ESPRESSO ANATOMY - Do Puck Screens Work?
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2021
- Lately I've been seeing more and more about puck screens, more specifically the Bplus version. This little piece of metal mesh is said to not only allow for a softer, more even application of water to your espresso, but also has other benefits like increased extraction. The barista in me had to know more, so I picked one up and got to work.
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The B Plus gets an A+ This video, Priceless. Greatly appreciate your time, taste test, tds. Superbly done
Great video, thank you! I’m brand new to making espresso and just tried a screen today because my cheaper entry level machine was getting pretty bad channeling, no matter how diligent I was in dispersing and tamping. The screen really made a big difference with keeping this from happening, more compact, cleaner pucks and cleaner machine.
You should probably try adding your dose or adjust your grinding level. Based on my experience, tamping made the less effect on brew time
Another perfect video Spro - much appreciate the effort you put into this content.
Thank you my friend! I always appreciate kind words.
The screen has made a huge difference for me on the latter half of the shot. Great video!
Reduced channeling by itself would in theory lead to longer shot times. That might be sufficient explanation. Incidentally I highly recommend modding the group to a countersunk/flat bolt.. had the same issue with the puck divot back when I had my Silvia… used to rustle my ocd jimmies.
Just wanna say I really appreciate your vids. Thorough and clear. Thanks for the content.
Thanks Jesse, I appreciate that my friend. I really do my best to get straight to the point. I mean, some things don’t need a 25 minute video to explain haha.
I’ve just bought the Shades of Coffee 50 micron version. V impressed, does what Sprometheus says. Just a little more time needed to clean the puck screen itself. Not sure if different screen mesh sizes would make much difference - Shades also offer a 200 micron version
I've been waiting for this, awesome review! Definitely going to try this!
Thanks CP, I appreciate the kind words! Would love to hear your thoughts after trying them out!
For my Bezzera BZ10 HX machine this little screen is a game changer. This machine is set from the factory at something like 12 bar, I've adjusted it to as close as I could to 10 bar but that's as far as it will go. With the added and immediate pressure (no pre infusion) channeling has been an issue since day 1 to the point that I thought I would just upgrade my machine. No need to now, channeling issues are a thing of the past and I can extract lighter roasts without issue. Best $35 ever spent. These should and likely will be a standard one day.
I knew you’d come through with some good knowledge on this. I was debating wether or not to add this to upcoming accessories but I think I’ll pass or put this further down my list. Doesn’t seem to really do much other than keep your machine cleaner. Great video.
I'm thinking of buying it just to keep the mashine cleaner
Mine is an entry cheap one so keeping it clean will keep it running longer
Thx for experiments, it's always interesting!
Solid video! Very curious to see how this could be incorporated in a cafe environment since they have to pull hella shots during the course of a few hours.
Great video! I find the BPlus screen helps me a lot with consistent results for (ultra) light roasts.
My technique is slightly different, in that I tamp with the screen already in place.
Thanks! That’s interesting. I considered that, wasn’t sure if that would maybe clog it up a bit as it’s compressed. I may have to try that out.
@@Sprometheus I'd be curious about this too.
You totally nailed it with this one Asa!
I couldn’t agree more.
I use my BPlus 100% of the time now and it’s made my espresso so much better.
Nicely done💪🏻
Greetings from Canada.
Cheers.
Thank you! It’s definitely a solid accessory for an espresso lover. I don’t think it’ll be 100% of the time for me, I think when I’m pulling the lighter roasts this will be on the deck though, which is about 80% of the time haha.
Just join the channel, nice work, I've been using a Pesado screen for a while, but watching today, I learned a whole lot more regarding the outcome. Thanks! BTW, what kind of Distribution tool is that? Thanks
I've been doing the aeropress paper (top only) since seeing your vid on it and love the results. May have to spring for one of these.
It definitely works in a similar way to the Aeropress, but the less waste is nice.
@@Sprometheus for sure although I will say i typically reuse the paper about 7 to 10 times before replacing. Still the idea of a permanent solution is pretty apealing.
Just got the Normcore screen today. Took two shots to dial in at a courser setting. Great shots and easy clean up.
FYI: I bought screens on AliExpress for $7.00 each:
SIZE: 51mm, 53.5mm, 58.5mm
Thickness: 1mm、1.7mm、2mm
Filtration Size: 150μm/100μm/50μm
Bought one today! Thanks Spro
the option i'm waiting to see explored is a puck screen held down with a spring. it seems to me that this extra mechanical compression is likely to reduce channeling ... even more than the reduced channeling you're reporting here with just screen and water pressure
From Quebec : Merci, je viens de me procurer ce bien.
J'aime bien votre approche et reviendrai vous voir !
(Thank you, I just got this good.
I like your approach and will come back to see you!)
This would be worth it for the cleaner machine and pucks alone, but having more benefits is super cool! Would definitely get this, if I had a machine with a 58mm portafilter
They actually make it in a pretty big variety of diameters. I’d check them out and see if they make them to fit your machine.
Yeah, it’s pretty varied in sizes. I’m using it for my pre-millenium (49mm) La Pavoni, and it has drastically changed my weekly and monthly cleanup.
i've been using this from October last year, and really happy with it 👍🏼
Nice! I’ll be curious to see if it wears or the benefits fade over time.
@@Sprometheus used to pull 3-4 shots a day, so far i don't see any degradation. only rinse everytime after use and occasionally on weekends use steam wand just for good measure
Great video thanks for sharing what you know. 😀
Iv been using the bplus screen for about 2 months now on my Silvia with PID and I have to say iv been getting really positive results. The shots are much more consistent and the extractions are beautiful. Regarding the workflow I've had no issues in cleaning the screen, I usually just rinse it under the tap and from time to time I use the steam wand to blast any stuck particles away. For me thats a very good trade-off for a cleaner machine and easy to remove pucks (seriously, it's beautiful) the only thing you did touch on is temperature as I assume the screen absorb some heat resulting in a slightly cooler extraction water. I try to bump up the temp by about 2f to compensate that. Apart from that iv been getting similar results like you showed. I did sense some lack of brightness in some coffees that has more fruit forward tasting notes so I decided to not use the screen on these particular ones, but over all I use it on 90% of my shots. It's especially helpful with more finicky coffees like light roasts or very fresh roasts that still have alot of gas buildup that are hard to dial in, it helped me achieve great results for somewhat unusable or just simply annoying coffees.
Thanks for the video Spro! Great job as always!
Thanks bro I was thinking of buying one but I will. Mainly for keeping the mashine clean it's really annoying to clean the shower every time after
And it's a bonus that it helps with extracting
@@rook2010 still using that screen btw, it's still pretty much the same since i wrote that comment 😄
@@yanaysova5782 awesome
Thanks
I'm Going to order mibru 51m. I thinks it's 150 micron
I bought one for my sage dual boiler it's made a massive difference in my case as I had constant channeling. Would be interesting if you ran the same tests on a cheaper coffee machine with less initial distribution from the shower screen. it saved me money from upgrading coffee machine 😊
One annoying thing is knocking the puck screen into the knock box and having to stick your fingers in 🤣
Can it be cheaper
I Had the exact same experience. I have the sage dual boiler, niche grinder, WDT tool, leveler, spring/leveling tamper, precision basket, and I was still getting a lot of channeling.
Was about to start messing with different shower screens, but this puck screen did the job.
thank you for the comments Kristian Lilley and Rafael @zepipoco
The cafelat Robot has used a dispersion screen from the beginning. Of course they kinda need something since there isn't a "dispersion screen" built in like most machines have. Different ball game, same effect, even dispersion, low channeling, good extraction.
Ahh finally an answer to why my shot was sour with the screen with an already perfectly dialed in coffee bean!! Merci
Damn, been a while since I've watched a Sprometheus video and the quality has ramped up! Nice one man! I'd like to know whether they're easy to clean and the longevity of these screens, over a couple months, would I start to see fraying on the edges if I pulled 100 shots a day? Are they expensive? Also, with the cleanliness aspect, would fine particles get trapped in the mesh and transfer bad tastes to new shots down the line?
Final note, is this screen really preventing channelling or is it just reducing the severity of said channels? I noticed at 1:52 there was a significant angle on your puck, despite using a re-distrubtion tool in your puck prep. I'd like to know whether these surface re-distrubtion tools are actually any good. A theory of mine after seeing that angled puck is that one side could have been denser and therefore compacted less by the screen itself inside the portafilter. I'd like to find a tool that instills confidence in the evenness of my puck density when preparing my basket.
I want it just bc I love that it keeps the shower screen cleaner
Hey ! Awesome work ! Do you know if it should work same for lever machines ? Because I have been using it with a Pavoni Europiccola and I actually notice the opposite effect regarding extraction time, I needed to grind way finer in order to have similar speed extraction, with a coarser setting and the mesh, water was just rushing through the portafilter.
Great video, thanks!
Not only does my screen provide better shots, but it really helps keep the group head clean. I love mine.
This could have a profound impact on using unimodal "brew" burrs for espresso, no fines needed, better clarity and sweetness and higher extraction rate.
i finally got a puck screen and was surprised about the improvement in taste.
in my case ive always thought that my e61 shower did a poor job at water distribution no matter how much I clean and backflush.
I think the screen is helping with that. I got sweeter and more balanced shots
Thank you for your video. I bought a puck screen as a result.
I used to get soggy pucks, but now they changed to nice dry pucks after using a puck screen. - I’m just wondering what the science is behind using a puck screen is. All I know is that my group head stays much cleaner now, pucks pop out cleanly, and the shot still tastes great. - from those with more espresso experience than myself, I’d love to know why the puck screen results in nice dry pucks with the same dose/coffee/grind/etc. - thanks! 🙏🏻
Yes they work. I could not imagine workflow on my La Pavoni without it.
Spro..will the Flair OEM screen produce similar results. Have you compared screens? Excellent video here!
Great Video as always! What do you recommend as the ideal setting for Linea Mini? I thought i saw your setting at 207F 3 scc for pre-infusion and 3 sec hold for full pressure ...I do have Niche as well and i am grinding as coarse as possible to get to 35 sec extracting time before i set my pre-infusion and holding time. Thanks
I love my BPlus screen for my Faemina. The biggest improvement for me is keeping things clean, but I think it also improved my shot consistency (maybe related to channeling I could not see). I did not notice my shots pulling dramatically slower though, maybe just a few seconds but not like what you see.
If the screen is against the grounds, the metal would act as a new surface under pressure causing the grounds that are blocked to be unable to extract correctly. The screen looks very fine and likely is behaving like a faucet strainer to the pressurized water, causing a lack of pressure.
Based your video i orderd the Bplus and i think it's defenitly worthful - more balance in each shot. Of course, all the time it is needed to take a eye on the right baset size due to headspace.
Very interesting video, love to content! I did buy one of these screens recently and I have to say I’ve really been struggling with it. Every shot I pull, I’ve noticed a donut extraction where the espresso seems to be getting around the sides of the screen. The result has been way faster shot times and more channeling, not the slower, more even ones that you experienced. Curious if you had this issue or if you have a potential solution. Thanks!
Very in depth and concise explanation as always! I'm very curious how this screen would work with my personal favorite, the 9Barista -- since it brews upside-down, I wonder if the puck compression effect would be mitigated by gravity? I'll give it a try and see what happens!
Thanks Josh! And I actually have seen some discussions on Facebook in the Portable Espresso group about using this with the 9Barista. I didn’t read it at the time, but it may provide some insight.
@@Sprometheus following up: I've used the Bplus screen on my 9Barista for the last 7 shots over the course of the week and have not needed to adjust my grind size at all! I've experienced all of the benefits that you described in the video with zero drawbacks. 10/10 would recommend, thank you for putting me onto this!
@@lordblumby glad to hear you’re enjoy it. I need to get a 9barista. But it seems that it varies on the machine too. When I used it on the Xbar, I had to grind finer. Not sure how or why that is occurring.
One plus side that I would test is if this screen would help lousy home baristas. You use a lot of prep stuff to make a good shot. But I feel that something like that might help with lousy distribution and compress techniques.
Hi Spro, great video. I’m pretty new to this, I’m a bit worried that the screen might damage my machine (Sage Oracle Touch). Can you elaborate if my worries are ledigt?
This could be interesting on some of the shot profiles that deteriorate threw the shot the filter is essentially tamping the shot as it deteriorated it’s not lowering flow but exerting downward pressure over the surface area of the filter being pushed down keeping the puck together the coffee is the added restriction it can’t deteriorate and increase flow threw the shot
Newer to espresso here. How did your shots taste with the screen? If you had to grind larger to get the shot you wanted, did it make your coffee have less flavor? Thanks
On the Decent forums I've seen people recommending these for cleaner pucks or dosing more then the basket is designed for and I've been on edge but with the coarser grind required I may just get since my grinder doesn't do the best with my really light roasts.
So if you need to grind coarser to keep the time the same, doesn’t that change the taste of the shots? If it does, I would think keeping the grind the same, even if the flow is slower is best to keep the taste the same. Not sure though
Nice informative video
Thank you my friend, thanks for watching!
Just wanted to see if you might do a part 2 of this with it on the bottom of the basket or maybe even the "filterwich"?
It won’t actually fit on the bottom, the basket tapers in a bit. I will try it with some other baskets though and see. I think maybe this one on top and the Aeropress underneath could be a solid play though.
Thanks for the thorough video and breakdowns! A question: would a puck screen potentially do away with the need for a "better" shower screen, e.g. an IMS screen? If the puck screen is dispersing the water evenly, is an upgraded shower screen still necessary? And further, if you could only choose one or the other (a puck screen vs a precision shower screen), which would be better for overall evenness and consistency? Thanks a bunch!
I would say definitely 'maybe' If you want to experiment in expensively see AliExpress = $7.00 each delivered:
SIZE: 51mm, 53.5mm, 58.5mm
Thickness: 1mm、1.7mm、2mm
Filtration Size: 150μm/100μm/50μm
Another great review! I'm curious what you would prioritize between an IMS shower screen and this puck screen. One of them or both?
Thank you, and thanks for watching. That’s a good question. The screen may make the screen inconsequential, so I’d go for the BPlus
Hi Spro,
Nice work!! I've been using the screen with my Breville 920 and have not observed any change in shot time. I usually use 10 to 15 seconds of pre-infusion with my coffees...so maybe this is a factor. Have you added back any pre-infusion time with your LMLM and noticed this?
I'm interested to know if you lower the dosage amount to compensate for the puck screen itself, do you use the razor tool supplied by Breville to keep clearance from the shower head once the puck screen is in?
@@theman9168 I don't change the dose if head space is a problem (my usual range is 17g to 19g), but will move from my 18g VST basket to my 20g VST basket to keep some head space. I only use the razor to measure depth (for head space) and then if it's sitting to high I'll change to my larger basket.
Great video. Do you think having flow control would change whether or not you would use this?
befor seeing this video I must say YES! Without I have the puck totally wet and disgusting, with the screen everything clean and dry. Just perfect.
What happens at higher yields? I get my daily filter up to 24%+ easily and would be amazed if you’re limited to 20% for espresso extractions. Shouldn’t the evenness of flow it affords you enable higher yields and reduce the risk of longer shot times or higher flow rates?
All I know from using one myself is, all of the above noted points in your video, but also that I end up with a hot as hell metal disc to handle, which is definitely not a treat. Are you able to elaborate on how you deal with this super-heated disc of death? Some sort of work through protocol that addresses this?
Ha, I think we almost got a smile on this vid!
I’ve been using mine with the robot for a couple months and overall like it.
With a manual espresso machine, a potential down side might be that it cools the water even more.
I use a double pour to help solve this potential problem.
Probably not a big deal on darker roasts.
Any thoughts on thermal management with the screen?
It does appear to reduce shot temperature with a La Pavoni for sure. It's otherwise excellent. I'm experimenting with leaving it in the PF when pre-heating and double pour as you say.
After a lot of tasting with my Pavoni and my commercial HX machine, I can say that even if you warm it up, it reduces the temperature of the water
Great video, although I haven't owned a bplus, I have been using the flair 58 mesh screens on my Silvia with auber pid, I can't say I've noticed that i've had to change the grind setting on my Niche, but in all honesty i can't say it's something I've been paying attention to, so maybe I have changed grind without really remembering, usually half asleep when I'm pulling my shots, who knows, but i've loved using the flair 58 mesh, reduced channeling, better, more uniform flow from my shots, and best of all its kept my grouphead very clean, all in all I'd recommend them, they do add something to the experience, I wonder if the bplus is less porous than the flair 58 screen 🤔 would make sense as to why it's added more time to your shots before adjusting the grind.
The Flair 58 screen I believe is the same just rebranded. I could be wrong.
@@Sprometheus I think you're more than probably right on this, thanks for replying mate.
One other benefit of the screen.. it keeps the group head much cleaner. You can verify by cleaning before with and without the screen. I was shocked by the difference and the primary reason I keep using a screen
my issue was, somewhat less taste for the first try... I use VST basket, with this puck screen, b/c this is almost 2mm thickness ( which lead less water working in the space of basket and shower screen ) my solution was, using 20g basket, 18 g coffee and this puck screen - made same taste of 18g on 18g basket.. yet clean and almost no channeling. hope this help!
Your compressed puck looks similar to what I experience when I overfill my portafiltro to where it touches the dispersion screen and doesn't have room to expand. Any concerns about the puck not saturating completely when using the screen?
I do that too
Did you ever investigate if raising the brew temp to account for the temp drop of the water passing through the metal screen would change the extraction? I keep mine stored in the portafilter so it's warm when my machine turns on in the morning.
I'd be curious to see what the results would be using the same grind with and without the screen.
Is it possible to increase espresso quality in home machines such as sunbean or breville ? Can it make the machines more even during extractions ?
Hey I was wondering about puck screens on lower quality espresso machine, Eg the GCP. I feel on the higher end ones, yeah it helps to squeeze that last bit out, but on the cheaper machines, do you think it would a considerable help to reduce channeling + improve taste? Note: I use WDT and have good luck prep otherwise.
From what I've read, sufficient and or consistent pressure delivery can be an issue with cheaper machines. Me personally, I would start with a laser cut basket. You would be surprised how much difference they make. I made the change from the standard factory issue machine press basket to laser cut and I'd never go back to a machine pressed basket.
It's great for those cheap casabrews machines with higher pressures that have a 10 second shot pull. It slows it down and makes a better shot. Maybe they're nit needed for good machines but it's probably a good idea for a cheap machine like mine haha
I got a cheap aliexpress puck screen and it is a huge difference. I didn't really have to adjust grind size but channeling is completely gone.
I wish you see this comment. You should make a video pulling a shot just grind distribution tamp and and pull the shot vs grind than use all the new cod methods combine shower screens more thing the adding the thing in this videos and than pull. Just to see how much different a shot go out in terms of flavor and extraction.
Thanks man good videos
heya! just wanted to find out if I dose 20g of coffee for each shot using the bplus screen, should I be using a 20g or 22g VST filter basket?
You mentioned the paper filters, any difference between paper filters (on top) and puck screens? Which is better? Similar result?
You had to coarsen off your grind but did you taste the shots same grind w/ screen and what were those extraction percentages?
Cool!
I think the only disadvantage is to reduce max limit of the basket. Without screen I can fit 18g. With screen I forced to reduce to 16.5g
Learned alot from this channel thank you ☕
I wonder if the is a difference between the screen you used and the Flair screen? I have the Flair 58, and also a Salvatore HX machine. I’ve tried the screen with the Salvatore and didn’t see much difference in the shot. It wasn’t slower. I have a good grinder (Monolith conical) and I use WDT, and my prep is very good. The only benefit I found was a cleaner group head. The thing I don’t like I that the screen stays very wet after a shot, and you can get buildup of “stuff” after many shots. What do you do to clean it?
So if we use one of these, should we be tamping lighter?
hello! I used my puck screen on my ECM mechanika V but it just stopped the machine. Sound was on but water was not flowing out anymore. This continued even after I took out my portafilter. I had to full open the flow control valve and fully close the valve to make it work again. Any thoughts? do you think this was due to the puck screen? When i took my portafilter out the top of the puck was a bit wet but not all the way through. FYI, the grind size, amount and every other variable were the same (18g IMS basket and 18g dose). help! thank you!
Thank you for the informative video! Using a fine atomization sprayer to put about 2 gm water onto the surface of the tamped puck will dramatically increase transfer rate; e.g.,, from 30 to 20 seconds. It promotes wetting and uptake of water and helps to improve extraction uniformity. So perhaps this surface treatment before applying the screen could move your time back into the range it would be without the screen and allow you to retain the same grind. It appears to be priced at > $50 US, however, and probably wouldn't be a good value proposition for me.
Q1. what is the impact on the puck temperature? Any experiment has been done?
Q2. Standard brewing ratio is 1:2, with puck screen, what is the recommended brewing ratio?
Hi, for a 52mm basket diameter, what screen mm would be ideal? Also, any density recommendations?
What happens when you don't alter grind? Yes, the shot time changes but what about extraction and are the shots bad? You could let it run for 40 seconds or more and be just fine. Also instead of grinding coarser, might you be able to get a similar extraction with less coffee?
Since Spromethous won't reply to your question.
I'm guessing an answer could be, that when using a screen and by choosing not to make the grind size larger and or more course; could in turn create an over extraction and would be noticed as a bitter note on the middle and back part of the tongue's tastebuds.
True. I found out that less grams of coffee extract faster. So I guess you could either grind courser or downsize your dose
Used the Normocore puck screen and noticed the shot temp is much more cool than without, resulting in a pretty sour shot. Don’t think I’ll use it anymore
What's the theory behind quicker extraction due to less headspace in the portafiler? Is it due to the limitation of free space in the portafilter which causes the water down to the puck, leading to quicker extraction?
the rocket appartamento seem to have a higher brew pressure ( around 11 to 14 bar ) do you think the screen is a good option to reach the "magic" 9 bar?
I think your numbers for the additional tamp are off a bit. Pressure is force per unit area. Force is pressure multiplied by area. A 58mm porta filter has an area of about 4 square inches. That means 1 bar of pressure across the screen creates an additional ~60 lbs of tamp force! With that in mind, your theory seems even more likely. Are you able to see the pressure in the group head with and without the screen?
So more course of a grind. But how many seconds did it take to extract the 40-42grams using the screen?
Adding a bit more to the analysis here, in an academic or scientific setting we'd use a two-sample t-test for equal means to determine whether the averages here (5:00) are different in a statistically meaningful way. I quickly ran the numbers and got a t-stat of 1.642--which under many circumstances we'd say is not a statistically meaningful difference, at least with those small sample sizes.
To tackle the slower flow of the screen have you tried extracting at 6 bar for a faster flow rate?
Do you recommend using the paper puck filter at the bottom (which increases flow speed) at the same time as the puck screen?
So , would it make sense to keep my Gaggia at 12 bar to use with the puck instead of modding the spring to 9 bar?
If you kept the same grind setting as the no screen, but reduced the amount of coffee. You might be able to achieve same flow but reduced yield. Putting 16.5g or 17g in a 18g basket And test it out.
The first person I saw put an aeropress filter on a portafilter was nolan hurte at proud mary melbourne in 2013...
I definitely do not get clean/dry pucks with the screen. Still pretty wet (DE1).
I noticed that for 58.5mm puck screen, there are different hole sizes, which is 50, 100 and 150um. Which one to order?
What was the can that you used to transfer the grounded coffee to the portafilter?
What about the Cafelat filter screen? The stronger one with the silicone pinch grip so it doesn't get bent.