The thing that bugs me about the they're dumb for staying loyal criticism is that it's literally high treason in some cases. People act like that's just a freaking Sunday brunch when most normal people would stay loyal to a friend even when the friend makes a dumb decision, let alone their entire homeland that they took an oath to defend.
Very fair point! There does come a time though, I think, when you begin realizing bad deed after bad deed that what your army is doing is very wrong. These guys wouldn't leave even then
Oh, for sure. Some of them definitely do get a bit dense. Lloyd for example is a bit of a dingus about it. You already don't trust the events going on and the only people you had loyalty are either dead or have joined the other side. When your little sister that you actually says that the people didn't kill Linus, maybe actually spend your suicidal energy trying to take down the people who clearly did. Linus is a bit better because it's written that he's so blind with rage he won't listen, but Lloyd seems like he's supposed to be calm and more resigned to it. Eldigan seems like a better execution of what they were going for with Lloyd and Linus. Loyalty and pride keep him around, but things keep stacking up against Chagall until he finally is forced to admit that Chagall is the bad guy. Camus is probably the one where my gripe comes up the most. Grust's king is a coward, but siding with Medeus isn't a complete death sentence. Medeus, at least in Shadow Dragon, wants dragons to rule not a ton else. It doesn't seem like he's especially interested in driving humans to extinction or really treating them like crap. I mean, he got Jiol and Michalis to side with him too. Camus already has a lot of guilt about his previous betrayal, and while his king isn't doing the morally upright thing, it might actually work out better for the people of Grust given the other option is Medeus gets mad and levels the place. In Mystery/New Mystery, we also find out about the prince and princess, which makes Lorenz's betrayal more interesting too since it seems like he's either being really hopeful or acknowledging that there's more to a kingdom than royalty. Others, I'm not as familiar with anymore, and it does seem like Fire Emblem can try to stick a little too close to the mold sometimes, but they vary. It really just comes down to for me that it seems like a recurring criticism of them is "they should just join us, what a shitty character" when it's not always that simple. Also, forgot to say, props on the video. This is the first one of yours I've watched and I definitely enjoyed it a lot!
I mean there are characters like Selena who is aware that her king is dead and replaced by an evil demon lord who is set to destroy the world and still refuses to back down or Bryce who is literally told by Ashnard himself that he killed his entire family to claim the throne and doesn't give a flying fuck about his own country, yet Bryce decides to fight for him anyway since he feels he is bound to his knightly vows. Camus characters are often portrayed as empathetic and caring people that want to protect their home, so it does make them look highly hypocritical when they end up following orders that do nothing but harm to their people. I often think Camus characters seem more loyal to their vows than anything, case in point Bryce and Selena. People are certainly aware that they have to turn traitor, no one is pretending that this is an easy decision, hence why I find characters like Lorenz, Tauroneo, Hannibal or Duessel so much more amazing. They're loyal to the point they'd die for their country, yet realize what they need to do, even if that means turning traitor. I certainly find a man like Tauroneo who denies his service to a king slaying tyrant, even at the cost of his own reputation etc. much more impressive than someone like Eldigan who serves a similair king slaying tyrant
Bryce is a weird case since he explicitly says that a large part of his reasoning is that he's just too burned out to care anymore. He's basically the equivalent of someone who's stuck in a dead-end job but has given up too much to look for a better one and so just trudges through waiting for it to be over and hating themselves. I think your usage of "a man like Tauroneo," as opposed to a character like Tauroneo, highlights what I'm getting at in some regards, though I didn't really say that too well. I have no issue at all with people thinking characters like Bryce and Camus are flawed *as people*. You can very easily argue that Camus is a fool and Bryce is pathetic, but those are flaws they have as people, ironically often called character flaws. It seems like people are quick to say I don't like this character as a person so they're a bad character. Some that aren't justified come across as awkward, but others like Bryce and Camus are pretty well justified, maybe not in our minds, but in terms of their character and beliefs. I do still think people downplay the significance of betraying your country in FEs, tough, too. FE8 as a whole I'm hazy on, but she's not one of the ones I'd say has a stronger case. That'd be one of those examples of them trying to stick a little too close to the archetype and the character suffering for it.
Yeah, but I guess that's because FE games handle switching sides pretty lightly. You have the red guy just turn blue and that's kinda it. No questioning his motifs afterwards or anything. I think the Tellius game did a good job with base conversations, Jill explaining why she decides to stay for example. I did mention in another comment of mine that Shiraham turning on Daein would mean sacrificing almost 2 decades he and his men spent to build a new life or how his decision would put his own men at danger, so I do understand how hard such a choice can be, But it does get mind boggling when Xander stands in front of you and claims that protecting Garon is in interest of Nohr. If guys like Garon or Shagall had a little more substance, maybe like Sephiran, Xander or Eldigan wouldn't look so stupid for following them. I actually can understand Bryce, too. At this point Daein is kinda fucked either way, lead by a lunatic or opressed by Crimea or Begnion. With Ashnard Daein would at least be victorious, so perhaps it was the lesser of two evils to him. He does come across as pretty foolish to me though.
My favorite thing about Zeke is that, even after learning about his past cow life, he ultimately decides to stay with Tatiana (who straight up bae the way!).
Weird thing is that he actually can be recruited this time, as he doesn't actually hold any loyalty but rather is blackmailed into fighting. By rescuing Titania, the whole blackmail falls apart and he doesn't hesitate to turn.
@@YourCrazyDolphin Funny how the original maker of the archetype, the original EXAMPLE of it, no longer follows it in subsequent games. Although, technically Camus is dead, both legally and in spirit, since whether as Zeke or Sirius he ultimately will not (and arguably cannot) be the man he once was; getting his memories back, even fighting for Nyna and to save the heirs of Grust, doesn't change that he's not the same person - incidentally, this highlights a different tragedy, given that Nyna cannot move on even though he has and will return to Tatiana (who also gets major props since, despite her love for him, she would have let him go if he chose to go back to Nyna; he didn't, but I truly believe she's sincere about that).
Eldigan is such an idiot. If he just changed sides he would have fixed everything. Mainly because ares does this and literally helps save the world with no consequences.
The entire population of Augustria hated Shagall and wanted Eldigan to be king instead, yet Eldigan choose to serve a despicable man who killed his own father for power and lets bandits run wild in Eldigan's beloved country because he is his king. If anything he already betrayed his people by serving a man they entirely rejected. His good intentions don't excuse his poor choices. He got himself and Augustria's strongest military force killed. Augustria's civil war is indirectly a result of his actions. Quan and Sigurd didn't deserve their fate. Edligan did since it was a consequence of his poor decision making
Watching this made me realize how the capture option from Thracia 776 is underutilized. I mean you can capture quite a few bosses included more sympathetic ones like Reinhardt or the hilariously evil Kempf, but nearly no dialogue and story is changed. They have the kidnap and capture skills in Fates and even then you can only capture generic bosses and enemies. It would be cool if there was an option to capture Mustafa or others and see how this would affect the rest of the story. I feel like such mechanics are wasted potential for story branching and player choice and wish IS would implement them more deeply in the future.
How is Shiraham one of the worst offenders? I think he is one of the best seeing how understandable his situation is. I genuinely saw him with no choice but to battle. He and his men left Begnion to escape the corruption and they spent almost two decades building up their new life. Shiraham going against Ashnard's orders would mean throwing all these years away. He has a much closer bond to his men than any Camus as they decided to desert with him back then, so naturally Shiraham has to consider them in his decisions. They will ultimately have to give up everything, too, depending on his choice. And they would be two time deserters at this point, who's going to accept them? Not to mention Shiraham is a low ranking officer and a foreigner, he has practically zero pull unlike many other Camus who literally command a big chunk of the enemy army. He can't really do much against Petrine with his wyvern squad and Petrine has a track record of killing her men. I could honestly understand his decision to not join Jill. Aside from his integrity and pride he would have to sacrifice pretty much everything. And in the end he still sent Haar away to evacuate people. Shiraham's loyalty lies more with his men and the people of Talrega than Daein and it's king and that makes him more relatable and likeable than many other Camus to me.
@@shibeking1809 that's the joke, thought it can also be argued that Zeke/Sirius is a different person altogether compared to Camus thx to his experiences in Valentia. even at the end, he didn't return to Archanea and Nyna despite having the chance to do so.
One interesting theory that I learned about while watching Big Kingly’s let’s play that Selena and Xander can be considered “suicide by cops” situations, in which they lost hope in life and want someone else to finish them off, and the fact that Xander’s BR battle is so easy and has little challenge only strengthens that theory for me.
You're not at all wrong. To even affirm this theory is that when you battle him at the Opera House to Castle Krakenburg his stats in strength and defense take a nosedive.
And he doesn't even have a death quote, not to mention it was only relevant in one route. I think the fact that there was no big build up or anything, that it happened out of nowhere and ended in silence made his death even sadder. But yeah, that doesn't make him a Camus. Not every villain who just happens to be on the wrong side of history is a Camus.
I feel Zola in birthright is a camus as well, he may not be one at first, but after being shown compassion from corrin and their army, he begins to want to return it, a sentiment that gets him killed when he asks garon to spare corrin when he captures them. It’s more minor than the other camuses in this video, but it’s still noteworthy
Honestly Lloyd, Linus, Uhai and Mustafa are the only smart Camuses in the series. Props to Rev!Xander for realizing Garon is not himself anymore though.
I can’t really give props to Rev!Xander because he only comes to that conclusion because Garon just loses what little sense and reason he had and proclaimed the destroctuion of Nohr RIGHT IN FRONT OF XANDER AND LEO!!! It’s just another example of the writers contriving a scenario for a specific outcome to occur.
@@XIIIHearts Compared to Brunnya and Selena that's a big feat since both Vigarde and Zephiel flat out said "imma destroy da world" and they were like "mmh k"
@@joegreen3802 In contrast, Bryce can be argued as pretty foolish - Ashnard admits to his face that he murdered his own father, the previous King of Daien (after forcing him to sign a Blood Pact, natch), Bryce says he's still loyal, and Ashnard simply laughs at that; in a way, even the VILLAIN knows his subordinate is stupidly loyal and can't help be amused. It's almost like the writers of "Path of Radiance" were… self-aware, or something crazy like that.
Tbh i only think xander is loyal to nohr on birthright just to sell more conquest copies and drama! I mean isn't that the point? You play hoshido characters on birthright and nohr characters. This is further proven by revelations xander. Pretty shitty writing if you ask me. If they aleast didn't make garon way too evil it could of worked but the dude is willing to execute his own children like wtf.
Lloyd! My favorite character! so few people know the side character and bosses in fe7, they only Hector lyn and eliwood... so sad... Lloyd is absolutely amazing
You know, unlike other things that can dissolve in water, butter is just not one of them, because butter is greasy and doesn’t betray its motherland, the land of grease.
The Binding Blade antagonists are my favorite because no one regrets their actions. Heck, Zephiel is so badass he keeps pushing on with his plan even when he dies and Murdoc's only regret is that he can no longer protect his king.
Personally I always preferred characters like Lorenz, Duessel or Tauroneo, They're just as loyal as Camus to the point they would die for their country, but they realize what they need to do to help their country instead of enabling evil kings.
Shiharam acted not out of loyalty to Daein but rather to secure Jill's future. If he joins Crimea and then Crimea loses the war, he and Jill have nowhere to go. Neither Daein nor Begnion would take him back after he switched allegiances twice, and no laguz nation would accept a couple of beorc who spent almost 20 years living in Daein, either. If he joins Crimea and they win...what then? Will he go back to Daein to help rebuild, or to pick up his belongings and move out? No. At best, poor and starving civilians will ransack his home out of desperation; at worst, they'll burn it to the ground out of spite for a traitor. He and Jill will have nothing left except their battle gear. They'll have to start over in Crimea with no money at all. If he stays with Daein, Jill can come home after the war. The people might not forgive her for betraying her country, but they'll certainly respect his wishes that his belongings and property should go to her. As for why he went to Daein instead of Crimea when he first decided to leave Begnion...he's a soldier. Crimea's never been a military powerhouse. He wouldn't have been assured a career there. Daein is much more militaristic and would welcome him and his men with open arms, even if they never truly accepted them as people.
We have a remake of 1, never got the remake of 3 in US but you can play a fan translated version via emulator, 2 has been remade as Echoes, so all we're missing is 4,5,6
i will still play any FE game i can get my hands on. RD difficulty might be a bit too much for me, though. i have yet to beat conquest on classic (i play FE more for the RPG elements, characters and story, so when the game gets hard, it is a bit of a roadblock for me)
very mad guy RD's difficulty is a wee bit exaggerated. The difficulties were poorly localized (our "Easy" is actually JPN's "Normal," while our "Normal" is their "Hard") so the actual difficulty of the game is really no harder than FE7. My problems with the game lie more in the mechanics and story of the game. Unpopular opinion: I think RD's story is worse than Fates', and this game doesn't have Fates' gameplay or music to salvage it.
No Glen? I mean you don’t fight him but I still feel like he meets the rest of the qualifications. Also I never realized that Mustafa was a Camus cause you literally only see him in the one chapter. Also I know Fernand is not a Camus, but I’m just wondering if there is an archetype that he fits or if he stands alone as a kind of tragic mislead villain.
Archetypes in general are very controversial and blurry. Fernand is more of a general trope of fiction. He's not really misled, he's a typical "prejudice villain".
Fernand is somewhat of an inversion of the Camus archetype. He's an idealist but his ideals are all self serving, or at least the ones he acts upon are. He betrays his nation because things don't go his way. He does eventually have a change of heart and admits he was wrong about things, but he's mortally wounded seeking redemption.
I think I would have also considered Helbindi and Laegjarn for positions on this list. Both of them seem to be at least partially based on the Camus archetype, or at least in Helbindi's case, a member of it. Laegjarn seems to at least be written as if she were a Camus, albeit borrowing quite a bit from Xander (loyal to her conquest-hungry country and horrible father, but honorable and cares for her siblings), mostly in how impersonal she sees her role the conflict and how others seem to see her as honorable (and Fjorm even mentioning thinking they could've been friends in another time). Meanwhile, Helbindi seems to borrow from Mustafa, in that he serves mainly out of care for his family (sister in particular) and the threat of them suffering if they fail (though Mustafa is more of if he doesn't fight, while Helbindi is failure in general - which we hear secondhand how Surtr was quite willing to carry out since Helbindi did fail). Granted, they're a bit newer and their story is ongoing, but I still think they'd count. As for my favorite Camus, I'd have to go with Mustafa. I think that his motivations and presentation is a lot better than most other Camuses (Camusi?). The big problem I've found with the Camus archetype is that they tend to go "Muh loyalty" regardless of how their inaction could allow great evil to win - using Bryce as an example, all he sees Daein's victory bringing is a desolate, devastated world - and their being good people who are honorable (and occasional wanted to be in/were in the pants of one of your army's units and pretty/handsome/beautiful) makes up for it. Mustafa was the one who sold it best, I think, because he was a good man whose motives were more understandable - he was a man who knew any display of disloyalty would see his family pay the price, and even if he didn't believe in the cause, didn't want to place them at risk. Instead of being a man bound stubbornly by refusing to let go of his honor, he was a man trapped in a situation he knew had no escape because those he loved would suffer in his place. There's also how sympathetic he is to his subordinates' unwillingness to fight, too - he is understanding of a subordinate's desire to desert, even willing to take punishment to allow the man to do so, and when the man pledges to stay out of loyalty to Mustafa, he seems apologetic that his men would risk their lives for him. I think just how changing the motive from "Muh homeland and muh honor" to "I don't want to fight, but I cannot abandon my loved ones to die" just really sells him better than most other Camus archetypes. When it comes to least favorite Camus archetypes, I would say its something of a toss-up between the man himself and Xander. Camus is a bit of a weird one, as he kinda kickstarted the archetype and does go on to fight for what's good and right later on, to his credit. But what took him to join them in the first place was a) being presumed dead and masking his true identity during it the whole time, b) his cowardly lord dying, and c) his lord's children needing rescuing. In a sense, he changed sides not necessarily because of a desire to do right, but because who he held loyalty toward changed, and even then he does a bit of sidestepping in that regard (as he returns to Valentia afterwards, sure he had a life there too but stuff still happened while he was in Archanea that he was a part of...). Not helping my feelings in this regard is that in that chapter too is Lorenz, who is talked into defecting by pointing out that no, staying loyal to your king at the expense of your people is not what's good. To quote Caeda, "A kingless country is a country still; but a king without subjects rules naught but hills." So his stubborn adherence to loyalty and honor even though he knows he's on the wrong side clashes with Lorenz right there admitting that he should be loyal to his PEOPLE, not his KING. Hence why I guess I have issues with Camus himself. With Birthright!Xander, it's... definitely complicated, though everyone pretty much feels the same way. Like, he could have been on the fast track to be one of the more sympathetic Camus in the series as it was his own father who was the big villain of the game, his relationship to the main lord being pre-established, and the fact that he is crown prince (as most Camus part of the royal family they're so loyal to - only Eldigan and Ishtar fit that bill, and in both cases defer to a leader of greater authority to their own - thus adding another wrinkle to why he'd be hesitant to turn on his father). Which would have definitely been interesting if not for the fact that it wasn't really handled that way. For one, Xander always seems to have an eternal blind eye turned to Garon and his issues: no matter how blatantly evil Garon acts, it's not until he more or less comes out and says "I'm evil" that Xander acknowledges it. Which could have been interesting in his own right (Xander unable to accept his father being evil because he's too stuck on believing that he just needs to keep being loyal to Garon and MAYBE his father's loving side will return)... but that's never really hinted at, and his characterization can vary wildly at times (one time agreeing with Leo's plans to placate Garon by faking some deaths, but at others willing to kill Corrin cuz daddy said so). So it makes him seem very hypocritical, and because of the lack of depth or explanation behind his stubborn loyalty besides "he's my dad and I'm also a Camus archetype so I gotta," I think that's what really makes Xander one of the worst Camus in FE history. As for the archetype overall... I think it is a genuinely nice archetype, albeit one that really needs a bit of reworking. The idea of a "genuinely good person who just so happens to be an enemy general" really matters a lot to Fire Emblem, oftentimes being a refreshing change of pace from the all too common bloodthirsty or evil generals that tend to populate the antagonists' sides, showing that there can be good people on both sides. But it really has this recurring issue where a lot of them will just let atrocities happen and refuse to defect despite their conscience no doubt shouting loudly in their ear every step of the way. I think they need to be made more like Mustafa, good men who are forced to stay on a side they know is wrong because their hands are tied. Alternatively, they need to put more effort into those that are a bit straighter examples of the archetype, too, perhaps by making their conflict mutual - instead of making them "people on the wrong side who know they're wrong but are unwilling to change sides because honor," they should perhaps make them people who don't see their side or cause as wrong - like, they either don't know their side's darker issues aspects, or were more or less trained to be unquestioningly loyal to their side - and the tragedy in their character is that they're good people who might have been allies had they known the truth. That's just my feelings, though. Really awesome vid, man, I love these archetype analyses, you really go in-depth with your analyses and I hope to see more in the future!
holy crap this is a lot to read... I might be shooting in the dark here when I say this but Helbindi wouldn't be a Camus and despite not joining the Order of Heroes, he does defy Surtr and opposed him in the end, he breaks Veronica and Ylgr out of captivity and is slain for his betrayal... Laegjarn on the other hand is definitely a Camus since she was loyal to her father until her death.
your suggestion is basically lloyd and linus. they were tricked into believing eliwood & co are evil, and the one who fights gets caught completely off guard when shown mercy. the surviving brother fights out of a blind desire for revenge
*Something Something CaMoo Joke Insert Meme Here* But in all seriousness, I have a fondness for OG Camus. He offers an interesting foil to Michalis; One is a pawn to the highers ups who would've been on your side in different circumstances, while the other could never possibly side with Minerva and her allies simply due to differing ideologies. They're both men of their countries, and they live and die by them. But while Cam' gets a fresh start with Tatiana, Mic' has to live with his past and his blunders. Plus, they both get what I think is the best boss theme in the handheld games. Seriously, people should play Shadow Dragon just to appreciate the awesomeness of 'Clash of Two Virtues'.
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx I usually prefer to send General Sedgar, alias Destroyer of Worlds, in with the Starsphere/Gradivus/Parthia combo. Macadonia never stood a chance. For Camus, sniping with Beck and Jake before Mercurius-ing it up with Marth; It's both effective and fitting to the narrative.
@@JB-bc2ry Marth isn't really effective. You need a High Speed Berserker to use the Hauteclere against Camus. And also sniping with Beck and Jake is a waste of time because of that Fortify Cleric.
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx If I'm using an Axe against Camus, it's gonna be a max forged Poleax/Silver Axe; I also prefer to eliminate all other enemies, Cleric included, before the final blow. I don't consider Marth optimal, obviously given his many flaws, but he is probably, narratively, the best to finish the job.
This video feels very fitting for the preview we got today for next FEH chapter and what looks about to happen with Laegjarn and all her "devour me" speech.
People don't know about Albert Camus and how his name is pronounced? [kamy], obviously, though I can see why you'd use [u:] for the final vowel, as English lacks the [y] sound. Really though, you should know about Albert Camus. He's one of the more influential and famous authors of the 20th century, winner of the Nobel Prize and also a prominent philosopher.
I think that the biggest reason Rudolf can't be a Camus is because his regrets more come from how he has to achieve his goal, not in his goal itself. In many ways he plays an interesting twist on the role of a puppetmaster that is usually reserved for the final boss, as he effectively pitted both sides against each other in order to fulfill his own goal. The only major difference between him and say someone like Nergal is that his grand scheme is clearly just.
when there be a giveaway, but give actual instructions that make logical sense. Also I feel that Ursula from FE7 and Glen from FE8 could be argued, as they are both following corrupt leaders that they don't question because of their job, but still don't agree with every one of their actions. Ursula shows regret in her final moments, as she realizes that she was being manipulated. Meanwhile, Glen starts to go against the king, but is snuffed out by Valter.
My favorite Camus would probably be Shiharam- poor guy just can't get a break. Also going by the logic you explained would Flora? (blue haired maid in Fates) be considered kind of a Camus?
If only we were able to recruit her... maybe her army would join us too if she joined us... even if we couldn't play her I would love to see her get the Arion treatment.
Man, it's been so long since the last video, but it's good to see you again! I tried Amino for a while in the Zelda community, but then many people got weird with their fanart. I didn't know there was one for Fire Emblem, so I may try it again since it is my favorite franchise of all time.
After watching this and having you mention the cav team thing (Of which I'm sad we don't have a good axe for as I do rock Camus Emblem), I realized indeed they are generally paladins... which makes me wonder if you could think of A Camus as a sort of Parallel to a Jeigan, just on the other side of the coin.
this video made me notice that camus in echoes has the exact same voice as olberic eisenberg from octopath traveler (I know it's the same VA but he uses the exact same voice)
That's so cool that the original Camus had the Gradivus! and that that weapon makes it back into Fire Emblem Echoes! I didn't know that's where it came from!!
15:30 I don't really agree that Uhai could be considered one of the 'good' and 'honorable' Black Fang, as many claim him to be. Consider his actions for a moment: He allows Jaffar to disrespect Leila's body in his territory, which Lyn herself described as 'Beyond foul'. He ambushed the group while they were mourning - unprepared and unarmed - and threatened to kill the lordess if they refused to hand him Ninian, and only when Eliwood refuses and his hostage ceases use does he allow her freedom. He knew that Nergal was vile, and yet he still attacked the group in service to the tarnished name of the Fang (who could be argued that they weren't that great anyways). And when defeated, he betrayed his comrades by giving away their location, therefore being responsible for dozens of deaths in the process. For no reason. Uhai isn't good or honorable; He IS smart, but he's also treacherous to his organization, and a coward when he fights for them. He's certainly no Camus, and he isn't even opportunistic enough to be like Narcian or Michalis. He's just a fiend.
I wanted to recruit Dimitri onto the golden deer side because Edelgard is like let’s cause so much chaos that they think they’re enemies and I’m like not if I can help it and...well I stopped playing three houses on my first run....
I got a few things to say but first allow me to tell you that you are doing a really nice job. Your videos are always a good source of thought and discussion. 1). I feel as though Fernand [FE: Echoes] is a Camu, but in a different light. A light that is (in a way) at the core of the series as a whole-- unlike the others where fealty to their homeland, love for family, chains of duty, or just vain pride; Fernand is motivated by the most important and commonly found meaning of these reasons. He is forced by his ideas (or if you want to get deep with it by the religion of his country). While the Deliverance is fighting for their home and its restoration, his betrayal makes it clear that he was fighting for the order of the religion of the land. It's true that Fire Emblem has always shown stories about home preservation vs. desire (at times to copy Buddhist precepts), but at the core of EACH game is that of a religion. Fernand unwavering faith to the world's order of divine and Malkuth is literally Fire Emblem in a nutshell. 2). I really think that people kick "Conquest-Xander" around too much. Xander in Conquest makes perfect sense if you just accept what is given to us. To be short the problem of Xander wasn't his inability to listen (even though it did help exacerbate things), but his cowardice. Yes, Xander was a coward and he is a perfect foil to Birthright Corrin. While Birthright Corrin dared to make a change to accept his past Xander did not. Corrin dared to disrupt status quo and sought the truth of the claims, while Xander stayed complacent and ignored any info that would change the shaky ground his family stood. If you accept his supports in Conquest and Revelation and also accept his cutscenes within all three stories, then you get a VERY clear picture of what is going on; Xander isn't acting out the duty of obligation but fear. And not of his father but of losing everything and being alone. This is why he stays distant 'cause doing so he believes he can hold things together and takes his father's place. Xander most likely knows that Garon actually died a long time ago, but he is unwilling to accept it 'cause it would cause infighting at the court again; the same infighting that caused him his others siblings lives-- the MANY he had right before the game started. Most of them died off due to this fighting for the crown (which tells the player that the crown could be seized by power. This explains how shaky the political environment became). He lost many siblings to underhanded infighting for the crown 'cause of the "love" for the King, the possible revelation of his father death, the ignoring of his people, and the harsh subjugation of other possible at one time allies or peaceful neighbors, and the shots being called by retainers and not him-- all this put him in a very tight spot of either speak up and cause an upheaval again, or ignore and hope for the best. Instead of facing reality like Corrin he chooses to use a scapegoat [blameing the war, thus Hoshido must die for the glory of Norh (or If this war is over I can have my family back). 3). Did no one truly notice that Fates was a soft reboot? 4). Lastly, I feel what also makes a Camu is that the archetype is actively going against their established religion, morals, or social standings to blindly have faith-- not of love but rather a duty. They will knowingly do wrong 'cause of their cowardice to change status quo, to leave what they know and/or fear of loss. Anyway, just thought you would like to read that. Like your vidoes.
I don’t think so, to be honest. His backstory is semi-sympathetic, but he seemingly has no objections to anything Sephiran does (even though Sephiran’s *super* unhinged) and is also a far cry from the honorable warriors that the Camus archetype is known for (any semblance of honor he shows as Zelgius is seemingly a front, as evidenced by his actions as Burger King.) In fact, he’s kind of a gigantic asshole at times. I mean, in his very second appearance, he literally tries to extort the whereabouts of Lehran’s Medallion from Greil by threatening *both of his children.* That’s not to mention him essentially subtly manipulating Ike over the course of two seperate wars to become a super-soldier purely because was he pissed that Greil wasn’t at full power when he fought him and wanted a rematch. That disqualifies him from both tenets of the Camus archetype (moral objection to one’s leader and a generally kind/honorable nature.) TL,DR: Zelgius is an asshole and also isn’t a Camus.
I feel you missed one in Blazing Blade: Specifically, General Eagler. Then again, maybe he's put into a different archetype due to the reasons he joined the enemy...?
I feel like Eagler had his family held hostage but then again, he's pretty irrelevant in the long scheme so it's pretty easy to see why he forgot about him
Thank you for bringing up Mustafa. He doesn't get recognized enough even though his mentality is very clearly of the same strain as Camus. The biggest problem is that he's a one-off chapter boss whose only other mention is in Henry's Supports, and even then only one of them, and with Ricken; people probably also dismiss him because he's just so weak as a boss thanks to his godawful hitrate, even accounting for how easy it is to break Awakening. Most other Camus examples are at least threatening, but the wyvern riders in the chapter are honestly a lot more dangerous.
Let's see... other possible examples of the archetype: * In FE3, aka "Mystery of the Emblem" I'd say that Wolf qualifies to a T, as you cannot convince him to lay down arms due to his loyalty to Hardin (even with Hardin corrupted by Gharnef's actions). True, the remake FE12, aka "New Mystery of the Emblem" does make Wolf recruitable along with the rest of the Wolfsguard, but in the original he was the Camus of that game. * In FE7, Eagler from Lyn's route DEFINITELY qualifies if we're counting Mustafa, given his motivations are VERY similar - loves his homeland (Caelin/Plegia), hates his leader (Lundgren/Gangrel), can't stand down because his family is under threat if he refuses… Not completely the same given Lundgren is a usurper (and Lord Hausen is still Marquess Caelin), but the spirit of the archetype is definitely there * A case COULD be made for Glen from FE8, but… well, sadly he doesn't get enough screentime to determine if he WOULD have fought to the death for loyalty like Selena, or defected like Duessel, since Valter killed him before he could confront Emperor Vigarde. Had he fought Eirika before she talked him down one could make a comparison to Eldigan, but even then Selena does fit the mould better overall. * Depending on how you see it, the Black Knight aka Zelgius could qualify; while in FE9 he's more a straight antagonist, in FE10 he shows more of his honourable side and Ike begins to reciprocate the respect he shows him as the son of Greil, aka Gawain of the Four Riders. His code of honour is more flexible, yet not unlike Levail fighting to the end for Zelgius, in turn Zelgius fights to the end of Sephiran - the man who inspires him and represents the cause he follows. I don't know if the fact he fights alongside Michaiah, one of the protagonists in several stages (where her army in controllable) negates him or not, but it's quite a murky area. In conclusion, while I definitely would say Wolf in FE3 (but not FE12) fits the bill, as does Eagler in FE7, I'm not so sure on Glen or Zelgius… Also, given how it handles its antagonists, it feels weird that FE15, aka "Echoes: Shadows of Valentia" didn't even introduce a Camus: while Berkut and Fernand are tragic and have sympathetic qualities, they don't fit the characteristics (as Berkut is insecure yet arrogant, and Fernand betrays his country because of his contempt for commoners), yet they are certainly among the nuanced characters. Also, ironically despite being the archetype maker, Camus himself doesn't fully fit after FE1/FE11: he survives in FE2/FE15 and becomes the amnesiac Zeke, who is coerced with Tatiana's captivity but can (and canonically is) convinced to turn on the ones commanding him once she is rescued; in FE3/FE12, he's a straight-up comrade who fights alongside Marth, as the no-longer-amnesiac, but now disguised Sirius, although it helps that Grust (now a shell of its former glory) is no longer an ally of Dolhr and they have shared interests. Still, as Camus he's legally dead and no matter Nyna's wishes, he won't return to his former life.
Zeke isn’t a Camus character though he just doesn’t join your army because his wife is being held captive and if you first save Titania, Zeke and all of the soldiers will join your side at the beginning of the battle.
I can see both sides to the Archtype here and why some like them and others don’t On one hand yes, it dose give more dimension to the enemy armies of Fire Emblem that not every soldier you kill is evil, which I can respect On the other hand, just because you know what you’re doing is wrong or have doubts, doesn’t make you less guilty for what you do, and you mostly have a choice I guess it just depends on perspective but I respect both sides
Would you say that Yumina and Yubello retroactively justify Camus in fighting for Grust? If he were to turn against Dolhr, their lives probably would have been in jeopardy and he couldn't abide that.
Great video. This is probably my favorite FE archetype. Side note, for Ishtar section, you say Seliph name but show a picture of Leif defeating her. Just as a small nitpick. I've always found Cormag brother Glen to be somewhat Camus like in Sacred Stones, although perhaps that's debatable. However, Xander never really tried to change Corrin's mind: he declared Corrin a traitor and tried to kill Corrin almost every time afterwards. Ryoma is the only one who really tried to change Corrin's mind (conquest version).
As someone who's working on a game inspired by Fire Emblem, I feel the Camus archetype is easily the best one -- and a LOT of fun to write! I'm so fucking happy you've covered this, since I always love your video essays. Here's hoping this is one archetype they keep!
My favorite Camus was Alder from the Dawn Brigade part of Radiant dawn. I always loved his death quote where he was like, "you've been a terror to serve under Jarod, in the best way possible"
Wow, no mention of Glen! He's there first I think of, being that he starts to see the light of day and make a turn away from Grado but gets stopped short Edit: could be in the grey area since you never fight him, but still he fits the bill in story elements arguably better than some of the other candidates
you're welcome Just finished watching this video and really enjoyed it, I do hope we eventually get a localized version for genealogy of the holy war in the states
As soon as you mentioned Salena I began crying. Heck you man. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON BIRTHRIGHT XANDER. Birthright was the only available version at my local gamestop and I started out with THAT.
See, Mustafa and Yen’fay don’t really count, since the idea with Camuses is that they’re incredibly loyal to their country or king or whatever, but those two fight for the enemy because they’re loved ones were threatened.
Shouldn't you consider the Paladin Lyn fought at the prologue chapters in the Balzing Blade? I mean, he can also be a Camus archetype right? (Forgot his name sorry)
So, which Archetype will be next? We covered the Jeigan/Oifay, The Christmas cavalry duo, the EST, and the Camus. Probably the Minerva or Navarre Archetype? Just a guess.
What about Deghinsea? He was motivated by loyalty to Ashera. He's my favourite camus. I'd say Micaiah in part 3 is also a camus. Of the ones you listed, Lloyd is my favourite one. Just read about Deghinsea here. serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/scripts/game-script/part-4-final-chapter-rebirth-3/regular/ Basically, he regrets fighting against Yune's forces which is something the camus archetype has. Also, his loyalty to Ashera is due to a promise he made long ago. Micaiah's reason for fighting the laguz alliance isn't very different from most camus prior to knowing about the blood pact.
Selena, the Camus of Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, is playable only in Creature Campaign mode. She’s unlocked by completing the Tower of Valni three times.
I would like to mention Duessel from Sacred Stones. He's an example of a Camus like character only he actually does join you and turns on his country. That said, he does not fit the archetype, but it does show how that, although he knows what he's doing is right, he feels guilt for the betrayal. I've always loved this perspective and this exception. It makes you think about the "what ifs" and that it's not all black and white.
*Right in the Yen'Feels. Thanks for watching!*
Say'REEEEEEEEE
I actually was waiting/hoping/praying for this archetype.
Thanks man!
Welcome back.
@@RyanVonAegir
Say'Emlia XD
What was the outro song?? I want that on repeat for hours
Murdock is the best Camus because he has capped con.
CAPPED CON.
"Bwah Ha Ha!"
" Look, a giant walks among you! Come!"
*Break your weapons against me!*
Mangs Murdock thicc as fuck
Man, he can wield a steel axe with no penalty, that's power right there.
@@geenobe9941
Murdock is just TOO OP!!!
He can wield the DEVIL AXE without penalty!
The thing that bugs me about the they're dumb for staying loyal criticism is that it's literally high treason in some cases. People act like that's just a freaking Sunday brunch when most normal people would stay loyal to a friend even when the friend makes a dumb decision, let alone their entire homeland that they took an oath to defend.
Very fair point! There does come a time though, I think, when you begin realizing bad deed after bad deed that what your army is doing is very wrong. These guys wouldn't leave even then
Oh, for sure. Some of them definitely do get a bit dense. Lloyd for example is a bit of a dingus about it. You already don't trust the events going on and the only people you had loyalty are either dead or have joined the other side. When your little sister that you actually says that the people didn't kill Linus, maybe actually spend your suicidal energy trying to take down the people who clearly did. Linus is a bit better because it's written that he's so blind with rage he won't listen, but Lloyd seems like he's supposed to be calm and more resigned to it. Eldigan seems like a better execution of what they were going for with Lloyd and Linus. Loyalty and pride keep him around, but things keep stacking up against Chagall until he finally is forced to admit that Chagall is the bad guy.
Camus is probably the one where my gripe comes up the most. Grust's king is a coward, but siding with Medeus isn't a complete death sentence. Medeus, at least in Shadow Dragon, wants dragons to rule not a ton else. It doesn't seem like he's especially interested in driving humans to extinction or really treating them like crap. I mean, he got Jiol and Michalis to side with him too. Camus already has a lot of guilt about his previous betrayal, and while his king isn't doing the morally upright thing, it might actually work out better for the people of Grust given the other option is Medeus gets mad and levels the place. In Mystery/New Mystery, we also find out about the prince and princess, which makes Lorenz's betrayal more interesting too since it seems like he's either being really hopeful or acknowledging that there's more to a kingdom than royalty.
Others, I'm not as familiar with anymore, and it does seem like Fire Emblem can try to stick a little too close to the mold sometimes, but they vary. It really just comes down to for me that it seems like a recurring criticism of them is "they should just join us, what a shitty character" when it's not always that simple.
Also, forgot to say, props on the video. This is the first one of yours I've watched and I definitely enjoyed it a lot!
I mean there are characters like Selena who is aware that her king is dead and replaced by an evil demon lord who is set to destroy the world and still refuses to back down or Bryce who is literally told by Ashnard himself that he killed his entire family to claim the throne and doesn't give a flying fuck about his own country, yet Bryce decides to fight for him anyway since he feels he is bound to his knightly vows.
Camus characters are often portrayed as empathetic and caring people that want to protect their home, so it does make them look highly hypocritical when they end up following orders that do nothing but harm to their people. I often think Camus characters seem more loyal to their vows than anything, case in point Bryce and Selena.
People are certainly aware that they have to turn traitor, no one is pretending that this is an easy decision, hence why I find characters like Lorenz, Tauroneo, Hannibal or Duessel so much more amazing. They're loyal to the point they'd die for their country, yet realize what they need to do, even if that means turning traitor.
I certainly find a man like Tauroneo who denies his service to a king slaying tyrant, even at the cost of his own reputation etc. much more impressive than someone like Eldigan who serves a similair king slaying tyrant
Bryce is a weird case since he explicitly says that a large part of his reasoning is that he's just too burned out to care anymore. He's basically the equivalent of someone who's stuck in a dead-end job but has given up too much to look for a better one and so just trudges through waiting for it to be over and hating themselves.
I think your usage of "a man like Tauroneo," as opposed to a character like Tauroneo, highlights what I'm getting at in some regards, though I didn't really say that too well. I have no issue at all with people thinking characters like Bryce and Camus are flawed *as people*. You can very easily argue that Camus is a fool and Bryce is pathetic, but those are flaws they have as people, ironically often called character flaws. It seems like people are quick to say I don't like this character as a person so they're a bad character. Some that aren't justified come across as awkward, but others like Bryce and Camus are pretty well justified, maybe not in our minds, but in terms of their character and beliefs. I do still think people downplay the significance of betraying your country in FEs, tough, too.
FE8 as a whole I'm hazy on, but she's not one of the ones I'd say has a stronger case. That'd be one of those examples of them trying to stick a little too close to the archetype and the character suffering for it.
Yeah, but I guess that's because FE games handle switching sides pretty lightly. You have the red guy just turn blue and that's kinda it. No questioning his motifs afterwards or anything. I think the Tellius game did a good job with base conversations, Jill explaining why she decides to stay for example.
I did mention in another comment of mine that Shiraham turning on Daein would mean sacrificing almost 2 decades he and his men spent to build a new life or how his decision would put his own men at danger, so I do understand how hard such a choice can be,
But it does get mind boggling when Xander stands in front of you and claims that protecting Garon is in interest of Nohr. If guys like Garon or Shagall had a little more substance, maybe like Sephiran, Xander or Eldigan wouldn't look so stupid for following them.
I actually can understand Bryce, too. At this point Daein is kinda fucked either way, lead by a lunatic or opressed by Crimea or Begnion. With Ashnard Daein would at least be victorious, so perhaps it was the lesser of two evils to him. He does come across as pretty foolish to me though.
RIP Mufasa, saddest death until Mustafa in FE Awakening
Sssssssimba
Haha... *sob*
I actually voted for Mustafa in the special gauntlet before Fire Emblem Heroes launched.
SCAR! BROTHER! HELP MEEEEEEEE
@@kylepessell1350 Same, Mustafa had so much personality and charisma that I felt he deserved to be in Heroes. Still sad he's not in
Omae wa mou shindeiru
Zeke is my favorite Camoo. He is also actually Camoo.
My favorite thing about Zeke is that, even after learning about his past cow life, he ultimately decides to stay with Tatiana (who straight up bae the way!).
camus, as Zake, is a Lorenes, a hard to recruit enemy general
Weird thing is that he actually can be recruited this time, as he doesn't actually hold any loyalty but rather is blackmailed into fighting.
By rescuing Titania, the whole blackmail falls apart and he doesn't hesitate to turn.
@@YourCrazyDolphin Funny how the original maker of the archetype, the original EXAMPLE of it, no longer follows it in subsequent games. Although, technically Camus is dead, both legally and in spirit, since whether as Zeke or Sirius he ultimately will not (and arguably cannot) be the man he once was; getting his memories back, even fighting for Nyna and to save the heirs of Grust, doesn't change that he's not the same person - incidentally, this highlights a different tragedy, given that Nyna cannot move on even though he has and will return to Tatiana (who also gets major props since, despite her love for him, she would have let him go if he chose to go back to Nyna; he didn't, but I truly believe she's sincere about that).
Well, rescue Tatiana so you'll be able to recruit him.
Eldigan is my favorite Camus because he, Sigurd or Lachesis even, didn’t deserve what happened to him.
Eldigan is betrayed by his own country from where his loyalty is present upon.
dude is that an ishtar lewd
Eldigan is such an idiot. If he just changed sides he would have fixed everything. Mainly because ares does this and literally helps save the world with no consequences.
@@Neogears1312
Eldigan can't bring himself to betray his own country.
He loved it ever since he was born.
The entire population of Augustria hated Shagall and wanted Eldigan to be king instead, yet Eldigan choose to serve a despicable man who killed his own father for power and lets bandits run wild in Eldigan's beloved country because he is his king. If anything he already betrayed his people by serving a man they entirely rejected.
His good intentions don't excuse his poor choices. He got himself and Augustria's strongest military force killed. Augustria's civil war is indirectly a result of his actions.
Quan and Sigurd didn't deserve their fate. Edligan did since it was a consequence of his poor decision making
Watching this made me realize how the capture option from Thracia 776 is underutilized. I mean you can capture quite a few bosses included more sympathetic ones like Reinhardt or the hilariously evil Kempf, but nearly no dialogue and story is changed. They have the kidnap and capture skills in Fates and even then you can only capture generic bosses and enemies. It would be cool if there was an option to capture Mustafa or others and see how this would affect the rest of the story. I feel like such mechanics are wasted potential for story branching and player choice and wish IS would implement them more deeply in the future.
Agreed!
How is Shiraham one of the worst offenders? I think he is one of the best seeing how understandable his situation is. I genuinely saw him with no choice but to battle.
He and his men left Begnion to escape the corruption and they spent almost two decades building up their new life. Shiraham going against Ashnard's orders would mean throwing all these years away.
He has a much closer bond to his men than any Camus as they decided to desert with him back then, so naturally Shiraham has to consider them in his decisions. They will ultimately have to give up everything, too, depending on his choice. And they would be two time deserters at this point, who's going to accept them?
Not to mention Shiraham is a low ranking officer and a foreigner, he has practically zero pull unlike many other Camus who literally command a big chunk of the enemy army. He can't really do much against Petrine with his wyvern squad and Petrine has a track record of killing her men.
I could honestly understand his decision to not join Jill. Aside from his integrity and pride he would have to sacrifice pretty much everything. And in the end he still sent Haar away to evacuate people.
Shiraham's loyalty lies more with his men and the people of Talrega than Daein and it's king and that makes him more relatable and likeable than many other Camus to me.
That awkward moment when you don't fit your own archetype.
but Zeke and Sirius are two different characters Kappa
@@superblanco444 their not? They are the same people.
@@shibeking1809 He is joking lol
@@shibeking1809 there is a kappa after what he said therefore he's only saying ironic stuff
search up kappa on Google
@@shibeking1809 that's the joke, thought it can also be argued that Zeke/Sirius is a different person altogether compared to Camus thx to his experiences in Valentia.
even at the end, he didn't return to Archanea and Nyna despite having the chance to do so.
One interesting theory that I learned about while watching Big Kingly’s let’s play that Selena and Xander can be considered “suicide by cops” situations, in which they lost hope in life and want someone else to finish them off, and the fact that Xander’s BR battle is so easy and has little challenge only strengthens that theory for me.
Interesting!
You're not at all wrong. To even affirm this theory is that when you battle him at the Opera House to Castle Krakenburg his stats in strength and defense take a nosedive.
SonicLegends OH RIGHT!
Forgot to bring that up but yeah now I am convinced on it.
Thanks for reminding me.
Honestly, for story spoiler reasons, I've never even considered Xander as a Camus at all.
Victoria Harlette could you kindly explain why?
Is the plural of Camus
Camuses
Cami
Camus
This is one of those things that won’t get an answer that keeps me up at night
I thought about this too. It's clearly Camupi
This is as close as it’ll get to canon
So I’ll take it
Francie it's probably Camues
Camousse, now he is a dessert
Its camoose
Awakenings boss characters like Mustafa and Pheros are so interesting in so few lines. I wish they switched places with exellius & that mustache dude
Lol
The mustache dude was fun, but I do wish Mustafa and Pheros had more plot relevance.
Love the stache man. Love the invincible stache.
Glen always seems like a Camus to me, but I guess he never fights the player's army which would disqualify him.
And he doesn't even have a death quote, not to mention it was only relevant in one route.
I think the fact that there was no big build up or anything, that it happened out of nowhere and ended in silence made his death even sadder.
But yeah, that doesn't make him a Camus.
Not every villain who just happens to be on the wrong side of history is a Camus.
he basically tried to be a lorenz, but got offed before he got the chance
Dussel, you smart, you very smart. You loyal. I appreciacha
I feel Zola in birthright is a camus as well, he may not be one at first, but after being shown compassion from corrin and their army, he begins to want to return it, a sentiment that gets him killed when he asks garon to spare corrin when he captures them. It’s more minor than the other camuses in this video, but it’s still noteworthy
Hans is the best of the CaMOO archetype. His death was so sad. Alexa play sad violin (airhorn edition).
His little purple raccoon tail is so a e s t h e t i c
Let me play you despacito 2 on the world's smallest alexa
This is so sad Alexa commit Deathpacito.
Honestly Lloyd, Linus, Uhai and Mustafa are the only smart Camuses in the series.
Props to Rev!Xander for realizing Garon is not himself anymore though.
I can’t really give props to Rev!Xander because he only comes to that conclusion because Garon just loses what little sense and reason he had and proclaimed the destroctuion of Nohr RIGHT IN FRONT OF XANDER AND LEO!!! It’s just another example of the writers contriving a scenario for a specific outcome to occur.
@@XIIIHearts
Compared to Brunnya and Selena that's a big feat since both Vigarde and Zephiel flat out said "imma destroy da world" and they were like "mmh k"
Da Maverick Blast don’t know about Zephiel, but Vigarde never said he was going to destroy Gardo
@@joegreen3802 In contrast, Bryce can be argued as pretty foolish - Ashnard admits to his face that he murdered his own father, the previous King of Daien (after forcing him to sign a Blood Pact, natch), Bryce says he's still loyal, and Ashnard simply laughs at that; in a way, even the VILLAIN knows his subordinate is stupidly loyal and can't help be amused. It's almost like the writers of "Path of Radiance" were… self-aware, or something crazy like that.
Tbh i only think xander is loyal to nohr on birthright just to sell more conquest copies and drama!
I mean isn't that the point?
You play hoshido characters on birthright and nohr characters.
This is further proven by revelations xander.
Pretty shitty writing if you ask me.
If they aleast didn't make garon way too evil it could of worked but the dude is willing to execute his own children like wtf.
Referred to as The Reinhardt
But Camus did it first, hence why it's called the Camus archetype.
Rogue Slushy The Reinhardt is a FEH reference.
@@batta6948 Ew, gacha secondaries...
Coincidentally, Camus and Xander where my core in my cavalry team and I ally supported them long before I knew who Camus was
Funny coincidence, eh?
Lloyd! My favorite character! so few people know the side character and bosses in fe7, they only Hector lyn and eliwood... so sad... Lloyd is absolutely amazing
You know, unlike other things that can dissolve in water, butter is just not one of them, because butter is greasy and doesn’t betray its motherland, the land of grease.
It's pronounced CA-MU? There literally an s in the name. Curse you silent letters!
They strike again!!
It's French
I REFUSE TO CALL THE BLONDE BOY A COW! NEVER!!!
@Mason Abney Really!? I was pronouncing it corps all this time. Way to drop that bomb on me. Thanks xD
@@HeriocAce Oh really? I've always pronounced it as 'Core', because the p and s are both silent.
Camus: "Is fighting... really the answer?"
Hero: "You could just surrender."
Camus: "No. I'll fight and die so YOU FEEL BAD!"
Finally a new video glad to see you've been doing good love these archetype analysis's!
Linus... I'll...see you again... I'm sure you're angry, but... Please be my friend...again...
Is it pronounced Linu?
@@54miis1heb351 god dammit
The Binding Blade antagonists are my favorite because no one regrets their actions. Heck, Zephiel is so badass he keeps pushing on with his plan even when he dies and Murdoc's only regret is that he can no longer protect his king.
"She also does her best to comfort Tine"
Tine is actually pronounced "Tin-eh".
Personally I always preferred characters like Lorenz, Duessel or Tauroneo, They're just as loyal as Camus to the point they would die for their country, but they realize what they need to do to help their country instead of enabling evil kings.
Shiharam acted not out of loyalty to Daein but rather to secure Jill's future.
If he joins Crimea and then Crimea loses the war, he and Jill have nowhere to go. Neither Daein nor Begnion would take him back after he switched allegiances twice, and no laguz nation would accept a couple of beorc who spent almost 20 years living in Daein, either.
If he joins Crimea and they win...what then? Will he go back to Daein to help rebuild, or to pick up his belongings and move out? No. At best, poor and starving civilians will ransack his home out of desperation; at worst, they'll burn it to the ground out of spite for a traitor. He and Jill will have nothing left except their battle gear. They'll have to start over in Crimea with no money at all.
If he stays with Daein, Jill can come home after the war. The people might not forgive her for betraying her country, but they'll certainly respect his wishes that his belongings and property should go to her.
As for why he went to Daein instead of Crimea when he first decided to leave Begnion...he's a soldier. Crimea's never been a military powerhouse. He wouldn't have been assured a career there. Daein is much more militaristic and would welcome him and his men with open arms, even if they never truly accepted them as people.
Tfw both my Poll and Quiz made an appearance in your sponsorship
Lol nice!
everyone is a camus in three houses
That is, if you don't recruit them before part 2
Fire Emblem: Three NTR Houses
I don't care about official pronunciation, I'm still calling him *Cam-us*. Jokes aside, nice video
See ryus Lee?
I wish nintendo would remake the seven or more games that the US didnt get or better yet put them in a compilation.
We have a remake of 1, never got the remake of 3 in US but you can play a fan translated version via emulator, 2 has been remade as Echoes, so all we're missing is 4,5,6
they also need to release the tellius games on virtual console. i feel like i am missing out because of my extreme skepticism towards emulators
@very mad guy You're only really missing out on PoR anyway. RD's not very good.
i will still play any FE game i can get my hands on. RD difficulty might be a bit too much for me, though. i have yet to beat conquest on classic (i play FE more for the RPG elements, characters and story, so when the game gets hard, it is a bit of a roadblock for me)
very mad guy RD's difficulty is a wee bit exaggerated. The difficulties were poorly localized (our "Easy" is actually JPN's "Normal," while our "Normal" is their "Hard") so the actual difficulty of the game is really no harder than FE7.
My problems with the game lie more in the mechanics and story of the game. Unpopular opinion: I think RD's story is worse than Fates', and this game doesn't have Fates' gameplay or music to salvage it.
Camoo: broke
Camus: woke
Zeke: ascended
Sirius: Extended
No Glen? I mean you don’t fight him but I still feel like he meets the rest of the qualifications.
Also I never realized that Mustafa was a Camus cause you literally only see him in the one chapter.
Also I know Fernand is not a Camus, but I’m just wondering if there is an archetype that he fits or if he stands alone as a kind of tragic mislead villain.
Archetypes in general are very controversial and blurry. Fernand is more of a general trope of fiction. He's not really misled, he's a typical "prejudice villain".
Fernando fits more in the Orson archetype. Considering both characters betray your team.
Fernand is somewhat of an inversion of the Camus archetype. He's an idealist but his ideals are all self serving, or at least the ones he acts upon are. He betrays his nation because things don't go his way. He does eventually have a change of heart and admits he was wrong about things, but he's mortally wounded seeking redemption.
Mustafa isn't a Camus. He is a variation of the archetype known as the "one shot general"
I think I would have also considered Helbindi and Laegjarn for positions on this list. Both of them seem to be at least partially based on the Camus archetype, or at least in Helbindi's case, a member of it. Laegjarn seems to at least be written as if she were a Camus, albeit borrowing quite a bit from Xander (loyal to her conquest-hungry country and horrible father, but honorable and cares for her siblings), mostly in how impersonal she sees her role the conflict and how others seem to see her as honorable (and Fjorm even mentioning thinking they could've been friends in another time). Meanwhile, Helbindi seems to borrow from Mustafa, in that he serves mainly out of care for his family (sister in particular) and the threat of them suffering if they fail (though Mustafa is more of if he doesn't fight, while Helbindi is failure in general - which we hear secondhand how Surtr was quite willing to carry out since Helbindi did fail). Granted, they're a bit newer and their story is ongoing, but I still think they'd count.
As for my favorite Camus, I'd have to go with Mustafa. I think that his motivations and presentation is a lot better than most other Camuses (Camusi?). The big problem I've found with the Camus archetype is that they tend to go "Muh loyalty" regardless of how their inaction could allow great evil to win - using Bryce as an example, all he sees Daein's victory bringing is a desolate, devastated world - and their being good people who are honorable (and occasional wanted to be in/were in the pants of one of your army's units and pretty/handsome/beautiful) makes up for it. Mustafa was the one who sold it best, I think, because he was a good man whose motives were more understandable - he was a man who knew any display of disloyalty would see his family pay the price, and even if he didn't believe in the cause, didn't want to place them at risk. Instead of being a man bound stubbornly by refusing to let go of his honor, he was a man trapped in a situation he knew had no escape because those he loved would suffer in his place. There's also how sympathetic he is to his subordinates' unwillingness to fight, too - he is understanding of a subordinate's desire to desert, even willing to take punishment to allow the man to do so, and when the man pledges to stay out of loyalty to Mustafa, he seems apologetic that his men would risk their lives for him. I think just how changing the motive from "Muh homeland and muh honor" to "I don't want to fight, but I cannot abandon my loved ones to die" just really sells him better than most other Camus archetypes.
When it comes to least favorite Camus archetypes, I would say its something of a toss-up between the man himself and Xander.
Camus is a bit of a weird one, as he kinda kickstarted the archetype and does go on to fight for what's good and right later on, to his credit. But what took him to join them in the first place was a) being presumed dead and masking his true identity during it the whole time, b) his cowardly lord dying, and c) his lord's children needing rescuing. In a sense, he changed sides not necessarily because of a desire to do right, but because who he held loyalty toward changed, and even then he does a bit of sidestepping in that regard (as he returns to Valentia afterwards, sure he had a life there too but stuff still happened while he was in Archanea that he was a part of...). Not helping my feelings in this regard is that in that chapter too is Lorenz, who is talked into defecting by pointing out that no, staying loyal to your king at the expense of your people is not what's good. To quote Caeda, "A kingless country is a country still; but a king without subjects rules naught but hills." So his stubborn adherence to loyalty and honor even though he knows he's on the wrong side clashes with Lorenz right there admitting that he should be loyal to his PEOPLE, not his KING. Hence why I guess I have issues with Camus himself.
With Birthright!Xander, it's... definitely complicated, though everyone pretty much feels the same way. Like, he could have been on the fast track to be one of the more sympathetic Camus in the series as it was his own father who was the big villain of the game, his relationship to the main lord being pre-established, and the fact that he is crown prince (as most Camus part of the royal family they're so loyal to - only Eldigan and Ishtar fit that bill, and in both cases defer to a leader of greater authority to their own - thus adding another wrinkle to why he'd be hesitant to turn on his father). Which would have definitely been interesting if not for the fact that it wasn't really handled that way. For one, Xander always seems to have an eternal blind eye turned to Garon and his issues: no matter how blatantly evil Garon acts, it's not until he more or less comes out and says "I'm evil" that Xander acknowledges it. Which could have been interesting in his own right (Xander unable to accept his father being evil because he's too stuck on believing that he just needs to keep being loyal to Garon and MAYBE his father's loving side will return)... but that's never really hinted at, and his characterization can vary wildly at times (one time agreeing with Leo's plans to placate Garon by faking some deaths, but at others willing to kill Corrin cuz daddy said so). So it makes him seem very hypocritical, and because of the lack of depth or explanation behind his stubborn loyalty besides "he's my dad and I'm also a Camus archetype so I gotta," I think that's what really makes Xander one of the worst Camus in FE history.
As for the archetype overall... I think it is a genuinely nice archetype, albeit one that really needs a bit of reworking. The idea of a "genuinely good person who just so happens to be an enemy general" really matters a lot to Fire Emblem, oftentimes being a refreshing change of pace from the all too common bloodthirsty or evil generals that tend to populate the antagonists' sides, showing that there can be good people on both sides. But it really has this recurring issue where a lot of them will just let atrocities happen and refuse to defect despite their conscience no doubt shouting loudly in their ear every step of the way. I think they need to be made more like Mustafa, good men who are forced to stay on a side they know is wrong because their hands are tied. Alternatively, they need to put more effort into those that are a bit straighter examples of the archetype, too, perhaps by making their conflict mutual - instead of making them "people on the wrong side who know they're wrong but are unwilling to change sides because honor," they should perhaps make them people who don't see their side or cause as wrong - like, they either don't know their side's darker issues aspects, or were more or less trained to be unquestioningly loyal to their side - and the tragedy in their character is that they're good people who might have been allies had they known the truth.
That's just my feelings, though. Really awesome vid, man, I love these archetype analyses, you really go in-depth with your analyses and I hope to see more in the future!
holy crap this is a lot to read... I might be shooting in the dark here when I say this but Helbindi wouldn't be a Camus and despite not joining the Order of Heroes, he does defy Surtr and opposed him in the end, he breaks Veronica and Ylgr out of captivity and is slain for his betrayal... Laegjarn on the other hand is definitely a Camus since she was loyal to her father until her death.
your suggestion is basically lloyd and linus. they were tricked into believing eliwood & co are evil, and the one who fights gets caught completely off guard when shown mercy. the surviving brother fights out of a blind desire for revenge
It's been 84 years...
Tiki slept for 500 years.
Its cannot compare.
Camus is the best camus don’t @ me
@lucio banaga
I won't
lucio banaga Zeke is best Camus
@
Hope we get Laegjarn in Heroes at least
Boy do I have some good news for you!
Wait what, YES WE’RE NOT STUCK WITH ONLY VERONICA.
Boi
On point prediction, unfortunately now this video needs an addendum!
Aaaaaand we did
Fe3h: how to maximize you levels of Camus
Just cuck the other two houses and steal everyone except the leaders.
*Something Something CaMoo Joke Insert Meme Here*
But in all seriousness, I have a fondness for OG Camus. He offers an interesting foil to Michalis; One is a pawn to the highers ups who would've been on your side in different circumstances, while the other could never possibly side with Minerva and her allies simply due to differing ideologies. They're both men of their countries, and they live and die by them. But while Cam' gets a fresh start with Tatiana, Mic' has to live with his past and his blunders.
Plus, they both get what I think is the best boss theme in the handheld games. Seriously, people should play Shadow Dragon just to appreciate the awesomeness of 'Clash of Two Virtues'.
Michalis is very easy.
Just eliminate him using Maria.
Camus is a Tricky one and the reason why you train and promote OP first tier units.
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx
I usually prefer to send General Sedgar, alias Destroyer of Worlds, in with the Starsphere/Gradivus/Parthia combo. Macadonia never stood a chance. For Camus, sniping with Beck and Jake before Mercurius-ing it up with Marth; It's both effective and fitting to the narrative.
@@JB-bc2ry
Marth isn't really effective.
You need a High Speed Berserker to use the Hauteclere against Camus.
And also sniping with Beck and Jake is a waste of time because of that Fortify Cleric.
@@JB-bc2ry
Sedgar :
With the Gradivus,Starsphere and Lightsphere in my grasp, there is no guiding light in your path, only nothingness.
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx
If I'm using an Axe against Camus, it's gonna be a max forged Poleax/Silver Axe; I also prefer to eliminate all other enemies, Cleric included, before the final blow. I don't consider Marth optimal, obviously given his many flaws, but he is probably, narratively, the best to finish the job.
This video feels very fitting for the preview we got today for next FEH chapter and what looks about to happen with Laegjarn and all her "devour me" speech.
she is recruitable now.
People don't know about Albert Camus and how his name is pronounced? [kamy], obviously, though I can see why you'd use [u:] for the final vowel, as English lacks the [y] sound.
Really though, you should know about Albert Camus. He's one of the more influential and famous authors of the 20th century, winner of the Nobel Prize and also a prominent philosopher.
I guess a prominent philosopher trying to get name recognition is just a Sisyphean task.
I honestly know him more from his novel, L'Etranger (The Stranger). After finding a weapon in TF2 named that.
Quickest half hour I've ever experienced. Just fantastic stuff, start to finish!
I think that the biggest reason Rudolf can't be a Camus is because his regrets more come from how he has to achieve his goal, not in his goal itself. In many ways he plays an interesting twist on the role of a puppetmaster that is usually reserved for the final boss, as he effectively pitted both sides against each other in order to fulfill his own goal. The only major difference between him and say someone like Nergal is that his grand scheme is clearly just.
>amino
I've heard that the community is really bad. And I checked and it's pretty meh.
Its shit. If you don't wanna risk your sanity, then don't delve any further
It’s a meme ~~a lot like most of the Fire Emblem community honestly~~
I'm on there and it's pretty neat imo
@@windmageenthusiast3620 we're not on discord
Is it worse than Gamefaqs?
when there be a giveaway, but give actual instructions that make logical sense. Also I feel that Ursula from FE7 and Glen from FE8 could be argued, as they are both following corrupt leaders that they don't question because of their job, but still don't agree with every one of their actions. Ursula shows regret in her final moments, as she realizes that she was being manipulated. Meanwhile, Glen starts to go against the king, but is snuffed out by Valter.
AYE LUCKY CRIT ITS BEEN A HOT MINUTE
Hero's is kinda weird in the mater, but i'd say that Laegjarn counts as one
She definitely does now! Too bad it happened after I posted the video..
My favorite Camus would probably be Shiharam- poor guy just can't get a break.
Also going by the logic you explained would Flora? (blue haired maid in Fates) be considered kind of a Camus?
That's an interesting one.. I'd have to look back at the differences between her incarnations in each path, but good thought!
Ishtar deserved better :(
If only we were able to recruit her... maybe her army would join us too if she joined us... even if we couldn't play her I would love to see her get the Arion treatment.
I couldn't agree more, but on the bright side she is one of the best villains because of being a well written Camus
Man, it's been so long since the last video, but it's good to see you again! I tried Amino for a while in the Zelda community, but then many people got weird with their fanart. I didn't know there was one for Fire Emblem, so I may try it again since it is my favorite franchise of all time.
After watching this and having you mention the cav team thing (Of which I'm sad we don't have a good axe for as I do rock Camus Emblem), I realized indeed they are generally paladins... which makes me wonder if you could think of A Camus as a sort of Parallel to a Jeigan, just on the other side of the coin.
my favourite unit is squidward
Krakatoa!
this video made me notice that camus in echoes has the exact same voice as olberic eisenberg from octopath traveler (I know it's the same VA but he uses the exact same voice)
I can only think of the Camoo cow picc whenever I see him now!!
Arivs is a Camus imo due to his reluctance later on to Fight Seliph- and if he isn't a Camus, then he is like Rudolf I guess
Arvis is not a Camus. Arvis is scum.
That's so cool that the original Camus had the Gradivus! and that that weapon makes it back into Fire Emblem Echoes! I didn't know that's where it came from!!
well, considering a certain character in Echoes, it makes sense Gradivus would appear in that game as well 👀
Did you know? The original Camus was inspired by Char Aznable from the series Mobile Suit Gundam 0079.
I did actually! Debated putting that tidbit in the video
Nice. I found out on Tv.tropes.
That’s fucking awesome.
Does that make Zeke Quattro?
@@MyVanir Zeke, he is a Quattro.
15:30 I don't really agree that Uhai could be considered one of the 'good' and 'honorable' Black Fang, as many claim him to be. Consider his actions for a moment: He allows Jaffar to disrespect Leila's body in his territory, which Lyn herself described as 'Beyond foul'. He ambushed the group while they were mourning - unprepared and unarmed - and threatened to kill the lordess if they refused to hand him Ninian, and only when Eliwood refuses and his hostage ceases use does he allow her freedom. He knew that Nergal was vile, and yet he still attacked the group in service to the tarnished name of the Fang (who could be argued that they weren't that great anyways). And when defeated, he betrayed his comrades by giving away their location, therefore being responsible for dozens of deaths in the process. For no reason.
Uhai isn't good or honorable; He IS smart, but he's also treacherous to his organization, and a coward when he fights for them. He's certainly no Camus, and he isn't even opportunistic enough to be like Narcian or Michalis. He's just a fiend.
I wanted to recruit Dimitri onto the golden deer side because Edelgard is like let’s cause so much chaos that they think they’re enemies and I’m like not if I can help it and...well I stopped playing three houses on my first run....
I got a few things to say but first allow me to tell you that you are doing a really nice job. Your videos are always a good source of thought and discussion.
1). I feel as though Fernand [FE: Echoes] is a Camu, but in a different light. A light that is (in a way) at the core of the series as a whole-- unlike the others where fealty to their homeland, love for family, chains of duty, or just vain pride; Fernand is motivated by the most important and commonly found meaning of these reasons. He is forced by his ideas (or if you want to get deep with it by the religion of his country). While the Deliverance is fighting for their home and its restoration, his betrayal makes it clear that he was fighting for the order of the religion of the land. It's true that Fire Emblem has always shown stories about home preservation vs. desire (at times to copy Buddhist precepts), but at the core of EACH game is that of a religion. Fernand unwavering faith to the world's order of divine and Malkuth is literally Fire Emblem in a nutshell.
2). I really think that people kick "Conquest-Xander" around too much. Xander in Conquest makes perfect sense if you just accept what is given to us. To be short the problem of Xander wasn't his inability to listen (even though it did help exacerbate things), but his cowardice. Yes, Xander was a coward and he is a perfect foil to Birthright Corrin. While Birthright Corrin dared to make a change to accept his past Xander did not. Corrin dared to disrupt status quo and sought the truth of the claims, while Xander stayed complacent and ignored any info that would change the shaky ground his family stood. If you accept his supports in Conquest and Revelation and also accept his cutscenes within all three stories, then you get a VERY clear picture of what is going on; Xander isn't acting out the duty of obligation but fear. And not of his father but of losing everything and being alone. This is why he stays distant 'cause doing so he believes he can hold things together and takes his father's place. Xander most likely knows that Garon actually died a long time ago, but he is unwilling to accept it 'cause it would cause infighting at the court again; the same infighting that caused him his others siblings lives-- the MANY he had right before the game started. Most of them died off due to this fighting for the crown (which tells the player that the crown could be seized by power. This explains how shaky the political environment became). He lost many siblings to underhanded infighting for the crown 'cause of the "love" for the King, the possible revelation of his father death, the ignoring of his people, and the harsh subjugation of other possible at one time allies or peaceful neighbors, and the shots being called by retainers and not him-- all this put him in a very tight spot of either speak up and cause an upheaval again, or ignore and hope for the best. Instead of facing reality like Corrin he chooses to use a scapegoat [blameing the war, thus Hoshido must die for the glory of Norh (or If this war is over I can have my family back).
3). Did no one truly notice that Fates was a soft reboot?
4). Lastly, I feel what also makes a Camu is that the archetype is actively going against their established religion, morals, or social standings to blindly have faith-- not of love but rather a duty. They will knowingly do wrong 'cause of their cowardice to change status quo, to leave what they know and/or fear of loss.
Anyway, just thought you would like to read that. Like your vidoes.
Could zelgius be considered a Camus archetype?
I don’t think so, to be honest. His backstory is semi-sympathetic, but he seemingly has no objections to anything Sephiran does (even though Sephiran’s *super* unhinged) and is also a far cry from the honorable warriors that the Camus archetype is known for (any semblance of honor he shows as Zelgius is seemingly a front, as evidenced by his actions as Burger King.) In fact, he’s kind of a gigantic asshole at times. I mean, in his very second appearance, he literally tries to extort the whereabouts of Lehran’s Medallion from Greil by threatening *both of his children.* That’s not to mention him essentially subtly manipulating Ike over the course of two seperate wars to become a super-soldier purely because was he pissed that Greil wasn’t at full power when he fought him and wanted a rematch.
That disqualifies him from both tenets of the Camus archetype (moral objection to one’s leader and a generally kind/honorable nature.)
TL,DR: Zelgius is an asshole and also isn’t a Camus.
I feel you missed one in Blazing Blade: Specifically, General Eagler. Then again, maybe he's put into a different archetype due to the reasons he joined the enemy...?
I feel like Eagler had his family held hostage but then again, he's pretty irrelevant in the long scheme so it's pretty easy to see why he forgot about him
Thank you for bringing up Mustafa. He doesn't get recognized enough even though his mentality is very clearly of the same strain as
Camus. The biggest problem is that he's a one-off chapter boss whose only other mention is in Henry's Supports, and even then only one of them, and with Ricken; people probably also dismiss him because he's just so weak as a boss thanks to his godawful hitrate, even accounting for how easy it is to break Awakening. Most other Camus examples are at least threatening, but the wyvern riders in the chapter are honestly a lot more dangerous.
Awesome video Stevie! Well worth the wait :)
Let's see... other possible examples of the archetype:
* In FE3, aka "Mystery of the Emblem" I'd say that Wolf qualifies to a T, as you cannot convince him to lay down arms due to his loyalty to Hardin (even with Hardin corrupted by Gharnef's actions). True, the remake FE12, aka "New Mystery of the Emblem" does make Wolf recruitable along with the rest of the Wolfsguard, but in the original he was the Camus of that game.
* In FE7, Eagler from Lyn's route DEFINITELY qualifies if we're counting Mustafa, given his motivations are VERY similar - loves his homeland (Caelin/Plegia), hates his leader (Lundgren/Gangrel), can't stand down because his family is under threat if he refuses… Not completely the same given Lundgren is a usurper (and Lord Hausen is still Marquess Caelin), but the spirit of the archetype is definitely there
* A case COULD be made for Glen from FE8, but… well, sadly he doesn't get enough screentime to determine if he WOULD have fought to the death for loyalty like Selena, or defected like Duessel, since Valter killed him before he could confront Emperor Vigarde. Had he fought Eirika before she talked him down one could make a comparison to Eldigan, but even then Selena does fit the mould better overall.
* Depending on how you see it, the Black Knight aka Zelgius could qualify; while in FE9 he's more a straight antagonist, in FE10 he shows more of his honourable side and Ike begins to reciprocate the respect he shows him as the son of Greil, aka Gawain of the Four Riders. His code of honour is more flexible, yet not unlike Levail fighting to the end for Zelgius, in turn Zelgius fights to the end of Sephiran - the man who inspires him and represents the cause he follows. I don't know if the fact he fights alongside Michaiah, one of the protagonists in several stages (where her army in controllable) negates him or not, but it's quite a murky area.
In conclusion, while I definitely would say Wolf in FE3 (but not FE12) fits the bill, as does Eagler in FE7, I'm not so sure on Glen or Zelgius… Also, given how it handles its antagonists, it feels weird that FE15, aka "Echoes: Shadows of Valentia" didn't even introduce a Camus: while Berkut and Fernand are tragic and have sympathetic qualities, they don't fit the characteristics (as Berkut is insecure yet arrogant, and Fernand betrays his country because of his contempt for commoners), yet they are certainly among the nuanced characters.
Also, ironically despite being the archetype maker, Camus himself doesn't fully fit after FE1/FE11: he survives in FE2/FE15 and becomes the amnesiac Zeke, who is coerced with Tatiana's captivity but can (and canonically is) convinced to turn on the ones commanding him once she is rescued; in FE3/FE12, he's a straight-up comrade who fights alongside Marth, as the no-longer-amnesiac, but now disguised Sirius, although it helps that Grust (now a shell of its former glory) is no longer an ally of Dolhr and they have shared interests. Still, as Camus he's legally dead and no matter Nyna's wishes, he won't return to his former life.
Zeke isn’t a Camus character though he just doesn’t join your army because his wife is being held captive and if you first save Titania, Zeke and all of the soldiers will join your side at the beginning of the battle.
I can see both sides to the Archtype here and why some like them and others don’t
On one hand yes, it dose give more dimension to the enemy armies of Fire Emblem that not every soldier you kill is evil, which I can respect
On the other hand, just because you know what you’re doing is wrong or have doubts, doesn’t make you less guilty for what you do, and you mostly have a choice
I guess it just depends on perspective but I respect both sides
Would you say that Yumina and Yubello retroactively justify Camus in fighting for Grust? If he were to turn against Dolhr, their lives probably would have been in jeopardy and he couldn't abide that.
Glad to see you back lucky .
I’d say that for fe6 only Galle is a Camus cause it wouldn’t make sense for Murdock or brunya to join Roy.
Great video. This is probably my favorite FE archetype.
Side note, for Ishtar section, you say Seliph name but show a picture of Leif defeating her. Just as a small nitpick.
I've always found Cormag brother Glen to be somewhat Camus like in Sacred Stones, although perhaps that's debatable. However, Xander never really tried to change Corrin's mind: he declared Corrin a traitor and tried to kill Corrin almost every time afterwards. Ryoma is the only one who really tried to change Corrin's mind (conquest version).
I’d love to see this series come back! Would be cool to see you go over the trainee unit archetype
Wait, does Percival not count?
I continue to look foward this episodes in the future xd
As someone who's working on a game inspired by Fire Emblem, I feel the Camus archetype is easily the best one -- and a LOT of fun to write! I'm so fucking happy you've covered this, since I always love your video essays. Here's hoping this is one archetype they keep!
0:00 Subtitles: *[Fire Emblem Echoes music]*
Deaf People: *_O.O_*
My favorite Camus was Alder from the Dawn Brigade part of Radiant dawn. I always loved his death quote where he was like, "you've been a terror to serve under Jarod, in the best way possible"
Next one better be my boy Cord.
... oh and that dude with the hammer too
Wow, no mention of Glen! He's there first I think of, being that he starts to see the light of day and make a turn away from Grado but gets stopped short
Edit: could be in the grey area since you never fight him, but still he fits the bill in story elements arguably better than some of the other candidates
what about Lyon from TSS? Loved him, was so sad he couldn't be recruited in the main story line
Ishtar is definelty my favorite from the Camus archetype
do you have a base stats vs growth video? this would be an awesome video
Thank you for the suggestion!
you're welcome Just finished watching this video and really enjoyed it, I do hope we eventually get a localized version for genealogy of the holy war in the states
Yeah a remake would be awesome eventually
MUSTAFA DIDN'T DIE AND YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE
*tears down face*
WOW HE'S BACK we missed you Q_Q
As soon as you mentioned Salena I began crying. Heck you man. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON BIRTHRIGHT XANDER. Birthright was the only available version at my local gamestop and I started out with THAT.
See, Mustafa and Yen’fay don’t really count, since the idea with Camuses is that they’re incredibly loyal to their country or king or whatever, but those two fight for the enemy because they’re loved ones were threatened.
Shouldn't you consider the Paladin Lyn fought at the prologue chapters in the Balzing Blade? I mean, he can also be a Camus archetype right? (Forgot his name sorry)
Welcome back. I missed your content
Thank you! Glad to be back.
So, which Archetype will be next? We covered the Jeigan/Oifay, The Christmas cavalry duo, the EST, and the Camus. Probably the Minerva or Navarre Archetype? Just a guess.
What about Deghinsea? He was motivated by loyalty to Ashera. He's my favourite camus. I'd say Micaiah in part 3 is also a camus. Of the ones you listed, Lloyd is my favourite one.
Just read about Deghinsea here. serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/scripts/game-script/part-4-final-chapter-rebirth-3/regular/
Basically, he regrets fighting against Yune's forces which is something the camus archetype has. Also, his loyalty to Ashera is due to a promise he made long ago.
Micaiah's reason for fighting the laguz alliance isn't very different from most camus prior to knowing about the blood pact.
Selena, the Camus of Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, is playable only in Creature Campaign mode. She’s unlocked by completing the Tower of Valni three times.
Sure is a good thing this video was made pre-3H. Otherwise this would be a much longer video!
I'd be wary of that man if I were you, Stevie...
3:03 masterpiece sound recording. A+
Lol, it's very difficult to record audio on Android for whatever reason
I would like to mention Duessel from Sacred Stones. He's an example of a Camus like character only he actually does join you and turns on his country. That said, he does not fit the archetype, but it does show how that, although he knows what he's doing is right, he feels guilt for the betrayal. I've always loved this perspective and this exception. It makes you think about the "what ifs" and that it's not all black and white.
The Strategist Minks that’s the lorenz archetype
I'm a bit surprised that Zeke (Camus) wasn't on that list, even though he is recruitable as an ally.
You mixed up the Ishtar archetype and the "one-shot general" (Murdock, Mustafa, etc.) archetype.
And now, Laegjarn of FEH has joined the Camus archetype
Yes.. Literally a day after I released this. Go figure