This is really good. I'm really glad that you focused more on current and output impedance, because I think most people think of amps as a tool for applying more voltage.
I never had the courage to tell anyone on HeadFi this, but back in 2003 I drove a Sennheiser HD600 directly from the line out of my parent's old Technics CD Player. I used a stereo RCA to headphone adapter that had a potentiometer on it for volume control. It sounded pretty darn good, and I didn't notice much difference from a cheap portable headamp I could afford at the time. Notably, the line out had no problems driving it to ear splitting volumes. Perhaps because the HD600 is high impedance. Or maybe I was accidentally altering the frequency response and solving the HD600's bass issues (although back in those days nobody complained about the HD600's bass output....it was "the veil" in the treble people complained about....and ironically people insisted the HD650 was less veiled when it came out, when FR graphs would later on show otherwise....shows how much we are influenced by wishful thinking / suggestion!)
You shouldn't be plugging anything into line out. That is exclusively designed to used with a preamp with a massive imput impedance, not a headphone. It will damage the amplifier.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez I'm not actively encouraging anyone to try this. I was in high school at the time, didn't know better, and it was a handmedown CD player of limited value.
@@fascinatedbyeverything also also didn't tell them not to. It's not well known what line out is. Techmo/ns vid/o on the subject has over 1.2m views. It's a pressing subject.
I feel like it was fine if you already had physics knowledge of sound and electricity but even still I’m not an audio electrical engineer so it wasn’t easy by any means
There's a PEMDAS error with the formula used and all the following examples that use the formula (the answers are still correct) The formula (at 5:01) should be Vdrop = V * Ro / (Ro + RL)
This series is such a fantastic visualiser for seemingly complicated topics that could be off-putting for those first getting into the hobby. Love the pacing & presentation + the digestible linear progression made possible by first explaining each concept in a vacuum before applying them to the rest of the system.
GoldenSound as a hifi Teacher! Sign me in to the class! These topics are so well explained! Finally I can easily understand those all complicated numbers of the hifi equipment! Thank you sensei!
Learning how much amp I actually need was quite reassuring. I’m going to stick to my Singxer SA1 for the foreseeable future and just get all the headphones I want. Golden Sound is an absolute treasure trove of digestible information and I appreciate his educational videos a lot. A gem in this hobby.
Absolutely love these videos Golden! You explain these complicated topics in an easy to understand way. You are an absolute asset to the audio community.
I would like a see a video about why audiohiles want "HiRes" files with a sample rate above 44.1 or 48kHz as theoretically it contains no additional audible information
Great job, just like your DAC one! One minor note. 4m in - it’s not so much that it’ll clip as you give it a low-Z load as it’s voltage will drop (see your next very nice few minutes). The magnitude of the wave on your right panel should be lower I believe.
I'm curious to see if Denon AVR receivers have "warmer" headphone amps like tube amps. I say that because my understanding is they create of the headphone out by simply stepping down the front mains, creating a fairly high impedance headphone output....Tube amps have higher impedance headphone outputs too
I've seen videos saying that if you want to mix audio on headphones then you simply have to have a half-decent headphone amp because the amps in most budget interfaces aren't good enough for monitoring through. So he's my setup; I'm running my Austrian Audio HiX65 headphones directly through the trusty Focusrite 2i2. I have already configured a Harman Curve EQ template for my DAW and it sounds great. Now, with all that do I still need to purchase a separate headphone amp to maximise what I have? And if so what is recommended for under US$200. I'm willing to pay more if there is a big leap up in quality. Thanks.
It would be amazing if you guys make some sort of audio gear link calculator to make the process of DAC-amp-headphones selection easy for non technically savvy users easy (i.e. include a dozen models of each category in pull down menus and when user selects one category the system presents best options in the other 2 cats)
Although I appreciate the explanation, I think this video elides the fact that all music playing devices, including laptops, DAPs, televisions, radios, game controllers, and indeed Bluetooth headphones, all contain their own amplifiers. So the answer to the question "do you need an amplifier?" is of course YES, but the answer to "do you need an amplifier beyond the one already in your device?" is much more complicated. For instance, I use a Sony DAP with my MDR-Z1R headphones via 4.4mm balanced connection. I can't run it at more than say 50/120 on the volume dial. Do I need an additional amplifier? I sure don't feel like I do. And I certainly don't feel like my resulting audio is distorted in any way. Now, I know the Z1R is relatively "easy to drive." Other headphones are less so. But I also use my Sony DAP with my Aeon Closed X, which people swear are "hard to drive," and while indeed I do have to turn the volume dial on my DAP to, say, 70/120, the resulting sound is still superb. Do I need an additional amplifier? It sure doesn't seem like it. What is the purported relationship between "headroom" and audio quality? If my device gets my headphones loud enough, how will I know when I actually need an additional amplifier? How can one tell when a signal is being distorted?
Excellent video. One suggestion. Slow down your presentation. This is very technical information for most of us that needs time to soak in. My two cents worth.
Question, Fiio K11 R2R or SMSL DO400? I am running between hd800s and arya stealth, and it's mainly for gaming with movies and music every now and then. I saw yall talking about how headroom is bad in a way, and I know that the do400 has a much higher output so now yall got me thinking that extra juice is actually juicing me vs the 1/3 the price Fiio.
Can you go a little more in depth about that voltage drop formula? I think there is a piece of information that I am missing because I am not getting the same results when I try to do the calculations! It seems like the two output impedances should cancel each other out unless I'm missing something.
I am new to the hobby, but I have been researching for a long time and I still do not understand how two people give me different words when asking or searching for one thing. It is not a matter of taste, but rather things that everyone must agree on because they are constants and not taste, such as does a sound change when a voice is changed? DAC AMP Some swear that it may make the headphones sound different, and some say they are all one, so this is one topic. How is there a contradictory answer? Injecting this causes a lot of fatigue and misunderstanding for new speakers.
Hello Noobie............ All hifi gear can and is "voiced" by the manufacturer, both with or without intent, simply by parts or design choices. Get it? Need clarification? Anything else? lol......... Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpHiFi Including HIFI does not change the fact that you are a foolish child who tries to use LOL in everything, and it does not make you a professional or cool person lol🤡
Applies the same voltage pattern, but with more current i.e. the power needed for a given speaker to make the volume (wiggly air pressure) it's designed for.
In a previous life you must have been a boffin, maybe working for England in the late 1930s to perfect the predecessor to radar. Resolve would be the head friar of a learned order of monks and Blaine was Roman Emperor, decadent and dangerous. Listener would have been an art critic from ancient Greece.
This was way too complex as well as the DACS video, I understood it vaguely, it took a lot of rewinding to grasp just some of it at a very basic level, still very informative, for simpletons like myself who only understands the basics of audio I'm willing to learn as I have learning disabilities and a low I.Q. but I like to learn more about audio because I want to get the best audio experience for my music.
@arielext which is completely unfair, disingenuous and misleading. Especially in the section about do you need a headphone amp. As you do NOT need buy a headphone amp if you have the RME.
These topics are great!
not as great as you
This is really good. I'm really glad that you focused more on current and output impedance, because I think most people think of amps as a tool for applying more voltage.
The main thing is always current sometimes achieved by high voltage (voltage amps vs current amps).
Good stuff, Golden. Hope you keeps this educational videos coming for people like me who only recently got into the hobby.
I never had the courage to tell anyone on HeadFi this, but back in 2003 I drove a Sennheiser HD600 directly from the line out of my parent's old Technics CD Player. I used a stereo RCA to headphone adapter that had a potentiometer on it for volume control. It sounded pretty darn good, and I didn't notice much difference from a cheap portable headamp I could afford at the time. Notably, the line out had no problems driving it to ear splitting volumes.
Perhaps because the HD600 is high impedance. Or maybe I was accidentally altering the frequency response and solving the HD600's bass issues (although back in those days nobody complained about the HD600's bass output....it was "the veil" in the treble people complained about....and ironically people insisted the HD650 was less veiled when it came out, when FR graphs would later on show otherwise....shows how much we are influenced by wishful thinking / suggestion!)
You shouldn't be plugging anything into line out. That is exclusively designed to used with a preamp with a massive imput impedance, not a headphone. It will damage the amplifier.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez I'm not actively encouraging anyone to try this. I was in high school at the time, didn't know better, and it was a handmedown CD player of limited value.
@@fascinatedbyeverything also also didn't tell them not to. It's not well known what line out is. Techmo/ns vid/o on the subject has over 1.2m views. It's a pressing subject.
Thank God this video came with a pause button.
The pacing seemed a touch fast, even with coffee!
😂
0.25x 😅
Yeah definitely too fast. Fortunately we can slow it down via RUclips features,
I feel like it was fine if you already had physics knowledge of sound and electricity but even still I’m not an audio electrical engineer so it wasn’t easy by any means
There's a PEMDAS error with the formula used and all the following examples that use the formula (the answers are still correct)
The formula (at 5:01) should be Vdrop = V * Ro / (Ro + RL)
Make sure everyone to upgrade the firmware in your transducers to this formula for even better sound!
This series is such a fantastic visualiser for seemingly complicated topics that could be off-putting for those first getting into the hobby. Love the pacing & presentation + the digestible linear progression made possible by first explaining each concept in a vacuum before applying them to the rest of the system.
Nice work! I was just trying to explain this in a simplified way in a video and you've done a great job of it.
need more info about tube sound and tube design ( so far amazng videos )
GoldenSound as a hifi Teacher! Sign me in to the class! These topics are so well explained! Finally I can easily understand those all complicated numbers of the hifi equipment! Thank you sensei!
Great vid... I wish I had this years ago when I got started into the hobby. I was so lost for a long time before it finally clicked.
Learning how much amp I actually need was quite reassuring. I’m going to stick to my Singxer SA1 for the foreseeable future and just get all the headphones I want. Golden Sound is an absolute treasure trove of digestible information and I appreciate his educational videos a lot. A gem in this hobby.
Absolutely love these videos Golden! You explain these complicated topics in an easy to understand way. You are an absolute asset to the audio community.
This and DMS perfect headphone 30s series is what I need more in my life
I would like a see a video about why audiohiles want "HiRes" files with a sample rate above 44.1 or 48kHz as theoretically it contains no additional audible information
They allow for varying stylistic choices for your listening space and knob feels by preference👍
Amazing videos Golden, love the way you present it, especially the added humor makes it digestible and a great watch.
Thanks 👍
Thanks guys!! This is great content!
Great job, just like your DAC one! One minor note. 4m in - it’s not so much that it’ll clip as you give it a low-Z load as it’s voltage will drop (see your next very nice few minutes). The magnitude of the wave on your right panel should be lower I believe.
Thank you. 😊😊
Great Video. I just don’t know how many dozen times I have to watch it until I understand it 😂
Today I finally learned what a preamp is/is for
Excellent Video!
I'm curious to see if Denon AVR receivers have "warmer" headphone amps like tube amps. I say that because my understanding is they create of the headphone out by simply stepping down the front mains, creating a fairly high impedance headphone output....Tube amps have higher impedance headphone outputs too
I've seen videos saying that if you want to mix audio on headphones then you simply have to have a half-decent headphone amp because the amps in most budget interfaces aren't good enough for monitoring through.
So he's my setup; I'm running my Austrian Audio HiX65 headphones directly through the trusty Focusrite 2i2. I have already configured a Harman Curve EQ template for my DAW and it sounds great. Now, with all that do I still need to purchase a separate headphone amp to maximise what I have?
And if so what is recommended for under US$200. I'm willing to pay more if there is a big leap up in quality.
Thanks.
Good video .... Nicely explained ... Thank you.
It would be amazing if you guys make some sort of audio gear link calculator to make the process of DAC-amp-headphones selection easy for non technically savvy users easy (i.e. include a dozen models of each category in pull down menus and when user selects one category the system presents best options in the other 2 cats)
Missed the chance to use Theoden's (mind controlled by Saruman) speech "You have no power here !" . Very good video anyway 😊
Although I appreciate the explanation, I think this video elides the fact that all music playing devices, including laptops, DAPs, televisions, radios, game controllers, and indeed Bluetooth headphones, all contain their own amplifiers. So the answer to the question "do you need an amplifier?" is of course YES, but the answer to "do you need an amplifier beyond the one already in your device?" is much more complicated.
For instance, I use a Sony DAP with my MDR-Z1R headphones via 4.4mm balanced connection. I can't run it at more than say 50/120 on the volume dial. Do I need an additional amplifier? I sure don't feel like I do. And I certainly don't feel like my resulting audio is distorted in any way.
Now, I know the Z1R is relatively "easy to drive." Other headphones are less so. But I also use my Sony DAP with my Aeon Closed X, which people swear are "hard to drive," and while indeed I do have to turn the volume dial on my DAP to, say, 70/120, the resulting sound is still superb. Do I need an additional amplifier? It sure doesn't seem like it.
What is the purported relationship between "headroom" and audio quality? If my device gets my headphones loud enough, how will I know when I actually need an additional amplifier? How can one tell when a signal is being distorted?
There is an older video on this channel (also made by GoldenSound) that covers these topics. Search for "do I need an amp".
Excellent video. One suggestion. Slow down your presentation. This is very technical information for most of us that needs time to soak in. My two cents worth.
Question, Fiio K11 R2R or SMSL DO400? I am running between hd800s and arya stealth, and it's mainly for gaming with movies and music every now and then. I saw yall talking about how headroom is bad in a way, and I know that the do400 has a much higher output so now yall got me thinking that extra juice is actually juicing me vs the 1/3 the price Fiio.
Can you go a little more in depth about that voltage drop formula? I think there is a piece of information that I am missing because I am not getting the same results when I try to do the calculations! It seems like the two output impedances should cancel each other out unless I'm missing something.
is there a longer and more detailed version of this video
Listen at 0.75 speed
It's much better to use EQ than High impedance amplifiers as a pseudo EQ. With EQ you can get exactly the boost you want and not take potluck.
1:16 "sew" God damnit that was beautiful
I LOVE that McIntosh tube amp!! Dear Santa Claus.
Empties our wallets
Our impedance of bank balance fluctuations is low.
I am new to the hobby, but I have been researching for a long time and I still do not understand how two people give me different words when asking or searching for one thing. It is not a matter of taste, but rather things that everyone must agree on because they are constants and not taste, such as does a sound change when a voice is changed? DAC AMP Some swear that it may make the headphones sound different, and some say they are all one, so this is one topic. How is there a contradictory answer? Injecting this causes a lot of fatigue and misunderstanding for new speakers.
Hello Noobie............
All hifi gear can and is "voiced" by the manufacturer, both with or without intent, simply by parts or design choices.
Get it? Need clarification? Anything else? lol.........
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpHiFi Including HIFI does not change the fact that you are a foolish child who tries to use LOL in everything, and it does not make you a professional or cool person lol🤡
Maybe dumb question, but:
if high driver impedance = lower current reqirements, then why even build low impedance transducers?
what would you recommend for a S+ tier budge friendly amp that can power all headphone properly even the previous gen susvara
JDS Atom Amp 2 will be sufficient for basically any headphone out there (maybe excluding Modhouse Tungsten depending on your listening volume).
Troll comment
Just what I need
ᵀᴱᴱᴺʸ ᵂᴱᴱᴺʸ ᴮᴵᵀˢ
What's the reference to the woman with a sewing machine?
Talking about the RME ADI-2 as if it has no amp raises some questions, better swap it to a dac only device next time
I will be disappointed if there's not a James Burke parody video at the end of October. *wink, wink 😁 Great Vid!
So will the RME will be fine on it's own?
for most, if not all headphones: yes
It amplifies.
No further questions.
thanks captain obvious!
steal yo money
I got my doctorate from watching these videos
heylo
👍🌟👍
This video will make your food taste better
For those who do not have 7 minutes to spare: They amplify
Back to basic
Want loud volume
Need amplifier
Same like motorcycle
Want more speed
Buy superbike.
Electrickery is the death of me
the reason people like the bassboost on hd800 is because hd800 inherently has no bass or lowmids lol
well, so in short... Amplifier amplifies our volume on headphone/speaker?
Applies the same voltage pattern, but with more current i.e. the power needed for a given speaker to make the volume (wiggly air pressure) it's designed for.
What does an amplifier actually do-do, do-do-do-do-do-do-do...
TLDR; Topping A90D
In a previous life you must have been a boffin, maybe working for England in the late 1930s to perfect the predecessor to radar. Resolve would be the head friar of a learned order of monks and Blaine was Roman Emperor, decadent and dangerous. Listener would have been an art critic from ancient Greece.
Do you need a Dac next please
How about gain on software like viper4android. It make Iem volume more louder
It's just compressing the dynamic range.
That is just compression... The music is mostly already compressed to shit already... You're just making it worse
Does enjoshi-godrez8775 ever STFU?
This was way too complex as well as the DACS video, I understood it vaguely, it took a lot of rewinding to grasp just some of it at a very basic level, still very informative, for simpletons like myself who only understands the basics of audio I'm willing to learn as I have learning disabilities and a low I.Q. but I like to learn more about audio because I want to get the best audio experience for my music.
But that's a preamp? 😂😢😅
basically it’s a smaller amp that takes a *really* tiny signal, like one from a phono cartridge or microphone capsule, and boosts it to line level.
2:13
Calling BS on this, RME Adi 2 DAC headphone output has 150 ohm OI? Are you out of your mind or don't know how to measure OI?
I think he's only looking at the line-out and not the headphones out, treating the RME as a DAC only device.
@arielext which is completely unfair, disingenuous and misleading. Especially in the section about do you need a headphone amp. As you do NOT need buy a headphone amp if you have the RME.
@@HyperOpticalSaintI fully agree