The manufacture was WRONG and I proved it!
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2024
- This is not to call out a specific company, or the people who were in the video, and no disrespect towards either is meant. This is a direct response to the massive amounts of hate and name calling that I got for saying that what was said in the video was incorrect.
The problem is that since video La saying this were put out as training videos by multiple companies, and some were training and "certification" companies, there are a bunch of operators who adamantly believe it's correct, and refuse to open there eyes to look at simple physics to see that it's not. I got absolutely blasted for claiming the big companies were wrong, so I decided to put my money where my mouth is and buy a load cell to prove it one way or another with actual numbers. Turns out, I was right.
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There are a lot of people surprised by how little pulling force it took to stand the bus up.
But that was expected since a bus, and especially a completely stripped one like this, has almost all of its weight concentrated below the floor. Meaning that when it’s on its side it’s basically a book standing on edge, and is therefore very easy to push over. Yes the roof structure is weight added to the far side, but that is far outweighed by the fact that the roof is essentially acting as a 10-12’ long lever helping me push that book over. Just like standing a book up vs pushing it over, it takes much more force to flip the bus than it does to upright it.
👋 I never said anything in your other videos because.🤷♂️ I knew you were right.👍👍👍👍 According to fulcrum points in brilliant
.
o r g
Hey Casey....
you may say "I never said I was good at this" but watching you test theories and actually SHOW how it works, I'm saying you're VERY GOOD AT IT !!!😎
Safe travels, friend ❤❤
Stay FROSTY...
Keep your powder dry and your head on a swivel...
🇺🇲🇺🇲WWG1WGA🇺🇲🇺🇲NCSWIC🇺🇲🇺🇲
@@lopin890 I never said I was good at this, but I also never said I wasn’t..
@CaseyLaDelle and this is why I hate Casey LaDelle! Wish I'd had time to come visit when I was in Oregon earlier this month (even if it would have been weird, lol)
Problem is that you measured the force in European killagrams but a Ford that old was certainly made in good old fashioned American pounds. 1 "KG" is only one thing but 1 killedgram is 2.204622622 pounds. So, 2.204622622 being a bigger number than 1, it follows logickally that you cannot measure force on an old American made truck with units made in Europe. Least ways, not with any accuracy. And since I have two college degrees and a Federal license all in a totally unrelated field, my math is bigger than your math.
[I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REVISE AND EXTEND MY REMARKS ]
The folks who rudely said you were wrong are the same ones who failed high school physics.
I never took physics class... a lot of classes for that matter.
I was a special needs student with a poor program for that.
I have Asbergers syndrome.
I have basic understanding of physics, but couldn't give a detailed explanation of the subject.
I generally don't add my two cents unless I actually learned information on said subject to give my opinion.
I'm self aware of my flaws.
Mind you, I operate heavy machinery where physics applies.
I'm a visual learner and put what I've seen into practice safely.
Give The Accountant with Ben Affleck a watch.
That natural talent with numbers is what mine is with machinery as I am not sure how else to explain it.
lol so true
@@erikwilliam1254
"Book smarts" doesn't mean intelligence. One of my nephews is similar with you. He can watch something being done then can replicate it, fine tune and do better in many cases. But he cannot read or stand to have someone watching him. With over 20 years less experience than myself and for many other can weld like he was born with a welder in hand.
Uh, Wutz Fiziks.........
I'm not even going to watch this. You are exactly right, this is physics 101.
I love how you set the perfect "hater" trap and they fall in it every time.
someone, at a towing manufacturing plant, has just ordered t-shirts for all his/her staff. 😂
We can only hope.
You know what all the haters should do? They should buy an 'I Hate Casey LaDelle' t-shirt, just to show the world how much they hate you! (and comment for the algorithm, too ;-) )
The school bus should be made into a club house for your baby girl
@@jerryshira I have seen school buses turned into RV's .. that might be swell ...
What all the haters should do is not only buy that T-shirt, but also have to appear in a video and retract their accusations! The moment that bullies are stood-up to is the moment they back down.
In my opinion I say that all 15,000 haters should donate $1 for a tracked wheelchair so Casey can prove them wrong as Casey flips the tracked wheelchair in the upright position and then donate it to Bruce Cook....
I still hate Casey ladelle but love his content and common sense....
@@novavroomvroom3435I love this idea!
Quick reference for those who want freedom units: 1kg ~= 2.205lbs
You got it backwards. The official U.S. reference standard for mass is the kilogram, and has been since 1893. The U.S. Customary Unit called the pound is defined as exactly 0.45359237 kg. 😉
@@barryomahony4983 yeah but he called it a "FREEDOM UNIT" which obviously makes him MAGA and everyone knows MAGA is 100% truth sayers
@@pctatc66 Joey said he commuted over Francis Scott Key Bridge by “car and by train” Never been tracks on that bridge
@@pctatc66 while I don't believe in the MAGA campaign (I'm not even from the USA myself) I called it a freedom unit to distinguish US Customary from the British Imperial System (my frame of reference for non-metric units), although they are technically the same when it comes to lbs.
@@barryomahony4983 I would have put it the other way around, but converting kg to lbs requires a multiplication, and it's easier for most people to roughly multiply by 2.2 than divide by 0.45. I also wasn't aware of the definition of lbs according to the US government, given my preference for Metric (mostly) and living in the UK.
At this point, I'm sure if Casey were to eat a banana on video, several people would get upset because he opened it the wrong way and/or didn't bite it correctly.
Sad fact is that you are 100% correct ...
or that banana is bad, wrong kind of banana !!!!
I'd be mad if he didn't eat large enough bites...
They always complain aboyt something .. but that helps the algorithm as people will defend "our" Casey.
Neither method can provide downward force on the bus wheels. The amount the chain can pull "down" on the frame is counter acted by the "upward" force at the bottom corner of the body. All the external forces applied by the winchline are resolved at the point that the line stops touching the bus.
I suspect the main advantage of wrapping around is that the hook is on solid structure.
Exactly. On most vehicles the frame is the first solid anchor point you would get to.
The only reason I can see for grabbing the top rail has more to do with the mechanical properties of the rail. The flat of the C in compression is the strongest versus the legs of the C in compression. Likewise pulling on the leg of the C while it’s in compression can lead to failure of the leg in buckling.
And yes you cannot add downward force to the bus or object by pulling upward.
The physics of it are the weight at location of cog swing the pivot point minus the pull force at the tangent to the object times the distance from the pivot point must equal zero at the instant of lift.
@@josephlawless6013 Excellent points about the detail on how the c-channel gets loaded by the hook or strap.
On busses I have used a snatch block off the bottom of the wrecker unit, Chain to the bus frame over the tires and set a 6x6 on the side of the rim. Pull the chain over the rim across the 6x6 and use the leverage to pull it over. Sometimes you can't get around the bus. That method uses downward force on the low side tires to roll it over. Mostly in rural areas with limited space.
Love how you show exactly how it works. Nice job
@@videoviewer2008
👍 that's what I think too.
I usually don't read through comments, but I'm here for them on this vid.. How dare Casey use logic and scientific proof???
Too bad 30% of your fellow Americans can't follow suit.
Exactly, that's not very woke of you Casey.. Watch out for the cancel police
How dare he use common sense.
I know, the nerve of the guy, eh?
Casey says he’s not going to risk tearing his bag open again then he climbs up the side of the bus . Be careful dude
Tearing the 'bag' is way crappier than the stoma! In completely different ways! Just sayin!
...and now a word from our algorithm-feeding peanut gallery: I spent 40+ years in a technical industry that required on a daily basis the kind of creativity that Casey shows in almost every video. Safety matters. Results count. Procedures vary. No boss ever asked me if I "followed proper procedure". Their only concerns were fix it fast and keep the cost down. Casey knows how to do stuff. If I were ever in the kind of mess that Casey's special skills are geared to I would feel good if he was the cavelry riding to my rescue.
Got to comment to raise the numbers of the algorithm ..
As someone in the corporate world. A lot of people don’t realize how much is run by insurance. I guarantee when those videos were made on training, the guys writing them knew it never made a difference. They just had to make it sound like there was a difference and they had to choose one method and run with it. So when the nincompoops of the world did something wrong, their asses were covered. Like pulling on something not meant to be pulled on and it ripping off. That’s why everything even the stupidest of objects come with a warning label. A lot of people also don’t realize how far you can pass the buck when there is a lawsuit in motion. Always someone else to blame. Great video Casey!!
Hit the nail on the head with this!
Entirely possible.
Btw. As for warning labels. Doing pre purchase on Polaris snow mobiles imported from the US some fifteen years ago, I almost peed my pants with laughter realizing they had put warning labels on the head bolts informing me not to remove the bolt and head as the engine was running.
I immidiately got a strong urge to try it. Boss said I wasn’t allowed to unless I bought the machine.
Thanx Casey for spending the time to show people the numbers.
For those that still argue.... draw a 2D square on grid paper, do your vector maths and you will see it doesn't make a difference. Don't know how to do vector maths? Why are you arguing then?!
Yeah idk how to do that, I ain’t vectored a math even once. Never touched the stuff.
You don’t need a lick of math however to see why Casey is right here. The corners/edges of the bus that the cable is wrapping around are basically acting as a pulley/fulcrum for the rope. Which means all the forces applied to the bus are being kept internal, the rope wrapped around the bus constricting it like a snake.
The only point that would have any impact the energy requirement, from the busses perspective, would be where the rope actually leaves the bus. Gluing a 20ft pole to the side of the bus and pulling on that would make it significantly easier.
@@kevcom000it's called a stiff leg and we used it in Towing all the time
Top vs bottom matters if you are trying to tip it from closer where the rope has more of a vertical component. In this case, the rope is nearly horizontal, and so the difference is nearly negligible when it comes to peak load.
I am convinced that he had it in KG and not lbs was for engagement generation purposes to get people to comment "but there is a KG/LBS button on the remote".
People don’t realize what a marketing genius Casey is, and they fall right into his expertly crafted trap! (I too, am a guy that found out I was rather good at it…without the fancy degree)
I was just happy it was in KGs.
I have to agree, I have been rolling loads for about 50 years.
I wish I could remember what Ross Kinman's take was on this.
And I gotta dig out my "We the Professionals " book and see what Jackson had.
I'm sure the Holmes corporation had a tree involved in this rollover!
Explains all the tissue boxes and lotion bottles.
I imagine mom looking out the window of the house saying Casey is playing with his trucks again. And a flashback of when he was a kid playing with Tonka toys.
Come to think of it, anybody who's puzzled by this could do the same experiment in the living room with a toy truck and a fish scale.
Being a tow truck driver myself, my supervisor always says don't get sucked into too much tow theory just get it done safely. Good on you Casey for removing Rusty. He wanted to supervise, but it was dangerous for him. Excellent video
You may not be an "college educated idiot", but your experience and knowledge on a different level. Excellent job and thanks for sharing your knowledge. Great presentation. You don't have to lift the bus to flip it. It is all a matter of leverage and application of forces you exert onto an object. You never lifted the entire bus off the ground. I would say the vast majority of the weight of the bus remained on the points of contact that was still on the ground. You just applied the right amount of pulling force to motivate an action you desired. Don't need rigging to lift a 80,000LB rig, just the rigging to move an 80,000LB rig. You hit it square on the head, when information is put in print and dissimulated for instructions and capabilities, that information tends to be more conservative. Keep up the awesome content!
Actually, thinking about this further, I think the Badlands winches you have on your pickup would roll the bus over based on the load cell numbers. Your only needing about 2500 pounds.
Hello. I'm over in the UK. I do light recovery and have done for the last 25 years. Just want to say I love watching your videos. Also still learning from them too.
My name is Frank I'm towing out of I did toe out of Washington DC area I was in the towing business for 22 years I am now out of it for over 30 years I thoroughly thoroughly enjoy your movies and your information that you put out the learning I guess when it's in your blood it's in your blood I really do miss it thank you for the great job that you're doing on all your videos I'm now in Florida of course so I missed the snow but I do leave and go back to West Virginia every once in a while thank you I am on patreon I really do enjoy it
Somewhere, someone is checking with their engineers in preparation to edit their training manuals and certification courses. Well done Casey.
No it's the weekend. Will have stroke come Monday, and everyone opens their email.
I'm not so sure OEMs are ever so eager to update their training or manuals even when their foregone conclusions are proven wrong. Even though most everything these days is online and SO easily edited/updated. :(
Kids in bus.... "Yay! Casey's doing another education video! This is the best school ever!!"
Still not official educational video unless he is in PJs and it's 20 outside.
The chassi of the buss go round and round 😊
@@nakazul1 hahaha 😂
Maybe the Genesis should be called a DRU for Detachable Recovery Unit instead?
Don't you mean 'Old World' units
IBM don't have fans. They have air movement devices. They look like fans to me. DRU describes what it does. Genesis sounds biblical.
@@stuartsmith945 I meant as opposed to calling it DTU for Detachable Towing Unit, which it isn’t really.
I am still impressed that the window frame held up to the stress of being pulled on! I never thought about how strong those bus cabins are....makes me feel better about all those trips in busses for my kids.
As far as the physics is concerned, I got a physics degree (a long time ago) and it seems to me you're 100% correct. As you say, in this setup, what matters is where the chain loses contact with the bus; that determines the moment arm of the applied force.
You are correct.
@@marcwert9791you are correct that he is correct that Casey is correct. And I’m correct for agreeing with you that you agree with Barry for agreeing with Casey.
@@BixRivers. and I concur that you all are correct.
To actually debunk what the internet armchair experts are saying wouldn’t the load cells have to be on the the fulcrum (the wheels) to determine what provides the most amout load to stop the vehicle from sliding on the surface…I wholeheartedly agree that the tension on the pull line be actually be the same.
@@John13Edgeyou are correct, the force driving down at the fulcrum is the only way to SEE if the anchor point changes the friction force keeping the wheels from sliding. However, there is absolutely no way that a cable pulling up and away from the bus can impose any extra downward force so it's not really necessary.
With that being said, I would agree that this video (while correct), doesn't disprove the point being made against his reasoning.
I don't see how anyone could think the "long reach around" would pull it into the ground, when there's nothing attached to the ground to pull it into the ground.
My thinking exactly. It's been a loong time since I read physics in school though so I haven't yet figured out how to prove my point, but my gut tells me exactly what you're saying. Unless there's an anchor point in the ground that the chain loops through there should be no way for it pull the bus to the ground.
Yeah, not in the business, but if that side of the chain is pulling 'down', then the other side (over the roof) must be pulling 'up' right? Cancels out, the only thing that matters is the point on the roof where the chain leads off and the height of the boom (just as he says in the video).
From a structural engineer's viewpoint, Casey, you are correct that both frame members are tied together provided that the connection points of the frame and cross-member are adequate for the imposed load. Typically, these connections are more than adequate for the imposed load provided there is no corrosion on the welds, bolts or rivets.
You need to add a point. the bolts and rivets are providing a restriction to a separation force imposed on the frame rail.
My one thought on this is that by hooking to the lower frame rail you are putting the cross members, and welds/fasteners, in tension, and there is extra safety in using the top frame rail to put those members in compression. Seems like, in theory, that should be less chance of deforming the frame. In practice? You and Casey are probably right.
@@theonetruestickmanA M10 bold grade 8.8 can hold about 4300kg, the 1080kg that the winch is pulling ist just laughable small in comparison to that and doesnt matter at all.
@@theonetruestickman In theory most vehicles that have rolled over are totaled and it best to get it out of the road as quick and safely as possible.
Each spot has it merits but it is up to the guy rigging it up to make that decision based on several factors.
@@DragonZer0my thought is that I would pick the frame rail that was least badly damaged.
But I'm not in that business.
I love that you spend money on a sensor, use fuel, and spend time to prove the science. Excellent effort, sir!
Thank you for putting actual facts on the Internet! I hope it doesn't burst into flames! :-) That's absolutely the best way to have the final word in an argument. You were stubborn in a very kind way! I'll go sign up for your patreon now.
The only point of concern regarding the force on the cable is the point, where the pulling cable "leaves" the object. The rest is vectors and they do weird things.
If the window frame has enough structural integrity or not, is another question. But as we saw, it has 😎
On a 1980 something Ford bus it does, I'd be interested to see if a 2020 something bus is as well built. One would hope it is, considering the cargo it carries.
@@bmorg7244 School bus bodies are built to Federal roll-over standards so I would expect a 2020 bus to be as strong or stronger than an '80s bus. Far stouter than an RV of similar size.
tires if inflated and being the main contact would change the vector too
Interesting data. Righting the bus from the top of the top of the window frame took 1000 kg which is 2205 lbs. That means a dozen guys exerting 200 lbs of lift from their legs (not their backs) could flip a school bus over (in theory). A team of Draft horses can pull a sled with 18000 lbs.
Yes, easily. Read the pinned comment to see why!
Once AGAIN..... you are correct !!!!! Ohhh .. a Ex-SPURT ....
EX=A has been
SPURT == a DRIP UNDER PRESSURE
Truly Enjoy You
YANKING OUR CHAIN....haha
Frankly, I'm surprised the roof and windows held up so well. I would have expected the roof to get crushed when you tried righting it. Especially when you didn't seem to have anything that distributed the force.
Thank you making certain that Rusty is safe.
Yes! Pets have a knack for putting themselves in the most dangerous spot.
Mine would have scratched himself a spot and lay down in the shade. Thankfully they steer clear of vehicles and machinery at least. @@larryjohns8823
I took a semester class in Engineering Statics to learn what you taught in 40 minutes. Job well done. :)
The only comment I'd make is that regardless of where you attach on the underside, you are not pulling anything "down" unless the chain passes through an anchor point on the ground.
Any excuse to buy a new tool/toy. Love the videos!
Man its fun watching you work. And i enjoy the education portion also. Ive worked as a tow truck driver and assisted others on recoverys and its amazing to see how everyone handles a recovery differently you have to have a open mind to be creative and have your head on a swivel. Otherwise it could end badly.
Keep up the great work
Casey loves to talk “smack”,but only because he has either thought it through, experiencing it before or uses solid logic.
Daughter to mom - " Daddy's in the yard playing with his trucks again "
Mom to Riley, Dad is doing what he likes to do. Create YT content, teach and illustrate the physics of recovery and address the haters who are wrong!
Poor Rusty probably thought the bus was taking a leak and then wanted its tummy tickled.
I operated Several different Army wreckers, both the 5 ton and Hemmitt wheeled wreckers and the m88 tracked wrecker for 20 years, and you are 100% correct on this. In my experience, (and in the H8 school (wrecker training) and the Army manuals) the only thing that mattered was hooking to something that can handle the stress of the pull. Love your channel!!!
Due to the RUclips algorithms I saw the instruction video yesterday. Having studied physics I thought it was fishy and stopped watching after a few minutes. You are absolutely right. Anybody that passed high school physics should see that the instruction video is not correct!
I have been amazed at how instructional manuals/videos are either poorly edited OR no one ever problem solved! That is why scientific experiments and PhD thesis must pass a rigorous Q &A period of Doctoral Scrutiny! That is how errors are made in manuals and demo videos. Thanks to RUclips channels like Cascade Heavy Rescue, Casey can teach us stuff. Keep up the good work Casey.!
You are not 100% correct... we also have to remember the high school physics even if we passed. :D
@@kenc1800 what do you mean it's not called science anymore it is call fraudci now! Because he said so!
One thing I've discovered in the relatively short time I've been watching Casey's videos is that Casey almost never says anything that he can't back up.
I mean, I'm sure it happens; it happens to everyone, despite what the so-called experts say on the internet believe about themselves or their favorite gurus, but that's what I've observed.
And if you've seen him backing up while towing a full semi, his skills at backing up are unmatched.
Watching his Videos I note that if he is wrong he says so .. on the spot ...
People called him a liar about this and he had to defend himself without naming names of his haters ...
@bobbyt2657 and there is some still saying he's wrong! Smmh
@@George-dy3pt They had better not need his help ...
Armchair Quarterbacks always have to complain about something ... let them come out and do his job ( with their own ZackLift ) ...
Casey, as a PhD structural engineer I agreed with you fully as to attachment point. In my career as a structural engineering researcher in a university research and test lab I found plenty of manufacturers who did not really understand the basic physics of their product. The one that first comes to mind is the manufacturer of accelerometers, not to be named, who really didn't seem to understand the actual direction of gravity as it applied to an accelerometer. In this case the moment arm for the pull is defined as the distance from where the chain first touches the bus at the top to the point about which it rotates down at the tires.
First, I really like the Zacklift! When I was still truckin', a towing company near me had a very similar unit to the Zacklift, but I don't remember what the brand was. It mounted up and released the same, but it had several more cabinets on it. They towed my Shaker Classic a couple of times, and I have to admit, their towing rates by far beat all of the other HD Towing companies around! I asked them once how they could do the same work for nearly half of the price and the owner said, "I have about half of the money invested in that truck than I would have in the equivalent dedicated truck." I was SOLD on the whole idea after that and very early on after you bought the Star Car and you encouraged us to guess what you were planning I immediately said (to myself), "REMOVABLE BED!!! REMOVABLE BED!!!" I love it when great minds think alike!!!!! 🤣
That said, the only thing I can see that they could do to improve the Zacklift is if they were able to build it as a rotator with an unpowered steerable third axle at the drives.
Better yet, a power steered drive axle.
Great explanation Casey.
I love that Rusty was so focused on the bus. He wants to everything thats going on.
3:05 that is shocking the angle that's at
You're absolutely right. The only decisive factor for the pulling force is the distance between the tipping point and the point where the rope leaves the object and the angle of the rope.
Well thought out video the only reason I could see wrapping to the high side frame would be to contain a damaged cab/bodywork
Good you using metric, thats the way to go...😂 I am a mechanical engineer from Sweden, and you are right with the forces
1000 kg is one metric tonne of force, 907.2 kilograms is one US ton or 2000 lbs, and the British ton is 1016 kg or 2240 lbs.
Yes the difference from short ton and long ton or regular "ton"
Facts that confuse many, like a barrel of liquid. Some barrels consists of 28 gallons, 55 gallons or other numbers.
Help me understand this British ton please. 1000kg = 1 cubic meter of water. A short(US) ton = 1 cubic yard of water. How was the British ton derived?
@@lavellefamily2388 _The term derives from tun, denoting a large barrel used in the wine trade. Ton came to mean any large weight, until it was standardized at 20 hundredweight although the total weight could be 2,000, 2,160, 2,240, or 2,400 pounds (from 907.18 to 1088.62 kg) depending on whether the corresponding hundredweight contained 100, 108, 112, or 120 pounds._
Nicely done!!!!!
As you said the pull load point doesn’t change from the top corner of the roof just because you moved the end of the chain around on the other side.
THOSE "EXPERTS" are probably sitting in a recliner in their TIGHTY WHITIES and would argue with a ROCK!!!!
Casey, YOU are doing a great job! I will say you scared me to death when I saw that bus and remember what happened the last time. BE SAFE and just tell those "EXPERTS" to go pound sand.
if the "armchair experts" are responsible for their own laundry then I bet their tighties are not so whity ... 😆
😂😂😂 I'm an engineer and have been for 35 years!
there is no difference where you hook up to the bus on the pulling, see the circumference of the bus as it's would a pulley, that's the same principal from this point on...
Had same engineer tell me to write down whether spinning aerator shafts were spinning East or West , I told him shafts only spin clockwise or anti clockwise.
I told it could-be going east,west, north , south, up or down depending on where he looked at it .
I shall not be out-stubborned!
Love these "receipt videos". Enjoy the weekend!
Casey, you should use the load cell more day to day. Useing it would be cool to see the different numbers!
I was actually surprised the force was as low as it was. Maybe it was the high angle of the boom?
All the weight of that bus is below the floor. Stand a book up on edge and see how easy it is to push over
You are correct. Draw a line between the pivot point (where the tires will hit the ground) and the poll point (where the cable leaves contact with the body). For the lowest pull force, you want the cable to be at 90 degrees to that line which is the effective lever. Because the lever leans away from the wrecker, you want to lift the boom to get that best angle. In other words, Casey did it exactly right.
I understand the physics and geometry involved, I just expected more line force. Only 2400 lbs to tip it back over seems low, but I trust the accuracy of the line scale.
It shocked me as well but a brand new load cell doesn't lie, they come with a calibration certificate so it's trustworthy. @@dbkonkle
You are 100% correct. The second and third lifts were slightly higher because the weight of the additional chain was past your fulcrum. On the last lift, since the second chain was on the bottom of the bus, which was on the near side of the fulcrum. I bet the weight of that chain is right about 10kg.
No matter which rail you hook as you are pulling down the strap under the body is lifting up. The pressure on the tires will have very little change.
I think if you would need to open a can of whoop ass on haters you have 130 old women on your side 😅❤😂😂😂
You're doing pretty good for a 130, ma'am!
Slightly lower force at the first setup was because the wooden blocks weren't there. The one by the fuel tank matters more in this case.
As a physics teacher, it is sad how many don't understand basic physics. Your numbers don't surprise me one bit. In fact, if you had kept the load cell at the same position relative to the edge of the bus roof, where it was in the first pull, it would have read the same thing every time. The extra tension in the load cell for the other pulls was due to the weight of the extra chain. Since the chain wasn't hanging vertically, the extra tension measured is more than the actual weight of the chain. A force vector diagram would demonstrate it easily. Thank you for doing the actual measurement and demonstration. While I don't think you said it directly, you also alluded to why the whole wraparound method doesn't pull the vehicle down to the ground. Again, a simple force diagram would show why that is the case.
Casey, You are a hard working guy. I can't believe how hard you work to prove the Internet Keyboard Experts wrong. You just need to get a water bottle labeled "Hater Tears." God bless you brother. I think you do a great job. I have never seen a video where you were doing anything wrong.
And I'd like to say that very rarely do you find a wrecked anything that size with a happy little convenient dip to be able to slip a chain through. Imagine trying to dig a tunnel for a chain under the side of the bus after it's crashed and plowed a trough 10" deep in a field!
I love how you work to prove how right or wrong you are
That’s what pre picking is for!
Hello Rusty.
Thank You for showing the real strain , and leverage. Good Job as always
. Maximum distance from the attachment point to the pivot point will lengthen the lever requiring less pulling force to rotate the load . That is the principal that applies here. Chain wraps , clapping your hands or wearing purple pants won't change a thing . Good job Casey . Your applied logic and a keen eye for the obvious on display .
Physics/maths proved you were right - but well done for the actual proof (although not got that far in the video, I know you will prove the math)
Another great video showing physics easily understood by everyone. It is quite interesting that you trigger so many folks with your antics. I bet you will sell a lot of 'I Hate Casey LaDelle' t-shirts. Good stuff Casey, from someone who merely enjoys your videos.
Go listen to his interview on the Motorheadz (the boys from Yankum) podcast, he explains the marketing reasons behind that shirt and it's classic Casey. It's a very good interview, for example I now know that Casey drove monster trucks for a few years as his job.
Thank you for calling out any idiots who thought the connection point mattered.
If you wanted to redo the whole experiment for truly identical numbers, probably need to use a fixed chain girdling the whole bus, then just move your winch hook to different spots on that. You are adding and subtracting heavy chain, some of which is free-hanging on the different pulls.
1100kg is 2400pound
So will you try whit the smal wrecker. 😮😮
Yes. The small wrecker, or even the winch on my pickup would do this easily. The top half of this bus weighs very little so it doesn’t take much force at all to stand one back up.
@@CaseyLaDelleI don't believe you, prove it.
In a video...
😂😊
@@CaseyLaDelle I'd like to see that as well, my line of thinking (logic) says the weight on the cell might be higher because of the lower pull points from the little wrecker, and the pickup. I think if I hooked that same way with my little Tacoma and 8k winch, obviously no comparison equipment you bring to the job, all I would accomplish is dragging my truck up to the bus even though as outfitted it weighs in the 4k range (double cab, heavy steel flatbed).
Do it for the science. If I was closer to you, I'd volunteer to throw chains and run a camera for that test.
@@firemaniac Bend is in beautiful high desert country. Take a vacation and see Casey!
@@user-bo9sc9lo9x I agree, it is a beautiful area, I have been through the area years ago.
I am not in a position where I could make the drive, unless I make a sale in that area that I would need to deliver (and I am not going to promote my business on Casey's channel without his permission).
I also am going to give him the respect of not randomly showing up, expecting him to take time out of his busy schedule for a random subscriber intruding on his actual life.
Well, physics say the chain doesn’t care what you do past its latest fulcrum point.
Exactly
Thanks man, was about to write exactly THAT. Not a mechanical engineer, but did three semesters before I quit and that's one of the most basic principles of mechanics. And with a little bit of common sense and experience from manual labor you should be able to figure that out as well.
Stated better than i could have said, only thing I'd add is how strong the point you secure to is (note I'm only 7:30 in lol) like the window post is basically the last fulcrum point, but if it skid and damaged the side, it might tear off, where going around to the rail keeps it secure even if the recovery line tears into the roof
Top corner of the bus roof ..
Casey, good video. As a mechanical engineer for the day job, and a manager of recovery personnel on the military side, my intuition says the same thing you just proved. Now I can say that I've seen it proved, and as always, I'm just looking tor a safe hook that's not going to hurt my guys when they go do a recovery. Per your recommendation, it doesn't matter where the rollover is hooked, just that it's a safe hook.
I think pulling from the frame rail is probably putting more stress on the bus than just hooking from the roof. I'm no tow truck/recovery operator, but It just doesn't make sense to wrap the load to "create a lower stress pull". The only benefit to hooking to the frame rail is it definitely is solid structure.
A man who WILL prove his point!
Casey, you got it all wrong (as usual), here’s the scenario those critical of you had in mind: the bus fell on its side perpendicular to the end of a 20000ft runway (the place where such accidents usually happen), with the bottom facing down the runway. Then you take a 3500ft yankum rope and attach it to a fully loaded 747 (freighter version) at the one end and wrap the other end all around the bus and attach it to the upper frame rail in said fashion. Then you let the 747 take off full blast from where the bus lies. Two things will happen: the bus will be blown a bit back and the rope will unwiggle some. At the point of biggest rope stretch however, the 747 will have reached a speed of approx. 220 knots, which will in turn not only turn, but spin the bus a couple of times in mid air until it (of course) will land on its tyres. The plane then applies full reverse thrust and brakes and comes to a stop before the end of the runway.
If however you want to apply the laws and logic of physics, you’re stuck with your silly ways…
220 knots sounds like a very tangled rope.
@@charliesullivan4304 "We're gonna' need a bigger ... knife!"
The funny thing about all of this, is the only way to create more 'down' force, is to pull down... Any static wrap anywhere will always apply most of its force on the first corner the chain/rope encounters. The only thing pulling down if you're not, is gravity. Like Casey says, its just physics.
I was particularly impressed when you caught and corrected yourself at 29:47. This shows you have a true and deep understanding of the physics.
Indeed, understanding at least the physics of rigging is kinda important for recovery work. If you enjoyed physics at school it comes a lot easier.
🎵🎶Tow Guy the Science Guy🎵🎶
Love the intuitive video!! Love how you didn't specifically call anyone out, such tact!
29:50 Casey gets to the ultimate physics answer. I've watched all the way up to that point, yelling in my head, "Casey, just say this, just say this." I hate Casey LaDelle.
The only thing you got wrong Casey was when you thought you could tell "Rusty" what to do , and you expected him to listen... 🐶🐶🐶
You are absolutely correct saying it doesn't matter where the termination point is on the underside of the bus, that should be obvious to anyone who knows about physics! Where I disagree with you is when you said the downward force doesn't change. It does change, but only by a tiny amount and opposite to what was said by whoever. For example, you were pulling from higher than horizontal to the highest pull point, therefore a slight UPWARDS force will be created taking a tiny fraction of weight off the bus. The opposite downward force would only be true if you pulled from lower than horizontal, then, and then only, would a slight downwards force be created. Either way, the upwards or downwards force would be negligible.
It makes sense as the last point of contact doesn’t change, the only time the force required to move it would change is if the radius from the fulcrum point changes.
There are two forces in action. The weight on the tires and the weight the crane is carrying. Together they add up to the weight of the bus. If the crane tries to lift more than the weight behind the outriggers, it will tip or some other structural limit will be reached.
I love your clear examples. You really show in real life what works and what does not work. Thank you. Take care and God bless.
I cannot believe that ANYONE would think it makes any difference where you terminate your pulling line. What DOES make fifference is the turning moment ie the distance from point of contact of the load on the ground to the point where the rope first meeta the vehicle body. In this case (and most cases) that is the diagonal dimension of the vehicle. Where the hook is attached makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE as you proved. Well done man, great vid.
Love it, “Practical physics with Casey LeDelle” 😊
The outcome should never have been in doubt for anyone with even the most basic understanding of leverage.
I’ve always loved cranes but the Zacklift is now my favourite piece of lifting equipment.
Not knowing current requirements. How had would it be for Casey to set up a tow operator training course for his “off season”? 1970. “There is the truck. You will figure out levers going along to sling this car. After watching one car broke down on side of road you are ready to go solo”
30:20 "You could wrap that stupid chain around 500 times" - then you'd have something like 20000 feet of chain wrapped around the bus, and your bus would probably be flattened by the fifty thousand pounds of chain on top of it, not to mention that the pull force required would probably be more than 20 tonnes.
This is obviously people confusing high side vs low side frame rail when the chain is direct to the frame rail and not wrap around the vehicle. With the chain direct to the high side you would put more moment on the car, thus transferring the vehicles weight to the tires. A low side direct pull you get no momentum because is below the center of gravity so the weight doesn’t transfer and the vehicle just slides. It’s a really important concept, overturning vs sliding based on the winch point vs. the center of gravity.
B.S. in physics here. The only way you are going to get any "downward biting force" from coming all the way around and hooking to any part of the frame is if the chain goes through something that is anchored to the ground.
Your summation towards the end of the video is completely correct. The only two points that matter, are the fulcrum point of the tires and the last location where the chain is in contact with the bus.
1 Kg is equal to 2.2 lbs, so 100Kg is only 220 lbs. That is only a 10% difference in the load, which is basically nothing. I 100% agree with you about the fulcrum and the initial point of contact, creating the angle of the lift, matters way more than the final attachment point. ANY attachment point that creates that diagonal line between the tires and the initial point of contact is going to give you the same load. I was always taught to try and create a 90 degree angle between the tires on the lower side, the boom, and that initial point of contact. Geometry is your friend as much as physics is.
I haven't been on a truck since I was a younger man, but the knowledge is still there.
Fact you willing to prove out your knowledge is a thing I like
Casey, GOOD MOVE! Putting Rusty in your house or office. He is definitely a good family dog and likes to hang with you.
Some of them can't understand that those points do NOT act as a pulley, such as one in a snatchblock.
Your humor is on point, always puts a smile on my face!
1120KG=2460lbs. Amazing how little it takes to right a rolled bus. Great video Casey!