My dad has made espresso for 10 years, he has a really great setup with a mazzer grinder and a rocket giotto evoluzione r. I have just gotten into espresso in the last year. He made fun of me when i used a scale to measure coffee input/output, and said he had never used that. When i got home to my dad and used his machine his grinder timer was set for 13 grams in his 18 gram basket, he ground to coarse and the ratio was of course way off. He had also never backflushed his machine because he thought the basket coudn't come off... I have now dailed in his grinder, cleaned his machine, and have used the last few presents over the year to get him to make better espresso. He has returned the favour and gotten me a Rocket Fausto Chrome for my 23 birthday, so im very happy:))
Well... The thing you need to understand is we all have different preferences and palettes. You go to a busy Italian Cafe in Italy and they do not do anything like the suggested tips (in most cases). So long as your dad is happy with his drink then all is good. Cheers. 😊
@@nostro1001 I could argue a bit. If you don't know what is good, then your average shot might be the best possible, you just haven't tried better one. That was my mistake for few years, my ratio was horrible, but when I've gradually increased it I've noticed the difference for every 1g added. It was not a matter of taste, it's was a lack of knowledge how to make it way better.
Hello and thank you so much for this (and all the other videos)! Having 15 years of professional experience as a barista, I think that we are seeing slightly longer shots being pulled because: 1. Needle Distribution Techniques (and better espresso puck preparation in general). We have become better at getting more homogenous extractions, so we can get more of the good stuff (and less of the "bad"). 2. The above, in combination with better Grinders, makes us more efficient in extracting the coffees nicely. So, slightly longer shots to actually get a balanced espresso, with rich taste and body. Yay! Back in the days (around 2015), we were experiencing more chanelling and more uneven saturations (and extractions), so we needed slightly shorter ratios to compensate for the not very desired flavours. Thanks for your time! Have a great day y'all!
The mere fact that someone has communicated with James Hoffman about their espresso makes it above average espresso. Like the uncertainty principle, truly average coffee only exists in its unmeasured state.
It's like a Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The mere fact of measuring messes with the system. he asked and only people that feel inclined to answer have a skewed answer compared to someone on the street. The data is always wiggled in some way.
7:15, "what it would be to live in a world where this was the average." - I feel like he's giving something of a nod to your sentiments here, but what you wrote remains a helpful comment/footnote to the video. Cheers
I think the missed question is, "When you make an adjustment for new beans, which variable are you most likely to adjust first?" Grind Setting, Temp, Ratio, Etc.
It honestly depends on the beans. If ive been working through a dark roast but switch to a medium, then I obviously want to dial it back to a more medium-fine grind but if im going from medium to another medium then I'll leave it untouched until ive made my first cup then decide if it needs dialling in based on the flavour of the cup. Brew time is always 2mins when working with an aeropress. although I'll normally give new beans an extra 30-60 seconds after Ive tried the first cup to see how that alters the flavour profile. I have had some amazing coffees by leaving it for an extra 30-60s but it really depends on the beans.
A factor that also may impact these results is that the people being surveyed are probably all familiar with this channel. Much of their espresso routine may be impacted by the information you've offered on this channel. If the survey also included a lot of people who are not tuned into this channel, I expect the results could be different.
Yep. Not even just this channel. Espresso-focused content creators have been on the rise over the past few years, and I think they've pretty uniformly encouraged 1:2 / 30 seconds as a starting place for dialing in flavor.
This makes James Hoffmann videos different and better than other coffee channel in RUclips. Please make this survey again, with surveying how people make Manual Brew (like V60 and others), i would be very happy to take the survey. Thank you James
74 year Boomer here. Boomer Shots: Physical changes may be a factor. Boomer shots might be the coffee equivalent of Stretch Waists on Blue Jeans. I understand that the older you get past 60 you start having fewer taste receptors. I believe it. I used to be a super taster and could identify scents and flavors in coffee, spirits, and spices. Now I taste some complexity in my espresso and pour overs, but way less. RE: Weighting Shots. Been there done that. Long experience with espresso has trained my eye. Plus on a lever machine I can set the piston on the shaft to control volume. Love Ristrettos in the early afternoon, regular pulls in the morning. I weight my beans not the liquids. Loved the video!
Another interesting factor may be that the under 18 crowd are learning how to do their shots from their parents who may be skewed by one of the upper generations!
I have noticed exactly the same phenomenon. I used to be able to deconstruct the recipe for things I had tasted with ease, these days I'm lucky if I remember what the name of the ingredient is!
I was delighted to participate in the survey. Data on preferred Flavours and Origins as well as where people buy coffee from would have been also interesting
For the next survey, I am curious to add some questions regarding coffee bean purchasing trends. Big box stores vs small roasters vs home roasting. Maybe some questions regarding roast dates. The ridiculous flavor notes on some the coffee bags.
I agree with this, more info on the coffee being purchased. I feel the current trends would lead to a reveal on more funky processed coffees being done on espresso, along with perhaps popularities with varietals
@@TMDub88 I usually prefer single origin either Brazil/Peru or Ethiopia. I throw in some new ones from time to time( I got my hands on a light roast last time and have been really enjoying it). They go straight in the freezer after they arrive on my doorstep
@@nemi-ru5318 that sparks another question! Coffee storage! Freezer, vacuum, those glass single dose containers, other options. I’m a vacuum sealed container person myself.
You’re such a great communicator! Good questions for future surveys may be: - How many people drink pure espresso versus espresso/milk preparations? - How many respondents use specialty beans versus coffee shop beans versus grocery store beans?
I am one of the people who typically do not weigh the espresso coming out of the machine. My reasons are: 1. I have a low-cost setup (~$100 grinder, Flair Neo with default pressurized portafilter) so I don't feel that my setup is really capable of really dialing in a recipe. 2. The espresso that comes out is the espresso I am going to drink. I'm not tossing out the shot if it took too long or if the weight is off. And for the reasons in [1], I am not really making adjustments to the recipe based on the taste. 3. I do time the shot, and if it is much faster or slower than normal, I will adjust my grinder. But I always use the same mass of coffee and water. Someday I plan to upgrade my setup, though, and I will probably start weighing the output and putting more effort into dialing in my shots.
This is the best use case for a massive RUclips audience imo. Your mass coffee tastings, surveys, and data analysis is something that literally no one else could do except you. Please keep it up 🙏
Tail end boomer (60) and I can definitely say James and the other RUclips espresso content creators have taught me everything I know and influenced my baseline expectations for my shots. Since I enjoy milk based drinks, I admit to concentrating on beautiful shots from a bottomless portafilter more than taste since the milk masks a multitude of sins.
I had difficulty filling out the survey because it assumes that each person only pulls one shot style. I fluctuate between 18 second 1:3 turbos, blooming shots that take a full minute, boomer shots with a medium roast for milk drinks, etc. I use different recipes for different beans, different drinks, and just how I'm feeling that day!
This was a significant flaw in my mind, and it means that we're not really quite looking at data that shows how people make espresso but rather something closer to how they think they should. A better way to have done that would have been to ask about the last shot that you pulled, that would lose a lot of data at the individual level of course, but on a population level would give us a much better idea of how people are actually making espresso (rather than how they think they should).
What makes espresso taste good is a group of impatient strangers having to wait and listen while someone else makes all those crazy noises just for you.
James, this subject, your approach, the visualization of the data, and your delivery...it all brings me an unreasonable amount of joy. Thank you for being you and inviting us into your world. 🙏🏻
I'm one who pulls a longer shot--usually a ~3:1 ratio of coffee output to grounds. You asked why? Largely it's because it gives me more coffee to enjoy! I use a Flair, so reloading it to make a full double shot is a bit time-consuming...and 2x the caffeine is too much for me anyway--it'll give me palpitations! So I make a hearty lungo that I can sip on for a while. And I make a lot of Americanos and Cortados, so similarly it either stretches the volume of the drink more, OR I can play ratios and have a stronger 'coffee flavor' in my Americanos and Cortados by upping the espresso ratio in those drinks without sacrificing overall drink volume too much. Lungo is just an amazing way to enjoy coffee each morning. And the fact that it has a little less of a "bite" is nice too. I compare it to whisky. Neat is a good way to enjoy whisky, but I prefer to add a dash of chilled water to mellow it out! It brings out the flavors. And I think a lungo has more depth of flavor and "time on my tongue" than the *wham-bam* flavor shock of a standard straight shot!
This is my mom. She's been doing a 3:1 topped with whipped cream as a little treat a few hours before she goes to bed, for at least the past 20 years. She enjoys a 2:1, but she prefers having more coffee to drink.
I also use the Flair for mainly Americanos. I just fill the water chamber to the top and send it all. How much coffee do you use? I found 20 grams to be the sweet spot.
@@LordSluggo I actually still just use 18! Tamping was getting messy with 20. I have the Flair 58+. Maybe if I changed baskets I might have better results, but I'm roughly 18 in to ~58-65 out, depending on the freshness of the beans.
I reckon for the flair users 3:1 is a go to ratio. At least for the light roast. I’m riding 17g with ~55g output in ~45seconds. Comandante is the grinder and I’m using spring loaded tamper, with the flair tamper it was always fiddly to tamp an even surface
James, I probably don’t commune enough with your RUclips channel. But I have really enjoyed and benefited greatly with your posts. Love your channel and do regularly drop by to see your new videos in educating us. Love it, I hope you keep doing what you are doing. Thanks 🙏
James I would like to see how many people hand grind vs using electric grinders and see some data analysis split by the type of grinder. Thanks for doing this! Hope it becomes an annual survey!
I answered as a home barista, but spent nearly 10 years working as a professional barista, pulling different shots with different dose ratios depending upon the drink, keeping a close eye on quality, and learning everything I could about coffee, all the while becoming more and more experimental in the drinks I brew at home. However, I settled upon a recipe over the years, and this has become my morning ritual, for now. I love a well made flat-white. I’m very much looking forward to upgrading my set up in the coming years and rediscovering my experimental side.
@@masato-lee i just applied for a job. Knowing a little about coffee brewing and having no problems chatting with people helped me get the job initially, but it took a couple of years of researching different aspects of the industry and honing my skills before I could realistically call myself a professional. It helped that the people I learned from were the best in our small town. Edit: So you know, for the first six months the job was almost entirely customer service, clearing tables, and cleaning - starting at the bottom, so to speak - but it was a fun place to work, so I stayed and worked my way up the chain. If the pay was as better, I’d still be working there. Should have moved to Australia. lol.
@@masato-lee(sorry for the multiple replies. I could only see them after becoming obsessed with their disappearance and looking for my comment in the “recent” section. Sweet Jesus I sometimes hate RUclips’s comment algorithms.)
I have just begun my espresso journey proper. Having purchased a Gaggia Classic, i used google and youtube to gather information on the best possible setup instead of trial and error. This includes 9 bar and pid. I also purchased a Eureka Mignon grinder so all in all i think its not a level playing field for beginners.
On Reddit you can see the number focused recipe trend. People celebrating hitting the 18/36 in 30 sec “perfect shot” it is quite understandable as baking recipes are about the numbers.
It's very funny to me that people act like there's a universal precise correct numeric formula (that happens to hit numbers that are appealing to us given our arbitrary units of measurement and base 10 number system) for something that relies so heavily on the differences in a complex, inconsistent substance like coffee beans. All the more if they make no mention of max pressure or pressure curve. So what that it's 18:36/30 if you ground too coarse or too fine or tamp too little or too much and only hit 5 bar or go to 14 bar and then drop off to nothing because a channel forms from a hard, uneven tamp? You can also see people bragging about how they have a "two decimal point" scale and always measure to exactly 18.00 grams, which should tell you something is off because the gram is not some kind of sacred universal constant; nothing is sacred about hitting exactly 18 grams, and minute water content in your beans can significantly impact how many grams of actual coffee 18 grams of beans translate to. It's particularly absurd because it would make sense only if they were measuring with old-fashioned manual scales using 10, 5 and 3g weights, but the very fact that they have electric scales that measure to the hundredth of a gram means that hitting the exact gram is totally 100% arbitrary.
Super interesting stuff! I'll be joining the home espresso making crowd soon, as the portable Flair kickstarter fit pretty much perfectly for the type of thing that both fits my needs and wants, my kitchen, and my budget. Splurged a bit (for my type of budget, that is) on a Baratza Encore ESP that'll be replacing my trusty Wilfa Svart grinder for pour-over and aeropress brews and taking me into the world of espresso as well. I did work as a barista for a couple of years back in the late 2010s, and while the training I got back then was pretty good, things have changed a lot since then, and I'm looking forward to getting back into espresso, even if it'll most likely be a couple-of-times-a-week type of thing.
Very interesting. Dad is too busy washing and waxing his Nardo Grey Audi to teach his kids how to make espresso, but grandpa, who drives a twelve year old Corolla, is spending time with his grandchildren, teaching them the finer things in life.
Loved this!!! Thank you for doing the hard work on this, it was really interesting. I participated in the survey and it made listening to the results even more fun. For future survey's like this, it would be interesting to know brands for grinders and espresso machines. While it'd be cool to know the models, that data might be far too granular. It might also be fun to see how many users brew the same bag of beans on a consistent basis, vs. those that regularly switch it up (e.g. using Trade or some other subscription that rotates bags.) And lastly, how many people who make espresso at home still go out for coffee and what's the ratio of drinks made at home vs. drinks purchased while out.
Z1presso with a Neo Flex is probably as low as you can get. Which will make a truly delicious cup of espresso. Which Z1presso kinda depends on whether you also want to play around with pour overs and what type of beans you like, look into it!
I had a flair signature + commandante (~$600) for many years. I was able to make a great espresso and I still miss the great texture and body of the espresso I was making with that setup. Now I have a miicoffee apex + DF64 gen ii ($900 overall), also a fantastic setup for the price, it delivers more clarity and fruitiness I was not able to achieve with the previous setup. I have a friend (italian) who regularly visits and always tells me I should go back to my old setup because that was the best espresso he ever had. I personally think both setups are equally good, just different. Hope this helps.
This is great! I'd love to see a repeated survey, and all for sharing more detailed data. Could you put it up as a blog post somewhere rather than a PDF? * What is the roast level preference by age? * What is the roast level preference by age and years of experience? (some kind of heat map would be great) * What is the roast level preference by gear spend? * What is the roast level preference by location? Focusing on ratio makes sense, but I'd like to see more about /taste/. I suspect the world in which people grew is more deterministic than other factors. Data and questions I'd love to see in a feature survey: * What is your interest / feeling about "speciality coffee"? Some likert scale type thing. * Did you spend most of your life in rural, urban, or suburban areas? (Not sure yet how to best ask this yet...) * Where do you typically purchase beans? (local shops, grocery stores, multi-roaster subscriptions, individual roaster subscriptions, etc.) * Did you grow up drinking coffee? (Probably a likert scale too) What I'm really curious about is how people's younger experiences with coffee carry forward. Does early exposure to speciality coffee make you more likely to gravitate towards lighter roasters at all? Is it just a big city urbanite thing? Or do folks who grow up with a "lack of good coffee" end up going down the rabbit hole later in life.
Zoomer espresso! What a lovely concept. As a data scientist and physicist I feel obligated to say that the "zoomer espresso" assessment of shorter shot times should absolutely be qualified by the number of entries. There is a very clear distinction in the resolution of the estimate that should be qualified to the viewer with a statement comparing average brew times between age groups with an uncertainty based on the statistical power of the dataset.
I'd love to see the data broken down by generation instead of generic age range. Zoomers are mostly 12 to 27. They're not only the under 18 and 18-24 groups, but also a chunk of the 25-34 group as well.
Yea my economist brain was absolutely itching throughout. With the Great American Taste Test we got the data and it was nice to be able to double-check some numbers and kinda delve a little. I wish that were the case here. Because there are bound to be some really interesting insights in here to dig out with the right cleaning.
I think it also could be interesting to see the age data adjusted for experience as well. For people with the same number of years of experience as the zoomers, does taste still vary by age? If it does, that could suggest differences in taste processing (I see other comments mentioning that their sense of taste has changed as they age, which could be a factor), or differences in socialized coffee preferences (do older cultural expectations of how coffee "should" taste persist even when picking up espresso as a hobby later in life?)... But that would require actually doing that analysis to find out whether that is the case.
Maybe a survey about home filter coffee brewing would be interesting as well. Some questions about favorite styles of processing, roast level, origin and so on.
My amateur setup: 1. Weigh beans 2. Grind them in my 1Zpresso hand grinder 3. Put the grounds in the portafilter using a funnel and clean the grinder 4. WDT the grounds, tamp, place a very thin metal mesh on top (mostly for cleanliness) 5. Put the portafilter in the machine and make espresso It's a pretty easy setup for a beginner and still makes great espresso. The biggest factors are grind size, even tamping and bean freshness. In that order of importance
I think its pretty obvious why the ratio has changed. I assume the people that responded are your followers and that is your generally recommended ratio in most videos where you pull espresso. It is the very reason I do it myself. You create the "fashion" James. You seem to have no idea how much influence you have in the coffee world bud. Grateful for everything you've done to grow my coffee obsession.
Lance is pushing longer shots pretty hard on his channel and I think his reasoning makes perfect sense. Yes, equipment is better now. But there is still subpar equipment out there, and coarser grounds extract way more evenly. Similarly, when you have equipment that is quite good, favorable extraction dynamics still play in your advantage even if you're losing body. I never drink anything at 1:2. Most shots in fact are more in the direction of 1:4 or 1:5 (and I lengthen that with fresh water afterwards still) and this just tastes so amazing that I never have the desire to go down
makes sense for median light and light roasts as you need more water flow to extract more but for really dark Italian style espresso that would be a terrible idea
@@brighthao well what I give will be hard to replicate because I'm on a la pavoni which is a whole different beast but: I do single dose (9g) only puck prep blind shaker and pull until 36g in the cup, light steam preinfusion then add 10-25g of filtered water to the shot if it tastes muddy this is on quite coarse setting so it only takes like 20 sec to get there, but I'm also not reaching 9 bars in the manual pull so it could be best to get it even quicker on your machine the general theory of dialing this in (regardless of machine) is: (0) start with a really fine setting (1) do a shot like that, with added water (2) observe the ratio tasting overextracted at that setting (3)move coarser until taste is almost good (4)change yield to optimize according to sour->sweet->bitter this is a reverse volcano climb, if you're into the deep lore. Results are pretty fantastic
@@brighthao I should note I fangirl lance, and this is very much informed from his "HOW I BREW TASTY COFFEE: My Espresso Obsession Observed" and other content he's done
As a "home barista" I completely agree with you on your reasoning towards the ratios in HB vs. Coffee professional. In Germany, good coffe from local specialty roasters often costs more than 15€ per 250g bag of coffee. I would say I have developed quite a good compass for what I like, but I'll have to start with something I know will sort of work. I I can get 15 shots from by bag, each shot is 1€ in coffe wholesale price alone....
I'd love to get an analysis including the coffee processing type as it would definitely have a impact on the taste profile and thus on the brewing method! For instance, I'm more and more enjoying natural processed coffee and I pull those shots longer than washed ones because of the acidity levels. That aside, thanks Mr. Hoffmann and team, that was highly interesting!
Knowing about it now, I'm surprised I only learned about other processing methods recently when I started roasting my own beans. I bet it'll be a much hotter topic in five to ten years, the same way most of the coffee world used to be dark roast or bust but now there's way more roast variety with medium prevailing in America and the UK.
I'm 55 and have been making good coffee for 10 years. Aeropress for Americano and Flair for espresso. I can't think of better espresso at home without spending more money. But, as you once said, if you are not going to take making espresso as a hobby, just go to the corner coffee shop and get one. Good video!
As someone who's been making espresso for 2 or 3 years, atm, I weigh my coffee in, but not out, because my espresso cups are so small that I "know" how much is coming out. Aka I used to weigh the output, and not anymore, to make my life easier. If you use enough of the same coffee, if you find the right scoop, you could also do without weighing the coffee because you'd know closely enough how much you're putting in. Repeated enough, the human eye is very good at estimating these things.
you will be incorrect because the crema takes up volume and is different between beans and over time. 2 grams over or nder makes a big difference on taste. By weighing it you at least have an accurate benchmark for your recipe to taste.
I love these kind of videos. I participated in this survey, I'm from France. I didn't know how to answer one because I am currently a home barista but I was a barista in the past and I currently work in a coffee shop in a different position. So maybe it could have been good to add a category: working in the coffee business but not a barista. All and all I loved participating in this and seeing the results in the video!
I don't know what is worse, diner coffee or college vending machine coffee. But surprisingly, vending machine coffee wasn't bad. Or it could have simply been the despiration of a college student for cafeine.
You said that weighing your espresso makes a difference, and "it's so helpful" I know that you have your reasons, but why is that so helpful. I pull the shot until I get to a mark on my espresso cups and estimate the time and look at the crema coming out to tell if I'm getting a good extraction... how much more information is weighing the espresso shot telling my and what would that information tell me to do differently? I'm really curious and interested in this subject! Thank you so must for making and posting this video. P.S. I hope I will the scale, if anything just to try it out.
The "amount" of espresso is different for the same mark (the same volume) depending on what roast you use and how you grind, so e.g. 2:1 ratio might be above your mark for one coffee and below it for another one depending on those variables (roast, grinder setting, how old it is). More importantly, think of weighting the final cup as setting a virtual mark in your cup which you can move up and down as you wish for the same amount of coffee making it more or less "liquidy" (e.g. ristretto vs normal espresso). It just becomes a variable you can play with to change the taste. Finally, I have different cups (I think I have five or six with different shapes) but I can make the same coffee.
I dont weigh output, because I completely empty my Flair Signature on every shot and only play with the other variables, with the idea that pushing the same amount of water through the same amount of coffee with the same grind size of the same batch yields consistent results, which for me it does. This is also the recommended workflow from Flair for their non-58 brewers and it has worked well enough for me to not deviate. As a side note, my output is always super, super close to 40g (I do weigh it occasionally) so thats the yield I entered for this survey. I wouldnt be surprised if you can find a correlation between manual lever users and the use of scales in you data!
This is the way, I was really surprised there wasn't more lever machine users in the survey, I would also like to see shot lengths and ratios by style of machine, as I find my shots are much tastier on the flair when pulled longer, I put in 15g of coffee to 40g of liquid out in about 35-40 seconds
Same, I was going to comment this! I also have a Flair Signature and always fill up the brew chamber all the way with water and always push all the water out, partly because the portafilter and brew chamber are so small (my dose is only 16g, which is about the max I can consistently physically fit, as the volume varies from coffee to coffee). I used to weigh the output and cut the shot early so I'd be at a 1:2 ratio, but then I stopped cutting the shot early just to see what would happen, and didn't notice any difference in taste (it always fell between a 1:2 1:2.5 ratio out anyway, like you've found), so eventually I stopped weighing. I use different coffees, but find the grind pretty consistent, and rarely have to make any significant grind adjustments when dialing in on my Niche. I was also curious if some of the outlier groups in the numbers were disproportionately made up of Flair/manual lever users!
This is all very good information! I feel a good question to have asked is if people are using pre-ground coffee, or if they are grinding it at home. Personally, I have been using pre-ground coffee since it got difficult for me to use my manual grinder (conical ceramic burr, $10 or less for the grinder). My brewing style did change with that choice. My current coffee selection is a dark roast and comes in a pre-ground brick for $4-5... and if you don't want it to taste like engine degreaser I recommend approximately 14g of coffee for about 25 to 30 seconds. You should be able to fill a 3.5oz espresso cup with it. Adding water to double the volume (after brewing adding both to a larger cup or mug) makes it taste even better.
15:45 100% accurate. Since I had my son 3 years ago my coffee standards have gone way down to the point now with my second son I (embarassing to admit to my family let alone a coffee channel audience) just put preground beans in a Pyrex and add boiling water
Definitely we want more survey! Interesting would be for pour over too. A small comment about the cleaning/bad data: make the questions more clear. I don’t consider myself with understanding problems and had to read some questions a few times to understand exactly the way you want the answer. Cheers Daddy! You and your team rock 🙌🏻
Honestly I think you're giving pro barista's too much credit when it comes to ability. I rarely find a café that produces truly excellent shots...and I seek out and try many.
I work at a cafe in the UK and I can tell you there's rarely the time or expertise in prepping, tasting and dialing in a great espresso in a cafe setting. Not only do we regularly need to bash out multiple drinks at a time for impatient and ill-informed customers, but the overwhelming majority of those drinks are not espresso. I'm the only person on the team of 9 staff who doesn't drink coffee with milk as their main drink, and that's pretty representative of the customers. Sad, but that's the state of things.
That is absolutely true but I'd also like to think that professionals who care enough about their craft to end up filling out a James Hoffmann survey would be at least a cut above the college-age baristas who are there because nowhere else would hire them and whose coffee knowledge begins and ends at "press the grind button on the grinder, put some grinds in the basket thingy, tamp down, put the basket in the machine and press the shot button. Steam milk until the pitcher is uncomfortable to hold."
@@sinicolvalley6185You don't need a scale or fancy equipment or even wdt/rdt (maybe some form of blind shaker or at least sifter, though) to pull good espresso. You can make good espresso fast. It just takes a lot more skill. I'd say the only part of a typical home barista setup that has a measurable positive impact that would still be relevant in a coffeeshop but gets dropped is spme form of wdt, but if you use a sifter you get a lot of the benefit anyway with minimal efficiency loss. Also obviously flavour nuance is gone at the point you're serving a cup of ice, vanilla syrup and a single ounce of espresso, but I think suggesting that espresso quality does not matter for anything other than pure espresso is missing the mark substantially. That is not to say quality is even important for the vast majority of customers, but it's important for regulars and the few percent who have some kind of discerning taste, and it's also feasible.
Exactly. Very few coffee shops actually produce a flavorful shot that doesn't taste like burnt asphalt. I just got my first "real" hand grinder and it produced a far more flavorful French press coffee than most coffee shop espressos in my area
I was so excited to see these results, yes please more future surveys! I can’t believe this was a 25 minute video - this went by in a flash. I would gladly watch an hour of your thoughts on the data! Much peace, and happy brewing! ✌️😌✨
Actually you can dial in your coffee at home as an amateur as well, at least that's what I do. The only difference is that the process takes days, as I drink 1 or 2 espressos per day and to not to waste I drink the "bad ones" too (which are still very decent 90% of the time for the first try) so I always adjust the grinder right away after an attempt, and then try to remember the amount for the next pull.
You can try increasing extraction time to like 35 or even 45 if it's sour. After 30s, I switch out the cup every 5 sec and see how each of them taste. And then mix them together. That way, you don't have to waste anything. Lance Hedrick has a good video on this.
This is one of my favorite videos of yours to date! I would love to see a follow up video where you brew the “world’s most average espresso shot”. In other words, pick the most common roast level, dose, brew ratio, burr set, and equipment from the most common prices range. Then talk about some common pitfalls that espresso makers might be falling victim to
Espresso-making is kind of like a mathematical "np-complete problem" - finding the perfect espresso would take nearly infinite time, but its fully possible to find a good enough solution in an acceptable timeframe.
As a home brewer I will also optimize for flavor and play around with brew times, especially if I like the coffee and plan on buying it again. I do this over the life of the bag sometimes and take notes. What you didn't take into account was that the preference among home brewers was a medium roast and after years of home experimentation I think medium roasts generally taste best around that 30 second brew time. Whereas I imagine the pros are messing around with a much wider array of roast profiles and origins.
And which VPN service has servers in North Korea? That makes zero sense. It is far more likely that somebody simply lied. Actual North Koreans with free access to the Internet, those folks are likely using a. VPN server, which would mask their true location.
I did have the thought earlier today, whilst making my morning coffee, that I should try to use a scale for measuring my coffee - Just a passing thought which is now CRAZY as you mentioned the lack of people not measuring their shots. I honestly thought it would be significantly higher. Better get one of those scales! Can you please share a link to some scales you would recommend for a home barista? Thanks again James, love the content and I always walk away thinking more about my coffee experince, how to make it better, and fine tuning to make the best cup possible.
First things first, let me introduce myself. I am someone who is enthusiastic about data. I’ve been playing with data for about two years. Not gonna lie, the way James tells a story is like a data analyst. I felt like I was in a meeting, lol-what a great presentation! A little input on the pie chart: for comparing more than four categories, in my opinion, it’s better to use a bar chart in this case. I hope I can contribute to help analyze the data for the next survey, lol. It was really helpful and informative. Thank you all!
Hi James, Your RUclips videos have been incredibly helpful in my coffee journey. Thank you for sharing your expertise! I have a quick question about espresso extraction: Should the initial infusion time be included in or added to the standard 30-second extraction window? Your insights are greatly appreciated. Thanks for elevating the coffee community!
@10:30 Maybe I'm confused, but if we all have better equipment (i.e. extract more good flavour/dose) then we can pull a longer shot without loosing taste.
I was thinking bitterness/astringency & body/weight. With better equipment, especially grinders, and better puck prep, we can extract more from a puck before being overwhelmed by bad flavors. And since we can extract more of the good flavors, a slightly higher ratio will give a similar concentration of enjoyable flavors.
I personally pull way longer shots for specialty lighter roasts. My equipment (BBE and Flair Pro 2 where brew temp tends to lack) just cannot extract enough with ratios near 2. It may end up a bit more diluted but I can't figure out how else to avoid brewing liquid sour candy
Homebrewer here: I just can't optimize for taste every single day. I make 2-3 double esspresso a day (17.5g - 25 sec). The coffee will I buy 250g and it will make me 14-15 coffees. But I do notice that after a couple of days my beans taste less tasty? I am not currently say my beans are 4 days old I need less (or more water) to make a same tasty shot. It's still way better then my old Nesspresso setup.
It definitely changes, if your recipe is based on when you first open it, you’re going to have to change it after a few days. You have to work harder to extract when they haven’t fully degassed, so my guess would be your recipe starts to over-extract once the beans have been rested for a few days (so try slightly increased grind size or slightly cooler water faster draw etc whatever your preference for dialing in is)
I usually buy coffee in zipper bags and aroma valve (yes I've seen coffee without these). Also I put an additional plastic bag over my bag of coffee, in case the zipper doesnt seal 100%. Sometimes the extraction behavior changes over time. If you realize it is running faster after couple of days you can try to do slight adjustments in the amount of powder you are using instead of changing grinding degree.
@@CH-yp5byI don't think his trouble is oxidation. I think the first commenter was right, since he said he needs to pull weaker shots to get the same taste as time goes on. The sweet spot for beans is commonly said to be around one to two weeks after they are roasted, as they need time to degas and dehydrate (the purpose of the little valve roasters put on their bags). You can see this in volume vs mass. As soon as they are roasted, a tablespoon of beans may weigh 14 grams; After degassing for two or three days, you can expect closer to 10, because they actually lose mass from the carbon and water they expel. Only after they are fully degassed, and if they are exposed to air, dp they begin to oxidize, which will actually slowly _increase_ mass over time. Since we dose by mass, an 18g dose of beans that haven't been allowed to air out are going to have more carbon oxides and water relative to volatiles than 18g that have degassed, so the shot pulled will be weaker. So most likely what is happening is his roaster (or he himself!) doesn't degas before packaging, so he's actually getting extremely freshly-roasted beans which still need to degas to give optimal results- He's just interpreting that as the beans intensifying after a few days (actually closer to, say, evaporating the moisture out of juice to make it stronger), and the part of the formula he's modifying to compensate is shot length/water ratio rather than one of the number of other variables that can affect extraction.
Thank you. Always informative and learning from you and the rest of the community. Oops to say I don't weigh my liquid coffee ☕ here in Hong Kong. Looking forward to doing that next step.
Really great video! As a data nerd it's too bad the data won't be published as I think this is a rather unique dataset in its size and demographic. Though the analysis presented was super interesting and as always very well done!
Next time you should put in an option to talk about if the equipment is second hand. I have a gaggia classic and a mazzer super jolly and I've paid less than £300 for the whole set-up. If I were to put the retail value into your survey that would be over a grand! I've not personally spent that much but it's not as helpful if you're trying to deduce the kind of machine I'm using from that question.
I completely agree. What i paid for my setup was a fraction of what its retail cost was. I paid £343 for my Cimbali Junior D1, which retailed for about £3000. Completely skewing the data.
True. My espresso experience started when I got a $40 automatic on Facebook marketplace with built in grinder. The thing cost new $1500 back in 2015. That would have been under $200 equipment.
A lot of stuff on the survey is subject to edge cases. I may be biased because I fit the category and it seems like other people took a different approach since pros apparently reported more experience than home baristas across the board, but I suspect the most common edge cases are people who used to be professional but aren't anymore, or had substantial experience at home before becoming a professional. One tact (which I took) is to self-report as whatever you are currently, and the other (which I suspect was more common) is to say you _are_ a pro if _you have ever been a pro._ It can be much better money than most people think, but my observation has been that most baristas last no more than a year, yet become hooked on espresso during that time. Similarly, when you buy secpndhand or discounted equipment, you have to determine whether to list what you paid or what you would have paid, and that opens the can of worms that if you bought something new for, say, $500 six years ago and you could buy it new for $200 or $800 today, $500 may not be the "right" answer. I think it may be important for the survey to be clear on whether what it is polling and reporting is _how much somebody paid_ for their setup, or _how much their setup is worth today._ I saw people commenting about other edge cases during the survey, as well.
The improvement factor is James Hoffman. You have single handedly improved the knowledge and understanding of the masses all over the world and I thank you whole heartedly from Pakistan!
If you have all the equipment you can experiment to see what you actually like the best. That is definitely the orthodox coffeeshop doubleshot, though.
15:07 “And I’m definitely reading too much into this, but I think it’s fun.” … that one sentence sums up everything about this whole channel and I’m here for it. 😂😂
Hi James, as much as I enjoy your videos I have to admit that as a 72 year old with a cheap ( £ 20'ish ) hand grinder and a DeLonghi dedica that I have never weighed, timed or measured any part of my espresso making. I try different brands and roasts sometimes ground, even from Aldi and just keep plugging away judging the amount in my scoop by eye before loading the portafilter. It might not even be as good as average espresso but it's 100 times better than instant. Thanks for your interesting videos.
Loved the video and the analysis. Especially as the graphs looked so much like academic graphs! One thing that James noted and came to mind to me The 1:2 ratio and 30 seconds seems very round numbers.
I spent years reading up and watching videos like these on how to make proper espresso and get all particular and strive for some perfect shot etc...after 20 years, it's just not worth it. The difference between an easily pulled good shot of espresso and the "perfect" shot that social media convinces everyone is so great is barely there. They can look best for social media videos coming out of a bottomless portafilter, but they do not in fact taste any better than something close enough. These so-called perfect shots are a technicality and also a means of convincing people to keep spending thousands on more and more equipment. The actual taste and experience of drinking them is barely different if at all, and once you let a perfect shot cool a few seconds too long in the cup, any difference in taste vanishes anyway. If you're just wanting to make really nice espresso at home, get a decent entry level machine that uses proper baskets, an entry level grinder that will just about grind well enough for decent proper espresso machines (I got my latest grinder for £125 a couple of years ago) and just gradually hone your grind size and figure out your tamping or distribution method until it pulls roughly evenly and tastes good. That's it. Some consistency in what you do, sure, but there's no need at all to try and study to become some sort of coffee scientist. You are NOT going to get anything more worthwhile from spending thousands of pounds and fussing endlessly over the most ridiculous minute technicalities, studying everything like it's a PhD. It's nonsense. So long as you're pulling an even shot that tastes good, that's literally all there is to do. I've been to the finest cafes in Italy where they have ten grand machines and the most experienced and fussy baristas. The espresso usually doesn't actually taste any better than what I get from my £250 machine at home where I don't even bother weighing doses, I just got used to eyeballing it. Sometimes I've noticed a slightly channelled shot that tastes either just as good or even better than something I thought was perfectly pulled. In fact, it's not uncommon for espresso from such fancy places to sometimes even taste plain bad! I can't even count the number of times I've been served sour shots from ten grand machines and the fussiest baristas. All that fuss for nothing. Espresso equipment becomes just like selling golf equipment to millionaires, it's pretty much all complete nonsense beyond a certain basic point, or if there is a tiny improvement with something then it's just not worth it at all. The only reason to spend thousands on espresso gear is if you actually have a business and need to make a lot of espresso all day long, so need a much bigger machine that's built like a tank and can be plumbed in.
Since I lost my job nearly 4 years ago, and have had a terrible time finding new work, I’ve spent a good amount of time getting into coffee. Though without work, my expense on things like a good grinder, scales, has been tough to justify. Use a scoop, flatten it out, get my water by volume, do what I need to do. I think I’ve had decent coffee this way, but I’d love to have a good scale and do it better. Gonna enter, wish me luck.
James you are a pioneer in this industry. Love the content. With respect to the weighing of liquid out metric, the fact that 85% of users weigh the liquid out but there are little to no solutions available "built in" to espresso machines in the market today is shocking to me. We should have synergistic bean weight, ground coffee weight, and brew wait as ubiquitous capabilities vs. having to buy multiple Acaia Lunar scales and make it happen ourselves!
One week, a month I buy a fancy bag, and for that week I am a fancy man. (Alas, not half as fancy as James). I brew the same coffee the other 3 weeks out of 4. Love this video. I need this nerdery.
I'm a data analyst, and this was a really lovely presentation of data and some really good storytelling. Would have liked to see some statistical significance calculations (ANOVA will show significance of multiple means) which would have been interesting. I agree that the concentration in the non-professional espresso brew heatmap indicates a cognitive heuristic - 'this is tried and tested, and I've not no time or money to play about with it'.
4:40 - I wonder how much of this is reporting bias to avoid the extremes. I immediately thought of the US Census statistics that (don't quote me on this) but something like 85% of Americans self-report as "middle class". Basically meaning that everyone tends to think of themselves and their behaviors as somewhat average.
I’m using a manual lever machine and the reason I towards lungo side downs to “clean and easy maintenance”. If you’re using a lever machine there’s a back flow when you pulling up the lever to terminate extraction. It obviously causes puck distruption which requires an extra work for cleaning and happens to leave possible coffee powder residuals found in group head. So, instead of pulling up the lever at the end of extraction, I normally put a shot glass away and place some tray to let the leftover drip. 10:47
Thank you James for all your info and good humor, since watching you the quality of our coffee is so much better and the joy of making it 100% more. Would love to get a scale since I am one of the people who doesn't weight the liquid. Would be wonderful! and Thanks again for all your support
I have one of these, too. I love it and it makes a decent shot if you feed it with a decent capsule or decent coffee in the portafilter. Once in a while I then enjoy a prof-made shot in town. An expensive espresso machine would be overkill for me.
Good stuff! I change the weight (and hence, the volume of ground coffee) based how the coffee will grind. e.g. using an 18g VST basket, I found my specialty coffee wasn't anywhere near filling the basket at 18g and the puck had too much head-room so we made 20g/40g-out shots. However for "bridge coffee" (coffee I buy while I'm waiting for my specialty order) I just go to Costco and get Kirkland Columbia Supremo medium-ish tending towards dark coffee. This coffee fills the 18g basket better but shorter pulls alleviate the otherwise bitter aftertaste to make a very acceptable shot with great texture. Bonus, it's cheap enough I can make as many shots as I need to dial it in. The grinder has a timer which gives pretty consistent weight for a given coffee.
I am really enjoying all your videos, but there are one tiny point missing out. Water, i use reverse osmose water in my espresso brewer, Rancilio cheapest one for a couple of years, and a Mahlkönig vario grinder. Here in sweden i am vey pleased, that water sommeliers are a growing group, wich i am very pleased with. If you use distilled water ocr filtered water, it flows much more easy. You kan test that with a normal flowersprayer, normal and distilled, there are a big difference in power you vill need to spray....
I love data as much as I love coffee. The total of the enjoyment from two is much greater than their sum. A big thankyou James for a good dose of both.
Such great data. As a home roaster and home barista. I think economy explains a lot. In my case it’s economy of beans versus economy of cost. I always look for the golden ratio. I make more milk drinks if the ratio is off until it is dialed 8n, then I make more Americanos. 😅. Not scientific. I didn’t get the survey, but I am brewing on a 1000 dollar machine and a 1000 dollar grinder. I am not subject to upgraditis. This is my 4th single boiler and the most I’ve spent. I’d did splurge on the Oro xl, upgrading* from a Vario W. I am 55 this year. I am the only coffee drinker in my home and I like darker roasts.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Kim Jong-un here. Thanks for mentioning my contribution.
I was about to say, now the N. Korean govt is now hounding down who did it.
It’s refreshing to see a video on RUclips in which data analysis has been done properly and reported objectively. Kudos to all involved.
My dad has made espresso for 10 years, he has a really great setup with a mazzer grinder and a rocket giotto evoluzione r. I have just gotten into espresso in the last year. He made fun of me when i used a scale to measure coffee input/output, and said he had never used that. When i got home to my dad and used his machine his grinder timer was set for 13 grams in his 18 gram basket, he ground to coarse and the ratio was of course way off. He had also never backflushed his machine because he thought the basket coudn't come off... I have now dailed in his grinder, cleaned his machine, and have used the last few presents over the year to get him to make better espresso. He has returned the favour and gotten me a Rocket Fausto Chrome for my 23 birthday, so im very happy:))
Well... The thing you need to understand is we all have different preferences and palettes. You go to a busy Italian Cafe in Italy and they do not do anything like the suggested tips (in most cases).
So long as your dad is happy with his drink then all is good. Cheers. 😊
@@nostro1001 Never cleaned tho omg, I can barely stomach the thought of what the grime build up must have been like haha
@@WayAlpha101 ya well... He could clean it every now and then, even if it's to prolong the machine, rather than enjoy the coffee more. 😂
@@nostro1001 I could argue a bit. If you don't know what is good, then your average shot might be the best possible, you just haven't tried better one. That was my mistake for few years, my ratio was horrible, but when I've gradually increased it I've noticed the difference for every 1g added. It was not a matter of taste, it's was a lack of knowledge how to make it way better.
That is so great! What a lovely hobby to share.
I swear I could watch you make a 40 minute video about the best way to set a coffee mug on a table and still be completely enthralled.
Yep me too!
not me i struggle to watch most of the vids
I use flat bottomed mugs, with optimal stability, that will not tip over. Thick ceramic walls, button to keep the coffee warm.
@@dearheart2 you shouldn’t use Flat bottom mugs as the crema can get stuck in the corners you should use rounded bottom
@@roberthardy5171flat outside, rounded inside?
Hey! I’m in this video! (At least 0.0025% of it)
That percentage seemed a bit high. 😂
@@9jang True it’s only napkin maths ahah
(1/39425)*100 = 0.002536461636018
Are you the North Korean?
@@dogjennings1171 👀🚀
Same!
Hello and thank you so much for this (and all the other videos)!
Having 15 years of professional experience as a barista, I think that we are seeing slightly longer shots being pulled because:
1. Needle Distribution Techniques (and better espresso puck preparation in general). We have become better at getting more homogenous extractions, so we can get more of the good stuff (and less of the "bad").
2. The above, in combination with better Grinders, makes us more efficient in extracting the coffees nicely. So, slightly longer shots to actually get a balanced espresso, with rich taste and body. Yay!
Back in the days (around 2015), we were experiencing more chanelling and more uneven saturations (and extractions), so we needed slightly shorter ratios to compensate for the not very desired flavours.
Thanks for your time! Have a great day y'all!
The mere fact that someone has communicated with James Hoffman about their espresso makes it above average espresso. Like the uncertainty principle, truly average coffee only exists in its unmeasured state.
It's like a Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The mere fact of measuring messes with the system. he asked and only people that feel inclined to answer have a skewed answer compared to someone on the street. The data is always wiggled in some way.
7:15, "what it would be to live in a world where this was the average." - I feel like he's giving something of a nod to your sentiments here, but what you wrote remains a helpful comment/footnote to the video. Cheers
Can we give kudos to the one person from North Korea, who thought that Coffee was important enough to responde to James Hoffmann? Thats dedication!
@@sachaAlexor maybe they’re not really from NK 😮
@@xyzpdq1122 Or maybe they work in the British Embassy there, or the Embassy of one of the other countries that has one there? USA doesn't.
I think the missed question is, "When you make an adjustment for new beans, which variable are you most likely to adjust first?" Grind Setting, Temp, Ratio, Etc.
It honestly depends on the beans. If ive been working through a dark roast but switch to a medium, then I obviously want to dial it back to a more medium-fine grind but if im going from medium to another medium then I'll leave it untouched until ive made my first cup then decide if it needs dialling in based on the flavour of the cup.
Brew time is always 2mins when working with an aeropress. although I'll normally give new beans an extra 30-60 seconds after Ive tried the first cup to see how that alters the flavour profile. I have had some amazing coffees by leaving it for an extra 30-60s but it really depends on the beans.
It's funny because I find myself changing Dose ad a variable more often that before.
A factor that also may impact these results is that the people being surveyed are probably all familiar with this channel. Much of their espresso routine may be impacted by the information you've offered on this channel. If the survey also included a lot of people who are not tuned into this channel, I expect the results could be different.
Agreed - thanks to James' videos, I changed out both brewer and grinder.
I completely agree. Everything I know about brewing espresso I learned from James. I suspect this is true for many of us.
Yep. Not even just this channel. Espresso-focused content creators have been on the rise over the past few years, and I think they've pretty uniformly encouraged 1:2 / 30 seconds as a starting place for dialing in flavor.
This was my instant thought as well. This isn't 30k espresso makers, this is 30k espresso makers who value James' opinion.
Fully agree. My ratios are 18 in, 36 out and around 30 second brew time because that what James has said or implied in other vidoes!
This makes James Hoffmann videos different and better than other coffee channel in RUclips. Please make this survey again, with surveying how people make Manual Brew (like V60 and others), i would be very happy to take the survey. Thank you James
74 year Boomer here. Boomer Shots: Physical changes may be a factor. Boomer shots might be the coffee equivalent of Stretch Waists on Blue Jeans. I understand that the older you get past 60 you start having fewer taste receptors. I believe it. I used to be a super taster and could identify scents and flavors in coffee, spirits, and spices. Now I taste some complexity in my espresso and pour overs, but way less. RE: Weighting Shots. Been there done that. Long experience with espresso has trained my eye. Plus on a lever machine I can set the piston on the shaft to control volume. Love Ristrettos in the early afternoon, regular pulls in the morning. I weight my beans not the liquids. Loved the video!
Up your pourover ratio to like 1:10
Another interesting factor may be that the under 18 crowd are learning how to do their shots from their parents who may be skewed by one of the upper generations!
I have noticed exactly the same phenomenon. I used to be able to deconstruct the recipe for things I had tasted with ease, these days I'm lucky if I remember what the name of the ingredient is!
My wife‘s grandma was able to pour out exactly 100.0 g of flour without looking at the scales, so yeah, I believe the point about trained eyes.
@@spookyfm4879 density varies though, so likely not accurate if she changed flour type, like to typo 00
I was delighted to participate in the survey. Data on preferred Flavours and Origins as well as where people buy coffee from would have been also interesting
For the next survey, I am curious to add some questions regarding coffee bean purchasing trends. Big box stores vs small roasters vs home roasting. Maybe some questions regarding roast dates. The ridiculous flavor notes on some the coffee bags.
May I add: mixed or single origin, and maybe some general regions for those.
I agree with this, more info on the coffee being purchased. I feel the current trends would lead to a reveal on more funky processed coffees being done on espresso, along with perhaps popularities with varietals
@@nemi-ru5318 I like it! I’m curious what others use regularly. For espresso, I roast myself (behmor) and typically blend two coffees.
@@TMDub88 I usually prefer single origin either Brazil/Peru or Ethiopia. I throw in some new ones from time to time( I got my hands on a light roast last time and have been really enjoying it). They go straight in the freezer after they arrive on my doorstep
@@nemi-ru5318 that sparks another question! Coffee storage! Freezer, vacuum, those glass single dose containers, other options. I’m a vacuum sealed container person myself.
You’re such a great communicator! Good questions for future surveys may be:
- How many people drink pure espresso versus espresso/milk preparations?
- How many respondents use specialty beans versus coffee shop beans versus grocery store beans?
I'd love to see how Kim Jong Un says he prefers his espresso
Aw. You beat me to the joke 😂
First, you’d have to look at which espresso machines were popular in the 1950s.
decaffed
He's the Unicorn Frappuccino kind of guy
made with a very restrictive portafilter and stirred with a firm hand
I am one of the people who typically do not weigh the espresso coming out of the machine. My reasons are:
1. I have a low-cost setup (~$100 grinder, Flair Neo with default pressurized portafilter) so I don't feel that my setup is really capable of really dialing in a recipe.
2. The espresso that comes out is the espresso I am going to drink. I'm not tossing out the shot if it took too long or if the weight is off. And for the reasons in [1], I am not really making adjustments to the recipe based on the taste.
3. I do time the shot, and if it is much faster or slower than normal, I will adjust my grinder. But I always use the same mass of coffee and water.
Someday I plan to upgrade my setup, though, and I will probably start weighing the output and putting more effort into dialing in my shots.
Boy oh boy! I am one of those 184 youngsters, and the times I have been to coffee festivals - they are surprised as much as you are, James!
Hey me too 👊
Hi fellow kids
eyy im also one of them
Im looking every Video of James but i couldnt participate the survey because i dont own an espresso machine
how do you do fellow kids!
This is the best use case for a massive RUclips audience imo. Your mass coffee tastings, surveys, and data analysis is something that literally no one else could do except you. Please keep it up 🙏
Tail end boomer (60) and I can definitely say James and the other RUclips espresso content creators have taught me everything I know and influenced my baseline expectations for my shots. Since I enjoy milk based drinks, I admit to concentrating on beautiful shots from a bottomless portafilter more than taste since the milk masks a multitude of sins.
Lol, good, not just me then!
I had difficulty filling out the survey because it assumes that each person only pulls one shot style. I fluctuate between 18 second 1:3 turbos, blooming shots that take a full minute, boomer shots with a medium roast for milk drinks, etc. I use different recipes for different beans, different drinks, and just how I'm feeling that day!
This was a significant flaw in my mind, and it means that we're not really quite looking at data that shows how people make espresso but rather something closer to how they think they should. A better way to have done that would have been to ask about the last shot that you pulled, that would lose a lot of data at the individual level of course, but on a population level would give us a much better idea of how people are actually making espresso (rather than how they think they should).
What makes espresso taste good is a group of impatient strangers having to wait and listen while someone else makes all those crazy noises just for you.
Kakopia 😂
Based
James, this subject, your approach, the visualization of the data, and your delivery...it all brings me an unreasonable amount of joy. Thank you for being you and inviting us into your world. 🙏🏻
I'm one who pulls a longer shot--usually a ~3:1 ratio of coffee output to grounds. You asked why? Largely it's because it gives me more coffee to enjoy! I use a Flair, so reloading it to make a full double shot is a bit time-consuming...and 2x the caffeine is too much for me anyway--it'll give me palpitations! So I make a hearty lungo that I can sip on for a while. And I make a lot of Americanos and Cortados, so similarly it either stretches the volume of the drink more, OR I can play ratios and have a stronger 'coffee flavor' in my Americanos and Cortados by upping the espresso ratio in those drinks without sacrificing overall drink volume too much.
Lungo is just an amazing way to enjoy coffee each morning. And the fact that it has a little less of a "bite" is nice too. I compare it to whisky. Neat is a good way to enjoy whisky, but I prefer to add a dash of chilled water to mellow it out! It brings out the flavors. And I think a lungo has more depth of flavor and "time on my tongue" than the *wham-bam* flavor shock of a standard straight shot!
Yeah, agreed here tbh.
This is my mom. She's been doing a 3:1 topped with whipped cream as a little treat a few hours before she goes to bed, for at least the past 20 years. She enjoys a 2:1, but she prefers having more coffee to drink.
I also use the Flair for mainly Americanos. I just fill the water chamber to the top and send it all. How much coffee do you use? I found 20 grams to be the sweet spot.
@@LordSluggo I actually still just use 18! Tamping was getting messy with 20. I have the Flair 58+. Maybe if I changed baskets I might have better results, but I'm roughly 18 in to ~58-65 out, depending on the freshness of the beans.
I reckon for the flair users 3:1 is a go to ratio. At least for the light roast. I’m riding 17g with ~55g output in ~45seconds. Comandante is the grinder and I’m using spring loaded tamper, with the flair tamper it was always fiddly to tamp an even surface
James, I probably don’t commune enough with your RUclips channel. But I have really enjoyed and benefited greatly with your posts. Love your channel and do regularly drop by to see your new videos in educating us. Love it, I hope you keep doing what you are doing. Thanks 🙏
James I would like to see how many people hand grind vs using electric grinders and see some data analysis split by the type of grinder. Thanks for doing this! Hope it becomes an annual survey!
I answered as a home barista, but spent nearly 10 years working as a professional barista, pulling different shots with different dose ratios depending upon the drink, keeping a close eye on quality, and learning everything I could about coffee, all the while becoming more and more experimental in the drinks I brew at home. However, I settled upon a recipe over the years, and this has become my morning ritual, for now. I love a well made flat-white.
I’m very much looking forward to upgrading my set up in the coming years and rediscovering my experimental side.
Nice. How did you start as a professional barista?
@@masato-lee i just applied for a job. Knowing a little about coffee brewing and having no problems chatting with people helped me get the job initially, but it took a couple of years of researching different aspects of the industry and honing my skills before I could realistically call myself a professional. It helped that the people I learned from were the best in our small town.
Edit: So you know, for the first six months the job was almost entirely customer service, clearing tables, and cleaning - starting at the bottom, so to speak - but it was a fun place to work, so I stayed and worked my way up the chain. If the pay was as better, I’d still be working there. Should have moved to Australia. lol.
@@masato-lee(sorry for the multiple replies. I could only see them after becoming obsessed with their disappearance and looking for my comment in the “recent” section. Sweet Jesus I sometimes hate RUclips’s comment algorithms.)
I have just begun my espresso journey proper. Having purchased a Gaggia Classic, i used google and youtube to gather information on the best possible setup instead of trial and error. This includes 9 bar and pid. I also purchased a Eureka Mignon grinder so all in all i think its not a level playing field for beginners.
Would love to see this for pour over coffee too🙏
Yes please!!!! I'm ready to contribute to that survey!
Thanks!
On Reddit you can see the number focused recipe trend. People celebrating hitting the 18/36 in 30 sec “perfect shot” it is quite understandable as baking recipes are about the numbers.
It's very funny to me that people act like there's a universal precise correct numeric formula (that happens to hit numbers that are appealing to us given our arbitrary units of measurement and base 10 number system) for something that relies so heavily on the differences in a complex, inconsistent substance like coffee beans. All the more if they make no mention of max pressure or pressure curve. So what that it's 18:36/30 if you ground too coarse or too fine or tamp too little or too much and only hit 5 bar or go to 14 bar and then drop off to nothing because a channel forms from a hard, uneven tamp?
You can also see people bragging about how they have a "two decimal point" scale and always measure to exactly 18.00 grams, which should tell you something is off because the gram is not some kind of sacred universal constant; nothing is sacred about hitting exactly 18 grams, and minute water content in your beans can significantly impact how many grams of actual coffee 18 grams of beans translate to. It's particularly absurd because it would make sense only if they were measuring with old-fashioned manual scales using 10, 5 and 3g weights, but the very fact that they have electric scales that measure to the hundredth of a gram means that hitting the exact gram is totally 100% arbitrary.
Super interesting stuff! I'll be joining the home espresso making crowd soon, as the portable Flair kickstarter fit pretty much perfectly for the type of thing that both fits my needs and wants, my kitchen, and my budget. Splurged a bit (for my type of budget, that is) on a Baratza Encore ESP that'll be replacing my trusty Wilfa Svart grinder for pour-over and aeropress brews and taking me into the world of espresso as well. I did work as a barista for a couple of years back in the late 2010s, and while the training I got back then was pretty good, things have changed a lot since then, and I'm looking forward to getting back into espresso, even if it'll most likely be a couple-of-times-a-week type of thing.
Very interesting. Dad is too busy washing and waxing his Nardo Grey Audi to teach his kids how to make espresso, but grandpa, who drives a twelve year old Corolla, is spending time with his grandchildren, teaching them the finer things in life.
Fantastic comment
Exactly. That’s absolutely correct. I love spending time with the grandkids teaching them things like how to pull a shot!
Fascinating and fun, James! Thanks for giving all of us this opportunity to share how we approach espresso! I hope you do it again!
Loved the survey, yes please to do it again! Would be interesting to see where people buy their coffee from; supermarket, online, roasters etc..
Loved this!!! Thank you for doing the hard work on this, it was really interesting. I participated in the survey and it made listening to the results even more fun. For future survey's like this, it would be interesting to know brands for grinders and espresso machines. While it'd be cool to know the models, that data might be far too granular. It might also be fun to see how many users brew the same bag of beans on a consistent basis, vs. those that regularly switch it up (e.g. using Trade or some other subscription that rotates bags.) And lastly, how many people who make espresso at home still go out for coffee and what's the ratio of drinks made at home vs. drinks purchased while out.
Any chance of an updated budget espresso setup video?
That would be a dream. I want to upgrade but I know I’ll still have to settle for some budget choices.
What is the price range of budget?
Z1presso with a Neo Flex is probably as low as you can get. Which will make a truly delicious cup of espresso. Which Z1presso kinda depends on whether you also want to play around with pour overs and what type of beans you like, look into it!
@@hippie_4762 I'd also mention Kingrinder, but sadly they got into some legal/patent problems and their K6 is not usually easily available lately.
I had a flair signature + commandante (~$600) for many years. I was able to make a great espresso and I still miss the great texture and body of the espresso I was making with that setup.
Now I have a miicoffee apex + DF64 gen ii ($900 overall), also a fantastic setup for the price, it delivers more clarity and fruitiness I was not able to achieve with the previous setup.
I have a friend (italian) who regularly visits and always tells me I should go back to my old setup because that was the best espresso he ever had. I personally think both setups are equally good, just different.
Hope this helps.
This is great! I'd love to see a repeated survey, and all for sharing more detailed data. Could you put it up as a blog post somewhere rather than a PDF?
* What is the roast level preference by age?
* What is the roast level preference by age and years of experience? (some kind of heat map would be great)
* What is the roast level preference by gear spend?
* What is the roast level preference by location?
Focusing on ratio makes sense, but I'd like to see more about /taste/. I suspect the world in which people grew is more deterministic than other factors.
Data and questions I'd love to see in a feature survey:
* What is your interest / feeling about "speciality coffee"? Some likert scale type thing.
* Did you spend most of your life in rural, urban, or suburban areas? (Not sure yet how to best ask this yet...)
* Where do you typically purchase beans? (local shops, grocery stores, multi-roaster subscriptions, individual roaster subscriptions, etc.)
* Did you grow up drinking coffee? (Probably a likert scale too)
What I'm really curious about is how people's younger experiences with coffee carry forward. Does early exposure to speciality coffee make you more likely to gravitate towards lighter roasters at all? Is it just a big city urbanite thing? Or do folks who grow up with a "lack of good coffee" end up going down the rabbit hole later in life.
Zoomer espresso! What a lovely concept. As a data scientist and physicist I feel obligated to say that the "zoomer espresso" assessment of shorter shot times should absolutely be qualified by the number of entries. There is a very clear distinction in the resolution of the estimate that should be qualified to the viewer with a statement comparing average brew times between age groups with an uncertainty based on the statistical power of the dataset.
I'd love to see the data broken down by generation instead of generic age range. Zoomers are mostly 12 to 27. They're not only the under 18 and 18-24 groups, but also a chunk of the 25-34 group as well.
5Head comment
Yea my economist brain was absolutely itching throughout. With the Great American Taste Test we got the data and it was nice to be able to double-check some numbers and kinda delve a little. I wish that were the case here. Because there are bound to be some really interesting insights in here to dig out with the right cleaning.
I think it also could be interesting to see the age data adjusted for experience as well. For people with the same number of years of experience as the zoomers, does taste still vary by age?
If it does, that could suggest differences in taste processing (I see other comments mentioning that their sense of taste has changed as they age, which could be a factor), or differences in socialized coffee preferences (do older cultural expectations of how coffee "should" taste persist even when picking up espresso as a hobby later in life?)... But that would require actually doing that analysis to find out whether that is the case.
Maybe a survey about home filter coffee brewing would be interesting as well.
Some questions about favorite styles of processing, roast level, origin and so on.
My amateur setup:
1. Weigh beans
2. Grind them in my 1Zpresso hand grinder
3. Put the grounds in the portafilter using a funnel and clean the grinder
4. WDT the grounds, tamp, place a very thin metal mesh on top (mostly for cleanliness)
5. Put the portafilter in the machine and make espresso
It's a pretty easy setup for a beginner and still makes great espresso. The biggest factors are grind size, even tamping and bean freshness. In that order of importance
This is hobbyist espresso, albeit admittedly amateur if you use James Hoffmann as your comparison point.
Who'd ever use Hoffmann as a "comparison point"?
@@alarik95I'd say the only unnecessary step is the WDT. Grinding and weighing beans is pretty essential for espresso
1z presso gang rise up
You're literally me
I think its pretty obvious why the ratio has changed. I assume the people that responded are your followers and that is your generally recommended ratio in most videos where you pull espresso. It is the very reason I do it myself. You create the "fashion" James. You seem to have no idea how much influence you have in the coffee world bud. Grateful for everything you've done to grow my coffee obsession.
Lance is pushing longer shots pretty hard on his channel and I think his reasoning makes perfect sense. Yes, equipment is better now. But there is still subpar equipment out there, and coarser grounds extract way more evenly. Similarly, when you have equipment that is quite good, favorable extraction dynamics still play in your advantage even if you're losing body. I never drink anything at 1:2. Most shots in fact are more in the direction of 1:4 or 1:5 (and I lengthen that with fresh water afterwards still) and this just tastes so amazing that I never have the desire to go down
makes sense for median light and light roasts as you need more water flow to extract more but for really dark Italian style espresso that would be a terrible idea
Could you share the recipe of your 1:4 or 1:5 ratio shots? I have never tried that before
@@CH-yp5by it for sure is :D I drink only light roasts
@@brighthao well what I give will be hard to replicate because I'm on a la pavoni which is a whole different beast but:
I do single dose (9g) only puck prep blind shaker
and pull until 36g in the cup, light steam preinfusion
then add 10-25g of filtered water to the shot if it tastes muddy
this is on quite coarse setting so it only takes like 20 sec to get there, but I'm also not reaching 9 bars in the manual pull so it could be best to get it even quicker on your machine
the general theory of dialing this in (regardless of machine) is:
(0) start with a really fine setting
(1) do a shot like that, with added water
(2) observe the ratio tasting overextracted at that setting
(3)move coarser until taste is almost good
(4)change yield to optimize according to sour->sweet->bitter
this is a reverse volcano climb, if you're into the deep lore. Results are pretty fantastic
@@brighthao I should note I fangirl lance, and this is very much informed from his "HOW I BREW TASTY COFFEE: My Espresso Obsession Observed" and other content he's done
As a "home barista" I completely agree with you on your reasoning towards the ratios in HB vs. Coffee professional.
In Germany, good coffe from local specialty roasters often costs more than 15€ per 250g bag of coffee. I would say I have developed quite a good compass for what I like, but I'll have to start with something I know will sort of work. I I can get 15 shots from by bag, each shot is 1€ in coffe wholesale price alone....
I'd love to get an analysis including the coffee processing type as it would definitely have a impact on the taste profile and thus on the brewing method! For instance, I'm more and more enjoying natural processed coffee and I pull those shots longer than washed ones because of the acidity levels.
That aside, thanks Mr. Hoffmann and team, that was highly interesting!
On the spot ! Beans processing does make a world of difference. I mostly stay away from washed and I have now settled happily at a 2.3 brewing ratio.
Knowing about it now, I'm surprised I only learned about other processing methods recently when I started roasting my own beans. I bet it'll be a much hotter topic in five to ten years, the same way most of the coffee world used to be dark roast or bust but now there's way more roast variety with medium prevailing in America and the UK.
I'm 55 and have been making good coffee for 10 years.
Aeropress for Americano and Flair for espresso.
I can't think of better espresso at home without spending more money.
But, as you once said, if you are not going to take making espresso as a hobby, just go to the corner coffee shop and get one. Good video!
As someone who's been making espresso for 2 or 3 years, atm, I weigh my coffee in, but not out, because my espresso cups are so small that I "know" how much is coming out. Aka I used to weigh the output, and not anymore, to make my life easier. If you use enough of the same coffee, if you find the right scoop, you could also do without weighing the coffee because you'd know closely enough how much you're putting in. Repeated enough, the human eye is very good at estimating these things.
you will be incorrect because the crema takes up volume and is different between beans and over time. 2 grams over or nder makes a big difference on taste. By weighing it you at least have an accurate benchmark for your recipe to taste.
I love these kind of videos. I participated in this survey, I'm from France. I didn't know how to answer one because I am currently a home barista but I was a barista in the past and I currently work in a coffee shop in a different position. So maybe it could have been good to add a category: working in the coffee business but not a barista. All and all I loved participating in this and seeing the results in the video!
At my age, 57, my kids are grown and i can now use my disposable income on better equipment.
ALSO. My generation was raised on diner coffee.
I’m 57 too , I concur 😃
I don't know what is worse, diner coffee or college vending machine coffee. But surprisingly, vending machine coffee wasn't bad. Or it could have simply been the despiration of a college student for cafeine.
But did you eat breakfast at Tiffany's?
You said that weighing your espresso makes a difference, and "it's so helpful" I know that you have your reasons, but why is that so helpful. I pull the shot until I get to a mark on my espresso cups and estimate the time and look at the crema coming out to tell if I'm getting a good extraction... how much more information is weighing the espresso shot telling my and what would that information tell me to do differently? I'm really curious and interested in this subject! Thank you so must for making and posting this video. P.S. I hope I will the scale, if anything just to try it out.
I was thinking the same.
The "amount" of espresso is different for the same mark (the same volume) depending on what roast you use and how you grind, so e.g. 2:1 ratio might be above your mark for one coffee and below it for another one depending on those variables (roast, grinder setting, how old it is). More importantly, think of weighting the final cup as setting a virtual mark in your cup which you can move up and down as you wish for the same amount of coffee making it more or less "liquidy" (e.g. ristretto vs normal espresso). It just becomes a variable you can play with to change the taste. Finally, I have different cups (I think I have five or six with different shapes) but I can make the same coffee.
I dont weigh output, because I completely empty my Flair Signature on every shot and only play with the other variables, with the idea that pushing the same amount of water through the same amount of coffee with the same grind size of the same batch yields consistent results, which for me it does. This is also the recommended workflow from Flair for their non-58 brewers and it has worked well enough for me to not deviate. As a side note, my output is always super, super close to 40g (I do weigh it occasionally) so thats the yield I entered for this survey.
I wouldnt be surprised if you can find a correlation between manual lever users and the use of scales in you data!
This is the way, I was really surprised there wasn't more lever machine users in the survey,
I would also like to see shot lengths and ratios by style of machine, as I find my shots are much tastier on the flair when pulled longer, I put in 15g of coffee to 40g of liquid out in about 35-40 seconds
Same, I was going to comment this! I also have a Flair Signature and always fill up the brew chamber all the way with water and always push all the water out, partly because the portafilter and brew chamber are so small (my dose is only 16g, which is about the max I can consistently physically fit, as the volume varies from coffee to coffee). I used to weigh the output and cut the shot early so I'd be at a 1:2 ratio, but then I stopped cutting the shot early just to see what would happen, and didn't notice any difference in taste (it always fell between a 1:2 1:2.5 ratio out anyway, like you've found), so eventually I stopped weighing. I use different coffees, but find the grind pretty consistent, and rarely have to make any significant grind adjustments when dialing in on my Niche.
I was also curious if some of the outlier groups in the numbers were disproportionately made up of Flair/manual lever users!
This is all very good information! I feel a good question to have asked is if people are using pre-ground coffee, or if they are grinding it at home. Personally, I have been using pre-ground coffee since it got difficult for me to use my manual grinder (conical ceramic burr, $10 or less for the grinder). My brewing style did change with that choice. My current coffee selection is a dark roast and comes in a pre-ground brick for $4-5... and if you don't want it to taste like engine degreaser I recommend approximately 14g of coffee for about 25 to 30 seconds. You should be able to fill a 3.5oz espresso cup with it. Adding water to double the volume (after brewing adding both to a larger cup or mug) makes it taste even better.
15:45 100% accurate. Since I had my son 3 years ago my coffee standards have gone way down to the point now with my second son I (embarassing to admit to my family let alone a coffee channel audience) just put preground beans in a Pyrex and add boiling water
Definitely we want more survey! Interesting would be for pour over too.
A small comment about the cleaning/bad data: make the questions more clear. I don’t consider myself with understanding problems and had to read some questions a few times to understand exactly the way you want the answer. Cheers Daddy! You and your team rock 🙌🏻
Honestly I think you're giving pro barista's too much credit when it comes to ability. I rarely find a café that produces truly excellent shots...and I seek out and try many.
Really depends on where you live and the associated coffee culture, or where you travel, obvs.
I work at a cafe in the UK and I can tell you there's rarely the time or expertise in prepping, tasting and dialing in a great espresso in a cafe setting. Not only do we regularly need to bash out multiple drinks at a time for impatient and ill-informed customers, but the overwhelming majority of those drinks are not espresso. I'm the only person on the team of 9 staff who doesn't drink coffee with milk as their main drink, and that's pretty representative of the customers. Sad, but that's the state of things.
That is absolutely true but I'd also like to think that professionals who care enough about their craft to end up filling out a James Hoffmann survey would be at least a cut above the college-age baristas who are there because nowhere else would hire them and whose coffee knowledge begins and ends at "press the grind button on the grinder, put some grinds in the basket thingy, tamp down, put the basket in the machine and press the shot button. Steam milk until the pitcher is uncomfortable to hold."
@@sinicolvalley6185You don't need a scale or fancy equipment or even wdt/rdt (maybe some form of blind shaker or at least sifter, though) to pull good espresso. You can make good espresso fast. It just takes a lot more skill. I'd say the only part of a typical home barista setup that has a measurable positive impact that would still be relevant in a coffeeshop but gets dropped is spme form of wdt, but if you use a sifter you get a lot of the benefit anyway with minimal efficiency loss. Also obviously flavour nuance is gone at the point you're serving a cup of ice, vanilla syrup and a single ounce of espresso, but I think suggesting that espresso quality does not matter for anything other than pure espresso is missing the mark substantially.
That is not to say quality is even important for the vast majority of customers, but it's important for regulars and the few percent who have some kind of discerning taste, and it's also feasible.
Exactly. Very few coffee shops actually produce a flavorful shot that doesn't taste like burnt asphalt.
I just got my first "real" hand grinder and it produced a far more flavorful French press coffee than most coffee shop espressos in my area
I was so excited to see these results, yes please more future surveys!
I can’t believe this was a 25 minute video - this went by in a flash. I would gladly watch an hour of your thoughts on the data!
Much peace, and happy brewing! ✌️😌✨
Actually you can dial in your coffee at home as an amateur as well, at least that's what I do. The only difference is that the process takes days, as I drink 1 or 2 espressos per day and to not to waste I drink the "bad ones" too (which are still very decent 90% of the time for the first try) so I always adjust the grinder right away after an attempt, and then try to remember the amount for the next pull.
I even do the same for my basic cheapo coffee machine coffee when trying out new beans (of which the latest batch was terribly unevenly roasted)
You can try increasing extraction time to like 35 or even 45 if it's sour. After 30s, I switch out the cup every 5 sec and see how each of them taste. And then mix them together. That way, you don't have to waste anything. Lance Hedrick has a good video on this.
This is one of my favorite videos of yours to date! I would love to see a follow up video where you brew the “world’s most average espresso shot”. In other words, pick the most common roast level, dose, brew ratio, burr set, and equipment from the most common prices range. Then talk about some common pitfalls that espresso makers might be falling victim to
Espresso-making is kind of like a mathematical "np-complete problem" - finding the perfect espresso would take nearly infinite time, but its fully possible to find a good enough solution in an acceptable timeframe.
As a home brewer I will also optimize for flavor and play around with brew times, especially if I like the coffee and plan on buying it again. I do this over the life of the bag sometimes and take notes. What you didn't take into account was that the preference among home brewers was a medium roast and after years of home experimentation I think medium roasts generally taste best around that 30 second brew time. Whereas I imagine the pros are messing around with a much wider array of roast profiles and origins.
My boy is popular with Kim Jong Un
It's just a VPN user.
And which VPN service has servers in North Korea? That makes zero sense. It is far more likely that somebody simply lied. Actual North Koreans with free access to the Internet, those folks are likely using a. VPN server, which would mask their true location.
a VPN requires that there's a server in north Korea that they have access to
@@artemis3392 a North Korean IP address does not require a server in North Korea. It merely requires an IP address to be registered to that country.
I did have the thought earlier today, whilst making my morning coffee, that I should try to use a scale for measuring my coffee - Just a passing thought which is now CRAZY as you mentioned the lack of people not measuring their shots. I honestly thought it would be significantly higher. Better get one of those scales! Can you please share a link to some scales you would recommend for a home barista? Thanks again James, love the content and I always walk away thinking more about my coffee experince, how to make it better, and fine tuning to make the best cup possible.
The map on 2:03 would be fascinating per capita
North Korea cracked me up 😂 I reckon its the government responding to try and work out what Hoffman's agenda is and if he is being backed by the FBI.
First things first, let me introduce myself. I am someone who is enthusiastic about data. I’ve been playing with data for about two years. Not gonna lie, the way James tells a story is like a data analyst. I felt like I was in a meeting, lol-what a great presentation! A little input on the pie chart: for comparing more than four categories, in my opinion, it’s better to use a bar chart in this case.
I hope I can contribute to help analyze the data for the next survey, lol. It was really helpful and informative. Thank you all!
0:22 who are you? I am you!
But who is he?
@@MarceldeJong He is me and I am you
Hi James,
Your RUclips videos have been incredibly helpful in my coffee journey. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
I have a quick question about espresso extraction: Should the initial infusion time be included in or added to the standard 30-second extraction window?
Your insights are greatly appreciated. Thanks for elevating the coffee community!
@10:30 Maybe I'm confused, but if we all have better equipment (i.e. extract more good flavour/dose) then we can pull a longer shot without loosing taste.
I was thinking bitterness/astringency & body/weight. With better equipment, especially grinders, and better puck prep, we can extract more from a puck before being overwhelmed by bad flavors. And since we can extract more of the good flavors, a slightly higher ratio will give a similar concentration of enjoyable flavors.
I personally pull way longer shots for specialty lighter roasts. My equipment (BBE and Flair Pro 2 where brew temp tends to lack) just cannot extract enough with ratios near 2. It may end up a bit more diluted but I can't figure out how else to avoid brewing liquid sour candy
Happy to take part! Great video!
Homebrewer here: I just can't optimize for taste every single day. I make 2-3 double esspresso a day (17.5g - 25 sec). The coffee will I buy 250g and it will make me 14-15 coffees. But I do notice that after a couple of days my beans taste less tasty? I am not currently say my beans are 4 days old I need less (or more water) to make a same tasty shot. It's still way better then my old Nesspresso setup.
It definitely changes, if your recipe is based on when you first open it, you’re going to have to change it after a few days. You have to work harder to extract when they haven’t fully degassed, so my guess would be your recipe starts to over-extract once the beans have been rested for a few days (so try slightly increased grind size or slightly cooler water faster draw etc whatever your preference for dialing in is)
keep your beans in the freezer overnight as they are oxidising too quickly
I usually buy coffee in zipper bags and aroma valve (yes I've seen coffee without these). Also I put an additional plastic bag over my bag of coffee, in case the zipper doesnt seal 100%. Sometimes the extraction behavior changes over time. If you realize it is running faster after couple of days you can try to do slight adjustments in the amount of powder you are using instead of changing grinding degree.
@@CH-yp5byI don't think his trouble is oxidation. I think the first commenter was right, since he said he needs to pull weaker shots to get the same taste as time goes on. The sweet spot for beans is commonly said to be around one to two weeks after they are roasted, as they need time to degas and dehydrate (the purpose of the little valve roasters put on their bags).
You can see this in volume vs mass. As soon as they are roasted, a tablespoon of beans may weigh 14 grams; After degassing for two or three days, you can expect closer to 10, because they actually lose mass from the carbon and water they expel. Only after they are fully degassed, and if they are exposed to air, dp they begin to oxidize, which will actually slowly _increase_ mass over time.
Since we dose by mass, an 18g dose of beans that haven't been allowed to air out are going to have more carbon oxides and water relative to volatiles than 18g that have degassed, so the shot pulled will be weaker.
So most likely what is happening is his roaster (or he himself!) doesn't degas before packaging, so he's actually getting extremely freshly-roasted beans which still need to degas to give optimal results- He's just interpreting that as the beans intensifying after a few days (actually closer to, say, evaporating the moisture out of juice to make it stronger), and the part of the formula he's modifying to compensate is shot length/water ratio rather than one of the number of other variables that can affect extraction.
Thank you. Always informative and learning from you and the rest of the community. Oops to say I don't weigh my liquid coffee ☕ here in Hong Kong. Looking forward to doing that next step.
Zoomer espresso, two words I can't believe were put together and it made sense.
Skibiddy
two words that basically mean “hyper coffee”, yeah who could believe those would work together haha.
Really great video! As a data nerd it's too bad the data won't be published as I think this is a rather unique dataset in its size and demographic. Though the analysis presented was super interesting and as always very well done!
Next time you should put in an option to talk about if the equipment is second hand. I have a gaggia classic and a mazzer super jolly and I've paid less than £300 for the whole set-up. If I were to put the retail value into your survey that would be over a grand! I've not personally spent that much but it's not as helpful if you're trying to deduce the kind of machine I'm using from that question.
I completely agree. What i paid for my setup was a fraction of what its retail cost was. I paid £343 for my Cimbali Junior D1, which retailed for about £3000. Completely skewing the data.
True. My espresso experience started when I got a $40 automatic on Facebook marketplace with built in grinder. The thing cost new $1500 back in 2015. That would have been under $200 equipment.
A lot of stuff on the survey is subject to edge cases. I may be biased because I fit the category and it seems like other people took a different approach since pros apparently reported more experience than home baristas across the board, but I suspect the most common edge cases are people who used to be professional but aren't anymore, or had substantial experience at home before becoming a professional. One tact (which I took) is to self-report as whatever you are currently, and the other (which I suspect was more common) is to say you _are_ a pro if _you have ever been a pro._ It can be much better money than most people think, but my observation has been that most baristas last no more than a year, yet become hooked on espresso during that time.
Similarly, when you buy secpndhand or discounted equipment, you have to determine whether to list what you paid or what you would have paid, and that opens the can of worms that if you bought something new for, say, $500 six years ago and you could buy it new for $200 or $800 today, $500 may not be the "right" answer. I think it may be important for the survey to be clear on whether what it is polling and reporting is _how much somebody paid_ for their setup, or _how much their setup is worth today._
I saw people commenting about other edge cases during the survey, as well.
I answered the survey and it was very fun to watch all the data and the analysis!
The improvement factor is James Hoffman. You have single handedly improved the knowledge and understanding of the masses all over the world and I thank you whole heartedly from Pakistan!
James Hoffman meets R base graphics. What a glorious combination.
I participated, but I've gotten all of my info from RUclips, which pushes 18/36 in 24-30secs pretty hard
If you have all the equipment you can experiment to see what you actually like the best. That is definitely the orthodox coffeeshop doubleshot, though.
The weird depths of reddit could always push you toward more turbo-ish shots
15:07 “And I’m definitely reading too much into this, but I think it’s fun.” … that one sentence sums up everything about this whole channel and I’m here for it. 😂😂
[Makes 1 minute shot while toddler barfs up breakfast]
"Ah, F it, good enough..."
Hi James, as much as I enjoy your videos I have to admit that as a 72 year old with a cheap ( £ 20'ish ) hand grinder and a DeLonghi dedica that I have never weighed, timed or measured any part of my espresso making. I try different brands and roasts sometimes ground, even from Aldi and just keep plugging away judging the amount in my scoop by eye before loading the portafilter. It might not even be as good as average espresso but it's 100 times better than instant. Thanks for your interesting videos.
Oohhh any plans to release an anonymised data set? 😊
Yeah I feel like if not this year the next year make people fill it in with the knowledge that it will be released (anonymized) publicly.
I doubt it. The question was asked on his Discord and he didn’t respond.
Loved the video and the analysis. Especially as the graphs looked so much like academic graphs!
One thing that James noted and came to mind to me The 1:2 ratio and 30 seconds seems very round numbers.
I spent years reading up and watching videos like these on how to make proper espresso and get all particular and strive for some perfect shot etc...after 20 years, it's just not worth it. The difference between an easily pulled good shot of espresso and the "perfect" shot that social media convinces everyone is so great is barely there. They can look best for social media videos coming out of a bottomless portafilter, but they do not in fact taste any better than something close enough. These so-called perfect shots are a technicality and also a means of convincing people to keep spending thousands on more and more equipment. The actual taste and experience of drinking them is barely different if at all, and once you let a perfect shot cool a few seconds too long in the cup, any difference in taste vanishes anyway. If you're just wanting to make really nice espresso at home, get a decent entry level machine that uses proper baskets, an entry level grinder that will just about grind well enough for decent proper espresso machines (I got my latest grinder for £125 a couple of years ago) and just gradually hone your grind size and figure out your tamping or distribution method until it pulls roughly evenly and tastes good. That's it. Some consistency in what you do, sure, but there's no need at all to try and study to become some sort of coffee scientist.
You are NOT going to get anything more worthwhile from spending thousands of pounds and fussing endlessly over the most ridiculous minute technicalities, studying everything like it's a PhD. It's nonsense. So long as you're pulling an even shot that tastes good, that's literally all there is to do.
I've been to the finest cafes in Italy where they have ten grand machines and the most experienced and fussy baristas. The espresso usually doesn't actually taste any better than what I get from my £250 machine at home where I don't even bother weighing doses, I just got used to eyeballing it. Sometimes I've noticed a slightly channelled shot that tastes either just as good or even better than something I thought was perfectly pulled. In fact, it's not uncommon for espresso from such fancy places to sometimes even taste plain bad! I can't even count the number of times I've been served sour shots from ten grand machines and the fussiest baristas. All that fuss for nothing. Espresso equipment becomes just like selling golf equipment to millionaires, it's pretty much all complete nonsense beyond a certain basic point, or if there is a tiny improvement with something then it's just not worth it at all. The only reason to spend thousands on espresso gear is if you actually have a business and need to make a lot of espresso all day long, so need a much bigger machine that's built like a tank and can be plumbed in.
I really enjoyed that. I didn't contribute to the data, but I certainly recognise myself within it. Fascinating and entertaining, as always.
Since I lost my job nearly 4 years ago, and have had a terrible time finding new work, I’ve spent a good amount of time getting into coffee. Though without work, my expense on things like a good grinder, scales, has been tough to justify. Use a scoop, flatten it out, get my water by volume, do what I need to do. I think I’ve had decent coffee this way, but I’d love to have a good scale and do it better. Gonna enter, wish me luck.
James you are a pioneer in this industry. Love the content. With respect to the weighing of liquid out metric, the fact that 85% of users weigh the liquid out but there are little to no solutions available "built in" to espresso machines in the market today is shocking to me. We should have synergistic bean weight, ground coffee weight, and brew wait as ubiquitous capabilities vs. having to buy multiple Acaia Lunar scales and make it happen ourselves!
One week, a month I buy a fancy bag, and for that week I am a fancy man. (Alas, not half as fancy as James). I brew the same coffee the other 3 weeks out of 4.
Love this video. I need this nerdery.
Loved the video and the content. It would be nice to see a cluster analysis to see “types of espresso” instead of just the average
How important is basket size 58mm, 49mm, etc. in all this?
I'm a data analyst, and this was a really lovely presentation of data and some really good storytelling. Would have liked to see some statistical significance calculations (ANOVA will show significance of multiple means) which would have been interesting. I agree that the concentration in the non-professional espresso brew heatmap indicates a cognitive heuristic - 'this is tried and tested, and I've not no time or money to play about with it'.
4:40 - I wonder how much of this is reporting bias to avoid the extremes. I immediately thought of the US Census statistics that (don't quote me on this) but something like 85% of Americans self-report as "middle class". Basically meaning that everyone tends to think of themselves and their behaviors as somewhat average.
I’m using a manual lever machine and the reason I towards lungo side downs to “clean and easy maintenance”. If you’re using a lever machine there’s a back flow when you pulling up the lever to terminate extraction. It obviously causes puck distruption which requires an extra work for cleaning and happens to leave possible coffee powder residuals found in group head. So, instead of pulling up the lever at the end of extraction, I normally put a shot glass away and place some tray to let the leftover drip. 10:47
Be prepared for the Zoomer Espresso Memes
Thank you James for all your info and good humor, since watching you the quality of our coffee is so much better and the joy of making it 100% more. Would love to get a scale since I am one of the people who doesn't weight the liquid. Would be wonderful! and Thanks again for all your support
I use a £39.99 Aldi Nespresso machine (hangs head in shame)
No shame. Only joy if it makes coffee you find tasty!
It's half decent honestly, better than quite a few machines out there
I have one of these, too. I love it and it makes a decent shot if you feed it with a decent capsule or decent coffee in the portafilter.
Once in a while I then enjoy a prof-made shot in town. An expensive espresso machine would be overkill for me.
There should be absolutely no shame in using an affordable machine.
No shame! If you like the coffee you make, that's good coffee for you.
Good stuff! I change the weight (and hence, the volume of ground coffee) based how the coffee will grind. e.g. using an 18g VST basket, I found my specialty coffee wasn't anywhere near filling the basket at 18g and the puck had too much head-room so we made 20g/40g-out shots. However for "bridge coffee" (coffee I buy while I'm waiting for my specialty order) I just go to Costco and get Kirkland Columbia Supremo medium-ish tending towards dark coffee. This coffee fills the 18g basket better but shorter pulls alleviate the otherwise bitter aftertaste to make a very acceptable shot with great texture. Bonus, it's cheap enough I can make as many shots as I need to dial it in. The grinder has a timer which gives pretty consistent weight for a given coffee.
Coffee industry gonna cash in on free marketing data.
I am really enjoying all your videos, but there are one tiny point missing out.
Water, i use reverse osmose water in my espresso brewer, Rancilio cheapest one for a couple of years, and a Mahlkönig vario grinder.
Here in sweden i am vey pleased, that water sommeliers are a growing group, wich i am very pleased with. If you use distilled water ocr filtered water, it flows much more easy.
You kan test that with a normal flowersprayer, normal and distilled, there are a big difference in power you vill need to spray....
22:25 I imagined a sad North Korean subscriber when he said that
Probably a troll who used a VPN 😂
I love data as much as I love coffee.
The total of the enjoyment from two is much greater than their sum.
A big thankyou James for a good dose of both.
That one voter from North Korea, now running for his life.
It's probably Kim himself, enjoying amateur espresso while his country starves
Such great data. As a home roaster and home barista. I think economy explains a lot. In my case it’s economy of beans versus economy of cost. I always look for the golden ratio. I make more milk drinks if the ratio is off until it is dialed 8n, then I make more Americanos. 😅. Not scientific. I didn’t get the survey, but I am brewing on a 1000 dollar machine and a 1000 dollar grinder. I am not subject to upgraditis. This is my 4th single boiler and the most I’ve spent. I’d did splurge on the Oro xl, upgrading* from a Vario W. I am 55 this year. I am the only coffee drinker in my home and I like darker roasts.