The future of V/Line: V/Line Transporting Victoria Episode 6
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- V/Line has changed significantly over the past 4 decades and will continue to change into the future. The next decade will likely see continued investment in regional rail, upgrading lines, replacing rollingstock, and introducing new services. So, what could the future of V/Line involve?
Thanks to Rail Rover for featuring in the video: / @railrover
00:00 Intro
00:52 Background
01:07 Current plans and projects
02:39 Replacement of V/Line’s classic fleet
04:53 Potential upgrades on the interurban network
07:17 Potential upgrades on the long-distance network
09:03 Expansion of V/Line?
09:10 Mildura service
10:44 Horsham service
11:49 Hamilton/Portland service
12:25 Geelong - Ballarat - Bendigo service
13:48 other long-term service expansions
14:13 Outro & End of the series (almost)
not all images and footage is mine, credit to the original owners.
Music by Mona Wonderlick
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It would be great to see Ballarat to Geelong line used for passenger not just freight
Would love to see a reconnection of old lines, namely the Mildura, Leongatha, Daylesford and Healesville lines
As the city grows, it will eventually have to be done
Another great post. Well done MMM. Keep up the good work.
Fantastic series mate. Done really well. 👍
Another great video. Well done!!
It’s a good day when metoman uploads
Great work. Looking forward to Wally rail
Great job. Top video.
Good to have you back MetroMan. Your absence has been noticed.
Perhaps you could turn your attention to the problems of the Ballarat Line. For the previous two years we had a lot of problems caused by a major line upgrade and the need for the train to be replaced by buses while works were conducted. A hassle yes, but f you want to make real improvements to the line it is what you have to put up with. Unfortunately though, the post upgrade service is less than brilliant with most journey times increasing not decreasing.
You see, almost all the new capacity has been used to increase the suburban service out to Melton. Given the expanding population of the west this was sorely needed, but it has meant that there are now several more stops and a few that were usually skipped have now become regular stops. Apart from a few express peak services, journeys are now slower and more crowded. On many runs people are standing in the aisles or perched in the luggage racks. What is needed is electrification of the line out to Melton and a dedicated diesel powered line for those of us traveling further. Better than ninety-nine out of one-hundred regional passengers have no need to use the new stations like the Cobblebank.
Why not try the line yourself? Its very pretty once you get past Bacchus Marsh and even with the new slower service it is only about an hour and twenty-five minutes. Come and see the begonias. You will need to pick up an e-scooter to get there, but the blooms are truly magnificent. (Oh, and excellent craft beer in Ballarat these days. Pity about the general standard of food)
I 100% agree at the desperate need to electrify out to Melton and convert that to a suburban service. Ideally you’d add some extra tracks through the suburban area at this point (further speeding up services) and then get started duplicating beyond Melton. I personally reckon this will be done as some sort of Ballarat fast rail project (part 2 of RFR anyone?) but whatever branding they use it needs to be done.
I have been enjoying this series of Valine videos. I thought I would give you an update on the Traralgon/Gippsland line. There has been work on a number of railway stations between Narre Warren Station and Drouin Station increasing the length of the platforms due to Gippsland trains being potentially longer than the platforms. Also there has been work on building extra platforms at the Morwell and Traralgon Stations. This could mean the duplication of railway track from outside of Moe to Traralgon Station and beyond. Unfortunately there is no sign of duplication of railway track in Moe or building an extra platform at Moe Station.
You remind me of the other Aussie kid/teen: The Train Man, where his voice also changed octave 😂😂 Thank you for the series - I only just discovered you - so watching all 7 eps in one hit certainly brushed me up on my knowledge.
high quality video guys
we need more Standard gauge vlocity cmon vline u need more to reintroduce Mildura and Horsham service with these sg vlo, anyway nice video metromanmelbourne and rail rover
agreed
We need standard gauge like a hole in the head. A totally inferior gauge that we had to adopt because we were bribed into it. And a Horsham service would need to be circuitous or wasting money replacing perfectly good track that could go elsewhere
@@andyrob3259 but they are Standard gauge trains and the teach don’t really need to be replace unless there are like old
Horsham needs to be on a stop on a SG route between Hamilton and Adelaide. Have a 3 way cross at Ararat a few times a day. Hamilton to Adelaide, Adelaide to Hamilton, and Ararat to Melbourne. Practically everyone will need to change, but so what? Just need to make one of the centre platforms at Adelaide Central standard gauge. Plenty of spare SG N sets now.
Velocity sucks for long distance - noisy and uncomfortable
Very nice! I think that V/Line should buy some XPTs and Xplorers (maybe even a couple Endeavours) for the Standard gague lines when they retire from NSW traffic. XPTs up to Mildura, Albury and Adelaide would be awesome. (Just them taking over The Overland would be great)
An Xplorer could probably head from Melbourne to Ararat via Geelong with stations opening at Inverleigh, Cressy, etc perhaps? Gague converted Endeavours and Xplorers on commuter services? Maybe even Stony Point?
I dunno, I just don't want to see them go. It's sad seeing V/Line expand and expand while our entire fleet will be replaced by cheap plastic garbage from CAF.
also *the government cancelled the vinela*
Xpt yes but they slow and kinda suck
@@Lachtrain they look outdated
Thegovermentcancelledthevinelanderunexpectedlyonsunday
Buying a fleet of worn out trains isn't going to solve anything.
@@yangerz2009 agreed they are very unmodern
Nice video mate. Really enjoyed this series. It will be sad to see N class hauled trains go but with more Vlocity trains being built it was bound to happen.
It will certainly be sad but if it means better, more frequent, and faster services, I'm all for it. There's always heritage groups anyway
@@MetroManMelbourne Yeah I agree if it means more faster and frequent services then i'm all for it. Hopefully some of the heritage groups can snag up an N class or two and put them in preservation.
Also freight companies will most likely buy them for usage on freight
Nice video meto man
Great one Metro! If you know about the V/Line Coaches going to Portland, it would also be cool to see V/Line Trains going there too, if the Portland section for Trains were to come, they would need SG Vlocities to run most of the time, but a few N classes for the weekend ONLY, since the Loco Hauled fleet is currently attempting to be diminished.
How they could to it is extend the Warrnambool line to koroit and then the old alignment to Hamilton
Should be a V Line train to Mt Gambier via Ararat, Hamilton & Portland.
Would be well used.
@@aussieplays9261 No! Go from Ararat, thru Hamilton, Portland then to Mt Gambier.
@@garynewton1263 MHM
@@garynewton1263 sorry for the caps there mate
Welcome Back!
Ararat via Ballarat to Melb needs to be standard gauge. Thus bringing back the Dimboola train
Horsham. Why terminate at Dimboola? The population doesn't warrant it.
Yes a video
11:33 As much as I’d like to see more regional train services introduced, would it really be that simple to run a standard gauge Vlocity to Horsham? Getting a path on the ARTC line may be complicated (given freight movements) and probably quite expensive. I also think it’s unlikely the Victoria government would fund such a service while still subsidising the Overland. Will be interesting to see what happens. 🤔
You might have to construct another passing loop or two but it worked in the 90s so I doubt it would be a major problem now. The overland is also an appalling service so both is necessary.
Why not run a shuttle service Horsham-Ararat-Horsham to meet the broad guage velocity service Ararat-Melbourne, passengers would only have to cross the platform at Ararat. There are enough roads in the Ararat yard for stabling, even as an interim measure. Then reopen the Ballarat-Geelong line for passenger services.
Would have loved to hear your thoughts about Wonthaggi rail, with Anderson station that would service San Remo and Phillip island (with a connecting bus) have a combined population of 15000 and Wonthaggi with a population 18000 means that what is a considerably shorter stretch of track than Mildura but services the same amount of people. Also the corridor still exists but new tracks have to be laid with some stations simply needing to be opened back up and others rebuilt.
It'd cost about $500 million (conservatively) to build out (about 90 km of new Class 1 tracks + 5 stations + sidings and the like) and about $20 million a year to provide 8 return trips on weekdays and 6 on weekends - as a shuttle to Dandenong or $30 million to go all the way to Southern Cross or Flinders Street. And serve about 55k including Lang Lang, Nyora and Koo Wee Rup - the population not unlikely to double if the train was built, along with say a hospital and schools upgrade and some social housing work. It could easily provide a 50-60 minute Wonthaggi - Dandenong Service and maybe 100 minutes to Melbourne - a little faster than driving.
One thing that really should’ve happened on the Gippsland line was quad tracking when they did the level crossing removals
Great video but would prefer if there were maps showing where these places and lines are, because not everyone knows about all of these places.
Will make sure to put more maps in in future.
Passing loop location is dependent on a number of factors. Line speed, service frequency and the timetabling of opposing services. So given the variables it's not surprising that passing loop locations are not in the plan.
I am beginning to tink that all V/line and freight-only (eg to the ports) tracks should be converted to standard gauge, with the lines shred with Metro converted to dual gauge. This would mean that metro lines would largely remain unchanged and the entire Metro network remaining compatible, whilst at the same time all freight lines ad all V/Line would be compatible thus removing the barriers to improved services seen in the west & north west. For lines which are to be electrified, such as Bacchus Marsh or Tarneit, this could be done concurrently (no pun intended).
Possibly, though for some lines e.g. Gippsland there would be little point converting to standard gauge. But we definitely need more gauge conversion.
Hit 400k!
In the 1970's, electric trains ran to Laverton, coal trains from Gippsland to Geelong, changing locomotives at Laverton.
You mean Electric locomotive powered goods trains, not suburban passenger trains.
L class electric locomotives. I did not say SUBURBAN trains.
@@neilbeatty7251 Yes the L class which ran to Traralgon. Can't remember what loco's they used for the Leongatha/Yarram services? Was it T class? S class?
@@neilbeatty7251 You know, one thing I don't get about the state govt beauracrats that plan the Metro network. Why is it that Laverton gets suburban trains terminating there yet Melton, Healesville, Whittlesea and Mornington get absolutely nothing?
And they aren’t even running a SINGLE Velocity To Warrnambool! 😂😂
For Horsham and Mildura line as far as Donald,the easiest solution is to introduce more shuttle services between Ararat and Ballarat and between Maryborough and Ballarat to allow more services on to Horsham and Donald meaning that a Wendouree service could run as six car VLocity and one of the units get detached off the train and continue to Maryborough and the remaining unit could continue to Wendouree connecting to an Ballarat to Ararat shuttle around five minutes before the Maryborough service departs Ballarat meaning anyone on the Mildura line as far as Donald can travel to Horsham by train only and vice versa.In other words,this means if you want to travel to Donald or Horsham from Southern cross or wherever you live,you can take a day trip to Donald or Horsham without waiting too long.things like rebuilding passing loops between Ballarat and Maryborough at Sulky,Tourello and Talbot.Talbot station would receive an upgrade as well as making two new passing loops at Creswick and Clunes.For the Ararat line a passing loop could be built somewhere between Beaufort and Ararat and the five passing loops between Ararat and Horsham could allow 5 more SG VLocitys to be built and one standard gauge VLocity could be stabled at Horsham for the entire day.the Ballarat bound connections would be good connection times as well,the Maryborough line could arrive about five minutes before a service to the city which will come from Wendouree
At the 9 minute mark, where was that brick rail bridge with the arches? Where in Victoria is that guys? 🙌😃
That's the Malmsbury viaduct on the Bendigo line, a few hundred metres from Malmsbury station.
And it’s bluestone. Not brick (well not clay brick anyway).
The bridge at 12:30 Where is it?
Currently Sth Geelong to Waurn Ponds is being duplicated, as is the outer portion of the Traralgon line.
there is a gap of about 1km over the barwon river on the waurn ponds duplication not being duplicated (+ geelong - south geelong).
There is no duplication being undertaken on the traralgon line excluding the small gap from Bunyip to Longwarry which will result in a fully duplicated line from Melbourne to Moe.
There need to be a solution to catering on the long distance Vlocity variant (even if is a drink and a snack vending machine). The loss of catering on the Bairnsdale Vlocities is a pain. The consist of 2x3 car sets currently makes reinstating a catering car complex (and probably doesn’t turn over enough money to justify the space required)
I suspect that whenever the new long-haul vlocities (that have catering) are delivered Bairnsdale services will go back to having catering, but if not, that's just ridiculous and it needs to change
@@MetroManMelbourne The most realistic solution is probably a UK style trolley service, with the trolley switching between 3 car sets at stations.
Great video, I’ve enjoyed the series.
Velocities shouldn't be running all the way to Bairnsdale anyway, only to Traralgon.
The future of V Line? I see the Mildura line re-opening soon, I see trains returning to Leongatha, Horsham and Mt Gambier (via Hamilton & Portland) and I see V Line remaining as Australia's oldest, largest and busiest regional train network!
Noice.
The Geelong fast train is a stupid idea that requires special trains, special maintenance facilities and special skills. What's needed is an enhanced regional service, preferably fully electrified, that runs to major stations about an hour outside Melbourne (e.g. Geelong Ballarat, Kyneton, Seymour, Traralgon). This is the Swiss system of having a major city with satellite towns some distance away and served by good rail services.
As for extending all Seymour trains to Shepparton, forget it. It would be better to alternate the destinations between Benalla and Shepparton. Benalla is only 70 minutes by road from Wodonga and would have a large catchment up in NE Victoria. (NB. There might an issue here with gauges too.)
A line to Hamilton and Portland really needs a join across the fork at Maroona so that trains could go straight through. Mind you, a station at Maroona South could meet a bus service that would take passengers up to Ararat and even to Stawell. Co-ordination with services that did go directly to Ararat would be wise.
And why not extend the Cranbourne line out to Koo-Wee-Rup? Get in now before development along that corridor causes a major problem.
I wouldn't say the geelong fast rail project is stupid - it's certainly necessary eventually - but other things on that line could be done right now (duplication to waurn ponds, electrification to wyndham vale, projects to improve reliability) that would certainly be just as beneficial if not more. As for your proposal for an "enhanced regional service" - I 100% agree, but it should follow a proper fast rail model rather than a commuter style train. That way it always wins against the car.
With relation to extending seymour trains to shepparton, no way all of them should be extended, but having every other train go to Shepparton would be great. Shepparton is only slightly further away than Bendigo, not to mention it has a population of 50,000 and close to 100,000 along the whole route from Melbourne. As for improving services to Benalla - I do agree with this, really Albury should have 5 trains per day at minimum and preferably some local trains just from Seymour to Albury or Benalla to Albury etc. The problem with extending Seymour trains to Benalla is gauge, as you mention, so it would probably be better to just improve services on the SG.
In my opinion Portland trains should serve Ararat even if this requires going up from Maroona and back initially, though long-term they can run via Ballarat anyway which would mean it wouldn't actually be that much of an issue. Though if going up to Ararat was an issue it could be eliminated.
The Cranbourne line should also most definitely be extended out to Koo-Wee-Rup, in fact I'd argue to put it out to Lang Lang and reinstate the freight train from the sand mines at Lang Lang to reduce the amount of trucks on the road. I suspect that the Clyde extension might have a "part 2" and be extended to Koo Wee Rup / Lang Lang shortly after.
What ? build something ahead of the population growth , it may be a convenience for the new residents
Traralgon line's problem is that it tries too hard to be a suburban train at times. The other problem is that you can't have increased electrification without a reliable 24/7 power supply, and Victoria's State Government has never shown itself to be the biggest fan of hydro, coal or nuclear.
Recouping the costs is always an issue. A suburban line probably carries 95% of its traffic during peak hours and being almost empty outside those hours isn't a problem. Fast services to cities and towns within an hour of Melbourne would probably have a similar balance. But what about longer distance regional services? I'm not so sure. There seems to be a lot of "Build it and they will come" thinking going on, but will "they" ever be enough to pay for the service either directly or indirectly? One argument is that more passenger trains will mean less wear and tear on roads and therefore a cost saving, but that doesn't really stack up because it's large trucks that mainly damage roads, not cars.
I wonder if Victoria should be looking at small radial networks out of places like Bendigo and Ballarat that will carry people from outlying towns into those cities either for work there or to feed in to services to Melbourne. Echuca is a case in point. Five daily trains to Bendigo that co-ordinated with Melbourne-bound trains within five or 10 minutes would seem to be a smart option. The problem is of course that running "half a service" isn't much less expensive than running a "whole service" because in both cases the track needs to be in good condition, signalling has to all work and a train driver is needed; the only real savings are in the rolling stock and the fuel they burn.
Public transport, just like any other public service, does not make money, and has not for many many decades. And that’s perfectly fine. A project being “financially viable” now means that it has more benefit to the economy than it costs to build - not that it makes money.
Also traralgon and Morwell station upgrades to
Hi, there I have been liking your videos but are or would there be a train running for the TTL to the city center of Melbourne I have had a look and there is a line in place and all so that may be a video so thank you and stay safe.
TTL?
What’s the TTL?
Hi, there the TTL is the ship that is going from Devonport to Melbourne
If successive shortsighted governments hadn't slowly dismantled our branch line system, we wouldn't have to rely on buses. Victoria used to have the best branch line network. Will this scheme include re-introducing the Vinelander to Mildura?
I highly doubt the bendigo line will be fully reduplicated as part of RRR considering how neglectedly it has been treated the past half century. It used to be considered the main line but it is now single track - what a joke.
They'll probably just build a new passing loop most likely Malmsbury station as there are currently single sections between Kyneton and Taradale, Taradale to Castlemaine, Castlemaine to Ravenswood (Harcourt North), and Ravenswood and the South side of Bendigo
As there is a huge gap between Kyneton and Taradale imo they should build a new loop there, which would enable half hour service to Bendigo.
There is literally no point adding more crossing loops, the issue is the crossing loops now as trains get stuck in them. I don’t see what else they would do than duplication to be honest.
@@MetroManMelbourne good point, maybe they should
12:30 "you've heard of the suburban rail loop. Now get ready for the regional rail loop"
as if that will ever happen, possibly in the distant future for geelong to Ballarat though.
I mean yes please
What kind of demand do you envisage? Train services shouldn't be outright gifts from taxpayers who will never use them.
@@johnm838 from memory the business case from 2013 suggested that patronage on a Geelong - Ballarat - Bendigo service would exceed that on some current long-distance lines.
How about rebuilding the Mornington line and upgrade the Stony Point line
Heritage railway for Mornington what will happen to that
@@Lachtrain that doesnt mean anything just because there is a tourist railway doesnt mean anything victrack could hand over the lease at any time
Then what going to happen to the locos and it would be expensive to restore to main line state as the majority of the line is overgrown and a new Mornington station
Definitely some projects that would be worthwhile.
If they can upgrade the track for the inland fast route between Queensland and Victoria then of course upgrading the Mornington line is doable. The population down there and the amount of commuting justifies it, what's more Frankston is a major centre and a decent train will carry traffic to and from there.
1:30
Ahh, how Victorian something like that would be 🤣
What about melbourne to mount gambier
Need to add a third track between Dandenong & Caulfield. Duplication on all lines. I have never understood why all lines are not double track. No one has given me a good answer as to why duplication is not viable. The best way is to improve lines is to give all long distance lines at least 5 trains per day maybe more Shepparton should have at least 10-15 trains
How about the Belgrave line, where the narrow embankment from Upper Ferntree Gully to Upwey makes it *enormously* expensive to duplicate that section?
@@enochliu8316 should still be duplicated. Single track is useless in 2022.
@@anakinskywalker4113 My opinion is that single track is useless except for short sections at the terminus, where the downside of delaying trains doesn't exist. Williamstown and Sandringham lines have single platforms at their ends, while the Alamein line has a short section that is single track, but does not delay trains.
@@enochliu8316 I agree with you.
There was 3 tracks between Caulfield and Dandenong in the 80s cozI used the trains then.
What happened to the third track?
they have been talking about opening the Harcourt station up for the pass 10 years my option is that is will never happen also the worst thing vline ever done it ripped up the second line to bendigo btw i worked on the old D van at bendigo vline workshop in the late 80
Love VLine but living on the Gippsland line means i spend more time on a bus than a train. and When I do get a train is takes 2 hours to get into the city because we get stuck behind the Met. It means unfortunately that the train is slower than driving.
Yeah, there definitely needs to be some express tracks built to Dandenong ASAP.
@@MetroManMelbourne I would be happy even if they ran services between Pakenham and Traralgon as well as into the city so that at least passengers can travel through Gippsland. If i want to go from Moe to Morwell (1 stop) I still have to wait an hour between trains and if ones Traralgon bound are late it really makes it hard.
@@MetroManMelbourne also an additional line/track b/w Dandenong and Caulfield would be good as we slow down significantly in SE Melbourne. What are the chances.......?
Maybe if the rarara rail supporters hadn’t wet themselves over Skyrail we might have a viable solution. Skyrail has killed absolutely any ability to build a continuous 3rd track along from Caulfield to Dandenong because of cost. Forever placing the expanding south east suburbs to slower and slower trains. Slow hand clap.
@@mikechadwick8163 nil thanks to those that supported Skyrail. A cheap constrained solution if there’s ever was one.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Bendigo line was a dual track line all the way to Bendigo, before the Government of the day decided as a "cost cutting/safety measure" to turn it into a single track with passing loops above Kyneton, as far as I'm concerned this was the dumbest decision anyone ever made in Government, and believe me there's been some dooseys, now you're saying that they want to return it to dual track again, what a waste of money doing it in the first place, it should have been left as it was from the begining, talk about farsighted Government.
very stupid indeed; saying new vlocity trains need more space in the 19th century tunnels and classic viaducts when older trains were wider. Not sure if this is true as the Taradale viaduct stayed double track as part of the Elphinstone passing loop, however the Malmsbury viaduct of the same width was kept as single track. Now that they have single track for much of the way, a lot of the single track is RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the corridor, which means if we want to duplicate that, we need to MOVE the single track and THEN build a second line on the side of it. This will cost a lot more.
I couldn't tell you how much my grandfather goes on and on about this.
Removing the double track was one of the worst decisions in the history of rail in Victoria.
The problem with passing loops is that their locations are dictated somewhat by the speed of the trains. What works with good timing for trains of one speed don't necessarily work for faster trains, simply because fast trains travel further in the same time.
I just want services to Leongatha restored instead of spending ridiculous money on more city projects, more money for the country !!
V/Line
Melbourne Metro
Trams
It is shear stupidity that Vline do not run a coach service direct from Hamilton to Ararat picking up passengers in Dunkeld, Glenthompson and Willarua along the way. The Maroona, Hamilton, Portland line
is limited to 40 Km per hour. You could never justify the cost of a passenger service on this line. This line does need a major up grade and the Port of Portland up scaled and more products shipped through the port. Australia has only two natural deepwater ports Dampier in WA and Portland in Victoria and our politicians are to dumb to exploit it . Half filling ships in Geelong and filling the rest in Portland because they cant get out of Port Phillip bay is just plain stupid. They should only have to make one stop and that has to be Portland. As ships are getting bigger the problem is only going to get worse.
Not that this wouldn't be controversial but why not just extend Broad gauge from Ararat to Dimboola rather than build a massive standard gauge link through Ballarat and have to build a lot of viaducts. Or run a train via the middle of nowhere from Ararat to Geelong. I think it would just be a tad easier. You don't have to agree with me btw
Ararat to Horsham. Dimboola's population doesn't warrant it terminating there.
Better to open a service to Mt Gambier via Ararat, Hamilton & Portland.
Bruh all Bairnsdale, albury, Shepparton and some warrnambool are now run by vlos
This video was released in March of 2022
@@MetroManMelbourne oh
You can blame jeff kennets goverment for destroying victorias rail network as he did the same thing to melbounrns tram network.damm him.
PЯӨMӨƧM
from shunshine to geelong on car is 1 hour and v-line is almost 2 hours, very bad service
have you been on a train like... ever???
the timetable is 50 mins geelong to sunshine vs 60 by car lmao
So it’s normal Labour, no plan 🤦
Can’t even spell labor right 💀
Did you even watch the video?
first
nobody cares
volocity cool
SG volcity good but looks uglier then old one
No they don’t they look cooler better then loco hauled ones
@@Lachtrain nah man the SG ones look FAT the old volocitys look better
interior tho is 😍
@@MetroManMelbourne true true they just ruined the outside
It just looks like it made for long distance and anyway vline should really build some sg trains or more sg vlo to reopen sg lines but they do their job