With all this talk about magic, limitations, and cost, I found myself thinking of the Syfy show, "The Magicians". They're style doesn't explain everything, but maintains an amount of predictability. And each season becomes more drastic, as the limitations and costs compound. It seems like whenever they find one magical solution, the repercussions from that solution only serve to create a larger problem, which seems to be a main theme of the show
Here's another good hard magic system, look up the web comic Kubera, each spell is borrowing a small portion of a God's powers and there are even limitations based on when you are born as to what magic you can use. Not only is there magic borrowed from Gods but there are abilities each being can possess called 'transendentals' which are a more soft magic type that has much more variety as well as an entirely different system of use and availability. Honestly it is a world I want to see a lot more of.
And I just remembered one of my favorite anime, "Charlotte". Not so much magic as super powers, but the main character even states that a lot of the powers seem half-assed. Like, the main character can possess other people's bodies, but only for five seconds, and the main female character can make herself invisible, but only to one person
It's a very real paradox. Don't let anyone tell you mothers are underrepresented in children's books for any other reason than that a good and present mother wouldn't let their young child have the kind of harrowing adventures that many children's and YA stories involve. It would just seem weird or unbelievable, because we naturally default to mothers selflessly protecting their children from harm or forbidding them to endanger themselves.
@@Vinemaple True, though some stories have managed to pull off having the mother still be alive. My Hero Academia is a good example: Deku's mother is very much alive, but Deku is still able to be a hero.
So many characters I've had that I was like...man if I give them siblings and or parents I've got to at least gloss over them and give them characteristics....nah they've been independent since 13. Been there
Hard magic systems are perfect for world building. In Avatar the cultures and philosophies of the groups that use each element are informed by that element. The Air Nomads have a strong sense of pacifism, the Water Tribes go with the flow, the Earth Kingdom has sturdy values and the Fire Nation has an expansionist policy like how fire can spread.
The reason silver is used for werewolves (and many other things) is because it is regarded as an incredibly pure substance thus it stalls or halts regenerative abilities.
"transforms into a werewolf, making them vulnerable to silver bullets." I know, right? If only they'd just stayed human, those silver bullets would've bounced right off.
yup i love that idea it works soo well to make a character feel grounded i noted this in the character Rhelrahne she physically can't touch metals they melt her skin thats why she's in such light civilian looking clothing (Although it helps her blend in) her sword reflects this idea it isn't a metal its a special crystal she found while in a school trip to a mine specializing in mining the magic crystal elucidate it chose her it floated towards her and so she kept it and fashioned it into her sword i make it that in my universe you need size and intelligence to use magic thats why the most of the powerful magic users in that universe are demons angels and solarisians (Venus native aliens) which are all genius civilizations which have the power of entire planets and realms on their side with great affordable education and a abundance of food and materials allowing those three groups to do whatever they want especially angels who just play around with their demon friends and troll humanity there is literally only three exceptions to this line of thought regarding size Ange Rhelrahne and Marika those three are short as hell and Ange is a wolf pup yes even wolves can have magic although these three are absolute genius's Marika and Rhelrahne developed a atomic bomb variant by the time they were in highschool and Ange developed a experimental flight system called Etherium which makes you able to fly faster then a demon (mach 5)
Silver's actually a terrible metal to make a bullet out of: it's too light and too soft. So... yeah; you wouldn't be as vulnerable to a silver bullet if you remained in human form because it might deform and not even hit you.
Limitation of Vampires: Stake through the heart. Limitation of virtually everything else: Stake through the heart. Seriously apart from Zombies or other mindless undead...there's very little a very large wooden stake (size depending on the creature) can't kill. Even Werewolves can be killed by a Silver Stake.
@@luketfer Yeah, at least Superman's weakness isn't something that everyone else is weak to as well. That's, like, the one good thing about Superman. lol
@@erikruder3360 Depends on the fiction. In Dresden Files there are like... four(?) different types of werewolves in the second book. Only one has a weakness to silver.
the easier way to say that would probably be "cause and effect" so for your examples 1, cause and effect and predictability are pretty interchangeable in this regard 2, there is no need for limitations as long as you can show the cause for bypassing them. (e.g. the force doesn't work on droid, but if you push the air around them you can also push them) 3, similar to #2 prevent the cause prevents the effect, but the more defined it is the more you can work around it or find bypasses (e.g. droids are immune to the force, the air around them isn't) 4, this ones a little trickier other than "well what ever starts the cause," it also depends on the system, something like FMA's equivalent exchange has a clear cost where TLAB's costs are more just the time and energy put into bending (and the time and energy put into learning to bend) 5, is for just for bonus points.
@@NoESanity A lot of people prefer getting the summary than watching the video. Predictability 4:24 Limitations 5:30 Weaknesses 5:51 Cost 7:44 Style 11:36
@@mystic0 no I get that you're just listing off his points. I'm just saying that defining cause and effect for your magic system is the easiest and most concise way to design a hard magic system.
I just noticed that eragon's magic system is basically just computer coding, but for reality. Like, phrasing something wrong causes a 'bug'(be a shield instead of be shielded) , and sometimes a crash(death). It also requires a in depth knowledge of a specific language and syntax is imperative. So basically they're the most accurate hacking scenes (that are still fun).
Ehh, it's actually a rejection of the laws of thermodynamics. I'm thermodynamics all transformations are unequal exchanges in that you always get less than what you put in due to inefficiencies.
@@elcidbob True dat, although credit where it's due to OP - the first law says you can only lose or break even in transfer of useful energy. The second law says that you can only lose :P
I love when people appreciate the complexity FMAB has. It’s one of the greatest stories ever written and told, unlimited rewatches, lovable and alienating characters, truly a masterpiece.
"If you enjoyed Avatar the Last Airbender, there's a good chance you might enjoy FMA:B." *Immediately shows spoilers from the last part of the entire series.*
@@Peanutjoepap24 if you havent yet, please do watch it. One of the best anime's I've seen. I remember waiting every week for it to come out like 10 years ago.
I'll never understand when people lump Harry Potter into hard magic. It seems like each book introduces some wild new ability that was mysteriously never mentioned before. Characters are constantly using new spells that happen to solve their current situation. Literally anything could be added to the story at any time
It's a scale, or a spectrum if you will. Harry Potter has a magic system that is harder than LoTR, for instance, but it's softer than Avatar the Legend of Aang/Korra. I would say it might be hard enough to some people say it's "hard" in a binary way, because of some defined rules, but it has many soft parts to it.
but in 2:17 he shows harry potter as a more soft than hard magic system, he only uses a lot of harry potter in the video to exemplify magic systems in general, and some elements of this system are harder than LotR or GoT
I think Harry Potter magic doesn't actually fall into the Hard/Soft binary. Harry Potter magic is strongly tied to the intentions and emotions of the characters. Ultimately, Voldemort's downfall is brought about because he doesn't understand how the caster's intentions affect the behavior of magic. The hard/soft binary is about how to structure a satisfying story concerned with how magic solves problems. Harry Potter, as a story, doesn't care about how magic solves problems. Harry Potter cares about how magic reflects the interior lives of the characters. Harry Potter magic has very hard rules, and these rules are consequential to the plot, but they aren't explained in detail to the reader because the minutia of the rules isn't the point.
I think the books get away from this because of the POV being a boy who is thrown into a magical world he has no clue about, and is growing up in it with his experiences along with the plot. Rowling quite cleverly used this fact to introduce new levels to the magic system in each book.
One thing that personally bothered me much about stories or most fantasy games is: that although characters may be able to learn magic from a variety of schools, most worlds aren't embedded within the rules of their magic systems. No city, no civilization, no kingdom utilizes magic in its infrastructure, architecture, production, measure of wealth, philosophy - and if this is the rare case, it appears arbitrarily. Like there are some chests locked by 'magic', but the concept itself appears to not be thought to an end. It would be authentic to ask the question, how far humans would go with experimenting with magic and building their whole civilization upon it, because that is what people would have been likely done. Magic would be embedded in political systems, ideologies, philosophy and not only in religion. It would fuel people's whole lifestyle, it would produce a strange breed of mechanical and medieval styles and it would design the way social hierarchy works. That's what I really enjoyed about Avatar the last Airbender. They put effort into the art of bending, making it a *vital* element of daily life. Cities, technologies, lifestyles, games, wealth - most of it is build upon bending techniques. Bending an element produces its own sort of culture and ideology, which is depicted for each of the civs: The air benders are nomads, the firebenders have steampower and appear to be imperialists, the earth benders have complex systems and massive structures, they care about stability the most. I wish more writers and game designers would do these "hard magic" concepts. It would be far more interesting to explore their worlds. But this is just my opinion.
Look up the Eberron setting, I think you'd really like it. "True" mages are rare, most are actually "artificers," people who can infuse objects with magic, temporarily or permanently.
Anna Damm true. And also the Name of the Wind. Magic might not be as used in civilisation there as in other settings, but that is because its mostly unknown to most people and rly rly hard to learn. But in the town where they teach it they use it for many practical things.
@@EllipticalReasoning it actually IS in a wierd in between! D&D spells have a dissonance between the player's knowledge and the character's knowledge. Sure, we know that Fireball does 8d6 fire damage, but i don't think the character in game knows that it does that, or else that would be breaking the 4th wall. Not to mention, magic is vauge and only really explained as manipulating The Weave. What's the Weave? Who the fuck knows! In fact, so many characters have different ways of casting spells that are barely explaines at all, probabaly so the group can have the freedom to make thier own reasons (which i appreciate.) TL:DR, it only seems hard becuase we are looking at it as a player, not from inside the world itself.
@@darienb1127 You raise an interesting point, but I think it fails to be ultimately convincing. You see, even in-game characters can identify the spells another character is casting, and with relatively few data points find their class and (approximate) level. Every time an experienced fighter sees a mage conjure a weapon instantly to their hand (instant summons), he will immediately know that mage can also transport 8 creatures hundreds of miles (teleport). Obviously, in-world characters don't know about hit points, advantage, and d20 roles, but many facets of the spells are deterministic even in-world (for example, durations and ranges are usually exact values).
@@EllipticalReasoning that's fair. But one thing that bothers me is that we still don't have the explanation of how to magic works. Spells typicaly use Verbal and Somatic components, but we are never told what the exact components are. What are the words that need to be uttered, what hands movements, etc. Second, how do spell slots work? How come a 6th level Wizard can only cast 4 1st level spells per day? Do they get tired out? Do they run out of materials? The exact ways of casting the spell is never explained. As opposed to certain other shows and movies where they show that doing certian actions or certian movement will perform the certain desired spell.
@@darienb1127 That's true, especially in fifth edition. If it interests you, you can look through the rulebooks for previous versions, which give a more complete description. In the move to fifth, Wizards of the Coast appears to have moved toward a very generalized version of a game famous for its oceans of specific rules; classes are more similar, feats and skills are much less customizeable, the spellcasting rules are significantly simpler, and more. In 3.5, each spell which required material components specified what exact components they were (hence "the smell of bat guano in the morning", referencing a component of fireball). 3.5 also explained spell limits to some degree; wizards would literally cast all of their spells for the day in one hour in the morning, leaving each one \*almost\* complete. The casting time actually specifies only the last step in a potentially complex casting ritual; thus, higher level wizards can cast more because they can more quickly and confidently complete the complex castings in the morning.
I'm surprised you didn't mention one of FMA's first examples of limitation _and_ predictablility: Colonel Mustang can't perform Flame Alchemy when his gloves are wet. This was a well done video. I always love listening about hard magic systems.
well he can, he just can't use his char cloth (a real thing btw) while it's wet. there was a scene in one of the FMA's (idrwo) where he just carves it into his hand and uses a lighter.
He should talk about the difference I the Alchemy in both anime adaptations of FMA while 2003 is more soft while Brotherhood is far on the hard end of the scale.
@@XD1999cable I prefer the story and characters of the 2003 anime but if you want something less old that looks prettier, is more action packed, and has an ending that's.. let's say is less divisive then Brotherhood might be for you. The original is 51 episodes and has 2 fillers, 4 and 10 that you can skip, while Brotherhood is 64 so the original might be easier to get into. The original is slower paced with more focus on character drama with a smaller cast and is mostly focused on the 2 protagonists as apposed to Brotherhood which changes perspective to different characters more often. The earlier plot points are covered with a lot more care in the 2003 version. The shows differ early on as the 2003 version starts sowing the seeds for it's own original plot points later. By episode 25 the shows are very different. I think 2003 has the superior soundtrack as Brotherhood tends to repeat songs a lot more. Let's say Brotherhood is more, happy then the original with a happier ending. The villains have different arcs and some differ in name and design between the versions while 3 of them in the 2003 version are different characters all together. Brotherhood is technically the Canon story so if care about that there's that. I would recommend watching them both but if you do do that then I'd say watch the 2003 version first since it's shorter and the earlier plot lines are superior. The other way is to watch Brotherhood for the Canon story and then watch 2003 in your free time for a fresh perspective. If you like manga then you could read the manga which is basically Brotherhood but sorta better in my opinion and with some cool but minor plotpoints that Brotherhood cut out.
"In Avatar: The Last Airbender, and forgive me for using it as the benchmark for all things good and holy and right, BUT IT IS" PREACH. IT. DAMN. RIGHT.
As much as I like Avatar: The Last Airbender, I think that Brandon Sanderson's Laws of Magic do a better job of acting as a benchmark for magic as a whole. Mistborn, for instance, has rules that are so well structured in it that you know EXACTLY what everyone is capable of doing, and there's nothing vague about how powerful someone is.
@Majencia I really liked LoK. It wasn't as good as Avatar, but that's almost too lofty a task to accomplish. But I liked the story it told, the characters were well written (not 'Zuko' well written, mind you), and the fight scenes were quality as always.
@@androkguz Atium, and shards in this scenario, are from Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere series. Atium, specifically, is referencing a metal from the Mistborn series.
**Silver** bullets. Silver is considered a holy metal and thus would easily be able to penetrate an unholy Werewolf. Same reason why Vampires don’t have a reflection, not because they don’t have spirits but because mirrors are glass with a coating of silver over them.
@@nekrouni8497 He is joking that he is already not immune to silver bullets. If you or I get shot with a silver bullet we die regardless of being a werewolf or human.
Don't forget that a lot of what you said about "Hard Magic" also applies to writing futuristic technology in sci-fi-- consistency, limitations and costs are important in making the technology both realistic and believable enough that our belief can maintain suspended. If problems can be solved by technology, there needs to be a limit in some way that the technology can solve or fix issues, or a cost to the fixing. "A robot fixed it" can be just as frustrating to a reader as "a wizard did it".
It's not every day that you see one (two) of your favourite Smash 4 content creators in the comment section of a video about completely unrelated arguments. Just wanted to say hi, love your videos :D
It's not every day that we get our fans complimenting us on a different video! :] We don't comment all the time on videos but we do watch a fair amount of content, so you never know where we'll pop up. We appreciate the compliment! - Paradigm
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C Clarke so writing advanced tech could use the same tips as writing Magic, yes
Agreed! The natural restrictions on technology are easy to implement, but few sci-fi writers use them, even when so much of the plot hinges on the capabilities of said technology. (Where did you get the materials? How common are the materials? Who built it? How long do they take to build? Do they require special knowledge or equipment to build? How easily replaced is it?) Both "Star" series are guilty of this, churning out massive ships effortlessly in trivial time frames, making the loss of even the largest ships inconsequential.
“... In Avatar the Last Airbender-and forgive me for using it as the benchmark for all things good and holy in writing BUT IT IS. ...” A-freaking-men, brother.
imo the most underrated hard magic system is "Nen" in HunterxHunter there are as many different uses for nen as there are users, while still keeping the system fairly balanced. (from wikipedia:) "A Nen user can enter into a Contract (誓約, Seiyaku) where, by pledging to follow certain Limitations (制約, Seiyaku), their abilities are strengthened in relation to how strict they are." so the strongest abilities come from pledging your own life (or even more) in order to get this power. but the sheer amount of different powers isn't making balancing those powers worse. instead of just let them bash their heads together, just to let the fighter with the higher level of power win, it's always about fighting with tactics, using the up-/downsides of the abilities and how you use them to counteract the up-/downsides of the enemies' abilities.
i enjoy putting environment effecting magic say if its too hot fire based magic turns unreliable but incredibly dangerous and if it's too cold same effect except with ice magic instead say if the forest guardian wolf Ange is in its natural habitat which is a forest its abilities turn it into the most dangerous creature in the world nothing can kill it in that terrain and nobody can withstand its abilities for long couple this with rain improving her abilities even further monsoon rains and being in a forest effectively turns her into Gaea the personification of nature and the god of nature she's basically unstoppable when those conditions are met. Although she is easily able to use her abilities to solve a diverse range of problems she can reorganize entire towns by lifting the houses with gravity manipulation and rapidly cause nature to grow just by presence alone although despite this she's still vulnerable she's easy to anger and is often really trusting of people and easily gets scared of people a highly capable wolf pup with many disadvantages she has tons of energy but her abilities are actually really physically weak she can throw a building at you sure but even then it still doesn't hurt as much as it realistically should in reality that building would kill you but it doesn't it strangely is like someone stabbing you instead of y'know throwing a damn building in a persons face and her abilities require intense concentration and she needs to be close to the enemy (within 50ft - 115ft) or else her abilities cancel out and leave her enemy with the advantage since she's just a puppy she also can't do it for long her longest was against a single person for almost ten minutes..
I think they elaborated that fire alchemy has nothing to do with fire, not directly at least. Mustang manipulates the concentration of oxygen in the air with extreme precision and the gloves just create the initial spark, but he can use a lighter (like in the most iconic and cathartic scene imo XD) or any other source. Rainy days just make his gloves useless
@@abraxushellsing for what I heard of the author stated or someone theorized that he can actually divide the water into oxigen and hidrogen but doing it would cause a huge and uncontrollable explosion
You expressed this concept beautifully (and hilariously)! You know when you KNOW something, but you don't realize you know it's a thing? That's what this video is for me. A WIZARD DID IT!
> You know when you know something but you don't realize you know it? It's called following a logical transition. One can have a general understanding that A->C without knowing the details of A->B->C, or even that B exists
Logically, if someone is going to use magic in a videogame, it is going to be hard magic, bc videogames usually require to have Mana costs, cold time, level of use, etc. But yeah, hard magic best magic.
I dunno. Wheel of Time is one of my favorites and magic could theoretically do about anything there. It had hard qualities in that it cost certain amounts of power and stamina to do certain things, and people have forgotten how to do most of the cool things so they can't be done until someone learns how, but that's about it.
I find that if the magic system plays a large part in the series Hard Magic is the type it tends to go with. Soft Magic systems are usually found in series where there is more focus on other things, like how in ASOIF the main focus is on the war for the Iron Throne and the White Walker invasion.
I wouldn't say that one is better than the other. Both have their quirks and downfalls. It's all about your preference and what you are trying to achieve.
Im a starter writer, working on a biiiig project with my siblings and this REALLY helped. The magic system of our story is quite hard actually. The limitation of it is that it uses your Mana, your life force. If you use a bit, you wont feel too different. If you use some more you might get tired. If you use even more your body will suffer physical damage. Maybe cough some blood. Amd if you use even more you might either die or lose the ability to use magic.
@@cupcakejack7375 Yup. Well, it would be difficult to write a story in which expending all your power would actually kill you. Good luck to you and your siblings.
you might want to read some wuxia/cultivation manhua/manhwa where its user uses Qi (Mana in disguise) but there's also "technique" that practice of utilizing life force, of course it is a last resort and it has stronger effect by multiple times compared to Qi.
So, essentially in a universe where magic exists "Hard magic" would be akin to science, because it has reliability and, just like science, can have theories and hypothesis on how it's used or how to use it, whereas "soft magic" is magic.
You could make a setting where you use technology as a medium but never clearly state the rules and natural laws of that universe, thus making it based on science but in the style of soft magic. To me it seems calling it science or magic is redundant because science based mediums follow the exact same rules, they sometimes just fall in line more with our own world (ex. Using the law of equal energy and showing that a big ass laser needs a big ass power source). The only difference I see between a science based medium and a magic based medium is that science uses more industrial astethics while magic tends to use a more colour full approach.
Your response brought to mind the magic system of the anime Magi. In it, the energy of the world , the Rukh, is essentially souls of the deceased. The titular Magi are able to manipulate the energy in it's purest form, but later it's learn that the Rukh are placed into 8 categories. Magicians are those who can give commands to this energy in order to perform magic. To create fire magic, the magician would command fire Rukh it to heat up. Those who are innately adept at controlling 1 type can also learn another more easily, which the greatest wizards can utilize all 8. Something like creating a compact steam explosion combines water, wind, and fire and requires 180 commands. And then after a timeskip, the main character, on top of being able to manipulate gravity to warp space around him, performs one of the greatest feats of completely deconstructing and reconstructing a person's body so it's no longer part of a bloodline, requiring over 1 million commands to execute.
"hard" magic & scifi is usually based on rules and resources. "soft" magic and scifi is usually based on emotions and needs. For example in Star Wars, not is the "force" only as strong as it needs to be, nonmagical things like droids, spaceships, and weapons are only as strong as they need to be, based on the emotional flow of the plot.
Hard Magic that evolved into Soft Magic: Naruto's hand-signs, chakra, and limited schools of Ninjitsu solving interesting problems --becoming--> god-like aliens, crazy eyes, and unlimited chakra reserves that can do anything the plot requires.
There are actually rules and very serious limitations to "magic" in Tolkien's legendarium. In fact, it's not even referred to as magic but either as a natural ability of a creature or because of their skill and training. Most of the time, it's got something to do with the concept of "sub creation." The Istari are not wizards in the D&D sense; the appellation is only there (and whenever the word is used for any member of the Heren Istarion, it is capitalized) because people in Middle Earth didn't really know what to call these powerful robed old men. That's why in the books you don't really see Gandalf or Saruman flinging fireballs. The closest we ever see or hear of this was Gandalf igniting some pine cones or his story of fighting the Nazgul solo. Even then. the debates were whether these were expressions of his "sphere of influence" as an Istari, or because he was bearer of Narya, the Ring of Fire. Unfortunately, most of the explanations for powers in Middle Earth can only be found in the later Making of Middle Earth books, which includes extensive essays from the Professor and early drafts of his works. If you don't want to slog through those, there are several discussions on Tolkien's legendarium and its "magic" system in Quora.
@elijah mikle The book is very clear that it's mostly force of will that matters. It's only later readers, more accustomed to modern fantasy, who might be confused. If you're willing to let go of preconceived ideas of how magic works, and read Tolkien for himself, he's not hard to follow. Of course, you can do further research into Tolkien's thoughts if you wish, but it is by no means necessary to follow the story.
Having just discovered this video over two years after its publication, I know this likely won’t get seen by many people, but I have to give one of my favorite examples of a hard magic system - Nen, in Hunter x Hunter. Limitations, rules and costs are a huge part of how Nen functions, and it has a decent level of predictability. For example, seeing someone’s power being used, you have a good chance of guessing what category of Nen user they fall under, which can then give you insight into what they can or cannot do. Additionally, even though the story is constantly surprising with how powers are used, I never felt as if “A wizard did it”. Everything makes complete sense in hindsight, and you think, “gosh, why didn’t I think of that”. There’s even a way of assigning numerical values to aura usage, reserves and maximum output (if you’re Knuckle). It has an essentially limitless range of possibilities, but those possibilities are bounded by restrictions (eg. conjuring unconditionally unbreakable chains is impossible). It’s such a cool concept because it doesn’t just adhere to the basic tenets of a good hard magic system, it incorporates those rules into the system and story itself - restrictions and rules increase the strength of abilities, there are real consequences of breaking said rules, the extreme cost of an extreme power is tangible, etc. Sorry I’ve rambled on so long, it’s just one of my all times favorite magic systems!
I know this comment is a year old but another thing I love about nen is how the rules are worked into combat in universe. For example how kurapika played with his opponent’s knowledge on the nen categories. To trick people into think his conjured chains are real, he has them conjured 24/7 which makes them think he’s perhaps a manipulator. Then it gives him the upper hand in combat when he can make his chains appear and reappear. It’s just such a creative way of working with a power system.
Good take. I think Nen is particularly impressive for how it explains every trope and phenomenon you'd expect out of powered individuals. For example, powered individuals can cut through terrain like butter, but they can survive extreme impacts without getting destroyed. Why? Because Nen makes you strong enough to break stone walls, but Nen users shield themselves with a layer of aura during a fight to keep themselves safe. Powered individuals can sense each other. Why? Because Nen users have opened their micropiles, so they can see each other using aura unless they're concealing it. Some people are able to create things with their minds, while some people are just strong and durable. Why? Because of the Nen power categories. People can have all sorts of powers, but you rarely run into two people with even remotely similar powers. Why? Because you have to study something intimately for weeks on end in order to develop it into a power - so you rarely do it with anything you're not passionate about, and most people's powers are extensions of themselves. Not every magic system tries to explain every type of magic you could imagine. But Nen is one of the few systems that tries to do so and succeeds. That's what makes it so impressive to me. (Another key example of successfully explaining everything is the powers in Worm.)
HxH was one of my favorite magic systems for awhile. My biggest problem with it was how the big baddies could just ignore the whole condition thing because they had more 'spirit' than they knew what to do with. That and the whole specialist thing which is basically the 'soft magic' category. Still love the magic system though. Leagues above all the copy and paste 'friendship power' and 'force of will' that's out there.
I think that's exactly what I think is interesting about Nen. Clearly Togashi has thought about it enough to call it a hard system, overall. But, the actual nature of the system is itself SUPER SUPER soft. Essentially, even though no two people have the same nen abilities, they all exist in the same universe under the same moves. There are basic moves that can be copied and learned, there are ways that everyone can use nen to augment their extant skills, but at the high level.. you never get the sense that anyone else in the series is going to learn "Bungee Gum" or Killua's lightning - theoretically possible, but exceedingly unlikely. Nonetheless, everyone's unique and totally *literally* made up personal magic is still governed by some common rules. Types are consistent (yes, specialist is a wildcard, but Togashi never gives you the impression that the type of the nen is proportionate to its strength or utility.) More importantly, Hunter X Hunter trades on the core ideas of costs, limitations, and weaknesses. They're what make the entire story. You have to train and you have to learn, but no matter how good, knowledgeable, talented, experienced you are, there is no ability without a fundamental risk and flaw - by design. In fact, it is only by increasing the potential flaw that you can increase the potential strength. It gives you these really interesting dynamics, where even the super powerful OP characters find themselves defeated by simple or unexpected means in shockingly believable ways. Hunter X Hunter is not immune to the asspull BS deus ex machina by any means, but I think it does a pretty good job of making those moments feel believable and even earned because the story never lets you forget that every OP power has a limitation but every limitation can be overcome with cleverness, planning, and a lot of luck.
Also,Meruem power's is justified through chimera ant arc,you see the chimeras struggling to create the perfect king,instead of fmab,that they just destroy a whole country to get the power without any struggling( and with no explanation how they had a philosopher's stone before destroying the country)
@@philm.8622 The thing about the big bad guys is that they all had a reason for being as strong as they were without restrictions. Uvogin was extremely powerful due to his mastery of enhancer skills yet he was utterly destroyed by Kurapika, a novice due to the limitations of his powers. Additionally, Meruem is not a stretch due to the fact that phagogenesis was used to continuously increase the power of the next generation (which he was the king of). All other other bad guys are amazing due to their unique and strong abilities that they themselves created in addition to training. The villains are really not a stretch at all.
Every time I read a Brandon Sanderson book I’m amazed of how intricate and math/science based they can be. He manages to write magic systems that are based in his world building reality. 10/10
I love how the more you and the characters get familiar with the magic system the more it feels like a fantasy science rather than magic. It's such a cool approach that fits perfectly into his world building. The Navani sections in The Rhythm of War were some of my favorites for the same reason.
As much as I love everything Brandon Sanderson writes, I think Mistborn has perhaps the greatest magic system in fiction. The combination of limitations, weaknesses, and costs are really incredible. Hearing Brandon's lectures about it is also fantastic, he really knows how to explain writing like nobody else.
My favorite hard magic system I've seen would have to be from the anime Hunter X Hunter it's so well defined and incorporates all of these principles to make a very well defined impressive hard magic system
nen isn't actually a hard system. the limitations put on nen abilities to make them more or less powerful are not limitations on the "magic system" but put in place by the user themselves. in a hard system you'd have cause an effect, mustang's fire alchemy is him controlling the air around him to guide his fire, or a jedi's ability to use force push is them commanding the midichlorians in the air, target, and in the general area to move. in hxh, there is no cause an effect or explanation related to nen abilities. gon punches really hard until he somehow punches so hard he ages 20 years. no rhyme or reason. in HxH some random guy with nen means nothing. there is no idea of what nen can and cannot be used for except for specific examples we've seen. on the other hand in FMA, you can reliably guess that an alchemist can use alchemy and what that entails. in starwars we know why and how the force works, even if we don't know all the force abilities. nen on the other hand, we don't know why or who or how nen works.
@@chaoticneutral7573 FMA alchemy isn't magic either. the term "magic system" doesn't strictly refer to magic in the sense of prestidigitation, star treks technology is a form of hard magic, because we know most of the ins and out of how it works and can deduce if you were to say, use a transporter on random object what would happen. on the other hand star wars technology is a soft magic system, because we don't know why it does and doesn't work, for example their medical droids are capable of bringing people back from the brink of death, having become quadruple amputees and losing half of their internal organs, but some woman giving birth still has a chance to die, like wtf.
@@NoESanity Well its kinda magic since transmutation circles, arrays and runes are used in Alchemy. Even tho transmutation can be explained scientifically, nature of Alchemy, the Gates and the Truth is still arcane and mystical.
@@chaoticneutral7573 witchcraft to the ignorant is science to the learned. don't forget FMA also had fully realized prosthetic, but as seen in the movie have no concept of rocket science. also the gate isn't "arcane" it's spiritual, it's a part of the soul, the gate keeper is analogs to god (in fact truth is straight up refereed to as god in multiple episodes and chapters), and each person has their own personal gates. just because their science is different from ours, don't make it automatically magic. if on another world water froze at 50f for them, and boiled at 300f, there would be huge differences in scientific principles, but to them it would just be standard science because it is the law of nature for that world.
I like that Avatar's system is like a soft system within a hard system, where it is clearly defined what the elements are and how to use them, but WHAT exactly each character does with them is essentially only limited by knowing the basics of form/movement and having imagination. It means we have a rough idea of how much power someone can access at any time, but we don't always know how they will use it, and the characters consistently come up with creative ways of shaping and using the elements. Aang can open locks with airbending, Katara can neutralize Azula by luring her to the right spot over a grate of water and submerging/freezing both of them in it, as well as shoot razer thin mirror slices of ice at the Northern tribe master, toph can dig tunnels and create overhangs, ledges, even tents. The limitation is in what they control, but its not limited to just shooting a direct fireball or heaving a rock at someone, they are free to shape the element as they wish once they learn how to manipulate and move it with the martial arts moves. Its a brilliant system that is pretty clearly defined but leaves very open-ended possibilities, especially with the niche variations of styles.
I wouldn’t really say they’ve explained WHAT the elements are. Normal physics and science still seems to be a thing with Sokka using it. Or a variant of it. So… are there chemical element or is the universe made of the four elements? The only thing I can see is that the four elements are culturally and spiritually important to the world's population, and the turtles had the powers. But what exactly that power is beyond that, we don’t know.
Too bad they did not use their powers to full potential. Akin to Aang creating vortexes and inflicting severe brain damage (or completely cancelling fire powers be vacuum). Or earth powers being used to pull bones out of somebody’s body (The Boys style), since they contain minerals. The closest we got was blood bending and it was…. Eeeeh… awkward puppet technique instead of “bloodbath goes brr”. Electricity powers being used to scan everybody’s hippocampus to read their thought or simply stop flow of electrons in their brain/heart, insta killing them globally (Death Note style). So on so on. Avatar was such a disappointing story. Barely scraping the surface of a glorious power building of what it could have been. I still firmly believe that Naruto did the job of power system much better. Powers are pretty self explanatory. But their magnitude is balanced by scarcity: Only by making certain deals with “gods” (tailed monsters) or certain genes (+self-sacrifice) you can do some reality-bending sign stuff.
@@kingol4801 Aside from “it’s a kid’s show,” “that is completely out of tone for the series,” and “not every world has to be a gritty grimdark place where everyone uses their powers as ruthlessly and efficiently as possible,” I don’t think lightningbending has anywhere near the degree of control or sensitivity you’d need to make those use cases work. Vacuum is the only one I’d give that’s both tonally fine and the kind of power Aang would use, and I’ve heard theories that Monk Gyatso died creating one around himself and the comet-enhanced Fire Nation soldiers at his death site. …that being said, if you _do_ like that kind of story where people win by using their powers in ruthlessly efficient ways, might I recommend _Worm_ by Wildbow?
Basicaly how i doo it in my D&D campaign. Wizards lern how to "Hack" the matrix. Warlocks doo it instintly. Druids have it in their gutts. Clerics/Paladins pray for someone to doo it for them. And bards press randome buttons untill something cool hapens.
@@diekriegerohnekopf5162 same as warloks. I play 3.5, so they don't exist in my ruleboocks. I don't know much about them, so i'd be open to sugestions.
Then there's the weird Hard Magic systems, like My Hero Academia and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, where the abilities generally have no universal rules, but instead each individual has their own hard set rules. Character A can manipulate time, but only in these specific ways. Character B can alter gravity, but only in these specific ways. The two are playing on totally different rule sets, but each rule set is, well, still a rule set. It's a strange blend of Hard and Soft magic. The world at large is highly unpredictable, but the characters that the story follows are.
But even in Jojo's there's a bit more hard magic to it, like the rule that a more powerful stand has shorter range or if a stand is both strong AND long range then the user has no control over the stand
I feel like Jojo is a good example here, but has the problem that the author often forgets some things (He admited it) But yes the system in Jojo is really well done because the characters often need to make strategic decisions with thier powers.
I think this is something that Avatar managed to avoid perfectly. Everyone is capable of powerful bending, and it takes unique circumstances for one bender to overpower the other. Normally, it's more creative use of bending that actually wins fights rather than raw power (though raw power does occasionally win out).
@DOAMANen in HxH is an example of a really good magic system that incorporates power-up elements, but doesn't rely on them to a point it feels cheap. The ways in which you can use Nen are so varied, that being stronger (even much stronger) in terms of raw power rarely guarantees anything
The level system isn't inharently bad. The writing and the direction it took in DBZ is. Where dragonball had a super slow roll of escalating power DBZ' power scaling. Jumped off a cliff trying to catch napkins on the way down. Once the freza arc started and finished how could any of the Z fighters become nothing but combat gods?
Gandalf is not actually a wizard, he's really an Angel and along the same power level as the balrog. And makes sense why we don't know all the things he can do.
"An angel" is a very cristianized and inaccurate way to say "an ainu". There are better ways, like "an entity", "a very powerful being", "an ainu" or "a maia"
What you said about cost not being consistent enough is something I'd called sometimes "the Dragon Ball Z" effect. Because almost every single time Goku and/or Gohan would almost magically earn enough power to defeat the new adversary. When I was a kid I didn't care too much about that, but now being grown up I can't help but feel it was always a bit TOO convenient...
Haha! It's funny. As a kid, I felt weird because I was seemingly the only boy who didn't like DBZ. All I could ever think is 'where does there power come from?' I clearly haven't changed. ~ Tim
Hello Future Me that's weird cause I thought that about other anime like fmab, in dbz they had episodes where they trained doing pushups and situps and sparing so every time they did that I thought oh they're gonna get stronger, but when I saw Ed clap his hands together and use his magic I was like "I didn't see a single pushup how does he have the power to transform the ground like that"
The Dragon Ball series is more along the hard magic system considering the fact that there are very clearly defined rules that govern their powers (staying Super Saiyan for too long will drain your stamina, but through enough intense training, you can stay in that form longer) while convenience does play a large factor in it's story (Of COURSE there's another form that's only spoken of in legends and heresay of an ancient race that describes another way to obtain more power). So it does have clarity, without the consistency a series like Avatar has
I think it was explained with something like saiyans got stronger the more stong their opponents were. So if they somehow survive an opponent above their level their power level will rise rapidly. Count the number of times Goku have been close to dying or died in the series.
Hunter Fox hard magic my ass, goku gained the ability to read people's minds by doing pushups, situps, and and working out. Vegeta gained the ability to Guage people's energy without a scouter by getting beaten near death on earth. Neither case makes sense.
Francisco Gallego lmao I don't think we ever had an explanation on why they had magic. The greater example of *A WIZARD DID IT* why we have magic ? *WE'RE WIZARDS* !
You've got Eragon's magic system wrong. Yes, the energy comes from inside you, and leaves you exhausted, but the magic comes from your education and anantomy, not force of will. At the beginning of the series, Eragon struggles with magic because he's uneducated. He expends a great deal of energy trying to creates a fire because he ties to use magic to ignite the whole object at once. He later overcomes this by igniting only a small part of the object and letting the rest catch fire naturally. Likewise, he expends magic trying to crush someone's body with a magical force but later learns that it is more efficient to just pinch off a blood vessel or cause an aneurysm. It's easier to shatter an object by pushing a small amount of force into a pressure point than rip an object apart. So not only does Eragon have to educate himself about the natural world around him, he has to problem-solve and use magic creatively -- and he is then still constrained by his vocabulary and grammar in the Ancient Language. In Eragon, that's what set the great magicians apart from the novices. It wasn't that they had more magical endurance -- it was that they were clever. Of course, your magical ability is still constrained by your physical abilities, so your casting ability could be expanded, but that was similar to how the human body naturally exercises. An obese and slothful person can conceivably achieve body-builder levels of strength and endurance by working out, but no amount of training is going to allow him to throw boulders. That's how magic is. The above paragraph is also why the Dragon Riders were considered to be so powerful: the rider and dragon shared a reservoir of magic. A human magician could never throw boulders because he physically never would be able to expend that kind of energy. A dragon could, though. And in the lore of the series, a dragon is an immortal creature that just gets bigger and stronger as it gets older, so a rider essentially has limitless potential. This also explains why there was a whole half-a-book building up to Eragon becoming an elf. Elves were naturally stronger, faster, tougher, etc. than humans, so Eragon was always limited by his human nature. By transforming into an elf, he was granted a lot more magical ability than he ever could achieve as a man without Saphira getting much older. So, in the end, a magicians ability was determined by: physical anatomy, physical fitness, knowledge, vocabulary, creativity, and whether or not he was bound up to a dragon (and how old and fit the dragon is). In order to be a powerful magician, you had to train all of those things. In my opinion, it was one of the most well-conceived hard magic systems ever written.
There is also the possibility of storing "energy" in gems, IIRC with no limit besides how much you can provide overtime, which allows for an element of preparation before battled (the bonded magic shields) Also if you are skilled enough you can connect to any creature close enough and take their energy, which allows for team efforts or using your enviroment. At the end of the day, Eragon's magic has quite simple rules but allows for great depth. And then the dragons can do soft magic because dragons. I still love it
Oh, yeah. I forgot about the gems. But I would contend that even that caveat doesn't make your magic limitless because gemstones could be saturated with magic depending on their size, type, and purity. Also, remember that the fact magicians could drain energy from other living creatures was a closely guarded secret, even among the elves, and not every magician (even the ones who knew about it) could do it.
You need to be well-educated and fit to be the best wizard you can be. But as with success in the real world, it's conceivable that a lazy person can still be more fit than a person who trains, and an uneducated person can still be smarter (more creative and intelligent) than an educated person.
My favorite hard magic system is from a very non-standard place: Thaumcraft 5, the Minecraft mod. Basically, all magic comes from the Void, which lies just outside the universe. Magical energy leaks through in the form of vis, which can be manipulated as energy. Additionally, all matter contains essentia, which is essentially the base concepts which form an object-- for example, stone and dirt both contain Terra essentia, whereas iron contains Metallum, as, while they have certain things in common, they're conceptually very different. As for the four "things to remember": Predictability: It's a game system, which means you can't make it unpredictable. Random effects are only involved in dangerous, highly volatile magic, and that's more due to it being a bad idea to do mad science, even when science is magic. Limitations: You can't channel or control magic by yourself. You need specific items to do it. You can't cast a certain spell without a Casting Gauntlet and the focus crystal for that specific spell. Weaknesses and Costs: I bundled these things together because the weaknesses are the cost. For one, if raw essentia leaks into the atmosphere, it will react and create flux, which is bad. Too much flux chokes out the local vis, preventing magic use, and can eventually result in a Flux Rift, a deadly tear in reality, and from there it turns into Taint, which is also a very bad thing. Additionally, the vis in an area requires time to recover after being used, and too much use can result in no more magic there until it regenerates. It's really oddly cool.
I never heard that it was a magic mod, i thought it was an overcomplicated industrial mod. So instead of having a magic bar you have to wait till the area you cast the spell recharges, and certain spells have side effects... that's really cool, more than ars magica
That's actually a really good example! I feel like the author of the mod definitely set out to design a hard magic system with clear rules and ramifications. It approaches magic from a very rational and intellectual perspective- especially visible in the way progression is structured around researching and theorizing to come up with the inspiration needed to make each new breakthrough.
Hunter x Hunter has to be my favorite hard magic system. It has two parts. Firstly and most importantly, although it is introduced second in the story, each character has their own unique ability, so trying to figure out exactly what your opponent is able to do is a big part of each fight - someone with a strong but well known ability is usually at a disadvantage against someone with a weaker ability but who managed to keep it as an ace up their sleeve. But perhaps most importantly... Each character gets to decide what their own ability is. And it is governed by one simple rule: the stronger limitations you put on your own unique abilities, the stronger they are. If you decide that you can punch really hard, but only on the third day of each month... You can punch REALLY hard on the third day of each month. Like absurdly hard. The other part of the magic system, Nen, is common to anyone, and has about twenty very clearly defined usages. Unlike unique abilities, Nen can be made stronger by training, selective breeding, etc... But because everyone knows about it, unless you have ridiculous amounts of it, it's probably not a good idea to base your whole fighting style on it. So HxH has a bit of everything - mystery abilities, power creep. It can do pretty much anything it wants, while staying entirely within the pre-established rules. Brilliant stuff that has yielded some incredible results.
Now I know what makes the magical aspect of Once Upon A Time so unsarisfying - because it's swimming in between. They attempt to explain how the magic works, (e.g. the Dark One has to give tether his soul to the dagger, inner magic comes from strong emotions like anger or wanting to protect someone), but they mostly only explain it when it creates a problem, so it feels very out of the blue. We discover limits, but only so that they can be broken. (Eg how you can resurrect someone, how you cam go back in time, that the Land Without Magic has no magic - so you throw a (somehow still magical) bottle of True Love in a (somehow) magical well and boom, magic for everyone). It does feel cheap.
MDoorpsy Nen is thoroughly explained, and even though it's seems, and very much is ulimited, has many rules, and limitations. Nen is supposed to be predictable in the sense of how it works, but unpredictable in the way it can be applied person by person.
I personally love soft magic for storytelling. There is something ancient and spiritual about not understanding why things happen the way they do. A story can't rely on soft magic for resolving issues, but it sure works amazingly as a representation of a chaotic magical approach to nature. Soft magic works amazingly well if it's mostly used for creating conflict - it comes off as especially deadly and unpredictable.
soft magic does wonders to philosophy. to realise that the human is such a tiny creature in a universe much bigger than them and more complex that they'll ever understand. kind of like what we do with anesthesia.
You can do both hard magic and soft magic in one story. Look at overlord anime where soft magic (tier magic) where human learn it like scientific prosedure vs soft magic (ancient magic) where dragon use "ancient" magic to perform basicly a miracle.
Best kind of magic explanation is by far by Dr. Manhattan (when he was fighting ALL of DC heroes). Something along the lines of: Proceeds to see magic users for the first time* “You all believe that you weird “magic”. I must perform further study. In reality, the powers you use are nothing but the scraps of creation. Like random errors in computer code, discarded and forgotten…. To be picked up by those who are also discarded and forgotten.” Process to effortlessly absorb all of the attacks of world-best reality-bending mages and release it, defeating them all instantly* And he was completely right! All of their efforts were futile, and their years of study pseudo-science were a joke compared to somebody harnessing the knowledge of the universe (“waking on the surface of the Sun, perceiving events so small and insignificant that they arguably never happened etc etc”). Imagine if somebody with modern knowledge would appear in avatar, and use their powers to their full extent (science). It would be really refreshing, akin to “The Boys” demonstrating how deadly super powers could be. Example: If you are air user, create vortexes to suffocate everybody. Severe brain damage, any fight over in a few seconds, completely negates fire powers. If you are earth user, rip out bones and minerals from the other’s bodies. Make that minuscule grain of minerals travel up their body and into their aorta, creating micro-tear. Blood pressure will expand the tear and they will die from heavy internal hermitage. If you are water user, create a micro-bubble of void (similarly to the earth technique), akin to the bubble of air in veins. Again, insta-kill. If you are fire user, learn electricity. Afterwards, that would allow you to either read thoughts of others by scanning their hippocampus for flow of electricity. Or, alternatively, you can simply stop the flow of electricity in their brain/heart, giving you insta-kill once again. With knowledge of science and anatomy you can use even minuscule extent of pseudo-telekinesis to completely kill any human being.
@@kingol4801That isn’t really a good explanation for soft magic so much as Dr. Manhattan being Dr. Manhattan, the guy whose entire point is being so godlike he’s completely alienated from humanity. If anything his power is _even softer_ magic, the kind of power subject more to tone, characterization, and the writers’ whims than hard rules. Don’t get me wrong, there are some stories go full “what if we took the tropes and powers of this story or genre to their logical conclusion”, and those include some of my favorites. They often have incredible worldbuilding, rewarding the reader for investing in the world and story alike without sacrificing character development or tone. I just fail to see how Avatar would benefit from this approach, because “everyone has an instant kill button on anyone else in their range” just doesn’t lead to the kinds of story Avatar wants to tell or the tone it’s trying to establish. (Maybe a story like Avatar but darker and with more hard and fast checks on using elemental powers to cause pulmonary embolisms, perhaps, but not Avatar itself.) The one thing I’ll say is that liquid nitrogen/oxygen bending or dry ice bending would be nice for an airbender in the next Avatar series after Korra, but that’s more a matter of airbending not having a variant yet and two other elements getting their own states of matter variants (ice/steambending and lavabending).
@@Tortferngatr Which is exactly the point. Author tried to depict war… without the actual meaning behind what it is to be war. And yes, people are not comfortable with what actual war is like. WW2 and death camps told us as much. So, yes, attempt of the Avatar’s author to just…. “go go, child soldiers, fight war with powers that should inflict extreme pain and mutilation”….. AND making it kid-friendly is just asinine. It is akin to trying to write an erotic novel and keep it family-friendly. Does not compute
Your damn epic sax Gandalf got me every freaking time! Hahaha! And well done on the video, never even heard of you before now and, I must admit it was well made. You've just earned yourself a sub.
It's interesting that you didn't touch on the Mistborn magic system despite having it in the title and discussing Brandon Sanderson's magic rules. Especially considering that Mistborn has one of the hardest magic systems out of everything you mentioned.
S-wo Mistborn's magic is based around metal. It's called Allomancy and the users Allomancers. An Allomancer must ingest metal into their body usually with water or an alcoholic solution. Once ingested one "burns" the metal, that's the term used. "Burning" metal will allow you to access the power in this metal that exists in the world. The powers are varied depending on the alloy. Mental abilities, physical abilities etc. And the amount of time for using that power depends on the amount of metal ingested. And different alloys take more time to burn than others. Tin for example is an alloy that enhances all five senses all at once, which is both useful and overwhelming for the user all at once, one has to learn to block out all other senses and focus on the one you want. And Tin is one of the longest burning metals, If I remember correctly it can be hours before burning out, while some other metals can take minutes. One of my two favorite mental metals are zinc and brass. Zinc will enflame a persons emotions, while brass will calm or sooth a person's emotions. Two interesting metals are Iron and Steel. These powers act almost like magnetism or telekinesis. When burning steel you can push on nearby sources of metal from your center of balance, you cannot manipulate it in any direction it can only be pushed away and Iron does the reverse pulling things toward you. But the best part is it will depend on your weight and the weight of what your pushing or pulling. If what your pushing is lighter it will be pushed, if your lighter you will be pushed, and if your weight is the same you both get pushed. It's a very logical and well made system.
It should be noted that the Allomancy laid out by Jedidiah is one of THREE magic systems detailed in the books, the others being Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, and the differences between them relate to the overarching cosmic conflict that runs through the series. Only one viewpoint character in the first trilogy (the only Sanderson books I've read) is a Feruchemist, though, compared to a variety of Allomancers, and it's only in book 3 that the leads start to get their heads around Hemalurgy. Also, steel- and iron-based Allomancy don't seem to actually be consistent with Newtonian physics. They just kinda pretend to be.
IZEASGT I figured since the person didn't know about the magic of Mistborn that the main one Allomancy was the only one worth bringing up until that person read it.
Another great magic system you didn't mention is Hunter x Hunter's Nen System. It's really complex but it's really well put together and gives its own spin on the concept of life energy/aura.
@@andreherbst9057 To me it feels like the perfect magic system since any superpower can be explained with it, for example Spiderman's web shooting could be a mix of conjuration and manipulation, superman's laser beams could be conjuration or transmutation as well as emission, Naruto's rasengan emission and transmutation maybe even some enhancement. Brilliant
Yeah, I love Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles, and the Sympathy magic in it is a perfect example of a hard magic system. The laws, limitations, and consequences of sympathy (and to a lesser extent, Naming) makes the actions of Kvothe much more believable. And, of course, much more entertaining.
I found it especially interesting when I started learning about thermodynamics a while after I read the books. It's amazing how well Rothfuss's magic system lines up with the rules of our own world. (I might be a little be wrong here because I read the books way earlier than I learned about thermodynamics)
Sympathy is probably my favorite magic system outside of the 3 mentioned in this video. I love the idea of channeling energy sources, and just hope that someday we get that third book!
I like how magic is written into GOT. Almost like it is a dying art, even a myth to some. I like how magic accompanies certain plots but isn't the defining factor of the series.
@@sadnessofwildgoats Lol. My hope died a while ago, especially with all the scandals Rooster Teeth has been having. The only thing that can save RWBY is a reboot starting from season 3 with different creators and all the people who knew what Monty wanted on board helping.
@Wasabi Lover There are semblances with could be seen as power. The dust is like more along the line of potion and 1ups.Then you have the gods and there power and a cursed woman with her power. No witches
Magic was initially gifted to the first Humans by the Brothers. Semblances are a literal 'semblance' of Magic, but now tied to an individual's nature without the versatility, scope and power of Magic. Dust is the magical remains of the First Humans after the God of Darkness wiped them out. It is magic fossil fuel.
I don't know what to say; my eyes weren't nuked with ads, no filibustering to hit time limits and a genuinely well-thought out and funny (GANDALF) script that outlines and summarizes some pretty good ideas. Thanks for making quality content, the internet needs more like this, keep on keeping on.
A thing similar to the "hard magic system" that I've always liked, is the "Obeisance" / "Renumeration" system in "Darker than Black". (契約対価 [Keiyaku Taika] in Japanese, literally meaning "contract compensation"). The way it works in the anime series, is that characters known as "Contractors" have abilities of varying strengths, and, after using their abilities, they must pay some kind of debt for the powers they've used, the severity often in direct proportion to their ability. For some it may be excessive drinking, others have to spill their own or someone else's blood, some grow older, some fall asleep, some must fold origami, etc. Contractors who don't perform their Renumerations die, so while it isn't strictly magic, it's a pretty good example of the systems you are mentioning. I do think that there are ups and downs to either system. If there are too many limits, it can hinder storytelling, and if it's too vague, it can seem like a get-out-of-jail-free card in any tense situation. Even in the case of FMA they have to break their own imposed rules, but the way they do it comes off as exciting and unexpected, because the viewers have gotten used to the limits. In the stories where soft magic is utilised, I often find that it is coupled with seeing the magic from the perspective of someone who wouldn't know what they were seeing. In this way, it makes total sense, and would break the narrative by a non-magician suddenly being really knowledgable about magic (without a reasonable backstory to explain why), or the narrator expounding about it, establishing rules, etc., when it should remain mysterious because of the PoV from which it's being observed. So, the various degrees of "solidity" of the magic systems in stories, tend to go hand-in-hand with whatever perspective the story is seen from I think. I think the reason why the magic remains vague in LoTR and ASoIaF is due to the fact that the majority of characters don't know how to perform magic, and thus the reader should have the same ignorance, rather than being able to understand something that most of the characters don't, which could result in an unintentional narrative of the readers being far more knowledgable than the characters. Granted, that might be the outcome intended for some stories, but likely not for serious stories that are meant to surprise you (which tends to be most fantasy stories some reason), since it's usually a narrative mechanic employed more often in comedy.
As someone who's heavily interested in writing my own fantasy novel someday with its own world, this helped me a fair bit. While I've generally gotten through a good part of how the world looks, ideas for locations, races significant other things and partly the characters in the story as well as a plot, coming up with an interesting magic system is pretty rough and I've been unsure whether to go hard or soft. This video atleast gave me ideas on where to go for a hard one, and that I was perhaps focusing too much to make it cool and unique, but didn't think the cost and limitations of it. That said, unsure whether it'd be hard or soft, so I'll be watching the other video too. Thanks a lot for making it! :D
For years I’ve had this really cool concept for a magic system that’s like there was this ancient civilization and to use magic you had to draw a word or letter in the air and say it out loud to cast a a spell and since the civilization has died out people have to learn spells from things carved on walls, or books. And then the dragon prince did the exact same flip flapping thing and now it seems like I’m being unoriginal☹️. whatever the dragon prince is cool.
i think its actually a common theme for the current civilization in a story to be trying to rediscover the secrets of a lost one. (probably inspired from how little historians know about ancient cultures that didnt have writing systems) So id def say youre not seeming unoriginal at all and should keep your cool magic system concept!! your readers/viewers will thank you
I feel like hunter x hunter deserved a nod here as well, easily one of the best explained and most interesting magic systems I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing, with each individual persons access to a hastu affecting their personality and how they think, and keeping mystery and an unknown in fights, keeping people cautious. However, this is balanced by everyone using an identical hard magic system accept for their hatsu, with ten zetsu and Reno being the same for all characters. The different nen categories was great as well, as each category had strict limitations, but seemingly endless possibilities.
I really like how he makes it so the limitations are set by each individual person to make there powers stronger like (SPOILERS) How Genthru has to tell people about his ability to activate it or Kirapika not being able to use chain jail on anyone but the members of the phantom troupe
You don't need a wand IF you are skilled enough. Otherwise magic still be magic but you are more likely to make stuff happen without meaning and without control (like Harry did a lot).
that one is actually both countered and supported in the stories. some magics can easily be used without a wand, but other magics are impossible to use without one. but the same could be said about flying. you don't need a broomstick.... if you're Voldemort, his daughter, snape, or Quirrell.
@@BM-jy2gh not uncontrollable just tricky, like with ant akill. Harry and Neville are at a disadvantage because they have no guidance, but neither did hermione but she spent time to practice and gain competency with her talent.
One of my favorite magic systems are from Warhammer fantasy: source of all magic is Chaos. Basically then chaos energies goes from polar gates, it splits into 8 magic winds. Wizards can see or feel these winds and wave them to create spells. But remmember that all magic comes from Chaos - destructive, corruptive and mutating force. Using all 8 winds leads to quick mutations, insanity and corruption. To use magic one must study in Aldorf's collages of magic and can only choose one of 8 winds. If you bend more then 1 wind - you get exposed to more pure form of chaos energies and turn to mutant. On other hand High elves are capable to use all 8 winds since they know how to control magic energies in harmony becouse they have stronger minds then humans. So in conclusion - warhammer fantasy magic have heavy price ( exapt if you are high elf ).
Well, with exceptions. The heiratic magic of the Nehekharans/Tomb Kings is more like the clerical magic in D&D and involves prayers and supplications to their gods, who then grant them magic. It's totally safe and reliable, but not as explosively powerful as some other forms (although if multiple priests are performing the same spell at the same time, it's so strong it's nearly unstoppable).
I really like the Nen system in Hunter x Hunter for that reason. The characters design their abilities themselves, but can only design so many or they forget how to use them properly. It becomes less about how powerful the characters are, and more about how unique powers can be used to take down even the toughest of enemies.
The cool thing about hxh is that the characters make their own magic and it falls around soft magic ( like something healing gon and gon getting crazy power) and hard magic ( hisoka, gon, etc)
im so sad that he didnt dive into mistborn. i just love that magic system so much. i can literally picture them running around, jumping, dropping coins to flip up into the misty night sky... i feel like this is such a great story for a movie. is anyone on that? id watch it no matter how good it would turn out!
Fantastic series. Puts it in an easy to understand format. I am a teacher and I have a few students who have been working on their own stories and struggling with how to balance a magic system in it. I showed them these videos and it clicked for them and their stories are looking much more believable now. Thanks.
I LOVE the way the Avatar series works it. Logically progressing from earth to metal, fire to lightning, water to blood. I also like the way Natuto works. A mix of knowledge, talent, very hard work, theft, gifting, curse, heredity, and costly and sometimes gruesome personal sacrifice are all options, making for interesting differences in the many characters' paths to become stronger.
Late comment, but one “cost” I always really liked was the way Druids are sometimes played in D&D. They can get very powerful abilities from nature, but to maintain it requires a strong connection to it, to the point they end up living like animals and can even get anxious/unwell in a city. I know not everyone plays druids that way, but it seemed pretty cool that in order to use a certain kind of magic, you need to become part of it yourself. I guess like characters who use holy magic must dedicate their lives to that particular god and live by the tenants. It’s a cool way to see how magic, and the cost of magic, can deeply transform who you are as a person.
Cormac Regan What makes HXH so great is that there are set rules for nen but what you can do within those rules is almost limitless. I think things might change somewhat though when they finally make it to the Dark Continent. You know, in a decade or so.
Mauricio Nada I thought that was a general idea in the fandom cause of the scary ass monsters (I haven’t read the manga but I know the general plot so far but nothing specific and I want to keep it that way pretty please).
No one really seemed to mentioned it here but one of the best things about the magic in the inheritance cycle isn't just the exhaustion system but also the way magic is channeled. In the books magic is channeled through the use of a language and trying to conjure up power. For example someone would channel their power and say "Fire" to conjure up fire. This allows a huge amount of variety in the way magic is used and also provides a direct reasoning and correlation between training and strength. Someone who is fluent in the language can do incredible things whereas someone who only knows a few words can only do simple things, even if they're the equally as strong. For me it's the best magic system that I've seen and is one of the largest parts of why the series is still my absolute favourite even to this day.
I used to talk about how I divided magic systems into the ones where magic couldn't be explained nor predicted and the ones where it could. The Inheritance Cycle was always my go-to on the latter , and I do believe it is one of the best magic systems created. It's really nice to know this is actually something that has been talked about! :)
Best system will always be Naruto hand signs for me, that shit looks awesome and is a brilliant idea... honestly my least favorite is words, but then again in Harry Potter that is solved nicely
Don't forget the whole "whatever it means to you" bit of Inheritance. If i said "fire" i could just make a small fire or i could make a fireball; i think it was Brom who said "One can say "water" and end up creating a piece of jewelry". I believe this allows for an even better effect for the reader, since they can see the logic behind a character's thoughts and spells, which makes a story much more immersive.
"Best system will always be Naruto hand signs for me, that shit looks awesome and is a brilliant idea" What about when the best ninja don't use hand-signs? The Rasengan, arguably the most well known jutsu from Naruto, doesn't use any handsigns. And some jutus that normally use loads of signs can be done with one if you're strong enough - like when Kakashi and Zabuza have to use loads of signs to do Water Dragon and yet the Second Hokage can do it with just one.
exodiathecoolone yeah it should be more consistent. I don’t mind bloodline stuff such as sharingan tho, that makes sense since it’s actually the eye that wields the power. Anyway I like the hand signs idea. It’s pretty unique. I also like scrolls with signs. In the end, there’s multiple tools to use magic and they’re visually impressive and yet not overly flashy. Naruto strikes a balance and is fresh compared to so many other magic systems which are basically just ‘say a sentance’ or ‘point glowy end at enemy’ or ‘Aaaaaaaahhh’.
so, this got me thinking, Eragon fits a hard magic system incredibly well. there are set rules that cannot be ignored. Doing a task with magic takes as much energy as doing the task by hand, if the spell has been cast, it cant be uncast untill the user is dead or the effect is complete, most peoples knowledge of magic is limited to their vocabulary of the magical language, unless its a skilled user that can do it without speech, even then for one to be a good magic user they have to understand the basics of what theyre trying to do. this was a cool thought expirament.
The Naruto who fought The Nine Tails, an entire war, a God, and his best friend right afterwards all in a very short span of time in between would like to disagree with you. Also, holy shit, Kakashi spammed tf out of kamui. "I have less chakra reserves then Naruto" my ass
@@Crimzonbreaker I agree. The most Naruto and Sasuke could've done, realistically, is a basic brawl with a rasengan/chidori or two. This is all without considering stamina either, they should've been tired af after Kaguya. But hey, the final "best friend" fight was cool ig
I experienced a magic system in the 70's (I've forgotten which) where limitations and costs were intertwined, so you could ignore a limitation if you paid a high enough cost. Things that would be easy to accomplish non magically if you were a little stronger, smarter, or luckier were cheap, the more unlikely an effect was (including levels of impossibility) the higher the cost. IIRC, you could exercise full godlike power for a minute then fall unressurtably dead. Higher skill could increase effect or reduce cost in predictable ways.
My magic system: There are 3 classes of sorcerers based on how they source their magic: 1: jackal: jackals utilize magic or cursed items that they find or steal. Advantage is that its safe to use. Disadvantage is that they'll have to get creative. For example, they might find a painting that always results in house fires. Could use it as a kind of bomb. Finds a car that kills it's driver (little bastard spider). Implant it's parts into someone's equipment as a form of sabotage. Mage: mages are like typical witches, using rituals, shrines, and chants. Advantage is that its powerful. Disadvantage is that it takes long and needs alot of ingredients depending on the ritual. Worms: worns live in symbiosis with demonic and spiritual parasites which empower and influence them. Advantage: its instant to use. And has little limits. Disadvantage: the spitit in you has it's own agenda. Very dangerous. There are also 3 classes based on how they use their power: Ruffians: use magic to make their bodies stringer and more bulletproof. Advantage: makes you strong as fuck. Disadvantage: you can't do much other than punching things and flipping cars with your dick. Hunter: hunters either use magical or cursed tools and weapons or channel their magic through normal tools and weapons. Advantage: get to use all kinds of guns, blades, ect. Very versatile. One of the very few ways long range magic can be used. Disadvantage: you're limited by the weapons you have. And you better not run out of ammo. Wraith: wraiths are like wizards on meth. They typically throw balls of pure magic energy or convert that magic to other energies like electricity or gravity. Advantage: super powerful. Wraiths have other abilities. Like teleporting, healing others, and floating. Can make their own new abilities and uses then super aggressively. Disadvantage: VERY demanding to use. But other than that, no one knows. Let me know what y'all think
I like the three types of sorcerers, especially the names. Seems realistic to the spread you'd get with magic laying around - people who use trinkets but don't know how to make/actually use it versus people who actually do. As for the classes based on how they use their power, I'm wondering why someone can't use all three classes. I can use magic on my weapons, and bulk up my bod so I can use those weapons well, and then use a wraith spell if I need a last-ditch teleport out/magic grenade. (Also. Lol. Love the mix of modern tech with magic in your example. Definitely know a couple guys that would be happy just to be able to go around flipping cars their dicks.)
This is great, I liked how you balanced the powers and limitation depending on how strong each one is, but the real challenge would be writing a cohesive story that takes advantage from it, well done and keep going :)
im not into magic but its pretty original and would make a good fictional universe with a dark tone. im more into science fiction but replacing magic with sci fi nonsense would also make it work like instead of worms getting powers from symbiotic demons, they could get them from symbiotic aliens or something.
This helped a lot! I’m making a power system right now that I call: *’Spirituals’* They are basically glowing orbs that are living in objects, plants, etc. that if they choose you, they can give you magic that varies in plenty of types. (They don’t have mouths, so they speak telepathically) The Spirituals aren’t all powerful. If they are mistreated, they leave you. If they are too tired, your magic temporarily stops. There are plenty more drawbacks to them. “Is this good?”
I think it sounds very, very good, you have a set of rules and limitations and it sounds very interesting. I don't know if you've already done so, but if not, I suggest you give more specifics as to what type of powers they get depending on the source of their spiritual or perhaps some other factor? Also I think the maybe there could be a better name but that's merely my own opinion. Overall it sounds like such a really, really great idea! I wish I could think of something that good for my own writing. (Also btw, looking at your profile picture I take it that you're familiar with Genshin Impact? I'm just curious. Was it part of your inspiration for your magic system? I do see similarities from what information you've given about your own system. Like the way characters are kind of, bestowed their powers?)
This is already a concept, there’s an anime called MAGI and magic comes from ether (life forces of nature) and MAGI is well liked by these forces of nature. The more well liked you are, the more power these “ethers” will grant you. Anime is for sure #1 place to get magic system inspirations
One of the most unique hard magic systems I've come across is the drafting system in the lightbringer series by Brent Weeks, really good read as is his first series the Night Angel trilogy. Drafters are individuals with the ability to "solidify" different colors or shades of light into a substance called luxin, some drafters are only able to draft a single color (monochromes) while some can draft two three or even more (bichromes and polychromes). Each color of luxin has different properties, red luxin can be gelatinous or a tacky solid and is generally always flammable, green luxin is strong a springy, blue is very hard and brittle and can be made very sharp etc. A drafter must be able to see the color they are drafting, they can't draft in the dark or if there are no light sources that produce their color. A green drafter will be able to draw in and draft more if they are in a forest for example. To facilitate drafting if there are no direct sources of your color there are spectacles with colored lenses that drafters can wear to help them draft but these are fairly expensive. When one drafts the light "energy" or magic is drawn in through the eyes and is processed by the body in some way, the luxin is generated and can be held under the skin, the drafter then "excretes" the luxin, this can cause tearing of the skin and wounds if the drafter isn't careful or is inexperienced. Drafters are limited in how much drafting they can do, as a drafter draws in light and produces luxin it stains their irises, the coloration builds up until it completely fills the iris, if a drafter continues drafting they "break the halo" and the luxin spills over into the whites of their eyes and they begin to lose control of themselves as their "color" takes control of them, so a drafter approaching this point must either completely swear off drafting (very hard due to the mental effects that luxin and drafting has) or elect to be ritually killed to prevent them from turning. Each color has mental effects on it's user, red luxin fans emotions such as lust and rage, blue imparts a calculating clarity etc. There is a lot more to it but you'll have to read the books for that, they are very good (although the second one does drag on a bit) but it is one of the most unique magic systems I have come across and is very well thought out and a fine example of a very hard magic system.
I'm glad someone else mentioned the Lightbringer series. They're interesting books, and the magic system is very well designed. Also, that was a good explanation of how it works, in general.
Thanks, I figure the more people buying/reading his books the more time he will have to finish up the series lol, I hoped I didn't mess to much up it's been about a year since I read them, almost time for a re-reading I think, once I finish re-reading the Altered Carbon series
(Commenting this at begining) Eh. I don't dislike the new format, but I'm not a fan. A big element of what makes your videos entertaining is your fun and energetic attitude, facials expressions, and overall presence. (Written while watching) Ok, I'm finding the Gandalf meme inserts enjoyingly funny.
That s why I like the magic system of My hero academia : it's soft enough to explore an infinity of ideas and powers. But each power and how you can get powers are really hard magic. Except One For All and All For One linked power, you receive one power at birth, you stick with it and each power has his own rules, his own weakness that they cant cross. So you can have an emphasis on how each character exploit their powers
I have 6 magic systems in my book Elemental- depends on your connection with the moons, using wrong element can permanently demage you. Book- spells and potions, you need practice, memory and intelligence Tattoo- requires ink and covering your body, if you're bodies full you can't gain more and you can't get rid of it. Genie- asigned at birth and you don't have much control over it, the people around you do. Shape-shifting- either asigned at birt, which is adjusted to your body, or given to you which makes it painfull. Portal magic- ancient magic that no one truly understands.
That's not accurate because plenty of Nen users go fighting nonstop with little physical fatigue. Also every Nen user can use other categories of Nen applications, showing it isn't limited.
Nagato the Nutbuster you forget that using a Nen ability from a different category is extremely hard and can effect your mental state. Hisoka literally caused a man to have a mental breakdown because he was an enhancer using conjurer and manipulator abilities. So yes, it is limited.
power: tap into various wavelengths limit: requires intense focus and level head. cost: effects outward is equal the inward strain weakness: breaking focus of the magic user.
Thank you for this. I'm making a comic and this really helps me to build an interesting and stable story without making it seem everywhere. You've gained a sub!
![On Writing: soft magic systems in fantasy [ Tolkien l Game of Thrones l Harry Potter ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZVrnfniQiS8/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: soft magic systems in fantasy [ Tolkien l Game of Thrones l Harry Potter ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: Magic Systems and Handling Power Escalation [ Mistborn l Last Airbender l Naruto ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PlwBjNkHC50/mqdefault.jpg)
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GET ON WRITING AND WORLDBUILDING VOL II (the book with ALL the discussions we've had + tons of extra depth and detail) I linktr.ee/timhickson
~ Tim
I love full metelalcamist
With all this talk about magic, limitations, and cost, I found myself thinking of the Syfy show, "The Magicians".
They're style doesn't explain everything, but maintains an amount of predictability. And each season becomes more drastic, as the limitations and costs compound. It seems like whenever they find one magical solution, the repercussions from that solution only serve to create a larger problem, which seems to be a main theme of the show
Here's another good hard magic system, look up the web comic Kubera, each spell is borrowing a small portion of a God's powers and there are even limitations based on when you are born as to what magic you can use. Not only is there magic borrowed from Gods but there are abilities each being can possess called 'transendentals' which are a more soft magic type that has much more variety as well as an entirely different system of use and availability. Honestly it is a world I want to see a lot more of.
Hello Future Me do something on warhammer or warhammer 40k?
And I just remembered one of my favorite anime, "Charlotte". Not so much magic as super powers, but the main character even states that a lot of the powers seem half-assed. Like, the main character can possess other people's bodies, but only for five seconds, and the main female character can make herself invisible, but only to one person
So you're saying when it comes to Gandalf's limits, it a bit of a ......grey.....area?
Oh man. How did I *miss* this joke!?
~ Tim
Cue the epic sax guy
DAH DADADADADA DAH.
Deon Chawaguta
Groan
Gandalf the -grey- -black- -white- -old- racist
"With no parents because they're invconvientent for the plot" never heard more honest words
I can imagine Potter's mother causing a mayhem in Hogwarts when the goblet of fire picked him.
It's a very real paradox. Don't let anyone tell you mothers are underrepresented in children's books for any other reason than that a good and present mother wouldn't let their young child have the kind of harrowing adventures that many children's and YA stories involve. It would just seem weird or unbelievable, because we naturally default to mothers selflessly protecting their children from harm or forbidding them to endanger themselves.
@@Vinemaple True, though some stories have managed to pull off having the mother still be alive. My Hero Academia is a good example: Deku's mother is very much alive, but Deku is still able to be a hero.
So many characters I've had that I was like...man if I give them siblings and or parents I've got to at least gloss over them and give them characteristics....nah they've been independent since 13. Been there
@@camilalouisem Well, she was dead, so there's that.
Hard magic systems are perfect for world building. In Avatar the cultures and philosophies of the groups that use each element are informed by that element. The Air Nomads have a strong sense of pacifism, the Water Tribes go with the flow, the Earth Kingdom has sturdy values and the Fire Nation has an expansionist policy like how fire can spread.
Water tribes go with the flow but apparently still have sexism.
@@conormurphy4328 Maybe they just want to make sure that the two aspects of water bending (attacking and healing) remain well defined.
Conor Murphy How would that make sexism nonexistent?
Extremely cool that everything in fantasy somehow always comes back to race realism.
Ha, go with the flow😂no pun intended
"If you want to kill a werewolf, I recommend silver bullets."
"Because they're weak to silver?"
"No dummy, they're weak to bullets."
"Forget about silver, we're going uranium depleted round."
The reason silver is used for werewolves (and many other things) is because it is regarded as an incredibly pure substance thus it stalls or halts regenerative abilities.
@@ahandgrenade3640 so Priest-piss uranium rounds work just as well? Right.
@@alvianekka80 "Forget about the uranium depleted rounds, let's just use standard bolter ammo"
@@d.n5287 now we're talking
"transforms into a werewolf, making them vulnerable to silver bullets." I know, right? If only they'd just stayed human, those silver bullets would've bounced right off.
generictroll560 duh.... Isnt that how it works for you?
Ikr ugh they're just making things harder for themselves
yup i love that idea it works soo well to make a character feel grounded i noted this in the character Rhelrahne she physically can't touch metals they melt her skin thats why she's in such light civilian looking clothing (Although it helps her blend in) her sword reflects this idea it isn't a metal its a special crystal she found while in a school trip to a mine specializing in mining the magic crystal elucidate it chose her it floated towards her and so she kept it and fashioned it into her sword i make it that in my universe you need size and intelligence to use magic
thats why the most of the powerful magic users in that universe are demons angels and solarisians (Venus native aliens) which are all genius civilizations which have the power of entire planets and realms on their side with great affordable education and a abundance of food and materials
allowing those three groups to do whatever they want especially angels who just play around with their demon friends and troll humanity there is literally only three exceptions to this line of thought regarding size Ange Rhelrahne and Marika those three are short as hell and Ange is a wolf pup yes even wolves can have magic although these three are absolute genius's Marika and Rhelrahne developed a atomic bomb variant by the time they were in highschool and Ange developed a experimental flight system called Etherium which makes you able to fly faster then a demon (mach 5)
Silver's actually a terrible metal to make a bullet out of: it's too light and too soft. So... yeah; you wouldn't be as vulnerable to a silver bullet if you remained in human form because it might deform and not even hit you.
@@matthewmuir8884
Go away u ruiner
I'd say Naruto starts of as a Hard Magic system but then gets softer and softer as the Naruto gets stronger and stronger
Fr tho
Exactly why I'd dropped the series
That and the war arc dragged on and on. Eh
Almost always, when you get spirit mechs, you’ve gone off the deep end
Sharingan went from letting you create illusions and see chakra to giving you dimensional travelling god powers
Cancer Police
Didn’t byakugan get a similar treatment too? It feels under appreciated.
Limitation of werewolves: They are weak to silver bullets.
Limitation of humans: THEY ARE WEAK TO ALL BULLETS ANYWAYS.
Limitation of Vampires: Stake through the heart.
Limitation of virtually everything else: Stake through the heart.
Seriously apart from Zombies or other mindless undead...there's very little a very large wooden stake (size depending on the creature) can't kill. Even Werewolves can be killed by a Silver Stake.
@@luketfer Yeah, at least Superman's weakness isn't something that everyone else is weak to as well. That's, like, the one good thing about Superman. lol
In all fairness, it's just silver in general. You could brush them with a silver brush and you'd fuck em up
@@erikruder3360 Depends on the fiction.
In Dresden Files there are like... four(?) different types of werewolves in the second book.
Only one has a weakness to silver.
@@midgetsow There's a lot of other good about Superman. You just have to learn it's not about the powers with him.
How to design a hard magic system:
1. Predictability
2. Limitations
3. Weaknesses
4. Cost
5. Style
the easier way to say that would probably be "cause and effect" so for your examples
1, cause and effect and predictability are pretty interchangeable in this regard
2, there is no need for limitations as long as you can show the cause for bypassing them. (e.g. the force doesn't work on droid, but if you push the air around them you can also push them)
3, similar to #2 prevent the cause prevents the effect, but the more defined it is the more you can work around it or find bypasses (e.g. droids are immune to the force, the air around them isn't)
4, this ones a little trickier other than "well what ever starts the cause," it also depends on the system, something like FMA's equivalent exchange has a clear cost where TLAB's costs are more just the time and energy put into bending (and the time and energy put into learning to bend)
5, is for just for bonus points.
@@NoESanity A lot of people prefer getting the summary than watching the video.
Predictability 4:24
Limitations 5:30
Weaknesses 5:51
Cost 7:44
Style 11:36
@@mystic0 no I get that you're just listing off his points. I'm just saying that defining cause and effect for your magic system is the easiest and most concise way to design a hard magic system.
JOJO STANDS
This is basically what nen is.
"forgive me for using [Avatar: The Last Airbender] as the benchmark for all things good and holy in writing, but it is!"
my favorite line
Ya.... But Fmab is better
@@ramkumarm8957 debatable
@@ramkumarm8957 I agree but avatar is great too.
I watched only about 7 episodes from the first season, so for me it isn't. For now, at least.
@@n0zenzur Watch the entire show it's amazing
I just noticed that eragon's magic system is basically just computer coding, but for reality. Like, phrasing something wrong causes a 'bug'(be a shield instead of be shielded) , and sometimes a crash(death). It also requires a in depth knowledge of a specific language and syntax is imperative. So basically they're the most accurate hacking scenes (that are still fun).
Geohie Kim such a shame that they ruined the movie.
This is really why I love eragon so much
It's my favorite hard magic system
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 You ought to read Warbreaker by Brandon Sanderson, it's somewhat similar.
@@TheRealestKuni thanks for the recommendation, I'll have a Look at it.
The 'Law of Equivalent Exchange' is actually the 'First Law of Thermodynamics' _in disguise_ . Pointing it out just in case
forgedude
Or "In nature, nothing can be destroyed or created, everything transform"
Ehh, it's actually a rejection of the laws of thermodynamics. I'm thermodynamics all transformations are unequal exchanges in that you always get less than what you put in due to inefficiencies.
@@elcidbob True dat, although credit where it's due to OP - the first law says you can only lose or break even in transfer of useful energy. The second law says that you can only lose :P
@@Honkwaddle fair point
Mahn, I am loving how scientific these replies got😂😂
I love when people appreciate the complexity FMAB has. It’s one of the greatest stories ever written and told, unlimited rewatches, lovable and alienating characters, truly a masterpiece.
Agreed
Was looking for this comment! 😍
what is fmab?
@@MilanElan Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood
"If you enjoyed Avatar the Last Airbender, there's a good chance you might enjoy FMA:B."
*Immediately shows spoilers from the last part of the entire series.*
Saturn666 anyone who hasn’t watched it wouldn’t understand what was going on anyway...
Yeah yeah I can do it.
r/wooooosh
I was addicted to both of em haha
Yeah I’ve never seen it and I wouldn’t have realized any of that was spoilers until you told me.
@@Peanutjoepap24 if you havent yet, please do watch it. One of the best anime's I've seen. I remember waiting every week for it to come out like 10 years ago.
I remember the first time I started watching FMA:B. I wish I can go back time and rewatch it again like it’s the first time.
I'll never understand when people lump Harry Potter into hard magic. It seems like each book introduces some wild new ability that was mysteriously never mentioned before. Characters are constantly using new spells that happen to solve their current situation. Literally anything could be added to the story at any time
i find a lot of soft magic does that, like the force. yeah harry potter is in no way hard magic.
It's a scale, or a spectrum if you will. Harry Potter has a magic system that is harder than LoTR, for instance, but it's softer than Avatar the Legend of Aang/Korra. I would say it might be hard enough to some people say it's "hard" in a binary way, because of some defined rules, but it has many soft parts to it.
but in 2:17 he shows harry potter as a more soft than hard magic system, he only uses a lot of harry potter in the video to exemplify magic systems in general, and some elements of this system are harder than LotR or GoT
I think Harry Potter magic doesn't actually fall into the Hard/Soft binary.
Harry Potter magic is strongly tied to the intentions and emotions of the characters. Ultimately, Voldemort's downfall is brought about because he doesn't understand how the caster's intentions affect the behavior of magic.
The hard/soft binary is about how to structure a satisfying story concerned with how magic solves problems. Harry Potter, as a story, doesn't care about how magic solves problems. Harry Potter cares about how magic reflects the interior lives of the characters.
Harry Potter magic has very hard rules, and these rules are consequential to the plot, but they aren't explained in detail to the reader because the minutia of the rules isn't the point.
I think the books get away from this because of the POV being a boy who is thrown into a magical world he has no clue about, and is growing up in it with his experiences along with the plot. Rowling quite cleverly used this fact to introduce new levels to the magic system in each book.
One thing that personally bothered me much about stories or most fantasy games is: that although characters may be able to learn magic from a variety of schools, most worlds aren't embedded within the rules of their magic systems. No city, no civilization, no kingdom utilizes magic in its infrastructure, architecture, production, measure of wealth, philosophy - and if this is the rare case, it appears arbitrarily. Like there are some chests locked by 'magic', but the concept itself appears to not be thought to an end. It would be authentic to ask the question, how far humans would go with experimenting with magic and building their whole civilization upon it, because that is what people would have been likely done. Magic would be embedded in political systems, ideologies, philosophy and not only in religion. It would fuel people's whole lifestyle, it would produce a strange breed of mechanical and medieval styles and it would design the way social hierarchy works. That's what I really enjoyed about Avatar the last Airbender. They put effort into the art of bending, making it a *vital* element of daily life. Cities, technologies, lifestyles, games, wealth - most of it is build upon bending techniques. Bending an element produces its own sort of culture and ideology, which is depicted for each of the civs: The air benders are nomads, the firebenders have steampower and appear to be imperialists, the earth benders have complex systems and massive structures, they care about stability the most. I wish more writers and game designers would do these "hard magic" concepts. It would be far more interesting to explore their worlds. But this is just my opinion.
Look up the Eberron setting, I think you'd really like it. "True" mages are rare, most are actually "artificers," people who can infuse objects with magic, temporarily or permanently.
You should read the books by Trudi canavan. They all have this. Even though they are all not completely hard systems
Go watch Fullmetal Alchemist (both original and Brotherhood) ...it has all that you mention, alchemy (it’s magic system) is embedded everywhere.
Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series ticks all of those boxes with a very unique and interesting magic system to boot. I highly recommend it.
Anna Damm true. And also the Name of the Wind. Magic might not be as used in civilisation there as in other settings, but that is because its mostly unknown to most people and rly rly hard to learn. But in the town where they teach it they use it for many practical things.
“There are two types of magic systems: Soft and hard”
Dungeons and Dragons: Is it too much to ask for both?
dungeons and dragons, if you play it strictly out of the rulebooks, is about as hard as magic systems get.
@@EllipticalReasoning it actually IS in a wierd in between! D&D spells have a dissonance between the player's knowledge and the character's knowledge. Sure, we know that Fireball does 8d6 fire damage, but i don't think the character in game knows that it does that, or else that would be breaking the 4th wall. Not to mention, magic is vauge and only really explained as manipulating The Weave. What's the Weave? Who the fuck knows! In fact, so many characters have different ways of casting spells that are barely explaines at all, probabaly so the group can have the freedom to make thier own reasons (which i appreciate.) TL:DR, it only seems hard becuase we are looking at it as a player, not from inside the world itself.
@@darienb1127 You raise an interesting point, but I think it fails to be ultimately convincing. You see, even in-game characters can identify the spells another character is casting, and with relatively few data points find their class and (approximate) level. Every time an experienced fighter sees a mage conjure a weapon instantly to their hand (instant summons), he will immediately know that mage can also transport 8 creatures hundreds of miles (teleport). Obviously, in-world characters don't know about hit points, advantage, and d20 roles, but many facets of the spells are deterministic even in-world (for example, durations and ranges are usually exact values).
@@EllipticalReasoning that's fair. But one thing that bothers me is that we still don't have the explanation of how to magic works. Spells typicaly use Verbal and Somatic components, but we are never told what the exact components are. What are the words that need to be uttered, what hands movements, etc. Second, how do spell slots work? How come a 6th level Wizard can only cast 4 1st level spells per day? Do they get tired out? Do they run out of materials? The exact ways of casting the spell is never explained. As opposed to certain other shows and movies where they show that doing certian actions or certian movement will perform the certain desired spell.
@@darienb1127 That's true, especially in fifth edition. If it interests you, you can look through the rulebooks for previous versions, which give a more complete description. In the move to fifth, Wizards of the Coast appears to have moved toward a very generalized version of a game famous for its oceans of specific rules; classes are more similar, feats and skills are much less customizeable, the spellcasting rules are significantly simpler, and more. In 3.5, each spell which required material components specified what exact components they were (hence "the smell of bat guano in the morning", referencing a component of fireball). 3.5 also explained spell limits to some degree; wizards would literally cast all of their spells for the day in one hour in the morning, leaving each one \*almost\* complete. The casting time actually specifies only the last step in a potentially complex casting ritual; thus, higher level wizards can cast more because they can more quickly and confidently complete the complex castings in the morning.
*A WIZARD DID IT*
URealms in a nutshell
Star Wars. Exactly.
1:07
exactly it's also based on how you define things pretty much
3:22
I'm surprised you didn't mention one of FMA's first examples of limitation _and_ predictablility: Colonel Mustang can't perform Flame Alchemy when his gloves are wet. This was a well done video. I always love listening about hard magic systems.
well he can, he just can't use his char cloth (a real thing btw) while it's wet. there was a scene in one of the FMA's (idrwo) where he just carves it into his hand and uses a lighter.
Mustang: I'll get you!
_starts raining_
Lieutenant Hawkeye: You know as well as I do you're useless on rainy days
Mustand: :(
He should talk about the difference I the Alchemy in both anime adaptations of FMA while 2003 is more soft while Brotherhood is far on the hard end of the scale.
@@nanoff815 What's better? The remake or the 2003 version, maybe i will see the serie but i want to know with what version is better to start.
@@XD1999cable I prefer the story and characters of the 2003 anime but if you want something less old that looks prettier, is more action packed, and has an ending that's.. let's say is less divisive then Brotherhood might be for you. The original is 51 episodes and has 2 fillers, 4 and 10 that you can skip, while Brotherhood is 64 so the original might be easier to get into. The original is slower paced with more focus on character drama with a smaller cast and is mostly focused on the 2 protagonists as apposed to Brotherhood which changes perspective to different characters more often. The earlier plot points are covered with a lot more care in the 2003 version. The shows differ early on as the 2003 version starts sowing the seeds for it's own original plot points later. By episode 25 the shows are very different. I think 2003 has the superior soundtrack as Brotherhood tends to repeat songs a lot more. Let's say Brotherhood is more, happy then the original with a happier ending. The villains have different arcs and some differ in name and design between the versions while 3 of them in the 2003 version are different characters all together. Brotherhood is technically the Canon story so if care about that there's that. I would recommend watching them both but if you do do that then I'd say watch the 2003 version first since it's shorter and the earlier plot lines are superior. The other way is to watch Brotherhood for the Canon story and then watch 2003 in your free time for a fresh perspective. If you like manga then you could read the manga which is basically Brotherhood but sorta better in my opinion and with some cool but minor plotpoints that Brotherhood cut out.
"In Avatar: The Last Airbender, and forgive me for using it as the benchmark for all things good and holy and right, BUT IT IS" PREACH. IT. DAMN. RIGHT.
As much as I like Avatar: The Last Airbender, I think that Brandon Sanderson's Laws of Magic do a better job of acting as a benchmark for magic as a whole. Mistborn, for instance, has rules that are so well structured in it that you know EXACTLY what everyone is capable of doing, and there's nothing vague about how powerful someone is.
I'll drink to that! I love magic systems that require intense training and skill.
Matt Desrosiers LoK taught us that you will be handed everything you want as long as you want it a little but don't really want to work for it.
Also in Mistborn you can figure out many of the rules not stated out right by looking into it. It's almost science like in detail
@Majencia I really liked LoK. It wasn't as good as Avatar, but that's almost too lofty a task to accomplish. But I liked the story it told, the characters were well written (not 'Zuko' well written, mind you), and the fight scenes were quality as always.
Brandon Sanderson's magic systems are all absolute gold.
TheInternetNeverLies or, Atium!
@Haku infinite atium beats shards (dead ones at least)
@@mealsome7793 I'm sorry where is the atium reference from? Because shards (I imagine we are talking about Worm) are awesome
@@androkguz Atium, and shards in this scenario, are from Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere series. Atium, specifically, is referencing a metal from the Mistborn series.
He is a great writer.
Him:“They can turn into a werewolf but they become weak from silver bullets”
Me: man i love being immune to bullets
**Silver** bullets. Silver is considered a holy metal and thus would easily be able to penetrate an unholy Werewolf. Same reason why Vampires don’t have a reflection, not because they don’t have spirits but because mirrors are glass with a coating of silver over them.
@@nekrouni8497 He is joking that he is already not immune to silver bullets. If you or I get shot with a silver bullet we die regardless of being a werewolf or human.
Özgür makes sense. Though I don’t think in the video he said **immune** to silver bullets I definitely understand what they are saying.
Özgür oh and also it has a sort of poisoning effect to unholy creatures, and thus why people say they are ‘Weak’ to them.
crunchy silver bullets can goes inside my tummy
Don't forget that a lot of what you said about "Hard Magic" also applies to writing futuristic technology in sci-fi-- consistency, limitations and costs are important in making the technology both realistic and believable enough that our belief can maintain suspended. If problems can be solved by technology, there needs to be a limit in some way that the technology can solve or fix issues, or a cost to the fixing. "A robot fixed it" can be just as frustrating to a reader as "a wizard did it".
It's not every day that you see one (two) of your favourite Smash 4 content creators in the comment section of a video about completely unrelated arguments.
Just wanted to say hi, love your videos :D
It's not every day that we get our fans complimenting us on a different video! :] We don't comment all the time on videos but we do watch a fair amount of content, so you never know where we'll pop up. We appreciate the compliment!
- Paradigm
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C Clarke
so writing advanced tech could use the same tips as writing Magic, yes
Agreed! The natural restrictions on technology are easy to implement, but few sci-fi writers use them, even when so much of the plot hinges on the capabilities of said technology. (Where did you get the materials? How common are the materials? Who built it? How long do they take to build? Do they require special knowledge or equipment to build? How easily replaced is it?) Both "Star" series are guilty of this, churning out massive ships effortlessly in trivial time frames, making the loss of even the largest ships inconsequential.
That is where the hard/soft divide originally comes from.
“... In Avatar the Last Airbender-and forgive me for using it as the benchmark for all things good and holy in writing BUT IT IS. ...” A-freaking-men, brother.
Yep when he said this I knew I had to subscribe
Lol
Until LoK came along and retconned the heck out of the bending system
I disagree..
EsKpistOne it barely retconned
imo the most underrated hard magic system is "Nen" in HunterxHunter
there are as many different uses for nen as there are users, while still keeping the system fairly balanced.
(from wikipedia:) "A Nen user can enter into a Contract (誓約, Seiyaku) where, by pledging to follow certain Limitations (制約, Seiyaku), their abilities are strengthened in relation to how strict they are."
so the strongest abilities come from pledging your own life (or even more) in order to get this power.
but the sheer amount of different powers isn't making balancing those powers worse. instead of just let them bash their heads together, just to let the fighter with the higher level of power win, it's always about fighting with tactics, using the up-/downsides of the abilities and how you use them to counteract the up-/downsides of the enemies' abilities.
despite being probably the most complex Magic-Power system this doesn’t even have any replies yet and not even above 80 likes, what
@@BlessedDominic I know right. Hxh has the best power system and it's my favorite anime. Don't know if you could tell from my profile picture.
@@EngagingOverImmersive I wonder who’s your favorite character. Looking at your profile picture I think it’s Leorio
@@BlessedDominic yeah it’s definitely either leorio or tonpa
@@BlessedDominic Big yes
Talks about environmental factors affecting powers.
Doesn't talk about Roy Mustang being useless on rainy days.
lmao
i enjoy putting environment effecting magic say if its too hot fire based magic turns unreliable but incredibly dangerous and if it's too cold same effect except with ice magic instead say if the forest guardian wolf Ange is in its natural habitat which is a forest its abilities turn it into the most dangerous creature in the world nothing can kill it in that terrain and nobody can withstand its abilities for long couple this with rain improving her abilities even further monsoon rains and being in a forest effectively turns her into Gaea the personification of nature and the god of nature she's basically unstoppable when those conditions are met.
Although she is easily able to use her abilities to solve a diverse range of problems she can reorganize entire towns by lifting the houses with gravity manipulation and rapidly cause nature to grow just by presence alone although despite this she's still vulnerable she's easy to anger and is often really trusting of people and easily gets scared of people a highly capable wolf pup with many disadvantages she has tons of energy but her abilities are actually really physically weak she can throw a building at you sure but even then it still doesn't hurt as much as it realistically should in reality that building would kill you but it doesn't it strangely is like someone stabbing you instead of y'know throwing a damn building in a persons face and her abilities require intense concentration and she needs to be close to the enemy (within 50ft - 115ft) or else her abilities cancel out and leave her enemy with the advantage since she's just a puppy she also can't do it for long her longest was against a single person for almost ten minutes..
so basically do not attack her if those conditions are met because it will be the end of you
I think they elaborated that fire alchemy has nothing to do with fire, not directly at least. Mustang manipulates the concentration of oxygen in the air with extreme precision and the gloves just create the initial spark, but he can use a lighter (like in the most iconic and cathartic scene imo XD) or any other source. Rainy days just make his gloves useless
@@abraxushellsing for what I heard of the author stated or someone theorized that he can actually divide the water into oxigen and hidrogen but doing it would cause a huge and uncontrollable explosion
You expressed this concept beautifully (and hilariously)! You know when you KNOW something, but you don't realize you know it's a thing? That's what this video is for me. A WIZARD DID IT!
So happy you enjoyed it! *wizard away*
~ Tim
> You know when you know something but you don't realize you know it?
It's called following a logical transition. One can have a general understanding that A->C without knowing the details of A->B->C, or even that B exists
Same. I knew there was a reason I didn't like those things, but I didn't know why. Now I do.
My thoughts exactly! I didn't have names for what I liked in a fantasy world, now I know it is called consistent and predictable hard magic.
BAOW
Hard magic best magic. Using the rules and finding solutions are the best thing in writing and games.
Logically, if someone is going to use magic in a videogame, it is going to be hard magic, bc videogames usually require to have Mana costs, cold time, level of use, etc.
But yeah, hard magic best magic.
I dunno. Wheel of Time is one of my favorites and magic could theoretically do about anything there. It had hard qualities in that it cost certain amounts of power and stamina to do certain things, and people have forgotten how to do most of the cool things so they can't be done until someone learns how, but that's about it.
I find that if the magic system plays a large part in the series Hard Magic is the type it tends to go with. Soft Magic systems are usually found in series where there is more focus on other things, like how in ASOIF the main focus is on the war for the Iron Throne and the White Walker invasion.
Yeah I agree. Thats the kind of writing I love. Thats why Kane chronicles>Percy Jackson series
I wouldn't say that one is better than the other. Both have their quirks and downfalls. It's all about your preference and what you are trying to achieve.
Im a starter writer, working on a biiiig project with my siblings and this REALLY helped. The magic system of our story is quite hard actually. The limitation of it is that it uses your Mana, your life force. If you use a bit, you wont feel too different. If you use some more you might get tired. If you use even more your body will suffer physical damage. Maybe cough some blood. Amd if you use even more you might either die or lose the ability to use magic.
that’s basically hunterxhunter but you dont die or lose your ability
@@ZeonicGD Yeah, i feel like that's a pretty comon limitation. "Using magic in excess will cause you physicall damage
@@cupcakejack7375 Yup. Well, it would be difficult to write a story in which expending all your power would actually kill you. Good luck to you and your siblings.
you might want to read some wuxia/cultivation manhua/manhwa where its user uses Qi (Mana in disguise) but there's also "technique" that practice of utilizing life force, of course it is a last resort and it has stronger effect by multiple times compared to Qi.
@@returneefromthemoon Oooh cool! Thanks for telling me
So, essentially in a universe where magic exists "Hard magic" would be akin to science, because it has reliability and, just like science, can have theories and hypothesis on how it's used or how to use it, whereas "soft magic" is magic.
You could make a setting where you use technology as a medium but never clearly state the rules and natural laws of that universe, thus making it based on science but in the style of soft magic. To me it seems calling it science or magic is redundant because science based mediums follow the exact same rules, they sometimes just fall in line more with our own world (ex. Using the law of equal energy and showing that a big ass laser needs a big ass power source). The only difference I see between a science based medium and a magic based medium is that science uses more industrial astethics while magic tends to use a more colour full approach.
Inverse of Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from technology.
I am reminded of X-files. You know, 2 FBI agents go around disproving claims of magic and aliens. Except when they don't.
Your response brought to mind the magic system of the anime Magi. In it, the energy of the world , the Rukh, is essentially souls of the deceased. The titular Magi are able to manipulate the energy in it's purest form, but later it's learn that the Rukh are placed into 8 categories.
Magicians are those who can give commands to this energy in order to perform magic. To create fire magic, the magician would command fire Rukh it to heat up. Those who are innately adept at controlling 1 type can also learn another more easily, which the greatest wizards can utilize all 8. Something like creating a compact steam explosion combines water, wind, and fire and requires 180 commands.
And then after a timeskip, the main character, on top of being able to manipulate gravity to warp space around him, performs one of the greatest feats of completely deconstructing and reconstructing a person's body so it's no longer part of a bloodline, requiring over 1 million commands to execute.
"hard" magic & scifi is usually based on rules and resources. "soft" magic and scifi is usually based on emotions and needs.
For example in Star Wars, not is the "force" only as strong as it needs to be, nonmagical things like droids, spaceships, and weapons are only as strong as they need to be, based on the emotional flow of the plot.
Hard Magic that evolved into Soft Magic: Naruto's hand-signs, chakra, and limited schools of Ninjitsu solving interesting problems --becoming--> god-like aliens, crazy eyes, and unlimited chakra reserves that can do anything the plot requires.
Bleach does this even worse
Power Creep, man. It gets you.
Are you sure that this is an "evolution"? Looks like degradation.
@@MrStealthWarrior degradation is evolution too so
@@MrStealthWarrior The sad thing is that it could have been worked into the story organically. NOPE
There are actually rules and very serious limitations to "magic" in Tolkien's legendarium. In fact, it's not even referred to as magic but either as a natural ability of a creature or because of their skill and training. Most of the time, it's got something to do with the concept of "sub creation."
The Istari are not wizards in the D&D sense; the appellation is only there (and whenever the word is used for any member of the Heren Istarion, it is capitalized) because people in Middle Earth didn't really know what to call these powerful robed old men. That's why in the books you don't really see Gandalf or Saruman flinging fireballs. The closest we ever see or hear of this was Gandalf igniting some pine cones or his story of fighting the Nazgul solo. Even then. the debates were whether these were expressions of his "sphere of influence" as an Istari, or because he was bearer of Narya, the Ring of Fire.
Unfortunately, most of the explanations for powers in Middle Earth can only be found in the later Making of Middle Earth books, which includes extensive essays from the Professor and early drafts of his works.
If you don't want to slog through those, there are several discussions on Tolkien's legendarium and its "magic" system in Quora.
Thank You!
Someone had to say it!
@elijah mikle The book is very clear that it's mostly force of will that matters. It's only later readers, more accustomed to modern fantasy, who might be confused. If you're willing to let go of preconceived ideas of how magic works, and read Tolkien for himself, he's not hard to follow.
Of course, you can do further research into Tolkien's thoughts if you wish, but it is by no means necessary to follow the story.
@YAU LO TAK hi did it so to justify his hard linguistic system
Having just discovered this video over two years after its publication, I know this likely won’t get seen by many people, but I have to give one of my favorite examples of a hard magic system - Nen, in Hunter x Hunter. Limitations, rules and costs are a huge part of how Nen functions, and it has a decent level of predictability. For example, seeing someone’s power being used, you have a good chance of guessing what category of Nen user they fall under, which can then give you insight into what they can or cannot do. Additionally, even though the story is constantly surprising with how powers are used, I never felt as if “A wizard did it”. Everything makes complete sense in hindsight, and you think, “gosh, why didn’t I think of that”. There’s even a way of assigning numerical values to aura usage, reserves and maximum output (if you’re Knuckle). It has an essentially limitless range of possibilities, but those possibilities are bounded by restrictions (eg. conjuring unconditionally unbreakable chains is impossible). It’s such a cool concept because it doesn’t just adhere to the basic tenets of a good hard magic system, it incorporates those rules into the system and story itself - restrictions and rules increase the strength of abilities, there are real consequences of breaking said rules, the extreme cost of an extreme power is tangible, etc.
Sorry I’ve rambled on so long, it’s just one of my all times favorite magic systems!
I know this comment is a year old but another thing I love about nen is how the rules are worked into combat in universe. For example how kurapika played with his opponent’s knowledge on the nen categories. To trick people into think his conjured chains are real, he has them conjured 24/7 which makes them think he’s perhaps a manipulator. Then it gives him the upper hand in combat when he can make his chains appear and reappear.
It’s just such a creative way of working with a power system.
I was hoping someone would mention HxH. It’s by far my favorite magic system. It can really capture your imagination.
Good take. I think Nen is particularly impressive for how it explains every trope and phenomenon you'd expect out of powered individuals. For example, powered individuals can cut through terrain like butter, but they can survive extreme impacts without getting destroyed. Why? Because Nen makes you strong enough to break stone walls, but Nen users shield themselves with a layer of aura during a fight to keep themselves safe. Powered individuals can sense each other. Why? Because Nen users have opened their micropiles, so they can see each other using aura unless they're concealing it. Some people are able to create things with their minds, while some people are just strong and durable. Why? Because of the Nen power categories. People can have all sorts of powers, but you rarely run into two people with even remotely similar powers. Why? Because you have to study something intimately for weeks on end in order to develop it into a power - so you rarely do it with anything you're not passionate about, and most people's powers are extensions of themselves.
Not every magic system tries to explain every type of magic you could imagine. But Nen is one of the few systems that tries to do so and succeeds. That's what makes it so impressive to me.
(Another key example of successfully explaining everything is the powers in Worm.)
I now want a T-Shirt that says " A Wizard Did It"
Go grab one! www.teepublic.com/user/hellofutureme
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe absolute mad lad!
am i right lads or am i right lads?
you are right lad
@@HelloFutureMe I am so buying this !
I want to teach my parrots to say that.
I think the coolest “magic” system is that of hunter x hunter because the more limits a user puts on their techniques the stronger their ability.
HxH was one of my favorite magic systems for awhile. My biggest problem with it was how the big baddies could just ignore the whole condition thing because they had more 'spirit' than they knew what to do with. That and the whole specialist thing which is basically the 'soft magic' category.
Still love the magic system though. Leagues above all the copy and paste 'friendship power' and 'force of will' that's out there.
I think that's exactly what I think is interesting about Nen. Clearly Togashi has thought about it enough to call it a hard system, overall. But, the actual nature of the system is itself SUPER SUPER soft. Essentially, even though no two people have the same nen abilities, they all exist in the same universe under the same moves. There are basic moves that can be copied and learned, there are ways that everyone can use nen to augment their extant skills, but at the high level.. you never get the sense that anyone else in the series is going to learn "Bungee Gum" or Killua's lightning - theoretically possible, but exceedingly unlikely.
Nonetheless, everyone's unique and totally *literally* made up personal magic is still governed by some common rules. Types are consistent (yes, specialist is a wildcard, but Togashi never gives you the impression that the type of the nen is proportionate to its strength or utility.) More importantly, Hunter X Hunter trades on the core ideas of costs, limitations, and weaknesses. They're what make the entire story. You have to train and you have to learn, but no matter how good, knowledgeable, talented, experienced you are, there is no ability without a fundamental risk and flaw - by design. In fact, it is only by increasing the potential flaw that you can increase the potential strength.
It gives you these really interesting dynamics, where even the super powerful OP characters find themselves defeated by simple or unexpected means in shockingly believable ways. Hunter X Hunter is not immune to the asspull BS deus ex machina by any means, but I think it does a pretty good job of making those moments feel believable and even earned because the story never lets you forget that every OP power has a limitation but every limitation can be overcome with cleverness, planning, and a lot of luck.
Also,Meruem power's is justified through chimera ant arc,you see the chimeras struggling to create the perfect king,instead of fmab,that they just destroy a whole country to get the power without any struggling( and with no explanation how they had a philosopher's stone before destroying the country)
Yes!
@@philm.8622 The thing about the big bad guys is that they all had a reason for being as strong as they were without restrictions. Uvogin was extremely powerful due to his mastery of enhancer skills yet he was utterly destroyed by Kurapika, a novice due to the limitations of his powers. Additionally, Meruem is not a stretch due to the fact that phagogenesis was used to continuously increase the power of the next generation (which he was the king of). All other other bad guys are amazing due to their unique and strong abilities that they themselves created in addition to training. The villains are really not a stretch at all.
Another example of a great magic system is HunterxHunter's Nen. I highly recommend you guys watch the anime it is a very good.
Yassin Moufeed Was Thinking That The Whole Time.
I second that!
Yassin Moufeed
Yess, the power system is amazing in how it works. Anyone can beat anyone with enough thinking things through and strategizing
Yassin Moufeed *JoJo
For me HxH is the most complex and well-develop magic system that i know FMA pale in comparison.
Every time I read a Brandon Sanderson book I’m amazed of how intricate and math/science based they can be. He manages to write magic systems that are based in his world building reality. 10/10
I love how the more you and the characters get familiar with the magic system the more it feels like a fantasy science rather than magic. It's such a cool approach that fits perfectly into his world building.
The Navani sections in The Rhythm of War were some of my favorites for the same reason.
@Ethan Newland
The Navai sections in Rythm of War were some of my favorites as well.
A LOTR fan from New Zealand? How cliché.
Oh damn. Didn't expect to see you here lol.
lol is it
Oh shit, it’s you.
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
You best be not dissing my boi @New_Zealand 😎
As much as I love everything Brandon Sanderson writes, I think Mistborn has perhaps the greatest magic system in fiction. The combination of limitations, weaknesses, and costs are really incredible. Hearing Brandon's lectures about it is also fantastic, he really knows how to explain writing like nobody else.
My favorite hard magic system I've seen would have to be from the anime Hunter X Hunter it's so well defined and incorporates all of these principles to make a very well defined impressive hard magic system
nen isn't actually a hard system.
the limitations put on nen abilities to make them more or less powerful are not limitations on the "magic system" but put in place by the user themselves.
in a hard system you'd have cause an effect, mustang's fire alchemy is him controlling the air around him to guide his fire, or a jedi's ability to use force push is them commanding the midichlorians in the air, target, and in the general area to move.
in hxh, there is no cause an effect or explanation related to nen abilities. gon punches really hard until he somehow punches so hard he ages 20 years. no rhyme or reason. in HxH some random guy with nen means nothing. there is no idea of what nen can and cannot be used for except for specific examples we've seen. on the other hand in FMA, you can reliably guess that an alchemist can use alchemy and what that entails. in starwars we know why and how the force works, even if we don't know all the force abilities. nen on the other hand, we don't know why or who or how nen works.
Nen is not even magic
@@chaoticneutral7573 FMA alchemy isn't magic either. the term "magic system" doesn't strictly refer to magic in the sense of prestidigitation, star treks technology is a form of hard magic, because we know most of the ins and out of how it works and can deduce if you were to say, use a transporter on random object what would happen. on the other hand star wars technology is a soft magic system, because we don't know why it does and doesn't work, for example their medical droids are capable of bringing people back from the brink of death, having become quadruple amputees and losing half of their internal organs, but some woman giving birth still has a chance to die, like wtf.
@@NoESanity Well its kinda magic since transmutation circles, arrays and runes are used in Alchemy. Even tho transmutation can be explained scientifically, nature of Alchemy, the Gates and the Truth is still arcane and mystical.
@@chaoticneutral7573 witchcraft to the ignorant is science to the learned.
don't forget FMA also had fully realized prosthetic, but as seen in the movie have no concept of rocket science.
also the gate isn't "arcane" it's spiritual, it's a part of the soul, the gate keeper is analogs to god (in fact truth is straight up refereed to as god in multiple episodes and chapters), and each person has their own personal gates.
just because their science is different from ours, don't make it automatically magic. if on another world water froze at 50f for them, and boiled at 300f, there would be huge differences in scientific principles, but to them it would just be standard science because it is the law of nature for that world.
I like that Avatar's system is like a soft system within a hard system, where it is clearly defined what the elements are and how to use them, but WHAT exactly each character does with them is essentially only limited by knowing the basics of form/movement and having imagination. It means we have a rough idea of how much power someone can access at any time, but we don't always know how they will use it, and the characters consistently come up with creative ways of shaping and using the elements. Aang can open locks with airbending, Katara can neutralize Azula by luring her to the right spot over a grate of water and submerging/freezing both of them in it, as well as shoot razer thin mirror slices of ice at the Northern tribe master, toph can dig tunnels and create overhangs, ledges, even tents. The limitation is in what they control, but its not limited to just shooting a direct fireball or heaving a rock at someone, they are free to shape the element as they wish once they learn how to manipulate and move it with the martial arts moves. Its a brilliant system that is pretty clearly defined but leaves very open-ended possibilities, especially with the niche variations of styles.
I wouldn’t really say they’ve explained WHAT the elements are. Normal physics and science still seems to be a thing with Sokka using it. Or a variant of it. So… are there chemical element or is the universe made of the four elements? The only thing I can see is that the four elements are culturally and spiritually important to the world's population, and the turtles had the powers. But what exactly that power is beyond that, we don’t know.
Too bad they did not use their powers to full potential.
Akin to Aang creating vortexes and inflicting severe brain damage (or completely cancelling fire powers be vacuum).
Or earth powers being used to pull bones out of somebody’s body (The Boys style), since they contain minerals. The closest we got was blood bending and it was…. Eeeeh… awkward puppet technique instead of “bloodbath goes brr”.
Electricity powers being used to scan everybody’s hippocampus to read their thought or simply stop flow of electrons in their brain/heart, insta killing them globally (Death Note style).
So on so on.
Avatar was such a disappointing story. Barely scraping the surface of a glorious power building of what it could have been.
I still firmly believe that Naruto did the job of power system much better.
Powers are pretty self explanatory. But their magnitude is balanced by scarcity: Only by making certain deals with “gods” (tailed monsters) or certain genes (+self-sacrifice) you can do some reality-bending sign stuff.
@@kingol4801 Really? REALLY? It's a kids show!
@@kingol4801 Aside from “it’s a kid’s show,” “that is completely out of tone for the series,” and “not every world has to be a gritty grimdark place where everyone uses their powers as ruthlessly and efficiently as possible,” I don’t think lightningbending has anywhere near the degree of control or sensitivity you’d need to make those use cases work. Vacuum is the only one I’d give that’s both tonally fine and the kind of power Aang would use, and I’ve heard theories that Monk Gyatso died creating one around himself and the comet-enhanced Fire Nation soldiers at his death site.
…that being said, if you _do_ like that kind of story where people win by using their powers in ruthlessly efficient ways, might I recommend _Worm_ by Wildbow?
"So you Want to Be A Wizard"
a magic system so hard you need a phd in quantum mathematics
Basicaly how i doo it in my D&D campaign.
Wizards lern how to "Hack" the matrix.
Warlocks doo it instintly.
Druids have it in their gutts.
Clerics/Paladins pray for someone to doo it for them.
And bards press randome buttons untill something cool hapens.
@@nes819 and sorcerors?
@@diekriegerohnekopf5162 same as warloks.
I play 3.5, so they don't exist in my ruleboocks. I don't know much about them, so i'd be open to sugestions.
@@nes819 Combo between druids and Wizards. Sorcerors have it native born but require training
Idiots don’t need power.
Then there's the weird Hard Magic systems, like My Hero Academia and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, where the abilities generally have no universal rules, but instead each individual has their own hard set rules. Character A can manipulate time, but only in these specific ways. Character B can alter gravity, but only in these specific ways. The two are playing on totally different rule sets, but each rule set is, well, still a rule set.
It's a strange blend of Hard and Soft magic. The world at large is highly unpredictable, but the characters that the story follows are.
But even in Jojo's there's a bit more hard magic to it, like the rule that a more powerful stand has shorter range or if a stand is both strong AND long range then the user has no control over the stand
I feel like Jojo is a good example here, but has the problem that the author often forgets some things
(He admited it)
But yes the system in Jojo is really well done because the characters often need to make strategic decisions with thier powers.
Hunter x Hunter
TheTitan099 no, that's hard magic alright. Just not a magic system.
Naruto is a good example
One thing that writers should ABSOLUTELY avoid is turning their magic systems into Dragonball Z-esque power leveling
I think this is something that Avatar managed to avoid perfectly. Everyone is capable of powerful bending, and it takes unique circumstances for one bender to overpower the other. Normally, it's more creative use of bending that actually wins fights rather than raw power (though raw power does occasionally win out).
kittehdrawrs I am a huge fan of DB and I agree wholeheartedly.
@DOAMA interesting
@DOAMANen in HxH is an example of a really good magic system that incorporates power-up elements, but doesn't rely on them to a point it feels cheap. The ways in which you can use Nen are so varied, that being stronger (even much stronger) in terms of raw power rarely guarantees anything
The level system isn't inharently bad. The writing and the direction it took in DBZ is.
Where dragonball had a super slow roll of escalating power DBZ' power scaling. Jumped off a cliff trying to catch napkins on the way down. Once the freza arc started and finished how could any of the Z fighters become nothing but combat gods?
Gandalf is not actually a wizard, he's really an Angel and along the same power level as the balrog. And makes sense why we don't know all the things he can do.
"An angel" is a very cristianized and inaccurate way to say "an ainu". There are better ways, like "an entity", "a very powerful being", "an ainu" or "a maia"
@@pedro-e-o-lobo yeah but knowing tolkien's beliefs he's basically an angel
@@pedro-e-o-lobo Definitely not inaccurate, lol.
Gandalf calls himself a wizard.
Nevertheless.
What you said about cost not being consistent enough is something I'd called sometimes "the Dragon Ball Z" effect. Because almost every single time Goku and/or Gohan would almost magically earn enough power to defeat the new adversary. When I was a kid I didn't care too much about that, but now being grown up I can't help but feel it was always a bit TOO convenient...
Haha! It's funny. As a kid, I felt weird because I was seemingly the only boy who didn't like DBZ. All I could ever think is 'where does there power come from?' I clearly haven't changed.
~ Tim
Hello Future Me that's weird cause I thought that about other anime like fmab, in dbz they had episodes where they trained doing pushups and situps and sparing so every time they did that I thought oh they're gonna get stronger, but when I saw Ed clap his hands together and use his magic I was like "I didn't see a single pushup how does he have the power to transform the ground like that"
The Dragon Ball series is more along the hard magic system considering the fact that there are very clearly defined rules that govern their powers (staying Super Saiyan for too long will drain your stamina, but through enough intense training, you can stay in that form longer) while convenience does play a large factor in it's story (Of COURSE there's another form that's only spoken of in legends and heresay of an ancient race that describes another way to obtain more power). So it does have clarity, without the consistency a series like Avatar has
I think it was explained with something like saiyans got stronger the more stong their opponents were. So if they somehow survive an opponent above their level their power level will rise rapidly. Count the number of times Goku have been close to dying or died in the series.
Hunter Fox hard magic my ass, goku gained the ability to read people's minds by doing pushups, situps, and and working out. Vegeta gained the ability to Guage people's energy without a scouter by getting beaten near death on earth. Neither case makes sense.
Ultimate soft magic: wizards of waverly place.
Francisco Gallego lmao I don't think we ever had an explanation on why they had magic. The greater example of *A WIZARD DID IT*
why we have magic ? *WE'RE WIZARDS* !
Pierced French Siren Ik right
Pierced French Siren like in the show Alex litteraly created an alternate universe pretty easily
But is it okay to still like it?
Cynthia Heart yeah
You've got Eragon's magic system wrong. Yes, the energy comes from inside you, and leaves you exhausted, but the magic comes from your education and anantomy, not force of will. At the beginning of the series, Eragon struggles with magic because he's uneducated. He expends a great deal of energy trying to creates a fire because he ties to use magic to ignite the whole object at once. He later overcomes this by igniting only a small part of the object and letting the rest catch fire naturally. Likewise, he expends magic trying to crush someone's body with a magical force but later learns that it is more efficient to just pinch off a blood vessel or cause an aneurysm. It's easier to shatter an object by pushing a small amount of force into a pressure point than rip an object apart. So not only does Eragon have to educate himself about the natural world around him, he has to problem-solve and use magic creatively -- and he is then still constrained by his vocabulary and grammar in the Ancient Language.
In Eragon, that's what set the great magicians apart from the novices. It wasn't that they had more magical endurance -- it was that they were clever. Of course, your magical ability is still constrained by your physical abilities, so your casting ability could be expanded, but that was similar to how the human body naturally exercises. An obese and slothful person can conceivably achieve body-builder levels of strength and endurance by working out, but no amount of training is going to allow him to throw boulders. That's how magic is.
The above paragraph is also why the Dragon Riders were considered to be so powerful: the rider and dragon shared a reservoir of magic. A human magician could never throw boulders because he physically never would be able to expend that kind of energy. A dragon could, though. And in the lore of the series, a dragon is an immortal creature that just gets bigger and stronger as it gets older, so a rider essentially has limitless potential. This also explains why there was a whole half-a-book building up to Eragon becoming an elf. Elves were naturally stronger, faster, tougher, etc. than humans, so Eragon was always limited by his human nature. By transforming into an elf, he was granted a lot more magical ability than he ever could achieve as a man without Saphira getting much older.
So, in the end, a magicians ability was determined by: physical anatomy, physical fitness, knowledge, vocabulary, creativity, and whether or not he was bound up to a dragon (and how old and fit the dragon is). In order to be a powerful magician, you had to train all of those things. In my opinion, it was one of the most well-conceived hard magic systems ever written.
VERY well elucidated, my friend.
There is also the possibility of storing "energy" in gems, IIRC with no limit besides how much you can provide overtime, which allows for an element of preparation before battled (the bonded magic shields) Also if you are skilled enough you can connect to any creature close enough and take their energy, which allows for team efforts or using your enviroment. At the end of the day, Eragon's magic has quite simple rules but allows for great depth.
And then the dragons can do soft magic because dragons.
I still love it
Oh, yeah. I forgot about the gems. But I would contend that even that caveat doesn't make your magic limitless because gemstones could be saturated with magic depending on their size, type, and purity. Also, remember that the fact magicians could drain energy from other living creatures was a closely guarded secret, even among the elves, and not every magician (even the ones who knew about it) could do it.
So basically you need to be an Ivy League athlete to be a good wizard.
You need to be well-educated and fit to be the best wizard you can be. But as with success in the real world, it's conceivable that a lazy person can still be more fit than a person who trains, and an uneducated person can still be smarter (more creative and intelligent) than an educated person.
This guy: Talks about magic and clearly refers to ATLA among many others*
Katara: "It's not magic it's water bending."
yeah yeah unique to our culture blah blah blah
Every video makes me just a bit nerdier. Thanks so much.
My favorite hard magic system is from a very non-standard place: Thaumcraft 5, the Minecraft mod. Basically, all magic comes from the Void, which lies just outside the universe. Magical energy leaks through in the form of vis, which can be manipulated as energy. Additionally, all matter contains essentia, which is essentially the base concepts which form an object-- for example, stone and dirt both contain Terra essentia, whereas iron contains Metallum, as, while they have certain things in common, they're conceptually very different. As for the four "things to remember":
Predictability: It's a game system, which means you can't make it unpredictable. Random effects are only involved in dangerous, highly volatile magic, and that's more due to it being a bad idea to do mad science, even when science is magic.
Limitations: You can't channel or control magic by yourself. You need specific items to do it. You can't cast a certain spell without a Casting Gauntlet and the focus crystal for that specific spell.
Weaknesses and Costs: I bundled these things together because the weaknesses are the cost. For one, if raw essentia leaks into the atmosphere, it will react and create flux, which is bad. Too much flux chokes out the local vis, preventing magic use, and can eventually result in a Flux Rift, a deadly tear in reality, and from there it turns into Taint, which is also a very bad thing. Additionally, the vis in an area requires time to recover after being used, and too much use can result in no more magic there until it regenerates. It's really oddly cool.
I left my base with a bunch of flux in the aura because I was in a hurry. I come back a few days later to taint-rotted hellscape. Good times.
I never heard that it was a magic mod, i thought it was an overcomplicated industrial mod.
So instead of having a magic bar you have to wait till the area you cast the spell recharges, and certain spells have side effects... that's really cool, more than ars magica
That's actually a really good example! I feel like the author of the mod definitely set out to design a hard magic system with clear rules and ramifications. It approaches magic from a very rational and intellectual perspective- especially visible in the way progression is structured around researching and theorizing to come up with the inspiration needed to make each new breakthrough.
That actually sounds amazing. I want to see this used in an anime.
I preferred Thaumcraft 4's casting system to Thaumcraft 5's. Staves > gauntlets
In adventure time, the magical cost is madness and sadness.
So true
*The entire isekai anime : "we don't do that here"
That’s mainly cause Isekai anime is just all like “lmao we’re in a video game world” except for Re:Zero
Megumin: *laughs in level 999 explosion magic*
Konosuba actually has a deceptively hard magic system
Konosuba,Rezero and Overlord seem to have the hardest power systems in Isekai.
@@alvianekka80 but Konosuba has a hard magic system I don't know what you're on.
Hunter x Hunter has to be my favorite hard magic system. It has two parts.
Firstly and most importantly, although it is introduced second in the story, each character has their own unique ability, so trying to figure out exactly what your opponent is able to do is a big part of each fight - someone with a strong but well known ability is usually at a disadvantage against someone with a weaker ability but who managed to keep it as an ace up their sleeve.
But perhaps most importantly... Each character gets to decide what their own ability is. And it is governed by one simple rule: the stronger limitations you put on your own unique abilities, the stronger they are. If you decide that you can punch really hard, but only on the third day of each month... You can punch REALLY hard on the third day of each month. Like absurdly hard.
The other part of the magic system, Nen, is common to anyone, and has about twenty very clearly defined usages. Unlike unique abilities, Nen can be made stronger by training, selective breeding, etc... But because everyone knows about it, unless you have ridiculous amounts of it, it's probably not a good idea to base your whole fighting style on it.
So HxH has a bit of everything - mystery abilities, power creep. It can do pretty much anything it wants, while staying entirely within the pre-established rules. Brilliant stuff that has yielded some incredible results.
i like how hisoka powers were weird, but in really are two simple abilities but invisible
Now I know what makes the magical aspect of Once Upon A Time so unsarisfying - because it's swimming in between. They attempt to explain how the magic works, (e.g. the Dark One has to give tether his soul to the dagger, inner magic comes from strong emotions like anger or wanting to protect someone), but they mostly only explain it when it creates a problem, so it feels very out of the blue. We discover limits, but only so that they can be broken. (Eg how you can resurrect someone, how you cam go back in time, that the Land Without Magic has no magic - so you throw a (somehow still magical) bottle of True Love in a (somehow) magical well and boom, magic for everyone).
It does feel cheap.
That's pretty much why I stopped watching.
~ Tim
I would recommend watching Hunter x Hunter (2011) it has a well developed Hard Magic System.
It's hard magic system seems to literally be that users of non create their own personal hard magic system.
But the limits of the created ability are well defined
Especially for conjurers
MDoorpsy Nen is thoroughly explained, and even though it's seems, and very much is ulimited, has many rules, and limitations. Nen is supposed to be predictable in the sense of how it works, but unpredictable in the way it can be applied person by person.
Nen is Cosmere-level. I'd argue it as the top magic system out of the East.
I personally love soft magic for storytelling. There is something ancient and spiritual about not understanding why things happen the way they do. A story can't rely on soft magic for resolving issues, but it sure works amazingly as a representation of a chaotic magical approach to nature. Soft magic works amazingly well if it's mostly used for creating conflict - it comes off as especially deadly and unpredictable.
soft magic does wonders to philosophy. to realise that the human is such a tiny creature in a universe much bigger than them and more complex that they'll ever understand.
kind of like what we do with anesthesia.
You can do both hard magic and soft magic in one story. Look at overlord anime where soft magic (tier magic) where human learn it like scientific prosedure vs soft magic (ancient magic) where dragon use "ancient" magic to perform basicly a miracle.
Best kind of magic explanation is by far by Dr. Manhattan (when he was fighting ALL of DC heroes).
Something along the lines of:
Proceeds to see magic users for the first time*
“You all believe that you weird “magic”. I must perform further study. In reality, the powers you use are nothing but the scraps of creation. Like random errors in computer code, discarded and forgotten…. To be picked up by those who are also discarded and forgotten.”
Process to effortlessly absorb all of the attacks of world-best reality-bending mages and release it, defeating them all instantly*
And he was completely right! All of their efforts were futile, and their years of study pseudo-science were a joke compared to somebody harnessing the knowledge of the universe (“waking on the surface of the Sun, perceiving events so small and insignificant that they arguably never happened etc etc”).
Imagine if somebody with modern knowledge would appear in avatar, and use their powers to their full extent (science).
It would be really refreshing, akin to “The Boys” demonstrating how deadly super powers could be.
Example:
If you are air user, create vortexes to suffocate everybody. Severe brain damage, any fight over in a few seconds, completely negates fire powers.
If you are earth user, rip out bones and minerals from the other’s bodies. Make that minuscule grain of minerals travel up their body and into their aorta, creating micro-tear. Blood pressure will expand the tear and they will die from heavy internal hermitage.
If you are water user, create a micro-bubble of void (similarly to the earth technique), akin to the bubble of air in veins. Again, insta-kill.
If you are fire user, learn electricity. Afterwards, that would allow you to either read thoughts of others by scanning their hippocampus for flow of electricity. Or, alternatively, you can simply stop the flow of electricity in their brain/heart, giving you insta-kill once again.
With knowledge of science and anatomy you can use even minuscule extent of pseudo-telekinesis to completely kill any human being.
@@kingol4801That isn’t really a good explanation for soft magic so much as Dr. Manhattan being Dr. Manhattan, the guy whose entire point is being so godlike he’s completely alienated from humanity. If anything his power is _even softer_ magic, the kind of power subject more to tone, characterization, and the writers’ whims than hard rules.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some stories go full “what if we took the tropes and powers of this story or genre to their logical conclusion”, and those include some of my favorites. They often have incredible worldbuilding, rewarding the reader for investing in the world and story alike without sacrificing character development or tone.
I just fail to see how Avatar would benefit from this approach, because “everyone has an instant kill button on anyone else in their range” just doesn’t lead to the kinds of story Avatar wants to tell or the tone it’s trying to establish. (Maybe a story like Avatar but darker and with more hard and fast checks on using elemental powers to cause pulmonary embolisms, perhaps, but not Avatar itself.)
The one thing I’ll say is that liquid nitrogen/oxygen bending or dry ice bending would be nice for an airbender in the next Avatar series after Korra, but that’s more a matter of airbending not having a variant yet and two other elements getting their own states of matter variants (ice/steambending and lavabending).
@@Tortferngatr Which is exactly the point.
Author tried to depict war… without the actual meaning behind what it is to be war.
And yes, people are not comfortable with what actual war is like. WW2 and death camps told us as much.
So, yes, attempt of the Avatar’s author to just…. “go go, child soldiers, fight war with powers that should inflict extreme pain and mutilation”….. AND making it kid-friendly is just asinine.
It is akin to trying to write an erotic novel and keep it family-friendly. Does not compute
*B flat on a saxophone accompanied by a short clip of an old man with a long beard wearing a pointy hat making a sudden movement*
Electroflame 618 got me every time
Your damn epic sax Gandalf got me every freaking time! Hahaha! And well done on the video, never even heard of you before now and, I must admit it was well made. You've just earned yourself a sub.
It's interesting that you didn't touch on the Mistborn magic system despite having it in the title and discussing Brandon Sanderson's magic rules. Especially considering that Mistborn has one of the hardest magic systems out of everything you mentioned.
The Ultimate Gamer no flashy grafix
lern utube noob
Can you tell me about it since he didn't? I don't know anything about it.
S-wo Mistborn's magic is based around metal. It's called Allomancy and the users Allomancers. An Allomancer must ingest metal into their body usually with water or an alcoholic solution. Once ingested one "burns" the metal, that's the term used. "Burning" metal will allow you to access the power in this metal that exists in the world. The powers are varied depending on the alloy. Mental abilities, physical abilities etc. And the amount of time for using that power depends on the amount of metal ingested. And different alloys take more time to burn than others. Tin for example is an alloy that enhances all five senses all at once, which is both useful and overwhelming for the user all at once, one has to learn to block out all other senses and focus on the one you want. And Tin is one of the longest burning metals, If I remember correctly it can be hours before burning out, while some other metals can take minutes. One of my two favorite mental metals are zinc and brass. Zinc will enflame a persons emotions, while brass will calm or sooth a person's emotions. Two interesting metals are Iron and Steel. These powers act almost like magnetism or telekinesis. When burning steel you can push on nearby sources of metal from your center of balance, you cannot manipulate it in any direction it can only be pushed away and Iron does the reverse pulling things toward you. But the best part is it will depend on your weight and the weight of what your pushing or pulling. If what your pushing is lighter it will be pushed, if your lighter you will be pushed, and if your weight is the same you both get pushed. It's a very logical and well made system.
It should be noted that the Allomancy laid out by Jedidiah is one of THREE magic systems detailed in the books, the others being Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, and the differences between them relate to the overarching cosmic conflict that runs through the series. Only one viewpoint character in the first trilogy (the only Sanderson books I've read) is a Feruchemist, though, compared to a variety of Allomancers, and it's only in book 3 that the leads start to get their heads around Hemalurgy.
Also, steel- and iron-based Allomancy don't seem to actually be consistent with Newtonian physics. They just kinda pretend to be.
IZEASGT I figured since the person didn't know about the magic of Mistborn that the main one Allomancy was the only one worth bringing up until that person read it.
Another great magic system you didn't mention is Hunter x Hunter's Nen System. It's really complex but it's really well put together and gives its own spin on the concept of life energy/aura.
@@andreherbst9057 To me it feels like the perfect magic system since any superpower can be explained with it, for example Spiderman's web shooting could be a mix of conjuration and manipulation, superman's laser beams could be conjuration or transmutation as well as emission, Naruto's rasengan emission and transmutation maybe even some enhancement. Brilliant
Yeah, I love Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles, and the Sympathy magic in it is a perfect example of a hard magic system. The laws, limitations, and consequences of sympathy (and to a lesser extent, Naming) makes the actions of Kvothe much more believable. And, of course, much more entertaining.
I found it especially interesting when I started learning about thermodynamics a while after I read the books. It's amazing how well Rothfuss's magic system lines up with the rules of our own world. (I might be a little be wrong here because I read the books way earlier than I learned about thermodynamics)
RIP doors of stone.
Check out critical role, he makes several guest appearances and is very influential in the character arcs of some members.
Yeah he does his systems and lore well.
Too bad the MC and many other characters are trash.
Sympathy is probably my favorite magic system outside of the 3 mentioned in this video. I love the idea of channeling energy sources, and just hope that someday we get that third book!
I like how magic is written into GOT. Almost like it is a dying art, even a myth to some. I like how magic accompanies certain plots but isn't the defining factor of the series.
And then in the series they go “we got a budget, let’s do some magic’n’shit”.
i dare you to explain RWBY magic system without getting pelted by their toxic fandom
Yeah. Unfortunately the OG creator died before season 3 was even completed and from their the lore and character development went down the drain.
@@renaakatsuki9960 really hope that in v8 they get back on track. im optimistic.
@@sadnessofwildgoats Lol. My hope died a while ago, especially with all the scandals Rooster Teeth has been having. The only thing that can save RWBY is a reboot starting from season 3 with different creators and all the people who knew what Monty wanted on board helping.
@Wasabi Lover There are semblances with could be seen as power. The dust is like more along the line of potion and 1ups.Then you have the gods and there power and a cursed woman with her power. No witches
Magic was initially gifted to the first Humans by the Brothers.
Semblances are a literal 'semblance' of Magic, but now tied to an individual's nature without the versatility, scope and power of Magic.
Dust is the magical remains of the First Humans after the God of Darkness wiped them out. It is magic fossil fuel.
"Now, we have to thank our lord and savior of hard magic systems, Brandon Sanderson." Love that.
I don't know what to say; my eyes weren't nuked with ads, no filibustering to hit time limits and a genuinely well-thought out and funny (GANDALF) script that outlines and summarizes some pretty good ideas. Thanks for making quality content, the internet needs more like this, keep on keeping on.
A thing similar to the "hard magic system" that I've always liked, is the "Obeisance" / "Renumeration" system in "Darker than Black". (契約対価 [Keiyaku Taika] in Japanese, literally meaning "contract compensation"). The way it works in the anime series, is that characters known as "Contractors" have abilities of varying strengths, and, after using their abilities, they must pay some kind of debt for the powers they've used, the severity often in direct proportion to their ability. For some it may be excessive drinking, others have to spill their own or someone else's blood, some grow older, some fall asleep, some must fold origami, etc. Contractors who don't perform their Renumerations die, so while it isn't strictly magic, it's a pretty good example of the systems you are mentioning.
I do think that there are ups and downs to either system. If there are too many limits, it can hinder storytelling, and if it's too vague, it can seem like a get-out-of-jail-free card in any tense situation. Even in the case of FMA they have to break their own imposed rules, but the way they do it comes off as exciting and unexpected, because the viewers have gotten used to the limits.
In the stories where soft magic is utilised, I often find that it is coupled with seeing the magic from the perspective of someone who wouldn't know what they were seeing. In this way, it makes total sense, and would break the narrative by a non-magician suddenly being really knowledgable about magic (without a reasonable backstory to explain why), or the narrator expounding about it, establishing rules, etc., when it should remain mysterious because of the PoV from which it's being observed. So, the various degrees of "solidity" of the magic systems in stories, tend to go hand-in-hand with whatever perspective the story is seen from I think.
I think the reason why the magic remains vague in LoTR and ASoIaF is due to the fact that the majority of characters don't know how to perform magic, and thus the reader should have the same ignorance, rather than being able to understand something that most of the characters don't, which could result in an unintentional narrative of the readers being far more knowledgable than the characters. Granted, that might be the outcome intended for some stories, but likely not for serious stories that are meant to surprise you (which tends to be most fantasy stories some reason), since it's usually a narrative mechanic employed more often in comedy.
As someone who's heavily interested in writing my own fantasy novel someday with its own world, this helped me a fair bit. While I've generally gotten through a good part of how the world looks, ideas for locations, races significant other things and partly the characters in the story as well as a plot, coming up with an interesting magic system is pretty rough and I've been unsure whether to go hard or soft. This video atleast gave me ideas on where to go for a hard one, and that I was perhaps focusing too much to make it cool and unique, but didn't think the cost and limitations of it.
That said, unsure whether it'd be hard or soft, so I'll be watching the other video too. Thanks a lot for making it! :D
For years I’ve had this really cool concept for a magic system that’s like there was this ancient civilization and to use magic you had to draw a word or letter in the air and say it out loud to cast a a spell and since the civilization has died out people have to learn spells from things carved on walls, or books. And then the dragon prince did the exact same flip flapping thing and now it seems like I’m being unoriginal☹️. whatever the dragon prince is cool.
Elantris by Brandon Sanderson is kinda similar I think, or throne of glass
i think its actually a common theme for the current civilization in a story to be trying to rediscover the secrets of a lost one. (probably inspired from how little historians know about ancient cultures that didnt have writing systems)
So id def say youre not seeming unoriginal at all and should keep your cool magic system concept!! your readers/viewers will thank you
Read Elantris also by Brandon Sanderson
I’ve been dealing with this for 20 years because ATLA came out when I was writing an elemental story. It’s why I’m on this video. Just do it.
I feel like hunter x hunter deserved a nod here as well, easily one of the best explained and most interesting magic systems I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing, with each individual persons access to a hastu affecting their personality and how they think, and keeping mystery and an unknown in fights, keeping people cautious. However, this is balanced by everyone using an identical hard magic system accept for their hatsu, with ten zetsu and Reno being the same for all characters. The different nen categories was great as well, as each category had strict limitations, but seemingly endless possibilities.
Joe Tozer thank you. I was searching for one to mention HxH .
Yes, HxH probably has the hardest magic system I know, and more importantly it's consistent.
100 percent agree
yeah, I really think that Hunter x Hunter has the most compelling magic system I've ever seen.
I really like how he makes it so the limitations are set by each individual person to make there powers stronger like (SPOILERS)
How Genthru has to tell people about his ability to activate it or Kirapika not being able to use chain jail on anyone but the members of the phantom troupe
In the Harry Potter universe, you don't actually need a wand. It just amplifies and helps focusing the spell.
So it's just a picky antenna
@@crackedemerald4930 more or less.
You don't need a wand IF you are skilled enough.
Otherwise magic still be magic but you are more likely to make stuff happen without meaning and without control (like Harry did a lot).
that one is actually both countered and supported in the stories.
some magics can easily be used without a wand, but other magics are impossible to use without one. but the same could be said about flying. you don't need a broomstick.... if you're Voldemort, his daughter, snape, or Quirrell.
@@BM-jy2gh not uncontrollable just tricky, like with ant akill. Harry and Neville are at a disadvantage because they have no guidance, but neither did hermione but she spent time to practice and gain competency with her talent.
Fullmetal alchemist
*slightly different than how I said it before*
FULLMETAL ALCEMIST
Full Mental Alcoholic
*FURMETARU ARCHEMISTO BUROTHERHOODU*
Joeru ahgahagahahaga
I see what you did there :)
@@praisethelordgriffith8338 I see you...
One of my favorite magic systems are from Warhammer fantasy: source of all magic is Chaos.
Basically then chaos energies goes from polar gates, it splits into 8 magic winds. Wizards can see or feel these winds and wave them to create spells.
But remmember that all magic comes from Chaos - destructive, corruptive and mutating force. Using all 8 winds leads to quick mutations, insanity and corruption. To use magic one must study in Aldorf's collages of magic and can only choose one of 8 winds. If you bend more then 1 wind - you get exposed to more pure form of chaos energies and turn to mutant.
On other hand High elves are capable to use all 8 winds since they know how to control magic energies in harmony becouse they have stronger minds then humans.
So in conclusion - warhammer fantasy magic have heavy price ( exapt if you are high elf ).
Well, with exceptions. The heiratic magic of the Nehekharans/Tomb Kings is more like the clerical magic in D&D and involves prayers and supplications to their gods, who then grant them magic. It's totally safe and reliable, but not as explosively powerful as some other forms (although if multiple priests are performing the same spell at the same time, it's so strong it's nearly unstoppable).
@@MrMViceroy Warhammer gods originates from Chaos and I'm not talking about the Ruinous Four
I really like the Nen system in Hunter x Hunter for that reason. The characters design their abilities themselves, but can only design so many or they forget how to use them properly. It becomes less about how powerful the characters are, and more about how unique powers can be used to take down even the toughest of enemies.
I had to pause the video when Gandalf was laughing!!!! Favorite thing all day.
Brent Lightfoot what was the song there, Tim? I like it.
Epic Sax Guy
Explain the magic in Dragon Ball!
superitgel it's weaker than ki your welcome
superitgel
Bullshit.
If you haven’t already, you should watch Hunter x Hunter (2011), that has one of the best hard magic systems out there.
The cool thing about hxh is that the characters make their own magic and it falls around soft magic ( like something healing gon and gon getting crazy power) and hard magic ( hisoka, gon, etc)
I was just going to say this, the nen system is one of the most fleshed out examples of hard magic.
George Bush it is both, I never thought about that
im so sad that he didnt dive into mistborn.
i just love that magic system so much.
i can literally picture them running around, jumping, dropping coins to flip up into the misty night sky...
i feel like this is such a great story for a movie.
is anyone on that?
id watch it no matter how good it would turn out!
Dang the descriptions in that book series are so good it feels like there was a movie
Fantastic series.
Puts it in an easy to understand format.
I am a teacher and I have a few students who have been working on their own stories and struggling with how to balance a magic system in it. I showed them these videos and it clicked for them and their stories are looking much more believable now.
Thanks.
This is one of my favourite comments. Thank you!
~ Tim
On a side note, It may amuse you, but whenever in the class we come across something that makes no sense everyone cries out. " A Wizard did it" =)
I LOVE the way the Avatar series works it. Logically progressing from earth to metal, fire to lightning, water to blood. I also like the way Natuto works. A mix of knowledge, talent, very hard work, theft, gifting, curse, heredity, and costly and sometimes gruesome personal sacrifice are all options, making for interesting differences in the many characters' paths to become stronger.
But without feeling too random, it's still pseudo structured, just with variability
Late comment, but one “cost” I always really liked was the way Druids are sometimes played in D&D. They can get very powerful abilities from nature, but to maintain it requires a strong connection to it, to the point they end up living like animals and can even get anxious/unwell in a city. I know not everyone plays druids that way, but it seemed pretty cool that in order to use a certain kind of magic, you need to become part of it yourself. I guess like characters who use holy magic must dedicate their lives to that particular god and live by the tenants. It’s a cool way to see how magic, and the cost of magic, can deeply transform who you are as a person.
Another great hard magic system is nen from 'hunter x hunter', I’d highly recommend it
Cormac Regan What makes HXH so great is that there are set rules for nen but what you can do within those rules is almost limitless. I think things might change somewhat though when they finally make it to the Dark Continent. You know, in a decade or so.
Nemesis M&M yeah can’t wait till then.
There is a rumor that says that Nen was originated in Dark Continent
Mauricio Nada I thought that was a general idea in the fandom cause of the scary ass monsters (I haven’t read the manga but I know the general plot so far but nothing specific and I want to keep it that way pretty please).
This was a great explanation of the differences between hard and soft magic systems, and it's really accessible. Great job!
No one really seemed to mentioned it here but one of the best things about the magic in the inheritance cycle isn't just the exhaustion system but also the way magic is channeled. In the books magic is channeled through the use of a language and trying to conjure up power. For example someone would channel their power and say "Fire" to conjure up fire. This allows a huge amount of variety in the way magic is used and also provides a direct reasoning and correlation between training and strength. Someone who is fluent in the language can do incredible things whereas someone who only knows a few words can only do simple things, even if they're the equally as strong. For me it's the best magic system that I've seen and is one of the largest parts of why the series is still my absolute favourite even to this day.
I used to talk about how I divided magic systems into the ones where magic couldn't be explained nor predicted and the ones where it could. The Inheritance Cycle was always my go-to on the latter , and I do believe it is one of the best magic systems created. It's really nice to know this is actually something that has been talked about! :)
Best system will always be Naruto hand signs for me, that shit looks awesome and is a brilliant idea... honestly my least favorite is words, but then again in Harry Potter that is solved nicely
Don't forget the whole "whatever it means to you" bit of Inheritance. If i said "fire" i could just make a small fire or i could make a fireball; i think it was Brom who said "One can say "water" and end up creating a piece of jewelry". I believe this allows for an even better effect for the reader, since they can see the logic behind a character's thoughts and spells, which makes a story much more immersive.
"Best system will always be Naruto hand signs for me, that shit looks awesome and is a brilliant idea" What about when the best ninja don't use hand-signs? The Rasengan, arguably the most well known jutsu from Naruto, doesn't use any handsigns. And some jutus that normally use loads of signs can be done with one if you're strong enough - like when Kakashi and Zabuza have to use loads of signs to do Water Dragon and yet the Second Hokage can do it with just one.
exodiathecoolone yeah it should be more consistent. I don’t mind bloodline stuff such as sharingan tho, that makes sense since it’s actually the eye that wields the power. Anyway I like the hand signs idea. It’s pretty unique. I also like scrolls with signs. In the end, there’s multiple tools to use magic and they’re visually impressive and yet not overly flashy. Naruto strikes a balance and is fresh compared to so many other magic systems which are basically just ‘say a sentance’ or ‘point glowy end at enemy’ or ‘Aaaaaaaahhh’.
so, this got me thinking, Eragon fits a hard magic system incredibly well. there are set rules that cannot be ignored. Doing a task with magic takes as much energy as doing the task by hand, if the spell has been cast, it cant be uncast untill the user is dead or the effect is complete, most peoples knowledge of magic is limited to their vocabulary of the magical language, unless its a skilled user that can do it without speech, even then for one to be a good magic user they have to understand the basics of what theyre trying to do. this was a cool thought expirament.
A few lines that I just ignore completely broke the system, and some other things are a bit odd but the system works otherwise.
Up vote for mentioning Sanderson. YUSSS!!
jerry harper I think the video would be lacking if he didn't mention him
im suprised naruto isn't in this video since every character whines about how they're "low on chakra" every 5 minutes of a fight
Waffle the Mighty You just basically summed up Naruto lol XD
The Naruto who fought The Nine Tails, an entire war, a God, and his best friend right afterwards all in a very short span of time in between would like to disagree with you. Also, holy shit, Kakashi spammed tf out of kamui. "I have less chakra reserves then Naruto" my ass
I would like this, but it's at 69 likes and I'm keeping it that way.
DatOneAndoos Bro real shit the shouldn't have had as much chakra as they did after the fight with Madara and Kaguya.
@@Crimzonbreaker I agree. The most Naruto and Sasuke could've done, realistically, is a basic brawl with a rasengan/chidori or two. This is all without considering stamina either, they should've been tired af after Kaguya. But hey, the final "best friend" fight was cool ig
Woah my 3 favorite fandoms in one thumbnail? I click.
Veeery helpful video by the way, thank you!
I experienced a magic system in the 70's (I've forgotten which) where limitations and costs were intertwined, so you could ignore a limitation if you paid a high enough cost. Things that would be easy to accomplish non magically if you were a little stronger, smarter, or luckier were cheap, the more unlikely an effect was (including levels of impossibility) the higher the cost. IIRC, you could exercise full godlike power for a minute then fall unressurtably dead. Higher skill could increase effect or reduce cost in predictable ways.
My magic system:
There are 3 classes of sorcerers based on how they source their magic:
1: jackal: jackals utilize magic or cursed items that they find or steal. Advantage is that its safe to use. Disadvantage is that they'll have to get creative. For example, they might find a painting that always results in house fires. Could use it as a kind of bomb. Finds a car that kills it's driver (little bastard spider). Implant it's parts into someone's equipment as a form of sabotage.
Mage: mages are like typical witches, using rituals, shrines, and chants. Advantage is that its powerful. Disadvantage is that it takes long and needs alot of ingredients depending on the ritual.
Worms: worns live in symbiosis with demonic and spiritual parasites which empower and influence them. Advantage: its instant to use. And has little limits. Disadvantage: the spitit in you has it's own agenda. Very dangerous.
There are also 3 classes based on how they use their power:
Ruffians: use magic to make their bodies stringer and more bulletproof. Advantage: makes you strong as fuck. Disadvantage: you can't do much other than punching things and flipping cars with your dick.
Hunter: hunters either use magical or cursed tools and weapons or channel their magic through normal tools and weapons. Advantage: get to use all kinds of guns, blades, ect. Very versatile. One of the very few ways long range magic can be used. Disadvantage: you're limited by the weapons you have. And you better not run out of ammo.
Wraith: wraiths are like wizards on meth. They typically throw balls of pure magic energy or convert that magic to other energies like electricity or gravity. Advantage: super powerful. Wraiths have other abilities. Like teleporting, healing others, and floating. Can make their own new abilities and uses then super aggressively. Disadvantage: VERY demanding to use. But other than that, no one knows.
Let me know what y'all think
I like the three types of sorcerers, especially the names. Seems realistic to the spread you'd get with magic laying around - people who use trinkets but don't know how to make/actually use it versus people who actually do.
As for the classes based on how they use their power, I'm wondering why someone can't use all three classes. I can use magic on my weapons, and bulk up my bod so I can use those weapons well, and then use a wraith spell if I need a last-ditch teleport out/magic grenade.
(Also. Lol. Love the mix of modern tech with magic in your example. Definitely know a couple guys that would be happy just to be able to go around flipping cars their dicks.)
This is great, I liked how you balanced the powers and limitation depending on how strong each one is, but the real challenge would be writing a cohesive story that takes advantage from it, well done and keep going :)
Give me your brains!!!!!!
im not into magic but its pretty original and would make a good fictional universe with a dark tone. im more into science fiction but replacing magic with sci fi nonsense would also make it work like instead of worms getting powers from symbiotic demons, they could get them from symbiotic aliens or something.
@@dr.sleaseball441 or symbiotic elements (even tho we have those on earth like electric eels lol)
I am a simple girl
I see Edward Elric and Alphonse on the thumbnail ,
And I click ;)
Wow...i found my soulmate 😂
Yes. Avatar is most definetly the example of good and holy writing. Damn, I need to re watch that show. This video was super helpful!
Warning, the ending is a complete ass pull.
This helped a lot! I’m making a power system right now that I call:
*’Spirituals’*
They are basically glowing orbs that are living in objects, plants, etc. that if they choose you, they can give you magic that varies in plenty of types.
(They don’t have mouths, so they speak telepathically)
The Spirituals aren’t all powerful. If they are mistreated, they leave you. If they are too tired, your magic temporarily stops. There are plenty more drawbacks to them.
“Is this good?”
This could work really great!
I think it sounds very, very good, you have a set of rules and limitations and it sounds very interesting. I don't know if you've already done so, but if not, I suggest you give more specifics as to what type of powers they get depending on the source of their spiritual or perhaps some other factor? Also I think the maybe there could be a better name but that's merely my own opinion. Overall it sounds like such a really, really great idea! I wish I could think of something that good for my own writing.
(Also btw, looking at your profile picture I take it that you're familiar with Genshin Impact? I'm just curious. Was it part of your inspiration for your magic system? I do see similarities from what information you've given about your own system. Like the way characters are kind of, bestowed their powers?)
I really like this idea, already hooked!
This is already a concept, there’s an anime called MAGI and magic comes from ether (life forces of nature) and MAGI is well liked by these forces of nature. The more well liked you are, the more power these “ethers” will grant you. Anime is for sure #1 place to get magic system inspirations
Sounds a lot like the spren from brandon sanderson's books
One of the most unique hard magic systems I've come across is the drafting system in the lightbringer series by Brent Weeks, really good read as is his first series the Night Angel trilogy.
Drafters are individuals with the ability to "solidify" different colors or shades of light into a substance called luxin, some drafters are only able to draft a single color (monochromes) while some can draft two three or even more (bichromes and polychromes). Each color of luxin has different properties, red luxin can be gelatinous or a tacky solid and is generally always flammable, green luxin is strong a springy, blue is very hard and brittle and can be made very sharp etc. A drafter must be able to see the color they are drafting, they can't draft in the dark or if there are no light sources that produce their color. A green drafter will be able to draw in and draft more if they are in a forest for example. To facilitate drafting if there are no direct sources of your color there are spectacles with colored lenses that drafters can wear to help them draft but these are fairly expensive. When one drafts the light "energy" or magic is drawn in through the eyes and is processed by the body in some way, the luxin is generated and can be held under the skin, the drafter then "excretes" the luxin, this can cause tearing of the skin and wounds if the drafter isn't careful or is inexperienced. Drafters are limited in how much drafting they can do, as a drafter draws in light and produces luxin it stains their irises, the coloration builds up until it completely fills the iris, if a drafter continues drafting they "break the halo" and the luxin spills over into the whites of their eyes and they begin to lose control of themselves as their "color" takes control of them, so a drafter approaching this point must either completely swear off drafting (very hard due to the mental effects that luxin and drafting has) or elect to be ritually killed to prevent them from turning. Each color has mental effects on it's user, red luxin fans emotions such as lust and rage, blue imparts a calculating clarity etc.
There is a lot more to it but you'll have to read the books for that, they are very good (although the second one does drag on a bit) but it is one of the most unique magic systems I have come across and is very well thought out and a fine example of a very hard magic system.
Dylan yep. That series definitely feels like the most brandon sanderson book not written brandon sanderson that I have read
I'm glad someone else mentioned the Lightbringer series. They're interesting books, and the magic system is very well designed. Also, that was a good explanation of how it works, in general.
Thanks, I figure the more people buying/reading his books the more time he will have to finish up the series lol, I hoped I didn't mess to much up it's been about a year since I read them, almost time for a re-reading I think, once I finish re-reading the Altered Carbon series
Try The Name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss
Anomandaris Andii yes! king killer chronicle has an amazing magic system.
(Commenting this at begining)
Eh. I don't dislike the new format, but I'm not a fan.
A big element of what makes your videos entertaining is your fun and energetic attitude, facials expressions, and overall presence.
(Written while watching)
Ok, I'm finding the Gandalf meme inserts enjoyingly funny.
That s why I like the magic system of My hero academia : it's soft enough to explore an infinity of ideas and powers. But each power and how you can get powers are really hard magic. Except One For All and All For One linked power, you receive one power at birth, you stick with it and each power has his own rules, his own weakness that they cant cross. So you can have an emphasis on how each character exploit their powers
I have 6 magic systems in my book
Elemental- depends on your connection with the moons, using wrong element can permanently demage you.
Book- spells and potions, you need practice, memory and intelligence
Tattoo- requires ink and covering your body, if you're bodies full you can't gain more and you can't get rid of it.
Genie- asigned at birth and you don't have much control over it, the people around you do.
Shape-shifting- either asigned at birt, which is adjusted to your body, or given to you which makes it painfull.
Portal magic- ancient magic that no one truly understands.
And why it work?
Always thought of this as the difference between wizards, witches, warlocks, magicians and sorcerers.
If you're looking for a good hard magic system, try Hunter x Hunter (2011). Past the first arc, the Nen system is introduced
That's not accurate because plenty of Nen users go fighting nonstop with little physical fatigue. Also every Nen user can use other categories of Nen applications, showing it isn't limited.
@@RubiixCat hey mark spoilers....
@@tostupidforname sorry
Nagato the Nutbuster you forget that using a Nen ability from a different category is extremely hard and can effect your mental state. Hisoka literally caused a man to have a mental breakdown because he was an enhancer using conjurer and manipulator abilities.
So yes, it is limited.
Nagato the Nutbuster also fatigue isn’t the only way to set limitations.
power: tap into various wavelengths
limit: requires intense focus and level head.
cost: effects outward is equal the inward strain
weakness: breaking focus of the magic user.
You made me go back and watch FMA again......I blame you for this
Edit: poor Nina........WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME??????
Screw it i'll join you
Finished it today for the second time😂
Ed...ward...
MrPandarilla NINAAAAAAA
My man
Thank you for this. I'm making a comic and this really helps me to build an interesting and stable story without making it seem everywhere. You've gained a sub!