Okay the biggest question.. What should I do with it? I could harvest some goodies for the black R32 and scrap/sell the rest. Or Fix and flip... Also if you crave more VR6 goodness ~ ruclips.net/video/OWsa1ItELyM/видео.html
I think parting it out is the best option to recoop the money if the interior is worth saving. If the panels and doors are not rusted out their will be rebuilders looking for it. Engine will cost you at least 2k plus all the little parts and who knows what kind of engine that is. So.... are these worth like 8-10k for a flip? I know, in the late 90s we would be all jacked up for a GTI but they have lost their charm, to me at least.
Hmm…depends on how bad the rest of the car is. If it’s falling apart on the inside Then it’s not worth saving. Still cool to see it as part of a series regardless. Thanks for going through the painful process for our viewing pleasure. Man I miss wrenching on cars
Mann, for $500 & with the body as clean as it looks. It’s definitely worth throwing a junkyard engine and probably reselling it. I wish I could find a fixer upper mk4 for $500. Everyone still wants $3k for a rotted out blown up mk4 around here smh.
Had the same guide fail on my engine at 100k. Stopped running immediately and replaced all the guides and timing chain. 10k later spun a connecting rod bearing. I think it was a plastic piece that bypassed the oil pickup tube of the oil pump. VW knew this was a problem and at least should have redesigned that guide. The other guides were in good shape. If any vr6 owner reads this replace this guide at 80-90k. All you have to do is remove the top timing chain cover. No transmission removal. I think the other guides will last at least 150k miles, maybe longer. Chain stretch might hit its limit before the other guides.
@@rayludwig3893 when I replaced the timing chain and guides only the upper guide, opposing the upper tensioner guide, was bad. It was in pieces, but the engine was still in time. The engine sounded like marbles rattling in a can. I have the afp engine (2001). The lower timing chain and guides looked like they could go another 100k. The upper tensioner guide had little wear. VW should have redesigned the guide. Even a new one just does not feel strong. My plan on my overhauled engine is about 80-90k is to remove the upper intake and valve cover. Lock the cams with the tool and remove the upper timing cover. The guide can be removed by removing a bolt and pulling it out of the perch or bolt in the lower timing cover. The upper tensioner could be replaced and I think the other guides would be good until the next 80-90k. I bought the car new and changed the oil regularly so sludge was never a problem.
@@MrWoowootila I got a 2002 24v vr6 Jetta with 102,000 kms has some marble sound. Not really feeling like removing the transmission. Just ordered the upper guide and tensioner bolt. Hope that fixes it. Doing the crack pipe and thermostat housing while in I’m there as well.
@@rayludwig3893 I would buy the aftermarket aluminum thermostat housing and crack pipe. My original plastic housing starting seeping shortly after buying the car new and replaced it the aftermarket housing. At 100k the plastic housing was brittle and worn at the mating surface. The 24v has some redesigned guides and suppose to last longer, but I have no experience. I know the 24v guide that bolts down with two bolts instead of one. I think you can still replace it without removing the lower timing cover and transmission. The 24v also has a guide between the cam sprockets that the 12v does not. Note on the 12v the rattle you could be hearing is the changeover valve. I am not sure the 24v has it. If it was me I would take off the intake manifold, valve cover, lock the cams with special tool and remove the upper timing chain cover. If that guide is broken you found the rattle otherwise it is the changeover valve in the intake manifold if the BDF engine you have has one. If the chain is not too beat up just replace the upper guides. If the guide is in pieces, pull the oil pan remove the pieces in the oil pan and oil pump pickup screen. Also look down into the lower timing cover for pieces. From my experience and from what I have read in forums the lower guides and chains last a long time. Mine had little to no wear at 100k. A broken upper guide piece could do damage, but mine did not. You will have to seal the timing cover and oil pan. The VW sealant sets like in 15-20 minutes. My experience was too fast, especially with all the bolts. I used Permatex optimum black on the timing cover and oil pan. It cures in about 24 hours and I have never had a leak with the stuff. It gives you more time than the VW sealant. I removed the engine to do all the chains and guides. The vr6 is so tightly packed in the engine compartment you do not have a lot of room to remove the transmission. The mechanical coolant pump needs to have the engine raised or lowered to make space to remove it. I just pulled the engine and did everything. Water pump, front and rear seals, coolant hoses, thermostat, housing and crack pipe. I also replaced the clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder, throw out bearing and starter. The clutch components could of easily made it to 100k, but I rather spend over $200 now than try to work in a tight engine compartment in the near future. Good luck.
@@ch0wned ^^^ what he said. I a gti vr6 just like this one. And man is it a pain. Best thing about it is the sound of the engine, and the fact that you can put a mk3 steel oil pan on it instead of the mk4 aluminum one. Other than that it’s a pain
@@JaredsGarage Most mechanics I know aren't into working on their own stuff after doing it as a paying gig all day all week all year. But you go on telling yourself whatever you need to.
It's funny how they always say it's got a timing chain, needs no service when timing belts can last more than 100k km without issues but with chains it always has some tensioner or guide failure..
Pause at 12:53 and have a closer look. Gap between the bumper and fender indicate possible collision repair. Aftermarket tow attachment indicative of the car possibly having a history of being tracked. Uneven line between the passenger door and lower frame of the car indicate potentially other collision damage. Worst of all; purple tint. When I see that, I stereotype the prior owner as someone who generally threw the cheapest parts possible at a car to barely keep it running, then drove the car like they stole it, until the day it had to be towed to a salvage yard. Speculating the owner did not spend extra money on more expensive G12 coolant. If so, imagine that nightmare. Imagine the condition of the clutch. Shift linkage bushings under the stick are most likely close to destroyed if not destroyed. If the owner operated the car on a budget, they probably used 85 octane in a car that calls for 91 octane. How does that impact fuel injectors. We haven't seen the suspension and interior. Maybe for good reason. No telling the condition of the electrical system. The car looks like a rapidly depreciating money pit. On the bright side, the VW emblem and mirror caps look nice.
@@RedondoBeach2 just becaused it's washed doesn't mean its kept in good condition. Just the mere fact that the retard who owned it didn't know of timing chain failures and kept cranking it a hundred times in the hopes that it would suddenly come back alive - tells you a lot. That is the reason probably why charles didn't even want to spend the money on parts to get it working again. Plus all the broken connectors, loose battery. The bodywork is in good nick, it could just be well looked after until the past owner had it and caused all that neglect and damage in their short period of ownership.
That failure looks eerily similar. My E46 BMW had the same type of failure. Surprisingly, the engine still ran, but it was NOT HAPPY. The timing chain guide was shredded like it was tossed in a blender, and the debris clogged the oil pump pickup. I'm frankly amazed there wasn't major engine damage.
different with the vanos units on the e46 they can adapt the cam timing enough not to cause to much catastrophic damage to an extent and throw codes for timing etc same as the r56 mini / peugeot engines witll come up with vanos adaptation stop kinda codes etc,
Love the content Charles, I've been around 12v's for 15 years and I always learn something new from you! I hope you get another 12v do a little refresh and get this running again, I am sure we will all learn from you!
You learn something everyday, I never knew they did a 12v VR6 in a Mk4, I guess only in the US, as all MK4 in Europe with a V6 engine were 24v and 4motion,
Oh man I had a very similar issue with my timing belt on my 84 1.6 diesel. Had a plastic bit fly out of my timing cover and lodged itself in the gear tearing a 3cm hole in the belt. stretching it just enough to cause an engine out. But not enough to bend the valves! That was a very lucky day. One timing belt change later and she still ticks :) good luck figuring out what to do with this beauty!
❤ Love it! $100 buck I paid! 2001 VW Golf GTI VR6 with 287000km. Not even close to the damage of your engine. Cost me total of 5400 to certify for the road. It was a great rehab project for me, Service Manual books I had and followed
Great teardown. Long timing chains are not no worrys. A maintained timing belt might have been a smarter engineering choice. But 220 K, somebody has driven this thing to ground. Good analysis that the broken chain guide pieces plugged up the oil pump intake. Throw away car, get another.
Fix it please. The only VR6 I ever owned was a 1994 Passat GLX VR6 with a 5-speed manual transmission. Nice car. Sprinkled a bit of the Neuspeed catalog on it while I owned it. Was looking for a VR6 Corrado before I bought it. I have a soft spot in my heart for these engines. Love the channel!
This reminds me of when the timing belt guide on my car just completely broke off and the belt was going into the plastic cover making marks everywhere. Thankfully it was caught before any major damage
I just bought a MKIV R32 last year that jumped timing because the nylon guides broke. Bent most of the valves, and all of the intermediate gear teeth (chain) were broke, but none of the pistons were damaged. I lapped new valves in, replaced connecting rod bearings (probably didn't need to, but they looked worn), and it runs like new. Had no damage to the cams or caps either. I'd scrap this engine and load in a 3.2 from a touareg.
It would be nice if you could find another VR6 that was totalled without engine damage and just snag the engine. I always wonder how compatible newer models of the same car are. For example if you had an engine from a very new VW could you swap it in and maybe change out the ECU? Great tear down! Super informative and a short textbook on things to look for.
You can put any engine in any car that it fits in. You’ll need to do a TON of rewiring, all new electronics, and in most cases you’ll need a new transmission to mate up to the new engine though.
I had a black 1997 GTI VR6 that I bought new in Dallas and man it was an awesome car, corned like it was on rails and 3rd gear + was amazing. It was fast but not quick if you take my meaning. Traded it in on a 2002 Jetta when we had a couple little girls!
OUCH! AutoZone "Nucor" lists a VR6 head complete with valves for $600-$750. An OEM head at a Cokumbis, Ohio dealership website lists a head for $1,142. VW is even more proud of it's parts than Toyota is with my 1999 Solara 3.0 V6 part prices...😶
failure diagnosis based on the ridiculous amount of VR6s ive cracked open and rebuilt: chain guides failed first, causing the long term wear against that stud on the front side of the block, causing extra wear on the cam gears. plastic bits from the guides partially plugged up the oil pick-up, starving the upper portion of the engine of oil, which caused the cam to start chewing up the bearings. cam seizes up. chain flops over the gear chewing the one side off, both from lots of cranking and possibly from winding down from driving while it's in gear (vr6 autos often have less valve smashing because the transmission doesnt keep spinning the crank after the failure) ive seen MANY older watercooleds that ended up with starvation and locking the cam up in the head.
Hello Charles. I love your channel and most of your videos, especially the ones where you do major repairs or rebuild engines. I have a Mark 4 with a 1.9 TDI ASV engine and I would really like to see some video of these engines. Greetings from Spain.
The worn gear teeth have a shark fin shape. You will often see the same shape teeth on worn bicycle sprockets and chainrings. The timing chain system is similar to a bicycle chain in that it has a tension side (on top) and a slack side (on bottom) which is keep tight by a rear derailleur (the tensioner).
I'm 61, and I have a 20 year old 2003 GTI VR6 24v, with about 124,000 miles on it that has served me very well. Original and only owner, garaged, car driven almost daily (normally, not hard driven) but on mostly short in town trips, some 500 mile highway trips twice a year. Had the dealership change the oil once a year (Castrol Edge) all these years, and an independent VW specialist has been putting Liquid Moly in it for about 2 years now. The car runs and shifts very well, leather interior still looks great, etc. I've never needed to change the chains on it yet. How long can I expect the chains to last on this model VR6? Would the engine give me audible warnings that the chains are going? Thanks.
Since youve kept up maintenance it could last a very long time. Guides will wear with age even with good oiling. I know on my car (im the 2nd owner) the chain was done at 200k before he sold it to me and it didn't give him issue. Id start saving your pennies for the repair and do it whenever you get the urge to do so, cuz i've seen them fail with less than 60k due to poor maintenance and seen em go 200k like in my car.
Ride sounds nice. There is no way to know if plastic chain guides die from heat or age. Only way to prevent the total engine destruction in this video is to have the timing chain components inspected and changed before death noises. In this case, you have to fix it before it beaks. You have to pay repairs, but worth it if you like your car. Timing chains are time bombs.
In my experience with a 2015 GTI that lost its timing chain tensioner and nearly locked up the engine, it gave me zero audible warning before chipping the guides and sputtering.
I should clarify that any inspection from a VW tech probably would’ve prevented the tensioner from ever getting that bad to begin with, but since I like turning wrenches, it never made it in for its yearly tech inspection like VW (and all manufacturers) recommends.
yeah my heart says keep it, there’s not many vr6 12v on the road these days. i have a tropic orange vr6 12v gti like this and I absolutely love it. it was interesting to see what I have to look forward to in 60,000 miles or so.. crate motor.
Mk4 is one of the last reliable VW I still have mine with 1.9 TDI 150 hp 160k miles A pleasure to drive it. Today’s thermal cars are so sad in europa now… Greetings from 🇧🇪
Great post-mortem. That's a very sad Panda :( Shame as the body looks good. Really interesting to hear your comments on the state of those bearing surfaces. Cheers!
Without knowing the condition of the rest of the car, it does look fairly good, I would swap out the engine. Lots of work, but the end result is always rewarding. Thanks, RickGTI….. 🌴
Hey Charles - you already striped it to the short block. Might as well try to find anther motor and flip it. Not sure what the resale values are in your part of the country, but it might be worth it. You basically paid nothing for the car anyways. Would make for some interesting videos to bring it back from the dead. Cheers!
Def save the car and make it nice. I love my 02 1.8t Gti. Going on 10 years with it. Best car I’ve owned. They all have issues. Just gotta keep up with it.
You should do some 1.9/2.0 tdi PD Stuff too! Dissasembly, tuning and servicing! I’m in scandinavia and we have tons of mk4 tdi’s and they have rumor of being so easy to get torque from.. and vr5’s are getting extremely rare and more attractive for enthusiast. atleast over here. Great videos though!
Its hard to say this as its "Exxtreeeeeem Sadness" to me. But let's face it, financially this is will be hard to recoup the cost from. I'd say part it out, you'll easily be able to get the cost from interior/ ancillaries ect. My vote would be to buy another MK3! You could look for another VR6 or my vote would be a GTI, and do a build series on either Super Charged (G60 set up would be epic!) or ITB setups. I know it's been done plenty of times but it would be super cool to see a professionally shot, edited and composed build. Plus from my dives into your videos you haven't done any Supercharged/ITB stuff so far. (But admittedly I'm pretty new to the channel so can't say for certain) Cheers for all your content Charles. You are ...without a shadow of a doubt... the best resource on RUclips for mechanics that I have found so far. You're incredibly detailed and thorough on your explanations, and have infallible indepth knowledge of alot of VAG platforms. I cannot thank you enough for your content.
That intake is the original VR6 intake that was supposed to go on the Corrado SLC in 1992, but cost cutting at the last minute removed it for a simple set of tubes. Schrick bought the rights to produce this intake, and it increases low end torque by a bunch! I had a '92 Corrado SLC and the low end was kind of weak. This intake would have allowed the cams to produce 200 hp with decent low end torque. Dammit! I wanted to buy that Scirocco with the VR6 engine!
Start doing a "customer questions" series where your viewers ask about their vw issues and you attempt to give guidence. My 2001 TDI has a strange sound when i shut it down. like its bleeding pressure off or something. No clue how to research it on tdiclub or youtubes... Always enjoy these videos you bring us!
Most likely the vacuum box leaking causing a mooing sound on shutdown. Don't worry about it too much until it fails completely. Symptoms will be no boost when it fails
I did almost 300 videos of exactly that. They never did great, but it was worth it for helping the community. Then RUclips started to punish my whole channel for low performing videos. Sad that you have to play the RUclips game.
@@HumbleMechanic Cool! To bad that isnt better watch content. I guess in hinsight that is what Scotty Kilmer does, but across all brands. Anyways, love your current content, so i wasnt suggesting a change of content, just an expansion or potential side episodes. You friggin rawk!
@@danielbrydon3869 Vacuum Pump Housing Gasket on the drivers side of the valve cover[i think is what you are suggesting]. I'll keep that in mind and check it tonight; thank you!
Other than the timing chain issue, they're practically bulletproof as long as you take care of them. This means using the proper oil and fuel and regular oil changes. I don't go past 5k on oil change intervals. Hands down the best daily driver I ever had is my 2001 GLX and I'll keep driving it for as long as I can.
Great video, Charles! I'd pull the trigger and pick up a motor for the car. This video makes me wanna tear down my old mk4 12v motor. I ended up just finding a good running motor that only had 60,000 original miles on it 2 years ago. Slapped that bad boy in and was nothing but problems. A few hundred dollars in sensors, new injectors, spark plugs, wires and coil and it's just as reliable as my 7.5 R, not quite fun but you can't make an ea888 sound like a vr
Man I always feel like TDI stuff is a no win for me. If I do it by the book, the TDI people come for mE because "There is a better way". If I do it the better way, they come for me "Thats not by the book". That and what TDI content I have done, does poorly. I really hate that's the case. .
I had a 12v Vr6- I got from customer who spun a rod bearing at 116k. Also had timing chain failures. I put in a $100 ‘95 obd1 Vr6 block into the Mk4 and it ran like a scalded cat and survived too many owners after me.
Sorry it could not be saved/repaired. Great teardown of the engine! and display of the damage. RUclipsr "IDOCARS" (136k subs) does this type of video as his main attraction.
Dude I miss the hell out of my Vr6… the chassis was dog shit and had every mk4 problem under the sun but my the Vr6 never skipped a beat… sat in my garage under a bunch of my mk7 parts…. Sold it for 3500 running and driving… 2 weeks later ended up buying a tornado red 2.0 5 speed wagon… once a mk4 tech always a mk4 tech bahah. 2.0 so simple and so easy.
Done a couple of head removals on linde fork trucks with this engine, 24v vvt, with burnt out ex valves ( LPG ), and some one, i dont know how, snapped a plug off, so removed head and got broken bit out without any damage, although a bit OTT in a forktruck they do sound great. Also had a mk4 golf with six speed manual with 1.9 PD tdi engine, best car i have ever owned, never a problem, apart from silly things, factory turbo and clutch 200,000 miles, although i did uprate intercooler.
yeah those are inference motors my cousin did his timing tensioner i told him be careful make sure your timing is right he was 1 tooth off on the intake side and tried to start it i went to help him put in the correct time the car had no compression cause he bent the valves from cranking on it 1 tooth out of time smh
Body looks like in good shape.. if you can lay hands on another engine, sure, wrap it up.. I'm sure there are some good parts on the vr6 that could be sold to people that need them and can recoup some money back.
2004 Passat 1.8T and one single broken connector is front tempature sensor connector, whole sensor is missing too 🤔 219k miles, multiple owners too but treated well, has every possible additional added, some from factory and small things retrofitted like interior, door panels with leather, seats leather, even dash and so on 😂 But 1.8t issues like vacuum leak somewhere and crank sensor living it's own life atm 🙄
$500 is a bargain for what you got!!! It's easily worth more than $2000 in parts. That being said, I believe it is definitely worth at least swapping in a good scrapyard engine. If you want to make make a video on a complete rebuild of an AFP VR6, it's not a bad idea. I know you've done plenty of videos on the AAA and BDF VR6s before.
I had to go back as see which ones I used. LOL amzn.to/3QtLvST This is what I used. But I got them WAY cheaper. like $15 for 4. Wait until it goes on sale.
hey charles, you're certainly an expert in building/diagnosing bad engines. but were these jobs routine when you were a tech? broken cam gears/chains/guides, etc. or was this sorta thing picked up from all the projects over the years
Hi charles. I think keep it. Finish the r32 turbo off. Then jump back to this 12v vr6. Nothing better then the vr engines. Working on em is just fun.. The 12v vr6, slam another engine in it. Am sure ull find 1 cheap. Lol. Wel what ever u choose. Good luck mate
I have seen the chain guides crack and the obd1 12 valve vr's old style tensioner cut to the metal backing lol oil filter looked like some one dropped a bag of glitter in it i think the worst vw engine fail I have seen was an old 8 valve they over heated it like racing or something and the plastic cam oil splash shield in the head melted and then went all over the motor. it was in the distributor gear area the pan just every where. yes the head gasket blew as well. for this poor vr find a replacement motor and pop it in cant beat the sound of a vr!
Okay the biggest question.. What should I do with it? I could harvest some goodies for the black R32 and scrap/sell the rest. Or Fix and flip... Also if you crave more VR6 goodness ~ ruclips.net/video/OWsa1ItELyM/видео.html
I say fix it, then maybe compare it to the blue r32 to see the differences in terms of acceleration and handling
I think parting it out is the best option to recoop the money if the interior is worth saving. If the panels and doors are not rusted out their will be rebuilders looking for it. Engine will cost you at least 2k plus all the little parts and who knows what kind of engine that is. So.... are these worth like 8-10k for a flip? I know, in the late 90s we would be all jacked up for a GTI but they have lost their charm, to me at least.
Hmm…depends on how bad the rest of the car is. If it’s falling apart on the inside
Then it’s not worth saving.
Still cool to see it as part of a series regardless. Thanks for going through the painful process for our viewing pleasure.
Man I miss wrenching on cars
Here is the obligatory "K-swap it" comment. 😛
But seriously, I would toss in some new bearings, slap on another head, and send it. It'll be fine.
EA888 Swap it! :)
Mann, for $500 & with the body as clean as it looks. It’s definitely worth throwing a junkyard engine and probably reselling it. I wish I could find a fixer upper mk4 for $500. Everyone still wants $3k for a rotted out blown up mk4 around here smh.
Everybody hates on the MK4 but it's still the best car I ever owned and I still miss mine. Drove it up to 300K km before I sold it...
For real and they are abused by idiot kids for their whole life. Im so sick of seeing TDIs with hood stacks. Idiots
Agreed… I’d love to watch you and Charles team up @BMSmouthers…. @humblemechanic you hear that?
Really? I bought one road legal for £800 (like $1100) not long ago. They're pretty cheap in the UK, GTi is actually cheaper than the 1.9TDI
@@SavedbyHimwho hates on the mk4
Had the same guide fail on my engine at 100k. Stopped running immediately and replaced all the guides and timing chain. 10k later spun a connecting rod bearing. I think it was a plastic piece that bypassed the oil pickup tube of the oil pump. VW knew this was a problem and at least should have redesigned that guide. The other guides were in good shape. If any vr6 owner reads this replace this guide at 80-90k. All you have to do is remove the top timing chain cover. No transmission removal. I think the other guides will last at least 150k miles, maybe longer. Chain stretch might hit its limit before the other guides.
Just the upper guide? Do the tensioners go bad as well?
@@rayludwig3893 when I replaced the timing chain and guides only the upper guide, opposing the upper tensioner guide, was bad. It was in pieces, but the engine was still in time. The engine sounded like marbles rattling in a can. I have the afp engine (2001). The lower timing chain and guides looked like they could go another 100k. The upper tensioner guide had little wear. VW should have redesigned the guide. Even a new one just does not feel strong. My plan on my overhauled engine is about 80-90k is to remove the upper intake and valve cover. Lock the cams with the tool and remove the upper timing cover. The guide can be removed by removing a bolt and pulling it out of the perch or bolt in the lower timing cover. The upper tensioner could be replaced and I think the other guides would be good until the next 80-90k. I bought the car new and changed the oil regularly so sludge was never a problem.
@@MrWoowootila I got a 2002 24v vr6 Jetta with 102,000 kms has some marble sound. Not really feeling like removing the transmission. Just ordered the upper guide and tensioner bolt. Hope that fixes it. Doing the crack pipe and thermostat housing while in I’m there as well.
@@rayludwig3893 I would buy the aftermarket aluminum thermostat housing and crack pipe. My original plastic housing starting seeping shortly after buying the car new and replaced it the aftermarket housing. At 100k the plastic housing was brittle and worn at the mating surface. The 24v has some redesigned guides and suppose to last longer, but I have no experience. I know the 24v guide that bolts down with two bolts instead of one. I think you can still replace it without removing the lower timing cover and transmission. The 24v also has a guide between the cam sprockets that the 12v does not. Note on the 12v the rattle you could be hearing is the changeover valve. I am not sure the 24v has it. If it was me I would take off the intake manifold, valve cover, lock the cams with special tool and remove the upper timing chain cover. If that guide is broken you found the rattle otherwise it is the changeover valve in the intake manifold if the BDF engine you have has one. If the chain is not too beat up just replace the upper guides. If the guide is in pieces, pull the oil pan remove the pieces in the oil pan and oil pump pickup screen. Also look down into the lower timing cover for pieces. From my experience and from what I have read in forums the lower guides and chains last a long time. Mine had little to no wear at 100k. A broken upper guide piece could do damage, but mine did not. You will have to seal the timing cover and oil pan. The VW sealant sets like in 15-20 minutes. My experience was too fast, especially with all the bolts. I used Permatex optimum black on the timing cover and oil pan. It cures in about 24 hours and I have never had a leak with the stuff. It gives you more time than the VW sealant. I removed the engine to do all the chains and guides. The vr6 is so tightly packed in the engine compartment you do not have a lot of room to remove the transmission. The mechanical coolant pump needs to have the engine raised or lowered to make space to remove it. I just pulled the engine and did everything. Water pump, front and rear seals, coolant hoses, thermostat, housing and crack pipe. I also replaced the clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder, throw out bearing and starter. The clutch components could of easily made it to 100k, but I rather spend over $200 now than try to work in a tight engine compartment in the near future. Good luck.
@@MrWoowootila thanks dude,
I hope the parts come in soon from ecs tuning and it’s just the upper guide. Will update on what it turns out to be.
Oh man! Don’t destroy! Fix itttt. I would love a vr6 GTI just like this one.
Nooooo!!!! ESCAPE WHILE YOU CAN, YOUNG ONE! 🥶🥶🥶
@@ch0wned ^^^ what he said. I a gti vr6 just like this one. And man is it a pain. Best thing about it is the sound of the engine, and the fact that you can put a mk3 steel oil pan on it instead of the mk4 aluminum one. Other than that it’s a pain
This video is partially why you may not in fact want one.
@@agenericaccount3935 I’m a mechanic.
@@JaredsGarage Most mechanics I know aren't into working on their own stuff after doing it as a paying gig all day all week all year. But you go on telling yourself whatever you need to.
It's funny how they always say it's got a timing chain, needs no service when timing belts can last more than 100k km without issues but with chains it always has some tensioner or guide failure..
AGREE!! Belts rule.Screw those expensive and special tool (more money) chain engines. That's how they ruined the 4.2.
looks like a great car for 500$ - i'd love to have it even with the broken engine
Pause at 12:53 and have a closer look. Gap between the bumper and fender indicate possible collision repair. Aftermarket tow attachment indicative of the car possibly having a history of being tracked. Uneven line between the passenger door and lower frame of the car indicate potentially other collision damage. Worst of all; purple tint. When I see that, I stereotype the prior owner as someone who generally threw the cheapest parts possible at a car to barely keep it running, then drove the car like they stole it, until the day it had to be towed to a salvage yard. Speculating the owner did not spend extra money on more expensive G12 coolant. If so, imagine that nightmare. Imagine the condition of the clutch. Shift linkage bushings under the stick are most likely close to destroyed if not destroyed. If the owner operated the car on a budget, they probably used 85 octane in a car that calls for 91 octane. How does that impact fuel injectors. We haven't seen the suspension and interior. Maybe for good reason. No telling the condition of the electrical system. The car looks like a rapidly depreciating money pit. On the bright side, the VW emblem and mirror caps look nice.
Boy, then do I have a deal for you!
It’s about this bridge…
It's a parts car.
@@RedondoBeach2 just becaused it's washed doesn't mean its kept in good condition. Just the mere fact that the retard who owned it didn't know of timing chain failures and kept cranking it a hundred times in the hopes that it would suddenly come back alive - tells you a lot. That is the reason probably why charles didn't even want to spend the money on parts to get it working again.
Plus all the broken connectors, loose battery.
The bodywork is in good nick, it could just be well looked after until the past owner had it and caused all that neglect and damage in their short period of ownership.
Good candidate for a 2.0T swap.
That failure looks eerily similar. My E46 BMW had the same type of failure. Surprisingly, the engine still ran, but it was NOT HAPPY. The timing chain guide was shredded like it was tossed in a blender, and the debris clogged the oil pump pickup. I'm frankly amazed there wasn't major engine damage.
different with the vanos units on the e46 they can adapt the cam timing enough not to cause to much catastrophic damage to an extent and throw codes for timing etc same as the r56 mini / peugeot engines witll come up with vanos adaptation stop kinda codes etc,
Love the content Charles, I've been around 12v's for 15 years and I always learn something new from you! I hope you get another 12v do a little refresh and get this running again, I am sure we will all learn from you!
You learn something everyday, I never knew they did a 12v VR6 in a Mk4, I guess only in the US, as all MK4 in Europe with a V6 engine were 24v and 4motion,
Charles I'll 100% buy it from you! I've been looking for another vr6 since I wrecked my mk4. I even have a good engine I could drop in it!
Replace the head, maybe do the bottom end bearings with the engine still in the car and see how long it lasts.
Definitely could be interesting.
It's more interesting to just put the engine together as it is and use it, just replace the valves
Thank you for following through on that tear down, this is excellent knowledge for anybody looking for a junkyard motor and what to look for.
Oh man I had a very similar issue with my timing belt on my 84 1.6 diesel. Had a plastic bit fly out of my timing cover and lodged itself in the gear tearing a 3cm hole in the belt. stretching it just enough to cause an engine out. But not enough to bend the valves! That was a very lucky day. One timing belt change later and she still ticks :) good luck figuring out what to do with this beauty!
I'd love to see a 12v VRT build on your channel. To this day, this is my favorite sounding VR6 with the right intake/exhaust combo
I’ve done that!! I did a mk3 VR6t a few years back. Tons of videos!!!
White Wookie
❤ Love it! $100 buck I paid! 2001 VW Golf GTI VR6 with 287000km. Not even close to the damage of your engine. Cost me total of 5400 to certify for the road. It was a great rehab project for me, Service Manual books I had and followed
Great teardown. Long timing chains are not no worrys. A maintained timing belt might have been a smarter engineering choice. But 220 K, somebody has driven this thing to ground. Good analysis that the broken chain guide pieces plugged up the oil pump intake. Throw away car, get another.
Fix it please. The only VR6 I ever owned was a 1994 Passat GLX VR6 with a 5-speed manual transmission. Nice car. Sprinkled a bit of the Neuspeed catalog on it while I owned it. Was looking for a VR6 Corrado before I bought it. I have a soft spot in my heart for these engines. Love the channel!
This reminds me of when the timing belt guide on my car just completely broke off and the belt was going into the plastic cover making marks everywhere. Thankfully it was caught before any major damage
In the words of Phil Swift..... "That's a lot of damage!"
You should provide him with replacement parts 👀
I just bought a MKIV R32 last year that jumped timing because the nylon guides broke. Bent most of the valves, and all of the intermediate gear teeth (chain) were broke, but none of the pistons were damaged.
I lapped new valves in, replaced connecting rod bearings (probably didn't need to, but they looked worn), and it runs like new. Had no damage to the cams or caps either.
I'd scrap this engine and load in a 3.2 from a touareg.
It would be nice if you could find another VR6 that was totalled without engine damage and just snag the engine.
I always wonder how compatible newer models of the same car are. For example if you had an engine from a very new VW could you swap it in and maybe change out the ECU?
Great tear down! Super informative and a short textbook on things to look for.
You can put any engine in any car that it fits in. You’ll need to do a TON of rewiring, all new electronics, and in most cases you’ll need a new transmission to mate up to the new engine though.
"Initially I was going to stop there but I think we need to keep going" - hell yeah!
I had a black 1997 GTI VR6 that I bought new in Dallas and man it was an awesome car, corned like it was on rails and 3rd gear + was amazing. It was fast but not quick if you take my meaning. Traded it in on a 2002 Jetta when we had a couple little girls!
OUCH!
AutoZone "Nucor" lists a VR6 head complete with valves for $600-$750.
An OEM head at a Cokumbis, Ohio dealership website lists a head for $1,142.
VW is even more proud of it's parts than Toyota is with my 1999 Solara 3.0 V6 part prices...😶
failure diagnosis based on the ridiculous amount of VR6s ive cracked open and rebuilt:
chain guides failed first, causing the long term wear against that stud on the front side of the block, causing extra wear on the cam gears.
plastic bits from the guides partially plugged up the oil pick-up, starving the upper portion of the engine of oil, which caused the cam to start chewing up the bearings. cam seizes up. chain flops over the gear chewing the one side off, both from lots of cranking and possibly from winding down from driving while it's in gear (vr6 autos often have less valve smashing because the transmission doesnt keep spinning the crank after the failure)
ive seen MANY older watercooleds that ended up with starvation and locking the cam up in the head.
My heart was optimistic but my brain said "RUNNNNNN"
Hello Charles. I love your channel and most of your videos, especially the ones where you do major repairs or rebuild engines. I have a Mark 4 with a 1.9 TDI ASV engine and I would really like to see some video of these engines. Greetings from Spain.
I don't think we ever got the ASV engine here in the US. We have the ALH instead.
@@michaelblacktree is pretty much the same 🙂
I think Charles has some ALH videos. You can also try Thomas EXOVCDS. And I have some ALH videos too.
The worn gear teeth have a shark fin shape. You will often see the same shape teeth on worn bicycle sprockets and chainrings. The timing chain system is similar to a bicycle chain in that it has a tension side (on top) and a slack side (on bottom) which is keep tight by a rear derailleur (the tensioner).
like the new salvaged cars videos.
I do enjoy watching the wrenching in the middle of all the engine mayhrm.
Keep up the good work!
cheers 🍻
I'm 61, and I have a 20 year old 2003 GTI VR6 24v, with about 124,000 miles on it that has served me very well. Original and only owner, garaged, car driven almost daily (normally, not hard driven) but on mostly short in town trips, some 500 mile highway trips twice a year. Had the dealership change the oil once a year (Castrol Edge) all these years, and an independent VW specialist has been putting Liquid Moly in it for about 2 years now. The car runs and shifts very well, leather interior still looks great, etc. I've never needed to change the chains on it yet. How long can I expect the chains to last on this model VR6? Would the engine give me audible warnings that the chains are going? Thanks.
It can. It can also give you timing faults.
Since youve kept up maintenance it could last a very long time. Guides will wear with age even with good oiling. I know on my car (im the 2nd owner) the chain was done at 200k before he sold it to me and it didn't give him issue. Id start saving your pennies for the repair and do it whenever you get the urge to do so, cuz i've seen them fail with less than 60k due to poor maintenance and seen em go 200k like in my car.
Ride sounds nice. There is no way to know if plastic chain guides die from heat or age. Only way to prevent the total engine destruction in this video is to have the timing chain components inspected and changed before death noises. In this case, you have to fix it before it beaks. You have to pay repairs, but worth it if you like your car. Timing chains are time bombs.
In my experience with a 2015 GTI that lost its timing chain tensioner and nearly locked up the engine, it gave me zero audible warning before chipping the guides and sputtering.
I should clarify that any inspection from a VW tech probably would’ve prevented the tensioner from ever getting that bad to begin with, but since I like turning wrenches, it never made it in for its yearly tech inspection like VW (and all manufacturers) recommends.
yeah my heart says keep it, there’s not many vr6 12v on the road these days. i have a tropic orange vr6 12v gti like this and I absolutely love it. it was interesting to see what I have to look forward to in 60,000 miles or so.. crate motor.
Mk4 is one of the last reliable VW
I still have mine with 1.9 TDI 150 hp
160k miles
A pleasure to drive it.
Today’s thermal cars are so sad in europa now…
Greetings from 🇧🇪
Great post-mortem. That's a very sad Panda :( Shame as the body looks good. Really interesting to hear your comments on the state of those bearing surfaces. Cheers!
Without knowing the condition of the rest of the car, it does look fairly good, I would swap out the engine. Lots of work, but the end result is always rewarding. Thanks, RickGTI….. 🌴
This guy was a serious music lover to just ignore the clanking engine sounds.I'm impressed it didn't trew a rod
5 sec in...bad noises, this is going to be a good one.
it was so bad!! LOL
Omg.... I have a sudden urge to go change my oil.
1.8t swap? Companies like TLCT and one love sell complete engines for like $500. Could even big turbo it or something like that.
I'd throw a tdi in it and be done with it.
Wow! Never would I have thought I would ever see a vr6 cam gear in that condition like that! 😮
RIGHT!!! crazy sad
Your "bye bye bye" made me flash back to N'Sync. I'm not sure how to feel about that.
The exact car and exact issue I’m personally dealing with.
Hey Charles - you already striped it to the short block. Might as well try to find anther motor and flip it. Not sure what the resale values are in your part of the country, but it might be worth it. You basically paid nothing for the car anyways. Would make for some interesting videos to bring it back from the dead. Cheers!
Thanks for the video very informative. I was just considering buying a b6 Passat. Add said "ran great until chain snapped" lol
I bought a GTI VR6 with a broken chain. For the cost of replacing the valves and machining the head it was cheaper to swap a good motor in
Def save the car and make it nice. I love my 02 1.8t Gti. Going on 10 years with it. Best car I’ve owned. They all have issues. Just gotta keep up with it.
“There’s some extreme sadness, but how bad DOES it get?”
Me every morning when I wake up for the day
LOL
With every one in a rush to use batteries for auto transportation this will be the future working on old beat up cars and making them work again👍
I still want this car lol, let me know when it's for sale and good luck with whatever you do with it!
You should do some 1.9/2.0 tdi PD Stuff too! Dissasembly, tuning and servicing! I’m in scandinavia and we have tons of mk4 tdi’s and they have rumor of being so easy to get torque from.. and vr5’s are getting extremely rare and more attractive for enthusiast. atleast over here. Great videos though!
Its hard to say this as its "Exxtreeeeeem Sadness" to me. But let's face it, financially this is will be hard to recoup the cost from.
I'd say part it out, you'll easily be able to get the cost from interior/ ancillaries ect.
My vote would be to buy another MK3! You could look for another VR6 or my vote would be a GTI, and do a build series on either Super Charged (G60 set up would be epic!) or ITB setups.
I know it's been done plenty of times but it would be super cool to see a professionally shot, edited and composed build. Plus from my dives into your videos you haven't done any Supercharged/ITB stuff so far. (But admittedly I'm pretty new to the channel so can't say for certain)
Cheers for all your content Charles. You are ...without a shadow of a doubt... the best resource on RUclips for mechanics that I have found so far. You're incredibly detailed and thorough on your explanations, and have infallible indepth knowledge of alot of VAG platforms.
I cannot thank you enough for your content.
That intake is the original VR6 intake that was supposed to go on the Corrado SLC in 1992, but cost cutting at the last minute removed it for a simple set of tubes. Schrick bought the rights to produce this intake, and it increases low end torque by a bunch! I had a '92 Corrado SLC and the low end was kind of weak. This intake would have allowed the cams to produce 200 hp with decent low end torque.
Dammit! I wanted to buy that Scirocco with the VR6 engine!
Start doing a "customer questions" series where your viewers ask about their vw issues and you attempt to give guidence.
My 2001 TDI has a strange sound when i shut it down. like its bleeding pressure off or something. No clue how to research it on tdiclub or youtubes...
Always enjoy these videos you bring us!
Most likely the vacuum box leaking causing a mooing sound on shutdown. Don't worry about it too much until it fails completely. Symptoms will be no boost when it fails
I did almost 300 videos of exactly that. They never did great, but it was worth it for helping the community. Then RUclips started to punish my whole channel for low performing videos.
Sad that you have to play the RUclips game.
@@HumbleMechanic Cool! To bad that isnt better watch content. I guess in hinsight that is what Scotty Kilmer does, but across all brands. Anyways, love your current content, so i wasnt suggesting a change of content, just an expansion or potential side episodes. You friggin rawk!
@@danielbrydon3869 Vacuum Pump Housing Gasket on the drivers side of the valve cover[i think is what you are suggesting]. I'll keep that in mind and check it tonight; thank you!
One of the most interesting,possibly over engineered engines of all time, in my opinion.Would be great to see a build tho.
Other than the timing chain issue, they're practically bulletproof as long as you take care of them. This means using the proper oil and fuel and regular oil changes. I don't go past 5k on oil change intervals. Hands down the best daily driver I ever had is my 2001 GLX and I'll keep driving it for as long as I can.
2:46 Aww man. Now we'll never get to find out if plastic is the correct place to terminate a ground strap. 😔
Great video, Charles! I'd pull the trigger and pick up a motor for the car. This video makes me wanna tear down my old mk4 12v motor. I ended up just finding a good running motor that only had 60,000 original miles on it 2 years ago. Slapped that bad boy in and was nothing but problems. A few hundred dollars in sensors, new injectors, spark plugs, wires and coil and it's just as reliable as my 7.5 R, not quite fun but you can't make an ea888 sound like a vr
Jesus Christ been a year or since I been on a humble mechanic video just too busy in my shop what a beard you have grown my friend I’m jealous
Thanks dude. Glad you’re too busy for YT!!!
I would love to see some TDI content from you.
Man I always feel like TDI stuff is a no win for me. If I do it by the book, the TDI people come for mE because "There is a better way". If I do it the better way, they come for me "Thats not by the book".
That and what TDI content I have done, does poorly. I really hate that's the case. .
I had a 12v Vr6- I got from customer who spun a rod bearing at 116k. Also had timing chain failures.
I put in a $100 ‘95 obd1 Vr6 block into the Mk4 and it ran like a scalded cat and survived too many owners after me.
Sorry it could not be saved/repaired. Great teardown of the engine! and display of the damage. RUclipsr "IDOCARS" (136k subs) does this type of video as his main attraction.
Thanks! These kind of videos are always fun.
The title of this episode should have been "Sadness" lol
Hahahha
When buying car and the owner says it only needs this or that... Prepare your bank account for the worst. Learned this myself lmao
GREAT advice!!!
Oooo it's a really naughty engine
@8:16
Yah-
-I am glad you kept going. So the head is shot. Perhaps the short-block is usable or saleable.
Yoo. "I could be wrong,but grounding into plastic doesn't seem right to me" 😂😂😂😂😂
Great knowledge and very infectious watch from U.K!!
Dude I miss the hell out of my Vr6… the chassis was dog shit and had every mk4 problem under the sun but my the Vr6 never skipped a beat… sat in my garage under a bunch of my mk7 parts…. Sold it for 3500 running and driving… 2 weeks later ended up buying a tornado red 2.0 5 speed wagon… once a mk4 tech always a mk4 tech bahah. 2.0 so simple and so easy.
Dude your freekin forensic and i love it!
Thank you so much!
Done a couple of head removals on linde fork trucks with this engine, 24v vvt, with burnt out ex valves ( LPG ), and some one, i dont know how, snapped a plug off, so removed head and got broken bit out without any damage, although a bit OTT in a forktruck they do sound great. Also had a mk4 golf with six speed manual with 1.9 PD tdi engine, best car i have ever owned, never a problem, apart from silly things, factory turbo and clutch 200,000 miles, although i did uprate intercooler.
Let's see that engine get rebuilt, I really wonder how an engine rebuild on this car would actually be like and what it would cost...
yeah those are inference motors my cousin did his timing tensioner i told him be careful make sure your timing is right he was 1 tooth off on the intake side and tried to start it i went to help him put in the correct time the car had no compression cause he bent the valves from cranking on it 1 tooth out of time smh
I would be tempted to rebuild it. I have a 98 B5 Quattro I would swap it into or in my MKIV Golf.
Body looks like in good shape.. if you can lay hands on another engine, sure, wrap it up.. I'm sure there are some good parts on the vr6 that could be sold to people that need them and can recoup some money back.
2004 Passat 1.8T and one single broken connector is front tempature sensor connector, whole sensor is missing too 🤔 219k miles, multiple owners too but treated well, has every possible additional added, some from factory and small things retrofitted like interior, door panels with leather, seats leather, even dash and so on 😂 But 1.8t issues like vacuum leak somewhere and crank sensor living it's own life atm 🙄
I’ll take it if still available!!! I would love to talk and set up a sale with whatever needs to be done!!!!
We could make this video a drinking game. Everytime you say sad you take a shot! Keep up the great content!
Watching that chain just skip right over the cam gear hurt my heart 🥲lol
same! LOL I wish I had the camera on my face. HAHAHA
WAITTTT LMAO!! 0:50 That was the gear and the chain was sliding right over it LOL!!!
"Yoinked off", this language teacher admires the effectiveness of your words.
HAHA Thanks!
Charles replacement engine you know it makes sense then sell it to some young fellow to have some fun great vid as always top lad 👍👨🏻🏭🇬🇧
Due to an update with my mk4 r32 that happened today, a part out is coming. :(
$500 is a bargain for what you got!!! It's easily worth more than $2000 in parts. That being said, I believe it is definitely worth at least swapping in a good scrapyard engine. If you want to make make a video on a complete rebuild of an AFP VR6, it's not a bad idea. I know you've done plenty of videos on the AAA and BDF VR6s before.
...and another Engine that looks like it didn't get an Oil Change for quite a while.
Sad that you see that so often...
Sometimes when mechanicing, ok, often when mechanicing, you need a third hand, well Chazza has a beard for that!
You should add the affiliate link to those parts trays. I saw them and would have definitely clicked it. I can’t be the only one
I had to go back as see which ones I used. LOL amzn.to/3QtLvST This is what I used. But I got them WAY cheaper. like $15 for 4. Wait until it goes on sale.
In the EU we did not get the GTI with VR6, it was just called ''V6'', i believe with and without 4motion
Yeah I think NAR is the only one that got VR6 GTI. But things are so different all over. LOL
@@HumbleMechanic its really something, yes :P
Charles, how about putting 2.5T engine from rs3? :D That would be nice series of videos and cool upgrade to gti.
Love these types of videos
Im suprise how good pistons rings are not like in todays car with burning oil. I use to have jetta with this vr6 12v engine.
love to see a build on this car
hey charles,
you're certainly an expert in building/diagnosing bad engines. but were these jobs routine when you were a tech? broken cam gears/chains/guides, etc. or was this sorta thing picked up from all the projects over the years
ive seen a lot of engine tear downs yet ive still never seen oil as silver as the oil that came from my suv... yes it stil works somehow
I would definitely find another engine for this car!!! would make a great cheap commuter or track toy for someone!!!
If you are looking for another VR6, Pull A Part in Atlanta has at least one that i saw over the weekend.
They may have a Eurovan in CLT. :)
Charles, 1.8 20vT.... you know it makes sense
It must be bad. Charles just said "super sadness" AND "extreme sadness" within one minute of each other! #ohshit
Haha the music on the radio here was playing enigma sadness .
This suddenly became an episode of I Do Cars. Except with my other favorite RUclipsr.
Lol I have plenty of other teardown videos They are super fun
Hi charles. I think keep it. Finish the r32 turbo off. Then jump back to this 12v vr6. Nothing better then the vr engines. Working on em is just fun..
The 12v vr6, slam another engine in it. Am sure ull find 1 cheap. Lol.
Wel what ever u choose. Good luck mate
Did you say SERVICE POSITION, the video I crave...for real LOL. Same melted alternator wire ugh
Check out the video on my r32 radiator. That will walk you through it
Man that’s a sad engine :(
I would like to see a vr6 rebuild with a engine swap then sell it. Maybe try and do it as cheap as possible?
I have seen the chain guides crack and the obd1 12 valve vr's old style tensioner cut to the metal backing lol oil filter looked like some one dropped a bag of glitter in it i think the worst vw engine fail I have seen was an old 8 valve they over heated it like racing or something and the plastic cam oil splash shield in the head melted and then went all over the motor. it was in the distributor gear area the pan just every where. yes the head gasket blew as well. for this poor vr find a replacement motor and pop it in cant beat the sound of a vr!