@@PoesAcoustics I actually did a KEF Reference Meta + KEF R Meta setup earlier this year. And they do in deed match really well. Reason being their dispersion and depth characteristics are extremely similar. The same cannot be achieved using KEF R Meta + KEF Q lineup. For as good as KEF Q lineup is at entry level it simply does not have that field of depth as the more premium offering do. So the transition between the speakers is not as smooth as it is between Reference and R Meta line. It is like going from 3D space to more of a 2D space.
Hi Matt, if you put more details about the video in the description, I think it would help future searchers to find the videos better, and might help RUclips to rank it as well. Sometimes (not this time) your video titles are catchy, but not very descriptive, which makes it hard to find an older video. Just a thought, love your work!
Thanks. My wife is doing this for me and probably I would need to get in and start writing those to really fix that. It’s a time issue. But I appreciate the comment. It’s good advice.
I'm running a 9.4 channel system with front wides a total of 9 identical Infinity Primus P360/P362/P363 towers and it's the best decision I've ever made. Absolutely seamless pans and integration. The dynamics are incredible. It's difficult to explain but the system is producing sound effortlessly at all volumes and it's just more believable
@@Echo-jg8is I'd have to argue against that point. Home theater requires peaks of 105db per channel at the listening position, no bookshelf speaker running off of an AVR is going to achieve that. Also you can cross a tower over at 80Hz and it will play flat down to that point, a bookshelf or even worse a satellite on the other hand might need to crossover at say 120hz and at the point the subs might start drawing attention to themselves. And for people like me who use the same system for home theater and music and I upmix everything to DTS Neo:X 9.1 the sensitivity of the speakers and dynamics are definitely needed. Having identical high performance speakers in all locations gives a full more balanced sound for music and movies. I have the Panasonic DP-UB820 Blu Ray player with a separate HDMI out for just audio and it also has an optical out. I have it configured where any videos will send audio out of the HDMI and my receiver will upmix to DTS Neo:X movie and when I'm streaming audio or playing a CD the player will output uncompressed PCM from the optical only and my receiver will automatically switch to DTS Neo:X music so that the front left and right are playing instead of collapsible the audio to the center channel
@@americanidle1277 I paid 300$ for the brand new pair, and 60$ for the used pair, and they sound great! Much better than the Polk LSI stand mounts I was using before. I think it’s the much wider dispersion giving a better sense of envelopment. It’s tempting to hunt down a third pair and replace my mains for timbre matching, but my modified Jamo Concert 11 towers sound much better in 2 channel mode than the Infinitis, and I don’t have another space in the house to dedicate to them. Plus the missus will murder me in my sleep if I bring any more speakers in the house. She’s a saint for not complaining about me setting up a home theater in the living room, and I’m not about to push my luck.
I would bet you can hear a difference between any 2 different speakers with a pink noise, my big question is, why do people find it hard to have identical speakers everywhere within a dedicated space 🤔 ......
Well…lots of reasons. Cost is a huge factor. Take my room. I have S7i’s for the LCR’s. $8000 each. It would be quite expensive to put 9 of those in. The S4i I used for surrounds are $4000 each. Half the price. But they have identical sound down to 1khz and very close to identical below that. They just don’t have the output. There is no denying that 9x S7i’s would be better. But 90% of the performance can be achieved by use ing what I did. And going to something like S5is may not have been better, given the performance shift in the LCRs.
My guess is that it’s not as good as it could be. That it would be impossible to get identical timbre. But you do get similar or identical compression drivers and the same crossover approach. So it’s likely that they did put in effort to get a good timbre match. But it’s a good question. I’ve had the same thought myself. I am Doing something systems now that could let me check this. There is a demo room going in that has both for LCRs and I’ll be curious to test that. It’s often hard to tell when doing a room because you rely on memory and there are just so many variables. When something sounds off, what is it?
Every time I hear perlisten it sounds unnatural like there is breakup coming from those tiny flanked mids and you get the associated syblent sound from breakup. It may not be break up but it definitely sounds like that. The kef do not have this problem or a none uniform dispersion pattern. If you want to go beryllium then go with ascendo and you get much better dynamic range and more uniform dispersion. Cymbals decay/shimmer is natural and you can go to reference level with less distortion. I think perlisten have done a deal where he has to post a video every now and again to promote. I think Adam peltz uses ascendo. Jtr dispersion isn't the best but I'd rather have them then perlisten or for the price of the perlisten you can get RTJ which is even better then the jtr. If you want something looking good then the paradigm persona, they have a proper 7" largest in the world over engineered amazing beryllium driver and tweeter which allows a 400hz crossover and 3db more dynamic range. Not the tiny cheap textream ones you get on the perlisten. Then you also have the kef blade or reference, Erin has reviewed and is the best measuring speaker he has ever tested.
Perlisten does not operate the tweeters down to 400hz. It’s a beamforming array. They operate only down to around 1.5khz. There is no breakup happening down there. The beryllium is specifically chosen for the central tweeter because its breakup is well above audible. I don’t know what you think you are hearing but it’s not breakup of any kind. Your comparison to Paradigm is really incorrect. The tweeters are the same size but unlike the paradigm with its poor frequency response and directivity, the Perlisten has state of the art measurements. The tweeter is on a waveguide and at its lowest octave there are three overlapping drivers allowing substantially more dynamic range. The lower midrange is handled by an equally state of the art 7” midbass/midrange driver. Based on your comment I don’t believe you understand how these speakers are working and have made some incorrect assumptions.
@PoesAcoustics appreciate the response. I didn't say the perlisten tweeters operate to 400hz. And like I said I'm not sure if it is breakup where you get peeks but it doesn't sound natural to me and as you know for many others in the community. The persona is 1 of 4 brands I mentioned, how about the others with much more dynamic range, cheaper and more uniform dispersion and lower distortion. The ascendo and keff are coaxial and the RTJ is point source to around 400hz. Distortion near reference the perlisten isn't going to keep up with 117db Max. I dont think there is a balance between the upper midrange and treble. I also dont think its an array as the arrangement is never repeated, its just beam forming where they are trying to fix and work around the fact that its not point source/coaxial.
@@MW-ii5nbI for one can say my Perlistens definitely don’t distort. They sound fabulous. Also great at 95db which is plenty loud for me. To each his own I guess.
@@FriendOfaCoolFriend All speaker distort, some more some less. Just to be clear and reiterate I'm not saying the distortion is audible. I'm saying the sound to me is unnatural and unpleasant and somewhat reminds me of what speakers sound like when they start to peek due to distortion. I much prefer Kef, Ascendo, JTR.
Thanks Matt! Your response was quite helpful and detailed, really appreciate it :)
Glad it was helpful!
@@PoesAcoustics I actually did a KEF Reference Meta + KEF R Meta setup earlier this year. And they do in deed match really well. Reason being their dispersion and depth characteristics are extremely similar. The same cannot be achieved using KEF R Meta + KEF Q lineup. For as good as KEF Q lineup is at entry level it simply does not have that field of depth as the more premium offering do. So the transition between the speakers is not as smooth as it is between Reference and R Meta line. It is like going from 3D space to more of a 2D space.
Hi Matt, if you put more details about the video in the description, I think it would help future searchers to find the videos better, and might help RUclips to rank it as well. Sometimes (not this time) your video titles are catchy, but not very descriptive, which makes it hard to find an older video. Just a thought, love your work!
Thanks. My wife is doing this for me and probably I would need to get in and start writing those to really fix that. It’s a time issue. But I appreciate the comment. It’s good advice.
@ gotcha, that makes sense. Even including the text of the question would probably be a big improvement for searchers.
Of course, you can use them as Atmos, but mounting may be an issue!
Totally agree ref R5 Perlisten over S4. Great video Matt 👍
I'm running a 9.4 channel system with front wides a total of 9 identical Infinity Primus P360/P362/P363 towers and it's the best decision I've ever made. Absolutely seamless pans and integration. The dynamics are incredible. It's difficult to explain but the system is producing sound effortlessly at all volumes and it's just more believable
Hey I just swapped my sides and rears for Primus 363s and 362s. The 363s I got brand new in box out of some lady’s garage. Lol
@MechAdv that's a hell of a deal! I have mine crossed over at 80Hz. What do you think of the sound?
@@Echo-jg8is I'd have to argue against that point. Home theater requires peaks of 105db per channel at the listening position, no bookshelf speaker running off of an AVR is going to achieve that. Also you can cross a tower over at 80Hz and it will play flat down to that point, a bookshelf or even worse a satellite on the other hand might need to crossover at say 120hz and at the point the subs might start drawing attention to themselves. And for people like me who use the same system for home theater and music and I upmix everything to DTS Neo:X 9.1 the sensitivity of the speakers and dynamics are definitely needed. Having identical high performance speakers in all locations gives a full more balanced sound for music and movies. I have the Panasonic DP-UB820 Blu Ray player with a separate HDMI out for just audio and it also has an optical out. I have it configured where any videos will send audio out of the HDMI and my receiver will upmix to DTS Neo:X movie and when I'm streaming audio or playing a CD the player will output uncompressed PCM from the optical only and my receiver will automatically switch to DTS Neo:X music so that the front left and right are playing instead of collapsible the audio to the center channel
@@americanidle1277 I paid 300$ for the brand new pair, and 60$ for the used pair, and they sound great! Much better than the Polk LSI stand mounts I was using before. I think it’s the much wider dispersion giving a better sense of envelopment. It’s tempting to hunt down a third pair and replace my mains for timbre matching, but my modified Jamo Concert 11 towers sound much better in 2 channel mode than the Infinitis, and I don’t have another space in the house to dedicate to them. Plus the missus will murder me in my sleep if I bring any more speakers in the house. She’s a saint for not complaining about me setting up a home theater in the living room, and I’m not about to push my luck.
@@Echo-jg8is Higher sensitivity and lower distortion at higher SPL are absolutely beneficial in a HT setup.
colors, sharpness and focal length is vastly improved.
Nice video Matt
I would bet you can hear a difference between any 2 different speakers with a pink noise, my big question is, why do people find it hard to have identical speakers everywhere within a dedicated space 🤔 ......
Well…lots of reasons.
Cost is a huge factor. Take my room. I have S7i’s for the LCR’s. $8000 each. It would be quite expensive to put 9 of those in. The S4i I used for surrounds are $4000 each. Half the price. But they have identical sound down to 1khz and very close to identical below that. They just don’t have the output. There is no denying that 9x S7i’s would be better. But 90% of the performance can be achieved by use ing what I did. And going to something like S5is may not have been better, given the performance shift in the LCRs.
Any thoughts on how the jtr/ascendo horns compare to their coaxials in terms of timbre?
My guess is that it’s not as good as it could be. That it would be impossible to get identical timbre. But you do get similar or identical compression drivers and the same crossover approach. So it’s likely that they did put in effort to get a good timbre match.
But it’s a good question. I’ve had the same thought myself. I am
Doing something systems now that could let me check this. There is a demo room going in that has both for LCRs and I’ll be curious to test that. It’s often hard to tell when doing a room because you rely on memory and there are just so many variables. When something sounds off, what is it?
The colours look hreat in this video! Not sure if its the camera or the lighting.
Thanks. It’s probably the camera. I am
Still undecided but I do feel I need to do something. That camera is a big improvement.
Every time I hear perlisten it sounds unnatural like there is breakup coming from those tiny flanked mids and you get the associated syblent sound from breakup. It may not be break up but it definitely sounds like that. The kef do not have this problem or a none uniform dispersion pattern. If you want to go beryllium then go with ascendo and you get much better dynamic range and more uniform dispersion. Cymbals decay/shimmer is natural and you can go to reference level with less distortion. I think perlisten have done a deal where he has to post a video every now and again to promote. I think Adam peltz uses ascendo. Jtr dispersion isn't the best but I'd rather have them then perlisten or for the price of the perlisten you can get RTJ which is even better then the jtr. If you want something looking good then the paradigm persona, they have a proper 7" largest in the world over engineered amazing beryllium driver and tweeter which allows a 400hz crossover and 3db more dynamic range. Not the tiny cheap textream ones you get on the perlisten. Then you also have the kef blade or reference, Erin has reviewed and is the best measuring speaker he has ever tested.
Perlisten does not operate the tweeters down to 400hz. It’s a beamforming array. They operate only down to around 1.5khz. There is no breakup happening down there. The beryllium is specifically chosen for the central tweeter because its breakup is well above audible.
I don’t know what you think you are hearing but it’s not breakup of any kind.
Your comparison to Paradigm is really incorrect. The tweeters are the same size but unlike the paradigm with its poor frequency response and directivity, the Perlisten has state of the art measurements. The tweeter is on a waveguide and at its lowest octave there are three overlapping drivers allowing substantially more dynamic range. The lower midrange is handled by an equally state of the art 7” midbass/midrange driver. Based on your comment I don’t believe you understand how these speakers are working and have made some incorrect assumptions.
@PoesAcoustics appreciate the response. I didn't say the perlisten tweeters operate to 400hz. And like I said I'm not sure if it is breakup where you get peeks but it doesn't sound natural to me and as you know for many others in the community. The persona is 1 of 4 brands I mentioned, how about the others with much more dynamic range, cheaper and more uniform dispersion and lower distortion. The ascendo and keff are coaxial and the RTJ is point source to around 400hz. Distortion near reference the perlisten isn't going to keep up with 117db Max. I dont think there is a balance between the upper midrange and treble. I also dont think its an array as the arrangement is never repeated, its just beam forming where they are trying to fix and work around the fact that its not point source/coaxial.
@@MW-ii5nbI for one can say my Perlistens definitely don’t distort. They sound fabulous. Also great at 95db which is plenty loud for me. To each his own I guess.
@@FriendOfaCoolFriend All speaker distort, some more some less. Just to be clear and reiterate I'm not saying the distortion is audible. I'm saying the sound to me is unnatural and unpleasant and somewhat reminds me of what speakers sound like when they start to peek due to distortion. I much prefer Kef, Ascendo, JTR.
@@MW-ii5nb Yes.