I KNEW I HAD SEEN YOU BEFORE! I was on jury duty in Forsyth county, Ga last week and the whole time you were talking, I was trying to figure out where I had seen you before. That’s wild. I thought you were great. So polite. You seem to be extremely kind. That was my first time doing jury duty and I had a blast.
There’s an undeniable chemistry between Mike and Chris lol, I can tell these two genuinely love working with each other….I can see thanksgiving invites to each other in the future 😂
I'm working with a lawyer on my mother's wrongful death via malpractice case. They are about 7 months into the researching and medical experts etc and it is stressful. Your videos help me stay calm, understand the process, understand why things move at the pace they do, and appreciate the behind the scenes things the team is doing. Thank you
This was fantastic. I've absolutely been enjoying the shorter videos, but I need more of this long form discussion. I keep growing in my respect for you. This was fantastic.
Mike, I do hope you read this. I just started this and am just a bit over 1min in. You mention how you don't want to have a podcast because everyone does. I believe you are hitting the nail on the head. While watching your videos, I personally wanted to watch and listen to more long form content from you. Your prospective is unique me to and I assume a lot of other people. Even though I am no body the only advice that I would give about a podcast/long form is to make sure that you don't drift while making the content or make it longer than it needs to be. To try and be more concise and straightforward, I can go anywhere and listen to people talk about mundane everyday life stuff pretty much everywhere. Super happy to see some long form, been looking forward to finally having some. Edit: I meant to add this to the original comment. I personally would only make long form for the specific content that you believe would benefit from having a bigger conversation around it to warrant the video.
Man I'm a litigation paralegal and I loved this. So damn relatable. It's only once the dust has settled that you realise how much time, effort and just brain space you've used for a case, and that journey has so many ups and downs. More please Mr Rafi!
This is not something I ever thought I would watch and enjoy. I watched every minute with the same attention I would normally give an episode of game of thrones. This was wonderful.
I have no background in any of this but I investigate accidents for the government of my country (like NTSB in USA). What a fascinating and engaging discussion. Thank you.
Great format for this sort of thing! Really enjoyed learning the process of how a case like this could proceed over the years, and would love to see more content like this. Videos aside, congrats on getting a good outcome for your client. Always great to hear.
(Not a lawyer) and my takeaway is that your client was liked by both of you which says she is a rare human being. I have worked with a few lawyers over my working life, extremely good lawyers, but without a doubt, the most sceptical people ever. It has been my experience that lawyers are very good at sorting through the hogwash most people are convinced they have sold you. Most abused line said to a lawyer is; "It's not about the money....." It is ALWAYS about the money. Really enjoyed this podcast, interesting behind-the-scenes view of how the process works. Even though much had to remain confidential you explained enough to allow me to understand this is not just law, it is tactics, strategies and persistence. I would very much enjoy more like this. Nice job for your client and firm.
As someone trying to get into law school rn, I really love these insights into how litigation goes. People like you have really galvanized my resolve to become an attorney.
I’ve really been enjoying your shorts. Keep it up! I think people want to hear you in longer form because you have a very approachable presence. You seem like somebody who is trustworthy and knowledgeable, and it makes total sense you’re a plaintiff’s litigator. My dad was one as well and he was also quite circumspect and very good at inspiring confidence and trust. Feel blessed that people want to spend time with you. When they ask for a podcast they are really asking to have a coffee with you and chat.
This was an incredible watch, extremely informative but also amazingly entertaining hearing both of your perspectives and thoughts throughout the case. Please keep posting these, it's a kind of content that I don't think is anywhere else, and that is undeniably good!
Really love the long form content. I am a 2L who worked at a small firm in MN this summer that has a plaintiff’s lawyer with a ton of crazy stories, but he’s probably 20 years past his prime so I didn’t get to see anything unravel right in front of me. Cool to see it from the perspective of lawyers who have dealt with it in the last couple of years.
That was a very enjoyable watch and I truly hate it for what that man and his widow went through.. to be so hurt already where a "routine" slip and fall goes from owy to eventual death is scary and sad. I see these ads all the time for lawyers where "XXX got me 350K or 1.5M or whatever is the loads of money" and think to myself I don't ever want to be hurt bad enough where getting these settlements is a possibility. But its nice having y'all around who can make that happen so at least the family can have peace. And more podcasts. And the good news about podcasts is.. you don't have to wear pants either, and certainly Stokes needs to know that. Every. Single. Time.
I clicked on this video and realized it was an hour long. I couldn’t watch it at the time, but I'm so glad I remembered to come back to it. This is great stuff!
It’s so fun to hear you talk about the application of procedure to cases you’ve had, like when you were discussing diversity jurisdiction. As a first semester 1L anyways
Not a lawyer, but to be able to hear some of the mechanics behind the decisions is refreshing, and it gives me a far better understanding of some of what is encountered in the legal system (and to a degree, why some of it happens). Might have been long, but was very interesting the entire time (of course, the banter back and forth doesn't hurt).
@@MikeRafiLawyer If these are once in a blue moon, where you really go into a case or a subject, I will be happy There are a lot of podcasts but we are curious people and you are interesting
I lost it when Mike was so ready to air out his beef with the lawyer across the street. The fact that if Mike is against him he want to just annihilate them is so funny. Also the fact Mike wanted so badly to air as much of the dirty laundry that he could and Chis had to say maybe we don’t talk about that. Is just great. Best lawyer video I have seen in a while.
If you watch the first 3 minutes ish you'll note he says that this was originally started back in like 2018. Cases like this take a lot of time. The statement he made about no slip and fall cases was referring to any new ones. Assuming he followed through with that.
On behalf of “disliked” people, one thing I have trouble to accept is the idea of an attorney expressing his/her “liking” a client in a case representation. I wonder and worry what happens to a poor client that the hired attorney ends up disliking?! Maybe I am too demanding that attorneys should be like medical doctors who treat patients regardless of liking them or not. Or the mechanics repairing cars should do a great job fixing a car regardless of liking or disliking the car’s owner. Dealing with issues in legal arena with many layers is already complicated; and adding the element of liking or disliking is simply should not be added.
It’s human nature. You like some people more than others. I don’t believe the nonsense some lawyers say that all clients become friends or family… no. I am your lawyer. We will get along, but it’s rare that we fully connect with a client, and this was one of those situations.
I say this as someone who has worked with multiple personal injury attorneys: there are stories of lots of cases in different areas of personal injury law that are worth listening to. This kind of podcast i would tune in for. For potential topics: y'all got any crazy expert deposition stories? Weirdest objections in a depo? Any fun runarounds you've gotten in getting medical records? Any HITECH Act HIPAA complaints you've filed? (I've filed several of those.)
40:40 I am a private detective who specializes in medical malpractice claims and injury causation analysis. This sounds like an affirmative defense, and that they would have to have plead in their original answer or they shouldn't be able to use it.
Hey Mike ive get a serious legal question- Me and my family live in government funded public housing in Mass and recently got a letter from the water department who were working on a water main nearby that our pipes were made of an unknown metal and might be harmful. We did a lead test and its reading 20 parts per million! We personally been living and drinking here for 13 years, could we sue or do a class action with other residents?
I used to work for a supermarket that kept a lpg of every single thing that was cleaned and at what time. The owner also said that the shop floor had to be swept/checked every 30 minutes and then ofc logged. She always said it was incase she got sued. Do you think everyone actually did the sweep or do you think people just forged the paper work every 30 minutes? Crazy to see this be brought up in a case, because i bet my old workplace would not have realised how serious it is
24:42 What they don't mention here is that the defendants attorney is always going to file that motion and that it is damn near ineffective assistance of council, almost every time, if they dont ask for a summary judgment. They're almost never granted because of the presumed best light favorable reasonable jury standard. It's irrelevant, but the "store" is always going to ask for it.
Awesome video, thanks! Just a minor thing, the cuts between you two made me feel somewhat dizzy. Fitting both of you into a single frame might be better. Cheers
@MikeRafiLawyer Can you do a video or short on how due process works when a defendant in confidence admits to being guilty of a crime but insists on pleading innocent? Does that ever happen? What are the ethical/legal responsibilities for the lawyer? What would you personally do?
Nope was interested, yet I can tell you as someone who serves our country as well allies. This is what we go through to get to the point of that's the plan. Yet sadly our team of 15 gave notice as of December 31, 2025 we would be done, resigning.
Okay kinda serious question. Im 18 and was heading home from work at around 10:30pm on my electric bike while it was snowing. As I was heading home, I hit a fallen wire fence that had fallen over a crosswalk intetsection at 15 mph. Im not physically hurt, I think, but my bike got damaged. Do I have a case for the repair cost of my bike? Im assuming the wind knocked it down.
Does Georgia have something akin to Oregon's Trial Advocacy College? (re Linkedin post about "learning experience?") It is an excellent trial practice for practicing lawyers - because some lawyers either need the practice if they don't need to go to court very often. Or for lawyers who need the practice for almost any reason.
Where you were talking about how it's hard to explain that the store caused the death. Would it make sense to frame it as the store is responsible for managing his recovery from the fall? Which is what lead to his death. And could the store then have their own malpractice case? Because that would mean there was a tort between the store and the doctor? IANAL though so I may be way off.
While I agree that there are too many mediocre podcasts out there, This is not one, more please. Also don't be afraid to go into the weeds, I want to know about those five factors.
@Mr Rafi, did you happen to focus at all at the victim’s history serving? I mean during the first mediation and the joke of an offer that followed, could you not have thrown out a “so let me get this straight, the victim put his life on the line to protect people like your clients’ life and liberties, but your client could not do the same in their grocery store? How do you think a jury will react to that?” Did his veteran status at all play a factor, you guys barely touched on that.
@@MikeRafiLawyer Doesn't Georgia has a limit on the max that you could win? I saw another video where woman was shoot and killed by police you won but said the family would get the 250k max.
Why would a doctor intrinsically trust a couple of plaintiff’s lawyers. Sure u said that you didn’t believe he did anything wrong, but that’s far from binding.
I have a pretty out there suspicion, which is that the surgeon may have assisted them in suicide. the surgery probably went really bad before that though.
Odd tone - to a non-lawyer - hearing these two guys laugh and have a good time talking about a situation where a guy died. I know that's the business you're in. And you can't be 100% solemn 100% of the time. But as a ✌️ civilian✌️ this was uncomfortable.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I KNEW I HAD SEEN YOU BEFORE! I was on jury duty in Forsyth county, Ga last week and the whole time you were talking, I was trying to figure out where I had seen you before. That’s wild. I thought you were great. So polite. You seem to be extremely kind. That was my first time doing jury duty and I had a blast.
Ha, yes. You shared in jury selection selling guns, and I asked you about working at academy sports right?
There’s an undeniable chemistry between Mike and Chris lol, I can tell these two genuinely love working with each other….I can see thanksgiving invites to each other in the future 😂
51:32 You know they have good chemistry when one of them says to the other "before we kill each other" and it not be a threat
yeah and making out
I'm working with a lawyer on my mother's wrongful death via malpractice case. They are about 7 months into the researching and medical experts etc and it is stressful.
Your videos help me stay calm, understand the process, understand why things move at the pace they do, and appreciate the behind the scenes things the team is doing.
Thank you
This was fantastic. I've absolutely been enjoying the shorter videos, but I need more of this long form discussion. I keep growing in my respect for you. This was fantastic.
Mike, I do hope you read this. I just started this and am just a bit over 1min in. You mention how you don't want to have a podcast because everyone does. I believe you are hitting the nail on the head. While watching your videos, I personally wanted to watch and listen to more long form content from you. Your prospective is unique me to and I assume a lot of other people. Even though I am no body the only advice that I would give about a podcast/long form is to make sure that you don't drift while making the content or make it longer than it needs to be. To try and be more concise and straightforward, I can go anywhere and listen to people talk about mundane everyday life stuff pretty much everywhere. Super happy to see some long form, been looking forward to finally having some.
Edit: I meant to add this to the original comment. I personally would only make long form for the specific content that you believe would benefit from having a bigger conversation around it to warrant the video.
Just got done. Wonderful conversation. Hope to see more like this.
Thanks!
Man I'm a litigation paralegal and I loved this. So damn relatable. It's only once the dust has settled that you realise how much time, effort and just brain space you've used for a case, and that journey has so many ups and downs. More please Mr Rafi!
This is not something I ever thought I would watch and enjoy. I watched every minute with the same attention I would normally give an episode of game of thrones. This was wonderful.
Thanks
Laughed out loud at "I can't be trusted" That was priceless.
Thank you for the "podcast." I really enjoyed it, and I am looking forward to watching more.
I have no background in any of this but I investigate accidents for the government of my country (like NTSB in USA). What a fascinating and engaging discussion. Thank you.
Loves this long form video, and great story about the case. Glad you guys were able to win the case for this client.
I loved this. Please do more of these!! I would listen to the two of you talk for hours.
Great format for this sort of thing! Really enjoyed learning the process of how a case like this could proceed over the years, and would love to see more content like this. Videos aside, congrats on getting a good outcome for your client. Always great to hear.
(Not a lawyer) and my takeaway is that your client was liked by both of you which says she is a rare human being. I have worked with a few lawyers over my working life, extremely good lawyers, but without a doubt, the most sceptical people ever. It has been my experience that lawyers are very good at sorting through the hogwash most people are convinced they have sold you. Most abused line said to a lawyer is; "It's not about the money....." It is ALWAYS about the money. Really enjoyed this podcast, interesting behind-the-scenes view of how the process works. Even though much had to remain confidential you explained enough to allow me to understand this is not just law, it is tactics, strategies and persistence. I would very much enjoy more like this. Nice job for your client and firm.
I love when you have Chris on, you two go so well together
As someone trying to get into law school rn, I really love these insights into how litigation goes. People like you have really galvanized my resolve to become an attorney.
I’ve really been enjoying your shorts. Keep it up!
I think people want to hear you in longer form because you have a very approachable presence. You seem like somebody who is trustworthy and knowledgeable, and it makes total sense you’re a plaintiff’s litigator. My dad was one as well and he was also quite circumspect and very good at inspiring confidence and trust.
Feel blessed that people want to spend time with you. When they ask for a podcast they are really asking to have a coffee with you and chat.
This was an incredible watch, extremely informative but also amazingly entertaining hearing both of your perspectives and thoughts throughout the case. Please keep posting these, it's a kind of content that I don't think is anywhere else, and that is undeniably good!
Really love the long form content. I am a 2L who worked at a small firm in MN this summer that has a plaintiff’s lawyer with a ton of crazy stories, but he’s probably 20 years past his prime so I didn’t get to see anything unravel right in front of me. Cool to see it from the perspective of lawyers who have dealt with it in the last couple of years.
Anybody like you two over here in The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia?
still
“I don’t wear pants.”
“I didn’t need to know that.”
😂
33:40
Building the workplace harassment case lol
yall just have a great way of talking. I need more of these
That was a very enjoyable watch and I truly hate it for what that man and his widow went through.. to be so hurt already where a "routine" slip and fall goes from owy to eventual death is scary and sad. I see these ads all the time for lawyers where "XXX got me 350K or 1.5M or whatever is the loads of money" and think to myself I don't ever want to be hurt bad enough where getting these settlements is a possibility. But its nice having y'all around who can make that happen so at least the family can have peace. And more podcasts. And the good news about podcasts is.. you don't have to wear pants either, and certainly Stokes needs to know that. Every. Single. Time.
I clicked on this video and realized it was an hour long. I couldn’t watch it at the time, but I'm so glad I remembered to come back to it. This is great stuff!
Hot dang. This was wildly entertaining. This should be a movie.
Love the civ pro personal jurisdiction discussion as I'm going through my torts and civ pro issue spotters while prepping for exams
It’s so fun to hear you talk about the application of procedure to cases you’ve had, like when you were discussing diversity jurisdiction. As a first semester 1L anyways
I appreciate you guys sharing these stories. Informative and entertaining.
I do love this! Glad you went with the long form content. Sad the swearing was muted. Great chemistry!
Love this episode! Very educational and interesting for a paralegal in the clinical neg field !!
In law school now and this helped me a ton. I’m on the transactional side so it helped me a ton to actually know the litigation side of things.
This is an amazing format, more of this
i absolutely love this content. PLEASE CONTINUE
Great chemistry between you guys! You should do at least one video a month together.
It's like I'm watching Cain & Abel. I'll leave it to you to decide who is who here!
Ah yes the Joe Rafi podcast
Not a lawyer, but to be able to hear some of the mechanics behind the decisions is refreshing, and it gives me a far better understanding of some of what is encountered in the legal system (and to a degree, why some of it happens). Might have been long, but was very interesting the entire time (of course, the banter back and forth doesn't hurt).
The world needs more podcasts.
But does it really?
@@MikeRafiLawyer If these are once in a blue moon, where you really go into a case or a subject, I will be happy
There are a lot of podcasts but we are curious people and you are interesting
Loving the long form content!
Super interesting. Would love to see more of this in the future.
As a proud non-lawyer it was really enjoyable listening to this process
I lost it when Mike was so ready to air out his beef with the lawyer across the street. The fact that if Mike is against him he want to just annihilate them is so funny. Also the fact Mike wanted so badly to air as much of the dirty laundry that he could and Chis had to say maybe we don’t talk about that. Is just great. Best lawyer video I have seen in a while.
For the more full story about that lawyer, watch episode two of married to the law, which is on my channel.
Im not a lawyer, but I love these videos. Keep them going! :D
Very good podcast! Super informative and interesting.
No slip & falls except when it's 7.75 mil.
If you watch the first 3 minutes ish you'll note he says that this was originally started back in like 2018. Cases like this take a lot of time. The statement he made about no slip and fall cases was referring to any new ones. Assuming he followed through with that.
Mike seems like a down to earth guy with some good morals.
On behalf of “disliked” people, one thing I have trouble to accept is the idea of an attorney expressing his/her “liking” a client in a case representation. I wonder and worry what happens to a poor client that the hired attorney ends up disliking?! Maybe I am too demanding that attorneys should be like medical doctors who treat patients regardless of liking them or not. Or the mechanics repairing cars should do a great job fixing a car regardless of liking or disliking the car’s owner. Dealing with issues in legal arena with many layers is already complicated; and adding the element of liking or disliking is simply should not be added.
It’s human nature. You like some people more than others. I don’t believe the nonsense some lawyers say that all clients become friends or family… no. I am your lawyer. We will get along, but it’s rare that we fully connect with a client, and this was one of those situations.
You gotta make more of these! I've already relistened!
33:06 that "we know" came from the soul. He knows. He really, really knows.
I say this as someone who has worked with multiple personal injury attorneys: there are stories of lots of cases in different areas of personal injury law that are worth listening to. This kind of podcast i would tune in for.
For potential topics: y'all got any crazy expert deposition stories? Weirdest objections in a depo? Any fun runarounds you've gotten in getting medical records? Any HITECH Act HIPAA complaints you've filed? (I've filed several of those.)
I like these long form videos 👍🏿
40:40 I am a private detective who specializes in medical malpractice claims and injury causation analysis. This sounds like an affirmative defense, and that they would have to have plead in their original answer or they shouldn't be able to use it.
Hey Mike ive get a serious legal question- Me and my family live in government funded public housing in Mass and recently got a letter from the water department who were working on a water main nearby that our pipes were made of an unknown metal and might be harmful. We did a lead test and its reading 20 parts per million! We personally been living and drinking here for 13 years, could we sue or do a class action with other residents?
Love the long form content!
I used to work for a supermarket that kept a lpg of every single thing that was cleaned and at what time. The owner also said that the shop floor had to be swept/checked every 30 minutes and then ofc logged. She always said it was incase she got sued. Do you think everyone actually did the sweep or do you think people just forged the paper work every 30 minutes? Crazy to see this be brought up in a case, because i bet my old workplace would not have realised how serious it is
"that's podcast number 1" perfect outro (the lady wanting to be friends is wholesome, too)
As a physician and surgeon, I get his reluctance to discuss. There are some really whacky lawyers out there and whacky decisions.
24:42 What they don't mention here is that the defendants attorney is always going to file that motion and that it is damn near ineffective assistance of council, almost every time, if they dont ask for a summary judgment. They're almost never granted because of the presumed best light favorable reasonable jury standard. It's irrelevant, but the "store" is always going to ask for it.
So as for the elephant in the room… of that $7.75M, how much did you guys take and how much did client take???
Awesome video, thanks! Just a minor thing, the cuts between you two made me feel somewhat dizzy. Fitting both of you into a single frame might be better. Cheers
@MikeRafiLawyer Can you do a video or short on how due process works when a defendant in confidence admits to being guilty of a crime but insists on pleading innocent? Does that ever happen? What are the ethical/legal responsibilities for the lawyer? What would you personally do?
Great video. This is walmart right? You've mentioned them before in a few cases. 10pm at night...
Create podcast! Keep them coming!
Nope was interested, yet I can tell you as someone who serves our country as well allies. This is what we go through to get to the point of that's the plan.
Yet sadly our team of 15 gave notice as of December 31, 2025 we would be done, resigning.
"we know" I want to know that story now haha
super fun video. non lawyer watching.
Chris, do you sing?! Wow, what a voice.
i love this content
bookmark 0:20:00
Okay kinda serious question. Im 18 and was heading home from work at around 10:30pm on my electric bike while it was snowing. As I was heading home, I hit a fallen wire fence that had fallen over a crosswalk intetsection at 15 mph. Im not physically hurt, I think, but my bike got damaged. Do I have a case for the repair cost of my bike?
Im assuming the wind knocked it down.
What’s your largest verdict, what’s your largest settlement?
Quite a fancy signoff, Mike
Does Georgia have something akin to Oregon's Trial Advocacy College? (re Linkedin post about "learning experience?")
It is an excellent trial practice for practicing lawyers - because some lawyers either need the practice if they don't need to go to court very often. Or for lawyers who need the practice for almost any reason.
Where you were talking about how it's hard to explain that the store caused the death. Would it make sense to frame it as the store is responsible for managing his recovery from the fall? Which is what lead to his death. And could the store then have their own malpractice case? Because that would mean there was a tort between the store and the doctor? IANAL though so I may be way off.
When there was an open question about whether the surgeon was primarily responsible, why not sue the surgeon too?
Love it! But maybe give us some warning before showing the situation that ultimately killed someone.
Really behind the curtain here!
You should put the auto switcher on microphone sensitivity, the constant switching is kinda annoying
Why do some lawyers take a case and others turn down the same case?
Difficulty, lack of expertise, cost, type of case, some are too busy, difficult client, the list is endless.
Isn't your case quite similar to the infamous Palsgraf v. Long Island Railroad Co. case? Whether death was a foreseeable harm to your client?
Bro looks so much like Wesley from the Rookie, much love tho man
Thoroughly enjoyable, but you never went into detail regarding Chris's bathroom discovery
While I agree that there are too many mediocre podcasts out there, This is not one, more please. Also don't be afraid to go into the weeds, I want to know about those five factors.
What happens if you get an offer that you would instantly say no too but the client says it's been 5 years I just want this over I'll take it
@Mr Rafi, did you happen to focus at all at the victim’s history serving? I mean during the first mediation and the joke of an offer that followed, could you not have thrown out a
“so let me get this straight, the victim put his life on the line to protect people like your clients’ life and liberties, but your client could not do the same in their grocery store? How do you think a jury will react to that?”
Did his veteran status at all play a factor, you guys barely touched on that.
7:08 when knee surgery is tomorrow:
What if the log was wrong and the store was swept but didn’t log it
This is excellent content. You need an audio editor though
What?
@ I SAID YOU NEED AN AUDIO EDITOR :D
What?
You have a 250k limit how do you settle 7.75?
250k limit? - don’t know what you mean.
@@MikeRafiLawyer Doesn't Georgia has a limit on the max that you could win? I saw another video where woman was shoot and killed by police you won but said the family would get the 250k max.
@@jmasuo are you thinking about Texas?
Don’t think that was me 👀
And no, Georgia has no caps other than limits because of governmental immunity - nuts it’s higher than $250k.
Anesthesia problems? Underlying heart condition?
i think your audio mixing is off. the highs are GONE
Where were you guys back in 2014 when I was t-boned by a SWIFT truck?
Oh yeah. Grade school. 😂
Appreciate the compliment, I think? I was working at one of the largest law firms in the world in 2014 🤷🏻♂️
Why would a doctor intrinsically trust a couple of plaintiff’s lawyers. Sure u said that you didn’t believe he did anything wrong, but that’s far from binding.
What is the best way to slip and fall for the maximum payout lol
Not asking this question on the internet with your name in your account probably 😂
34:40
So which ones the Boss?
Bruce Springsteen
❤ p
I have a pretty out there suspicion, which is that the surgeon may have assisted them in suicide. the surgery probably went really bad before that though.
Odd tone - to a non-lawyer - hearing these two guys laugh and have a good time talking about a situation where a guy died. I know that's the business you're in. And you can't be 100% solemn 100% of the time. But as a ✌️ civilian✌️ this was uncomfortable.