Does Caramelization Effect Liquid Culture Growth?
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2023
- This video breaks down a simple question of debate - whether or not LC (Liquid Culture) Is inhibited by caramelization of sugars during sterilization - Enjoy and MUSHLOVE
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One of, if not the most informative mycology channels on YT. Every expirement is done presicely and backed by actual results. Not just regurgitating the same stuff we hear from everyone else.
thanks for watching and following along!! I hope you learned as much as I did from this one 😀
this was straight up scientific method. legend gary as always
I too have caramelised my LC by mistake, there was no noticeable difference except for a less clear solution, we sterilise our LC for 25 minutes at 15psi. It works for us!!!
Great experiment . Thanks for sharing this. I almost threw my LC out recently when I saw the particulates,but decided to inoculate as an experiment too. And then here's your timely video, giving me this good news. Thanks Gary .
beautiful experiment bro, thank you very much for your time !
Nice work, real science 🎉
Great experiment...but a more interesting one would be with different medias like dextrose, fructose, corn syrup, honey, and malt extract just to name a few, and mix in some peptone to make it interesting. Thanks again for your content.....LC videos are major views.
I just ordered some peptone to do just this experiment.
Thanks for the info I was looking for this information because I had this exact problem not on a large scale like yourself, although I am trying to maximize my lions mane production so all the help I can get is appreciated. I’d really like to know how to make a tincture from different fungi do you have a video of that?
Perfect timing. I was about to throw out a batch of LC because of caramelization, I'm definitely keeping it!
Such an important experiment for any grower, glad someone is talking the time to do it!
I do mine for fifteen mins in my PC. But i only do one or two jars at a time. When it's empty like that you don't need to leave it in for all that long i have found. Also i fill my water line to match almost match the water level inside the jars and that helps a lot.
Agreed, I'v always figured since caramelization is just the burt sugars and protiens and the myco consumes both then its going to consume it reguardless of it's form, but i did note that some strains/species do really well in caramelized lc and some dont...bottem line..da mushys WILL grow in a caramelized LC period...by the way @Felix Merz..I copy and pasted ur "caramelization" cuz I was'nt sure how to spell it..😆🤣😅
a sample size of "one" is not a truly scientific experiment.
I PC my nutrient solutions for 35 to 45 minutes @15psi using clear, high fructose corn syrup.
i never get solid caramelization, only a colour change.
during my experiments with caramelization using honey, lme or dextrose I've found no concernable differences if caramelization happens or not in the 40 strains I have tested with a sample size of 6 with caramelization & 1 without caramelization of each of the 40 strains.
we are all aware unless you are using 2 monokayorons to make your master culture you are getting many different genetics in a single culture which will lead to highly erratic experiment results.
even using 2 monokayorons to make your master culture can lead to erratic experiment results because not every culture grows at the same rate in or on the same medium.
You're right, but I think the bottom line for this experiment is to prove whether caramelisation is a problem at all. We saw growth so at least the caramelised solution is still nutrient. Qualitative differences will always be there, sure, and it would be better to do more cultures with every strain. But we can also see strain vs strain if there is a correlation
@@BarackObamaJedi this is why i said:
"I've found no concernable differences if caramelization happens or not"
Master Gary the one who taught me about turbidity!!! Always top notch mush love ❤️
Keep dropping these bangers🍄 this information makes my brain
tingle🧠⚡️I think it but you do it❤.
have you tried to use your grain water for cultures and agar? I collected a bit of popcorn grain water from making spawn bags to run some side be side tests with 4% corn syrup solution.
As always great content Gary!!!
Are your syringe filters 25mm? I have some 11mm, same size as the SHIPs. Thanks!! Mush ❤
Don't forget, just like canning food....the more volume (bigger jars) are gonna require more time which could lead to more caramelization. Thanks, great video Gary.
thanks for this information
Cubes love it
I'm really liking the malt extract liquid culture I made it's faster than Karo ime
I've been curious about this, since it's used for plates. What ratio do you use? Is it just as clear?
Thanks for doing this. I've caramelized accidentally and thought about throwing them out but gave them a shot anyways and they worked fine. The mycology community has a ton of these "an engine needs backpressure" type of old-wives tales and this is one of them.
BTW, how do you attach the luer-lock filters to the lids? I've been using the filter stickers - one on each side - for LC and not really a fan. I haven't had problems but the luer-locks look like a more appropriate solution.
I just found the right size hole and squeezed them in 👍 I have used the rvc silicone in the past but it’s not necessary with plastic on plastic if you figure out the right sizes
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Thank you. I'll try it out.
Tha camera did you dirty brother.😅😅😅 looking a lil chunky in this vid
What's the word on the morchella grow?
I love you Gary! Mush love!
Hey Gary! what is that pad you have in front of your flowhood @ 7:00?
it’s part of a patreon series Im making, it was custom made Im trying to find a manufacturer someone bought the only one off etsy then I got ghosted from the company who printed the original
My last dme lc I made I used allot of dme. It carmelized really bad. It was full of sediment. Within two weeks a point jar was half full of mycelium, it is chowing down on the sediment and fast. I always heard that allot of sediment would allow growth, but it didn't it grew really fast
The sediment is not caramelization. When you boil malt, it causes a protein break, just as milk does when you boil it. You really don't need to use so much.
Hi, im a beghinner grower i have problem whit liquid colture transparency , i see the acacia honey is more more clear of the bee honey and i wonder if is possible use plant honey and not bee honey , maybe is too contam? i can try filter normal honey liquid colture before sterilize it? Thk alot for sharing ur experience and the wonderfoul lab (sorry for my eng) . I try sob whit rise syrup and was a total fail of turbidity so now im scared make experiment
I’ve heard of people using liquid corn sugar, liquid cane sugar, dissolved white sugar, really anything sweet in theory will work, but some may work better then others but it may ( keyword may) be species dependent or just mushroom dependent, any sugar will work but mushroom do what they want and you may have to experiment for your genetics, good luck and happy fun experience
Hey Garry. Great Video as always!
Why don't you use Corn Syrup?
Some people like it because the LC turns out very clear (if it doesn't caramelize).
Oh and btw, which jars are those smaller ones that im assuming are pints?
They were from walmart I like doing smaller runs first in those
Have you tried using glucose syrup?
Hello how do you store the liquid culture jars ?
you can store them at room temp outside of direct sunlight or refrigerate them (some are cold sensitive though be aware)
I am absolute beginner, this is my first LC but: I can use a snickers as "external stiring bar" because my Lion's Mane swims after it. Every other day it asks for KFC or some McD's. Fried chiccan AND caramelized topping for the icecream. Maybe brown rice instead of french fries - because it wants to remain lean. To still fit in a trunk. But no diet coke, yeah?!
Are you sure you're not growing cubensis?
@@Smerdzy yes. It is hard to confuse Lion`s Mane with a normal looking mushroom. No disrespect.
What is that heat coil thing you're using to sterilize your scalpel between cultures?
it’s an induction coil check out this vid ruclips.net/video/fmC38jxPbQc/видео.html
lc recipe question-Should i use karo and MEA or is this too much sugar?
Sure can... Works great. I use a quart jar, 60g karo, 1/64 tsp of lme, 1/64 tsp peptone, and 800ml of distilled water, in an instapot 15 minutes under pressure and your good. So using some mea would be very similar... Good luck in your new adventures 😁.
Hey I'm having some trouble with contams I've only been doing this for a couple months now can I get a little advice from you?
Clean more and clean better. When you think everything is clean enough? Clean some more.
You need to also be working in clean air, and make sure your processing stuff long enuff that it's sterile.
Do you prefer the Nylon syringe filter vs ptfe? I thought ptfe would be better because it is hydrophobic not really allowing moisture to permeate the membrane.
I don't think you cam PC nylon. They are like half the price. Might be worth trying.
i accidentally carmalized my lc a few months ago but innoculated it anyway. its doin just fine. particulates make it look a little dirty but theres a lot of mycelium in the jar.
I did that with a carrot juice LC and there's ALOT of sediment. Idk how much of it is from the gypsum but some of it is for sure caramelized carrot juice, but there is mycelium growing in it.
Mines growing fine on agar too. So it’s clean just a bit sandy. Never thought to use carrot juice. Seems like whatever is handy usually works just fine.
thanks for this experiment, I was just getting ready to make some LC but using an instant pot. From what I see on YT they are saying 30 min is enough time. If anyone knows if that is correct Please reply. thanks
I wouldn’t use an instapot they do not get to 15psi.
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Gary this is not meant to doubt you but is it because it's the pressure that actually does the sterilization or is it the temperature? Just curious and thanks for replying.
@@ranjanty The more pressure= higher temperature... so its the temperature that does the sterilizing, as long as its given enough time. Pressure itself has no sterilizing effect...it just raises the temperature of water above it's boiling point.
True you can go longer on time with a lower pressure to get the same end results....there is a chart out there.
@@john-smith. thanks John for the feedback, I appreciate it.
I would wonder if lack of clarity is more from protein breaking out of solution like happens with malt extract. I might try pre-boiling the mixture and then filter. This is what I have been doing with my malt extract before adding agar to get nice clear plates, and I could see it working here too.
yes i was preboiling my malt LC and filtering it before claving. but still sometimes you get secondary precipitation when you don't reach high enough temperature at the first boiling. I've found this procedure too tedious so i switched to a dextrose based LC and even got better growth from it.
I like this idea I may start veering away from fructose and try dextrose 👍😎
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi go for it. my dextrose LC is working wonders and has the added benefit of being crystal clear and not tinted.
Yes this method works as long as it is able to slowly cool in the pc, to fast of temperature change will result in further coagulation of the protein's.
@@toswift4ya I do tend to leave everything in the PC to cool with the weight on; but pretty sure I get most of the coagulation out of the way pre-PC. I often do batches of 250mL for 10 plates, and will boil 300 mL of water down to under 200, then add a bit of cold water, filter, add agar and final water, then PC. The post-boil cooling is pretty rapid at those volumes.
Which syringe filters you using?
.22 micron
i dont kno if any of you have seen yeast/fungi colonies that grow on top of mashes,, but they can form pretty cool stuff.
that geeky sterilizer still flexin i see
What kind of blender do you use!
Sıvı karışımı neyle yapıyorsunuz ve kaç günde hazır oluyor
This is a good one I think there's plenty more myths to bust in mycology to
Gary looking a little rich there buddy! Or it's the camera angle.
Affect ;-; love your videos tho
😂
Dont use fructose (in general imo, plenty alternatives).. I think can also help to avoid mixing too much nitrogen compounds like amino acids (altho temp should be too low for Maillard reactions) and ofc malt extract can have its own problems, i think prob because some of the compounds present are just *barely soluble.
In general in chem, very tiny amounts of impurity can discolor a product... In which case it would not be likely to have much effect.
Also bit more richness in chemical variety might keep more different enzymes busy.
what do u recommend to use?
🪄
very nice