What are Fire Emblem Archetypes? The Jagens (and Oifeys) Fire Emblem History and Characters
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- In today's episode we're diving into the interesting world of Fire Emblem Archetypes, that is; characters throughout the series that follow certain trends or feature certain similar character traits. The focus for today's episode will be on the Jagen archetype, Jagen being an elderly knight unit with some incredible base stats for his join time but pitifully low growth rates that ensure that he won't be getting much better as the game goes on. This means that during the mid-to-late game he'll be far less useful than other units you spend time and effort leveling up, so don't rely on Jagens too much! We'll also discuss Oifeys, another similar archetype to the Jagens but with the caveat of actually having good growths, too! So basically early-game god tier units? Yep.
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Fire Emblem: Awakening - Chapter 2: Shepherds (Lunatic-Classic Mode) footage by Omegaevolution
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Jagen Information via Fire Emblem Wikia:
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Base Stats and Growth Rate charts thanks to Fire Emblem Wiki:
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Oifey info:
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More info on Archetypes:
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I always considered Sigurd a Jagen archetype since he is very powerful to start but stops being useful halfway through the game.
Dokidoku i just realized the joke you made
This is brilliant
Yeah when comparing him to other units in the lategame his stats are just pure ash
Very rude
stops being usefull halfway through? maybe if he gets rng screwed but otherwise sigurd never really drops off
*Mekkah screaming in the distance*
_There couldn't possibly be anything for Mekkah to be upset with here._
You said that Dagda slows down later on, if that isn't bait for players like him, I don't know what it is (cause it is hardly true). EDIT: (Also implying Norne is better than Jeigan/Arran is shady at the very least)
Overusing the Jagens is a mistake, but immediately benching the Jagens is also a mistake.
They're there to be used, they're there so the army's little babies don't die trying to get a kill.
Even I used them very reluctantly, not because I was put off by their growths or their low experience gains, but because of my unhealthy hoarding habits telling me "save that silver lance, you're gonna need it later". Sometimes it's better to use a Jagen and bench some "potentially good" character than go through the excruciating pain of trying to raise said character from the ground up (*cough* Fiona *cough*)
Just train Fiona and the other bad units, you'll be very glad you did!
“immediately benching the jagens is also a mistake” fe6 Marcus with Lvl1 would like to disagree
“Overusing the jeigans are a mistake” unless your Seth and have the 5th best growth rate percentage
@@dudhhrmcdudhhr6071 what the hell are you talking about? binding blade hard mode basically requires the use of marcus early on. the enemies are really tough, and roy, wolt, alen, lance, and bors are incapable of surviving more than three hits from them at base level. alen is your strongest unpromoted unit in chapter 1, but even he can very easily die if the enemies decide to swarm him. marcus can reliably cripple the enemy axe users with his iron sword and leave them as easy pickings for your other units that are hungry for exp, or he can outright kill them with his silver lance if the enemy being dead is a higher priority than leveling up. the silver lance is especially helpful for dealing with dangerous earlygame enemies such as the chapter 7 wyvern riders. you should never be afraid to use marcus in the first few chapters of hard mode, because he's one of the only units in your earlygame squad capable of surviving prolonged combat. yes, he becomes mostly obsolete in combat around the western isles when his once-impressive base stats are now on par with your garden variety axe fighter and his low experience gain and subpar growth rates will have done almost nothing to improve them (though as a paladin, he can still find some sort of niche in participating in rescue chains and ferrying roy to the seize point more quickly, so he can still be useful even if he never sees combat again), and he loses almost all relevance as a combat unit from chapter 13 onwards, but he'll save your ass in the beginning, which is probably the hardest part of the game. immediately benching him may be acceptable in normal mode (if a bit suboptimal since he's such a good unit at the start), but in hard mode, benching marcus straight out of the gate is tantamount to suicide.
TL;DR; marcus isn't that bad you're just mean
@@tahamohammad8842 well, i think seth is the most egregious example of what happens when the developers don't do enough to limit the power of jagens. he can use every non-personal sword and lance in the game except for audhulma and vidofnir without any investment, his bases are only marginally inferior to the average stats of franz, forde, and kyle when they're promoted at level 20, his 8 movement allows him to reach objectives and enemies with ease, he has decent growth rates by sacred stones standards, so he only needs a few levels to remain one of your strongest units (if not THE strongest) throughout the entire game, his mount allows him to rescue units in danger, the enemies in FE8 are absolutely pathetic and scale at a snail's pace (they don't even stop using unpromoted units as the bulk of the enemy force until the game is basically over), and because he joins in the prologue and he can be deployed in every chapter except chapter 5x, a chapter where you have orson to replicate everything great about seth's combat performance in his absence, seth's availability can be considered perfect. he doesn't even negatively affect the strength of your other units if you use him too much since infinite grinding is not only possible but encouraged. seth isn't even the only jagen who overstays his welcome. hell, i'd argue that jagens falling off is the exception and not the rule. the only jagens i know of that stop being useful in combat after a certain point are marcus from binding blade, arran from new mystery of the emblem, sothe from radiant dawn, and gunter from fates, but even they can remain useful through utility. marcus can participate in rescue chains and ferry roy to the seize point more quickly, sothe can steal items from enemies and unlock chests and doors, arran can serve as a decent tank, staffbot, or flier via reclassing, and gunter's personal skill makes him an excellent stat backpack for corrin and can greatly improve a grounded corrin's mobility if you make him a malig knight or wyvern lord.
Marth actually says Jagen's name in his support with Frederick in Warriors. It's Jay-gen.
ZRKyurem bumping
Yes because om Japanese it's spelt "jeigen" - "ei" pronounced as "ay"
You just blew my damn mind with the Mae and Boey thing... how the hell did I miss that?!
I missed it to, probably because I considered Gray/Tobin to be the Cain/Abel. But its plausible to have two sets--one for Celica, one for Alm.
SAME!
the cain and abel for Alm is Lukas and Forsyth
@ Mariokemon
Both are. Check the wiki.
I knew about them, but Mae/Boey also makes perfect sense when you consider the dynamics involved (shared class, red-hot/green-cool, closely support or tied to the Lord).
Jagan is alive in FE12 because the canon decoy was Frey. Its not outright stated, but it's heavily implied it was Frey. It's also implied its more likely than not he lived though.
Regarding Dagdar, his poor growths honestly don't hurt him that much because all stats cap at 20 in FE5, not to mention he is pretty much endgame ready with his bases. If nothing else, you could just give him the growth boosting crusader scrolls.
I’m going to have to disagree with you a bit regarding your statement that newer players tend to make the mistake of overusing their Jeigan. The way I see it, newer players are the ones who tend to avoid using Jeigan’s (and now we’re talking the archetypical Jeigan’s). Refusing to use any pre-promotes, including Jeigan’s, is in my opinion a surefire way of spotting a noob.
Newer player tend to focus a lot on growth rates, and they want to “raise their own units”, rather than using units who are already established. As you grow more jaded and experienced however, you start to really appreciate Jeigan’s. To quote Mekkah, they basically come with several thousand points of free experience, as well as a free promotional item already used on them, it would be silly to reject such a nice gift.
Just go back and check out my original Fe6 LP, where I refuse to use Marcus in the early-game, and it’s like dragging my balls through a pile of broken glass. Had I just given him a weapon and used him to soften up units, I wouldn’t have struggled the way I did.
TLDR; don’t be a noob, use Jeigan.
Mangs The four stages of Jeigan:
Newcomer: Jeigans are great!
Journeyman: Jeigans suck up all your XP!
Seasoned FE Player: Jeigans are great!
Hector Hard Mode trying to 5 star XP rating: Jeigans suck up all your XP!
So would you say it's a fire emblem pitfall?
ew275x I suppose you could say that. I don't want to intrude on Mekkah's territory, though.
Gonna have to disagree with your disagreement. I know when my wife and I started playing there was no reason we saw not to use our Jeigans. In fact, when I started in Sacred Stones I used Seth pretty often, to the point where I really screwed myself over in later chapters.
Austin Haworth Wait, you were screwed over by using SETH?! You must be the most unlucky man in existence.
What a fantastic video, I really liked it!
Great job!
Thanks buddy! Glad you liked it.
This is your spirit character since you’re the devoted veteran guardian type who likes to be OP
Whoa, it's the guy
Who else feels like a Jagen IRL? like, you got places and you're alright at what you do, but deep down you know kinda peaked, so you now all that's left is to be the cool boomer mentor for the new generation of whatever you do.
Oof
Yeah, I get that for sure. However, I have 2 kids who are just hitting that peak around 18, and that's the best mentor there is. Thinking I'd be more like fe6 Marcus though... I might be past my best, but I can still ferry everyone around, maybe take a hit for someone or something, and can still be useful till endgame
@@ricardodarcangelo2437 After a year of reflection I think you're right, it's time to change to Oifey mentality, even if you only get to a Marcus, that's still pretty good IMO.
Eh... despite technically being prepromotes, Jakob/Felicia aren't really Oifeys or Jagens. They have the stats of standard Level 1 units at the beginning of the game and growths equivalent to that of normal units. They're normal units who start in a promoted class--which is treated like an unpromoted class for them and they have level up to 40 instead of 20.
Jakob/Felicia are a little odd, but they're not Oifeys. Or Jagens.
They actually kinda are. Considering how useful they are.
@@LittleAl016 the definition of Jagen/Oifey is not just "good unit".
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I know. They're also promoted units that serve to help the player out. Which Jakob and Felicia both do.
My favourite Archetype is the Sigurd/Flora/Rinea Archetype.
Is this joke still cool?
It's a pretty lit archetype.
Very Spicy!
Hottest characters in fire emblem
what archetype is that>
Mariokemon the hottest one of them all
That glasses prop is a keeper.
I think some people took offense to it lol, not trying to stereotype my audience, I'm probably a lot more nerdy than most viewers. Just wanted to poke fun at those few nitpickers/nitpicky comments on everything x)
Also you should do the Camus archetype next, that’d be a interesting video
HDL ikr
HDL Avatar checks out.
I don't take bribes, Camus. If that's even your real name
are you sirius??
Lucky Crit Don't you mean Zeke??
Jagen is an amazing archtype. FE 11 Jagen as a Swordmaster has more than enough to be fielded in endgame. Dagdar is amazing and Eyvel isn't really a jagen as her avail is crap. Fin is more the 2nd one as his growths are slightly below average overall (average for an early game unit), but he has a stellar personal, useful skill and high bases and decent base level.
I remember how OP Seth was. Opponents either miss or do no damage, while he always oneshots and/or crits. He was pretty much broken. XD
This looks like an interesting new series, Lucky Crit. I look forward to seeing you make further videos in it.
As far as Jagens go, I think my favourite is Gunter. He has a good mix of not being too good like too many Jagens end up being, while not being useless after a certain point either (because he's still a good pair up bot for Corrin), plus he has good voice acting and a good backstory that sadly only really comes into prominence during Revelation.
I quite like this type of archetype analysis! I hope you continue to do these videos!
>Jagen's fall of due to their growths
ehhh Idk man let's look at the Jagens "that fall off" throughout the series:
Jagen doesn't fall off in FE1 or FE3B1 because of the low caps of 20. He also doesn't fall in FE11 due to how broken the forging system is, being able to contribute in the late game with his base stats alone.
Eyvel is a great "oh shit" button in the first 3 or 4 chapters since she literally has plot armor and cannot die in those chapters. She becomes pretty worthless after she rejoins in chapter 24x tho.
Dadgar is absolutely amazing due to his incredible bases and massive HP, he's an amazing capture bot and because of the low caps he can easily be used the entire game.
FE6!Marcus is pretty great up until chapter 13, and even then he can still be used as a rescue bot in the later chapters.
And FE7!Marcus' stats are great man he starts falling on chapter 31 and if he reaches 14 speed he can double literally 95% of the enemies.
Also, gonna be the unpopular guy here and say that Gunter isn't as bad as everyone says. Yeah his combat stats are god-awful, but he's still a great support bot for Corrin in the early-mid game due to his personal skill, also his class pool is freaking insane, but he's still the worst Jagen in the franchise.
Renoud an argument can be made that B2!Arran is worse than Gunter since the advantage that many Jagens get to abuse (being insta-silver) is rendered moot since everyone and their mother has 7 wlv or higher (everyone relevant that is cuz lol 7th platoon). Gunter can function as a pair up bot at the very least.
Yeah, but I don't think that that makes Arran or FE1!Jagen worse, it just makes other units better (like Caeda for example), because even with iron weapons they can still contribute a lot. I'm pretty sure that FE1!Jagen can stay relevant for the entire game if you feed him a speedwing and an angelic robe.
Renoud oh yeah FE1!Jagen is great. Another one of Arran's issues is the fact that Book 2 is very cavalry unfriendly when it comes to terrain. This compounded by the fact that base stats are astronomically high in FE3 and the fact that everyone can use silvers just makes it so he contributes even less than Gunter.
Ziggy McDougal I still think that Arran is pretty decent, he's not super great like Dadgar of FE7!Marcus but he can still work. The thing about him is that, as you said, so many people can outclass him.
Renoud oh yeah, I do not think that Arran is a bad unit in the context of FE3, despite his flaws. But when it comes to comparing him with other Jagens, he doesn't really hold up. Even then, the worst Jagen is still a useful unit. And even if you count Gunter, he can still function well as a pair up bot.
One disagreement Felicia and Jakob are treated as regular units rather than Oifeys since they don't have higher than average stats
The problem is that they've been so "loose" with some of their archetypes throughout the series that people could make the argument that they're just not paladins with the pre-promote bases but still Oifeys since they are technically pre-promotes, fulfill the guide/advisor niche early on, and have some good growths and even further out level caps, but yeah it's definitely beginning to enter a gray area
You know what? That actually makes a lot of sense considering if you look at an Oifey's character and Felicia and Jakob's and their relation to the main lord (a devoted servant) along with being a pre promote despite their tier 1 bases
+Foxocommand o: Tier 1 bases never really mattered much for Jagens. After all, look at the OG Jagen, who manages to last all game despite possessing Tier 1 bases.
I remember playing FE7 for the 1st time and using marcus as pretty much my only character, then learning other characters were good and using a level 3 lowen in chapter 23
2:29 Ah, I see. Would you say that Emmeryn falls under the Jagen archetype too, then?
2:13 Frey literally does that canonically
I love analyzing the archetypes to see how they are different than one another. I like the video. Keep up the series.
When Sigurd is a double arch type, both Jagen and Marth at the same time.
I should point out Frey is the canonical sacrifice and his Help text and support conversations in FE12 mention him taking a terrible wound to help Marth escape from Altea to Talys during th War of Shadows. In case that wasn’t clear. So they do explain what happened to the Shadow Dragon sacrifice and canonically name who it was.
The red and green characters in echoes are Lukas and Foresyth
You ever notice that fe6 reused a lot of fire emblem 1 desgins and story
ImmaLittlePip And the fact that it copied many of Fe5's map design? Yep
I sure like having a healer, blue haired pegasus Knight, a pair of useless axe users, Lord, a green haired knight, shitty archer, a scarred mercenary who is good, my lord, and a shitty green haired archer by Chapter 2.
This is the main problem I would have with a Binding Blade remake. The fact that so much of the Binding Blade cast consists of blatant knockoffs of Shadow Dragon characters will make it awkward to play with full voice acting and actual personalities. I think that's why so much of the Binding Blade cast will probably never show up in Heroes, as their original Shadow Dragon counterparts already appeared in the game.
I'd hope they would make Guinevere a campaign unit and make her and Lilina Lords. For Heroes I guess you could make Miledy a lance unit as opposed to Minerva's Axe. Still for characters like Rutger... not much way to make him different from Navarre and Lon'qu. Same with Dieck and Ogma.
ew275x don’t forget an edgy myrmidon and a red wyvern rider girl. And literally just Jagen
Nice, would love to see more of these Archetype videos. If you're looking for suggestions, I'd really dig a comparison video on the Caeda archetype.
I think i'll just copy and paste this from now on.
The Jagen and Oifey split honestly makes no sense to me whatsoever. People make the distinction by saying "Oifey's are Jagen's but good," which is one of the most inaccurate claims i've ever heard. If you need a couple of examples, many claim that Seth from FE8 is an Oifey as apposed to FE11 Jagen, who is a "true Jagen." But is there a noticable difference between the two? Not really. They are both the most powerful unit of your starting roster, have access to powerful silver weapons, and are relevant for about 22 chapters or so (with and without growths). Now compare FE11!Jagen to say Oifey from FE4 who has his uses, but is ultimately sidelined in favor of better gen 2 units such as Seliph, Ares, and Leif. The lack of holy weapons (Leif has the rescue staff which gives him utility outside of combat), as well as rather mediocre starting weaponry ultimately sets him back behind FE11!Jagen. Now one counterexample is usually never enough, so I draw attention towards another "Oifey" in the form of Arran from Book 2 (who has the option of starshards which boost growth rates.) Sadly, despite the fact that many of his growths can be pushed beyond 50-60%, he is considered the weakest early prepromote in the series. Contrast that with Dagda, who comes from a game with similar growth boosting mechanics, and the difference is quite noticeable. Dagda is relevant even in endgame thanks to his crazy bases and charge. I would bring up some examples from Berwick Saga, but it's hard to contextualize bases and growths in that game, but I digress. In short, the Oifey archetypes aren't strictly better than the Jagen archetype, and "true Jagens" have shown to extend their usefulness throughout the entire game. As such, I kinda feel that the "Oifey" archetype means nothing and should be done away with. That's just my 2cents. Still enjoyed the watch.
Ziggy McDougal holy shit,it's zig! I may have never talked to you while you were on amino,but I heard a lot of stuff about you. I hope you will comeback one day and there will be discussions about units' usability again on amino
Ziggy McDougal I mean, yeah Jagen’s good In fe11 because you can forge a ridder’s bane, but:
A: The archetype is named after fe1 Jagen, whose bases are barely better than Cain, Able, and I think worse than Harden’s, but Jagen has nonexistent growths, so they’re all better than him pretty quickly.
B: even in Shadow dragon, he’s just blatantly worse than Harden, and Able can pass him by once he gets c rank in lances. Jagen’s main advantage compared to those 2 is that he can reclass to Dracoknight, but by chapter 10, he’s getting completely outclassed by Minerva, and whoever you promote, likely Harden or Ceada.
The idea of an Oifey is that they’re relevant until endgame, which A pure Jagen isn’t. It’s a pretty cut and dry distinction.
Jonah J The ridersbane forge does keep him relevant for much longer than you make it out to be. Considering he also joins promoted, he can go straight to Draco asap unlike your starting units and even Hardin who need to wait until chapter 10 for the first master seal, as well as requiring some wexp grinding. And I know it isn't exactly the best metric, but Jagen is literally the reason why H5 is even doable, given how he is the only unit who can reliably take down those first three bosses (hell even Marth can get ORKO'd since Gazzak has a nasty habit of fluxing to 11 AS instead of 10.)
Ziggy McDougal don't forget that the first master seal you get will most likely be used on caeda
Jonah J and again, there are units classified under the nonsensical Oifey archetype such as Sothe and even Oifey himself who have less endgame potential than "pure" Jagens like Dagda, Ward, and Marcus. Speaking of which, endgame isn't the only part of FE. If a unit is reliable in other parts in FE, then they are worth some investment at the very least. Then you get to the fact that endgame happens to be the easiest part of every FE game save FE12.
I wouldn't consider Gunter a Jagen because he "dies" in the begginning
*Spoiler Warning*
But he comes back much later
From personal experience if the Jagen is a senior citizen or named Sothe they are not worth using. But the young ones like Seth, Titania, Frederick, and Oifey were all amazing.
Good vid man. I wish your videos were longer because they are so good and I want MOAR. Keep it up bud.
This is going to be a great series
This series is cool. I'd love to see more of it! I'm glad you co-hosted that one video with Mangs, that's how I found you. One little thing from my first impressions of you, don't put so much "care" into how people will react to you. There is no way in heck you'll ever avoid making SOMEBODY upset. I had to learn this for myself and my opinions too, such as the fact that I love armor knights and generals. People get so rude and abusive over opinions in the FE community, such a shame. Anyway, I love the FE games so I'll grab as much content on them as I can off RUclips and the internet. Thanks and I look forward into watching more of your content!
Welcome aboard, thanks so much for checking us out. Yeah I know I'm not ever going to satisfy everyone, I just figured it would be fun to break the 4th wall a little here and pre-emptively dismiss some of the comments I knew I'd be getting, unfortunately though some people just nitpicked some other things instead lol
Seth Always have a very Warm spot for me. Being the most Op Early Pre-Promote and even overshadowing most of the cavs even in late game.
Loved the video. You did miss a few Jagen like characters though. One of them being Wendell, from Shadow Dragon. He starts as a sage and has pretty bad growths. Another two are Mycen and Nomah from Fe Echoes. There may be a few more, just can't thing of any right now. Overall enjoyed the video, keep up the good work!
Mycen and Nomah are not Jagens. They join very late into the game at points where their high stats are unimpressive and their awful growths render them superfluous. The definition of a Jagen is not simply "a unit with good bases and bad growths". Availability is the most important aspect of a Jagen, if you ask me. Joining early is what allows Jagens to contribute meaningfully (along with the fact that they usually have great movement and high weapon ranks). Units like Mycen and Nomah that are similar to Jagens but don't join until the last few chapters of the game are called Gotohs: units that only exist as a failsafe to prevent the game from becoming unbeatable. No matter how weak your final team is, you should be able to win with a Gotoh on your side. However, if you already have a strong team, they likely won't be very useful and may not contribute at all, unlike Jagens, which tend to be useful for most if not all of the game. Characters of this archetype include Gotoh from Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light, Ced and Galzus from Thracia 776, Karel from Binding Blade, Athos from Blazing Blade, Nagi from Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, and Basilio and Flavia from Awakening.
Lol i liked that nerd grammar Daien joke. Merlinus is my favorite Jaigen 😎.
Jaigens are the funniest - some people overuse them and then get raped, others get raped for not using them at all. Optimally just give them some weapon that should hit but not kill enemy for newbies to finish, kinda treating him like a teacher unit.
Nice video dude! Lovin the new videos
Keep up the great work Lucky Crit I will always love your videos
I used Marcus in FE7 a lot and he was very powerful at the end of the game.
That's normal. FE7 Marcus is OP as fuck with his high movement, high weapon levels, superb bases, acceptable growth rates, ability to control the weapon triangle, and the fact that FE7 enemies are complete pushovers. Eliwood Normal Mode is so easy that Marcus can solo the entire game with ease, and even in Hector Hard Mode, he only needs a few stat boosters to remain relevant up until endgame. Even if his combat starts to fall off, he's still a Paladin with Canto, 8 MOV, and 14 Aid, so he can transition into an excellent utility unit that can rescue most of your other units to help them reach destinations more quickly.
All these years...I called Jagen Jegan.
Fair
Dang, I was thinking of making pretty much the exact same kinds of videos haha. Glad you beat me to it though -- quality content as usual. Keep it up! :)
Doesn't mean you can't! Good luck if you do. That's what's fun about this series, there's so much to talk about! Thanks for watching!
We need the Christmas characters next
And the week fliers
You're really underplaying just how good most Jagen's bases are. I won't go into a ton of detail because I would be repeating a lot of what people like Mekkah have said before, but even if a prepromote has just okay stats like Isadora, an 8 move mounted unit can always contribute in ways other than combat, whether it's moving items, visiting villages, or ferrying units around with rescue/pairup/shelter. FE7 Marcus in HHM and Seth are relevant into the endgame in 0% growths. Even in games like FE6 where the early game prepromote does fall off, you can always replace them; You get Zealot right when Marcus starts to have trouble. Difficulty in FE games is usually front-loaded(see Awakening for an extreme example) and Jagens are the most useful at that time because the gap between your units and enemies is still very small. They don't need any experience to be good, and don't cost a promotion item. Experience doesn't need to be managed very closely, and for an unpromoted unit one kill is only about a third of the way to a chance to get +1 to some stats. Unpromoted units usually can't handle nearly as many enemies as a prepromote too, so you're not really wasting exp if they couldn't do it on their own anyway. Also, if you're using a Jagen long-term(maybe replacing them with another prepromote later) you can give other units like usually-good early game pegasus knights more kills without delaying your other units' promotions, e.g. if you have 4 kills, Kent and Florina both need 2 but Marcus is fine with 0 or 1, so Florina can get 3 or 4 and promote earlier.
Basically, don't worry about exp loss and use prepromotes if you want to make the game easier or faster. Growths are completely unnecessary for a unit to be great. Not using early game prepromotes is considered a challenge for a reason! They are way stronger than many people make them out to be and should be used freely, but it's still usually not a good idea to solo several maps with your Jagen unless their name is Seth.
Your point is true about Jagens being 50% of the game but then there is Endgame.
You can't count Seth here because you can grind on FE 8, meaning everything is a cakewalk there.
I like this new show! When's the full series gonna start? *prepares to hit the subscribe button*
Great video! I always thought the Frederick memes were funny in Awakening. :D
I remember how I was having a lot of trouble with FE5 the first time I was playing it when I refused to use any promoted units and ended up quitting. After using Dagdar, the man is ridiculous and one of the best units in the game, and for capturing too. Surprisingly, the basic enemies in FE5 are pretty shit, he can still ORKO some enemies in Chapter 24 with the Hero Axe and base stats, and you could even give him the Speed Ring or scrolls to make him competitive late as well. Dagdar a beast for the whole game.
Hey hey, I know you! Back in late 2015/early 2016 I watched a fair bit of your FE12 LP while I was bored -at work- . Me likey. Welcome!
Please make more if these they're really good!
*of
Ah the Jagen archetype, it’s pretty interesting, so nice video
Hmm..Can I say one thing?
In Shadow Dragon, the sacrificial unit (Canonically, Frey) survives. The unit in question isn't killed (As if they were, you could have used an Aum staff), but is instead brutally injured and lost his memories. It takes the character until the end of The War of Shadows (What the whole thing is called in-universe) in order to fully recover and reunite with Marth.
This provides a convenient excuse as for why Frey wasn't in the original Fire Emblem, although it doesnt quite explain why he doesnt appear in Mystery of the Emblem (Although, my guess is that in the Original version, neither managed to escape to rejoin Marth)
My main problem with Fates Conquest and Revelations was that I felt like I NEEDED to use my Jagens, both Gunter and the prince(s) you get later (who are at least Oifeys because of how little XP they get at first and how high their stats are). It felt like they were the only characters who could fight sometimes (the fight in Izumo comes to mind), and thus felt like their 1 XP gain was sucking it all away from my other characters for no benefit.
I love you, and this video is fantastic, but please no more bobbing and wiggling character portraits. They make me think I'm getting a migraine. Seriously, it's a really uncomfortable feeling.
Damn LOL
I... never realized that could be doing that to people. There's definitely a lot of it in this video. I've started doing it within the past few months as a way to break up the "lol stare at Boey's unmoving artwork for 45 seconds" and thought it provided a nice visual when characters "breathe" but I can definitely see where you're coming from. :|
Lucky Crit Yeah, it's a weird complaint, but it looks exactly like my migraine auras (aka "swimming vision"). I understand why you do it though. Perhaps slight parallax motion between the characters and background (like you're slowly walking past them), or subtle particle effects instead?
I'll see what I can do moving forward. Quick question though, if you've seen my other recent videos (like the How to pronounce Tharja video) did it bother you then? Or was it just because there was A LOT of it in this video? Or maybe just the specificity of the movement in this one did it
Lucky Crit Any video that had wiggling in it was an issue (I do recall Tharja giving me trouble specifically). I just held back commenting because I didn't want to bitch about it until I'd ruled out other causes (ie, bad mood, tension headache, etc).
I really appreciate your concern, though. If you can't find a way to fix it, that's cool; I can just listen with the window minimized. Putting these videos together is probably exhausting, and I'd hate to disrupt your creative process just because Bouncy Jaegan made me nauseous.
Back when I played Shadow Dragon for the first time, I didn't sacrifice Jagen. I stupidly chose Cain, because I thought Frey was pretty cool. But even then, Jagen remained a helpful unit throughout the game. He was good for choking points due to his strength and Silver Lance early on, and he was good for chipping away at other enemies so I could level up my weaker units.
What about Seth? I always considered him to be an Oifey due to his decent stat growths and his early game carry potential.
Seth is so awesome in Sacred Stones that he can pretty much carry the entire game if you let him. In one of my earliest playthroughs, the only time I saw him die was to Formortiis, and that was me playing poorly.
To answer your question how Jegan survived in FE1 and came back? He got captured, not killed.
Nice vid as always,but anyway Jagen simply returns because he isn't the canon sacrifice on FE11, it's Frey and he does survive (the only one to survive if chosen as sacrifice) xD But yeah, the starter Paladin/promoted character is most of the time pretty poor in growths, the only good one I know of is Seth from FE8, he kinda stay good if leveled up,guess that's thanks to being an Oifey instead of a Jagen type :P
Oifeys don't exist.
There's no bad Jagen. Play FE 12 Maniac and try not to use Athena in prologue or Arran.
That maybe,but as I usually play first on normal,I always found bad luck in leveling Jagen's type,to the point I discard them for other units,since the % for them to get better stats is far higher.
More of this plz !!!
motherfuckin' Seth... gets injured early on in the game and still remains in the top 5 growth rates. Total badass dude. Sacred Stones remake when?
Jagen was recont to never die in favour of having the new guy in shadow dragon take his place I think
I like hearing about archetypes. It would be nice if you could explain more. :D
Also, is there some kind of list of ALL the generally agreed-upon archetypes in Fire Emblem games? I know there's the main lord, the villain, Jagen, Est, Cain/Abel, Beowulf... but I don' t know the others. *shrug*
Are you going to address archetypes that are more story connected as well? For example, there's the whole peg knight who has a crush on the main lord recurring theme.
The Strategist Minks I like to call that the Catri archtype as it starts with Catria. Then there's Palla. I love her, but damn. Get over your brother-in-law. He's already with Est.
Exactly, some others include Clair having a crush on Alm, Tana on Ephraim, and Cordelia on Chrom (I would argue that Sumia has a crush on Chrom as well it's just more subtle.) And the main lord is almost always oblivious to it. In fact that just seems like a commom theme in Japanese literature and stories in general.
Awesome video as always, but wouldn't Sirius be considered an Oifey too?
And now in 2023 we have Vander. Possibly the Jagenest Jagen since the original
I like this video idea! It's really cool but can I request that you don't make the art of the characters warp and move when showing them I find it kind of distracting.
I'm getting a lot of complaints on this video about it so I'll either tone it down or stop it. The intention was to make it seem like the characters were breathing and make it more visually interesting or more lively/animated but perhaps there's just way too much here
Lucky Crit thank you for the reply I really like the video!
The cool thing about gunter is that he can go above lvl.20 I think mine is about lvl.23
THERE'S A POSSIBILITY IT'S PRONOUNCED YAY-GEN IN THE WEST!
*fixes glasses*
I really like both archetypes, honestly.
Do the Camus archetype next please
My usage of Jeigans can be summed up as this thought process:
"Is it the Dawn Brigade?" Yes: Fuck em. No: It's just a bird.
"Can I kill it with anyone else?" Yes: use someone else. No: "Can I gang up on it safely and kill it that way?" Yes: Gang up strats. No: Use Jaegen. "Is it a very tough boss that can't be ganged up on safely?" Throw Jeigan at it.
Basically, if they can contribute, let them contribute. They're there to be used people.
Sorry I may be late commenting on this video, but Titania is my favorite jagen archetype, in radiant dawn she becomes a goddess with the third promotion gold knight
I was about to say "There are a lot more of those jagens, why you ending that there?" before the sub jagens or something
In Three Houses, Catherine, Sharim, Manuela and Hanneman are technically Oifey-type characters.
Lol I choose Jagen to sacrifice as well just because I thought shoot if someone has to die it better be the old guy who only has a few years left anyways haha.
The lightning sword is a Jagen.
Are you going to discuss the Est Archetypes?
I'm sure I will at some point if people keep enjoying this series! Stay tuned!
OK, but what's a Mini-Jeigan? I heard it's one of the favorite archetypes for this pitfall guy.
It's a Jagen but not a Jagen.
Would Catherine of 3 Houses be considered a Jagen despite joining later and being a Swordmaster?
Awesome vid, keeo going ma dude
I typically just keep Jaegans as an emergency button: If I screw up, send him in to pull the weaker units out.
Except in Fates. Gunter is a powerful unit to start, but so is Corrin. Also Corrin remains useful later on.
So I just disarm Gunter and give his weapon to whoever else can use them, because I'll just use Corrin. He can pull the weaker guys out, AND still benefit himself.
Also didn't use Felicia past reclassing her until, having an enemy out of range, I let her attack with a magic bow and she one-shot them after not using her half the game.
Yagen is the man, Jagen is the archetype.
Kind of a nooby question, but is Gunter a Jagen?
Edit: goddamnit. Welcome back, Silas
Ps is the U pronounced as in rUm or as in Uganda?
oifey is jeigan but his minor bloodline gives him a decent growths which started his own sub-archtype which is
in FE4 they made the jeigan the lord himself in first generation
in FE7 marcus is oifey and the most usefull jeigan seth from FE8 i rarely bench him and some playthroughs i bench everyone and only use him and ephraim ☺️
I haven't see the video yet and still think is better than that infamous channel and this top 10 architypes.
Edit: I was right until the end
What went wrong at the end?
Lucky Crit from you nothing, this video was amazing as always
Seth is so God d*** useful even as Jagen. Seth is a God send and a result of a Jagen+DualXmasCavalier
Actually using the jeigan character in the beginning of the game is a good idea because they are good from start and don't need investment to be it so the common thought that using then is bad for the player is stupid and we all know bases are better that grows
thought you would also add Quan among them
In regards to Jagen being the sacrificial lamb, I think that Frey was the canonical choice.
2:40 (?) Who is the pink archer girl?
Atrie Prower norne
One of my faves from FE11: Shadow Dragon, Norne. She's an archer you can only recruit from Gaiden chapters in that game (Clear the Prologue with 4 units or less surviving)
An excellent unit you get for sucking at the game (like every gaiden chapter of Shadow Dragon since you only unlock them if you lose a LOT of units)
Actually, Gordin is better.
It's a shame that units like Athena, Norne and Frey require a player to literally lose units.
Gotta say though it was kinda funny just purposely sending random characters to their deaths so i could have a look at every chapter.
How about Tauroneo, or Sigurd? Sigurd is a little different, as he's also the main character, but he is absolutely broken on the early game, and is actually taken out before mid game, simulating a decline in potential.
You should do some more vids like this 😊
in fire emblem 7 the jeigan is wallace, marcus is an oifey. even that you could choose not promote only in hard prologe, still is not a good unit when you recover wallace if you do it and when is promoted in the prologe apart of killing everything, it just stole experience. in hard is better giving the promotion to saint or kent, and then go to the geitz route.
I was planning on making a series like this. Damn it...
pretty sure the sacrificed unit comes back using the staff of Marth's sister.
I'm not familiar with fire emblem so when he said Boey I just thought he meant Bowie and got excited...
when i 1st played PoR (my very 1st FE game), i really did appreciate Titania since she was such a crutch character that helped me beat the game. i didnt know how barracks worked at the time and just gave Titania w/e weapon the enemy dropped. on the jail chapter (10), i "had" to beat it with Titania wielding a steel lance with 7 uses left lmao. lucky for me that Laguzes dont need weapons as i cheesed through the game with them.
and as i replayed the game many times, ive learned to rely less on Titania (and the laguzes) & then never using her again (except hard mode, i sort of used her). so, "Jagens" are really beginner friendly, but just dont overuse them XD.
Sp0okeh Sometimes, I find it fun just to steam roll the game. Also, you pretty much have to have Dagdar fight in 8x 'cause he and Tanya have to fight and Tanya cannkt fight well...
What i do with my jagens is i use them as human Shields the earlier chapters and then in the later chapters I just don't use them at all
pitfall.
There are only 3 Jagen i used is Marcus fe7, Seth and Titania