I have been an electronic engineer for 50 years and spent 20 years in pro audio. The newest solid state amplifiers are so good and quiet that I can't recommend tubes for the HD800S's. The Neve RNHP is good enough for me (and Rupert Neve to put in the Centerpiece mixing console). Tubes introduce distortion and 60 cycle hum and deteriorate over time.
I just picked up the 800s. They are great for jazz and classical but I also listen to rock and they can be a little thin in the bass. What DAC are you using and are you using any eq or streaming with this amp? Thanks!
Nice overview! I really love the Forge. With appropriate tubes and the choice of output impedance (especially the 8/100 ohm version), it’s such a versatile option, with more space and euphoric midrange that I’ve yet to hear from any solid state amp.
I recommend you give the Pathos InPol Ear headphone amp a listen. My HD800s and LCD-4's (awesome contrast between these cans) became, in a word, breathtaking. I have never heard anything as absolutely jaw dropping as this hybrid amp. Very expensive, yes. But worth every penny......
@@sleepyrhythms6668 Rosson really likes the low Z out of the Forge. Try the Dan Clark Expanse headphones too out of the 100 or 300 ohm tap on the Forge. The synergy is amazing! Inverse everything DMS mentioned on his Expanse review when you listen on them with the Forge
couldn't agree more; I've been loving my DNA Starlett since the day I got it with my high Z headphones I really wish I had the chance to try out an Eddie Current amplifier though; that was another legendary line of amps before they decided to stop making them
@@jkh_monkey I had a chance to listen to a Eddie Current MKIV parallel 2A3 tubes with silver wound transformers. It reminded me of the WA33 in terms of tone and resolution and is IMHO, complements the DNA sound if you want a more incisive attack and decay to instruments (it’s less wet sounding than both ampsandsound and DNA Stratus)
As an owner of Feliks Euforia, hd800s and Zmf Atriums: omg yes! Atrium (and to an extent hd800s) + otl is for the hd600 enjoyer what Susvara is for the detail aficionado.
@@leo_mas_922 Not if you like Bass.. lol :) they're very 3d sounding though, their soundstage is unparalleled, detailed but kinda Sennheiser house sound-y. I feel like they aren't very fast, but their presentation must be heard sometime to see what the best soundstage can do.. i'm in the process of getting another and have had 2 or 3 already, they're sick for what they do but a bit pricey.
@@leo_mas_922 It depends. Imo it is very good for acoustic instruments and live performances. I'd definitely try them out first before buying to see if they are your cup of tea. They also really like tubes. If you have a solid state amp, I'd give the Arya a go.
Great video!! I’m sad you didn’t get to hear the Rad-0 out of the 8 ohm tap on the Forge. Every year it ends up being the single best experience I’ll have at the CanJam.
Question: Andrew is stating that with high-Z headphones like HD800S, we don't have to worry about a high-Z source? Does that mean it's OK to listen to these headphones on amps set to low-Z? I ask because my Woo Audio WA22 has a selector for high/low-Z output.
I have become very skeptical about tube rolling recently. I need to see actual measurements of headphones on different tubes. All this time I think I’ve fallen into placebo land regarding tube rolls; the type of tube amp makes more of a difference like OTL vs transformer rather than Mullard tubes vs telefunken tubes.
@@chronometa I have experience with ampsandsound and feliks audio, two different type of tube amps, from this comes my original comment that the difference is more in the type of amplifier rather than the tube roll.
Is the sound improvement on par with better cables? Most people suggest that the difference is huge, but you also hear such statements about better cables, and I hear absolutely no difference between different cables, what is the truth, if the difference is so incredibly huge, why do most people buy solid states then?
Thanks Chrono, great review. One nice thing about most of the tubes is you can look in from the outside but what about those two tubes on that one amp where they have been painted over from the inside. Who knows what is going on in there? 🤔
Those are Psvane tubes (current production tubes manufactured in China; well-regarded insofar as modern manufacturers go and originated as a breakaway company from another Chinese company). The theory behind the coating is that it improves the electrical stability of the tube, in respect of electron movements. The jury seems to be out among tube aficionados (and tube amp designers) on whether these coatings really do make (an audible) improvement or whether its marketing. Certainly, in the Psvane range the coating is only used in the more premium offerings. I use a pair of these Psvane power tubes in my headphone amp (Icon Audio HP8 Mk2), and a NOS Brimar from the 1950s as the driver tube (I've tried others, too) and this combination works beautifully with my HD800S (previously I used solid state and hybrid amps from Graham Slee, SPL, and Pathos). With these tubes/HP8 amp, I found the HD800S retained all their famed insight, layering, soundstage but the lower frequency weight hugely improved, the images became more holographic and the sound had more body and texture - but without losing detail - and that harshness spike that the HD800 family is also known for (especially on quite strident recordings) was nicely tamed. That said, its obviously not just a "magic" quality of the tubes but a great synergy between the HD800S, the whole circuit design of the amp, its output transformers, a good impedance match between amp and 'phones, and my upstream source also fitting in well with the other components. Took a bit of experimentation to get here, but I'm happy with my headphone rig. For speaker listening in my system, I can't imagine that I would move away from solid state amps.
Have both far better enjoying than only tube preamp or regular headphone amp. Have changed the tubes for warmer engaging sound but stock tube are also fine to start!
On modern clean SS I agree but some vintage SS amps from the heyday like Mcintosh or Luxman absolutely shine with Sennheisers, Beyers or other high impedance phones.
I have no idea how tube amps sound and I'd like to find out but I'm definitely not going to pay four-digit numbers for a heater that requires three-digit numbers per year in maintenance and also serves as an amp. It would be nice to have some digital way to reproduce the same effect on a PC.
Tubes don't really make sense to me with headphones like the 800S. If you're buying an 800S, you're probably going to be listening to classical music, and thus an analytical sound is desired. Tubes are diametrically opposed to this idea. It only makes sense if you're not listening to classical music, but then that means you purchased the wrong headphone.
I just ordered a pair of HD800s headphones and my only use it for gaming, counterstrike, which is a first person shooter. What amp or amp/DAC combo do you recommend that is strong enough to power these and allow me to get most out of headphones for my particular use. Please help. Thank you. I don’t know if I need separate DAC or one that has both amp and dac. I want something that is easy to use since I am not tech savvy and don’t have patience to mess with electronics too much.
I just purchased the HD 800s. I bought them yo play CS-GO. I have no idea about what I will power them with. Can you please recommend an amp for them? I don’t know about DAC AMP. So I need to buy everything I need yo power them. I’m only using them for CS-GO.
@@davidmandell9909 lmao!!! I get it! Trust! I have a 7k pc just for CS-GO! I just want to keep it simple since I’m a bass head when it comes to music. I like loud stereos with a lot of bass. I listen to ghetto music. Lol. These headphones need to have little bass so I can hear footsteps
I have been an electronic engineer for 50 years and spent 20 years in pro audio. The newest solid state amplifiers are so good and quiet that I can't recommend tubes for the HD800S's. The Neve RNHP is good enough for me (and Rupert Neve to put in the Centerpiece mixing console). Tubes introduce distortion and 60 cycle hum and deteriorate over time.
I just picked up the 800s. They are great for jazz and classical but I also listen to rock and they can be a little thin in the bass. What DAC are you using and are you using any eq or streaming with this amp? Thanks!
Perhaps you should mention that high output impedance amplifiers have a lower damping Factor especially on low impedance headphones.
Nice overview! I really love the Forge. With appropriate tubes and the choice of output impedance (especially the 8/100 ohm version), it’s such a versatile option, with more space and euphoric midrange that I’ve yet to hear from any solid state amp.
I run my HD660S exclusively from my Woo Audio WA7 tube amp, beautiful synergy 🙂
Most valuable videos in the field 😂
I recommend you give the Pathos InPol Ear headphone amp a listen.
My HD800s and LCD-4's (awesome contrast between these cans) became, in a word, breathtaking. I have never heard anything as absolutely jaw dropping as this hybrid amp. Very expensive, yes. But worth every penny......
Ampsandsound and DNA amps are the holy grails IMO
Agreed. Every CanJam the pinnacle of my time spent has been the Rad-0 and Forge (8 ohm tap).
@@sleepyrhythms6668 Rosson really likes the low Z out of the Forge. Try the Dan Clark Expanse headphones too out of the 100 or 300 ohm tap on the Forge. The synergy is amazing! Inverse everything DMS mentioned on his Expanse review when you listen on them with the Forge
couldn't agree more; I've been loving my DNA Starlett since the day I got it with my high Z headphones
I really wish I had the chance to try out an Eddie Current amplifier though; that was another legendary line of amps before they decided to stop making them
@@jkh_monkey I had a chance to listen to a Eddie Current MKIV parallel 2A3 tubes with silver wound transformers. It reminded me of the WA33 in terms of tone and resolution and is IMHO, complements the DNA sound if you want a more incisive attack and decay to instruments (it’s less wet sounding than both ampsandsound and DNA Stratus)
As an owner of Feliks Euforia, hd800s and Zmf Atriums: omg yes!
Atrium (and to an extent hd800s) + otl is for the hd600 enjoyer what Susvara is for the detail aficionado.
Hey i am considering hd800s . Are they that good?
@@leo_mas_922 Not if you like Bass.. lol :) they're very 3d sounding though, their soundstage is unparalleled, detailed but kinda Sennheiser house sound-y. I feel like they aren't very fast, but their presentation must be heard sometime to see what the best soundstage can do.. i'm in the process of getting another and have had 2 or 3 already, they're sick for what they do but a bit pricey.
I love my 800S with OTL amp from Sinus Audio. Want to learn how the ZMF's are in the future.
@@ChaseHub Thanks for the reply!
@@leo_mas_922 It depends.
Imo it is very good for acoustic instruments and live performances. I'd definitely try them out first before buying to see if they are your cup of tea. They also really like tubes. If you have a solid state amp, I'd give the Arya a go.
How about your zmf headphones? Did you try them?
chrono can you make a video on hd 600 scaling on high end electronics and if it's worth it
Great video!! I’m sad you didn’t get to hear the Rad-0 out of the 8 ohm tap on the Forge. Every year it ends up being the single best experience I’ll have at the CanJam.
Question: Andrew is stating that with high-Z headphones like HD800S, we don't have to worry about a high-Z source? Does that mean it's OK to listen to these headphones on amps set to low-Z? I ask because my Woo Audio WA22 has a selector for high/low-Z output.
I have become very skeptical about tube rolling recently. I need to see actual measurements of headphones on different tubes. All this time I think I’ve fallen into placebo land regarding tube rolls; the type of tube amp makes more of a difference like OTL vs transformer rather than Mullard tubes vs telefunken tubes.
I think the change comes from change of output
@@chronometa Could be. One tube louder than the other lol, I have a couple of those.
@@olimphus26 there seems be two schools for these amps. Old school vibe ala amp and sound, vs something like wood audio
@@chronometa I have experience with ampsandsound and feliks audio, two different type of tube amps, from this comes my original comment that the difference is more in the type of amplifier rather than the tube roll.
@@olimphus26 yea. How the tube is handled seems to make the most difference.
I'm trying to look for an amp that will accommodate the metalhead in me.
Is the sound improvement on par with better cables? Most people suggest that the difference is huge, but you also hear such statements about better cables, and I hear absolutely no difference between different cables, what is the truth, if the difference is so incredibly huge, why do most people buy solid states then?
How much of the same effect can you recreate with VSTs?
Thanks Chrono, great review. One nice thing about most of the tubes is you can look in from the outside but what about those two tubes on that one amp where they have been painted over from the inside. Who knows what is going on in there? 🤔
Those are Psvane tubes (current production tubes manufactured in China; well-regarded insofar as modern manufacturers go and originated as a breakaway company from another Chinese company). The theory behind the coating is that it improves the electrical stability of the tube, in respect of electron movements. The jury seems to be out among tube aficionados (and tube amp designers) on whether these coatings really do make (an audible) improvement or whether its marketing. Certainly, in the Psvane range the coating is only used in the more premium offerings.
I use a pair of these Psvane power tubes in my headphone amp (Icon Audio HP8 Mk2), and a NOS Brimar from the 1950s as the driver tube (I've tried others, too) and this combination works beautifully with my HD800S (previously I used solid state and hybrid amps from Graham Slee, SPL, and Pathos). With these tubes/HP8 amp, I found the HD800S retained all their famed insight, layering, soundstage but the lower frequency weight hugely improved, the images became more holographic and the sound had more body and texture - but without losing detail - and that harshness spike that the HD800 family is also known for (especially on quite strident recordings) was nicely tamed.
That said, its obviously not just a "magic" quality of the tubes but a great synergy between the HD800S, the whole circuit design of the amp, its output transformers, a good impedance match between amp and 'phones, and my upstream source also fitting in well with the other components. Took a bit of experimentation to get here, but I'm happy with my headphone rig. For speaker listening in my system, I can't imagine that I would move away from solid state amps.
So if you went out today to buy a dac/amp for hd800s for gaming with mic capabilities, what would you buy?
Does anyone had the chance to compare the Euforia vs the Euforia 20th anniversary? Is the difference minimal between the two?
Would it make sense to get tube amps for a pair of Ether 2's?
Dropping that guitar knowledge, noice…
I am looking to purchase an OTL tube amp for my hd 800 s specifically. Thinking about the xduoo ta-26. Thoughts?? Any other recommendations??
Don't waist your money, better save up for Feliks echo.
Have both far better enjoying than only tube preamp or regular headphone amp. Have changed the tubes for warmer engaging sound but stock tube are also fine to start!
@@markwillems4826 which after market tubes did you go for? I’m open to tube rolling for a warmer sound to tame the highs of the hd 800 s
@@camoturtle18 SED / Sovtek 6AS7G 6H13C
General Electric 6AS7 GA JAN, Balanced
EH 6SN7 Balanced
Get a Neve RNHP.
To me HD8xx or HD650 are only good on OTL amps. I would never go back to solid state with Sennheisers.
On modern clean SS I agree but some vintage SS amps from the heyday like Mcintosh or Luxman absolutely shine with Sennheisers, Beyers or other high impedance phones.
Free winter heating in Canada
Bettter?
For real tho. Thanks for the vid!
300 ohm headphones
marry beautifully
with tube OTL amps...
Just fyi, NOW is the time to start taking propecia.
I run my Sen’s 650 exclusively on my tube amps 😊
Just out of curiosity, what do you have?
@@FabioKasper I use a Valhalla 2 for mine
@@FabioKasper The Xduoo 604 and the
Loxji 20 they’re cheap ..but they do bring something to the party 🎉
Great. Thanks!
Tubes ❤
I have no idea how tube amps sound and I'd like to find out but I'm definitely not going to pay four-digit numbers for a heater that requires three-digit numbers per year in maintenance and also serves as an amp. It would be nice to have some digital way to reproduce the same effect on a PC.
Well I guess you won't and there's no other way.
There are cheaper options available under $100.
@@Rsalmond83 But is their sound representative of tube amps in general? Or would they sound good at all?
@@Rsalmond83 what options are you talking about, there is nothing good at that price point it's a waste of money.
@@Rsalmond83 Those are fire hazards. The cheapest one should go is a Valhalla 2 which pairs great with 6x0
Could you make thumbnails without the stupid faces?
Tubes don't really make sense to me with headphones like the 800S. If you're buying an 800S, you're probably going to be listening to classical music, and thus an analytical sound is desired. Tubes are diametrically opposed to this idea. It only makes sense if you're not listening to classical music, but then that means you purchased the wrong headphone.
There are many classical lovers use tube amp
@@wumingkit Strawman
I use the hd 800 headphones. Don’t listen to a lot of classical music though.
I just ordered a pair of HD800s headphones and my only use it for gaming, counterstrike, which is a first person shooter. What amp or amp/DAC combo do you recommend that is strong enough to power these and allow me to get most out of headphones for my particular use. Please help. Thank you. I don’t know if I need separate DAC or one that has both amp and dac. I want something that is easy to use since I am not tech savvy and don’t have patience to mess with electronics too much.
@@joemomma707JDS atom+ stack. Make sure you add the necessary accessories to pair the dac and amp. All you need for gaming PC/PS5
First
I just purchased the HD 800s. I bought them yo play CS-GO. I have no idea about what I will power them with. Can you please recommend an amp for them? I don’t know about DAC AMP. So I need to buy everything I need yo power them. I’m only using them for CS-GO.
I have them with a Pathos InPol Ear hybrid amp and let's just say I have never heard anything as breathtaking....
@@davidmandell9909 I hope not! That’s over $5,000!!! Lmao!!! I’m just using these for Csgo so I’m going with the jds labs element 3
@@joemomma707 Dude, it’s an expensive endeavor to reach bliss…
@@davidmandell9909 lmao!!! I get it! Trust! I have a 7k pc just for CS-GO! I just want to keep it simple since I’m a bass head when it comes to music. I like loud stereos with a lot of bass. I listen to ghetto music. Lol. These headphones need to have little bass so I can hear footsteps
Those headphones have 0 bass!
no