Fun fact. Yeardley Smith, a big Marillion and Fish fan, did the intro to one of Fish's tours as Lisa. Matt G gave her permission but unfortunately wouldn't allow it to be used on any published material. I would have loved to have heard that
Popoff and Pardo are at it again with Part 2 of their Fractured Bands discussion. Another interesting discussion, gents. To me, one of the ultimate discussions of this topic - outside the usual realm of SoT - would be the Beatles: the band versus the four individual careers that followed. Of course, with only 2 of the original Fab Four still alive, that discussion may not yet able to be finished but as someone who grew up with the band, it certainly is a challenge to cogitate. Another might be the various permutations of Crosby, Stills, Nash and/or Young. Thanks again for another fine episode and discussion of your choices. There ya go!
Let's say Rainbow is an extension of "In Rock" and Whitesnake is an extension of "stormbringer" and "come taste the band". Both bands hold the legacy of the different versions of DeepPurple. Good job Martin and Pete, greetings from France.
I saw Black Sabbath's Seven Star tour with WASP opening up on Long Island. The place was empty, but I mainly wanted to see WASP. I also saw Dio during the Sacred Heart tour on Long Island as well. It was a great show. Dio knew how to perform and give people their money's worth.
One of the best things about David Gilmour was his support of Kate Bush. He saw her as a great young talent and got her noticed. From a Kate Bush fan, thank you David.
Weird to ding Gilmour for limited output when Roger's is very similar. Also strange to criticize Gilmour for not wanting to play with Roger when it was Roger that quit and tried to end the band.
Finally Amused to Death receives some love. It's the Pink Floyd masterpiece that never was. Roger is an abrasive fella, I can't blame David or Nick for not wanting to work with him anymore, and it seems that when things were starting to go better, bury the hatchet and whatnot, after the Live8 reunion, Gilmour showing up at some Waters shows, things suddenly got worse. It's a shame that age don't make people wiser. Look at The Who, Townshend and Daltrey are better than ever before.
On the contrary David & Nick desperately wanted to force Roger to do more Pink Floyd albums with them because he was the goose that kept laying golden eggs for them in the form of his songwriting and overall vision, but he wanted to do his own thing as a solo artist for the foreseeable future after The Final Cut. Both David & Roger's solo albums in 84 weren't huge sellers, but did alright & Roger wanted to keep working to build his own name. Gilmour ended up having to cancel dates on his solo tour because of poor sales, and both him & Nick were eager for the Floyd money to start rolling in again and to play to huge crowds again. (already on the album before: The Final Cut, Roger had offered to put it out as a solo album, but Nick & Dave argued against it because even though David wasn't happy with the album, they still wanted the big pay day from it being released as a Floyd project) Gilmour & Mason backed by the record company threatened lawsuit against Roger should he not immediately come back to work on new Floyd material with them, which, since he didn't want to, forced him to file papers saying that he was quitting the band with the record company to get out of being sued. So with no other options for keeping the PF gravy train going, David & Nick decided to get a team of musicians / writers together and try and do an album without him, but they were taking a big risk, since they weren't at all sure that they would be able to make something that would sell & be accepted by the fans without Roger hence they kept trying to get him to come back until it became absolutely clear he wouldn't be willing to any time soon. Once they had committed to that path they got more anti-Waters publicly, affirming, particularly in David's case, that they didn't need/want to work with him anymore, & after the album had come out and it sold decently, and the tours did really well they got a lot more confident about things & cocky about it. Nick I think would have sided with anyone interested in doing more Floyd and would have worked with Waters, though by siding with David he only got two more albums and touring cycles out of it... though they were long and greatly financially successful, but I think he probably would have been up for doing it a lot more.
Trevor Marsh You'll have to be specific. I've read a lot related to Floyd over the years, and while Nick's not the main guy I've paid attention to in the band, I'm quite sure I've read that he wanted to do more Floyd in later years, and I specifically remember after Live 8 he had said he wanted to do more Pink Floyd shows, and Waters was also open to it, but Gilmour not wanting to do anymore was what held it up. He ended up putting his own band together recently which toured with a setlist of early Floyd songs. I remember reading an interview where Waters talks about speaking with Nick on the phone after he had learned that him & David were planning to continue to use the Floyd name without him, which he understandably objected to, where Roger recounted how Nick had told him essentially that on principle he agreed with Roger but with David was where his "bread was being buttered".
@@chrissimpson6017 You assert that Gilmore and were "desperate" to have Waters do more "Floyd" but according to Nick Mason that wasn't the case; I tend take more notice of what Mason says as he remained friends with both parties throughout and so is, maybe, a little more neutral than Wright or Gilmore.
I always understood that Waters wanted to stop Gilmour and Mason from carrying on using the Pink Floyd name. Waters wanted to end the band. Gilmour’s attitude was we will carry on with or without you. They did and you are entitled to your opinion on how good they are and if they should really be called Pink Floyd albums. The thing I am not sure about is where you say “Gilmour was desperate for Waters to be back in the band” Sorry but Gilmour does not like Waters and has disliked him for a long time. At the Live8 reunion he could barely hide his distaste for him. Nick Mason will probably give you a more unbiased opinion than Gilmour and Waters themselves would.
Upon listening to Part 1 and the Ozzy saga, I thought about the parting of Dio and Sabbath. Thank you for your inclusion here. Also never realized that the Roger Waters albums improved over time. I have the first 2 and love the Pros and Cons album. So Martin recommends the latter 2 which I didn’t even know existed!
These discussions have persuaded me that a key member leaving or a favourite band splitting might not be a totally bad thing. Rather than crying into our beer wishing they'd get back together maybe we should try to embrace two (or maybe more!) new acts producing music we might dig. Sure, some of it might not scale the heights of the "parent" act but there's no guarantee that they could maintain a consistent output either!
Good topic guys. What about "one band" that becomes "two bands"?! Something like... If I remember correctly there is a time when there are Great White and there is also Jack Russell's Great White, Ratt and Bobby Blotzer's Ratt and many others, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Great show as usual, I hope you'll do a part three of this. Some tips: Judas Priest vs Rob Halford, Iron Maiden vs Bruce Dickinson, Motörhead vs "Fast" Eddie and Europe vs John Norum inte '80s
I think I'd be a good "Contrarian" as my fav Pink Floyd album is "Momentary Lapse of Reason". Sure "Dark Side" & "Wish You Were" & "Meddle" are up there, but "Reason" really does it for me, I'm not a big Waters fan at all. Cheers!
I feel like I am alone out here thinking that Diamond Dave´s first three proper solo albums, released between 1986 and 1991, are all pretty awesome. I even like Steve Vai´s input on Eat ´Em And Smile and Skyscraper. Dave must been an efficient taskmaster, because he knew how to reign in Vai, unlike Coverdale who make a complete turd of an album with him in 1989.
Guys.... Idea for a show... "Greatest albums that never were" ... e.g. Lifehouse by The Who.... The planned album at the time of Who's Next as the follow up for Tommy.... When you see and listen to the running order on the Lifehouse Cronciles by Pete and the odd Spotify playlist which has most of the album on it by the Who themselves from demos and B sides etc... a massively missed opportunity... but what others are out there in your own experience from other bands.... Could also be "The greatest bands that never were" .... Where the stars didn't align for a planned line up.... Over to you guys....
Greatest album that never was has to be "Smile". Greatest Band that never was could be the supergroup of Miles, Jimi, McCartney and Tony Williams, that was suggested to Macca in a telegram that never made its way to him because he was on his farm in Scotland and not in London at the Apple office.
Album that never happened... Mad Season 2. They had material, but no lyrics bc Layne passed! Would have killed for that! Another would be the Ian Gillan/ Black Sabbath follow up to Born Again. Yet another would be the supergroup Damnocrasy with Bach, Nugent, Ian Scott and Jason Bonham.
Cool conversation about the early-80’s Black Sabbath shake-up. I was 13-14 years old when it all happened and REALLY into Sabbath at the time, as all young guitarists are to this day.
Great topic. You guys should do comparison of Ozzy, Black Sabbath and Dio after the Black Sabbath Ozzy era break up. Comparing year by year from 1980-1984 or 1985, including Ian Gillian. Ozzy vs Sabbath vs Dio vs Gillian. Basically taking your topic in this current video to another level.
Promised Land doesn’t do all that well? It sold as many copies as Mindcrime, 2 million worldwide, and over a million in America. A platinum release and their highest charting album ever - #3 on Billboard. It wasn’t as well-received as Empire for sure, but nothing they could have released in 94 could have competed with Empire, not in that musical climate. And the first album with Todd did pretty well considering, debuting at number 23 on Billboard compared to number 70 for Dedicated To Choas, the last QR with Tate. I think it did surprisingly well.
Feel completely opposite from Martin on Pink Floyd/Roger Waters. Roger Waters songs all sound similar. I DO see Martin's point on latter Floyd being "corporate rock".
I’ve heard Martin mention J Mascis before. Dinosaur Jr vs Sebadoh is an interesting story. Lou partners with another musical genius but this time is the one to keep the band after the falling out. Pretty even playing field between DJ and Sebadoh and then the reunion is huge.
Genesis. Peter Gabriel has the best 2 albums with Melt and Security. Steve Hackett has the most satisfying career. Phil Collins was the most popular, but no real trace of prog after Hello I Must be Going. 3 Man Genesis were ok, but they became safer and safer from one album to the next.
Pink Floyd. Roger Waters vs David Gilmour. Pink Floyd did it best. I like both their solo catalogs, but nothing they ever conceived can compare with what they did together with The Pink Floyd.
I agree with Steven Reid, I am not a big fan of the Syd stuff. I like Astronomy Domine. But the rest of what I’ve heard is twee, typical 60s British psych. From the early period Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun is great too, but I think thats a Waters song.
Hear hear! Agree wholeheartedly. Both Dave’s and Roger’s stuff is great, but not the same. Again I respectfully disagree with Martin…which happens a lot. But kudos to him for always bringing the heat and controversy lol
I was hopping to hear some Iron Maiden x Bruce Dickinson. Bruce released 2 amazing albums (Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding) while Maiden was in their worst moment with Blaze.
Sorry another comment regarding Geoff and Queensryche , Queensryche's set list seems to be 80% Geoff material. Actually just looked at recent set lists and they only play 2 or 3 songs from the Todd albums. Why not stand behind their material?
Scorpions Lovedrive or Uli John Roth's Electric Sun? Well, both camps lost something essential after they parted ways. Uli needed the Scorpions "traditional song structure approach" to shine and Scorpions needed Uli's creativity and songwriting to be great.
Marillion fan from the start and love those first 4 albums but i remember ( and still have) all the Kerrang interviews and Fish has definitely changed his reasons for leaving over the years. This is someone who went legal to try and steal the name from a band he joined. I think those first 4 albums are classics but there are probably 7 classics by Marillion and H and two by Fish ( first and last)
Van Halen/DLR - 5150/Eat Em And Smile (1986) - OU812/Skyscraper (1988) - A Little Ain’t Enough (1991) Iron Maiden Dickinson solo albums released during the Blaze Bayley albums. The same goes towards Judas Priest without Halford in the 90s and early 00s. Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath releasing albums in the 80s - Blizzard of Ozz/Heaven and Hell (1980) - Diary of a Madman/Mob Rules (1981) - Speak of the Devil/Live Evil (1982) Dio leaves Sabbath, Gillan replaces him - Bark at the Moon/Born Again/Holy Diver (1983) - The Ultimate Sin/Seventh Star (1986) Deep Purple Come Taste the Band/Ritchie Blackmore’s Rainbow Buckingham Nicks is another example, even though they joined the Fleetwood Mac in 1975.
Iron Maiden - Bruce Dickinson Metallica - Dave Mustaine Dream Theater - Mike Portnoy Nightwish - Tarja Flotsam & Jetsam - Jason Newsted Scorpions - Uli Jon Roth Judas Priest - Rob Halford Helloween - Kai Hansen Sepultura - Max Cavalera Deep Purple - Ritchie Blackmore The Supremes - Diana Ross
Very enjoyable feature. If you guys did want to do another episode in this series later on, then a few you might want to consider are. Judas Priest and Rob Halford Foreigner and Lou Gramm Kansas and Streets Ted Nugent and St Paradise/Whitford St Holmes Uriah Heep and Ken Hensley.
@@michaelbaucom4019 Haven't heard Proro Kaw. I do own all Steve Walsh's solo albums including Schemer Dreamer, which is my personal favourite of his. Of the Livgren albums I do own AD Time Line and Seeds of Change which are both very good.
You say Pink Floyd-one o' the big corporate bands o' all time...Let's not forget my favorite Pink Floyd albums: Piper At The Gates O' Dawn 'n A Saucerful O' Secrets...AS GOOD AS IT GETS!!!
Dio. On Dio's 5th studio album Lock up the wolves there is a 17 year old guitarist called Rowan Robertson. I used to see Rowan Robertson play live in a pub in Cambridgeshire England playing Led Zep covers and Van Halen's Eruption before he joined Dio's band
Totally surprised they didn't cover Bruce Dickinson and Iron Maiden. Dickinson's Accident of Birth and The Chemical Wedding completely blew away Maiden's The X Factor and Virtual XI. Although to this day I still believe that had The X Factor had Bruce singing on it, it would have been one of Maiden's best albums; this was the album where Steve Harris began flirting with the lengthier, more mid-tempo prog-rock songwriting that he would perfect in later years. All that was missing was Bruce.
First one that comes to mind is Max vs Sepultura. After Roots Max leaves Sepultura and forms Soul Fly. As much as I like the first 5 Sepultura albums, I could not get into Soul Fly or anything from Sepultura after Chaos AD. I have liked a song here and there from both bands and Max's other projects but I think both are a loss.
John Sykes came out with 4 solo studio albums after the last Blue Murder album. I'm surprised you didnt mention that. Out of My Tree (1995) Loveland (1997) 20th Century (1997) Nuclear Cowboy (2000)
Maybe an earlier example of Alice Cooper is John Fogerty and Creedence Clearwater Revival. Certainly Beatle-esque acrimony aplenty that went on and on, in great part because JF didn’t have control of his own material, which really was CCR.
Why not do an episode reflecting on the possibility that Ronnie James Dio might have joined Deep Purple, and how that might have worked out, and its implications for the Purple family, Sabbath, Dio, among others.
Fun show as always. I’ll say I’m in the Roger Waters camp too. It’s funny but after watching this channel for the last year or two, I never realize how many players traded bands like they traded baseball cards, or football cards since most of the names come from Europe. Any chance we might get a top five albums the represent an individual player? Like top 5 albums with John Sykes or Cozy Powell
I saw Marillion a few years ago without Fish and they were great, they had this huge intro with all lights and drum rolls and that and suddenly the whole power went dead. Then at the back of the stage, you could see some roadie frantically putting these 2 cables together and it all came back on...it was like the scene with Doc Brown at the end of Back to the Future, it was hilarious!
Outside of Animals (because the band members were still at least involved in the actual playing of the music and was a great Pink Floyd sounding album) the masterpiece of Pink Floyd music lies in the four members. Definitely not The Wall and forward. On a different note. I noticed that there have been bands or artists not known for prog or fusion that do an excellent job of it when they venture into those waters. Journey definitely started there but are still capable on the rare occasion. Believe it or not Gino Vinnelli has done some amazing fusion in the 70s. Hell he even had many of Jean Luk Ponty band members on some of his albums. There are definitely others that on occasion venture out of their perspective music formats and get adventurous.
I agree, that "The Wall" isn't as good as its 3 predecessors, but despite it being a band-break-up album à la "Let It Be" (though much more polished than LIB) and a bloated Waters vanity project, I still think, it's a great album. It captures its time period, the end of the 70s and the beginning of the 80s, super effectivly with the Ezrin production being a step in a new direction for the band.
Huh, Martin, you have me wanting to delve into Waters' solo career. For whatever reason I've never gone there. BUT.....you don't at least like Golmour's guitar tone?
All right, let's settle the real debate for all time. How do you pronounce Carmine Appice's last name. I have heard Pete pronounce it "a piece" with 2 syllables and "a piss e" with three syllables. You've interviewed the man. How does he say it?
Carmine 'A Piece' is how he pronounces it, Vinnie his brother pronounces it 'A Piss E', which is the correct way, according to Carmine. Carmine officially starting saying 'A Piece' because it seemed easier as everyone was constantly pronouncing it wrong.
Marillion did grungy sounding stuff? When was that? Nothing they have done has been grungy. I used to be a huge Fish fan, but I’ve found over the years I can’t really listen to his albums, just don’t connect to his music anymore, I prefer the direction Marillion has gone and seems the older they’ve gotten the better their albums. Fish’s last album was probably his best in awhile though, but I still don’t listen to it as much as I do Marillion.
I'm with you. I thought the Fish-era Marillion albums were great when I was younger and full of piss and vinegar, but that was almost 40 years ago. Today I definitely listen to the Hogarth-era albums way more than the Fish-era albums. I find H's lyrics and singing style more "mature", for the lack of a better word. Fish's solo stuff is very good but I find myself squarely in the Hogarth camp.
Anoraknophobia, Marillion.com, and Radiation all have strong alternative rock/grunge/ambient elements to the music. Thankfully they moved away from that on Marbles and everything after it.
@@seaoftranquilityprog grunge nowhere on those albums at all, a few harder edged rockers on Radiation, “alternative” maybe, whatever that means though, they were inspired by Radiohead for a bit around that time and they’ve always leaned in ambient directions on some of their songs on all their albums with “H”, his solo albums and collaboration albums with Richard Barbieri and Isildurs Bane definitely lean more ambient, but grunge no. Lol.
@@melwilson9531 that is exactly how I feel about the Fish era now, I listened to the remaster of “Fugazi” the other day and I hadn’t listened to that album in a long time, I remember how much that album and “Clutching At Straws” impacted me when I was young, cut to my 50’s now and I just don’t have the same connection to that era of the band, the Lyrics are even kind of embarrassing now, they are quite pedantic to me now. I agree too that “H’s” lyrics are far more mature, I still like Fish too, but not as much as Marillion with H. “F.E.A.R.” really has some of the best lyrics written by anyone in years about something we are all going through still, just listened to their new song they released today and it’s great.
In the Tate vs QR split, you left out the Sweet Oblivion albums that Tate was a part of, much more of a metal/classic QR sound. I wish Todd could've stayed in Crimson Glory: I miss that band.
I’ll take DLR band over Van Hagar any day. Sure, Roth didn’t have as much commercial success as his former bandmates. But he played with several amazing guitarists after Eddie… Steve Vai, Jason Becker, Steve Hunter, and John 5, to name a few. Eat Em and Smile and A Little Ain’t Enough are two of my favourite albums from the Roth solo catalog. The guitar work is amazing! Also, I find that Eddie’s playing was less inventive after Roth left the band. He used to do these cool instrumental tracks on the early albums (Eruption, Spanish Fly, Cathedral) but he stopped doing that when Sammy joined the band. Nothing against Sammy but they became more of a pop rock and ballad band, albeit a very successful one.
I like Born Again more than solo Dio..... but Dio was definitely on the rise, while my beloved Sabs went into a revolving cast and a lot of uncertainty. I like 7th and really like a lot of the Tony Martin catalogue(especially Idol). But at least in the US, the press and radio dropped sabbath like a bad habit. So that has to go to Dio.
It’s the best written, but his vocals sound worse on it than his other albums for some reason... even worse than on the one he recorded 25 years later.
Everyone I know considers it Roger's best post Floyd album. I think of it as his masterpiece outside of Floyd but, half the album has kind of lost it's luster for me over the years. I'm all in on the What God Wants bits and the album ends with a strong bunch of songs but, the middle of the album is loaded with corny gimmicks and guest appearances that I don't regard very highly anymore.
@@rael2099 Not even in the same league for me. Roger without Floyd serves to remind us of how great his songs would have been if he just listened to the other guys a little more and showed them a little respect.
it's not always so simple to make records once you get past a certain age. maybe david g just ran out of stream. being creative is not like waking up and punching a clock.
Totally disagree with Martin on Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters. RW’s solo stuff is meh. Those later Floyd albums are great. Throw in David’s solo stuff and it’s not close.
I actually think Your Filthy Little Mouth was THE most creative thing Dave did. It's far away from his sound, but it is good stuff. I liked a few songs on Eat Em and Smile, but pretty much didn't like Skyscraper or the next one. I did like Van Hagar, but never as much. Van Halen was a dirty one night stand with a stripper. Van Hagar was nice sweet lovemaking with the wife of 20 years. I like 5150 and Balance the best(balance the closest to having a darker vibe like fair warning). Their last song Himans Being was really good.
'I'm not a fan of David Gilmour' is an astounding statement, in my opinion. I can understand that you may not like the songs, but as a guitarist he's phenomenal. I'd also say that 'A Little Ain't Enough' by DLR is better than anything that Van Halen did after he left.
Legendary SoCal punk band the True Sounds of Liberty lose their charismatic singer Jack Grisham who is tired of punk rock and wants to pursue more gothy electronic material in the early 80s. Jack leads a few great cult bands like Cathedral of Tears, Joykiller and Tender Prey but none of them last. The remaining members of TSOL decide to do a complete aboutface and become an 80s hair metal band with bluesy singer Joe Wood. Original TSOL punk fans are in shock. The band grow their hair long, put out a few so-so Americana/metal albums and get popular in South America. Band members come and go like a revolving door and TSOL 2.0 fades away. Years later, Jack rejoins the original members(excluding their late drummer) and they have enjoyed a respectable punk revival ever since....
Fun fact. Yeardley Smith, a big Marillion and Fish fan, did the intro to one of Fish's tours as Lisa. Matt G gave her permission but unfortunately wouldn't allow it to be used on any published material. I would have loved to have heard that
This duo always delivers the goods. They have different tastes but one always hits the spot.
they also have great chemistry!
We'll see who does it better when they split up.
Popoff and Pardo are at it again with Part 2 of their Fractured Bands discussion. Another interesting discussion, gents. To me, one of the ultimate discussions of this topic - outside the usual realm of SoT - would be the Beatles: the band versus the four individual careers that followed. Of course, with only 2 of the original Fab Four still alive, that discussion may not yet able to be finished but as someone who grew up with the band, it certainly is a challenge to cogitate. Another might be the various permutations of Crosby, Stills, Nash and/or Young. Thanks again for another fine episode and discussion of your choices. There ya go!
Let's say Rainbow is an extension of "In Rock" and Whitesnake is an extension of "stormbringer" and "come taste the band". Both bands hold the legacy of the different versions of DeepPurple. Good job Martin and Pete, greetings from France.
Great analogy
You guys missed the weather report, we love that part... Friday at the Fun house, one of the best SOT shows...
I saw Black Sabbath's Seven Star tour with WASP opening up on Long Island. The place was empty, but I mainly wanted to see WASP. I also saw Dio during the Sacred Heart tour on Long Island as well. It was a great show. Dio knew how to perform and give people their money's worth.
OMG, everything Pete does with Martin is always so captivatingly interesting!! Y'all are like the Dynamic Duo!!
One of the best things about David Gilmour was his support of Kate Bush. He saw her as a great young talent and got her noticed. From a Kate Bush fan, thank you David.
Yesterday I was listening her "Aerial" album ;)
Hounds of Love is my all time favourite album
Saw John Sykes in 2005 ....he was in a Thin Lizzy tribute band opening for Deep Purple....apparently did that up until 2009
Very interesting video.Maybe Part 3 ?
This was a great episode,you two kept me riveted to the phone.thanks for the blue murder talk,got the album,didnt know there were others.thanks
Great discussion . Thanks
Weird to ding Gilmour for limited output when Roger's is very similar. Also strange to criticize Gilmour for not wanting to play with Roger when it was Roger that quit and tried to end the band.
Yep
I respect Martin's opinion but disagree on these points AND about the output. Find Gilmours stuff far superior
Finally Amused to Death receives some love. It's the Pink Floyd masterpiece that never was.
Roger is an abrasive fella, I can't blame David or Nick for not wanting to work with him anymore, and it seems that when things were starting to go better, bury the hatchet and whatnot, after the Live8 reunion, Gilmour showing up at some Waters shows, things suddenly got worse.
It's a shame that age don't make people wiser. Look at The Who, Townshend and Daltrey are better than ever before.
On the contrary David & Nick desperately wanted to force Roger to do more Pink Floyd albums with them because he was the goose that kept laying golden eggs for them in the form of his songwriting and overall vision, but he wanted to do his own thing as a solo artist for the foreseeable future after The Final Cut. Both David & Roger's solo albums in 84 weren't huge sellers, but did alright & Roger wanted to keep working to build his own name. Gilmour ended up having to cancel dates on his solo tour because of poor sales, and both him & Nick were eager for the Floyd money to start rolling in again and to play to huge crowds again. (already on the album before: The Final Cut, Roger had offered to put it out as a solo album, but Nick & Dave argued against it because even though David wasn't happy with the album, they still wanted the big pay day from it being released as a Floyd project) Gilmour & Mason backed by the record company threatened lawsuit against Roger should he not immediately come back to work on new Floyd material with them, which, since he didn't want to, forced him to file papers saying that he was quitting the band with the record company to get out of being sued.
So with no other options for keeping the PF gravy train going, David & Nick decided to get a team of musicians / writers together and try and do an album without him, but they were taking a big risk, since they weren't at all sure that they would be able to make something that would sell & be accepted by the fans without Roger hence they kept trying to get him to come back until it became absolutely clear he wouldn't be willing to any time soon. Once they had committed to that path they got more anti-Waters publicly, affirming, particularly in David's case, that they didn't need/want to work with him anymore, & after the album had come out and it sold decently, and the tours did really well they got a lot more confident about things & cocky about it.
Nick I think would have sided with anyone interested in doing more Floyd and would have worked with Waters, though by siding with David he only got two more albums and touring cycles out of it... though they were long and greatly financially successful, but I think he probably would have been up for doing it a lot more.
@@chrissimpson6017 What you've written here isn't supported by Nick Mason in his book "Inside Out" though; quite the contrary actually.
Trevor Marsh You'll have to be specific. I've read a lot related to Floyd over the years, and while Nick's not the main guy I've paid attention to in the band, I'm quite sure I've read that he wanted to do more Floyd in later years, and I specifically remember after Live 8 he had said he wanted to do more Pink Floyd shows, and Waters was also open to it, but Gilmour not wanting to do anymore was what held it up. He ended up putting his own band together recently which toured with a setlist of early Floyd songs.
I remember reading an interview where Waters talks about speaking with Nick on the phone after he had learned that him & David were planning to continue to use the Floyd name without him, which he understandably objected to, where Roger recounted how Nick had told him essentially that on principle he agreed with Roger but with David was where his "bread was being buttered".
@@chrissimpson6017 You assert that Gilmore and were "desperate" to have Waters do more "Floyd" but according to Nick Mason that wasn't the case; I tend take more notice of what Mason says as he remained friends with both parties throughout and so is, maybe, a little more neutral than Wright or Gilmore.
I always understood that Waters wanted to stop Gilmour and Mason from carrying on using the Pink Floyd name. Waters wanted to end the band.
Gilmour’s attitude was we will carry on with or without you.
They did and you are entitled to your opinion on how good they are and if they should really be called Pink Floyd albums.
The thing I am not sure about is where you say “Gilmour was desperate for Waters to be back in the band”
Sorry but Gilmour does not like Waters and has disliked him for a long time. At the Live8 reunion he could barely hide his distaste for him.
Nick Mason will probably give you a more unbiased opinion than Gilmour and Waters themselves would.
Another great listen. Surprised there has been no mention of Yes/AWBH though.
Would love to see part 3 of this as well as part 3 of mocked songs from artists.
Upon listening to Part 1 and the Ozzy saga, I thought about the parting of Dio and Sabbath. Thank you for your inclusion here. Also never realized that the Roger Waters albums improved over time. I have the first 2 and love the Pros and Cons album. So Martin recommends the latter 2 which I didn’t even know existed!
These discussions have persuaded me that a key member leaving or a favourite band splitting might not be a totally bad thing. Rather than crying into our beer wishing they'd get back together maybe we should try to embrace two (or maybe more!) new acts producing music we might dig. Sure, some of it might not scale the heights of the "parent" act but there's no guarantee that they could maintain a consistent output either!
Always look forward to Friday at the Funhouse!!!!
Hey Martin can we please hear what your top 5 bands are in order?
Good topic guys. What about "one band" that becomes "two bands"?!
Something like... If I remember correctly there is a time when there are Great White and there is also Jack Russell's Great White, Ratt and Bobby Blotzer's Ratt and many others, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Great show as usual, I hope you'll do a part three of this. Some tips: Judas Priest vs Rob Halford, Iron Maiden vs Bruce Dickinson, Motörhead vs "Fast" Eddie and Europe vs John Norum inte '80s
Always great to watch this duo!! … Greetings from Argentina
I think I'd be a good "Contrarian" as my fav Pink Floyd album is "Momentary Lapse of Reason". Sure "Dark Side" & "Wish You Were" & "Meddle" are up there, but "Reason" really does it for me, I'm not a big Waters fan at all. Cheers!
@Terrence Reardon and Friends Podcast Podcast Yes, I have but I've only heard it a couple of times and need to listen to it with headphones. Cheers!
Thanx to part 1 i knew where i could find a OG copy of MONTROSS... PistolPete you were spot on , this album Shreds!!!
I feel like I am alone out here thinking that Diamond Dave´s first three proper solo albums, released between 1986 and 1991, are all pretty awesome. I even like Steve Vai´s input on Eat ´Em And Smile and Skyscraper. Dave must been an efficient taskmaster, because he knew how to reign in Vai, unlike Coverdale who make a complete turd of an album with him in 1989.
I would throw in the DLR Band album too.
Eat em and Smile was a better player record but 5150 was a better song record.
Stunned to see Martin pull out AC vs. B$B.
What was never touched is Kiss vs Ace Frehley 1987 to 1989. Both released albums the same period and were competing with each other.
Guys.... Idea for a show... "Greatest albums that never were" ... e.g. Lifehouse by The Who.... The planned album at the time of Who's Next as the follow up for Tommy.... When you see and listen to the running order on the Lifehouse Cronciles by Pete and the odd Spotify playlist which has most of the album on it by the Who themselves from demos and B sides etc... a massively missed opportunity... but what others are out there in your own experience from other bands.... Could also be "The greatest bands that never were" .... Where the stars didn't align for a planned line up.... Over to you guys....
Greatest album that never was has to be "Smile". Greatest Band that never was could be the supergroup of Miles, Jimi, McCartney and Tony Williams, that was suggested to Macca in a telegram that never made its way to him because he was on his farm in Scotland and not in London at the Apple office.
Album that never happened... Mad Season 2. They had material, but no lyrics bc Layne passed! Would have killed for that! Another would be the Ian Gillan/ Black Sabbath follow up to Born Again. Yet another would be the supergroup Damnocrasy with Bach, Nugent, Ian Scott and Jason Bonham.
Cool conversation about the early-80’s Black Sabbath shake-up. I was 13-14 years old when it all happened and REALLY into Sabbath at the time, as all young guitarists are to this day.
Great topic. You guys should do comparison of Ozzy, Black Sabbath and Dio after the Black Sabbath Ozzy era break up. Comparing year by year from 1980-1984 or 1985, including Ian Gillian. Ozzy vs Sabbath vs Dio vs Gillian. Basically taking your topic in this current video to another level.
Album by Album year by year.
Promised Land doesn’t do all that well? It sold as many copies as Mindcrime, 2 million worldwide, and over a million in America. A platinum release and their highest charting album ever - #3 on Billboard. It wasn’t as well-received as Empire for sure, but nothing they could have released in 94 could have competed with Empire, not in that musical climate. And the first album with Todd did pretty well considering, debuting at number 23 on Billboard compared to number 70 for Dedicated To Choas, the last QR with Tate. I think it did surprisingly well.
Love Martin and Pete show
now for both versions of LA Guns
Feel completely opposite from Martin on Pink Floyd/Roger Waters. Roger Waters songs all sound similar. I DO see Martin's point on latter Floyd being "corporate rock".
Surely Martin meant to hold up Eat 'Em & Smile rather than Skyscraper?
I’ve heard Martin mention J Mascis before. Dinosaur Jr vs Sebadoh is an interesting story. Lou partners with another musical genius but this time is the one to keep the band after the falling out. Pretty even playing field between DJ and Sebadoh and then the reunion is huge.
Pink Floyd, The Division Bell is not too bad. My fav is High Hopes, however, check out the version Nightwish does.
"High Hopes" is great, and so is "Wearing The Inside Out" imo.
Did Jon Lord make a mistake leaving white snake for deep purple reunion?
Vivian Campbell is from Northern Ireland.
Genesis. Peter Gabriel has the best 2 albums with Melt and Security. Steve Hackett has the most satisfying career. Phil Collins was the most popular, but no real trace of prog after Hello I Must be Going. 3 Man Genesis were ok, but they became safer and safer from one album to the next.
Pink Floyd. Roger Waters vs David Gilmour. Pink Floyd did it best. I like both their solo catalogs, but nothing they ever conceived can compare with what they did together with The Pink Floyd.
I think they left "The" part of their name on the same street corner with Syd Barrett waiting for the van to come.
@@catsofsherman1316 they were better even without syd
I agree with Steven Reid, I am not a big fan of the Syd stuff. I like Astronomy Domine. But the rest of what I’ve heard is twee, typical 60s British psych. From the early period Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun is great too, but I think thats a Waters song.
Hear hear! Agree wholeheartedly. Both Dave’s and Roger’s stuff is great, but not the same. Again I respectfully disagree with Martin…which happens a lot. But kudos to him for always bringing the heat and controversy lol
after Waters and Gilmour divorced Pink Floyd died in my opinion...
I was hopping to hear some Iron Maiden x Bruce Dickinson. Bruce released 2 amazing albums (Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding) while Maiden was in their worst moment with Blaze.
Sorry another comment regarding Geoff and Queensryche , Queensryche's set list seems to be 80% Geoff material. Actually just looked at recent set lists and they only play 2 or 3 songs from the Todd albums. Why not stand behind their material?
Scorpions Lovedrive or Uli John Roth's Electric Sun? Well, both camps lost something essential after they parted ways. Uli needed the Scorpions "traditional song structure approach" to shine and Scorpions needed Uli's creativity and songwriting to be great.
Marillion fan from the start and love those first 4 albums but i remember ( and still have) all the Kerrang interviews and Fish has definitely changed his reasons for leaving over the years. This is someone who went legal to try and steal the name from a band he joined. I think those first 4 albums are classics but there are probably 7 classics by Marillion and H and two by Fish ( first and last)
Van Halen/DLR
- 5150/Eat Em And Smile (1986)
- OU812/Skyscraper (1988)
- A Little Ain’t Enough (1991)
Iron Maiden
Dickinson solo albums released during the Blaze Bayley albums. The same goes towards Judas Priest without Halford in the 90s and early 00s.
Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath releasing albums in the 80s
- Blizzard of Ozz/Heaven and Hell (1980)
- Diary of a Madman/Mob Rules (1981)
- Speak of the Devil/Live Evil (1982)
Dio leaves Sabbath, Gillan replaces him
- Bark at the Moon/Born Again/Holy Diver (1983)
- The Ultimate Sin/Seventh Star (1986)
Deep Purple Come Taste the Band/Ritchie Blackmore’s Rainbow
Buckingham Nicks is another example, even though they joined the Fleetwood Mac in 1975.
Iron Maiden - Bruce Dickinson
Metallica - Dave Mustaine
Dream Theater - Mike Portnoy
Nightwish - Tarja
Flotsam & Jetsam - Jason Newsted
Scorpions - Uli Jon Roth
Judas Priest - Rob Halford
Helloween - Kai Hansen
Sepultura - Max Cavalera
Deep Purple - Ritchie Blackmore
The Supremes - Diana Ross
I'm surprised Megadeth/Metallica didn't make either list.
me too
I'm not
Very enjoyable feature. If you guys did want to do another episode in this series later on, then a few you might want to consider are.
Judas Priest and Rob Halford
Foreigner and Lou Gramm
Kansas and Streets
Ted Nugent and St Paradise/Whitford St Holmes
Uriah Heep and Ken Hensley.
Or Steve Walsh's solo album " Schemer-Dreamer "...or Kerry Livgren solo, Livgren's 1980s band AD, or Livgren's 2000s band Proto-Kaw
@@michaelbaucom4019 Haven't heard Proro Kaw. I do own all Steve Walsh's solo albums including Schemer Dreamer, which is my personal favourite of his. Of the Livgren albums I do own AD Time Line and Seeds of Change which are both very good.
I still rock that Blue Murder debut! Good show.
One that comes to mind. The careers of Robert Fripp and Greg Lake post the second King Crimson album?
John Sykes did do Thin Lizzy for a few years too.
Agree with Martin, the last Roger Waters album is amazing!
++ Dead & Co. vs Phil & Friends ++ (Love ‘em both. Make Love Not War, right?)
I thought Steve Perry had health issues that kept him away from Journey...correct me if I'm wrong
You say Pink Floyd-one o' the big corporate bands o' all time...Let's not forget my favorite Pink Floyd albums: Piper At The Gates O' Dawn 'n A Saucerful O' Secrets...AS GOOD AS IT GETS!!!
Dio. On Dio's 5th studio album Lock up the wolves there is a 17 year old guitarist called Rowan Robertson. I used to see Rowan Robertson play live in a pub in Cambridgeshire England playing Led Zep covers and Van Halen's Eruption before he joined Dio's band
I thought about boc vs the bouchard brothers (brain surgeons..blue coupe etc)
Good subject!
UDO'albums kickin "the new accepts" ass in my humble opinion.
Totally surprised they didn't cover Bruce Dickinson and Iron Maiden.
Dickinson's Accident of Birth and The Chemical Wedding completely blew away Maiden's The X Factor and Virtual XI.
Although to this day I still believe that had The X Factor had Bruce singing on it, it would have been one of Maiden's best albums; this was the album where Steve Harris began flirting with the lengthier, more mid-tempo prog-rock songwriting that he would perfect in later years.
All that was missing was Bruce.
King Diamond vs. Mercyful Fate (once King started doing both again).
First one that comes to mind is Max vs Sepultura. After Roots Max leaves Sepultura and forms Soul Fly.
As much as I like the first 5 Sepultura albums, I could not get into Soul Fly or anything from Sepultura after Chaos AD. I have liked a song here and there from both bands and Max's other projects but I think both are a loss.
There's nailbomb too
BooooogieWooooogie.😀I knew it was coming.Enjoyable video,as usual👍
John Sykes came out with 4 solo studio albums after the last Blue Murder album. I'm surprised you didnt mention that.
Out of My Tree (1995)
Loveland (1997)
20th Century (1997)
Nuclear Cowboy (2000)
Maybe an earlier example of Alice Cooper is John Fogerty and Creedence Clearwater Revival. Certainly Beatle-esque acrimony aplenty that went on and on, in great part because JF didn’t have control of his own material, which really was CCR.
Yes versus ABWH versus Anderon, Rabin, Wakeman?
Completely agree re Accept and U.D.O. - 2 fantastic bands - it's a win win!
Why not do an episode reflecting on the possibility that Ronnie James Dio might have joined Deep Purple, and how that might have worked out, and its implications for the Purple family, Sabbath, Dio, among others.
I like Roger Waters Radio KAOS due to it's ties with DJ Jim Ladd
Fun show as always. I’ll say I’m in the Roger Waters camp too. It’s funny but after watching this channel for the last year or two, I never realize how many players traded bands like they traded baseball cards, or football cards since most of the names come from Europe. Any chance we might get a top five albums the represent an individual player? Like top 5 albums with John Sykes or Cozy Powell
Great idea for an episide👍
I saw Marillion a few years ago without Fish and they were great, they had this huge intro with all lights and drum rolls and that and suddenly the whole power went dead. Then at the back of the stage, you could see some roadie frantically putting these 2 cables together and it all came back on...it was like the scene with Doc Brown at the end of Back to the Future, it was hilarious!
I love Ozzy and Sabbath, but those two Dio albums kill. Holy Diver is great and Last in Line even manages to improve on that! Killer stuff by Dio.
I gotta say it was a great time to get onto music!
Outside of Animals (because the band members were still at least involved in the actual playing of the music and was a great Pink Floyd sounding album) the masterpiece of Pink Floyd music lies in the four members. Definitely not The Wall and forward. On a different note. I noticed that there have been bands or artists not known for prog or fusion that do an excellent job of it when they venture into those waters. Journey definitely started there but are still capable on the rare occasion. Believe it or not Gino Vinnelli has done some amazing fusion in the 70s. Hell he even had many of Jean Luk Ponty band members on some of his albums. There are definitely others that on occasion venture out of their perspective music formats and get adventurous.
I agree, that "The Wall" isn't as good as its 3 predecessors, but despite it being a band-break-up album à la "Let It Be" (though much more polished than LIB) and a bloated Waters vanity project, I still think, it's a great album. It captures its time period, the end of the 70s and the beginning of the 80s, super effectivly with the Ezrin production being a step in a new direction for the band.
Uncle Tupelo is an interesting one. Alt country band that had two notable groups form after their breakup. Wilco and Son Volt.
Huh, Martin, you have me wanting to delve into Waters' solo career. For whatever reason I've never gone there.
BUT.....you don't at least like Golmour's guitar tone?
All right, let's settle the real debate for all time. How do you pronounce Carmine Appice's last name. I have heard Pete pronounce it "a piece" with 2 syllables and "a piss e" with three syllables. You've interviewed the man. How does he say it?
Carmine 'A Piece' is how he pronounces it, Vinnie his brother pronounces it 'A Piss E', which is the correct way, according to Carmine. Carmine officially starting saying 'A Piece' because it seemed easier as everyone was constantly pronouncing it wrong.
@@seaoftranquilityprog very interesting. Thanks for the clarification
Marillion did grungy sounding stuff? When was that? Nothing they have done has been grungy. I used to be a huge Fish fan, but I’ve found over the years I can’t really listen to his albums, just don’t connect to his music anymore, I prefer the direction Marillion has gone and seems the older they’ve gotten the better their albums. Fish’s last album was probably his best in awhile though, but I still don’t listen to it as much as I do Marillion.
I'm with you. I thought the Fish-era Marillion albums were great when I was younger and full of piss and vinegar, but that was almost 40 years ago. Today I definitely listen to the Hogarth-era albums way more than the Fish-era albums. I find H's lyrics and singing style more "mature", for the lack of a better word. Fish's solo stuff is very good but I find myself squarely in the Hogarth camp.
Anoraknophobia, Marillion.com, and Radiation all have strong alternative rock/grunge/ambient elements to the music. Thankfully they moved away from that on Marbles and everything after it.
@@seaoftranquilityprog grunge nowhere on those albums at all, a few harder edged rockers on Radiation, “alternative” maybe, whatever that means though, they were inspired by Radiohead for a bit around that time and they’ve always leaned in ambient directions on some of their songs on all their albums with “H”, his solo albums and collaboration albums with Richard Barbieri and Isildurs Bane definitely lean more ambient, but grunge no. Lol.
@@melwilson9531 that is exactly how I feel about the Fish era now, I listened to the remaster of “Fugazi” the other day and I hadn’t listened to that album in a long time, I remember how much that album and “Clutching At Straws” impacted me when I was young, cut to my 50’s now and I just don’t have the same connection to that era of the band, the Lyrics are even kind of embarrassing now, they are quite pedantic to me now. I agree too that “H’s” lyrics are far more mature, I still like Fish too, but not as much as Marillion with H. “F.E.A.R.” really has some of the best lyrics written by anyone in years about something we are all going through still, just listened to their new song they released today and it’s great.
@@sspbrazil FEAR i find boring, and forgetable, and i wanted to like it.
Steve Perry just released a christmas Ep. Cheers.
In the Tate vs QR split, you left out the Sweet Oblivion albums that Tate was a part of, much more of a metal/classic QR sound. I wish Todd could've stayed in Crimson Glory: I miss that band.
I would've liked to have heard their opinions on Sweet Oblivion.
Should do a journey vs Santana
I loved Steve Augeri's vocals and Arrival.
Vivian was born in Belfast
Deep Purple : Rainbow - Whitesnake - Gillan
No mention of Uriah Heep
I’ll take DLR band over Van Hagar any day. Sure, Roth didn’t have as much commercial success as his former bandmates. But he played with several amazing guitarists after Eddie… Steve Vai, Jason Becker, Steve Hunter, and John 5, to name a few. Eat Em and Smile and A Little Ain’t Enough are two of my favourite albums from the Roth solo catalog. The guitar work is amazing! Also, I find that Eddie’s playing was less inventive after Roth left the band. He used to do these cool instrumental tracks on the early albums (Eruption, Spanish Fly, Cathedral) but he stopped doing that when Sammy joined the band. Nothing against Sammy but they became more of a pop rock and ballad band, albeit a very successful one.
Pete never said which is better: Journey without Steve Perry or Steve Perry solo.
Vivian Campbell from Northern Ireland ,sweet savage was his original band I think Metallica done a cover of their song killing Time, not sure
Micheal Schenker w UFO slipting from Scorpions
Also MSG and UFO.
I like Born Again more than solo Dio..... but Dio was definitely on the rise, while my beloved Sabs went into a revolving cast and a lot of uncertainty. I like 7th and really like a lot of the Tony Martin catalogue(especially Idol). But at least in the US, the press and radio dropped sabbath like a bad habit.
So that has to go to Dio.
Halloween --> Gamma Ray
Metallica --> Megadeth
Mecryful Fate --> King Diamond
It's rare to hear someone agree with me that Amused To Death by Roger Waters is a masterpiece.
I would say without doubt his best solo album.
It’s the best written, but his vocals sound worse on it than his other albums for some reason... even worse than on the one he recorded 25 years later.
It's even better than Animals, IMO.
Yeah, I said it.
Everyone I know considers it Roger's best post Floyd album. I think of it as his masterpiece outside of Floyd but, half the album has kind of lost it's luster for me over the years. I'm all in on the What God Wants bits and the album ends with a strong bunch of songs but, the middle of the album is loaded with corny gimmicks and guest appearances that I don't regard very highly anymore.
@@rael2099 Not even in the same league for me. Roger without Floyd serves to remind us of how great his songs would have been if he just listened to the other guys a little more and showed them a little respect.
it's not always so simple to make records once you get past a certain age. maybe david g just ran out of stream. being creative is not like waking up and punching a clock.
Totally disagree with Martin on Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters. RW’s solo stuff is meh. Those later Floyd albums are great. Throw in David’s solo stuff and it’s not close.
I actually think Your Filthy Little Mouth was THE most creative thing Dave did. It's far away from his sound, but it is good stuff. I liked a few songs on Eat Em and Smile, but pretty much didn't like Skyscraper or the next one.
I did like Van Hagar, but never as much. Van Halen was a dirty one night stand with a stripper. Van Hagar was nice sweet lovemaking with the wife of 20 years. I like 5150 and Balance the best(balance the closest to having a darker vibe like fair warning). Their last song Himans Being was really good.
'I'm not a fan of David Gilmour' is an astounding statement, in my opinion. I can understand that you may not like the songs, but as a guitarist he's phenomenal. I'd also say that 'A Little Ain't Enough' by DLR is better than anything that Van Halen did after he left.
The best thing that happened to Marillion was Fish leaving.
Legendary SoCal punk band the True Sounds of Liberty lose their charismatic singer Jack Grisham who is tired of punk rock and wants to pursue more gothy electronic material in the early 80s. Jack leads a few great cult bands like Cathedral of Tears, Joykiller and Tender Prey but none of them last. The remaining members of TSOL decide to do a complete aboutface and become an 80s hair metal band with bluesy singer Joe Wood. Original TSOL punk fans are in shock. The band grow their hair long, put out a few so-so Americana/metal albums and get popular in South America. Band members come and go like a revolving door and TSOL 2.0 fades away. Years later, Jack rejoins the original members(excluding their late drummer) and they have enjoyed a respectable punk revival ever since....
I dont like none of waters albums. The Two floyd albums i liked very much!