Great song! These comparisons are really instructive and are especially noticeable on "real" music. I'd love to see these become part of a typical review.
Congratulations. This is best explanation and examples of measured characteristics versus room interaction and balance that I have ever seen and heard. Keep up the great work Erin.
The Original is REALLY good! Jokes aside I love this way of comparing speakers. Going back and fourth between the original recording and how the different speakers performs it. For me it speaks volumes about what sound one can expect. Great work Erin!
I know you generally aren't a fan of doing sound comparisons on RUclips but I still find it extremely valuable to hear the differences between speakers, even if through a terrible medium. I hope you continue to include them in your future videos
Amazing Video. You are the man. This is one of the best (possible the best) speaker videos I have ever seen. I never comment but this is impressive, you speaker tonality approximations are spot on. I recently auditioned the LS50 Meta vs the R3 Meta and literally heard the same differences in your approximation examples. Needless the say, I ended up buying the R3 Meta. in my in home comparison against Genelec 8040s and studio headphones I found them to be ULTRA close to "source" (studio equipment) as your audio demonstrates. during auditioning, compared to the R3, I found the LS50 meta a bit dull tonality wise and less enveloping as you described. That is why I went with the R3. Even in the show room the R3 was very controlled and "duller" than Martin logan, B+Ws, needless to say I found those too bright (similar to your ML example). You data and approximations matched my observations pretty much exactly. I think you should continue making these tonality approximation comparisons. Thanks for making awesome and objective videos, you saved me time. Listen to ERIN, no fluff, objective and accurate.
Great video, Erin. Another reason I've heard for people not rating the LS50 is that they do need sufficient power and some entry-level amps don't match well.
I owned the LS-50 Meta for awhile, but sold them. Excellent speakers, with terrific imaging, but for me they were too small. Just not enough output for a medium to large room. Now I rock the R3 Meta, which I LOVE.....
I’m in the same boat. I now have a much larger room than I did when I bought the LS50 meta. Is the R3 really that much more room filling? I was looking at the super Lintons and some others and hadn’t thought about the R3s
@@Filtersloth I think the R3 Metas do a great job of filling a medium sized room. But if your room is LARGE, then the Super Lintons would make more sense. I wouldn't discount the "regular" Lintons either....both are large enough to fill a big space.
I have them in a large room on top of vintage 1980s tower speakers instead of stands. The old towers (that cost me €200 for a pair in good condition) and new LS50 Metas complement each other perfectly. A nice budget solution.
@ it’s around 10m x 7m x 2.7m high. And has stairways that lead up and down. So it’s not huge, but I think the LS50 meta aren’t really suited to it. But they still sound great when sitting close in the sweet spot. I also have a sub, which helps. Yeah I think I’ll look into the Lintons as well, they are half the price. But apparently the super Lintons work well close to a wall, and these will be like a foot from a wall most likely
Pleased to learn that I am dedicated 😂😂. I did stay to the end…..Well done Erin…..so clearly defined and articulated. Love the graphs. Thanks as always.
What a great video - you really did a nice job of explaining why the LS50 sounds the way it does to some folks and comparing it to similar speakers. Very helpful!
Great video Erin.. 👏As a quite "pragmatic" retired RF engineer that started in audio back in the old analog days, lol, I highly approve. Let's just hope the data naysayers can soften, realizing that the more informed, the better, and that physical reality is never binary. 😉 You are doing a great service here. Kudos to you, kindred spirit.
This is a brilliant video. Being a pragmatist and wanting to see laboratory quality measurements and an explanation of them, this channel fills the bill. It's like golf, there are al ready too many variables so nailing some down helps.
Awesome video! Love this way of comparing speakers with emphasis on the fact that the main benefit is your commentary. I am looking at a pair of LS50 meta or other KEF in the future.
Awesome video Erin It really enlightens me to how Randy thinks I’m one of those crazy people that bought my Ls50 meta without ever hearing them just based upon reviews and research now I have heard them alongside the LS 60s and the blade twos I’ve also heard some of the R line For me I prefer the LS50 and the blades based on the coherency. This is what makes LS 50 so special in its price class. I would like to hear the mofi source point stuff. But unless Kef came out with a 8 inch uni que LS speaker I have no reason to upgrade Unless I win the lottery. I hope to build some css bass modules for them. So I can get that poor man’s blade effect.
Except for the front speakers I have now 6 LS 50 Metas in my surround setup. The imaging is just so good, a huge upgrade to my former speakers. Here in Germany you can get a used pair in mint condition for around 700 Euro. That's exceptional value.
The big knock for me on the LS50M is they are somewhat SPL limited. Love the compare / contrast format. It really brings home how the sound of a speaker correlates with the data. This vid is also very helpful in terms of quantifying my preferences so I know what data to look for when evaluating a potential purchase.
@@VoltLover00 Agreed, def not full range speakers, so these require a sub below ~50hz (I would cross them over at 80hz-100hz). In Erin's original review, these have some compression below 100hz at high peak volumes, and multi-tone distortion is a bit high at peak volumes. These are great in a relatively small room, but may have some SPL challenges in a bigger room depending on desired listening volume. They would make great surrounds in a big room though.
@@fencerrandy I use the LS 50 Meta with the Kef KC62 Sub crossed around 100hz, depending on the room. I would only consider the Metas with the addition of the sub, I was not content with them before I bought the sub, so now its a $3k speaker system. In my opinion and my room the combo is a slam dunk but you have to stay below mid 90 SPL.
This makes *so* much more sense than the audiophile "emotional impact" and "connection" nonsense. I own a pair of B&W and understand how they are bright. But their radiation makes me coming back for more. The whole room comes alive. I do want to tame their highs by learning from videos like these.
Superb video! Thank you Erin. I would also add reasons why the KEF LS50 meta isn't liked by all: - Sensitivity is low. If you do quick comparison, it'll sound worse than others just because the volume will be lower. Remember to level match ! - Impedance is also kind of low. The speaker needs a beefy amplifier to play loud. If some people upgraded their speakers but not their amplifier yet, the LS50 may not sound all that good. - The bass response start to drop earlier than other "typical" bookshelf speakers. If you want a small speakers with lots of punch, this is not it.
I’ve had SourcePoint 8s, R3 metas and the LS50 meta in my small treated room. I thought I wanted the extra dynamics from SP8s and R3, but it wasn’t enough to overcome how the LS50s absolutely disappear in the room. I kept the ls50s. To me that’s their biggest trick and what sets them apart from a lot of other speakers. It’s probably hard to convey that via measurements though. Amazing content as always, Erin!
That LS50 Meta midrange dip looks like the classic "BBC dip". I tend to get the room out of the way as much as possible. Rooms make terrible sound reproducers. Everything coming from the room is a distortion of the input signal - different in amplitude, timing, phase, location. Room treatments, near (or near near)-field. Makes set up much easier when you also aren't having to do with the vagaries of a room contributing to the sonic result. It's why a direct reflecting loudspeaker is just a bad idea from the start. Spraying a random room with acoustic energy, getting back a random mess, no longer listening to the speaker and its input signal, but a room. Among speakers I still have, I have a pair of the OG LS50 and the OG LSX. Both are excellent. Erin, it's content like this that makes your insights the best.
I was surprised. I was listening to this on my phone's speakers and was still able to identify the differences between these speakers. Brightness grabs your attention but it also doesn't let it go. I don't like it, but I'm sure it sells speakers.
fantastic comparison... the problem is folks are already listening with headphones or computer speakers that have the sound super altered!! listening here with a pair of very neutral Neumann KH310 monitors. all differences were pretty obvious and very interesting and revealing! thanks!
@themastroiannis Just as a side note, I first watched and listened to this video on my 8" tablet. Even with that, the relative differences between all of the speakers were obvious, and like others noted, the KEF R3 Meta sounded most similar to the original source. :man_shrugging: (I've owned the original Neumann KH120A since 2013)
What a great way of explaining/ showing the differences between these various speakers (now I know why I like what I like). Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great video, this is the best explanation I have seen. Was an owner of LS50 Meta and looking to upgrade, I was picking between R3 Meta and M126be for about the same price, ultimately picked M126be and very happy about it. Thank you for the great work.👍
I love the LS 50 II with the KC 62 subwoofer. Small, versatile, very powerful. Neutral, fast, nice look. A modern speaker. The only thing I miss is the input for an external storage drive. The streaming app is „ok“, but nothing to write home about. AirPlay is the way to go for me. The app gives you the opportunity to adjust all settings from the listening position.
Excellent video, Erin! Having worked in audio marketing for about a decade I will add one aspect - most of the people out there haven't heard the LS50/LS50M. I bought my LS50 about 10 years ago when it first appeared and I bought it semi-blind, after a single in-store demo. The problem is that the LS50 looks pretty different to most speakers out there. Sure, nowadays it's hardly the strangest speaker out there but at the time the OG Blade and the LS50 were standouts. When I'm talking to companies which I consult, I always tell them - guys, most people will end up considering a blind buy. Can the customer get the right expectations of how your speaker will sound by looking at it? Big woofers communicate big bass, metal drivers will deceive people into hearing a metallic timbre. You know - like silver cables sound bright and copper - earthy. Our brains are hardwired into making associations and you can't really turn it off. On top of just being old fashioned contrarian, people will hate the LS50 because it looks strange. P.S. Is it me or the LS50 liked high quality amplification? I always ended up liking the wireless version more because people didn't have to shell big bucks for an amp to get the LS50 to stretch its legs.
@@VoltLover00 Nowadays I'd probably recommend an nCore or better Class-D for them. Small speakers are notorious for being hard to drive due to their low sensitivity.
Great video. I still prefer the elac reference dbr62 at half the price, over the kef r3 meta with jewelry. Only because I like to pay for audio, not jewelry. The kef looks fine, and sounds good. But I think the elac looks fine also. Just not going to pay for jewelry. I think speakers should be heard, not seen. Like the ones behind the movie screen in the big theaters.... 😊. Thanks for the video. Great job.
This is so simple, but you go to hifi shows and just look at Old men sitting and being amazed by speakers that sounds like shot. Like razor blades for your ears... "Wow, so detailed". 😂 You're a hero Erin. Love this kind of videos. ❤❤
I had the LS50 Meta and hated them. I think there is more to it than lack of brightness, because I often used Dirac to set similar target curves as the Lumina 2 which I loved. The soundstage directivity thing is interesting, worth looking into for me.
Very nice review. And I agree with other viewers, the R3 Meta sounded the most like the original. Overall I was surprised how small the differences were. Perhaps a bit longer clips would be better to hear differences? Any chance we could hear the same clips your new reference speaker (Audio First Fidelia)?
I didn't realise many people didn't like kef ls50. So many audio reviewers have them as their own personal speakers. Up to 90db with a sub I think they are the best speakers ever made, and I have speakers that cost more then a car. I also prefer the none meta versions. They are coaxial and time coherent across their entire bandwidth. Vertical and horizontal dispersion is wide and near identical. They eq well if you choose. Excellent transient response. Phase and imaging is excellent, no problems at the crossover. For me they are near field blade 2's. The kef reference doesn't have the same dispersion and is coaxial to 400hz approx.
Great video as always,fantastic work. I considered most of these but instead got arendal 1961 towers for a close out price of 1k and I got them based on your reviews!
I have a pair new in box waiting to be set up. I'm going to watch the video and either get an extreme buyer regret or feel validated for my choice. Edits as I watch: 4:00 so far so good. I would hate a bright speaker. All my favorite headphones are either neutral or a bit warm. 8:20 honestly couldn't hear a difference. Maybe will watch again later not on my phone. 12:30 squiggly lines are squiggly. 17:40 considering they are going to be 1m from my face, I'm not afraid of how well they will "envelop" me. Conclusion: no regrets. My research WAS (probably) immaculate, and I (probably) made the right choice with these. Especially with how I managed to snag a pair at such a significant discount (999.99$)
I bought it when it came out. I didn't really hate it, but I really didn't like it. Returned it within a week. The experience thaught me a lot about what I want in speakers.
In my computer audio environment, using: CA DACMagic 100 DAC, ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 speakers in near field, Rotel A-12 amp, and a HSU VTF3 MK4 sub, the KEF R3s sounded most like the original
From my listening position on my speaker system, the KEF R3 Meta was almost indistinguishable from the direct feed. All the other speakers had some noticeable coloration in the mids and lower-high frequencies. I think the graphs show just how well that speaker performs.
Thanks for the note on room size vs speaker radiation width! It’s a very important point and will influence my decision on speaker upgrades for my narrow home theater.
This video found its way on my feed. What I find interesting is that playing these sound clips is greatly going to be influenced on what system we are listening on. I was listening on some cheap earbuds and each sample sounded exactly the same to me. This leads me to also think since everyone’s ear sound profile is different I will never hear exactly what others are hearing.
I see all the positive comments about the sound comparisons so it must be me, my phone, my car and my sound system.. But I can't hear any noticeable difference in these sound clips. That side great videos as always.
Thanks Erin, a very useful video comparison. My ears still don’t deceive me 😂. I will keep my DBR62, I’m very happy with how they sound in my environment.
Im surprised, and wasnt aware about the negativety. In my experience the LS50,s always sounded ok/good, in many different situations. That inkludes a sub of course. It is after all only a 5 incher. Im like you Erin. Cant stand to "bright" speakers/headphones/monitors, and Im getting fatigued very fast. Thanks for your time and work Erin,, 🍻😎👍
@@c0mbat15Hard to place a lot of veracity in anything that shillmaster Randy has to say these days. Still entertaining enough, but has lost all credibility AFAIC.
@@c0mbat15 Do (S)CheapAudioMan give any measurements, or is he only bla bla bla, like everybody else, NOT ERIN INCLUDED? It is hard, to impossible for me, to listen to what anybody likes or dislikes knowingly that everybodys ears/brains/taste and rooms sound different. Ei, who the fyck cares about what (S)CAM likes and what hes room sounds like, or if he is happy or not??? Cheers from Sweden,, 🍻😎👍
@@fonkenful I'm a previous LS50 Meta owner and currently a R7 owner so tend to side with Erin on this one. However, Randy was the one who brought my attention to both WiiM and Fosi Audio so Im not having a go at him. I think you need to be open minded in the world of audio but with a healthy dollop of objectivity.
@@c0mbat15 Not saying that Randy’s voice in the chorus of numerous YT reviewers/ influencers singing the praises budget friendly gear to a wider audience isn’t a good thing, just that he’s been rather all over the map, and rather full of himself as his popularity has increased. As for the LS50s, or any commercial speaker for that matter, I’m a retired DIYer who has been engaged in this hobby for over 60years and have built literally dozens of speakers, and numerous tube and SS amps over the past 25years. While I am infrequently in the market for adding / upgrading either of my two main systems these days, I still like gathering information and consensus when asked by friends and family to make recommendations. Erin’s very balanced approach to reconciling his very thorough objective measurements to his subjective evaluations, as well as insights as to how to educate oneself to applying such information to your own use case is very refreshing and useful. edit: Actually did get to hear an earlier pair of LS50 (pre Meta) a few years ago, in a room smaller than either of my own, and with a pretty decent system. Anticipation / expectation bias was certainly at play, as I found them a bit underwhelming. I should note that my current serious listening is via “DIY” enclosures using single “full range” drivers (Alpair 10.3), which are not as neutral on the top end, but definitely more dynamic and with deeper LF extension than the little KEFs. My total build cost for the floor standing MLTLs - including walnut veneer - was under $500.
OMG, Erin--it appears you're one of the few RUclipsrs who knows that the word "data" is plural (i.e. the plural of the singular "datum"). Way to go! Love your reviews, and your general demeanor and sensibilities...and also, now, your proper command of the language. (Hey, folks, it's important! If you're trying to communicate to an audience, it's helpful when you do it well, like Erin.)
True, and it puzzles me that this is quite clear even when listening to the tracks through the bottleneck in the form of an ipad w/o headphones. Of course, this isn’t a real test, I would have expected less of an obvious difference..
@@gioponti6359 I only listened to the tracks on the built-in soundbar of my OLED TV, which is tuned for dialog, so it's kinda bright. I could clearly hear the dip of the LS50 Meta while the others (except for the R3 Meta) sounded more 'excited' than the original source. The R3, however, sounded pretty close to the original.
Good work. I use the LS50 metas in my study, on stands about 35" out from the wall..lots of bookshelves on the walls. This is mainly a near field setup (or midfield when I recline my chair). I'd call it fairly neutral in this arrangement, not bright, but detailed. I do often wonder how the KEF sub would fill out the bottom nicely...maybe a future add. This system works great for what it is intended to be; but it is quite a contrast to my treated listening room where I use Zu DW6 Superflys or the signature addition Buchardt s400 MKIIs I use.
Another amazing teaching video Prof Erin :) When the original first hit the market, I heard it with Belles amplification and upmarket accessories (cables/wires/power cords, etc.) My audio buddy/audio dealer had them breaking in for a long time before the speakers finally broke in...I think it was something like 2 1/2 months of break in. Until the LS50's broke in, I was actually wondering what all the high praise was about. Ya, the LS50 series is amazing with good amplification driving them but in my listening experience they are not a head bangers ball kind of speaker and sound best with Jazz music. I loved the format of this video, can you PLEASE do another one like it featuring/comparing all the KEF bookshelf speakers only? Thank you for all of your expertise that you share with all of us.
What a great video. Objective measurements and what that means to subjective observation...that's how it should be! Not one camp fighting against another. I had the original LS-50 and have to say, I never loved them. I loved certain things about them, but they only ever sounded good to me when I had an enormously powerful (that happened to be expensive) amp behind them, but I need that amp for my main setup. Anything else and they were just lackluster. I don't know how they compare to the Meta version but this all kind of jives with what I heard. I replaced them with a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s that kind of measure worse in some areas but I like them a LOT better. I'm ok with that.
Got mine gently used 50% off retail. Knowing nothing about them I watched your original review and jumped on them. Running in secondary setup with WiiM ultra, Kenwood ka7100, Kenwood kp990… perfect for my needs. Also run a SVS pc2000 sub in the setup. Will spare my earpinions but can say I’m done shopping for bookshelves with this arrangement.
Erin, on spot explanations, thank you. By the way, KEF R3 Meta looks and sounds much like an ideal loudspeaker among all these speakers. Also my preference is towards more linear and controlled loudspeakers like LS50 and R3. Best wishes.
Fantastic video so well done! I myself have no “ hate” for the LS 50. In fact when a non-audiophile couple I knew wanted to get some better lab speakers I found them a good deal on a pair of original LS 50s. They’ve been thrilled with the sound, and I think they sound great in their place. HOWEVER… my one grape with the LS 50 is simply how popular they have become. They become almost like the BOSE of this audiophile era. They are everywhere you look. These days if I go on the audio file sub Reddit and the post begins with “ Here’s my new system..,” I don’t even have to open up that page to almost know I’ll be staring at another pair of damned LS 50s! It’s great that such good sound has been practically commoditized , on the other hand… the ubiquity of these speakers gets a bit monotonous.
Honestly based on the comparison the ls50 looks like it's great value being very similar to the R3 at almost 1/2 the price. This was a great comparison overall ! Very appreciated this sort of comparison really helps put things into perspective, well done.
Amazing work Erin! I’d love to know the geeky details as to how you superimpose the speaker sound onto the original. Maybe a dedicated video? Also, have you explored extending the speaker sound into the lower frequencies? I can understand why this could be troublesome but it would show voicing differences even more clearly. And finally, just a thought, but could your technique potentially be used t o perform very accurately level matched blind comparisons for scoring speaker preference?
I have owned several KEF speakers. Including the LS 50. Even the dealer down talked this model in favor of version 2. I have been in high end a long time, and these speakers are exceptional at around 1000 used or less.
Ppl hear differently and theres many different factors why. I really learned about this ever since I got into IEMs. Tuning/sound profiles vary from person to person. What one person likes the next person might dislike.
Erin, awesome video! I'm also wondering if the envelopment issue with the LS50 for some people could be the lack of a proper amplifier? It appears to be a fairly difficult load to drive to loud volumes.
@@ErinsAudioCorner For sure, but if it doesn't get loud enough, subjectively that could also register as "distant" and not immersive for a given volume setting on the amp. I'm putting on my "reviewer" hat here to try to suss out where that description might come from. Or is that irrelevant?
I have LS50 and Evo150 combo and absolutely love it. I have to admit i prefer a bit brighter presentation. I use tone control on Evo to boost highs and bass and its just amazing. Not sure what frequencies are being adjusted as Cambridge only says “bass” and “treble”. Even had a gentleman from Kef at my home once and when I played them he was in awe how good it sounded. So pretty happy owner of LS50M
The song used in this video is: “A Bitter Love” by Tia Moors. You can find it via Epidemic Sound here:
www.epidemicsound.com/track/UdgrO9Pm1G/
The Technics SB-C700, now discontinued was a direct competitor, measured great and sounded great. Kef ls50 sucks man.
theres another problem with using track comparisons. RUclips doesnt support high res audio as you know. it distorts the audio
instantly shazamed the song while watching your video. I love your work btw! You're awesome my dude!
Great song! These comparisons are really instructive and are especially noticeable on "real" music. I'd love to see these become part of a typical review.
this is one of the few trustworthy audiophile channels. Keep up the good work mate
Congratulations. This is best explanation and examples of measured characteristics versus room interaction and balance that I have ever seen and heard. Keep up the great work Erin.
This is such a good way of presenting speakers so that people can start digesting the data better and relate it to how the speakers sound different.
These comparative sound clips are quickly becoming the new gold standard of reviews (in my mind).
Love them too bits too❤
Agreed. The amount of information (of that one aspect among many, sure) gained in just a few seconds is immense
The Original is REALLY good! Jokes aside I love this way of comparing speakers. Going back and fourth between the original recording and how the different speakers performs it. For me it speaks volumes about what sound one can expect. Great work Erin!
The original is just sooooo transparent! 😂
This was the best comparison video I've seen. Very well done!
Wow, thanks!
I know you generally aren't a fan of doing sound comparisons on RUclips but I still find it extremely valuable to hear the differences between speakers, even if through a terrible medium. I hope you continue to include them in your future videos
Your reviews are continously getting better everyday. You literally take us to the tesing room and understand better whats going. Love this. ❤❤🎉🎉
I appreciate that!
I cant believe how close to the source the R3 Meta sounded! Thats crazy!
you get what you pay for ;)
The KEF R3 Meta is easily the best sounding speaker in this comparison. Great job here, Erin!
I agree. Wow can I ever hear the tweeter on that Logan. Spicy!
@@danab7472 I had to play that again I couldn't believe my ears... spicy heh you're polite
Amazing Video. You are the man. This is one of the best (possible the best) speaker videos I have ever seen. I never comment but this is impressive, you speaker tonality approximations are spot on.
I recently auditioned the LS50 Meta vs the R3 Meta and literally heard the same differences in your approximation examples. Needless the say, I ended up buying the R3 Meta. in my in home comparison against Genelec 8040s and studio headphones I found them to be ULTRA close to "source" (studio equipment) as your audio demonstrates.
during auditioning, compared to the R3, I found the LS50 meta a bit dull tonality wise and less enveloping as you described. That is why I went with the R3. Even in the show room the R3 was very controlled and "duller" than Martin logan, B+Ws, needless to say I found those too bright (similar to your ML example). You data and approximations matched my observations pretty much exactly.
I think you should continue making these tonality approximation comparisons.
Thanks for making awesome and objective videos, you saved me time.
Listen to ERIN, no fluff, objective and accurate.
No one else is doing this.
Thank you for that.
The sound comparison just makes me that much happier with my recent purchase of the Elac DBR62...at $400 for the pair.
Wow that’s a great price!
Where did you find them at that price? Secondhand?
The way you compare and make us understand is incredible 👍👍
Glad to hear that!
what a fantastic review and format! This may be my favorite so far in conveying what speakers do, how they vary in their ability to reproduce music.
What an excellent video, so well demonstrated and explained with factual info. One of the best speaker discussion videos I’ve seen.
Incredible detail and clear explanation, as always. Thank you for all your hard work!
Great video, Erin. Another reason I've heard for people not rating the LS50 is that they do need sufficient power and some entry-level amps don't match well.
I owned the LS-50 Meta for awhile, but sold them. Excellent speakers, with terrific imaging, but for me they were too small. Just not enough output for a medium to large room. Now I rock the R3 Meta, which I LOVE.....
I’m in the same boat. I now have a much larger room than I did when I bought the LS50 meta.
Is the R3 really that much more room filling?
I was looking at the super Lintons and some others and hadn’t thought about the R3s
@@Filtersloth I think the R3 Metas do a great job of filling a medium sized room. But if your room is LARGE, then the Super Lintons would make more sense. I wouldn't discount the "regular" Lintons either....both are large enough to fill a big space.
I have them in a large room on top of vintage 1980s tower speakers instead of stands. The old towers (that cost me €200 for a pair in good condition) and new LS50 Metas complement each other perfectly. A nice budget solution.
@ it’s around 10m x 7m x 2.7m high. And has stairways that lead up and down.
So it’s not huge, but I think the LS50 meta aren’t really suited to it. But they still sound great when sitting close in the sweet spot. I also have a sub, which helps.
Yeah I think I’ll look into the Lintons as well, they are half the price. But apparently the super Lintons work well close to a wall, and these will be like a foot from a wall most likely
Pleased to learn that I am dedicated 😂😂. I did stay to the end…..Well done Erin…..so clearly defined and articulated. Love the graphs. Thanks as always.
Thanks for sticking around!
What a great video - you really did a nice job of explaining why the LS50 sounds the way it does to some folks and comparing it to similar speakers. Very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video Erin.. 👏As a quite "pragmatic" retired RF engineer that started in audio back in the old analog days, lol,
I highly approve. Let's just hope the data naysayers can soften, realizing that the more informed, the better, and that physical reality is never binary. 😉
You are doing a great service here. Kudos to you, kindred spirit.
This is a brilliant video. Being a pragmatist and wanting to see laboratory quality measurements and an explanation of them, this channel fills the bill. It's like golf, there are al ready too many variables so nailing some down helps.
Your videos help understand how sound work and make sense on what to look for, for our space
Great video Erin! Spot on... Great insights into why speakers sound the way they do.
Awesome video! Love this way of comparing speakers with emphasis on the fact that the main benefit is your commentary. I am looking at a pair of LS50 meta or other KEF in the future.
Thanks for all you do. Especially this one. I have wondered why some have such dislike. To each their own but the LS 50 Meta takes hits.
Awesome video Erin It really enlightens me to how Randy thinks I’m one of those crazy people that bought my Ls50 meta without ever hearing them just based upon reviews and research now I have heard them alongside the LS 60s and the blade twos I’ve also heard some of the R line For me I prefer the LS50 and the blades based on the coherency. This is what makes LS 50 so special in its price class. I would like to hear the mofi source point stuff. But unless Kef came out with a 8 inch uni que LS speaker I have no reason to upgrade Unless I win the lottery. I hope to build some css bass modules for them. So I can get that poor man’s blade effect.
Except for the front speakers I have now 6 LS 50 Metas in my surround setup. The imaging is just so good, a huge upgrade to my former speakers. Here in Germany you can get a used pair in mint condition for around 700 Euro. That's exceptional value.
Sounds like a really good setup!
@@ErinsAudioCorner It better should be. I bought all speakers after your reviews! 🙂
@ uh-oh!!!
The big knock for me on the LS50M is they are somewhat SPL limited. Love the compare / contrast format. It really brings home how the sound of a speaker correlates with the data. This vid is also very helpful in terms of quantifying my preferences so I know what data to look for when evaluating a potential purchase.
With a subwoofer? They shouldn't be used for full range
@@VoltLover00 Agreed, def not full range speakers, so these require a sub below ~50hz (I would cross them over at 80hz-100hz). In Erin's original review, these have some compression below 100hz at high peak volumes, and multi-tone distortion is a bit high at peak volumes. These are great in a relatively small room, but may have some SPL challenges in a bigger room depending on desired listening volume. They would make great surrounds in a big room though.
@@fencerrandy I use the LS 50 Meta with the Kef KC62 Sub crossed around 100hz, depending on the room. I would only consider the Metas with the addition of the sub, I was not content with them before I bought the sub, so now its a $3k speaker system. In my opinion and my room the combo is a slam dunk but you have to stay below mid 90 SPL.
It's the most rewarding video on audio gear I watched on RUclips! Thanks so much!!!
This makes *so* much more sense than the audiophile "emotional impact" and "connection" nonsense. I own a pair of B&W and understand how they are bright. But their radiation makes me coming back for more. The whole room comes alive. I do want to tame their highs by learning from videos like these.
This is some of your best work. Thank you for what you're doing for this entire hobby worldwide!
Superb video! Thank you Erin.
I would also add reasons why the KEF LS50 meta isn't liked by all:
- Sensitivity is low. If you do quick comparison, it'll sound worse than others just because the volume will be lower. Remember to level match !
- Impedance is also kind of low. The speaker needs a beefy amplifier to play loud. If some people upgraded their speakers but not their amplifier yet, the LS50 may not sound all that good.
- The bass response start to drop earlier than other "typical" bookshelf speakers. If you want a small speakers with lots of punch, this is not it.
I’ve had SourcePoint 8s, R3 metas and the LS50 meta in my small treated room. I thought I wanted the extra dynamics from SP8s and R3, but it wasn’t enough to overcome how the LS50s absolutely disappear in the room. I kept the ls50s. To me that’s their biggest trick and what sets them apart from a lot of other speakers. It’s probably hard to convey that via measurements though.
Amazing content as always, Erin!
funky room as the data doesn't favor the ls50s... you love dynamics but they have a pronounced midrange dip
That Martin Logan is begging for a 4 ohm resistor on the Tweeter lol
Terrific video! I learned so much in 20 mins!
Great to hear!
That LS50 Meta midrange dip looks like the classic "BBC dip". I tend to get the room out of the way as much as possible. Rooms make terrible sound reproducers. Everything coming from the room is a distortion of the input signal - different in amplitude, timing, phase, location. Room treatments, near (or near near)-field. Makes set up much easier when you also aren't having to do with the vagaries of a room contributing to the sonic result. It's why a direct reflecting loudspeaker is just a bad idea from the start. Spraying a random room with acoustic energy, getting back a random mess, no longer listening to the speaker and its input signal, but a room.
Among speakers I still have, I have a pair of the OG LS50 and the OG LSX. Both are excellent.
Erin, it's content like this that makes your insights the best.
I was surprised. I was listening to this on my phone's speakers and was still able to identify the differences between these speakers. Brightness grabs your attention but it also doesn't let it go. I don't like it, but I'm sure it sells speakers.
I noticed the same thing listening through my iPhone. The ML and Klipsch really stood out due to the high frequency.
fantastic comparison... the problem is folks are already listening with headphones or computer speakers that have the sound super altered!! listening here with a pair of very neutral Neumann KH310 monitors. all differences were pretty obvious and very interesting and revealing! thanks!
@themastroiannis
Just as a side note, I first watched and listened to this video on my 8" tablet.
Even with that, the relative differences between all of the speakers were obvious, and like others noted, the KEF R3 Meta sounded most similar to the original source. :man_shrugging:
(I've owned the original Neumann KH120A since 2013)
Erin has the best audio channel on RUclips, by far.
Great review and technical explanations. Always enjoy your breakdowns.
Much appreciated!
Love this video. Thank you for discussing the techy side of sound and speaker radiation.
The R3 Meta sounded so accurate. Could barely distinguish any differences from the original.
What a great way of explaining/ showing the differences between these various speakers (now I know why I like what I like). Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great video, this is the best explanation I have seen. Was an owner of LS50 Meta and looking to upgrade, I was picking between R3 Meta and M126be for about the same price, ultimately picked M126be and very happy about it. Thank you for the great work.👍
I love the LS 50 II with the KC 62 subwoofer. Small, versatile, very powerful. Neutral, fast, nice look.
A modern speaker.
The only thing I miss is the input for an external storage drive.
The streaming app is „ok“, but nothing to write home about. AirPlay is the way to go for me.
The app gives you the opportunity to adjust all settings from the listening position.
Excellent video, Erin! Having worked in audio marketing for about a decade I will add one aspect - most of the people out there haven't heard the LS50/LS50M. I bought my LS50 about 10 years ago when it first appeared and I bought it semi-blind, after a single in-store demo. The problem is that the LS50 looks pretty different to most speakers out there. Sure, nowadays it's hardly the strangest speaker out there but at the time the OG Blade and the LS50 were standouts. When I'm talking to companies which I consult, I always tell them - guys, most people will end up considering a blind buy. Can the customer get the right expectations of how your speaker will sound by looking at it? Big woofers communicate big bass, metal drivers will deceive people into hearing a metallic timbre. You know - like silver cables sound bright and copper - earthy. Our brains are hardwired into making associations and you can't really turn it off. On top of just being old fashioned contrarian, people will hate the LS50 because it looks strange.
P.S. Is it me or the LS50 liked high quality amplification? I always ended up liking the wireless version more because people didn't have to shell big bucks for an amp to get the LS50 to stretch its legs.
I mean, a Hypex amp isn't terribly expensive, I'm driving mine on a desktop with Topping LA90 with super low distortion
@@VoltLover00 Nowadays I'd probably recommend an nCore or better Class-D for them. Small speakers are notorious for being hard to drive due to their low sensitivity.
Amazing comparison and explanation Erin. Truly very well explained and enlightening. I’m learning so much from your channel
Great video. I still prefer the elac reference dbr62 at half the price, over the kef r3 meta with jewelry. Only because I like to pay for audio, not jewelry. The kef looks fine, and sounds good. But I think the elac looks fine also. Just not going to pay for jewelry. I think speakers should be heard, not seen. Like the ones behind the movie screen in the big theaters.... 😊. Thanks for the video. Great job.
This is so simple, but you go to hifi shows and just look at Old men sitting and being amazed by speakers that sounds like shot. Like razor blades for your ears... "Wow, so detailed". 😂
You're a hero Erin. Love this kind of videos. ❤❤
Been waiting for a video like this for years to compare my LS50m. As much I want to move up to R3m, the looks of the 50m cant beat. Thank you
I had the LS50 Meta and hated them. I think there is more to it than lack of brightness, because I often used Dirac to set similar target curves as the Lumina 2 which I loved.
The soundstage directivity thing is interesting, worth looking into for me.
This is the soundclip video we needed for a long ass time
Almost 100,000 subscribers, keep up the great work.
I'll say it right now - the KEF sounds more " to the source " whereas the Klipsch and Sonos Farber are way boosted in the highs
Very nice review. And I agree with other viewers, the R3 Meta sounded the most like the original. Overall I was surprised how small the differences were. Perhaps a bit longer clips would be better to hear differences? Any chance we could hear the same clips your new reference speaker (Audio First Fidelia)?
Very little difference between original and KEF R3 hearing those sound clip, backed up by data..excellent comparison method thanks!
I didn't realise many people didn't like kef ls50. So many audio reviewers have them as their own personal speakers. Up to 90db with a sub I think they are the best speakers ever made, and I have speakers that cost more then a car. I also prefer the none meta versions. They are coaxial and time coherent across their entire bandwidth. Vertical and horizontal dispersion is wide and near identical. They eq well if you choose. Excellent transient response. Phase and imaging is excellent, no problems at the crossover. For me they are near field blade 2's. The kef reference doesn't have the same dispersion and is coaxial to 400hz approx.
As always, I'm immensely grateful, Erin ❤
Hey, I’m grateful for the grateful!
The best comparison clips in the game, IMHO. Kudos my man!
This is awesome scientific content. I love how you demystified the debate. Keep up the great work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video as always,fantastic work. I considered most of these but instead got arendal 1961 towers for a close out price of 1k and I got them based on your reviews!
I bought some for the same price and have been very happy.
@@CC-xu2yz they are amazing, do you run a center with them? Thinking of getting a 1723s center but very happy with my current set-up.
another great video, really enjoy your way of explaining and analyzing this stuff
Much appreciated!
I have a pair new in box waiting to be set up.
I'm going to watch the video and either get an extreme buyer regret or feel validated for my choice.
Edits as I watch:
4:00 so far so good. I would hate a bright speaker. All my favorite headphones are either neutral or a bit warm.
8:20 honestly couldn't hear a difference. Maybe will watch again later not on my phone.
12:30 squiggly lines are squiggly.
17:40 considering they are going to be 1m from my face, I'm not afraid of how well they will "envelop" me.
Conclusion: no regrets. My research WAS (probably) immaculate, and I (probably) made the right choice with these. Especially with how I managed to snag a pair at such a significant discount (999.99$)
😂😂😂
They’re solid speakers. No regrets.
I bought it when it came out. I didn't really hate it, but I really didn't like it. Returned it within a week. The experience thaught me a lot about what I want in speakers.
In my computer audio environment, using: CA DACMagic 100 DAC, ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 speakers in near field, Rotel A-12 amp, and a HSU VTF3 MK4 sub, the KEF R3s sounded most like the original
From my listening position on my speaker system, the KEF R3 Meta was almost indistinguishable from the direct feed. All the other speakers had some noticeable coloration in the mids and lower-high frequencies. I think the graphs show just how well that speaker performs.
Thanks for the note on room size vs speaker radiation width! It’s a very important point and will influence my decision on speaker upgrades for my narrow home theater.
This video found its way on my feed. What I find interesting is that playing these sound clips is greatly going to be influenced on what system we are listening on. I was listening on some cheap earbuds and each sample sounded exactly the same to me. This leads me to also think since everyone’s ear sound profile is different I will never hear exactly what others are hearing.
I see all the positive comments about the sound comparisons so it must be me, my phone, my car and my sound system.. But I can't hear any noticeable difference in these sound clips. That side great videos as always.
Your awsome! Love my LS50 meta's, along with my KC62, kinda needs the sub "depending on the application".
Thanks Erin, a very useful video comparison. My ears still don’t deceive me 😂.
I will keep my DBR62, I’m very happy with how they sound in my environment.
You can pick up a pair of Klipsch speakers at the drug store while your getting your prescription filled
Thank you Erin for this educational video.
Love this format.
Thank you!
Im surprised, and wasnt aware about the negativety.
In my experience the LS50,s always sounded ok/good, in many different situations.
That inkludes a sub of course. It is after all only a 5 incher.
Im like you Erin. Cant stand to "bright" speakers/headphones/monitors, and Im getting fatigued very fast.
Thanks for your time and work Erin,, 🍻😎👍
Cheapaudioman hates them. There are many others but he is a very popular RUclips reviewer so has plenty of sway.
@@c0mbat15Hard to place a lot of veracity in anything that shillmaster Randy has to say these days. Still entertaining enough, but has lost all credibility AFAIC.
@@c0mbat15 Do (S)CheapAudioMan give any measurements, or is he only bla bla bla, like everybody else, NOT ERIN INCLUDED?
It is hard, to impossible for me, to listen to what anybody likes or dislikes knowingly that everybodys ears/brains/taste and rooms sound different. Ei, who the fyck cares about what (S)CAM likes and what hes room sounds like, or if he is happy or not???
Cheers from Sweden,, 🍻😎👍
@@fonkenful I'm a previous LS50 Meta owner and currently a R7 owner so tend to side with Erin on this one. However, Randy was the one who brought my attention to both WiiM and Fosi Audio so Im not having a go at him. I think you need to be open minded in the world of audio but with a healthy dollop of objectivity.
@@c0mbat15 Not saying that Randy’s voice in the chorus of numerous YT reviewers/ influencers singing the praises budget friendly gear to a wider audience isn’t a good thing, just that he’s been rather all over the map, and rather full of himself as his popularity has increased.
As for the LS50s, or any commercial speaker for that matter, I’m a retired DIYer who has been engaged in this hobby for over 60years and have built literally dozens of speakers, and numerous tube and SS amps over the past 25years. While I am infrequently in the market for adding / upgrading either of my two main systems these days, I still like gathering information and consensus when asked by friends and family to make recommendations.
Erin’s very balanced approach to reconciling his very thorough objective measurements to his subjective evaluations, as well as insights as to how to educate oneself to applying such information to your own use case is very refreshing and useful.
edit: Actually did get to hear an earlier pair of LS50 (pre Meta) a few years ago, in a room smaller than either of my own, and with a pretty decent system. Anticipation / expectation bias was certainly at play, as I found them a bit underwhelming. I should note that my current serious listening is via “DIY” enclosures using single “full range” drivers (Alpair 10.3), which are not as neutral on the top end, but definitely more dynamic and with deeper LF extension than the little KEFs. My total build cost for the floor standing MLTLs - including walnut veneer - was under $500.
OMG, Erin--it appears you're one of the few RUclipsrs who knows that the word "data" is plural (i.e. the plural of the singular "datum"). Way to go! Love your reviews, and your general demeanor and sensibilities...and also, now, your proper command of the language.
(Hey, folks, it's important! If you're trying to communicate to an audience, it's helpful when you do it well, like Erin.)
using them for my desk, really like them, my next step is the genelec 8331
I am ok with my Elac’s DBR6, these measurements confirm my enjoyment, always felt they are neutral and does not feel exhausted.
I had the floorstanding version of that model and loved it. For the money that’s an incredible value in a bookshelf speaker.
Thanks for making education videos like this, really useful information!
KEF R3 Meta sounded the best.
True, and it puzzles me that this is quite clear even when listening to the tracks through the bottleneck in the form of an ipad w/o headphones. Of course, this isn’t a real test, I would have expected less of an obvious difference..
@@gioponti6359 I only listened to the tracks on the built-in soundbar of my OLED TV, which is tuned for dialog, so it's kinda bright. I could clearly hear the dip of the LS50 Meta while the others (except for the R3 Meta) sounded more 'excited' than the original source. The R3, however, sounded pretty close to the original.
Agreed. The R3 Meta is the best speaker out if this line up.
Good work. I use the LS50 metas in my study, on stands about 35" out from the wall..lots of bookshelves on the walls. This is mainly a near field setup (or midfield when I recline my chair). I'd call it fairly neutral in this arrangement, not bright, but detailed. I do often wonder how the KEF sub would fill out the bottom nicely...maybe a future add. This system works great for what it is intended to be; but it is quite a contrast to my treated listening room where I use Zu DW6 Superflys or the signature addition Buchardt s400 MKIIs I use.
Another amazing teaching video Prof Erin :)
When the original first hit the market, I heard it with Belles amplification and upmarket accessories (cables/wires/power cords, etc.) My audio buddy/audio dealer had them breaking in for a long time before the speakers finally broke in...I think it was something like 2 1/2 months of break in. Until the LS50's broke in, I was actually wondering what all the high praise was about. Ya, the LS50 series is amazing with good amplification driving them but in my listening experience they are not a head bangers ball kind of speaker and sound best with Jazz music.
I loved the format of this video, can you PLEASE do another one like it featuring/comparing all the KEF bookshelf speakers only? Thank you for all of your expertise that you share with all of us.
What a great video. Objective measurements and what that means to subjective observation...that's how it should be! Not one camp fighting against another. I had the original LS-50 and have to say, I never loved them. I loved certain things about them, but they only ever sounded good to me when I had an enormously powerful (that happened to be expensive) amp behind them, but I need that amp for my main setup. Anything else and they were just lackluster. I don't know how they compare to the Meta version but this all kind of jives with what I heard. I replaced them with a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s that kind of measure worse in some areas but I like them a LOT better. I'm ok with that.
Got mine gently used 50% off retail. Knowing nothing about them I watched your original review and jumped on them. Running in secondary setup with WiiM ultra, Kenwood ka7100, Kenwood kp990… perfect for my needs. Also run a SVS pc2000 sub in the setup. Will spare my earpinions but can say I’m done shopping for bookshelves with this arrangement.
Erin, on spot explanations, thank you. By the way, KEF R3 Meta looks and sounds much like an ideal loudspeaker among all these speakers. Also my preference is towards more linear and controlled loudspeakers like LS50 and R3. Best wishes.
Fantastic video so well done! I myself have no “ hate” for the LS 50. In fact when a non-audiophile couple I knew wanted to get some better lab speakers I found them a good deal on a pair of original LS 50s. They’ve been thrilled with the sound, and I think they sound great in their place.
HOWEVER… my one grape with the LS 50 is simply how popular they have become. They become almost like the BOSE of this audiophile era. They are everywhere you look. These days if I go on the audio file sub Reddit and the post begins with “ Here’s my new system..,” I don’t even have to open up that page to almost know I’ll be staring at another pair of damned LS 50s!
It’s great that such good sound has been practically commoditized , on the other hand… the ubiquity of these speakers gets a bit monotonous.
Honestly based on the comparison the ls50 looks like it's great value being very similar to the R3 at almost 1/2 the price. This was a great comparison overall !
Very appreciated this sort of comparison really helps put things into perspective, well done.
Amazing work Erin!
I’d love to know the geeky details as to how you superimpose the speaker sound onto the original. Maybe a dedicated video?
Also, have you explored extending the speaker sound into the lower frequencies? I can understand why this could be troublesome but it would show voicing differences even more clearly.
And finally, just a thought, but could your technique potentially be used t o perform very accurately level matched blind comparisons for scoring speaker preference?
Erin i really hope that you end up testing some ATC SCM11 or SCM19
Great easy to understand explanation and graphs. Thanks for sharing.
I have owned several KEF speakers. Including the LS 50. Even the dealer down talked this model in favor of version 2. I have been in high end a long time, and these speakers are exceptional at around 1000 used or less.
Interesting! You have confirmed my decision on purchasing the Kef LS50s Meta.
Ppl hear differently and theres many different factors why. I really learned about this ever since I got into IEMs. Tuning/sound profiles vary from person to person. What one person likes the next person might dislike.
Thanks for a great speaker comparison. Valuable information, you’re the best!
Erin, awesome video! I'm also wondering if the envelopment issue with the LS50 for some people could be the lack of a proper amplifier? It appears to be a fairly difficult load to drive to loud volumes.
I doubt it. A speaker’s radiation wouldn’t change based on the amplifier.
@@ErinsAudioCorner For sure, but if it doesn't get loud enough, subjectively that could also register as "distant" and not immersive for a given volume setting on the amp. I'm putting on my "reviewer" hat here to try to suss out where that description might come from. Or is that irrelevant?
I have LS50 and Evo150 combo and absolutely love it. I have to admit i prefer a bit brighter presentation. I use tone control on Evo to boost highs and bass and its just amazing. Not sure what frequencies are being adjusted as Cambridge only says “bass” and “treble”. Even had a gentleman from Kef at my home once and when I played them he was in awe how good it sounded. So pretty happy owner of LS50M
Best video so far. If you can continue the subwoofer reviews (comparative) it will be great. Thanks for your work!