This Video will turn you into a Space Marine painting GOD.

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  • Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
  • In this video you will learn ALL the techniques for creating the most popular Space Marine Chapters in a Grimdark style - A Compendium of all the Grimdark Space Marines I ever painted! I cover most of the popular chapter colors as well as how to adapt the technique to bright and very dark chapter colors.
    If you have any questions, join our community discord
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    A lot of the music in the later parts of the video is by Karl Casey ‪@WhiteBatAudio‬
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    This channel is about painting miniatures for your warhammer, infinity, warmachine & d&d games, as well as age of sigmar and warhammer 40k. space marines, space wolves, sisters of battle, stormcast eternals, beastclaw raiders, mawtribes, cities of sigmar, chaos space marines. Also painting different scale models and miniature busts! How to paint NMM. How to paint warhammer, how to paint D&D figures.

Комментарии • 361

  • @StriketheRunes
    @StriketheRunes 11 месяцев назад +63

    Time stamps for people looking for specific schemes:
    0:00 Blood Angels (red)
    23:01 Black Templars (black)
    48:16 Imperial Fists (yellow)
    1:06:04 Ultramarines (blue)
    1:20:46 Dark Angels Deathwing (bone)
    1:36:21 Salamanders (green)

  • @Magmadon
    @Magmadon Год назад +2

    Dude casually drops a nearly 2 hour painting vid. Holy crap! Thank you man, gonna give this a go for my Howling Griffons!

  • @MrSquidshark
    @MrSquidshark Год назад +2

    'Don't be afraid, it's only paint' thanks, I needed to hear this.

  • @garycarney484
    @garycarney484 Год назад +9

    Truly amazing as always. I would like to see you do Grimdark with the different chapters of chaos space marines. Thank you for what you do. 😊

    • @coreyburge8663
      @coreyburge8663 Год назад

      Yes me too, about to get into 40k with Chaos Space Marines!

  • @SeppukoGaming
    @SeppukoGaming Год назад +1

    I finally found the time to watch this. I have watched each of the videos in the past, but rewatching still felt rewarding and gave me a motivation boost and some inspiration.
    "Fork" the time it takes, focus on enjoyment, and aim for your best shot is pretty much what I took from this.
    Comments for the algorithm god, and watchtime for his throne

  • @svendironheart6073
    @svendironheart6073 3 месяца назад

    I wasn't actually looking for a grim dark tutorial, but I thought it sounded interesting!
    I just started painting, and this really gave me some ideas, and techniques to try out on my sylvaneth army!
    Thank you so much man!

  • @Animaedamnatae
    @Animaedamnatae Год назад +385

    Grimdark isn’t about the end results, it’s about the friends we made along the way.

    • @L3GHO5T
      @L3GHO5T Год назад +8

      The journey brother!

    • @mitchellenderson7194
      @mitchellenderson7194 Год назад +15

      I found the Salamander

    • @ShutUpWesley
      @ShutUpWesley Год назад +5

      That sounds like the complete opposite of Grim Dark.
      What you said is more Amiable Light😅

    • @peterclarke7006
      @peterclarke7006 Год назад +6

      Friends?
      FRIENDS?!?!
      HERETIC!!! FETCH THE FLAMER, BROTHERS!!!! THE *HEAVY* FLAMER!!!!

    • @gregorysmillie2008
      @gregorysmillie2008 Год назад +2

      Enemies we made along the way. No friends.

  • @StefanTarras
    @StefanTarras 4 месяца назад

    I'm loving your videos. Total newb here but I find much value in watching your techniques as it gives me ideas on how I can make improvements. Thank you!

  • @moognothing5341
    @moognothing5341 Год назад +1

    YAAAAAS, love your painting style, your videos have had a a profound influence on my painting and desire to paint, glad i get to see more of the process

  • @JohnR1298
    @JohnR1298 11 месяцев назад

    The spray of varnish would seal in the graphite highlighting 👍

  • @ghazevedo
    @ghazevedo Год назад

    I need to confesso that I was skeptical with the black templar but when you put the final highlight and metal edge highlight it just tied everything and really worked. Amazing

  • @MrMarbolous
    @MrMarbolous Год назад +2

    I love this. The Blood Angel is sort of a template for my Word Bearers Kill Team right now. I would very much love to see this technique on some models with more details such as trim (CSM) or maybe just decoration (like Custodes). Anyway I really love this and the fact that you teach things that are approachable for beginners and intermediate painters and which are also fast and have the potential to grow with practice. In contrast I feel that I am much more limited with a technique like slap chop when it comes to "growth".

  • @conquest4211
    @conquest4211 Год назад

    Been big fan of this series since came out. This truely how image warhammer to feel and look. have (no prob with peoples ultra clean, but doesnt always missing dark feel) Every time you post new one these always give me urge to paint

  • @tombrand236
    @tombrand236 11 месяцев назад

    Great video! Love the painting and the commentary. Plus some funny bits too.

  • @nacidocoqui
    @nacidocoqui 11 месяцев назад +1

    This who video is an amazing look into some truly jaw-dropping results, and each one is spectacular in its own way; they remind me of pictures of battle-worn tanks, but bipedal. But that shield... by the Emperor, that shield! 1:32:41

  • @kylek1119
    @kylek1119 Год назад

    As I currently have to paint and base a Chaos Marine army in time for a tournament in two months, the timing here could not be better.

  • @joshbernal4864
    @joshbernal4864 2 месяца назад

    Man I really felt that at 22:54

  • @samstaley5162
    @samstaley5162 11 месяцев назад

    Love the Dark Angel - almost tempted to switch chapters by the video, almost.

  • @grimdarksun
    @grimdarksun Год назад

    I'm doing my part!
    (also, I've used these tuts more than a few times!)

  • @derekgarcia3069
    @derekgarcia3069 11 месяцев назад

    This is a fantastic collection of tutorials!

  • @figurehe4d
    @figurehe4d 9 месяцев назад

    These results are incredible.

  • @madrobot711
    @madrobot711 9 месяцев назад

    No words, what a master class!

  • @Killjoy120
    @Killjoy120 Год назад

    Absolutely love this style. How would you recommend taking a cleanly painted model, perfectly flat base colours, with nothing but a wash and edge highlight? Always tried to paint as close to eavy metal style that my skill would allow, and taking it closer to this?

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  Год назад

      spongechipping the edges and stippling on a few highlights on the surfaces with the brush

  • @solghyst
    @solghyst Год назад

    Id love to see this done with a metallic , I’d prefer to see Iron Warriors but I’d settle for Knights of the Raven Space Marines.

  • @itsallpointless6501
    @itsallpointless6501 Год назад

    That ultramarine was awesome

  • @SwabianClancy
    @SwabianClancy Год назад

    I have to admit it's not quite my style as I would like my Salamandesr to be, but it's a technique I'll certainly try a time or two to improve my style. Thanks for the input!

  • @MisterGeof
    @MisterGeof Год назад

    Pssst... I saw that this video is close to 2 hours. I know the RUclipsz doesn't usually like this length of video.. but I am SO here for it.

  • @Lady_Rhea
    @Lady_Rhea Год назад

    Thank you for yet another excellent video

  • @THESIXTHEGG
    @THESIXTHEGG 7 месяцев назад

    Look just like the way Midwinter minis did it.

  • @ch-sqpopay9949
    @ch-sqpopay9949 Год назад +3

    hey Trovarion! ever considered doing a TMM Grimdark Custodes? Pls ❤

    • @andresperedo1275
      @andresperedo1275 Год назад

      The Emperor's power keeps them clean and shiny

    • @ch-sqpopay9949
      @ch-sqpopay9949 Год назад

      well yah, maybe... but i would adore them to se at least once in a real Grimdark tone

    • @lacreatura6132
      @lacreatura6132 Год назад +1

      This!

    • @Zanname
      @Zanname Год назад

      ​@@ch-sqpopay9949look up grimdark compendium. They got a while.

  • @scholaprogenium5852
    @scholaprogenium5852 11 месяцев назад

    This is an incredible video. Any chance chance you would do Heresy Emperors Children, I feel like purple would have a lot of it's own quirks.

  • @nightingale4632
    @nightingale4632 9 месяцев назад

    Hmmm do you think starting with a dark silver and then moving into gold would be a good choice for custodes?

  • @loadedgun28
    @loadedgun28 Год назад +1

    Amazing video, I love your work. Why no Space Wolves?

  • @grassandgrease
    @grassandgrease 8 месяцев назад

    Hii there, would it be possible to use slighty more complex GW minis than the standard space marines, CSM for example, still a space marine, but allot more details in there, it would really help getting your take on black legion for example.

  • @BrokenKrayon
    @BrokenKrayon Год назад

    Don't suppose you have a similar stippled/sponged acrylic paint, grimdark gold video?

  • @MaxiTurb0
    @MaxiTurb0 10 месяцев назад

    Love your videos! I would like to start repainting my space Marines from 20 years ago, and selling them afterwards in order to have some income to purchase new models to play Kill Team. Which chapter do you recommend to paint? I have them bad painted as Black Templars. I don't know if there is any "worther" than other. I don't have any preference: loved BT, Iron Fist, Blood Angels, Salamanders but they are standard

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  10 месяцев назад

      no idea, I don't game, sorry.

  • @peterlageri4177
    @peterlageri4177 Год назад

    You asked for help by playing this video in its entirety. I’ve done so now. I hope it helps.

  • @nikolashug4619
    @nikolashug4619 9 месяцев назад

    I love these minis, i don't like highlighting black with blue though. Could the black templar be hughlighted with black and grey? I'll probably try it myself, but wondering if anyone else has tried the process without using blue and dark blue to highlight black.

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  9 месяцев назад

      You can do whatever you like. All your decissions should depend on what endresult you want. Personally i find "grey" extremely boring and I am just offering my perspective - but of course that doesn't mean you have to agree. They are your minis after all, paint them the way you enjoy them.

  • @anthonyadkins7487
    @anthonyadkins7487 11 месяцев назад

    I have a new favorite technique!

  • @frazer1988
    @frazer1988 Месяц назад

    I have to be honest the Black Templar doesn’t look anything like a Black Templar imo, looks too blue and the shoulders were over done.
    I loved the Blood Angel though!

  • @LittleIAO
    @LittleIAO Год назад

    @Trovarion this is an awesome series but I'd be very curious how you would do Grimdark on a metal armor instead. Here you're relying on schemes that are all colors. What if the model is done in steel?

  • @isisnmagic1812
    @isisnmagic1812 Год назад

    The carpet monster is real 😂

  • @Einarrovsky
    @Einarrovsky 10 месяцев назад

    Hey guys, anybody knows which Metal Color he applies at 34:41 for the metallic highlights etc? Couldnt see the name on shaken bottle, he also doesnt mention the exact name. Looks kinda silverish when painted, and im not sure if its steel one, or some other

  • @lacunalunacy
    @lacunalunacy Год назад

    Yo, are you wearing a shirt from Transmetropolitan? Where can I get one of those?

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  Год назад

      Nope. They are tshirts with my logos: teespring.com/de/stores/trovarion-fanshop-and-apparel

  • @grimmriffer
    @grimmriffer Год назад

    I haven't looked into liquid pigments at all, but, my brain keeps saying "surely a liquid pigment is .... a paint..?". 🤔

  • @EyeOnTheTV
    @EyeOnTheTV 7 месяцев назад

    do you have a specific sponge brand you use?

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  7 месяцев назад

      I use random packaging sponges. kitchen sponges work too. Ultimately it's more about needing to experiment a bit with loading and getting rid of the paint and see what patterns they create.

  • @kanifis
    @kanifis Год назад

    19:35 had me confused af

  • @gaborevanyics4434
    @gaborevanyics4434 7 месяцев назад

    What is the units name you first paint? Never seen that half dotted - half clear helmet.

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  7 месяцев назад

      I have no idea what you mean. All of them except the imperial fist are primaris space marines.

    • @gaborevanyics4434
      @gaborevanyics4434 7 месяцев назад

      @@trovarion Ehhhm, sorry. My bad. It was the second one with the tabard under the belly and chains on the bolter. So it's probably some black templar crusader. Im new to the hobby....

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  7 месяцев назад +1

      @@gaborevanyics4434 It's a black templar model, I think primaris initiate is what they call them.

    • @gaborevanyics4434
      @gaborevanyics4434 7 месяцев назад

      @@trovarion Thanks!

  • @t.m9341
    @t.m9341 10 месяцев назад

    Speed paint ?

  • @felixgrimm2039
    @felixgrimm2039 13 дней назад

    wie würde ein death company marine in grimdark aussehen ?

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  12 дней назад

      Würd ich wie den black templar bemalen

  • @longle88
    @longle88 Год назад +1

    so tired of speed painting videos. it's my bobby, i do for fun, i dont need to speed through it. Christoph shows us the way to enjoy the hobby.

  • @Nigelius
    @Nigelius Год назад +187

    I think the thing that I enjoy the most about your work is how you consistently present the rationale to your approach, it’s less a case of “do this, do that” and more “here’s why I’m doing this”. It makes your videos infinitely more easy to digest. Also your explanation of what you interpret as grimdark goes a long way to explain your approach in the first place.

    • @Astrospill
      @Astrospill Год назад +1

      I wish he did them in separate videos. While it is interesting to see his rationale and how he reached certain conclusions sometimes I just want to see painting tips/tutorials and don't have time to watch 2 hours of hum "figuring it out"

    • @jason2089
      @jason2089 Год назад +6

      ​@@Astrospill There are dozens upon dozens of other channels doing short videos. You seem to want something that is easy to find elsewhere. Should a youtube channel switch styles to be like all the others?

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  Год назад +15

      ​@@Astrospillall of these videos are available as seperate videos on my channel? 🤔

  • @Picosaurus
    @Picosaurus Год назад +55

    As a regular viewer, I’m commenting to show the algorithm how much I enjoy these long form videos! Maybe my experience will help it reach more viewers 😅

  • @JonBius
    @JonBius Год назад +134

    Thank you for taking a deeper look at Grim Dark than just " slosh on some streaking grime". It really is more of a mental and emotional aesthetic attempting to convey the hopelessness of the reality in that imagined time. I appreciate the work you do and the thoughtfulness with which you approach it.

    • @DiggitySlice
      @DiggitySlice Год назад +3

      What if your chapter of Space Marines are clean freaks?

    • @torok8974
      @torok8974 Год назад

      @@DiggitySliceyou can make it clean and dramatik, you do not need mud to be dramatik

    • @poggestfrog
      @poggestfrog Год назад +1

      @@DiggitySlice You could have really shiny and clean armour with bright blood or something that shows the emotionless, "robotic" side to Space Marines, perhaps?

    • @willerwin3201
      @willerwin3201 Год назад +1

      ​@@DiggitySlice Molotow Liquid Chrome + Allclad II = mirror finish that's durable to handle on a tabletop. You will have *the shiniest space marines ever.*

  • @WD4wg
    @WD4wg Год назад +29

    The biggest thing I get from watching your videos is just to trust the process. I often get too hung up on avoiding mistakes and I end up not pushing the paintjob further. I'd love to see you do something for space Wolves, Grey is a hard colour to get interesting!

  • @chris-k6v
    @chris-k6v Год назад +13

    i cant count the times i watched this .its such a pleasure watching the best mini painter on u tube . the technique , the explanation . you have helped my mini painting go to a new level .thank you

  • @Canty117
    @Canty117 Год назад +17

    I've been working at a blue-grey colour scheme in this style adapted to my own tastes. Thanks for inspiring me to try something different after 14 years of doing similar things and not having the courage to change things up. I realised after painting my second mini that I'd been falling out of love with the hobby and this has been just the thing to rekindle the joy I felt when I first started.

    • @thedonkeysmonkey3586
      @thedonkeysmonkey3586 11 месяцев назад

      What colors are you using? I‘m think about doing a similar thing for Space Wolves. A transition from a darker grey into a grey blue

  • @Typhoon_FGR4
    @Typhoon_FGR4 Год назад +9

    This couldn’t be any better timed.
    I’ve already watched your Grimdark videos several times over in preparation to try the style myself.
    Now I can watch this and procrastinate painting just a little longer!

  • @MoonkeyMod
    @MoonkeyMod Год назад +2

    I am already a space marine painting god, but I will hear you out as I am merely a minor deity!

  • @wolf40k
    @wolf40k Год назад +5

    I'm going to paint my marines as Legion of the damned, but I've held off as I haven't seen a black armor scheme that I've liked, this was awesome. It's exactly what I needed

  • @an0nycat
    @an0nycat Год назад +5

    *Our favorite Austrian artist with the mustache.*

  • @scenczyk1429
    @scenczyk1429 Год назад +6

    I think what you were describing about not viewing painting as clearly defined stages transfers to anything in life, and using your understanding of something to be more fluid with your actions is so beneficial. It's also such a massive confidence booster using your own knowledge

  • @Typhoonatlas
    @Typhoonatlas 5 месяцев назад +3

    This 1 video tells you 80% of what you need to do for most painting. Amazing stuff

  • @588holly
    @588holly Год назад +1

    So, thoughts on space wolves painting scheme: base colors, highlights?

  • @King_of_Sofa
    @King_of_Sofa Месяц назад +1

    You're probably the best space marine painter in the world

  • @khyron6
    @khyron6 10 месяцев назад +1

    Wow, Great job. Your one of the Best I've seen. Thanks, You Rock. :)

  • @TheDebildriver
    @TheDebildriver Год назад +3

    Your,, grimdark" videos are simply amazing, i'm always looking forward for the next one

  • @EtBr1978
    @EtBr1978 Год назад +3

    The difference once the model is properly dried always amazes me! I don't know anything about mini painting but from hours of watching youtube videos! I really enjoy just watching the process!

  • @z3r0tonine
    @z3r0tonine Год назад +3

    Amazing work, both painting and teaching other pigment pushers!

  • @terakilzero5188
    @terakilzero5188 11 месяцев назад +2

    would love too see your grimdark take on Dark Angels in the green armour. Love the finished results of this technique. Keep up the good work. :)

  • @JumpyWizard00
    @JumpyWizard00 Год назад +2

    I'd love to see you do this on a Chaos model! Seeing how you would incorporate your grimdark style to metallic trim would be great!

  • @michaelbrian219
    @michaelbrian219 9 месяцев назад +1

    Exquisite workmanship, beautifully painted and weathered.

  • @mapleflavouredsyrup
    @mapleflavouredsyrup 3 месяца назад +1

    As a relative newbie to the hobby, this has been fantastic in making me think/move beyond the same old steps!

  • @matthewnungesser5638
    @matthewnungesser5638 Год назад +7

    This was the almost exact method issued on my orks back in the early 2000s, and I had tons of wonderful painters tell me that this method is garbage and they would never do that on their space marines.. now, since videos like this have come out, most of them are starting to paint this way..

  • @ovan2190
    @ovan2190 Год назад +3

    This is definitely one of my favorite series you've done. It's helped me try to be more aware of where I place colors but also with experiment with how I paint I even started mixing contrast and shades. This was fun to watch all of these in one video

  • @Godonstilts
    @Godonstilts Год назад +1

    Most YT videos: "2 hours?! Pfft, ain't nobody got time for that"
    Tovarion YT video: "2 hours?! Oh yeah baby, strap me in!"

  • @Black_Blow_Fly
    @Black_Blow_Fly Год назад +1

    You fixed the finger, cheers

  • @nikkizerocool9101
    @nikkizerocool9101 Год назад +1

    YES!!! THE ULTIMATE GRIMDARK PAINTING VIDEO!!! Thank you for this, my favorite is still the Black Templars 😊

  • @Xaltotun
    @Xaltotun Год назад +2

    This was perfect listening for my painting session!

  • @kl6686
    @kl6686 6 месяцев назад

    This is amazing as I really don’t want the chalky pristine look for my army. 1000 Sons and their reliance on gold would be a good challenge perhaps? Also, I’m selfish and just got my K-Sons figures, so there’s that. Keep being awesomely grimdark

  • @marksutherlandjr.2121
    @marksutherlandjr.2121 8 месяцев назад +1

    More than any other artist I follow. I'm never quite convinced while the work is happening. But when the finished product is shown, I'm BLOWN AWAY!!
    NOthing encapsulates this more then Trovarians grimdark necron. Will forever be my favorite paint job. I've rewatched that video hundreds of times.
    Edit: No one should ever be in a hurry when painting a Primarch.

  • @littleboudgras7208
    @littleboudgras7208 Год назад

    Le Dark Angel il est génial mais tu lui as collé la tête de Demis Roussos ! 😅Faudrait voir à nous respecter un peu quand même😀

  • @KevinoftheCosmos
    @KevinoftheCosmos 5 месяцев назад

    I've never wanted to follow a walkthrough for painting a mini as much as I do with this video. Boutta go bust out some paint. I own 1 single Blood Angel that I pulled from a Space Marine Heroes mystery box, and I want Brother Lucien to look exactly like this.

  • @KaineVillante
    @KaineVillante Год назад

    You might hate me but if something of mine doesn't look good MORE NULIN OIL!!! lmao but you are literally the God of painting and I watch you and cry that I struggle when I try to do your level stuff lmao.

  • @DG16045
    @DG16045 8 месяцев назад

    I wonder if the Black Templar would benefit from a thinned-down coat of Black Templar contrast paint (or similar) to help the blues read more as blacks? Could always re-highlight areas that lack brightness / range.

  • @ChadFromSpace
    @ChadFromSpace 10 месяцев назад

    When I first got into the hobby... I didn't like your videos. I can't even say why. I really, honestly do not know. It just wasn't for me. Several years, and a metric shit load of painting experience later, I am enraptured by your schemes, results, techniques and the thought process that goes into every model you paint.

  • @FoxhoundRegimentClan
    @FoxhoundRegimentClan 20 дней назад

    About to paint my first set of Imperial Fist HH.
    I've some experience weathering 3D prints (I build Mandalorian Armour to wear) and I wanted a style in my miniatures that looks lived in too and this is perfect. Thanks for the really in-depth, easy to follow guide.

  • @VikingGrazers
    @VikingGrazers 8 месяцев назад

    That Salamander at the end was beautiful.
    I miss my mini's but physically couldn't hold a brush to paint and couldn't afford to commission so that's my 40k over >_

  • @Siege181
    @Siege181 Год назад

    Good video, only thing I’d say is that the line “in the real military, things look banged up” shows you’ve never been in the military 🤣🤣
    I honestly would love you to say that to my old E6 as you might actually give him a heart attack!
    Only having a joke, keep up the good work!

  • @OGSpaceMarine
    @OGSpaceMarine Год назад

    There is only one God and that’s the Emperor HERETIC! Lol 😂
    Jokes aside, to me what’s grimdark is is rogue trader style

  • @JHadders98
    @JHadders98 Год назад +1

    Why havent you used any chapters man, I love your videos but my gawd dude xD

    • @trovarion
      @trovarion  Год назад

      literally unwatchable

    • @JHadders98
      @JHadders98 Год назад

      @@trovarion That's it I AM GOING TO EDGEHIGHLIGHT EVERYTHING AND DROWN IT IN NULN OIL

  • @SgtVennamo
    @SgtVennamo 8 дней назад

    I have been binging on painting videos lately, after coming back to 40k from an over a decade hiatus. Your skills and the results are astounding. Thank you.

  • @rain4825
    @rain4825 Год назад

    I come from the community post to let this run in the background as I've seen the individuals uploads already. Consider this comment an additional tribute to the almighty algorythm.

  • @NiosHöger
    @NiosHöger 5 месяцев назад

    Id expiriment with the mic position and quality... the room doesnt sound very nice, not too ez to follow u, some compression on the audio could also help, speak loud, clear and passionate! Gl for u

  • @jeffcapes
    @jeffcapes 4 месяца назад

    I feel like the black templar highlights could easily be knocked back a step with a black glaze just to bring everything back within that "black" range

  • @Mornomgir
    @Mornomgir Месяц назад

    Good grimdark painting is no less a challenge than award winning clown painting. Also grimdark comes directly from realistic application of wear and tear. Someone just took that started doing it in 40k and named it grimdark.

  • @frankandluna99
    @frankandluna99 Год назад

    What would be a good top green for dark angels? Like maybe an army green. Something darker and less bright but still with contrast.

  • @CatAtomic99
    @CatAtomic99 Год назад

    Very nice-- distinctive. Definitely looks a lot more rough and... dark.

  • @misterhansen3799
    @misterhansen3799 Год назад

    Hi! Thanks for your cool tutorials! Do you add water to the paints before sponging, or du you take the paints straight from the pot/bottle?

  • @Sieg2k6
    @Sieg2k6 3 месяца назад

    Fantastic! Thank you. Can you please do a pre heresy Thousand Sons in grimdark/worn?