing their power. And the way he treated them was eventually the reason why he was betrayed in the end by Vader
Sidious was more likely a madman than an evil Sith. He care little for any of the ideas of Darth Bane. He circumvented the rule of two in many ways, the inquisitors, allowing Vader to have Starkiller. And I don't think Maul or Tyranus were ever ment to follow Sidious, and not Vader either. Sidious wanted to rule alone forever from the start. How early he wanted to rule forever is hinted in his own fascination with Plageius presumed "keeping people alive". I assume from the moment he understood the implications of Plageius research, he decided to be the final and immortal Sith Lord. Also looking how he mismanaged the Empire, letting only the worst and most inept rise to positions, himself more and more caring about finding more Sithmagic shows, he lost all ambition of a true Sith, like caring at all about his Empire and ensuring a continuation of the Sith in the case he would die. In his view, if he died, the Sith might as well end.
Darth Sidious: I AM the senate!😡 Emperor Caligula: I made my horse a legitimate member of the Roman imperial senate.😊 Darth Sidious: And they call ME crazy!!!😫
Sidious became slightly complacent once his empire was established and just thought that if Vader was powerful enough to survive his injury's then maybe he didn't really need to put any effort into training him like he did his former student's. Plus vader was the 'chosen one' and most of his training took place during the clone wars so Sidious was more concerned about vaders mental state after he was turned rather than training him as he would maul. Im sure he didn't really put much effort into training Dooku either as he was already incredibly skilled and had all the tools needed to function alone without constant supervision from Sidious. Sidious took the same approach with Vader, which was a mistake on his part as vader needed far more help adjusting to his new situation and Sidious just assumed Vader's obsession with his past life would just fade away, and it never did, and if Sidious trained him to really let go of those thoughts then maybe vader redeeming himself and being conflicted later would never have happened...
It's always been fascinating to see that Bane and Zannah were essentially normal people compared to some of their successors. Sure, Bane came from an abusive household and spend periods of time fighting his fellow miners on Apatros, but he was an otherwise well-adjusted person and popular among his comrades in the Sith army. Zannah was a child dragged into a war by the Jedi and lost her friends, but she wasn't some power hungry, raging psychopath by adulthood. Both Bane and Zannah chose the Sith willingly, and they recognized that they were just the first members of a lineage. Sidious, on the other hand, reveled in power, manipulation and cruelty for cruelty's sake. He wished to rule forever, all-powerful and immortal, and even his apprentices were tools to be used rather than genuine heirs to his power.
Best Star Wars analysis channel on RUclips. You've been away too long...and btw, KEEP THE DARTH BANE VIDEOS COMING!🙏 (LOL little rusty on the "if not for me's though).
Also look at how Vader trained Starkiller - Vader would constantly test him but it wasn’t about sadistic glee, there was purpose behind it. Make him the best or die trying.
There was wisdom in Sidious' choice to take Vader on as his apprentice. As Vader was among the greatest Jedi warriors to fight in the Clone War, he'd naturally have a good understanding of Jedi fighting forms, tactics and combative Force abilities, and how to counter them. This would make Vader the ideal executioner for the survivors of Order 66.
To be fair…there were plenty of Sith Masters who didn’t follow Bane’s rules as written. Hell , one dude decided to destroy a collection of information. That’s not even addressing the ways Sith like Sidious killed their master. The original plan was to duel your master in 1v1 combat as a means to show that you are stronger. Too many Sith stab their masters in the back. Granted it’s their natural instinct as Sith.
Here's what I don't get: Sidious wrote himself: Choose someone as a successor and you will inevitably be succeeded. Choose someone hungrier and you will be devoured. Choose someone quicker and you won't dodge the blade at your back. Choose someone with more patience and you won't block the blade at your throat. Choose someone more devious and you'll hold the blade that kills you. Choose someone more clever and you'll never know your end. Despite these cautions, an apprentice is essential. A Master without an apprentice is a Master of nothing. So he *_KNEW_* ultimately Vader had to get rid of him, yet he decided to try and do what? Rule with his apprentice as emperor forever? He's not an apprentice anymore then! Palpatine was always full of these little contradictions.
Wish there was a way to combine the best aspects of both the EU and disney. EU is a lot better and often had way better stories, but it also wasn't perfect either, and did have some issues every now and then. Disney canon is overall not as good, but there are some interesting things made in the disney canon and some things were fixed. I'd combine the best aspects of both to make the best kind of Star Wars.
Just to play devil advocate's and entratain the topic: Sidious is not 100% to blame for his teachings backfiring on him, as they aren't even his per se: he just copied and tried to build upon how Darth Plaguesis trained him, which in turn is how the later was trained by Darth Tenebrous. Plaguesis' novel paints a clear picture that, at some point, Bane's mentality of "Respect > Fear" faded; to the point of Plaguesis killing of Tenebrous and Sidious killing of Plaguesis being less because of the Grand Plan and more because of revenge, as both were humiliated and tortured in their deaths, which also were opportnuistic backstabing betrayals instead of honored duels: their respective aprentices feared them so much to the point they wouldn't even consider direct combat. Much of this also applies to Maul and Vader, albeit in the later's case, his feeling of love and guilt were the major part of the equation in his case; as for the former, he never got the chance and not even considered it until returning in the Clone Wars, and even then still doubt that he could pull it off.
I have no idea why everybody says that. That was a backup because he was getting old. He did it in that fight because a master has to throw everything at the apprentice. If he possessed Zannah, then she was to weak to be worthy. Those saying he never intended to be overthrown are wrong.
So he skipped the chapter on "why you shouldn't throw your master down a bottomless chute". Everything else preceded exactly as he had forseen. Mostly.
But did zannah really beat bane? I have my doubts, and i think the novel wants us to have doubts. In the last moments of their duel, bane tries to overtake zannahs body. He has had issues with his hand before that, and when the duel is over zannah looks at her Hand fascinated and moves and flexes it. Isnt that a hint that bane took over and was now zannah in disguise?
You're absolutely right on almost everything. However, Vader, post-Mustafar, in his Cybernetic Suit (a Failure that Bane would probably have prevented in the first place), was suffering from Constant & Extreme Chronic Pain, so there was no way around this. Vader HAD to learn to use his Physical and Emotional Pain as a Driving Force, to transmute his Pain into Fuel for Power. However, Vader DID NOT need to be Tortured by his Master, as you said. Bane would have had to address the issue of Vader's Pain to turn it into Strength, which is a HUGE challenge in and of itself (I know oh so well as I've been suffering from extreme chronic pa¡n for over a decade), but in the Star Wars Universe, with the Dark Side of the Force, an endless supply of Pain is definitely a huge plus for a Sith Lord, as it offers an immense Pool to tap into and gain Power from.
That maybe one thing, but mentally, I think Vader lacks something and Sidious also said that. The power of a Sith is not gained and expressed not only through one's physical conditions or how sensitive they are to the Force naturally, but will, focus and self-esteem. I remember some parts saying Vader's sense of guilt for his wife's death inhibits him from full focus into the dark side, which could have amplified his strength even further. Zannah and Bane don't have that kind of guilt towards those they hurt. First, they accepted what is gone is gone and step forward, second, they remember that emotional turmoil soaring to help them achieve that power again. But then they also see that milestone being something that motivates them even more. I think Bane and Zannah don't really feel prideful in their own progression despite how far they have run, humility never hampers them, it enhances their drive, reminds them that there is something waiting for them. That pride is for their students, when they see the first milestone, then another, another, until the day they fall by their student's hands. They are proud that they are awesome teachers to bear such an amazing student, and they are proud that the student is mature enough to take their place.
Well everyone, as of today, April 25th, 2024, it is now 10 years since The Star Wars Expanded Universe was decanonized. A moment of remembrance for all the lore, adventures, characters, and stories that are all now "Legends".
Darth Vader hated Darth Sidious so much that Vader was able to absorb sufficient Force Lightning to make his bones glow through his black armor. And to survive for a short time thereafter. That was the power of the Dark Side. You could say that he was Anakin again at that point, but I would argue that stopping that much power had to be a serious Sith feat. I’m hoping for a retcon one day where Darth Vader actually beats down Sidious. Vader COULD use Force Lightning, but he would damage his armor. Yet there are great “What If” stories here on YT where Vader was able to heal or rebuild himself to the point his full potential was realized, and he was able to defeat Sidious. The DV comics almost did it a few years back, where Vader finally had enough and went after Sidious on Exegol. Vader’s rage was.INCENDIARY at that point, but the author chose to play it safe. We were robbed of the exact moment I was hoping for!!!! I stopped reading the series at that point, because we the readers were set-up by the writing.
Despite all of Darth Bane’s teachings, I think he loved his apprentice as a daughter. He didn’t treat her the way that other Sith treated their apprentices
I would just love to know what Sidious's plan for Vader would be if he didnt lose a majority of his power on Mustafar. There is no way Vader would have taken all that abuse from Palpatine if he didnt have the suit on.
Like Luke said, Sidious's overconfidence and arrogance became his downfall, especially when Palpatine acted/behaved like a spoiled brat with zero honor towards his apprentices. Bane was the true Sith Lord because he respected Zannah and taught confidence with humility instead of fear and pain; therefore, Bane's method of training Zannah leads to much better results than what Palpatine did to Vader and his past apprentices because Sidious really is an untamed immature wild animal fearing his own downfall.
Sidous issue with vader was he contradicted himself. He definitely had 0 issues with vader surpassing him and eagerly wanted him to live up to his full potential but he at the same time believed it was Vader’s responsibility to accomplish this by some how getting all the knowledge from sidous that he didn’t want to give.
Counterpoint The baneite sith enacting the grand plan during millenia had to be different from how Sidious when he won. He didnt need a sucessor to continue the plan, he needed an enforcer of his will in the galaxy. Way different conditions they lived in and I dont think Vader would ever be a very capabable ruler.
Vader is pretty intelligent and quick-learning man. Government won't be hard once Vader is ready and mature enough. Military, that's one thing, diplomatics, he knows his stuff
But doesn't this sound too much like selfless Jedi training, why would brutal Sith training reinforce the light, and Bane's respectful training reinforce Sith's zeal to selflessly give up their lives for the Grand Plan? This is too contradictory to the nature of the Sith.
Sidious did believe he outgrew the rule of 2 but all sith lords strive to become immortal. Plagus actually ended the rule of 2 because he thought sidious and himself would rule together as equals
In short, it was a disaster because Sidious was a traitor to the entire Sith order, he wanted to remain in power forever, and when he died either Vader could pick up the remains or if Vader died first then Sidious would let the Sith order go exstinct once he would die of natural causes.
This info makes it sound like Bane's sith were almost Slytherin esque, or they could have been if they'd taken their mindset and just left the Jedi alone. Sidious might have been the end result of their multiplication line, but he wasn't anyone Bane would have liked either I think. Sidious was literally actually fascist and abusive, and he only ever wanted Power (tm). I don't think he ever intended to make a successor. Just, as other people have said here, slaves.
Sidious teaching method was psychological manipulation and torture bane teaching method was one of respect for the master and apprentice both sidious and Vader feared and mistrusted the other
The dark side is psychotic, back stabbing, torturing, unfeeling, amoral, selfish, codeless. The fact that the sith did and attempted to create orders or societies, was an irony, because they needed to work together in some capacity to get the power they craved, but their selfishness never allowed them to truly enjoy it, unless they had it all to themselves. Even the rule of two didn't fix the problems with the sith.
Sooooooo this whole idea about Darth Bane would never train Anakin because of a quote and yet HIS OWN APPRENTICE Darth Zannah was a youngling/padawan in the army of light.....feels like whoever wrote the book of sidious didnt read the ACTUAL Darth Bane trilogy. He literally considered her a gift from the dark side of the force.
Hate to say it but id most likely be a sith in this universe. If i were alive during palpy boy's rise and rule, I'd have thought he's as mentally weak as i do in our own universe. Dude was a bully. Real sith uplift. Ofc there's a hierarchy, but there's a bond as well. Sidious only sought to enslave and control. Weak minded af. It's no wonder he failed miserably. And continues to fail.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Sidius was so brutal with his training and treatment of vader because he saw himself as the final sith, he _never intended_ to let himself be surpassed (going as far as making sure his empire died with him). He wanted to do away with the Rule of 2, and create a rule of 1. Him. Its one of the reasons he designed Vader's suit to be specifically vulnerable to force lightening.
Exactly. Once he unlocked the secret of immortality he and Vader would live forever. How " alive " or sane poor Vader would have been is a question better left unanswered.😳🙄😒
That’s not fully true. While he did see himself as the culmination of the rule of 2 he didn’t purposefully weaken vader the suits weakness to lighting wasn’t very intentional and he openly encouraged vader to change and upgrade the suit all he wanted. He claims he had 0 issue issues with vader ending his life just as long he did as a sith and I somewhat believe that but not fully. We know he wanted the Death Star to replace vader as the face of fear. So he could force Vader to assist him in unlocking the secrets of the force but I don’t think he wanted to share the secrets with vader I fully think he sought to surpass the flesh entirely and vader to supplant as the physical form of the sith. If that couldn’t be accomplished his second best bet was for vader his greatest creation and his monster the chosen one to surpass him in power and cruelty and carry on the power of the darkside. If he died before he could accomplish his goal.
Same with Maul and Dooku. Neither was ever meant to be a true apprentice to succeed him, just pawns for his machinations
He expected Vader to be stronger, he literally said it himself but after seeing what happened to Vader he believed no one will ever surpass him and he was the ultimate Sith. Vader was no longer “worthy”.
“Look out there, Anakin. A trillion beings on this planet alone-in the galaxy as a whole, uncounted quadrillions-and of them all, I have chosen you, Anakin Skywalker, to be the heir to my power. To all that I am.”-rots novelisation
Let’s be real, unburned Vader’s potential was %200 of Sidious and Lucas said in the “making of RoTS” interview that Anakin was already strong enough to kill Sidious. Sidious also said “He’s powerful, potentially more powerful than even myself” in the novelization. He’s not stupid enough to think he would survive full potential of Vader, he expected Vader to surpass him and he was disappointed at first. “All who gain power are afraid to lose it.”
Which for Vaders ORIGINS Vader should known how to adapt to an beat... just discreetly modify his suit..then get strong enough to take the then aging Sith
Sidious was a powerful force user but a *HORRIBLE* *TEACHER*
He lost not one, not two but three different apprentices with the final one killing him and turning back to the light side.
The reason Sidious was so awful was because unlike previous Sith who at the very least respected the Sith Order and the Rule of 2.
Darth Sidious respected nothing and no one and those with no understanding of the light can never fully comprehend the dark.
Had Sidious had even a shred of humility he would have seen Darth Vader was edging back to the light and could have stopped it
Palpatine implemented the rule of one. The Rule of One essentially allowed him to be the sole Sith Lord, with numerous dark side acolytes serving under him but not being true Sith Lords themselves.
Under the Rule of One, Palpatine maintained control over the Galactic Empire, while his acolytes, such as the Inquisitors, served as his agents and enforcers. This doctrine granted Palpatine unparalleled power and authority, making him the ultimate ruler of the Sith and the galaxy. If Palpatine wasn't a good teacher Mara Jade wouldn't be good at what she does.
@@vitorpereira9515 Mara Jade was *never* a true Sith. Sidious had powerful people working for him such as Vader, Thrawn and Mara Jade but he never properly trained a true successor. And that was ultimately his undoing
@@TotalTech2. In the rule of one he wouldn't need a successor. He would be the sole sith lord with a legion of dark side adepts to be the extension of his will across the galaxy.
He intended to respect the rule of 2 , having Vader replace him. He justified removing the rule of 2 because he claimed vader was ruined when he was cut in half . But that also makes so sense, because he also claims vader was holding himself back and not because he was injured
@@MrMasterDebate Yes. I agree. Sidious destroyed literally everything he touched.
He had a rich family and killed them
He had a master who was willing to teach him immortality and killed him
He had 3 powerful apprentices and killed all 3 of them
He had 2 planet size space stations and destroyed them
He had an entire galaxy as his plaything and lost it after 2 decades.
While he is powerful and a genius it's in his nature to destroy and not to build
Funnily enough Darth Plagueis actually did give Sidious a lesson about how he should literally never bring a fallen Jedi into the Sith Order. But Plagueis decided that it was a good idea to teach Sidious this lesson while he was naked and freezing to death on an ice planet lmao
Didn't Plagueis like Dooku tho?
@@Hello-bi1pm He was actually pretty apprehensive about Dooku. Especially because of his mastery of Makashi and Curved hilted lightsaber, he really didn't like the idea of a Jedi that might be prepared for the Sith
Don't forget, Darth Bane forbid any Sith of his lineage to bring in Jedi
@@Hello-bi1pm NO, ANAKiN GOT DOOKU. WHiLE PLAGUEiS WAZ KiLLED BY SiDiOUS, & THEN ANAKiN KiLLED SiDiOUS
[NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
One more video in the "Bane is an absolute Chad" library.
"Of all the monsters I have created, I still regard Darth Vader as something of a minor masterpiece. No, he was not an entirely alchemical creation, but he was my monster nevertheless. Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time. Yes, he ultimately turned against his Master, as monsters sometimes do, but that was my fault, not his. Given the opportunity to create Vader again, I would, and with zeal."
- Palpatine
This just solidifies the fact that Sheev Palpatine actually viewed Anakin Skywalker like a son and did trust him. He does not blame Anakin for coming back and saving Luke, Sheev blamed himself. It’s very… calming for some reason.
@@TheMightOfGeburah He also took pleasure in ruining Anakin's life. Not very fatherly.
@@TheMightOfGeburahIn the Disney canon, it was revealed that Palpatine knew that a remnant of Anakin's personality was still alive within Vader's soul. He wasn't surprised by his betrayal but he definetely was pissed.
@@vitorpereira9515he didn’t take pleasure in ruining his life though, he took pleasure in having Anakin see his views and the vast potential of the Chosen One being made into a weapon of the Dark Side with his own choice. He took pleasure in convincing Anakin that the Jedi are hypocritical and not exactly as “good” , “don’t care about losing anything” and “without fear” as was believed. It’s even made clear through the whole Clone Wars show that Sidious was right about the Jedi being corrupt, closed-minded, unknowledgeable and deluded. The idea that you limit yourself to one side of The Force and not explore all of them as if they do not exist then talk about “the way of the Force” then ignoring Qui Gon’s warnings that The Force itself told him that the Sith had returned and they’re stronger than ever leading to his Death is insane in of itself, keep in mind that later on the Jedi Council spread this propaganda that “Only Sith deal in absolutes” but then say “All Sith are liars, deceivers and evil”, when Dooku straight up says that he’s not the Sith Lord, and that the actual Sith Lord (Sidious) is among them. They talk about not letting emotions and visions guide you but ignoring the visions is exactly why Anakin was consumed by Vader and the reason Sidious was able to win so handily and the reason Mace Windu almost took down Sidious. We’re even learning now that The Old Age of the Jedi and Sith were far more neutral than how blatantly abysmal the Jedi of the Order 66 Era were in comparison. Sidious was utterly powerful and could dominate The Force itself yet while evil, he at least gave others an idea of some type of Democracy as shown in material like the Bad Batch, convincing them that he’s right and gave arguments for it. Sidious was looking for a proper apprentice for a while to replace/surpass/succeed him even if they ended up killing him in the process. There are many novels, guides and materials that explain this little concept and most aren’t even “Legends” since George Lucas had a hand in them. The worst part was that Sidious told the Jedi to deal with Anakin and they could stop all that he is attempting to do, he did this to Yoda and Yoda just ignored it… and it literally explains how Yoda immediately knew Anakin was Vader right off the bat too. Keep in mind, Yoda had to learn that the Dark Side is in every being and that you can’t just ignore it. Sidious had more faith in Anakin than the Jedi did and that’s… very concerning…
Sidious was definitely evil but even he had principles.
@@Ultriac301 well to be fair if I was betrayed I’d be pissed too.
Darth Bane actually bothered to train his apprentice. Maul was trained in battle facilities and by earning experience through assassination missions, Tyranus was taught Force Lightning and perhaps a minor knowledge of Sith alchemy but Vader was treated only as a cybernetic boogeyman, " punching bag " and bait to draw out enemies. All that while also testing Vader against potential replacements of his such as a revived Darth Maul.
Sidious treated apprentices like basketball shoes. wear them down and swap them out after harsh use make them fall apart lmao. Bane had a goal in mind for the chain of sith lines. but Sidious never intended for there to be another sith after him.
Sidious really only used the rule of two as a formality. He used Maul, he used Dooku, and he used Vader. Everyone was a pawn to him, especially his apprentices.
You're back again! Keep making legends videos
Emperor, "Why would you throw me to my doom. I treated you so unwell.... I just answer my own question. Fair enough."
1:54 And this is why you're my FAVORITE Star Wars channel ever and I'm SO glad you're back. Thank you SO much. I hate Disney Canon, couldn't care less for it, but I don't mind you covering it I just like to know what's canon versus Legends and I appreciate you specifying SO deeply!
Another key difference was, unlike Bane, Sidious never intended for his apprentice to replace him, believing that the Rule of Two had served its purpose and there was no need for Vader to surpass him. His arrogance and self importance doomed the Sith
"Your arrogance blinds you"
-someone who doesn't know what a mirror is
You should check why Sidious hated Vitiate! THey're very different even in why they want to become immortal or more powerful
He originally did until Anakin needed the suit
@@theguybehindyou4762Luke said that his pride shall be his downfall .
So glad your back.
I would like to add that the ultimate goals of bane and sidious were different. Bane wanted the sith line to continue and grow stronger. Sidious had no intention of continuing the sith order as he believed banes rule of 2 culminated in himself and that he was the end goal bane started.
Sidious approach has always baffled me. "Let's rule the galaxy by me teaching you NOTHING!!!"
He teaches someone the same way he destroys an enemy; dangle hope in front of them, then rip it away.
IF NOT FOR MEEEEEEEeeeeeee……….
Then for the return of the Non Cannon Expert!
Then, for whatever topic related to the thing he spent the whole video talking about. Vader should have either killed this idiot or forced his own end at this goofballs hand. These comics make me hate Palpatine more, while at the same time lose respect for Vader. At the beginning of "Return of the Jedi " Palpatine refers to Vader as "My Friend." I'd like to see something that tells Palpatine " Alright, I'd better stop trying to torture this guy, and take him very seriously." And for Darth Bane then.
For Darth Bane's common sense!
@@kaidorade1317 But this is canon.
Then for Cheetos
I think Palpatine was so disappointed with Anakins LOSS to Obi-Wan at Mustafar, that he gave up training him as a punishment towards him
Perfect. It is not possible for the Rule of Two model to thrive if there isn't respect. I've always seen it as an un reasonable model by mistakenly assuming Sidious was a good reference to previous Sith. Thanks for the video.
Nope literally no one else wanted their apprentices to hate them except in the short term sense (I. E tough training for which any sane person would later be grateful)
Sidious had no intention of training a successor. He wanted tools and servants, but he saw himself as the pinnacle of the sith order. Fear and pain keep the servants in line.
The way sidious trained his apprentice was the reason why they all failed on their first encounter because he sucked at harnessing their power.
And the way he treated them was eventually the reason why he was betrayed in the end by Vader
His history of betrayal had to have been in Vader's mind for a while, and was likely a big reason why he broke free of him in the end.
Sidious was more likely a madman than an evil Sith. He care little for any of the ideas of Darth Bane. He circumvented the rule of two in many ways, the inquisitors, allowing Vader to have Starkiller. And I don't think Maul or Tyranus were ever ment to follow Sidious, and not Vader either. Sidious wanted to rule alone forever from the start. How early he wanted to rule forever is hinted in his own fascination with Plageius presumed "keeping people alive". I assume from the moment he understood the implications of Plageius research, he decided to be the final and immortal Sith Lord. Also looking how he mismanaged the Empire, letting only the worst and most inept rise to positions, himself more and more caring about finding more Sithmagic shows, he lost all ambition of a true Sith, like caring at all about his Empire and ensuring a continuation of the Sith in the case he would die. In his view, if he died, the Sith might as well end.
Darth Sidious: I AM the senate!😡
Emperor Caligula: I made my horse a legitimate member of the Roman imperial senate.😊
Darth Sidious: And they call ME crazy!!!😫
Welcome back dude
It's always good to see you Pateesa!
A video of the Lore Master... always such a pleasure
Sidious became slightly complacent once his empire was established and just thought that if Vader was powerful enough to survive his injury's then maybe he didn't really need to put any effort into training him like he did his former student's. Plus vader was the 'chosen one' and most of his training took place during the clone wars so Sidious was more concerned about vaders mental state after he was turned rather than training him as he would maul. Im sure he didn't really put much effort into training Dooku either as he was already incredibly skilled and had all the tools needed to function alone without constant supervision from Sidious. Sidious took the same approach with Vader, which was a mistake on his part as vader needed far more help adjusting to his new situation and Sidious just assumed Vader's obsession with his past life would just fade away, and it never did, and if Sidious trained him to really let go of those thoughts then maybe vader redeeming himself and being conflicted later would never have happened...
It's always been fascinating to see that Bane and Zannah were essentially normal people compared to some of their successors. Sure, Bane came from an abusive household and spend periods of time fighting his fellow miners on Apatros, but he was an otherwise well-adjusted person and popular among his comrades in the Sith army. Zannah was a child dragged into a war by the Jedi and lost her friends, but she wasn't some power hungry, raging psychopath by adulthood. Both Bane and Zannah chose the Sith willingly, and they recognized that they were just the first members of a lineage.
Sidious, on the other hand, reveled in power, manipulation and cruelty for cruelty's sake. He wished to rule forever, all-powerful and immortal, and even his apprentices were tools to be used rather than genuine heirs to his power.
So glad you are posting again. We had feared you had joined the force. Glad to be back enjoying your vids. If not for me….Welcome back !!!
Best Star Wars analysis channel on RUclips. You've been away too long...and btw, KEEP THE DARTH BANE VIDEOS COMING!🙏 (LOL little rusty on the "if not for me's though).
Thank you for the great video!!!
2:30
*Imperial officers and soldiers under Vader:* Yeah, not funny anymore, isn't it?
Also look at how Vader trained Starkiller - Vader would constantly test him but it wasn’t about sadistic glee, there was purpose behind it. Make him the best or die trying.
Glad your video are back great work
Bane wanted to further the Sith Order. Sidious wanted to further himself.
Love that you're back
There was wisdom in Sidious' choice to take Vader on as his apprentice. As Vader was among the greatest Jedi warriors to fight in the Clone War, he'd naturally have a good understanding of Jedi fighting forms, tactics and combative Force abilities, and how to counter them. This would make Vader the ideal executioner for the survivors of Order 66.
To be fair…there were plenty of Sith Masters who didn’t follow Bane’s rules as written. Hell , one dude decided to destroy a collection of information. That’s not even addressing the ways Sith like Sidious killed their master. The original plan was to duel your master in 1v1 combat as a means to show that you are stronger. Too many Sith stab their masters in the back. Granted it’s their natural instinct as Sith.
Here's what I don't get: Sidious wrote himself:
Choose someone as a successor and you will inevitably be succeeded.
Choose someone hungrier and you will be devoured.
Choose someone quicker and you won't dodge the blade at your back.
Choose someone with more patience and you won't block the blade at your throat.
Choose someone more devious and you'll hold the blade that kills you.
Choose someone more clever and you'll never know your end.
Despite these cautions, an apprentice is essential. A Master without an apprentice is a Master of nothing.
So he *_KNEW_* ultimately Vader had to get rid of him, yet he decided to try and do what? Rule with his apprentice as emperor forever? He's not an apprentice anymore then! Palpatine was always full of these little contradictions.
Wish there was a way to combine the best aspects of both the EU and disney. EU is a lot better and often had way better stories, but it also wasn't perfect either, and did have some issues every now and then. Disney canon is overall not as good, but there are some interesting things made in the disney canon and some things were fixed. I'd combine the best aspects of both to make the best kind of Star Wars.
First time listening to one of your videos and it was a banger. You're coming out the corner swinging sir, you've got my subscription 😎
When did the change happen between how Bane trained to how Sidious trained?
Sidious was a lunatic, so there’s that.
Good to see you
Just to play devil advocate's and entratain the topic: Sidious is not 100% to blame for his teachings backfiring on him, as they aren't even his per se: he just copied and tried to build upon how Darth Plaguesis trained him, which in turn is how the later was trained by Darth Tenebrous. Plaguesis' novel paints a clear picture that, at some point, Bane's mentality of "Respect > Fear" faded; to the point of Plaguesis killing of Tenebrous and Sidious killing of Plaguesis being less because of the Grand Plan and more because of revenge, as both were humiliated and tortured in their deaths, which also were opportnuistic backstabing betrayals instead of honored duels: their respective aprentices feared them so much to the point they wouldn't even consider direct combat. Much of this also applies to Maul and Vader, albeit in the later's case, his feeling of love and guilt were the major part of the equation in his case; as for the former, he never got the chance and not even considered it until returning in the Clone Wars, and even then still doubt that he could pull it off.
Bane also intended to body jump, and it was probably easier to possess Zannah if she wasn't expecting deception?
I have no idea why everybody says that. That was a backup because he was getting old. He did it in that fight because a master has to throw everything at the apprentice. If he possessed Zannah, then she was to weak to be worthy. Those saying he never intended to be overthrown are wrong.
Damn!!! So Vader and Bane trained they're own apprentice mirroring each other
Two days in a row?? I surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
So he skipped the chapter on "why you shouldn't throw your master down a bottomless chute". Everything else preceded exactly as he had forseen. Mostly.
But, Sidious created Anakin to be “the chosen one”. Had he not done that, there would have never been a Darth Vader for Bane to train.
Sidious never wanted to teach him enough to overthrow him. Pretty simple.
But did zannah really beat bane? I have my doubts, and i think the novel wants us to have doubts. In the last moments of their duel, bane tries to overtake zannahs body. He has had issues with his hand before that, and when the duel is over zannah looks at her Hand fascinated and moves and flexes it. Isnt that a hint that bane took over and was now zannah in disguise?
For Darth Bane?
For him I definitively leave a like!
You're absolutely right on almost everything. However, Vader, post-Mustafar, in his Cybernetic Suit (a Failure that Bane would probably have prevented in the first place), was suffering from Constant & Extreme Chronic Pain, so there was no way around this.
Vader HAD to learn to use his Physical and Emotional Pain as a Driving Force, to transmute his Pain into Fuel for Power.
However, Vader DID NOT need to be Tortured by his Master, as you said. Bane would have had to address the issue of Vader's Pain to turn it into Strength, which is a HUGE challenge in and of itself (I know oh so well as I've been suffering from extreme chronic pa¡n for over a decade), but in the Star Wars Universe, with the Dark Side of the Force, an endless supply of Pain is definitely a huge plus for a Sith Lord, as it offers an immense Pool to tap into and gain Power from.
That maybe one thing, but mentally, I think Vader lacks something and Sidious also said that. The power of a Sith is not gained and expressed not only through one's physical conditions or how sensitive they are to the Force naturally, but will, focus and self-esteem. I remember some parts saying Vader's sense of guilt for his wife's death inhibits him from full focus into the dark side, which could have amplified his strength even further. Zannah and Bane don't have that kind of guilt towards those they hurt. First, they accepted what is gone is gone and step forward, second, they remember that emotional turmoil soaring to help them achieve that power again. But then they also see that milestone being something that motivates them even more. I think Bane and Zannah don't really feel prideful in their own progression despite how far they have run, humility never hampers them, it enhances their drive, reminds them that there is something waiting for them. That pride is for their students, when they see the first milestone, then another, another, until the day they fall by their student's hands. They are proud that they are awesome teachers to bear such an amazing student, and they are proud that the student is mature enough to take their place.
@@BuiTrung-kk4gbppl don’t got time to read yo essays
Palpatine's use of pain and fear is also why the empire collapsed as well.
Love this analysis, but I would prefer if only EU material were used
Well everyone, as of today, April 25th, 2024, it is now 10 years since The Star Wars Expanded Universe was decanonized. A moment of remembrance for all the lore, adventures, characters, and stories that are all now "Legends".
Darth Vader hated Darth Sidious so much that Vader was able to absorb sufficient Force Lightning to make his bones glow through his black armor. And to survive for a short time thereafter. That was the power of the Dark Side. You could say that he was Anakin again at that point, but I would argue that stopping that much power had to be a serious Sith feat.
I’m hoping for a retcon one day where Darth Vader actually beats down Sidious.
Vader COULD use Force Lightning, but he would damage his armor. Yet there are great “What If” stories here on YT where Vader was able to heal or rebuild himself to the point his full potential was realized, and he was able to defeat Sidious. The DV comics almost did it a few years back, where Vader finally had enough and went after Sidious on Exegol. Vader’s rage was.INCENDIARY at that point, but the author chose to play it safe. We were robbed of the exact moment I was hoping for!!!! I stopped reading the series at that point, because we the readers were set-up by the writing.
All who have power are afraid to lose it.
Can you join forces with Darth Melvin leader of the knights of Melvin in avenging Star Wars ? Make a video together of something fun
Everything Palpi did was a disaster for the order
Rey kills him he is weak
Such great content!
I wonder what pain, anger and fear Sidious had to get his power if it's so important.
Despite all of Darth Bane’s teachings, I think he loved his apprentice as a daughter. He didn’t treat her the way that other Sith treated their apprentices
Forcing fear on someone will only cause them to lash out in the end.
You’re Always going to be My Favourite Force-Attuned Archivist.
I would just love to know what Sidious's plan for Vader would be if he didnt lose a majority of his power on Mustafar.
There is no way Vader would have taken all that abuse from Palpatine if he didnt have the suit on.
Bane used cruelty as a tool, Sidious clearly enjoyed it.
Like Luke said, Sidious's overconfidence and arrogance became his downfall, especially when Palpatine acted/behaved like a spoiled brat with zero honor towards his apprentices. Bane was the true Sith Lord because he respected Zannah and taught confidence with humility instead of fear and pain; therefore, Bane's method of training Zannah leads to much better results than what Palpatine did to Vader and his past apprentices because Sidious really is an untamed immature wild animal fearing his own downfall.
Sidous issue with vader was he contradicted himself. He definitely had 0 issues with vader surpassing him and eagerly wanted him to live up to his full potential but he at the same time believed it was Vader’s responsibility to accomplish this by some how getting all the knowledge from sidous that he didn’t want to give.
How about the CIS battle droid variant and how they threatened the clone troopers
Quite curious how it would've turned out, if Sidious had killed Anakin on Mustafar when he found him on the lava bank
Counterpoint
The baneite sith enacting the grand plan during millenia had to be different from how Sidious when he won. He didnt need a sucessor to continue the plan, he needed an enforcer of his will in the galaxy. Way different conditions they lived in and I dont think Vader would ever be a very capabable ruler.
Vader is pretty intelligent and quick-learning man. Government won't be hard once Vader is ready and mature enough. Military, that's one thing, diplomatics, he knows his stuff
But doesn't this sound too much like selfless Jedi training, why would brutal Sith training reinforce the light, and Bane's respectful training reinforce Sith's zeal to selflessly give up their lives for the Grand Plan? This is too contradictory to the nature of the Sith.
YOUR ALIVE?!
Are you sure it was Zanah that talked to Cognas?
Sidious believed he outgrew the rule of 2 and was the true sith, which is why he saught immortality.
Sidious did believe he outgrew the rule of 2 but all sith lords strive to become immortal. Plagus actually ended the rule of 2 because he thought sidious and himself would rule together as equals
For Darth Bane!!
In short, it was a disaster because Sidious was a traitor to the entire Sith order, he wanted to remain in power forever, and when he died either Vader could pick up the remains or if Vader died first then Sidious would let the Sith order go exstinct once he would die of natural causes.
I am SOO damn sick to DEATH of hearing about "what is, and what is NOT, Canon!!"
It drives me to distraction.
For Bane!!!
He was to busy to train him properly emperor and teacher tough gig
Darth Bane deserves our respect and admiration.
There IS no other way....! 😐
This info makes it sound like Bane's sith were almost Slytherin esque, or they could have been if they'd taken their mindset and just left the Jedi alone. Sidious might have been the end result of their multiplication line, but he wasn't anyone Bane would have liked either I think. Sidious was literally actually fascist and abusive, and he only ever wanted Power (tm). I don't think he ever intended to make a successor. Just, as other people have said here, slaves.
Bane was different in one huge way compared to Sidious. Bane was not a psychopath.
Sidious teaching method was psychological manipulation and torture bane teaching method was one of respect for the master and apprentice both sidious and Vader feared and mistrusted the other
So in reality Darth Maul out of Darth Tyranus & Darth Vader is the true sith apprentice 🤷🏿♂️👊🏿😎😂
lol, says the same thing literally 5 different ways. respect for the grind tho! ;)
If Bane was Vaders master it would have been done right.
And who was more successful in there respected time and ages?
Sidious was just a psychopath. The Sith path was little more than an outlet for him to channel his psychopathy.
The dark side is psychotic, back stabbing, torturing, unfeeling, amoral, selfish, codeless. The fact that the sith did and attempted to create orders or societies, was an irony, because they needed to work together in some capacity to get the power they craved, but their selfishness never allowed them to truly enjoy it, unless they had it all to themselves. Even the rule of two didn't fix the problems with the sith.
You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master. ~ Darth
~ For Darth Bane!!!
Sooooooo this whole idea about Darth Bane would never train Anakin because of a quote and yet HIS OWN APPRENTICE Darth Zannah was a youngling/padawan in the army of light.....feels like whoever wrote the book of sidious didnt read the ACTUAL Darth Bane trilogy. He literally considered her a gift from the dark side of the force.
Babe himself was a jedi
Thank you for not becoming a Disney SW Shill
Palp teaching Vader? Lol actual lessons..no..., mental help sure but Vader didn't listen
Sounds like visiate
I left a like for Darth Bane!
Algorithm
Hate to say it but id most likely be a sith in this universe. If i were alive during palpy boy's rise and rule, I'd have thought he's as mentally weak as i do in our own universe. Dude was a bully. Real sith uplift. Ofc there's a hierarchy, but there's a bond as well. Sidious only sought to enslave and control. Weak minded af. It's no wonder he failed miserably. And continues to fail.
Yeah well…Darth Bane didn’t destroy the Jedi and take over the entire galaxy.
👍
Did Sidious teach anything?