Adrian Rogers Explains Romans 9 Jacob I Loved Esau I Hated
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- A sermon excerpt from the late Pastor Adrian Rogers about Romans 9:13 which says, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. This is often wrongly applied as a prooftext for Calvinism and the doctrine of election. He also explains Romans 9:14-23.
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I normally dislike TV/radio pastors, but I could listen to Pastor Rogers all day!
Dr Adrian Rogers was a great Preacher and Teacher of the Gospel
Me too, I’ve been listening to him over the past few weeks
That's because he speaks "smooth words" he's a liar
@@sgtslaughter21 Yep. Agreed.
@@sgtslaughter21Calvin cult member
It's so clear to understand. How do Calvinsts twist the scripture to come up with such a twisted doctrine is mind boggling. God bless!!
People eat it up too
@@nanag.8523but this guy is lying to protect the lie of a Jewish race and carnal Zionism. God meant what he said. They change hate, but try and keep love. Cannot have it both ways. God meant hate. Don’t believe this man. You must be born again of incorruptible seed to be loved.
Psalm 45:7 (KJV)
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Psalm 58:3 (KJV)
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Romans 9:8 (KJV)
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Galatians 1:15 (KJV)
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace,
Romans 8:8 (KJV)
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
@@nanag.8523it doesn’t mean he despised Esau @4:17 😂. Psalms 73:20 (KJV) As a dream when [one] awaketh; [so], O Lord, when thou awakest, 👉🏽thou shalt despise their image👈🏽.
@@nanag.8523God doesn’t love sinners. Commended his love TOWARDS us….these pastors don’t believe in being BORN AGAIN. Jacob was born again and Esau stayed of the corrupt seed.
@@noneofyourbusiness9635 Malachi 1:1-4
[1]The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
[2]I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[4]Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
Adrian Rogers -one of the best !!!
It’s amazing how simply he put it and yet there are those of you who just don’t get it. Let’s all have a little bit more humility and keep seeking after Christ.
Those who don't get it probably really don't want to get it because it disagrees with their theological system. They have "heroes" of theirs that they don't want to disagree with...
This is national NOT personal
This is service NOT salvation
This is preference NOT despise
Amen!
And Amen!
What are nations made up of?
@@Kooch2004the narcissist
@@troyjoshuasalomon9361 I don’t understand your meaning
This is a fantastic exposition of Romans 9. Thank you for posting this.
This is a remarkable explanation of a chapter in scripture that many people have trouble comprehending.
Remarkable in it's mistake.
Why would you have trouble understanding something so simple? .....because you don't want it to say what it clearly says.
@@bucky91361 The idea that Paul was saying God chooses who will be eternally saved before the foundation of the world is laughable. Read chapter 9-11 as a unit. It's all about Israel.
@@garyleemusic what's laughable is there are still people out there who buy into that hogwash.
@@bucky91361 yet you have offered nothing in response to the content of the video.
@@garyleemusic what would I possibly need to offer? That "National" argument has been tried for a very long time. The text says what is says. We can discuss something if you wish but you might not like what's said. Just saying.....
Great lesson,a pastor/teacher who explains clearly the mighty word of God.
These people who are in attendance and anyone who has the blessing of such teaching is lucky.
You are correct on Him being a great Pastor and Teacher of the Gospel
Book of Obadiah for you and tell me he telling y'all the truth.
Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Praise the Lord for Adrian Rogers and this sermon!!! How clear.
I always loved Adrian Rogers and Love Worth Finding. His voice was so distinct.
Yes, I have heard many a Calvinist express great admiration for Adrian Rogers as a Godly man and gifted preacher. However, he certainly did not agree with Calvinism. I must ask... what is it about Adrian Rogers that always seems to get a positive response and respect from Calvinists while other pastors who do a sermon and touch on the topic of Calvinism or the doctrine of election and oppose it get instantly demonized by Calvinists?
@@faithonfireministries It may be the missing concentration on the issue in his sermons overall. Most of us can overlook a different viewpoint expressed in a sermon if the rest is solid Biblical based preaching. One friend of mine who is staunchly anti-Calvinist still uses a MacArthur Study Bible because of the copious notes and references. The old saying about throwing the baby out with the bathwater holds true when it comes to who I listen to. I don't think it is healthy to feed the desire of separatism down the lines of theological differences among Christians lest we miss the benefits of their study. I've learned much from Ray Comfort, Frank Turek, WL Craig, RZIM, Ken Ham , Kent Hovind dealing with apologetics and evangelism. I would differ with them greatly in areas of atonement, sovereignty, election, free will etc.., but I haven't anathematized them 😀. I'm listening to Jeff Durbin now but may finish the day out with Ravenhill (one of Paul Washers favorites).
@@faithonfireministries Quite obviously Adrian ROgers wears suits of similar style and quality to John MAcArthur. That's why calvinists respect Rogers.
I came out of Calvinism 20 years ago and have never looked back. As soon as I studied the context of Romans 9-11 and Ephesians 1 Calvinism suddenly made no sense to me and I could no longer see it anywhere in scripture.
Praise the Lord! It is amazing how reading the Bible for oneself and paying attention to the proper context does lead people out of Calvinism. As I heard it once simply said, context kills Calvinism.
Romans nine says what it says, it takes some special people to read it, saying that they are in context and then destroy the text and render it unreadable. Roman's 9: God Chose some and those he did not choose he past over.
@@alonzomccloud4530 You are exactly right. God chose what would define the Israel of the promise, and it wasn’t merely being a biological descendant of Abraham. Jacob wasn’t chosen for salvation and Esau reprobated. Romans 9 is not about determinism to salvation or to damnation. God’s election in the Old Testament context was not to salvation, but to a purpose, to carry forward with the promise made to Abraham. That’s why He chose Isaac not Ishmael. Did that mean Isaac automatically went to heaven and Ishmael went to hell? God even blessed Ishmael and his mother. God chose Jacob and not Esau. The phrase, Jacob I loved and Esau I hated is a covenantal term implying preference, not salvation vs damnation. Otherwise, you need to say that Jesus told people that they had to love Him and despise and damn their own parents, which would contradict the command to honor them and violate the command to love others. Besides that, the context of those words about Jacob and Esau was that they were spoken in Malachi in reference to the nations of Israel and Edom, not about the individual brothers. God had even told Rebecca that two nations were in her womb. The point Paul was making was not that God chose some for salvation and others for damnation. It was that God has the sovereign right to determine how Israel would be defined, not by mere biology but by His choosing, and later it would be defined by those of faith in Christ. God determined the seed that would lead to THE Seed, Jesus. And when Jesus came, He had the sovereign right to then determine that the seed would be defined by those in Christ, Jews and Gentiles, by faith. Paul even begins Romans 9 by saying that he is speaking by inspiration of the Holy Spirit when he says that he wishes he could be cut off for the sake of unbelieving Israel. The Spirit of God bore witness in Paul that the desire was for Israel to be saved. Sorry, my friend…I spent years in Calvinism studying only a text without understanding its Old Testament context. I even defended it, much like you are. So to your point that God chose some and passed over others you are correct, but it wasn’t to salvation or damnation but rather to the purpose of carrying forward with the promise of a seed, and not all descendants of Abraham were part of carrying forward with that promise. That’s what Paul is defending since Jews of his day might accuse God of not being faithful to His word to them as Jews, since so many are not believing while many Gentiles are and Paul’s point is that simple ancestry is not an automatic ticket. Unbelieving Israel was being treated just as Pharaoh was…judicially hardened in the unbelief they already had to bring about the deliverance of others, including Gentiles. God had the sovereign right to do that. However, Paul would even later express that these hardened Israelites were not beyond hope. They could be grafted in, too, by the same faith that is saving others….faith in Jesus. There was still hope for those in unbelief. And when Paul says in Roman’s 9 that God was patient toward vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order to make the riches of His glory known for vessels of mercy, Paul once referred to himself as one of those objects of wrath. His point was that God was patient with ALL sinners who deserved wrath so that He could show mercy to them. God did not predestine some for hell to show how wonderful salvation was for the elect. He declared ALL to be sinners, covenantal Jews and pagan Gentiles because biology is of no benefit. Only by God’s grace though faith in Christ can anyone be saved. He will conclude this in chapter 11 saying God consigned ALL to disobedience so that he might have mercy on ALL. You have to completely ignore the rich Old Testament context in order to pull Calvinism out of this hat. I can no longer see Calvinism in it, or any other passage….but I suppose I was predestined to leave Calvinism behind, anyway.
@@soccerman1717 well said!
Wow! That's true BIBLE study. If i didn't view it i would struggle to be precise on the correct interpretation. Yeah, God has raised true preachers. Amen
Amen Amen Amen 🙏
Bible study needs to go to the origin of a word not how you feel....
◄ Romans 9:13 ►
Romans 9 - Click for Chapter
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it has been written
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Ton
Τὸν :
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Art-AMS2384 [e]
Iakōb
Ἰακὼβ
Jacob
N-AMS25 [e]
ēgapēsa
ἠγάπησα ,
I loved
V-AIA-1S3588 [e]
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τὸν
-
Art-AMS1161 [e]
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but
Conj2269 [e]
Ēsau
Ἠσαῦ
Esau
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emisēsa
ἐμίσησα .
I hated
V-AIA-1S
Loved to listen to pastor Roger's preaching and teaching for many years God bless him.
It's clear once we stop using Narcigesis.
I'm glad you made it through the storm;
I've looked for you everyday. 🙏❤
Oh, how sweet. Thanks so much! It will be a few more days before I get the next video up I think. Hopefully that will be the one about the gnostic gospel of election as indicated in the Calvinist's Westminster Confession of Faith. God bless you!
@@faithonfireministries I'm excited about your next video!! I'm praising God for hiding you and your family under His wing during Ivan. We have a good good Father! 💜😊
@@faithonfireministries God bless you brother. Take your time and do what you need to do, but I can't wait! 😊❤
@Dean A. - Good to find you here. I agree....
My Prayers are with you Brian and I hope that you and your family are safe
Thanks very much! Yes, we are safe and made it through Hurricane Ian just fine, thank God. Sadly, many did not in South Florida.
Obadiah 1:10
“For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.”
“For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.”
Obadiah 1:10 KJV
Obadiah 1 begins verse 1 saying this, "The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning *Edom* ; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle." This chapter is about Edom attacking Israel and it contains references to Jacob and Esau but clearly meaning Israel and Edom because Jacob and Esau are long since dead at this time.
So, as Pastor Adrian Rogers said, this is not about the person of Jacob and Esau, but the nations of Israel and Edom which came from Jacob and Esau. And being "cut off" is not about salvation of an individual but a judgement against the nation of Edom who would be eventually completely destroyed by the Roman Empire. However, if one particular Edomite had repented and trusted in God, just like Abraham, that belief would have been credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15: 6) even though the judgement against the nation would have still occurred.
@@faithonfireministries Genesis 25:23 The Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger."
Lv your channel you’re a blessing
@@faithonfireministries Calvinist take “hate” so literal what do they say about Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:27 Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
@@faithonfireministries Genesis 25:23 The Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger."
Perhaps some of us are unaware that so-called white people can't accept the fact that nonBlack people have nothing to with our family history. White people are going into slavery for the slavery they have inflicted upon the children of the Most High Yah. Our Father only loves Israel. See psalm 147.
Malachi 1:4
“Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.”
The question is, "why did God say that to Edom?" The answer is in the book of Obadiah.
Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Thank you Pastor Rodgers. On long drives (which I can't do anymore), I was often blessed to be able to find Pastor Rodgers on the radio while searching the dial. What a magnificent use of those long hours on the road. He was, and still is, one of my very favorite preachers of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Adrian Rogers did not abide in the doctrine of Christ. He taught several heresies denying the Lord. 2 Pet. 2:1
Listen to his Adrians pride. It’s so easy to see he’s angry that anybody would disagree with him.
@@paulbortolazzo2831 Youre literally an uninformed, completely ignorant reviler and nothing else.
Absolutely about a nation.
I looked through the scriptures and I did not find the older individual serving the younger individual. But the serving was in the national level
What are nations made up of?
Had the pleasure to know this man. He was the absolute real deal!!!
He's a LIAR!!
@@sgtslaughter21why do you say this just intrested never heard hum before
@@andresullivan6473 Beginning with the fact that he reads directly from the Bible "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated" Then proceeds to teach the congregation that God actually doesn't hate Esau even though it's clearly stated and repeated in the scriptures then he states In the video and reiterates "God loves sinners..God LOVES SINNERS" When very clearly Ecclesiasticus 12:6 says "For the most High HATEH SINNERS, and will repay vengeance unto the ungodly, and keepeth them against the mighty day of their punishment"
It's one thing to be mistaken but those are blatant lies
@@andresullivan6473 I questioned him he did a copy and paste of some bologna when I proved his entire thesis incorrect he said he doesn't want to talk with me anymore 🤭🤭He likes unlearned ppl that just sit there and absorb his lies
@@sgtslaughter21
Jesus told us to hate our father and mother, and brother and sister, and our own life. So, was he telling us to break one of the commandments, or could hate have a different meaning then what you think? Also, if Jesus doesn't love sinners, then no one would get saved, because we are all sinners, every single one of us, has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus said,xhe came to seek and to save that which is lost. Paul said Jesus came into the world to save sinners, Paul also said, that God commanded his love towards us, and that WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, christ died for us. That means, that while we were still sinners, God loved us, to send his Sin to die a horrible death for sinners. Not for none sinners. We would have Paul, if God didn't live sinners, he is the chiefest of the sinners. He is the worst of the worst.
1 Timothy 1:15
King James Version
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Luke 14:26
King James Version
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
It specifically says that one is prepared for mercy and that one is prepared for Destruction doesn't say anything about service
Thank you
The elder shall SERVE the younger. Again, nationally, not individually.
@@heathheglar7898what are nations made up of?
I give the world unto the hands of the wicked , Esau
◄ Romans 9:13 ►
Romans 9 - Click for Chapter
13 2531 [e]
13 kathōs
13 καθὼς*
13 As
13 Conj1125 [e]
gegraptai
γέγραπται
it has been written
V-RIM/P-3S3588 [e]
Ton
Τὸν :
-
Art-AMS2384 [e]
Iakōb
Ἰακὼβ
Jacob
N-AMS25 [e]
ēgapēsa
ἠγάπησα ,
I loved
V-AIA-1S3588 [e]
ton
τὸν
-
Art-AMS1161 [e]
de
δὲ
but
Conj2269 [e]
Ēsau
Ἠσαῦ
Esau
N-AMS3404 [e]
emisēsa
ἐμίσησα .
I hated
V-AIA-1S
This dude is scared of the truth....
This man has the spirit❤
Revelation 13:9-10
[9]If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[10]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
That’s right!
Praise the Lord for Adrian!
Hallelujah. Hallelujah! Thank you, God, for allowing me to find this video. I knew in due time you would explain this to me, but I did not trust you. God, I'm sorry. You are worthy of praise and honor, O God.
Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for HE FOUND NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE, though he sought it carefully with tears.”
This guy do not read, at all....
He's the kind of person that would have a Christmas gift Easter gift and the Valentine's Day card for the Messiah when he comes back
Who was he rejected by though, was it God, or was it his father Issac? Let's look at the verse before it. The inherited blessing was his birthright. He sought it with tears from Issac, his father, but his father denied him that blessing, and gave it to Issac.
Hebrews 12 KJB
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
@@zaiyan2003
What are you talking about.
You missed the whole concept that he found no place of repentance....
Read Malachi the first chapter chapter
I noticed that everyone who believes in Greek Roman and African holidays, always have a problem with what the Bible says and they try to add to it their idolatry and their doctrine...
So strong, so good, so important… So God! Praise God for warrior Bible teachers like Pastor Adrian Rogers! Thank you so much for sharing.
Dr Rogers was a great Preacher and Teacher of the Gospel
He's a LIAR
Obadiah. Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Malachi 1:1-5
[1]The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
[2]I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[4]Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
[5]And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.
@@nanag.8523The entire book of Obadiah is their worst nightmare.. I'd LOVE to see him try to slither his way around that
@@sgtslaughter21 he tried on someone else comment. As if it's in the past and not a future prophecy.
That passage was regarding election.....that God's choice isnt based on works but on His own unmerited grace.
It's election to service and leadership; not eternal destiny after death.
So blessed by this message. Thank you for posting it!
2 Esdras 15:21
“Like as they do yet this day unto my chosen, so will I do also, and recompense in their bosom. Thus saith the Lord God;”
Not sure how selecting one entire nation to be separated from God is 'not personal' for every individual in that nation. In context it's not merely about 'serving', it's about verse 7 who are the "children of God", his "offspring". And about his mercy not who will 'serve' the other or whom he 'prefers'. Verse 27 it IS about salvation 'only a remnant will be SAVED', and verse 30 the Gentiles 'have obtained a righteousness that is by faith'. This is about who are saved, who are righteous, who are God's people and who are not.
This is one the best explanation about this passage and this true how exposed the lair of Calvinism thanks God for that
Great teaching, I rarely hear this taught properly as 90% of the churches near me are calvinists.
Nice and simple and clear , love it!
Ecclesiasticus 12:6 For the most High hateth sinners, and will repay vengeance unto the ungodly, and keepeth them against the mighty day of their punishment.
If God hates sinners, then no one would be able to get saved, because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That means you are a sinner, amd since God hates you, you have no hope, because God hates sinners.
Also, what Bible are you using, because I can't find that in my bible. This is what I have.
Ecclesiastes 12
King James Version
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
First of all the angel appeared to Jacob and Esau 's mother saying that there would be a struggle within her womb and there would be a prophecy, that the first shall be last and the last shall be first. The interpretation is twisted, because when Esau went to the fields and worked and then came back and asked Jacob for something to eat because he felt as though he was famished and dying. Jacob sinned against his brother, by asking him for his Birthright for a bowl of food. And then later on Jacob and his conniving mother plotted against Esau once again and tricked Isaac, their blind dying husband and father into thinking Jacob was Esau, and stole Esau's blessings from Isaac. Esau did not sin.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say God or the angel of God told Jacob and his mother to do these things, it was only prophesized that it would happen. After Jacob and his mother sinned against Esau, then Esau became livid and wanted to kill his brother. which is a natural response.
So jacob had to go to a foreign land where he met a man named laban and his daughters, and ask laban, if he could marry one of his daughters and labam said yes, if you would work for me for a certain amount of years. and when those years came to pass, jacob wanted to marry laban's younger daughter, but the man offered his older daughter to Jacob, he then tricked Jacob so he would have to work another term of years to marry the youngest daughter, and even when those years was up Jacob's father-in-law still said for jacob to stay and work, when Jacob wanted to leave. Jacob was deceived.
this was God's lesson to Jacob about deception and lies and theft on his brother Esau. Esau proved he was the better man by forgiving Jacob in the end. Esau was a man of God, his father's first and favorite.
Jacob's whole family were thieves and Liars. God even had to fight with Jacob which eventually ended up with God breaking Jacob's hip because he was disobedient and sinful ways. His own wives were pagan and thieves, when one was accused of stealing a family idol.
Praise the creator, not the the so called holy men.
May God bless you all.
The hitties was before Esau and Jacob the hitties was Eurasians👏👏
Excellent video. ❤️
I'm always amazed at the outcome of the understanding of this passage by many people. Being elect in any category does not guarantee anyone a loss. It gives one a blessing they didn't deserve.
Can we be so ignorant to think if 10 people are running for president that the 9 who are not elected were never able to BE elected? Or if 1 child is chosen to hand out cookies to a group of 20 children that only the girl handing them out can partake of them? Elect means chosen. Elect does not mean, or even suggest, that people are rejected. It is inclusive, not exclusive.
Obadiah makes it clear.
Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.Malachi 1:1-5
[1]The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
[2]I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[4]Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
[5]And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.
Wow, when I saw this one I thought you're gonna show us some screwy thing Rogers said. Lol
Anyhow, I'm glad it wasn't. Honestly though, this is the only time I can recall where a preacher taught this correctly. I can't tell you how many times I've explained this to people. And Calvinists? It's like preaching to a wall. It's like they don't want the truth.
Wow!!! thank you so much Brian!!!
I really needed this!
Adrian Rogers was one of my favorite bible teachers. I miss him so much. He had more Godly character than White or MacArthur could even buy.
EVERYONE loved Adrian Roger's. He had NO Enemies. WOE!
Luke 6:26a
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you!
@@ManassehJones ummm lots of people did not love Adrian Rodgers. You obviously never heard of him.
@@Axisearth Who didn't love him? Could be only 2 types of people. 1 that hated anything with any appearance of God. 1 that are the sons of God and hate wolves in sheeps clothing.
Obviously those that love lies as false converts loved Adrian, just as I did for decades.
@@ManassehJones I know alot of people who didn't said he was a legalistic Billy Graham.
@@Axisearth So who do you get taught doctrine from?
Adrian knocked it out of the Park
Thank you I have struggled to understand this in a way that he makes clear!🙏❤️
Excellent explanation of Romans 9
Calvinist make a mess of it.
But why God prefer Jacob over Esau???
Why God didnt prefer Esau over Jacob,,???
Because He knew that Esau would trade his entire inheritance for a bowl of soup. His inheritance meaning the blessings that the Israelites got, the right to be the chosen nation. Esau was a representation of someone who chooses worldly things over the inheritance given by Christ
The Bible says “before the twins were born and before they did anything good or bad…so what they did had nothing to do with God’s election towards service …which is an example of salvation. The Bible talks about believers as being “predestined” and “chosen” before the world began. It’s literally an example of salvation.
Amen, if you study the doctrine of election, witch of course is in the bible, you will find it not talking about individual salvation. That is the massive error of the calvinist.
Amen, I love the in-depth explanation.
He skipped over so much of it it was not in-depth at all. It specifically says somewhere created for mercy and some for Destruction doesn't say anything about service
2 Esdras 6:9 KJV For Esau is the end of the world, and Jacob is the beginning of it that followeth.
That’s right!
One good Adrian Roger's sermon can undo a thousand bad Johnny Mac sermons
well said!
This guy is a liar.
Obadiah 1:10
[10]For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
Isaiah 14:1-7
[1]For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
[2]And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
[3]And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
[4]That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
[5]The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
[6]He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
[7]The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Jeremiah 18 = Romans 9. The Potter makes vessels of honor from those that do His will, otherwise, vessels of dishonor. God always teaches IF we do this He will do that. Rev 2 & 3 IF we endure until the end, we will be with Him eternally
Enoch 50:1-5
[1]In those days shall the earth deliver up from her womb, and hell deliver up from hers, that which it has received; and destruction shall restore that which it owes
[2]He shall select the righteous and holy from among them; for the day of their salvation has approached
[3]And in those days shall the Elect One sit upon his throne, while every secret of intellectual wisdom shall proceed from his mouth; for the Lord of spirits has gifted and glorified him
[4]In those days the mountains shall skip like rams, and the hills shall leap like young sheep satiated with milk; and all the righteous shall become angels in heaven
[5]Their countenance shall be bright with joy; for in those days shall the Elect One be exalted The earth shall rejoice; the righteous shall inhabit it, and the elect possess it
First, I have always loved Dr Adrian Rogers. But, here Dr Rogers must continue the text. Verse 15 is clearly individualistic - mercy / compassion on whomever I will says God. And v.16 says it (election) does not depend on HIM (not the nation) who will or who runs, but on God who shows mercy. The example is Pharaoh in verse 17 - an individual. Verse 18 continues this on an individual basis. Given this fact, Paul asks the question in v.19 (and this question only makes sense in the light of election of individuals). Verse 19 is nonsense in the Arminian view. Then vv.22-23 is the crunch line: Verse 22 - vessels of wrath (HE) prepared (passive voice) (BEFOREHAND) for destruction. There is no HE and BEFOREHAND in v.22. Verse 23 - vessels of mercy HE prepared (active voice) BEFOREHAND for glory. Here is a HE and a BEFOREHAND. With the saved, God is the active party and it is His work. With the lost, God is passive and He simply leaves the unbeliever in the path he has chosen. In Scripture, when people are saved, God gets all the glory for the election, effectual call, and salvation of such people. When the lost are condemned, they are condemned for their unbelief, and never for God choosing them for destruction. Now, does this sit well with Arminians and Calvinist-haters? No. This is why verse 19's question so perfectly fit your view. But we are not here to please people and their fallen sentiments of what is right and wrong. God's Word is crystal clear. There is no way out of John 6:44 "NO ONE can come to Me unless the Father draws him." And Acts 13:48 "as many as had been appointed (the cause) to eternal life, believed (the result). The Greek word order and cause are clear. No way out of it. I have seen all manner of fancy explanations, but I am not interested in text twisting. I thank God for election. This is the only way any sinner could ever be saved. And if God does not choose all to salvation, then it is His prerogative as He is good and does good - Ps 119:68. And He will even be glorified by the judgment of the lost in eternal hell. And if you balk at this - go read verse 19 -23 over and over again. Don't be the clay who asks God why He does what He does. This is my final post on Faith on Fire. I cannot disagree more comprehensively with your anti-Calvinistic and John MacArthur attacks. I have been following Dr John now for 33 years and have studies at Masters as well, and a more godly man and caring Shepherd I do not know and his Bible knowledge and Greek skills are exceptional - after more than 60 year of fulltime study. Maybe you must upskill yourself quite substantially before you go on this crusade.
I'm glad you say you won't be posting anymore here, because I'm growing tired of having to read comments from people gushing all over John MacArthur who is one of the worst wolves in sheep's clothing in our day. You spent 33 years being indoctrinated by him and went to Masters for studies and you think that is a badge of honor. You have done yourself a great disservice all those years and you don't even realize it. It is also very typical, and in line with the Synod of Dort and Westminster Confession of Faith, to claim adherence to your specific systemic religion is necessary for true salvation. You wrote that nobody is saved outside of election. In other words, you belong to a cult and you think that is the only way to God, when the Bible is clear that Jesus is the only way available to whosoever believes.
I recommend you take at least a year off from Calvinistic influence and study the Word of God alone putting every one of your Calvinistic doctrines to the test of Scripture. They will begin to crumble. Test all of your preconceptions against the full scope of the Bible and draw close to God through His Word, not MacArthur's words. If you continue and trust that you are of the elect and therefore saved, I fear for your eternal soul, because that is not the way to God or heaven. Jesus Christ is the only way and we are saved in accordance to Titus 3: 5, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy *he saved us, by the washing of regeneration* , and renewing of the Holy Ghost." There is your definition of being "saved" which includes regeneration. Now, go find every verse in the New Testament about salvation that says "saves" or "saved" and put in the definition "by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" and you will see that belief precedes regeneration every single time. There is zero examples in the Bible in which faith or belief precede regeneration. That fact alone is the dagger in the heart of Calvinism and election.
If you study this and still come away disagreeing with this fact, then you have made an unwise choice. However, your choice could be either to accept and agree with the clear Word of God about salvation or to continue to defend a false religious belief system. It's really that simple.
Good bye!
Absolutely my brother.. could not have said it better myself! Glory to our Sovereign God! To Him only be the glory.
@@faithonfireministries for someone who purports to be of the faith, you sure do spew alot of hate and disdain for your brethen who hold to the TRUTH of reformed theology. Will we not all worship God together for all eternity? Arminians and calvanist alike.
@@wesselsmith172 What verse(s) are you using that God has elected those "who would be saved"? And what verse(s) that say God has chosen who goes to hell.
Excellent! Thank you for posting, I am adding these notes to my Bible margin!
Well take it out because he's wrong
Thanks for this video I was taught that God some to be saved and some destined for hell , I used to listen to mac arthur, I don't listen to him anymore, who teaches that In Roman's 9
God calls sinners to repentance, he hates sinners but has become the remedy to our condition. He has broken the power of sin, now we can walk in his power but we must stay rooted in him the true vine or we will not overcome the world, the flesh and the devil. Get in Jesus and stay in Jesus don’t listen to the devil you know he’s lying. Always a great teaching from Pastor A.D.❤❤❤
Brilliant!
Amen, bro! Great sermon. You seem like a genuienly good guy.
AMEN, AND I SAY AMEN. THIS PASTOR IS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT.
The Pastor was being dishonest about the definition of hate in the Bible. If you read further in Malachi 1:4 it says The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.” You can’t get around the definition of INDIGNATION = ANGER, IRE, RAGE, FURY, INDIGNATION, WRATH mean an intense emotional state induced by displeasure.
@@gusmacker919exactly.
Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
@@nanag.8523 You do know who is Israel is right ?? And who’s the descendant of Esau and why the pastor fixed his mouth to tell that lie about the def of hate ??
@@gusmacker919 I do. It's the ones that are scattered and oppressed throughout the four corners of the earth. The ones most hated by all the other nations. The ones who've been through the most atrocities. The ones who fit the curses in Deuteronomy 28.
It sure isn't those people in that land.
This is the best explanation to this passage..i led a lesson on predestination, iam intrigued that this is almost exactly how i tackled this passage😅..iam happy to see the same explanation also hear..thank you pastor
Love Adrian Rogers!
But Adrian didn't love you. He lied to you in this sermon.
@@ManassehJones In which part?
@@OkieAllDay He said "hate" means "less preferred." That's a lie. The Greek word means utterly despised and abhorred to the point of persecution.
@@ManassehJones So do you think God commands us to literally hate our father and mother and sons and daughters (Matthew 10:37)?
@@OkieAllDay If they hate Truth. Yes
It takes many words to explain that the Word doesn't actually mean what it says.
Romans 9 is soteriological and not about service as the good Pastor is teaching, The example of Pharoah, with the uses of soteriological terms like "mercy" and "hardens", "prepared for destruction" and "prepared for glory" sheds light on "Jacob have I loved and Esau I Hated". These terms are related to Personal Salvation
And verse 24 where the text says "even us whom He called not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles" further illustrates that Romans 9 is about personal Salvation,
In the Bible often the simplest reading of the text is the correct interpretation. We must never read our own fallen understandings of GOD's Holy Sovereign Character into the text. ALL GOD's Acts are Righteous because He does it and it flows from His Will, There is no independent standard of Right and Wrong above GOD's Will.
Free will people have to figure out someway to take God out of it so they can be free from God meddling in their choices.
Hardening makes no sense with the assertion of total inability. "If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart." The elect will listen and respond irresistibly. The non elect are as far away and as unable as can be. So verses about hardening have no place in Calvinistic philosophy.
@@williammarinelli2363 I think they mean total inability to believe in God not total inability to drive your car or believe in Zeus
Amen
@@williammarinelli2363 There is natural hardness of heart into which all men are born into and there is further hardening when men indulge their wicked lusts fully and habitually against the Natural Law which GOD writes in hearts. . Romans 1 is a good illustration of this. And there is judicial hardening when GOD hardens such wicked obstinate sinners even further until they are ripe for Judgement. Total Inability does not negate hardening
Clearly understanding ❤
god hates esau bro
What about book of Obadiah?
The Book of Obadiah
1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom;…
2 “Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: THOU ART GREATLY DESPISED.”
Do you believe we are in the age of grace? I do. Scripture says in John 3: 17, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." Scripture also says that God commended His love towards us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. That is not talking about just the Elect, but everyone. Compare that with 1 John 2: 2, He is a propitiation for our sins, not just ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Scripture describes grace as a gift of God that one only receives through faith in Jesus Christ, so sadly for those who don't believe, they in fact reject the gift. When a person rejects Christ they also reject all the blessings in heavenly places that were predestined for them by God's will which they in fact rejected by rejecting Christ. Therefore, God does not choose a person to be predestined to hell but God will give people what they chose, and if they don't want Christ they in fact get what they chose, no Christ and there is only one eternal place left for that which is hell and the lake of fire.
There is proof in the bible in other places, that the word" hated" was used in a different way than we use it today. In the story of Jacob's 2 wives, God gives Leah blessing in childbirth because he felt sorry for her because she was " hated" by Jacob. Now we know that Jacob did not hate Leah in the way that we use the word. She had many children after all from Jacob. She was hated in the way of preference. Rachel was favored by Jacob. Leah was not hated she was just not preferred over the other wife. God felt sorry for her and gave her fertility to comfort her. That fertility won't work if Jacob never came to her. Jacob didn't hate her in the way we use the word.
you can twist it flip it how ever you want the bible is our history NOT the history of easu as it is written by Israelites for Israelites
@@donaldcoleman514 yes, but my point is that Jacob was preferred for God's plan over Esau because Esau did not respect or even show interest in the covenant made with his grandfather. Esau gave his birthright to Jacob over hunger pangs...he married Caininite women who were pagans. These things went against him as a patriarch for the nation God was building. Remember the whole reason for the nation was to build a genetically pure one for the birth of Jesus who would die for all nations!!! Including Esau. Jacob was preferred and Esau was not hated in the way that we think of the word today.
God hates sin is what the Bible says. Are you saying that God just has a preference that we don't sin? I think not. Give me the Hebrew word and the meaning differences. Explain it in more detail, but don't just make a statement without any Biblical support. That's not exegesis it's eisegesis.
@@bk1bennett you need to read my first comment in regards to the word hate ,that was taken directly from the Bible. The comment talking about the " hated" wife of Jacob.
From Strong's Concordance:
sane: to hate
Original Word: שָׂנֵא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sane
Phonetic Spelling: (saw-nay')
Definition: to hate (NAS Exhaustive Concordance)
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to hate
NASB Translation
detest (1), enemy (3), enmity (1), foes (1), hate (78), hated (28), hated her intensely (1), hates (19), hating (2), hatred (1), turned against (1), turns against (2), unloved (7).
I don't see "preferred in there anywhere" I don't have an axe to grind here other than to challenge lazy exegesis ... @@karens3805
beautiful just beautiful
"The elder shall serve the younger." Calvinism's reword of this verse is, "the elder is elected to be damned and the younger is elected to be saved." Calvinism is supported by Scripture that has been edited. In Genesis, Esau never serves Jacob. When Esau is near, Jacob tends to flee in fear. Jacob calls Esau, "my lord" while referring to himself, in addressing Esau, as "thy servant." Jacob offers his wives and children to Esau to be servants of Esau, but Esau declines with, "I have enough." Hence: this verse is talking about the two nations in the womb identified to Rebecca. This verse is not talking about the two mentioned individuals in the 2nd half of Genesis.
@@MariusVanWoerden Was I supposed to read all that Synod stuff? Consider this to the extent you wish - we who consider Calvinism to be false doctrine that is against Scripture will most likely disregard quotations from Calvin or Dort dorks to be unauthoritative opinion and will read them critically, questioning assumptions and noting any and every observed instance of "the text doesn't explicitly say that..."
One who doesn’t like Dr. Rogers is working with half a brain
Enoch 24:8-11
[8]He answered me, saying, That mountain which thou beholdest, the extent of whose head resembles the seat of the Lord, will be the seat on which shall sit the holy and great Lord of glory, the everlasting King, when he shall come and descend to visit the earth with goodness
[9]And that tree of an agreeable smell, not one of carnal odour, 1 there shall be no power to touch, until the period of the great judgment When all shall be punished and consumed for ever, this shall be bestowed on the righteous and humble The fruit of this tree shall be given to the elect For towards the north life shall be planted in the holy place, towards the habitation of the everlasting King
[10]Then shall they greatly rejoice and exult in the Holy One The sweet odour shall enter into their bones; and they shall live a long life on the earth, as thy forefathers have lived; neither in their days shall sorrow, distress, trouble, and punishment afflict them
[11]And I blessed the Lord of glory, the everlasting King, because He has prepared this tree for the saints, formed it, and declared that He would give it to them
This is coherent with Jeremiah 1:5. God's election is normally a concept that refers to mission, not to soteriology.
Isaiah 45:3-4
[3]And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
[4]For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 65:9
[9]And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isaiah 65:9,22-25
[9]And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
[22]They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
[23]They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
[24]And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
[25]The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Wisdom of Solomon 3:6-10
[6]As gold in the furnace hath he tried them, and received them as a burnt offering.
[7]And in the time of their visitation they shall shine, and run to and fro like sparks among the stubble.
[8]They shall judge the nations, and have dominion over the people, and their Lord shall reign for ever.
[9]They that put their trust in him shall understand the truth: and such as be faithful in love shall abide with him: for grace and mercy is to his saints, and he hath care for his elect.
[10]But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.
Ecclesiasticus 46:1
[1]Jesus the son a Nave was valiant in the wars, and was the successor of Moses in prophecies, who according to his name was made great for the saving of the elect of God, and taking vengeance of the enemies that rose up against them, that he might set Israel in their inheritance.
Ecclesiasticus 47:22
[22]But the Lord will never leave off his mercy, neither shall any of his works perish, neither will he abolish the posterity of his elect, and the seed of him that loveth him he will not take away: wherefore he gave a remnant unto Jacob, and out of him a root unto David.
Enoch 24:8-11
[8]He answered me, saying, That mountain which thou beholdest, the extent of whose head resembles the seat of the Lord, will be the seat on which shall sit the holy and great Lord of glory, the everlasting King, when he shall come and descend to visit the earth with goodness
[9]And that tree of an agreeable smell, not one of carnal odour, 1 there shall be no power to touch, until the period of the great judgment When all shall be punished and consumed for ever, this shall be bestowed on the righteous and humble The fruit of this tree shall be given to the elect For towards the north life shall be planted in the holy place, towards the habitation of the everlasting King
[10]Then shall they greatly rejoice and exult in the Holy One The sweet odour shall enter into their bones; and they shall live a long life on the earth, as thy forefathers have lived; neither in their days shall sorrow, distress, trouble, and punishment afflict them
[11]And I blessed the Lord of glory, the everlasting King, because He has prepared this tree for the saints, formed it, and declared that He would give it to them
Great Explanation of the Scripture
He lied. Read Obadiah. Malachi 1:1-5
[1]The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
[2]I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[4]Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
[5]And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
WOW! Augustine just turned over in his grave!
This man just stood in front all those people and blatantly lies on TMH God..and then repeated it again "God Loves Sinners..God LOVES SINNERS" Which is in direct contradiction with the Holy scriptures Ecclesiastics 12:6 For THE MOST HIGH HATETH SINNERS, and will repay vengeance unto the ungodly, and keepeth them against the mighty day of their punishment
Scripture says in Romans 5: 8, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." What you are missing is that we live in the age of grace thanks to the love of God towards sinners, as in John 3:16,17 which says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
So, in the Old Testament you will read that God is angry at or hates the wicked sinners. This is true, but it is also true at the same time that God's love for humanity as a whole is greater than God's hatred of it, and that is why God has provided a way of salvation for each of us out of that state of sinful wickedness, in order that we may avoid God's wrath, provided we turn to Christ and trust in Him alone for salvation.
@@faithonfireministries Your interpretation of John 3:16 is severely flawed also it contradicts John 2:15 Love NOT the world for if any man loves the world the love of the father is NOT in him... furthermore you're assuming the "us" mentioned refers to all the inhabitants of the earth which is ridiculous especially since ..TMH God NEVER pronounced love for ANYBODY outside of his chosen people Israel let alone "humanity"..Read Romans 9 ...also Isaiah 40:15 theres no getting around it..and BTW please refrain from adding to or taking away from the word..Christ says in Matthew 15:24 I have NOT come BUT into the lost sheep of the house of Israel ..those are red letters
@@faithonfireministries can you provide even a single scripture that states "God loves humanity"?
You must be kidding me. I already did provide you Scriptural evidence. God is love. This is basic Christianity. It appears you just want to reject it for your distorted and false view of God. The Greek word for love is "agape" in John 3: 16 and Romans 5: 8, and plenty of places elsewhere in Scripture. Greek has different words that describe a different form of love, although they all get rendered into English as just the one same word, Love. But the Greek definition offers some clarity. Eros means passionate sexual love, where we get the word erotic. Philia means brotherly love or love between family members. Agape specifically means the Divine Love of God for all of mankind.
@@faithonfireministries notice you completely ignored John 2:15 as well as Matthew15:24 I'll address any and every scripture you can bring head on I won't run nor deflect away from the point as you have sir... you're focused on the word "love" instead of the word "world" what is the greek word for "love" mentioned in John 3:16? and FTR I'll never ever reject scripture if there's anything I'll concede to it's the word ..so again where does God say he loves mankind? Or humanity?The question was never does God love? Furthermore Proverbs 11:1 states that "a false balance is an abomination but a just weight is his delight" so TMH God is NOT only all love sir.. you're explanations do not harmonize with the volume of the book and TMH is NOT the author of confusion
Very clear and precise
very clear god still hates esau LOL
I find it murky and imprecise, and I don't want to disagree with him, but a lot of what he says is not in the text. Nor does all that he says agree with what I see elsewhere in Scripture.
Pastor Rogers is 100% correct! This is at the heart of what Reformed theology teaches that God is sovereign. Reformed theology (also called Calvinism) does not teach that God predestins some to heaven and some to hell. Not at all! God predestines his elect to hear and respond to the gospel message and to be saved. Those whom he has not predestined are left to face the judgment. Let me ask you, if God knows that something is true, or say, when someone is saved, when does he know it?
Brilliant sermon! Great explanation of a difficult passage of scripture! Very helpful to me personally. So glad I found this.
He lied to you. Read Obadiah. Malachi 1:1-5
[1]The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
[2]I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[4]Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
[5]And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.
Isaiah 45:17
[17]But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
When I saw this, I was waiting for you to interject something duragatory to Adrien. I'm glad that presupposition was incorrect.
The subject in Roman's 9 is Salvation! For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That Calleth. Even Us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles. Nations are made up of individuals! Roman's 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Hated- to detest, to persecute, to love less. God is no respector of persons who call on Him in Truth! However, to say that God just loved Esau a little less than Jacob is much injustice to The Word Of God! Esau was a child of the flesh, not a child of Promise! Any teaching that errors from the Simplicity Of The Doctrine Of Christ in the fulfilled Promise of Him reconciling All Things Unto Himself are pulling away from The Doctrine Of Christ! The preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery of the Gospel is The Doctrine Of Christ brought forth in the finished work of Christ for His Church which He had purchased with His Own Blood, in whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named! Jesus came to separate the wheat from the tares! Jesus came to save Us from our enemies and deliver Us from All that hate Us! Jesus shall stand True To His Promise! Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard Him? And have been taught by Him? As "The Truth " is "In Jesus ".
This guy just threw out a couple of verses in the Bible.
God loves The sinner?
Ecclesiasticus 12:6
For the most High hateth sinners, and will repay vengeance unto the ungodly, and keepeth them against the mighty day of their punishment.
John 9:31
Now we known that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Proverbs 28:9 KJV.
So, according to what you are clearly arguing for, let me see if I understand you. You believe God hates every sinner but if a sinner turns from sins and obeys God's law and doeth God's will, only then God hears that man's prayers. Is that a correct understanding of how you are quoting and interpreting those Bible verses?
@@faithonfireministries
Yes, you must turn away from your sins in order for the most high to hear your prayers.
Read through the New Testament. He hears our prayers now, in the new covenant (since the resurrection), because of Jesus. We are righteous before God now. The blood of Jesus does that. Not a law abiding sinless lifestyle that existed under the old covenant (well it actually didn’t exist they couldn’t keep the Law). Great teaching on this comes out of the people at Charis Bible college. Check out Andrew Wommack and Barry Bennet they have free teaching videos all over RUclips. Blessings. Diane
Another that teaches this with a clear understanding of new covenant : Joseph Prince
No ones saved , he that endure to the end the same shall be saved we're not going to know who's saved until Christ returns !!!!!!
But we can know that we are saved though, John tells us, that we can know.
John 1:12
King James Version
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
1 John 5:13-15
King James Version
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
So insanely clear. Calvinism saddens me as it seems to show a rather incomplete understanding of the scripture. The other scriptures Calvinist’s go to all have such clear explanations like this as well to demonstrate the universal salvation opportunity for humanity.
Another note - our reformed brothers and sisters have much great insight to share, I just believe they missed the mark on this one. I’m sure I’ve missed it in areas as well. One body. One church.
There was never a universal opportunity for salvation of humanity in the time of Abraham and Israel and neither is there one today. Think about it and realise that world is not North America. Many are living in countries where the opportunities to hear the Gospel are sometimes little to none. People do not have equal opportunity when it comes to hearing the Gospel.
amen!😃🤍👍
Paul says, "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring..." Paul is showing us that this is not national, that those in Israel are not jews but those chosen by God, as he continues, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion... beforehand for glory- he has prepared even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" Israel is those God has saved, as Paul quotes Isaiah, "only a remnant of them will be saved." This chapter is part of a larger teaching from Paul on salvation, who is saved, and how this is the last generation of Jews, but God has kept a remnant, which jncludes Gentiles.
Adrian Roger's is preaching through a lens of anti-predestination instead of what Paul was teaching. Not a terrible or heretical sermon, just not quite correct unfortunately.
No. What Paul is teaching on is why salvation is available to Gentiles, which was always the plan. God chose Jacob to fulfill the election of the nation of Israel, the purpose of which is to be the line of the messiah who will bless all the families of the earth and also reclaim the nations to himself.
Jacob is not saved and esau is not damned. Jacob is simply chosen in the womb for the more honorable purpose.
Dueteronomy 32:8-9
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he )divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9 But the Lord's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.
When Paul refers to membership in Israel not being physical, he means it's according to the promise which is also to say "by faith".
@@brucegolston6507 that's what I said, lol, God's chosen. I did not say Jacob was saved, but it, as you said, was proof of God choosing in his will, not our own.
However, still doesn't dismiss the fact that Jews, as defined in Judaism, cannot exist today, that Israel is now those chosen in Christ, which includes all ethnicities.
@@velociray God choosing for a job, not for salvation was the distinction I was making.
@@brucegolston6507 Ah. That wasn't Paul's argument. Paul equates that God choosing for his will in purpose to keeping a remnant for salvation, then uses the analogy of a potter and vessels, purpose in will for his glory and our grace. I had to read through it a couple of times, but that's what he said, "and in this way, all of Israel will be saved."
show me in scripture where the most high has a remnant with the gentiles
Idk.....hate means hate. Thou should not kill means thou should not kill.
Well said! 🙌🏽
Yes, this is the way. The doctrines of grace have got it wrong.
Jesus said if we don't "hate" our Mother and Father, Daughter, Son, etc., we can not be His disciples. Calvinists, you really got to change your doctrine.
Malachi 1:2, 3, also talks about God’s choice between the twins, and why. This is clearly what Romans 9 is about.
GOD made one lump to honor him & one lump to dishonor him Jacob is that lump he honors & esua is that lump that he dishonors period !!!!!!!
Wrong application! keep reading Romans. You isolated a text in chapter 9 and forgot to get the context. Paul provides throughout Romans. The vessels of dishonor Paul is talking about are the Gentiles, viewed that way by the chosen ones, Jews. But in Romans 10 the Gospel of Christ which saves is available to everyone who believes, Jew and Gentile alike.
Even in the first chapter, Romans 1, Paul establishes that fact in verse 16 about the Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew and then to the Greek.
In Romans 9 Paul also says that God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, and Calvinists distort this to suggest it means God has predestined a few for mercy and chosen all others for wrath that the Gospel will not apply to at all. Nope, Romans 11 gives the answer in verses 30-32. God will have "mercy upon all." That is the good news of the Gospel. Read 1 John 2: 2, John 3: 16, Romans 5: 8.
Great explanation! I think Esau / Jacob is also a picture of the 2 covenants, the superiority of the New Covenant to the Old. The fact that the New Covenant is superior and would supersede the old. That salvation would be based on Faith and not on works of the law. Calvinists misinterpret Rom 9 and try to expand it to apply to individuals being arbitrarily "chosen" for salvation, which is a grave error.
The new isn't new to us the chosen ones ecclesiastes 1:9 that which has been is what will be that which done is what will be done and there is nothing new under the sun christ taught from old testament
No man salvation has always been the same. If fact calvanists believe the opposite what you're saying.
but what did he say about vessels of mercy and destruction?
Romans 9 has everything to do with Salvation. He skipped verses 1-8. If you start from verse 1 you will see he was greatly mistaken. God bless everyone
Not to mention skipping chapter 8 and the entire golden chain of redemption
IT IS RELATIVE!! THE LOVE and CHOOSING of the one, in comparison on the one who is not chosen, relatively speaking is an emotion of hate. CAIN AND ABLE. There is the line of the Messiah, and are LOVED!, the unchosen are not "loved" in light of His love for His chosen
so good
I love that the Bible does not teach Calvinism. It is a mere religious drawer and box people put God into.
However, I'd like to know, asking sincerely, because I have been troubled by this:
If God says to hate evil, is he not talking about a genuine disgust towards sin and unrighteousness rather than 'preferring the one over the other'? Doesn't that mean that there are different meanings to the word 'hate'? I understand the meaning the preacher laid out about how God was choosing a nation over the other in the context of Esau and Jacob. But I don't understand how he is using the rest of his explanation to further build his argument (hating his relatives and dear ones to follow Jesus) as to me this doesn't seem consistent with all other references in the bible about the dichotomy of love/hate... Does anybody understand where I'm coming from and can help out here? This argument creates sort of a cognitive dissonance in me I would like to dissolve.