@@graymadsI just knew you'd be one of those RUclipsr's who discuss such important topics, that no one would dare to discuss, but discuss in a pretentious manner of tone for the subject matter at hand. you already drawn separate & truly contrasted means (in its absolute matter) of how 'v_olence' is portrayed within the media space & the gaming medium space when that's not how that works in essence at all. you failed to comprehend & understand (based off on the outlook) that both portrayals are just an inverse of each other because Humans are just as drawn, & thrive for the conception of 'v_olence' through internal & external measures of the Human brain. there's no difference to how it's portrayed just purely based off your reductive standpoint, to how it's a separate & contrasted line that is taken, to which you never elaborated in dissecting the essence of it all. your strawmanned standpoint within the exceptional semantics of how 'v_olence' is portrayed within the likes of a game such as TLOU2; shows me how superficial you are when discussing such topics/subject matters at hand. i guess TLOU2 presumably failed due to it being done, and or 'attempted' (because it apparently can't be done through your superficial lenses) in a 'preachy, cringe inducing way' that's all i need to know how superficial you are.
I think it was just to early, especially dog days. People love that kind of deconstructionist stuff now like Cruelty Squad, but back than it was a huge no go.
It is crazy seeing this game that was absolutely mauled by critics on release get a second wind nowadays thanks to various videos such as these. It's almost like despite being FOUR HOURS, as pointed out by certain folk in 2010, it actually does something worth noting within said 4 hours.
Completly agree, I deeply believe that many many games were, at the time of their release misunderstood, and never got a chance to be re-examined for what they are. Glad that KL2 is being revisited
Just to point out, people complained about the 4 hours length, but in reality the full launch price + DLCs was to blame here. 4 hours for a non-stop thriller game is alright.
A quote from the trailer for KL2 really epitomised the entirety of the game and its message: Kane: “We’re done, Lynch…” …. Lynch: “Screw it!” [gunshots]
If you play both games back to back, it implies Kane is the true irredeemable man. If Lynch cut all ties with Kane. His life would’ve been better despite being a thug. Kane is the toxic friend that needs to bring someone like Lynch down to his level to function normally. Dead men outright imply Lynch might've only killed his wife out of self-defense but only confessed he killed her in cold blood out of guilt. Lynch's whole psycho thing is just his coping persona. Kane abandoned his family until his gang took his family.
I think Kane is toxic as fuck without actually knowing it. He desperately tries to fix everything in his life but doesn't seem to realize that he's just making shit worse and the best thing he could do would be to just stop. Lynch isn't a particularly good guy either but I can sympathize with the fact that he's legit mentally ill and it's really not his fault. He's not a psychopath, he is capable of love and empathy and by the sequel seems to view Kane as a genuine friend. He's just really, really dangerous when not in his right mind. He could probably live a functional life as a normal guy but he stays in the world of crime, to his own detriment and to the detriment of those around them. Basically, I think Kane and Lynch are two guys who try to do what they believe is right, but they're both too fucked up, broken, and dysfunctional to do any actual good. The only good thing they do in the first game is manage to save Kane's daughter, and in the second they do literally nothing good.
@@tylertheguy3160 You know I always wondered what happened to Jenny, like, what her current living state is now after Dog Days. Is she extremely broke? Did she somehow fix her life up?
@@lambda-m1676 I imagine she just went back to doing whatever she was doing before the events of the game, albeit now pretty traumatized from everything she went through. I'd also imagine she and Kane are still estranged but at least probably in a better place than they were before, having at least some semblance of a father and daughter relationship. This is all just my own head canon though, there really is no official word on it.
@@tylertheguy3160 For me it's either: 1. She is extremely broke. She lives like crap and Kane probably knows this hence he goes to the gun deal. 2. She's living alright, but incredibly traumatized from it all. The gun deal money is "compensation" or a "sorry gift" from Kane or something
the trailers for k&l2 are genuinely some of the best ever made, idc how bad the gameplay might or might not be the gosh darn atmosphere alone makes up for it, genuinely glad to see people like yourself giving the game a fair shake
There is an alternative universe where Kane and Lynch are just a couple dudes working at Best Buy. Just a couple nice fellows asking if you'd like to buy a protection plan for your Galaxy tablet.
considering their ages I think they're retirees. there's an alternative universe where Kane is a by-the-books good cop and Lynch is doing well with his first wife
37:20 I think the first game could be discussed more in depth. It has commentary about being opposed to violence, for example how Kane reacted to Lynch killing the hostages or kidnapping Renomoto's daughter, or how even the other inmates were disgusted when they found out Lynch killed his wife. Even though it follows a much more traditional gameplay and story formula than the second game, it still doesn't glorify Kane's or Lynch's actions.
This might be your finest work and I've been a fan of you work since you started posting. It's very deep, robust, thought-provoking and brings a lot to the conversation. You touch on some extremely heavy subject matter, ideas/questions that I think that vast majority of youtubers don't have the guts to discuss. Hope things are going well for you brotha, keep up the fantastic work and know you've got a life-time fan in me.
That means a lot to me man, I am glad you enjoy what I make and I hope to keep making stuff like this. Stay tuned, I got a lot more things like this up my sleeves.
What I like about Kane and Lynch is that they're terrible and almost unredeemable people, do terrible things, everything that happens to them is justifiable because of selfish personality and poorly through actions. They're not some quirky, smartass young protagonist who never has to suffer the consequences for what they do.
funny how the abstraction of 'irredeemable' comes into play or is just thrown out without knowing the essence of what 'Redemption' is & that it's just a mere catalyst, that's not supposed to be taken literal or in its absolute form of truth.
I think Kane and lynch deserves a reboot with this aesthetic in mind. The story was never really that good imo in either games but the 2nd game really nailed it artistically. And they are good characters that just deserve better writing lol.
Personally, I think that the characters were written well enough that they remained open to our personal interpretation. I recall a comment somewhere - might've been on the Pyrocynical video - that said something like we forget that the protagonist of a setting is not necessarily the hero. If there was a John Wick movie that showed him still working for the Russian mafia, he would probably be about as unsympathetic and unlikable as Kane & Lynch. And that's primarily what I feel games like Kane & Lynch and Spec Ops: The Line were really going for. They weren't trying to give us the idea of fundamentally good people in tragic situations, but ultimately just bad people doing bad things, because it's all they know.
I remember playing this game on release when I was 8yo I enjoyed it because it made me feel uncomfortable and nauseous now I look back and think I should of never played this game at such a young age but I did and I love this game still
While an analysis on this game's take on violence is interesting, I was more curious about your thoughts on the broader topic of "the aesthetic of violence." I would like to see you go further in-depth with your own opinions and conclusions about violence as an aesthetic rather than translating another work's ideas. I believe you to be a capable enough writer to handle more grandiose ideas with tact. I don't think using this game as a vehicle to carry those ideas is a bad thing, but you can do better than this as a thinker. I've liked all of your videos so far, including this one, I just believe you can improve by inserting more of yourself into your work. Keep spreading the good words!
You know I'm also planning to make a game like this but considering my history of lacking effort I think I won't be able to make it. I dunno though; concept phase.
I love touchy no no subjects ❤️ Jokes aside, thank you, I only knew the first game, (practically the worst copy of a thousand similar ones) and I hadn't even given a glance to Dog Days. I'll fix it.
Jeez this video has some really great insight and the visual+audio presentation to properly frame it. Only note is please do pronounce it “eh-PIT-oh-me” not “EP-ih-tome”
You get it. You absolutely get it. This is a horror game, like Silent Hill but unlike SH's rot and deterioration, it's more of a horror action where no one can get out of. and TLOU2 is absolutely bad.
@graymads That's what I've always thought. I was like: Well, it's not groundbreaking, but it's impressive in its deliverabity; you guys seen't obviously looking at it properly.
Yeah because the game was rushed af and it shows... There's no variation in the gameplay at all, it's just shoot run shoot run for 4 hours and it's boring
Here's how I see it: these games are flawed as fuck. The first one is a busted and unwieldy squad shooter, and the second is a painfully linear cover shooter. But these games are dripping with style and have genuinely interesting characters. I think the strengths mostly make up for those weaknesses. Imo these games are must plays for gamers into crime fiction, especially Michael Mann movies.
So glad people are starting to talk about this underrated gem recently, dont see much in the way of talk for the 1st game though which is sad, still holding out hope for a 3rd game or some sort of reboot someday, kane and lynch was featured in one of the recent hitman reboots with it being played on a tv along with lynch's outfit for agent 47, so its clear IO hasnt forgot about the series yet
Also, regarding the epy-tome and even the very first words in the essay, try get out of reading the script and just have the key points on cards in front of you instead because it sounds like you're doing a reading at a coffeeshop.
Certainly a refined, kind gentleman. Now, would you like to engage in the pleasurable cinematic masterpiece known as “The Peepee Poopoo Man” by my lakeside property?
Loved this game just from the demo. The aesthetics are so good! I had to buy copies of it for my brother and friends so I had people to co-op it with as they didn't see what I saw in it, yet they all enjoyed the ride. I never understood why it did so poorly in reviews. I guess that time period was tired of 3rd person shooters and didn't see it for what it was attempting to do. Similar thing nearly happened to Spec Ops The Line if I remember correctly, and that game is awesome too.
You get it. You absolutely get it. This is a horror game, like Silent Hill but unlike SH's rot and deterioration, it's more of a horror action where no one can get out of. and TLOU2 sucks.
Im only 23:15 in but im surprised MANHUNT has not been mentioned. Quite literally cut from the same cloth in terms of that raw and grainy found footage violence
Given this more thought than it deserves, but I bet current Yahtzee would "Stanley knife-massage" his past self for being right yet missing the point by a country mile in his original review. Regardless, keep up the quality work 💪🏻
This game is a dark comedy through and through and a video like this can't convince me otherwise. The whole scenario is too ridiculous and over the top to take seriously even with the liveleak presentation it has which morbidly adds to it's comedy with how unhinged it can be. Its to the point that lynch shouts "this is fucking stupid!" When they're in a middle of a gunfight with a bunch of swat dudes when a couple of hours prior you were fighting a army of gangbangers abd whatnot, its almost like the game is being self aware of absurd it became in so little of a time. Great video otherwise
Still waiting for this game to go on sale again on Steam so I can play it with my friend. As cool as it isI felt a lot better buying it for a dollar than at full price. It's a deeply flawed masterpiece but imo not worth the pricetag of 10 dollars at this point.
Kane and Lynch 2 is the result of what would happen if someone turned a Chinese liveleak video into a video game.
real
@@graymadsI just knew you'd be one of those RUclipsr's who discuss such important topics, that no one would dare to discuss, but discuss in a pretentious manner of tone for the subject matter at hand.
you already drawn separate & truly contrasted means (in its absolute matter) of how 'v_olence' is portrayed within the media space & the gaming medium space when that's not how that works in essence at all.
you failed to comprehend & understand (based off on the outlook) that both portrayals are just an inverse of each other because Humans are just as drawn, & thrive for the conception of 'v_olence' through internal & external measures of the Human brain. there's no difference to how it's portrayed just purely based off your reductive standpoint, to how it's a separate & contrasted line that is taken, to which you never elaborated in dissecting the essence of it all.
your strawmanned standpoint within the exceptional semantics of how 'v_olence' is portrayed within the likes of a game such as TLOU2; shows me how superficial you are when discussing such topics/subject matters at hand. i guess TLOU2 presumably failed due to it being done, and or 'attempted' (because it apparently can't be done through your superficial lenses) in a 'preachy, cringe inducing way' that's all i need to know how superficial you are.
Kane and Lynch is either a duology you loved or hated, no in between.
I think it was just to early, especially dog days. People love that kind of deconstructionist stuff now like Cruelty Squad, but back than it was a huge no go.
Loved it
I love Dead Men. Dog Days is aight, but its story is one note.
Theyre my favorite games
I think the CG trailer might actually be one of my favourite CG's of all time. The Storytelling is perfect
It is crazy seeing this game that was absolutely mauled by critics on release get a second wind nowadays thanks to various videos such as these. It's almost like despite being FOUR HOURS, as pointed out by certain folk in 2010, it actually does something worth noting within said 4 hours.
Completly agree, I deeply believe that many many games were, at the time of their release misunderstood, and never got a chance to be re-examined for what they are. Glad that KL2 is being revisited
Just to point out, people complained about the 4 hours length, but in reality the full launch price + DLCs was to blame here. 4 hours for a non-stop thriller game is alright.
A quote from the trailer for KL2 really epitomised the entirety of the game and its message:
Kane: “We’re done, Lynch…”
….
Lynch: “Screw it!”
[gunshots]
If you play both games back to back, it implies Kane is the true irredeemable man. If Lynch cut all ties with Kane. His life would’ve been better despite being a thug. Kane is the toxic friend that needs to bring someone like Lynch down to his level to function normally. Dead men outright imply Lynch might've only killed his wife out of self-defense but only confessed he killed her in cold blood out of guilt. Lynch's whole psycho thing is just his coping persona. Kane abandoned his family until his gang took his family.
I think Kane is toxic as fuck without actually knowing it. He desperately tries to fix everything in his life but doesn't seem to realize that he's just making shit worse and the best thing he could do would be to just stop.
Lynch isn't a particularly good guy either but I can sympathize with the fact that he's legit mentally ill and it's really not his fault. He's not a psychopath, he is capable of love and empathy and by the sequel seems to view Kane as a genuine friend. He's just really, really dangerous when not in his right mind. He could probably live a functional life as a normal guy but he stays in the world of crime, to his own detriment and to the detriment of those around them.
Basically, I think Kane and Lynch are two guys who try to do what they believe is right, but they're both too fucked up, broken, and dysfunctional to do any actual good. The only good thing they do in the first game is manage to save Kane's daughter, and in the second they do literally nothing good.
@@tylertheguy3160 You know I always wondered what happened to Jenny, like, what her current living state is now after Dog Days. Is she extremely broke? Did she somehow fix her life up?
@@lambda-m1676 I imagine she just went back to doing whatever she was doing before the events of the game, albeit now pretty traumatized from everything she went through. I'd also imagine she and Kane are still estranged but at least probably in a better place than they were before, having at least some semblance of a father and daughter relationship. This is all just my own head canon though, there really is no official word on it.
@@tylertheguy3160 For me it's either:
1. She is extremely broke. She lives like crap and Kane probably knows this hence he goes to the gun deal.
2. She's living alright, but incredibly traumatized from it all. The gun deal money is "compensation" or a "sorry gift" from Kane or something
Kane is a narcissistic liar. Dead Men manipulated the audience to root for him.
Only funny thing about this game was that the shotgun in this universe acted like no scope sniper rifle.
That literally what a shotgun loaded with slugs are
Shotguns shoot a lot farther irl, than in videogames mate
Kane and Lynch 2's teasers are still the best trailers made for a game ever.
darling bring out the fine china, graymads is discussing the idea of violence through the context of kane and lynch
Damn right.
the trailers for k&l2 are genuinely some of the best ever made, idc how bad the gameplay might or might not be the gosh darn atmosphere alone makes up for it, genuinely glad to see people like yourself giving the game a fair shake
That Lip Critic song went so hard I had to stop watching the video and listen to the whole ep
There is an alternative universe where Kane and Lynch are just a couple dudes working at Best Buy. Just a couple nice fellows asking if you'd like to buy a protection plan for your Galaxy tablet.
thats a scary thing to think about
considering their ages I think they're retirees. there's an alternative universe where Kane is a by-the-books good cop and Lynch is doing well with his first wife
37:20 I think the first game could be discussed more in depth. It has commentary about being opposed to violence, for example how Kane reacted to Lynch killing the hostages or kidnapping Renomoto's daughter, or how even the other inmates were disgusted when they found out Lynch killed his wife. Even though it follows a much more traditional gameplay and story formula than the second game, it still doesn't glorify Kane's or Lynch's actions.
This might be your finest work and I've been a fan of you work since you started posting. It's very deep, robust, thought-provoking and brings a lot to the conversation. You touch on some extremely heavy subject matter, ideas/questions that I think that vast majority of youtubers don't have the guts to discuss. Hope things are going well for you brotha, keep up the fantastic work and know you've got a life-time fan in me.
That means a lot to me man, I am glad you enjoy what I make and I hope to keep making stuff like this. Stay tuned, I got a lot more things like this up my sleeves.
I love that people are talking about this game and I’ll continue to pray for a third game
What I like about Kane and Lynch is that they're terrible and almost unredeemable people, do terrible things, everything that happens to them is justifiable because of selfish personality and poorly through actions. They're not some quirky, smartass young protagonist who never has to suffer the consequences for what they do.
funny how the abstraction of 'irredeemable' comes into play or is just thrown out without knowing the essence of what 'Redemption' is & that it's just a mere catalyst, that's not supposed to be taken literal or in its absolute form of truth.
of course you had to be superficial.
I think Kane and lynch deserves a reboot with this aesthetic in mind. The story was never really that good imo in either games but the 2nd game really nailed it artistically. And they are good characters that just deserve better writing lol.
Personally, I think that the characters were written well enough that they remained open to our personal interpretation. I recall a comment somewhere - might've been on the Pyrocynical video - that said something like we forget that the protagonist of a setting is not necessarily the hero. If there was a John Wick movie that showed him still working for the Russian mafia, he would probably be about as unsympathetic and unlikable as Kane & Lynch.
And that's primarily what I feel games like Kane & Lynch and Spec Ops: The Line were really going for. They weren't trying to give us the idea of fundamentally good people in tragic situations, but ultimately just bad people doing bad things, because it's all they know.
@@Comrade_Alyoshayour both (99% of the comments & this video) are superficial.
I remember playing this game on release when I was 8yo I enjoyed it because it made me feel uncomfortable and nauseous now I look back and think I should of never played this game at such a young age but I did and I love this game still
My God, does a single youtuber know how to say the word "epitome?"
Ahh K&L2, i could talk about this one for hours! It's so gutteral and greasy.. good shit
Glad to see these games get some love. Always a treat to see video essays about them pop up.
While an analysis on this game's take on violence is interesting, I was more curious about your thoughts on the broader topic of "the aesthetic of violence." I would like to see you go further in-depth with your own opinions and conclusions about violence as an aesthetic rather than translating another work's ideas. I believe you to be a capable enough writer to handle more grandiose ideas with tact. I don't think using this game as a vehicle to carry those ideas is a bad thing, but you can do better than this as a thinker. I've liked all of your videos so far, including this one, I just believe you can improve by inserting more of yourself into your work. Keep spreading the good words!
If you got to experience this game when it came out, you were chosen lol! This game was and will be somethin' of an anomaly in the scene forever!
You know I'm also planning to make a game like this but considering my history of lacking effort I think I won't be able to make it. I dunno though; concept phase.
I love touchy no no subjects ❤️
Jokes aside, thank you, I only knew the first game, (practically the worst copy of a thousand similar ones) and I hadn't even given a glance to Dog Days. I'll fix it.
Jeez this video has some really great insight and the visual+audio presentation to properly frame it. Only note is please do pronounce it “eh-PIT-oh-me” not “EP-ih-tome”
You get it.
You absolutely get it.
This is a horror game, like Silent Hill but unlike SH's rot and deterioration, it's more of a horror action where no one can get out of. and TLOU2 is absolutely bad.
And the critics back in the day absolutely hated this game.
The critics can kiss my ass, this game is kino
@graymads That's what I've always thought. I was like: Well, it's not groundbreaking, but it's impressive in its deliverabity; you guys seen't obviously looking at it properly.
Yeah because the game was rushed af and it shows... There's no variation in the gameplay at all, it's just shoot run shoot run for 4 hours and it's boring
Here's how I see it: these games are flawed as fuck. The first one is a busted and unwieldy squad shooter, and the second is a painfully linear cover shooter. But these games are dripping with style and have genuinely interesting characters. I think the strengths mostly make up for those weaknesses. Imo these games are must plays for gamers into crime fiction, especially Michael Mann movies.
Probably because outside of it's aesthetic, the gameplay and it's repetitive nature alongside the story fucking sucked.
Whats the song at 5:44?
Why is kane's name is always spelled differently everytime on the subtitles
So glad people are starting to talk about this underrated gem recently, dont see much in the way of talk for the 1st game though which is sad, still holding out hope for a 3rd game or some sort of reboot someday, kane and lynch was featured in one of the recent hitman reboots with it being played on a tv along with lynch's outfit for agent 47, so its clear IO hasnt forgot about the series yet
Great video! Just for future reference, epitome is pronounced “ep-it-oh-me”
I love the creepy music at 17:00
Lynch was Trevor before it was cool.
Basically what you get when you give two throwaway goons the protagonist spotlight.
Also, regarding the epy-tome and even the very first words in the essay, try get out of reading the script and just have the key points on cards in front of you instead because it sounds like you're doing a reading at a coffeeshop.
Pyrocynical 2.0
Certainly a refined, kind gentleman. Now, would you like to engage in the pleasurable cinematic masterpiece known as “The Peepee Poopoo Man” by my lakeside property?
peepee poopoo
The game was a 2010 release, where did you get 2011 from?
I could really go for some mantou right about now, Gray. Amazing vid!
Loved this game just from the demo. The aesthetics are so good! I had to buy copies of it for my brother and friends so I had people to co-op it with as they didn't see what I saw in it, yet they all enjoyed the ride. I never understood why it did so poorly in reviews. I guess that time period was tired of 3rd person shooters and didn't see it for what it was attempting to do. Similar thing nearly happened to Spec Ops The Line if I remember correctly, and that game is awesome too.
Great video mads. I still like TLOU 2 though lol. Oh and Dir en grey are awesome!
5:45 lip critic🧠
You get it.
You absolutely get it.
This is a horror game, like Silent Hill but unlike SH's rot and deterioration, it's more of a horror action where no one can get out of. and TLOU2 sucks.
Let this be a warning to you Arma players. All it takes is one bad day lmao
We still miss you Melch, hope you are doing good bud
Im only 23:15 in but im surprised MANHUNT has not been mentioned. Quite literally cut from the same cloth in terms of that raw and grainy found footage violence
Given this more thought than it deserves, but I bet current Yahtzee would "Stanley knife-massage" his past self for being right yet missing the point by a country mile in his original review.
Regardless, keep up the quality work 💪🏻
When is this game getting a remake 😂
This game is a dark comedy through and through and a video like this can't convince me otherwise. The whole scenario is too ridiculous and over the top to take seriously even with the liveleak presentation it has which morbidly adds to it's comedy with how unhinged it can be. Its to the point that lynch shouts "this is fucking stupid!" When they're in a middle of a gunfight with a bunch of swat dudes when a couple of hours prior you were fighting a army of gangbangers abd whatnot, its almost like the game is being self aware of absurd it became in so little of a time. Great video otherwise
16:27A normal protagonist can be those things man
New Favorite RUclipsr unlocked
Still waiting for this game to go on sale again on Steam so I can play it with my friend. As cool as it isI felt a lot better buying it for a dollar than at full price. It's a deeply flawed masterpiece but imo not worth the pricetag of 10 dollars at this point.
how many kane of lynches are in my store
feels wierd how u never mentioned GTA games xD
What's the song from your intro?
Lip Critic - Been Born
No not that one, the one that starts at 0:01
If Kane and Lynch 2 was a better game, it would be far worse.
🎉
this is informative sure, but you sound so tired
I am always tired
That's just Madison's general vibe 🙂😄
For me its more the prolonged over dramatic nature of the editing. i get it tho
Second
1:07 Based and Christ pilled
16:11 you pronounce epitome as "eh pit oh me" just fyi