Trope Talk: Magic
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- "I have a great idea," I said, not having a great idea. "I'll write up a script about magic and how its historical roots are responsible for its portrayal in modern media!"
"Yeah! That sounds easy!" I said, thinking it would be easy.
Soooooo let's talk about ALL OF MAGIC AND MAGIC SYSTEMS BECAUSE HA HA APPARENTLY I LIKE TO SUFFER WHEN I ASSIGN MYSELF THESE TOPICS
EXAMPLES USED: Beauty and the Beast (folklore), Princess and the Frog (folklore), East of the Sun West of the Moon (folklore), Sleeping Beauty (folklore), Snow White (folklore), Diamonds and Toads (folklore), Oresteia, Odyssey, Mahabharata, Perseus and the Medusa (mythology), Aladdin, Susanoo-No-Mikoto, the Tuatha Dé Danann, Stormbringer (Michael Moorcock), The Lord of the Rings, King Arthur, Koschei the Deathless, The Shakespeare Code (Doctor Who), Doctor Strange, Thor, Thor Ragnarok, Slayers, Harry Potter, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Percy Jackson, The Dresden Files, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
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There are no I’s in team, but there are five I’s in “I don’t care how big the room is, I cast fireball”
Use Lightning Bolt. Less things resist lightning than fire, and it has about the same amount of damage.
@@cardboardcrafter2482 Bold choice of words from someone in fireball distance
@@Ridiculous77 That is why I suggest another spell.
@Zachary Wolf There are loads of combat spells other than Fireball that have the same amount of damage potential without as much friendly fire. Also, how is gravity relevant to this?
*laughs in fire immunity*
"If it glows, its magic"
**looks at lightbulb**
Me: I knew it
Edison is pretty Wizard ( bringing it back)
The Wizard of Menlo Park
As an Electrician (yes, capitalized for my vanity) I can tell you that it is, in fact, magic.
And people get mad, very mad, when the magic doesn't flow.
@Un-broken and victorious lol
I should become an electric mage! *(Actually an electrician.)*
Interesting character: a dyslexic polytheistic priest and the mayhem he causes by calling on the wrong gods
I'd read that 🤣
This sounds really fricking interesting
@@Orichal264 examples praying to a fire god for rain or having asking a death god to cure wounds. I will leave the rest to your imagination.
@@marvelousmaker Asking a god of harvests to kill your enemies only to have them cut down with a scythe, like wheat would be a badass moment
@@marvelousmaker they can't be wounded if they're dead!
Harry: "Why don't wizards show themselves to the world?" Hagrid: "cause then everybody would be wanting magical solutions to their problems, wouldn't they?"
Que an entire seven books of witches and wizards literally not being able to accomplish anything without magic, ever.
Edit:it's worth noting that Hagrid would not be the most reliable of narrators, but its literally the closest anyone in the whole series comes to answering that "but why the secrecy" question.
that´s probably part of the reason why they don´t want everyone to use magical solutions too xd
Also not even being able to accomplish stuff WITH magic. The magical world in that series is absurdly incompetent and at first it seems intentional but then they restore the status quo at the end of the series so...it wasn't, i guess??
In the main plot, our heroes use magic to solve super-powered problems. Since magic is the only power of most of the characters, it's the only way.
In subplots, magic is used to solve mundane problems though.
@@SuperFlamethrower I'm pretty sure the power of _GUN_ would have worked against Voldmort once the last Horcrux was destroyed.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim Voldemort: bu-but fancy spell that kills anyone except the one guy who literally survived it when he was a baby and has part of my soul in him
magic as science: artificer, wizard
magic as divine: cleric, paladin, warlock
magic as talent: sorcerer
magic as force of nature: druid
I would put ranger in force of nature with the druid
magic as martial art: ninja, monk
@@pendragon0905 ...and Eldritch Knight fighter
Where would bards fall under?
@@Silverwind87
Magic as talent
“You didn’t get babies with +5 resistance to fire.”
Now I just wanna have a fairy that gives the baby a ton of physical boons, like _and after the blessing of grace, they were given _*_THE POWER TO BENCH PRESS HORSES._*
I would be that fairy.
Hahaha
THE POWER TO BENCH PRESS HORSES
no not anything else just horses
there actually are much lesser known fairytales like this, usually its children who are blessed later in life after accomplishing some great feat or accidentally capturing some magical being and setting them free under the magically compelled promise of a boon of some sort. I recall one of the many Grim's Fairytales had a young man who was unnaturally strong because he caught a gnome by his hat when he was little and the gnome granted him strength to lift 3 oxen in one hand as a deal to let him go.
but only horses, nothing else
"Some people go to school for architecture, some people go to school to summon eldritch horrors from the spaces between realities"
Weeell I guess I know what I'll take in college
Yeah, I was thinking of taking architecture too
Let's go to the Miskatonic University of Arkam. "Who needs sanity when you can summon an tentacular abomination that will consume the world ?"
Annabeth Chase and Nico di Angelo in college XD
@@monaelisa8713 wait, does NRU have a degree for summoning eldritch horrors from the spaces between reality?
@@frostyvoid827 I don't know, maybe it does
"You didn't get so many babies with +5 resistance to fire" Leo Valdez baybee
*Salutes*
Fire boy.
I'd say his resistance is like +100
Leo, my beloved
This comment pleases me :]
"Don't think too hard about the Harry Potter universe if you want to be able to still enjoy it"
Yup. Pretty much it.
Magic the switz army knife is bullshit
Yeah, JKR was definitely more focused on storytelling than world-building. They're great stories, but looking back I do wish the Wizarding World was a bit more defined
DRAW DAILY DxD Exactly what I wanted to say!
@@DRAWDAILYchannel yeah, but how do you define most thigs is badly done, for example why is a mage or a spell stronger than another? If it's just blood, Hermione should be pretty week, if it's knowledge, she would be way stronger than Harry. In the end it's just who the author chooses it to be. (I do think it's a good story, it's just not a solid magic system)
It's not just the magic either. Who the hell thought 17 and 29 were acceptable multipliers for money?
I feel the Full Metal Alchemist "law of equivalent exchange" is a pretty good way to ground magic in reality. If i want to create an explosion i have to use something with the capability to explode, if i want to bring someone back to life I have to use the very specific ingredients of a human and then create a black writhing mass of suffering and lose an arm and a leg and my entire brother.
*Don't bring people back to life*
Use the right ingredients at least.
Use the dragon balls
@@laurie1183 ah shit I used the left ingredients, that must be what went wrong.
@@WakkaMadeInYevon MatPat has a video on it ;)
It also helps that everyone except Ed and the others who've seen the "truth" need to have access to a fairly specific circle ontop of the law of equal exchange and all the education needed to KNOW how to do these things. Roy CAN in theory do basically everything Ed can, but he'd need to it there drawing a specific circle to do it, where as Ed can just clap his hands and make it happen. Hence why almost every other state alchemist has an artifact or tattoo of a circle with them and specializes in 1 specific thing and doing that 1 specific thing VERY well and forcing them to get extra creative with their chosen abilities. Ed is basically the only one who's that versatile. For most of the series, even Al, who's nearly as talented as Ed, doesn't use alchemy during fights too often, relying mostly on his new found super strength and invulnerability...drawing a circle mid combat to create a desired effect is just not feasible
Basically they did a good job of making Ed limited based off the rules of alchemy, minus the one he bends and simultaneously making everyone else even MORE limited and not making every alchemist vs alchemist fight devolve into chaos from 2 or more people making matter their bitches...all while still being consistent, and still making these varied characters seem useful/threatening.
3 year later I'm still laughing at the image of Anubis panicked at the idea of helping delivering a baby
I'm noticing that whenever Red portrays Anubis, she always makes or finds someone else who made him look like the Goodest of Good Bois, and I will never be able to unsee it
"This is not my job, this is the opposite of my job"
what about 5
I think Anubis would be so panicked. If he’s called to give birth, that image is hilarious.😅😄
Bruce, it's been 5 years, you still owe me 16$
i like how the bending in avatar doesn't feel like magic, like there's not specific spells it's just manipulation of your respective element. it's very loose and simple.
edit: holy shit, so many likes! thanks so much :)
In a way yeah but they also went very in depth to explain the origin of that mechanic, how humans were given power over it and how society was built up around it over thousands of years
@@Chaox56 Legend of Korra explains the spiritual aspect and show the fist avatar and first benders ganing it from the spirits. But you don't have to look that much, in Avatar the Last Airbender they say a Thousand times that the first benders, once the spirits gave them the power, learned from the animals how to use it. Waterbenders learned from Tui and La, two fishes that push and pull, Firebenders from the Dragons, Airbenders from the Flying Bisions and Earthbenders from that animal i forgot the name hahaha i think "toperas" in Portuguese but i don't remember the translation. Also sorry my english.
@@RA-hh7ji I actually watched a video that explains that. It said that though they could use the elements, bending only really came into a recognizable existence once they studied certain animals and learned from them.
What I liked the most about Avatar and Kora is that people who can't bend can manage to go up against a bender. I honestly hate hate it when magic wielders become a different class of people that can't be touched by anyone outside of that class. It feels like crappy writing.
@@RA-hh7ji Badgermoles
In France we litteraly have an sentence for the magic-ex-machina, it's "Ta gueule, c'est magique" wich means "STFU it's magic"
so yeah, NEVER do that trope
In English we have a Simpsons' a reference called " A wizard did it"
@@Americanbadashh
😂 So true.
@@Americanbadashh When asking how something works, the response I got was often "BFM" (By Fucking Magic)
It may go without saying that I'm the only one in my family who reads...
"It's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit" and "I can say 'Magic' faster than you can say 'Plot Hole'" are my two favorites.
This reply section just made my day😂😂😂
I personally love the Eragon rules for magic. Namely:
Casting a spell requires the same amount of energy as if you performed the same activity mundanely. If you just flick a switch or throw a rock, that's fine, but if you try & cover a fell or ravine in thick mist, it will physically tax you.
You can store energy in precious gemstones or rocks to draw upon later, allowing you to cast spells that would normally be too much for you by leeching off their stored power.
Once you commit to a spell, you stay committed to it for good. If you want to excavate the side of a mountain, the spell will continue to draw power from you until the desired effects are produced or you die from the stress/strain of such a powerful spell.
I feel like these rules make magic fairer: now some scrawny little magic prepubescent can't run up to a book & cast the most powerful spell in existence, it takes immense power & training to even think about that.
This also allows me to picture powerful spellcasters as really buff people decked out in magical bling & I wouldn't give that up for the *WORLD*.
you wouldn't give that up for...
ZA WARUDO ?
notably you can do things with magic you couldnt do mundanely. like blocking magic or cursing people. or its so much more efficient with a bit of creativity that its horrifying, like killing people by creating the force of a fingerpoke in their brain.
Yep magic used on the mundane basically just makes the task faster
And you can also leech energy off of other living things, though that info’s kept under lock and key because OH GOD SOMEONE WIPED OUT HALF OF SURDA TRYING TO BRING SOMEONE BACK TO LIFE SHIT oh and you basically throw magic into the void when you attempt to bring something back to life or view the future. So ha nope get rekt prophecies
This is exactly what the mana system is, a limited source of internal energy used to cast magic, and if it’s depleted you either can’t use magic again until it’s replenished, or become too exhausted to do anything without hurting yourself.
@Justin Yang that happens to every spell that you don’t have enough energy for if you don’t give yourself a condition to stop it.
"Waving your hands in the air like you just don't care about the laws of physics" one of the best ways I have heard to describe spells
I really liked kurzgesagt's definition of magic. In their gold apocalypse video, they said it is "a very special phenomenon, which allows us to modify physics"
My favorite definition is the one from the librarian because magic in itself is just a destructive force and you need to catalyse it in different ways to being able to modify physics (While in this show, magic is actually a bit more scientific)
a.k.a a miracle
King: **Sits on stone**
Stone: *_REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE_*
You called?
When was that?
@@samueltheblonde at around 4:20-ish it's when she describes magical Irish items.
Casual Latecomer *n o i c e*
Random Irish Stone:Oye Git Of Mi Bac Yu beg panzi!!!!
[Worry about magic in my book being bad intensifies]
In writing it never matters what you day just how you say it
It's kinda cheating, but look at the rules for magic in Mage: the ascension. especially in regards to if you want to throw in the "secret world" trick.
Hey do you want to tell me about your magic setup
Adrian Cerny just bind magic to creativity and or mental state that way readers think rules exist even if they don’t
@@agent_ocelot9390 ah, so like another "limb" of a sort. I dig that. Reminds me of the Codex Alera series by Jim Butcher, but more internal than external. I think you definitely have room to play around without it being a mess
I just finished a series of books (the Winternight trilogy) that defined magic as “forgetting that things aren’t how you want them to be”. The best example off the top of my head would be “forgetting that the candles weren’t on fire” or “forgetting that anyone could see [character]”. It was a fascinating way of approaching the subject.
Also, it hilariously reminds me of Douglas Adams’s definition of flying which was “the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing”.
Wouldn't that mean that you could be basically omnipotent if you believed you were?
So all master wizards are ADD as fuck?
as someone with ADD, I would love to live there
If you don't look down the ravine it can't stop you. Just keep walking.
I was thinking more about the SEP fields, also from the Hitchhikers Guide
(SEP = someone elses problem, things just slip your awareness)
@@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566 Haven't read that series, but I imagine the wider the implications of a spell, the harder it is to "forget" your way into casting it. It's easy to forget you left the lights on back home, it's hard to forget that you aren't a millionaire. You've got "im not super rich" internalized into your identity, and reality reminds you of that reality at every turn. I'm guessing someone theoretically could forget they're not omniscient, but they'd have to be a pretty delusional and megalomaniacal person, and even for them it'd might be pretty hard to sustain. Afterall you could pretty easily forget that you're omnipotent if you've been mortal your whole life and you suddenly see a car flying at you.
"Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead, and the third one is cursed to only speak in spoonerisms." Truer words have never been spoken.
Spruer words have never been token!
Fairy Tail could basically be renamed magic-ex-machina. Every story arc basically ends the same:
Bad guy: "BWAHAHA YOU CAN'T BEAT ME SO JUST TO RUB IT IN HERE'S ME HURTING YOUR FRIEND!"
Natsu: "Friendship"
Bad guy: "Nani!?"
Natsu: "FIRE DRAGON FRIENDSHIP FIST!"
Bad guy: "I am beaten! Though not dead. Cause I will literally be a good guy like....next week...."
YESSSSSSSSS
@@junkuribo5150 yep
Except for probably the people they actually killed...unless time travel
That's also with dragon ball. But aparently fairy tail is bad and dragon ball is good. HOW THEY BOTH DO THE SAME THING EVERY ARC! WHY IS ONE GOOD AND ONE BAD?!
@@zenzonerzz4789 They're both kinda low-quality when it comes to actual plotline and setting. However, Dragonball has the power of nostalgia on it's side, so almost nobody gives them shit for selling the same plotline every few years.
4:23 "...and a stone that would yell when the king sat on it."
I'm sorry, *_w h a t ._*
Yes. Because Ireland.
It's like "because Japan", but instead of moe-fying everything, they have screaming rocks and Hulks that Hulk more than the character literally called The Hulk can actually Hulk.
@@thomasthecoolkid7228 Also a naked woman with a spear that you need to cut out of whoever gets stabbed with it.
scream chair but rock. hope that helps.
Was actually the first known record of talking digital scales "GET OFF, HIGHNESS!!! YOU WEIGH OVER 150KG CUT BACK ON THE FEASTINGS!!!"
It was enchanted with that highest form of sorcery, the whoopee cushion.
I feel like urban fanatsy is "easiest" when magic somehow "enters" the world at a set point in history. Like if everything is historically as in reality, but at some point (probably somewhere around where you want to set your story) a "convergence" happens and suddenly magic is real. Or something.
I know Shadowrun did that exact thing.
@@GamersHolyArmy just drop the cyberpunk bits and you got a bitchin fantasy
As somehow that hates the the idea of Urban fantasy, I'm okay with recent magic. Hell if the amount of new blood is super rare, you could get away even with century of the society being hidden, so long as leader the certain nations they inhabit are given during inductions a quick rundown of a few of the economical and political dynasties, and those new bloods will have simple "luck" without training.
Or if you can't write a story contains the merger of Merlin Mobile with Orb Telecom, just stick to sword and sorcery
I think the heartstriker/DFZ series does this well as it used to exist but only recently came back. So they get the best of both worlds, incredibly ancient creatures with tons of knowledge and the world reacting to magic.
If you're writing a story where the magic doesn't end up hidden and instead integrates into society then yeah making it recent side steps any of those potential problems. You could even say something like My Hero Academia is urban fantasy under those stipulations, it's basically a slightly future modern world where superpowers suddenly developed out of nowhere. But if you want the secret world to stay hidden then I think having it be modern is even more implausible considering the information age, keeping something secret has literally never been harder than it is right now.
When looking for a good example of the “hidden magical world”, my go to example of this would be the Percy Jackson series. It addresses many of the issues that Red brought up throughout the series. Possible Spoilers!
How do the mundane people not notice the magical hidden world? In this series; there is a force know as The Mist, which Essentially veils the truth of the world from most mortals, except for the rare few that have the ability to see through The Mist. The Mist alters the way mortals think and understand a situation, such as seeing a metal bat in place of a glowing magic sword.
Why did the people of the magical world not try to prevent or fight in many of the atrocities such as wars? In this series, demigods DID participate in the conflicts. As seen throughout the series, demigods where involved in just about any armed conflict all the way back to Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. The whole reason for the pact made between the Big Three Gods (Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades) is because after World War II, the three gods realized that there children where so powerful that they could heavily affect any armed conflict that they become involved with.
In Indexverse,magic was simply cheat codes that required specific requirements to execute.
also , "how do the parents of magical kids not notice?", if their divine parent was particularly powerful or attached to the cute mortal, they probably revealed who they were because the baby is a ticking time bomb
Yeah I was thinking this too. The mist doesn’t hide anything, it distorts it. So it’s not like they don’t notice the weird ass things happening, they just understand it in a totally different way. And my favorite is the concept that the mist extends into the afterlife, you perceive it in a way you understand it to be.
I like to think of a good magic system as it's a gift. And like a gift for, say, music or art, you can't tell if a baby is any good at it until they try something.
@@iwantataco6371 This is actually shown in book 2, where the bully notices his "friends" change, but doesn't understand exactly what is happening.
Since spells are words and a few hand waves......
Farmer : DARN CROWS GO AWAAAAY!!!
*poof*
Farmer : oops...
If it works, who cares? :D
*Seagulls join in the fun*
If I wrote a story with magic, it would be similar to that. Anyone can do magic, but, let’s say you want to get rid of ticks. You use magic to get rid of them, so they turn into bears or another random animal. Like wild magic from D&D.
@Graham Oldfield
*Mysterious colors, unlike seen on Earth!*
@@honeybee4144 Oh shit!
Some words of wisdom I've heard "What magic cannot do is infinitely more interesting than what it can do."
That's a gloss on Sanderson's Second Law. I'm _very_ surprised that Sanderson's Laws of Magic were not discussed directly.
@@NemisCassander Especially when she brought up the problems with vague magic, since that’s addressed in the first law.
@@animeotaku307 what are the rules, I've never heard about this?
Limitation grounds concepts
@@airplanes_aren.t_real Sanderson’s laws of magic, which refer to making magic systems in storytelling. The first law is “the author’s ability to resolve conflicts in a satisfying way with magic is proportional to how well the reader understands how the magic works.”
"Not to keep taking pot-shots at Harry Potter but..."
Great books for entertainment value, but very flimsy under scrutiny. I'm into it. Carry on!
The fact that Ilvermony also covers Cuba implies that the Ilvermony school board has an official policy on Castro
@@aaronashley1811
They probably do and I bet its bad
@@my_girl_seraphine5294 As a Brazilian, it feels weird that Castelobruxo just means "witch castle". Like, that's such a bad name. And it's supposed to be for the whole South American subcontinent? Like, you have ANY idea how many languages are spoken here? Also, I doubt native americans will ever be addressed even though Castelobruxo seems located right in the middle of the amazon rainforest.
Why does Europe get three big magic schools (Hogwarts, Beuxbaton and Durmstrang --- normal Britain, fancy France and evil eastern europe, from the perpective of a bigoted UK woman) while the WHOLE CONTINENT OF AFRICA gets one?? (it's racism)
@@verinha0256
It makes me feel rage
@@verinha0256 I know these days it's fun to hate on jk rolling for whatever but I think that in this case it's laziness and not racism
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clarke
This is one of my favorite (and most used) quotes.
and I've got my own quote
"Magic understood well enough is indistinguishable form science"
my personal favorite variant: "any technology, regardless of how primitive, is magic to those that don't understand it"
@@thmsbarber i love that one!
"Any sufficiently crude magic is indistinguishable from technology"
When using magic as a resurrection tool/Geat-Out-Of-Death-Free card, I personally like the FMA/Game of Thrones/ Pet Cemetery approach: "What comes out of the ground ain't what you put in."
Well, that worked until Jon Snow got resurrected.
@@facu40000 In the show. We'll see how it goes in the books.
@@betzalysgarcia1479 Fingers crossed
FMA was hardly a get out of death free card given what it took and all it did was make that abomination who wasn't their mother in any sense.
Shade Nox That’s exactly his point
Worldbuilding is hard. You know what's harder? Creating a magic system that is original, interesting, mysterious enough for plot, and works well with said world in general.
Mabel Meehan yeah, magic systems are harder
Mabel Meehan
Nothing is truely original any more but becuase of that you can take an easier route. Instead of being original, take something that already exists and alter it. To make something mysterious just describe the basics (this also prevents you from having dumps of information at a single time) and slowly add on to it. Or you can ditch the mysteriousness all together and just be honest with how everything works.
One piece
Try Name of the Wind.
Cameo Shadowness agreed. I'm trying to do this, but I really don't want to have it come across as a plagiarizing accident. Like we all say, it's hard to worldbuild.
Red: "Ancient tales didn't tend to have positive enchantments"
Achilles, Fionn mac Cumhaill, et al.: Allow us to introduce ourselves.
But seriously, there are *a lot* of overpowered heroes in mythology. But I guess in standard medieval and later folk tales, it became more common to just have the bad guys use it, since only pagans use magic and all our heroes should be good Christians, right?
Achilles more closely was portioned cause he was put in the river Styx so it wasn't really a person
The line blurs a bit since a lot of mythical heroes have some degree of divine lineage and/or patronage that is often considered part of the reason they could do these awesome feats
@@liamsteamwalsh8421He has a magic thumb that gives him all the world’s knowledge
“Basically prayer.” As a religious person, this had me howling. 🤣
Prayer has great power. Pray in the name of Jesus and you can perform great miracles but, Your can only exercise his authority if you know him.
@@gaelurquiz5755 Death has no power over Jesus.
@@justiceiria869 Studies have been done on this. Prayer do have power, medically speaking. People who are prayed for do tend to recover more often those who aren't (though that isn't universally true, it's more complicated than that). The interesting thing about the many studies done on this topic, is that when observed for the study, prayers to Muhammad were just as effective as prayers to Jesus. Or Vishnu for that matter.
Go ahead and look it up. Studies on the medical power of prayer and plentiful and publicly available. Or, hey. Do your own study. Publish the results. People always love to have more data.
Don't forget to cast a spell before eating dinner and go to temple to cast a mass spell
That makes sense, especially given that it’s irrespective of what faith they pray to. A positive mindset can stimulate the body’s physiological responses, and prayer allows a person to feel reassured in the benevolence of a deity, whether an external viewer thinks it’s misguided faith or not.
"How did they open the door?" Magic.
"How are they able to survive underwater for an hour?" Magic.
"Where are the character's par--" MAGIC!
Harry Potter much?
@@FinleyFawkes
Well, Harry's parents died through magic means.
"How about this thing that absolutely couldn't be magic?"
*_M A G I C_*
A wizard did it, dammit!
When is dad coming home with the milk- MAGIC!
"A spell is when you wave your hands and something noticeably happens that is not typically correlated with the waving of hands"
Me: (waves hands at a theremin) I am a magician!
Try waving your hands at someone's wallet, next.
No, theremins are obviously just magic (enchanted/cursed) objects that react to intrusion of personal space.
The magical version of “Behold, a man!”
@@jootsfuneral8316 this had me absolutely dying... then I looked up what a theremin is .... and that made it even better🤣😂🤣😂
If you can play a theremin *Well* you *are* a magician.
One common explanation I've seen for the "Weirdness Filter" is this: The magical and non-magical worlds used to co-exist but didn't get along. Eventually a mist/ veil / glamour is made to prevent the fighting, or the magical people moved to a different world.
The "lazy girls guide to magic" , I think, tries to do the urban fantasy thing where the magic has always been there.
I realise how the author solved this (maybe) is by 1 .making the magic not so powerful.
Like you literally can't get up and blast a fireball everywhere or something. And like using your magic willy nilly isn't going to work cause you'd get exhausted by the third or fourth "spell".
2 she made it specific/restrictive. In terms of how to perform the magic, like you have to learn to do complicated signs just to do basic stuff like "lay your bed" or something.
3. Magic isn't able to work so well or hand in hand with technology.
So the urban world she created is very similar to ours but with just a tweak here and there.
I now understand why creating an urban world that has always had magic, is very difficult.
Especially when I was looking all over the Internet for a book like that.
And when I was trying to imagine one in my head. I realised that you'd literally need to take every single thing into account because the magic would affect our history one way or another and in turn affect our idealogies, technologies, our understanding of physics and this would therefore result in a whole other universe that can definitely not be similar to the one we live in now. So as you said it's next to impossible. Since the whole point of urban fantasy is to make the setting like the current world we live in real life but with magic.
All the urban books had the magic hidden in one way or another or made it exist in some specific community or town that no one outside their town knows about and even if the general world knows, it's thought to be a myth etc..
@@k.5425 even though I don't know if cultivation can be counted as magic but more of a different system in many urban novels they just make the energy necessary for cultivation(reiki) appear out of nowhere through another world or other various reasons.
I've worked out a good reason ( I think, do not steal) for magic not being used in historical events. the magic system I'm writing is not all that powerful; it's mostly based in perception and manipulating things, but not on a large scale. It's mainly a "magic as talent" style leaning heavy on contacting spirits and like that.
Magic is dangerous, and natural selection has caused humans to instinctively avoid it.
In my opinion Percy Jackson handled the whole "magic in our real world but shhhh no one mention it" thing really well. For one thing they have the Mist, meaning it's not physically possible for the majority of the population to notice this. but what I really appreciate is that Rick never ignored the fact that half-blood's and the Gods should and would get involved in mortal conflicts. most wars are mentioned throughout the series as involving half-blood's, and the Greek Gods aren't entirely unpresent it's just that the way people view and worship them has changed
"A stone that would yell when the king sat on it."
Y tho
It was the king's fetish.
Y not tho?
So you can identify the true king. Obviously.
Irish Mythology is weird
They started by sticking the magic sword in it, but then some kid nicked it and lost it in a lake, so now his offspring just have to sit on the stone instead.
My friend came up with a pretty damn good definition, actually.
Magic: rules that break other rules.
Unpolitically Correct well, more like applied loopholes, but when you have ways to ignore the rules of, say, physics, it's usually pretty easy to weaponize that to make a fragile human organism stop functioning.
DynamicWorlds - This isn't far off from the etymology of the term "magic" which was used in Acient Greece to refer to unsanctioned or fradulent religious rites. So, in a sense, magic refers to paranormal forces that "break the rules" of the dominant religion. This definition still holds up in the modern world too. At least in the West, where we tend to call things magical when they can't be exained by natural forces (science) or God (sanctioned religions).
there are the normal rules, and then you have so many contradictions that the rules seem stupid cuz nothing follows them.......... like spelling rules in english
In the comic book Planetary, one character describes magic as being "Cheat codes for reality," and I've always really liked that description. :)
Unless magic is the rules, like in your average Brandon Sanderson book
I disagree on spells being “boring”, I actually like that so much- the concept of someone wiggling their fingers, then BOOM! Suddenly a mouse turns into a dog, or a rock appears, or a villain is trapped in a bubble
Personally, I’m a big fan of Brandon Sanderson’s approach to magic throughout his Cosmere. Every series or book having their own unique magic system with lots of interesting interactions with the world it’s set in, yet all of them are connected to each other in a very subtle way both on a world level and on a cosmic one.
I especially like how each unique magic system has a major part to play in both the local world building as well as the much subtler overall Cosmere world building. I love how much thought has clearly gone into it.
I prefer the magic system in chainsaw man
Basically a demon's strength is directly tied to how many people are afraid of it, so a demon of coffee isn't going to have as much power as a demon of bats
There are also contracts that can be done with willing demons which grants the user partial or full control of a demon's power in exchange for something (usually body parts, life expectancy or just more bodies to eat)
Wholeheartedly agree to that. One of the main reasons I love his books. He also has the important caveat that "the magic" can never be used to fix anything plotwise. If anything, the use of the ultimately unknown magic throws up even bigger cans of worms, that then need adressing. (As in mistborn 1 through 3.) So cool magic, but since the magic is available to many different people, the exploration and application of it will ultimately get you into bigger and deeper problems. So he applies a mix of the "magic as dangerous force of nature" with a bit of "magic as science" and a whole lot of "strict rules and limitations" on what it can and cannot do. Come to think of it, with the shard vessels, there's a little dash of "magic personified" in there, but ultimately rulebound.
brandon sanderson is great at hard magic systems
Yes, the Cosmere magic systems are brilliant! I need to see a trope talk that's just Red trying to explain all the ways Investiture works. Cue the magic crab choirs!
So here's an idea. What if magic circles aren't really a part of the spell or enchantment or whatever, but rather just something akin to a diagram showing you the proper placement of the actual spell ingredients? As in, they make the casting easier or more reliable by helping you place everything precisely where it needs to be for maximum effect?
So in essence drawing out the circle itself become the magical equivalent of showing you work in math, as opposed to doing it in your head. You can still get the right answer without writing out the equation, but showing your work makes it easier. I'm sure someone else has thought of this and/or used it in a story somewhere.
Though alot are like that some represent certain things, and therefore act as a catalyst for the magic, consecrating it into a specific spell, seal, or entity. Nice analysis Though.
Off the top of my head Slayers, FMA, and Bastard Magic Instructor made use of this. Slayers you could cast without the incantation but the spell was weaker, FMA you could do Alchemy without a circle but you were effectively doing all the math in your head. Basterd Magic Instructor the incantation functioned as more of a formula where adjusting the pronunciation would effect the spell but most just practiced the basic form as fast as possible.
@@souldragonlunar96 That's just the fancy schools that make you show your work to get credit for the entire assignment.
This is really good idea, it made me think of magic in the story I'm writing and realizing that the elves of my world basically can math themselves.
I always think of magic circles as similar to an electronic's circuit board
“If it glows, it’s magic”
Me Looking At My Phone At Night: HOLY SHOOT I KNEW IT!
Stolen
@@X-Ternal Point still stands.
@@geradosolusyon511 nope, loses its value along with its originality. The people copying the top comments for likes are boring
@@X-Ternal this is the top comment that uses this joke
@@AlphaFX-kv4ud it isn't. The top comment is one with a lightbulb
8:28
Red: "You wouldn't ask Isis for help with the Heart-Weighing Ceremony."
I find that statement funny because Isis, being the wife of Osiris, is sometimes depicted assisting in the Heart-Weighing Ceremony. I understand that the Heart-Weighing Ceremony is more in line with Osiris, but it's something interesting I learned.
I think the best way to define magic is "The apparent bending or breaking of the laws of physics from someone's perspective."
Alright I've thought of an elemental magic system.
4 elements?
Wack!
118! It's all or nothing baby!!!
**knock knock**
”Physics Police, open up!”
Story idea: mage can solve litterally anything, but must be sufficiently annoyed to tap into their powers. Their little sibling is the only one who can sufficiently annoy them. Insert buddy cop plotline.
INSTANT BOX OFFICE HIT. GAME OF THE YEAR. #1 BESTSELLER.
Please write this
God this is good
the problem is the little sibling can only annoy him into doing inconsequential things. piss him so much that brussel sprouts are disgusting and suddenly my hated vegetable becomes delicious.
If you can write this please do.
Science: How the world works
Magic: How to bend the world around you without breaking it.
science: *works*
magic: aight bet
Science: oh no we don’t have enough stuff to do stuff.
Magic: ha *waves hand and makes a nuke*
Science: *Exists and works*
Magic: Allow me to introduce myself
I think you people did not get science quite right.
You can still break reality with magic, you just have to deal with whatever godforsaken thing spawns as a result of you carelessly breaking reality
I've found that a good way to work around magic being absurdly overpowered is to have it draw on physical strength, kind of like the Inheritance Cycle. It just makes a lot more sense to me, and even adds a bit more scientific logic to it if you think of it as the magic user converting metabolic energy into other forms.
“If it’s in a fantasy world and isn’t a mushroom in a cave- it’s probably magic” truly amazing way of putting it 10/10
I’ve always wondered where a “superpower” crosses the line to “magic”
In my book, if there's no plausible way to explain it logically, then it may as well be magic.
@@realjoemavro loool honestly pretty much yeah, could potentially add to the world building too
Magic usually seems like an extension, while superpowers are more part of you. If a superhero wants to fly, they just fly. If a mage wants to fly, they cast magic to fly
I think there is no crossing line. Superpowers are basically magic
Wherever the writer wants to put the line. I think that generally magic refers to a certain thing (or a few different things) that varies from world to world but is consistent within that world (or at least as consistent as the world itself is), while superpowers can be anything you want with as much or as little explanation as you can be bothered to give.
for harry potter it seems to basically be a matter of "yeah, your kid's magic. now, don't tell anyone, or we'll wipe their memories, and then wipe yours for good measure."
Which brings up the question of what happens when other evidence of magic is found. Do wizards clean every hippogriff dungpile or half-eaten dragon snack? Do they hunt down every Muggle who sees them and anyone they told in the meantime before inserting plausible fake memories about what they came across and replacing any diary entries or whatever they made? What about things like Muggle-repelling charms, which give people a reason to go somewhere else but don't change the memory of someone who notices that people always remember an urgent appointment when they go there? What about Muggles without plausible urgent excuses, like most people on vacation? What about Muggles who notice the Magicians In Black before revealing their knowledge of magic? What stops them from running a counter-conspiracy to find evidence of magic and release it in a way wizards can't easily erase?
Masquerades are up there with FTL in the "don't question it if it's internally-consistent" category for me.
Who? Who is powerful enough that no magic user in history was ever able to win a rebellion? Who is smart enough and knowledgeable enough to weave millions of convincing lies that don't leave no trace? Most importantly, why is this being/organization doing it? You pretty much need divine intervention to justify such a world.
Not saying you can't have a good story in such a world, but world building better not be core point.
@@amirabudubai2279 And how are they able to continue this flawless work well beyond the end of their natural lifespan, or the length of their own wand? You'd need a bunch of helpers to make this work, and the larger your conspiracy, the more work you need to hide the conspiracy itself. I'm not sure divine intervention would be enough to hide a whole secret world this well...I mean, unless they're the kind that can just say "Alright, Muggles will never notice this" and have it happen no matter how implausible it is.
@@timothymclean It's Santa and his elves...
Remember that HP is in the 90s before the internet became a widespread thing
Re: resurrections as a concept: One of my all-time favorite book series addresses this REALLY well. It's called "Daughter of Smoke and Bone" by Laini Taylor, and basically, without giving anything away, resurrections are a thing that happen, but only under very specific circumstances. Like, you need a piece of the soul, within 3 days of the death, and they will be marked as resurrected. Also, magic is a form of energy that requires a sacrifice to use. Small for small things, major for big things. One particular thing of magic requires having all your teeth removed with pliers.
"Don't think too hard about the Harry Potter universe if you still want to enjoy it"
Man, That hits different now...
The catagories literally confine to DnD casters
Magic as Science: Wizard
Divine/demonic: Warlocks, Paladins, Clerics
Latent power: Sorcerers
@Redman 777
There's also the artificer (as science)
The druid and ranger (divine/demonic)
The monk and bard (latent power)
Fighters, rogues, and barbarians can be magical but they don't really conform to the standards of magic systems or the perception of magic systems.
@@samuelfaucett7861 Barbarians have divine magic (but limited to improving senses and self). Fighters and Rogues specifically utilize the wizard's points except being far more limited about it since they specialize in other areas.
OwlBreaker
Wizard: don’t worry guys I have a masters in divination
Fighter: yeah I took a crash course and watched a ten minute YT vid about that word so I think I know how this works
@@samuelfaucett7861 Druid/Ranger 100% falls into the "magic as a primordial force from the earth" trope, and not the whole divine/demonic shtick.
What's DnD?
"You don't get too many babies with a +5 resistance to fire"
But we can find out how many of them have fire resistance with some testing... where did I left my flamethrower?
HANS! DO YOU HAVE THIS GUYS FLAMENWEFER?
@@edwardteach3000 MRRMPH HUDDAH HURR!!!
*laughs in Demeter*
I've forgotten how well LOTR music fits with anything!
There is a really interesting book series called the Young Wizards series. The first one is called So You Want To Be A Wizard. Basically in those books, to become a wizard, you basically have to be picked for loving to read, and a wizard's manual appears to you in some way (the first one literally snags a character's hand while in a library). Then when they take a whole oath to protect life and the universe, they start to learn how to speak the language of everything, called the Speech. They have to be super careful about speaking it because everything in the universe understands it, but it can change things just by describing them differently. Also, using magic is really draining and they have to be careful of how and when they use it. Kind of like in life how when you're a kid, you have a ton of energy, but when you get older, you start to wear yourself out easier. It's one of the best magic systems that I've ever read.
Red is probably disenchanted that her surprisingly comfortable looking chair doesn't randomly yell when she sits on it like that magical stone that yelled when the king sat upon it in Irish mythology (though a randomly yelling chair would definitely make watching television or reading a book more non-sensical than Ilvermorny or the secret magical world of magic as represented by the Harry Potter series).
"secret magical world of magic"
I think you mean the secret magical world of magically secret magic.
Magically secret magical world of secret magically secret magic.
Shire music: exists
Me: relaxation intensifies
I cannot thank you enough for this comment! Now I can actually pay attention to the video instead of trying to figure out what the background music is!
Howard Shore is a great man.
*Relaxation intensifies*
An almost paradoxical statement that we need more of.
I have to wonder how the video is still monetized.
I thought it was shire music! Thank you for confirming, now I can actually focus lol
I've found a useful definition of magic that might interest you. It was created by Terry Pratchett, with this idea: if it works, but you have no clue how it works, it's magic. So for an average person a lightswitch or a remote are artifacts.
Then math truly is magic!
“Any technology is magic to those that don’t understand it” Florence Ambrose
This seems actually useful with soft magic systems... But not really for hard magic systems, I'd guess.
so... an F-45's missiles are magic missiles?
MAGIC SYSTEMS:
1. 6:08 - Magic As Science (ex: Doctor Who, Thor, Doctor Strange)
2. 7:23 - Magic As Divine Or Demonic (ex: Malleus Maleficarum, most Animes, Egyptians gods, maybe even Dungeons & Dragons?)
3. 8:37 - Magic As Rare Talent (ex: Harry Potter, X-Men, Percy Jackson)
4. 10:03 - Magic As A Force Of Nature (ex: Jim Butcher)
5. 11:03 - Magic As Ironclad Ruleset (ex: Avatar The Last Airbender, Fullmetal Alchemist)
I'm trying to decide if the Dragon Riders from Eragon fall under Ironclad ruleset or Rare Talent
A way i get around the whole "why did magic users not interfere in historical conflicts" thing is acknowledge the fact that magic users DID join in the conflicts, becoming part of the reason why they were so deadly, and the magic body that runs the magic community scrubbed any mention of it from the history books and swore both soldiers and governments into secrecy, usually bribing them or inducting them into the magic community.
I could have sworn I read a series somewhere, wherein the magic being used in historical conflicts WAS a thing, but the weirdness filter made it appear as something mundane and plausible, because humans couldn’t handle the reality of magic existing. Think like, if a wizard cast a spell that killed a bunch of people, the filter made it look like they’d just shot a bunch of people with a gun, instead of a magic spell - that kinda thing. I’d love to see more of THAT being used
@@phastinemoon You talking about Percy Jackson?
@@imnotapollo4188 No - that uses a weirdness filter that stops magic from being seen AT ALL, not really justifying it.
The other (admittedly oversimplified) explanation is to claim that magic users existed _on all sides_ of historical conflicts, resulting in a net change of zero.
I say this as a massive HP fan, but it's honestly kind of impressive how little sense the world makes. Almost every piece of the world central to the plot and conflict makes no sense when subjected to more than two minutes of scrutiny. Magic is capable of doing almost anything and its limitations are seemingly random. The magical school is fantastically dangerous and no remotely competent parent would send their child there. Quidditch makes no sense either as a sport or as an acceptable activity for children. The level of wonder that has to be generated to get people to suspend so much disbelief is frankly a testament to how good Rowling is at making a world immersive. How do you even make a world immersive tht doesn't make sense? I dunno, but she did it.
"The answer is, don't think about it." - Rick Sanchez
And then she started making it bad
Partly two reasons A) Aimed at children, so a whimsical world makes sense in a way B) It's clearly defined in the first book (but not film) that nearly 100% of mages and witches have a near complete lack of common sense and can't reason logically. The two main exceptions would be Dumbledore and Hermoine.. Hermonie.. Hermoijne... The main exception would be Dumbledore.
The magic school is fantstically dangerous for teachers not students. No student died at Hogwarts in the entire series except for the final battle [edit: except for Cedric Diggory] . Going to HW is worth it for the "defense against the dark arts" course alone. The wizarding world is literally crazy and being able to defend yourself is vital. Sure Harry and pals were repeatedly in danger, but that was due to extremely special circumstances and their own actions.
@@newperve then explain to me how a forest next to the school filled to the brim with deadly animals, ghosts and what not is not dangerous to students? How many children/teenagers do you know that wouldn't risk going in there for the fun of it or just to break the laughable rule of "don't go in there"? how is it not dangerous to have a gigantic, three headed dog in a room that can be easily accessed by a FIRST year? or having half a million flying spooky-cloth-kissies roam the school perimeters wating for an opportunity to suck away your soul (the equivalent of releasing hungry alligators around the school for your protection against school shooters). Or how about having four goddamn dragons just to have some teens fight against them (the same inhumane BS that makes panem so terrible). Or that totally childfriendly art of poisonmaking? yeah sure... its the teachers that are in danger
12:30 It now dawns on me that Star Wars handles this extremely well: the Force is its own brand of magic, which explicitly does its own thing when it wants to. But... it's also relatively low-powered, and very subtle.
(Also, Kreia is full of shit, I believe this with all my heart. People don't need to be prodded by the Force to be completely irredeemable assholes.)
Original Trilogy, yup, absolutely nailed it. Prequel Trilogy muddied the waters a litte with talking about midochlorians and never mentioning them again, but redeemed it with the way they tease the Sith power of cheating death being a great example of how a magic system with limits can be used to move the plot. The Sequel Trilogies though? Yikes. Suddenly you can heal people and teleport items and survive space explosions without explanation. And a not-a-force-ghost han solo. Good big budget action movies but bad star wars movies.
@@jacobmonti453 As I understand it, a person's midichlorian count does not entirely determine how strong with the Force they are, but only how naturally talented they are. For example, Obi-Wan Kenobi had a very *average* (for a Jedi) midichlorian count, yet he became one of the most skilled and powerful masters in the entire Order. Meanwhile, Anakin Skywalker had far less training (and started way too late), but because of his exceptionally high midichlorian count, he was able to learn and make use of advanced Force powers very easily.
However, there is a lower limit: if one's midichlorian count is too low, their connection to the Force will never be strong enough to "use it "for anything. This is why the majority of people in the Star Wars galaxy are muggles with no chance of becoming Jedi (or Sith).
IIRC, a lot of love charms that were found usually are contextualized negatively. The charms were less “make her have feelings for me uwu :3” and more “make her obsessed with me. Make her passion for myself burn her to the bone and flay her mind.” Additionally, a few of these charms were presumed written by women who had fallen for other women.
Best advice: Don't think too hard about the Harry Potter world if you still wanna enjoy it.
Great advice, but basically too late.
Better advice: accept that all works of art have flaws and learn to enjoy them anyway.
It's a lot like the Jedi in star wars - one person with a shotgun could totally take them all out, but there's enough fancy-shiny so that nobody has to think about it.
Fuzzy Dunlop That would be true - If shotguns existed in Star Wars. They don't. In Harry Potter? They do. And are far more effective than "magic."
blackhole000 Harry Potter magic can literally kill you in an instant, summon the fires of hell, keep you immortal or warp time. How the heck is a shotgun more effective?
I always felt the Dresden Files does a great job of addressing why the magical world isn’t known by the ordinary world: human psychology.
Of course the magical peeps aren’t going to be able to all keep the secret, but that doesn’t matter if humanity as a whole refuses to believe it. If a coroner finds a corpse drained completely of blood and with two neat little entry wounds in its throat, they aren’t going to immediately jump to “vampire,” and if they do, their superiors are going to suggest they take a few days off. If you run around screaming that your child was eaten by a demon from hell, everyone will assume you’ve gone nuts.
The main character is literally in the yellow pages under “wizard,” and most people think he’s either nuts or a charlatan. Humans as a whole have a surprisingly high tolerance for ignoring things we don’t want to believe. Some individuals might be different, but overall we really love to ignore anything that doesn’t agree with how we believe the world works.
As for history and wars and stuff, that’s only really a problem when one side has magic. If both sides have magic, then you just need to change the reason why wars happened. “It wasn’t REALLY because of secession, it was because the vampires didn’t want their primary food source to be drastically reduced” or something like that.
You can also always say “you know that historical figure that people at the time believed was magical? Yeah, he actually was!”
Regarding history, they could also "cancel out" if both sides have access to roughly the same level of magic, or magic could be on the "hard" end of the spectrum and so a shaman who only knows what's been passed down word of mouth within his tribe/clan/etc won't be able to compete with someone who comes from a magical society, hidden or otherwise, where magic is researched and documented.
world of darkness does this too, added with a very angry weirdness filter.
Specifically, vampire society keeps itself secret by making people too skeptical to believe in vampires while erasing as much hard evidence as they can (fixers are quite beloved in kindred society for their talent of tying up loose ends).
Mages, on the other hand have a weirdness filter. Basically, the laws of physics are based on human consensus, so gravity exists because most people believe it does. Mages are aware of this, and can thus bend those laws, but risk paradox (reality throwing a hissy fit) when they stretch it. Paradox is worse if "sleepers" (aka muggles, since mages have "awakened" to the truth) observe it, since their disbelieve causes magic to get weird.
If they can handwave it, like using magic to jump slightly farther or turning off invisibility and claiming they were there but you didn't notice, it's less of a problem.
@@alecchristiaen4856 There is also Werewolves, which hide themselves from humanity, and they don't let humans see them in their Crinos form (the werewolf form) otherwise it induces a madness called Delirium, which changes the memories to not include werewolves or erases the memories completely of the event. Also it's part of their law.
WoD is a great example of multiple types of Wainscot Societies and Masquerades.
wait, that's actually brilliant.
@@willieoelkers5568 *THICC* comment
Sorry
"A stone that would yell when the king sat in it"
... I've just _got_ to wonder why, because now I'm definitely going to search this up after I finish... 😂
I really like Brandon Sanderson’s magic systems because he uses it consistently through all his books, even if his books have entirely different magic systems, and sometimes doesn’t feel like magic. For instance in Mistborn vs Elantris vs the storm light archive. In each world magic is consistent and yet all have a definite source, and can trace back to people/unique deities and their actions.
Magic: A way of explaining, doing, or creating something by means that don't adhere to the laws of physics.
Magic is why we generally do things we think normally can't happen like that
(A fireball can exist, cast it with a hand without any micro technologie or anything is considered as impossible)
Firework are magic for a egyptian or amerindian of 1400 bc
Zéro gravity technologie are magic to us (yes we could understand or believe that it's technologies, but we can't explain it, we assume it's technologies but it's Magic
Ya even if we don’t know all the laws of physics, they still exist and define the world.
Point, for lord of the rings music.
It makes me so happy
They had a pretty popular portrayal of magic, indeed. Tolkien's one of my favorites, if not *the* favorite, for its authenticity.
@@bozoforce I don't recall the Wheel of Time having any music.
Half point, I kept getting distracted and having to run the video back to focus on what Red was saying.
I could not watch the video, I got carried away by nostalgia
8:38 I just wish to point out that D&D warlocks (in 5e, at least) absolutely fit into the previous model. They get their powers from an entity, albeit not a god, rather than from an innate source.
World of Darkness has an interesting take on The Secret World, which tbh varies from rulebook to rulebook. In essence, most magic entities have either a huge drawback if they are discovered or have a Weirdness Factor going on. Seeing a Werewolf in Crinos form (aka, the blatantly werewolf-y form) induces what's called Delirium, basically they'll go mad for a while and entirely forget from the sheer trauma of having seen a Crinos. Some other entities in the WoD are immune to Delirium, but all of those are also Magic themselves. Besides that, they are bound to the Litany, a code of honor with very severe consequences if broken that between other stuff has keeping their actual identity a secret.
Mages, on their side, are penalized by being seen by normals doing magic. They can absolutely go wild in places where there is no normals (to a point, as some magic can be considered "vulgar" and penalize you anyway unless you are in the Magic Planes), but if a normal sees them doing something blatantly impossible the Mage will be hit by the Paradox. And Paradox can go WILD, reality may outright attack you for it and leave you permanently disabled or/and mad and too far gone. Your smart Mage uses what's called "Coincidental Magic" (Magic that looks like it could realistically happen from an outsider's view) in most situations to avoid being hit by Paradox.
I'm not overly aware of how Vampires are penalized (ironic given Vampire: The Masquerade is the most popular rulebook but eh lol), but the Changeling's take is a healthy mix of the werewolves and the mages. Changelings get hurt by Banality, aka the belief magic doesn't exist, so showing their powers in humans' presence and getting that magic denied by a reality-loving normal can outright kill the magical part of their soul if it's bad enough, which is bad. Hell, just being besides a particularly unbelieving human can be toxic for a Changeling. They also have a Delirium-like entity, the Mists, which bewitches normals to keep them away and ignorant, besides have their own separate pockets of reality in which they can be themselves. They don't seclude themselves there because they need humans to feed their magic by inducing creativity and belief in them normals, besides needing them also to keep sane, so a degree of coexistence is necessary.
Then you have Wraiths who are essentially ghosts and are very limited in their ability to interact with the world as is, and Hunters which it's its own can of paranoid, madness-inducing, unclear origins worms. They hunt each other all the time, no way they are talking it with the world.
The whole being born in families of normals (which happens for all of the above sans Werewolves, as they have Kinfolk) is explained away with how it's outright impossible to be honest with your family about it and how hard reality hurts the supernatural if anything considered too far happens. Recently awakened mages and changelings, in particular, may need a lot of help from others to get through the initial phase, being always quickly assigned a mentor when discovered, and even so struggle to keep their families. A lot of them outright abandon their original households because the situation isn't, as you say, sustainable. Faking death is a classic between recently awakened mages, and some changeling subraces are known for their habit to leave their birth families behind (the Eshu, as their magic nature makes them wanderers, struggle if they have their chrysalis a bit too young).
So basically, how you make a Secret World work? By *reality* heavily penalizing the idiot who dares to say too much.
Vampires get killed by the other vampires if they reveal themselves in any way to humans
lol the “deity” magic actually seems very familiar to Power Rangers, where they are granted “magical” items to turn them into power rangers from a mystic being or a master
To a point, but there's only a handful that explicitly have a higher being abstract enough to be a "deity" grant the power. The majority are magitek, with others being essentially pure magic or pure tech.
Magiranger in a nutshell
@@willieoelkers5568 I think they retconned that in the comics. All Rangers draw from the Morphin Grid and the Morphin Grid is run by three deific type figures.
@@TanukiPunk All Rangers drawing from the Morphin Grid has always been canon, but *how* they draw from the Morphin Grid differs from series to series. Some use magic, some use tech, and some use a mixture of both. Also, it's not entirely known if the comics are canon or not.
Power Rangers are warlocks?
Gotta love that LOTR background music
I'm not gonna lie though as much as I love LOTR music, it also weirdly makes me emotional so this video was tough to sit through
When I used to play Lord of the Rings Online, my elf ranger owned a lute. I went online and taught myself which keys I needed to press to teach myself the opening theme from the Shire. Can you tell I'm an uber-nerd yet?
I was distracted by the music the whole time 😂
I was constantly expecting sweeping nature vistas with chibi Gandalf frolicking through them.
They taking the hobbits to Isengard, gard, gard, gard!
My personal favorite is a specific kind of magic as a talent, that being when anyone can gain it if it's activated or something along those lines.
9:08 i appreciate the refusal to use footage from the percy jackson movies
7:07 I see the Hela scene as not Hela wielding Mjölnir (she can't) but a payoff to an earlier line from Thor to Loki: "You know that nothing will stop Mjölnir as it returns to my hand, not even your face"
So in that scene, Hela isn't wielding Mjölnir, she's stopping it, which Thor didn't know was possible and establishes how strong she is and ignorant about her he is.
0:30 Heck the mushroom probably glows with magic too
It'll probably even recharge your batteries if you ate it.
@@Soumein *Super mushroom sound effect intensified*
Insert Arthur C Clarke’s Third Law explanation here
If you see a glowing mushroom in real life, do NOT eat it!
Odds ARE about 50/50
i wish she had Arcane at the time to show clips of viktor and jayce doing magic-science
I know this is old, but as someone trying to write, but can't absorb any writing advice in writing class. This series is a blessing.
Great advice I got from going to a Pixar writing and animation seminar a few years ago: You don't always need to explain why a thing works. Monsters Inc. says that screams=power in monster world? You accept it. It's not important in the overall save for the fact that laughs=more power later in the game, but you don't question the mechanics of either of these. Because in the large scale you're more concerned with Mike and Sully's relationship with each other and with Boo, whether or not Boo will get home, and if Randall's mysterious evil scheming will be stopped in time.
If they had spent time trying to explain why screams=power, it would have taken away from the actual meat of the plot. So sometimes, and especially with emotionally tied magic, you don't want to explain it, let alone need. Your characters can take the center stage and make a character centric piece. Or it can just be backdrop.
Worldbuilding is hard af and the reason Harry Potter works is because the secret of the Wizarding world is *unimportant* in the grand scheme. Most of the focus is on the wizard characters, with a few scenes of the Dursley's here and there.
Yes, you can question why muggles are so unaware of a magic world right in their backyard or why screams can be converted to power, but is it really that important to the core of the plot? Do you stop crying when Boo has to leave Sully just because the power thing doesn't make sense? Do you stop caring about Harry's struggle against the forces of evil because some muggles should be able to tell one another about their cousin who has a pet owl and a wand?
I could go on with further examples, but the point is, in storytelling not every detail needs to be explained. If you say "in this world, cheese is the currency" and move on, most readers will take it at face value. That's the *fun* of fiction. It *isn't* our world. It doesn't have to make perfect logical sense to us. And if you really want to explore the fallacies more deeply, write some fanfiction. But I'm more interested in Harry finding horcruxes for the moment.
...George Lucas should have attended that seminar before doing Episode 1.
But strange woman lying in bonds distributing swords is no basis for a system of gouvernement.
It could be though. Imagine the tale of some poor, illiterate fisherman who just wanted a trout, but gets handed a rusty longsword and told he's the king and has to govern a country and deal with all the complexities of politics, international relations, etc: "Wot? I'm a king now? Like wiv' a throne and a crown and ev'rything? Gor, blimy! Won't me ol' mum be surprised."
That will depend on whether it is an African or a European mythology ;)
What about the Holy Hand Grenade?
Putting misspelling aside, the idea of a strange woman lying on a mountain of government bonds distributing swords sounds exactly like how some governments used to run.
I'm about to show you the violence inherent in the system! Prepare to be repressed!
Red talks about stories where magic is a subset of science but one of my recent favorites basically does it the other way around. In that world the only real restrictions on magic were you need to be able to visualize what your spell will do, and you need to control enough energy to make it happen. The interesting part is when the main character decides that instead of just visualizing a flame sitting in his palm he can use his memories of his past life to concentrate hydrogen and oxygen together before igniting them thereby creating a larger flame more efficiently.
For five years this used to be my ringtone.😂 Gosh it is so hard to concentrate when the sound invokes feeling of overwhelming stress.
RUN! And pickup your phone already!🔥📣
I always define magic as "Science we do not yet understand."
"Magic is just science we don't understand yet, and that's fucking bro-magic. When we understand it, it'll be bro-science."
I define magic as some kind of 'power' or something that cannot be explained under the rules of our scientific frameworks.
Therefore magic can be supernatural and unscientific or be a natural force or even be explained by the science of the fictional universe but it cannot be explained, or frame as such, by the science of our universe as we know it since then it is science fiction and this actually what set them apart.
It maybe isn't the best definition but it is my best definition.
@@Pingwn so magic is like gravity, we know it's there, but we have next to no idea how or why it works, and what we do know seems kind of vague (at least from what I've heard)
@@Resters52_official well, we do have some theory of gravity - called general relatively - but the point was that science fiction try to drow speculative elements out of science, or at least at frame like it kinda is... But we meant to believes that this happens in a universe that works according to the same rules as ours.
Magic is different as even if it follow a very hard set of rules and is based on scientific principles it doesn't work according to the underlying principles of our on natural universe, it may include them but the magic arise from a new set of rules which do not exist in our natural universe.
but if it's something obviously science: like a time machine with a bunch of circuits and wires popping out of it, what then?
I’d love to hear your thoughts on White Wolf’s “Mage: The Ascension” magic system.
Basically it boils down to magic is enforcing your will on reality, but human perception of reality limits magic. Technology works because we’re convinced it works, but we’re also convinced you can’t throw fireballs down mainstreet. So while a mage could chuck the aforementioned flaming sphere down the length of a road, the instant a person whose perception of reality doesn’t include this as a possibility (I.e. someone who doesn’t know about magic and consensus reality) perceives this action, the mage who pitched the pyrokinetic fastball will be immediately and violently hit with universal backlash.
So different groups of mages are all fighting to define reality and therefore make their powers the most freely useable.
The Technocracy: The mages who are currently winning the reality war. Think a wand of lightning is a taser.
The Marauders: the insane mages who seem to ignore consensus reality and cause general mayhem.
The Council of Nine: the “protagonist” mage orders that have banded together to survive. They are comprised of;
-The Akashic Brotherhood (zen monks)
-The Celestial Choir (the Ur Religion)
-The Cult of Ecstasy (time travel stoners)
-The Dreamspeakers (tribal shamans)
-The Euthanatoi (probability manipulating assassins)
- The Order of Hermes (high magic wizards and alchemists)
- The Sons of Ether (crazy mad scientists too extreme for the technocracy)
- The Verbena (traditional witches and Wicca)
- The Virtual Adepts (space-warping VR Developers)
And finally, the Nephandi: Lovecraftian cultists of terrifying extrasolar entities.
I love Mage so goddamn much because it's such a solid way to go about solving the problems of a broad-scope magic system while still allowing for diversity of characters and abilities.
Seems really interesting, I would read that!
Germain Desloges it’s a tabletop RPG, so you do less reading and more storytelling
@@MarionetteDuAuguste Nice, might as well use this as inspiration for my GURPS campaign!
Ace_Wash proudly
Magic is the ability for my brain to hear that series of vibrations, precieve it as a melody, and release some chemicals that make me feel so relaxed and happy
This is all true. In the novel series I'm trying to make, I had a hell of a time trying to get the magic system to work in a way that matched the world I created. Once I established the rules and added that to how the characters did things, it became a hell of a lot easier, but it was still a massive migraine. 😵
No Brandon Sanderson? Sanderson's Laws of Magic and The Cosmere would've made good discussion on the writing of magic and its use in creating conflict.
Sprenspren Agreed! He's one of the Masters of World building his novels. His laws in particular practically solve the problems presented in the video.
Hear hear. Sanderson is a masterful author.
Sprenspren to be fair the three rules are the center point to like 99% of all magic discussions so it's nice to see a video that talks about the other aspects of magic in story telling
I was going to say basically the same thing. Not that he is the end all be all, but Sanderson is probably the best example of magic systems and worldbuilding that I can think of, and would have been a great example for many of the examples in this video.
I've lost respect for him after reading Steelheart (I think that it is the name). That book disappointed me. If he didn't write it and I'm an idiot, please forgive me.
Hm...
"Magic: Can't be done" is probably the best all-encompassing definition of magic that I've heard, ironically. I know you didn't mean it that way, but I'm serious. Magic, at least conceptually, is some feat that is achieved by a means that is unknown or impossible by the viewer's knowledge or experience. As they say, any technology sufficiently advanced would be perceived as magic. Anything could be magic if we have no idea how it was done.
And these are when the natives of magical society just do it without thinking about it. We use things like TV, computer, internet etc. and we think they are just part of everyday life. Now bring in a character who has never seen those things or even heard of them. How is that person going to describe the way we use these things?
"Magic is science that hasn't been explained yet"
That's actually something I thought about when world building for my D&D campaign. In the original draft, the gods were actually sapient machines, and their magic was a form of advanced technology, and the act of acting spells had a recognized, scientific explanation.
I'd probably add a minor aesthetic/informational clause; calling the Force magic makes sense, calling most clarketech magic is iffy, calling wormhole gates or laser guns magic is silly.
@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 A sufficiently advanced Magic is indistinguishable from Technology.
i love these videos. they get you to think about things you completely take for granted in new interesting ways
When you mentioned King Arthur and Excalibur my brain immedietly went to an old movie I don't remember the name of.
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
‘Speaking of getting the picture let’s talk about prophecies.’
I loved your segues in this video.
language nazi here: it's "segways". yes, the term is "derived" (the same as) name of that funny two-wheel thingie.
Language and grammar nazi here: It's segue. Which is either spanish or portuguese for "following/it follows", the "segway" is the weird biwheeled transportation device.
oh... okay. I apologize for incorrect correction and thank you for correcting me :)
Correception
Izzy - Profile picture thief. The nerve of some people.
You know what's an underutilised form of magic? Rune magic.
No fancy words or hand movements to make things happen because you want them to, your ass is inscribing runes onto whatever it needs to work, doing magic is a whole ritual that'll probably take at least a minute or two and if you want to do something bigger or more complex, it needs to literally be bigger or more complex. It's instantly a limiting factor to magic, either physically (just HOW complex or big can you really get?) and in terms of time (can't quick-roast an army if you need a bunch of time to inscribe what you need to do on the floor or what have you).
Fullmetal Alchemist is a world where the ONLY kind of magic is rune magic, but ironically we don't see that form of magic in action much - most of our main protagonists and antagonists circumvent this rule.
Pretentious Elizabeth have you read the webcomic "stay still stay silent"? That's how their magic works in the most part.
It pops up a *lot* in Naruto. Paper bombs are the most obvious, being a bit of paper with an explosive rune painted on it. Storage runes are pretty prevalent, too. It’s easier to carry a scroll with some runes on it than a backpack when you’re day job is throwing fireballs at dudes.
Mustang is so freakin' great.
Pretentious Elizabeth also has some interesting implications for more High Tech settings. If the only limiting Factor for a rune is its sice and accuracy you could build nukes the size of Aluminium Plates by using a CNC-machine or even smaller If you manufacture them Like Computer Chips.
Take a look at "The Death Gate Cycle". Basically the entire storyline is because of rune magic.
Hoo boy. Just watched this over again to take notes on my own writing. Forgot the Harry Potter aspects of this video, and Red warning us not to analyse Harry Potter too much if we want too enjoy it... Kinda ironic now since a lot of people are no longer enjoying it because of... certain incidences.
This video was actually pretty helpful. I'm writing a series that surrounds magic and there are different types that have different rules, and each type affects the user differently. Videos like this that explain the physics of it and how magic can reflect the theme of the story. This was very insightful, so thank you.
I've always liked the Discworld approach to magic. Sure, it exists, and is basically everywhere, but it's also really annoying for the most part. At the high end, Sourcerers and Wizards are basically walking nuclear bombs- there are places of the world with magical fallout and strange places of arcane enchantment happening wildly thanks to wizard wars. Witches tend to keep reality stitched together in their lands, focused more on the balance of nature and clipping forgotten old men's toenails. There's newfangled devices with demons in them you can use as a PDA or MP3 player, they're not very good. Magic is everywhere, but of you use it, things will go bad or the result is annoying.
YES another Terry Pratchett fan! Discworld is my favorite series!
I like how in the Discworld magic is basically comic book radiation but doesn't give anyone superpowers besides the gift of speech and just makes your life unpleasant.
I need to read that series... I've heard tons about it but I just haven't gotten around to it. So many books to read, so little time...
@@shadowpod13 there are about 45 in total - and they cover all kinds of themes and genres. At first I was confused about where to start, but except for the few books that are actually about the same characters at different points in their lives it really doesn't matter - think of any genre and theme and you'll probably find a discworld story that covers that.(apart from sci-fi and romantic drama, now that I am thinking about it - although there's lots of relationships and love going on, they usually aren't the main focus)
And, if I recall correctly, by the time you've learned enough magic to summon a naked succubus to your bedchambers, you're so old and have inhaled so many mercury fumes you can't remember why you'd want to do that in the first place.
Gonna add timestamps for people looking for something specific, cuz im like that.
00:01 Prelude (literally the start of the video, chill)
00:50 Potions (pick your poison)
02:00 Enchantments y Curses (trust me this is hilarious)
03:00 Prophecies
04:02 Magic Items
04:48 Spells
06:02 Magic Formats and Magic as Science
07:22 Magic as Divine/Demonic
08:36 Magic as Rare Talent
10:02 Magic as Force of Nature
11:03 Magic as Ironclad Rules
11:41 The Two Problems
15:08 So In Short
Thanks.😁
I am glad this is giving me inspiration.
Thank you for this video.
I hope you stay well.
I literally cannot get enough of these videos holy smokes. What an excellent channel full of great content.