Cables CAN make a difference, but should you care?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- There are a lot of opinions about headphone cables. Some people swear by them and others think it's just snake oil. In this video, Resolve dives into this controversy and examines if headphone cables can make a tangible difference and whether or not they're a good way to 'level up' your headphone setup.
Skedra's cables: vikingweavecables.com/
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00:00 - Intro
00:15 - The big question about cables
01:07 - The crazy audiophile cable
03:24 - PROOF there's a difference
04:26 - It's all about impedance
07:07 - When is it snake oil?
09:45 - Key takeaways
Probably worth noting: The impedance of the CA1A is 0.2 Ohms. Roughly 160-3000 times lower than other headphones.
When Resolve says that you need a low impedance headphone for cables to make a difference, that's not meaning 63 Ohm or something, the reason the cable makes a difference here is because the cable could actually be almost the same impedance as the headphones themselves.
With any normal headphones you'd need an outright broken cable to get obvious differences
or differences at all, especially about material(snake oil)
@@tradfi950 your comment is hard copium.
this
Yea, if you wanted that kind of change, just add an inline resistor to the cable and you basically have the same effect.
@@rene837 yep its about feel and look of the cable but I also notice difference between copper and silver cables 😂 call me stupid but silver cables sparkle better at highs and tighten the bass
As a cable-maker, I 100% agree with Resolve here. Rather than trying to "EQ" with my cables, I optimize for 1) Reliability w/ good connectors, 2) Shielding, 3) Ergonomics, 4) Asthetics
The "shielding" part is often the overlooked part that matters most after reliable connections and low R/C/Z......
If i need shielding i use aluminum foil….
Not on an hat but on the cable😅 cheap and very helpful!
I made a connector for ur mom
@@Ezees23 Indeed! Shielding totally makes for an audible difference.
@@lazarus1194how are you grounding the shield?
Fact: IEM eartips influence frequency response more than $5k USD Effect Audio IEM cables.
That come with a display case, btw. A display case. For a cable.
ROFL!
you can put your old one in it to show of
those cables do look beautiful a lot of the time. craftsmanship is off the charts, but not $5000 off…
Yeah I find tip rolling does more than the cables but I also like a good looking cable.
@@pjmt29 ditto! I do love me some aesthetic expression 🥰
Joke's on you. My Stax don't have detachable cables. get rekt
Stax supremacy 😎♥️
Mod them
😂🤣
There are currently Stax models with a detachable cable. Get up to date.
😂
This company’s continued willingness to deeply criticize, and in this case actively debunk products, they themselves sell, reflects incredibly well on their integrity.
Which company??
@@breh9320 yours
@@breh9320 this youtube channel has a store too.
We supply iems for onstage for opening acts and local acts and studio filming also. Every Iem we have has an upgraded cable. The biggest reason for this is the stock cables are usually uncomfortable to wear, and give the Iem a “cheap “ look also. Comfort, being very soft and pliable is a must if you’re performing onstage for three hours.
You should look at the Truthear Hola stock cable 😊
@@athenovae I’ve got that one on the way right now to test. After watching one of the videos of it online I thought it would be great to have one with a decent cable. If it’s really good it’s too bad they don’t sell it separately. We buy a dozen at a time in each color. The Zonie cable works great for the budget iems like 7hz, Wan’er, QKZ-HBB, etc, and comes in six colors and different connections. We’ve got about $40-$50 in each budget unit with cable upgrade and Comply foam tips. I will be stage testing the HM Pro, the Zero, the Hola, the Cadenza, the Khan, the Truthears Zero, The Hexa, and a few more over the next few weeks . Then we’ll go up to the mid level. We just occasionally furnish high end units as most clients of that caliber have their own or customs, but we stock a few just in case. I’m looking forward to that Hola, be here Monday. All the best, Sonny T
@@thesonnytackettshow7949 that’s awesome! Can’t wait to hear how it goes. All the ones you’ve listed have “the audiophile approval”, but would be interested to hear from the stage-use end ☺️
and ooh look at 64 audio's stock cables? for more than $2 grand it makes me wanna cry.
@@athenovae yeah that Hola cable is pretty cool. Here’s our take on cables! We change the stock ones out for upgrade cables because most stock cables are rough against the skin , and 4hours onstage can get uncomfortable. The Zonie cable is $17 and soft and looks good. So; does a high end cable make a difference? Very little at all if it’s under 2 meters. But if that same cable is 20+ ft, that’s when you start to hear differences. It’s the same with speaker cables, line and mic cables, etc. For instance ,A 20’ speaker cable on a speaker , the speaker has an Spl of 100. Put a 100’ cable on that speaker and the Spl will drop to 95? Same goes for in ears, except the cable is so short there’s hardly any difference. There’s a drummer we deal with that uses iems but uses a cable instead of a pack, total about 30’. His feed is about 1/4 more in gain and volume than the other members. At 4’ , you’re not Goinna hear any difference, so yeah, comfort and build quality are mainly why we upgrade our cables, not sound. All the best, Sonny T
Got awfully close to a Zeos reveal there.
So well put. I appreciate the clarity of your language in explaining your findings. I've heard clear differences when cable swapping in only two major cases, also involving low impedance (but not ultra-low) headphones: the meze 99 classics and AB-1266 TC. The rest of the other cans I've owned/tried had negligible differences when cable swapping
negligible AUDIBLE differences in near-term comparison, does not equate to long-term favorability of the whole musical experience, since we can't consciously differentiate but a mere fraction of the whole experience
@@PartyMusic775 Please, go on
This is something that really needed to be said. A case of "yes it 'can'... but you shouldn't worry about it too much"
Thanks for covering this
Great explainer and diagrams. Thank you!
Three things I’ve learned not to discuss with other people:
Politics
Religion
Cables
This was an outstanding analysis and valuable perspective. I’m so burnt out on the topic but glad I watched. Thank you.
You weren’t burned out on the topic. The topic just needed to be burned in. 😈
@@radioactivehalfrhyme Indeed😆
Oh look, April came early this year! :) Nice video, really liked it.
Please please please, make a video comparing single ended and balanced output (at same power) to tell us if balanced is always better for headphones!
Outside of noise, any differences in sound quality are due to the circuit designs themselves, rather than SE/BAL having some inherent difference. In other words, if a piece of gear has an awesome BAL output but the SE output sounds like crap, that's because the designer simply implemented a crappy SE circuit... nothing to do with SE inherently. Best bet is to read reviews and get as much feedback as you can on a piece of gear to determine whether its outputs are well-designed
@@FireStorm4056 agreed. It's gonna be a way too broad of a topic to cover as it'll vary so much from one amp to the other. Typically we should fix the budget of the amp, and see what falls in that range, then see if SE or BAL sounds good on those amps, not choose BAL blindly coz so someone said something about cross cable interference
I've been very confusing with impedances and how they can be affected by additional sources whether it's adapters, cables, etc... This helped. Thanks.
I was skeptical, but this convinced me to take the plunge and order my very own JPS Labs Aluminata cable. For a cool $11,000 I cannot wait to hear the "total lack of spectral smearing of highs and lack of midrange glare, with an ability to extend yet define low bass frequency like no other AC chord", all thanks to their proprietary "Optimized Field Matrix" and End of Line technology which "dissipates reflections within the chord itself, allowing bass to sound tight and detailed while clearing the air in the mids and highs".
Best money I've ever spent, thank you guys.
LOL
Ooh I'm going to look into that
Amazing lol
Hahaha perfect take on this nonsense
But if you listened to the video, you never would have spent that money…
Hi Andrew, Great review. Just checking if Meze 109 Pro will benefit with a cable change?
It would be great for you to take on the issues of balanced vs. unbalanced next. Perhaps burn in too.
It would be cool to see a guidance video on solid state dac/amp stacks. I am getting very confused by all these discussions about spl, how much watt do I need for headphone sensitivity/impedance, and also about headphone power calculators showing that some amp and headphone combination will produce too much noise, but can't you regulate this with a volume knob?
On some amps you'll find you only have to move the volume knob a quarter turn before you take you eardrums out. You also pick up lots of hiss. I've got ifi iematch 4.4mm plugged into Naim Atom HE so that I can run super sensitive IEM from it without hiss. Volume on that can be capped so thats less of an issue.
The key thing is to soak the cable in snake oil for two weeks. That’s when the magic happens.
Do you know where I can buy a jarr?
The only time I've noticed a tangible difference was with the stock fidelio x1 cable which was extremely long and fairly high impedance. There was a few forum posts around at the time, though no one wanted a heavy 3 meter skipping rope cable regardless.
Terrific video, thanks for posting! Can you do a similar video about cable geometry and RF rejection? Is that a myth, or is there data to support it? I’m thinking if what Galen Gareis is studying over at Belden.
Your video helped me understand a lot, thanks
Thanks for the confirming my experience as well…
… and now… when to expect a difference between SE and balanced…
I'm a sound engineer and I work a lot with Eq. Frequency response on 2 headphones like Hifiman edition XS and Arya can be really close. But I think that if you match exactly the eq on both, the Arya will still have more definition, separation, resolution... is there a reliable way to mesure why Arya sound better? I was very skeptical on interconnect wires but when I finally compare lo and hi tiers audioquest cables, there was an audible difference that I can not match with professional eq... BUT I would not pay crazy money for wires because mastering have WAY more impact on my enjoyment! And that is why I love the mojo's 2 eq ;)
Good enlightening vid, thanks.
For reference a copper wire 0.5mm in diameter has a resistance of 0.087 Ohms/m.
I really appreciate you folks making a real effort to look into the cable thing. However, I do think that assuming frequency response is the only possible measurement that could show a difference between headphone cables could be missing other measurements that might show a difference. For example, your colleague, GoldenSound, rightfully often complains about amp manufacturers measuring THD at 1 kHz, for example (if I remember correctly), and notes that this value may be completely different at other frequencies. Similarly, we could pretend that "bits are bits" and claim that all digital-domain equipment is the same, and that all digital cables, transports, etc, are the same so long as 1's and 0's make it across uncorrupted - but that's not the right measurement for that circumstance. To be sure, I think frequency response is interesting to look at, but there are so many other possibilities. Music isn't a sine sweep. What about impulse response? What about distortion across the frequency spectrum, perhaps as multiple frequencies are played at once? I just think it's too simplistic to call the matter solved, especially when so many other cables (interconnects, speaker cables, etc) make such an obvious, audible difference.
In order for it to make an audible difference in terms of harmonic distortion products, something would have to be VERY weird/wrong with it. As for impulse response, it doesn't tell us anything not already available in FR. The reality for this stuff is that while sometimes it might seem like there's more going on than FR, that's really the key metric for good reason. Where the analysis breaks down is that what you see on an FR graph isn't necessarily how you'll perceive it, because headphone behavior can vary substantially depending on the head that wears them.
So true...
@@ResolveReviews ABC
So, I’d be curious to know why you’d say frequency response is the “key” metric when there is so much it doesn’t sufficiently describe. I’m not suggesting I necessarily know what the right metric is, but I do feel I know that FR isn’t enough. For example, I think everyone would agree that a Utopia EQ’d to look exactly like an LCD-4 won’t sound like an LCD-4 (or vice versa). And what about DACs? Would a Mojo providing a sine sweep produce the same FR as a Dave? Probably, but would you argue they’re the same DAC? What about analogue interconnects, digital interconnects, and power cables? Would swapping any of those out produce a different headphone FR - at least one sufficiently distinguishable from seating variation? Probably not, but I don’t assume you’ll debate that all of those are snake oil. Ultimately, FR response is a (good) tool in the toolbelt, but not one that will describe many intricacies that can exist between components. As such, the only fair assessment that can be made is that headphone cables do not alter FR (for higher impedance headphones) in a meaningful way, which is a statement *only* about FR, and not enough to say that they don’t (or do) affect microdetail, jitter, transparency, noise rejection, distortion, etc - all of which can noticeably affect the end result. This is the mistake that ASR makes time and time again - thinking that one or two measurements are able to describe everything that can be heard. I appreciate and support the effort to lend objective credence to anything, but it’s important to not overstate results that are, by definition, incomplete.
@@ResolveReviews First of all, I really respect your effort in general and this video in particular. I'd like to dive deeper into this topic. Supposing the FR metric shows all that's necessary and EQing the FR of your headphones is almost everything, does it mean that you can transform, let's say, Hifiman Sundaras into Final D8000 just with EQ? And if you could somehow use the same pads with the same clamping force from the headband, would they sound perfectly the same? I mean, maybe they would, I don't know, but I'd really like to.
@@zemessargs So, I'm sympathetic to the idea that there's more to this stuff than what our current ANALYSIS of FR is able to make sense of, and by that I mean that what you see on a graph doesn't perfectly predict what the experience is going to be. The reason for this is that headphones behave differently depending on the head that they're on, and that includes the measurement rig - and so by all accounts there could be something else going on at the ear drums of individual people that explains that missing info, especially the fine-grained elements. This is also why you can't EQ a Utopia to look exactly like an LCD-4 and expect them to sound the same - you don't know what their respective FR is going to be at YOUR ear drum. Now, when faced with the problem of graphs not predicting these subjective elements of the experience, it's common for folks to try to look for other metrics that may fill in the gap, but time-based views like CSD or IR and so on (square wave)... they're literally just different, worse ways of looking at FR. Fix the FR peak and it fixes the 'ringing' you see in CSD, because headphones in general are minimum phase devices. And for every time you think you can correlate something, there's immediately a counterexample. The only time there might be something unpleasant going on that's indicated by a different metric would be to do with excess group delay, meaning it's not strictly minimum phase. But you wouldn't even need to look at the CSD to determine that.
To answer the second part.... between a Mojo and a Dave, yeah the FR would be the same, but... without doing an ABX test it's not really possible to determine if they sound the same to people. My gut tells me folks would have a hard time telling them apart in a blind test, even if the DACs themselves are different. But, I also haven't done that test. I HAVE tested a lot of expensive source equipment, and generally find there's no meaningful difference, except in cases where we'd expect there to be a difference - like with certain topologies pairing well/poorly with a given set of headphones, output impedance synergies, or tube amps for example.
This reminds me a little bit about cables for guitars. Only guitarists are looking for cables that don't affect the tone. For those who are not familiar: guitarists are looking for cables with the lowest possible capacitance. The reason is (simplified) higher capacitance - more roll-off at the high frequencies. Of course, sometimes, this effect is desired. But this is an exception to the rule, for guitars who know what they want and what they are doing. So what can increase capacitance? Long cables, coiled cables, or just poor-quality cables (clarification: good quality, lowest capacitance cable can be made for 3$ per meter + 8$ for 2 high-quality mono jacks, so rather cheaply + soldering skills and time).
Conclusion? Headphone cables are overpriced and it is hilarious that musicians are doing everything they can to make sure that cables do not affect the sound, yet audiophiles are looking for cables that do change the sound.
Funny things is, I posted a comment on the subreddit r/headphones a few months ago in that I said that cables can make a difference in certain scenarios, especially with highly sensitive/low impedance drivers of IEMs and was downvoten into oblivion by people who have no clue what they were talking about ^^
@Sam W no they think it literally doesn't make a difference. They were objectively wrong. Stop defending erroneous conjecture even if its what you want to hear.
@Sam W I was pretty clear in my comment that the only difference is due to the added resistance in front of the low impedance drivers and that such cables basically behaving the same way as high output impedance sources. I guess people were just mad that I challenged their opinion with reason.
@@rene837 But how low impedance did you mean? Even very low impedance IEMs won't show any measurable difference with different cables.
These headphones are less than 1 ohm and that's a really rare scenario.
@@ElvenSpellmaker they will show a measurable difference. All impedance changes do. Keep coping about your erroneous grift.
@Sam W aw, you had to add a clause to justify your bullshit 😂. All headphones are effected by impedance deltas. We can hear differences in audible thresholds way smaller than the 2 to 3db in the video.
Any chance you can do a video on expensive speaker cables and weather or not they make a difference?
What camera and mic set up do you use? It is how I would like my YT channel to be set up. Looks great. Is there a link or reference video/post about this? I’d love to know! Thank you
Very interesting. Shall we assume then that speakers with impedance below 8 ohms will be more susceptible to changes in frequency response by changing cables with measurable inductance, impedance and resistance?
not only cables, many people even can't tell the sound difference in filter that come with dac chips such as low pass filter, hybrid etc.
This^^^ depends on the rest of the chain's resolving capabilites, the resolution of the HPs/speakers, and the listener's acuity and experience......
Resolve,sir,i enjoy the elegia as a great closed back can but my open back is the audeze sine DX,not really a popular choice but it does a just what i want it to do…..now im mild to moderately deaf and a composer and performer ,a professional musician,and the elegia does an amazing thing for my hearing it corrects the frequencies im lacking,the consonants become clearer etc…..im in love with the elegia,thankyou focal!!
Ive been deaf since birth so there are sounds,textures ,frequencies that ive never heard that other people know and love….and yet i write hits,that have great melodies….
I guess you might say i can when im mastering and in production mixing the final cut(from old dat tape and 8 inch audio tape days,cut and paste or tape together audio splices )i am pedantic and obsessional about frequencies and certain audio being clean so clean ,and yet ive found a certain amount of dirt in audio keeps it enjoyable but a truly clean recording can be a joy ecstatically as well(audio ecstasy)
This is a very informative video, thank you for your beautiful tasty objectivity
i think this is a good video covering when it can make a difference and how it will not matter for most people....
In my opinion, it would be better to just doing EQ and there would be a big difference than expecting to get a big difference from only after market's cable. Well, if you already know what you are doing when you buy cable especially expensive one, so yeah it will be great for your setup.
What cable do you recommend for the Audeze LCD-X and MM-500’s?
I changed my hd 600 cable for an older hd 650 cable,didn't realy compare then so I don't know if it's different,it's thikker .does anyone have an advice for an affordable alternative cable that improves the sound
Thx greatings alex
My Sundara comes with really stiff and very short cable. What cable should I buy? Or where should I looking for cables?
I am someone who buys new cables with almost every headphone, but only for the reason that most stock headphone cables suck. They're often either too stiff or make noises in your headphone when they rub against your clothes, or both and are too long or too short almost every time.
Nice video with great information... Concerning cables, I am more interested in the pros & cons of balanced cables vs. single-ended cables, regarding their performance capabilities...
The advantage with true balanced cables and Quad balanced cables compared to SE cables is mainly external noise. Balanced cables removes most, quad removes even more. A simple test you can do at home is lay the cables on a powerbrick that is in use 🙂
Balanced cables are more sensitive to how its coiled when in recording/live work, but for home hifi that wont be a problem.
As a recording engineer I always keep the SE lengths as short as possible and always use balanced when possible
@@BehrensTrumpet
Your reply is greatly appreciated... thanks a lot...!!!
@@BehrensTrumpet To be fair, this is pretty much only true between devices, 'balanced' sound from an amp to a transducer does not have CMNR. It's just power delivery, which CAN benefit some extremely low-sensitive headphones like HE6/Susvara/1266 if you're lacking on SE.
Or if the amp is designed around balanced output, then oftentimes that output is engineered a little better than the SE output. But it depends on the individual device for that part.
@@KaneAmaroq That's why I say "True balanced". So called "balanced" cables between amp and headphones is not really balanced. It's basically just mono block amping and each channel has its own + and - or power and ground.
"Balanced" headphone cables and amps are really only usefull for "cleaner" power through f.ex.
less electrical crosstalk and usually more watt power.
Put simply, if you increase your cable impedence from near null to several ohms, you're changing the power your HPA can provide. Some amps like the Topping A90D give the most power at around 12 Ohm, whereas the L70 gives most power at around 30 Ohm.
What was the impedence of that big hefty canble? I could see it adding enough impedence to better optimize the impedence load for maximum power. Practically speaking, that would explain why you got similar FR with greater volume.
As was mentioned in the video, I do not believe that the cable material or size makes any audible difference to the vast majority of headphones. However, I do believe in buying customs cables for their increased build quality, materials, aesthetics and overall improvement to the quality of life. As I am sure plenty of us know that sometimes OEM cables can be stiff, springy or just bad quality and that buying a nice replacement cable can make the whole headphone use experience much better.
Before this video you would of said no headphone at all. You are just back peddling. Its really obvious.
@@timpecker2527 I can't help but be somewhat confused with what you are saying? What I am saying in my comment is that having a nice cable that is softer and more malleable improves on the experience as they are simply nicer to use, I just don't believe they make any audible sound difference.
@@bradengould609 but thats factually wrong. Humans are able to hear extremely minuite differences in volume at FR peaks. Far far smaller than the 2 to 4 db differences seen in the video. Something like a campfire Andromeda will absolutely be effected by cables with different impedance loads. Resolve already talked about this in this comment section. There's no opinion here, you are wrong.
@@enjoshi-godrez8775 I am not trying to be factual I am just stating that I (myself, not any other person) cannot make out a difference in the audible capabilities of aftermarket cables. This isn't to say that on a headphone like the ones in the video with very low impedance that I wouldn't notice any difference, just on the headphones I use I never thought I could notice a difference. Maybe I could have been clearer in my original message that I do not deny the facts that the cables can change the sound signatures, I just guess my hearing isn't good enough.
Never realised how controversial the quality of my hearing could be, but the more you know I guess
You may need to outline that the impedance of the CA1A is only 0.2 Ohms where 99.9% headphones have impedance at least 16 Ohms and the title (only the title) may be a bit of misleading.
I find that copper has a warmer sound, and the silver has to bright of a sound stage for me.
Stupid question; is there any change in wear and tear to the drivers or construction of the headphones that can be mitigated with a cable change?
Is the interaction between the cable and the CA-1a similar to the effect an impedance adapter has like on Project Red?
Appreciate the clarification on this. I've been curious about this for a while and wanted to know the technical details. I needed updated cables cause I've broken them but didn't want to just waste money on cables and was pretty sure it was snake oil to spend lots of extra on cables.
This video shows an example where the conditions were just so that objective data showing the difference could be gathered to present. Meanwhile many people invest their money and claim that they are experiencing improvements and changes between cables, but we must disregard and deny their experiences because it is subjective, and the objective data that can be produced doesn't support their shared experiences, so they must be wrong. I think it would be interesting to investigate cables and explore subjective experiences to see if the host would shift his perspective into believing that there are possibly differences that objective data cannot show. I would enjoy watching the host grapple with his own perceptions and the possibility of damaging his credibility by being unscientific and contemplating the practice of denying the validity of one's own perception no matter how convincing perceptions might become in the absence of objective data. One really good pair of headphones with a really good amplifier and a pile of premium expensive cables made of exotic materials. I would like to see that.
A detail in which the effects of impedance, capacitance and magnetic permeability are very noticeable is the decay of the sound (what it takes to dissipate the energy of a certain sound). Very noticeable in the deeper bass frequencies in some IEMs (In Ear Monitors).
But in IEM the effect that the tips make, and a good fit becomes much more noticeable at sound. In the 7hz Timeless for example, with the TRN T-Ear red tips, they become clearer, with better bass, and soften the treble peaks. To the point that I prefer them to the AE revision
In the vast majority of cases, with headphones, time domain information is directly proportional to frequency response, since headphones are usually minimum phase. But... There are some IEMs that aren't strictly minimum phase, although whether you'd see a meaningful change in CSD for those isn't obvious.
@@TheHEADPHONEShow Apart from the big difference caused by the controller technologies used in IEM: dynamic (DD), balanced armature (BA), planar-magnetic, pizoelectric, electrostatic... * And what these vary in the attack and decay times of the notes / of each sound. I feel warmer (with more energy and depth of bass), and a greater delay in the fading of sounds with pure copper cables (I like BQEYZ ones); And instead a colder / analytical sound with the silver ones (TRN T3, OpenHeart, ...).
(* To those who haven't done it, I recommend trying, one day, some good pure BA IEMs [like Moondrop S8, TRN BA15,... ], a piezoelectric like BQEYZ Spring2, Winter... And compare with a good pure DD, or hybrid)
There are cheap headphones that are good, but they come with lousy cables, which improve incredibly with other better cables (example TRN V90 + TRN T6 cable; The difference to the serial cable is like overnight).
Tracks to play for testing the efect:
"For the Glory" - All Good Things
"Havana" - Camila Cabello (Cover por J.Fla) ruclips.net/video/i1R4R84-EPA/видео.html
"Great Guitar Solos" - Gabriel Cyr Guitaris truclips.net/p/PLm91UJG6KclYgF2Z3jZDnLQo_9IwFnQi2
"Mysterious" - Official MV [Raven of the Inner Palace - Opening]. (At the middle of playback) ruclips.net/video/x7O_3Xfm9Mo/видео.html // ruclips.net/video/NMsbwd3SHpk/видео.html
Waggaki Band - 拍手喝采 (Hakushu Kassai). ruclips.net/video/5sJnveBvoLw/видео.html
Wagakki Band - 焔 (Homura) + 暁ノ糸 (Akatsuki no Ito) // 1st JAPAN Tour 2015 ruclips.net/video/ponTbDDMYjw/видео.html
(Shamisen and Koto [traditional Asian instruments] are interesting for their range of registers, and the variety of options for the player to sustain the vibration of the strings / notes over time)
IEMs I've tried with:
Those already mentioned 7hz Timeless ; & Timeless AE
7hz i99
KZ ZAS (exaggerates the prolongation in time of drums, and bass in general)
RAPTGO HOOK [I have tried with the variant xHBB]
BQEYZ Spring2 (good cable 4 core pure copper)
Veedix SilverString
TRN V90 , VX, BA15, ST5
Shouer S12Pro, D13, EJ07M
Moondrop Starfield, Kato
Audio sources:
Shanling M3X, M3Ultra
PC with ASUS ROG Strix X570 E Gaming Motherboard (High quality Dual OP Amplifiers 120dB output SNR; Adaptive impedance; SupremeFX Shielding Technology [independently layered circuit tracks]; Compatible with up to 32 Bits/192 kHz)
Thanks, I was wonder8ng what kind of impedance jack to buy, to add a bass to headphones, 2 75ohm should be audible.
I've tried using super cheap wires off consumer headphones with very thin conductors and they always lose bass and make the sound thin in any 32Ohm headphones. I wonder how high the resistance gets if your cable is too thin.
This is true, exactly my experience with my k371 using a cable with mic, was way thinner and changed the sound a lot losing quality, especially bass. Put the stock cable back again and the sound revived with power. And I didn't believe in this until then
What about the difference between balanced 4.4mm vs unbalanced vs 3.5mm iem cables? I know that matters to some DACS for volume, but does the balance matter to sound?
This vid is a total PSA. I do buy aftermarket cables for my headphones, mainly because I can customize the look, length, and termination. I always wondered if the uber expensive options would make a difference and now I'm glad I didn't splurge on them. This video was such a practical and thoughtful approach. Thank you!! 🍻
I Think people should look into getting different cables if they to make their headphones/IEMs look/feel different.If you have a crappy feeling cable that is rough or scratchy, if you want to colour match your headphones with the cables or if it's for some other convenience issues like needing a different plug or If your IEMs didn't come with a cable that has a mic for calls and that's something you use your IEMs for. My point being,if you have a shitty headphone/IEM that sounds horrible,even the most expensive cables in the world is not gonna change that and if it already sounds good but you just want to change the sound a bit, EQ is the answer not some fancy cable...
I think cable length can make a difference, together with dimension of copper wire.
When I bought a new shorter and thicker cable to my Sennheiser HD600, there was a slight difference also, just like the result from the test here.
Length does cause the longer the cable the greater the loss in signal, but at headphone distances it's not really that significant. It's like how HDMI 2.1 with 4k120 can't be too long or you drop frames or cut out, before you need to switch to an optical cable for longer runs.
Ergonomics trumps all of the sound benefits in my eyes. I wouldn't want to wrap half a kg cable just to get 2% sound improvement
It's always let me down with stock cables with all/most iems , upgrade with usd $40-50 cable , is a full upgraded in sound quality in a superb way, bass more presents-thumpier , mids-vocal more clearer , highs are more sparkling , it's not about how good the cable upgrade , it's all about how bad the stock cables are - totally rubbish including ( shuoer s12pro ). Thank You .
Cable upgrade for iem is a must for me !!
Is there a decent IEM cable with a mic?
Great Video. I would buy aftermarket cables if they are a better-quality cable over the stock cable, such as with HIFIMan cables. I will not however, spend thousands of dollars on them.
A larger point about cables is to switch to a balanced cable from a single ended.
For larger audio effects than just a cable by itself, tip rolling, audio recording quality, source, and (if using IEM's) insertion and EQing like you mentioned.
Ah this explains my long time question about how people generally agree that balance cables make a difference for really long connections and high power outputs, like on concert stages, and how some people claim that cables don't make a difference for over-ears but do make a difference for IEMs. In the end it's the imepdence relationship.
Some companies focus on the capacitance of their cables, which you didn't address here. Could you do a follow up focusing on that aspect?
Because the cable resistance makes up a larger portion of the total circuit resistance it makes sense that a low impedance headphone is more affected.
But, whether a high end $2000 multi-strand 24AWG cable or $5 single-strand 26AWG Wal-Mart cable, both will use conductors with total resistances in the milliohms. For a 4ft cable you would need a single strand of 34AWG to even reach the point where the resistance changes by 1 ohm. Even increasing a single 24AWG from 4ft to 20ft only changes it by 0.4 ohms. When running stranded conductors in a cable the resistance change is far less. Besides a less "microphonic" cable material, what you're mainly paying for are things that don't affect sound like thick insulation, pretty sheath, pretty connectors, hand soldering, etc. Look at how little the whopping 10 ohm adapter changed the sound for the Truthear Red, which is a 17.5 ohm load.
EQ will ALWAYS be better than buying a cable.
HA!! VINDICATION! My gold plated toslink cables were worth the investment after all.
Jokes aside, I had an IE80 years back and it was the pinnacle of sound so far I had heard, but when I got some fancyish hand-made cable for it I felt that it maybe sounded a bit more open, full, big, something. After two years of using it it broke and I had to get a new stock cable and I really didn't enjoy using it. Sounded somehow flat. That's my only anecdotal experience of cables mattering. Wish I still had it to try and see if I can spot something more clearly.
Been a/b testing my 10euro replacment ie600 cable with the proprietary cable. Its incredibly difficult to say the least. Maybe i need to choose more suitable music
Great video that mirrors my experience with cables and headphones. What about shielding/noise floor, especially with IEMs? Love to see the same analysis applied to shielding/noise floor. I've noticed that even though I use a DAP if I have my cell phone on my person/nearby, every so often, as the cell phone re-triangulates/switches/searches towers, I get static/raised noise floor on my high-end IEMs for several seconds. The audibility of the static/raised noise floor seems highly variable by IEM cable and connector type. I generally use 4.4mm Balanced IEM cables, which I thought would cancel this static/raised noise floor, but it doesn't (which could mean it's getting picked up by the DAP). Nevertheless, also love to have you take on any value to cable selection attenuating static/noise floor?
I wonder how much from that difference comes down to the cable being heavier and loading the earcups differently.
In this case, not at all. Because the cups are entirely stationary on these. But in some cases what you're describing could absolutely happen and be responsible for a reported difference.
Genuine question. How does a bigger vs smaller soundstage differ on the frequency graph?
I don't think it does. Maybe you'd see something related to phase, but in reality we don't have a standard way to measure soundstage and imaging other than listening and reviews.
I have bought cable upgrade for 15$ IEMs not for sound but just for comfort.
Those cheap cables tend to make tangeld mess just by looking at them spending another 10-20$ on a nice cable is so worth it just saves so much time and stress
Speaker cables can have capacitance that is frequency dependent. This can smear attacks in muasical passages with sfpz.
Regardless if it "improves" the sound or not... Wire gauges(mass or strands) of copper wire and its insulation(thickness) does change sound comparatively.
This is a fact and there is no arguing about it.
If you're really interested, go read about Resistance, Capacitance, and Impedance.
Whether if you can hear the difference or not, it depends on how different the cables you are testing(how much more copper one has over another/ length), how good your speakers(IEMs or headphones) reproduce frequencies, and how good your ears are(both physically and neurally).
All that being said, I think it's probably snake oil if you're paying more than 100 bucks on a single cable unless you really like the way it looks, which I think is up to you.
What about IEMs?
Do they sound better than the Moon Audio Silver Dragon cables?🙂
I think more people are into IEMs over cable greatness.
This really shouldn't be controversial
and yet some people still think the Earth is flat
It's controversial because of money: some people can afford to use or try these things, and some people can afford to speculatively post on RUclips.
Thanks for this video, this really helps. I am currently thinking of buying a balanced cable for my sundaras (ca 30 Ohm), as my amp/dac (Fiio K3) is slightly not strong enough to get them really really loud (most of the times its enough but just not always), but has a balanced output!! and was thinking if the loudness bonus of a balanced cable might fix this issue... now i would have to decide between a normal higher end cable around 50€ or a china cable for 28€ from aliexpress or just to buy a stronger amp for 100€ XD and adding just as a afterthought, the stock cable of the sundaras is really horrible so i would want to buy another cabel anyway but maybe then more a lower priced nice not balanced one, or go all the way for a nice balanced one directly... if anyone want to give advice I would be open for some ^^
8:30
Would it also be safe to say, in some capacity, that though some people may be using a 4.4 balanced or any kind of balanced connector, the 'ecosystem' probably isnt balanced overall because of the reasons you mentioned. The cable is, the cable might be to the DAC/AMP/DAP output but different to the headphone/IEM etc
I got some periapt cables for my Sundara's but not because I was looking for increased sound quality, it's just that the cable that came with them was terrible.
Whihc of his cables did you use?
Cables don't make a difference except A,B,C,D,E,F,G, I've compiled a list of over 6 exceptions to "cables don't make a difference", to the point where the list of exceptions is starting to make the case the cables make a big difference!
the cable thing is more obvious with speakers that run in much higher current
but for headphones, it is more on the physical side, because we are moving the cable so much, durability and comfort are mostly the issue
He asks a question early about folks wondering if cables are a good way to "level up" or get more out of what they already have and the answer; not really. If you go into buying cables expecting easily noticeable sonic differences then you're playing a losing game. However, if you like the way a cable loks, and more importantly if it's an ergoniomic improvement, and even more importantly if you're not spending moeny that you would otherwise need for something else, then go wild.
Great vid. Slight addition needed for what you said around 9:10 (just in case snake oil believers nitpick). Cables aren't purely resistive, they can have some inductance and capacitance too since the majority of them have the signal and ground cable running right next to each other. This means you *technically could* make a cable that changes the group delay measurably, by about some nano/microseconds, all while amplitude frequency response stays the same... Wouldn't audible obviously!
I noticed a difference on my timless 7hz planars when i fitted a solid silver and graphine cable. No noticable difference with my other iems.
Worth mentioning, cables by themselves cannot "add" anything, they are a passive object, energy cannot be created out of thin air... They can at best act as a filter and "remove" stuff, like we see on the FR graph that after compensating for volume, there are some frequencies missing on the high end. Now, would you want your cables to be filtering out your music wether you like it or not? I dunno, I'd rather use an EQ.
Also I don't think it was ever in question that -under certain scenarios- you will have measurable differences... try a regular cable and then the same exact cable but make it 10 miles long and you will notice a difference too...
A paper published in 2021 by Milind N. Kunchur showed that cables do improve sound quality in a measurement different from frequency response.
They improve the time-based domain of the signal… decreasing decay time…improving resolution.
This effect is mostly noticed on cheaper headphones with less resolution and poor decay time.
That’s why audiophiles with higher quality expensive equipment don’t notice any improvement.
Flawed papers can be ignored. Buffoon is what he is, lol.
As money is a finite resource, I prefer to spend the money on headphones, aftermarket earpads, amplifiers and vacuum tubes. Sure, I've dabbled in cable upgrades and even tried some silver cables, but it didn't do much for me beyond the aesthetics. It was early in my foray into head-fi and everyone had me convinced cables would make a difference. I'm not saying cables do not make a difference. I'm saying it's what "they" said, and "they" say a lot. I'm not going to talk smack about any particular brand but there is one guy on the interweb who makes really nice cables and explains all the "science" about OCC and strand counts and insolation while also dispelling bunk like using 24k gold as a conductor (micro-plating connector surfaces excluded). Aesthetically, very pleasing. I was "lucky" because I got a number of cables and adapters before he got *really* expensive. I have also tried some silver cables from a supplier who at the time had decent prices. Damn if I could tell a difference (the answer is a resounding "no").
Here's the thing - and I'm blotting my ignorance to the world but some have claimed to do this: You can use a copper wire hanger or copper from a cheap throw-away electrical cable and make a headphone cable that will sound the same as some of those brands that charge thousands of dollars - thousands! - just for copper cable and all the fancy-schmancy insulation. You probably know of many brands that charge these kinds of prices. These are the cables that weigh more than your headphone amp and cost orders of magnitude more than some very good headphone amplifiers. I can argue against myself all day long but is all copper really made equally? Does not the quality of the cable, setting aside the gauge of the copper to match the output impedance of the amplifier and the impedance of the headphones, make a difference? It *seems* like it should. But I honestly don't know and I'm not going to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to find out.
Then there's the issue of cables which you get with your headphones. Some cables are not aesthetically pleasing and some are just damn annoying. Case in point: HiFiMan cables. I'm not trashing HiFiMan as I really enjoy their headphones. HiFiMan cables are very good at eliminating microphonics (which is a thing) but the "wet noodle" feel of the cables is not for me. I purchased cheap replacement cables on Amazon and they work just fine. I cannot discern any audible difference between the stock cables and the aftermarket cables.
I said I would not talk smack about any particular cable manufacturer by name-dropping but I do want to make an honorable mention. I live in Sweden and here there is a company called Jenving who make Supra Cables. As it is a Swedish company you can find their products in both boutique shops and big-and-cheap stores. They don't make headphone cables but they do make every manner of data- and interconnect cable one could ask for, as well as speaker cables, power cables and power strips which is the mainstay of their business. To me, Supra Cables are the biggest bang-for-buck on the market, clearly under the point of diminishing returns. If you can get passed their signature baby-blue color, they're great. Ethernet, coaxial, fiber optic, HDMI, USB, RCA, XLR - I use them all. For my 11.2 home theater setup where all cables are behind the walls and ceilings, they do the job and aren't close to being the most expensive. Not by a long shot.
I am going to start making my own cables just for kicks and giggles. Not to save money, as the initial investment for soldering will cost a bit, but just to experiment. Just for something to do. I can't make anything else in this hobby but I can teach myself to solder and make cables. Well, I could in theory also make a tube amp but that's a steeper learning curve. Cables, that I can do.
I will continue to follow this very interesting topic but I don't think it will ever get resolved. There is one thing though which I think is good to keep in mind. Some products are made for people who can afford to buy things the rest of us can't. Doesn't matter if it's a ladies leather handbag or audio cables. People with means will purchase things you and I can't afford even if it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. And you know what? So would I.
Loved your last sentence! Sad (?) to say, so would I (probably).
@@enovasia I try not to be a hypocrite. Thanks for the friendly reply!
I agree, with one small caveat. Conductor gage. Some cables are made with such thin conductors to make them more pliable and easier to wear that I have to wonder what's being lost along with the metal inside. Granted we're not conducting DC amps but there must be a limit beyond which the sound is altered. Someone should do a test to find that number. The "Best Above" number.
So to summ it up. *_IF_* a cable is making a difference it is just acting like a fixed EQ.
Ergo you could just use an EQ instead (that probably exists anyways in some stage of your setup) Also you could tune it more to your liking or even later on if your perception is changing or if you are changing the music genre.
And getting it for more volume is unreliable and only on edge cases, also it would only help if a stronger power source would lower your clarity.
That's... not how any of this works.
It appears that the normal cable has more resistance and that the coiled aftermarket cable has some inductivity at higher frequencies.
Impedences is the main factor cable sound imo. The combination of the amplifier output impedence, cable, and headphone together should be considered.
A couple years ago I got an aftermarket cable to replace my focal vacuum cord and noticed the headphones were slightly louder at the same knob position on my amp. I figured it's probably just a difference in impedance. Anyhow, never buy cables for sound, only buy cables for ergonomics.
There is no snake oil when the cable is different type of metal. Cca, Ofc, Occ, silver coated copper, pure silver, pure red copper, etc....i measured them and I know because I have spectrograms and there is a lot of difference. Interestingly some upgrade materials yield similar properties as mp3 vs wave so it's a big deal unless you can't tell the difference in those types of music files when played back. 😉. Cable material affect the ceiling, the separation and the peak strengths. So, it's worth upgrading from ofc to OCC.
The best upgrade cables are those that are very flexible, tangle free, lightweight, no cable noises, and look good. It won’t sound any better.
Cables do make differences. The question, however, is that are those differences good? To me, when I find a headphone I like, I want to trust its designer for the cable selection and stick with the its original cable. But yeah, sometimes it’s still fun to just try some other cables out just for fun. (Or for my conference calls as the original one does not come with a mic 😂)
I bougght cable for look comfort and the feel. Sometimes cheap cable is microphonic or tangle up so easily.
Great job, respect, thx.
I don't think anyone who argues that cables don't make a difference would say that we can't make cables that deliberately change the sound signature. But that's not a desirable thing. At least for the most part. Vinyl and tubes distort the sound in a particular way that people like, so if someone likes to use a cable that distorts the sound in a way that they prefer that's totally cool. Just be honest in the marketing around that cable about how it influences the sound. It's just that all these snake oil companies market their cables to objectively sound better, i.e. more neutral / accurate to the source.
I'd rather cable companies sell their products based on looks and materials. People buy fancy cables for their mechanical keyboards and no one would argue that those perform better. Buying a slightly expensive third party cable that just looks cool and tangles less is something many audiophiles would probably be into.
I’ve heard more than a few reviewers mentioning relationship be SQ and impedance but never seen anyone test the theory. Isn’t it quite easy to have a bunch of cables, measure their impedance, then compare their FR? Then prove that cables with same impedance sound exactly the same or not? If proven then we can push for cable makers to publish their cable impedance. Just my two cents as a layman, not sound engineer.