How To Return Trains To Horsham
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2022
- In 1993 V/line ceased running trains past Ballarat cutting off towns such as Ararat, Stawell, and Horsham from the rail network. This video will investigate how and why trains should be returned to this region of Victoria.
A big thanks to the following for footage:
@trainsstawell
• N class at Stawell fir...
06:34 - 07:00, 07:42 - 08:01
@conegg
• C-S-S on 9150 1993
00:29 - 00:57
@thelastname2k
• Today Tonight 1994
00:58 - 01:15
@talgoSpain
• Variable gauge system ...
09:34 - 10:47, 14:48 - 15:00
and @MooTransit
If you are interested in how we can improve the Overland I recommend viewing these excellent videos:
@AussieWirraway
• The Overland: Why It S...
@Taitset
• The Overland - How can...
Thanks very much for watching and if you enjoyed I would appreciate it if you could subscribe :) 
Кино
Great work! I feel like momentum is really starting to build on this again, and I suspect we'll see some of service returned within the next 5-10 years. As you say, it's by far the easiest passenger service to reinstate anywhere in the state. Whatever the best long term option is, I think it would be great if they just started running an Ararat-Horsham shuttle sooner rather than later. Obviously some more SG VLocities is one option, but I actually think they should have grabbed the SG N sets displaced from Albury and used those, probably with a little refurbishment. Might not be perfect, but could be implemented very quickly and would be miles better than the bus.
I had considered this option and written about it in the script however when V/line sold off the majority of this rolling stock I decided to remove it. It would have been interesting though, glad you enjoyed!
I really hope so
Trains defeat buses, any day of the week!.
The easiest solution would be to dual gauge the line from Ararat to Horsham, it would allow the use of both standard and broad gauge trains to travel through to Horsham. However the use of standard gauge would allow future expansion through to Mt Gambier which would be converted to SG as the right of way is presently mostly out of life.
It would be possible to have a standard gauge VLOSITY railcar based in Adelaide and run it to Ararat where it would connect with a broad gauge train to Melbourne. The option would save about two hours on the Melbourne Adelaide train route. Operated by VLINE, of course!
The Ballarat line is still mostly single track. As the line gets busier more tracks will inevitably be needed, so when a second track is added make the second track dual gauge.
Lines are rated at 115 or 160 km but often slowed by speed restrictions because of poor track maintenance. Also the standard gauge track is very slow going through the Melbourne and Tottenham yards before finally getting to pass Newport station on the way to Werribee. This section alone can take up to an hour.
Great video. I would love to see an improved and regular rail service between Melbourne and Horsham. 👍
Thanks glad you enjoyed, anything would be better than the current coach service
Great video. Very well researched, I love that you have looked into and presented multiple options.
IMO the best option is something that helps speed up the transition to SG as that's what's causing the issue here and the first recommendations to switch over to SG are getting onto 100 years old at this point, so it's way overdue.
So in the case of Horsham and passenger trains, I'd firstly convert the Geelong-Ballarat line to SG and reopen passenger service there as it can be done for less than $100m (Going by the 2014 report) and more importantly, opens up an alternative route to Ballarat from Melbourne. I'd then convert the line from Ballarat to Marybugger to SG using DG as required throughout the city as DGs speed limitations aren't a problem there, with the overall goal being that you can start running shuttles between Marybugger and Ararat along the already-converted Avoca line that interconnect with the BG services from Ballarat. At that point, you can convert the line between Ballarat and Ararat and possibly even the main Melbourne one, although for the Melbourne one I'd actually look at conversion via duplication. (ie. We build a new, SG, track alongside the existing BG one and then convert the BG one when the SG one is finished and being used.)
Some good ideas there. I'm not sure that regional growth population projections are sufficient to justify a business case. Already Maryborough is the least used service and yet has probably the greatest scope for future township development and tourism. Infrastructure is historically a precursor to encouraging economic development. I think tourism will have to drive the improvements which will ulimately benefit residents. I certainly have to acknowledge that V/line coach services are very good and it is only when these services are demonstrated as being inadequate to meet local needs will fixed rail improvements be justified. FWIW.
@@peteranscombe1162 The potential for improved freight throughput over time would help make it up on a cost basis, especially with the potential for lines to get wiped out due to washouts and the like leading to "backup" routes being increasingly important. With all else removed, the fuel savings from being able to go direct via Ballarat would add up over enough time.
@@TheDemocrab that would be interesting research. The topography around Ballarat is major obstacle and is probably one of the main reasons SG went Geelong to Ararat. I agree with the principle of having alternative backup options in the case of the unexpected. I am sure users of the Princes Freeway from Geelong to Melb this week would agree. Also keep in mind the urban creep along the Ballarat line and the scheduling of services from Southern Cross along with organic growth of urban rail after the new underground line and airport line.
I believe Dual Gauge track is speed limited to 80km/h so should be avoided as an option.
@@pvda64BG trains are limited to 80km/h on DG line, but SG trains are not.
On top of that, the Horsham line currently is limited to 65km/h so 80km/h is literally better than what already exists there. (Which is something a very quick Google would have told you.)
I personally think building a standard gauge line alongside the existing Ballarat line would be a good idea, that line can be used as an Express line for people in Ballarat that would like to not have to stop too often, especially when entering Melbourne, as Well as giving people in Ararat and Horsham a fast service. The Seymour group of lines has this model where Albury services run express to and from Seymour only stopping at Broadmeadows on the way. and then stopping all stations to Albury from Seymour. So maybe trains can run local to Ballarat (Not stopping at Wenduree) and then run express to Melbourne, Stopping at Bacchus Marsh and Melton only before continuing on the express line, the most simple solution would be to build the express line via Wyndham vale or through a new tunnel to Sunshine and joining the existing Standard gauge line to Melbourne, This plan would probably trigger the conversion of all broad gauge track across Victoria to Standard gauge, but this would require multiple shutdowns. and it would be expensive, particularly in the City Loop.
Fix the core problem - phase out broad gauge and narrow gauge and replace them with standard gauge in all of Australia.
Looking forward to this landmark event in RUclips history!
Don’t think I’m quite that status but thanks anyway
I think Ballarat should be used as a standard gauge hub for a number of reasons. This will bring services to Mildura and Horsham, and hopefully one day a daily V/locity service to Adelaide that will see us stop subsidising a private company for a Sub-par service. For starters having Standard gauge shuttle services run from a major centre than a tiny outlier makes a lot more sense as people travelling from Ballarat don't have to change. People travelling from Melbourne also have the option of catching an earlier train and having a lunch or dinner stop over in Ballarat before continuing their journey, maybe with Family or friends who live there, which wouldn't be possible if you had to take the tight connecting service from Maryborough or Ararat, without changing more than once. It also means the standard gauge services are closer to a drivers hub and maintenance centre lowering costs of labor/ dead running and improving reliability. Also wouldn't get in the way of freight trains at Ararat whilst waiting for their next trip.
Great Video. Really well explained. Amazing info
gauge convertible trains etc. be the best option in the short to medium term, travelling through Ballarat, with a combination of shuttles between Ararat through to Dimboola and a full SG trip from Southern Cross through to Horsham/Dimboola to service towns along the SG route via Geelong, plus have the usual coach services in the region that rail doesn't cover (eg Ballarat-Ararat road coaches). with the potential for a SG/Dual-Track upgrade of the Ararat Broad-Gauge line in the long term
Nice video, I hope I can one day ride a V/Line train to Horsham. Would be interesting to see the potential of service to Dimboola as well.
One more stop would be nice, I believe services terminated at Dimboola in the past as it is a driver change point, even though it has a much smaller population at around 1500
Kaniva or Bordertown!!!!
@@garynewton1263 The Overland stopping at Kaniva would be a start. Last I heard, there’s no longer a station building.
@@maxrebo8455 No station building at Kaniva? Thats crazy. Its a great little town with a nice aura. Beats the hell out of Nhill and Serviceton.....both shitholes. Who the hell took this infrastructure away? And who gave them permission to do it?
Were supposed to be improving Victoria, not destroying it.
@@garynewton1263 the station at Kaniva burned to the ground several years ago by memory.
An inexpensive interim idea would be to use surplus Xplorer diesel railcar sets from NSW. Sufficient speed, comfort and catering standards to match existing services. Run it as a shuttle to start with, to build up patronage. Then experiment with services running Horsham/Melbourne via Geelong and see if demand exists for a service along that route.
Because passengers will want to use a service that adds 2 hours to travel time via Geelong. 🤦♀️🤦♀️ . The idea is to make the alternative attractive, not convince them a car is better.
Standard Gauge six car sets to a new station at Maroona, activating transport options at Inverleigh, Derinallum. Split the set, Japanese style, with 1 set to Horsham, Dimboola and Nhill, 2nd set to Dunkeld, Hamilton, Heywood and Portland
You could use the old Albury trains from Ararat to Horsham on a trial basis they are equipped for that line.
My theory is expanding your Option 3.
As more VLocity sets come on line it will free up Sprinters which could be SG converted and used as shuttles from Hamilton & possibly as far west as Dimboola linking to Ararat BG VLocity services to Ballarat & Melbourne.
They could also run Sprinters on regular services to and from Geelong using the SG line to swap Sprinters for maintenance work and the like similar to how they shuttle two Sprinters to Frankston for the Crib Point line..
Nice work. We took The Overland from Adelaide to Melbourne this Sunday.
It’s a nice service but the hours and frequency aren’t really suitable for folks trying to get to morning medical appointments in Ballarat and Melbourne.
The shuttle seems like the best option to start, though Dimboola shouldn’t be discounted as the starting point either as it’s an up and coming tourist town with a beautiful old red brick station building that’s larger than Horsham’s.
I personally think Victoria needs to finish the One Nation plan and convert the rest of there regional rail to Standard Gauge (Minus the Gipland routes since they are selft contained within Victoria). While this solution is taxing and would majorly disrupt services across the states its the only real long term solution that would do away with all these problems.
There's a lot of thought gone into this problem, and there are many solutions to it. Eventually the dual gauge line from Maryborough to North Geelong will be completed which will run through Ballarat, this would facilitate the running of Standard Gauge Velocities via Ballarat to Ararat and then on to Horsham, and maybe Dimboola. That's another option, but in the meantime the people in Horsham are crying out for a frequent rail service to and from Melbourne. The interim option of taking the present Broad Gauge Velocity to Ararat and changing to a Standard Gauge Velocity, while harking back to the old days of a change of gauge station, seems to be the better option to go for. I for one would not want to do that long loop through North Geelong and Cressy to Ararat.
Agree. Doing a rail tour of western Victoria via Geelong is not a way to restore rail to Horsham. You are meant to create a viable fast direct alternative: not provide people with a reason to go back to a car. I mean the bus would be more direct.
May as well run it to Dimboola, as the depot is there, as is another company's depot. Driver exchange point for both.
imo I think the line to Horsham and a lot of the other regional rail lines should be converted to dual gauge, would be better for futureproofing and would allow for more direct routes making it less of a hassle so people done have to change services
I think a good option is to take the current broad gauge line to Stawell. It is only 30 kms out of Ararat and is relatively big. Horsham is very far away, but could have a standard gauge service from Stawell to Dimboola or Nhill, via Horsham. If gauge converter trains enter service, then there will be no need for it, as they can just change the gauge at Ararat like you stated in the video.
Went to Horsham for christmas holiday... they had a few freight trains coming by now
Forgot to say, a great video and argument.. cheers from an ex VIC. Cheers from Wagga.
Awesome
They should extend the service to either Kaniva or Bordertown.
There should be a Melb to Mt Gambier service vis Hamilton also.
Overland services could be increased and an added stop at Kaniva could be added to better serve this area, even with a train to Horsham, coach journeys from populations west of Horsham would be shortened as well as overall journey time with passengers able to connect to trains at Horsham.
@@MooTransit Always ptoblems and issues with Rail in Australia.
Mt Gambier must happen in fact the Victorian state govt should have a plan to take over South Australia completely.
Bloody embarrasing that Horsham isn't serviced.
My problem is I expect too much of my home state! 😉
Another idea is to add a broad gauge line parallel to the SG line to Horsham and redo Platform 2 at Ararat to be a through platform as opposed to a dock platform. It wouldn't cost that much as the alignment is already there, the existing rollingstock can be used, and it wouldn't require expensive gauge-changing facilities or bogies.
To put the dock platform through at Ararat, they would have to knock down and rebuild the station buildings and re align the road outside the station.
@bradcollins2114 an easy fix could be constructing a section of dual gauge track at existing through platform. I'm no engineer or expert in the idea of rail operation but dual gauge seems to work everywhere else and would only require one additional piece of rail and a few sleepers
As I mentioned earlier Dual Gauge is apparently limited to 80km/h running and as for side by side BG & SG tracks there is a lot of bridges and cuttings to modify to handle the width the 2nd track would require,
Well researched and presented. Multi-gauge conditions stiil inhibit transport infrastructure development in Australia. Road coaches are crampted and not comfortable. I think the standard-gauge shuttle is a good start. Investment in station improvements would also be there for gauge convertable trains in the future. Any investment in this corridor would likely kill off the Overland as Victoria would withdraw its subsidy.
Thank you, hopefully any improvements of service in this area could ask include upgrades to the current overland service and incorporation into the new timetable
Here's an idea why not run a standard gauge passenger train from Portland Hamilton Ararat then on to Stawell Horsham possibly Dimboola Kaniva and even Bordertown and these trains to connect with Melbourne up/down trains at Ararat
Just a thought 🤔
I like the option of adding a Standard Gauge service but i run it was Melbourne to Nhill then back from Nhill to Horsham for stabling - with the Alterative train running a service that started at Horsham to Nhill then Nhill back to Melbourne. As Standard trains are now V/Lows - changing ends can happen in platform.
Standardising the Ararat-Ballarat-Melbourne line as well as Maryborough plus those that branch off them should be done. Upgrades to level crossings beyond Ararat also should be done.
One thing that seems to be overlooked in the discussion of SG for passenger services is the vagaries of the prime purpose of SG being for freight, both interstate and grain. Scheduling passenger services amongst the primary demands of slow moving and highly variable at short notice interstate and regional freight movements would be a nightmare for everyone.
Convert Victoria to Standard Guage problem solved. Down side is heritage railway operations would now be limited to suburban running.
Cool video Rail Rover
i like that 5th option
Best way to do it is simple, standard to ballarat to begin with, interchange in ballarat, then standardise ballarat to melbourne, no reason it should take too long to change gauge, upgrade to heavier, better rail with concrete sleepers the entire way. Small inconveniences in the short term with long term advantages. Unfortunately i cannot see it happening with suburban services on melbourne all being broad gauge
Interesting video! How about a dual gauge track? The Albury-Southern Cross train uses dual gauge track.
No it doesn't. Between Southern Cross and Seymour, it runs on stand alone standard gauge track. Only time it's on dual gauge track is in Melbourne. After Seymour, it's all standard gauge track.
Aren't there speed restrictions on duel gauge lines ?
Here's an idea why not run a standard gauge passenger train from Portland Hamilton Ararat then on to Stawell Horsham possibly Dimboola Kaniva and even Bordertown and these trains to connect with Melbourne up/down broad gauge train
Just a thought 🤔
Here's my considered view. I'd think the shuttle would proving grounds for the service. However, like the Frankston Service, the railcar would need to return to Melbourne at some point for servicing. So, I'd consider running the 3-5 services. Each connecting a corresponding Ballarat/Melbourne VLo Service. Naturally, Stabling in Horsham, or personally I'd take it further to Dimboola, would be required, as well as fuelling. Each a late afternoon services could leave Southern Cross bound for Ararat, and still connect with a later leaving Ballarat Service, forming the 2nd to last and last service of the day from Ararat to Dimboola. It would also then provide an additional cross regional connection in Geelong. Nominally, the one that did this the previous day, would return in a similar manner. Not sure of the logistics, but at least it's not dead running, and if passengers don't want to change, they won't have to.
Rail Rover, Well researched! But the next step is actually to electrify all rail Services to achieve zero emissions. Let’s Suggest an experimental train set be designed that combines 1) Tarago gauge change, 2) Tilt technology and 3) roof top hydrogen storage in one Australian-built passenger train. These 3 technologies already exist and by using Federal GHG funding it could be a test system, where the 3 companies build together. Eventually it could run between Adelaide and Melbourne in less than 6 hours and replace the $200,000 pa Govt subsidy that keeps the 10-hour Overland running as Tourist train. But don’t let this esoteric thinking overshadow your excellent down-to-earth presentation.
Great video, just want to point out that Holland isn’t a country, it’s a part of the Netherlands👍
what about a duel gauge from ararat to horsham saving changing bogies like they did from maryborough to Dunolly
Would it be possible to make the track from Ararat - Horsham dual gauge? I imagine this would be cheaper than gauge convertible trains
I recon the service should be operated by a early morning/night shuttle service from Ararat to Horsham and services to and from Melbourne in the day (around 10:30am and 3:30pm)
That’s what the Horsham city council is pushing for.
If SG velocity’s run to Albury now, why not to Horsham?
The problem is that the sleepers are not set up for dual gauge.
Complete novice here but could standard gauge service to Horsham be used to punch the line back to Mildura? From what I know they are standard gauge up there because of freight?
Apologies if I’ve hashed it all up lol
Why complain? Here in SA we have no country passenger service.
Yeah I'm jealous, but in a good way. Here's hoping you do get more improvements. The whole country needs better rail infrastructure, and it is good to see things improve in Vic.
What is the cost of the gauge change facility?
How about a dual=gauge line between Ararat to Horsham.
Gauge changing trains are best however a high speed intercity service would serve these areas better
Just make a duel gauge track from Ararat to Dimboola.
Why couldn't they have duel gauge track from Arrarat to Horsham ?
The reason I didn’t consider this option was that when BG and SG are used together in dual gauge, because they are so close together the broad gauge is speed limited to 80kmph, it’s likely that in the future more lines will be converted to standard gauge as well.
And now there are standard gauge Velocities running to Albury, the government has no excuse
Forgive my ignorance, but why isn't dual-gauge track an option?
run a std gauge train from ararat to nhill connecting up with Ararat trains
Duplicate the broad gauge line in standard gauge to Ararat and continue to Horsham
I second that it should run as far as Horsham make the terminal there instead of ararat
Great video.
We need to flipping STOP converting tracks to standard gauge. It’s stupid. We can’t have half broad gauge and half standard as the metro network will never be converted. And we’ll end up with a disconnected state. With equipment that can’t be transferred. And standard gauge is not as good as broad. It’s simple the default because of NSW.
Why should the taxpayer fund a reinstated broad gauge because of a pack of stupid public servants.
Ideally everything except Metro would be standard gauge, Metro only due to price. A fully Standard Gauge regional network would be great for the economy in the longterm and simplify running, as well as allowing reopening of passenger lines without hurting more valuable freight.
In terms of freight, it also allows for easier movement of more products to more destinations around Australia without the need for interchange, for example if the Manangatang and Sea Lake lines where standardised it would allow for a direct connection to Portland, a deep sea port where bigger ships are available to export more product
If we’ve started converting broad to standard we might as well keep going as the standard gauge network allows for more connections into NSW and South Australia as well as within Victoria
Here is the simplest way to make it better. SG the whole of the vline lines and convert most of your vlocities to SG.
Looking at the populations in the area and using that to guesstimate the amount of potential commuters served isn't right imo, there's also folk who travel to Horsham, Stawell and Murtoa from other cities closer to Melbourne.
I for one know if they reestablished pax trains to Hamilton I'd be regularly catching it from Ballarat.
This is looking only at new customers who didn’t have a train previously, people could travel to these towns from other places as well
You could have Standard Gauge Vlocities running direct from Portland to Horsham with 3 trains per day and services in both directions connecting at a rebuilt Ararat Station for a transfer to an Ararat Train to Melbourne, which would also help with cross regional connections, while it would be more indirect than driving, if the line could be upgraded such that Portland to Hamilton (1 hour), Hamilton to Ararat (1 hour), Ararat to Ballarat (>1 hour) and Ballarat to Melbourne express (1 hour) the service with the connection would be faster than driving.
PS: the Vlocity trains are the most useless trains you’d want to run on any service over two hours. They are the most squashed uncomfortable seats out. And with the reduction of toilets are a joke.
The short haul V/locity does feature a reduction in toilets but standard gauge V/locitys which could run this service do not, the seats could be improved but are more padded than the other models, future models could include better seats as this has been an issue flagged by many people
The short haul V/locity does feature a reduction in toilets but standard gauge V/locitys which could run this service do not, the seats could be improved but are more padded than the other models, future models could include better seats as this has been an issue flagged by many people
don’t try this at home
Gage changing system.
Kaniva! Kaniva! Kaniva! Bugger Horsham. Kaniva has a much better Cafe.
Kaniva is a much nicer town than Nhill and Horsham.
Please get the fuckin train running to Kaniva and make Roger Merrett proud!
For as long as I can remember (I'm 75) Horsham has always claimed to be the Mecca of the Wimmera! It is no surprise that this proposed extension stops here and ignores the rest of the line. In the VR days there was a weekday return railcar service from Serviceton to Dimboola, joining the regular service to Melbourne.
A liberal closing shit down - never happened. Just ask a Liberal voter. 😆😆😆
Labor singling a a major trunk line to the 3rd biggest rural city or closing dozens of rural stations. Or promising to restore Mildura and still waiting. Or spending money on pork barrelling stations in a town of 300 with no passengers where resources could be spent elsewhere. Nah! But hey Labor are transport friendly.
@@xr6lad Get a little triggered did we?
Trains are dead, no patronage