That first L&O episode was based on a real case (so many of the episodes were). It was the death of Libby Zion in the ER of a New York teaching hospital that prompted her father to investigate the competency of the physicians. He believed that understaffing and overwork contributed to mistakes which ultimately lead to his daughters death. The regulation in New York State which limits the hours which residents and interns work in hospitals to about 80 hours a week is known as the Libby Zion Law.
The bare minimum of CPR and defibrillation just sent me to the moon with rage. Someone at my workplace dropped like a fly with a heart attack and we were so fortunate a couple nearby, both doctors, started chest compressions the moment they saw him go down. When EMTs arrived they took over for another 45 minutes. He survived and is now fully recovered. KEEP. GOING.
On the other hand, it kind of has to be cut down for TV. 45 minutes is a whole episode. Same with the lack of depth on the chest compressions, you don't want to *actually* break their ribs. ... you probably shouldn't get your medical training from TV.
Right? Doctors should know better. The training I got as a regular person is to keep doing it (cycling with people because it's exhausting) until someone more qualified is there to take over the situation.
Having the daughter code in front of the whole ER wasn’t a HIPAA violation Devin! This is from 1990 and HIPAA didn’t pass until 1996. It was a violation of medical ethics at BEST
Fun fact: Law & Order began pre-HIPAA, so there are a lot of things that changed after privacy protection was enacted. Before that, someone could reveal your medical records (not ethically, but there weren't that many protections for patients), which is what happened during the AIDS scare of the 80s and 90s. As someone with a newly diagnosed genetic disorder, and also a former healthcare worker, it's been pretty amazing to see the changes in the last 30 to 40 years.
And here I thought that HIPAA went back to the dawn of medicine. I'm shocked to learn it's still a relatively new concept in the grand scheme of medicine.
@@D64nz It really is. As information has become more readily available, it's had to be measured. Can you imagine if people's personal health information could be accessed by your boss or in-laws?
As someone who works in ER Registration, It is very common for someone coming in for an STD check to take out parents on their emergency contacts so then nothing will be let out.
NO ONE on staff should be talking with an investigators WITHOUT hospital lawyers present! The cops should be coordinating through and/or redirected with upper management to schedule interviews the ANY personal that were administering care during the person's visit/death.
I agree. Rules may be different now versus then, but I felt that today the hospital would have lawyers present and maybe a board to review the death in question if foul play was suspected.
Incorrect. The hospital staff may not obstruct or impede a law enforcement investigation (to do so is usually a felony crime). It would also be a crime to influence a witness statement to a police officer - such would be considered tampering or acceseory after the fact where it results in concealment of a crime from law enforcement.
Funny story: my ex room mate was a medical student, and one night I had extreme stomach pain. She told me it was appendicitis. I laughed, told her, "you med students are always thinking it's something serious. I just have food poisoning from Olive Garden. I'm FINE." 36 hours and one small operation later.... It was appendicitis. I heard hoofbeats and thought horses, but it was actually a zebra. I got lucky my other ex room mate succeeded in dragging me to the hospital when she did.
In the state I livee in (MD) it could be either. We have both wild horses and some zebras that got loose from a preserve and a couple were never recaptured.
@@alalalala57 RUclips in a nutshell lol "I thought it was one thing and it was another." "You're wrong, it wasn't another thing, it was another thing!"
Appendicitis ain't a zebra. It's incredibly common. Your roommate probably realized the symptoms matched appendicitis more than they did food poisoning. Not to be rude but this is more a case of you dismissing something and insisting you're fine. I'd hazard a guess that your presentation was textbook appendicitis which is why your roommate knew what it was
Yea sir. It's too bad Dr. Mike didn't see The Abyss though, Ed Harris really pounded on Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio and for a long time, easy the 15 minutes Dr Mike says he's done. Not wimpy chest compressions at all.
When my brother was in med school, my dad caught a bad cold and jokingly listed his symptoms to see what my brother would diagnose. Having just finished a unit on serious infectious diseases, my brother diagnosed anthrax. To be clear, my dad didn’t have anthrax. Just a cold. But it’s now a family joke when someone catches a cold that we should also watch for anthrax.
I'm so sorry if this is insensitive but did it affect her brain at all? I guess it wouldn't really due to the compressions...but I'm not sure. Feel free not to answer this if jt makes you uncomfortable and I hope your daughter is doing well now.
@@gh0stly_retr048chest compressions are just doe blood flow. You have to breath or use a balloon to give oxygen. Highly recommend taking a CPR class for everyone just in case
From a Paramedic student: most opioid analgesics and benzos in various clinical protocols and guidelines I've seen list antidepressants as a whole as either hard contraindications or under "use with caution" (soft/relative contraindication depending on the situation). That includes MAO inhibitors. It's not some esoteric pharma lore. It's also not even _that_ much of a pain in the butt, as opiate alternatives like Ketamine, IV Acetaminophen, and stronger NSAIDs like Ketorolac have become commonplace in EMS.
@hvymtal8566 Please explain the pharmacology behind that logic because very few opioids and no benzos have serotonergic activity. Genuinely curious, it doesn’t make much sense.
@@Sniperboy5551 it's not the medication that affects serotonin, it's a metabolite of the medication. As the chemical is metabolized by the body, it turns into a different chemical that has a potential risk of serotonin syndrome. MAOIs also increase the presence of a variety of other substances in the body, too. Primarily neurotransmitters, I think. So the potentiality for interaction is very high.
2:15 my grandpa had a heart attack back in 2013 and was gone for almost 30 minutes. He was in the icu/hospital for a full month and needed physical therapy afterward. Thank god for the military veteran who was there to perform cpr. Ill never forget his doctors telling us its a miracle he survived. Such strong memories from this small part of the video
I love Legal Eagle’s excitement over the side moving crates! It’s not a real Law and Order episode if there isn’t some dude being nonchalant over being interrogated by police. But hey, those crates won’t move themselves! I applaud your work ethic crate man!
As a Health Information Manager (person who manages medical records) I nearly put my head through a wall when they showed they had used white out on a record!! We also live and breath by "if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen". Love to see a little rep for the role medical records play in these cases :)
My supervisor in a hospital once used whiteout on a congratulating card to me (had gotten accepted into grad school). She told me, "Don't tell anyone I have whiteout."
Yup, everything in GMP pharm. Sci. Is written in pen, if a correction is needed youll cross it with a singular line so its still legible- and often you need a second analyst to verify your correction (they also initial and date/potentially add a note)
Just throwing it out there, you guys are missing a golden opportunity. You both could have sports teams composed of doctors and lawyers that could regularly compete against each other for charity, Bears vs Eagles.
Thanks for bringing up Serotonin Syndrome, Dr. Mike! I've had mild/moderate cases of it before, and I wish it was more widely known about. I had to take a lot of my old medication, so if I missed a few days and took my full dose to get back onto it, it would completely flood my system. I thought the symptoms were unrelated until a therapy appointment of mine coincided with a day that I had a mild-moderate case of it. My therapist recognized the signs immediately and freaked out- for those unaware, severe cases of serotonin syndrome can cause seizures and even be fatal. There were multiple times that I should have gone to the hospital for my symptoms, but I hadn't known that there was anything wrong! So yeah, thank you for teaching your audience about Serotonin Syndrome!
The Abyss reference is so spot on. She even tells him it will take 10-15 minutes of CPR to get her back, but everyone else is like, "it's been 3 minutes, just give up, man."
This case is a play on the Libby Zion case that resulted in resident work hours rules. There wasn’t an alcohol intoxication issue, though. Serotonin syndrome is what killed her from getting meperidine while on an MAO-I
On the one hand I understand it being changed to drunkenness, since overwork/sleep deprivation causes a similar level of impairment, but it does change it to a crime of individual choice - choosing to drink during working hours - rather than it being an enforced dangerous practice. If it happened later in the series I could definitely see Jack McCoy delivering a brilliant impassioned speech damning hospital administrators for endangering patients and causing moral injury to young doctors.
Serotonin syndrome is awful even if it doesn't kill you. When I was an idiot teen, I took Ritalin and then drank some everclear. That was maybe '06? My friends still refer to it as "the everclear incident"
I just love how they explain everything to us so we can understand them , and they make it fun so we don't get bored or distracted ( which happens to me very often) plus they are having fun to which is amazing. So thank you both! You're amazing guys!
I experienced Serotonin Syndrome back in 2008. It was terrifying. My doctor assured me Ultram and Prozac were safe to take together after I asked about the risk of SS. Well, I had a state where I had no clue what was happening or where I was, I had a seizure, and fell and hit my head on a hard tile floor. Everyone around me was scared and I woke up in an ambulance. They got me situated after a few hours and I never took another ssri with Ultram again. Ultram not only works on pain, it also *increases serotonin!*
I don't know if that's better or worse than my doctors never even telling me what I can or can't take with sertraline. I didn't even find out until this year that you can't have grapefruit if you're on an ssri (or on a lot of medications), even though I'd been taking it for years. Luckily I don't like grapefruit so hadn't had any anyway.
I'd like to see another attorney appear with Dr. Mike for legal procedurals like SVU and all those. Stone is far too biased in many cases (prime example: he heavily implied that Kyle Rittenhouse was guilty of all charges, in opposition to the LawTube channels who believed him to be cut-and-dry not guilty).
@@AdderTudeDude, we get it. You don't like Legal Eagle because he disagrees with you on Kyle Rittenhouse and LawTube didn't. You don't have to keep commenting. If he read the case one way and they read it another, it didn't mean either is biased, it means they disagree. What a concept!
on the horse/zebra topic - i have ehlers-danlos syndrome, one of the most "zebra" conditions possible to the point the awareness/support ribbon is a zebra stripe pattern. the phrase is great for medical students because it's a reminder that not every symptom is caused by a random obscure disease that's going to require intensive care. who it's *not* great for is people like me, the zebras in question, because any time we have anything wrong a lot of doctors' first instincts are "well have you considered it could just be [xyz]?" and yeah, of course it could, but then they treat me for xyz and nothing happens because it's one of ehlers-danlos syndrome's extensive list of symptoms and comorbidities. it's really important to stress that while not every headache is a brain tumor, some are, and those patients deserve just as much respect and credibility when explaining their symptoms instead of just being accused of being dramatic.
I absolutely love Doctor Mike and Legal Eagle (Devin Stone) doing videos together. Aside from their experience and education, they are really excellent at explaining how things work in the fields of medicine and law. They're very devoted and passionate about their fields. I'm hoping they do even more videos together! They've done a few and they're all awesome.
IDK...if you watch how Stone reacted to the Rittenhouse case, he thought the kid was 100% guilty despite clear-cut evidence to the contrary. LawTube (channels of other real attorneys) had a field day picking his legal reasoning apart.
I love how triggered Mike was over the pronunciation of "anti-beeotics" 😂As a software developer (so, in the tech world), the first time I heard an old TV show call robots "robits", I had the same visceral pained reaction 😂
Even though i never plan to be a doctor or lawer its still really interesting seeing how the body works its interesting especially as someone who is an artist and trying to practice basic anatomy
Please please PLEASE do a joint West Wing series!! So many legal & medical situations in the show (including central stories or plots focusing on MS, malpractice?, PTSD & suicidal ideation, homelessness, alcoholism/drug abuse, and emotional abuse/trauma, dementia… seriously, this series has a LOT!). Especially love the Christmas episodes. If I had to recommend one to do, it would be either “Noel” from Season 2 (focus on PTSD & suicidal ideation), or “Bartlet for America” from Season 3 (deals with MS, alcoholism/drug addiction, and a cross examination by congress). Though any of the Christmas episodes are great; Season 1’s Christmas episode “In Excelsis Deo” is very moving (homelessness, PTSD in veterans). Thanks for the two videos! Excited about future collabs. :)
Never watched this show, but I like your suggestion. The movie M*A*S*H* deals with war, suicide, and a ton of ethics. It is darker than the TV series. I don't recommend it for anyone with PTSD.
Legal and medical crossovers are the coolest thing ever and idek why. It’s like when science and philosophy collide it just becomes completely chaotic and shifts reality for the best.
Aside from the obvious legal issues at hand, I'm just more in awe as to just how many actors in this first episode went on to become superstars! Also, I'm never saying antibiotics the right way again 😂😂
"Theres actually a lot of medicine, of which I know, law in the other hand? I don't." "Its time to talk about medical malpractice!" Doctor Mike's honest reaction: I'm scared. Edit: yall im not a member i just saw this vid in one of his playlists 👍
Would be interesting to see you two play Ace Attorney: Phoenix Wright Trilogy. Since Mike could talk about and react to the injuries and autopsy reports. Then Devin could talk about and react to the lawyer stuff.
Thank you Dr. Mike for everything you do. You always make me laugh but at the same time inform me about medical information. You have inspired me to be a doctor just like you and help the healthcare wold become a more affordable, better place. Love your videos! ❤
Love these - please do more. I was with my X in ICU in middle of the night and he had a code blue. I stayed right there watching. Docs revived or rather got regular heartbeat going with chest punches. Once they saw me standing there they tried to get me to go home - I said - you know, I've been here this long and he is ok now. They relented and let me stay.
This is so good! I first found Dr. Mike through a collab between these two. Now I think I watch more of his work than Legal Eagles'. So good to see them do another collab.
15:37 Though the episode is from 1989, under current NYS case law, Bellafiore v Ricotta. 83 AD3d 632, 920 NYS2d 373 [2d Dept 2011], the resident has nothing to fear legally because he was under the supervision of an attending. The resident would only be in trouble if he himself went out of the standard course of care while being under an attending’s supervision. Source: my mother tried the case I cited above at the trial level and it eventually got to NY’s highest court, which upheld the argument she put forth. (In early drafts of her closing arguments - I don’t know if she ever used it in court - she made Grey’s Anatomy references to how the interns were under the care of Burke and McDreamy.)
The crate moving is called business. Basically it gives the actors something to do during heavy dialogue screens so they don't look like Bethesda NPCs.
I have been in the situation of being questioned by police at work (I was just a witness) and I actually did just continue working. I answered every question to the best of my ability while completing my assigned task. The police didn't bat an eye. It is real life, not just on-screen busy work.
@@vincentbarnett4222 Absolutely. That's why it has to be artificially added when adapting novels into movies. It's usually only something you notice if it's not there.
@robloggia That's why it bothers me when people talking about those scenes are saying, "You're being questioned by the police and you just keep working?!" Yes, yes you do just keep working.
Dr Mike, I've watched pretty much all of your videos this week because I just happened upon them and couldn't stop watching. I am amazed by your knowledge and your way to make it interesting to learn about every single thing in medicine! How much research do you do before every video? You seem to know EVERYTHING just in the back of you mind. I understand you're a doctor and also do research before a video if you need it but you seem to have knowledge about EVERY single thing! I am living in Sweden so out healthcare system and legal system isn't the same as in USA, but it is very interesting to hear all the wisdom you (and in the video also Legal Eagle) put out there. A lot of info that people need to hear or know about. Correcting common misconseptions and educating about things that people really should know about.
My Dad practiced in a small town from the 60s-90s, and there were many times when he was called into the hospital to fix up after other doctors, even in the OR.
Clinical coder and former health info clerk here in Melbourne (I read medical records/documentation for the purposes of reimbursement by health funds). Every professional involved with medical records, both paper and electronic, must remember that they are legal documents. White out is strictly problematic from a legal perspective, which is why it is proper medical documentation to cross out mistakes in writing.
5:16 Lab technologists plate and culture specimens & perform testing for antibiotic susceptibility! Shout out and credit to all the lab techs out there 🥰
There’s an ER episode called Ames v Kovac that involves a malpractice trial that you two could react to. There are several ER episodes that deal with legal issues, but that one stands out
Hell yeah, we got another mike & devin collab! Hopefully we get more of these in the future. Also, that knowledge about what defibrillators are used for was very helpful, since I never understood much why doctor mike would get so upset when people used them for hearts stopping.
While we are at pointing out actors who were in other stuff: I spotted one Erick Avari - the bald doctor with the full beard at 5:42 (he's seen earlier, but here you get a good look). That's Dr. Terence Bey - the curator of the Egyptian Museum in the 2004 Mummy. So chances are - he killed the girl. But only because she tried to resurect the mummy. And his oath to the Medjai, to let that never happen needed him to act.
I love that Dr. Mike consistently sh*ts on the presentation of chest compressions in tv shows, but tbh, do you think they could do ACTUAL chest compressions on an actor just for the sake of making it look realistic?? 😂😂 The problems that would cause 😭
@@Moon_x_sun true, but if you've ever seen cpr dolls, the faces look really weird, so it's kinda hard to hide that it's not even remotely a real person 🤷♀️
@@tieganmccusker3034 oh yeah i know that why i Said when you cant really see the person who get cpr done on Them. Also the movie Industry has many tricks to make it look more real :)
Mike and Devin: This guy has a great memory! The bartender: He drank all the liquor I bought and then followed me out to the truck to see if I had any more. Yeah, I remember him.
2:40 My dumbass. Mike said he's '89 and I thought he was saying he was 89 years old! Smh. I was like "Damn you look really good for 89, what the hell??🤨"
These two together are always great! I imagine the next movie Devin sees where they pull out a defibrillator for a flatline he’s gonna start yelling “chest compressions chest compressions chest compressions!” at the screen.
(At 9:56) Oooohhhhhh, I did a thing for my forensics class that touched on both of those drugs and their affects when used, both independently and combined!
Early law and order is my favorite, once Lenny leaves I leave. One thing to note is testing for certain medications back then you had to be very specific on what compounds you’re looking at so certain one will not show up on a regular panel. Hence the detectives asking for more panels
When I hear hoofbeats, I wonder "why is there an equine in the hospital?" then "why am I practicing medicine?" and I realize I am having that dream again and I am in my underwear and the attending is my third grade teacher and the hospital is in the house I grew up.
What's funny is dismissive and nonchalant attitude is like the weirdest one possible. If it was like, aggressively cocky I would get that, same with outrage of feeling like you and your hospital are being accused of being incompetent doctors. Not always a smart reaction, but it's a very human reaction. Being chill about it makes it sound like this is normal and that raises waaaaay more red flags.
I learned to do SLID for errors in charts. Single Line Initial Date. I still make corrections this way when I’m doing most documentation. Single Line so it doesn’t obscure the original error.
Dr.Mike said he wished "we would stop saying" the horse, not zebras phrase when I've been his fan for 3+ years and know for certainty he's said that exact phrase in at least 5-7 videos... has me shaken enough to type this XD
Doctor Mike, let’s be honest, I’ve seen story after story of VIP doctors making mistakes or being compromised with most medical professionals too scared to intervene. So I totally see a lot of other medical pros saying “was I supposed to wrestle him out of it?”😊
12:40 yeah but like, delivering things is a job for several million people in NYC, it’s common to walk down the street and pass people delivering things, including in milk crates
*Patient goes into cardiac arrest* Literally, almost every TV doctor - Get the defibrillator Dr Mike - 😡CHEST COMPRESSIONS, CHEST COMPRESSIONS, CHEST COMPRESSIONS!!!😡
You two should review the malpractice case in the Good Doctor (the episode is called the Good Lawyer). There’s also a legal drama, called All Rise, that has an episode about organ trafficking that I would love to see you guys tackle.
I love both of your channels!! This is the kind of thing I would love to have watched back when I was in college watching law & order on my days off from school! :D
Dr Mike, you always talk about chest compressions. I have yet to see (maybe it's older and I haven't seen it) a one stop video guide on CPR and what to do. You've talked at length about how to do chest compressions, about the one person taking leadership and directing others on what to do to act fast but organized, etc. But it's all small pieces here and there. I was thinking, let's say you're walking on the sidewalk and someone just falls. We can't simply start doing chest compressions. What do we need to check or look for? It would be great to have one 15-20 minute video with ALL the important things to know and first steps on CPR. I feel it would be easy to share for people and also digestible important information without necessarily having to go through a CPR course. Also, not less important, avoiding misinformation or bad sources. We would also be getting (hopefully) up to date information.
That first L&O episode was based on a real case (so many of the episodes were). It was the death of Libby Zion in the ER of a New York teaching hospital that prompted her father to investigate the competency of the physicians. He believed that understaffing and overwork contributed to mistakes which ultimately lead to his daughters death. The regulation in New York State which limits the hours which residents and interns work in hospitals to about 80 hours a week is known as the Libby Zion Law.
Those are pretty different circumstances than someone being drunk.
@@jsnlgrrtt the L&O franchises don’t adhere to the actual facts of a case. They take some of the elements and run with them.
@@jsnlgrrttbased on isn't an exact reenactment.
@@cp368productions2 I should have tagged cloud in my post. The situations are far enough apart that most people would not connect them together.
@Cloudservice it was probably the pilot episode when they were talking about how long their first shifts were.
The bare minimum of CPR and defibrillation just sent me to the moon with rage. Someone at my workplace dropped like a fly with a heart attack and we were so fortunate a couple nearby, both doctors, started chest compressions the moment they saw him go down. When EMTs arrived they took over for another 45 minutes. He survived and is now fully recovered. KEEP. GOING.
So glad the person from your work is okay!! I can't imagine how scary that was.
On the other hand, it kind of has to be cut down for TV. 45 minutes is a whole episode. Same with the lack of depth on the chest compressions, you don't want to *actually* break their ribs.
... you probably shouldn't get your medical training from TV.
@@basedeltazero714 You could totally jump cut it to get to 45 minutes. Doesn't even have to be a different take necessarily
Right? Doctors should know better. The training I got as a regular person is to keep doing it (cycling with people because it's exhausting) until someone more qualified is there to take over the situation.
That will make for a really terrible episode of Law & Order
Having the daughter code in front of the whole ER wasn’t a HIPAA violation Devin! This is from 1990 and HIPAA didn’t pass until 1996. It was a violation of medical ethics at BEST
175 likes and no reply? I wanna change that😊
You forgot to phrase that in the form of an objection, otherwise, good call!
@@saphiro007Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that rule only apply to Devin's channel?
@@MythicSuns
Lol; I think since it’s a collaboration that his license to practice his channels rules on Dr. Mike’s channel applies
I’ll allow it 😅
True, but there _were_ patient privacy laws before HIPAA, it's just that they were often unclear or even contradictory.
Fun fact: Law & Order began pre-HIPAA, so there are a lot of things that changed after privacy protection was enacted. Before that, someone could reveal your medical records (not ethically, but there weren't that many protections for patients), which is what happened during the AIDS scare of the 80s and 90s. As someone with a newly diagnosed genetic disorder, and also a former healthcare worker, it's been pretty amazing to see the changes in the last 30 to 40 years.
And here I thought that HIPAA went back to the dawn of medicine. I'm shocked to learn it's still a relatively new concept in the grand scheme of medicine.
@@D64nz It really is. As information has become more readily available, it's had to be measured. Can you imagine if people's personal health information could be accessed by your boss or in-laws?
As someone who works in ER Registration, It is very common for someone coming in for an STD check to take out parents on their emergency contacts so then nothing will be let out.
@@D64nzI was shocked to learn it was new too. I guess the AIDS pandemic helped bring that law into place.
NO ONE on staff should be talking with an investigators WITHOUT hospital lawyers present! The cops should be coordinating through and/or redirected with upper management to schedule interviews the ANY personal that were administering care during the person's visit/death.
I agree. Rules may be different now versus then, but I felt that today the hospital would have lawyers present and maybe a board to review the death in question if foul play was suspected.
I didn't know that.
Excellent catch!! You must be a medical professional, no?
Incorrect. The hospital staff may not obstruct or impede a law enforcement investigation (to do so is usually a felony crime). It would also be a crime to influence a witness statement to a police officer - such would be considered tampering or acceseory after the fact where it results in concealment of a crime from law enforcement.
@@Harlem55 , it isn't obstruction to not talk to police without your lawyer. It's literally one of your rights.
Funny story: my ex room mate was a medical student, and one night I had extreme stomach pain. She told me it was appendicitis. I laughed, told her, "you med students are always thinking it's something serious. I just have food poisoning from Olive Garden. I'm FINE."
36 hours and one small operation later....
It was appendicitis.
I heard hoofbeats and thought horses, but it was actually a zebra. I got lucky my other ex room mate succeeded in dragging me to the hospital when she did.
Appendicitis is pretty common though 😂
@@goku03458You folks realize the horses not zebra thing isn't about rarity, right? The OP is making the same point.
In the state I livee in (MD) it could be either. We have both wild horses and some zebras that got loose from a preserve and a couple were never recaptured.
@@alalalala57
RUclips in a nutshell lol
"I thought it was one thing and it was another."
"You're wrong, it wasn't another thing, it was another thing!"
Appendicitis ain't a zebra. It's incredibly common. Your roommate probably realized the symptoms matched appendicitis more than they did food poisoning. Not to be rude but this is more a case of you dismissing something and insisting you're fine. I'd hazard a guess that your presentation was textbook appendicitis which is why your roommate knew what it was
Legal Eagle’s references hitting the brick wall that is Dr. Mike is an accurate representation of what happens every time I bring up the West Wing.
I know, my first reaction when I saw him say my daughter
Was yelling Mallory
Yea sir. It's too bad Dr. Mike didn't see The Abyss though, Ed Harris really pounded on Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio and for a long time, easy the 15 minutes Dr Mike says he's done. Not wimpy chest compressions at all.
@@angelachouinard4581there is a great video about the horrific making of this movie by The Critical Drinker, in the playlist Production Hell.
For real, my opinion of Dr. Mike was hurt when he said he had no idea who was Leo.…
@@bertilhattto be fair during the show’s run dr Mike was in medical school so he should be forgiven but he should go back and watch it, it’s soo good
When my brother was in med school, my dad caught a bad cold and jokingly listed his symptoms to see what my brother would diagnose. Having just finished a unit on serious infectious diseases, my brother diagnosed anthrax. To be clear, my dad didn’t have anthrax. Just a cold. But it’s now a family joke when someone catches a cold that we should also watch for anthrax.
I think this might also be because it’s really important to give the doctor as accurate information as possible so that the diagnosis can be correct.
My daughter needed 45 mins of cpr even I was shocked they kept going that long and did get her back
That’s incredible. Is she okay now? I can’t imagine what you went through.
Hope you’re daughters doing well now
I'm so sorry if this is insensitive but did it affect her brain at all? I guess it wouldn't really due to the compressions...but I'm not sure. Feel free not to answer this if jt makes you uncomfortable and I hope your daughter is doing well now.
@@gh0stly_retr048chest compressions are just doe blood flow. You have to breath or use a balloon to give oxygen. Highly recommend taking a CPR class for everyone just in case
@@gh0stly_retr048 I'm sorry but can I ask the intent of this comment?
From a pharmacy student: meperidine is CONTRAINDICATED with MAOIs, meaning this drug combo should never be used! It very much can be a lethal combo.
From a Paramedic student: most opioid analgesics and benzos in various clinical protocols and guidelines I've seen list antidepressants as a whole as either hard contraindications or under "use with caution" (soft/relative contraindication depending on the situation). That includes MAO inhibitors. It's not some esoteric pharma lore. It's also not even _that_ much of a pain in the butt, as opiate alternatives like Ketamine, IV Acetaminophen, and stronger NSAIDs like Ketorolac have become commonplace in EMS.
@hvymtal8566 Please explain the pharmacology behind that logic because very few opioids and no benzos have serotonergic activity. Genuinely curious, it doesn’t make much sense.
@@Sniperboy5551. I think they still effect serotonin in some way.
No idea just guessing
@@Sniperboy5551 it's not the medication that affects serotonin, it's a metabolite of the medication. As the chemical is metabolized by the body, it turns into a different chemical that has a potential risk of serotonin syndrome. MAOIs also increase the presence of a variety of other substances in the body, too. Primarily neurotransmitters, I think. So the potentiality for interaction is very high.
2:15 my grandpa had a heart attack back in 2013 and was gone for almost 30 minutes. He was in the icu/hospital for a full month and needed physical therapy afterward. Thank god for the military veteran who was there to perform cpr. Ill never forget his doctors telling us its a miracle he survived. Such strong memories from this small part of the video
Thanks goodness he was there❤😅
HEADS UP: The second part of this video on Legal Eagle's channel has been taken down because of a copyright dispute. It will be updated later!
Oh, that explains it. Frigging RUclips copyright😡
That's a fun twist, given that copyright law is Legal Eagle's specialty.
It’s back up y’all 🎉
Did illuminaughtii report it?
@@FrenkTheJoy I’m confused. Why do you think she would report it?
I love Legal Eagle’s excitement over the side moving crates! It’s not a real Law and Order episode if there isn’t some dude being nonchalant over being interrogated by police. But hey, those crates won’t move themselves! I applaud your work ethic crate man!
I get instant serotonin from the way Devin throws his hands up and says "CRATES!"
@@maryhales4595he’s referring to the stand up comedy of John Mulvaney. He has a stand up of Law and Order. It’s very funny 😂
That’s one of those things that after that John Mulaney bit I can’t unnoticed it. All the cop shows do this and it makes me laugh
"Death?!"
"Yeah, that's why the *murder police* are here. Talking about her in the *past tense."*
As a Health Information Manager (person who manages medical records) I nearly put my head through a wall when they showed they had used white out on a record!! We also live and breath by "if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen". Love to see a little rep for the role medical records play in these cases :)
My supervisor in a hospital once used whiteout on a congratulating card to me (had gotten accepted into grad school). She told me, "Don't tell anyone I have whiteout."
I work Medical IT help desk and we even say that for our ticketing system. If we do something we write it in the ticket. aka cover your own ass.
Yup, everything in GMP pharm. Sci. Is written in pen, if a correction is needed youll cross it with a singular line so its still legible- and often you need a second analyst to verify your correction (they also initial and date/potentially add a note)
Just throwing it out there, you guys are missing a golden opportunity. You both could have sports teams composed of doctors and lawyers that could regularly compete against each other for charity, Bears vs Eagles.
Damn that’s a smart idea
Oh I love this idea!
OMG that is an incredible idea😄 They should do it lol
Stone would likely never play nice with the LawTube channels.
Also LegalEagle would get numerous delay of games for arguing with the refs.
Thanks for bringing up Serotonin Syndrome, Dr. Mike! I've had mild/moderate cases of it before, and I wish it was more widely known about. I had to take a lot of my old medication, so if I missed a few days and took my full dose to get back onto it, it would completely flood my system. I thought the symptoms were unrelated until a therapy appointment of mine coincided with a day that I had a mild-moderate case of it. My therapist recognized the signs immediately and freaked out- for those unaware, severe cases of serotonin syndrome can cause seizures and even be fatal. There were multiple times that I should have gone to the hospital for my symptoms, but I hadn't known that there was anything wrong! So yeah, thank you for teaching your audience about Serotonin Syndrome!
The Abyss reference is so spot on. She even tells him it will take 10-15 minutes of CPR to get her back, but everyone else is like, "it's been 3 minutes, just give up, man."
The worst offender for that is Robocop. The original I mean. When they wheel him him after get blasted they just give up after like 15-20 seconds.
There is something incredibly cool about watching two SME's (subject matter experts) in very different areas bounce of each other like this! Love it!
This case is a play on the Libby Zion case that resulted in resident work hours rules. There wasn’t an alcohol intoxication issue, though. Serotonin syndrome is what killed her from getting meperidine while on an MAO-I
On the one hand I understand it being changed to drunkenness, since overwork/sleep deprivation causes a similar level of impairment, but it does change it to a crime of individual choice - choosing to drink during working hours - rather than it being an enforced dangerous practice. If it happened later in the series I could definitely see Jack McCoy delivering a brilliant impassioned speech damning hospital administrators for endangering patients and causing moral injury to young doctors.
Serotonin syndrome is awful even if it doesn't kill you.
When I was an idiot teen, I took Ritalin and then drank some everclear.
That was maybe '06? My friends still refer to it as "the everclear incident"
It’s so nice to have a doctor and a lawyer learn things from each other. It shows that there’s no career greater than the other. Spot on!!!!
I just love how they explain everything to us so we can understand them , and they make it fun so we don't get bored or distracted ( which happens to me very often) plus they are having fun to which is amazing. So thank you both! You're amazing guys!
I experienced Serotonin Syndrome back in 2008. It was terrifying. My doctor assured me Ultram and Prozac were safe to take together after I asked about the risk of SS. Well, I had a state where I had no clue what was happening or where I was, I had a seizure, and fell and hit my head on a hard tile floor. Everyone around me was scared and I woke up in an ambulance. They got me situated after a few hours and I never took another ssri with Ultram again. Ultram not only works on pain, it also *increases serotonin!*
I don't know if that's better or worse than my doctors never even telling me what I can or can't take with sertraline. I didn't even find out until this year that you can't have grapefruit if you're on an ssri (or on a lot of medications), even though I'd been taking it for years. Luckily I don't like grapefruit so hadn't had any anyway.
Tramadol? They should have known. I used tramadol specifically for the serotonin activity.
@@Psilomuscimol my dr was obviously an idjit 💔
@@FrenkTheJoy Now I'm curious. Grapefruit?
Glad to see Mike and Devan back for another collab. Hope to see Alok Patel again sometime.❤
They need to do some collabs on Law and Order SVU too.
Dr. Patel is such a vibe
And more MDJ!
I'd like to see another attorney appear with Dr. Mike for legal procedurals like SVU and all those. Stone is far too biased in many cases (prime example: he heavily implied that Kyle Rittenhouse was guilty of all charges, in opposition to the LawTube channels who believed him to be cut-and-dry not guilty).
@@AdderTudeDude, we get it. You don't like Legal Eagle because he disagrees with you on Kyle Rittenhouse and LawTube didn't. You don't have to keep commenting. If he read the case one way and they read it another, it didn't mean either is biased, it means they disagree. What a concept!
on the horse/zebra topic - i have ehlers-danlos syndrome, one of the most "zebra" conditions possible to the point the awareness/support ribbon is a zebra stripe pattern. the phrase is great for medical students because it's a reminder that not every symptom is caused by a random obscure disease that's going to require intensive care. who it's *not* great for is people like me, the zebras in question, because any time we have anything wrong a lot of doctors' first instincts are "well have you considered it could just be [xyz]?" and yeah, of course it could, but then they treat me for xyz and nothing happens because it's one of ehlers-danlos syndrome's extensive list of symptoms and comorbidities. it's really important to stress that while not every headache is a brain tumor, some are, and those patients deserve just as much respect and credibility when explaining their symptoms instead of just being accused of being dramatic.
According to House, its always lupus. (I would know - I have a form of it. Chronic autoimmune hepatitis, or lupoid hepatitis, diagnosed in 2010)
I love it when mike suprises us with unexpected collabs once in a blue😊
I just wish he'd collaborate with any other attorney for their legal opinion.
@@AdderTudeokay, great. Nobody asked
@@AdderTudewhy? Legaleagle is great
Doctor Mike an Legal Eagle!!! Man we need 100% more of this team up!
I absolutely love Doctor Mike and Legal Eagle (Devin Stone) doing videos together. Aside from their experience and education, they are really excellent at explaining how things work in the fields of medicine and law. They're very devoted and passionate about their fields. I'm hoping they do even more videos together! They've done a few and they're all awesome.
IDK...if you watch how Stone reacted to the Rittenhouse case, he thought the kid was 100% guilty despite clear-cut evidence to the contrary. LawTube (channels of other real attorneys) had a field day picking his legal reasoning apart.
@@AdderTude Well, Devin is a diehard liberal, so even he can be blinded by politics.
I love how triggered Mike was over the pronunciation of "anti-beeotics" 😂As a software developer (so, in the tech world), the first time I heard an old TV show call robots "robits", I had the same visceral pained reaction 😂
Flashbacks to when I was homeschooled with my two older siblings, my older brother could not, for the life of him, pronounce microbiology! 😂
@@eroraf8637Meecrobeeologee? 😂
That’s how Dr.Zoidberg on Futurama said it. I thought it was just his accent!
Funny thought that that's way closer to the original pronunciation in Greek
*Czech
(unless you're asking Nia Vardalos's dad)
Even though i never plan to be a doctor or lawer its still really interesting seeing how the body works its interesting especially as someone who is an artist and trying to practice basic anatomy
I mean, you have a body, and it keeps you alive, you should at least have some interest in a basic knowledge of how it works.
Try watching the show Perception. It dealt with people who have unique traits and how they can be useful in various circumstances.
Please please PLEASE do a joint West Wing series!! So many legal & medical situations in the show (including central stories or plots focusing on MS, malpractice?, PTSD & suicidal ideation, homelessness, alcoholism/drug abuse, and emotional abuse/trauma, dementia… seriously, this series has a LOT!). Especially love the Christmas episodes. If I had to recommend one to do, it would be either “Noel” from Season 2 (focus on PTSD & suicidal ideation), or “Bartlet for America” from Season 3 (deals with MS, alcoholism/drug addiction, and a cross examination by congress). Though any of the Christmas episodes are great; Season 1’s Christmas episode “In Excelsis Deo” is very moving (homelessness, PTSD in veterans). Thanks for the two videos! Excited about future collabs. :)
Never watched this show, but I like your suggestion. The movie M*A*S*H* deals with war, suicide, and a ton of ethics. It is darker than the TV series. I don't recommend it for anyone with PTSD.
Legal and medical crossovers are the coolest thing ever and idek why. It’s like when science and philosophy collide it just becomes completely chaotic and shifts reality for the best.
Aside from the obvious legal issues at hand, I'm just more in awe as to just how many actors in this first episode went on to become superstars!
Also, I'm never saying antibiotics the right way again 😂😂
"Theres actually a lot of medicine, of which I know, law in the other hand? I don't."
"Its time to talk about medical malpractice!"
Doctor Mike's honest reaction: I'm scared.
Edit: yall im not a member i just saw this vid in one of his playlists 👍
3d ago?
@@RyanatorMusicyeah like how
@@RyanatorMusicit was probably a member video
@@RyanatorMusicHow is this possible
wouldnt op have like a member thingy next to his name tho ?
@@bushidobrown6742
Would be interesting to see you two play Ace Attorney: Phoenix Wright Trilogy. Since Mike could talk about and react to the injuries and autopsy reports. Then Devin could talk about and react to the lawyer stuff.
Absolutely love the Phoenix Wright Trilogy!
I think Devin would have an aneurism if he saw the last-second updated autopsy report
@@steakman4691 yeah but like that’s the point…
I really like it when these two team up.
Thank you Dr. Mike for everything you do. You always make me laugh but at the same time inform me about medical information. You have inspired me to be a doctor just like you and help the healthcare wold become a more affordable, better place. Love your videos! ❤
Love these - please do more. I was with my X in ICU in middle of the night and he had a code blue. I stayed right there watching. Docs revived or rather got regular heartbeat going with chest punches. Once they saw me standing there they tried to get me to go home - I said - you know, I've been here this long and he is ok now. They relented and let me stay.
Lmao 😂😂😂 0:18 "wooo beep" 🤣
I love how you can tell that these guys are really friends.
2:33 "Gimme a SpongeBob reference" from a licensed doctor is peak millennial/Gen Z energy 😂
This is so good! I first found Dr. Mike through a collab between these two. Now I think I watch more of his work than Legal Eagles'. So good to see them do another collab.
I like to add, "but you should still prepare for giraffes" onto the saying "if you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras".
I believe Legal Eagle is a John Mulaney fan. 😂 He’s quoting his stand up almost word for word about the crates.
This whole video is fantastic!
I came here to see if anyone else recognized it. I was expecting the whole bit about remembering every person and interaction they had as well lol
One of my favorite episode of MASH was a Christmas episode where they try and keep a guy alive so that he wouldn't die on Christmas.
Death takes a Holiday. "Look he made it"
You guys work really well together! I hope there are more.
7:45 we do this in manufacturing as well. If you write a tag down wrong you need to cross it out and intial it.
Really love this. There's a lot of medicine intertwining with law in Law and Order, and I would love for you guys to do more of this
15:37 Though the episode is from 1989, under current NYS case law, Bellafiore v Ricotta. 83 AD3d 632, 920 NYS2d 373 [2d Dept 2011], the resident has nothing to fear legally because he was under the supervision of an attending. The resident would only be in trouble if he himself went out of the standard course of care while being under an attending’s supervision.
Source: my mother tried the case I cited above at the trial level and it eventually got to NY’s highest court, which upheld the argument she put forth. (In early drafts of her closing arguments - I don’t know if she ever used it in court - she made Grey’s Anatomy references to how the interns were under the care of Burke and McDreamy.)
The morphine as a comforter was what my grandpa used at last day of his life. I am so glad I was with him that last day.
The crate moving is called business. Basically it gives the actors something to do during heavy dialogue screens so they don't look like Bethesda NPCs.
I have been in the situation of being questioned by police at work (I was just a witness) and I actually did just continue working. I answered every question to the best of my ability while completing my assigned task. The police didn't bat an eye. It is real life, not just on-screen busy work.
@@vincentbarnett4222 Absolutely. That's why it has to be artificially added when adapting novels into movies. It's usually only something you notice if it's not there.
@robloggia That's why it bothers me when people talking about those scenes are saying, "You're being questioned by the police and you just keep working?!" Yes, yes you do just keep working.
Dr Mike, I've watched pretty much all of your videos this week because I just happened upon them and couldn't stop watching. I am amazed by your knowledge and your way to make it interesting to learn about every single thing in medicine! How much research do you do before every video? You seem to know EVERYTHING just in the back of you mind. I understand you're a doctor and also do research before a video if you need it but you seem to have knowledge about EVERY single thing!
I am living in Sweden so out healthcare system and legal system isn't the same as in USA, but it is very interesting to hear all the wisdom you (and in the video also Legal Eagle) put out there. A lot of info that people need to hear or know about. Correcting common misconseptions and educating about things that people really should know about.
10:58 this phrase is the exact reason people with EDS call ourselves zebras!
12:25 - Don't do rounds after rounds.
Everytime these two collab, it's one of my favorite watches on youtube.
I love when these two collab, theh have the same energy, though ones a doctor ones a lawyer. Which makes them a pwrfect combo!
Mike's medical knowledge is unreal
It's like second nature to him😊 Just think of all the info he knew growing up and learning from his dad and then going to school to learn even more. 🤯
My Dad practiced in a small town from the 60s-90s, and there were many times when he was called into the hospital to fix up after other doctors, even in the OR.
The fact that every guy they talk to automatically knows the details of the case is hilarious
Clinical coder and former health info clerk here in Melbourne (I read medical records/documentation for the purposes of reimbursement by health funds).
Every professional involved with medical records, both paper and electronic, must remember that they are legal documents. White out is strictly problematic from a legal perspective, which is why it is proper medical documentation to cross out mistakes in writing.
3:34
"Have you tried to turn the heart off and on again?"
5:16 Lab technologists plate and culture specimens & perform testing for antibiotic susceptibility! Shout out and credit to all the lab techs out there 🥰
Always nice to see two of my fav youtubers explaining the deep stuff!
There’s an ER episode called Ames v Kovac that involves a malpractice trial that you two could react to. There are several ER episodes that deal with legal issues, but that one stands out
Hell yeah, we got another mike & devin collab! Hopefully we get more of these in the future. Also, that knowledge about what defibrillators are used for was very helpful, since I never understood much why doctor mike would get so upset when people used them for hearts stopping.
While we are at pointing out actors who were in other stuff:
I spotted one Erick Avari - the bald doctor with the full beard at 5:42 (he's seen earlier, but here you get a good look). That's Dr. Terence Bey - the curator of the Egyptian Museum in the 2004 Mummy.
So chances are - he killed the girl. But only because she tried to resurect the mummy. And his oath to the Medjai, to let that never happen needed him to act.
I love that Dr. Mike consistently sh*ts on the presentation of chest compressions in tv shows, but tbh, do you think they could do ACTUAL chest compressions on an actor just for the sake of making it look realistic?? 😂😂 The problems that would cause 😭
Ooo i didn't think of that. Good point
@@madil2259 "just lay still real quick, we're gonna potentially crack your ribs for no reason" 😂 ironically, I smell ✨lawsuits✨
Well if you arent really showing the person like there you could swap the actor for one of those cpr-dolls :)
@@Moon_x_sun true, but if you've ever seen cpr dolls, the faces look really weird, so it's kinda hard to hide that it's not even remotely a real person 🤷♀️
@@tieganmccusker3034 oh yeah i know that why i Said when you cant really see the person who get cpr done on Them. Also the movie Industry has many tricks to make it look more real :)
It brings me an unreasonable amount of joy to know that these two guys are friends.
The Law and Order theme is a bop
I've been an L&O fan since this episode, love the way Stone nails the doctor on the stand.
Mum was an R.N. and loved that "letter to Dear Abby" line.
Yay! Another collab with LegalEagle.
This is fantastic I'm a huge Law and Order fan since I was a kid. So much fine to watch a real Lawyer and Doctor discuss this.
Mike and Devin: This guy has a great memory!
The bartender: He drank all the liquor I bought and then followed me out to the truck to see if I had any more. Yeah, I remember him.
2:40 My dumbass.
Mike said he's '89 and I thought he was saying he was 89 years old! Smh.
I was like "Damn you look really good for 89, what the hell??🤨"
Sam’s here,
@@brendenhawley2225 Who's Sam? XD
These two together are always great! I imagine the next movie Devin sees where they pull out a defibrillator for a flatline he’s gonna start yelling “chest compressions chest compressions chest compressions!” at the screen.
(At 9:56) Oooohhhhhh, I did a thing for my forensics class that touched on both of those drugs and their affects when used, both independently and combined!
Legal Eagle and Dr. Mike... A+ Duo!
12:30 I absolutely love how happy Devin gets when he sees exactly what he described earlier in the video.
Early law and order is my favorite, once Lenny leaves I leave. One thing to note is testing for certain medications back then you had to be very specific on what compounds you’re looking at so certain one will not show up on a regular panel. Hence the detectives asking for more panels
Jim Beam Green was a 90 proof variant of the 80 Proof White Label. Discontinued in early ‘00’s. Now used as a Rye label by the brand.
Love these two together! It's interesting as heck to see these shows from two different perspectives.
When I hear hoofbeats, I wonder "why is there an equine in the hospital?" then "why am I practicing medicine?" and I realize I am having that dream again and I am in my underwear and the attending is my third grade teacher and the hospital is in the house I grew up.
What's funny is dismissive and nonchalant attitude is like the weirdest one possible. If it was like, aggressively cocky I would get that, same with outrage of feeling like you and your hospital are being accused of being incompetent doctors. Not always a smart reaction, but it's a very human reaction. Being chill about it makes it sound like this is normal and that raises waaaaay more red flags.
best lawyer and best doctor on youtube, BANGERRR
I learned to do SLID for errors in charts. Single Line Initial Date. I still make corrections this way when I’m doing most documentation.
Single Line so it doesn’t obscure the original error.
At 13:18 Dr. Mike should have said "Look, I am the lawyer now".
Dr.Mike said he wished "we would stop saying" the horse, not zebras phrase when I've been his fan for 3+ years and know for certainty he's said that exact phrase in at least 5-7 videos... has me shaken enough to type this XD
Law and order, the legal eagel and doctor mike. Best combo 🤩👌🏻
Mike never let's us down, less than a minute in chest compression rant starts. Love it.
Love these collaborations, by the way, you two play great off each other!
Doctor Mike, let’s be honest, I’ve seen story after story of VIP doctors making mistakes or being compromised with most medical professionals too scared to intervene. So I totally see a lot of other medical pros saying “was I supposed to wrestle him out of it?”😊
I love these collabs with you & Legal Eagle.
12:40 yeah but like, delivering things is a job for several million people in NYC, it’s common to walk down the street and pass people delivering things, including in milk crates
*Patient goes into cardiac arrest*
Literally, almost every TV doctor - Get the defibrillator
Dr Mike - 😡CHEST COMPRESSIONS, CHEST COMPRESSIONS, CHEST COMPRESSIONS!!!😡
You two should review the malpractice case in the Good Doctor (the episode is called the Good Lawyer). There’s also a legal drama, called All Rise, that has an episode about organ trafficking that I would love to see you guys tackle.
Law & Order started in 1990. HIPPA started in ‘95
I love both of your channels!! This is the kind of thing I would love to have watched back when I was in college watching law & order on my days off from school! :D
You had days off! I was afraid that the library would start charging me rent.
0:52 To be fair, if you actually did chest compressions on an actual actor, it'd cause actual damage.
yeah lol. It's just tv........
Dr Mike, you always talk about chest compressions. I have yet to see (maybe it's older and I haven't seen it) a one stop video guide on CPR and what to do.
You've talked at length about how to do chest compressions, about the one person taking leadership and directing others on what to do to act fast but organized, etc. But it's all small pieces here and there.
I was thinking, let's say you're walking on the sidewalk and someone just falls. We can't simply start doing chest compressions. What do we need to check or look for?
It would be great to have one 15-20 minute video with ALL the important things to know and first steps on CPR. I feel it would be easy to share for people and also digestible important information without necessarily having to go through a CPR course. Also, not less important, avoiding misinformation or bad sources. We would also be getting (hopefully) up to date information.
The crossover we didn't know we needed
They did it before
Mike you just shook my whole world, shocking STOPS the heart! 🤯