@@vernm6189 honestly I was unsure as well. I felt like the state should be doing this audit as the guy admitted they never woulda found this without the reporting by this news station
@Superduper DavidMiorgan Must be an employee, the rv stands for just what people think it does. I guess they thought they could act as an automobile dealership. Yes, it will be hitting the fan.
Some people don't care about being criminally prosecuted, as long as they can rip tons of people so they can live their lavish lifestyles at other people's expenses.
I know what that companies doing! They are trying to find a sneaky way to scam money by ballooning customers RV's prices they can't pay, repo their RV, then resell it for max used prices so they can get free bonuses for themselves.
Exactly calling them “Smudges” would indicate there was smeared ink. That is not at all the case. In every contract they showed, they were clearly and obviously typed over. That is obviously fraud since the customer had no idea this happened and did not initial the changes.
And because those typeovers were on the copies held by the buyer then they were there when they signed the contracts. They didn't read what they were signing and I'll bet it just might stand up in court if that is the only thing wrong with the contract. YOU ALWAYS READ A CONTRACT BEFORE YOU SIGN IT!!
General RV was probably hoping people would not be able to pay that last payment and then general RV would repossess the RV and sell it again...very corrupt
@@ruskiryan2398 If you know of a bank "smudging" the numbers like this, you should report them. If someone knowingly takes out a loan with a balloon payment, that is on them.
Most likely, they would be forced to refinance, and that might be difficult depending on how much the RV is worth. If you owe $64k but the vehicle is worth $50k, you'd still need to come up with the difference to refinance it.
I wonder if the authors are looking to avoid issues like slander or defamation. After seeing the update where this double data thing is on multiple contracts, this is a deliberste act. At the very least it is very unethical and obviously at least a tool to lure people into signing something with a different understanding than the reality.
@@brinkee7674 MVED is a law enforcement agency. They carry guns and a badge. The head said they would turn everything over to the District Attorney, he is the one that make the ultimate decision but MVED can audit every file in the dealership and close them down if they think it is warranted. When I was a dealer, you didn't want MVED doing an audit on your dealership even if you were straight. They use microscopes.
@@jimrobison114 As long as it goes to the DA and they do something. I know they are a LE agency but they are limited on what they can investigate and charge someone for. I'm not sure fraud is within their scope of charges
My daughter just bought an RV from them and her neighbor . I just called her after watching this video and forwarded the video to her . Told her to pull her paperwork and the paperwork from the bank and compare the numbers .
@@beeallen-hine1421 Yeah. I have a new one. After they sold it...it was see ya...then it's junk & the manufacturers driving service trashed it. My sales documents are a whole separate issue
I do love how people jump to conclusions with only a lope sided news cast. Aside from my earlier comments regarding the bank not accepting an altered contract another question is the news said this happened between 2013 and 2015. Okay, the 10 year term is not close to ending so what caused these people to all of a sudden request a copy of the banks contract? Just not adding up. Much more information is needed here.
@What Ever Only one problem, I am a very strong Republican and Trump supporter. I just don't like to convict someone without all the evidence. If that is how you want the justice system to work then heck, get rid of the courts and just accuse someone of something and shot them on the spot.
@What Ever How and why you brought Politics into this is very telling. You seem to want to focus on Politics rather than the topic at hand. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
This kind of thing happened at a car dealership to my friend. She tested and agreed to buy a car but when she had signed the papers and the car was supposedly washed and brought out....IT WAS A DIFFERENT CAR, same color more miles. Little did they know she was a police officer. She called her Captain and he called them. She got the right car. They thought she was dumb cause she was a female alone. BEWARE LADIES!
This is a bit different but its still fraud. Most people probably wouldn't catch its a different car if they didn't pay attention. You could easily get around this by simply taking a picture of the VIN of the car you're buying. I haven't bought new car in a while but I do believe they need to put the VIN on the loan paperwork. Unless she paid cash, but they still need a bill of sale with all that information on there. If the VIN doesn't match on the paperwork, that should be a red flag. The beauty about the VIN is that you don't have to remember every detail of the car, like how many miles ,etc.
This happened to me, but they reduced my trade in value by 2k on the financing document. I thought my payments were going to be $400, and it came back to $435. I ended up going to the Missouri State Attorney General, and they researched all contracts, and asked the people that did business with these clowns how much they got for a trade in. What they were told was not on the document...and very, VERY few people caught it. If they did, these contracts never made it to the state...needed for tax revenue purposes. I was asked to testify in court, but it never got that far...MASSIVE fine for the dealership.
Maybe people should invest in a $99.00 TI Calculator.. It even shows you how to calculate any payment.. Just put in the interest rate, total price, and how many months you want to finance it.. It never lies..But it will catch liars...
it's not smudges, it's fraud. It's no different if you sign a receipt at a restaurant and leave an a $10 tip and someone changes it to $1000. Pretty sure this falls under the TILA and these people need to get an atty, and contact the atty general ASAP.
@@hamsterama you could dispute charges with the bank. The bank would want to see a receipt that you signed. The irony is that you're more protected from fraud at a restaurant than buying a house on wheels. This type of crap is basically what caused the crash of 2008 with housing, but not as many people are out going to buy RVs, and this seems to be isolated to General RV, unless other RV dealerships are doing the same thing.
@@joemann7971 Banks want you to first dispute the charge with the vendor. In the case with the altered receipt above, my co-workers called the restaurant, and the restaurant reversed the overcharges, no problem. By the way, the whole RV industry is shady. Not just the dealerships, but the manufacturers as well. If you haven't already done so, you should check out Steve Lehto's channel. He's a lemon law lawyer in Michigan. He had a video or two a few months back, where he says that RV's are not covered under the lemon law. So, someone could buy a brand new $100,000 RV, it could have serious mechanical issues within a few months, and you're basically screwed. So, the lesson is, don't buy an RV. Most RV's end up parked in storage most of the year anyway, and it would work out cheaper just to stay in a hotel.
@@hamsterama the whole $1000 tip would likely never happen unless you just signed the receipt and left everything blank. If your food was $45 and you left a $10 tip, your total is $55. $1000 tip would come out to $1045. Maybe if they wrote the tip for $1010 then they could also add another $10 in front of the $55, but it would still be extremely suspicious to have a $1000 tip on a $45 meal. The point is that we have more safeguards with a restaurant than they do with this RV people. The only thing protecting you is basically you reading your own contract I've also heard manufactures cut corners and have quality issues with RVs. RVs don't have the same lemon laws that protect other vehicles, like cars. They are treated very similar to commercial vehicles.
Although I left in 2014, I use to work at an RV dealership whose closest competitor was a General RV store and I heard so many horror stories about them it wasn’t funny. I was the Warranty Administrator at my dealership, I did all the paperwork for repairs, ordered parts and so on. One time I had a guy call me to tell me his fifth wheel had broken some spring shackles and really busted up everything. He wanted to know if he could have it towed to us. Before I could ask him his make and model he told me he was on I-75 literally across the highway from General RV, he had a model that they sold, but because he didn’t buy it from them they told him he couldn’t bring it to them. I asked our General Manager about it and he said of course, bring it in! It got towed in, and I ended up ordering both axles, springs and components as well as new wheels and tires. The guy was from Canada and we’re in Michigan, by the way. The guy ended up driving to Indiana himself to pick up the parts so we would get them faster. Our technicians rebuilt the RV and we had a very happy camper!
When Fox 13 broke the first story I went this RV dealer's web site. EVERY RV over $50k advertised monthly payments for 240 months. Their small print said all loans over $50k are for 240 months. Nothing was said about any balloon payment which would be illegal to not disclose. After this second follow story broke I went to their web site to see if they changed anything. Sure enough they did. They removed all payments being advertised and changed everything where now they just show a retail price with a red line through it and below that it says make an offer. They removed all the financing advertisement from every listing. This SCREAMS major cover up mode to remove evidence that would work against them.
I think no bank would finance a 240 month loan on an RV so to make the loans look like 240 they rewrite the loan for 119 payments at the 240 rate and the second half of the loan as a balloon payment.
This could be that the people did not qualify for the loan at the time with the interest rate given to make the loan, So the RV people falsified the Balloon to qualify them to get the sale? Crooks either way..
Please keep us updated! Hopefully it’s only in Utah, we’ll be checking ours for the one we purchased a year ago in Florida. This story is making the rounds in the General RV community! This is real journalism, thanks for what you’re doing!
However, the buyers had the marks on the COPIES which means they were on the original when they signed it. If that is the only thing wrong with the contract then it may hold up in court. Always read the contract.
@@Reneelwaring they were NOT on the original contract though , they were sent a copy with changed numbers , if you watch the video it clearly shows 240 not the 119 the Dealer is trying to get away with, the White Original copy had the proper numbers on and the Math shows what the customer agreed to pay, on the copy the Math doesn't add up to what the Dealer says they owe, they DID read the contract the Dealer changed the numbers, it WILL NOT hold up in Court, it's 100% FRAUD.
I believe they were calling it smudges just to distinguish that issue from the other problem of faulty math. I don’t think they meant to imply that they were innocent ‘smudges’, bc they pointed out that they were all the same. This is a perfect example of why freedom of the press is so important. Without this local news investigation, it probably wouldn’t have come to light. A good reminder to support local news outlets, which are really struggling right now in a lot of places. There are companies out there trying (and succeeding) to take over local stations, and putting out generic news instead of investigative reporting locally. (I think Sinclair is one of them) Great job on this reporting!
We had a similar issue with a General RV location here in Michigan. We were looking at a used fifth wheel that they had listed for $7,995. We had $5,000.00 cash and a pop up on the table. When the guys finished up their "math" they told that we would be financing $5,995.00. We were like, hey hold on a minute. A trailer you are selling for $7,995.00 and I'm offering to give you five grand cash and a trade and you're wanting us to finance $6,000? Well, that's some hinky math. Needless to say we walked out and never went back. I tell this story to everyone that tells me that they're looking to buy an RV. Stay away from General RV...
Although its sketchy. In reality there is a minimum finanace amount and financing that little amount of the difference may not qualify. Either put is on a credit card or finance the whole thing and pay a chunk off and yes there will be some charges regardless. Having a high dowpayment on somthing less than 10k is not an easy sell
I finally realized who they are, they are just north of point of the mountain. I went there one and my sleaze alarm went off with the first person I met.
General RV has been doing shady things ever since they opened up in Utah. Last time they were on the news, they were selling "flooded RV's" with rusted generators. Another place to boycott.
It's not only in Utah. General RV has a deserved reputation for manipulating contracts. Added fees, contracts that don't add up, etc etc. I would never purchase anything from a General RV and I advise anyone who is considering them to be very careful before deciding to buy from them.
The western states are the prime targets for all the flood garbage that comes out of the Mississippi drainage system, Tornado Alley, and the Hurricane States every year.
BTS Army Mom, I know, right? They appear to be in their 70's and they're taking out 20 year loans. When they go to sell it after 10 years, they'll be under water with it.
I ran the numbers on the $121,807.63 @3.99% for 20 yrs. and the payments are correct. What's incorrect is the number of payments. It should be 240, not 119 and one balloon payment. It was cut to a 10 yr. The remaining principle is that final balloon payment. All they need to do is correct the number of payments to 240 with no balloon payment at the end. Then everything would be correct.
@@johnhwang339 yes, but the RV is now worth less than the remaining balance so not good collateral. They probably had a rough time getting any bank to buy a twenty year loan in the first place.
@@stevek8829 Right now, with the way RV's are selling, they would have to be literal trash before they wouldn't be worth the amount owed on them. Have you seen how hard it is getting for people to buy RV's right now? Everyone seems to want one and they are selling like "hotcakes." We personally got our loan at our CU and the dealer was a bit upset that we did. Our CU doesn't give the dealer that added "bonus" when they sign someone up for a loan that banks seems to give for that privilege. Dealer kept trying to get us to go with another bank, we said, NOPE, our CU or no deal. We didn't "need" the RV, we wanted it and that was in our favor, need vs want.
While theres no way to know how federal regulators will proceed, I can assure you that the lenders they foisted altered loan documents to will demand their loans back from the dealer. It isnt going to end well for that company if a few hundred million on loans gets called due.
@@Fox13now What these RV owners need to realize is that they have a copy of the original contract, which means those numbers were on the contract when they signed it. Shifty yes. Legal? They signed it, I'm sure without reading it. If the smudges were the only problem then I would say that General RV might be able to put up a fight with this in court and the RV owner's may be liable but the other issues and discrepancies can and should be addressed by the state. I am not a lawyer, but contracts are absolute. I sure feel sorry for those that got caught up in this.
@@Reneelwaring I'm sure you've see the prior related video, but these people signed for (or meant to sign for) a 20 year loan on a RV. Clearly, these two aren't very bright to begin with.
News anchor asks “Can you even fathom a reason why that would happen”? MVD enforcement guy had that “yeah --and I’m gonna Lock somebody’s ass up for it” look on his face 😂😂
The big takeaway here is that you NEVER, EVER use internal financing at any dealership for cars, motorcycles, RVs, boats, etc.. You get your own financing setup ahead of time with your bank or a credit union (credit unions usually have the best rate). You get to then keep the negotiations focused on purchase price, not "how much do you need your monthly payment to be". ALL dealerships are out to scam as much money as possible from you by playing with the numbers and backing into the highest monthly payment you'll accept.
They likely plan on just trading it in and continuing to let the debt roll over and over until they die and their family ends up having to sort it out. Some people see the RV payment as a mortgage since they live in it.
Here is the thing that bothers me (other than these people being cheated), General RV is sticking to their guns even after the Utah regulatory board started an investigation. This would have been a perfect time for them to scapegoat an old employee and let the customers know that they would be honoring the deal that most of the paperwork says they made. It baffles me the arrogance of these people.
All RV dealers commit fraud. 99% of them charge you for things that come standard on your RV. TVs, air, solar, backup cameras and many other things. Know exactly what the rv package is before you sign. If it comes with things solar hookup, tinted windows and stuff, do not let them charge you for them! There is an rv dealer in Michigan (Haylett RV) that has put out a few videos that tells you what to watchout for. If you're looking to buy, you really should check them out first!
Wow they knew they were doing this but they knew that by the time the customer seen that it would be so many years down the road that it would be up to them to figure it out.. SHADY I hope the company Hass to cover all those charges
The question I ask myself is why would anyone in their right mind agree to 240 months of payments for anything? How do you know you won't have a medical issue in 160 months, or a pandemic in 87 months or a death in 200 months? What if you lose your job in 60 months and still have 180 payments left while the value of the motor home has dropped below your loan value? Are you insane? When you look at the contracts displayed they are even charging different interest on different loans, so customers are paying different amounts for the same period. Buy a tent or a trailer. The lower maintenance costs alone will save you a fortune.
The problem with RVs is that every time you go anywhere with them, it's like they are in a continuous 5.0 earthquake for the duration of the trip. If you travel much with them, they are literally tearing themselves apart.
The customer should have an exact signed copy of the document that was sent to the lender! And if the Trth and Lending box numbers are based on repayment of a 20 year amortized loan, then it is, indeed a 20 year loan!
One has to wonder, is it just this dealership, or is it all of General RV. I was considering purchasing an rv from them next year, but I'm seriously questioning it now.
This is, I suspect, a company wide problem with General RV. We almost had a similar problem here in Michigan with them. Go anywhere else for your RV purchase. It's just a damn shame that they are the only dealer in Michigan that sells Grand Design. We wanted a 27RL for the longest time but we won't buy from these folks ever!!
Before crucifying the dealer owner, lets have an investigation of the finance office. Need to interview them first. This seems like something instigated in that department. JMO.
@@ghost307 yes they are ultimately responsible for those they hire. But did the owner actually know this was going on. There are many dealer owners that are not on premises all the time, especially if they have multiple properties. Just saying. Gather all the facts before you hang them.
@@MikeyMK-ct7jr IF you own the Business and are getting the money from FRAUD then it's YOUR responsibility , the employees aren't going to be getting that cash, the OWNER will and it's on them, of course they knew, they're financially benefitting from it, there's your FACT, lol if you think the employee is going to change the payment to put it in their name, it would show that on the Forged document it does not, it's still payable to General RV , not Karen Whatshername, THEY KNEW and funny how every "smudge" was in their favor.
I'm so thankful that. you guys broke this story.. This is really going to help stop these crooks from doing this to anyone else. I hope someone at RV General goes to jail for this. 2013 to 2021 is a long fkin time to be stealing $100,000's of dollars from innocent, hard working (mostly senior) people.
You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff those companies do to people...if you knew our story. Lord have mercy on those who willingly throw people under the bus, especially those in need. Thank you Fox for helping so many people! God bless you!!
All these RV Places do this. Camping World in Draper did the same thing to me. I think America's First Credit Union is the one changing the agreements.
Since all of the customers with this issue bought their RVs from the exact same location, it's not the entire company that needs to be investigated--it's that location. And since it seems to be limired to a 3-year period (2013--2015), I'm willing to bet it was one employee, probably someone in their finance department who thought he could make himself look good to the company by fudging contracts like this, and adding the balloon payments, to gain a lot of money for the company in a short period of time, hoping that nobody would notice until it was too late. If it were me, I would start with the salesperson, and see if it was the same on all 4 contracts. If not, see if they share the same finance manager. I guarantee you that somewhere in the chain of command, there was one person in common between all of the suspect contracts. When you find the common name, you've likely got your culprit.
I could not get the Ocala store to answer an email stating I was ready to purchase. Apparently had no time for me. Matt's mailbox was full, so that didn't work either. Lucky me.
"Smudge'...is actually an overstrike. Smudges can be mistakes, but not not so many exactly the same. So the overstrikes appear to be a form of fraud, and general RV needs to be held accountable.
@@johnjerman3421 Here it is from the legal dictionary: (n.) A suffocating smoke. (n.) A heap of damp combustibles partially ignited and burning slowly, placed on the windward side of a house, tent, or the like, in order, by the thick smoke, to keep off mosquitoes or other insects. (n.) That which is smeared upon anything; a stain; a blot; a smutch; a smear. (v. t.) To stifle or smother with smoke; to smoke by means of a smudge. (v. t.) To smear; to smutch; to soil; to blacken with smoke. There you have it.
@@jonwhick3073 If the value of the RV is still worth what the balloon payment is due, with this current market might be the best time to get out if they can
The banks/lenders taking on these loans need to be held accountable as well! The banks should have caught these discrepancies, requiring the applications to be resubmitted correctly before honoring the loan.
They got the idea to scam people from Simeon in GTA5, where they hide these inflated balloon payments in a mountain of paperwork that they know a person can’t come up with, then they repossess whatever it is, then sell it again so they keep making money off the same product. I would solve the problem like Michael did in the game lol!
6:27 "General RV insists none of their employees have done anything wrong." I have a theory of what may be going on here. (No, I am not defending General RV) Nearly every dealer I have done business with in the last 10 years has a separate company running the finance department. Yes, the "finance manager" sits in an office at the dealership, but he does not get a paycheck from the same company as the salesman. A purchaser sometimes pays a "non-negotiable finance fee" or sometimes called a "delivery fee" when buying a vehicle; this fee is how the finance manager feeds his family. Because, the dealership does not pay him a dime. After all, he "is not an employee of the dealership". Therefore, I have a feeling, as the investigators peel back the onion on this case, they will find that the party committing the fraud is actually a shell company created for the dealership in an attempt to isolate the dealership from liability in these sort of cases. I predict all the paperwork the "dealership" has will be 100% in order with no smudges. All the fraudulent paperwork will be in the office of the "finance manager". (How convenient) If my theory is correct, one would have to know the laws of Utah to determine whether the dealership will face civil or criminal liabilities from the State of Utah for this fraudulent act of their business partner in this case. However, the "finance department" appears to be in a heap of trouble, and dead to rights at both the state and federal level.
I have 46 years of experience in motor vehicle related businesses in Utah, working for some of the largest dealer chains and in my experience all finance people were employees of the dealership. I have never seen or heard of a third party handling the financing. It may happen but it is not the way it is usually done.
I don't think it's any secret that dealers make most of their money from signing up buyers to finance (for which they get a very generous upfront payment for from the finance company) but I'm amazed that people of possibly limited means, unless they are going to live in it fulltime, would buy an RV with all its associated fuel, registration and maintenance costs and pay $200,000 for the privilege. And a lot of RVs are bolted together from very cheap components sourced from all over the world and then made to look expensive with a few gimmicks added.
You are better off buying a new diesel pickup and building a trailer yourself. You can make sure the materials are all quality stuff and save tens of thousands even while building it to suit your needs perfectly. Especially if you can take the time to find sales or scrap a wrecked rv or three.
@@stuckgrenadepin.225 Correct. I wouldn't have the skills to do it myself but I remember when my father retired years ago he did a smaller scale build on a pickup (new) and it served him for years. It was good retirement project for him and any specialist help he needed was provided by his cronies at the local bar.
It’s definitely commission based and most places use a salesperson to show and execute a deal but then finance will tack on warranties, which come in all shapes and sizes as well as protection coats which cost the dealer almost nothing in comparison to what the customer is charged. So many ways to screw the public, even without lying to them. Employees are taught the methods and many are quite good at maximizing a sale. RV’s in general are all over priced. All of them. Worse than personal vehicles as once you drive it off the lot, you just lost thousands. It’s sick.
TIME FOR THEM TO BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS! The State Employee here now saying :I appreciate your story, the first thing I did when I got in the office the next morning was.........." HE IS THE SAME ONE who told General RV he planned to close the inquiry in the first victims case. NOW there are MANY VICTIMS!
Or if they can't point to one person for fraud they need to fine the ever loving piss out of that company and audit every last one of the contracts done by them!
Problem is that the company will just get a fine while the customers will get screwed but if it were a citizen instead of a business, that person would spend decades in prison for fraud.
Well the contracts were changed from 220 months to 119 months and that’s why they got a huge balloon payment I mean who can afford a huge balloon payment of $80,000 or more
This is clearly blatant fraud, maybe an old employee from those years. But the corporation is ultimately responsible. Can't enforce a fraudulent contract! GENERAL RV got paid the time the contract was bought by the banks/credit unions, so it will end up being between the customer and finance company to resolve it. Criminal charges should be brought against General RV for sure!
If we the consumer pulled this, we’d be arrested for fraud. If we altered the length of our loans TRUST ME they would never let this slide.
Yeah but if we cant hold businesses accountable, they might pack up and leave and then whos gonna pay for the bribes? HUH?!
@@steverico3090 😂🤣😂
They weren’t smudges, they were fraudulently altered.
Bingo, we have a winner. smudges my ass
And poorly altered at that. They need to be put under the prison.
@@onlyu7308
Under the prison!? Do you mean a dungeon or buried?
@@Therapistinthewhitehouse 🤔
@@onlyu7308
😂
They need to do a Audit on this company, from the 1st RV sold till today.. !!
YOUR RIGHT, AND TAXES.
That Is Called A Forensic Audit
who is they????
@@tmwall25 THEY - the people in the Video who this happened to. They get a Lawyer to get the Audit done, you couldn't figure that out?
@@vernm6189 honestly I was unsure as well. I felt like the state should be doing this audit as the guy admitted they never woulda found this without the reporting by this news station
Oh man, this is going to snowball. If the allegations are true, General RV is in big trouble, civil and criminally.
@Superduper DavidMiorgan Must be an employee, the rv stands for just what people think it does. I guess they thought they could act as an automobile dealership. Yes, it will be hitting the fan.
Yup
Some people don't care about being criminally prosecuted, as long as they can rip tons of people so they can live their lavish lifestyles at other people's expenses.
@@edg8535 Like that dude did when he ripped off Chrysler for over 8 million dollars.
I know what that companies doing! They are trying to find a sneaky way to scam money by ballooning customers RV's prices they can't pay, repo their RV, then resell it for max used prices so they can get free bonuses for themselves.
Those aren’t smudges, those are typeovers.
Yes they are! Clearly it was intentional since it was on so many contracts.
Calling them smudges is a bit overly polite, but maybe for legal reasons they are calling them smudges.
Exactly calling them
“Smudges” would indicate there was smeared ink. That is not at all the case. In every contract they showed, they were clearly and obviously typed over. That is obviously fraud since the customer had no idea this happened and did not initial the changes.
Yup I agree 100%
And because those typeovers were on the copies held by the buyer then they were there when they signed the contracts. They didn't read what they were signing and I'll bet it just might stand up in court if that is the only thing wrong with the contract. YOU ALWAYS READ A CONTRACT BEFORE YOU SIGN IT!!
General RV was probably hoping people would not be able to pay that last payment and then general RV would repossess the RV and sell it again...very corrupt
You mean the same way Banks do it ?
EXACTLY! And that’s the long game they were playing. Time to look at who worked that location from 2013-15
Except RVs depreciate faster than that. Good theory though.
@@ruskiryan2398 If you know of a bank "smudging" the numbers like this, you should report them. If someone knowingly takes out a loan with a balloon payment, that is on them.
Most likely, they would be forced to refinance, and that might be difficult depending on how much the RV is worth. If you owe $64k but the vehicle is worth $50k, you'd still need to come up with the difference to refinance it.
Why are you calling it a SMUDGE ? A SMUDGE is A SMEAR ! This is 2 different Overlapping Offset Numbers !
I wonder if the authors are looking to avoid issues like slander or defamation.
After seeing the update where this double data thing is on multiple contracts, this is a deliberste act.
At the very least it is very unethical and obviously at least a tool to lure people into signing something with a different understanding than the reality.
Peaceful protests
Slander and libel .. thats why
Smudge is a legal term determining the terms and conditions
Oh man this is getting good. Cant wait to hear the outcome. Bet they'll blame an employee that's no longer employed.
They'll ALL BLAME ALEX COX...Lori Vallow/Daybells sister...he's dead after murdering his sisters 2 kids and her husband #3 AND also ..or is it #6?
Always the case the ex employee.
This needs to be investigated by the District Attorney not Motor Vehicles. MV issues fines, the DA issues charges
@@brinkee7674 MVED is a law enforcement agency. They carry guns and a badge. The head said they would turn everything over to the District Attorney, he is the one that make the ultimate decision but MVED can audit every file in the dealership and close them down if they think it is warranted. When I was a dealer, you didn't want MVED doing an audit on your dealership even if you were straight. They use microscopes.
@@jimrobison114 As long as it goes to the DA and they do something. I know they are a LE agency but they are limited on what they can investigate and charge someone for. I'm not sure fraud is within their scope of charges
If they have stores in other states, the media in those states need to follow up on this story locally.
There are issues
fish around the internet even here on you tube there are stories. especially in florida
@@MsLillith999 Yeah, but a lot with them. Plus check litigation on the net
My daughter just bought an RV from them and her neighbor . I just called her after watching this video and forwarded the video to her . Told her to pull her paperwork and the paperwork from the bank and compare the numbers .
@@beeallen-hine1421 Yeah. I have a new one. After they sold it...it was see ya...then it's junk & the manufacturers driving service trashed it. My sales documents are a whole separate issue
Class action lawsuit and plenty of prison time is in order.
I do love how people jump to conclusions with only a lope sided news cast. Aside from my earlier comments regarding the bank not accepting an altered contract another question is the news said this happened between 2013 and 2015. Okay, the 10 year term is not close to ending so what caused these people to all of a sudden request a copy of the banks contract? Just not adding up. Much more information is needed here.
@@sitchad Shut up you loser.
@What Ever Only one problem, I am a very strong Republican and Trump supporter. I just don't like to convict someone without all the evidence. If that is how you want the justice system to work then heck, get rid of the courts and just accuse someone of something and shot them on the spot.
@@freebird0147 Oh you silly boy you. Did you not get your Fruit Loops this morning?
@What Ever How and why you brought Politics into this is very telling. You seem to want to focus on Politics rather than the topic at hand. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
This kind of thing happened at a car dealership to my friend. She tested and agreed to buy a car but when she had signed the papers and the car was supposedly washed and brought out....IT WAS A DIFFERENT CAR, same color more miles. Little did they know she was a police officer. She called her Captain and he called them. She got the right car. They thought she was dumb cause she was a female alone. BEWARE LADIES!
The US is so corrupt.
@@spacelemur7955 you must not have ever lived in another country, they are all corrupt.
This is a bit different but its still fraud. Most people probably wouldn't catch its a different car if they didn't pay attention.
You could easily get around this by simply taking a picture of the VIN of the car you're buying. I haven't bought new car in a while but I do believe they need to put the VIN on the loan paperwork. Unless she paid cash, but they still need a bill of sale with all that information on there. If the VIN doesn't match on the paperwork, that should be a red flag.
The beauty about the VIN is that you don't have to remember every detail of the car, like how many miles ,etc.
This happened to me, but they reduced my trade in value by 2k on the financing document. I thought my payments were going to be $400, and it came back to $435. I ended up going to the Missouri State Attorney General, and they researched all contracts, and asked the people that did business with these clowns how much they got for a trade in. What they were told was not on the document...and very, VERY few people caught it. If they did, these contracts never made it to the state...needed for tax revenue purposes. I was asked to testify in court, but it never got that far...MASSIVE fine for the dealership.
@@dennissvitak5475 Well done! You fought back beautifully!🌹🥂
This is one of the reasons why I get my own financing on anything through my own financial institution.
Indeed
@@justustwo1457 They get kickbacks.
Maybe people should invest in a $99.00 TI Calculator.. It even shows you how to calculate any payment.. Just put in the interest rate, total price, and how many months you want to finance it..
It never lies..But it will catch liars...
@@WizzRacing You can Google auto loan calculator, mortgage calculator, etc for free.
@@justustwo1457 if you finance through the dealer they make more money. That’s why they push so hard to finance through them.
it's not smudges, it's fraud. It's no different if you sign a receipt at a restaurant and leave an a $10 tip and someone changes it to $1000. Pretty sure this falls under the TILA and these people need to get an atty, and contact the atty general ASAP.
So damn right taking advantage of people.
Slightly related, but this is why I only pay cash at restaurants. I know people who's receipts were altered to increase the tip.
@@hamsterama you could dispute charges with the bank. The bank would want to see a receipt that you signed. The irony is that you're more protected from fraud at a restaurant than buying a house on wheels. This type of crap is basically what caused the crash of 2008 with housing, but not as many people are out going to buy RVs, and this seems to be isolated to General RV, unless other RV dealerships are doing the same thing.
@@joemann7971 Banks want you to first dispute the charge with the vendor. In the case with the altered receipt above, my co-workers called the restaurant, and the restaurant reversed the overcharges, no problem. By the way, the whole RV industry is shady. Not just the dealerships, but the manufacturers as well. If you haven't already done so, you should check out Steve Lehto's channel. He's a lemon law lawyer in Michigan. He had a video or two a few months back, where he says that RV's are not covered under the lemon law. So, someone could buy a brand new $100,000 RV, it could have serious mechanical issues within a few months, and you're basically screwed. So, the lesson is, don't buy an RV. Most RV's end up parked in storage most of the year anyway, and it would work out cheaper just to stay in a hotel.
@@hamsterama the whole $1000 tip would likely never happen unless you just signed the receipt and left everything blank. If your food was $45 and you left a $10 tip, your total is $55. $1000 tip would come out to $1045. Maybe if they wrote the tip for $1010 then they could also add another $10 in front of the $55, but it would still be extremely suspicious to have a $1000 tip on a $45 meal.
The point is that we have more safeguards with a restaurant than they do with this RV people. The only thing protecting you is basically you reading your own contract
I've also heard manufactures cut corners and have quality issues with RVs. RVs don't have the same lemon laws that protect other vehicles, like cars. They are treated very similar to commercial vehicles.
This is fine investigative journalism. Kudos.. And good luck to those involved!
Thank you Tim, appreciate the kind words
Although I left in 2014, I use to work at an RV dealership whose closest competitor was a General RV store and I heard so many horror stories about them it wasn’t funny. I was the Warranty Administrator at my dealership, I did all the paperwork for repairs, ordered parts and so on.
One time I had a guy call me to tell me his fifth wheel had broken some spring shackles and really busted up everything. He wanted to know if he could have it towed to us. Before I could ask him his make and model he told me he was on I-75 literally across the highway from General RV, he had a model that they sold, but because he didn’t buy it from them they told him he couldn’t bring it to them. I asked our General Manager about it and he said of course, bring it in! It got towed in, and I ended up ordering both axles, springs and components as well as new wheels and tires. The guy was from Canada and we’re in Michigan, by the way. The guy ended up driving to Indiana himself to pick up the parts so we would get them faster. Our technicians rebuilt the RV and we had a very happy camper!
When Fox 13 broke the first story I went this RV dealer's web site. EVERY RV over $50k advertised monthly payments for 240 months. Their small print said all loans over $50k are for 240 months. Nothing was said about any balloon payment which would be illegal to not disclose. After this second follow story broke I went to their web site to see if they changed anything. Sure enough they did. They removed all payments being advertised and changed everything where now they just show a retail price with a red line through it and below that it says make an offer. They removed all the financing advertisement from every listing. This SCREAMS major cover up mode to remove evidence that would work against them.
Nice work Columbo !! 😊
I think no bank would finance a 240 month loan on an RV so to make the loans look like 240 they rewrite the loan for 119 payments at the 240 rate and the second half of the loan as a balloon payment.
This could be that the people did not qualify for the loan at the time with the interest rate given to make the loan, So the RV people falsified the Balloon to qualify them to get the sale? Crooks either way..
That is what I was thinking.
Yes much like reverse mortgage of today. Pay low payments but it's only interest
@@Allen4AU that's not a reverse mortgage.
Good job Fox 13! You are helping people and making a real difference in the lives of people who could be just ignored by big companies like this!
i guess the local news has gotta be good for something more than just the weather forecast.
Thank you Steven
Please keep us updated! Hopefully it’s only in Utah, we’ll be checking ours for the one we purchased a year ago in Florida. This story is making the rounds in the General RV community! This is real journalism, thanks for what you’re doing!
Thank you Catherine
Totally agree
Somebody's going to JAIL!!!!!
"The employees have done nothing wrong..." Yeah... it was probably the OWNER of General RV!!!!!
Take them to court a jury will easily convict them of fraud that company should pay the loan off in full just for the mental abuse!
A clear reason to ALWAYS strike out any form of blank lines in a contract before signing.
However, the buyers had the marks on the COPIES which means they were on the original when they signed it. If that is the only thing wrong with the contract then it may hold up in court. Always read the contract.
@@Reneelwaring they were NOT on the original contract though , they were sent a copy with changed numbers , if you watch the video it clearly shows 240 not the 119 the Dealer is trying to get away with, the White Original copy had the proper numbers on and the Math shows what the customer agreed to pay, on the copy the Math doesn't add up to what the Dealer says they owe, they DID read the contract the Dealer changed the numbers, it WILL NOT hold up in Court, it's 100% FRAUD.
I believe they were calling it smudges just to distinguish that issue from the other problem of faulty math. I don’t think they meant to imply that they were innocent ‘smudges’, bc they pointed out that they were all the same.
This is a perfect example of why freedom of the press is so important. Without this local news investigation, it probably wouldn’t have come to light.
A good reminder to support local news outlets, which are really struggling right now in a lot of places. There are companies out there trying (and succeeding) to take over local stations, and putting out generic news instead of investigative reporting locally. (I think Sinclair is one of them)
Great job on this reporting!
We had a similar issue with a General RV location here in Michigan. We were looking at a used fifth wheel that they had listed for $7,995. We had $5,000.00 cash and a pop up on the table. When the guys finished up their "math" they told that we would be financing $5,995.00. We were like, hey hold on a minute. A trailer you are selling for $7,995.00 and I'm offering to give you five grand cash and a trade and you're wanting us to finance $6,000? Well, that's some hinky math. Needless to say we walked out and never went back. I tell this story to everyone that tells me that they're looking to buy an RV. Stay away from General RV...
Although its sketchy. In reality there is a minimum finanace amount and financing that little amount of the difference may not qualify. Either put is on a credit card or finance the whole thing and pay a chunk off and yes there will be some charges regardless. Having a high dowpayment on somthing less than 10k is not an easy sell
I guess that General RV place is going down...just pray they don't pop up here in Oregon!
I finally realized who they are, they are just north of point of the mountain. I went there one and my sleaze alarm went off with the first person I met.
"Sleaze alarm", LOL!
The investigation is only being done because other victims came forward. Last week the the MVE cleared the company. Strength in numbers!
?
MVED did not clear the company
it is only 2 day ago news how come you mention last 7 days ago , ?? last April was the discovery of this matter, government have not get involved yet
Right, so it’s bogus. The official governmental department should have done their own legitimate research!
@@Adam.Herbets this story has been going on for awhile. It’s probably the date it was uploaded to RUclips.
General RV has been doing shady things ever since they opened up in Utah.
Last time they were on the news, they were selling "flooded RV's" with rusted generators.
Another place to boycott.
It's not only in Utah. General RV has a deserved reputation for manipulating contracts. Added fees, contracts that don't add up, etc etc. I would never purchase anything from a General RV and I advise anyone who is considering them to be very careful before deciding to buy from them.
This story needs to go viral so absolute transparency is all over this.
The western states are the prime targets for all the flood garbage that comes out of the Mississippi drainage system, Tornado Alley, and the Hurricane States every year.
20 year loan on a vehicle? I'm getting stressed just thinking about it
BTS Army Mom, I know, right? They appear to be in their 70's and they're taking out 20 year loans. When they go to sell it after 10 years, they'll be under water with it.
You aren't getting equity for 15 years. Easy. Older folks that retire and travel the country are giving debt to their descendants.
Luxury items, for sure.
Why would anyone take out a 20 year loan on a large depreciating asset, unless you were very wealthy?!
Well over 100 grand motor homes? It’s a mortgage lol
They were sold a 20 year loan. The dealer/bank adjusted the loan payment to get their $$. Easy case of Fraud.
I ran the numbers on the $121,807.63 @3.99% for 20 yrs. and the payments are correct. What's incorrect is the number of payments. It should be 240, not 119 and one balloon payment. It was cut to a 10 yr. The remaining principle is that final balloon payment.
All they need to do is correct the number of payments to 240 with no balloon payment at the end. Then everything would be correct.
@@johnhwang339 yes, but the RV is now worth less than the remaining balance so not good collateral. They probably had a rough time getting any bank to buy a twenty year loan in the first place.
@@stevek8829 Right now, with the way RV's are selling, they would have to be literal trash before they wouldn't be worth the amount owed on them. Have you seen how hard it is getting for people to buy RV's right now? Everyone seems to want one and they are selling like "hotcakes."
We personally got our loan at our CU and the dealer was a bit upset that we did. Our CU doesn't give the dealer that added "bonus" when they sign someone up for a loan that banks seems to give for that privilege. Dealer kept trying to get us to go with another bank, we said, NOPE, our CU or no deal. We didn't "need" the RV, we wanted it and that was in our favor, need vs want.
I'm sure General RV will get a slap on the wrist! But I hope they are held accountable! SKETCHY AF!!
While theres no way to know how federal regulators will proceed, I can assure you that the lenders they foisted altered loan documents to will demand their loans back from the dealer. It isnt going to end well for that company if a few hundred million on loans gets called due.
Depends on their DNC donations
@Rollo_Tomasi so mormons are more corrupt than Democrats? Didn't think that was possible. Are you high? Just asking
People need to read their paperwork
Nice job Fox 13!
Thank you!
NICE TO HAVE R E A L N E W S For A Change... NOT FAKE NEWS !!!
@@Fox13now What these RV owners need to realize is that they have a copy of the original contract, which means those numbers were on the contract when they signed it. Shifty yes. Legal? They signed it, I'm sure without reading it. If the smudges were the only problem then I would say that General RV might be able to put up a fight with this in court and the RV owner's may be liable but the other issues and discrepancies can and should be addressed by the state. I am not a lawyer, but contracts are absolute. I sure feel sorry for those that got caught up in this.
@@Reneelwaring I'm sure you've see the prior related video, but these people signed for (or meant to sign for) a 20 year loan on a RV. Clearly, these two aren't very bright to begin with.
If all the paperwork says 20 year loan except 1 box how can they enforce the one box?!
We stopped and looked at an RV there last summer. Felt dirty so we left. So glad we did!
News anchor asks “Can you even fathom a reason why that would happen”?
MVD enforcement guy had that “yeah --and I’m gonna Lock somebody’s ass up for it” look on his face 😂😂
Looks like General RV dig their of own grave. If two or more sales contracts showed similar typo, you know they're pulling some scams.
The big takeaway here is that you NEVER, EVER use internal financing at any dealership for cars, motorcycles, RVs, boats, etc.. You get your own financing setup ahead of time with your bank or a credit union (credit unions usually have the best rate). You get to then keep the negotiations focused on purchase price, not "how much do you need your monthly payment to be". ALL dealerships are out to scam as much money as possible from you by playing with the numbers and backing into the highest monthly payment you'll accept.
Wow!! That's awesome blessings for helping people!!💕💕
Jail time and all loan payments rendered null and void.
Absolutely despicable. Anything less than prison time for everyone involved would be a travesty.
Thanks for showing this and the details. So disappointing to see this and the impact it’s having on these folks.
Throw them all in prison, bunch of crooks. Why hasn't he news interviewed Gen RV live on TV
They tried. General RV is refusing to do anything live.
Please get a team of auditors involved! Just one won't be enough. AMAZING STORY!
FORENSIC AUDIT ... ALL THE DEALERSHIPS NATION WIDE ... !!!
The real problem here is people are financing a RV for 20 years, are they crazy? They will be lucky if it lasts 10 years.
We're at 25 years and running on the one in my family.
That’s not the real problem. The real problem is fraud and corruption.
They likely plan on just trading it in and continuing to let the debt roll over and over until they die and their family ends up having to sort it out. Some people see the RV payment as a mortgage since they live in it.
@FOX13 WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE A FOLLOW UP?
CRICKETS
CHIRP CHIRP
One contract with different numbers may be an accident, but the same type over on so many is clearly intentional.
Here is the thing that bothers me (other than these people being cheated), General RV is sticking to their guns even after the Utah regulatory board started an investigation. This would have been a perfect time for them to scapegoat an old employee and let the customers know that they would be honoring the deal that most of the paperwork says they made. It baffles me the arrogance of these people.
Cheating RV company
All RV dealers commit fraud. 99% of them charge you for things that come standard on your RV. TVs, air, solar, backup cameras and many other things. Know exactly what the rv package is before you sign. If it comes with things solar hookup, tinted windows and stuff, do not let them charge you for them! There is an rv dealer in Michigan (Haylett RV) that has put out a few videos that tells you what to watchout for. If you're looking to buy, you really should check them out first!
Wow they knew they were doing this but they knew that by the time the customer seen that it would be so many years down the road that it would be up to them to figure it out.. SHADY
I hope the company Hass to cover all those charges
Or they banked on the customer trading or selling before the balloon was found!
The question I ask myself is why would anyone in their right mind agree to 240 months of payments for anything? How do you know you won't have a medical issue in 160 months, or a pandemic in 87 months or a death in 200 months? What if you lose your job in 60 months and still have 180 payments left while the value of the motor home has dropped below your loan value? Are you insane? When you look at the contracts displayed they are even charging different interest on different loans, so customers are paying different amounts for the same period. Buy a tent or a trailer. The lower maintenance costs alone will save you a fortune.
RVs can be so problematic, let alone the crooked industry.
The problem with RVs is that every time you go anywhere with them, it's like they are in a continuous 5.0 earthquake for the duration of the trip. If you travel much with them, they are literally tearing themselves apart.
Not just general RV all financial contracts.
Taking my business someplace else!!!!!! thanks for the tip
Watching this all the way from the UK.
As my little kids blame our ghost named “I didn’t do it.”
General RV may have the same ghost in their dealership too.
When I was a kid, the ghost was named "not me" :)
“Not me” and “I don’t know” did a lot of stuff in our house growing up...
😂😂😂
The customer should have an exact signed copy of the document that was sent to the lender! And if the Trth and Lending box numbers are based on repayment of a 20 year amortized loan, then it is, indeed a 20 year loan!
One has to wonder, is it just this dealership, or is it all of General RV.
I was considering purchasing an rv from them next year, but I'm seriously questioning it now.
You just have to make sure you carefully look over the contract. These people were clearly defrauded.
@@mydogsioux And, really, for all we know, these contacts were all "fixed"by someone who's no longer there.
Unless you also like standing under an ice cold shower tearing up $50 bills DON'T.
This is, I suspect, a company wide problem with General RV. We almost had a similar problem here in Michigan with them. Go anywhere else for your RV purchase. It's just a damn shame that they are the only dealer in Michigan that sells Grand Design. We wanted a 27RL for the longest time but we won't buy from these folks ever!!
Fraud pure and simple! Arrest them and close them down!
Before crucifying the dealer owner, lets have an investigation of the finance office. Need to interview them first. This seems like something instigated in that department. JMO.
Finance works for the owner so they are either responsible or complicit.
@@ghost307 yes they are ultimately responsible for those they hire. But did the owner actually know this was going on. There are many dealer owners that are not on premises all the time, especially if they have multiple properties. Just saying. Gather all the facts before you hang them.
@@MikeyMK-ct7jr If he doesn't know what's going on in his dealership he has no business owning one.
@@MikeyMK-ct7jr IF you own the Business and are getting the money from FRAUD then it's YOUR responsibility , the employees aren't going to be getting that cash, the OWNER will and it's on them, of course they knew, they're financially benefitting from it, there's your FACT, lol if you think the employee is going to change the payment to put it in their name, it would show that on the Forged document it does not, it's still payable to General RV , not Karen Whatshername, THEY KNEW and funny how every "smudge" was in their favor.
I'm so thankful that. you guys broke this story.. This is really going to help stop these crooks from doing this to anyone else. I hope someone at RV General goes to jail for this. 2013 to 2021 is a long fkin time to be stealing $100,000's of dollars from innocent, hard working (mostly senior) people.
You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff those companies do to people...if you knew our story. Lord have mercy on those who willingly throw people under the bus, especially those in need. Thank you Fox for helping so many people! God bless you!!
All these RV Places do this. Camping World in Draper did the same thing to me. I think America's First Credit Union is the one changing the agreements.
They probably put these loan documents through a Dominion copy machine.
😐😐😐😑😑🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Maga
Since all of the customers with this issue bought their RVs from the exact same location, it's not the entire company that needs to be investigated--it's that location.
And since it seems to be limired to a 3-year period (2013--2015), I'm willing to bet it was one employee, probably someone in their finance department who thought he could make himself look good to the company by fudging contracts like this, and adding the balloon payments, to gain a lot of money for the company in a short period of time, hoping that nobody would notice until it was too late.
If it were me, I would start with the salesperson, and see if it was the same on all 4 contracts. If not, see if they share the same finance manager. I guarantee you that somewhere in the chain of command, there was one person in common between all of the suspect contracts. When you find the common name, you've likely got your culprit.
They were already sued for breach of contract in 2019. Check "Carrigg v. Gen. R.V. Ctr."
Thinking the credit union was in on it too... if not more.
I could not get the Ocala store to answer an email stating I was ready to purchase. Apparently had no time for me. Matt's mailbox was full, so that didn't work either. Lucky me.
I live in Ocala, FL and have heard sketchy things about the one here too. I suggest buying used. Too many ways to be scammed by these asshats!!
I wish they'd stop calling it a smudge. This isn't a mere smudge. It's intentional fraud.
"Smudge'...is actually an overstrike. Smudges can be mistakes, but not not so many exactly the same.
So the overstrikes appear to be a form of fraud, and general RV needs to be held accountable.
Smudge is a legal term determining the terms and conditions
@@johnjerman3421 Here it is from the legal dictionary:
(n.) A suffocating smoke.
(n.) A heap of damp combustibles partially ignited and burning slowly, placed on the windward side of a house, tent, or the like, in order, by the thick smoke, to keep off mosquitoes or other insects.
(n.) That which is smeared upon anything; a stain; a blot; a smutch; a smear.
(v. t.) To stifle or smother with smoke; to smoke by means of a smudge.
(v. t.) To smear; to smutch; to soil; to blacken with smoke.
There you have it.
FRIGGIN CROOKS HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN GOING ON?????
And if you can't pay the lump sum.....does your RV get repoed? and the dealer gets to resell it.
Umm the bank would repo it bot the dealership but the bank would action it
Or they can re finance or sell it like they normally would if they knew about it
@@jonwhick3073 If the value of the RV is still worth what the balloon payment is due, with this current market might be the best time to get out if they can
@@jonwhick3073 Ya that makes makes sence, wasn't sure....
Yes, it's the collateral after all. It's probably worth less than what's still owed.
The banks/lenders taking on these loans need to be held accountable as well! The banks should have caught these discrepancies, requiring the applications to be resubmitted correctly before honoring the loan.
Who finances an RV for 20 years when they are probably going to break down before the new "owners" even get them home??
Who Finances an RV for any length of time?
You're stupid, stfu.
People that think that they are going to be dead before that happens.
The nasty clicking sound on this video was hurting my brain. Why the nasty clicking??
I hope they put together a class action lawsuit against them
Not SMUDGED! FRAUD!
They got the idea to scam people from Simeon in GTA5, where they hide these inflated balloon payments in a mountain of paperwork that they know a person can’t come up with, then they repossess whatever it is, then sell it again so they keep making money off the same product. I would solve the problem like Michael did in the game lol!
Question from a non-gamer: what did Michael do?
6:27 "General RV insists none of their employees have done anything wrong."
I have a theory of what may be going on here. (No, I am not defending General RV) Nearly every dealer I have done business with in the last 10 years has a separate company running the finance department. Yes, the "finance manager" sits in an office at the dealership, but he does not get a paycheck from the same company as the salesman. A purchaser sometimes pays a "non-negotiable finance fee" or sometimes called a "delivery fee" when buying a vehicle; this fee is how the finance manager feeds his family. Because, the dealership does not pay him a dime. After all, he "is not an employee of the dealership".
Therefore, I have a feeling, as the investigators peel back the onion on this case, they will find that the party committing the fraud is actually a shell company created for the dealership in an attempt to isolate the dealership from liability in these sort of cases. I predict all the paperwork the "dealership" has will be 100% in order with no smudges. All the fraudulent paperwork will be in the office of the "finance manager". (How convenient)
If my theory is correct, one would have to know the laws of Utah to determine whether the dealership will face civil or criminal liabilities from the State of Utah for this fraudulent act of their business partner in this case. However, the "finance department" appears to be in a heap of trouble, and dead to rights at both the state and federal level.
I have 46 years of experience in motor vehicle related businesses in Utah, working for some of the largest dealer chains and in my experience all finance people were employees of the dealership. I have never seen or heard of a third party handling the financing. It may happen but it is not the way it is usually done.
I don't think it's any secret that dealers make most of their money from signing up buyers to finance (for which they get a very generous upfront payment for from the finance company) but I'm amazed that people of possibly limited means, unless they are going to live in it fulltime, would buy an RV with all its associated fuel, registration and maintenance costs and pay $200,000 for the privilege. And a lot of RVs are bolted together from very cheap components sourced from all over the world and then made to look expensive with a few gimmicks added.
Best comment so far.
You are better off buying a new diesel pickup and building a trailer yourself. You can make sure the materials are all quality stuff and save tens of thousands even while building it to suit your needs perfectly. Especially if you can take the time to find sales or scrap a wrecked rv or three.
@@stuckgrenadepin.225 Correct. I wouldn't have the skills to do it myself but I remember when my father retired years ago he did a smaller scale build on a pickup (new) and it served him for years. It was good retirement project for him and any specialist help he needed was provided by his cronies at the local bar.
Hold up. An 8 year loan on a car would make me uneasy. One man shown is on a fixed income doing a 20 year 200k loan?
If it's commission based business or a bonus I could see a salesman doing that. But they weren't smart enough 🤣
It’s definitely commission based and most places use a salesperson to show and execute a deal but then finance will tack on warranties, which come in all shapes and sizes as well as protection coats which cost the dealer almost nothing in comparison to what the customer is charged. So many ways to screw the public, even without lying to them. Employees are taught the methods and many are quite good at maximizing a sale. RV’s in general are all over priced. All of them. Worse than personal vehicles as once you drive it off the lot, you just lost thousands. It’s sick.
@@jammindave8483 only a dumbass would sign on the bottom line then
This is a good example of good journalism and a story well done. Please continue, but now be a government watchdog, fulfill your constitutional duty.
TIME FOR THEM TO BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS!
The State Employee here now saying :I appreciate your story, the first thing I did when I got in the office the next morning was.........." HE IS THE SAME ONE who told General RV he planned to close the inquiry in the first victims case.
NOW there are MANY VICTIMS!
True investigative journalism!👍👍
thank you Warren
I think this will end up being fraud charges to more than one person and people will hopefully go to jail.
Or if they can't point to one person for fraud they need to fine the ever loving piss out of that company and audit every last one of the contracts done by them!
A 20yr note on an RV is ludicrous, the damn thing won't even last that long!
I would never do a 20 yr note!
They just used government math.
Problem is that the company will just get a fine while the customers will get screwed but if it were a citizen instead of a business, that person would spend decades in prison for fraud.
I wouldn't call that a smudge.
Smudge is a legal term determining the terms and conditions
THEY'RE NOT SMUDGES!!!! IT'S INTENTIONAL CHANGING OF NUMBERS!
"If you cant afford to pay cash, dont buy it." - Dave Ramsey
So basically you’ll never own a house then?
“God says don’t get vaccinated and vote for Trump.” - Dave Ramsey
I bet that shredder is working overtime 🤣
They knew what they were doing. Use one bank you trust as I do
I was told fraud is just a myth
Is this the same General RV that the Matt’s RV review people deal with?
Yes. Matt made a video regarding this earlier today.
Are you saying that the prime pooping position and the art deco situation happened to be part of a fraud case????
@@suzukiterminator It's the Utah location that the complaints are coming from!
@@kellyanneree3252 yeah I know it is jut a joke
Great reporting Fox 13!
Well the contracts were changed from 220 months to 119 months and that’s why they got a huge balloon payment I mean who can afford a huge balloon payment of $80,000 or more
No. It’s 240 mths (20 yrs of equal pymts) illegally altered to 119 mths of equal pymts PLUS one final balloon pymt in month 120 (10 total yrs).
This is clearly blatant fraud, maybe an old employee from those years. But the corporation is ultimately responsible. Can't enforce a fraudulent contract! GENERAL RV got paid the time the contract was bought by the banks/credit unions, so it will end up being between the customer and finance company to resolve it. Criminal charges should be brought against General RV for sure!