Here in the UK, we in the 50s and 60s essentially closed ALL our tramways across the country, with one exception, the seaside town of Blackpool. We ended up regretting it, when road traffic in cities got worse and worse, but in the 2000s, we started rebuilding tramways - Sure enough, they've been highly successful, and there are more tramways planned. This is a great video, mainly because Melborne's tram history is super interesting.
Thank you! In australia we did the same - with all major cities except Melbourne removing their trams between 1950 and 1969, but thankfully Melbourne survived with only a few minor closures leaving us with what we have today. The other cities are also reintroducing trams now, Sydney for example opened a new line in 2 stages in 2019-20.
@@kieranstravels Here in Manchester (first UK city to abandon all trams, in 1948) we are building many of our new tram routes on old abandoned rail. Sadly there seems to be nothing being done to regenerate past tram routes out of town centre, so for intersuburb transit it's mostly just buses or be brave on a bike
As an Australian resident in Sweden, it is great to see films of your home city. This program was interesting to me for two reasons. In the 60s I worked at the airport and took the Essendon tram right to the terminus at the airport. Earlier in the 50s my grandfather has a Milkbar/Fruiterer shop at the terminus of the Barkley Street tram in West Footscray. I did not know where this was but you gave a clue of Russell St, when I checked Google maps, there was a restaurant opposite this corner and looking at the photos there on Google could identify the building where his store was. So thank you MetroManMelbourne and Google for helping me locate his store.
I’m glad I was able to help you with something! I was going to mention that you could tell Russell and Barkly st corner is a tram terminus because of the shops scattered there but I decided to remove it from the final video. It’s definitely one of the major urban development clues the tram used to run there.
Was your grandfather abel to speak French and had a milk bar in the sixties just 20 yards of the corner with Nicholson str. Then I spoke to him but after he started talking French he would not stop. Didn't understand a word but he seemed to be a nice happy fellow. Nice to see these images back.
I thought that te tramlines in Nicholsonstreet were removed because the wooden blocks in the road would make the wrong impression to the Queen if she was visiting Footscray . A proper tarmat was installed and the tramlines had to be removed. 1962 I think it was. The Queen never came but was a good excuse. The wood was used to heat the school high street.@@MetroManMelbourne
Sorry got mixed up with Buckly Street. It's been such a long time ago that I lived there. 60 years, but always regrated not going back. I live in the Netherlands now, so not a ride around the corner@@noelhayward4271
Watching this video 1 year after you released it, I'm glad that your prediction that the domain Rd trams may not return was incorrect. Its always sad to see tram lines being removed instead of added, so its great that this line is reopening soon, once new stops have been constructed.
Fantastic video mate! Always interesting seeing the old tram routes and echos of the past, very in-depth and definitely learned a lot about our local history!
forgotten lines are really interesting since they show the ebb and flow of people's movements. I'm not from melbourne, though half my family is, but man. your trams make me wish we still had them where I live
Why am I literally so addicted to this channel and your videos? I'm literally in my early 20's, but I am so interested in the history of Melbourne metro and your existence to make these videos is everything! Thank you so much!
Victoria railways operated two tram routes. One from St. Kilda station to Brighton beach. The other from Sandringham railway station to Black Rock ( a short time to Beaumaris). Plus the MMTB Point Ormond tram which rang a tram shuttle service from Point Ormond to Elsternwick station closed in 1960. Also I believe Route 77 which rang from the corner of Chapel street and Brighton road and terminated at the Batman Ave terminus.
as I mentioned at the end of the video I intend to make a part 2 on the VR tram lines at some point (and might as well throw in point ormond in there it's so close). The 77 is one of many many old tram routes that although not closed were simply discontinued with other routes running instead.
@@xr6lad It would be good if the Point Ormond tram was still operating. That's why they extended the 246 bus from its terminus on the cnr of Glenhuntly Rd and Barkly st to Elsternwick station. The 246 bus route started in 1938.
@@ctwentysevenj6531 I live about 300 meters from Elsternwick station. It would be very handy and one of the few trams direct to a decent relatively uncrowded beach in summer (St Kilda of course is bedlam) and also goes through a decent set of shops and past three schools in Elwood (and the VFA ground). So plenty of potential passengers.
@@xr6lad Elstie local also checking in (and the tram runs past my front door). A tram line down glen huntly following the original path and then turning right towards St Kilda along the beach would be nice. You can still see some of the OG poles near the roundabout in Elwood.
Good job documenting this man... domain road is funny... i go for walks there often and i had no idea it was closed... a few months ago after going for a stroll in Botanical gardens i was walking along the tracks looking for a tram stop and i had to go into 7/11 to ask the guy where is the tram? and he just said there isnt one anymore and i have to walk around the corner to the toorak rd one...
What an interesting video. I used to walk to work from Epsom Rd and Union St to Farnsworth Ave in the 1950s where Myer had a number of factories and never knew that a tram ran along the streets which I walked
Great post mate done a fantastic job, I came to Australia in 1972 good to see a pic of the then 2 year old Tullamarine airport where we landed, lived in Prahran during my Childhood days and the trams were used regularly either up High St or Malvern Rd for school at Prahran high and on occasions to the city while should have been at school. Anyway looking forward to the follow up, Cheers.
00:11 Photo is of the no.2 tram from the Box HIll to Doncaster tram. An isolated tram line with no connections to the rest of the tram network. This ran from 1889 - 1896. To date, still the only electric rail service of any kind to run to Doncaster. Doncaster has been asking for a rail service for over 130 years now. No sign of anything happening anytime soon.
Yep, a shame that that closed, would have been useful nowadays. Hopefully SRL will link up Doncaster to box hill by rail again within a couple of decades!
Thanks for the memories! I was a conductor out at Camberwell in the mid 90's so I did several Batman Avenue runs. I still think about it when walking to the MCG!
I live on the corner of Brunswick Rd and Lygon st and see the old Fitzroy line every day when I leave my house. I've always been very curious about it so I just had to click this video when I saw it in the thumbnail! Good stuff
Over the ditch here in NZ, all the tramways had been shut down by 1964 - the last one being in Wellington. Now these cities are looking to reinstate light rail, but the plans that are proposed fall way short of a useful system regardless of which city you look at. It is interesting to see that Australia's trams were in part replaced by buses - they did the same thing here by stating that buses were cheaper to run, more flexible in their routes etc.
There have been no serious proposals to convert the lightly used bus routes that replaced these lightly used trams routes back to tramways. More viable route proposals will get priority. So not quite the same as the NZ situation.
“Light Rail” could soon be a misnomer … no need for rails or the overhead lines. Carriages (whether looking like a tram or a bus) can use the normal road surface or reservations and be guided by lines on the road and/or GPS… battery powered, with pantographs at stops to top up the battery. Meanwhile cities like Canberra are spending $billions to lay tracks, culling trees etc to build the overhead power.
@@TheHsan22 If it doesn't use rails then it's a road vehicle, effectively a bus - regardless of how it is powered. Cities around the world that are investing in transport solutions that use rails wouldn't be doing that if there was a better solution. They would be looking for the most cost-effective system and in every case would have done their homework before embarking on a project that requires billions of dollars of taxpayer funds.
@@stopthebus i expect that they are looking at what is happening in China with their new systems. The cost of the trackless system is substantially less than light rail so the Chinese ones don't have drivers either so I am sure that other prospective users are just just erring on the side of caution at this stage.
The terminus at Batman Avenue was also for Route 77 to Prahran which turned into Church Street from Swan Street in Richmond and ran down Chapel Street to Brighton Road. On Sundays it ran as a bus route to East Malvern, turning left into Balaclava Road from Chapel Street which could not be done by tram as the tracks turn in the opposite direction into Carlisle Street. There was a scissors crossover with an island platform at the Batman Avenue terminus. The platform was removed and restored to Street level when route 70 trams were first run with Z class trams. The up track continued as a curve into Swanston Street. I recall seeing trams in service during the morning peak using that curve showing University. They were either special runs from Wattle Park which returned via route 72 or adjustments made by the inspector at Camberwell Junction for late running on route 72. That would have required some strange tram movements involving shunting as the curves connecting Riversdale Road and Burke Road were only single track. This all might sound implausible but being a driver at Hanna Street (yes, there were still a number of W2 class trams that did not have South Melbourne Depot on the destination roll), I can vouch for special workings during peak hours. There was a run in the afternoon that left the terminus at Park Street in St Kilda and followed route 12 to Clarendon Street where it turned into Park Street South Melbourne and then travelled to Moreland via Sturt Street and the city. There was also a run that went to West Coburg via Swanston Street and the Haymarket and an afternoon school run which ran to West Coburg and on the return trip ran back to Flemington Road showing 'Abbotsford Street' and ran from there to South Melbourne Beach via the Haymarket and Swanston Street. There was still a 'picture special' that ran out of South Melbourne at 10.10 pm to West Preston on weeknights to service a picture theatre on Gilbert Road which had long since closed even back in the 70's. Sorry to hijack your post but your video brought back memories as the curves with a small section of track attached were still left with powered trolley wire at both ends of the abandoned Holden Street shuttle and were used to park defective trams. So much changed in 1984 when the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board was dissolved by an act of Parliament (or should I say, an act of vandalism). That eventually resulted in the abandonment of 616 Little Collins Street which was almost sacred. Hope you can do a video showing footage of trams negotiating curves and crossovers which have been removed. Forgot to add that all runs to Melbourne University were in effect special runs as the city terminus was at Franklin Street.
@@70sVRsignalman Hi Philip. Videos like this one also provide a forum for like minds to come together and share. I spent 38 years of my working life on the trams and saw a lot of changes. Unfortunately the current operators of Melbourne's tramway have engaged in a highly successful campaign to destroy what they saw as a problematic work culture which had long been the hallmark of tramway operations. It was very much a larrikin culture which made it more of a way of life rather than a job. The focus was on providing a first class service and doing it for the love of the job, fabulous Melbourne and its people. Now it is all about compliance. A tram ride with a connie collecting fares was an experience. Many of them were characters. Sadly, Melbourne has now lost its soul.
@@jeffrey3895 Dear Jeffrey, thanks for your comments, yes riding the MMTB trams was a true Aussie experience. Unfortunately, we now have "professional Managers"whose alleged skill is managing, and managing means following the latest management trends, "compliance"being a case in point. Both the VR and the MMTB took safety seriously, yet knew when to use a quiet word, and when to make a compliance process of it. Nowadays, the first reaction is to write a work instruction, without realising that a work instruction does NOT deal with the issue, but gives the impression of effective safety compliance, which it is not. Most of these professional managers would not know one end of a tram from the other, seem proud of the fact that their technical knowledge is limited, after all, they are "managers". In the end, the culture of compliance actually has the opposite effect, and undermines the staff's confidence in their experience and actions.Regards
As a boy growing up in Sandringham I remember the Trams departing from Sandringham station travelling along station street turning left up Bay road then turning right along Fernhill road to Royal ave I think it terminated at the end of Royal ave not far from what is now the Sandringham Hospital, thanks for sharing many memories of early Melbourne 🦘👍
@Kerry, The line went all the way to the Clock in Black Rock. It terminated in Bluff Road 50 metres from the Balcombe Road, Beach Road intersection. I travelled on the last tram which was literally stripped by souvenir hunters. Needless to say, it was packed! There was a video of the tram on RUclips, but I can't find it. I think I downloaded it though.
@@lasermodeler Thanks John you ware very lucky to be on the last trip as boys when we came out of pictures we did put pennies on the tram line while sucking on our Choo Choo bars loved living in Sandringham
Nice video mate. I was on the last tram along Domain St and Park Rd. I also know that the photo of the plane flying over the tram at the airport was taken by Jeff Bounds, who is a prolific tramway photographer.
Thank you! I wasn't so active in my tramspotting back in 2017 and missed out on that opportunity, you're lucky to have done that since it may well be the permanent last tram.
There's also the Point Ormond line, the former alignment on Wellington St before the reconstruction of St Kilda Junction, the Puckle St line, and the original alignment on Victoria St in Flemington.
I'll definitely cover some of those in a future part - I excluded the Wellington St line in this video as it is such a small line of low importance (similar to the Sturt St realignment in south melbourne) but maybe I'll include it in future.
The Victorian Railways ran a tram line, St.Kilda railway station via Elwood to Brighton station, broad gauge. When they were putting the roundabout in at Elwood they dug up the road at Glenhuntly Road intersection and the tracks, broad and standard crossing each other, were still there just below the road surface. Glenhuntly Road had a standard gauge tram track from Point Ormond to Elsternwick. The railways also ran a tram service from Sandringham station via Black Rock to Beaumaris, standard gauge. There is a Tramway Parade in Beaumaris.
There is a historical photo available showing a tram going down Barkley St, and turning left into Mitford St. It would have continued down Broadway, to Glenhuntly Rd. I wonder, did it iturn right from there, and down to Point Ormond? Considering the name of the line, I suppose so.
@@russellparratt9859 No, it did not turn, it was a VR broad gauge tram line which ran to Brighton station. The Elsternwick to Point Ormond, running down Glenhuntly Road, was a Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways line and was standard gauge, as all their other tram lines are.
@@blueycarlton I wonder if we are talking about different periods of tram history? I have a copy of a photo I found online, of a tram that is turning left, from Barkly St. into Mitford St. Mitford St now has a median strip, which would have been where the tram line went. It would have continued into Broadway, which also has a median strip. Where the tram line went from there, or if it terminated at the southern end of Broadway, is guesswork. I think I'll try to find this out.
Hi great work. Appreciate the history of our transport system. Just thought you may want to investigate the cable tram line that used to run from Doncaster to Box Hill. Apparently the cable machinery still exists under "Tram Road" Doncaster... thus its name. Hope you can find a gem there. Reg Adrian
Interesting video. I have actually travelled on the Essendon airport tram line back in 1967. My dad and I were here in Melbourne on a holiday from our then home in Sydney. these days, i live in Melbourne and have been here since moving down from Sydney in 1981. I have ridden trams along the old Route 70 to Princes Bridge. The scenery used to be great there looking at the river as we passed.
At the intersection of Bourke St and Spencer St, there was a one metre length of cable tram track still left in the road including the middle track for the grip. This was removed when the right junction was made for the Docklands extenstion.
There was cable track everywhere when I was a kid, but no trams. There was a preserved tram at the back of the old Museum. Is it still there? Also, I remember walking past the "Cable Barn" on the North-east corner of Bridge Road and Punt Road in Richmond in the early 70's. A door was open and to my surprise, the cable drums were still inside. Bridge Road like most of the city's main streets was laid on top of tarred wooden blocks the size of a house brick. They were torn up in the late 70's when the tram tracks were set in concrete.
@@lasermodeler The cable tram in it’s glass case is still around, not sure where. I remember the wooden blocks, as far as I know Riversdale Rd was the last to have them. Apparently there were issues when the cable trams cross rail tracks. The VR didn’t like them. I’ll have to reread how a cable tram crossed rail tracks.
I also recall a bit of cable tram track forming the tramway crossing at the intersection of Flinders Street and Market Street. I believe that it would have been renewed when one of the intersecting lines was converted to electric, but the other was at that stage still cable. So when the other line was converted, they didn't replace the still-pretty-new crossing, which therefore retained the cable slots until much more recently.
Somebody told me a tram used to run from Box Hill to Doncaster, terminated near Doncaster Shopping Town, along time before the shopping centre opened...
There's another tram line which wasn't mentioned in this video. It's a cable-tram route that ran along Rathdowne Street in Carlton North, and was removed before the 1950s. I found out about this at... of all places, a mundane cafe which I had stopped by for lunch. One of the walls had a large wallpaper-print of an old Melbourne map, which also shows the various tram routes in the inner-north. There was a tramline running along Rathdowne on the map. I looked it up on the internet on my phone, and it was true...
Yep, there are plenty of old cable tram lines in Melbourne. Perhaps some day I’ll make a video looking at all the old cable lines and the car sheds, power houses that remain.
The same can be said for at least 4 other lines (Johnston St / Port Melbourne /West Melbourne & Windsor - Esplanade Lines to various degrees) However back to the Rathdowne St Line , it was rather unsurprisingly named the North Carlton Line , it opened on 9th February 1889 and ran from the intersection of Rathdowne St & Park St. at the Northern end via Rathdowne St., Elgin St., Lygon St, Russell St., Lonsdale St.and terminating in Swanston St. From 1897 , after the opening of the St.Kilda Beach Line / Section , the North Carlton Line was through-routed to terminate at the St.Kilda Beach terminus which was at the corner of Acland St & Barkly St. , St.Kilda (Same Terminus as the Windsor-Esplanade Line). The North Carlton - St.Kilda Beach Line Engine / Power house and Depot / Car Barn still stands at the South West Corner of Park St and Rathdowne St , though given oven mostly as residential premises.
Across the ditch in New Zealand, there's a decent number of ex-Melbourne trams in preservation. The mention of the old Footscray network reminds me of the little four-wheel 'X1' tram No. 466, which now runs on Auckland's Wynyard Quarter line.
Its sad to me that the Batman avenue section is gone, I have fond memories of getting on the tram and travelling to Richmond in my teen years, there was a paper stand opposite the terminus that I'd buy gum from, back when Melbourne had a true Metropolitan feel, now it's all gentrified, clean, and has lost its old soul.
Agreed. In the 70s I was quite young and Mum and I would go from Burnley into the city via the Swan st/Batman Ave route. Then we'd walk from there to Myer and Coles. Usually we'd get the train back to Burnley.
The Park St, St Kilda tram didn’t used to travel all the way to the end of Park St. At one point it went up one of the side streets (Mary st) and came out onto Beaconsfield Parade and travel along the median strip there to the Esplanade. Think they rerouted it when they rebuilt that area and connected Beaconsfield parade more directly onto Beach road (50’s? 60’s?). So all up that might have been 1/2km - 1km of track changed.
Yes, it was realigned out of Beaconsfield parade in 1959 to reduce congestion caused by the tram shunting. I will definitely talk about it in a future part :)
Growing up in the 50's In the western suburbs Footscray/ Yarraville Our Tram's were a great way to travel especially for those who did not drive Always caught my tram from the corner of Williamstown Rd & Somerville Rd. To shop in Footscray. They were always on time. ( Great Memories ) Of the past.
There's also the abandoned tracks along part of Harbour Esplanade in Docklands. The road was realigned, but some of the old track has been left in situ.
Yes there is and they are quite interesting. Didn’t include them as they aren’t an old line just an old route before realignment some 20 metres from a current one.
@@MetroManMelbourne I personally hope the Domain Road tram is returned. It is so much nicer travelling along that stretch of road, and I believe more beneficial over all for access.
Forgotten? Who has forgotten any of these? Nor have I forgotten the single track past Wattle park. Or the railway trams from StKilda and Sandringham. I haven't even forgotten that we had a train service to Whittlesea ( and to Healesville and Warburton) where the growth of the population today makes their loss a significant one.
The old Sandringham to Beaumaris route is really easy to spot on a map; a bunch of conspicuous curved corners in an otherwise very gridded neighbourhood. Oh, and "Tramway Parade" is a bit of a give away.
Don't forget the tram from Brunswick / Moreland via the Zoo used to run right through to St Kilda beach if I remember rightly along Kingsway up Park St into St Kilda Rd. I used to catch that tram at Flemington Rd to go to South West Brunswick School in Daly St
Hope your future vid includes the Sandringham tram (Station St Royal Ave Bluff Rd etc). There used to be a video on youtube, and the bus stop near Trentham St has (had?) an old route map. This tram was a Victorian Railways tram, in lieu of a railway extension to Beaumaris via Black Rock. The wide sweeping bend where Fernhill Rd turns to Royal Ave, and the Royal/Bluff intersections, are both remnants of the tram line and its turning alignment requirements. Another to consider is the Esplanade (not The Esplanade!) tram to Brighton Beach.
I believe the Toorak Rd route change was always intended to be permanent as it not only allowed for the construction of the new train station but also allows for the tram route to interact with the new tram interchange. If it kept the old route I don't believe it would be possible. Something I find interesting about this change is that at the time that it happened the businesses along Domain Rd were unhappy as they perceived it would lead to a decline of patronage (I'm not aware of any follow up data as to whether this happened or not). However, when there are talks of extending route 67 from it's existing terminus on cnr of Glen Huntly/Koornang Rds up to the Carnegie Shopping strip on Koornang Rd the businesses there are against it as they believe it will negatively effect patronage. Damned if you do damned if you don't ;-)
Dear offbeatwanders, fully agree, and I think the proposal to extend route 67 is quite sound. The Koornang Rd businesses objected to SkyRail as well, yet subsequently business has increased due to better road traffic flow, and easier pedestrian access, and you rarely hear the trains, whose track bed is supported on large dense rubber blocks !
@@70sVRsignalman it's human nature to always be wary of change and focus on the potential negatives rather than the positives. Fingers crossed it happens and would also be a good link up with the future Caulfield to Rowville trackless tram (not a fan of trackless trams tho, wish they'd gone with proper light rail)
i hope they put the toorak line back, its pretty convenient to be taken all the way up to that back corner of the botanical gardens rather then having to walk all the way from stkilda road
Ahh the old green rattlers. Used to catch them to/from school in the early eighties. It was great if you just missed the service. Just take a big flying leap onto the outside running board and hang on for dear life. 👍👍👍👍
After this series be cool to see the future proposals like the tram to rowville/monash/chadstone and the extension of 75 to knox or equivalent other projects
The Essendon Airport link survived the construction of the Tullamarine Freeway for some years with track over the bridge accessing the airport having track embedded in the bridge.
I grew up in Box Hill North, and I often noticed how the road up to the Box Hill shops was called Station St, but was once called Tram Rd. I think there's a plaque to do with it, in a park area just past Woodhouse Grove
Are you aware of the turning loop that once was part of the old 69 route? The 69 going west along Carlisle Street swung right up the Esplanade. At about where the Luna Park 16/96 stop now is, it swung right somewhat north of the present McDonald's car park, turned right into Acland Street heading south, and turned east joining the 69 route going east. There is a picture of Acland Street on the front of the bar in the Ground floor RSL bar in Acland Street, showing this loop. Cars in the photo appear to be 1950s models, so it must have still been there well past WW2. In Glenhuntly Road west of Nepean Highway to Barkly Street, there are remnants of the tram line that once ran to the headland. Steel poles, insulators and some apparent signal wires remain.
Route 58 will return to Park St and Domain Road when the metro tunnel opens. The Anzac precinct development plan shows new tram stops at the corner of Domain Road and St Kilda road, with a metro entrance on the corner as well.
The freeway construction adjacent to Essendon Airport that replaced some of the old Airport tram line, is not and never was part of Citylink. This is the former Lancefield Road and now part of the Tullamarine Freeway. Citylink stops at Bulla Road.
You are covering only forgotten electric lines. Part 3 could cover cable-tram lines which weren't converted to electric ones. Melbourne's horse trams are the subject of a book in progress, evolving from a PhD thesis. Others have mentioned lines to consider. To them, add Mary St, St Kilda, which gave the future route 12/112 a route into the Esplanade rather than the long-serving dead end at Fitzroy St (IIRC the change was an early 1950s one). When the Sturt St electric line was built, trams came from Glen Huntly Depot, as South Melbourne Depot was yet to be built. The balloon loop around Green Mill is worth mentioning. Assorted corners have been removed. Other interesting remnants:for years the H crossing at Market St / Flinders St used cable-tram rail. The K crossing of the former Russell St line survived outside Royal Hotel (Footscray). When Holden St was opened, trams could get close to the city, terminating in Madeline St (the northern end of Swanston St, later renamed to match). Holden St was used for football trams in its later years, providing a through service to games at Princes Park, particularly Fitzroy vs Carlton matches.
Yes, I reckon part 3 on cable lines would be a good idea! You’re right about mary st - that shut in 1959, and is one of many short decisions built in Melbourne through time. Those old deviations could even provide a part 4 by themselves (if I ever get that far!)
most definitely, I would love to see lots of connections to train stations but also extensions to places without good public transport such as the 75 extension to Knox or the 59 to Melbourne Airport. Maybe I'll make a video at some point.
I'd love to see an airport extension of the R59. It could serve the same purpose as it used to at Essondon: the workers. Census results show that a lot of the airport workers live around Niddrie and Essendon :D
The main reason for closing the Essendon Airport line was to eliminate the road crossing. The road has since had a couple of upgrades to freeway standard, the original upgrade was planned before the tram line was closed. Due to the limited patronage to the airport, the cost of providing a grade separated tram crossing was not warranted. The reason for the Holden St line retaining two useless sidings at each end was because the closure was illegal. The MMTB had plans to close the line, but weren't in any particular hurry to do so. The line was useful for depot transfers and footy specials, but did not warrant any expenditure to keep it operational, therefore the MMTB planned to close the line whenever any renewal work was due. The Fitzroy Council had other ideas - they decided they would remake Holden St and dug the line up without telling anyone. In fact the Freight Car returning from Brunswick Depot was using the line but only got as far as Nicholson St before running out of track! The MMTB did not seek reinstatement of the dug up section, but because the line was closed without legal authority the sidings were retained at each end, which meant that the line legally still existed. The legal status of the line probably changed when the MMTB became The Met. Eventually the sidings were removed/disconnected when the point work became due for renewal.
I’m not sure about your “closure being illegal” thing. As shown and explained in the video, the MMTB applied for closure of the Holden st line to the state government using the proper procedure, and this was approved. It was then a matter of waiting until the next time the track needed to be rebuilt as you say. I assume the sidings at each end were left more so that the MMTB didn’t have to replace the tracks there than anything else.
Just to clarify a bit further, even if Parliament approves the closure of a line there are still procedures to be followed, it has to be properly gazzetted. You can't just have a tram line there one day and suddenly not there the next! But thats what happened, and the simple solution was to leave the sidings intact at each end, ergo no legal closure therefore no breach of procedure.
The odd thing about the Swan St terminus was that it was a terminus, you had to walk down from Flinders Street Station. There was a single track joining this terminus to Swanston St but this was only used for shunting, no passenger services used this track. There are a few other tracks which are for transfers only and not part of any route. One is the connection from Swanston St to Elizabeth St via Victoria St. Another is the curve from Cotham Rd to Glenferrie Rd. The curve from Toorak Rd to Glenferrie rd is not part of any route but you can remain on a number 8 tram as it went to the Malvern Depot.
Hi Daryl, I remember a couple of years ago being on the 58 from West Coburg that had to detour down Elizabeth St then it turned left into Victoria St and right into Swanston St. Not sure where it ended up going as I got off at Bourke St.
The tracks in Victoria Street where the terminus of all tram routes along Swanson Street that started in the south. There where 4 crossovers and one extra crossover after La Trobe Street when a tram was delayed.
@@wasamark6492 Kew Depot fascinated me with it’s single track back exit, it looked like a suburban driveway with a tram track out of it, I haven’t been recently but I think it was going to be made double track.
I've never been to Melbourne, or Indeed Australia, but as a Brit, Melbourne has always fascinated me with it's architecture, trams and history. Someday I will make a trip to Oz, and spend plenty of time in Melbourne. In the meantime, very interesting video - and looks very well researched too.
You can see my house as you walk along brunswick road. A tram from Clifton hill station along rushall/holden/brunswick road and down to High Point would solve a lot of inner north connectivity issues…
In the olden days of Footerscray that spot where the tram line ended was called The Terminous even long after there was any indication that trams hed heen there.
As a boy, I often used the tram line from Elsternwick where I was born, to Point Ormond where donkey rides allowed for a fun ride along the beach! Darren
That’s very cool! I’m far too young to have rode on any of these but the domain rd line… and even that’s a maybe. It’s amazing how some things in history change so quickly leaving nothing at all.
Re the route 58, the old Park st tracks have been reconnected at the Anzac station end and extra turning tracks provided. However, if trams were to use Park St again, it would mean the route 58 trams would not directly service Anzac station.
Kew used to terminate at the Cemetery gates, bang snack in the middle, then that was taken out as a Terminus in the 70s to what is today.The old Cable Drums are still there, but buried.
@@MetroManMelbourne Can't find any video and just a few good quality photos. My father remembers a freight tram using the double curves at Riversdale and Glenferrie at 1100 sharp every weekday to go to & from Malvern Depot.
re the North Fitzroy tram, another remnant you may not have picked up on is the interesting housing in Pilkington Street, which I believe was specifically for tramways staff
I hope that even if Domain Rd/Park St trams don't return that they will leave the existing tram tracks in place as a part of the historic narrative of the area.
There’s also a small line to Windy Hill station in Essendon and one down Buckley St apparently. Little visible remains of the windy hill line, I think the tracks were buried recently
@@MetroManMelbourne you're right about Buckley Street not ever having a tram (despite early real estate speculators spruiking one!) ... but Puckle Street definitely did
I am not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but they have certainly built a link between Domain Road and St Kilda Road for tram service. Whether it get's utilised or not, I am not sure.
Is there still a tram service running through Tooronga? I've been away from Melbourne since 2015 and I remember as a kid in the 70s and 80s there was a tram line going through Tooronga and I remember a tight curve somewhere?
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch episode two here at:
ruclips.net/video/UZz70ATz3BU/видео.html
Here in the UK, we in the 50s and 60s essentially closed ALL our tramways across the country, with one exception, the seaside town of Blackpool. We ended up regretting it, when road traffic in cities got worse and worse, but in the 2000s, we started rebuilding tramways - Sure enough, they've been highly successful, and there are more tramways planned. This is a great video, mainly because Melborne's tram history is super interesting.
Thank you! In australia we did the same - with all major cities except Melbourne removing their trams between 1950 and 1969, but thankfully Melbourne survived with only a few minor closures leaving us with what we have today. The other cities are also reintroducing trams now, Sydney for example opened a new line in 2 stages in 2019-20.
@@MetroManMelbourne I did actually see that Sydney are building one, highly interested to see how it turns out.
@@kieranstravels Here in Manchester (first UK city to abandon all trams, in 1948) we are building many of our new tram routes on old abandoned rail. Sadly there seems to be nothing being done to regenerate past tram routes out of town centre, so for intersuburb transit it's mostly just buses or be brave on a bike
You may like to look at a Documentary called 'Taken for a Ride' produced 1996.
Blackpool definitely top 10 shitholes in the UK 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
As an Australian resident in Sweden, it is great to see films of your home city. This program was interesting to me for two reasons. In the 60s I worked at the airport and took the Essendon tram right to the terminus at the airport. Earlier in the 50s my grandfather has a Milkbar/Fruiterer shop at the terminus of the Barkley Street tram in West Footscray. I did not know where this was but you gave a clue of Russell St, when I checked Google maps, there was a restaurant opposite this corner and looking at the photos there on Google could identify the building where his store was. So thank you MetroManMelbourne and Google for helping me locate his store.
I’m glad I was able to help you with something! I was going to mention that you could tell Russell and Barkly st corner is a tram terminus because of the shops scattered there but I decided to remove it from the final video. It’s definitely one of the major urban development clues the tram used to run there.
Was your grandfather abel to speak French and had a milk bar in the sixties just 20 yards of the corner with Nicholson str. Then I spoke to him but after he started talking French he would not stop. Didn't understand a word but he seemed to be a nice happy fellow. Nice to see these images back.
I thought that te tramlines in Nicholsonstreet were removed because the wooden blocks in the road would make the wrong impression to the Queen if she was visiting Footscray . A proper tarmat was installed and the tramlines had to be removed. 1962 I think it was. The Queen never came but was a good excuse. The wood was used to heat the school high street.@@MetroManMelbourne
No my grandfather did not speak French. His milkbar was at the terminus of the tramline in Barkley Street (adjacent Russell Street)
Sorry got mixed up with Buckly Street. It's been such a long time ago that I lived there. 60 years, but always regrated not going back. I live in the Netherlands now, so not a ride around the corner@@noelhayward4271
Watching this video 1 year after you released it, I'm glad that your prediction that the domain Rd trams may not return was incorrect. Its always sad to see tram lines being removed instead of added, so its great that this line is reopening soon, once new stops have been constructed.
Something really satisfying about being from Melbourne listening to another Melburnian talk about Melbourne on RUclips, thumbs up dude!
Notting Melbournians love more than a good circle jerk lol. Just kidding I love Melbs!
Fantastic video mate! Always interesting seeing the old tram routes and echos of the past, very in-depth and definitely learned a lot about our local history!
Great little video. I recall the Batman line to hawthorn very well as I used to commute daily in 1981 - 1982 getting off at Swanston Street terminus.
I'm a Melbourne boy. I love trams. I found this fascinating. Thank you.
There used to be a short tram line that ran up Napier St Essendon to Windy Hill. I think that it was removed in the 90's or early 2000's
forgotten lines are really interesting since they show the ebb and flow of people's movements. I'm not from melbourne, though half my family is, but man. your trams make me wish we still had them where I live
Why am I literally so addicted to this channel and your videos? I'm literally in my early 20's, but I am so interested in the history of Melbourne metro and your existence to make these videos is everything! Thank you so much!
Thank you very much :) Free free to join the discord if you want to have a chat with me (and about 100 other gunzels), link is in the description.
You may like to look at a documentary called; 'Taken for a Ride' produced in1996.
Victoria railways operated two tram routes. One from St. Kilda station to Brighton beach. The other from Sandringham railway station to Black Rock ( a short time to Beaumaris). Plus the MMTB Point Ormond tram which rang a tram shuttle service from Point Ormond to Elsternwick station closed in 1960. Also I believe Route 77 which rang from the corner of Chapel street and Brighton road and terminated at the Batman Ave terminus.
as I mentioned at the end of the video I intend to make a part 2 on the VR tram lines at some point (and might as well throw in point ormond in there it's so close). The 77 is one of many many old tram routes that although not closed were simply discontinued with other routes running instead.
It’s a pity that Point Ormond team didn’t still exist. Lots of people walk from Elwood to Elsternwick station to get the train. Be handy.
@@xr6lad It would be good if the Point Ormond tram was still operating. That's why they extended the 246 bus from its terminus on the cnr of Glenhuntly Rd and Barkly st to Elsternwick station. The 246 bus route started in 1938.
@@ctwentysevenj6531 I live about 300 meters from Elsternwick station. It would be very handy and one of the few trams direct to a decent relatively uncrowded beach in summer (St Kilda of course is bedlam) and also goes through a decent set of shops and past three schools in Elwood (and the VFA ground). So plenty of potential passengers.
@@xr6lad Elstie local also checking in (and the tram runs past my front door). A tram line down glen huntly following the original path and then turning right towards St Kilda along the beach would be nice. You can still see some of the OG poles near the roundabout in Elwood.
Good job documenting this man... domain road is funny... i go for walks there often and i had no idea it was closed... a few months ago after going for a stroll in Botanical gardens i was walking along the tracks looking for a tram stop and i had to go into 7/11 to ask the guy where is the tram? and he just said there isnt one anymore and i have to walk around the corner to the toorak rd one...
What an interesting video. I used to walk to work from Epsom Rd and Union St to Farnsworth
Ave in the 1950s where Myer had a number of factories and never knew that a tram ran along
the streets which I walked
Fascinating as usual and it reflects Melbourne’s history. Well done
I've always wondered about the disconnection on Brunswick Rd, thanks so much for putting this together, super interesting :)
Awesome video. Definitely subscribing for that part 2.
Great post mate done a fantastic job, I came to Australia in 1972 good to see a pic of the then 2 year old Tullamarine airport where we landed, lived in Prahran during my Childhood days and the trams were used regularly either up High St or Malvern Rd for school at Prahran high and on occasions to the city while should have been at school. Anyway looking forward to the follow up, Cheers.
Great video! There’s also the old Windy Hill tram that was used mainly for the footy fans going to the game at Windy Hill in Essendon
they got rid of that quite recently. We were already in the era of maintaining a lot of heritage stuff, yet this didn't pass muster?
Thanks for you informative video. As a child and a youth I travelled on many of these historic routes.
00:11 Photo is of the no.2 tram from the Box HIll to Doncaster tram. An isolated tram line with no connections to the rest of the tram network. This ran from 1889 - 1896. To date, still the only electric rail service of any kind to run to Doncaster. Doncaster has been asking for a rail service for over 130 years now. No sign of anything happening anytime soon.
Yep, a shame that that closed, would have been useful nowadays. Hopefully SRL will link up Doncaster to box hill by rail again within a couple of decades!
The road from Box Hill to Doncaster is still called Tram Road.
Well done video documenting Melbourne's tram history. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to your next video.
Great video! I never knew that Essendon airport had a tram line! Keen to see part 2!
When Melbourne had an airport rail link 50 years ago, but doesn't today... 😁
@@jonathantan2469 I mean it wasn't the first nor the last backwards step in public transport in Victoria!
@@jonathantan2469 75 years ago!
A lot of memories. Thank you for all your effort in putting this together.
always see that piece of track on Brunswick road and wonder about it. thanks for the info and good work getting all this historic photos!
Thanks for the memories! I was a conductor out at Camberwell in the mid 90's so I did several Batman Avenue runs. I still think about it when walking to the MCG!
I live on the corner of Brunswick Rd and Lygon st and see the old Fitzroy line every day when I leave my house. I've always been very curious about it so I just had to click this video when I saw it in the thumbnail! Good stuff
Over the ditch here in NZ, all the tramways had been shut down by 1964 - the last one being in Wellington. Now these cities are looking to reinstate light rail, but the plans that are proposed fall way short of a useful system regardless of which city you look at.
It is interesting to see that Australia's trams were in part replaced by buses - they did the same thing here by stating that buses were cheaper to run, more flexible in their routes etc.
You may like to look at a documentry made in 1996 called; 'Taken for a Ride'.
There have been no serious proposals to convert the lightly used bus routes that replaced these lightly used trams routes back to tramways.
More viable route proposals will get priority. So not quite the same as the NZ situation.
“Light Rail” could soon be a misnomer … no need for rails or the overhead lines.
Carriages (whether looking like a tram or a bus) can use the normal road surface or reservations and be guided by lines on the road and/or GPS… battery powered, with pantographs at stops to top up the battery.
Meanwhile cities like Canberra are spending $billions to lay tracks, culling trees etc to build the overhead power.
@@TheHsan22 If it doesn't use rails then it's a road vehicle, effectively a bus - regardless of how it is powered. Cities around the world that are investing in transport solutions that use rails wouldn't be doing that if there was a better solution. They would be looking for the most cost-effective system and in every case would have done their homework before embarking on a project that requires billions of dollars of taxpayer funds.
@@stopthebus i expect that they are looking at what is happening in China with their new systems. The cost of the trackless system is substantially less than light rail so the Chinese ones don't have drivers either so I am sure that other prospective users are just just erring on the side of caution at this stage.
Another terrific post. I know the Elsternwick area and found that section particularly interesting. Well done!!
Thanks for a great video on some of Melbourne's forgotten Tram Lines
Your dedication is admirable.
The terminus at Batman Avenue was also for Route 77 to Prahran which turned into Church Street from Swan Street in Richmond and ran down Chapel Street to Brighton Road. On Sundays it ran as a bus route to East Malvern, turning left into Balaclava Road from Chapel Street which could not be done by tram as the tracks turn in the opposite direction into Carlisle Street. There was a scissors crossover with an island platform at the Batman Avenue terminus. The platform was removed and restored to Street level when route 70 trams were first run with Z class trams. The up track continued as a curve into Swanston Street. I recall seeing trams in service during the morning peak using that curve showing University. They were either special runs from Wattle Park which returned via route 72 or adjustments made by the inspector at Camberwell Junction for late running on route 72. That would have required some strange tram movements involving shunting as the curves connecting Riversdale Road and Burke Road were only single track. This all might sound implausible but being a driver at Hanna Street (yes, there were still a number of W2 class trams that did not have South Melbourne Depot on the destination roll), I can vouch for special workings during peak hours. There was a run in the afternoon that left the terminus at Park Street in St Kilda and followed route 12 to Clarendon Street where it turned into Park Street South Melbourne and then travelled to Moreland via Sturt Street and the city. There was also a run that went to West Coburg via Swanston Street and the Haymarket and an afternoon school run which ran to West Coburg and on the return trip ran back to Flemington Road showing 'Abbotsford Street' and ran from there to South Melbourne Beach via the Haymarket and Swanston Street. There was still a 'picture special' that ran out of South Melbourne at 10.10 pm to West Preston on weeknights to service a picture theatre on Gilbert Road which had long since closed even back in the 70's. Sorry to hijack your post but your video brought back memories as the curves with a small section of track attached were still left with powered trolley wire at both ends of the abandoned Holden Street shuttle and were used to park defective trams. So much changed in 1984 when the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board was dissolved by an act of Parliament (or should I say, an act of vandalism). That eventually resulted in the abandonment of 616 Little Collins Street which was almost sacred. Hope you can do a video showing footage of trams negotiating curves and crossovers which have been removed.
Forgot to add that all runs to Melbourne University were in effect special runs as the city terminus was at Franklin Street.
Dear Jeffrey, nice and informative addition to top video, regards.
@@70sVRsignalman Hi Philip. Videos like this one also provide a forum for like minds to come together and share. I spent 38 years of my working life on the trams and saw a lot of changes. Unfortunately the current operators of Melbourne's tramway have engaged in a highly successful campaign to destroy what they saw as a problematic work culture which had long been the hallmark of tramway operations. It was very much a larrikin culture which made it more of a way of life rather than a job. The focus was on providing a first class service and doing it for the love of the job, fabulous Melbourne and its people. Now it is all about compliance. A tram ride with a connie collecting fares was an experience. Many of them were characters. Sadly, Melbourne has now lost its soul.
@@jeffrey3895 Dear Jeffrey, thanks for your comments, yes riding the MMTB trams was a true Aussie experience.
Unfortunately, we now have "professional Managers"whose alleged skill is managing, and managing means following the latest management trends, "compliance"being a case in point. Both the VR and the MMTB took safety seriously, yet knew when to use a quiet word, and when to make a compliance process of it. Nowadays, the first reaction is to write a work instruction, without realising that a work instruction does NOT deal with the issue, but gives the impression of effective safety compliance, which it is not. Most of these professional managers would not know one end of a tram from the other, seem proud of the fact that their technical knowledge is limited, after all, they are "managers". In the end, the culture of compliance actually has the opposite effect, and undermines the staff's confidence in their experience and actions.Regards
Well researched. Enjoyed the Holden street information. I’ve subscribed
Harry
As a boy growing up in Sandringham I remember the Trams departing from Sandringham station travelling along station street turning left up Bay road then turning right along Fernhill road to Royal ave I think it terminated at the end of Royal ave not far from what is now the Sandringham Hospital, thanks for sharing many memories of early Melbourne 🦘👍
@Kerry, The line went all the way to the Clock in Black Rock. It terminated in Bluff Road 50 metres from the Balcombe Road, Beach Road intersection. I travelled on the last tram which was literally stripped by souvenir hunters. Needless to say, it was packed! There was a video of the tram on RUclips, but I can't find it. I think I downloaded it though.
@@lasermodeler
Thanks John you ware very lucky to be on the last trip as boys when we came out of pictures we did put pennies on the tram line while sucking on our Choo Choo bars loved living in Sandringham
Nice video mate. I was on the last tram along Domain St and Park Rd. I also know that the photo of the plane flying over the tram at the airport was taken by Jeff Bounds, who is a prolific tramway photographer.
Thank you! I wasn't so active in my tramspotting back in 2017 and missed out on that opportunity, you're lucky to have done that since it may well be the permanent last tram.
Awesome. Stumbled upon your video. Great video to watch on a Sunday. Thankyou
There's also the Point Ormond line, the former alignment on Wellington St before the reconstruction of St Kilda Junction, the Puckle St line, and the original alignment on Victoria St in Flemington.
I'll definitely cover some of those in a future part - I excluded the Wellington St line in this video as it is such a small line of low importance (similar to the Sturt St realignment in south melbourne) but maybe I'll include it in future.
The Victorian Railways ran a tram line, St.Kilda railway station via Elwood to Brighton station, broad gauge. When they were putting the roundabout in at Elwood they dug up the road at Glenhuntly Road intersection and the tracks, broad and standard crossing each other, were still there just below the road surface. Glenhuntly Road had a standard gauge tram track from Point Ormond to Elsternwick. The railways also ran a tram service from Sandringham station via Black Rock to Beaumaris, standard gauge. There is a Tramway Parade in Beaumaris.
There is a historical photo available showing a tram going down Barkley St, and turning left into Mitford St. It would have continued down Broadway, to Glenhuntly Rd. I wonder, did it iturn right from there, and down to Point Ormond? Considering the name of the line, I suppose so.
@@russellparratt9859
No, it did not turn, it was a VR broad gauge tram line which ran to Brighton station.
The Elsternwick to Point Ormond, running down Glenhuntly Road, was a Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways line and was standard gauge, as all their other tram lines are.
@@blueycarlton I wonder if we are talking about different periods of tram history?
I have a copy of a photo I found online, of a tram that is turning left, from Barkly St. into Mitford St.
Mitford St now has a median strip, which would have been where the tram line went. It would have continued into Broadway, which also has a median strip. Where the tram line went from there, or if it terminated at the southern end of Broadway, is guesswork.
I think I'll try to find this out.
Great video, thanks for all of your hard work 😁👍
Love this stuff…. Great research and great footage👍👍👍
Hi great work. Appreciate the history of our transport system. Just thought you may want to investigate the cable tram line that used to run from Doncaster to Box Hill. Apparently the cable machinery still exists under "Tram Road" Doncaster... thus its name. Hope you can find a gem there. Reg Adrian
Interesting video. I have actually travelled on the Essendon airport tram line back in 1967. My dad and I were here in Melbourne on a holiday from our then home in Sydney. these days, i live in Melbourne and have been here since moving down from Sydney in 1981. I have ridden trams along the old Route 70 to Princes Bridge. The scenery used to be great there looking at the river as we passed.
At the intersection of Bourke St and Spencer St, there was a one metre length of cable tram track still left in the road including the middle track for the grip. This was removed when the right junction was made for the Docklands extenstion.
Certainly unfortunate, there’s also a bit of cable tram track under a median in abbottsford st north Melbourne uncovered in 2007 briefly.
There was cable track everywhere when I was a kid, but no trams. There was a preserved tram at the back of the old Museum. Is it still there? Also, I remember walking past the "Cable Barn" on the North-east corner of Bridge Road and Punt Road in Richmond in the early 70's. A door was open and to my surprise, the cable drums were still inside. Bridge Road like most of the city's main streets was laid on top of tarred wooden blocks the size of a house brick. They were torn up in the late 70's when the tram tracks were set in concrete.
@@lasermodeler The cable tram in it’s glass case is still around, not sure where. I remember the wooden blocks, as far as I know Riversdale Rd was the last to have them. Apparently there were issues when the cable trams cross rail tracks. The VR didn’t like them. I’ll have to reread how a cable tram crossed rail tracks.
I also recall a bit of cable tram track forming the tramway crossing at the intersection of Flinders Street and Market Street. I believe that it would have been renewed when one of the intersecting lines was converted to electric, but the other was at that stage still cable. So when the other line was converted, they didn't replace the still-pretty-new crossing, which therefore retained the cable slots until much more recently.
Somebody told me a tram used to run from Box Hill to Doncaster, terminated near Doncaster Shopping Town, along time before the shopping centre opened...
Batman Ave tram run was so nice. Got to work on it also a few times. Shame it went it was great missing the city congestion
There's another tram line which wasn't mentioned in this video. It's a cable-tram route that ran along Rathdowne Street in Carlton North, and was removed before the 1950s. I found out about this at... of all places, a mundane cafe which I had stopped by for lunch. One of the walls had a large wallpaper-print of an old Melbourne map, which also shows the various tram routes in the inner-north. There was a tramline running along Rathdowne on the map. I looked it up on the internet on my phone, and it was true...
Yep, there are plenty of old cable tram lines in Melbourne. Perhaps some day I’ll make a video looking at all the old cable lines and the car sheds, power houses that remain.
The same can be said for at least 4 other lines (Johnston St / Port Melbourne /West Melbourne & Windsor - Esplanade Lines to various degrees) However back to the Rathdowne St Line , it was rather unsurprisingly named the North Carlton Line , it opened on 9th February 1889 and ran from the intersection of Rathdowne St & Park St. at the Northern end via Rathdowne St., Elgin St., Lygon St, Russell St., Lonsdale St.and terminating in Swanston St. From 1897 , after the opening of the St.Kilda Beach Line / Section , the North Carlton Line was through-routed to terminate at the St.Kilda Beach terminus which was at the corner of Acland St & Barkly St. , St.Kilda (Same Terminus as the Windsor-Esplanade Line). The North Carlton - St.Kilda Beach Line Engine / Power house and Depot / Car Barn still stands at the South West Corner of Park St and Rathdowne St , though given oven mostly as residential premises.
I've always wondered about the disused tram tracks on Brunswick st, so thanks! :)
Across the ditch in New Zealand, there's a decent number of ex-Melbourne trams in preservation. The mention of the old Footscray network reminds me of the little four-wheel 'X1' tram No. 466, which now runs on Auckland's Wynyard Quarter line.
Its sad to me that the Batman avenue section is gone, I have fond memories of getting on the tram and travelling to Richmond in my teen years, there was a paper stand opposite the terminus that I'd buy gum from, back when Melbourne had a true Metropolitan feel, now it's all gentrified, clean, and has lost its old soul.
It was also the only tram route that ran parallel to the Yarra and gave beautiful river views. A sad (& short-sighted) loss.
@@bloggaloggs yeah it was and still is really pretty along that route, just no way to get there by conventional means now.
Agreed. In the 70s I was quite young and Mum and I would go from Burnley into the city via the Swan st/Batman Ave route. Then we'd walk from there to Myer and Coles. Usually we'd get the train back to Burnley.
Hello, I've been to Melbourne many times and walk along this path lots of times (video at 10.53 and 11.02) and never knew this. Thanks!!
Yeah, you would hardly realise it was once not just a road but also a tram line.
The Park St, St Kilda tram didn’t used to travel all the way to the end of Park St. At one point it went up one of the side streets (Mary st) and came out onto Beaconsfield Parade and travel along the median strip there to the Esplanade. Think they rerouted it when they rebuilt that area and connected Beaconsfield parade more directly onto Beach road (50’s? 60’s?). So all up that might have been 1/2km - 1km of track changed.
Yes, it was realigned out of Beaconsfield parade in 1959 to reduce congestion caused by the tram shunting. I will definitely talk about it in a future part :)
@@MetroManMelbourne I had no idea about that!
Excellent video. I love Melbourne trams! Take a cut lunch and hot thermos for a cuppa.
You’ll be happy to know they will be reusing the park street line!
I ride to school on Domain Road and see the empty tracks almost every day :)
Growing up in the 50's In the western suburbs Footscray/ Yarraville
Our Tram's were a great way to travel especially for those who did not drive
Always caught my tram from the corner of Williamstown Rd & Somerville Rd.
To shop in Footscray. They were always on time. ( Great Memories ) Of the past.
There's also the abandoned tracks along part of Harbour Esplanade in Docklands. The road was realigned, but some of the old track has been left in situ.
Yes there is and they are quite interesting. Didn’t include them as they aren’t an old line just an old route before realignment some 20 metres from a current one.
@@MetroManMelbourne I personally hope the Domain Road tram is returned. It is so much nicer travelling along that stretch of road, and I believe more beneficial over all for access.
Forgotten? Who has forgotten any of these? Nor have I forgotten the single track past Wattle park. Or the railway trams from StKilda and Sandringham. I haven't even forgotten that we had a train service to Whittlesea ( and to Healesville and Warburton) where the growth of the population today makes their loss a significant one.
And the train to Koo Wee Rup where estates are springing up and the Mornington train.
The old Sandringham to Beaumaris route is really easy to spot on a map; a bunch of conspicuous curved corners in an otherwise very gridded neighbourhood. Oh, and "Tramway Parade" is a bit of a give away.
@@xr6lad And from Bittern on the Stony Point line to Red Hill. Closed 1953
Don't forget the tram from Brunswick / Moreland via the Zoo used to run right through
to St Kilda beach if I remember rightly along Kingsway up Park St into St Kilda Rd.
I used to catch that tram at Flemington Rd to go to South West Brunswick School in
Daly St
I used to live right on one of these lines and I had no clue!
Hope your future vid includes the Sandringham tram (Station St Royal Ave Bluff Rd etc). There used to be a video on youtube, and the bus stop near Trentham St has (had?) an old route map. This tram was a Victorian Railways tram, in lieu of a railway extension to Beaumaris via Black Rock. The wide sweeping bend where Fernhill Rd turns to Royal Ave, and the Royal/Bluff intersections, are both remnants of the tram line and its turning alignment requirements.
Another to consider is the Esplanade (not The Esplanade!) tram to Brighton Beach.
Yes, as stated at the end of the video, I will make a video on the Vr trams (and some other nearby lines) within a couple months :)
I believe the Toorak Rd route change was always intended to be permanent as it not only allowed for the construction of the new train station but also allows for the tram route to interact with the new tram interchange. If it kept the old route I don't believe it would be possible. Something I find interesting about this change is that at the time that it happened the businesses along Domain Rd were unhappy as they perceived it would lead to a decline of patronage (I'm not aware of any follow up data as to whether this happened or not). However, when there are talks of extending route 67 from it's existing terminus on cnr of Glen Huntly/Koornang Rds up to the Carnegie Shopping strip on Koornang Rd the businesses there are against it as they believe it will negatively effect patronage. Damned if you do damned if you don't ;-)
Dear offbeatwanders, fully agree, and I think the proposal to extend route 67 is quite sound. The Koornang Rd businesses objected to SkyRail as well, yet subsequently business has increased due to better road traffic flow, and easier pedestrian access, and you rarely hear the trains, whose track bed is supported on large dense rubber blocks !
@@70sVRsignalman it's human nature to always be wary of change and focus on the potential negatives rather than the positives. Fingers crossed it happens and would also be a good link up with the future Caulfield to Rowville trackless tram (not a fan of trackless trams tho, wish they'd gone with proper light rail)
i hope they put the toorak line back, its pretty convenient to be taken all the way up to that back corner of the botanical gardens rather then having to walk all the way from stkilda road
Ahh the old green rattlers. Used to catch them to/from school in the early eighties. It was great if you just missed the service. Just take a big flying leap onto the outside running board and hang on for dear life. 👍👍👍👍
Another good video young man. Well done 👍
Very enjoyable and informative video..🤗👍
After this series be cool to see the future proposals like the tram to rowville/monash/chadstone and the extension of 75 to knox or equivalent other projects
That’s a good idea actually, might do that.
The Essendon Airport link survived the construction of the Tullamarine Freeway for some years with track over the bridge accessing the airport having track embedded in the bridge.
Great video. Would love for you to do one about the Sandringham - Beaumaris tramline.
I grew up in Box Hill North, and I often noticed how the road up to the Box Hill shops was called Station St, but was once called Tram Rd. I think there's a plaque to do with it, in a park area just past Woodhouse Grove
Are you aware of the turning loop that once was part of the old 69 route? The 69 going west along Carlisle Street swung right up the Esplanade. At about where the Luna Park 16/96 stop now is, it swung right somewhat north of the present McDonald's car park, turned right into Acland Street heading south, and turned east joining the 69 route going east. There is a picture of Acland Street on the front of the bar in the Ground floor RSL bar in Acland Street, showing this loop. Cars in the photo appear to be 1950s models, so it must have still been there well past WW2. In Glenhuntly Road west of Nepean Highway to Barkly Street, there are remnants of the tram line that once ran to the headland. Steel poles, insulators and some apparent signal wires remain.
You can tell the places that used to have a tram service they still have a decent bus service.
Route 58 will return to Park St and Domain Road when the metro tunnel opens. The Anzac precinct development plan shows new tram stops at the corner of Domain Road and St Kilda road, with a metro entrance on the corner as well.
Very interesting, I'd always wondered about that dead end at the corner of Brunswick & Lygon.
The freeway construction adjacent to Essendon Airport that replaced some of the old Airport tram line, is not and never was part of Citylink. This is the former Lancefield Road and now part of the Tullamarine Freeway. Citylink stops at Bulla Road.
Nice video cant wait for part 2
You are covering only forgotten electric lines. Part 3 could cover cable-tram lines which weren't converted to electric ones. Melbourne's horse trams are the subject of a book in progress, evolving from a PhD thesis.
Others have mentioned lines to consider. To them, add Mary St, St Kilda, which gave the future route 12/112 a route into the Esplanade rather than the long-serving dead end at Fitzroy St (IIRC the change was an early 1950s one). When the Sturt St electric line was built, trams came from Glen Huntly Depot, as South Melbourne Depot was yet to be built.
The balloon loop around Green Mill is worth mentioning. Assorted corners have been removed.
Other interesting remnants:for years the H crossing at Market St / Flinders St used cable-tram rail. The K crossing of the former Russell St line survived outside Royal Hotel (Footscray).
When Holden St was opened, trams could get close to the city, terminating in Madeline St (the northern end of Swanston St, later renamed to match). Holden St was used for football trams in its later years, providing a through service to games at Princes Park, particularly Fitzroy vs Carlton matches.
Yes, I reckon part 3 on cable lines would be a good idea!
You’re right about mary st - that shut in 1959, and is one of many short decisions built in Melbourne through time. Those old deviations could even provide a part 4 by themselves (if I ever get that far!)
@@MetroManMelbourne How to get to the Footy back in the day by train or tram would be an interesting exercise.
What a great video learnt lots of interesting stuff, could you see any possible extensions to the current tram network?
most definitely, I would love to see lots of connections to train stations but also extensions to places without good public transport such as the 75 extension to Knox or the 59 to Melbourne Airport. Maybe I'll make a video at some point.
I'd love to see an airport extension of the R59. It could serve the same purpose as it used to at Essondon: the workers.
Census results show that a lot of the airport workers live around Niddrie and Essendon :D
The main reason for closing the Essendon Airport line was to eliminate the road crossing. The road has since had a couple of upgrades to freeway standard, the original upgrade was planned before the tram line was closed. Due to the limited patronage to the airport, the cost of providing a grade separated tram crossing was not warranted.
The reason for the Holden St line retaining two useless sidings at each end was because the closure was illegal. The MMTB had plans to close the line, but weren't in any particular hurry to do so. The line was useful for depot transfers and footy specials, but did not warrant any expenditure to keep it operational, therefore the MMTB planned to close the line whenever any renewal work was due. The Fitzroy Council had other ideas - they decided they would remake Holden St and dug the line up without telling anyone. In fact the Freight Car returning from Brunswick Depot was using the line but only got as far as Nicholson St before running out of track! The MMTB did not seek reinstatement of the dug up section, but because the line was closed without legal authority the sidings were retained at each end, which meant that the line legally still existed. The legal status of the line probably changed when the MMTB became The Met. Eventually the sidings were removed/disconnected when the point work became due for renewal.
I’m not sure about your “closure being illegal” thing. As shown and explained in the video, the MMTB applied for closure of the Holden st line to the state government using the proper procedure, and this was approved. It was then a matter of waiting until the next time the track needed to be rebuilt as you say. I assume the sidings at each end were left more so that the MMTB didn’t have to replace the tracks there than anything else.
Just to clarify a bit further, even if Parliament approves the closure of a line there are still procedures to be followed, it has to be properly gazzetted. You can't just have a tram line there one day and suddenly not there the next! But thats what happened, and the simple solution was to leave the sidings intact at each end, ergo no legal closure therefore no breach of procedure.
The odd thing about the Swan St terminus was that it was a terminus, you had to walk down from Flinders Street Station. There was a single track joining this terminus to Swanston St but this was only used for shunting, no passenger services used this track.
There are a few other tracks which are for transfers only and not part of any route. One is the connection from Swanston St to Elizabeth St via Victoria St.
Another is the curve from Cotham Rd to Glenferrie Rd. The curve from Toorak Rd to Glenferrie rd is not part of any route but you can remain on a number 8 tram as it went to the Malvern Depot.
Hi Daryl, I remember a couple of years ago being on the 58 from West Coburg that had to detour down Elizabeth St then it turned left into Victoria St and right into Swanston St. Not sure where it ended up going as I got off at Bourke St.
Kew depot used to run a school day service from Scotch College to Kew Junction when I worked there in the 80s & 90s.
The tracks in Victoria Street where the terminus of all tram routes along Swanson Street that started in the south. There where 4 crossovers and one extra crossover after La Trobe Street when a tram was delayed.
@@wasamark6492 Kew Depot fascinated me with it’s single track back exit, it looked like a suburban driveway with a tram track out of it, I haven’t been recently but I think it was going to be made double track.
Very interesting. 🤔 Thank you!
I've never been to Melbourne, or Indeed Australia, but as a Brit, Melbourne has always fascinated me with it's architecture, trams and history.
Someday I will make a trip to Oz, and spend plenty of time in Melbourne. In the meantime, very interesting video - and looks very well researched too.
Better be quick. As this video shows, Melbourne aint what it used to be.
You can see my house as you walk along brunswick road. A tram from Clifton hill station along rushall/holden/brunswick road and down to High Point would solve a lot of inner north connectivity issues…
Dad used to use old route 70 for work as he worked at Batman ave
Would’ve taken you a while to get this all filmed, great work well done mate
Thanks Malcolm, that was very interesting. Have you still got that little yellow car that splits in half?
In the olden days of Footerscray that spot where the tram line ended was called The Terminous even long after there was any indication that trams hed heen there.
As a boy, I often used the tram line from Elsternwick where I was born, to Point Ormond where donkey rides allowed for a fun ride along the beach! Darren
That’s very cool! I’m far too young to have rode on any of these but the domain rd line… and even that’s a maybe. It’s amazing how some things in history change so quickly leaving nothing at all.
Re the route 58, the old Park st tracks have been reconnected at the Anzac station end and extra turning tracks provided. However, if trams were to use Park St again, it would mean the route 58 trams would not directly service Anzac station.
Kew used to terminate at the Cemetery gates, bang snack in the middle, then that was taken out as a Terminus in the 70s to what is today.The old Cable Drums are still there, but buried.
"the tram ran straight into the airport" me on little sleep: "oh, what were the casualties?"
Maybe consider doing a video on the route along Tram Road, Box Hill?
Quite interesting
Also W2 tram so cool
Reject next generation trams, return to W2 class
... and freezing in winter, as well!
Hopefully Part 2 can include the freight trams that used to run out of Hawthorn Depot to various depots across the network.
Those are interesting I’ll see what I can do
@@MetroManMelbourne Can't find any video and just a few good quality photos. My father remembers a freight tram using the double curves at Riversdale and Glenferrie at 1100 sharp every weekday to go to & from Malvern Depot.
Freight Trams? That sounds very Pacific Electric like! Los Angeles famous Street Car network
@@savvastzionis9112 Actually works trams, including M&MTB 'freight' being moved between depots, etc.
@@PJRayment I can't imagine the 'freight train' or 'works tram' was anything like the enormous Pacific Electric trains.
Thank you TramsManMelbourne Very cool
Very informative
Route 82 still runs from between Footscray train station & Moonee Ponds
Did you even watch the video?
re the North Fitzroy tram, another remnant you may not have picked up on is the interesting housing in Pilkington Street, which I believe was specifically for tramways staff
I hope that even if Domain Rd/Park St trams don't return that they will leave the existing tram tracks in place as a part of the historic narrative of the area.
There’s also a small line to Windy Hill station in Essendon and one down Buckley St apparently. Little visible remains of the windy hill line, I think the tracks were buried recently
buckley st no, but the windy hill line did exist, I believe it was removed in 2004 after sitting idle for about a decade.
@@MetroManMelbourne I think it was more than a decade. I think it was disused in the 80s.
@@dangerouslytalented it was used up until essendon stopped playing at windy hill in 1991.
@@MetroManMelbourne you're right about Buckley Street not ever having a tram (despite early real estate speculators spruiking one!) ... but Puckle Street definitely did
I am not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but they have certainly built a link between Domain Road and St Kilda Road for tram service. Whether it get's utilised or not, I am not sure.
9:40 Did Batman Avenue intersect with Robin Street and Catwoman road? LOL😁
Is there still a tram service running through Tooronga? I've been away from Melbourne since 2015 and I remember as a kid in the 70s and 80s there was a tram line going through Tooronga and I remember a tight curve somewhere?
Thank-you!
Great work...thank you. You may be interested in a 1996 documentary called; 'Taken For a Ride'.