I'd like to see a video on how using an amp vs not using one affects the sound quality of headphones, i.e. what things can I look for to know whether my headphones are underpowered, or how much performance am I leaving on the table by not using an amp on a headphone that is supposedly hard to drive.
My phone could only derive DT 770 pro at say around low-half volume, where as Macbook pro was able to derive it to very high volume. As for quality of sound it doesn't change, maybe loudness effect can appear like a change.
@@ManoharSingh-dg8ih This is flat-out wrong. Rarely is an amp actually required to get adequate listening volumes, the reason you amp is to supply adequate power to properly control the driver through any dynamic swing you may throw at it. A properly-amped driver is faster, more dynamic, detailed, and more controlled as a whole.
@@alondite215I've been unable to hear a lot of things in songs when using my he400se with a samsung A31. yes, it did get loud, but most of the audio wasn't even there, especially voices, since these headphones aren't as front facing with vocals. to get a decent amount of detail I had to crank the volume near max since the lower 70% was near unhearable even when in a completely silent room.
Only Class A amp that I consider as 100.00000% Class A is a pure single ended triode (no parallel tubes, directly or indirectly heated or triode strapped without any option to switch to pentode) output transformer coupled amp. The rest of them that claim Class A are not Class A in my book since they have tricks to switch to A/B when power requirements increases beyond a certain point or has a push-pull /pentode/ultra-linear mode, or it's a balanced driven triode amp).
@@williamsteven5613 A balanced amp uses push-pull which is Class A/B because each op-amp or tube or transistor only amplifies one set of peaks (positve amplitude peaks for example or R+/L+) and that other tube / op-amp / transistor that amplfies the negative peaks (R-/L-) is momentarily off (50% duty cycle). Manufacturers add something called "Class A Bias" and claim that at a certain power requirements, these transistors can turn on 100% of the time (aka 100% duty cycle) thus amplifying all signals (one tube is R+/R-, complete sine wave in pure Class A) while the other tube/op amp etc amplifies the L+/L-
Very succinct, very clear and very *needed* tutorial on this subject. I design vacuum tube amplification gear professionally, and the subject matter you cover here is *very* commonly misunderstood by audio enthusiasts. Kudos!
There are a lot of myths surrounding the use of balanced cables with headphones, not helped by the different cable topologies different brands headphones have, and whether the headphones are passive transducers or an active (e.g. noise-cancelling) one. For "traditional" topologies where each L/R capsule has its own 2-core cable feed and the "grounds" are tied together at the headphone jack end of the cable, if switching to a balanced cable results in an audible difference that means there is something wrong with the grounding topology and/or termination inside the non-balanced headphone amp. A passive headphone itself (excl. cable) is by definition a balanced device as both "ground" and "live" feeds terminate in the same impedance.
Although it's worth noting that the nominal impedance should be near to the lowest impedance, so that variation in impedance can only make for LESS power draw at some frequencies. For more power to be drawn from a voltage source, impedance must fall (which does happen in some IEMs), and technically the standard is that headphone impedance is "supposed" to be specified at or near the very lowest impedance.
@@GoldenSound But since the impedance bump of dynamic drivers are at the same place as the resonance frequency, the power required ends up at plus/minus zero, right?
@@CaveyMoth maybe pronouncing it “Fokle” who fucking knows, you asked how he pronounced it so I told you, he pronounces it oddly for sure, if you like you can pronounce it “I wank dogs off” I dgaf what you do on your day off
One thing I dont quite understand is how to know from specs, how much power can put a certain amp in to a 300ohm headphone if the specs are given in mW for an headphone of 32ohm of impedance. Ca someone explain it 🙏 ? (the video is quite useful tho)
You can't really. At most you can assume that the amplifier outputs the same amount of voltage at these two impedances and work out the amount from P=U^2/R equation.
Technically sensitivity should be expressed as a function of voltage not power, the way many (but far from all) speaker manufacturers express it nowadays. If you express 'sensitivity' as a function of power (wattage) what you are actually describing is 'nominal' efficiency. Nominal because it depends on impedance and the quoted impedance is 'nominal' because it often varies with frequency.
Though I respect you for being a great bridge between objective and subjective world, this video, though being quite informative, went zipped past. Would have been lot informative with bit lesser speed and with examples! 👍
An excellent video in terms of coherent explanation of key concepts but he doesn’t actually answer the question he poses in the title of the video. Do I need an amp?
This is a great video, favorited for future reference as it saves a lot of writting time when explaining to people how headphones work. Personally i found out that people tend to understand better the concept of power to sound pressure conversion when you explain to them that the headphone impedance determines the amplifier maximum power, and then sensitivity is how efficiently a driver can convert that power to sound pressure. For some reason explaining it as "steps" makes that information easier to digest.
I find that most people who arent WILLING audiophiles really don't care about this. Audiophiles care...most people will still buy those crappy Bleats, Bosé and Cowin Headphones off Amazon. I've seen this too many times where most people dont care about better sound and the technical of a headphone as much as we do. They just don't and I'm resigned to say that's okay.
Great video, Cameron. I use a digital db meter ($20 Amazon) and shoot for 80-85db at abut 50-60% amp volume at low gain setting (I typically only use high gain for a little more note weight at low listening levels, like the old-fashioned loudness function). After doing this with about a dozen sources I have gotten to know my headphone driving need rather well. Now I can more easily look at the impedance and sensitivity of a headphone and basically know the ballpark power source needed.
@@koustuvkanungo9873 the meter tip inserts between the pads as I press them to seal around the meter tip. It is not meant to be scientific measure. I use this for benchmarking. Very useful to protect me ears too. Thanks.
@@dukdive Cameron's method is more accurate but my method is a quick way within an acceptable SD to benchmark my listening levels for understanding my headphones power needs and to protect my ears. Thanks.
A good amp with output transformer will have no problems with any impedance load. IMHO, the sensitivity rating is a more important factor to look at when researching headphones.
Voltage is voltage and current is current but impedence is not resistance. Ohm's Law in an AC circuit is V=IZ. Impedence also varies depending on frequency. How this factors into a headphone circuit I have no clue.
Hello there, my amp (ACUS FERDI 8) does not have a headphone output. Can I try to circumnavigate it by connecting “something: to my DirectOut on my amp? Thank you.
maybe i'm crazy but first of all your video is very useful, I bought an DT-990 Pro and I really don't need an amp I just need to push the volume to 75% but I don't need above that pourcentage. Secondly I was able to test an amp with my headphone and I notice that it's clearly louder but I notice a slight loss of detail in the music I listen to (perhaps this is due to the sensation of "loudness" by the amp) I wanted to know if this is accurate or im just crazy haha. Btw I can modify the audio parameters (without the amplifier) up to 192 khz in the windows parameters, whereas with the amp I can only go up to 96khz. And i can push to 192khz because I have files (I don't know if this is due to the loss of detail)
I feel like the first myth could have been worded a lot better. I would almost think the HD600 is harder to drive than the HD650, for example, even though I’m sure that’s not what you meant.
I recently ordered the Ananda BT because it's an open headphone with bluetooth, I expect it to come in a few days. I have 0 experience with open headphones, dacs, amps etc. so I was wondering if I should invest in let's say the Topping E50 + Topping L50 to up my game or wouldn't it do anything? I suppose it won't in BT mode, but when wired should I notice a huge difference? And I've read that this headphone has a build in DAC because that's needed for BT, so maybe just the AMP will be sufficient for it?
Great video. I appreciate your vids and how you cover these topics. You somehow manage to keep it simple while hitting all of the important tech points that we need to understand. Thank you Golden Sound!
I have sony mdr 7506... and they hugely benefit from an amp... now this could be a shortcoming of my motherboard audio. so that is something important to note. I got the Schiit magni unity with the dac option I gained better lows and highs and general clarity across the board over my motherboard soundcard... that said, things were still pretty good before... I wouldn't get the dac/amp for these headphones, I am waiting for my hifiman edition XS.
I wouldnt say that higher impedance headphones draw less current. Transducers are moved by current and they need enough of it so higher impedance headphones need more voltage to flow enough current. In other words yes they can draw less current at given voltage, but they can be underpowered when the voltage is too low. I =V/R, where R means load impedance (headphone). The higher the R is the lower the value of the current flow (as u said), so u need higher value of voltage to achieve good amount of current flow to the transducers.
@@SlashThePriestnot sure if I understood your question correctly, but voltage will be attenuated by the volume knob (so it depends on the loudness you are listening on, using given headphones). I hope I dont say bullshit, though 😅
@@matusjurcik6974 Yes exactly, that was what I was trying to say with max voltage. As long as you don't change anything but the headphones the voltage should be the same. The output of the amp is limited by the voltage, so if I wanted to calculate the power of an amp with different impedance (headphones) than the spec sheet of the amp I would be able to do so with Ohm's Law by assuming that the voltage is constant.
@@SlashThePriest ok :) my OG comment was purely, about ohm law though (without consideration of volume adjustability ,,feature,, of an amp). Its alright to send control questions, though. I do it all the time 😁
can anyone share a list of iems which doesnt require any dac/amp or any fancy stuff for listening on an normal iphone 14promax directly - am a newbie any pointers will be helpful - mainly for listening fun music - a common man question
How can I connect headphones to my amp without the speakers muting? I have a Yamaha A S301. I just need the speakers to play at the same time as the speakers.
A question for the experts: Is the Ifi Zen Dac V2 powerful enough to power a Hifiman Edition XS? And does it absolutely need an external power pack, or is the power from the USB port sufficient? Thanks :-)
Yes the Zen DAC is more than enough... The Edition XS requires 63.1mW of power to get to the standard 110dB SPL as listed by Golden Sound. The Zen DAC can do roughly 350mW into 32 Ohm so yes it should be able to run the Edition XS no problem
You don't necessarily use a dac to power your Headphones. Upgrading the quality of sound from your streaming device is the core issue ... Often rather simple equipment like Røde AI-1 is sufficient.
The easiest way to read all these headphones amp power is in RMS. Seem none of these manufactures do and they are trying to hide it. They even listed in mw instead of watts just make it looks more powerful. Thousands milliwatts instead if just 1 or 2 watts.
Is it a myth when ppl say x IEM requires this much power on specs, but in reality is much more power hungry to reach it's full potential, and requires instead of a BTR7, a FiiO M17 instead? Is that actually related to power, or just sound signature pairing/synergy, or even placebo? Or do headgear really require more power than their specs to reach their full potential?
Planars like current because of their low sensitivity and impedance which is a hard load for an amp to manage. Generally when we are talking about personal audio, the more power a device has, the more capacitance is likely to have. This gets more complicated when you move in to significantly more expensive products were they have relatively low output power, but extremely high current offset. Voltage is simply stored energy, its only job it supply the amount of current the headphone needs. This might be why its advantageous to buy a amp way way more powerful than you'll ever nee purely by its power rating, because the current is what is powering your headphone, which usally isn't stated on the spec sheet.
Thanks, that was a knowledgeable and succinct presentation. Very well done! Am wondering if a presentation on this topic with a small assortment of amps and headphones would be appropriate for events such as CanJam or other HiFi shows? There is nothing quite like personally engaging in the points mentioned, (watts, impedance and sensitivity), than through first hand experience for those new to the hobby that is a passion for many. Really enjoy the conversations between and collaborative attitude of the people on The Headphone Show.
The crest factor (ratio of peak value to RMS value) of a sine wave is 1.414, so you with a RMS power rating you are getting 3dB less than the peak, but it's continuous. Sinusoids have very low crest factor versus music, and as a result sine tests are quite stressful on devices, so the distortion behavior you get with a high level sine is going to be meaningfully worse than what you'd get with a musical stimulus with the same peak level in almost all cases.
I have resisted the urge of upgraditis with my amp because lots of people at release called it the last amp you will ever need (thx 789). I’ve seen certain audio reviewers say it’s boring or clinical but it has always worked for me and having 3 outputs that run simultaneously has been great for listening parties with guests. It can run my hd800, q701, hd650 and many others to ear bleeding levels at the same time😂
Instead of HI RES stickers they should make "Tungsten ready!" and "Susvara approved" stickers so people don't get confused, they can get a kickback from said companies.
Nicely Done. Since your asking. How about a video taking tier groups of iems & headphone (well known ) priced from $50- & up and pair them with a dac/amp price appropriate for that specific gear. Showing how an inexpensive stack will handle the iem or headphone just fine and what a tier up in price offers :) Including the info. from this video and the power calculator :) Thanks
It is incorrect that the volume knob adjusts gain. As you said later in the video, for most amps it adjusts attenuation of the input signal. Also, putting your amp in high gain will not change the specs of the amp, but it will allow you achieve higher wattage. So if your cans are not getting loud enough, changing the gain setting to high might help. Nice video otherwise. Love the Audio Precision graphs.
To clarify, whilst the fixed-gain stage is not having its gain altered, the gain of the product as a whole is. Attenuation of a signal is negative gain. This was said in reference to the product as a whole
In a "typical" amplifier, higher gain settings mean lower feedback, so you do actually have some theoretical change in specifications even aside the gain. Now, will you see this? In most amps, the dominant factors limiting performance aren't inside the feedback loop anyway, so typically not - but it's in about the same technicality space as looking at the circuit gain rather than the "black box" gain of an input to the amp vs. its output 😁
If there are other humans in your house have some consideration and Get a closed back. Even video games' soundtracks will sound better with a clean amp. Look at amps with thx
I came here in search of answers to whether or not I even need anything more than built in audio on PC for my skullcandy crusher evo's and I'm pretty sure this stuff is out of my league.
would love some explanation for the formula/equation used in your Headphones Power Calculator. I've just found the equation to convert the sensitivity from dB/mW to dB/V: SV = SP + 20•Log(sqrt(1000/Z)), where Z is the headphones impedance. just wondering about the formula for required Voltage and Current. while Power I believe is the result of V*A Thanks in advance for the explanation!
Oh God, I;m so confused... Ok, I just bought the DT990 Pro's on sale from Beyerdynamic, for use with my laptop. I do not have an amp, interface or seperate DAC. I haven't received the phones yet, but now I am totally paranoid when I fire up my DAW, I will hear very little through the standard soundcard 3.5mm jack. And I have asked so many different people and got so many different answers. Someone even said without an Interface AND an amp, I'll hear basically nothing, while other people say It will be absolutely no problem whatsoever. As I said, I am so confused!
It's like wine. You enjoy to explore different grapes, taste, and their texture. My reference i HD-600 (open) and DT-150 (DT-100 pads, closed) and Etymotic ER2XR (IEM)
Hi, What you think about pairing Denon ah D 5200 and aune x1s GT pre amp dac`? do you have any recommends for those headphones? i have cables 4,4 mm so i prefer mostly same output amp. thank you. portable i have ifi hip da v3.
Just find this video,omg best explanation ever pal.I just start my hifi journey,hifiman sundara and I’m testing it with FiiO 7 and if zen dac,everyone say fiio is better cuz is more powerful but I also like zen dac and don’t feel Like is not loud enough or lack of power.Did you maybe review zen dac?
how to choose one for your phone where it is a normal small headphone jack and how to know it will work'? I got the Light Phone 2 and got all my Apple Music and podcasts on it as well some recordings from Logic Pro... Now I use the beyerdynamic DT 1770 PRO and want to use them as well as with my phone to listen to music...
One thing I still don't understand: Is there a good reason to still buy and use an amp if I am using headphones which can be played at ample good enough volume across all my devices? Or maybe in more concrete terms, would something like Campfire Andromeda or the new Sony MDR-MV1 benefit from amp when both can be driven easily on a smartphone? Lots of people seem to suggest so, but what is the science behind that?
NOISE! Never mind the science. Isnt it enough for you to be told over and over again that phones and computers are horribly noisy? And we are not just telling you about audible noise (which may actually even be present). Get a separate dac/amp and you will hear for yourself.
Does it means that a Focal Utopia 2022 for example will sound fine even with a less powerful amplifier? Or even a dongle DAC/AMP like the iFi Go bar or the AudioQuest Cobalt will be more than enough?
Golden Sound - great video. I have Audeze LCD-5 headphones. My DAC is the Gustard X26Pro. I'm currently using an iFi iCan Pro Signature amp. Any suggestions on a new amp and or DAC to drive these cans? Thanks in advance.
If I say that this video changed the WHOLE way I saw the power rating of amps - does that mean I have been a complete dunce up till this moment. If it does ...then it does. It also means that I am incredibly grateful not to be a dunce anymore. That was quite long enough. Thanks so much for making this video. I suspect I was not the only dunce in the room. Haha. More, please - remove my dunceness on all topics headphone!!
i didnt really get the part about planar (9:27) so let me recap if i've understood correctly: so if i listen at 85db the bass region in most song could be at 20db higher due to human hear stuff, so i plug 110 db in the calculator to see if i can drive it in the full range so in planar the bass is particulary hard to drive so the amp will output even more power towards those frequency and therefore i need an amp that drives cleanly even at higher power? so in practice what happens and how i check this? i have a fosi audio q5 that is rated for 400mW @32ohm and i'm intrested in a
The thumbnail for this video made me chuckle. I mean this in no disrespect, but the picture reminded me of Elmo St. Peters from The Brave Little Toaster lol. Love your videos!!
High impedance means it doesn't draw enough power (but theoretically you could run lots of them in parallel on one amp so it's not the same as low sensitivity or efficiency). Low sensitivity means it needs lots (comparatively) of power to get loud, although sometimes sensitivity is measured in terms of voltage needed to get loud - which can also mean high impedance cans simply receiving less actual power, not just inefficiency.
This was very helpful, thank you. However, I would really like to see you display some various spec sheets from different amps and headphones and stare and compare the voltages and wattage and sensitivity specs so we can take this theory and apply it to a real world shopping situations.
5:30 If anyone's got this down, care to explain? How does higher gain not equal higher output voltage in this description? And how does it not alter power as consequence?
the thing that i don't understand is why does more gain not mean more power? doesn't power equal voltage X current, and gain increases the voltage? so there should be more power, i don't have a deep understanding of electricity and circuitry so bare with me, i understand the increase of noise floor and why that's bad so there's no need for an explanation there.
I'd like to see a video on how using an amp vs not using one affects the sound quality of headphones, i.e. what things can I look for to know whether my headphones are underpowered, or how much performance am I leaving on the table by not using an amp on a headphone that is supposedly hard to drive.
My phone could only derive DT 770 pro at say around low-half volume, where as Macbook pro was able to derive it to very high volume. As for quality of sound it doesn't change, maybe loudness effect can appear like a change.
how many ohms @@ManoharSingh-dg8ih
@@Phoenix_of_the 80
@@ManoharSingh-dg8ih This is flat-out wrong. Rarely is an amp actually required to get adequate listening volumes, the reason you amp is to supply adequate power to properly control the driver through any dynamic swing you may throw at it. A properly-amped driver is faster, more dynamic, detailed, and more controlled as a whole.
@@alondite215I've been unable to hear a lot of things in songs when using my he400se with a samsung A31. yes, it did get loud, but most of the audio wasn't even there, especially voices, since these headphones aren't as front facing with vocals. to get a decent amount of detail I had to crank the volume near max since the lower 70% was near unhearable even when in a completely silent room.
would love a vid of an explanation of the differences between class a, a/b, d amps
Yes plz
Only Class A amp that I consider as 100.00000% Class A is a pure single ended triode (no parallel tubes, directly or indirectly heated or triode strapped without any option to switch to pentode) output transformer coupled amp. The rest of them that claim Class A are not Class A in my book since they have tricks to switch to A/B when power requirements increases beyond a certain point or has a push-pull /pentode/ultra-linear mode, or it's a balanced driven triode amp).
@@NexusS4GIceJelly why does it being single ended matter?
@@williamsteven5613 A balanced amp uses push-pull which is Class A/B because each op-amp or tube or transistor only amplifies one set of peaks (positve amplitude peaks for example or R+/L+) and that other tube / op-amp / transistor that amplfies the negative peaks (R-/L-) is momentarily off (50% duty cycle). Manufacturers add something called "Class A Bias" and claim that at a certain power requirements, these transistors can turn on 100% of the time (aka 100% duty cycle) thus amplifying all signals (one tube is R+/R-, complete sine wave in pure Class A) while the other tube/op amp etc amplifies the L+/L-
Easy, a, a-b sound different and interesting, d is dull shite. Bit of an overarching generalisation, but an opinion nonetheless.
Very succinct, very clear and very *needed* tutorial on this subject.
I design vacuum tube amplification gear professionally, and the subject matter you cover here is *very* commonly misunderstood by audio enthusiasts.
Kudos!
I'd like the topic of balanced cables for headphones explored in a similar way.
There are a lot of myths surrounding the use of balanced cables with headphones, not helped by the different cable topologies different brands headphones have, and whether the headphones are passive transducers or an active (e.g. noise-cancelling) one.
For "traditional" topologies where each L/R capsule has its own 2-core cable feed and the "grounds" are tied together at the headphone jack end of the cable, if switching to a balanced cable results in an audible difference that means there is something wrong with the grounding topology and/or termination inside the non-balanced headphone amp.
A passive headphone itself (excl. cable) is by definition a balanced device as both "ground" and "live" feeds terminate in the same impedance.
Also you should have mentioned that the impedance of dynamic headphones varies significantly with frequency.
Yep! This is also an important factor to consider
Although it's worth noting that the nominal impedance should be near to the lowest impedance, so that variation in impedance can only make for LESS power draw at some frequencies. For more power to be drawn from a voltage source, impedance must fall (which does happen in some IEMs), and technically the standard is that headphone impedance is "supposed" to be specified at or near the very lowest impedance.
There are certainly a lot of misconceptions about this.
@@GoldenSound But since the impedance bump of dynamic drivers are at the same place as the resonance frequency, the power required ends up at plus/minus zero, right?
i just wana listen to song pls wtf is this
Then do that 🤦♂️
😂
Fr though
This is super insightful even for someone who has been in the hobby for 5 years. Thank you golden.
Joshua Valour needs to watch this...and someone teach him how to pronounce HIFIMAN
Why? 🤔
How does he pronounce it? Hiffyman?
@@CaveyMoth “Hifeeman”
@@oioionionone Oh, wow. What's next? Pronouncing Focal like focal?
@@CaveyMoth maybe pronouncing it “Fokle” who fucking knows, you asked how he pronounced it so I told you, he pronounces it oddly for sure, if you like you can pronounce it “I wank dogs off” I dgaf what you do on your day off
One thing I dont quite understand is how to know from specs, how much power can put a certain amp in to a 300ohm headphone if the specs are given in mW for an headphone of 32ohm of impedance. Ca someone explain it 🙏 ? (the video is quite useful tho)
You can't really. At most you can assume that the amplifier outputs the same amount of voltage at these two impedances and work out the amount from P=U^2/R equation.
As per law of headlines - no.
Technically sensitivity should be expressed as a function of voltage not power, the way many (but far from all) speaker manufacturers express it nowadays. If you express 'sensitivity' as a function of power (wattage) what you are actually describing is 'nominal' efficiency. Nominal because it depends on impedance and the quoted impedance is 'nominal' because it often varies with frequency.
Though I respect you for being a great bridge between objective and subjective world, this video, though being quite informative, went zipped past. Would have been lot informative with bit lesser speed and with examples! 👍
An excellent video in terms of coherent explanation of key concepts but he doesn’t actually answer the question he poses in the title of the video. Do I need an amp?
Wow you sound a lot like an electrical engineer.
Thank you, it is the clearest explanation on this subject that I have seen!
This video needs to be remade with visual graphics. XD
This is a great video, favorited for future reference as it saves a lot of writting time when explaining to people how headphones work.
Personally i found out that people tend to understand better the concept of power to sound pressure conversion when you explain to them that the headphone impedance determines the amplifier maximum power, and then sensitivity is how efficiently a driver can convert that power to sound pressure. For some reason explaining it as "steps" makes that information easier to digest.
I find that most people who arent WILLING audiophiles really don't care about this. Audiophiles care...most people will still buy those crappy Bleats, Bosé and Cowin Headphones off Amazon. I've seen this too many times where most people dont care about better sound and the technical of a headphone as much as we do. They just don't and I'm resigned to say that's okay.
@@DJ_BROBOT we are not taking about those people.
A lot of my music library of the 80s doesn't get remasters so I have music that's so quite then the next track gets absurdly loud
Great video, Cameron. I use a digital db meter ($20 Amazon) and shoot for 80-85db at abut 50-60% amp volume at low gain setting (I typically only use high gain for a little more note weight at low listening levels, like the old-fashioned loudness function). After doing this with about a dozen sources I have gotten to know my headphone driving need rather well. Now I can more easily look at the impedance and sensitivity of a headphone and basically know the ballpark power source needed.
Just pointing a db meter at a headphone cup isn't a good measure of their SPL, you'll end up underestimating it by a lot.
He also literally said % of amp volume is doing it wrong
@@koustuvkanungo9873 the meter tip inserts between the pads as I press them to seal around the meter tip. It is not meant to be scientific measure. I use this for benchmarking. Very useful to protect me ears too. Thanks.
@@dukdive Cameron's method is more accurate but my method is a quick way within an acceptable SD to benchmark my listening levels for understanding my headphones power needs and to protect my ears. Thanks.
Would be cool if in the calculator you could select the most common headphones, s.t. their values would be filled in automatically.
Watts are Watts no matter Watt....Missed opportunity lol
What tube do you have in your Vali? I was hoping for a review of that thing :)
I still don't know if I need an amp for my headphones
A good amp with output transformer will have no problems with any impedance load. IMHO, the sensitivity rating is a more important factor to look at when researching headphones.
Voltage is voltage and current is current but impedence is not resistance. Ohm's Law in an AC circuit is V=IZ. Impedence also varies depending on frequency. How this factors into a headphone circuit I have no clue.
Amazing video, I learned alot. How about a video about rise time and slew rate in different classes of amps. Thanks!
Good one.
Hello there, my amp (ACUS FERDI 8) does not have a headphone output. Can I try to circumnavigate it by connecting “something: to my DirectOut on my amp? Thank you.
Steel watts are heavier than feather watts
No but they taste different.
Though often depending on the colour 🤓
Class A sounds better though.....more often then not...
Good video !!
Excellent explanation. Clear, concise and articulate. More explanatory videos like this would be great.
I have Behringer U-PHORIA UMC202HD audio interface. Which DT 770 Pro should I buy 80ohm or 250ohm?
Would it be possible to have a review of the Schiit Lyr headphone amplifier?
Please explain OTL/non OTL tube amps vs hi/low headphone impedance.
High impedance headphones often sound divine on an OTL tube headphone amp: Dark Voice, LTA MZ, et. al.
Test your own headphones out, with and without an amp, and find out for yourself if hear any difference.
maybe i'm crazy but first of all your video is very useful, I bought an DT-990 Pro and I really don't need an amp I just need to push the volume to 75% but I don't need above that pourcentage. Secondly I was able to test an amp with my headphone and I notice that it's clearly louder but I notice a slight loss of detail in the music I listen to (perhaps this is due to the sensation of "loudness" by the amp) I wanted to know if this is accurate or im just crazy haha. Btw I can modify the audio parameters (without the amplifier) up to 192 khz in the windows parameters, whereas with the amp I can only go up to 96khz. And i can push to 192khz because I have files (I don't know if this is due to the loss of detail)
I've been waiting for such a vid to spread around for an eternity. Tanks a lot
I feel like the first myth could have been worded a lot better. I would almost think the HD600 is harder to drive than the HD650, for example, even though I’m sure that’s not what you meant.
In the context of headphones and IEMs, what does “scales with power” mean?
I recently ordered the Ananda BT because it's an open headphone with bluetooth, I expect it to come in a few days. I have 0 experience with open headphones, dacs, amps etc. so I was wondering if I should invest in let's say the Topping E50 + Topping L50 to up my game or wouldn't it do anything? I suppose it won't in BT mode, but when wired should I notice a huge difference? And I've read that this headphone has a build in DAC because that's needed for BT, so maybe just the AMP will be sufficient for it?
Great video. I appreciate your vids and how you cover these topics. You somehow manage to keep it simple while hitting all of the important tech points that we need to understand. Thank you Golden Sound!
I have sony mdr 7506... and they hugely benefit from an amp... now this could be a shortcoming of my motherboard audio. so that is something important to note. I got the Schiit magni unity with the dac option I gained better lows and highs and general clarity across the board over my motherboard soundcard... that said, things were still pretty good before... I wouldn't get the dac/amp for these headphones, I am waiting for my hifiman edition XS.
The things we have to research only to get Rick Rolled at times 😂. All i wanna do is listen to good music miaannnn
I wouldnt say that higher impedance headphones draw less current. Transducers are moved by current and they need enough of it so higher impedance headphones need more voltage to flow enough current. In other words yes they can draw less current at given voltage, but they can be underpowered when the voltage is too low. I =V/R, where R means load impedance (headphone). The higher the R is the lower the value of the current flow (as u said), so u need higher value of voltage to achieve good amount of current flow to the transducers.
So the max voltage of the amp is constant as you change the load (headphones)?
@@SlashThePriestnot sure if I understood your question correctly, but voltage will be attenuated by the volume knob (so it depends on the loudness you are listening on, using given headphones). I hope I dont say bullshit, though 😅
@@matusjurcik6974 Yes exactly, that was what I was trying to say with max voltage.
As long as you don't change anything but the headphones the voltage should be the same. The output of the amp is limited by the voltage, so if I wanted to calculate the power of an amp with different impedance (headphones) than the spec sheet of the amp I would be able to do so with Ohm's Law by assuming that the voltage is constant.
@@SlashThePriest ok :) my OG comment was purely, about ohm law though (without consideration of volume adjustability ,,feature,, of an amp). Its alright to send control questions, though. I do it all the time 😁
What's the tube in that little Schiit amp?
can anyone share a list of iems which doesnt require any dac/amp or any fancy stuff for listening on an normal iphone 14promax directly - am a newbie any pointers will be helpful - mainly for listening fun music - a common man question
Very enlightening video. Thanks! If you were a headphone amplifier, which one would you be?
Dude, I had to take notes like in school to break everything down and understand it, i need to retake my physics class :)
My ZMF Atriums sounded fine coming directly from my iPhone so what is the point of a DAC or headphone amp?
How can I connect headphones to my amp without the speakers muting? I have a Yamaha A S301. I just need the speakers to play at the same time as the speakers.
A question for the experts: Is the Ifi Zen Dac V2 powerful enough to power a Hifiman Edition XS? And does it absolutely need an external power pack, or is the power from the USB port sufficient?
Thanks :-)
Yes the Zen DAC is more than enough... The Edition XS requires 63.1mW of power to get to the standard 110dB SPL as listed by Golden Sound. The Zen DAC can do roughly 350mW into 32 Ohm so yes it should be able to run the Edition XS no problem
You don't necessarily use a dac to power your Headphones. Upgrading the quality of sound from your streaming device is the core issue ...
Often rather simple equipment like Røde AI-1 is sufficient.
The easiest way to read all these headphones amp power is in RMS. Seem none of these manufactures do and they are trying to hide it. They even listed in mw instead of watts just make it looks more powerful. Thousands milliwatts instead if just 1 or 2 watts.
I really enjoy your thorough descriptions. You have a way of delivering lots of information in an entertaining way!
All I wanted was a semi decent earphone
Why did I have to get this far😢
Is it a myth when ppl say x IEM requires this much power on specs, but in reality is much more power hungry to reach it's full potential, and requires instead of a BTR7, a FiiO M17 instead? Is that actually related to power, or just sound signature pairing/synergy, or even placebo? Or do headgear really require more power than their specs to reach their full potential?
Planars like current because of their low sensitivity and impedance which is a hard load for an amp to manage. Generally when we are talking about personal audio, the more power a device has, the more capacitance is likely to have. This gets more complicated when you move in to significantly more expensive products were they have relatively low output power, but extremely high current offset. Voltage is simply stored energy, its only job it supply the amount of current the headphone needs. This might be why its advantageous to buy a amp way way more powerful than you'll ever nee purely by its power rating, because the current is what is powering your headphone, which usally isn't stated on the spec sheet.
Thanks, that was a knowledgeable and succinct presentation. Very well done! Am wondering if a presentation on this topic with a small assortment of amps and headphones would be appropriate for events such as CanJam or other HiFi shows? There is nothing quite like personally engaging in the points mentioned, (watts, impedance and sensitivity), than through first hand experience for those new to the hobby that is a passion for many. Really enjoy the conversations between and collaborative attitude of the people on The Headphone Show.
I'd love to know what makes a headphone cost more or less? And does it always make it better?
This is an excellent premise for a video, and I'll be pitching this to our content lead!
Ever driven a Tesla or a Mercedes? Try it and you should know the answer of your question 🍻
Get a Mass Kobo 465 and you're one and one. You'll never need or want anything else.
Why don’t we get peak power information and only RMS? Wouldn’t it be useful to understand the dynamic or punch of an amp?
Because headphone manufacturers are disingenuous. They would give us the power vs distortion measurements too since they use spectrum analysers.
The crest factor (ratio of peak value to RMS value) of a sine wave is 1.414, so you with a RMS power rating you are getting 3dB less than the peak, but it's continuous. Sinusoids have very low crest factor versus music, and as a result sine tests are quite stressful on devices, so the distortion behavior you get with a high level sine is going to be meaningfully worse than what you'd get with a musical stimulus with the same peak level in almost all cases.
Can we have a database for THD vs Voltage?
I have resisted the urge of upgraditis with my amp because lots of people at release called it the last amp you will ever need (thx 789). I’ve seen certain audio reviewers say it’s boring or clinical but it has always worked for me and having 3 outputs that run simultaneously has been great for listening parties with guests. It can run my hd800, q701, hd650 and many others to ear bleeding levels at the same time😂
Your comment is completely meaningless
came for the reviews, stayed for the hi-fi science, left with no money
Instead of HI RES stickers they should make "Tungsten ready!" and "Susvara approved" stickers so people don't get confused, they can get a kickback from said companies.
I'm still completely confused.
I can listen you day and night.
Nicely Done.
Since your asking.
How about a video taking tier groups of iems & headphone (well known ) priced from $50- & up
and pair them with a dac/amp price appropriate for that specific gear.
Showing how an inexpensive stack will handle the iem or headphone just fine and what a tier up in price offers :)
Including the info. from this video and the power calculator :)
Thanks
Loads of highly experienced freaks have long shared that sort of knowledge since the dawn of the Internet 😎🎼👀🎶
It is incorrect that the volume knob adjusts gain. As you said later in the video, for most amps it adjusts attenuation of the input signal. Also, putting your amp in high gain will not change the specs of the amp, but it will allow you achieve higher wattage. So if your cans are not getting loud enough, changing the gain setting to high might help. Nice video otherwise. Love the Audio Precision graphs.
To clarify, whilst the fixed-gain stage is not having its gain altered, the gain of the product as a whole is. Attenuation of a signal is negative gain.
This was said in reference to the product as a whole
In a "typical" amplifier, higher gain settings mean lower feedback, so you do actually have some theoretical change in specifications even aside the gain. Now, will you see this? In most amps, the dominant factors limiting performance aren't inside the feedback loop anyway, so typically not - but it's in about the same technicality space as looking at the circuit gain rather than the "black box" gain of an input to the amp vs. its output 😁
I never use my headphones without an amp.
Just buy an AGD Master9. Job done.
I just got 5 times more confused 😢
I want to buy a Senneihser HD 660 S 2 for listening songs and music from my mobile. Do I need an Amp for Senneihser HD 660 S 2?
Most likely you'll need a dac to achieve high quality sound, when streaming through your mobile..
Look into the quality of the dac in your mobile
Do a planar get sound from cellphone or dsd
For gaming... If you buy a mid level Sennheiser like the HD600 would you need an amp?
If there are other humans in your house have some consideration and Get a closed back. Even video games' soundtracks will sound better with a clean amp. Look at amps with thx
I came here in search of answers to whether or not I even need anything more than built in audio on PC for my skullcandy crusher evo's and I'm pretty sure this stuff is out of my league.
would love some explanation for the formula/equation used in your Headphones Power Calculator.
I've just found the equation to convert the sensitivity from dB/mW to dB/V:
SV = SP + 20•Log(sqrt(1000/Z)),
where Z is the headphones impedance.
just wondering about the formula for required Voltage and Current. while Power I believe is the result of V*A
Thanks in advance for the explanation!
Didn't understand anydamnthing
Yes you do need an amp no cap.
Unmatched for my HD58X is my Pioneer sa8800 - haven't found better for black background and simple WEIGHT of sound. I play at very low volumes.
Oh God, I;m so confused... Ok, I just bought the DT990 Pro's on sale from Beyerdynamic, for use with my laptop. I do not have an amp, interface or seperate DAC. I haven't received the phones yet, but now I am totally paranoid when I fire up my DAW, I will hear very little through the standard soundcard 3.5mm jack. And I have asked so many different people and got so many different answers. Someone even said without an Interface AND an amp, I'll hear basically nothing, while other people say It will be absolutely no problem whatsoever.
As I said, I am so confused!
Thank you for this ❤
Need? Probably not.
Want? Probably yes.
Why?
Don't love your money?
It's like wine. You enjoy to explore different grapes, taste, and their texture. My reference i HD-600 (open) and DT-150 (DT-100 pads, closed) and Etymotic ER2XR (IEM)
Hi, What you think about pairing Denon ah D 5200 and aune x1s GT pre amp dac`? do you have any recommends for those headphones? i have cables 4,4 mm so i prefer mostly same output amp. thank you. portable i have ifi hip da v3.
Just find this video,omg best explanation ever pal.I just start my hifi journey,hifiman sundara and I’m testing it with FiiO 7 and if zen dac,everyone say fiio is better cuz is more powerful but I also like zen dac and don’t feel
Like is not loud enough or lack of power.Did you maybe review zen dac?
how to choose one for your phone where it is a normal small headphone jack and how to know it will work'?
I got the Light Phone 2 and got all my Apple Music and podcasts on it as well some recordings from Logic Pro... Now I use the beyerdynamic DT 1770 PRO and want to use them as well as with my phone to listen to music...
One thing I still don't understand:
Is there a good reason to still buy and use an amp if I am using headphones which can be played at ample good enough volume across all my devices? Or maybe in more concrete terms, would something like Campfire Andromeda or the new Sony MDR-MV1 benefit from amp when both can be driven easily on a smartphone? Lots of people seem to suggest so, but what is the science behind that?
NOISE! Never mind the science. Isnt it enough for you to be told over and over again that phones and computers are horribly noisy? And we are not just telling you about audible noise (which may actually even be present). Get a separate dac/amp and you will hear for yourself.
Dac in your mobile often isn't of high quality...
What about use a AV Receiver, such as Marantz SR-7013, to drive wired headphones? Is it any good?
Does the Lotoo Mjolnir have enough power for most headphones? Or is it consider weak? What is average power and what is exceptional amounts of power?
Does it means that a Focal Utopia 2022 for example will sound fine even with a less powerful amplifier? Or even a dongle DAC/AMP like the iFi Go bar or the AudioQuest Cobalt will be more than enough?
Golden Sound - great video. I have Audeze LCD-5 headphones. My DAC is the Gustard X26Pro. I'm currently using an iFi iCan Pro Signature amp. Any suggestions on a new amp and or DAC to drive these cans? Thanks in advance.
Excellent video, but I kept waiting for that vacuum tube to get whacked, lol.
If I say that this video changed the WHOLE way I saw the power rating of amps - does that mean I have been a complete dunce up till this moment.
If it does ...then it does.
It also means that I am incredibly grateful not to be a dunce anymore.
That was quite long enough.
Thanks so much for making this video.
I suspect I was not the only dunce in the room. Haha.
More, please - remove my dunceness on all topics headphone!!
i didnt really get the part about planar (9:27)
so let me recap if i've understood correctly: so if i listen at 85db the bass region in most song could be at 20db higher due to human hear stuff, so i plug 110 db in the calculator to see if i can drive it in the full range
so in planar the bass is particulary hard to drive so the amp will output even more power towards those frequency and therefore i need an amp that drives cleanly even at higher power?
so in practice what happens and how i check this? i have a fosi audio q5 that is rated for 400mW @32ohm and i'm intrested in a
I can drive and enjoy 250 ohm Beyerdynamics with an Apple dongle, it’s just not as loud and dynamic as a proper setup
The thumbnail for this video made me chuckle. I mean this in no disrespect, but the picture reminded me of Elmo St. Peters from The Brave Little Toaster lol. Love your videos!!
High impedance means it doesn't draw enough power (but theoretically you could run lots of them in parallel on one amp so it's not the same as low sensitivity or efficiency). Low sensitivity means it needs lots (comparatively) of power to get loud, although sometimes sensitivity is measured in terms of voltage needed to get loud - which can also mean high impedance cans simply receiving less actual power, not just inefficiency.
Hmmm.. no matter waht .im still noob at this. My Amp 1.5W pairing with my Arya V2.
Great video ! 👏This is what everybody should watch before buying an headphone amp!
This was very helpful, thank you. However, I would really like to see you display some various spec sheets from different amps and headphones and stare and compare the voltages and wattage and sensitivity specs so we can take this theory and apply it to a real world shopping situations.
5:30 If anyone's got this down, care to explain?
How does higher gain not equal higher output voltage in this description? And how does it not alter power as consequence?
the thing that i don't understand is why does more gain not mean more power? doesn't power equal voltage X current, and gain increases the voltage? so there should be more power, i don't have a deep understanding of electricity and circuitry so bare with me, i understand the increase of noise floor and why that's bad so there's no need for an explanation there.