An Analysis of Viserys Targaryen: How Complacency Leads to Tragedy
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2023
- Warning: My Audio is a bit low on this one.
Viserys Targaryen is often seen as a good man, and good father. But being a good person doesn't make you a good leader. Especially not in Westeros.
#asoiaf #breakdown #characteranalysis #explained #hotd #houseofthedragon #film #gameofthrones 
Развлечения
6:19 *"He was held up in his room, playing with legos, until Alicent came in and told him to touch grass"* Ayo, this one got me. Alicent was a real one 😅
Negligence is the one word to describe the Kings Reign.
I much prefer to say “just the wrong guy for the job”. He was a good man who wanted to avoid conflict whenever possible, not an inherent flaw, just need a different skillset to deal with these targaryens and ruling the realm
Visery the negligent. Long may he reign XD
@@HisameArtworkI wonder what we are going to call Aegon, I think negligence will be a dream in comparison.
@@celticeyesmorriganrising929
Aegon II and Rhaenyra will prove to be... a far cry from what their status requires of ruling
Lost puppy is exactly right. Viserys is a horrible father, husband, and king. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad person but definitely not a good one. “I don’t want people to be mad at me” is not a good enough reason to make poor decisions that heavily affect people, especially a country of people, simply letting the chips fall where they may. His inaction caused Rhae to also be a poor queen with a lack of informed, good decision making skills. I said this under the Alicent video: Viserys could’ve gotten someone Valerian looking to impregnate Rhae, it was done in monarchy’s when the reigning male could not produce an heir. Viserys alienated Rhae from anyone she could’ve gone to about her struggle as heir by marrying Ali. He alienated his wife and children from everyone by choosing to treat them as second class. All of this led to unnecessary death.
Love him so much…but Viserys deserved every cut the iron throne gave him.
Honestly, if he did get a Valyrian man to hook up with Rhaenys, it would've been cemented more publicly in their 2 houses that the kids aren't Velaryon, so Vaemond still should at least get Driftmark either way.
He should've forced her to marry or be betrothed much sooner, so getting Laenor as a last resort was an ironic situation.
@@thalmoragent9344 it wouldn’t have caused more talks because things like that are not done without extreme care. If there was no one trustworthy in Laenors close family to do it then they would search for someone lowborn with similar features(dark skin and white hair) and they would probably be killed after or locked away for a few more heirs. Contrary to popular belief that genetics are cut and dry, siblings with the same parents don’t always look alike or like their parents, sometimes people look like a grandparent who’s features haven’t been seen in the family in generations. I have a friend with two dark skinned parents, she and her brother are lighter brown with light eyes and look like their fathers grandmother. Corlys knew his son was gay, even if he didn’t want to believe it, he definitely should’ve been working harder for Laenor to make an heir if his name is so important to him. Vaemond should’ve gone to hell and that’s exactly what he did. Death to all aggressively jealous second siblings.
@est95ny
No, I disagree.
Vaemond's argumentative words were 100% true. He was the rightful Heir, and Rhaenyra's bastards had no rightful claim to Driftmark. He loved his brother, just as he said. He fought on the beaches with him, and has always spoke his mind, whenever he felt strongly about something.
In the end, he was killed for boldly speaking the truth.
I understand Rhaenyra couldn't have heirs with Laenor, but at that point, that's a Targaryen problem. Vaemond should've gotten Driftmark, and whatever, let the bastards take the Iron Throne if they want, that's a Targaryen debacle. She had HUNDREDS of Lords to chose from, the fact she ended up with the ONE guy who couldn't give her heirs has got to be one of the most ironic things to happen on screen for ASOIAF. She practically walked herself into this corner. Had she married anyone else, her kids would be legitimately fathered by her husband.
Be upset with Vaemond all you want, you guys only hate him cause he doesn't let Rhaenyra have her way with absolutely everything that Viserys let's her get away with.
@@thalmoragent9344 Vaemond was arrogant and disrespectful. That is why he died. It wasn’t his place to try to claim driftmark as *his brother was not dead*. The truth of the matter is very irrelevant as the king said not to bring it up again. Not only did he bring up a subject the king decreed was off limits, and acuse the king of breaking the law, he did so in the most public way possible.
This is not a democracy, which a lot of people seem to forget. It’s funny how the rules of the realm should be upheld above all else when it comes to patriarchy, but somehow not the Monarchy 🧐.
Unless a woman is locked away, before and after conception, from men and women who have access to men; there is no way to prove paternity without a dna test. Multiple men in Westeros are show to have bastards without even noticing. I don’t see why people wouldn’t make up reasons for Rhaenyras children to be bastards regardless.
Vaemond is a jealous second son, who never had any feats his brother didn’t carry him through and never would. I don’t believe Vaemond loved his brother, I believe he loathed him and wanted everything Corlys had. He’s very much a “I could’ve did that better” kind of person but in reality he rides off his brothers prestige, which is probably the only reason he wasn’t killed sooner. He goes against Corlys multiple times in public. He never has any solutions to share, only complaints. Corlys made the house what it is, not Vaemond.
Vaemond was the one who asked for help at the stepstones behind every other commanders back. Vaemond brought up paternity DURING HIS NIECES FUNERAL. Vaemond rushed to denounce Corlys grandsons before his body was even cold. He called for mutiny against Daemond, but didn’t like the plan for Daemond to use himself as bait for a war that still *NEEDED TO BE WON for house Velaryon to survive*.
I’d also like to point out that *he was the ONLY clean one at the stepstones*.
We never even hear of him having heirs in the show, so what’s the succession plan if he hasn’t been proven to be able to produce any? If he really cared about blood and name on the throne he would’ve asked for Baela to be named heir like Rhaenys did, and reverting her last names like they were planning to do for Jace. Rhea Royce clearly didn’t change her name or give up her inheritance to lordship when she married Daemond. Neither did Jeyne Arryn, she was chosen above uncles.
Vaemond is a grubby, craven nepo baby who constantly brought shame on his family by writing checks he couldn’t cash.
@est95ny
Oh, where to begin.
People get on Rhaenyra because the act of Paternity Fraud in those cases, for multiple reasons, is against most things they stand for. Religion, culture, history, blood magic and legacy, etc. She was a fool for the way she handled her succession, plain and simple.
Vaemond didn't loathe Corlys, the only complaint he had was that Corlys, after all he had done for House Velaryon, was willing to hand it over to a bastard of House Strong... for no good reason. Sure, Vaemond didn't know if Corlys would live or not, but regardless, the succession was still an issue.
Vaemond had those complaints, yes, and his solutions and thoughts on the matter weren't the only ones. Even Rhaenys knew what Vaemond said was true, and she told Corlys not to be blind or play pretend with the matter. Rhaenyra, Harwin, Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys are the main 5 who act as if all is right in the world. It's not
Harwin's father heavily disagreed with this. Vaemond, Rhaenys, they too disagreed with this. Hell, anyone with eyes could see the kids were obviously bastards. Yeah, there aren't Paternity Tests, at least not the way we have them now, but anyone with common sense could see that Laenor was NOT the father of Rhaenyra's kids.
House Velaryon has been led by a Velaryon man on Driftmark since they came from Valyria, and anyone who practices Blood magic should be able to tell. So why now, after all this time, should it pass onto the illegitimate child of a non Valyrian house that has committed high treason to succession?
You're right, the rules of the Monarchy need to be upheld. The Monarchy itself should also have a standard to uphold. Unless, of course, you consider King's like Maegor or Aerys II to be "well within their rights" for all their atrocities committed?
Vaemond DID fight at the Stepstones, we even see him help Corlys in the final battle. Why the hell do people keep saying Vaemond didn't fight? He has a Knighthood😅
Converting last names is BS. That's not how it works, Viserys and Corlys can act stupid all they like. Rhaena and Baela are Targaryens by their father Daemon, so they have a higher claim to the Iron Throne than the Driftwood Throne. They have Velaryon blood, but are not of House Velaryon. The name goes through the male line. How many of the main houses, who gave it to a female Heir, have suddenly gotten a new line sitting on their Throne? 9 times out of 10, a female Heir is married off to a cousin, a male of their House, to keep the family name and blood in their ancestral seat.
Hell, sometimes, the heir will be a brother or a nephew, a daughter doesn't necessarily come before her uncle, as we've seen plenty of times in Westeros.
Vaemond was Corlys' brother. Laenor was dead, had no actual kids, and so the Driftwood Throne passes to Vaemond, by rights. Other Velaryons were mutilated after getting angry at Viserys for letting Daemon kill Vaemond with no repercussions.
In the books, Vaemond DOES have kids, and his granddaughter marries Aegon III, Rhaenyra's son. Vaemond's son, Daeron Velaryon, is her father. So hey, his blood ends up on the Iron Throne itself, ain't that something? 😅 couldn't get the Driftwood Throne, so he got back at the Iron one.
Never forget. Rhaneyra demanded her brother be "sharply questioned," which in ASOIAF means questioned under torture, over a child's insult. Viserys' response is to question his son....while he is literally missing an eye about the statement. "Aemond I know you missing an eye and all... but what's up with this bastard talk?"
Tbf, that is an *extremely* serious allegation for someone in their position, especially since it very clearly wasn't just some idle phrasing
Viserys tried to be a good king and father, but he failed at both. He was emotionally neglectful with Rhaenyra, and Daemon sees it and steps in, seeing it as another grooming opportunity. He was neglectful to Alicents’s children as well. He was decent when it came to the common people, but he had no foresight. If he had been putting Rhaenyra’s needs first, as future Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, he would have allowed her to give her input and help whenever she could (like with Daemon and the stolen egg)… She went and handled that shit without a problem, and without his permission. She proved herself right there. But instead, Viserys allows his small council, and himself, to disparage her, to belittle her, and make her feel like she is overstepping her boundaries. He should have had her right by his side the entire time, showing her how important being a mediator is, especially when it comes to the small folk… how important it is to take their wellbeing into consideration. The most important thing he could have done when he realized his health was slipping to the point where Alicent and Otto were handling the majority of his duties, was to abdicate his throne to Rhaenyra right then. Surely he had to know there would be fighting among his family, the other lords, and even the common folk when they ended up with a queen on the Iron Throne… He saw his wife and sons questioning the parentage of her children, Otto brought it up, as well. Then, Vaemond Valyrion lost his head over it. He HAD TO KNOW it would be a problem. He could see it with his own eyes. He knew many of the lords who pledged their houses to Rhaenyra were no longer in a position of power over their houses. Why would he think their sons would just fall in line? He should have made sure. He should’ve, but he didn’t. And because he didn’t, he helped cause the downfall of his house and their dragons.
While I agree with the majority of this analysis I personally don't think Viserys is a good person. I think he absolutely has good intentions, but he's a bad father and doesn't care enough about his younger kids. And much worse, his relationship with Alicent is gross and clearly full of neglect, ungratefulness, and marital rape. But great analysis, can't wait for more.
Calling it marital rape is excessive considering the storyworld context and the time period is based on. It's their duty and to look at it from standards from our time in our world will easily lead to misguided interpretations on the story.
@@browniebear It's an icky issue but both parties consented so marital r@p3 isn't the right word (if OP wants to see marital r@p3, watch Gone with the Wind or read about King Aerys and Queen Rhaella.)
Viserys choosing to marry a teenager when he could have anyone in the realm - and a woman who could love him back - is definitely a strike against him, probably makes him a gross guy who married out of laziness and convenience, but not a r@pist.
@@browniebear It’s definitely giving “Joyfully available”. Rape doesn’t have to be a violent act. Is it not rape because she doesn’t fight him or hide? It’s really reductive to say it’s not because of the time period. There are still cultures, religions, and people who believe that spouses should always be ‘joyfully available’ all over the world today. Holding the past under the scrutiny of todays morals does not reduce their experiences. We have the nuance to know that going to watch public executions is wild, but cloud watching gets old and they had limited forms of entertainment. Comparing shows us how far we’ve come and how much we are still the same.
@@dante6985 Thordis Evla and Tom Stranger have a book and a Ted talk about them having sex and both of them not wanting it. For years she was angry without knowing why and then realized she didn’t want it but felt pressured, when she reached out to him he said he was also feeling disgusted with himself because he also didn’t want it but felt like he should because she kissed him first, kept going and never told him to stop. They were both drunk, her more than him. It’s very nuanced and honestly such a great discussion on why consent is necessary for both parties. I know a lot of guys and girls who did it because they felt they were supposed to or were scared of what would happen if they wanted to stop mid way. Rape is not always violent and angry, sometimes it’s sweet and coercive, sometimes just an understood routine. Viserys isn’t violent and honestly the best choice given the time, that doesn’t change the fact that she was a child sold off by her father do give the king a boy or die trying. If there is no choice then it is rape. Viserys even needing to be married again for an heir when he doesn’t want to is rape. He has an heir and a spare regardless of the fact that no one wants Rhae or Daemond as monarch. They may as well have a sword to his throat.
@@est95ny I'm sorry, but words have meaning, and however you choose to rationalize it, it isn't r@p3. What you're describing is a very unfortunate circumstance, sure, but we're talking about a crime. "Oh I felt so pressured..." That's too bad, but consent was given and it wasn't by deception (like Revenge of the Nerds). Yes, it's an awful medieval patriarchy that has child-brides and no age of consent, and that's similarly an awful situation to be in, but to be honest I'm glad we live in a criminal justice system with objective measures of terms, not jurisprudence that operates on "what things feel like".
I've always said that Viserys is the true cause of the Dance. Not the Greens, not the Black's, it was Viserys first and foremost.
After that, you can argue all you want who was the second most responsible but, Viserys was just... I dunno.
Viserys and Daemon are the slightly better versions of Aenys and Maegor. Not as terrible but it was basically a less disastrous version of both starting off anyways. A weak willed Targaryen, and another one who's so strong willed to a fault.
I found his conversation with lyonel pretty amusing. Wondering if he’d be a different man if he would’ve had some hardship or war to endure… not able to realize he had an opportunity (just like Jahares) to keep the peace not just in the realm but within the house of the dragon… & he failed miserably.
When you look at it from the perspective of him ruling for the sake of prophecy not politics, dude did a great job. Keep the coffers deep, everyone mellow and vibing, the army strong, dragons hatching, targaryen blood flowing.
As a father i think he very obviously only saw one of his children as an object of affection, of love. Aegon and his siblings were politcal arrangements. and like anything else political he's not inclined to give it too much of a fuck and hand it off to more capable hands
Generally speaking rulers that like to be liked and try to please everyone tend to please no-one and it rarely ends well for them or their legacy (Louis Philippe I, Ulysses S. Grant, James Buchannan, Warren G Harding, etc)
Can you imagine how fucked Daemon would have been, if Stannis was Daemons brother and King at the time?
Daemon would've been killed or castrated
@@AaronGuest Stannis would have punished Daemon the first time he fucked up.
@@kimberlyplatt2382 Yep
@@AaronGuest Viserys pretty much cuddled Daemon.
While Robert, Stannis and even Ned would have dealt with Daemon.
Any ruler in given circumstances would struggle with Daemon, because he has 1 very important lever. Crown has none of mounted dragons which could defeat Daemon by force. Only one who comes close is Rhaenys with Meleys, but she does not take direct orders from king.
The council has chose the wrong heir, and because of it they made Westeros the battleground for war. His negligence made his daughter rebellious, his brother more impulsive, Corlys rejects his claim and supports, and grants more power to his self serving Hand.
Alicent wasn't at fault. Otto and Viserys are responsible.
I think Viserys didn't want to be king. But when it was placed upon him he did the best he could, which was Bett than most or the of the other Targaryen kings.
He in no way whatsoever did the best he could.
13:32 Yeah that's a point I think many people didn't get when they watched it.
Most Lords are of Andal/First men descent, their grandfathers voted for Viserys in the great council and they believe that sons have the right to inherit over daughters. Valyrian laws and customs have and will be a major source of friction between the crown and the kingdom.
The Baratheon's for example, helped conquer the seven kingdoms, and they have some of the greatest appreciation of what dragon warfare is like. Many lords would not side with a claimant that in their eyes has no real backing in the eyes of the law nor personal tie to them, and so they wouldn't be keen to have their friends, families and bannermen incinerated over this dispute.
I know I wouldn't want to march my men into a burning inferno full of hell lizards because of a dispute between two claimants I have no stake to.
The Baratheons didn’t help conquer. Aegons best friend a targaryen bastard named oris married the storm queen and created house Baratheon, taking over the Banner from house Durranden.
Viserys was a good father to Rhaenyra only and terrible for the rest of his children, he should’ve punished Luke and Jace in some way (maybe cutting one of Luke’s fingertips). By not doing so he not only showed clear favouritism but also made it clear that a Targaryen can harm another Targaryen unpunished, breaking the taboo established by Jaehaerys. I’m not on the green side myself, Aemond had it coming, but Viserys should’ve been fair (gouging out Luke’s eyeball is too extreme, but SOME punishment) to actually mend the family rift.
Notice how Viserys and Rhaenys even though both had claims on the throne, never crossed their minds to kill or go to war against eachother and still loved themselves as a family. I’m aware is mostly Alicent’s and Otto’s fault, but Viserys failed miserably in not teaching his family the value of filial love (the exact same value his grandparents, Jaehaerys and Alysanne taught all their direct descendant, himself and Rhaenys included).
I think it could be argued that he wasn’t complacent enough.
If he had just chilled out, and not named his daughter to be heir, eventually he was going to have another son.
It was his ambition that led to a hasty decision, having his son and daughter now fight for the throne in a historically devastating civil war.
More like if he focused on rhenerya more and just didn't remarry things would be fine but he allowed the opinion of others manipulate him .
I think he wasn't decisive enough nor competent enough to understand the gravity of those decisions he did make.
He could have abdicated to Rhaenyra - it's a thing king's can do - but instead he let his wife and hand rule in his stead while he was terminally ill.
Similarly he could have had the lords of Westeros re-vow to be loyal to Rhaenyra.
Or he could have reneged on Rhaenyra and be a semi-competent father to Aegon.
@@dante6985 I don't think abducting is a thing in westaros otherwise father's would just give up There seats to there sons when they come of age instead they have to wait till there father's die , visarys could have just not remarried and focused on strengthening rheneryas line but instead he made things harder for her by having 3 sons and expecting people to not care .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 *abdicating and yes it is, the song Jenny of Old stones is about a prince Duncan who abdicated his position to marry someone lowborn.
@@dante6985 that's not the same thing a prince can be unnamed as hier a king can't step down from being king
He should of boxed his brother for sleeping with his daughter fr😂
He could have solved all the B.S by abdication in favour of Rhaneara and welcoming her back to Kingslanding once he became too ill and the terminal nature of his condition was guaranteed
He could've the thing that he was supposed to do and acknowledged that Aegon was his heir. Especially after Rhaenyra started popping out bastards.
Rhaenrya did the least to legitimize her own claim honestly. She wouldn't even stay in King's Landing and care for her sick father. He's gonna abdicate for someone who can't even stay in the capital? If Viserys was going to take a decisive step, the answer was Aegon.
I ran over from Jami That's Me page to sub your new channel in support of her but also because I'm so thrilled to support another ADOS based analysis channel regarding HOD!!! 🐉 🐲
Definitely am a fan of your review style!! Keep up the great content!!!
small detail: on his death bed, he refers to Rhaenyra as "my only child"....
Hey man, i watched all of your videos and they are awesome. I hope you do more of that :D
Yup. Trauma bonding. I hate that shit.
Now I’m waiting on your Daemon video… don’t let me down
Can't wait for you to do the Rhaenyra analysis.
Upon my rewatch, I see Alicent being more of an enabler to Aegon and his depravity than Viseras is to Ranera. Alicent and Viseras are both oblivious.
Love this! 👏🏾👏🏾
Viserys needed to be patient. He should have stepped up conditions for birthing mothers after his wife lost 5 children in 10 years! Imagine the improvements in obstetrics and gynecology if they had prioritized the research necessary.
I just can't fully accept Viserys would cut out his son's or his wife's tongues. So for them it must be enough empty threat but who knows
@Theempryeanspeaks could you talk about helaena next
I don’t think I will. There’s not much to cover with her character, at least within season 1. Depending on what happens in season 2 I might.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks I just rip on alicent because she usurped the theorn and repeat what her father has done. She's better off in using her life insurance money and open a school for girls 👭. At least she got some Power of her own.
Idk if it's just me but the video is a little dark at times. Hope that's something that can be fixed in future videos. ❤
Did u know the younger Viserys’ actor played Ultima in FFXVI?
Poor Viserys he was just tryna be happy & build his little city piece 😭🪦☠️⚰️
Alicent was supposed to be 18 or more in the books she read to the old king idk why she is a child
As a king I think that Viserys did a very competent job, during his reign the realm prospered and there wasn't a single war, however making his daughter heir when he had three true born sons was a huge mistake.
ehh I think you give him to much credit, he picked Alicent because he wanted Alicent, he disregard his children with her because they aren’t Aemmas and therefor not worthy in his eyes and he enables Rhaenyra because she’s the only thing left of his “true love” not because he actually cares about Rhaenyra herself
If Viserys had any common sense, he'd get rid of both Daemon and Otto.
We need a daemon video
Viserys was too mych a good man and a man with common interests, he was not a tyrant, he was a man who lived his family. You need to be a bit cruel to rule a realm which i am POSITIVE Aegon will excell in.
viserys was a trash king he forgot about his other kids for the eldest who ain’t fit to rule
FUK OUT OF HERE !!! She was damn sure fit to rule however she was robbed of her birthright and let down by her dad's bad decisions.
Viserys would have been fine if daemon was his hand
He did pass the test. When his body was failing he walked to the throne to reaffirm her position. He knew of her blood line would come Azor Ahai. You’re clearly a green supporter haha however in declaring for his daughter and supporting for a woman. The road to hell is paved with good intentions but come on he set things right and the greens went and tore the realm apart anyways.
You're assuming Daemon wouldn't kill the Greens the second Viserys was dead.
He tried to bring gender equality to westeros.
Results may vary*
@@kahlilg9824 what?
Not really. Neither he nor Rhaenyra tried to support the claims of other eldest daughters, not even Baela Velaryon.