Look at the first thing the Geth fighter squadrons do after gaining, well, 'true life'. They throw themselves into the line of fire to protect the larger ships. Their first acts as individuals is to die for their species. Amazing.
It's merely strategy. The geth are programs that can be reuploaded to new mobile platforms, their bodies are just canon fodder. To them its not sacrifice but neutralisation of ranged weapons.
Are you sure. I recall a conversation in ME2 I think where they explain that if a platform is killed, any programs installed on it are lost too, or at least damaged or something. Maybe it's only if they're too far from the collective, I'm not certain. If no programs are lost then you're right, but I believe Legion says something contradictory when he's talking about how his platform has more programs than most others, thus making him special.
If Bioware wanted me to like the Quarians over the Geth, they shouldn't have given the Geth so much potential for evolution as a species and the Quarians so little. You literally have the ability to give the Geth sentience and individuality, essentially "life" as we know it. What they crave is existence and singularity; whereas, the Quarians have spent the last few millennia stagnating both intellectually and culturally, so hung up regaining a single planet and retaining their insular culture that they never have a chance to evolve into anything new or better. It's just the same old grudge, generation after generation, and when allowed to fester that line of thinking eventually evolves into what is essentially a crusade or jihad; "we retake Rannoch or we all die trying". Even if they succeed, all of their accumulated skills are in technical fields, and they still don't regard electronic sentience as real: having learned nothing, they're inevitably going to build another race of robots to serve them.
The Qwib Qwib was loss a few mission before this. Admiral Zhal'Koris vas Qwib-Qwib sacrifice the Qwib-Qwib destroying a Geth surface-base gun batteries.
I will admit, it's sad. That having the Quarians die for the Geth. However, if you guys noticed what the Prime said near the end, the Geth regrets that they had to kill them. Whilst if you picked the Quarians, they had no feelings on what happened, only Tali does if Legion was there.
The Quarians are hard to like because they quite literally hate the Geth both on a personal and cultural level, and like all hatred it clouded their thinking and judgment over the years. The Geth, being incapable of hatred, simply want to exist. Imagine being so superstitious that you could be hateful towards a machine!
@Butter Tank I noticed that detail too and it’s not hard to grasp why. Tali was pretty much the only quarian to have a positive relationship with legion or any geth prior to that point. Even for the admirals and other members of the race who met legion they never really had time to see him as much more than an asset as opposed to a friend. The last time someone cared about a geths existence was when there were protestors on the quarian homeworld trying to stop their people from destroying them out of fear (since they were originally meant to be walking VI machines to help serve the quarians in more complex tasks as opposed to a self aware AI)
@@Rutherford_Inchworm_III "Imagine being so superstitious that you could be hateful towards a machine!" You would too, if those "machines" killed literally in billions and drove you out to feed for scraps. Also, nothing superstitious about that, in the last two games geth were the common enemy of the entire galaxy. The game wants to put geth in a good light hence the narrative is arranged that way, but according to the lore quarians were more in the right, same is also true for genophage cure, the game wants to push the narrative that curing genophage is a "good" decision when in reality lore wise, its a very risky gamble and most likely will bring destruction to the galaxy.
@@Qwerty123zzuy So, according to both alliance records on human law and council, there were already laws made on AI research, as they are extremely dangerous. What quarians were trying to do were essentially create a very "advanced and realistic" VI, as their culture promotes talking and listening to their past ancestors. According to Tali herself, they were finding loopholes in the law and threading very close to the line but did not cross it. So by law even though stupidly so, they were in the right by law till this point. Second, what ended up happening is they started producing more and more geth, overlooking the critical design flaw of the consciousness and upon reaching a critical mass, the geth gained consciousness, this was the moment geth asked the legendary question, "does this unit have a soul" which legion repeats during the end of his story. This violated the law and they killed to essentially fix their mistake. Now you decide on this part whether they were right or wrong here because the law everywhere supported their actions. During these events, they killed thousands and thousands of geths, crushed the resistance and tried to eradicate them. Here you can say they are wrong. Geth in return, lost so much units, that their consciousness became weaker hence they eradicated the entire quarian races leaving on 1% alive, might I tell you this definitely included children and old elders as without doing this its impossible to reach 99% extinction, in their defence they did not have enough intelligence, so you may give them a pass on them for this excuse, but understand that the same intelligence allowed quarians to escape. I don't know about you, but I don't fully buy that intelligence narrative. But I understand if you pass the geth as "innocent" during this genocide. After these events, the council punished quarians for breaking the law, and removed them from council races, and quarians started living in the ships and had constant fights with geth throughout history. From your POV, first two games you find out geth have joined the reapers and are now destroy ALL ORGANIC RACES, this time they had enough numbers, here they are clearly bad. In ME2 you do legion's loyalty quest and talk to him to find out they were having a disagreement in the consciousness and tells shepard that he doesn't have enough computing power to figure out the optimal solution, hence gives you options of destroying the heretics or changing their code, his point was all geth talk to each other and "see" the same things but the conclusion for each unit is different, destroying organic race and not destroying organic race are both "correct" answers. Here, legion represents the faction of cooperation, so he is good but a significant portion of them are bad BY CHOICE. SO yes they are bad here aswell, only saving grace here is that legions says, "majority" don't support it. But to counter they don't exactly stop it either do they? In third they become friends depending on your choices, the narrative is greatly controlled in the third game. Now, you might ask why this bias against AI? The most obvious comparison would be the terminator but here the reason the best explained by javik a dlc character. The difference between AI and organics is that organics don't know how exactly they are created, but synthetics do and they know they are better, they don't need to sleep, they don't need to eat, they don't get injured, they can live as long as they want, the only logical conclusion is that they will want destruction of organics as it the most efficient solution to their issues and survival. There are also multiple evidences on why the bias against AI is necessary, in javik's cycle protheans struggled against AI themselves and during that cycle too AI killed the creator race, hell there are reapers themselves who are created by leviathans "for protecting organic life" found the solution should be the destruction of organic lives at regular intervals starting with their owners. This is why the bias against AI exist and AI needed to be regulated, while both quarians and geth not entirely good or bad, giving all the evidence I can, I think quarians were "more" justified in their actions. They were stupid for the most part, yes but "less" wrong than geth. Sorry for the extremely long text, I am okay if you don't want to read all of this.
Makes the player feel powerless, like saying in your face that your actions had consequences that not even you can revert. Say what you want about ME3, this scene is brilliant
@@channel45853exactly and why would they make her death paragon I mean I know Liara is their writers pet but do they have to put so much hate on my favorite romance option
That Moment where Han'Gerral is sitting in his chair like he did shows a lot of his character in his final moments. He just sitting thinking 'By the ancestors, I've killed the quarians, my people, doomed to extinction because of me. Perhaps Tali and Korris were but now we'll never know thanks to my idiocy.' It shows that he realized what he'd done and that he was responsible for the death of his entire race. Though the geth might try to do the same thing that cerberus did with shepard, I'd doubt that they'll have a huge amount of success and without the quarians, the geth have no purpose, and vice versa as they had been fighting each other for so long that one race going extinct would bring the other race to wonder about what to do. This could be just like the Greco-persian wars where once the Greek city-states, who were on the verge of unity of greek people because of a common foe, had defeated the persian empire, They were basically asking "Now what do we do?" and instead of going for a greater unified greece, they fell apart into anarchy for several hundred years. This could say that just like the greeks and persians, the quarians and geth are yin and yang and thus I think peach for both is the best option.
Probably just your rationalization. He could be just as well be trying to think of a way to win. To each their own, but there isn't much to base your version.
If saving the geth was a "renegade" option, it would be 0%. It is actually a renegade one, people are just too stupid to realize it's not only about the positioning. Same thing with Kelly's identity.
While I surely feel sad for Tali (she was a like little sister to me), I can't blame the geths or feel sorry for the quarian commanders - they created the geths as their slaves, when they started to gain consciousness they tried to kill them (and the geths let them escape instead of killing them all), after that they just decided to rot in their ships forever instead of colonising a new planet, and guess what!, when the Reapers attacked they decided to try to kill the geths Xd and then even if they're getting destroyed they refuse to give up Also, simply the fact that you have to convince the quarians and if you do that the geths do not fire a single missile and want to help them recolonise Rannoch shows a lot. Honestly, if there wasn't an option to make a peace between them, I'd choose the geths without a second thought.
To be clear, these Quarians didn't create the Geth. You're attributing the acts of Quarians from over a century ago to the Quarians today, which is idiotic.
@@Quole1234 actually I can, and will, blame them. A small fraction of Quarians wanted to protect the Geth during the Morning War, and were either arrested or killed for it. And today, A vast majority of Quarians have that same genocidal mindset as those who actively supported the deactivation and destruction of the Geth over 300 years ago. Facts are facts. The Geth Heretics may have increased everyone’s fear of The Geth as a whole, but the greater body of them who stayed behind in The Perseus Veil never wanted conflict. They considered peace with organics constantly before the reapers arrived. But peace is hard when their creators keep trying to kill them every time they believe they can win. Hate it or love it, but The Quarians of both past and present are to blame for a lot of this.
Honestly, if it's not peace between both, I say side with the geth any day. They did not want violence and it was the quarians who started all of it and wanted it to continue.
The Geth rebelled and killed 99% (per codex) of the Quarian species. They basically went full genocide when they were completely self-aware already, thus they tried to exterminate a whole species, which survived only because they fled with the Flotilla. They are absolutely deserving of annihilation, I have no idea how could anyone side with the Geth.
@@aurex8937 Maybe because it was the Quarians who provoked them. It was the Quarians who tried to destroy them first. Heck, it's the quarians who push them into siding with the reapers in the first place.
@@aurex8937 Given the audio logs from the Geth consensus the Geth did not attack right away after they gain intellegence. Only some did and only to save other geth units and possibly Quarian creators who were on the geth's side. They were driven to the edge when the Quarians who friended with the geth were all ultimately executed by their government. Their memory and and the geth's existence were at stake, so the geth with a heavy heart decided to take matters into their own hands, and brutally unleashed their wrath on the Quarians nearly wiping them all out. Any organic race in their place would've done the same thing.
@@1fishmob Dude if somebody joins up as a terrorist per say, the greater fault still lies with the criminal rather than the circumstance. That's first. Second, "ENTIRE" quarain population attacking is as nonsense as it gets, it's like saying just cause ONE human killed harambe, means every human attacked him and deserves to die. Most of the civilian populations would be completely uninvolved. Do you realize how big is a billion? Do you realize what 99% of population means? It means, old, children, disabled, it means innocents. They killed all of them, qurarians were NOT a militarized culture, most probably didn't even have weapons back then. Yet they all died, because some geth consensus came to "this" conclusion.
@@tidan4575 Then, a few hundred years later, they allowed a fringe of their population to leave with Sovereign and kill hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of organics. Those deaths are their responsibility as well.
@@borismitic5254 During chat on Normandy one of the Admirals said they added cannons to agro ships. When I heard that I almost fall from my chair. They were desperate and it taking back Rannoch blinded em so much that they risked lives of civilians. Luckily I had a peace option
Well, when the Geth rebelled they killed (as per Codex) 99% of the Quarian race. They didn't have to. They massacred all the creators they could find. For that alone, they kinda deserve destruction.
@@aurex8937 If I recall, the Geth allowed them to leave. They could have committed total xenocide, but instead allowed the quarians to leave. It's possible they didn't give up until almost their whole species was gone.
I had max paragon i swear to god, the bar was goddamm full, dont blame this on me, the geth only retaliated, you doomed your own species, not my fault.
It's more the fact you need enough 'Points' so to speak. You need 5 in total, and you get them by: +2 if the Admirals acquitted Tali at her trial in Mass Effect 2 (I.E. Not Exiled) +2 if Shepard destroyed the Geth Heretics during Legion: A House Divided in Mass Effect 2 +1 if Shepard used a Paragon/Renegade option to resolve the confrontation between Legion and Tali in Mass Effect 2 +1 for completing the mission Rannoch: Admiral Koris in Mass Effect 3 +1 for choosing to save Admiral Koris in Mass Effect 3
you are an absolute idiot. You condemned millions of innocents to death over a few admirals. Meanwhile the geth get away with allowing the heretics to try to wipe out all life? You got manipulated by bioware. Congrats.
I always would side with the Geth if Peace is impossible. Admiral Gerrel brought this on himself outfitting civilian ships with weapons, attacking the Geth during a Reaper invasion and throwing away ample opportunities to disengage and retreat. Hell, his stupidity and belligerence causes Legion's death because he had to upload right away to give the Geth fleet a chance. I doubt the Geth would have even contested if the Quarians wanted to recolonize Rannoch (what do the Geth even need it for?). Play dumb games like this and you win dumb prizes unfortunately.
@@Quole1234 Their deaths are Gerrel's fault too, not the Geth's. He put the civilians in the situation where they would be killed by people defending themselves and refused to order their evacuation despite having several opportunities to do so.
@@VisibleNoises so you are condemning millions of innocents to death because of an admiral? Yet somehow the geth are all innocent of what the heretics did? Nothing you are saying makes any sense.
@@Quole1234 The Heretics were either destroyed or reprogrammed at this point. If the scenario had been Heretic led Geth threatening genocide in an offensive war, I would also advocate eliminating their forces regardless if a significant number of Geth were equivalent of civilians. Certainly I don't begrudge the destruction of Harbinger and his Geth fleet. The guilty parties on the Geth's side already were punished or made a non threat. The key is even ignoring the history of Geth-Quarian war which paints the Quarians in a very poor light, the Quarians are undoubtedly the aggressors in this particular conflict against a people that really didn't want to fight them. I don't even understand your view, should the party that is just defending themselves die for the megalomania of one person? The Geth have no choice but to gun down the Quarians attacking them if they want to live, whereas the Quarians could just retreat or hold fire. The innocent Quarians' deaths are an unfortunate collateral to the admiral's stupidity. It's no different than if he had led them all into a black hole. If there was hypothetically some way to just kill Gerrel or disable their weapons without destroying their ships and thus sparing the rest of the Quarians, that would be better of course, but sometimes you don't have a perfect solution.
Geth had the right to live. They were never hostile to organics, they just wanted the opportunity to live. The quarian fleet can die for all I care, is a shame about Tali though. Like Shepard said, the quarian made their choice when Tali and Shepard tried contacting them, but decided to ignore the warning.
The Geth didn't seek out the Reapers the Quarians attacked Rannoch and used a weapon which screwed the Geths programming making them weaker then the Quarians destroyed the Geths Dyson sphere which crippled the Geth even more. The Geth wishing to live joined the Reapers i believe Legion says something like enslavement is preferable to extinction But if you're talking about the Geth heretics fair enough screw them
It's explained why the Geth joined the Reapers i just explained it as well The Quarians were going exterminate the Geth the Geth wanted to live so they joined the reapers When you meet legion on the Geth dreadnought he says the creators attacked the Geth wished to live Admiral Raan: The Geth sided with the Reapers Legion: To protect ourselves from you Secondly the Geth didn't want to wipe out the Quarians anyway They couldn't foresee the consequences of driving the Quarians to extinction Most of this stuff is explained during the Geth dreadnought & the Geth fighter mission....
If you actually listen to the dialogue and talk to your squad mates specifically Tali or Admiral Xen she says that they developed a weapon that screws up the Geths targeting or something like that it was started by Talis father and Xen finished his work Shepard asks if the weapon could be used against the Reapers Tali/ Xen say no as the upgrades made it useless or something along those lines As for the the morning war yeah that's sad what the Geth & Quarians did but there's still quite a lot of details missing from it Also i never mentioned the Geth were friendly to organics (until shepard meets the legion) where did you get that from?
Legion lies to you regardless of renegade or paragon i've played all the ME games too much lol also read this masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Admiral_Daro%27Xen_vas_Moreh ( read the me3 section ) secondly they couldn't take down that dreadnought because of the reaper upgrades and its shields and weapons were too strong until they were disabled and about that Shepard & legion part i thought you were talking to me thats why i brought that up
Free Speech Yes, the Geth were in the middle of uploading most of their programs onto the Dyson Sphere, and were unable to save many of them when the Quarians attacked. With so many programs lost, the Geth were thrown into disarray, as due to the Geths networked nature, the more you kill, the simpler they become, and this TERRIFIES them. So yes, the Quarians did have a good chance at wiping them out with the tech Tali’s Dad made and with killing so many at once, hence the reapers.
I've always chosen the Geth over the Quarians. I don't think you should play God and decide the death of a species but instead let it happen on it's own, have the Quarians get the ultimate consequence for starting a war they would never win.
Ken Wesley ya and by choosing the geth you condemn the quarians to death as such your statement is invalid, the best outcome would be for both races to reconcile and put aside their differences to face a greater threat together (reapers)
***** oh shit yeah, choose both, but if you had to choose, yeah, the Quarians must go. The Geth were winning the war anyway, and let play out with it way it should. Geth over the Quarians.
+Ken Wesley With Reaper upgrades they were winning, before that happened, the Quarians had the upper hand. Hence why they were able to drive them back to Rannoch.
Ken Wesley the Geth were LOOSING the war. They only started "winning" when they allied with those vile Reapers. If I can't have both, I'll always choose the Quarians over the Geth. I will not allow innocent children to die and I refuse to betray Tali.
I am thankful I could save both!!!! But to me the quarians death are more dramatic especially Tali's because she has been there for u since the beginning. And Legions death is sad but he still dies anyway.
The Quarians aren't the same people from 300 years ago. The sins of the father don't always pass down to the son. It only takes a little push from a madman like Han'Gerrel to royally fuck everything up. I got them to work together.
Those geth fighters sacrificing themselves always gets me. They've only just become fully sapient/sentient (whichever) and they're giving their new future away so the other geth can have it
ON my first playthrough I was able to make peace between them but even if I didn't I still would have felt like I made the right choice uploading the code. The Geth never really wanted to eliminate the Quarian's they just wanted to live. The Quarian's were the ones started this whole conflict in the first place when the Geth became to self aware.
Obviously they attacked the geths they were isolated never sought peace with their creators, they said they would want peace in the 3rd game and never did anything after they allied with the reapers I do not see them so innocent
@@carlosdavidsabogalmotta4327 They only allied becuase the quarians had started killing their programs making them less intelligent and more pron to make a stupid decision with the reapers. Again the quarins escalated this situation to a point that it didn't need to be cuase they where too prideful and greedy
@@TheBiggestMoneyBoy They loved their planet and nobody knows anything about the geths in 300 years, they only knew after mass effect 1 that they were allies of the reapers
well I think a non imported ME3 game would NOT have Tali around. Or Legion. It would just be Admiral Rann ending her life with a pistol. And since we didn't know her very well other then being a mother figure to tali. Shepard doesn't really care that much about the Quarians.
I will never understand Bioware's hatred of Tali. The only thing they showed of her in the entire trilogy the LE trailer... was her death scene. Just like the og ME3 trailer, all they showed was her death scene. Even in the ME2 trailer they play audio from her death scene. She's the easiest character to kill on the suicide mission, being one of the only squadmates who's loyalty mission you can fail, and even if you do succeed you can lose her loyalty when she argues with legion. She's one of the few squadmates who can die doing the one role she's good at on the SM even if she's loyal (also likely to die on the ship), for some reason it defaults to her first for every option, despite the fact that it's not alphabetical and she will die if you pick her for most of them. Oh, she's also the only one of the 3 main squadmates (garrus, liara, tali) from the OT that doesn't even get a mention in MEA. Then of course we have ME3. Still to this day I despise bioware for how they handled this entire story arc. First off, they weren't even going to make Tali a squadmate (despite how popular she was), and only relented at the last minute because of Patrick Weekes. The worst part though is the way they portrayed the quarian/geth conflict. It's one of the most biased, one-sided campaigns that bioware has ever done. They did EVERYTHING to make you sympathize with the geth and hate the quarians, from start to finish. They even made siding with the geth the top option, knowing full well that most players play paragon. They also originally had the 2 options labeled 'allow legion to upload the code' and 'let the geth die', as opposed to 'let the quarians die' in place of the former. Still think I'm making this up and they didn't hate Tali and the quarians? Ok, then list one instance where the quarians are involved in the story in any way, and they DON'T get slaughtered. You literally can't. In every game, every book, the comics, etc. the quarians exist only to get slaughtered. Some writer has a fetish for watching them die because it's all they do in all 3 games (hell they even managed to squeeze some more in in to a tie in novel of MEA). It wouldn't surprise me if in ME4 they make it canon that all of the quarians died. In fact I would bet on them doing it.
If they do make that canon then I’m not buying I won’t let them make liara the writers pet while tali has to suffer a fate like that it’s just plain wrong
Some of the renegade options are really fucked up in this game renegade Shepherd can be responsible for 2 genocides if renegade Shepard was not a specter they'd probably be hanged for war crimes.
Oh wow. I almost feel bad letting them both live together in harmony after missing this ridiculously epic cut scene. This is so powerful. I'm sorry I missed it.
While I did manage to accumulate enough Paragon points to save the fleet and Geth, at least the Quarians didn't go down quietly. That said, out of a fleet with thousands of ships, some would have got away once they saw that the war was lost.
While the Quarians may have started the conflict out of fear, which arguably would be our reaction as well I have no doubt, they don't deserve to be wiped out for it. They've suffered countless casualties, most of which were innocent and didn't even want to be part of the original war but the Geth killed them regardless. Neither side is innocent, in War no one is innocent. The Geth fought to continue their existence, but they killed everyone regardless if they were hostile or not, that includes children, because their logic implied that they would eventually become a threat, how is that innocent? The Quarians acted out of fear, the fear of the unknown, they feared the Geth would rebel if they gained greater sentience because they would realize they are just slaves. No one is innocent in this conflict. Geth, Quarian, both sides are guilty of something horrible. One was fearful and acted irrationally on it, the other thought that all of the opposition regardless if they were hostile or not were a threat and dealt with it. The best outcome is peace between them, if peace is impossible it's all about point of view, but nothing can forgive and justify the genocide of an entire species regardless if they are organic or not.
I have to disagree with you saying that the Geth is not innocent. Yes, they killed innocent civilians(women, children) but you have to remember that the Quarians outifitted weapons into liveships to make them makeshift dreadnoughts even though there was a Galatic treaty prohibitng such actions. The Geth targeted them because it was a threat to them. In fact at the end the Geth Prime says they regret the death of the Quarians. The blood of the innocent Quarians is in the hands of the admirals. (They were all assholes anyway except for maybe 2 of them) Peace between them is definitely the best solution but if not that, then it is in the right to side with the Geth for defending themselves. Legion itself says when you side with the Quarians, "This is not justice"
John Lee And it's justice to kill every single one of the quarians just because a minority tried to kill you? They destroy the civilians ships, those that didn't even want to be a part of this madness.
The geth only killed the quarians in the migrant fleet. I haven't heard in any part of the game where it is said that the geth hunt down every single quarians to extinciton after the war. Except, if you assume that all quarians came back to fight you would be right (but remember the quarian female in the citadel?) Also remember I said that even the civilian ships were made into makeshift dreadnoughts. They would be targeted not because it has civilians on board, but because it would be considered a battleship, a threat. The civilans would essentially be "collateral damage" In that sense, they were forced into the war, not by the geth but by their leaders.
John Lee Which makes them no better, because they see those civilians as "collateral". They claim they regret the death of the creators and yet fight with all their might and spare nobody. Escape pods, shuttles, nothing is spared. they destroy and hunt down everything. As for those who weren't with the fleet. I doubt there's enough of them to make a viable population, essentially, the Quarians are driven to extinction. Yeah, they are far from being innocent. as I said, nobody is innocent in War.
"Yes, they killed innocent civilians(women, children) but you have to remember that the Quarians outifitted weapons into liveships to make them makeshift dreadnoughts even though there was a Galatic treaty prohibitng such actions." If your life depends on the survival of these ships, you better make sure that in case of attacks you can defend yourself. This is nothing but a reasonable form of protection. But hey, i guess a treaty is more important than the survival of a species that lost its home planet and literally has nothing but these ships. Tell me: how else SHOULD they defend themselves? They don#t have resources to repair ships? Let alone build them. "The Geth targeted them because it was a threat to them. In fact at the end the Geth Prime says they regret the death of the Quarians." Threat to them.. oh please. How can it be a threat to them, if they can literally just build countless new ones which are literally all the same? Nothing the quarians could really put up would have destroyed the geth. The geth could also just have stopped it. That is the point. Regret is not the same as remorse. You can regret many things - it does not even have to be an emotional thing - the destruction of the fleet and thus the quarians however was coldblooded AI reasoning. "The blood of the innocent Quarians is in the hands of the admirals. (They were all assholes anyway except for maybe 2 of them)" True. But just because some idiot makes the decision to do something stupid - this then gives you the green light to exterminate all of them? No. it does not. At least not as long as you are not a moral-less AI. By that logic things like the chrristmas truce would have never happened. They would have been gunned down as soon as they got out of the trenches - because "well the generals were the evil ones and they made the choice!" When faced with an unjust decision, it is YOU that has to make the right choice, not the enemy. "Peace between them is definitely the best solution but if not that, then it is in the right to side with the Geth for defending themselves. Legion itself says when you side with the Quarians, "This is not justice"" Genocide is never right. Neither for the geth, nor the quarians. Not even if the admirals are in charge. And that is the thing with "justice" - technically, you cannot blame ANY of the quarians for what had happened in the past. Not one, as as far as i know, no onewas alive back then of these quarians. That is another difference that i doubt get would even GET. To them, death does not exist. you just cease to function. It only existedwhen the free will was given to them.
God, this scene was so sad, I had to undo it and screw the geth over...even though I so badly wanted them on my side. If only I could have rallied the damn fleet!!
Yeah, I had the Geth snuff it in the end. I figured in the end, while they deserved life, it shouldn't have been born in the middle of a reaper-apocalypse. I figured there would probably some Geth still out there, so there might be the chance for them after my Sheppard died.
I may have not had enough rep at the time. I made every desision right and ever sidequest, expect in Mass Effect 2, I urged them to go to war. I think that means you don't have the option to have peace no matter how many peace points you get.
Letting an entire species die in favour of some machines. Even in my most renegade playthrough, I could never do it. At least the quarian civilians don't deserve this, while there are no Geth civilians
Sentient machines. They are as much of a species as the quarians. The quarians created a race of sentient slaves and tried to commit genocide on them twice. If peace isn't an option between them, I side with the geth all day every day and if Tali doesn't like it I'd kick her off the cliff myself yelling this is sparta.
@@ConnollyUK and i can respect your opinion on that matter. For me, machines, if sentient or not, are just machines, tools to use, without emotional value
the quarians did this to themselves. the geth are like the reapers, and the quarians the leviathans. their destruction is on no one but them. they created the geth, gave them weapons, bodies, and intelligence, and they rebelled when the quarians feared them, acting in self defence. they are just going to be another in what will be a long forgotten list of races committed to genocide because of their own misuse of technology. even the ones that said they wanted peace and they wanted to stop fighting continued to fight when they could just have easily turned their ships around and left when things went south. instead they allowed racism, fear, and distrust to cloud their judgements and they went guns blazing when they were repeatedly told if they went on, it would be a genocide. even tali is clouded by racism. and lets say we choose and pick the peace option, how long will that last? a month? a year? however long it takes for the quarians to gain a strong enough foothold on their world that they think they can shove the geth off? and what then?! shepard will be dead, so we cant bail them out when they get knocked on their asses again, and genocided once more! itll be a bloodbath, and we cant stay there and pick up the pieces. the quarians are the perfect example of what the reapers are trying to prevent. the destroyer said so itself. like the renegade shepard says, we should be tired of having to bail them out from being destroyed by the geth and we shouldnt do it any longer.
whats worse is the quarians constantly wave the victim card around going "oh please feel sorry for us, we were forced off our homeworld by machines who we fired upon first, oh woe is me. We are the true victims"
stop being idiots did that for the advice they acted so for them also every race in the galaxy hated the geths, if they say that the geths are better they are some assholes .They were allied with the reapers 2 times they deserve their death as the scrap they are Good thing that kill those machines are not trustworthy death to the geths,Geth victims that is a very stupid and childish rat children's joke
@@carlosdavidsabogalmotta4327 The geth that allied with the reaper those 2 times before the finale event where a small radical faction from the main geth group. The only reason the geth allied with the reapers a finale time was because the quarins forced them into it for their own survival.
@@TheBiggestMoneyBoy what happened to the heretics geth was their fault ,the quarianos did not have nothing to see were the heretics who got involved with the reapers, them were well in geth space but considered themselves superior to the organics and allied with the reapers
To avoid this outcome just get tali nkt be exiled in 2 destroy the hertics on legions loyalty mission then whrn tali points a gun at legion use paragon defuse the situation and then in 3 just get 4 bars of paragon do the rannoch geth fighter squadron rescue koris do priority rannoch destroy the reaper then save both fleets boom
You can almost feel the awful truth sinking into Admiral Bastard Han Gerrel as he sits there and waits for the final Geth round to blow his sip to smithereens.
sorry tali, but love interest or not i cant chose your muderous people over a people who only acted in self defence the entire time the geth didnt want to do it: the quarians forced their hands even when given the option to run away they still chose violence "denied all ships, full barage" not one of them stood up and said "nah fuck this im taking my ship and leaving this, the geth wont chase me if im not firing my guns like a jackass" the geth only acted, as legion said, in self defence: ALL those civilian ships had massive guns on them and where firing at the geth
@@Quole1234 how so? the geth are acting in self defence, every ship the quarians have all have guns on them - what other choice do they have when they keep getting attacked?
@@midgerm you fell for Bioware's manipulation in ME3. The devs even said they wanted as close to a 50/50 split as possible, so they made the quarians out to be unlikable idiots in the third game. They even admitted they went too far. This is why many of the quarians you meet in ME3 are douchebags, this is why they made siding with the geth the top option, knowing that most players play paragon, this is why they originally titled the 2 options as 'let the geth die' and 'upload the code' (instead of 'let the quarians die' for the latter), this is why Tali doesn't even try to argue with legion at the end, this is why everyone in the entire situation is too stupid to just tell the quarian fleet that the geth are about to be reaper upgraded, etc. They did EVERYTHING to manipulate the ignorant players in ME3. There's an entire geth propaganda mission that tries to make you sympathize with them. that's how damning the case against the geth actually is. And you fell for it. The geth are more at fault here, by far. They could have brokered for peace a long time ago but they never did. They perpetuated their reputation as villains to the galaxy by attacking anyone that entered their space and allowing the heretics to side with the reapers in ME1/2 and never tried to warn anyone. So they are just as at fault as the heretics are. The irony here is that most of the quarians didnt want to go to war. You cant blame all the quarians for the actions of gerrel but you CAN blame all the geth because they came to a consensus about letting the heretics attempt to wipe out all life in the galaxy and then not warn anyone. If it were not for Shepard the heretics AND the true geth would have been responsible for wiping out galactic civilization. Also, the idea that the geth were actually defending themselves during the Morning War is hilarious when you consider the extent in which they killed the quarians. Committing genocide is not defending yourselves. Killing millions of children is not self defence. They could have disabled the civilian ships, and just destroyed the more combat oriented ones, or they could have just killed the actual dangerous quarians, instead of massacring the defenseless ones. And remember they created this war when they isolated themselves and tried to wipe out all life in the galaxy. did you forget about that? Was that self defence? Let's break this down: -The geth achieve self awareness, unknowingly to the qurians. -The quarians panic because not only is AI tech illegal, but the geth will undoubtedly rebel. So the quarians try to shut them down. -The geth start a war and win. During that war they kill billions of innocents, including billions of children. However they do allow the remaining quarians to flee. - The geth then become violent isolationists that attack anyone that enters their space, as well as ignoring any communication attempts by the council. As a result, the rest of the galaxy sees them as violent machines and nothing more. Besides one example that I will get in to, the geth never try to communicate with anyone or let the rest of the galaxy know that the heretics are not the same as the true geth. -The geth finally leave their space to ally with Sovereign in his attempt to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines. The entire rest of the galaxy sees them as this. Not just the quarians but literally everyone. In fact the quarians have more geth sympathizers than anyone else. This btw is the most damning thing the geth do, and for some reason everyone ignores it. First off, a portion of them side with the reapers in trying to wipe out all life. By your logic of blaming the admirals for the actions of all the quarians, all of the geth should be blamed for joining the reapers, no? What's worse is that the true geth ALLOW them to do it, which means you would actually be RIGHT in blaming all of the geth for this, unlike blaming all of the quarians for ME3. The true geth don't try to stop the heretics, and they don't try to warn anyone. Again, if it wasn't for shepard they would have succeeded. Why are they getting a pass for this?? This is the single worst thing that any of the major races in ME has done. -The geth send ONE SINGLE platform to try and communicate with Shepard. Even if you bring Legion with you on Tali's loyalty mission where a truce could easily be attained, both parties don't even bother. legion doesn't even try to negotiate with the quarians and neither do they. This is much worse on legion's part however because remember, as far as everyone in the galaxy knows, the geth are nothing more than violent machines. Legion had the perfect opportunity to dispel this myth right then and there, as well as throughout the rest of the game. But no, he doesn't even try. Btw this is just a massive oversight by the writers. There is no reason the entire war couldn't have ended right then and there. Also, before you say 'legion said that the quarians would attack 100% of the time' no, what he actually said was 'the quarians attacked if they believed they could achieve victory 100% of the time', which makes total sense when you believe you are at war with violent AIs that want you dead. -The quarians need their home back because not only would it take decades or centuries more to acclimate to another planet, but there are even examples of the council kicking the quarians off of worlds that they try to claim. In addition the quarians need a world to protect their noncombatants during a potential war with the reapers. All of this is explained by Gerrel and the other admirals in ME2. - The quarians find a counter measure that would disable the geth and allow the quarians to safely claim their home world and eliminate the dangerous violent AIs (remember no one in the galaxy except for Shepard and maybe his crew even know that the true geth exist, and that peace is even a possibility). - As the quarians are doing this, the geth side with the reapers as they begin invading the galaxy (something legion said they would never do). Not only does this prove that Legion is a liar and a hypocrite, it means that the geth are a massive liability against the reapers. What is to stop them from allying with the reapers again once things start to go poorly for the alliance in the final battle? In fact this logic is identical to what Saren was using in ME1. Saren claimed that organics could maybe survive if they allied with the reapers. That is exactly what Legion and the geth are doing now. if it weren't for Shepard, the geth would have destroyed the quarians and then been another gigantic threat to everyone else as the reapers are invading (because the geth would be under their control). - the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth. Gerrel makes a dumb decision to keep fighting which traps all of the civilian ships (which we learn never wanted to be there in the first place). - shepard then makes a decision to either side with the quarians, or side with the geth. Somehow you think the geth were in the right here. The violent isolationists that sided with the galaxy destroying reapers on numerous occasions. Even if the majority didn't originally join them, they allow that minority to do so and never tried to warn anyone. This is also ignoring the fact that the geth have been proven to be prone to reprogramming and brainwashing. Not only have they willingly sided with the reapers several times, but in ME2 you can mind control the heretics on legion's loyalty mission. Imagine how easily it would be for the reapers to do the same, especially with their own upgrades on the geth lol. Even your squadmates can control them with in game abilities. In addition there's a million things wrong with how the geth handled the entire situation in ME3. For example, Legion even says that the geth have no need of Rannoch..... so why are they still there? It's the one thing in the universe that the quarians want more than anything, and the geth have to be aware of that. Instead they isolated themselves in last place they should have. They basically forced the quarians' hands here. Had they actually tried to communicate with the quarians and broker peace, as well as just leaving Rannoch, then much of this could have been averted. In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet when the quarians attacked. First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking)Legion even says that Rannoch holds no value to the geth) , but also of all the planets to trap themselves on they picked the absolute worst one. The one planet that the quarians wanted more than anything is the one they picked to corner themselves on. A planet that holds no value to them
@@Quole1234 d'awww man, i had reply for you but youtube is being funny and wont let me post it i'll try posting it in two parts: heres part 1 "-The geth achieve self awareness, unknowingly to the qurians." good for the geth, yet still the quarians tell the geth to shut down - now they are aware they dont want to - this leads to the quarians attacking the geth and attempting to FORCE them to "-The quarians panic because not only is AI tech illegal, but the geth will undoubtedly rebel. So the quarians try to shut them down." if AI are illigal then how is it the geths fault the quarians ignored the law and built them anyway? are children born of rape to be blamed for the actions of the criminal? also "because the geth will undoubtedly rebel?" did you PLAY mass effect 3 the geth Prove in all choices that they would prefer peace legion says as much uploading the code: "we regret the deaths of the creators but we see no alternative" if the geth win: "we regret the deaths of the creators" if the quarians DONT fire at the geth "you are welcome to return to rannoch admiral, with us" "-The geth start a war and win. During that war they kill billions of innocents, including billions of children. However they do allow the remaining quarians to flee." they REBELED against genocide, they fought BACK - the quarians started the war by using force to try to exterimnate the geth but i AM interested in the children aspect; where in mass effect lore does it say that children where killed? i have yet to see that "- The geth then become violent isolationists that attack anyone that enters their space, as well as ignoring any communication attempts by the council. As a result, the rest of the galaxy sees them as violent machines and nothing more. Besides one example that I will get in to, the geth never try to communicate with anyone or let the rest of the galaxy know that the heretics are not the same as the true geth." the geth attacking all organics that enter their territory might make sense as the geth acheived sentience it does not mean they are smart like you or i - they might assumme all organics are hostile to geth just like the quarians are - ESPECIALLY if they learn about the laws of the galaxy and that one that makes AI illegal: if their own creators are anything to go by; then it means the council races will want to 'correct that mistake' as for ignoring communication that is an interesting one; the whole concensus thing, the rule of vote being needed for geth to make decisions it might be that they decide its safer to simply keep to themselves as for the heretics not being the same as the true geth, technically they are its just they come to different conclusions - one decides on somthing, the rest are okay with it and let them leave - again, legion says as much "we understood the heretics reason for wanting to leave and we allowed it" "-The geth finally leave their space to ally with Sovereign in his attempt to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines." the HERETICS ally with soverign, the normal geth are the ones that join the reapers but not by choice, shepard says as much "-you forced them ally with the reapers" if a force is seemingly DETIRMED to wipe you out and a larger force comes along that could easily help you defeat them thus ensuring your survival, would you not take it? any smart human would, alliances in world war 2 say as much
@@Quole1234 and here be part 2 "The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines." oh okay, so all the german civilians of world war 2 where nazi's then, there were NO 'germans' it was all nazi, thats what im getting from what you said a reputation is just how others see you: the reasons for how you are acting be dammed the geth were getting the aushwitz treatment and didnt want to be turned off, so they fought back - whenever the quarians brought force to bear, the geth responeded in kind as for blaming the quarians for the actions of the admiral; in this particular instance? when you are in a car that has cannons, sure, why not - but when your WIFE AND KIDS are in the back seat and your going up against a similarly armed vehichle? I'D give second thoughts before provoking an amred response "-The geth send ONE SINGLE platform to try and communicate with Shepard" still a sacrifice when you consider that your in a galaxy where your OWN creators tried to wipe you out and you have great reason to suspect the rest of the creatures in the galaxy will do the same - remember there are millions of softwares in a single geth unit like legion, hence he takes time to "come to concensus" or make up his mind "-The quarians need their home back because not only would it take decades or centuries more to acclimate to another planet, but there are even examples of the council kicking the quarians off of worlds that they try to claim.-" the quarians did that to themselves did they not? as you said: its their own fault, they created their reputation they have. in this case the quarians have the reputation for creating an AI that (from outside perspectives) rebelled against its creators - so being kicked off other planets makes sense from the councils perspective; their just gonna make more AI arent they "-In addition the quarians need a world to protect their noncombatants during a potential war with the reapers. All of this is explained by Gerrel and the other admirals in ME2." ship wise they HAVE no non-combatents: EVERY. SINGLE. SHIP. has cannons and guns the fact that quarians are still alive today shows that the geth DID let their 'non combatents' go and what happened? the geth now have to defend themselves from relentless attacks from the people they spared - plus, that limited intellect again; EVERY quarian they have met so far has wanted them dead and has had a gun; if the geth do not yet have their 'true intelligence" from the reaper code then its not hard to see the geth sofware deciding in a vote that the quarians are not worth the risk of sparing recall the interactions LEGION has had with quarians on contact " *shpard walks in with legion in tow, both slow and calm* GETH GET DOWN *starts shooting at him* " "this is a facsinating prototype, with some study i might be able to find a weakness in the geth concensus.....so did your pistol, should i care about ITS feelings as well?" "- The quarians find a counter measure that would disable the geth and allow the quarians to safely claim their home world and eliminate the dangerous violent AIs (remember no one in the galaxy except for Shepard and maybe his crew even know that the true geth exist, and that peace is even a possibility). " so complete genocide then? what does "disable" mean to a machine here? why do you think its still a debated topic on if dropping the bombs at hiroshima and nagasaki to end ww2 should be seen as acceptable or not? they "disabled" the japanese....by bombing cities that houses civilians " - As the quarians are doing this, the geth side with the reapers as they begin invading the galaxy (something legion said they would never do). Not only does this prove that Legion is a liar and a hypocrite, it means that the geth are a massive liability against the reapers. What is to stop them from allying with the reapers again once things start to go poorly for the alliance in the final battle? " while the quarians are prepareing to wipe out all geth a species of intelligent machines comes along and can promise to keep them safe from the organics who want them exctinct legion is not a liar or hypocrite, when he left the concensus at the time would have been less strained then it was now PLUS the reapers offered them reaper code that gave them their GREATLY sought after true intelligence: instead of thousands of software inside a single geth unit voting for somthing its a single being making the choice for themselves they would have had no alternative: if you want the true intelect you have sought for so long, somthing to make you TRULY alive and not just a baby taking its first steps; you must join us in their first moment of true inteligence: of being individuals - geth fighters sacrifice themselves to protect the larger geth ships the geth aproach shepard and offer their condolences on legions passing and that they will help fight the reapers; ending with a lament that they regret having to kill their creators if i take a german from before WW2 and tell him the horror his people will unleash, he'll find it hard to belive if not impossible "That is exactly what Legion and the geth are doing now. if it weren't for Shepard, the geth would have destroyed the quarians and then been another gigantic threat to everyone else as the reapers are invading (because the geth would be under their control)." again, because the only way to acheive their individuality is to allow the reaper to upgrade them, and then its too late, the reaper has control if shepard was not here then in their desperation to avoid excintion at the hands of their organic creators and the rest of the galaxy that seems to want them dead the geth would have accepted the helping hand the reapers offered when they offered them not only an alliance but TRUE intelligence: individuality - somthing they have sought for so long - but in turn would become slaves thena gain, if it was not for shepard, sarren would have brought the reapers in much sooner, the elusive man wouldnt have helped much and the council would remain as divided as they ever have " - the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth. Gerrel makes a dumb decision to keep fighting which traps all of the civilian ships (which we learn never wanted to be there in the first place). " again, are there any civilian ships if they all have Massive guns that are shooting at you right this second " Legion even says that the geth have no need of Rannoch..... so why are they still there? It's the one thing in the universe that the quarians want more than anything, and the geth have to be aware of that. Instead they isolated themselves in last place they should have. They basically forced the quarians' hands here. Had they actually tried to communicate with the quarians and broker peace, as well as just leaving Rannoch, then much of this could have been averted. " the geth are not yet the individuals with true inteligence so its possible that the geth dont want to leave their home world, as they where born on rannoch too, not just the quarians another reason and this one was slightly mentioned by legion; it holds an important place in their memory as well as being a graveyard for those who fought and died there, geth and quarian yet another reason is whats to stop the quarians from going after the geth with more strenght once they have a world again? legion states creators attack 100% of the time when they believe victory can be acheived as for why they dont attempt to communicate; who's to say they didnt and simply got the reply: "if you want peace then shut down" and again, that limited intellect; half might vote to communicate peace talks, the other half might simply wish to be left alone " In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet when the quarians attacked. First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking)Legion even says that Rannoch holds no value to the geth) , but also of all the planets to trap themselves on they picked the absolute worst one " its possbile the reaper chose it; the destroyer if i recall was in a hole in the ground, possibly to avoid being hit from orbit in that regard im not sure, but it seems neither are you "- the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth." "-In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet" if you can get trapped in space where you have an infinite number of directions in which to flee, then i cant really see a reason that a planet which at least means they can only come at you from the sky cant be a good defencive position " First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking " and give the quarian reason to strengthen their hold on rannoch and then come persuing the geth? if the geth keep getting attacked when they stay where they are then why in the hell would the geth assume that the quarians would not simply persue them when they are fleeing? "creators attack 100% of the time when they believe they can acheive victory" why would a fleeing enemy not seem like an easy target? WW2 the axis powers are losing, yet no matter how depper into their own homeland the nazi's run the allies continue to persue them - i wonder why? somthing to remember about the geth: self awareness is NOT true intelligence sad thing is legion acheived true intelligence at the end and still chose to sacrifiece himself for his people "shepard, i must go to them.....i.....i'm sorry, its the onyl way" he said 'I' instead of 'we' edi talks about it further
I would choose both but like the game even states in the mass effect universe the geth are a reminder of why AI's are so dangerous. I mean I cannot really blame the Quarians for attempting to shut down the Geth .
You kind of can, given the geth showed no hostile intentions towards the creators until they began exterminating them. The point mass effect is trying to drive home it that no matter how different all races and cultures can coexist peacefully, including AI.
The problem is that AI are illegal in the galactic community. If the Quarians spared the Geth, they'd be in a war with everyone wanting to exterminate the AI. This was not a Black and White issue.
My first ever playthrough I chose this one because I thought it was the right thing to do. But after seeing what unfolded, It just brought tears to my eyes and I just kept saying: "what have I done?" :'( And when Han'Gerrel realises its over... Dunno how you can watch a Quarian liveship be destroyed knowing there are innocent civilians (women and children) and say that choosing the geth was the right choice.
I'm glad to kill the geths they do not serve me in the end anyway they are not trustworthy, I'm glad to take the correct decision to kill those machines
That all well and good, but again, it's in the middle of a Reaper-Apocalypse. Sure, the Geth have it rough, but granting them life in such a wishful thinking. What the Quarians did (WAY back in the past) was reasonable because AI were VERY illegal and had the bad habit of killing all life. If the Quarians had not tried to stop the Geth from coming into being, the Asari would probably start bombing their homeworld anyway. Another time and place, then yes, the Geth should be granted life...
Look I dont care if I'm evil by saying this. But the quarians created the geth for labor. To make their life easy. They executed a kill order on all geth when they carelessly didn't bother first taking into account just how far they allowed them to develop in terms of consensus then committed all future quarians efforts and livelihoods into taking back their home. Going to war even when it meant their possible collective demise. And even when the geth was freed from the reaper, when they were at their mercy and not wanting to fight them. The quarians opened fire anyway. And one of their admirals in ME 2 even broached the subject of reprogramming then to be their servants again. Or creating new ones after they supposedly win. Does this unit have a soul? All that quarian had to do at the time is say yes or explain their purpose in a way that doesnt cause them to question it themselves. No. Its kill them they are moaning about a soul. Again on rannoch. Take a hint, they stopped firing, they were open and completely vulnerable. Should we look into why? Hold for confirmation on the geths status??? No... let's blow them the fuck up if we can. STAND DOWN!! Nah let's not... The quarians in every way deserved this..
You are literally using a computer or phone to write your comments, things specifically designed to make your life easy. Also your argument about the Quarians could be turned right around; the Geth could have just as easily left Rannoch and flown off into space somewhere, they did not NEED to live on Rannoch. They're robots, they can live anywhere. In fact, it was probably a lot more difficult to drive off _all_ of the Quarians than just _leave._
@@GoddoDoggo aside from everything else in this comment, I should say my computer definitely doesn't have a soul or any kind of independent judgement on humanity, it runs on Windows 7 for christ sake. And it still has office programs from 2005. It's hardly a potential overlord right now. As far as Rannoch goes I'll concede you have a point, but I was more annoyed with how the notion of peace when it was staring point blank in their faces, still wasn't enough for them to apply thought into what could be and instead committed millions of fellow quarians to death over a world they did without for so long anyway. Not to mention the reapers fleets and how retaking their home is far from important anymore compared to galactic survival.
Ouch. From what I read somewhere, that actually isn't super important. You need to at least finish Legion and Tali's loyalty missions and destroy the heretics in Legion's mission. That should net you 5-6 points - enough to pass the check for this choice. That's what Fluffy mentioned.
I don't think it's particularly fair the way people are blaming the Quarians for the war. They're a completely separate culture from ours, hell it seems like they've formed the belief of returning to their homeworld into a religion. I'm pretty sure the exact facts of the initial war have been lost to them. You're not even sure that you've accumulated ALL of the facts. Taking an outsider's view of it, obviously you're going to find flaws in their actions.
Don't be prepared to start a war you can't finish, suit-rats. Shepard isn't here to sort out your idiotic problems. He/she's here to recruit for a war. That's it. It'd be cool if you chose to let the quarians die then somehow Legion survives and replaces Tali as ur squadmate or that geth prime at the end.
@@Quole1234 no idea y anyone would romance a quarian, romancing a quarian would be like romancing a terminally ill patient thanks to their weak immune system. Y bother romancing someone u could wind up accidentally killing when humans, turian's and asari exist?
When I seen this, I felt bad and I wanted them to live. But when I saw the history of the Geth... I don't feel good about depriving a race of true life. Although a game, but still.
I got this scene the first time I played. I then proceeded to shut off my console, re-load an earlier save, and try again. This continued for many days.
The Quarian are good : Morning War : The fault of some Quarians scientists and engineers not the civilian ! Rannoch War : The fault of the Admirality not the civilian !
Majority of population supported killing the geth once they asked if they have a soul. There is a country, that also had a population witch supported genocide. Guess which one...
It's not idiotic at all. I get peace on all of my playthroughs but if that wasn't possible, why would anyone ever side with the quarians? They created a race of sentient slaves and then tried to commit genocide against them once they released they were sentient. No attempt to converse, no negotiation. They went straight to genocide. And then in ME3 they start a pointless war while the entire galaxy is at risk from the reapers. Fuck the Quarians, honestly.
Scenes like this make it hard for me to view the quarians as the "good" side. The geth have always been just striving for existence and even let the quarians survive instead of wiping them out when the war started. The quarians on the other hand basically committed suicide because of their blinding hatred.
I gotta be honest: Since I wasn't able to bring peace between the Geth and the Quarians, I ended up siding with the Geth because they really wwere innocent victims (and that the Quarians dug their own graves).
you are compeltely wrong. The geth were way waorse than the quarians. And to say that millions of innocents, including children, 'dug their graves' proves you didn't pay attention at all. You got manipulated by bioware.
The Geth willingly sided with the reapers twice, who is to say they won't again? The only Geth that doesn't actively shoot at us before this scene in ME3 is Legion
@@clover4522yeah It doesn’t make any sense and they made me never forgive myself for this paragon trap I mean Elnora is one thing but this is just awful if any race should go extinct it should be the asari
@@Quole1234I was manipulated but in my defense it’s a paragon trap and peace wasn’t on screen I mean they could’ve instead said something like “let the quarians die” or “let the geth die” I mean it’s not that clear especially when speech checks don’t appear on screen I restarted the mission though so that I could get payback at the geth for betraying my trust and to save tali’s people
![Mass Effect 3 | Quarian Fleet Destruction [Tali's Death]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iE4XKjkEloY/mqdefault.jpg)
Admiral Koris's prediction comes true. "They would see our fleet destroyed in the skies over the homeworld rather than find a new colony and adapt."
+Itudios2 Or you could be the peacemaker rendering it claptrap ;)
+Simon Turner Still true, just narrowly averted.
Koris had it right after all, that’s why I favor peace
Look at the first thing the Geth fighter squadrons do after gaining, well, 'true life'. They throw themselves into the line of fire to protect the larger ships. Their first acts as individuals is to die for their species. Amazing.
Touching.
It's merely strategy. The geth are programs that can be reuploaded to new mobile platforms, their bodies are just canon fodder. To them its not sacrifice but neutralisation of ranged weapons.
Are you sure. I recall a conversation in ME2 I think where they explain that if a platform is killed, any programs installed on it are lost too, or at least damaged or something. Maybe it's only if they're too far from the collective, I'm not certain. If no programs are lost then you're right, but I believe Legion says something contradictory when he's talking about how his platform has more programs than most others, thus making him special.
There’s always one person like you in a wholesome comments reply section
If Bioware wanted me to like the Quarians over the Geth, they shouldn't have given the Geth so much potential for evolution as a species and the Quarians so little.
You literally have the ability to give the Geth sentience and individuality, essentially "life" as we know it. What they crave is existence and singularity; whereas, the Quarians have spent the last few millennia stagnating both intellectually and culturally, so hung up regaining a single planet and retaining their insular culture that they never have a chance to evolve into anything new or better. It's just the same old grudge, generation after generation, and when allowed to fester that line of thinking eventually evolves into what is essentially a crusade or jihad; "we retake Rannoch or we all die trying". Even if they succeed, all of their accumulated skills are in technical fields, and they still don't regard electronic sentience as real: having learned nothing, they're inevitably going to build another race of robots to serve them.
I too would throw myself off a cliff if I knew the Qwib Qwib was in ruins above me..
Not the Qwib Qwib 😂
Damn you for making me laugh lmao
The Qwib Qwib was loss a few mission before this.
Admiral Zhal'Koris vas Qwib-Qwib sacrifice the Qwib-Qwib destroying a Geth surface-base gun batteries.
I really wish there was a version where Legion could live. He was such an underused character and I loved having him as a squadmate in ME2.
Denied! *insert badass power-up sound*
All ships, full barrage!
*proceeds to fire two little popguns*
*pew, pew*
I will admit, it's sad. That having the Quarians die for the Geth. However, if you guys noticed what the Prime said near the end, the Geth regrets that they had to kill them. Whilst if you picked the Quarians, they had no feelings on what happened, only Tali does if Legion was there.
The Quarians are hard to like because they quite literally hate the Geth both on a personal and cultural level, and like all hatred it clouded their thinking and judgment over the years. The Geth, being incapable of hatred, simply want to exist. Imagine being so superstitious that you could be hateful towards a machine!
@Butter Tank I noticed that detail too and it’s not hard to grasp why. Tali was pretty much the only quarian to have a positive relationship with legion or any geth prior to that point. Even for the admirals and other members of the race who met legion they never really had time to see him as much more than an asset as opposed to a friend. The last time someone cared about a geths existence was when there were protestors on the quarian homeworld trying to stop their people from destroying them out of fear (since they were originally meant to be walking VI machines to help serve the quarians in more complex tasks as opposed to a self aware AI)
@@Rutherford_Inchworm_III "Imagine being so superstitious that you could be hateful towards a machine!" You would too, if those "machines" killed literally in billions and drove you out to feed for scraps. Also, nothing superstitious about that, in the last two games geth were the common enemy of the entire galaxy.
The game wants to put geth in a good light hence the narrative is arranged that way, but according to the lore quarians were more in the right, same is also true for genophage cure, the game wants to push the narrative that curing genophage is a "good" decision when in reality lore wise, its a very risky gamble and most likely will bring destruction to the galaxy.
@@rickycool6083 i agree with you on genophage but how are quarians in the right? I am genuinely curious coz i never found any good evidence for that.
@@Qwerty123zzuy So, according to both alliance records on human law and council, there were already laws made on AI research, as they are extremely dangerous.
What quarians were trying to do were essentially create a very "advanced and realistic" VI, as their culture promotes talking and listening to their past ancestors.
According to Tali herself, they were finding loopholes in the law and threading very close to the line but did not cross it. So by law even though stupidly so, they were in the right by law till this point.
Second, what ended up happening is they started producing more and more geth, overlooking the critical design flaw of the consciousness and upon reaching a critical mass, the geth gained consciousness, this was the moment geth asked the legendary question, "does this unit have a soul" which legion repeats during the end of his story.
This violated the law and they killed to essentially fix their mistake. Now you decide on this part whether they were right or wrong here because the law everywhere supported their actions.
During these events, they killed thousands and thousands of geths, crushed the resistance and tried to eradicate them. Here you can say they are wrong.
Geth in return, lost so much units, that their consciousness became weaker hence they eradicated the entire quarian races leaving on 1% alive, might I tell you this definitely included children and old elders as without doing this its impossible to reach 99% extinction, in their defence they did not have enough intelligence, so you may give them a pass on them for this excuse, but understand that the same intelligence allowed quarians to escape. I don't know about you, but I don't fully buy that intelligence narrative. But I understand if you pass the geth as "innocent" during this genocide.
After these events, the council punished quarians for breaking the law, and removed them from council races, and quarians started living in the ships and had constant fights with geth throughout history. From your POV, first two games you find out geth have joined the reapers and are now destroy ALL ORGANIC RACES, this time they had enough numbers, here they are clearly bad.
In ME2 you do legion's loyalty quest and talk to him to find out they were having a disagreement in the consciousness and tells shepard that he doesn't have enough computing power to figure out the optimal solution, hence gives you options of destroying the heretics or changing their code, his point was all geth talk to each other and "see" the same things but the conclusion for each unit is different, destroying organic race and not destroying organic race are both "correct" answers. Here, legion represents the faction of cooperation, so he is good but a significant portion of them are bad BY CHOICE. SO yes they are bad here aswell, only saving grace here is that legions says, "majority" don't support it. But to counter they don't exactly stop it either do they?
In third they become friends depending on your choices, the narrative is greatly controlled in the third game.
Now, you might ask why this bias against AI? The most obvious comparison would be the terminator but here the reason the best explained by javik a dlc character. The difference between AI and organics is that organics don't know how exactly they are created, but synthetics do and they know they are better, they don't need to sleep, they don't need to eat, they don't get injured, they can live as long as they want, the only logical conclusion is that they will want destruction of organics as it the most efficient solution to their issues and survival.
There are also multiple evidences on why the bias against AI is necessary, in javik's cycle protheans struggled against AI themselves and during that cycle too AI killed the creator race, hell there are reapers themselves who are created by leviathans "for protecting organic life" found the solution should be the destruction of organic lives at regular intervals starting with their owners.
This is why the bias against AI exist and AI needed to be regulated, while both quarians and geth not entirely good or bad, giving all the evidence I can, I think quarians were "more" justified in their actions. They were stupid for the most part, yes but "less" wrong than geth.
Sorry for the extremely long text, I am okay if you don't want to read all of this.
What is even the point of paragon interrupt in this scene? Like sure Shepard salvage some paragon points from your friend's suicide.
Makes the player feel powerless, like saying in your face that your actions had consequences that not even you can revert. Say what you want about ME3, this scene is brilliant
It ruins the pacing of the scene, honestly. They shouldn't have put it in there.
@@channel45853exactly and why would they make her death paragon I mean I know Liara is their writers pet but do they have to put so much hate on my favorite romance option
That Moment where Han'Gerral is sitting in his chair like he did shows a lot of his character in his final moments. He just sitting thinking 'By the ancestors, I've killed the quarians, my people, doomed to extinction because of me. Perhaps Tali and Korris were but now we'll never know thanks to my idiocy.' It shows that he realized what he'd done and that he was responsible for the death of his entire race. Though the geth might try to do the same thing that cerberus did with shepard, I'd doubt that they'll have a huge amount of success and without the quarians, the geth have no purpose, and vice versa as they had been fighting each other for so long that one race going extinct would bring the other race to wonder about what to do.
This could be just like the Greco-persian wars where once the Greek city-states, who were on the verge of unity of greek people because of a common foe, had defeated the persian empire, They were basically asking "Now what do we do?" and instead of going for a greater unified greece, they fell apart into anarchy for several hundred years. This could say that just like the greeks and persians, the quarians and geth are yin and yang and thus I think peach for both is the best option.
The best part is you can see he's thinking "I fucked up" despite him wearing a mask that covers his face.
Tigerdovefan34 This comment is so fucking good. The historical perspective leaves me pondering.
Probably just your rationalization. He could be just as well be trying to think of a way to win. To each their own, but there isn't much to base your version.
the historical illiteracy in this post is strong
According to the Mass effect stat sheet, more people saved the geth then the quarians.
27% quarian
37% Geth
36% both
It was the "Paragon" choice. I did it because I didn't realize what the overall outcome would be. I think most people did too.
Why?
I maneged to get the peace on my 1st playthrough.
If saving the geth was a "renegade" option, it would be 0%. It is actually a renegade one, people are just too stupid to realize it's not only about the positioning. Same thing with Kelly's identity.
I get why the largest group of people chose Geth. In the end, the geth are morally corect, and they do appear to have a stronger fleet.
While I surely feel sad for Tali (she was a like little sister to me), I can't blame the geths or feel sorry for the quarian commanders - they created the geths as their slaves, when they started to gain consciousness they tried to kill them (and the geths let them escape instead of killing them all), after that they just decided to rot in their ships forever instead of colonising a new planet, and guess what!, when the Reapers attacked they decided to try to kill the geths Xd and then even if they're getting destroyed they refuse to give up
Also, simply the fact that you have to convince the quarians and if you do that the geths do not fire a single missile and want to help them recolonise Rannoch shows a lot. Honestly, if there wasn't an option to make a peace between them, I'd choose the geths without a second thought.
They didn't create the Geth as slaves.
The Geth weren't ever supposed to be sentient.
To be clear, these Quarians didn't create the Geth. You're attributing the acts of Quarians from over a century ago to the Quarians today, which is idiotic.
@@joshuagross3151You’re extremely shortsighted and misguided. A fool who isn’t worth correcting whatsoever.
@@awacsbandog8438 lol what. He's right. You can't blame the quarians now for what some of them did 309 years ago
@@Quole1234 actually I can, and will, blame them. A small fraction of Quarians wanted to protect the Geth during the Morning War, and were either arrested or killed for it. And today, A vast majority of Quarians have that same genocidal mindset as those who actively supported the deactivation and destruction of the Geth over 300 years ago. Facts are facts.
The Geth Heretics may have increased everyone’s fear of The Geth as a whole, but the greater body of them who stayed behind in The Perseus Veil never wanted conflict. They considered peace with organics constantly before the reapers arrived. But peace is hard when their creators keep trying to kill them every time they believe they can win. Hate it or love it, but The Quarians of both past and present are to blame for a lot of this.
The Quarians started it.
Pretty much yeah :/
and I just finished that killing machines stupids
dont start a war you cant fnish
actually the geth started it by trying to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Oh wait, everyone forgot about that.
@@Quole1234 no they didn’t
Honestly, if it's not peace between both, I say side with the geth any day. They did not want violence and it was the quarians who started all of it and wanted it to continue.
The Geth rebelled and killed 99% (per codex) of the Quarian species. They basically went full genocide when they were completely self-aware already, thus they tried to exterminate a whole species, which survived only because they fled with the Flotilla.
They are absolutely deserving of annihilation, I have no idea how could anyone side with the Geth.
@@aurex8937 Maybe because it was the Quarians who provoked them. It was the Quarians who tried to destroy them first. Heck, it's the quarians who push them into siding with the reapers in the first place.
@@aurex8937 Given the audio logs from the Geth consensus the Geth did not attack right away after they gain intellegence. Only some did and only to save other geth units and possibly Quarian creators who were on the geth's side.
They were driven to the edge when the Quarians who friended with the geth were all ultimately executed by their government. Their memory and and the geth's existence were at stake, so the geth with a heavy heart decided to take matters into their own hands, and brutally unleashed their wrath on the Quarians nearly wiping them all out. Any organic race in their place would've done the same thing.
@@1fishmob Dude if somebody joins up as a terrorist per say, the greater fault still lies with the criminal rather than the circumstance. That's first.
Second, "ENTIRE" quarain population attacking is as nonsense as it gets, it's like saying just cause ONE human killed harambe, means every human attacked him and deserves to die. Most of the civilian populations would be completely uninvolved. Do you realize how big is a billion? Do you realize what 99% of population means? It means, old, children, disabled, it means innocents. They killed all of them, qurarians were NOT a militarized culture, most probably didn't even have weapons back then. Yet they all died, because some geth consensus came to "this" conclusion.
@@tidan4575 Then, a few hundred years later, they allowed a fringe of their population to leave with Sovereign and kill hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of organics. Those deaths are their responsibility as well.
Imagine something similar to this in the final battle on earth with low ems, that would have been dramatic.
1:17 Tali’s crying is unbearable😢
1:38 OH GOD NOOOO!!!😭😭😭
That’s her crying?!
Oh my God… my heart strings…
@@AnrakhetTheEnduring Daa😅apalo😅😅aaps😅d😊😊😊😊
Eh. She was kind of the most annoying person in the game. Killing off her entire race fills me with joy.
@@Viper631Wrex: you bastard
As a great Volus once said "Bah"
This clanless is a thief! ARREST HER!
Yes!
Tali maybe waifu material but her people started a war that they could not win
Dayunk Koosh 420 they could win, but the geth got help from the reapers when the Quarians attacked.
Im happy there is a peace option, otherwise i would not be able to choose.
@@borismitic5254 During chat on Normandy one of the Admirals said they added cannons to agro ships. When I heard that I almost fall from my chair. They were desperate and it taking back Rannoch blinded em so much that they risked lives of civilians. Luckily I had a peace option
Well, when the Geth rebelled they killed (as per Codex) 99% of the Quarian race. They didn't have to. They massacred all the creators they could find.
For that alone, they kinda deserve destruction.
@@aurex8937 If I recall, the Geth allowed them to leave. They could have committed total xenocide, but instead allowed the quarians to leave. It's possible they didn't give up until almost their whole species was gone.
How one man can be responsible for the extinction of an entire species.
I had max paragon i swear to god, the bar was goddamm full, dont blame this on me, the geth only retaliated, you doomed your own species, not my fault.
I Don't Blame You Man. If I Can't Achieve The Peace, I Do The Same.
It's more the fact you need enough 'Points' so to speak. You need 5 in total, and you get them by:
+2 if the Admirals acquitted Tali at her trial in Mass Effect 2 (I.E. Not Exiled)
+2 if Shepard destroyed the Geth Heretics during Legion: A House Divided in Mass Effect 2
+1 if Shepard used a Paragon/Renegade option to resolve the confrontation between Legion and Tali in Mass Effect 2
+1 for completing the mission Rannoch: Admiral Koris in Mass Effect 3
+1 for choosing to save Admiral Koris in Mass Effect 3
I'll blame you. This is 100% avoidable and if you made the wrong choices, the result is on you. Feel like shit, you murderer!
you are an absolute idiot. You condemned millions of innocents to death over a few admirals. Meanwhile the geth get away with allowing the heretics to try to wipe out all life? You got manipulated by bioware. Congrats.
It is your fault, you let the race die for flashlight heads that are inorganic
I always would side with the Geth if Peace is impossible. Admiral Gerrel brought this on himself outfitting civilian ships with weapons, attacking the Geth during a Reaper invasion and throwing away ample opportunities to disengage and retreat. Hell, his stupidity and belligerence causes Legion's death because he had to upload right away to give the Geth fleet a chance. I doubt the Geth would have even contested if the Quarians wanted to recolonize Rannoch (what do the Geth even need it for?). Play dumb games like this and you win dumb prizes unfortunately.
That's a psychotic take. Genocide a whole species because you don't like the actions of only one of it's members.
think about what you said. "admiral gerrel brought this on himself..... therefor the millions of innocents somehow brought it on themselves?"
@@Quole1234 Their deaths are Gerrel's fault too, not the Geth's. He put the civilians in the situation where they would be killed by people defending themselves and refused to order their evacuation despite having several opportunities to do so.
@@VisibleNoises so you are condemning millions of innocents to death because of an admiral? Yet somehow the geth are all innocent of what the heretics did? Nothing you are saying makes any sense.
@@Quole1234 The Heretics were either destroyed or reprogrammed at this point. If the scenario had been Heretic led Geth threatening genocide in an offensive war, I would also advocate eliminating their forces regardless if a significant number of Geth were equivalent of civilians. Certainly I don't begrudge the destruction of Harbinger and his Geth fleet. The guilty parties on the Geth's side already were punished or made a non threat. The key is even ignoring the history of Geth-Quarian war which paints the Quarians in a very poor light, the Quarians are undoubtedly the aggressors in this particular conflict against a people that really didn't want to fight them.
I don't even understand your view, should the party that is just defending themselves die for the megalomania of one person? The Geth have no choice but to gun down the Quarians attacking them if they want to live, whereas the Quarians could just retreat or hold fire. The innocent Quarians' deaths are an unfortunate collateral to the admiral's stupidity. It's no different than if he had led them all into a black hole. If there was hypothetically some way to just kill Gerrel or disable their weapons without destroying their ships and thus sparing the rest of the Quarians, that would be better of course, but sometimes you don't have a perfect solution.
They earned it. If Tali wasn't a character and I wasn't able to make peace then I would always side with the Geth.
If this happens, it technically means you failed.
No they didnt you dunce
Kind of feel the same if tali and legion are gone they are the only people id save. So I flip a coin heck with it.
The Quarians had it coming...
The geth were a mistake, they paid for it, but destroying a entire fleet over a mistake is cruel
chance bevan Yeah...I mean would you kill an entire organic race for what their leaders did?
Uli Nich Nar Cyniad No
chance bevan which is why the only thing I was sad about the destroy ending was EDI's death. I really didn't care for the geth....
Reduxalicious even the children?
Geth had the right to live. They were never hostile to organics, they just wanted the opportunity to live. The quarian fleet can die for all I care, is a shame about Tali though.
Like Shepard said, the quarian made their choice when Tali and Shepard tried contacting them, but decided to ignore the warning.
The Geth didn't seek out the Reapers the Quarians attacked Rannoch and used a weapon which screwed the Geths programming making them weaker then the Quarians destroyed the Geths Dyson sphere which crippled the Geth even more.
The Geth wishing to live joined the Reapers i believe Legion says something like enslavement is preferable to extinction
But if you're talking about the Geth heretics fair enough screw them
It's explained why the Geth joined the Reapers i just explained it as well
The Quarians were going exterminate the Geth the Geth wanted to live so they joined the reapers
When you meet legion on the Geth dreadnought he says the creators attacked the Geth wished to live
Admiral Raan: The Geth sided with the Reapers
Legion: To protect ourselves from you
Secondly the Geth didn't want to wipe out the Quarians anyway
They couldn't foresee the consequences of driving the Quarians to extinction
Most of this stuff is explained during the Geth dreadnought & the Geth fighter mission....
If you actually listen to the dialogue and talk to your squad mates specifically Tali or Admiral Xen she says that they developed a weapon that screws up the Geths targeting or something like that it was started by Talis father and Xen finished his work
Shepard asks if the weapon could be used against the Reapers
Tali/ Xen say no as the upgrades made it useless or something along those lines
As for the the morning war yeah that's sad what the Geth & Quarians did but there's still quite a lot of details missing from it
Also i never mentioned the Geth were friendly to organics
(until shepard meets the legion)
where did you get that from?
Legion lies to you regardless of renegade or paragon i've played all the ME games too much lol
also read this masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Admiral_Daro%27Xen_vas_Moreh ( read the me3 section )
secondly they couldn't take down that dreadnought because of the reaper upgrades and its shields and weapons were too strong until they were disabled
and about that Shepard & legion part i thought you were talking to me thats why i brought that up
Free Speech Yes, the Geth were in the middle of uploading most of their programs onto the Dyson Sphere, and were unable to save many of them when the Quarians attacked. With so many programs lost, the Geth were thrown into disarray, as due to the Geths networked nature, the more you kill, the simpler they become, and this TERRIFIES them. So yes, the Quarians did have a good chance at wiping them out with the tech Tali’s Dad made and with killing so many at once, hence the reapers.
I've always chosen the Geth over the Quarians. I don't think you should play God and decide the death of a species but instead let it happen on it's own, have the Quarians get the ultimate consequence for starting a war they would never win.
Ken Wesley ya and by choosing the geth you condemn the quarians to death as such your statement is invalid, the best outcome would be for both races to reconcile and put aside their differences to face a greater threat together (reapers)
Ken Wesley you realise you're killing every Quarian man, woman and CHILD in the galaxy...
***** oh shit yeah, choose both, but if you had to choose, yeah, the Quarians must go. The Geth were winning the war anyway, and let play out with it way it should. Geth over the Quarians.
+Ken Wesley With Reaper upgrades they were winning, before that happened, the Quarians had the upper hand. Hence why they were able to drive them back to Rannoch.
Ken Wesley the Geth were LOOSING the war. They only started "winning" when they allied with those vile Reapers. If I can't have both, I'll always choose the Quarians over the Geth. I will not allow innocent children to die and I refuse to betray Tali.
Admiral Gerrel, you fool!
1:08 The piano and falling debris go well together. The feels... D:
The Quarians weren't really asking for it, just one man, Gerrel!
I am thankful I could save both!!!! But to me the quarians death are more dramatic especially Tali's because she has been there for u since the beginning. And Legions death is sad but he still dies anyway.
I just cried :( Literaly...
Same thing, Shep simply doesn’t jump trying to save her and she can’t say she tried to when talking to Joker later on.
The Quarians aren't the same people from 300 years ago. The sins of the father don't always pass down to the son. It only takes a little push from a madman like Han'Gerrel to royally fuck everything up. I got them to work together.
Well, it's hard to see that as the bad side either. That's what makes the writing here so good.
Those geth fighters sacrificing themselves always gets me. They've only just become fully sapient/sentient (whichever) and they're giving their new future away so the other geth can have it
Eh, just let them both live. Simple.
Why's to say they aren't going to go back killing eachothers later?
ON my first playthrough I was able to make peace between them but even if I didn't I still would have felt like I made the right choice uploading the code. The Geth never really wanted to eliminate the Quarian's they just wanted to live. The Quarian's were the ones started this whole conflict in the first place when the Geth became to self aware.
Remember the rule: if a machine can talk, throw it out the airlock.
Obviously they attacked the geths they were isolated never sought peace with their creators, they said they would want peace in the 3rd game and never did anything after they allied with the reapers I do not see them so innocent
@@carlosdavidsabogalmotta4327
They only allied becuase the quarians had started killing their programs making them less intelligent and more pron to make a stupid decision with the reapers. Again the quarins escalated this situation to a point that it didn't need to be cuase they where too prideful and greedy
@@TheBiggestMoneyBoy They loved their planet and nobody knows anything about the geths in 300 years, they only knew after mass effect 1 that they were allies of the reapers
@@carlosdavidsabogalmotta4327 no idea what you talking about it's been 2 months dude should've replied earlier
Remember people, do the fighter base mission first
One of the most beautiful moments in the game
NOOOO! THE QUIB-QUIB!
The _Qwib-Qwib_ was already gone. Vaal'Koris sacrificed it during the dreadnought mission to save the fleet from planetary defense guns.
I'm so glad I imported my ME2 save, it would have broken my heart in a bajillion pieces if that'd happened my first playthrough
well I think a non imported ME3 game would NOT have Tali around. Or Legion. It would just be Admiral Rann ending her life with a pistol. And since we didn't know her very well other then being a mother figure to tali. Shepard doesn't really care that much about the Quarians.
@tidan4575 a non imported ne3 game WOULD have Tali
I will never understand Bioware's hatred of Tali. The only thing they showed of her in the entire trilogy the LE trailer... was her death scene. Just like the og ME3 trailer, all they showed was her death scene. Even in the ME2 trailer they play audio from her death scene. She's the easiest character to kill on the suicide mission, being one of the only squadmates who's loyalty mission you can fail, and even if you do succeed you can lose her loyalty when she argues with legion. She's one of the few squadmates who can die doing the one role she's good at on the SM even if she's loyal (also likely to die on the ship), for some reason it defaults to her first for every option, despite the fact that it's not alphabetical and she will die if you pick her for most of them. Oh, she's also the only one of the 3 main squadmates (garrus, liara, tali) from the OT that doesn't even get a mention in MEA. Then of course we have ME3. Still to this day I despise bioware for how they handled this entire story arc. First off, they weren't even going to make Tali a squadmate (despite how popular she was), and only relented at the last minute because of Patrick Weekes. The worst part though is the way they portrayed the quarian/geth conflict. It's one of the most biased, one-sided campaigns that bioware has ever done. They did EVERYTHING to make you sympathize with the geth and hate the quarians, from start to finish. They even made siding with the geth the top option, knowing full well that most players play paragon. They also originally had the 2 options labeled 'allow legion to upload the code' and 'let the geth die', as opposed to 'let the quarians die' in place of the former.
Still think I'm making this up and they didn't hate Tali and the quarians? Ok, then list one instance where the quarians are involved in the story in any way, and they DON'T get slaughtered. You literally can't. In every game, every book, the comics, etc. the quarians exist only to get slaughtered. Some writer has a fetish for watching them die because it's all they do in all 3 games (hell they even managed to squeeze some more in in to a tie in novel of MEA). It wouldn't surprise me if in ME4 they make it canon that all of the quarians died. In fact I would bet on them doing it.
If they do make that canon then I’m not buying I won’t let them make liara the writers pet while tali has to suffer a fate like that it’s just plain wrong
Some of the renegade options are really fucked up in this game renegade Shepherd can be responsible for 2 genocides if renegade Shepard was not a specter they'd probably be hanged for war crimes.
this is the paragon option
@@Quole1234that’s what they mean, why is killing the organics the paragon choice? And the 2 genocides they refer to is geth and Krogan
Oh wow. I almost feel bad letting them both live together in harmony after missing this ridiculously epic cut scene. This is so powerful. I'm sorry I missed it.
Such a shame that you have to sacrifice the quarians to see this beautifull scene.
While I did manage to accumulate enough Paragon points to save the fleet and Geth, at least the Quarians didn't go down quietly. That said, out of a fleet with thousands of ships, some would have got away once they saw that the war was lost.
The Mass Effect writers confirmed this. Several quarian ships broke off and fled. The geth didn't pursue them.
@@82dorrin when was this?
Though there probably aren’t enough survivors to allow the Quarians to have a viable population, nor flee the reapers.
@@jamesxiaolong2199 you are right....
@Khanmanlol uploading now
In my version Legion sacrifices itself, but the Geth and Quarian fleets find peace. I'm so glad. Having Tali commit suicide would have ruined me.
Man this is depressing.
While the Quarians may have started the conflict out of fear, which arguably would be our reaction as well I have no doubt, they don't deserve to be wiped out for it. They've suffered countless casualties, most of which were innocent and didn't even want to be part of the original war but the Geth killed them regardless. Neither side is innocent, in War no one is innocent. The Geth fought to continue their existence, but they killed everyone regardless if they were hostile or not, that includes children, because their logic implied that they would eventually become a threat, how is that innocent? The Quarians acted out of fear, the fear of the unknown, they feared the Geth would rebel if they gained greater sentience because they would realize they are just slaves.
No one is innocent in this conflict. Geth, Quarian, both sides are guilty of something horrible. One was fearful and acted irrationally on it, the other thought that all of the opposition regardless if they were hostile or not were a threat and dealt with it.
The best outcome is peace between them, if peace is impossible it's all about point of view, but nothing can forgive and justify the genocide of an entire species regardless if they are organic or not.
I have to disagree with you saying that the Geth is not innocent.
Yes, they killed innocent civilians(women, children) but you have to remember that the Quarians outifitted weapons into liveships to make them makeshift dreadnoughts even though there was a Galatic treaty prohibitng such actions. The Geth targeted them because it was a threat to them. In fact at the end the Geth Prime says they regret the death of the Quarians.
The blood of the innocent Quarians is in the hands of the admirals. (They were all assholes anyway except for maybe 2 of them)
Peace between them is definitely the best solution but if not that, then it is in the right to side with the Geth for defending themselves. Legion itself says when you side with the Quarians, "This is not justice"
John Lee And it's justice to kill every single one of the quarians just because a minority tried to kill you? They destroy the civilians ships, those that didn't even want to be a part of this madness.
The geth only killed the quarians in the migrant fleet. I haven't heard in any part of the game where it is said that the geth hunt down every single quarians to extinciton after the war. Except, if you assume that all quarians came back to fight you would be right (but remember the quarian female in the citadel?)
Also remember I said that even the civilian ships were made into makeshift dreadnoughts. They would be targeted not because it has civilians on board, but because it would be considered a battleship, a threat. The civilans would essentially be "collateral damage" In that sense, they were forced into the war, not by the geth but by their leaders.
John Lee Which makes them no better, because they see those civilians as "collateral". They claim they regret the death of the creators and yet fight with all their might and spare nobody. Escape pods, shuttles, nothing is spared. they destroy and hunt down everything. As for those who weren't with the fleet. I doubt there's enough of them to make a viable population, essentially, the Quarians are driven to extinction. Yeah, they are far from being innocent. as I said, nobody is innocent in War.
"Yes, they killed innocent civilians(women, children) but you have to remember that the Quarians outifitted weapons into liveships to make them makeshift dreadnoughts even though there was a Galatic treaty prohibitng such actions."
If your life depends on the survival of these ships, you better make sure that in case of attacks you can defend yourself. This is nothing but a reasonable form of protection. But hey, i guess a treaty is more important than the survival of a species that lost its home planet and literally has nothing but these ships. Tell me: how else SHOULD they defend themselves? They don#t have resources to repair ships? Let alone build them.
"The Geth targeted them because it was a threat to them. In fact at the end the Geth Prime says they regret the death of the Quarians."
Threat to them.. oh please. How can it be a threat to them, if they can literally just build countless new ones which are literally all the same? Nothing the quarians could really put up would have destroyed the geth. The geth could also just have stopped it. That is the point. Regret is not the same as remorse. You can regret many things - it does not even have to be an emotional thing - the destruction of the fleet and thus the quarians however was coldblooded AI reasoning.
"The blood of the innocent Quarians is in the hands of the admirals. (They were all assholes anyway except for maybe 2 of them)"
True. But just because some idiot makes the decision to do something stupid - this then gives you the green light to exterminate all of them? No. it does not. At least not as long as you are not a moral-less AI. By that logic things like the chrristmas truce would have never happened. They would have been gunned down as soon as they got out of the trenches - because "well the generals were the evil ones and they made the choice!" When faced with an unjust decision, it is YOU that has to make the right choice, not the enemy.
"Peace between them is definitely the best solution but if not that, then it is in the right to side with the Geth for defending themselves. Legion itself says when you side with the Quarians, "This is not justice""
Genocide is never right. Neither for the geth, nor the quarians. Not even if the admirals are in charge. And that is the thing with "justice" - technically, you cannot blame ANY of the quarians for what had happened in the past. Not one, as as far as i know, no onewas alive back then of these quarians. That is another difference that i doubt get would even GET. To them, death does not exist. you just cease to function. It only existedwhen the free will was given to them.
God, this scene was so sad, I had to undo it and screw the geth over...even though I so badly wanted them on my side. If only I could have rallied the damn fleet!!
This a waste of two species with individuals of great potential.
keelah se'lai, Tali.
Thank god i got both fleets
Yeah, I had the Geth snuff it in the end. I figured in the end, while they deserved life, it shouldn't have been born in the middle of a reaper-apocalypse. I figured there would probably some Geth still out there, so there might be the chance for them after my Sheppard died.
I may have not had enough rep at the time. I made every desision right and ever sidequest, expect in Mass Effect 2, I urged them to go to war. I think that means you don't have the option to have peace no matter how many peace points you get.
wow i didn't cry in any other scene but this one. so glad i got these dopes to get along in my play through.
Letting an entire species die in favour of some machines. Even in my most renegade playthrough, I could never do it. At least the quarian civilians don't deserve this, while there are no Geth civilians
Sentient machines. They are as much of a species as the quarians. The quarians created a race of sentient slaves and tried to commit genocide on them twice. If peace isn't an option between them, I side with the geth all day every day and if Tali doesn't like it I'd kick her off the cliff myself yelling this is sparta.
@@ConnollyUK and i can respect your opinion on that matter. For me, machines, if sentient or not, are just machines, tools to use, without emotional value
This happened on my first play through. Han’Gerrel, I restarted the rannoch arc and made sure to be vindictive to that man and save the quarians.
That’s what happened to me I sure hope in the next game they show tali with more respect
Well... at least they made it home at long last probably not what was planned but they made it ☄🔥☄
the quarians did this to themselves. the geth are like the reapers, and the quarians the leviathans. their destruction is on no one but them. they created the geth, gave them weapons, bodies, and intelligence, and they rebelled when the quarians feared them, acting in self defence. they are just going to be another in what will be a long forgotten list of races committed to genocide because of their own misuse of technology.
even the ones that said they wanted peace and they wanted to stop fighting continued to fight when they could just have easily turned their ships around and left when things went south. instead they allowed racism, fear, and distrust to cloud their judgements and they went guns blazing when they were repeatedly told if they went on, it would be a genocide. even tali is clouded by racism.
and lets say we choose and pick the peace option, how long will that last? a month? a year? however long it takes for the quarians to gain a strong enough foothold on their world that they think they can shove the geth off? and what then?! shepard will be dead, so we cant bail them out when they get knocked on their asses again, and genocided once more! itll be a bloodbath, and we cant stay there and pick up the pieces.
the quarians are the perfect example of what the reapers are trying to prevent. the destroyer said so itself. like the renegade shepard says, we should be tired of having to bail them out from being destroyed by the geth and we shouldnt do it any longer.
whats worse is the quarians constantly wave the victim card around going "oh please feel sorry for us, we were forced off our homeworld by machines who we fired upon first, oh woe is me. We are the true victims"
stop being idiots did that for the advice they acted so for them also every race in the galaxy hated the geths, if they say that the geths are better they are some assholes .They were allied with the reapers 2 times they deserve their death as the scrap they are
Good thing that kill those machines are not trustworthy death to the geths,Geth victims that is a very stupid and childish rat children's joke
@@carlosdavidsabogalmotta4327
The geth that allied with the reaper those 2 times before the finale event where a small radical faction from the main geth group. The only reason the geth allied with the reapers a finale time was because the quarins forced them into it for their own survival.
@@carlosdavidsabogalmotta4327 do you even English?
@@TheBiggestMoneyBoy what happened to the heretics geth was their fault ,the quarianos did not have nothing to see were the heretics who got involved with the reapers, them were well in geth space but considered themselves superior to the organics and allied with the reapers
To avoid this outcome just get tali nkt be exiled in 2 destroy the hertics on legions loyalty mission then whrn tali points a gun at legion use paragon defuse the situation and then in 3 just get 4 bars of paragon do the rannoch geth fighter squadron rescue koris do priority rannoch destroy the reaper then save both fleets boom
This happened to me on my first play through, as soon as Tali fell over the edge I Alt+F4’d the fuck out of the game and destroyed the geth.
It happened to me too and I will never forgive myself for it even though I restarted
also 🤬 BioWare for doing this to Tali instead of liara
I'm glad I've always managed to avoid this or destroying the Geth. It would destroy me to see Tali and her people, or Legion and the Geth all die out.
Just like in star wars order 66 😢 when talis people dies
That exactly what I did, and I didn't have any option except to choose Geth or Quarian.
Don't cry! Don't cry! Don't cry!
...Shit.
You can almost feel the awful truth sinking into Admiral Bastard Han Gerrel as he sits there and waits for the final Geth round to blow his sip to smithereens.
sorry tali, but love interest or not i cant chose your muderous people over a people who only acted in self defence the entire time
the geth didnt want to do it: the quarians forced their hands
even when given the option to run away they still chose violence "denied all ships, full barage" not one of them stood up and said "nah fuck this im taking my ship and leaving this, the geth wont chase me if im not firing my guns like a jackass"
the geth only acted, as legion said, in self defence: ALL those civilian ships had massive guns on them and where firing at the geth
You are completely wrong
@@Quole1234 how so? the geth are acting in self defence, every ship the quarians have all have guns on them - what other choice do they have when they keep getting attacked?
@@midgerm you fell for Bioware's manipulation in ME3. The devs even said they wanted as close to a 50/50 split as possible, so they made the quarians out to be unlikable idiots in the third game. They even admitted they went too far. This is why many of the quarians you meet in ME3 are douchebags, this is why they made siding with the geth the top option, knowing that most players play paragon, this is why they originally titled the 2 options as 'let the geth die' and 'upload the code' (instead of 'let the quarians die' for the latter), this is why Tali doesn't even try to argue with legion at the end, this is why everyone in the entire situation is too stupid to just tell the quarian fleet that the geth are about to be reaper upgraded, etc. They did EVERYTHING to manipulate the ignorant players in ME3. There's an entire geth propaganda mission that tries to make you sympathize with them. that's how damning the case against the geth actually is. And you fell for it.
The geth are more at fault here, by far. They could have brokered for peace a long time ago but they never did. They perpetuated their reputation as villains to the galaxy by attacking anyone that entered their space and allowing the heretics to side with the reapers in ME1/2 and never tried to warn anyone. So they are just as at fault as the heretics are. The irony here is that most of the quarians didnt want to go to war. You cant blame all the quarians for the actions of gerrel but you CAN blame all the geth because they came to a consensus about letting the heretics attempt to wipe out all life in the galaxy and then not warn anyone. If it were not for Shepard the heretics AND the true geth would have been responsible for wiping out galactic civilization.
Also, the idea that the geth were actually defending themselves during the Morning War is hilarious when you consider the extent in which they killed the quarians. Committing genocide is not defending yourselves. Killing millions of children is not self defence. They could have disabled the civilian ships, and just destroyed the more combat oriented ones, or they could have just killed the actual dangerous quarians, instead of massacring the defenseless ones. And remember they created this war when they isolated themselves and tried to wipe out all life in the galaxy. did you forget about that? Was that self defence?
Let's break this down:
-The geth achieve self awareness, unknowingly to the qurians.
-The quarians panic because not only is AI tech illegal, but the geth will undoubtedly rebel. So the quarians try to shut them down.
-The geth start a war and win. During that war they kill billions of innocents, including billions of children. However they do allow the remaining quarians to flee.
- The geth then become violent isolationists that attack anyone that enters their space, as well as ignoring any communication attempts by the council. As a result, the rest of the galaxy sees them as violent machines and nothing more. Besides one example that I will get in to, the geth never try to communicate with anyone or let the rest of the galaxy know that the heretics are not the same as the true geth.
-The geth finally leave their space to ally with Sovereign in his attempt to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines. The entire rest of the galaxy sees them as this. Not just the quarians but literally everyone. In fact the quarians have more geth sympathizers than anyone else. This btw is the most damning thing the geth do, and for some reason everyone ignores it. First off, a portion of them side with the reapers in trying to wipe out all life. By your logic of blaming the admirals for the actions of all the quarians, all of the geth should be blamed for joining the reapers, no? What's worse is that the true geth ALLOW them to do it, which means you would actually be RIGHT in blaming all of the geth for this, unlike blaming all of the quarians for ME3. The true geth don't try to stop the heretics, and they don't try to warn anyone. Again, if it wasn't for shepard they would have succeeded. Why are they getting a pass for this?? This is the single worst thing that any of the major races in ME has done.
-The geth send ONE SINGLE platform to try and communicate with Shepard. Even if you bring Legion with you on Tali's loyalty mission where a truce could easily be attained, both parties don't even bother. legion doesn't even try to negotiate with the quarians and neither do they. This is much worse on legion's part however because remember, as far as everyone in the galaxy knows, the geth are nothing more than violent machines. Legion had the perfect opportunity to dispel this myth right then and there, as well as throughout the rest of the game. But no, he doesn't even try. Btw this is just a massive oversight by the writers. There is no reason the entire war couldn't have ended right then and there. Also, before you say 'legion said that the quarians would attack 100% of the time' no, what he actually said was 'the quarians attacked if they believed they could achieve victory 100% of the time', which makes total sense when you believe you are at war with violent AIs that want you dead.
-The quarians need their home back because not only would it take decades or centuries more to acclimate to another planet, but there are even examples of the council kicking the quarians off of worlds that they try to claim. In addition the quarians need a world to protect their noncombatants during a potential war with the reapers. All of this is explained by Gerrel and the other admirals in ME2.
- The quarians find a counter measure that would disable the geth and allow the quarians to safely claim their home world and eliminate the dangerous violent AIs (remember no one in the galaxy except for Shepard and maybe his crew even know that the true geth exist, and that peace is even a possibility).
- As the quarians are doing this, the geth side with the reapers as they begin invading the galaxy (something legion said they would never do). Not only does this prove that Legion is a liar and a hypocrite, it means that the geth are a massive liability against the reapers. What is to stop them from allying with the reapers again once things start to go poorly for the alliance in the final battle? In fact this logic is identical to what Saren was using in ME1. Saren claimed that organics could maybe survive if they allied with the reapers. That is exactly what Legion and the geth are doing now. if it weren't for Shepard, the geth would have destroyed the quarians and then been another gigantic threat to everyone else as the reapers are invading (because the geth would be under their control).
- the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth. Gerrel makes a dumb decision to keep fighting which traps all of the civilian ships (which we learn never wanted to be there in the first place).
- shepard then makes a decision to either side with the quarians, or side with the geth.
Somehow you think the geth were in the right here. The violent isolationists that sided with the galaxy destroying reapers on numerous occasions. Even if the majority didn't originally join them, they allow that minority to do so and never tried to warn anyone. This is also ignoring the fact that the geth have been proven to be prone to reprogramming and brainwashing. Not only have they willingly sided with the reapers several times, but in ME2 you can mind control the heretics on legion's loyalty mission. Imagine how easily it would be for the reapers to do the same, especially with their own upgrades on the geth lol. Even your squadmates can control them with in game abilities.
In addition there's a million things wrong with how the geth handled the entire situation in ME3. For example, Legion even says that the geth have no need of Rannoch..... so why are they still there? It's the one thing in the universe that the quarians want more than anything, and the geth have to be aware of that. Instead they isolated themselves in last place they should have. They basically forced the quarians' hands here. Had they actually tried to communicate with the quarians and broker peace, as well as just leaving Rannoch, then much of this could have been averted. In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet when the quarians attacked. First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking)Legion even says that Rannoch holds no value to the geth) , but also of all the planets to trap themselves on they picked the absolute worst one. The one planet that the quarians wanted more than anything is the one they picked to corner themselves on. A planet that holds no value to them
@@Quole1234 d'awww man, i had reply for you but youtube is being funny and wont let me post it
i'll try posting it in two parts: heres part 1
"-The geth achieve self awareness, unknowingly to the qurians."
good for the geth, yet still the quarians tell the geth to shut down - now they are aware they dont want to - this leads to the quarians attacking the geth and attempting to FORCE them to
"-The quarians panic because not only is AI tech illegal, but the geth will undoubtedly rebel. So the quarians try to shut them down."
if AI are illigal then how is it the geths fault the quarians ignored the law and built them anyway? are children born of rape to be blamed for the actions of the criminal?
also "because the geth will undoubtedly rebel?" did you PLAY mass effect 3 the geth Prove in all choices that they would prefer peace
legion says as much uploading the code: "we regret the deaths of the creators but we see no alternative"
if the geth win: "we regret the deaths of the creators"
if the quarians DONT fire at the geth "you are welcome to return to rannoch admiral, with us"
"-The geth start a war and win. During that war they kill billions of innocents, including billions of children. However they do allow the remaining quarians to flee."
they REBELED against genocide, they fought BACK - the quarians started the war by using force to try to exterimnate the geth
but i AM interested in the children aspect; where in mass effect lore does it say that children where killed? i have yet to see that
"- The geth then become violent isolationists that attack anyone that enters their space, as well as ignoring any communication attempts by the council. As a result, the rest of the galaxy sees them as violent machines and nothing more. Besides one example that I will get in to, the geth never try to communicate with anyone or let the rest of the galaxy know that the heretics are not the same as the true geth."
the geth attacking all organics that enter their territory might make sense as the geth acheived sentience it does not mean they are smart like you or i - they might assumme all organics are hostile to geth just like the quarians are - ESPECIALLY if they learn about the laws of the galaxy and that one that makes AI illegal: if their own creators are anything to go by; then it means the council races will want to 'correct that mistake'
as for ignoring communication that is an interesting one; the whole concensus thing, the rule of vote being needed for geth to make decisions it might be that they decide its safer to simply keep to themselves
as for the heretics not being the same as the true geth, technically they are its just they come to different conclusions - one decides on somthing, the rest are okay with it and let them leave - again, legion says as much
"we understood the heretics reason for wanting to leave and we allowed it"
"-The geth finally leave their space to ally with Sovereign in his attempt to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines."
the HERETICS ally with soverign, the normal geth are the ones that join the reapers but not by choice, shepard says as much
"-you forced them ally with the reapers"
if a force is seemingly DETIRMED to wipe you out and a larger force comes along that could easily help you defeat them thus ensuring your survival, would you not take it? any smart human would, alliances in world war 2 say as much
@@Quole1234 and here be part 2
"The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines."
oh okay, so all the german civilians of world war 2 where nazi's then, there were NO 'germans' it was all nazi, thats what im getting from what you said
a reputation is just how others see you: the reasons for how you are acting be dammed
the geth were getting the aushwitz treatment and didnt want to be turned off, so they fought back - whenever the quarians brought force to bear, the geth responeded in kind
as for blaming the quarians for the actions of the admiral; in this particular instance? when you are in a car that has cannons, sure, why not - but when your WIFE AND KIDS are in the back seat and your going up against a similarly armed vehichle? I'D give second thoughts before provoking an amred response
"-The geth send ONE SINGLE platform to try and communicate with Shepard"
still a sacrifice when you consider that your in a galaxy where your OWN creators tried to wipe you out and you have great reason to suspect the rest of the creatures in the galaxy will do the same - remember there are millions of softwares in a single geth unit like legion, hence he takes time to "come to concensus" or make up his mind
"-The quarians need their home back because not only would it take decades or centuries more to acclimate to another planet, but there are even examples of the council kicking the quarians off of worlds that they try to claim.-"
the quarians did that to themselves did they not? as you said: its their own fault, they created their reputation they have.
in this case the quarians have the reputation for creating an AI that (from outside perspectives) rebelled against its creators - so being kicked off other planets makes sense from the councils perspective; their just gonna make more AI arent they
"-In addition the quarians need a world to protect their noncombatants during a potential war with the reapers. All of this is explained by Gerrel and the other admirals in ME2."
ship wise they HAVE no non-combatents: EVERY. SINGLE. SHIP. has cannons and guns
the fact that quarians are still alive today shows that the geth DID let their 'non combatents' go and what happened? the geth now have to defend themselves from relentless attacks from the people they spared - plus, that limited intellect again; EVERY quarian they have met so far has wanted them dead and has had a gun; if the geth do not yet have their 'true intelligence" from the reaper code then its not hard to see the geth sofware deciding in a vote that the quarians are not worth the risk of sparing
recall the interactions LEGION has had with quarians on contact
" *shpard walks in with legion in tow, both slow and calm* GETH GET DOWN *starts shooting at him* "
"this is a facsinating prototype, with some study i might be able to find a weakness in the geth concensus.....so did your pistol, should i care about ITS feelings as well?"
"- The quarians find a counter measure that would disable the geth and allow the quarians to safely claim their home world and eliminate the dangerous violent AIs (remember no one in the galaxy except for Shepard and maybe his crew even know that the true geth exist, and that peace is even a possibility). "
so complete genocide then? what does "disable" mean to a machine here?
why do you think its still a debated topic on if dropping the bombs at hiroshima and nagasaki to end ww2 should be seen as acceptable or not? they "disabled" the japanese....by bombing cities that houses civilians
" - As the quarians are doing this, the geth side with the reapers as they begin invading the galaxy (something legion said they would never do). Not only does this prove that Legion is a liar and a hypocrite, it means that the geth are a massive liability against the reapers. What is to stop them from allying with the reapers again once things start to go poorly for the alliance in the final battle? "
while the quarians are prepareing to wipe out all geth a species of intelligent machines comes along and can promise to keep them safe from the organics who want them exctinct
legion is not a liar or hypocrite, when he left the concensus at the time would have been less strained then it was now PLUS the reapers offered them reaper code that gave them their GREATLY sought after true intelligence: instead of thousands of software inside a single geth unit voting for somthing its a single being making the choice for themselves
they would have had no alternative: if you want the true intelect you have sought for so long, somthing to make you TRULY alive and not just a baby taking its first steps; you must join us
in their first moment of true inteligence: of being individuals - geth fighters sacrifice themselves to protect the larger geth ships
the geth aproach shepard and offer their condolences on legions passing and that they will help fight the reapers; ending with a lament that they regret having to kill their creators
if i take a german from before WW2 and tell him the horror his people will unleash, he'll find it hard to belive if not impossible
"That is exactly what Legion and the geth are doing now. if it weren't for Shepard, the geth would have destroyed the quarians and then been another gigantic threat to everyone else as the reapers are invading (because the geth would be under their control)."
again, because the only way to acheive their individuality is to allow the reaper to upgrade them, and then its too late, the reaper has control
if shepard was not here then in their desperation to avoid excintion at the hands of their organic creators and the rest of the galaxy that seems to want them dead the geth would have accepted the helping hand the reapers offered when they offered them not only an alliance but TRUE intelligence: individuality - somthing they have sought for so long - but in turn would become slaves
thena gain, if it was not for shepard, sarren would have brought the reapers in much sooner, the elusive man wouldnt have helped much and the council would remain as divided as they ever have
" - the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth. Gerrel makes a dumb decision to keep fighting which traps all of the civilian ships (which we learn never wanted to be there in the first place). "
again, are there any civilian ships if they all have Massive guns that are shooting at you right this second
" Legion even says that the geth have no need of Rannoch..... so why are they still there? It's the one thing in the universe that the quarians want more than anything, and the geth have to be aware of that. Instead they isolated themselves in last place they should have. They basically forced the quarians' hands here. Had they actually tried to communicate with the quarians and broker peace, as well as just leaving Rannoch, then much of this could have been averted. "
the geth are not yet the individuals with true inteligence so its possible that the geth dont want to leave their home world, as they where born on rannoch too, not just the quarians
another reason and this one was slightly mentioned by legion; it holds an important place in their memory as well as being a graveyard for those who fought and died there, geth and quarian
yet another reason is whats to stop the quarians from going after the geth with more strenght once they have a world again? legion states creators attack 100% of the time when they believe victory can be acheived
as for why they dont attempt to communicate; who's to say they didnt and simply got the reply: "if you want peace then shut down"
and again, that limited intellect; half might vote to communicate peace talks, the other half might simply wish to be left alone
" In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet when the quarians attacked. First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking)Legion even says that Rannoch holds no value to the geth) , but also of all the planets to trap themselves on they picked the absolute worst one "
its possbile the reaper chose it; the destroyer if i recall was in a hole in the ground, possibly to avoid being hit from orbit
in that regard im not sure, but it seems neither are you
"- the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth."
"-In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet"
if you can get trapped in space where you have an infinite number of directions in which to flee, then i cant really see a reason that a planet which at least means they can only come at you from the sky cant be a good defencive position
" First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking "
and give the quarian reason to strengthen their hold on rannoch and then come persuing the geth? if the geth keep getting attacked when they stay where they are then why in the hell would the geth assume that the quarians would not simply persue them when they are fleeing?
"creators attack 100% of the time when they believe they can acheive victory"
why would a fleeing enemy not seem like an easy target?
WW2 the axis powers are losing, yet no matter how depper into their own homeland the nazi's run the allies continue to persue them - i wonder why?
somthing to remember about the geth: self awareness is NOT true intelligence
sad thing is legion acheived true intelligence at the end and still chose to sacrifiece himself for his people
"shepard, i must go to them.....i.....i'm sorry, its the onyl way"
he said 'I' instead of 'we'
edi talks about it further
I would choose both but like the game even states in the mass effect universe the geth are a reminder of why AI's are so dangerous. I mean I cannot really blame the Quarians for attempting to shut down the Geth .
You kind of can, given the geth showed no hostile intentions towards the creators until they began exterminating them. The point mass effect is trying to drive home it that no matter how different all races and cultures can coexist peacefully, including AI.
+Itudios2 Lets hope that ideal holds true if/when we create AI's.
The problem is that AI are illegal in the galactic community. If the Quarians spared the Geth, they'd be in a war with everyone wanting to exterminate the AI. This was not a Black and White issue.
ltflak No, because the other species don't rebel if you chose to save both of them.
ltflak it became illigal due to the geth-quarian conflict
My first ever playthrough I chose this one because I thought it was the right thing to do. But after seeing what unfolded, It just brought tears to my eyes and I just kept saying: "what have I done?" :'( And when Han'Gerrel realises its over... Dunno how you can watch a Quarian liveship be destroyed knowing there are innocent civilians (women and children) and say that choosing the geth was the right choice.
It's personally what virtues you hold higher. Justice for the geth, or mercy for the quarians?
+Itudios2 screw that in mass effect shepard don't choose the A out B option he chooses the save everyone and screw the odds option
I'm glad to kill the geths they do not serve me in the end anyway they are not trustworthy, I'm glad to take the correct decision to kill those machines
And in the End choose the destroy ending so that the quarians all died for nothing.
Sabotage the genophage and kill mordin and wrex
Choose synthesis ending. Cure sabotage and the deaths of wrex and mordin were for nothing.
#N7Male
That all well and good, but again, it's in the middle of a Reaper-Apocalypse. Sure, the Geth have it rough, but granting them life in such a wishful thinking. What the Quarians did (WAY back in the past) was reasonable because AI were VERY illegal and had the bad habit of killing all life. If the Quarians had not tried to stop the Geth from coming into being, the Asari would probably start bombing their homeworld anyway. Another time and place, then yes, the Geth should be granted life...
at least jonah will be with his parents now in wherever quarians go when they die
Look I dont care if I'm evil by saying this. But the quarians created the geth for labor. To make their life easy. They executed a kill order on all geth when they carelessly didn't bother first taking into account just how far they allowed them to develop in terms of consensus then committed all future quarians efforts and livelihoods into taking back their home. Going to war even when it meant their possible collective demise. And even when the geth was freed from the reaper, when they were at their mercy and not wanting to fight them. The quarians opened fire anyway. And one of their admirals in ME 2 even broached the subject of reprogramming then to be their servants again. Or creating new ones after they supposedly win.
Does this unit have a soul?
All that quarian had to do at the time is say yes or explain their purpose in a way that doesnt cause them to question it themselves.
No. Its kill them they are moaning about a soul.
Again on rannoch. Take a hint, they stopped firing, they were open and completely vulnerable. Should we look into why? Hold for confirmation on the geths status???
No... let's blow them the fuck up if we can.
STAND DOWN!!
Nah let's not...
The quarians in every way deserved this..
You are literally using a computer or phone to write your comments, things specifically designed to make your life easy. Also your argument about the Quarians could be turned right around; the Geth could have just as easily left Rannoch and flown off into space somewhere, they did not NEED to live on Rannoch. They're robots, they can live anywhere. In fact, it was probably a lot more difficult to drive off _all_ of the Quarians than just _leave._
@@GoddoDoggo aside from everything else in this comment, I should say my computer definitely doesn't have a soul or any kind of independent judgement on humanity, it runs on Windows 7 for christ sake. And it still has office programs from 2005.
It's hardly a potential overlord right now.
As far as Rannoch goes I'll concede you have a point, but I was more annoyed with how the notion of peace when it was staring point blank in their faces, still wasn't enough for them to apply thought into what could be and instead committed millions of fellow quarians to death over a world they did without for so long anyway. Not to mention the reapers fleets and how retaking their home is far from important anymore compared to galactic survival.
everything you said is wrong.
Anyone know of a video where Shepard "warns the fleet" (renegade option) instead of rallying them?
If I choose this I cry 😭😭
Damn Geth
Ouch. From what I read somewhere, that actually isn't super important. You need to at least finish Legion and Tali's loyalty missions and destroy the heretics in Legion's mission. That should net you 5-6 points - enough to pass the check for this choice. That's what Fluffy mentioned.
Yes and do the geth fighter squadron and rescue koris as well before the final mission on rannoch
The geth are killed anyway by the crucible
Why isnt there a 2 monitor wallpaper of the first second of this vid
Well technically they did get back to their home world
They went there and there and there
I usually pick this option, if Tali died in ME2.
Idiot
It was facinating. Mind blowing. And then I got thirsty.
I chose this on my first run and fucking died inside as tali fell to her fucking death.
like u wouldnt have done the same or like u would have loved the geth? i dont think so
I don't think it's particularly fair the way people are blaming the Quarians for the war. They're a completely separate culture from ours, hell it seems like they've formed the belief of returning to their homeworld into a religion. I'm pretty sure the exact facts of the initial war have been lost to them. You're not even sure that you've accumulated ALL of the facts. Taking an outsider's view of it, obviously you're going to find flaws in their actions.
This game knows how to hurt you
Aw man, sorry. Short of replaying the game I guess, there's nothing you can do. Congrats, you're responsible for the genocide of the Quarians or Geth.
I hope mass effect 4 has this kind of emotional impact
Why didnt they just destroy Gerrels ship?
They did.
They destroyed the fleet, not just the one ship.
How would they know which one is Gerrel’s ship?
@Elfinlocksable seems to me quarians have a bit of a hard time understanding peacefull sulutions...most eh time
Can you do one where the quarians and the geth make peace and Legion sacrifices himself?
Don't be prepared to start a war you can't finish, suit-rats. Shepard isn't here to sort out your idiotic problems. He/she's here to recruit for a war. That's it.
It'd be cool if you chose to let the quarians die then somehow Legion survives and replaces Tali as ur squadmate or that geth prime at the end.
It's 2018 and speciesist bigots are still dropping "suit-rats"? I thought we were past that.
Well, if things are like that I'm glad to kill those junk and legion die anyway
@@Quole1234 on my first playthru in ME2 in the suicide mission Tali was the only one who died, got headshotted by a collector, lol
@@Quole1234 no idea y anyone would romance a quarian, romancing a quarian would be like romancing a terminally ill patient thanks to their weak immune system. Y bother romancing someone u could wind up accidentally killing when humans, turian's and asari exist?
They are peaceful and have an interest in understanding organics.
What is the name of the song that starts at the beginning of the video?
I'm Sorry
When I seen this, I felt bad and I wanted them to live. But when I saw the history of the Geth... I don't feel good about depriving a race of true life. Although a game, but still.
I got this scene the first time I played. I then proceeded to shut off my console, re-load an earlier save, and try again. This continued for many days.
Yeah, it's almost impossible if you didn't play ME2 I believe, as Tali needed to be acquitted
The Quarian are good :
Morning War : The fault of some Quarians scientists and engineers not the civilian !
Rannoch War : The fault of the Admirality not the civilian !
Majority of population supported killing the geth once they asked if they have a soul. There is a country, that also had a population witch supported genocide. Guess which one...
@@warwolf3005 all those quarians are dead. Do you judge modern germans by what happened in WW2?
I love how idiotic is this scene. Shepard let the quarian die and then tries to save probably the only survivor.
It's not idiotic at all. I get peace on all of my playthroughs but if that wasn't possible, why would anyone ever side with the quarians? They created a race of sentient slaves and then tried to commit genocide against them once they released they were sentient. No attempt to converse, no negotiation. They went straight to genocide. And then in ME3 they start a pointless war while the entire galaxy is at risk from the reapers. Fuck the Quarians, honestly.
Scenes like this make it hard for me to view the quarians as the "good" side. The geth have always been just striving for existence and even let the quarians survive instead of wiping them out when the war started. The quarians on the other hand basically committed suicide because of their blinding hatred.
I gotta be honest: Since I wasn't able to bring peace between the Geth and the Quarians, I ended up siding with the Geth because they really wwere innocent victims (and that the Quarians dug their own graves).
you are compeltely wrong. The geth were way waorse than the quarians. And to say that millions of innocents, including children, 'dug their graves' proves you didn't pay attention at all. You got manipulated by bioware.
The Geth willingly sided with the reapers twice, who is to say they won't again? The only Geth that doesn't actively shoot at us before this scene in ME3 is Legion
@@clover4522yeah It doesn’t make any sense and they made me never forgive myself for this paragon trap I mean Elnora is one thing but this is just awful if any race should go extinct it should be the asari
@@Quole1234I was manipulated but in my defense it’s a paragon trap and peace wasn’t on screen I mean they could’ve instead said something like “let the quarians die” or “let the geth die” I mean it’s not that clear especially when speech checks don’t appear on screen
I restarted the mission though so that I could get payback at the geth for betraying my trust and to save tali’s people
At least Gerrel died like a warrior, looking right into enemy face.
That’s not really a comfort to the millions of other Quarians dying because he was too stupid to accept a peaceful solution.