Promises as a MAGIC SYSTEM?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Magic systems look pretty spectacular at the best of times, but it isn’t always that way. Sometimes the best magic comes from the simplest sources. Sometimes something as a small as a promise can change the very fabric of reality, if we, the writers, let it.
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One thing you didn't talk about that I think is worth discussion: When/if a broken promise is forgiven.
Oooh yeah that would have been great!
this remind me the scene where aragorn told the ghost that the oath has been fullfilled and they part their ways after that
The Stormlight Archive does get into that a bit in the later books, and it's definitely an interesting facet of the magic!
Could trust be restored? I find it can be, not often, not easily, but it is possible.
In Greek mythology there is the oath between Jason of Argonaut fame and his wife the Sorceress Medea. Jason won favor from Hera early on in his life by acting selflessly, but then lost it when he betrayed his oaths of marriage to Medea for his own selfish desires, and because Hera is the Goddess of Marriage and Family (as well as constantly the victim of cheating by her own unfaithful husband) of course she would be ticked off when her champion breaks his wedding vows.
Jason tried to call on the gods to get back at Medea but none of them are willing to give him the time of day because he broke his oath and eventually dies as his boat, the one thing he was famous for collapses on him.
Heard about Jason's betrayal thanks to RUclipsrs Overly Sarcastic Productions
You should check them out, they're funny.
@@strandedgeek Yes I watch them regularly
There's more oaths in Greek mythology then Zeus Jr's.
You left out the part where Medea kills their children, part in revenge part to prevent Jason selling them into slavery, and the gods all sided with her
You forgot how Medea was a psychopath pretty much and wanted to go to extreme lengths for all wedding vows. She killed her own brother and chopped his body into pieces and dropped then one by one in the sea so when escaping with Jason, the enemy would stop and collect the pieces of the dead body. Medea was also extremely jealous and did extreme things.
In the Dresden files, broken promises hurt a wizards ability to use magic and any of the supernatural creatures are actually harmed or held to the promises.
Only if they swear by their power/magic.
@@MWhaleK it’s kind of a running theme, especially with the level of power most of the things Harry is making deals with.
Bruh, The Dresden Files are awesome!
I'm reading Dead Beat now as I play thus video in the background. Gotta love thar duster wearing urban wizard 🤠.
@@bleachedout805 that and monster Hunter International are some of my favorite.
He even took in and refined the theme of repeated promises for the fey.
In the books, they straight up can't comprehend the idea of breaking their promises.
Once they're sworn, it's like an intrinsic fact of their existence. Not something they don't want to break, or are compelled not to break, they physically can't do it.
We even see in the later books, an incredibly powerful fairy creature that is corrupted and taken over in a sense by what might as well be an elder god, and when that influence tries to force it to go against it's oath, it basically goes into epileptic shock, it's body going haywire until it's mind effectively self destructs.
You gave me an idea: Memory as a magic system. Those that can learn or have a gift to memorize a moment perfectly can recreate that moment at their whim. It takes a toll on ones psyche, though, when they want to do the fantastic - they have to alter their own memories which risks driving the mage to madness.
Wrote a short story with a similar idea once. A character sacrificed her own memories to manifest them into reality, and had to relearn much knowledge. It ended with her losing her memories of a loved one to bring them back from the dead.
Another series by Brandon called mistborn has something a little like what you describe. Certain group of people are born with the ability to store memory in copper.
The Twice-Dead King series (a pair of Warhammer 40k novels) has a system kinda similar to that. The protagonist has the ability to enter a trance where he relives an old memory as if it were happening anew - no flaws in the memory, no shifts in emotional tone due to how his personality has changed over his extremely long life. He has no control over which memory it is, just goes into his trance and trusts the magi-tech to do its thing. Hours of memory will play out in seconds, and he will come back to the present having gained a piece of insight that is somehow crucial to solving his current problem. The cost that the memory will immediately start to fade like a dream, and within minutes he won't even know what it was he lost. The bigger a problem he needs solved, the more valuable the memory lost, usually. Some memories come as a total shock even to him, as after millennia of bitterness over being exiled, his perceptions are pretty skewed and perfect recall shatters some of his beliefs.
This sounds a lot like pre-science chemistry
Old times were wild
So like, A memory of a flood or an earthquake would manifest if they had previously experienced it. Or knowing the pain of torture or struggle of drowning, they can make enemies feel the same thing. I would like to imagine that if they are able to retain the memory of dying they could insta-kill anyone. That sorta thing?
In the TV show Once Upon a Time, literal Rumplestiltskin has the exact ability described in 9:07, albeit never explicitly stated. It's not the basis of all magic in the world, and also not nearly all he can do, but arguably his strongest power is that, whenever someone makes a deal with him, he is obliged to fulfill his part of the deal, and his powers will work wonders to ensure he can do so, and also that he can enforce the other person's part of said deal. That makes for a nearly omnipotent character, but who is shown to frequently be walking on eggshells to exploit other people's interests and work his way around magical laws, either innate or estabilished by other characters, whenever he proposes a deal, simply because his powers become very limited when no one promised him anything, especially early on.
Tolkien actually made words hold power in his mythos, with Oaths and Promises holding the most power of any word, being backed up by the creator-deity himself, Eru Illuvitar.
Amazing how far down this was...
Tolkien's magic phenomenally vague at times and very applicable to real life.
"Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the word that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spoke to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler's trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it."
I have to correct something about the Oathbreaker Paladin. Paladins draw from their own ideals, of course a god can be supplementary to their magic, but normally, all classes gain their powers from their own belief and code rather than JUST an outside source.
That said, an Oathbreaker does not gain power from turning away from their Oath, rather they gain power from the belief that what they swore was bad, or wrong or even Immoral. And an Oathbreaker thus inverts their powers, showing that, whatever or whoever they followed are the opposite of them now.
Thank you! This whole time I was thinking about how Paladins are portrayed as not gaining their power from a god, their power comes from their Oaths, their belief, and their conviction. The god they serve may favor them, but unlike Clerics and Warlocks who receive power from gods through worship and bargains/deals, they become favored by the god through their commitment to their Oaths and Tenets and through their actions of embodying those ideals.
IMO, oathbreakers are not what happens when a paladin simply rebels, they are what happens when a paladin loses themselves, and there's an important difference there.
Paladins indeed get their powers from their oath, but their oath doesn't need to be good or moral, take conquest and vengeance as possible examples. An oath of the crown paladin will not become an oathbreaker if they find the king is evil and keep their oath as now the king's bloodlusty executor or if they swear vengeance on the king for the people he's slain. They will, however, lose their oath if they abandon the king and have no other regal authority to pledge allegiance to.
Paladins also draw upon charisma for their magic, unlike clerics, who draw upon wisdom. Wisdom is described to represent one's power of will, or in other words, one's ability to do something against their urges, their conciousness, the superego. Hence why many mind control spells ask for wisdom saving throws. Charisma is described as one's strength of personality, the strength of their innermost urges, ego, the true self. Therefore, a paladin shouldn't be able to get power from unwillingly fulfilling their oath, they get power from *being* their oath.
So when a paladin loses their devotion, and from now on it's mostly a headcanon on my part, their passion starts to fade, that flame which ignited their soul is dying, and should they not find a new oath, they become suscepitible to becoming an oathbreaker, and as their soul grows gray and cold, they align themselves with the lifeless, passionless side of magic, almost becoming one with the undead, and even becoming one if they die in that state (see Death Knight in the Monster Manual), being then forced to fulfill their original oath in order to retrieve their personality and leave undeath.
Except the Oathbreakers also explicitly happen when you simply make a mistake and unintentionally break the tenets of your Oath
Wow.
Another Video about Power-Systems not mentioning the arguably Best ever: Nen from HxH.
No matter how many say it's the literally best ever, it's barely mentioned in videos like this here.
@@loturzelrestaurant That's in part because... it isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I love HxH and Nen is fun, but it is a bit generic at times, a bit undefined when it actually comes to application and has some rather arbitrary rules.
Simply put, the techniques detailed are more used for convenience at times than properly extended, actual individual powers are lacking explanation most of the time (This is in part because of the fact most of the story isn't told and likely will never be)
and well, it feels like at times we can replace Nen 1 to 1 with Ki from Dragonball and it would work just fine both as an explanation for powers and reason for our protagonists to have training arcs.
I think the beauty of it really lies in the fact that HxH makes things feel more concrete than they actually are. Every fight still carries a seriousness even when the stakes are not clear and the MCs can still lose any fight and have a chance of taking reprocussions.
I've been waiting for this topic! Something about power in utter conviction is really fascinating, and my favorite example is the oath of Fëanor from Tolkien's legendarium. There are other examples of oaths taken in his stories, but this one is very potent:
The Lucifer figure of Tolkien's work, Melkor, lusts enviously over three gems of immense beauty crafted by the elf Fëanor named 'Silmarils' that reflect the holy light of two magnificent trees that lit the world from within them. Fëanor covets them equally and rejects Melkor's advances of friendship when he mentions the Silmarils. Furious, Melkor seeks out an eldritch spider-like demon named Ungoliant and bribes her to help destroy the light of the two trees. He pierces their trunks so she can drink their sap.
The darkening interrupts a festival. In the confusion, Melkor slays the elven king of the Noldor Finwë on their way to plunder Fëanor's vault. No one realizes all that has happened until Melkor and Ungoliant have fled. The Valar, deific angels that allowed the elves to live among them, ask Fëanor for his Silmarils once they're recovered as they're now the only source of light of the two trees left in the world.
Insulted that the Valar would request such a thing and incensed at the treachery of Melkor (who is also a Valar!), Fëanor calls the hosts of the Noldor to chase Melkor; Then he swears a terrible oath. He swears by the name of God, Eru Ilúvatar. He swears on the chief of the Valar and his wife as witness, on the land itself, that he would pursue the Silmarils and nothing would stand in his way. He swears to wage war against and kill any who stand in his way. He renames Melkor as 'Morgoth' the great enemy. His sons jump to his side and swear the same.
Fëanor's oath and his Silmarils become directly responsible for much of the strife not contrived by Morgoth after this point. He leads his host of Nolder to their coastline brethren Teleri, who upon refusing the Noldor their precious ships, fall victim to the first kinslaying of elves as Fëanor takes their boats by force. When his host lands in Beleriand (pre-modern Middle-Earth) they burn the boats. This forces the rest of the hosts of the Noldor to take the long northern passage Helcaraxë, 'the Grinding Ice'. While the rest of the Noldor are marching through *that*, Fëanor goes on a bloody warpath chasing Morgoth's Orcs all the way back to the dark lord's fortress. He outpaces everyone, eager to fight Morgoth himself; But a host of Balrog gets him alone. Fëanor is slain by Gothmog, captain of the Balrog. It's up to his sons to carry out the oath.
... The thing is, his sons all perish trying to fulfill the oath too. At the end of hundreds of years of war, blood, treachery, and woes, the two eldest sons manage to steal two of the gemstones. The holy light burns their hands, and they realize they're unworthy of even holding them due to their crimes; That in hindsight, breaking their oath and being swallowed by the Everlasting Darkness is the lesser evil. One throws himself into a chasm of fire, taking his Silmaril with him. The other casts his gem into the ocean and wanders the shoreline despondent.
Sorry, this is pretty long winded. But it's my favorite!
Fantastic job providing a lens on aspects of Stormlight that are, in my awareness, ignored in most discussions. There's such depth to Stormlight's world, and its realization in the text is superb. But it's very easy to get lost in the minutiae and the theorizing. So it's lovely to be reminded of the broader concepts that make Stormlight as emotionally engaging as it is.
This video gave me a sort of idea. What if whenever someone breaks a promise the person they made the promise to gains magical powers to make sure the promise is fulfilled and someone begins to try to do what you said of getting as many promises as possible but then does some misdeeds behind all those people's backs to make those giving them promises have break it. This causes them to amass an assortment of while incredibly varied, possibly very powerful magics.
What a cool idea! You should write about it!
-Benji, showrunner
You should input some exploit failsafe in there like you can’t promise to yourself and promises must be of some degree in value to keep(like saying I’ll give you a house rather than I’ll not eat your sandwhich)
@@jksupergamer Maybe the harder the oath, the stronger the powers
I feel like that would make cults the most powerful organisations in the world. Gain a following, have them swear to you they'll never die by your hand (That way it's a realistic, yet powerful promise) then kill them all and gain immense power
@@hazeltree7738 honestly thats kinda weird since that means your a tureat tk them so there is no reason to swear that
Oaths forge the world, and will makes it real
The power of sincerity sounds like an excellent plot device and visualization mechanism for personal development.
I believe Stormfather would approve of this video.
These words have been accepted.
He found the words. The most important words a man can say.
Wow.
Another Video about Power-Systems not mentioning the arguably Best ever: Nen from HxH.
No matter how many say it's the literally best ever, it's barely mentioned in videos like this here.
@@loturzelrestaurant Wow, that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
However, if you so wish, here's a couple of details you have missed:
First and foremost, *so what?* If you feel there needs to be one, you can make it - no one else is forced to do so.
Secondly, the fact that you called it power-system speaks for itself. System that encourages power above all else, with no further meaning isn't very interesting at all, no matter how elaborate it is.
Thirdly, I know it sounds crazy, but maybe that's because it's not actually "the best" like you stated it is? Without any specific data, it is quite plausible it's just a vocal minority.
So, all in all, I suppose I can sum it up with a simple: Who asked, spammer?
@Diavolo Jaegar Yeah, and most who know those 3 will say Nen is the Best. A better, more thought-out version of Stands.
So why not call the Best the Best? The Majority says what the Majority says.
In an anime I watched called fate zero. They had a Geass system where If you write a contract it has to be honored and you can't go back on it as it's basically a deal by magus.
Coarse the smart way it was used by the main guy is writing he wouldn't kill the guy who signed it and had his helper do it instead. Basically thinking 4d chess which was extremely smart.
@Diavolo Jaegar being lancer is pain
ok but Kaleid is better than Zero
Geas, it's an actual Irish contract. Even Cu was under them I believe, like, he couldn't eat dog meanmt
@@firepuppies4086 that was for his vows and medb got smart guys way smarter than her to weaken him by half and then throw his weapons or his house and even then he still was winning if not for the last lucky shot.
This geas is more a contract directly signed and then we have the goddess aliance in Babylon where quetsocoatl got punished by losing half her power for Merlin messing up and why ereshkigal needed her link to be servered.
They don't use it enough
@@ivanbluecool actually, hell, it's what inspired Geass. Like, the actual spelling is Geas, but Lelouch's Geass is more like the traditional folklore Geas
Before watching this description sounds similar to Wildbow’s stories Pact and Pale where in there magic system oaths, promises, and truth are incredibly important
You could consider LitRPG quests as sort of an arbiter of promises. Someone gives you a task and the world acknowledges the terms conditions etc. I’ve also seen some series were quests will punish the giver if they refuse to or fail to meet their end of the deal (Dakota Krout’s Completionist Chronicles).
So, along the lines of this thought process, there is a book series call "The Craft Sequence" by Max Gladstone. It kinda falls in line with this video, the magic system is tied to (basically) legal binding contracts. The magic system is very unique and amazing. I'd super recommend the series to anyone that likes Fantasy and world building.
How about a bit of Magic as Programs as well?
No teleport
Not enough RAM
you are still below 64-bits
And you can’t even quad-process yet!
You home brewed a quick travel in a panic, that’s all…
XD
The magic system is "Pact" and "Pale" is all about "Words are power", which makes Practitioners be very careful with their words so they wouldn't swear oaths that they then accidentally break and become Foresworn, which basically revokes all the protection they gain from anything.
Seeing a mention of pact out in the wild gives me glee
This made me remember how in some cultivation novel/manga have heavenly oaths which are sworn promises usually of loyalty and if broken you lose your strength or get hit by lightning 🌩 or just straight up die on spot..
I actually really like how the Eragon series of books treats promises and the language surrounding them. Things said in the "ancient language" (or something like that, it's been a while) cannot be lies, and in the same breath, the ancient language is what is required to cast magic, so the words that you speak in the language are powerful.
In that way, the wording of your magic can be very important, and probably the best example of this is when (spoilers) Eragon blesses a baby to "be shielded from suffering" but since he's a novice in a second language, he accidentally says "be a shield for suffering" which we as the reader don't know at first. He finds this girl later in the series, and discovers that he's essentially committed her to a life of misery, constantly taking on the suffering of those around her, and she hates him for it. It's pretty messed up.
One of the best uses of The Ancient Language in the Inheritance Cycle imo. A really unique use of a language-based magic system. In general I like how fluid The Inheritance Cycle’s magic can be. It’s limited only by the casters knowledge and creativity, which are my favorite kinds of magic system.
Everybody go read Pale by Wildbow, it's one of the best web serials out there and does this wonderfully
I love seeing Sanderson talked about, such a creative and original author. I can't wait for the stormlight archive show or the mistborn movie.
Wait are these actual things or wishful thinking?
@@lunarevel brandon has showed interest in writting a screenplay for mistborn. So far as I know, SA tv show is just wishful thinking
It would have to be animated I think otherwise...eh
@@nigelwest5776 I agree, but I think it's going to be live action unfortunately. With mistborn that probably won't be so bad, but with Sa there's going to be so much CG used making it animated would just be cheaper.
Whenever magic systems are brought up I can't help but make reference to my favorite one, that comes from 2 web serials called "Pact" and the other "Pale"
Promises are a big deal there too. Because the value of a practitioner's word is a big deal, to the point which all lies are punished karmically. Breaking an oath however is the biggest punishment. It's losing your magic and forgoing all your protections afforded to you by the system, even those given to people without magic, and have the universe itself hate you.
Usually, unless your oathbreaking is extremely obvious, someone has to call you out for your oathbreaking. Call you forsworn. And if someone breaks their oath to you and you call them forsworn, you gain their power and their stuff (since all magical protections regarding ownership disappear from the forsworn). Depending on the oath, any person can do the forswearing, so it's not necesarilly the wronged party the one that gains that power.
This is a core part of the system, but in the large scale it's a small part. Because I see this magic system as a magic system that managed to capture all magic systems.
My favorite bit of it might be Implements. Basically, binding yourself to an object to make it a part of your magic and yourself. The effects whatever random object might have, you yourself reading this can start infering based on it's cultural, practical and historical characteristics.
What a wand is and signifies is very different than what a deck of cards, a cup, or a simple random rock signifies and therefore what effects it will have on your magic, not to mention if they are made of unconventional materials or have extra decorations and such.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer has Vengeance Demons, where if someone's heart is broken, a demon may show up and grant you a wish so you can have vengeance. Does that count as magic gained from a promise broken?
fyi… they prefer “Justice Demon” 😏
(it’s a paraphrased quote from the show, I’m not being a jerk, honest!)
Yeah that’s a perfect example
Stormlight Archives is omega goated as a fantasy series. Loved it and cant put it down, magic system is a huge help to drawing me into them
An interesting thing to remember about Stormlight Archive and other Cosmere (the greater shared universe) is that in order to have any magic at all you need a break in your soul to fit that magic in usually trauma and/or mental illness that means the only people who can hold a radiant ideal have to be people who will struggle to keep them.
This reminds me of how some of the paladin oaths are described in 5e d&d. You take an oath essential a promise to an ideal, and that is what grants you power.
Pact and Pale great webserials written by Wildbow (John C. Mcrae) and the entire magic system is based on making an oath to be truthful and in doing so your word becomes magically meaningful. If you remain truthful and keep your promises the spirits reward you. I think the magic system in Pact and Pale is also much more harsh that the other magic systems. If you lie and are called out on it then you lose magical power ranging from hours and even up to years in some circumstances and in this universe that is very dangerous since you lose magical protections and most things (Magical beings, other magic users, the universe itself) in the universe are passively or actively dangerous.
What's most striking in this magic system is the steep penalty that comes with breaking an oath. If a magic user ever breaks a promise then they immediately lose all of their magical power forever, are stripped of any and all protections and the universe itself becomes hostile to them (the universe will actively make things worse for them by having events conspire to make their lives worse) and on top of that people, magic users and magical creatures are rewarded for hurting oath breakers. In this universe, breaking an oath is one of the worst things that can happen to you, basically being a death sentence.
If you are interested in reading this then you can find it by googling for Pact or Pale web serial. They are both set in the same universe but are independent of each other. Pact was written first but I highly recommend that you skip that one and read Pale instead.
Here's a freebie. I can imagine a character that collects promises then forces them to be broken to fuel their magical effects.
Ursula from the Little Mermaid.
While it was not explicit, I suspect that was the reason why the sea witch made sure her clients ended as part of her garden.
This is sort of like a demon making a pact then doing everything in their power short of breaking the terms to cause you to break your end.
@@raistlin3462 While I do see the similarity. It didn't seem that Ursula's power came from the people subject to the added stipulations of her bargains, but she did get the power of king Triton when he freed Ariel? Was that Ursula's bargain or the act of taking Tritons crown and trident? Nuance.....
@@OpiatesAndTits yeah and the wording of their promise would have to be very deceptive and careful so they could cause the promise to break at the right time to use the "energy" when it was released. They could "store" the promise, but not the magic.
As for a promise based system, id prob make it similar to what we see in anime like Hunter X Hunter or Jujutsu Kaisen. The idea of having an unbreakable vow or stipulation added to your power in order to specialize it to an almost scalpel like level is unto itself a promise based magic system though in JJK's case they can range from being menial dips in power to having the magic work its effect on you.
To make this work id likely have it that any mage that wishes to really attain power must make a direct promise to aspect of reality, tether it to the point of a contract in exchange for the use of power. The idea would be akin to lawyering, but the amount of obligation to an ideal is directly correlated to how much power they attain. this is like having the power of prophecy, but having to speak in riddles, be blinded or maimed as to not be able to enjoy your gift etc. As to make a world setting where anyone can do this however and you run into an issue of not only having every joe and nancy being able to hurl bolts like zeus and you run into the issue of no way people being able to hav a civil society when everyone is a demigod and assuming the principle of MAD works out. My hero does this and its weird to assume that so little of the population is fraying and it takes an all for one or shigaraki or stain to set it off when it should be perpetually on pins and needles, all might or endeavour ot other characters be damned.
In short this is a hard system to crack and ill likely take a bit but i could possibly get it to work with time.
A fairly interesting example of promise as magic comes in the Wheel of Time series.
The magic users of the setting, Aes Sedai, swear oaths to never lie, never harm others except in the defense of life, and never to use their magic to create weapons. The trick is that, when they swear these oaths, they must be holding the Oath Rod when they do it. The Oath Rod is an ancient, binding artifact that makes it physically impossible for someone to break an oath they make while holding it. An Aes Sedai might attempt to lie, for example, but the words physically cannot leave their lips. This is why the Aes Sedai work around their oaths. They become master deceivers because everyone knows they can’t outright lie, and so non-Aes Sedai struggle realize the manipulation until it’s too late. An Aee Sedai might let someone die in a situation that the Aes Sedai put them in in the first place, but because they did not actually use magic to directly kill them it does not violate the Oath Rod
Oaths? The first words that left my lips were. Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination.
HA! I LOVE THAT CALLED IT BEFORE THE 1:00 mark XD
LET'S GOOOOO
Fixed the mistake with spelling Stength.
A great story I think you should read is ‘Omniscient Readers Viewpoint’. It’s a webnovel from Korea and extremely fascinating. It starts off as a story about a game like magic system, but evolves into a story about what it means to be a reader, an author, and a character. The power a story has over those inside the story, and the cliches and notes most stories have. I think you might enjoy it
Really really love the way you draw spren. I mean the art style for these videos in general is phenomenal, but these spren got me wanting to visit shadesmar
It might have included more spoiler-y subjects so I understand why you didn't include it but the Heralds and the Oathpack (also from Stormlight for anyone who hasn't read it) are a cool example of what happens when a promise with so much riding on it is broken. Also a cool idea of how Shards can't break promises but humans can.
You should look at the magic systems in Will Wights books!! He has 3 series currently: travelers gate, elder empire, and cradle which is his most popular
I really like the idea of a broken promise corrupting the person who broke it, turning them from a person who fought for their cause with a passion, to someone who actively goes against those ideals. I can just imagine an antagonist who follows this premise operating like a fallen Jedi and has become so drunk with power, they are driven insane.
I love the stormlight archive. I finished book 2 today
When I saw the title said “Promises as a Magic System?”, I imagined a system similar to the geas from Celtic mythology. Namely whenever you make a promise, you are magically bound to fulfill it. If for whatever reason you break it, you are inflicted with some sort of curse or even death.
Too bad you didn’t mention the Oathbreakers of Dunharrow in Middle-Earth, who broke their promise to fight for Isildur and Gondor. That’s an oath I remember pretty well too.
On the topic of one thing you mentioned. Someone taking a promise for power. A promise is often referred to as binding. It's you tieing down your word to something, but it's more. Your honor. Trust. Name. All of it goes with a promise. What if when you promise someone. Truly promise someone. You risk more then just your words. Your trust. You risk your name itself, whatever that could entail. Losing your name in other forms of lore such as fairys. You lose yourself. Losing it in some Japanese lore, you lose your life and choice. It's hard to say what all you could give if you give your word and name. And i would love to see something based off this or any theories now. Thank you for getting me interested and showing me so much on a promise. Truly. Thank you
The title made me think of the Stormlight Archive, and I'm so happy to see this aspect of surgebinding be discussed!! The books even have a brief exploration of what happens with contradictory promises (in Words of Radiance, if I remember right)
This made me think of a fantasy world where magic was tied to promises, but only if people really really meant them would anything happen.
So then it’s a tradition to make a magical promise to stay devoted to your partner on your wedding day; but then you can imagine someone making the promise at the alter only for nothing to happen lol
What you've talked about here made me re-examine the magic and promises/devotion in one of my favorite bits of fantasy, the Elder Scrolls. The people of Nirn can gain powers or access to unique magic through engaging in informal contracts and promises with the Aedra and Daedra. A servant of Malacath can gain superior strength and protection from his deity, but that can taken away or inverted if they stray from their devotion.
The classic vampire trope of having to be invited in is another example of a promise kept giving the recipient some magical reward
Edit: here's a memory based magic system- you make an agreement and are told of some punishment or evil to befall you at some point. If you ever forget it, it happens to you.
One of my favorite magic/power systems that work similarly is nen, and more specifically nen limitations. In HxH what a nen user does to give his abilities more potential or make them stronger is usually create limitations on what they can do with the ability, which they then can expend on with establishing the consequences if they break said limits. the best example in the manga and anime would be kurapika and his chain creation ability. In order to make his chains be more then just a regular chains he made them have unique abilities and made them unbreakable, and he did that by limiting himself with using them only for their main purpose, with the most interesting one being that the most deadly chain of all the once he have he will use only on 1 group of people. And if he will not apply to his limits it will cost his life.
I just came across your channel by chance and I am only a few minutes into this video so far but I wanted to say I absolutely love your art style.
The Oaths in Stormlight are both promises by the spren and the human. Both parties are supposed to grow and change for the better. The human grows closer to their ideal, while the spren begins to grow closer to humanity. There is a lot more give and take than I think most people catch on. Kal & Syl's relationship is probably the best showcase of this, they are both healing from past traumas. Same with Shallan and Pattern (and the spoiler). I'm hoping that the other books will begin to give us more insight into the bonds between other knights (and the bondsmiths) and their spren.
I believe there are 2 lines that best embody the philosophy of the Oaths: "The most important step a man can take is the next one, always the next one" and "WE CHOSE!!"
the first is fairly evident to those who have not read the book, the second one will require you to read the series to really get the full impact of it.
This gave me some inspiration for promised based magic. Instead of fuffilling promises granting you abilities, you must bargain with entities, with magic itself, offering promises and deals inorder to just cast the magic, and if you dont follow through with the promise there are consiquences.
The idea of a fae adopting a kid is something I adore.
I'm picturing now a dnd character: a warlock with an archfey patron who, when they want to invoke the magic of their patron, they call out the first word they ever spoke to them: "Papa!"
also, in regards to the oathbreaker paladin, I'm sure this has been done before, but... A paladin who broke their oath of devotion to their patron god, Orcus. Now, as an oathbreaker, they turn the undead, perform healing and revival magic, and oh, did I mention they were Neutral Good?
I could listen to this dude for hours
One neat example of promises and oaths granting power is from the anime/manga Jujutsu Kaisen. Though sometimes crossing over into bargains or contracts with demons and the like, a lot of power in those situations can come from the deals themselves; most apparent with those that make vows with the magic system itself.
See, the magic system in JJK is based on curses; fueled by hatred and fear and the like. This means something sorcerers can do it that series is make a vow to their own magic in order to fuel their power with the inconvenience of upholding their end of the bargain.
One common way this is done, which is very anime, is to explain your power to your enemy to fuel your curse with the inconvenience of an informed opponent; a trade off of knowledge for raw power.
My favourite example is one character’s Overtime technique; where this character limits his powers for 8 hours everyday. Once those 8 hours are up, his power increases dramatically-I imagine everything he set aside for those 8 hours + interest for the inconvenience-allowing him to swiftly finish up any remaining work.
I absolutely love Stormlight Archive, a magic system based entirely around traumatized people rising up from the shards of their shattered mental states
I have something similar in my superhero comic universe thing. People gain superpowers from mental and/or physical trauma, which is the "awakening."
@@FuraFaolox That's basically what happens in another series by the same author, Mistborn, where people get their powers by "snapping" which is caused by trauma, assuming you have the potential in the first place. Attempts to find the people who do have potential can kill anyone who doesn't have it.
On the angle of recipients of promises, I have a couple ideas from my own life.
Receiving a broken promise does more long term damage than just the damaged trust. It damages the _ability_ to trust. So it's not just that you can no longer trust the oathbreaker, it becomes harder to trust anyone. Ever.
If there's magic wrapped up in a promise, the recipient's benefit or suffering from it would most surely be at least partially dependent on that trust. After all, a promise unbelieved is nothing more than nice words. So, particularly with binding promises, there could easily be benefits for both parties even if the promise is only one-way, but if the recipient doesn't trust the promise, they can't receive the full benefit.
As an example, take a knight's oath to his ward princess. Not only could the magic of the oath strengthen his shield arm and steady his blade when standing in her defense, but she could receive a boost to her resilience and bearing just from receiving the oath. If her ability to trust is damaged, she'd either not receive the benefits, or they'd be lessened in strength.
Naturally, this would feed back into her distrust of oaths because there's no effect on her, and with that perspective she'd be blind to the benefits her knight gains. In a particularly dire situation, her belief that he's just going through the motions could drive her to drive him away without formally releasing him from his oath, thus bringing the retribution of the broken oath on him despite his full intent to keep it.
This tiny hole in the fabric of trust, created by an oathbreaker in her youth, could very easily be spun around as a tragedy that not only leaves her unprotected while her knight suffers his retribution for an involuntarily broken oath, but the whole ordeal would potentially damage the ability to trust possessed by anyone who knew of the oath and heard of her demise as he wasn't by her side.
Naturally if any of you want to explore this potential, I'd recommend finding a healthier mind than I to explain how this ability to trust can be restored, or commit to writing a world trapped in a downward spiral of broken oaths and shattered trust. Maybe it would require spirits like the spren who's trust is absolute when they accept a promise, if only to allow the rare oathkeeper someone who believes them. Or the world would just come to think of oath magic as a fool's path because it relies on the oathmaker being able to keep their word in a world distrustful of them.
One thing I like about promises and contracts is that it gives room for creative technicalities for characters to create and get out of traps
In Glen Cook's Black Company saga, breaking your word directly isn't something to do for power - but in order to wield magic, you must deceive the world, that nobody knows who you are, because anyone who recites your true name to you can bind and disrupt your power. So in a sense, breaking your bonds of familiarity, rejecting friendship and kinship, is a necessary sacrifice to magic in a very interesting way in that setting. I also like the style of it which, where Tolkien at times went a little overboard with flowery language and drawn-out descriptions, The Black Company thrives on descriptions straight out of the Norse sagas - "They fought, and the one mortally wounded his opponent" kind of stuff. It makes the series very different to a lot of other Fantasy stuff.
Have you gotten to Bleak Seasons? Cook plays his hand at Kurt Vonnegut through the voice of Murgen. It's a beautiful story of horror and trauma.
There's a similar example in The Writer's Room 7th Sea podcast. It's a play-through of a TTRPG, and the fae characters are very bound to promises. Breaking promises to them causes them to unravel; their personalities change somewhat. I haven't gotten far enough into the story yet to see how their magical powers alter, but it's hinted that might be the case. (I'm busy enough that I can't keep up with new episodes but I'm trying!)
I'm amazed that nobody's talked about Pact and Pale. I think they're the quintessential example of "magic coming from promises". In it, not only are promises binding, even saying a *lie* is enough to weaken your power, through karmic universe stuff. You can be gainsaid for lies, which are usually a minor hit to your power that stops you from being able to use magic for a few days to a few weeks. However, if you break a promise or oath, you can be forsworn, which forever seperates you from magic and turns the very universe against you. It's worth taking a read, and Pale in particular is an absolutely *phenomenal* story.
The stormlight archive is one of the best series I’ve read in a long long long time.
I actually built one of my own stories off of the idea of Oaths as power, and then I read the Stormlight Archive and realized that he did it way better than I ever could have lol
Life before Death
Strength before Weakness
Journey before Destination
I’ve had this realization a couple times with Brandon Sanderson. It was quite irksome. That being said, I wouldn’t say he did it “better”, just in a way that was more thought out than the concepts I had been playing with.
I stay away from appraisal based comparisons, especially with creators who’ve had literally decades more of experience that I have haha
9:00 There's a popular Chinese web novel called "Heaven Official's blessing" where Gods dissappear once they have no believers. The God of bad luck/plague/ misfortune appeared to have only survived for 800 years because he had just one believer who happened to be immortal. It's a gay romance, and it has a beautiful anime/manhua. The story is pretty all over the place since it was originally a web novel, but I do suggest you take a look at this story.
@ 9:20 you talk about power being received from promises made. I suggest The Land, a LIT RPG. Fantastic books and follows a similar idea
This made me remember about the power of Geass in celtic myths. Particularly Chu Chulains geass, he promised not to eat any dog meat and be hospitable when he visits someone else's house.
So his enemy made him eat dog meat when he visits someone's house breaking his oath and making him lose his powers, he then proceeded to fight to the death by tying his intestines to a rock.
What a madlad.
This sounds like an amazing idea for a Magic System
It's almost like, Contracts and Gaining energy from Faith in games I know of.
SMT (Shin Megami Tensei) : "Contracts" bind Demons and even Heavenly being to fight for and along side you having them Promise you not to attack you indiscriminately
Hyper Dimension Neptunia : The faith of the people give the CPUs (Goddesses) the power of strength and the power to transform. The belief of the people keep a CPU alive and gives them enough Power, if they lose the Power they die or start to age
My idea for magic in this Catagory: Forming bonds with fictional characters which grant you with abilities from those fictional worlds. The more fictional characters you form bonds with the stronger the ability, as well as more abilities are given to you
All of this made me remember several magic system. One of them I ended up paying more attention to for I know a couple of "special ones"
One unrelated to promises but still my favorite to date is from "Reverend Insanity"
It is both incredibly intuitive and mysterious and complex.
It rellies on 2 key components
-gu
-aperture
Gu is the biggest component. It's an insect, plant or whatever form it takes. It is a medium of a sort. Each gu have a single power. You nurture and feed them to keep them alive as they are living things.
Then the aperture is like an organ that stores an energy.
If you awakened and tamed a gu you can flow your energy from yourself to the gu and manifest said power. Simple enough.
But Gu itself doesn't eat magic power. They eat specific ingredients and it's similar to alchemy.
The wielder might end with energy but no gu as it starved to death or just being poor, or you might have Gu but no energy or the skill to wield it.
They have several levels of potency and as it grows in rank it gets rarer and rarer. And more and more expensive to feed them. Making the community requirements of forces or rarity more involved in the process.
Up to rank 6. Where Gu becomes "immortal Gu". It becomes astronomical in requirements and exponentially more complex for each successive ranks after that. (The most important aspect of immortal Gu is they are unique.)
It's a piece of the world like a fragment at this point. It's a condensed aspect of its domain. There can be no 2 immortal Gu the same until the Gu dies or is destroyed. You can imitiate effect with the right combination. But yea no other way.
Also another thing that as importance at immortal level is domains are mutually exclusive. So you can't just coordinate wood or plant with metalurgy. Even if it seems closer in relationship. If it's a different domain it will be Mutually exclusive so although being more diverse your techniques will most likely all lower in quality.
But yea it got quite complex over time. The book is long and really rewards if you remember things or pay attention. But it's a slow discovery as you progressively learn the system of this magic world until it's intuitive.
But in the end Gu in its purest form can be described as essence. Or concepts. Making it very vague. But very clear what could or could not work.
Want to clear some distance? The Gu leap can work. (Most likely strength domain). Or else you could go with law and use "distance Gu". To shorten distance. Or space domaine with "teleport". Or time domain with "fast" or some form of rewind if you were there in the past.
In the end there are many ways to get an effect. But it forces different solutions to everything. And at this rank only a handful even have Gu of their ranks. So even if they want to often they only have 0 or 1 to achor their whole strategy around unless incredibly rich or stronger then average.
So it gets rather interesting.
In the end magic system is strong and only works to increase intrege and backstabbing in the novel.
I recommend. But it's a slow read. About 2000 chapters a few every day.
To bolster moral a bit I'd say every 50 chapter or so a plot line is resolved. And more or less every 200 chapters a background intrigue or plot line of unanswered questions(foreshadowing) the pieces fall in order and the situation comes to term or explode.
And despite having a seemingly strong trump card it's supprisingly very sparingly used. Most of its use was early in the novel. So stakes stay rather tense.
the radio play Small Gods for BBC Radio 4 with Anton Lesser's narration is superb
do you remember me ?
You are a cat
Trust me this whole keeping a promise thing is something I have never had someone do with me ever. Honestly the thing that constantly happens to me is people promise to be my friend and support me and as soon as I start to become successful they get jealous and suddenly start a bunch of drama with me and get mad at me for actually being successful rather than just supporting me in my success.
omg i love all your art and your soft narration ♡♡♡
I had no idea about Sanderson until I found the "Sprun" item in Enter the Gungeon. I'm glad I did.
Oaths are the basis of everything. I love Stormlight and all things Brandon Sanderson. Great author
Regarding the idea you laid out around 9:20, the Elder Wood series (a collection of short stories online set in a shared world, many inspired by fables or folk tales) has a similar idea. After a great change in the past, beings of Faerie require connections in the world to remain in it - lovers, children, champions, debtors and so on. So extracting promises from mortals is a good way for them to stay in the mortal world.
On the lines of broken promises giving power or similar - I read a book a while back with a similar-ish premise, though I can't remember for the life of me what it was called.
In summary - the beginning isn't very nice. Essentially it worked like - two people make some sort of promise/bond/oath/etc, and bind it with some form of bracelet. Didn't have to be much, just a bit of string would do, but upon sealing it would be locked on the persons arm forever until the promise was either dispelled or broken. If the promise was ever broken, they would become haunted by an apparition of the person with whom you made the bond - not them as such, more something taking on their form and with some of their memories to chastise you with enraged screaming, thrown objects, etc. Basically your own personal poltergeist. In order to dispel the apparition you needed to go to some holy place and be forgiven by it.
Doesn't seem that great, except - if you aren't forgiven by the apparition upon going to that holy place, you are instead entered into a sort-of "training", where you are taught how to use/work with the apparition to perform magical feats - essentially becoming some form of special magic user.
Bear in mind - my explanation is terrible because I only read the book once in our local library like - three or more years ago, and I still can't remember its name to be able to look into it more.
I know the summary of the early plot is that the main character has a bond that they had since infancy, and since they're adopted nobody knew what it was or where it came from, until one day it breaks for seemingly no reason and they become haunted by an apparition of their best friend - who incidentally had no rage towards them and seemed as confused as they were, and decided to help them figure out what the oath was, and become a mage in the process since why not.
The tabletop game Changeling: the Lost features oaths, pledges, and contracts as a central mechanic for its magic system.
You actually got to maintain a contract of sorts with mortals so that the wyrd (which is the field of magic, basically narrative contrivance as a force of nature) doesn't see you as out of place, meaning you'll have to get up to some rumpelstiltskin shenanigans to maintain a contract frequently (the mortal can return the favour by something inconsequential like baking a pie each week and leaving it on their window sill).
You can also seal pledges, which is a minor contract that compels the target to follow up on their word. Doesn't work on magical beings, but actually following through on pledges can be a show of character.
There are oaths, which are more powerful, but more dangerous to break (I don't recall the exact details, but an oath is indefinite, and heavily frowned upon when broken without considering how the wyrd will react).
There are also goblin contracts: powerful abilities at a price. One of these will summon the true fae to your location, a feat so powerful yet so dangerous, it counts as its own drawback.
Makes me think of an idea, what if the concept of cancellation was made into a magic system? A world in which, when people commit an act that a majority of others consider unforgivable, justified or no, that person just, disappears. Physically they are just gone. They exist as a phantom in some other realm, able to see their old loved ones and old world, but are unseen by them. Any good thing they had done, any work that inspired joy, a medical advancement that saved lives, is simply erased from history. The only memories retained of the person by others are the purely negative ones. Magic originates from these phantom's attempts to bring themselves back into the world. The more their magical powers are used, the closer they get to breaking the spell that binds them.
I’m barely 5 minutes in and you got me hooked on this book series!
One of my favorite stories when it comes to Oaths and promises is that of Constantin and his sister Durantine. Constantin promised that he would bring his sister home to see their mother after she married if she felt lonely, but he died in a war together with all his older brothers.
His mother cursed his soul and to fulfill his oath he returned from the dead as a vampire-like creature with a magic horse made from the earth and stone of his own grave. He rode along at night towards his sister's house and took her to see their mother but vanished before his sister could thank him. After explaining she had been brought there by Constantin to her mother, Durantine hears from her of the fate of all those brothers and both of them died of fright upon realizing what happened.
the Japanese mobile game Mahoutsukai No Yakusoku (literally "Promise of Wizard" or "The Wizard's Promise") centers majorly on promises, and promises being broken, having tangible power over wizards. I honestly wonder if me trying to watch more content about it was why I was recommended this video in the first place. very cool!
I'm reminded of Hermes in Greek mythology. Hermes is an interesting case because one of the powers he was considered to have was the ability to swear false oath--while every other god, when swearing by the waters of the river lethe (because they couldn't exactly use another god as a witness), would create a promise they were bound to uphold... Hermes had no such restriction. To my understanding this was part of his role as the protector of travelers and tricksters, but it's a curious ability to have been recognized and even *praised* by those who told stories about him and worshipped him.
Geasa/geasan in Celtic mythology sometimes seem to work this way- certainly, when Cú Chulainn is forced to break a geas, it is his undoing.
Also, in the Horus Heresy, breaking their oaths, casting aside their ideals and murdering their closest friends is a source of power for the traitor legions, particularly the Word Bearers. Sacrificing your loyalties and friendships, beyond just normal human sacrifice, bringing the dark gods' blessings is a really powerful concept - I guess there is a lot of pathos to be found in killing your friends for power. Who could have guessed?
This seems illogical to me because if one can find his way to murdering a friend... was that person ever truly a friend? Or just someone to be used? I think that rather than go for friend killing (were I a "dark god" in WH40K lore or in any other lore) I'd want the sacrifice of innocent persons because innocence in itself is a power that is often unassailable from the perspective of evil.
@@jchinckley some things are more important than friendship. And the warp reflects reality- the loss of a friendship is massive, so it's effects in the warp are similarly huge. In terms of writing, killing 'innocents' makes a bad guy more evil, but cartoonishly so. Killing those you are connected to can be a far more vivid evil, to the reader, or can humanise you and emphasise the tragedy, as like Medea you are driven to kill the ones you love for the sake of some higher purpose, be it revenge, loyalty to your Primarch, the desire to worship the gods or whatever else.
I listened to a book recently "A market of dreams and destiny" (I think it only came out in the last year or so) which has a magic system very much based on bargains, deals and trade, and promises do play a part of it. A lot of it in a dark way, like indentured servitude, people even giving up there children for some kind of magical goods or services in exchange for promising there children X years of service to the provider. And there can be consequences for not holding up your end of the bargain, I really liked that book and it's magic system, in part as it meant the protagonists could not brute force or fight there ways out of issues as it was all magic contracts, they needed to look for loop holes and outsmart people to get out of there contracts.
I'm in love with your art! Your videos and tutorials are so helpful and insightful. I can't wait to see more of your incredible work!💕
This video was so mind blowing, I just kept thinking about promises of hate, like what if a group of 7 bandits with a group name murdered an entire village but left a survivor and they made a promise to themself to get revenge and gain powers, something similar happens in hunter x hunter with kurapika who makes a vow on his heart that if he hurt anyone other than that group with his specific ability his heart would be stabbed
you're a really good story teller
i could listen to you for hours
I’m literally in the process of reading the Stormlight Archives right now. Such an amazing series
Probably not going to be seen but I'd like to talk about it somewhere.
I'm currently writing a little book that is quite similar to the spren concept. The core idea is the same though: dedicate enough time to something and magical creatures linger around/follow you.
The differences I can think of for my own story is the creatures that you draw in, just by being around you in of itself gives you a magical reward by reducing fatigue, stress and sickness. This in itself being so you can generally 'do more' with the thing you're dedicating enough time to, to attract magical creatures. The much more supernatural abilities comes with a formal oath to continue dedicating to your own thing.
The more popular ones being that 'to be the best something in my city' which comes with its own adaptive set of things. For example wanting to be the fastest runner. The supernatural effects that would be worked toward are: superspeed, information processing to keep up with moving that fast and a musco-skeletal structure that scales with how fast you are.
I enjoy the system that a book I read called chaos seed uses. In it a promise can be kept by the world and if someone brakes it, the world itself will punish the offender as severely as the promise was. The punishment can be anything from tripping on nothing to dying on the spot.
I also find the way a promise is given to the world because not every promise is kept in check. To tell the world that you want this promise to be kept by it the person making the promise must repeat it three times and the person receiving the promise must then say "thrice heard and witnessed" This process can also be used on favors and to prove you are telling the truth, but when you do that last one you lose a small bit of power so it isn't used unless necessary.
An example for getting magical power after a promise to you has been broken might be Kalista from League Of Legends, where people betrayed can become part of the spectre Kalista and together exact their revenge on the (and all) oathbreaker/s. Though becoming part of her/them is quite permanent and you'd be giving yourself up to add to their power more than getting power to act on your own behalf.
I got became a Sanderspren just before the Way of Kings leatherbound Kickstarter, and Sanderson has been exactly what I’ve been looking for in a fantasy novelist since o read LotR! Thank you for doing a video like this, it’s amazing!!
Fugjiko A. Fujo's Laughing Salesman manga/anime is a great example on the topic of magical promise also C.S Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia
I’ve only seen the first 3 minutes but I’m instantly reminded of spirit contracts. I’ll update after I’m through the video
I had some promise magic, generally enchantments are written and are very literal.
You have a weapon "the bond of the dead" which won't dull or gain so much as a scratch until the dragon it was made to kill is dead.
You have this sort of binding where both parties have to agree to be bound to the other, it allows them to know how the other is feeling at any point, they can see through each other's eyes, they even share wounds or exhaustion.
In volume 5 of the “Magical Girl Raising Project” book series, there’s a character who has the ability to literally make people keep their promises. Once they promise something, there is literally nothing they can do to break it, no matter how much they wanted to.
Man this topic so much I relate to. And Sally I'm constantly been put in the opposite side to where I keep my promises but the other people around me don't. I'll even be trying to compromise those promises till I give them majority of the aid to even accomplish the promise and even be satisfied with the notion that they tried. But it will seem like some cruel joke and they don't do it even when it's so easy and they get nothing but gain out of it they have broken promises to me I still can't do this day fathom the reason why people do these things. Then we talk about the subject of people who break promises that also help people besides the obvious one that I was talking about but now I'm switching over to the ones who easily break promises so much so that of course they don't give a crap on the consequences to the other people around them. Making it hot so much more to be aware of these people getting seconds and third chances
id love to see a story that describes all the morale progress weve made over time thru these sort of promise stories, where maybe people stay tied to allegiances and this determines their ability to affect the word for change aswell, basically what ideas rule over others ect
Magic systems as a magic system. A godly being makes a ruleset of magical happenings, such as promises being binding, creations being magical if cared about my their creators, etc
Something interesting that really warrants more thought: Why is it that people are so quick to write others off? The idea that someone who breaks promises is "irredeemable", that comes up in the middle of this video, seems to be a mindset people find easy to fall into. The idea that wrongdoing justifies not only punishment, but devaluing of the person, is a thing that comes all too readily to human intuition. But is that truly moral? Or is it just spite?
There's a non-fiction book which argues that this isn't human nature, but a historical development in unequal societies.
Apparently, humans used promises and loans instead of money or barter for most of pre-history - since they spent their entire lives in small, high-trust villages. If the debtor fell on hard times and could no longer pay, these promises could be amended or forgiven easily since the human came first.
This is contrasted with later empires which profited from slave-trading. These societies would introduce Debt laws where debtors and their families could be sold into slavery as punishment for not paying (violently enforced by the ruling class which would own the slaves). Debts became unforgivable because the human comes last and is devalued in a way.
It's called Debt by David Graeber, there's a summary here: alexdanco.com/2020/05/15/debt-the-first-5000-years/
when it comes to the 5e paladin, the biggest change made to the class (as compared to past editions) is that their power comes from their oath, not the deity they worship. And while this allows for atheistic paladins, there's a more interesting story dynamic that can be explored (not my idea, but one that's caught my eye). A paladin, who has been faithful and loyal to their deity, finds that their god/goddess is secretly corrupt/evil or otherwise betrays whatever moral standing the paladin had for them, and the paladin confronts their deity for it. Upon being confronted by the paladin, the deity claims that the paladin would be breaking it's oath if they continue to question/confront them, only for the paladin to respond by saying "I'd be breaking my oath if I didn't" and i just love this idea.
There's another variant of this that's similar to the story Small Gods, where it's the followers themselves who are corrupt and using the deity's name to further their own goals while leaving the deity high & dry, where a "true believer" discovers this corruption and helps their deity fix/cleanse their religion of this corruption.
There is a book series, albeit short, that explores the proposition you presented; broken promises bing rewarded, but not entirely in depth, complicated or even inertly explained.
In the book series Lore and Lust by Karla Nikole, vampires can bond with one another by sharing blood, intimacy and physical engagements. This is completed when the "innate natures" of the pair, or, their lifesource, which is unique to every vampire, kind of like Nen from Hunter x Hunter, combine into one, linking them together.
The main character Haruka, a vampire whose family studied this phenomenon across several centuries, became bonded with someone chosen for him, equivalent to an arranged marriage, and they spent 10 years together. His bonded mate, however, sought another vampire's bed, and the repercussions were so dire, Haruka vowed never to bond again. That is, until he meets the second main character, Nino.
His first bound mate, who broke their bond, is unable to form other bonds, suffers from constant malnutrition, and physical, visible weakness,as if to punish her. Haruka, in contrast, remains at optimal strength and capability, even becoming far more powerful than before with his next mate, than he ever was with her. It's almost a turnaround story, in which the sufferer gains what the inflictor loses, physical prowess and power, and an even stronger bond than ever.
It's, nothing intimately explained in any depth, and it's definitely not something applied in the entirety of the world, only a special case in a typical "unique lovers" scenario. But it does carry a semblance of the magic system you are proposing.
Disclaimer: Lore and Lust is an explicit BL romance read, so I only recommend for ages 18+
Your mileage may vary, but this brings to mind (somewhat) Wildbow's "Pact" setting - where Magic exists, and is very much Fae in nature. You can appeal to the countless spirits of the world by bargain and by arguing their rules, but you also are expected to keep your promises or suffer the karmic consequences. And ancestral guilt is very much a thing, too - negative karma doesn't disappear with the practitioner, it is tied to their bloodline and any family member can be suddenly responsible for the debts of their forebears... even if they never knew magic existed in the first place.
Oh, and you become somewhat responsible for the actions of those you bring into the "world" of magic, so you need to choose carefully.
Still, being able to argue with magic itself that someone has lost to you three times and proven themselves unworthy of working against you, and then having their working undone by magic itself is a pretty cool idea.