I'm tempted to just go back to my worst videos and construct a meta-narrative that they were supposed to be bad. I was making them from an angle of chaos all along. If you enjoyed this video, you might like our conversations over on our let's play channel, here - www.youtube.com/@realdegenerateplays or we also have an RPG channel here - www.youtube.com/@DJayRPG
Yeah. It feels good to know there's still SOME people out there who are actually simply PASSIONATE about their craft and product and not just worried about were the next "quick buck" is coming from. I feel like if we had more people like THEM in Hollywood, movies over the last 15 years or so would've looked like a totally different animal.
I hated the original simply on the principle that Arthur Fleck's Joker did not resemble the Joker whatsoever. However, ignoring that, it was actually trying to explore some genuinely important themes. However, what p!sses me off most about this film is that it actively spits on the fans of the original. This is like Charles Dickens writing A Christmas Carol 2 and having Scrooge burn in H3LL while watching the events that the ghost of Christmas yet to come showed him come to pass. May Joker 3 be written by Scott Cawthon, y'know, someone who knows how to make a good story while showing love towards the fanbase.
Joker 2 was one of the most boring cinematic experiences in my life. The musical numbers were the least concerning part about the movie, it was the regression of Arthur Fleck's character and tore down everything the first movie established. The movie failing at the box office is astounding since MORBIUS made more money than Joker 2. There needs to be a documentary on the rise and fall of Todd Philip's Joker duology.
I had a feeling this movie was going to be bad when I read that the supporting actors and members of the crew weren't allowed to use the on set bathrooms.
I was hoping it was at least so bad it’s interesting but it’s more just bad and depressing. Maybe you and some friends could have a pirated movie night just to laugh at the terrible story.
I just wish we had more of Cuckoos Nest / Natural Born Killers style of movie in the vein of king of comedy and Taxi Driver, in fact, Natural Born Killers handles audience's sensationalism/accountability better than this movie. Everyone wants to say "its underrated because nobody understood it" when really, this movie isn't about the Arthur Fleck that we saw of the first movie, its about Martin Scorsese and Comics and people who were still with Arthur all the way to the end. There could have been more people in Arkham who related to Arthur than any rioter in the streets of Gotham, a big strongman cellmate, an acrobatic patient, as Arthur meets all of them and meets the staff that dehumanizes these *people* they become a true circus, only further cementing that we are not Arthur and our life experience is incomparable to the Joker and that we are wrong to associate ourselves with the likes of him as his new identity finally grants him friends and family in form of people who are evem more bizarre than and having a "McMurphy" level epiphany that there Jokers in this world, and theres everybody else... Prison riots are a very real thing, and they had to keep Charles Manson safe from people who wanted to be famous from killing him all the time. By the end of the first film, Joker is sitting there thinking of a joke right before he kills his doctor for no fucking reason and the joke is that Arthur Fleck is now the very uncaring monster that created him, the hilariousness of it all being that a victim like him is now the orchestraster of the exact trauma allowed for this identity-less individual such as himself to transform. Arthur sees the funny side, and his deluded mind was able to craft this story and manipulate you to into wanting to see the city burn down with him, which why everybody assumed the first was "dangerous." The second movie somehow doubles down and undoes this completely by having Arthur create another eviler him, but completely foregoes what the 1st ending represented whether it was a delusion or not. Joker was a narcissistic sociopath who stopped caring about innocent people. he had no tie, no memory suppressed or not that meant anything to him, Joker was the legitimate personality because despite it being a self-appointed monicker, it was the only actual reality he had. There's a point in the last courtroom scene with Lee where he ends his reign as the Joker by saying "Arthur Fleck who?" and thats where it all became clear. Thats what Joker Folie á Duex was about, undoing our expectations of what the Joker is and how Arthur doesnt even compare, i wonder if in a combination of Todd getting older and realizing GG Allen and John Wayne Gacy were *people* with Todd seeing Arthur up there with Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson and thinking "yeah this is fucked up I fucked up." There was so much indication of Joker being his shadow I thought the revelation is that Joker and Arthur were always one and the same and if anything, Arthur never really existed. I don't even disagree that this movie might be a fun little clever conclusion to the story of Arthur Fleck. I actually like the real Joker killing him a lot it feels potent and raw, but I don't think it was worth rehashing what I liked about the original for the sake of subverting expectations, i would have rather seen Arthur evolve, which even if you like the second one, it devolved him. First movie Arthur has a bid for attention and gratification, the second movie Arthur couldn't give a fuck about what the world thinks of him... and when it you lay it all out like this video, its like you made a movie about a shooter and then made a sequel where you pretend the shooting never happened because everyone liked the shooter too much. The next step should've been to make Arthur even more apprehensible, that subversion would have made sense and been more in line with the first without having to backtrack. If Arthur did something so gross, or perhaps reveal to audience that he stalked and murdered the subway guys with no indication of self defense emphazing that maybe Arthur has been lying to us the whole time, that would made me lose my shit. In a way it reminds me of Telltale's Joker, in the first season he's written with elusiveness and deception with a deep hidden knowledge of the lore, then in season 2 he's a lovable sympathetic buddy who is affected/created by your actions. My point being that Arthur was originally written to be the Joker, but the second movie retcons that for the sake of unearned commentary and subversion, it's different from Telltale because at least Telltale DID have John go all the way. All in all, it was alright, but it wasn't about kindness, healthcare, or any of the important issues. It was about itself the first one and some general idea of psycho killer sensationalism. I thought more people would have gotten it about the r*pe stuff, of all ways to make Arthur stop believing in himself, you pull some OZ shit? I got the joke, it was just funnier when you said it the first time.
They should've just let the Joker 1 movie be a solo movie and it's own continuity. Don't try to connect it to anything and let it BE its own entity. Joker 1 was an art masterpiece. They can "try" to erase the first movie they want because it appealed to "the wrong" audience or whatever, but I know how to do it too. I too can pretend things do or don't exist and I alone choose what I do or don't enjoy from any IP. In my mind, Joker 2 doesn't exist and I just enjoy the first movie when ever I choose to give it a re-watch. I'll determine what I want to watch on my own time, thanks. Woke people or nut job movie suites like the Joker 2 guys ain't got jack on me.
I thought it coulda been so good it just felt like after every tense moment there was a fucking song 😭 and at first it was cool but then it was SUPER overdone and I got annoyed with it. But those court room scenes really had the room glued to the screen. Harley was good until the whole plot twist about her and then it just felt like a complete waste solid 4/10 movie. You could tell they just really didn’t wanna make it 😭
I liked the first film, but it wasn’t a comic book movie imo, they even admit Arthur was never the joker, it’s just a good movie using dc characters as a skin suit
Say what you all want about Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League, I personally don't hate it, I think the gameplay is fun, and the story is pretty good. Not a fan of the Justice League deaths, but they are fixing that with the DLC. But Suicide Squad isn't a perfect game, definitely not, but it is a masterpiece in comparison to the atrocity that is Joker 2.
I believe what killed this sequel was that it tried to connect it with the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight. And the joker film should have been just a standalone.
That's only part of it. They got startled when it somehow appealed to the "Wrong crowd", apparently. Because now it doesn't JUST matter if it makes billions in profit, now it has to be SPECIFIC in who it makes the profit from. Those corporate morons in Hollywood really STILL think The Woke crowd/mythical "Modern Audience" are enough to sustain profits on their own.
You got shit opinions. As a a film joker 2 is just bad. The only good thing was the cinematography. But as a sequel the stakes are way less interesting than the first one. As a musical it has bad pacing and songs that get old fast. As a court drama nothing surprising happened and nothing of value is learned so we're left with a shitty recap. You gaslit yourself into being a contrarian. Because it's just a bad film.
One fact I never see commentary on: Phoenix always refused to make sequels. But he relented and did his first sequel... with *THIS* movie? You'd think if you were gonna sell out on one of your famous principles, you'd sell out for something worth it....
Oh yeah, I mean people are allowed to like it and I'm very happy for them. I'm not here to make them change their mind, but I have a lot of reasons I don't care for it.
@@darthmanta3890 sharing the same opinion is not based the movie isn’t remotely bad. I simply don’t know what people expected from a character like Arther (Joker). I assume people are as delusional as he was.
@@1kbmahanNobody cares what is or is not “based.” Having a different opinion than the majority isn’t any more impressive. Sorry for your head injury but I hope you recover soon.
I'm tempted to just go back to my worst videos and construct a meta-narrative that they were supposed to be bad. I was making them from an angle of chaos all along. If you enjoyed this video, you might like our conversations over on our let's play channel, here - www.youtube.com/@realdegenerateplays or we also have an RPG channel here - www.youtube.com/@DJayRPG
Personally the way the director didn't even want to make the movie in the first place I think he just wanted to flip the fans off like the first one
Joker 2: Insulting garbage that should have never been made. So happy it flopped, bad movies shouldn't make money.
The Joker 2 was a bad movie
This movie was one of the most disappointing experiences if my life.
So was the first joker
@@christaylor7916Nah
Yeah, but its just shit on the wall!🤣🤣🤣😂😂one of the best sayings I've ever heard!!!💯😆😆😆😆😆
It spits in the face of any fan
Joker 2 was such a trainwreck of a movie in my opinion
Wow... Damn. Good to know there's still some down to earth people in the industry that can admit when a movie sucks or not.
Yeah. It feels good to know there's still SOME people out there who are actually simply PASSIONATE about their craft and product and not just worried about were the next "quick buck" is coming from. I feel like if we had more people like THEM in Hollywood, movies over the last 15 years or so would've looked like a totally different animal.
All they had to do was adapt Mad Love to the big screen and they would have made a fortune
Thats awesome that you know who Tim Dillon is. Big fan of you both.
I hated the original simply on the principle that Arthur Fleck's Joker did not resemble the Joker whatsoever. However, ignoring that, it was actually trying to explore some genuinely important themes.
However, what p!sses me off most about this film is that it actively spits on the fans of the original. This is like Charles Dickens writing A Christmas Carol 2 and having Scrooge burn in H3LL while watching the events that the ghost of Christmas yet to come showed him come to pass. May Joker 3 be written by Scott Cawthon, y'know, someone who knows how to make a good story while showing love towards the fanbase.
You missed the point twice, he ain’t the Joker and you should root for him
Joker 2 was one of the most boring cinematic experiences in my life. The musical numbers were the least concerning part about the movie, it was the regression of Arthur Fleck's character and tore down everything the first movie established. The movie failing at the box office is astounding since MORBIUS made more money than Joker 2.
There needs to be a documentary on the rise and fall of Todd Philip's Joker duology.
I love that thumbnail. “Does he know” vibes
Sexter Morgan "It's over, he knows"
7:33 Damn, that's really funny but really sad. "This is going to bomb, man."
I had a feeling this movie was going to be bad when I read that the supporting actors and members of the crew weren't allowed to use the on set bathrooms.
If I'm ever touching the movie, It's gonna be pirated and at 1.5 speed
I was hoping it was at least so bad it’s interesting but it’s more just bad and depressing. Maybe you and some friends could have a pirated movie night just to laugh at the terrible story.
Not fast enough to escape the pain.
So Joker was basically Todd Philips version of "Freddie got fingered"
I just wish we had more of Cuckoos Nest / Natural Born Killers style of movie in the vein of king of comedy and Taxi Driver, in fact, Natural Born Killers handles audience's sensationalism/accountability better than this movie.
Everyone wants to say "its underrated because nobody understood it" when really, this movie isn't about the Arthur Fleck that we saw of the first movie, its about Martin Scorsese and Comics and people who were still with Arthur all the way to the end.
There could have been more people in Arkham who related to Arthur than any rioter in the streets of Gotham, a big strongman cellmate, an acrobatic patient, as Arthur meets all of them and meets the staff that dehumanizes these *people* they become a true circus, only further cementing that we are not Arthur and our life experience is incomparable to the Joker and that we are wrong to associate ourselves with the likes of him as his new identity finally grants him friends and family in form of people who are evem more bizarre than and having a "McMurphy" level epiphany that there Jokers in this world, and theres everybody else... Prison riots are a very real thing, and they had to keep Charles Manson safe from people who wanted to be famous from killing him all the time.
By the end of the first film, Joker is sitting there thinking of a joke right before he kills his doctor for no fucking reason and the joke is that Arthur Fleck is now the very uncaring monster that created him, the hilariousness of it all being that a victim like him is now the orchestraster of the exact trauma allowed for this identity-less individual such as himself to transform. Arthur sees the funny side, and his deluded mind was able to craft this story and manipulate you to into wanting to see the city burn down with him, which why everybody assumed the first was "dangerous."
The second movie somehow doubles down and undoes this completely by having Arthur create another eviler him, but completely foregoes what the 1st ending represented whether it was a delusion or not. Joker was a narcissistic sociopath who stopped caring about innocent people. he had no tie, no memory suppressed or not that meant anything to him, Joker was the legitimate personality because despite it being a self-appointed monicker, it was the only actual reality he had. There's a point in the last courtroom scene with Lee where he ends his reign as the Joker by saying "Arthur Fleck who?" and thats where it all became clear. Thats what Joker Folie á Duex was about, undoing our expectations of what the Joker is and how Arthur doesnt even compare, i wonder if in a combination of Todd getting older and realizing GG Allen and John Wayne Gacy were *people* with Todd seeing Arthur up there with Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson and thinking "yeah this is fucked up I fucked up." There was so much indication of Joker being his shadow I thought the revelation is that Joker and Arthur were always one and the same and if anything, Arthur never really existed.
I don't even disagree that this movie might be a fun little clever conclusion to the story of Arthur Fleck. I actually like the real Joker killing him a lot it feels potent and raw, but I don't think it was worth rehashing what I liked about the original for the sake of subverting expectations, i would have rather seen Arthur evolve, which even if you like the second one, it devolved him. First movie Arthur has a bid for attention and gratification, the second movie Arthur couldn't give a fuck about what the world thinks of him... and when it you lay it all out like this video, its like you made a movie about a shooter and then made a sequel where you pretend the shooting never happened because everyone liked the shooter too much.
The next step should've been to make Arthur even more apprehensible, that subversion would have made sense and been more in line with the first without having to backtrack. If Arthur did something so gross, or perhaps reveal to audience that he stalked and murdered the subway guys with no indication of self defense emphazing that maybe Arthur has been lying to us the whole time, that would made me lose my shit. In a way it reminds me of Telltale's Joker, in the first season he's written with elusiveness and deception with a deep hidden knowledge of the lore, then in season 2 he's a lovable sympathetic buddy who is affected/created by your actions. My point being that Arthur was originally written to be the Joker, but the second movie retcons that for the sake of unearned commentary and subversion, it's different from Telltale because at least Telltale DID have John go all the way.
All in all, it was alright, but it wasn't about kindness, healthcare, or any of the important issues. It was about itself the first one and some general idea of psycho killer sensationalism. I thought more people would have gotten it about the r*pe stuff, of all ways to make Arthur stop believing in himself, you pull some OZ shit?
I got the joke, it was just funnier when you said it the first time.
They should've just let the Joker 1 movie be a solo movie and it's own continuity. Don't try to connect it to anything and let it BE its own entity. Joker 1 was an art masterpiece. They can "try" to erase the first movie they want because it appealed to "the wrong" audience or whatever, but I know how to do it too.
I too can pretend things do or don't exist and I alone choose what I do or don't enjoy from any IP. In my mind, Joker 2 doesn't exist and I just enjoy the first movie when ever I choose to give it a re-watch.
I'll determine what I want to watch on my own time, thanks. Woke people or nut job movie suites like the Joker 2 guys ain't got jack on me.
I thought it coulda been so good it just felt like after every tense moment there was a fucking song 😭 and at first it was cool but then it was SUPER overdone and I got annoyed with it. But those court room scenes really had the room glued to the screen. Harley was good until the whole plot twist about her and then it just felt like a complete waste solid 4/10 movie. You could tell they just really didn’t wanna make it 😭
Very disappointing sequel
I liked the first film, but it wasn’t a comic book movie imo, they even admit Arthur was never the joker, it’s just a good movie using dc characters as a skin suit
A script has to be greenlit and everyone has to read it prior to filming so yeah, of course they knew it was bad
Say what you all want about Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League, I personally don't hate it, I think the gameplay is fun, and the story is pretty good. Not a fan of the Justice League deaths, but they are fixing that with the DLC. But Suicide Squad isn't a perfect game, definitely not, but it is a masterpiece in comparison to the atrocity that is Joker 2.
I’m a life long Joker fan since I watched Batman ‘89 in the theatre. I will NEVER watch Joker 2
I believe what killed this sequel was that it tried to connect it with the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight. And the joker film should have been just a standalone.
The mere fact that ppl think this is true shows what a failure the narrative was lol
@ataridc It was obvious that they tried to loosely tie it to the Dark Knight.
That's only part of it. They got startled when it somehow appealed to the "Wrong crowd", apparently. Because now it doesn't JUST matter if it makes billions in profit, now it has to be SPECIFIC in who it makes the profit from.
Those corporate morons in Hollywood really STILL think The Woke crowd/mythical "Modern Audience" are enough to sustain profits on their own.
@@CatsClaw44no they didn’t? Tf
How?How?How?
I just cant believe Todd Phillips wasnt emgarassed to drop this movie 😂
This movie was good, I REFUSE to be gaslit into believing this was bad.
Also Matt Reeves’s Batman was mid. FIGHT ME INTERNET😤
I’m glad we found Todd Phillips burner account.
You got shit opinions. As a a film joker 2 is just bad. The only good thing was the cinematography. But as a sequel the stakes are way less interesting than the first one. As a musical it has bad pacing and songs that get old fast. As a court drama nothing surprising happened and nothing of value is learned so we're left with a shitty recap. You gaslit yourself into being a contrarian. Because it's just a bad film.
One fact I never see commentary on: Phoenix always refused to make sequels. But he relented and did his first sequel... with *THIS* movie?
You'd think if you were gonna sell out on one of your famous principles, you'd sell out for something worth it....
1:27 i personally liked it i don't think It was better than the first one, i could see why people don't like it tho
Oh yeah, I mean people are allowed to like it and I'm very happy for them. I'm not here to make them change their mind, but I have a lot of reasons I don't care for it.
It was a great movie,,you hating cuz it’s based on reality and doesn’t have a happy ending
I haven’t seen the movie so I have no opinion on it
I guess it’s bad if you consistently think it’s bad because everyone copy and paste opinions like bots
That's called psychological projection: it's when you describe your own faults to others through your ridicule.
It was bad
@@darthmanta3890 He's literally describing his own thought process; that's why he's stupid enough to think it's good.
@@darthmanta3890 sharing the same opinion is not based the movie isn’t remotely bad. I simply don’t know what people expected from a character like Arther (Joker). I assume people are as delusional as he was.
@@1kbmahanNobody cares what is or is not “based.” Having a different opinion than the majority isn’t any more impressive. Sorry for your head injury but I hope you recover soon.
I didn't like the first one.