Thank you!!! I started using a filter a while ago and despite my meticulous puckprep, suddenly all my shots had a consistency i was not able to achieve before. But i always wondered whether to water the filter or not. I tried a wet filter a few times, but disliked the taste and decided against it. It is great to have someone like you in the community who walks the walk and not only relies on anecdotal evidence, but tries to take a more scientific but still interesting and enjoyable approach. Keep up your great work!
I use paper filters with ultra precision baskets for "tea like" turbo shots from very light roasts. They help with extraction efficiency and brightness of the taste but also stop the basket from clogging.
Definitely hit the nail on the head regarding whether or not higher extraction is better. For some coffees, it works wonders for increasing body and boldness of flavour notes to cut through milk for espresso blended coffees or for fruity notes in lighter coffees, but for others, the end result is way too overwhelming to be called pleasant. I think one espresso theory we should hear more about is purposefully dialling down extraction for coffees. I had a Brazilian medium dark coffee on my bar at one point and all of the drinks made with it were waay too overwhelming with excessive bitterness no matter how it was dialled in on my Pullman, so eventually, I got my tapered Lelit tapered basket out, and the resulting espresso was perfectly balanced with great body and dark chocolate flavours. The point is we should look and the roast level and flavour notes to have a basket for certain coffees.
I found stock baskets are fine these days depending on your tastes. The tapered type stock ones do seem to make it easier to get good results and less apparent channeling. With light roasts I think they do give less flavor clarity but better body in general. So many people may prefer sticking with the stock basket. My ECM stock basket was my fav for a while. Just was tired of inconsistent shots I felt the stock basket gave a better success rate but with a lower max potential for light roasts. With a VST basket it seemed like every shot was more of a gamble.
I started using paper filters to eliminate cafestol after reading that caffeine can increase LDL levels. However, I have since read that this research is ongoing and whether it is significant is open to debate. I started making my own filters from Chemex filters with a 2" punch for a 58mm portafilter. That worked well. However, the paper filter did not quite cover the entire basket bottom. I then tried the Weber brand filters which are made for a 58mm and got a better result (more consistent, bit cleaner taste). Not significant, but better. I am not sure if there was channeling along the edge with my homemade filters (user error, punch not quite 2"??) or whether it is the fact the Weber filters have a rough side (placed toward the bottom) and a smooth side. Filters were rinsed. I called the supplier and they said always rinse. I emailed Weber and they said dry. I am now using dry filters and haven't noticed a difference.
Which basket are you using? Most baskets 58mm would be too large for a bottom paper filter, Webers and the other high extracting baskets with holes right close to the edge is the exception. But those 58mm papers don't fit on a flat walled Pullman or Decent brand precision basket, not perfectly anyway. 56mm works for those. Good brothers coffee has a variety of filters and a guide for which sizes work with different baskets.
Agreed with most of the stuff you said, except for the rinsing part. Rinsing the filter paper or spraying some water on it, at the very least, makes the paper stick to the bottom and prevents the grounds from going below the filter paper before or during tamping.
After a number of times testing back and forth on different beans, I've definitely settled on paper filter turbo shots. Sometimes over a frozen metal ball, but sometimes not depending on the coffee. I've gone fully modern!
I’d say this was a 12 hour day, just in an effort to try and get the shots to be in a reasonable range of yield and time. I had to toss or not use data from probably an additional 30-40 shots that I missed the numbers on. Honestly these are videos that are fun to do, but so time and resource intensive.
Logically presented, as always. I hope your "new" lifestyle" is working well for you. The quality of your vids remains high, the length all that's needed. Many thanks.
I use paper two ways: to deal with one machine that produces an uneven spray; and to reduce cafestol. As others note, more research is needed on latter. I was surprised a few years ago by increased LDL and had to look at the potential role of my twice a day habit.
For sure a filter on top can help with distribution, I feel like the metal screen is a little more efficient though. And I’ve heard about the cholesterol side for sure, but yeah, as you say there is a little more research that needs to be done on that, but if it helps it helps.
Awesome vid! I've always loved your videos about the ins and outs of different espresso variables and this one's a banger! I always rinse my paper but it's just to make it stick to the basket because I'm paranoid about it shifting during WDT. Robert McKeon Aloe (espressofun) and Jonathan Gagne also have great writeups about the effects of paper filters with more data and experimentation for the nerds who are very interested!
@@JordanLipsFitness_ i sometimes do and sometimes don't but none of us are exactly normal here :D i guess by "rinse" though i mean i just spritz it with my RDT bottle lol
I found these "Filter Paper for Cafelat Robot Espresso Maker" from Prima Coffee Equipment Co. They are just a little bit bigger than the bottom of my VST 22G basket. After wetting the filter it will conform the the bottom of the basket. Although I have never done any "with & without testing" it seems that the ability to grind finer seems like a "good thing".
great vid. I find in addition to all the reasons you listed, I use filters to sometimes make up for the fact that I don't yet have a great espresso grinder, just the one that comes with the breville barista. It really helps when I get as fine as its conical burrs will let me.
Great video as always. I definitely prefer the paper filter with my high flow baskets. It helps with the cleaning as these high flow baskets clog so easily compared to the old precision baskets.
I use the Wacaco Picopresso and I find adding paper filters help my shot more balance, increase in taste and texture! Haven’t tried it with any commercial machine or even the Flair though.
FWIW - I bought the filter papers for my VST-15g basket and tried using them for 1 week (placed on bottom of the basket, dry paper, as per James Hoffmann). For my taste - there is no better or worse here, the paper-filtered double espresso tastes and looks a bit different to standard double espresso. For me it paper filter is not worth the extra cost and extra effort. I think some people may prefer the filtered taste so its worth a try, on individual basis. I plan to stick to the basket alone, no paper filter. Peace. Next thing to try are new fancy $100-200 baskets?
What if the filter is positioned at the top? Would this alter the result, or would the outcome remain unchanged? If it retains the same outcome as when the filter is at the bottom, I believe it's a good idea to place the filter at the top since it keeps the brew head cleaner.
After transitioning to a Unibasket, I started using paper filters since it's way easier to get the puck out after pulling a shot when using them. If I don't put a paper filter in the bottom, it's always a struggle in my case
Only use paper filters at the top (in conjunction with mesh screens) -- I use both sworks baskets and like to keep the grouphead as clean as possible for as long as possible.
Rinsing makes a huge difference if your workflow involves flipping the portarilter to transfer the grounds from the dosing cup. (E.g. Niche Zero style workflow). It keeps the paper filter nicely centered through the flip.
Never tasted my (Chemex) filters. Don’t use them on the bottom. I found that it reduced body and mouthfeel/oils, which I like in my shots. I place them on the puck. Mitigated channeling, at least in my experience. I now use a 200micron contact screen on top of the filter, with a 50micron puck screen on top of that. I’ve had zero channelling, and the puck looks like it’s sculpted. Precise edges, and uniform colour. Nice balanced shots. The filter and contact screen keep the puck screen clean (can be a pain to clean), and the shower screen remains spotless.
Thanks for the video. I wonder if adding a filter on top and bottom will have a definite and objective improvement on a certain scenario ie. if on does not have the best grinder or espresso machine. Is using filters better than nothing if you can't upgrade the equipment? (Also let's assume you are doing your best in puck preparation.)
Great video as always! I always use filters, but instead of rinsing them I spray them with RDT :) I like the way it changes my extractions and I am big on interesting flavor notes in the cups so I like the clarity.
I've been using paper filters for two to three months now I've had nothing but good results. In addition to that it also helps with the odd channelling that that would occur from time to time.
I find with milk base coffees it makes the coffee too light in flavour and you seem to loose those deeper flavours, I find its much better with Espresso but it depends on the blend I use. I really liked your video on it because you are right it does come down to your taste in the end!
Very nice video as usual, thank you! Really appreciate how many measurements you take in order to have statistically significant differences to report. It might be interesting to compare paper filters vs. the new high-extraction baskets (or the combination of the two).
Thanks for your unbiased and thorough analysis of paper filters on extracted espresso. That was a lot of work! Personally, I am always looking for ways to simplify and speed up the process of making espresso, to not make the process more complicated that it already is. The use of paper filters takes one in the opposite direction (especially if the filters require manual trimming for every filter, but regardless, even if you could buy them, it adds time and material). As my process already produces excellent espresso, my own conclusion is I'd never try adding a step that a) is more time-consuming, b) more expensive and c) seems to me to take away flavor components I value. I can see where others might prefer using paper filters, as the result may favor their palates.
You’re welcome, and thanks for watching. These kinds of videos are definitely time and resource heavy so I’m always glad to see when people can see that and appreciate it. And yes, I 100 percent get you. More things to buy, use, and steps to make a shot isn’t always the answer as ‘better’ is a very personal thing. Of course it’s fun to explore if you want to do that, but in the end if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
To be fair to the effort behind this video, the paper filter in the bottom of the basket seems like a reasonable method to address shortcomings of the grinder and the basket itself. Having dealt with these issues myself and spent six months trying to find the correct IMS precision basket for my RokGC, I appreciate the plight of those who are not able to address problems with their grinder or basket ( for whatever reason that may be). It would seem elitist of me (or anyone) not to acknowledge that. Having said all of the above, I agree that adding a filter is a step in the wrong direction. Once I got the right basket and a good grinder, all the issues mentioned in the comments were cured. And the coffees are great!
I'm not getting consistent results, but the really good shots did provide more clarity than without. I've decided it's not really something so beneficial that I would add it to my workflow. it was a fun experiment.
Interesting with the wet vs dry filter, sounds like dry might be a good balance. I actually was doing my first shot dry and then rinsing and re-using it for the 2nd shot which was wet, I'm not sure I noticed a difference, but I'm usually mixing things up, trying a different coffee or grinder etc but I'll keep an eye on if I notice the difference now with a wet vs dry filter.
Thank you for the video, and clear summary. I have not tried it as cutting down the filters seemed too much of a "faff". It does seem that I should give it a go for a couple of times after getting grind size dialled in. Take care, All
By reducing oils during extraction, paper filters are great at drastically reducing things like cafestol (which affects your body’s ability to regulate cholesterol).
Report from this armchair barista. 🙂I will generally use filters when pulling light roasts with my 40mm Flair. I find it helps with overall shot balance, though with light roasts I'm already using a 1:3 ratio with a long-bloom infusion. This is just a sample of one, of course, and could be due to my personal tastes or due to some effect of the narrow and deep portafilter.
As I understand, cause I tried only once in the past with paper filter, using one can help taking the decision if one wants/needs a unimodal or a bimodal grinder
A very good video, thank you. Can you please offer any guidance what kind of filter paper to use and how to make these filters at home? I have 2 baskets - a VST-15gr and VST-18gr and getting the right paper and right size filter seems very tricky. Thank you, keep it up, please.
I only use paper filters on to instead of a puck screen. Cleaning a puck screen is time consuming and I'm never satisfied with the results. The filters sometimes stick to the shower screen but a quick purge solves that and my shower screen stays clean.
Wow, great info but think I have been doing it wrong. I put the filter on top of the basket. Looks like you put it on the bottom of the basket. Does it make a difference?
Both can make differences. Essentially up top it may help even out the spread of water and avoid jets digging into and causing channeling in your puck. If your machine has a decent screen and/or preinfusion or flow control it may not be necessary. At the bottom the benefits are broader, as I mentioned it can increase the clarity and brightness, as well as extraction. But it can also remove some texture and balance, but it’s all a bit different based on your set up, coffee, etc.
Faster shots means also a lower pressure, right? If that's correct, how does it explain a higher extraction rate when adding the paper filter, as we know that the paper prevents many particles to pass through it? In addition, as we add a paper on top of the puck - does it affect the pressure? My experience shows it evens the extraction , making the repeating shots more consistent.
Does papper filter on top works just the same as metalic puck screen? When I pull multiple shots it’s just frustrating to rinse the screen all the time. I’ll rather use papper filter on top instead.
Have you tried putting the filter on top? There are some who argue this placement is better. Would be interested to see a comparison to no filter and the filter on the bottom.
That's a very different thing. Not better or worse, but it's not going to give you a higher extraction like this shows. A lot of people use a reusable metal puck screen on top, but you can also use paper. Supposedly works as a secondary shower screen but I mainly just use them to keep my espresso machines brew group cleaner which it definitely does (paper should work too I think). The other benefit of a puck screen may be working as a secondary tamp if you tamped insufficiently, one person I sold a puck screen to said his channeling issues went away, maybe his machine had really poor water distribution and that helped or he was tamping too weakly not sure. But I don't think I noticed a difference with a top puck screen for taste.
Great video. Just curious if you've tried using a filter on top? I use a filter but I've also started using one on top as well instead of using one of those metal pucks.
Thanks Don! And yeah, I have. It’s become something that generally fell off for me as it didn’t seem to make much if any difference after I upgraded my shower screen, and began using flow profiling to reduce channeling. At this point the benefit overall would just be a cleaner group. Which is a nice thing, but wasn’t enough to go full filter sandwich mode for me.
@@Sprometheus great point! Having a cheaper machine (Breville Barista Max), at a standart 9bar and inconsistent shower screen, I experienced more consistent pulls having a paper filter on top as well
I stopped using filters, on the bottom i found the espresso smoother bur flavours somewhat muted, and on the top - often get an uneven extraction. So naked puck - occasionally using a mesh if feeling frivolous
I use to use a paper filter on the top but moved to a fine mesh puck screen to mitigate puck craking. This may give a thicker pour as a result of less head space.
I'm a total newb. would it be helpful for manual lever which I am told have trouble with light roasts--not sure why? also would it help filter out the coffee chemicals that are said to raise cholesterol?
During my tests, the wet paper filter was prone to make my WDT more difficult (worse). In some shots, the paper moved from the bottom position when starting a deep WDT. When the paper was dry, I never experienced that inconvenience.
@@BensCoffeeRants That was my initial concept before trying to do deep wdt over a wet paper :) And also, when wet, It looks like the extraction starts when the coffee touch the hot basket with the wet paper. For me, the taste is better with a dry paper.
Hey Brandon, I usually trim the filters using the metal filter screen I have, then trim just a little more off of that to fit it into the bottom of the basket as most baskets taper a bit towards the bottom. No need to be extremely accurate, just enough to make sure you cover all the holes. And the demitasse I used in the video are from odakahome.com
I was using both chemex paper filters and mesh puck screen on my Expobar E61 with increased flow, cleaner head and tighter pucks. Fast forward to this past week, I upgraded to the Linea Micra, and had to get a 3Bomber screen with a center hole for the LaMarzocco center screw in the brew head. Its overwhelming. Do I really need these accessories in this machine? Help!! I am a light-medium to medium roast favor, La Marzocco 17gr basket with 17 grams.
There was a study suggesting paper filters removed acids associated with cancer. The association is low unless one drinks a dozen espresso drinks a day. I wonder if filters are compensating for bad grinders. I will never use a filter.
You're thinking of an oil potentially linked to increased cholesterol maybe? Never heard of coffee linking with cancer, if anything it has some protective effects. I've tried the paper filter method with good grinders and it does seem to increase extraction, it doesn't make your shots look prettier in my experience I seemed to get more channeling (usually with wet filters) but I think it extracts more, needs a finer grind size and tastes like it's higher extracting even if it doesn't look as pretty.
The effects of the filter will be the same generally basket to basket, but the basket shape, holes, patter, etc will definitely make a difference just as it would without a paper filter.
@@notme123123 Worth trying, I think it would actually have a greater improvement on a lower extracting or poorer basket than an already higher extracting basket. I'm not sure I noticed a difference with the Weber Unifilter using a paper filter or not using one. But didn't test that conclusively, I noticed more of a difference using paper or no paper on a regular precision basket. Didn't try on my stock basket since it's tapered and didn't have a filter size that fit nicely.
Those extraction numbers are pretty stat sig if you look at the variances within treatment. Impressive. (Assuming you pulling the shots without throwing any out)
I am 100% converted to the filtered life. I love an occasional espresso, but at this point I really just make a bunch of filter 2.0, freeze them down as ice cubes and transfer them to sealed boxes. This way, I can have like 5 different coffees available at any point in time, not having to worry about constantly having to dial in, and I can just dilute with cold or hot water to any strength that I desire at the given moment. With paper filters I have gotten as high as 25% for these brews where they could still taste amazing, which is honestly kind of insane. The only downside is that I don't have a paper punch so I cut all the papers by hand, which can get very tirering very quickly, so I look forward to the day that you can easilly buy these papers for the same price as aeropress filters.
@@rocketsfancheif it’s an espresso profile that mimics the kind of extraction you get from a pourover, but in a 40g shot that you can then dilute to normal strength.
That could definitely be a benefit in certain cases. But many lesser quality grinders may need those fines to have the puck hold together under pressure and not just quickly plow through it. As you decrease fines you also need to compensate with a finer grind, and a lot of less effective grinders may not be able to go that far.
I wet the filter, not to rinse it but so that it sticks to the bottom of the basket while I RDT. If I don’t wet it, I’ve had it get dislodged during the mixing before and that makes for a bad experience.
I rinse my paper filters because they are a bit wider than my basket, so I "tamp" it with a towel and it fits very snugly, then I put my coffee grinds.
A high extracting basket will cost you a lot more but get you even better results / higher extractions, however most of them end up with clogged holes and work best with paper filters :P
An increased extraction does not imply a better coffee. It depends upon what that extra consisted of. I do not like the taste of over extracted coffee. Whenever I do it my blind taster always notices it. As for not smelling paper, that depends upon your smelling ability. At the moment I cannot smell much of anything thanks to a cold like infection I had. I can still taste.
I’ve definitely heard some rumblings of reducing cholesterol with the filters. I need to look more into that, curious the difference it would make and the actual numbers.
strange, that you didn't mention the health benefits of a paper filter.. coffee always increases cholesterol, except if you filter it with a fabric or paper filter..
That’s possibly true. It’s the takeaway James Hoffmann had about brewing on the Aeropress. But there are plenty of folks who don’t rinse filters on pour overs as well, and again, don’t taste like paper.
@@Sprometheus I remember someone did a test I think it was Hoffman, where he steeped and tasted different pour over filters without coffee :D Some have a stronger / weirder taste than others. If it's a neutral or pleasant / sweet taste shouldn't be a problem. I've had a sweet papery taste I've gotten from some pour overs but I'm pretty sure that was more a note of the coffee than the actual paper.
getting more extraction is not the end goal of making good espresso . they recently have studied it and it turns out extraction evenness is a more important variable than the total extraction when it comes to even and rounded flavors . who wants more of an unbalanced flavour
I’ve never filtered my espressos. I consider it a waste of money and increase of environmental waste production. Paper filters are bleached with chemical, they generate waste at cutting time, etc.
To each their own. But in many cases they can be used multiple times. I’ve used the same Aeropress filter for a handful of brews before. It’s just a process to clean and dry them.
Thank you!!!
I started using a filter a while ago and despite my meticulous puckprep, suddenly all my shots had a consistency i was not able to achieve before.
But i always wondered whether to water the filter or not. I tried a wet filter a few times, but disliked the taste and decided against it.
It is great to have someone like you in the community who walks the walk and not only relies on anecdotal evidence, but tries to take a more scientific but still interesting and enjoyable approach. Keep up your great work!
I use paper filters with ultra precision baskets for "tea like" turbo shots from very light roasts. They help with extraction efficiency and brightness of the taste but also stop the basket from clogging.
This is essentially my preference with them as well.
Definitely hit the nail on the head regarding whether or not higher extraction is better. For some coffees, it works wonders for increasing body and boldness of flavour notes to cut through milk for espresso blended coffees or for fruity notes in lighter coffees, but for others, the end result is way too overwhelming to be called pleasant. I think one espresso theory we should hear more about is purposefully dialling down extraction for coffees.
I had a Brazilian medium dark coffee on my bar at one point and all of the drinks made with it were waay too overwhelming with excessive bitterness no matter how it was dialled in on my Pullman, so eventually, I got my tapered Lelit tapered basket out, and the resulting espresso was perfectly balanced with great body and dark chocolate flavours.
The point is we should look and the roast level and flavour notes to have a basket for certain coffees.
I found stock baskets are fine these days depending on your tastes. The tapered type stock ones do seem to make it easier to get good results and less apparent channeling. With light roasts I think they do give less flavor clarity but better body in general. So many people may prefer sticking with the stock basket. My ECM stock basket was my fav for a while. Just was tired of inconsistent shots I felt the stock basket gave a better success rate but with a lower max potential for light roasts. With a VST basket it seemed like every shot was more of a gamble.
Best video on filters so far. Thank
I started using paper filters to eliminate cafestol after reading that caffeine can increase LDL levels. However, I have since read that this research is ongoing and whether it is significant is open to debate. I started making my own filters from Chemex filters with a 2" punch for a 58mm portafilter. That worked well. However, the paper filter did not quite cover the entire basket bottom. I then tried the Weber brand filters which are made for a 58mm and got a better result (more consistent, bit cleaner taste). Not significant, but better. I am not sure if there was channeling along the edge with my homemade filters (user error, punch not quite 2"??) or whether it is the fact the Weber filters have a rough side (placed toward the bottom) and a smooth side. Filters were rinsed. I called the supplier and they said always rinse. I emailed Weber and they said dry. I am now using dry filters and haven't noticed a difference.
Wrong size punch, you need a 2 and a quarter inch punch to completely cover the bottom.
There’s all sorts of premade filters on Amazon.
Which basket are you using? Most baskets 58mm would be too large for a bottom paper filter, Webers and the other high extracting baskets with holes right close to the edge is the exception. But those 58mm papers don't fit on a flat walled Pullman or Decent brand precision basket, not perfectly anyway. 56mm works for those. Good brothers coffee has a variety of filters and a guide for which sizes work with different baskets.
Agreed with most of the stuff you said, except for the rinsing part. Rinsing the filter paper or spraying some water on it, at the very least, makes the paper stick to the bottom and prevents the grounds from going below the filter paper before or during tamping.
After a number of times testing back and forth on different beans, I've definitely settled on paper filter turbo shots. Sometimes over a frozen metal ball, but sometimes not depending on the coffee. I've gone fully modern!
damn, thanks for doing all the leg work in collecting this data!
how many hours did this take you?
I’d say this was a 12 hour day, just in an effort to try and get the shots to be in a reasonable range of yield and time. I had to toss or not use data from probably an additional 30-40 shots that I missed the numbers on.
Honestly these are videos that are fun to do, but so time and resource intensive.
Logically presented, as always. I hope your "new" lifestyle" is working well for you. The quality of your vids remains high, the length all that's needed. Many thanks.
Always something new to learn and logical approach. I also noted that there is less chance of channeling and easier to clean my portafilter.
I use paper two ways: to deal with one machine that produces an uneven spray; and to reduce cafestol. As others note, more research is needed on latter. I was surprised a few years ago by increased LDL and had to look at the potential role of my twice a day habit.
For sure a filter on top can help with distribution, I feel like the metal screen is a little more efficient though. And I’ve heard about the cholesterol side for sure, but yeah, as you say there is a little more research that needs to be done on that, but if it helps it helps.
Awesome vid! I've always loved your videos about the ins and outs of different espresso variables and this one's a banger! I always rinse my paper but it's just to make it stick to the basket because I'm paranoid about it shifting during WDT.
Robert McKeon Aloe (espressofun) and Jonathan Gagne also have great writeups about the effects of paper filters with more data and experimentation for the nerds who are very interested!
Do you dry it / dab it off after or am I being insane 😂😂
@@JordanLipsFitness_ i sometimes do and sometimes don't but none of us are exactly normal here :D
i guess by "rinse" though i mean i just spritz it with my RDT bottle lol
I found these "Filter Paper for Cafelat Robot Espresso Maker" from Prima Coffee Equipment Co. They are just a little bit bigger than the bottom of my VST 22G basket. After wetting the filter it will conform the the bottom of the basket. Although I have never done any "with & without testing" it seems that the ability to grind finer seems like a "good thing".
great vid. I find in addition to all the reasons you listed, I use filters to sometimes make up for the fact that I don't yet have a great espresso grinder, just the one that comes with the breville barista. It really helps when I get as fine as its conical burrs will let me.
Have you tried turning the burr to the lowest setting
Great video as always. I definitely prefer the paper filter with my high flow baskets. It helps with the cleaning as these high flow baskets clog so easily compared to the old precision baskets.
Thanks for the video. Have you considered doing a video on the pros and cons of using a metal screen on top?
no real benefits appart from being cleaner
I use the Wacaco Picopresso and I find adding paper filters help my shot more balance, increase in taste and texture! Haven’t tried it with any commercial machine or even the Flair though.
Hey, where do you get paper filters that fit the picopresso basket? Cheers!
Would love to see Spro tackle decaf shots (half-caf or other). I can always taste the decaf, and it's generally not pleasant. Why?
FWIW - I bought the filter papers for my VST-15g basket and tried using them for 1 week (placed on bottom of the basket, dry paper, as per James Hoffmann). For my taste - there is no better or worse here, the paper-filtered double espresso tastes and looks a bit different to standard double espresso. For me it paper filter is not worth the extra cost and extra effort. I think some people may prefer the filtered taste so its worth a try, on individual basis. I plan to stick to the basket alone, no paper filter. Peace. Next thing to try are new fancy $100-200 baskets?
Amazing job as always sprometheus. Thanks for sharing this very valuable content
What if the filter is positioned at the top? Would this alter the result, or would the outcome remain unchanged? If it retains the same outcome as when the filter is at the bottom, I believe it's a good idea to place the filter at the top since it keeps the brew head cleaner.
After transitioning to a Unibasket, I started using paper filters since it's way easier to get the puck out after pulling a shot when using them. If I don't put a paper filter in the bottom, it's always a struggle in my case
Only use paper filters at the top (in conjunction with mesh screens) -- I use both sworks baskets and like to keep the grouphead as clean as possible for as long as possible.
I appreciate the insight you brought to the conversation. I haven't tried this before so I'll be giving it a shot sometime soon.
Rinsing makes a huge difference if your workflow involves flipping the portarilter to transfer the grounds from the dosing cup. (E.g. Niche Zero style workflow).
It keeps the paper filter nicely centered through the flip.
Never tasted my (Chemex) filters. Don’t use them on the bottom. I found that it reduced body and mouthfeel/oils, which I like in my shots. I place them on the puck. Mitigated channeling, at least in my experience. I now use a 200micron contact screen on top of the filter, with a 50micron puck screen on top of that. I’ve had zero channelling, and the puck looks like it’s sculpted. Precise edges, and uniform colour. Nice balanced shots. The filter and contact screen keep the puck screen clean (can be a pain to clean), and the shower screen remains spotless.
Thanks for the video. I wonder if adding a filter on top and bottom will have a definite and objective improvement on a certain scenario ie. if on does not have the best grinder or espresso machine. Is using filters better than nothing if you can't upgrade the equipment? (Also let's assume you are doing your best in puck preparation.)
Great video as always! I always use filters, but instead of rinsing them I spray them with RDT :) I like the way it changes my extractions and I am big on interesting flavor notes in the cups so I like the clarity.
I've been using paper filters for two to three months now I've had nothing but good results.
In addition to that it also helps with the odd channelling that that would occur from time to time.
I find with milk base coffees it makes the coffee too light in flavour and you seem to loose those deeper flavours, I find its much better with Espresso but it depends on the blend I use. I really liked your video on it because you are right it does come down to your taste in the end!
Very nice video as usual, thank you! Really appreciate how many measurements you take in order to have statistically significant differences to report.
It might be interesting to compare paper filters vs. the new high-extraction baskets (or the combination of the two).
Thanks for your unbiased and thorough analysis of paper filters on extracted espresso. That was a lot of work!
Personally, I am always looking for ways to simplify and speed up the process of making espresso, to not make the process more complicated that it already is. The use of paper filters takes one in the opposite direction (especially if the filters require manual trimming for every filter, but regardless, even if you could buy them, it adds time and material). As my process already produces excellent espresso, my own conclusion is I'd never try adding a step that a) is more time-consuming, b) more expensive and c) seems to me to take away flavor components I value. I can see where others might prefer using paper filters, as the result may favor their palates.
You’re welcome, and thanks for watching. These kinds of videos are definitely time and resource heavy so I’m always glad to see when people can see that and appreciate it.
And yes, I 100 percent get you. More things to buy, use, and steps to make a shot isn’t always the answer as ‘better’ is a very personal thing. Of course it’s fun to explore if you want to do that, but in the end if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
@@Sprometheus "in the end if it ain’t broke don’t fix it." -- the best of summations! And for some, "it's broke."
To be fair to the effort behind this video, the paper filter in the bottom of the basket seems like a reasonable method to address shortcomings of the grinder and the basket itself. Having dealt with these issues myself and spent six months trying to find the correct IMS precision basket for my RokGC, I appreciate the plight of those who are not able to address problems with their grinder or basket ( for whatever reason that may be). It would seem elitist of me (or anyone) not to acknowledge that.
Having said all of the above, I agree that adding a filter is a step in the wrong direction. Once I got the right basket and a good grinder, all the issues mentioned in the comments were cured. And the coffees are great!
I'm not getting consistent results, but the really good shots did provide more clarity than without. I've decided it's not really something so beneficial that I would add it to my workflow. it was a fun experiment.
Who skips to chapters? These are the most compact coffee theory videos ever!
Interesting with the wet vs dry filter, sounds like dry might be a good balance. I actually was doing my first shot dry and then rinsing and re-using it for the 2nd shot which was wet, I'm not sure I noticed a difference, but I'm usually mixing things up, trying a different coffee or grinder etc but I'll keep an eye on if I notice the difference now with a wet vs dry filter.
Just saying thanks again for such great and thoughtful videos. I really appreciate your efforts. Hope you have a great weekend.
Thank you. What is your stand on using puck screens?
Thank you for the video, and clear summary. I have not tried it as cutting down the filters seemed too much of a "faff". It does seem that I should give it a go for a couple of times after getting grind size dialled in. Take care, All
By reducing oils during extraction, paper filters are great at drastically reducing things like cafestol (which affects your body’s ability to regulate cholesterol).
Thanks, I didn't aware about this
@@hermanzk9916 I'm not sure it's 100% proven yet.
Report from this armchair barista. 🙂I will generally use filters when pulling light roasts with my 40mm Flair. I find it helps with overall shot balance, though with light roasts I'm already using a 1:3 ratio with a long-bloom infusion. This is just a sample of one, of course, and could be due to my personal tastes or due to some effect of the narrow and deep portafilter.
As I understand, cause I tried only once in the past with paper filter, using one can help taking the decision if one wants/needs a unimodal or a bimodal grinder
A very good video, thank you. Can you please offer any guidance what kind of filter paper to use and how to make these filters at home? I have 2 baskets - a VST-15gr and VST-18gr and getting the right paper and right size filter seems very tricky. Thank you, keep it up, please.
Thank you my friend.
Of course! Have a great weekend!
I only use paper filters on to instead of a puck screen. Cleaning a puck screen is time consuming and I'm never satisfied with the results. The filters sometimes stick to the shower screen but a quick purge solves that and my shower screen stays clean.
Going to give it a try! Thanks!
Wow, great info but think I have been doing it wrong. I put the filter on top of the basket. Looks like you put it on the bottom of the basket. Does it make a difference?
Both can make differences. Essentially up top it may help even out the spread of water and avoid jets digging into and causing channeling in your puck. If your machine has a decent screen and/or preinfusion or flow control it may not be necessary. At the bottom the benefits are broader, as I mentioned it can increase the clarity and brightness, as well as extraction. But it can also remove some texture and balance, but it’s all a bit different based on your set up, coffee, etc.
Faster shots means also a lower pressure, right? If that's correct, how does it explain a higher extraction rate when adding the paper filter, as we know that the paper prevents many particles to pass through it? In addition, as we add a paper on top of the puck - does it affect the pressure? My experience shows it evens the extraction , making the repeating shots more consistent.
Great information. Also a beautiful crema in those cups. What beans were you using?
Thank you my friend. In this video I was using a natural Mexico from a local roaster called Field Trip.
@@Sprometheus thank you!
Does papper filter on top works just the same as metalic puck screen? When I pull multiple shots it’s just frustrating to rinse the screen all the time. I’ll rather use papper filter on top instead.
I would have thought there would have been a segment of your video regarding paper filter on the top to keep the shower screen clean????
I make the filters wet in order to have a more consistent and equal extraction (compared to dry filters). Does that make sense?
Not sure I’m picking up what you’re putting down.
Nice video. Did you pre-infuse? Hard to understand how the wet and dry filter expts would be any different in that scenario.
Nope, no pre-infusion. Straight 7 bar pulls.
What are your thoughts on the la marzocco leva X1? Looking to upgrade my mini to a lever machine
Have you tried putting the filter on top? There are some who argue this placement is better. Would be interested to see a comparison to no filter and the filter on the bottom.
That's a very different thing. Not better or worse, but it's not going to give you a higher extraction like this shows.
A lot of people use a reusable metal puck screen on top, but you can also use paper. Supposedly works as a secondary shower screen but I mainly just use them to keep my espresso machines brew group cleaner which it definitely does (paper should work too I think). The other benefit of a puck screen may be working as a secondary tamp if you tamped insufficiently, one person I sold a puck screen to said his channeling issues went away, maybe his machine had really poor water distribution and that helped or he was tamping too weakly not sure. But I don't think I noticed a difference with a top puck screen for taste.
Great video. Just curious if you've tried using a filter on top? I use a filter but I've also started using one on top as well instead of using one of those metal pucks.
Thanks Don! And yeah, I have. It’s become something that generally fell off for me as it didn’t seem to make much if any difference after I upgraded my shower screen, and began using flow profiling to reduce channeling.
At this point the benefit overall would just be a cleaner group. Which is a nice thing, but wasn’t enough to go full filter sandwich mode for me.
@@Sprometheus great point! Having a cheaper machine (Breville Barista Max), at a standart 9bar and inconsistent shower screen, I experienced more consistent pulls having a paper filter on top as well
I stopped using filters, on the bottom i found the espresso smoother bur flavours somewhat muted, and on the top - often get an uneven extraction. So naked puck - occasionally using a mesh if feeling frivolous
I use to use a paper filter on the top but moved to a fine mesh puck screen to mitigate puck craking. This may give a thicker pour as a result of less head space.
@@Sprometheus Thanks. I use it for the cleaner group without having to keep cleaning a metal puck screen.
I'm a total newb. would it be helpful for manual lever which I am told have trouble with light roasts--not sure why? also would it help filter out the coffee chemicals that are said to raise cholesterol?
During my tests, the wet paper filter was prone to make my WDT more difficult (worse). In some shots, the paper moved from the bottom position when starting a deep WDT. When the paper was dry, I never experienced that inconvenience.
I would think dry paper would move more since it's not adhering as much to the bottom.
@@BensCoffeeRants That was my initial concept before trying to do deep wdt over a wet paper :) And also, when wet, It looks like the extraction starts when the coffee touch the hot basket with the wet paper. For me, the taste is better with a dry paper.
@@JulianofcaldGood to know thanks. I'll try to pay attention more to any differences if I use a wet or dry one.
be more gentle and don't drag the wires on the base
Long time, first time. How do you trim down your aeropress filters? Also, can I ask where you got the demitasse cup you were brewing into?
Hey Brandon, I usually trim the filters using the metal filter screen I have, then trim just a little more off of that to fit it into the bottom of the basket as most baskets taper a bit towards the bottom. No need to be extremely accurate, just enough to make sure you cover all the holes.
And the demitasse I used in the video are from odakahome.com
Thanks!
I was using both chemex paper filters and mesh puck screen on my Expobar E61 with increased flow, cleaner head and tighter pucks. Fast forward to this past week, I upgraded to the Linea Micra, and had to get a 3Bomber screen with a center hole for the LaMarzocco center screw in the brew head. Its overwhelming. Do I really need these accessories in this machine? Help!! I am a light-medium to medium roast favor, La Marzocco 17gr basket with 17 grams.
I will be trying more shots without filters, good thoughts here!
There was a study suggesting paper filters removed acids associated with cancer. The association is low unless one drinks a dozen espresso drinks a day.
I wonder if filters are compensating for bad grinders. I will never use a filter.
You're thinking of an oil potentially linked to increased cholesterol maybe? Never heard of coffee linking with cancer, if anything it has some protective effects.
I've tried the paper filter method with good grinders and it does seem to increase extraction, it doesn't make your shots look prettier in my experience I seemed to get more channeling (usually with wet filters) but I think it extracts more, needs a finer grind size and tastes like it's higher extracting even if it doesn't look as pretty.
I’m curious if the effects are different with different filter baskets.
The effects of the filter will be the same generally basket to basket, but the basket shape, holes, patter, etc will definitely make a difference just as it would without a paper filter.
@@Sprometheus I was hoping a filter might have more effect in a cheap basket
@@notme123123 Worth trying, I think it would actually have a greater improvement on a lower extracting or poorer basket than an already higher extracting basket. I'm not sure I noticed a difference with the Weber Unifilter using a paper filter or not using one. But didn't test that conclusively, I noticed more of a difference using paper or no paper on a regular precision basket. Didn't try on my stock basket since it's tapered and didn't have a filter size that fit nicely.
Those extraction numbers are pretty stat sig if you look at the variances within treatment. Impressive. (Assuming you pulling the shots without throwing any out)
I agree with all of your points here.
Love your work
Thanks Bruce, I greatly appreciate the kind words!
Thanks for the well executed and informative take. I do filter my espresso and I reached roughly similar conclusions as yours.
Great video and very educational! Thanks
I am 100% converted to the filtered life. I love an occasional espresso, but at this point I really just make a bunch of filter 2.0, freeze them down as ice cubes and transfer them to sealed boxes. This way, I can have like 5 different coffees available at any point in time, not having to worry about constantly having to dial in, and I can just dilute with cold or hot water to any strength that I desire at the given moment. With paper filters I have gotten as high as 25% for these brews where they could still taste amazing, which is honestly kind of insane. The only downside is that I don't have a paper punch so I cut all the papers by hand, which can get very tirering very quickly, so I look forward to the day that you can easilly buy these papers for the same price as aeropress filters.
What is filter 2.0?
@@rocketsfancheif it’s an espresso profile that mimics the kind of extraction you get from a pourover, but in a 40g shot that you can then dilute to normal strength.
That magazine is over 20 dollars per issue.
I thinking maybe paper helps with a lesser quality grinder that might produce more fines but maybe you want that for espresso?
That could definitely be a benefit in certain cases. But many lesser quality grinders may need those fines to have the puck hold together under pressure and not just quickly plow through it. As you decrease fines you also need to compensate with a finer grind, and a lot of less effective grinders may not be able to go that far.
Filtered with and without screen?
I wet the filter, not to rinse it but so that it sticks to the bottom of the basket while I RDT. If I don’t wet it, I’ve had it get dislodged during the mixing before and that makes for a bad experience.
I rinse my paper filters because they are a bit wider than my basket, so I "tamp" it with a towel and it fits very snugly, then I put my coffee grinds.
Yeah if you rinse you can generally skip the trim. I generally will just cut a handful at once and use them periodically with or without rinse.
I really enjoy a paper filter on some coffees. Especially if making a cappuccino.
I think you should have checked total dissolved solids on just a water and filter test.
I have been playing with filters for espresso. I find some beans are better with a filter, while other beans lose their complexity.
I wondered about this few days ago and tried it... and you just posted this.. are you watching me?
I didn't try it yet, but I think I don't want to add more steps to my workflow.
A high extracting basket will cost you a lot more but get you even better results / higher extractions, however most of them end up with clogged holes and work best with paper filters :P
Probably should be combined with baskets that have a higher flow rate to compensate...
I wet the filter so it sticks to the bottom of the portafilter.
That’s definitely a benefit of rinsing, though I don’t think I’ve noticed grinds slipping under the dry filter, but I could imagine it happening.
@@Sprometheus I feel more like a small amount of water might bypass the grounds bed as the puck saturates but this is just theory
I tried it but realized it was not for me.
It’s always good to check things off the list!
Sadly need to use filter because of cafestol in coffee beans
I tried using a filter at the bottom of my portafilter but instead of increasing the flow rate almost no coffee came out!
An increased extraction does not imply a better coffee. It depends upon what that extra consisted of. I do not like the taste of over extracted coffee. Whenever I do it my blind taster always notices it. As for not smelling paper, that depends upon your smelling ability. At the moment I cannot smell much of anything thanks to a cold like infection I had. I can still taste.
I could not think of a funny comment. Espresso good. Coffee good.
I've been doing this for at least 15 years now. Filtering reduces cafestol, so that's another consideration.
I’ve definitely heard some rumblings of reducing cholesterol with the filters. I need to look more into that, curious the difference it would make and the actual numbers.
@@Sprometheus Yeah, I don't really know, but it doesn't seem to affect the taste, so better safe than sorry?
"I am become Spro, destroyer of armchair baristas"
strange, that you didn't mention the health benefits of a paper filter.. coffee always increases cholesterol, except if you filter it with a fabric or paper filter..
☕☕☕
Love Is Important ❤ 😚
Indeed my friend! Cheers!
I've fooled with it in spurts.
Not enough difference to keep me motivated to do it all the time.
I’m with you. Honestly the explosion in its popularity is a little confusing to me, but espresso is a very subjective experience so to each their own.
Keep chasing, my friend… thanks for the information. I’ll give it a shot - pardon the pun.
I didn't find paper filters worth time or money to use everyday in espresso brewing.
Yeah, they are something I don’t do daily, or in most cases weekly.
the wet filter basically turns your basket into a pressurised basket . like the ones used for pre ground coffee to make faeke crema
The paper is likely too small to cause the shot to taste like paper
That’s possibly true. It’s the takeaway James Hoffmann had about brewing on the Aeropress. But there are plenty of folks who don’t rinse filters on pour overs as well, and again, don’t taste like paper.
@@Sprometheus I remember someone did a test I think it was Hoffman, where he steeped and tasted different pour over filters without coffee :D Some have a stronger / weirder taste than others. If it's a neutral or pleasant / sweet taste shouldn't be a problem. I've had a sweet papery taste I've gotten from some pour overs but I'm pretty sure that was more a note of the coffee than the actual paper.
I rinse the paper filter so that it stays put when I turn the portafiler over onto the dosing cup. 😂 That's it. That's all the science I cared about.
I thought the idea came from the Aeropress
Filtered always, in order to avoid cafestol and kahweol.
getting more extraction is not the end goal of making good espresso . they recently have studied it and it turns out extraction evenness is a more important variable than the total extraction when it comes to even and rounded flavors . who wants more of an unbalanced flavour
Was raised catholic and i wanted to eat that paper filter being waved around.
I’ve never filtered my espressos. I consider it a waste of money and increase of environmental waste production. Paper filters are bleached with chemical, they generate waste at cutting time, etc.
To each their own. But in many cases they can be used multiple times. I’ve used the same Aeropress filter for a handful of brews before. It’s just a process to clean and dry them.
@@Sprometheus When I was using filters on both the top & bottom I would throw away the bottom and use the previous top filter on the bottom next time.
@@Sprometheus Ah nice, glad to know I'm not the only weirdo who re-uses paper filters haha.