Just a heads up, was using a noise canceling headset for this recording and talked louder than intended this vid 😂 Delightful Kissboy jumpscare at 6:40
>Names himself Irish >"I need the luck of the Irish!" >Shortest run in the video The good news: you did get the luck of the Irish. Unfortunately, it happened to be the luck of the Irish between 1845 and 1852 (the generally accepted time range of the Irish Potato Famine).
all he'd have to do to implement it is add a new interactable object in the starting bathroom. maybe like a bottle of everclear if you like your dealer AI like you like your alcohol
If I was the Dev I might give the dealer the number of rounds left in the load, the number of live rounds, and the number of blanks, and let it make decisions based on the ratio of live to blanks during the game, instead of always doing a 50/50. Like if the dealer knows all the blanks have been used he always shoots the player, and if there are an even number of rounds he uses a beer to tip the scales one way or the other. I'd also patch the using beer after magnifying glass bug by either preventing the dealer from doing that, or resetting the “round known” flag when the dealer uses beer.
The dealer using his items to maximize damage per round makes sense because he doesn't GET multiple rounds. he only has to win ONCE. You have to win an infinite amount of times. He only has to get it right ONCE. This would make him more lethal, more unpredictable, and as a result -- HARDER. That said, as you said, overall thinking and looking BEYOND the current round would also make him harder. Definitely something I'd like to see added to either the mod, OR base game.
Yeah, meant to say "loadouts." I.e. there might be an argument to save magnifying glass in a 1 live 3 blank scenario for the next loadout, but yeah, dealer may never get to use it again anyway, so also an argument to just use it if it's beneficial in the current loadout at all
That would be better as like a harder difficulty that people can unlock after beating the game normally cause he'd be to hard for first time player's if he was that hard in the first time playthrough
Actually something else about him shooting himself at 53:10 when it was 1 and 2 is that YOU had a handsaw as well. If he had shot you and it was a blank, you had a guranteed 2 damage to him cause of the saw and mag glass. However him shooting himself would only do 1 and would guarantees he lives to the next round.
26:59 "Im addicted to this" pretty ironic given how a common interpretation of this game is *fighting addiction*, and in some interpretations literally
@@uncannyvalley3190 The game is full of substance abuse and set in a ravehouse-with the club music bumping even as you play with your life, drinking copious amounts of alcohol and going for a smoke when it all gets too hard. Hell, to access the endless mode, you’re taking prescription pills in a dingy bathroom. Buckshot Roulette as a whole is a story of how difficult fighting addiction can be when you’re surrounded on all sides by another hit, just one more pill-and how the resulting struggle can cost you your life. The dealer himself is a distorted face without a body, only possessing hands with which to shoot you, a voice that only urges you on to risk your life for the high. It’s really only an interpretation, like OP said, but it’s a very poignant one. With how over the top and casually BR treats substances and the abuse of them, it’s easy to miss the interpretation that the dealer is a stand in for addiction. Still, the only happy ending in the game results from killing him and walking away-but the player almost *always* goes back, like it’s compulsory.
He actually didn't waste it; later in the vid, it turns out if you saw off the shotgun and aim at yourself and hit a blank, it remains sawed off. So if you know you're going to use the handsaw no matter what you see with magnifying glass, you can saw it off ahead of time
@@delightfulkissboy8926 that must be apart of the mod or dealer exclusive behavior, it doesnt normally work that way It seems like this dealer isnt smart but more unfair
@@ianhandy5090 Vanilla handsaw algorithm for the dealer was pretty much like: if you have handsaw and roll to shoot the player: use handsaw. Could be the modmaker had to make this specific change to fix some unexpected behaviour since the modded dealer wants to shoot you pretty much all the time.
Smart dealer also no longer chugs a booze when he sees a blank with the magnifying glass, which gets rid of that bug that happens with not resetting the flag.
Heya, thanks for the feedback on the mod loader! As for the music issue, it's a bug I'm fixing, i still haven't understood where that issue happens. I'll upload another pre-release when i figure out how to fix that issue
and also can you make it so that turns are always back and forth even after the round. So if the dealer shoots himself with a blank at the end of a round, he gets to go first at the beginning of the next round because it's still his turn
and also can you make it so that turns are always back and forth even after the round. So if the dealer shoots himself with a blank at the end of a round, he gets to go first at the beginning of the next round because it's still his turn
@@progamming8947 multiplayer Is Indeed possible though very time consuming and would be a separate executable as making it work with other mods is basically impossible
@@progamming8947 multiplayer would be decently hard to do and very time consuming but, if some guy is willing to spend days of his life making it, its very possible.
They should make it so that turns are always back and forth even after the round. So if the dealer shoots himself with a blank at the end of a round, he gets to go first at the beginning of the next round because it's still his turn
The Mod creator pointed out that the game was designed around the player always going first. Thing is, the dealer gets multiple rounds, infinate in endless mode, but the player only has to die once to lose the entire game. Thus, the player gets the advantage. Also, the dealer is liable to kill you without giving you a chance to react if he goes first. Player going first means they can manipulate and plan out their turn, potentially changing the dealer's outcome.
@@lowenevvan8619 yeah but you are sentient and the dealer is just following a ruleset without actually thinking, so you have way more advantage than him, i think turns and handcuffs should follow through, but giving more lives so a round cannot end too fast because someone got lucky
@@AdrianOkay This game is simple enough I’m willing to bet a perfect algorithm (or “ruleset”) exists that always results in an optimal strategy for any combination of items, shells and health, which destroys sentience (see chess computers) and would result in a dealer that can never be outplayed, only equally matched. The winner of any load would at that point be determined solely by RNG and the first shot advantage, assuming a perfect player. Which is about as entertaining as rolling dice and deciding who wins based on whose number is bigger.
Hey, that intro about being cautious on the internet just earned you a sub. Everyone calls me paranoid, but its getting to a point where that amount of caution is necessary. Good on you, Kissboy.
54:20 By going for that 1-2 shoot self play, he's actually playing to deny you a turn. If he shoots himself, he takes 1, if you get a turn, he takes a guaranteed 2. This makes a decent amount of sense, and I think you would have done the same thing going by what I've seen you do earlier in the video. However he loses some value because you go first on loads.
It would be interesting to see a mod where you're the dealer and you have to win one out of three rounds against a super smart "player" that goes first
It feels like a lot of the weird plays with the handsaw from the dealer might also be him trying to predict that "on average" there will be a bullet in the center position 50% of the time and it is considered good enough odds to use it by said dealer.
Another thing I noticed about perfect-AI dealer is that they're FAR more predictable than the one built on coin flips. The only time they do something baffling is because you don't know what the perfect strategy is, so in a way, actually teaching you how to play perfect.
I'm kind of curious how difficult a "rigged" dealer would be; i.e. a dealer who always knows what the next shot will be. The dynamics of how you decide your turn changes drastically, since if the dealer ever gets a turn, you're guaranteed to receive damage if there's at least 1 live round in the chamber. Could you even win against a rigged dealer?
Another idea to make it harder to predict is for it to randomly swap between the smart AI and the dumb AI and possibly another type of ai thats thinging of the long game
If the dealer plays optimaly, then, to get a 50% chace of winning, you yourself would have to play optimaly. That is, if the game was fair, but since you always go first, you have quite high odds of winning if you stall his turns long enough.
No just make the game go faster and faster. Magnifiying glass would be worthless because at some point you would simply guess what you saw. Otherwise surplus adrenaline would ruin your decision making and casing counting would be frantic. To make it look better slowing down the game speed when you die would be glorious. As a side effect inital rounds would feel too slow.
This is absolutely lovely, you make good stuff man. I'm always seeking content to watch while I work (Boring job, I'm basically just a human OCR), but due to being neurodivergent to the nines it's always tricky to find something that hits the spot, this works wonderfully though!! Watched the whole thing!
I do like that the improved dealer does not seem to think too much about the next rounds because if he did that then he probably would abuse the fact that he can never die, he just loses one round and goes to the next. But you on the other hand, if you die it's game over.
I reckon the dev thought or even made actually smart dealer. But he appeared to be as he is in this video so it was decided to make him far less lethal just to make it fair and, you know, fun
I think i'd be kinda cool if Mike made it so there was a hard mode. You'd be able to put it on both the main mode and endless mode and on the first set he's the normal Dealer, then on the second set he gets a little smarter. Then he gets more and more smart as the sets go on until you're basically fighting another human. That way the old game is still in tact and people can play it but people that want more challenge still can have it without downloading a mod.
Yooo was excited for this one! After the stream yesterday I bought the game myself for $5 and been having a lot of fun. I learned my brain is too spicy for strategy and thinking 5 steps ahead tho so it's a bit more tough. 😅
Installing game mods on a VM is a bit paranoid, IMO. We gotta have some level of trust in our fellow man and mod makers and society in general I'm willing to take that risk
Good Sir, It was this video that i found your channel. I subscribed and then proceeded to watch the whole video. Hence forth i then watched all your videos. Funny content and you are just awesome!
RUclips keeps mistaking the dealer shooting player animation as a transition in the video and so it puts ads right before the player gets shot and it’s funny every time
Later in the video it's shown that if you point the gun at yourself after sawing off the shotgun and hit a blank, the shotgun stays sawed off. So I'm guessing the AI is deciding it's best to use handsaw even if it sees a blank with the magnifying glass after it clears it, in which case order of use between MG and handsaw doesn't matter.
@@delightfulkissboy8926yeah, this was my suspicion as well, and it makes sense if you run through both options! either there's a live round in the chamber and the dealer will shoot you immediately, or there's a blank so he'll shoot himself first but then shoot the player anyway right after, so there's no reason not to use the hand saw
RUclips’s automated systems have to be losing their shit with how often this game makes people say “I’m going to shoot myself” or “you should shoot yourself.”
why is listening to you explaining the nuances of this horrifying nightmare forced suicide scenario the most relaxing thing ive listened to in a long time thanks for the vid, I'm not a horror game fan at all but this really was very pleasant to listen to
51:34 Pwnd. Anyway, I love this game and I'm glad RUclips recommended me your channel. Subcribed, even if your content isn't BR, your commentary is great.
The odd vs even is really just "does cycling it now take a shot away from me or from them". If the are no other items on the board, then if there is an even number of shells cycling always removes your opponents last shot. I haven't run any numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if the fact that targeting yourself and being wrong that not only takes your health but makes it the dealers turn heavily weights the expected outcome against taking that option unless there is a very high ratio of blanks to live rounds. Also, if you're only considering expected damage to the opponent and not expected total health advantage, that would additionally skew the calculations against targeting yourself.
Feels to me like the engine caches the decision to use the magnifying glass before the animations roll in, so that's why he sawed before the magnifying glass, he used it the frame before the animations played.
on run 5, if you handcuff, then shoot normally, if it misses, the next shot with sawed off has higher chance of hit, which it did, but u died. It wasnt useless to use handcuffs.
While the player has first-turn advantage, and can win immediately, the dealer has persistence advantage where he only needs to bring your health to zero one time to "win." It doesn't matter how many rounds the dealer loses, he keeps playing. In theory, the dealer AI can simply be set up to take whatever path has the highest probability to drop your health to zero, after that whatever path has the most expected damage (probability multiplied by damage). For example, if a decision path gives a 1/5 chance of bring the player's health to zero, while all other paths don't, the dealer should always take that path (in my opinion). This AI still seems to consider relative value and doesn't favor low-chance wins over high chance damage. This seems evident since the dealer opted to use the handsaw in the final round on a 50/50, if he was searching to ensure your health reaches zero then optimal play should have found he can just shoot twice and guarantee a win. This behavior implies he saw 2 damage and decided it was more valuable than winning. Yes, he wins either way, but using the handsaw immediately clearly demonstrates it values 2 damage *now* over winning *later*
I'd like to see this kind of behavior, as it's more like a chess AI who will always take a checkmate with a pawn in 3 moves over a checkmate by taking pieces in 4 moves, and will always take checkmates over building a piece advantage. The dealer should value dropping the player health to zero as a "checkmate" and value those results as infinitely positive, so even a 10% chance of immediately winning beats a 100% chance of dealing damage which won't win. I would be surprised if there were not a few times the dealer had a possible low-chance win, but valued dealing a guaranteed amount of damage which doesn't win. After looking at the code, the dealer seems to do exactly that. It values winning as 10 points, but in theory could choose to not take that chance and just stockpile items for a better chance later. I think optimal dealer play if a win is possible is to take that chance.
There was a bug where dealing 1 damage and not taking damage was evaluated the same as dealing 2 damage (which killed) then taking 1 damage, but that's been fixed now.
@@itr-dev neat, but still is there a case where 10 points ultimately gets beaten by some nonkilling choice? didn't see if probability was factored in, so i assume 100% chance for 1 damage (1 value) beats less than 10% of dealing 2 (
@@almicc the lowest possible chance of a kill would be 4 live in a row, so 4/8*3/7*2/6*1/5, at which point you'd deal 14 damage so the score would be 0.14, but every other path also would help, so 0.12 points from potentially dealing 3 damage, ~0.43 points from potentially dealing 2 damage, and 0.5 points from potentially dealing 1 damage. so even a 100% chance of dealing exactly one damage, would be less
The algorithm being described sounds like monte-carlo. Go through as many choices as possible and count how many wins come from each choice. Very useful for games like chess and poker.
There was another issue I experienced with the 1.0.0 version, haven’t tested it with the 1.1.0 version but playing the normal 3 round game didn’t work at all; defibs didn’t get cut off and when I died (round 3) the game just blackscreened. Not sure if it’s still an issue but I thought I’d at least mention it
Honestly I take back what I said about it being fine if the dealer were to cheat I thought going first would confer a much bigger advantage than it actually does, and the fact that you have to win multiple times in a row makes this game feel ironically a lot more luck based than when the dealer was shooting randomly
You know, this is a lot like XCOM: Enemy Unknown and XCOM 2. You never want to let the enemy shoot *ever*. You might like TapCat and how he describes his process of making turns there. Your analysis of this game is a lot like his.
I just realized that on run 2 waiting to use magnifying glass was actually a throw, since there was no beer on the table and there were 3 live rounds. That's 3 total damage and the round can only end with either you dead or both players moving on with 1 health thanks to the heal the dealer had. He should have prioritized surviving the round and used the magnifying glass because he absolutely had to get 2 damage on the dealer just to survive. It really had little to do with the AI, even if the dealer had no items and only fired at the player that round was still extremely likely to end the run.
I started mapping out best choices without using items (for the normal AI). Up to the 4 bullet mark, it either doesn’t matter who you shoot, or you have a slight edge shooting the dealer. It could be that the smarter dealer uses a similar strategy to process who he shoots, in which case he will (with any number of shots between 1 and 4) always shoot the player. Of course, I could be wrong about that, and you may have looked into the code later in the video, I’m only 1/3 of the way through.
the dealer being so aggressive reminds me of something said in a little pokémon nuzlocke where someone was controlling the computers… simply put, the dealer doesn’t have to win every time. he only has to win once.
I can definitely imagine a slightly stronger AI. Like I imagine stockfish from chess, and instead have it brute force several rounds in advance in buckshot. Also it would take into account all the different variety of items both sides can roll, along with figure out the optimal usage of the items for each round that both sides can make. And just literally brute force it all, just like how stockfish goes through millions of nodes each second to brute force the best moves to make in chess, the dealer AI could do the same in Buckshot. Basically it's goal would be to kill the player character in as few rounds on average as possible. Kind of like how stockfish tries to checkmate it's opponent in as few a moves as possible. This AI probably wouldn't even need an item ranking. I could also imagine that buckshot might be simple enough that the 'solution' to what should be done at any given situation could be found. Kind of like chess endgames. In that case there wouldn't even need to be an AI, the dealer would just need to look up what the optimal play to is in each situation in a tablebase. I'm not entirely sure though how difficult it would be to do either of these though
if an average low-mid end cpu can calculate 20 chess half moves in the future in the midgame thinking for roughly 6 seconds, i'm pretty sure the AI could calculate the entire game while you're still choosing your first move, would be fun, but they probably would need to add more objects and rules because you would have no chance
@@AdrianOkay I assume you're referring to regular mode. I would guess that regular mode could literally be solved rather easily since it's pretty short. Endless mode would be slightly more interesting though, since the game could technically go on forever and there is the carry-over round. But nothing changes in-between the rounds, so it probably wouldn't really change much.
Thank you for the warning about this mod (in addition to ALL downloadable content online) having the potential to be malware. You would be shocked how many people don't understand that just because something is cool doesn't make it immune to being malware.
Ngl, I think the warning is kind of preaching to the choir. Most people don't know what a virtual machine is or how to set it up. The people who the warning is for probably won't understand the warning
@@itr-dev That may be true, but I'd rather people hear the warning and think twice about downloading a random mod rather than there being no warning. Ultimately the warning isn't his job to give, but I appreciate the thought.
I don't know what to think about that warning... Just be sure to download from sources you can trust and keep your anti virus tool updated. Besides, if I get it right the mod loader is open source so you could inspect the Code and see what it does before using it.
Just a heads up, was using a noise canceling headset for this recording and talked louder than intended this vid 😂 Delightful Kissboy jumpscare at 6:40
run your vocal track through an independent compression filter before applying to the master track - will prevent those volume spikes
@@Chiberiaor just record both separately, ideally, both! recording with 3 tracks is great as you can tune everything one by one
Good tips, thanks y'all! Still relatively new to this, so still learning :^)
Based intro vm's are always the best!
there's also the steam game that's harder too
The advanced dealer's first turn and he goes for the biggest "fuck you, this is my house" move and it WORKS is when you know you're probably cooked
Assert dominance through luck, assert ownership of the land through intimidation.
based starlo pfp
>Names himself Irish
>"I need the luck of the Irish!"
>Shortest run in the video
The good news: you did get the luck of the Irish.
Unfortunately, it happened to be the luck of the Irish between 1845 and 1852 (the generally accepted time range of the Irish Potato Famine).
Ah yes, the "bad luck of the Irish," or, as they prefer to be called, the British
I mean... A certain Irish RUclipsr played the main game and lost like five times, so...
the Irish Potato Famine wasnt from a parasite, it was actually from a parasatoid, because the english usually kill the hosts they inhabit.
He didn't specify if he meant the stereotype or historically, so the game defaulted to historically
@@JoetheDilo1917The British committed a genocide on the Irish people by starvation due to them seizing their food reserves. It was all predicated.
Gotta set all the world record's before Mike makes the vanilla dealer like this
I would be really surprised if he changed the vanilla dealer to be harder, I feel like he’s at the perfect level to actually go into endless.
@@pineslinesBut what he should do is implement the harder dealer separately from the vanilla dealer, and let the player choose which one they want
all he'd have to do to implement it is add a new interactable object in the starting bathroom.
maybe like a bottle of everclear if you like your dealer AI like you like your alcohol
If I was the Dev I might give the dealer the number of rounds left in the load, the number of live rounds, and the number of blanks, and let it make decisions based on the ratio of live to blanks during the game, instead of always doing a 50/50. Like if the dealer knows all the blanks have been used he always shoots the player, and if there are an even number of rounds he uses a beer to tip the scales one way or the other.
I'd also patch the using beer after magnifying glass bug by either preventing the dealer from doing that, or resetting the “round known” flag when the dealer uses beer.
@@pineslines Did you see his comment on "How the backshot roulette dealer AI works"?
The dealer using his items to maximize damage per round makes sense because he doesn't GET multiple rounds. he only has to win ONCE. You have to win an infinite amount of times. He only has to get it right ONCE. This would make him more lethal, more unpredictable, and as a result -- HARDER.
That said, as you said, overall thinking and looking BEYOND the current round would also make him harder. Definitely something I'd like to see added to either the mod, OR base game.
Yeah, meant to say "loadouts." I.e. there might be an argument to save magnifying glass in a 1 live 3 blank scenario for the next loadout, but yeah, dealer may never get to use it again anyway, so also an argument to just use it if it's beneficial in the current loadout at all
That's ACTUALLY a GOOD idea. I LIKE it.
@@awrchris6600 I AGREE. Seeing the dealer in his MAXIMUM POTENTIAL would be INTERESTING.
HELL yeah
That would be better as like a harder difficulty that people can unlock after beating the game normally cause he'd be to hard for first time player's if he was that hard in the first time playthrough
Actually something else about him shooting himself at 53:10 when it was 1 and 2 is that YOU had a handsaw as well. If he had shot you and it was a blank, you had a guranteed 2 damage to him cause of the saw and mag glass. However him shooting himself would only do 1 and would guarantees he lives to the next round.
sheesh
That's smart as hell
@@yeiji4315 Whoever programmed this AI watched Kissboy's video before doing it.
26:59 "Im addicted to this" pretty ironic given how a common interpretation of this game is *fighting addiction*, and in some interpretations literally
How does this game relate to fighting addiction? I don't see that at all
@@uncannyvalley3190gambling addiction
@@uncannyvalley3190 gambling, smoking, alcohol, just to name a few
@@uncannyvalley3190 The game is full of substance abuse and set in a ravehouse-with the club music bumping even as you play with your life, drinking copious amounts of alcohol and going for a smoke when it all gets too hard. Hell, to access the endless mode, you’re taking prescription pills in a dingy bathroom. Buckshot Roulette as a whole is a story of how difficult fighting addiction can be when you’re surrounded on all sides by another hit, just one more pill-and how the resulting struggle can cost you your life. The dealer himself is a distorted face without a body, only possessing hands with which to shoot you, a voice that only urges you on to risk your life for the high.
It’s really only an interpretation, like OP said, but it’s a very poignant one. With how over the top and casually BR treats substances and the abuse of them, it’s easy to miss the interpretation that the dealer is a stand in for addiction. Still, the only happy ending in the game results from killing him and walking away-but the player almost *always* goes back, like it’s compulsory.
@@Permatrip I can see gambling addiction, true. I just immediately assumed drug addiction, which is a far stretch.
"One more "
Remaining runtime determined that to be a lie.
I love how the first move in the smarter AI video is that the dealer wastes a magnifying glass.
to me it looks like a bug, perhaps the dealer uses all his moves at the beginning of the turn then the animations are queued, maybe it got a miqueue
uwu
He actually didn't waste it; later in the vid, it turns out if you saw off the shotgun and aim at yourself and hit a blank, it remains sawed off. So if you know you're going to use the handsaw no matter what you see with magnifying glass, you can saw it off ahead of time
@@delightfulkissboy8926 that must be apart of the mod or dealer exclusive behavior, it doesnt normally work that way
It seems like this dealer isnt smart but more unfair
@@ianhandy5090 Vanilla handsaw algorithm for the dealer was pretty much like: if you have handsaw and roll to shoot the player: use handsaw. Could be the modmaker had to make this specific change to fix some unexpected behaviour since the modded dealer wants to shoot you pretty much all the time.
Smart dealer also no longer chugs a booze when he sees a blank with the magnifying glass, which gets rid of that bug that happens with not resetting the flag.
Oh he does. He's done it to me several times, and prioritizes on healing and stealing your healing items.
He cheats when you use the phone, too. >.
Heya, thanks for the feedback on the mod loader! As for the music issue, it's a bug I'm fixing, i still haven't understood where that issue happens. I'll upload another pre-release when i figure out how to fix that issue
bro i don't know how mods n stuff works but i wanna play this game against my friends so badly... by any chance is the multiplayer possible ?
and also can you make it so that turns are always back and forth even after the round. So if the dealer shoots himself with a blank at the end of a round, he gets to go first at the beginning of the next round because it's still his turn
and also can you make it so that turns are always back and forth even after the round. So if the dealer shoots himself with a blank at the end of a round, he gets to go first at the beginning of the next round because it's still his turn
@@progamming8947 multiplayer Is Indeed possible though very time consuming and would be a separate executable as making it work with other mods is basically impossible
@@progamming8947 multiplayer would be decently hard to do and very time consuming but, if some guy is willing to spend days of his life making it, its very possible.
13:00 philosophy of a mortal man
hit quick, hit fast, and hit now. you will not get another chance.
Imma steal this quote for when my friends are unsure about something thanks
“I think historically naming myself Irish has been my best runs”
*Immediatly dies*
Historically, Luck of the Irish fucking sucks
Hearing you say "I'm gonna play one more" for the first time and seeing how much time was left in the video might have been the best joke of the month
Pleasant voice and the commentary of insight or mentions of chance is very soothing in all honesty. Subscriber earned and then some brother
They should make it so that turns are always back and forth even after the round. So if the dealer shoots himself with a blank at the end of a round, he gets to go first at the beginning of the next round because it's still his turn
The Mod creator pointed out that the game was designed around the player always going first.
Thing is, the dealer gets multiple rounds, infinate in endless mode, but the player only has to die once to lose the entire game. Thus, the player gets the advantage.
Also, the dealer is liable to kill you without giving you a chance to react if he goes first. Player going first means they can manipulate and plan out their turn, potentially changing the dealer's outcome.
@@lowenevvan8619 yeah but you are sentient and the dealer is just following a ruleset without actually thinking, so you have way more advantage than him, i think turns and handcuffs should follow through, but giving more lives so a round cannot end too fast because someone got lucky
@@AdrianOkay Still not a good game design perspective. Not even fun actually. Hard sure but not fun.
@@AdrianOkay This game is simple enough I’m willing to bet a perfect algorithm (or “ruleset”) exists that always results in an optimal strategy for any combination of items, shells and health, which destroys sentience (see chess computers) and would result in a dealer that can never be outplayed, only equally matched. The winner of any load would at that point be determined solely by RNG and the first shot advantage, assuming a perfect player.
Which is about as entertaining as rolling dice and deciding who wins based on whose number is bigger.
I really hate how items can sometimes stack up if there's a draw, or carry on into the new round of double-or-nothing, that's unbalanced and hectic...
Hey, that intro about being cautious on the internet just earned you a sub. Everyone calls me paranoid, but its getting to a point where that amount of caution is necessary. Good on you, Kissboy.
54:20 By going for that 1-2 shoot self play, he's actually playing to deny you a turn. If he shoots himself, he takes 1, if you get a turn, he takes a guaranteed 2. This makes a decent amount of sense, and I think you would have done the same thing going by what I've seen you do earlier in the video. However he loses some value because you go first on loads.
It would be interesting to see a mod where you're the dealer and you have to win one out of three rounds against a super smart "player" that goes first
🤣
Finally a worthy opponent!
Our battle will be legendary!
theres something about your voice that i love i cant pinpoint what it is lmao
maybe buckshot roulette asmr is what i needed all along
his voice sounds similar to manlybadasshero's but more enthusiastic
Kronk from Emperors New Groove Type Beat. Very soothing lol.
Unironically buckshot roulette ASMR
i used his vids a lot for bg noise/bg video. his commentary is great to listen to.
Listened to his dealer vs dealer video to sleep a lot 😂 chill stuff
It feels like a lot of the weird plays with the handsaw from the dealer might also be him trying to predict that "on average" there will be a bullet in the center position 50% of the time and it is considered good enough odds to use it by said dealer.
At long last, the dealer will finally know when the shell count is all lives and 0 blanks and not shoot himself!
Another thing I noticed about perfect-AI dealer is that they're FAR more predictable than the one built on coin flips. The only time they do something baffling is because you don't know what the perfect strategy is, so in a way, actually teaching you how to play perfect.
Delightful pissboy playing backshot roulette, perfect content to watch while eating lunch
I'm kind of curious how difficult a "rigged" dealer would be; i.e. a dealer who always knows what the next shot will be. The dynamics of how you decide your turn changes drastically, since if the dealer ever gets a turn, you're guaranteed to receive damage if there's at least 1 live round in the chamber. Could you even win against a rigged dealer?
Another idea to make it harder to predict is for it to randomly swap between the smart AI and the dumb AI and possibly another type of ai thats thinging of the long game
A sub here for your BuckshotRoulette content.
And may stay if you continue topics about good game, programing, mods etc
Your strategies on how to play this are really helpful. I had no problems doing several rounds in endless.
I love how "just one more" led to "we keep sending it" 😭
the amount of buckshot roulette content from you is massive! loved the video
10:12 I think he wasn't certain if the gun was live or not, and wanted to keep the saw for something more assured
If the dealer plays optimaly, then, to get a 50% chace of winning, you yourself would have to play optimaly.
That is, if the game was fair, but since you always go first, you have quite high odds of winning if you stall his turns long enough.
Endless dealer should get a little smarter after every double or nothing.
No just make the game go faster and faster. Magnifiying glass would be worthless because at some point you would simply guess what you saw. Otherwise surplus adrenaline would ruin your decision making and casing counting would be frantic.
To make it look better slowing down the game speed when you die would be glorious.
As a side effect inital rounds would feel too slow.
Damn, I see the difference with the much, much more aggressive Dealer in this instance. I love it. Glad to see they're modding the game already, too!
10:02 It was actually 3 live and 0 blank because of the dealer's beer. At that moment, you had already lost.
Lmao when the dealer shot you, it went straight into an ad for me, then after the ad you were revived
If Buckshot Roulette gains a second wind through modding, it would be a dream come true to see some custom dealers, items, a revolver etc.
This is absolutely lovely, you make good stuff man. I'm always seeking content to watch while I work (Boring job, I'm basically just a human OCR), but due to being neurodivergent to the nines it's always tricky to find something that hits the spot, this works wonderfully though!! Watched the whole thing!
"One more run"
*hour left in the video*
“ I’m gonna do one more”
Sees an hour left in the video
Delightful Kissboy sounds kinda like a mix between Patrick Warburton and ManlyBadassHero.
And a little hint of Dagoth Ur
i thoroughly enjoyed this video - very relaxing and i love the explanation of strategy. underrated
this is the dealer that killed god
bro really let himself go since then
@@TheUndeniablyPowerfulHnow he has infinite health he sure has to jerk off a bit eh?
Manly badass hero’s cousin?
I do like that the improved dealer does not seem to think too much about the next rounds because if he did that then he probably would abuse the fact that he can never die, he just loses one round and goes to the next. But you on the other hand, if you die it's game over.
I reckon the dev thought or even made actually smart dealer.
But he appeared to be as he is in this video so it was decided to make him far less lethal just to make it fair and, you know, fun
I think i'd be kinda cool if Mike made it so there was a hard mode. You'd be able to put it on both the main mode and endless mode and on the first set he's the normal Dealer, then on the second set he gets a little smarter. Then he gets more and more smart as the sets go on until you're basically fighting another human. That way the old game is still in tact and people can play it but people that want more challenge still can have it without downloading a mod.
Yooo was excited for this one! After the stream yesterday I bought the game myself for $5 and been having a lot of fun. I learned my brain is too spicy for strategy and thinking 5 steps ahead tho so it's a bit more tough. 😅
Love your name!
"There's no reason not to smoke" -Delightful Kissboy
Installing game mods on a VM is a bit paranoid, IMO. We gotta have some level of trust in our fellow man and mod makers and society in general I'm willing to take that risk
Good Sir,
It was this video that i found your channel. I subscribed and then proceeded to watch the whole video. Hence forth i then watched all your videos. Funny content and you are just awesome!
I'm a little late to the video, but thank you for warning people about malware etc., I don't personally need the warning but it's very cool of you
RUclips keeps mistaking the dealer shooting player animation as a transition in the video and so it puts ads right before the player gets shot and it’s funny every time
Joe swanson plays buckshot roulette
4:55, great life advice my guy
Dealer ruthlessly using handsaws has promoted scientific questioning for this game
Interesting first play by the "smart" dealer. Let's see how this plays out...
That's what I thought. I don't really see any advantage to use a magnifying glass after a hand saw
Later in the video it's shown that if you point the gun at yourself after sawing off the shotgun and hit a blank, the shotgun stays sawed off. So I'm guessing the AI is deciding it's best to use handsaw even if it sees a blank with the magnifying glass after it clears it, in which case order of use between MG and handsaw doesn't matter.
@JashtheBrash Maybe there is a method to this smart dealer's madness! It's playing pretty well so far.
@@delightfulkissboy8926yeah, this was my suspicion as well, and it makes sense if you run through both options! either there's a live round in the chamber and the dealer will shoot you immediately, or there's a blank so he'll shoot himself first but then shoot the player anyway right after, so there's no reason not to use the hand saw
@@delightfulkissboy8926I saw that. I had no idea that was a thing in the game. The more you know, I suppose. Great video, thank you.
just wanted to say that you have a very delightful channel name
RUclips’s automated systems have to be losing their shit with how often this game makes people say “I’m going to shoot myself” or “you should shoot yourself.”
why is listening to you explaining the nuances of this horrifying nightmare forced suicide scenario the most relaxing thing ive listened to in a long time
thanks for the vid, I'm not a horror game fan at all but this really was very pleasant to listen to
Yo Kissboy I turned Buckshot Roulette into a card game using colored pencils, tape, and paper. I call it buckleg roulette
Hell yeah, card games rule
waiting for someone to mod the ai to use minimax with in 5 turns
this dealer's boss music is definitely that one hard techno remix of Before Every Load
"I'm gonna do one more"
Said the gambler on his 2nd of 5 runs
I've never seen DKB display this much emotion before🥺
I wanna see this game get a multiplayer mode and see you and other people who are good at it play off in a tournament.
The prophecy has been fortold (I mean multiplayer is real now)
You could do Dumb Coin Flip Dealer vs Smart Dealer.
Nice, I gotta check out this ITR and subscribe to them
Eyy, there he is 👌 I agree tho, I'm already subbed and it was best $5k I've ever spent
I wonder where we could find him
51:34 Pwnd. Anyway, I love this game and I'm glad RUclips recommended me your channel. Subcribed, even if your content isn't BR, your commentary is great.
Joe Swanson explains the ai of a random indie vidoegame was not on my 2024 bingo list
the smart dealer was so good his shot started a fucking youtube add.
The odd vs even is really just "does cycling it now take a shot away from me or from them". If the are no other items on the board, then if there is an even number of shells cycling always removes your opponents last shot.
I haven't run any numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if the fact that targeting yourself and being wrong that not only takes your health but makes it the dealers turn heavily weights the expected outcome against taking that option unless there is a very high ratio of blanks to live rounds.
Also, if you're only considering expected damage to the opponent and not expected total health advantage, that would additionally skew the calculations against targeting yourself.
12:37 oh yea dealer knows last shell, forgot
35:45 "Fine, I'll do it myself"
*opens another tab*
Feels to me like the engine caches the decision to use the magnifying glass before the animations roll in, so that's why he sawed before the magnifying glass, he used it the frame before the animations played.
in the game, if the dealer shoots itself with a double damage blank, it keeps the double damage. this doesn't happen for the player.
good job bro you have lots of skill and I use your strategies when I play buckshot roulette thanks!
on run 5, if you handcuff, then shoot normally, if it misses, the next shot with sawed off has higher chance of hit, which it did, but u died. It wasnt useless to use handcuffs.
While the player has first-turn advantage, and can win immediately, the dealer has persistence advantage where he only needs to bring your health to zero one time to "win." It doesn't matter how many rounds the dealer loses, he keeps playing. In theory, the dealer AI can simply be set up to take whatever path has the highest probability to drop your health to zero, after that whatever path has the most expected damage (probability multiplied by damage). For example, if a decision path gives a 1/5 chance of bring the player's health to zero, while all other paths don't, the dealer should always take that path (in my opinion). This AI still seems to consider relative value and doesn't favor low-chance wins over high chance damage. This seems evident since the dealer opted to use the handsaw in the final round on a 50/50, if he was searching to ensure your health reaches zero then optimal play should have found he can just shoot twice and guarantee a win. This behavior implies he saw 2 damage and decided it was more valuable than winning. Yes, he wins either way, but using the handsaw immediately clearly demonstrates it values 2 damage *now* over winning *later*
I'd like to see this kind of behavior, as it's more like a chess AI who will always take a checkmate with a pawn in 3 moves over a checkmate by taking pieces in 4 moves, and will always take checkmates over building a piece advantage. The dealer should value dropping the player health to zero as a "checkmate" and value those results as infinitely positive, so even a 10% chance of immediately winning beats a 100% chance of dealing damage which won't win. I would be surprised if there were not a few times the dealer had a possible low-chance win, but valued dealing a guaranteed amount of damage which doesn't win. After looking at the code, the dealer seems to do exactly that. It values winning as 10 points, but in theory could choose to not take that chance and just stockpile items for a better chance later. I think optimal dealer play if a win is possible is to take that chance.
There was a bug where dealing 1 damage and not taking damage was evaluated the same as dealing 2 damage (which killed) then taking 1 damage, but that's been fixed now.
@@almicc The code you looked at is the fixed code, the version in this video doesn't have the +10 points
@@itr-dev neat, but still is there a case where 10 points ultimately gets beaten by some nonkilling choice? didn't see if probability was factored in, so i assume 100% chance for 1 damage (1 value) beats less than 10% of dealing 2 (
@@almicc the lowest possible chance of a kill would be 4 live in a row, so 4/8*3/7*2/6*1/5, at which point you'd deal 14 damage so the score would be 0.14, but every other path also would help, so 0.12 points from potentially dealing 3 damage, ~0.43 points from potentially dealing 2 damage, and 0.5 points from potentially dealing 1 damage.
so even a 100% chance of dealing exactly one damage, would be less
This is the first video I've seen of you, and I can't stress how fast the head turn was when I heard "Kissboy" as your name
not just kissboy!! *delightful* kissboy
"Let's jump into it" he said a minute and a half in
The algorithm being described sounds like monte-carlo. Go through as many choices as possible and count how many wins come from each choice. Very useful for games like chess and poker.
I was gonna ask you to play this… how funny…
Also I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one experiencing the music bug I thought I broke the game.
i messed up while building the latest release of the mod loader, i still don't know why but it'll be fixed in the next pre-release
Just added it to the known issues in the repo (just so I don't forget)
There was another issue I experienced with the 1.0.0 version, haven’t tested it with the 1.1.0 version but playing the normal 3 round game didn’t work at all; defibs didn’t get cut off and when I died (round 3) the game just blackscreened. Not sure if it’s still an issue but I thought I’d at least mention it
@@Iriswastaken ohh yeah the heaven scene got fucked, no idea why but yeah it corrupted pretty badly though i should have fixed it (maybe)
Honestly I take back what I said about it being fine if the dealer were to cheat
I thought going first would confer a much bigger advantage than it actually does, and the fact that you have to win multiple times in a row makes this game feel ironically a lot more luck based than when the dealer was shooting randomly
My favorite thing about this video is how you keep saying just one more after every loss
You know, this is a lot like XCOM: Enemy Unknown and XCOM 2. You never want to let the enemy shoot *ever*. You might like TapCat and how he describes his process of making turns there. Your analysis of this game is a lot like his.
26:59 "I'm gonna do one more"
Looks at time left in video
Over one hour left
I just realized that on run 2 waiting to use magnifying glass was actually a throw, since there was no beer on the table and there were 3 live rounds. That's 3 total damage and the round can only end with either you dead or both players moving on with 1 health thanks to the heal the dealer had. He should have prioritized surviving the round and used the magnifying glass because he absolutely had to get 2 damage on the dealer just to survive.
It really had little to do with the AI, even if the dealer had no items and only fired at the player that round was still extremely likely to end the run.
Evil empire 😈 Taking it all the way to the bank 🏦
I started mapping out best choices without using items (for the normal AI). Up to the 4 bullet mark, it either doesn’t matter who you shoot, or you have a slight edge shooting the dealer. It could be that the smarter dealer uses a similar strategy to process who he shoots, in which case he will (with any number of shots between 1 and 4) always shoot the player.
Of course, I could be wrong about that, and you may have looked into the code later in the video, I’m only 1/3 of the way through.
the dealer being so aggressive reminds me of something said in a little pokémon nuzlocke where someone was controlling the computers… simply put, the dealer doesn’t have to win every time. he only has to win once.
I can definitely imagine a slightly stronger AI. Like I imagine stockfish from chess, and instead have it brute force several rounds in advance in buckshot. Also it would take into account all the different variety of items both sides can roll, along with figure out the optimal usage of the items for each round that both sides can make. And just literally brute force it all, just like how stockfish goes through millions of nodes each second to brute force the best moves to make in chess, the dealer AI could do the same in Buckshot. Basically it's goal would be to kill the player character in as few rounds on average as possible. Kind of like how stockfish tries to checkmate it's opponent in as few a moves as possible. This AI probably wouldn't even need an item ranking.
I could also imagine that buckshot might be simple enough that the 'solution' to what should be done at any given situation could be found. Kind of like chess endgames. In that case there wouldn't even need to be an AI, the dealer would just need to look up what the optimal play to is in each situation in a tablebase.
I'm not entirely sure though how difficult it would be to do either of these though
if an average low-mid end cpu can calculate 20 chess half moves in the future in the midgame thinking for roughly 6 seconds, i'm pretty sure the AI could calculate the entire game while you're still choosing your first move, would be fun, but they probably would need to add more objects and rules because you would have no chance
@@AdrianOkay I assume you're referring to regular mode. I would guess that regular mode could literally be solved rather easily since it's pretty short.
Endless mode would be slightly more interesting though, since the game could technically go on forever and there is the carry-over round. But nothing changes in-between the rounds, so it probably wouldn't really change much.
@@icycloud6823 maybe also make the turns and objects carry over the games so you have more things to think about
Thank you for the warning about this mod (in addition to ALL downloadable content online) having the potential to be malware. You would be shocked how many people don't understand that just because something is cool doesn't make it immune to being malware.
Ngl, I think the warning is kind of preaching to the choir. Most people don't know what a virtual machine is or how to set it up. The people who the warning is for probably won't understand the warning
@@itr-dev That may be true, but I'd rather people hear the warning and think twice about downloading a random mod rather than there being no warning. Ultimately the warning isn't his job to give, but I appreciate the thought.
I don't know what to think about that warning... Just be sure to download from sources you can trust and keep your anti virus tool updated. Besides, if I get it right the mod loader is open source so you could inspect the Code and see what it does before using it.
At 27:00, kissboy saying one more, one more! And me noticing there's still 1 hour to the video 😂
this video was delightful. you live up to your name, kissboy.
Finally, Stockfish for Buckshot Roulette
They should add a rock, paper, scissors mechanic in the beginning of the round to make it either easier or harder fighting against the Dealer.
As an applied mathematics and statistics major, I did not expect to her a Monte Carlo reference in this video lmao
Since the dealer isn't actually facing death, it would make sense that he plays "dumb" since there's less of an incentive to win.