I hated this movie, in case that's not clear. I haven't hated a movie this much since Halloween Ends or Brighburn. If you enjoy the video, we have memberships and a Patreon, and we also have our website cosmobunny.shop ! We've been playing through games over on our let's play channel too here - www.youtube.com/@realdegenerateplays and you can use our Fortnite Code DJAY123 ! Much love. Save yourself and don't watch this movie please.
@@Gametester110-qf8vs Completely agree. It just sucks that I have to have the feeling in my head of knowing "where it goes." I'm going to assume this was just made to cash in and send a message with the blank check from Joker 1 and view 1 as standalone. It's way better that way, and it's open-ended and multi-layered. This film simplified 1 so much it's unreal.
@SteveKilgore27 this wasn't liberalism or conservatism, it was corporatism. It's how Jaws was amazing, but every subsequent Jaws onwards is just corporatized husks of what came before.
@@grantdaily9662 TBF this movie is very political and both are about class struggle and politics. Its not something that should be dragged into every single convo but it does kinda fit here.
Honestly Speaking, the SA being part of his Childhood Trauma was so unnecessary. In the first film, nowhere was it indicated that his mum was molesting him, or did so in the past. It came off as just unhealthy parenting, where his mother still saw him as her little boy. She was manipulative and condescending at times, sure. I really do feel that the "SA" line in the courtroom was the reason why the guards later were implied to have done the same thing to him later on. As if the makers of the film were like "Well, we have said the word anyway, so might as well imply it too". All of the Prison Guards were shown to be stereotypically Straight Men with superiority complex. Straight people don't go out SAing People just to get even or teach them a lesson. I hate it when SA is used as a crutch to portray Trauma. People have Traumatic past even if SA didn't happen. I lost quite a lot of Respect for Todd Philips after this film.
It did mention the sexual abuse in the first movie. People hate this movie because it is a clearly written tragedy and yes a critique on our society in general an that nobody gives a fuck about disturbed and abused people unless they fulfill some sick fantasy for our entertainment.
@@hdawn5952 It is reiterated definitively in the scene mmediately preceding the assault. I agree it's a clearly written tragedy, but it's not a well-crafted one and it does exactly what it accuses the audience of doing. This is why people don't like it. People were outraged by how it ended *because* they had grown to have empathy for Arthur, which the movie didn't.
@@kostantza1People were self inserting with the joker. Its why they make Buck Breaking jokes about Arthur. Because without the clown make up no one gives a shit about the mentally ill loner. Still a bad movie though
Todd Phillips created a sympathetic character, and then, in the second film, basically told us we're bad people for sympathizing with the sympathetic character. The first film establishes that he was SA'd and abused as a child and has mental health issues. But I guess we're not supposed to sympathize with that. Then the second movie, Todd Phillips' message, is basically fall in line and do what you're told.
Nobody thought that Joker was a split personality coming out of the first film, so why the second movie presents a a revelation that indeed there is no split personality it's just Arthur is puzzling.
I was so disappointed over how they made this possible split personality a central plot point, put HARVEY FUCKING DENT as prosecutor and never NEVER in a single momment used harvey's relationship/history of split personality as tool in the narrative. Such a wasted potential
I agree Terminator could have ended at T2 but I actually didn't mind Dark Fate which I know is a divisive film but John Connor was never my favorite character in T2 so I wasn't super upset that he died.
I always hated the idea that Arthur would just inspire the real Joker, hate that it's been confirmed. Batman's greatest nemesis being relegated to just a copycat of some other guy makes him way less special
He's not a copycat of Arthur Fleck. The movie looks at Joker as a persona and idea bigger than any one person or origin story. Like Alan Moore's Killing Joke said, The Joker likes multiple choice... So acting like he could only be one guy or interpreted in one way when he has many origins, Elseworlds, personas, identities, etc. is false.
The sequel should have shown Arthur's decent into complete madness and fully embracing the Joker persona as his own idenity. The musical scenes should have played a vital part of how Joker saw the world around him from a warped perspective, it should have shown him as a crazy person who saw the world for what it truly was and how everything was nothing more than a joke. The movie should have shown been about Joker, not Arthur.
You know what is stupid about this? That this was the movie to make people stop sympathizing with the Joker. The first movie is the creation of a sympathetic monster beaten down by society. The second movie should have been the monster coming in and beating society. Bringing into focus why we have the social contract and why the abandoned principles of hope, love and community is not the path to fix anything. That Insanity and chaos has no future and self perpetuates pain forever. A better movie should have been made and a better director would have known that.
They should have had him gain weight and healthy and become a full joker in the end. What a waste of time and money for hard-working people. I'm not giving Hollywood another dime of my money.
If....and I say, if....they wanted to tackle sexual assault as a narrative point, all they had to do was put an offhand mention earlier in the movie that the guards use sexual violence. To see them go from 0 to 100, it was pretty clear it was only there to shock and disturb. I also thought putting that scene just after it was revealed in the trial that he was abused as a child similarly was in profoundly bad taste and....quite mean-spirited really, because I can imagine of no other reason it was put in like that. The sad thing is, they tried to say that the movie was about how everyone wanted to see the Joker and not Arthur, but in the end we didn't know Arthur any better than at the end of the first film, and he died without giving us any insight into his inner psyche. If anything, I'd like to think a significant part of the audience cared for Arthur because they were appalled by his treatment and didn't give a toss about the new guy who took over the mantle in the end.
One of the worst sequel's I've ever had the displeasure of sitting through. What was Todd smoking when he came up with this? What was with that shower scene is that like his sick fantasy or something?
Yeah I was wondering that myself. There are layers to this movie that are clearly directed at people and I'm hoping that that scene in particular is not supposed to be directed at anyone IRL because some of the story is actually meta and purposely done that way. That doesn't make it good, but it does make me concerned.
@@DegenerateJay I'm starting to wonder if the director needs mental help himself. He's clearly angry and unhinged at SOMEONE. I'm wondering if he's just plain having trouble directing that anger at any one specific target or if the anger is just plain spinning out of control.
I think it was a valuable critique on police & the prison system…SA is very common in prison. And that’s bad. As the scene pointed out. So there’s that
@@dime1012The issue is it didn’t really critique it it more used it for shock value. Those guards never are reported and nothing comes of it. They just 🍇 him and then he renounces Joker like 10 min later partly because of it.
I also felt that this movie suffered from having 40-50% of the movie retelling the events that occurred in the first one as if we didn't see it or understand it's impact already
This is what happens when people who don't give a shit about the source material make these movies. It's all about their ego, their message, their vision. It's no longer about the characters we know and love.
Todd Phillips is out here burning toast. This was the easiest layup film that there should have been if they wanted to follow it up. Just keep 1 vague and have the Joker persona causing chaos but write it in a meaningful way. Crazy how unhinged these Hollywood people are.
Gaga. I can't imagine her price tag being cheap at all for this movie. In fact, I could EASILY see her contract alone taking at least 75% of the original 200mil budget.
Probably lady gaga’s paycheck as well as the rights to the songs used in the movie if what I heard about it being a jukebox musical is true. Also advertising and other expenses as well. Though movies don’t need to cost that much to be critical and commercial successes.
@@connorgrieve6386 True. They don't really even take that into account in the public budget we see. I saw a figure (and it could be off) that this film would need 430 million to break even. Again, though, that could just be speculation. I didn't throw it out here in this video because I couldn't verify it.
The police scene was really disturbing…as someone who’s older brother has spent most of his life in prison from a young age at 18, & very possibly dealt with SA in that time span at some point, that scene was really hard to watch for me.
The embarrassing part from a story perspective? if that's how the director really felt about fan reaction to the first film, the plot to an infinitely better movie was staring him in the face. Make the 2nd movie about Arthur losing the Joker to people that want to use it as a "symbol" for their own ends: the D.A. wants to use this symbol to demonstrate law and order, his own lawyer wants to make him into a symbol of the effects of the poor mental health system and its effects (even pushing the insanity defense against Arthur's wishes, maybe). Arthur had is moment as a "king", but now he's just another pawn and, after 2-3 years of imprisonment and abuse from the guards and being medicated et all, he's just broken and exhausted and numb. Then, along comes Harley who slowly pulls out the initial spirit of Joker through music (because, if you're going to sing, make it make sense to the plot, damnit!) and slowly pulls that persona out of him again over the course of the trial. The sad "end of Act 2 plot twist" being that she also only sees him as a symbol to her own ends of tearing the system down through the people being galvanized behind him (foreshadowed throughout the film, of course). There's a lot of room to screw that up depending on where you go with it in Act 3, but tell me you're not infinitely more intrigued with that premise than what we got...
The media does push that argument though. They preach it but don't follow it. The media has been going after the rich while simultaneously being owned by and defending the right rich people for decades.
What baffles me about this is Gunn/Safran gave notes and Philips basically did the SpongeBob meme of tossing the paper into the fire after reading it. Hell, there was no test screenings too. Apparently he thought we wanted to see Arthur get his funnyhole brutally tickled by the guards :\
I’ve not watched either movie, but I find it kind of strange how the first movie makes arthur fleck this sympathetic character who suffers through trials that lead him to becoming the joker and then the sequel shits on him for becoming the joker. If what people are speculating are correct that the director hates the people who idolize joker it doesn’t make sense that he would make arthur a character who is really sympathetic and cathartic for the people who feel victimized by the systems and people around them. If he wanted people to stop idolizing joker he should’ve pulled a breaking bad and made joker become more and more evil rather than to double down on his victim identity. The movie could’ve shown the disconnect between who joker is and what his followers see him as. Does harley take advantage of this influential, but controllable person in order to get back at the people she believes wronged her? Do the people who follow joker turn him into a figure who represents the downtrodden people of gotham or do they go out and destroy the city and kill the people around them? Does Arthur even want to be joker or does he enjoy the fame and power joker gives him? There’s so many questions that could’ve been asked and answered, but it seems like the director wanted to piss off fans of the previous movie and WB wanted to make a gorillion smackaroos off a sequel of a highly praised movie.
I had very little hope for this being anything above a 4/10, but lo and behold, it was a bit too generous to expect a 4. I Deux not recommend seeing this at all.
TBH, they set it up that he wasn't the real Joker in the first movie. He's too old to be Joker if Bruce is a pre-teen. And the point of the abuse he suffers is to break him and make him not want to be Joker. Not really a choice I'd make, but I think that's what they were going for. I think the fact that it was a musical was a problem, but I also think that people were disappointed because the Joker in the first film is how they *wanted* the Joker to act, and they didn't want to see that Joker get repudiated and fail.
Joker 2 is probably gonna end up like Star Wars: The Last Jedi in a couple of years when people reevaluate it. I don't think either are good movies. They both try to subvert audience expectations which is commendable but the execution ends up being INCREDIBLY sloppy and unsatisfying. I know what both films were going for and I respect the heck out of them in that regard, but they both fumbled it hard by doing stupid and unnecessary things that muddle what they were trying to do.
I was reading through various articles on Comic Book Resources while listening to this and there's an article that says that Todd Phillips is denying that Joker 2 was meant to attack the fans of the original movie.
"I don't care about that guy." .... You nailed it right there. I don't want to watch a movie about copycat Joker. They did that on Gotham and it sucked (Jerome > Jeremiah).
Yeah and on Gotham they basically ended up with three of them by the end of it. I mean they weren't all active and doing the same thing, but they had gone through the similar character beats three times.
We've a reached a point in Hollywood film making where the people who make these movies are openly telling the audiences WE FUCKING HATE YOU!!! Our lives are miserable because of the fame you've given us. So you know what this is our payback. So alot of movies are just super expensive overly produced middle fingers
Man, I feel so bad for T. I remember watching the Arkham Origins let’s play and hearing him be so giddy and excited for Joker 2... and now its out, getting panned by critics and fans. T must be so gutted...
Man, I'm glad i didn't see this movie. The only time when getting spoiled was a good thing. 😅 Also i have to ask jay if you think kraven will be worth watching?
I hope Kraven will be stupid fun like Venom. Venom isn't "good" really but it's fun. I can't tell though yet lol. Aaron is a great actor at least? So there's that. But Madame Web let me stare at Sydney Sweeney throughout the film and it still wasn't helping much, so who knows.
It honestly kinda hurts me because I really wanted Joker: Folie À Deax to be good. I get what it was going for and that it was meant to be shocking and bold. But I feel like Todd was overconfident with this movie. Some scenes just don't work. Especially the scene with the guards.
I don't think there was any hatred directed at anyone in particular. If anything, the sequel is an even stronger condemnation of how our society treats people like Arthur Fleck, without trying to whitewash the latter. Arthur was never meant to triumph
If anything it feels like giving the finger to WB at least like he didn't want to make a sequel but took the cash and didn't try. Comes off like Halloween 2.
Most of the reviews ive listened to that hate this film tend to have the opinion that there needs to be some sort of triumph for the charcter of Arthur Fleck. The first movie is supposedly good because it ends with him having enough and doesnt care any more, even though he is institutionalized, he isn't gettimg the help he needs. Thats the first film. No with that said Arther might need help, but he is still not a good person, he also isnt a strong person. He is actually quite a pathetic person, even his triumph is pathetic. By that i mean he triumph is embracing evil against evil. Pathetic. So the sequel treats him as he is, pathetic. The tought that a film needs some kind of triumph for its main character is misaimed. Thats a side effect of Hollywood wanting to please the crowd with happy endings. So screen writers always had to give more complicated, sometimes evil characters happy endings or some kind of satisfaction. That isn't realistic, and i find it quite dumb. There used to be two genre's of plays; Comedy and Tragedy. Joker 2 is pure Tragedy through and through, and it does it very well. I liked the first film and this film, and really dont appreciate all the negative reviews. Not because they are wrong to not like the film, bit because they say the film is bad. No ot isnt bad, it shows what happens to bad people who are weak under more bad people. Arther could have gotten a happier ending, but he pushed the help that was offered to him away so he could be the Joker a little longer, because he is pathetic. Love your channel hope you're doimg well and im praying for you, take care.
I expected the worst from this film since it's the only film I've gone into knowing how bad the reviews were, but all my friends and I actually had a good time and gave the film above average scores. I still gave the first film half a star higher for the immaculate atmosphere, but I still think the sequel did its job perfectly. We all see it as the fall in a two-part tragedy. Art is subjective, but I couldn't really grasp the hate behind the film.
That's unfortunately the point. Thay hate the characters, movies, and that people that watch them. They also embed their social, political, and moral views to show you how you should feel and live your life. Punishment, & lesson. These people who do this to well liked films/characters are truly Psychopath's and Predators.
Them coming out and saying definitively what happened and what didn’t is why I had no interest in this film. Joker didn’t need a sequel, it showed what it needed to and left to the imagination how far his delusions reached
I actually enjoyed the movie for what it was, but I have to admit that watching Arthur get fucked over for 2 hours and 18 minutes was pretty depressing in retrospect
i commented nearly the exact same thing in another video about this movie - i NEVER give trigger warnings - ever - im not that guy! However - if you have issues around SA - do NOT see this movie. It is VERY depressing.
The problem with making a movie where the main character is the villain... Is that you have to make the villain the good guy. You have to be able to sympathize with your main character to have a successful story. For the Question of the episode, worst sequel I've ever seen was Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance. Bought that just to break it.
It's definitely a middle finger to the people who supposedly idolize the Joker. The problem is no one really does that whole false narrative that was created by one headline around ths first movie was never real. No one left Joker 2019 going man would be great to be Arthur lol😅. So Todd Phillips essentially made a 2 and a half hour troll sequel targeted toward a group of people who don't actually exist lol. No one thought being Arthur would be amazing they just felt sorry for him and understood why he turned out how he did anyone is going to feel sorry for a guy who is constantly abused and eventually kills his abusers how can you not feel sorry for him? The whole guard rape gangbang thing is a pretty big leap. Yes corrupt prison guards exist but 4 average grown men aren't going to want revenge and automatically think he lets all rape him 😂. That's pretty hard to swallow that 4 adult dudes would want to rape another man they would have beat the shit out of him they wouldn't have raped him. Though obviously what they would have done is sexually assaulted him with a tool or weapon they wouldn't have physically done it if they did do it. The biggest logic flaw with the whole sexual assault thing is why would that break his spirit and make him not be Joker anymore? At the end of Joker 2019 he embraces being the Joker and loves being the Joker he kills his therapist. Yes he's not comic book mastermind Joker but he's still a version of the Joker with most of the Joker personality. Arthur's Joker after that first film would not have stopped being ths Joker because of abuse he was abused his whole dam life why qould more abuse suddenly stop him from being the Joker? If anything it would piss him off more and make him want to be the Joker even more lol. Shit he probably would have went even crazier and went out on a suicide squad mission and killed some of the guards along with himself dying in the process. Shit Arthur as the Joker would have just laughed while they were doing it given how insane he was as the Joker and how he embraced it. It doesn't make sense that it would stop him from being the Joker. The ending with Arthur dying is basically to say that Joker is a person that any nut job can adopt and that this dude will go on to be the actual dangerous Predator Joker.
I personally enjoyed the film, but I completely understand why people didn't like it. The problem I had with it is the fact that it feels like Arthur as a character was done so so dirty. The only time he was happy, is when he was living in a delusion. I think the ending was terrible, but I do think it made sense. I think Arthur was finally coming to terms that his life would never truly be appreciated by anyone other than himself, and he finally came to terms with what he did wrong and admitted to it. I just wish we could've seen more of the character. I really liked Arthur Fleck as a character outside of Joker. I think as a character, he seemed like one of those people that are unironically funny, but very kind, until he got beaten down by society. I really wish we seen more of him able to be himself instead of just getting beat down. That's the real tragedy.
Then it wouldn't have the intense feel that it had. You're looking for a happy toned film, but bro that's not how psychological thrillers work. Ending was terrible, but it made sense, so it wasn't terrible then? It's Gotham, it's a psychological thriller, it isn't meant to do Arthur justice, it's meant to show in Gotham people like Arthur aren't cared about. That's the whole point
@PLUTOXGOAT Out of all of what I said, where did I say or even imply that I wanted a happy toned film? Neither film were happy, they were dark and depressing. I just wish Arthur got his physical justice against the guards in the 2nd one. He came to terms with what he had done, and he grew as a person. I personally wish the ending was different, but it is what it is. I enjoyed the movie, but I do wish Arthur got a different outcome.
@@Amfneey "The only time he was happy was in a Delusion" my bad if I misunderstood you but it sounded like you were implying you wished you seen Arthur get retribution? But honestly that's just not how psychological thrillers work, it's meant to imply despite the status, Arthur still doesn't have the power and he's still vulnerable, I do get what you mean about getting revenge against the guards but it works either way really, in Gotham especially, the "Little people" don't get justice, it's just the way it is. Which will ultimately lead us to Batman and why he's important in a broken system, I think the ending made sense as it ticked the box of who the real Joker would be, and how he would come about, cause Arthur was never gonna be him which was implied in the 1st film and it showed "The Joker" persona was what people cared about, not Arthur individually. So the ending was good imo, I liked the film aswell, I'm glad you enjoyed it too It does suck he didn't get a good ending but still makes sense in the context of the 2 films
I'd have to think more deeply about that, but I think one example would be Alien 3. I don't want to spoil it in case you ever watch them or want to, but it cuts a bunch of characters from 2 out unceremoniously in the opening for no real reason, suffered from tons of studio interference and it set up an ending that didn't matter because the studio found a way to backtrack on parts of it. Terminator Dark Fate is another that is just immensely disappointing to me. Idk if I hate it, because the movies after T2 were mostly letdowns, but it was up there. The second Pocahontas movie I found terrible. I get it somewhat follows irl events in her going to England but it felt like a slap in the face compared to the first standalone movie and was poorly made. There's probably a few more? A lot of films I found more disappointing than anything but I didn't just hate them or disdain them.
I didnt care about the first movie thought it was overrated and i didnt expect much from this movie as long as the musicis good idc. Heard they 13 reasoned why Arthur tho. Didnt like it in the show wont like it here.
I enjoyed joker I was surprised it made a billion dollars. But when I saw joker 2 I thought it was going to be like the first movie, people would get angry & the movie would succeed & make more money but the movie was trash the haters were right. The two things I liked about the movie was the cartoon & the trial scene. This movie is a 3/10. My gosh this movie actually beat Batman & Robin & that movie is trash. Thanks for the review guys God bless you both.
The joker is a MKULTRA project funded by Wayne industries... Arthur via his sex kitten mother sold Arthur into this program.... Arthur temporarily became the joker at the end of joker 1. During his time in prison via drugs and abuse , Arthur took over ... Not until Lee (Arthur's HANDLER) did she reawaken tho agent of chaos ... Music scenes are cues to become said joker .. at the end Arthur wasn't up for the task so they found another joker candidate.... Joker is a Wayne industries project.
He made this for 5 delusional "fans",and 3 outraged journalist who didn't get the movie. Screwing over the bulk of normal people who enjoyed the first movie and saw it as a warning. Making it seem like Todd doesn't understand his first movie anymore..
As someone who loved the first film I liked this one too. People are just complaining it's not what THEY wanted on a personal level, but it's still a really good film. Y'all just expected something else, and given the context of the first film, it all makes perfect sense
@@PLUTOXGOAT The film can be well executed in some parts. Yes, we ALL expected something else. And with we all I mean the majority, judging by the box-office and review numbers numbers. Because the progression of 2 did not make perfect sense to most people who saw part one, more the opposite. Going from embracing to immediately reverting and rejecting. This film was made as a spiteful, kneejerk reaction to a couple of bad takes about the first movie. A 200 million dollar reaction and damaging someone elses property you have no interest in. Not as a worty sequal and it feels like it. But glad you and the other 38% like part 2. Hope that was worth it for Todd and Dc.
@@arrogantbandit1 You don't think I've seen the 1st one? The 1st one is probably in my top 3 best films all time. The 1st one was showing his path to becoming Joker, not THEE Joker tho, the 2nd one was a study of his character from inside Arkham and throughout the trial, and why he did what he done and why he adopts the Joker persona. Everyone expected something else, just because people didn't get to see him acting like heath ledger and terrorising Gotham doesn't mean it's inherently bad, it's just not what THEY wanted because after the 1st film it seems the majority of people never fully understood the 1st film to begin with, the 2nd film is a magnificent extension of the 1st, diving deeper into Arthur's state of mind, how Gotham really perceives him as a whole, and demonstrating that really, only the rich and powerful survive in Gotham. I'm glad too, cause honestly it's the 62% of peoples' loss, this film is very very good
Great video. Yeah just watch the first movie again and pretend the second movie doesn’t exist. Dude should be ashamed of himself for disrespecting his appreciative audience.
Exorcist 2 (1977) was worse. Everyone hating J2. Knowing full well its a musical. Was it bad. Sure I can jump on that band wagon. But I'm not. It was ok. Not great. Not the worse. I knew going in what to expect.
I don't think this is right at all. I think this is a middle finger to the production companies who insisted on this happening because THEY liked the fans reactions/expectations
@@electric__1900 I mean I'm all for people liking it if they like it. I'm not here to change anyone's mind obviously, just to give my thoughts. I do think there are people who like it. It has something like a 35% audience score on RT which means that out of every 10 people who see it and reply with a review 3 to 4 like it. There's definitely a lot out there who liked it like both of you.
@@senormarston lol maybe, it also seems like I’m in the minority of people that didn’t really think much of Matt Reeve’s Batman movie either. Maybe I’m just weird 😅
Both the movies aren’t that good. I didn’t support the first one because I KNEW they was on bullshit from the get….. the first movie wasn’t the joker….not saying it’s a bad story but just not a good joker story 😂…. It’s sad because individual villain stories can work but you gotta respect the material!!!!!!
Thank you so much, Jay! Reviews like yours save me 20+ bucks in movie theater costs each and every time I watch reviews for movies, especially movies I suspect are either plain bad or woke pieces of trash. It's curious to see a film director of any kind hate his own fans so much. Usually, most cases would tell ya that directors would LOVE audiences to love and appreciate their works of art. This guy though...I really don't know what's going on with him. It's obvious he's inserted some Woke/liberal elements for the sequel but it's like he's so mixed signals that he's scrambling a satellite by the sounds of it.
Haha well I'm glad that people liked the review so I really really appreciate that. Idk what's going on with this it's back and forth on what he believes and what he pushes in the narratives. I'm fine with liberal stuff (or conservative leaning stuff) as long as it's well written and not beating me over the head with it. I always go back to it, but classic Star Trek for example is just amazing. Love that stuff to death. I just can't stand terrible writing.
I am glad you guys manage to deconstruct the film with humor and atleast make your viewers enjoy the content of a shitty movie with your commentary 😂 thanks
You literally had to spend the whole time overstating that it’s a movie worth the money they over invested in it but that’s just cause of the egos involved if anything that’s the way these comic book movies always go but the compliment flip flop clearly doesn’t help because it’s not some comfortable compliment sandwich it’s just stating that maybe the artists shouldn’t make what they want whenever we know that the director had to stop Warner from overselling stupid shit in the first film so realistically what might have happened is once he sold them the footage they had the ability to change what the official movie sold was if anything I would way rather the artist be allowed to tell whatever they want actually because the problem likely is that they wanted him to have so much more control and so much more budget but if they were telling him what to make the conclusions in his head telling him to make more crazy shit happen just because it’s about the craziest dc character mind you, they would still just have to spend too much money making it period and for that matter trying to hammer too hard the point that he was getting across isn’t even like a balancing act of making it pretty with set dressing so Warner themselves might not even be able to read into what they’re publishing, more like the chance he thought he had to take and if I were in the same position I can honestly think I would try my best to do what I thought that was exactly if anything the movie having delays maybe tells of the movie having some alternate paths laid bare on the table to which a somewhat overly heady artist thinks to reject because it’s likely they can keep returning to the also most popular dc villain and keep using those ideas like from out of a filing cabinet but the pretentious yes and I’ll even say it since I’m not a fan of these joker movies so I can actually be the person to fully diagnose it for you all P R E C O C O C I U S artist does basically make that decision ala Zack Snyder etc.
If you say a half dozen times you don’t understand the message, maybe you should relax before the insult hurling and saying you’d right a better one. I’m sure you don’t like it because it’s pointed at people like you. Arthur’s mother made up the illness. He wasn’t relatable. This movie expands upon what a monster he was and how a monster gets created with real, tragic events.
I personally enjoyed the movie but i absolutely understand the criticism it received. Nothing happens with the plot and having the events of the original explained to us in the court scenes was terrible just for examples.
I hated this movie, in case that's not clear. I haven't hated a movie this much since Halloween Ends or Brighburn. If you enjoy the video, we have memberships and a Patreon, and we also have our website cosmobunny.shop ! We've been playing through games over on our let's play channel too here - www.youtube.com/@realdegenerateplays and you can use our Fortnite Code DJAY123 ! Much love. Save yourself and don't watch this movie please.
The first movie is STILL a modern-day CLASSIC. Watch that one again and forget this trashhheeaa' sequel exists.
@@Gametester110-qf8vs Completely agree. It just sucks that I have to have the feeling in my head of knowing "where it goes." I'm going to assume this was just made to cash in and send a message with the blank check from Joker 1 and view 1 as standalone. It's way better that way, and it's open-ended and multi-layered. This film simplified 1 so much it's unreal.
@@DegenerateJay why did u hate brightburn
@@jarrodedson5441idk if you like it but it’s sort of an overly graphic shallow movie that doesn’t lead anywhere.
I know he's divisive but I actually never hated Jared Letos Crime Boss Joker and this flick makes me appreciate him even more lol.
It really fuckin sucks to see how many franchises are now led by people who hate the fans.
It’s almost as if liberalism just leads to destruction of that which was good…
@SteveKilgore27 stop bringing politics into this
@@cameronvelska4610 you’re right, it’s all the conservatives in Hollywood ruining these things 🙄
@SteveKilgore27 this wasn't liberalism or conservatism, it was corporatism. It's how Jaws was amazing, but every subsequent Jaws onwards is just corporatized husks of what came before.
@@grantdaily9662 TBF this movie is very political and both are about class struggle and politics. Its not something that should be dragged into every single convo but it does kinda fit here.
"Wrongthink? Bit of backdoor breaking will sort that."
- Joker 2: Push in a Poo
I'm dying at the name lmfao
Joker: I'm the Joker, baby!
Joker Folly a Poo: I'm not the Joker, baby!
I call it Folia Ducks
Honestly Speaking, the SA being part of his Childhood Trauma was so unnecessary. In the first film, nowhere was it indicated that his mum was molesting him, or did so in the past. It came off as just unhealthy parenting, where his mother still saw him as her little boy. She was manipulative and condescending at times, sure.
I really do feel that the "SA" line in the courtroom was the reason why the guards later were implied to have done the same thing to him later on. As if the makers of the film were like "Well, we have said the word anyway, so might as well imply it too".
All of the Prison Guards were shown to be stereotypically Straight Men with superiority complex. Straight people don't go out SAing People just to get even or teach them a lesson.
I hate it when SA is used as a crutch to portray Trauma. People have Traumatic past even if SA didn't happen.
I lost quite a lot of Respect for Todd Philips after this film.
I didn't expect I'd see a "make them learn by SA'ing them" in 2024, much less in a movie about a clearly ill man, yet here we are...
It did mention the sexual abuse in the first movie. People hate this movie because it is a clearly written tragedy and yes a critique on our society in general an that nobody gives a fuck about disturbed and abused people unless they fulfill some sick fantasy for our entertainment.
@@hdawn5952 It is reiterated definitively in the scene mmediately preceding the assault. I agree it's a clearly written tragedy, but it's not a well-crafted one and it does exactly what it accuses the audience of doing. This is why people don't like it. People were outraged by how it ended *because* they had grown to have empathy for Arthur, which the movie didn't.
@@kostantza1People were self inserting with the joker.
Its why they make Buck Breaking jokes about Arthur.
Because without the clown make up no one gives a shit about the mentally ill loner.
Still a bad movie though
Todd Phillips created a sympathetic character, and then, in the second film, basically told us we're bad people for sympathizing with the sympathetic character.
The first film establishes that he was SA'd and abused as a child and has mental health issues.
But I guess we're not supposed to sympathize with that.
Then the second movie, Todd Phillips' message, is basically fall in line and do what you're told.
Nobody thought that Joker was a split personality coming out of the first film, so why the second movie presents a a revelation that indeed there is no split personality it's just Arthur is puzzling.
Laziness. They really did not know what to do but wanted the money.
I was so disappointed over how they made this possible split personality a central plot point, put HARVEY FUCKING DENT as prosecutor and never NEVER in a single momment used harvey's relationship/history of split personality as tool in the narrative. Such a wasted potential
This is a clear example of a sequel that did not need to be. It's like making Terminator 3.
I agree Terminator could have ended at T2 but I actually didn't mind Dark Fate which I know is a divisive film but John Connor was never my favorite character in T2 so I wasn't super upset that he died.
Pacific rim 2 moment...
I always hated the idea that Arthur would just inspire the real Joker, hate that it's been confirmed. Batman's greatest nemesis being relegated to just a copycat of some other guy makes him way less special
He's not a copycat of Arthur Fleck. The movie looks at Joker as a persona and idea bigger than any one person or origin story. Like Alan Moore's Killing Joke said, The Joker likes multiple choice... So acting like he could only be one guy or interpreted in one way when he has many origins, Elseworlds, personas, identities, etc. is false.
@@writerartist6306He's a copycat
“They’re using their pemi$ powerrrr”😂💀💀bruhhhh
The sequel should have shown Arthur's decent into complete madness and fully embracing the Joker persona as his own idenity. The musical scenes should have played a vital part of how Joker saw the world around him from a warped perspective, it should have shown him as a crazy person who saw the world for what it truly was and how everything was nothing more than a joke. The movie should have shown been about Joker, not Arthur.
You know what is stupid about this? That this was the movie to make people stop sympathizing with the Joker. The first movie is the creation of a sympathetic monster beaten down by society. The second movie should have been the monster coming in and beating society. Bringing into focus why we have the social contract and why the abandoned principles of hope, love and community is not the path to fix anything. That Insanity and chaos has no future and self perpetuates pain forever. A better movie should have been made and a better director would have known that.
It feels like Sony and DC are competing with each other to see who will have lowest grossing superhero movie. DC over here “hold my beer!”
Sony is going to make all that money back on Kraven! Just you wait!
@@DegenerateJay Nah, Kraven is going to flop just like Madame Web.
"It'd be funny if it weren’t so pathetic." -The Joker
"Ah, what the hell. I'll laugh anyway!"
They should have had him gain weight and healthy and become a full joker in the end. What a waste of time and money for hard-working people. I'm not giving Hollywood another dime of my money.
If....and I say, if....they wanted to tackle sexual assault as a narrative point, all they had to do was put an offhand mention earlier in the movie that the guards use sexual violence. To see them go from 0 to 100, it was pretty clear it was only there to shock and disturb. I also thought putting that scene just after it was revealed in the trial that he was abused as a child similarly was in profoundly bad taste and....quite mean-spirited really, because I can imagine of no other reason it was put in like that. The sad thing is, they tried to say that the movie was about how everyone wanted to see the Joker and not Arthur, but in the end we didn't know Arthur any better than at the end of the first film, and he died without giving us any insight into his inner psyche. If anything, I'd like to think a significant part of the audience cared for Arthur because they were appalled by his treatment and didn't give a toss about the new guy who took over the mantle in the end.
One of the worst sequel's I've ever had the displeasure of sitting through. What was Todd smoking when he came up with this? What was with that shower scene is that like his sick fantasy or something?
Yeah I was wondering that myself. There are layers to this movie that are clearly directed at people and I'm hoping that that scene in particular is not supposed to be directed at anyone IRL because some of the story is actually meta and purposely done that way. That doesn't make it good, but it does make me concerned.
@@DegenerateJay I'm starting to wonder if the director needs mental help himself. He's clearly angry and unhinged at SOMEONE. I'm wondering if he's just plain having trouble directing that anger at any one specific target or if the anger is just plain spinning out of control.
I think it was a valuable critique on police & the prison system…SA is very common in prison. And that’s bad. As the scene pointed out. So there’s that
@@dime1012The issue is it didn’t really critique it it more used it for shock value. Those guards never are reported and nothing comes of it. They just 🍇 him and then he renounces Joker like 10 min later partly because of it.
@@dime1012 But how did it critique it? It showed it but it didn't really critique anything.
I also felt that this movie suffered from having 40-50% of the movie retelling the events that occurred in the first one as if we didn't see it or understand it's impact already
This is what happens when people who don't give a shit about the source material make these movies. It's all about their ego, their message, their vision. It's no longer about the characters we know and love.
Never let Todd Phillips cook again.
💯
Todd Phillips is out here burning toast. This was the easiest layup film that there should have been if they wanted to follow it up. Just keep 1 vague and have the Joker persona causing chaos but write it in a meaningful way. Crazy how unhinged these Hollywood people are.
Fax bro had 2 sucess
Joker 1
Hangover 1
21:09 had me dying😂
I'm glad people enjoyed that because not many mentioned my musical talents. This is all just a disgruntled review because I wasn't hired.
That was hilarious
How this trash cost 200 million to make I will never understand.
It feels like a money laundering scheme to me lol.
Gaga. I can't imagine her price tag being cheap at all for this movie. In fact, I could EASILY see her contract alone taking at least 75% of the original 200mil budget.
Probably lady gaga’s paycheck as well as the rights to the songs used in the movie if what I heard about it being a jukebox musical is true. Also advertising and other expenses as well. Though movies don’t need to cost that much to be critical and commercial successes.
Another 200 mill for advertising 😅
@@connorgrieve6386 True. They don't really even take that into account in the public budget we see. I saw a figure (and it could be off) that this film would need 430 million to break even. Again, though, that could just be speculation. I didn't throw it out here in this video because I couldn't verify it.
The police scene was really disturbing…as someone who’s older brother has spent most of his life in prison from a young age at 18, & very possibly dealt with SA in that time span at some point, that scene was really hard to watch for me.
"Did Todd do to All Audiences, what the Two Guards do to ... Arthur ?!"
The embarrassing part from a story perspective? if that's how the director really felt about fan reaction to the first film, the plot to an infinitely better movie was staring him in the face. Make the 2nd movie about Arthur losing the Joker to people that want to use it as a "symbol" for their own ends: the D.A. wants to use this symbol to demonstrate law and order, his own lawyer wants to make him into a symbol of the effects of the poor mental health system and its effects (even pushing the insanity defense against Arthur's wishes, maybe). Arthur had is moment as a "king", but now he's just another pawn and, after 2-3 years of imprisonment and abuse from the guards and being medicated et all, he's just broken and exhausted and numb. Then, along comes Harley who slowly pulls out the initial spirit of Joker through music (because, if you're going to sing, make it make sense to the plot, damnit!) and slowly pulls that persona out of him again over the course of the trial. The sad "end of Act 2 plot twist" being that she also only sees him as a symbol to her own ends of tearing the system down through the people being galvanized behind him (foreshadowed throughout the film, of course).
There's a lot of room to screw that up depending on where you go with it in Act 3, but tell me you're not infinitely more intrigued with that premise than what we got...
21:25 I have been cry-laughing so hard for 10 minutes
I've heard enough. Give Jay a Grammy
Just let me sing!
The worst sequel movie was Megamind 2
Was Todd interested in being on the giving or the receiving end of that divisive scene though? That’s my question
Overall good review, but blud saying the media would agree with stopping the rich was hilarious.
The media does push that argument though. They preach it but don't follow it. The media has been going after the rich while simultaneously being owned by and defending the right rich people for decades.
The first Joker was definitely every Incel’s hero
How?! He didn’t kill people because he hated black people or women.
Drink plenty of water. A timeless message
What baffles me about this is Gunn/Safran gave notes and Philips basically did the SpongeBob meme of tossing the paper into the fire after reading it. Hell, there was no test screenings too. Apparently he thought we wanted to see Arthur get his funnyhole brutally tickled by the guards :\
I’ve not watched either movie, but I find it kind of strange how the first movie makes arthur fleck this sympathetic character who suffers through trials that lead him to becoming the joker and then the sequel shits on him for becoming the joker. If what people are speculating are correct that the director hates the people who idolize joker it doesn’t make sense that he would make arthur a character who is really sympathetic and cathartic for the people who feel victimized by the systems and people around them. If he wanted people to stop idolizing joker he should’ve pulled a breaking bad and made joker become more and more evil rather than to double down on his victim identity. The movie could’ve shown the disconnect between who joker is and what his followers see him as. Does harley take advantage of this influential, but controllable person in order to get back at the people she believes wronged her? Do the people who follow joker turn him into a figure who represents the downtrodden people of gotham or do they go out and destroy the city and kill the people around them? Does Arthur even want to be joker or does he enjoy the fame and power joker gives him? There’s so many questions that could’ve been asked and answered, but it seems like the director wanted to piss off fans of the previous movie and WB wanted to make a gorillion smackaroos off a sequel of a highly praised movie.
I had very little hope for this being anything above a 4/10, but lo and behold, it was a bit too generous to expect a 4. I Deux not recommend seeing this at all.
TBH, they set it up that he wasn't the real Joker in the first movie. He's too old to be Joker if Bruce is a pre-teen. And the point of the abuse he suffers is to break him and make him not want to be Joker. Not really a choice I'd make, but I think that's what they were going for.
I think the fact that it was a musical was a problem, but I also think that people were disappointed because the Joker in the first film is how they *wanted* the Joker to act, and they didn't want to see that Joker get repudiated and fail.
I don't think Joker 2 hates us for being fans, the movie is just a bad joke nobody saw coming.
Joker 2 is probably gonna end up like Star Wars: The Last Jedi in a couple of years when people reevaluate it.
I don't think either are good movies. They both try to subvert audience expectations which is commendable but the execution ends up being INCREDIBLY sloppy and unsatisfying.
I know what both films were going for and I respect the heck out of them in that regard, but they both fumbled it hard by doing stupid and unnecessary things that muddle what they were trying to do.
I was reading through various articles on Comic Book Resources while listening to this and there's an article that says that Todd Phillips is denying that Joker 2 was meant to attack the fans of the original movie.
Great video, great energy
Thank you for this review. You are so genuine that I subscribed!
"I don't care about that guy." .... You nailed it right there. I don't want to watch a movie about copycat Joker. They did that on Gotham and it sucked (Jerome > Jeremiah).
Yeah and on Gotham they basically ended up with three of them by the end of it. I mean they weren't all active and doing the same thing, but they had gone through the similar character beats three times.
@@DegenerateJay yup! Gimmie the one and only, multiple versions of the same character is just not interesting to me.
Joker: La Phrase Française Prétentieux
We've a reached a point in Hollywood film making where the people who make these movies are openly telling the audiences WE FUCKING HATE YOU!!! Our lives are miserable because of the fame you've given us. So you know what this is our payback. So alot of movies are just super expensive overly produced middle fingers
Oh, and funny thing.
Look up Todd's real life inspiration for a lot of stuff in Joker.
Does he.. like John Wayne Gacy?
Joker 1 writers: "Let's have Society screw up Arthur's life."
Joker 2 writers: "Now it's our turn."
Man, I feel so bad for T. I remember watching the Arkham Origins let’s play and hearing him be so giddy and excited for Joker 2... and now its out, getting panned by critics and fans. T must be so gutted...
20:27 Hi ho! Kermit the Frog here!
Man, I'm glad i didn't see this movie. The only time when getting spoiled was a good thing. 😅 Also i have to ask jay if you think kraven will be worth watching?
I hope Kraven will be stupid fun like Venom. Venom isn't "good" really but it's fun. I can't tell though yet lol. Aaron is a great actor at least? So there's that. But Madame Web let me stare at Sydney Sweeney throughout the film and it still wasn't helping much, so who knows.
It honestly kinda hurts me because I really wanted Joker: Folie À Deax to be good. I get what it was going for and that it was meant to be shocking and bold. But I feel like Todd was overconfident with this movie. Some scenes just don't work. Especially the scene with the guards.
I don't think there was any hatred directed at anyone in particular. If anything, the sequel is an even stronger condemnation of how our society treats people like Arthur Fleck, without trying to whitewash the latter. Arthur was never meant to triumph
If anything it feels like giving the finger to WB at least like he didn't want to make a sequel but took the cash and didn't try. Comes off like Halloween 2.
Very good conversation guys
Lightning don't always strike twice a people
Most of the reviews ive listened to that hate this film tend to have the opinion that there needs to be some sort of triumph for the charcter of Arthur Fleck. The first movie is supposedly good because it ends with him having enough and doesnt care any more, even though he is institutionalized, he isn't gettimg the help he needs. Thats the first film.
No with that said Arther might need help, but he is still not a good person, he also isnt a strong person. He is actually quite a pathetic person, even his triumph is pathetic. By that i mean he triumph is embracing evil against evil. Pathetic. So the sequel treats him as he is, pathetic.
The tought that a film needs some kind of triumph for its main character is misaimed. Thats a side effect of Hollywood wanting to please the crowd with happy endings. So screen writers always had to give more complicated, sometimes evil characters happy endings or some kind of satisfaction. That isn't realistic, and i find it quite dumb. There used to be two genre's of plays; Comedy and Tragedy. Joker 2 is pure Tragedy through and through, and it does it very well. I liked the first film and this film, and really dont appreciate all the negative reviews. Not because they are wrong to not like the film, bit because they say the film is bad. No ot isnt bad, it shows what happens to bad people who are weak under more bad people. Arther could have gotten a happier ending, but he pushed the help that was offered to him away so he could be the Joker a little longer, because he is pathetic.
Love your channel hope you're doimg well and im praying for you, take care.
No offense, but no one needed a lecture from you, especially a bad lecture.
@@CatsClaw44 I beg your pardon, but you have mistaken an opinion for a lecture. But I trust you have seen the film?
I expected the worst from this film since it's the only film I've gone into knowing how bad the reviews were, but all my friends and I actually had a good time and gave the film above average scores. I still gave the first film half a star higher for the immaculate atmosphere, but I still think the sequel did its job perfectly. We all see it as the fall in a two-part tragedy. Art is subjective, but I couldn't really grasp the hate behind the film.
It's funny you mention misery p*rn, because that's what I thought of the first one. Can't say I'm at all surprised the sequel is more of that.
The first at least leads to a conclusion. The second just leads to some corrective 🍇
As a Batman fan and a fan of these characters and this world if you HATE these characters WHY IN THE HELL DID YOU EVEN BOTHER MAKING A FILM ABOUT THEM
That's unfortunately the point. Thay hate the characters, movies, and that people that watch them. They also embed their social, political, and moral views to show you how you should feel and live your life. Punishment, & lesson. These people who do this to well liked films/characters are truly Psychopath's and Predators.
hey i wanted to know what you thought about lady Gaga’s Harlequin? nobody is talking about her performance is it good? bad?
Them coming out and saying definitively what happened and what didn’t is why I had no interest in this film. Joker didn’t need a sequel, it showed what it needed to and left to the imagination how far his delusions reached
I actually enjoyed the movie for what it was, but I have to admit that watching Arthur get fucked over for 2 hours and 18 minutes was pretty depressing in retrospect
i commented nearly the exact same thing in another video about this movie - i NEVER give trigger warnings - ever - im not that guy!
However - if you have issues around SA - do NOT see this movie. It is VERY depressing.
Tbf, I think SA is one of the only situations where trigger warnings are valid
The problem with making a movie where the main character is the villain... Is that you have to make the villain the good guy. You have to be able to sympathize with your main character to have a successful story.
For the Question of the episode, worst sequel I've ever seen was Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance. Bought that just to break it.
I will say, both Ghost Riders are like guilty pleasure films for me, but I totally understand that.
Todd Phillips should be boycotted from anything he makes in the future.
So Arthur gets butt boinked by the guards...no big deal
It's definitely a middle finger to the people who supposedly idolize the Joker. The problem is no one really does that whole false narrative that was created by one headline around ths first movie was never real. No one left Joker 2019 going man would be great to be Arthur lol😅. So Todd Phillips essentially made a 2 and a half hour troll sequel targeted toward a group of people who don't actually exist lol. No one thought being Arthur would be amazing they just felt sorry for him and understood why he turned out how he did anyone is going to feel sorry for a guy who is constantly abused and eventually kills his abusers how can you not feel sorry for him?
The whole guard rape gangbang thing is a pretty big leap. Yes corrupt prison guards exist but 4 average grown men aren't going to want revenge and automatically think he lets all rape him 😂. That's pretty hard to swallow that 4 adult dudes would want to rape another man they would have beat the shit out of him they wouldn't have raped him. Though obviously what they would have done is sexually assaulted him with a tool or weapon they wouldn't have physically done it if they did do it. The biggest logic flaw with the whole sexual assault thing is why would that break his spirit and make him not be Joker anymore? At the end of Joker 2019 he embraces being the Joker and loves being the Joker he kills his therapist. Yes he's not comic book mastermind Joker but he's still a version of the Joker with most of the Joker personality. Arthur's Joker after that first film would not have stopped being ths Joker because of abuse he was abused his whole dam life why qould more abuse suddenly stop him from being the Joker? If anything it would piss him off more and make him want to be the Joker even more lol. Shit he probably would have went even crazier and went out on a suicide squad mission and killed some of the guards along with himself dying in the process. Shit Arthur as the Joker would have just laughed while they were doing it given how insane he was as the Joker and how he embraced it. It doesn't make sense that it would stop him from being the Joker. The ending with Arthur dying is basically to say that Joker is a person that any nut job can adopt and that this dude will go on to be the actual dangerous Predator Joker.
Very well said
I personally enjoyed the film, but I completely understand why people didn't like it. The problem I had with it is the fact that it feels like Arthur as a character was done so so dirty. The only time he was happy, is when he was living in a delusion. I think the ending was terrible, but I do think it made sense. I think Arthur was finally coming to terms that his life would never truly be appreciated by anyone other than himself, and he finally came to terms with what he did wrong and admitted to it. I just wish we could've seen more of the character. I really liked Arthur Fleck as a character outside of Joker. I think as a character, he seemed like one of those people that are unironically funny, but very kind, until he got beaten down by society. I really wish we seen more of him able to be himself instead of just getting beat down. That's the real tragedy.
Then it wouldn't have the intense feel that it had. You're looking for a happy toned film, but bro that's not how psychological thrillers work.
Ending was terrible, but it made sense, so it wasn't terrible then?
It's Gotham, it's a psychological thriller, it isn't meant to do Arthur justice, it's meant to show in Gotham people like Arthur aren't cared about. That's the whole point
@PLUTOXGOAT Out of all of what I said, where did I say or even imply that I wanted a happy toned film? Neither film were happy, they were dark and depressing. I just wish Arthur got his physical justice against the guards in the 2nd one. He came to terms with what he had done, and he grew as a person. I personally wish the ending was different, but it is what it is. I enjoyed the movie, but I do wish Arthur got a different outcome.
@@Amfneey "The only time he was happy was in a Delusion"
my bad if I misunderstood you but it sounded like you were implying you wished you seen Arthur get retribution?
But honestly that's just not how psychological thrillers work, it's meant to imply despite the status, Arthur still doesn't have the power and he's still vulnerable, I do get what you mean about getting revenge against the guards but it works either way really,
in Gotham especially, the "Little people" don't get justice, it's just the way it is. Which will ultimately lead us to Batman and why he's important in a broken system,
I think the ending made sense as it ticked the box of who the real Joker would be, and how he would come about, cause Arthur was never gonna be him which was implied in the 1st film and it showed "The Joker" persona was what people cared about, not Arthur individually.
So the ending was good imo, I liked the film aswell, I'm glad you enjoyed it too
It does suck he didn't get a good ending but still makes sense in the context of the 2 films
I think it’s a beautiful piece of art and a magnificent film
what are the other films you disdain beside this, halloween ends and brightburn???
I'd have to think more deeply about that, but I think one example would be Alien 3. I don't want to spoil it in case you ever watch them or want to, but it cuts a bunch of characters from 2 out unceremoniously in the opening for no real reason, suffered from tons of studio interference and it set up an ending that didn't matter because the studio found a way to backtrack on parts of it. Terminator Dark Fate is another that is just immensely disappointing to me. Idk if I hate it, because the movies after T2 were mostly letdowns, but it was up there. The second Pocahontas movie I found terrible. I get it somewhat follows irl events in her going to England but it felt like a slap in the face compared to the first standalone movie and was poorly made. There's probably a few more? A lot of films I found more disappointing than anything but I didn't just hate them or disdain them.
I didnt care about the first movie thought it was overrated and i didnt expect much from this movie as long as the musicis good idc. Heard they 13 reasoned why Arthur tho. Didnt like it in the show wont like it here.
I love both films
I enjoyed joker I was surprised it made a billion dollars. But when I saw joker 2 I thought it was going to be like the first movie, people would get angry & the movie would succeed & make more money but the movie was trash the haters were right. The two things I liked about the movie was the cartoon & the trial scene. This movie is a 3/10. My gosh this movie actually beat Batman & Robin & that movie is trash. Thanks for the review guys God bless you both.
Joker Folie à Dud
The joker is a MKULTRA project funded by Wayne industries... Arthur via his sex kitten mother sold Arthur into this program.... Arthur temporarily became the joker at the end of joker 1. During his time in prison via drugs and abuse , Arthur took over ... Not until Lee (Arthur's HANDLER) did she reawaken tho agent of chaos ... Music scenes are cues to become said joker .. at the end Arthur wasn't up for the task so they found another joker candidate.... Joker is a Wayne industries project.
People with mental health? lol
He made this for 5 delusional "fans",and 3 outraged journalist who didn't get the movie.
Screwing over the bulk of normal people who enjoyed the first movie and saw it as a warning.
Making it seem like Todd doesn't understand his first movie anymore..
Hollywood are rich people that see the audience as peasants. They are scared is poor people will kill rich people like themselves in the movie lol
As someone who loved the first film I liked this one too.
People are just complaining it's not what THEY wanted on a personal level, but it's still a really good film.
Y'all just expected something else, and given the context of the first film, it all makes perfect sense
@@PLUTOXGOAT The film can be well executed in some parts.
Yes, we ALL expected something else.
And with we all I mean the majority, judging by the box-office and review numbers numbers.
Because the progression of 2 did not make perfect sense to most people who saw part one, more the opposite.
Going from embracing to immediately reverting and rejecting.
This film was made as a spiteful, kneejerk reaction to a couple of bad takes about the first movie. A 200 million dollar reaction and damaging someone elses property you have no interest in. Not as a worty sequal and it feels like it.
But glad you and the other 38% like part 2.
Hope that was worth it for Todd and Dc.
@@arrogantbandit1 You don't think I've seen the 1st one? The 1st one is probably in my top 3 best films all time.
The 1st one was showing his path to becoming Joker, not THEE Joker tho, the 2nd one was a study of his character from inside Arkham and throughout the trial, and why he did what he done and why he adopts the Joker persona.
Everyone expected something else, just because people didn't get to see him acting like heath ledger and terrorising Gotham doesn't mean it's inherently bad, it's just not what THEY wanted because after the 1st film it seems the majority of people never fully understood the 1st film to begin with, the 2nd film is a magnificent extension of the 1st, diving deeper into Arthur's state of mind, how Gotham really perceives him as a whole, and demonstrating that really, only the rich and powerful survive in Gotham.
I'm glad too, cause honestly it's the 62% of peoples' loss, this film is very very good
Great video. Yeah just watch the first movie again and pretend the second movie doesn’t exist. Dude should be ashamed of himself for disrespecting his appreciative audience.
Exorcist 2 (1977) was worse. Everyone hating J2. Knowing full well its a musical. Was it bad. Sure I can jump on that band wagon. But I'm not. It was ok. Not great. Not the worse. I knew going in what to expect.
I don't think this is right at all. I think this is a middle finger to the production companies who insisted on this happening because THEY liked the fans reactions/expectations
Yeah it made me mad that the Joker got diddled😢
Ohhhh and what's so stinking about it
Am I the only person in the WORLD that really liked this movie, like dayam 😅
I don't like it but hey more power to you for liking it. There's a group that did enjoy it.
I liked it too
@@electric__1900 I mean I'm all for people liking it if they like it. I'm not here to change anyone's mind obviously, just to give my thoughts. I do think there are people who like it. It has something like a 35% audience score on RT which means that out of every 10 people who see it and reply with a review 3 to 4 like it. There's definitely a lot out there who liked it like both of you.
you have an awful taste
@@senormarston lol maybe, it also seems like I’m in the minority of people that didn’t really think much of Matt Reeve’s Batman movie either. Maybe I’m just weird 😅
The court scene between Joker and Gary Puddles is the only good scene in this bad movie
Dude I really didn’t even catch the SA scene until I read on it. It’s just so distasteful
how do we know he was raped and not beaten they hand killed his lover in the next scene maybe they were beating them both for being gay
Both the movies aren’t that good. I didn’t support the first one because I KNEW they was on bullshit from the get….. the first movie wasn’t the joker….not saying it’s a bad story but just not a good joker story 😂….
It’s sad because individual villain stories can work but you gotta respect the material!!!!!!
Movie make me want to tear eye out. bad film. would not fly in homeland japan.
Empire is a fire movie lol
You hoping on silent hill 2 bro?
What do you mean if you don't mind me asking? Like do I hope it's good or am I going to talk about it?
@@DegenerateJay oh I was just hoping to get your opinion on the game is all I was saying
I hope Todd Philips never gets any opportunities after this. They shouldn't have given him full control
Thank you so much, Jay! Reviews like yours save me 20+ bucks in movie theater costs each and every time I watch reviews for movies, especially movies I suspect are either plain bad or woke pieces of trash.
It's curious to see a film director of any kind hate his own fans so much. Usually, most cases would tell ya that directors would LOVE audiences to love and appreciate their works of art. This guy though...I really don't know what's going on with him. It's obvious he's inserted some Woke/liberal elements for the sequel but it's like he's so mixed signals that he's scrambling a satellite by the sounds of it.
Haha well I'm glad that people liked the review so I really really appreciate that. Idk what's going on with this it's back and forth on what he believes and what he pushes in the narratives. I'm fine with liberal stuff (or conservative leaning stuff) as long as it's well written and not beating me over the head with it. I always go back to it, but classic Star Trek for example is just amazing. Love that stuff to death. I just can't stand terrible writing.
@@sunny-gt7qw Are you ok man? You're just crying under every comment. Every time I click your name its just you crying.
What if joker actually liked it
I am glad you guys manage to deconstruct the film with humor and atleast make your viewers enjoy the content of a shitty movie with your commentary 😂 thanks
You literally had to spend the whole time overstating that it’s a movie worth the money they over invested in it but that’s just cause of the egos involved if anything that’s the way these comic book movies always go but the compliment flip flop clearly doesn’t help because it’s not some comfortable compliment sandwich it’s just stating that maybe the artists shouldn’t make what they want whenever we know that the director had to stop Warner from overselling stupid shit in the first film so realistically what might have happened is once he sold them the footage they had the ability to change what the official movie sold was if anything I would way rather the artist be allowed to tell whatever they want actually because the problem likely is that they wanted him to have so much more control and so much more budget but if they were telling him what to make the conclusions in his head telling him to make more crazy shit happen just because it’s about the craziest dc character mind you, they would still just have to spend too much money making it period and for that matter trying to hammer too hard the point that he was getting across isn’t even like a balancing act of making it pretty with set dressing so Warner themselves might not even be able to read into what they’re publishing, more like the chance he thought he had to take and if I were in the same position I can honestly think I would try my best to do what I thought that was exactly if anything the movie having delays maybe tells of the movie having some alternate paths laid bare on the table to which a somewhat overly heady artist thinks to reject because it’s likely they can keep returning to the also most popular dc villain and keep using those ideas like from out of a filing cabinet but the pretentious yes and I’ll even say it since I’m not a fan of these joker movies so I can actually be the person to fully diagnose it for you all P R E C O C O C I U S artist does basically make that decision ala Zack Snyder etc.
lol it’s precococious I’m leaving bye
What about the fans that suck but didnt care for the first movie? Lol
The worst sequel I've seen is surf's up 2
If you say a half dozen times you don’t understand the message, maybe you should relax before the insult hurling and saying you’d right a better one. I’m sure you don’t like it because it’s pointed at people like you. Arthur’s mother made up the illness. He wasn’t relatable. This movie expands upon what a monster he was and how a monster gets created with real, tragic events.
Joker: Folié À DOODOO💩
I personally enjoyed the movie but i absolutely understand the criticism it received. Nothing happens with the plot and having the events of the original explained to us in the court scenes was terrible just for examples.
I hate this movie What a disappointment to the first one.