So this video is kind of dying right now, which sucks because I worked really hard on it. So comments and likes and shares really do help the algorithm! If you want to see more of these more technique focused videos and access the extra description analysis, you can at www.patreon.com/posts/50323669 I know I blabber on about patreon, but it really does let me do better content without worrying about views as much. So thank you ~ Tim and Supreme Empress Momo
Hi Tim! I'm sorry if you don't want it, but I want to give you my quick thoughts on your own description: I liked the description of Alice, especially the comparrions to wood and particular driftwood (I've never heard anyone describe skin like that before) - it's very visual and both beautiful to me (who likes the ocean and driftwood) and yet then tragic, because it's her skin that's shaped like that. The "battle-scar" wording seems a bit too dramatic to me though, but maybe it isn't overdramatic in the context of the story and conflict. But yea, really liked it. Thank you for all your work and videos. I wish you the best of luck with your writing! Remember, write for yourself and your own enjoyment - try to not get let down by what everyone else (including me) judges.
Tim, given the spectacular array of RUclipsrs who lent their voices includes a number who focus on scripts and movies, do you know if any intend to address this subject for screenplays?
it hurts to know that using "orbs" to describe eyes have now been replaced by "curvaceous hips ready for childbearing" because it will now forever prance around my nightmares
Same. I have no idea why eyes being roughly spheroid is something authors feel they need to draw attention to. Thought if the were popped out of a socket I'd make an exception, as at least then the shape would be more relevant to what's going on in the scene.
Lmao, reading 365 Days (or whatever the book is called,) are you? My goodness I hope it doesn't drive you too insane, I wish you the best of luck, and sanity with that one. I love your vids btw ❤️
Though he forced a smile, Tim's lip quaked behind his scrappy whiskers as he spoke of sharing his writing with the internet. But then his round puppy-dog eyes turned to look at us, his adoring fans, the brown so deep we could fall through them right into his Patreon account.
"She had a glare on her that could only have come from countless hours in a staring contest with her own reflection. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she won a few of them"
@@stehplatzb.4310 Oh that's just a simple matter of physics, the light reflecting off of your face travels to the mirror and forms an image there and then said light is reflected off the mirror and is processed by your eyes. Ergo you will always blink before your reflection. Admittedly though it would be measured in nano seconds which only people in very specific fields of study in very specific circumstances care about
@@oliverschoneck7750 cheers, it's a excerpt from a story I'm working on. I wanted to highlight her indomitable will/stubbornness, oh and also her temper
An addition to the Hunger Games description: Suzanne Collins does point out that Katniss originally had an „olive“ skin tone because she was comparing herself to her mother and Prim who had light skin and blond hair, but the description served as a way of showing that the inhabitants of the Seams, the poor part of the District, were physically distinguishable from the more wealthy merchants. It’s used to not only show that katniss‘s mother must’ve loved her father a lot to leave the little wealth she had behind and drives home the point of beauty being inherently linked with wealth which is a theme explored in the trilogy. From that point on Katniss’s looks are described in greater detail when she has to be in front of cameras, highlighting the point Suzanne Collins was making about the image of a person within propaganda and how looks and styling determine the perception the people of Panem have of first the Hunger Games and then the Rebellion. So while there are a lot more descriptions of katniss than the braid alone, they all serve a purpose both character-wise and to further the underlying message of the story. Thank you for coming to my TED-talk lmao.
@@egggge4752 yeah I was kind of young when the book came out but I could compare myself to Katniss and I didn’t see myself in her because I was a scary kid and I was darker than her (I’m black) and plus as I got older I noticed my breasts growing and my butt growing and I thought well I don’t look my heroes in any book I’ve ever read
Me, hearing Dominic Noble's voice in this video as I'm cleaning my kitchen: My inner monologue, complete with the proper voice: "My goodness, The Dom, what are /you/ doing here?" I may have watched too much RUclips recently... lol
“They say she cooked her own cancers for people that crossed her” Is SUCH a vividly and effectively horrifying bit of imagery. Like it’s great writing because it’s so terrifying.
@@Georgia-p6xI don't quite grasp it either but I think it means she would literally create a disease specifically for a person she disliked and infect them with it.
yeah, I think Divergent is a good example of that trope, the mirror reflects an incredibly important part of her culture. Divergent was an interesting book because it promised an exploration of what it meant for a society to live by one core value and what it meant to not fit into that. Of course the end of the book ruins all of it by throwing it all out of the window in favour of rebelling against authority many times over but it was a nice premise.
Yes, but it's still lazy, uninspired writing. I'm sure the author didn't make up that reasoning, she just didn't want to put in the effort. I remember her announcing proudly she wrote Divergent in three weeks, which... yeah that explains a lot.
I don't know, it feels to me like the opposite should be true. For instance, an actual method for coping with body dismorphia is getting rid of all full body mirrors. Seeing yourself in a mirror more often makes you more aware of your looks. Only seeing yourself in a mirror once a year should make you less concerned with how you look it seems to me
@@p.yofori5313 Tim used to say these things a lot. For example, never explain something saying it worked because 'A Wizard Did It', and then there'd be a GIF of Gandalf dancing. And at the beginning, before uncomplicationg certain topics, he'd say "-topic x- IS COMPLICATED".
Maybe not the best character description but I can't forget Murakami's way of describing one of his character in 1Q84: "His smile is the kind you would find in the back of a drawer" :"D
The Curvaceous hips are the most awkward and most hilarious descriptor ever especially during the first example where the intensity is gradually increased through your expression and tone. Great joke and definitely one of my favorite videos
@@pougetguillaume4632 I think Hemingway wrote it in one of his short stories? Not sure though. Edit: The art of racing in the rain by Garth Stein, going off of r/menwritingwomen.
Gonna be honest, gross as it sounds, I kind of like that hips-ready-for-childbearing-descriptor - at least in certain contexts. It tells you that the PoV character does not respect women at all, etc. while also giving you a vivid picture of the woman, all while wrapping it in a nicely disgusting sentence that you're not likely to forget.
@@karlzone2, let me ask you something tricky here. Does the lip description of that nameless guy shows the reader that the PoV character "does not respect" men? Is any sexually suggestive/sensual description "disgusting" in your perspective? Or only those that express heterosexual point of view of a male character, perhaps?
Sometimes even songs have excellent character descriptions: "she moves like she don't care...smooth as silk, cool as air..oooh, it makes you wanna cry" That's poetry
I know it's a bit obvious, but "Your beauty is beyond compare With flaming locks of auburn hair With ivory skin and eyes of emerald green Your smile is like a breath of spring Your voice is soft like summer rain And I cannot compete with you, Jolene"
If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards' - Terry Pratchett An amazing way to show that a character is prone to misfortune and bad decisions.
not only 2minutes in and every FanFiction writer has tears in their narrowed chocolate eyes, that normally would sparkle with hope of being heard by a Video like that.
You forgot the Single Tear ;P Bonus points if your character is described as having chocolate eyes in an era/region where chocolate wasn't even introduced yet.
I'm sitting back in my chair, feet propped on my desk, staring at the screen; hoping for the sweet rush of inspiration. I undo my pony tail, just to do something anything with weirdly shaped hands. I stare are the screen and think how I often feel called out for being a fanfiction writer; however, the reviews I receive of people thanking me for writing stories that help through their tough times. Escapism. I know this all too well. A small part of my even smaller body is happy that someone has found comfort in my words. Maybe, the saying is true. The reason my eyes and hair are brown is because I am full of sh*t
Question, is the “main character looks in a mirror and describes themselves” trope *always* bad? Because that’s how I’m introducing my character in a story of mine-but I feel like it’s fitting for him. One of his main focuses is his reputation and how others perceive him, and he’s just moved to a completely foreign land. In my mind, it makes sense for him to examine himself in the mirror. So I guess what I mean to say is, Can it still be done well and in a non-cliche way if it fits the character? Edit: also, I look at myself in the mirror and study my appearance, too, so it’s not *too* abnormal, right?
Sounds fine if you're actually connecting his description to that context in some way. You could also have him repeat that action a couple of times throughout the narrative. Show that it's a characteristic habit and not just a one-off thing.
It can absolutely be fine. But what you have to keep in mind when you compare it to how you study/check yourself in a mirror (like many people regularely do), is HOW you think of yourself. You probably don't look in a mirror and think "I have short hair", but go over a number of features you personally care about, or think about them in how they've been changing. "I should get a haircut soon, my hair looks messy if I don't keep it short." Not that I have any experience in writing character descriptions, but I'd say in your scenario it would be fitting to establish is as a sort of routine. In the vein of "Like every morning before leaving the house, he took a minute to check himself over." Additionally, framing it about his desire/worries over how he's perceived. E.g. Making sure his beard is at a length that doesn't look unkempt. Checking how his shirt compliments his noticeable biceps. Being satisfied that the green on his eyes doesn't have attention drawn away by dark circles under his eyes.
Turn the "protagonist looking at themselves in the mirror for no reason on it's head" by having it show their vanity or insecurity. Describe how this is a normal occurrence for them, whether they're fixated on some single minor flaw or describing how gorgeous they think their eyes are, that's one way to do it.
@kawaiifables Your writing teacher doesn't sound great. Nothing should be universally forbidden in writing. Just because mirrors are frequently misused doesn't mean they can't be used right.
A character should never be introduced doing something abnormal to them (unless their role in the story involves that abnormality, e.g. someone being forced to work for a system they hate). If you think you need to have them do something out of character to introduce them properly, you need to either think more outside the box or write a different character.
@kawaiifables My elementary school teacher gave me poor marks for having an introduction unrelated to the main plot, when I got that from the Hardy Boys. And as far as I can remember, I feel I did a pretty good job with that one too, establishing traits I thought were important. It was a pretty short story, we weren't writing books in elementary, so it might have taken up too much of the word count, but that was certainly not how she framed the critique.
The interesting thing about that "childbearing hips" line is that I think that its repeated use in Catelyn's chapters in A Song of Ice and Fire when describing Jeyne and Roslin is actually a pretty good example of using character descriptions to tell us something about the POV character. To the point that I now immediately associate it with Catelyn when I hear it.
I totally didn't remember that anymore. Not surprising really, it's been years since I read ASoIaF. But thank you for reminding me, maybe I can remember this in the future everytime that line is mentioned somewhere and feel a little less like r/menwritingwomen is hopelessly omnipresent.
@@keeprockin69 Yes, you need to consider the character who uses that kind of language and compare it to how other female characters, in this instance, use language to illustrate other women. GRRM is said to be quite a feminist so I don't think his writing necessarily always represents his personal views. It's pretty lame to think that anyways.
@@jeffbenton6183 Each chapter in _A Song of Ice and Fire_ is written from the perspective of a specific character. How things are described (and what things will be focused on) changes depending on which character's perspective is being shown.
One of my favorite Authors is Pratchet. His way of describing the world and his characters have always been so interesting and kind of Quirky. "The wee freemen" has been a comfort book of mine since my childhood, and I adore how he describes his characters. How she wears giant boots, that she needs multiple socks on to even be able to wear, how her head seems slightly to big for her young body. She litterally has big shoes to fill and a very keen mind for her age.
I think my favourite descriptions are of Nanny Ogg & her cat Greebo, and Lady Sybil. Neither are inherently beauty woman but how they're described gives you a perfect incapitulation of who they are - Granny is that jolly old grandma who's been there, one that and absolutely get the best she can out of her life, while Sybil is practical, you don't stay alive around dragons that have a tendency to explode if you're not someone who takes their hobby seriously. As for Greebo? That cat sounds like he has a secret life you don't want to find out about.
I don't remember the passage, but I could see it working -- specifically since he seems to be comparing Young Robert with the new, Old Robert. If he said something before this like "the smell of blood/battle/sweat/etc clung to him like perfume" then it would make sense to keep it going since now he wears *actual* perfume and has gotten fat and tired.
yaaay epic gandalf. So nostalgic. I personally like the terry pratchet take on character descriptions "Some poet would probably attempt to write a description with flowery words about lucid ponds or moonlight skin but in truth she could at best be described: as handsome. So long as you didn't say it to her face." - that kind of thing.
I remember the Harry Potter books being great for fanart; characters all had a few distinct traits that got mentioned over and over so that you knew that you could draw them so other people would recognize them without explanation.
Totally! Shock of red hair and hand-me-downs = must be the Weasleys Silver hair and sharp face = Malfoy Bushy hair = Hermione Half moon glasses = Dumbledore Oily hair = Snape And of course, almond shaped eyes that look like Lily’s! Everyone who meets Harry always tell him this lol
One of my favorite things a writing teacher ever told me was to stop thinking about describing the character, but instead to establish the character. Why do we care about them, what do we need to know to know who they are. Sometimes that's physical but most of the time it's ephemeral.
Even in real life, we don't tend to notice people's physical details too much. We remember how people make us feel. We remember what makes them unique. We remember their defining features and rarely much else until we've spent enough time with them. Describe the feeling. Describe what makes them special and don't worry too much about the details.
While I'm not here to dispute your argument I think you are wrong when it comes to description, WE do actually spend a lot of time looking at others physical before we meet them like how a person dress tells you what kind of person it could be, is the person Chubby or Skinny, does it have muscles or not is it shy or outgoing We do actually spend way to much time looking at the physical before we ever meet the emotional
@@MechanicWolf85 we pay attention to clothes and their general shape, but we usually do that very quickly and don’t spend a lot of time studying them. We get a general sense of them and how they make us feel, but a lot of that happens subconsciously and isn’t voiced in our head most of the time
One of the best characters descriptions in my opinion is for Shadow in Gaiman's American Gods: "Shadow had done three years in prison. He was big enough, and looked don’t-fuck-with-me enough that his biggest problem was killing time. "
It isn't fair that Tims videos are randomly deranked in the algorithm even though he's retained the quality of his other videos. We should comment and help him out
@@MxZui right, he is also a great person overall. I remember his how I live as a youtuber video. It was so emotional I cried. He volunteers for suicidal youth
Phenomenal writing advice. Also, I appreciate the bravery of posting your own work here. Snide, sarcastic humor (while often entertaining) is so much easier than sharing something from the heart.
@@TomorrowWeLive dude Oscar Wilde was gay asf and most of his male characters are described very romantically Don't act like you know better than other people when you don't
@@DParkerNunya their comment gave me, “oh, you’re wearing **insert bands** merch? then name all their songs RIGHT NOW! you probably don’t even know their names 😤”
Very good advice. I use an iterative inside out method to flesh out my characters that I refer to as the "onion" method. I define my characters wants and needs, strengths and flaws, relationships with other characters, and with the environment, tactics to get what they want and to avoid giving what they don't want to give, etc. Then I draw and describe the character (I now use AI to generate some interesting visual ideas). Then I focus on the redefining and describing these subtextual features of the characters body, movements, clothing etc that reinforce these defining unstated characteristics. It’s iterative because I repeat the process several times until it feels right. It’s an onion skin because, with each reveal, I reveal something deeper to the core of the character. When needed in the story, I draw upon the detailed descriptions of just these features leaving the rest to the readers imagination. I don't give all the descriptions at once, only the one that is needed at that time. In that way, the complex nature of the character and their evolving character arc can be reflected in the changes in both appearance and behavior of these details and the character’s relationship to them over the course of the character arc. I find this to be useful and effective. A good example of this is Bilbo’s transformation or Frodo’s transformation. They both look, dress and act quite differently in the beginning and end of the story. Moreover, the interrelationships of these things has changed and these external changes reflect the internal changes that are occurring.
GAGAGAGAGA I just disliked my own face because I am unpretty. HOWEVER: I always like my GOOD videos however. No dislikes allowed where I come from. Don't be mean, dear uey
Is it just me or do I see you under every video I watch. Daniel Greene, Merphy Napier, Brandon Sanderson, and now Hello Future Me. You have exquisit taste in RUclipsrs.
"He sat at the bar, glancing at the man next to him, admiring the jawline and the way his dark hair hid the rest of his face. When the fashion model/bartender announced "here's your 'sex on the beach', he realized he was sitting by a mirror and he'd been cruising himself. "Time to go have pancakes", he grunted.
I think it's interesting... When I look in the mirror, I do think about how I look... How brown my eyes are, the different highlights in my hair... But it's because in the past, I nearly cried when I looked in the mirror. I hated it, because I defined my worth by how I looked... And now I do look at myself because it's not usually painful anymore.
When I look in the mirror, like when I chill after taking a shower, I wonder if my abs muscles are starting to be defined or not lol. Not that I do a lot of core exercises, but purely based on my ammount of training I do, it feels like it's gonna happen eventually. But for the moment, it's more like one big muscle mass.
Your writing at the end???? Art, truly something to be so so proud of! Thank you for making these videos they are so in depth and help so much with writing
_Long ago, all videos lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Algorithm attacked. Only the Comment Section, master of all binge watching, could stop it... but although its chaos causing skills are great, it has a lot to learn before it's ready to save anyone. But I believe the Comment Section can save Tim and Supreme Empress Momo._
I know how hard it is to share personal art, whether it's writing, paintings, sculpture, whatever. So I wanted to say thank you for sharing Tim! That was an awesome way to bring the video together ❤
Is this the first video without the Avatar? But really, I've never realized how deep the character description goes! I'm glad to hear that physical description doesn't necessarily matter much, as I never imagine the physical details of my own characters apart from a few distinctive features. In real life, I don't even remember the hair color of the people I know, even my close friends. Also I love your writing, it's nice you're feeling more comfortable sharing your work!
I had a POV protagonist who was supposed to look like a generic white man (even I didn’t know much beyond that) physically described halfway through by having some security guards argue over which Hollywood actor he looked more like. It was fun!
...that by itself wouldn't necessarily scream "white" to me. And also not generic. It would make me think of an overly muscular broad shouldered guy with very symmetrical features and probably a strong jaw and tooth-paste-commercial teeth without skin imperfections. If you said "generic white guy" I would picture someone far more average. That is really not the same to me.
@@annakilifa331 I suppose it depends on how you interpret the phrase 'Hollywood actor', because I think people have different prejudices and stereotypes. In my eyes, a 'Hollywood actor' has almost abnormally perfect-white straight teeth, and are overall very handsome or pretty, even though a lot of them do not fit that description. But I completely agree with the 'generic white man' criticism. A 'generic white man' is not at all what I picture from 'Hollywood actor'.
@@annakilifa331 I wasn't comparing him to Chris Hemsworth or anyone fitting that description. The main actors I had them argue over were Edward Norton & James MacAvoy. I suppose they do have roles they bulk up for, but by in large they're actors I know for playing the smaller guy.
… I wish I had this way back when I was 12 and new to writing. Orbs for eyes and over doing descriptions was something I learned from early 2000’s fanfic 😭
Okay, so... Small note on mirror scenes: they also work if the character thinks of themselves as particularly attractive, particularly if that's a flaw.
In mine my character has just woken up from a nightmare displaying in perfect clarity a memory from her youth, and she's searching in the reflection for any sign that the carefree, cheerful little girl she once was still exists somewhere inside her.
Or if the character feels ashamed of their appearance. For some mental illnesses I think people can spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and focusing on characteristics that they think are flaws
@@junjunjamore7735 you know you can just draw an image for the harder scenes to desrcibe or draw a comic for important scenes or fight scenes, right? It's served me well so far.
Big props to you for having the courage to post your own writing to the *internet.* Baring yourself to the void is a terrifying prospect. Great job, Tim!
Hopefully-algorithm-boosting comment! The word "algorithm" actually comes from the name of a Persian mathemetician, Al-Khwārizmī, which was then borrowed into Latin algorismus. Definitely recommend reading about the etymology on wikipedia, it's a fun time!
And this has completely changed how I write character descriptions and given me a character who little to no depth, some amazing flavor, allowing me to introduce the mains and set the scene with subtext. Thank you!!!
I love this! Thanks to your advice, this is my new character description: "He frowned at his reflection. It stared back at him. Thin, pale, with hollow emotionless eyes like an overcast sky. The blue had long been overshadowed by murky clouds that refused to let out the storm. He heaved a sigh and started running a comb through his dark hair. Father would want him to look extra formal today."
I immediately get the impression of an emotionally repressed young aristocrat, unable to live his own life due to the demands placed on him by a controlling father, probably very isolated, with few if any people he confides in. Am I close?
@@MichaelaJungheim Neat, me too. I guess I'll share mine: "He wasn’t exactly impressive now that she got a good look at him. He was obviously young, probably no older than she was, and if anything a bit shorter, with fluffy, light brown hair and freckles. He had the same small, dull eyes of all the humans she’d seen, but somehow they still managed to seem wide and nervous. He’d forgone the mail vest this time, and was now wearing an elaborately embroidered tunic. She noted the long sleeves, long enough to cover the wound she’d dealt him. It was tailored, no doubt, to fit him perfectly, but somehow it still seemed too big for him, as did the sword and dagger at his waist. *Though he can definitely use those well enough.* She thought. Despite knowing first hand that he was skilled though, looking at him now, it was hard to imagine that he could harm anyone. He seemed like a boy dressing up as a warrior and trying desperately to convince everyone he was the real thing, and, having somehow succeeded, was now completely lost as to what to do, but was too stubborn to drop the facade." (For context on the eyes comment, the current narrator is an elf, elves in my worldbuilding have larger eyes than humans on average.)
The fact that the algorigthm isn't picking this up well is honestly tragic, because this is *exactly* the video I needed. Descriptions, especially physical ones, are my nemesis, and this video helps so much with that. Praise be to Supreme Empress Momo and her minion Tim!
I had to learn this on my own over two decades of writing, and this is honestly I don't think a better analysis could be made on writing character descriptions than this...
And with just that, Pratchett set us up to know the creepiest character in Discworld, Mr. Te-ah-tim-eh. Some of Sir Terry best description aren't even about the physical aspect of something, but the feelings and reaction it has on the characters. It's amazing. 🥰
Agreed. Character descriptions are not just what a character looks like but how they are perceived by others and those around them. They can also play in a character's personality. A smile is just a smile until described as being impish or devilish.
The whiplash effect is always fun. Jade City has some great characters but hearing about one being this scary mastermind before meeting her and discovering she's still human REALLY makes her scary.
I like to come back to this video to contextualize my writing. I fall into patterns of description that leave me wanting more when I go back and reread them. After watching this one I often find my descriptions being much more vivid and thought provoking. Absolutely love your work!!! Keep it up!
One technique I like is describing what a character wears, rather than their body. People are born with their body, but they choose their cloths. The character who always wears pressed khakis is probably as little in common with the character wearing worn jeans. Add in the setting, such as a a job interview or a camping trip, and these decisions become much more pronounced.
@@stehplatzb.4310 Depends on which characters you're describing - if it's the pov character it could be because their clothes got caught on something, they noticed a stain or a tear, otherwise it could be because they notice the other person's clothes are peculiar for the area, they really stand out ect.
@@MxZui that's awesome. I would notice and think about my clothes if someone spilled something on it. Like imagine this "my sister spilled her tea on my favorite pink hoodie, at least my jeans were saved"
@@reactorx7861 It's called being a patreon. If you want to support the channel and get some neat bonuses like watching videos early, getting access to 268 exclusive posts, and have access to a patreon-only Discord, become a patreon today.
One of the best pieces of advice of seen for creative endeavours is to "fail faster". Most everyone embarking on a new project is going to find some things that work and more things that don't, but the trick is to not get discouraged and keep putting the work in. You will discover your way of creating along the way. Just don't listen to the voice that tries to tell you that failure is something you are rather than something you can learn and grow from. I haven't created anything beyond the daydreams in my head for fear of failure and the worlds harsh judgement. Even if you're the only one who will ever see it, hear it, taste, smell or touch it, take some time to nurture your creativity.
I think that's really good advice. We are all our own worst critic, and that can scare us out of trying. We need an inner cheerleader, too, telling us it's okay to try and fail. Or even to consider the attempt a success even if it isn't perfect.
My attempt at my first ever character description based on your knowledge. I grew impatient, wondering if anyone had made it at all. Only a few seconds later the door In front of me begins to open. I straightened up as I see them come in. You would think we were a dying breed, given how few of them survived-only two out of a hundred. As they approached us, it was impossible not to notice a faint smile on both their faces, as if it were easy for them, as if they enjoyed it. But, I could tell they struggled; they were covered in blue and black from all the beatings. Their clothes were barely holding together, covered in a mixture of dry and fresh mud. I could tell they were sisters; they looked identical. I’m not a writer, but I gave it a shot.
Every time I look into mirror I check what colour my eyes decided to be this time. If my ID is to be believed I have blue eyes. But some days they are light grey. Some days dark grey. Can be in many shades of blue. Sometimes green. So for me it's pretty normal to look at myself in the mirror and say: oh, yes. We're back to being our usual blue selfs, aren't we now?
I had to pause when Tim started talking about how people don't mentally describe themselves while looking in the mirror. It kinda made me take a step back because i realized I DO do that, to an extent. I'll look in the mirror and try to memorize my own face because for some reason I can't mentally picture myself or remember my own face... Idk I know that its not normally but hearing him point it out in context of writing is just jarring to me. Anyways, amazing video! I'm definitely gonna share to help some of my fellow writers with you advice!
As someone who's very visually-minded and detailed oriented, I can't thank you enough for this! It's incredibly helpful to have some tangible points like this to look to when I can't decide what features to focus on.
I know he didn’t go in-depth into but I have always loved “the rest of us just live her” it’s a wonderful book about how the main characters never pay attention to the regular people and how they think no one noticed them hit in actuality everyone know they are the chosen one and just want them to hurry up and save the world so they can get back to living.
"the perfect immitation of a smile" oof. That's good. I feel like harry's eyes are also worth mentioning in the description, since it later becomes relevant as well.
@@noahgoins4133 Your salutation has been received and filed according to standard process. The like is appreciated, and due to that a reciprocal appreciation has been sent to you. Good day.
To me, character description has always been the same in writing as it is in art. You start with gesture sketches, silhouettes that capture the movement, shape, and the very distinct features first. You grab the essence, quick and simple, just enough to catch the life in a subject. Then, once you've got those things squared away, you can fill in the details later if you want to. Learning how to do that with words, the actual *how to* and not just the general theory, is much harder, and I think you brought a swath of great examples! This video was super informative, thank you! And your writing is gorgeous, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I always thought this was something Rowling did so well. I know the HP series is overly discussed, but it’s hard to talk about character descriptions without mentioning her.
@@hannahg5407 oh yeah, the whole thing, while an amazing story full a magic, is absolute trope central. You got magic orphan kid with magic mark who has humble beginnings and has to fight an evil big bad with the help of a wise old mentor.
This entire video is incredibly important for any writer, aspiring or well entrenched. It's valuable to look through old work and see how you've described your characters. It tells you what you thought was important to focus on, but also gives you an idea of how you shape your sentence structure and how to fine-tune it.
On worrying about people seeing your writing. I can’t speak for everyone but the sole fact that you are writing will be impressive to most of us. I’ve been trying to write for a year now that I’m out of college and it just...won’t come out easily. So don’t worry about it. What you’re doing is impressive enough
I made a promise to myself I wouldn't buy a book from a male writer until I have equal amount of books from men and women. This was after discovering I had about 30 books from women and 300 from men. Anyways, Tim is the exception. I'm gonna buy his book. First from a male writer in 2 years
![On Writing: Killing Characters! [ Harry Potter | Stephen King | Terabithia ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/treB4kuyMHk/mqdefault.jpg)
So this video is kind of dying right now, which sucks because I worked really hard on it. So comments and likes and shares really do help the algorithm! If you want to see more of these more technique focused videos and access the extra description analysis, you can at www.patreon.com/posts/50323669 I know I blabber on about patreon, but it really does let me do better content without worrying about views as much. So thank you
~ Tim and Supreme Empress Momo
We support Supreme Empress Momo.
Is the hips description a reference to a specific work?
Sadly, mine fit that category, and I'm constantly looking for ways to get rid of more centimeters.
Hi Tim! I'm sorry if you don't want it, but I want to give you my quick thoughts on your own description:
I liked the description of Alice, especially the comparrions to wood and particular driftwood (I've never heard anyone describe skin like that before) - it's very visual and both beautiful to me (who likes the ocean and driftwood) and yet then tragic, because it's her skin that's shaped like that. The "battle-scar" wording seems a bit too dramatic to me though, but maybe it isn't overdramatic in the context of the story and conflict. But yea, really liked it.
Thank you for all your work and videos. I wish you the best of luck with your writing!
Remember, write for yourself and your own enjoyment - try to not get let down by what everyone else (including me) judges.
Tim, given the spectacular array of RUclipsrs who lent their voices includes a number who focus on scripts and movies, do you know if any intend to address this subject for screenplays?
it hurts to know that using "orbs" to describe eyes have now been replaced by "curvaceous hips ready for childbearing" because it will now forever prance around my nightmares
The use of 'prance' creates an image I would rather forget but I admire your wordsmithing prowess
@@tripwire202 actually same i just cant be bothered anymore lmao
Same. I have no idea why eyes being roughly spheroid is something authors feel they need to draw attention to. Thought if the were popped out of a socket I'd make an exception, as at least then the shape would be more relevant to what's going on in the scene.
@@morganrobinson8042 In my opinion, when the author describes eyes as orbs, I picture them with marbles for eyes
@@kyngdor2049 I have a feeling I will too, now... Thanks for that! 😜
‘Her eyes held the marks of exhaustion after reading a litany of 50 shades inspired novels’
Truly great video here
Lmao, reading 365 Days (or whatever the book is called,) are you?
My goodness I hope it doesn't drive you too insane, I wish you the best of luck, and sanity with that one.
I love your vids btw ❤️
After reading that I just thought
"Her eyes held the marks of exhaustion after reading 50 shades of smutty novels"
Tim says this video isn't doing well, so we all need to comment and help it in the algorithm.
Omgoodness I love your videos
hey amanda!
Though he forced a smile, Tim's lip quaked behind his scrappy whiskers as he spoke of sharing his writing with the internet. But then his round puppy-dog eyes turned to look at us, his adoring fans, the brown so deep we could fall through them right into his Patreon account.
Cool character description!
Interesting. I can’t wait to read more about this character!
ROFLMAO! So true!
I laughed so much at this
Omfg I cringed with uncomfortable amusement
You're just ragging on the curvaceous hips thing because you have them. Don't be salty.
-Benji
Oh hi! Didn't expect you here.
Oh Tale Foundry, you know it's pronounced Tee-ah-tim-eh.
Hahaha
r/menwritingwomen
"She had a glare on her that could only have come from countless hours in a staring contest with her own reflection. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she won a few of them"
The ones lost are pretty interesting
That is one good discription. Where is it from?
@@stehplatzb.4310 Oh that's just a simple matter of physics, the light reflecting off of your face travels to the mirror and forms an image there and then said light is reflected off the mirror and is processed by your eyes. Ergo you will always blink before your reflection.
Admittedly though it would be measured in nano seconds which only people in very specific fields of study in very specific circumstances care about
@@oliverschoneck7750 cheers, it's a excerpt from a story I'm working on. I wanted to highlight her indomitable will/stubbornness, oh and also her temper
@@firestorm165 It also sounds as though she struggles with herself a lot. Like she forces herself to do things out of sheer will.
An addition to the Hunger Games description: Suzanne Collins does point out that Katniss originally had an „olive“ skin tone because she was comparing herself to her mother and Prim who had light skin and blond hair, but the description served as a way of showing that the inhabitants of the Seams, the poor part of the District, were physically distinguishable from the more wealthy merchants. It’s used to not only show that katniss‘s mother must’ve loved her father a lot to leave the little wealth she had behind and drives home the point of beauty being inherently linked with wealth which is a theme explored in the trilogy. From that point on Katniss’s looks are described in greater detail when she has to be in front of cameras, highlighting the point Suzanne Collins was making about the image of a person within propaganda and how looks and styling determine the perception the people of Panem have of first the Hunger Games and then the Rebellion. So while there are a lot more descriptions of katniss than the braid alone, they all serve a purpose both character-wise and to further the underlying message of the story.
Thank you for coming to my TED-talk lmao.
To bad it flew right over the head of the target demographic.
We need a story of her father and mother 😭 that little exposition is so cute.
@@egggge4752 yeah I was kind of young when the book came out but I could compare myself to Katniss and I didn’t see myself in her because I was a scary kid and I was darker than her (I’m black) and plus as I got older I noticed my breasts growing and my butt growing and I thought well I don’t look my heroes in any book I’ve ever read
Tim says this video isn't doing well, so we all need to comment and help it in the algorithm.
YESSIR
Ow the algorithm. ...
I'm doing the bare minimum
For the algorithm! For TIM!
obv 😏
I was hoping I'd find out what cooking one's own cancers means in context XD
Same! I will just have to stick with my guess that it has something to do with sci-fi technology...
What a nice surprise to hear your voice in this Video!!
My guess it has something to do with crabs. Lol
Me, hearing Dominic Noble's voice in this video as I'm cleaning my kitchen:
My inner monologue, complete with the proper voice: "My goodness, The Dom, what are /you/ doing here?"
I may have watched too much RUclips recently... lol
omg the video i watched before this one was one of yours!!
“They say she cooked her own cancers for people that crossed her”
Is SUCH a vividly and effectively horrifying bit of imagery. Like it’s great writing because it’s so terrifying.
So... she cooked some crabs?
@@jackson3475Great 👍
Dies*
I'm sorry I don't understand what that means... Could you explain?
@@Georgia-p6xI don't quite grasp it either but I think it means she would literally create a disease specifically for a person she disliked and infect them with it.
The Divergent scene actually makes sense. I mean, you'll probably be appraising every aspect of yourself if you only looked in a mirror once a year.
It also shows what little things can be a luxury in a tightly controlled world.
yeah, I think Divergent is a good example of that trope, the mirror reflects an incredibly important part of her culture. Divergent was an interesting book because it promised an exploration of what it meant for a society to live by one core value and what it meant to not fit into that.
Of course the end of the book ruins all of it by throwing it all out of the window in favour of rebelling against authority many times over but it was a nice premise.
Yes, but it's still lazy, uninspired writing. I'm sure the author didn't make up that reasoning, she just didn't want to put in the effort. I remember her announcing proudly she wrote Divergent in three weeks, which... yeah that explains a lot.
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I really hate divergent but I’ll give it that.
I don't know, it feels to me like the opposite should be true. For instance, an actual method for coping with body dismorphia is getting rid of all full body mirrors. Seeing yourself in a mirror more often makes you more aware of your looks. Only seeing yourself in a mirror once a year should make you less concerned with how you look it seems to me
He did it, guys! He really did it! An entire video without mentioning ATLA!!
I didn't realize that till you mentioned it, that's amazing!
Wow he must hate Avatar :(
So *that's* why youtube killed this video
My Gd he’s been replaced! It’s happening guys the body-snatchers are here!
You forgot Momo our lord and savior!!!
"People don't do that"
*me looking away from the mirror I was just staring into deeply* I mean . . .
I feel seen.
Poor choice of words.
Yeah, I may have been fascinated by the fact my eyes are blue-hazel in middle school. I relate.
Sooo I’m not the only one here that describes themselves in the mirror? No? Still just me? Ok...
@@dewmilk7266 Love your thumbnail pic, Demi here, love for the Ace spectrum.
@@HeraldHealer :D thank you!
The greatest inspiration for character descriptions is "My Immortal" of course.
And the handling of mental illness
"I cut myself a bit because I was feeling depressed and drank some blood"
As in the song?
@@ricardozk no the fanfiction
Honestly some (a few) of the descriptions in my immortal fucked
Or make you afraid to describe characters at all...
Tim: You could say... character descriptions are complicated.
*Ah, yes, I missed this.*
BABBADADADADUMM
You might say, if it was good, A WIZARD DID IT!
I don’t get it 😅
Deus vault-- oh sorry, wrong one
@@p.yofori5313 Tim used to say these things a lot. For example, never explain something saying it worked because 'A Wizard Did It', and then there'd be a GIF of Gandalf dancing. And at the beginning, before uncomplicationg certain topics, he'd say "-topic x- IS COMPLICATED".
Maybe not the best character description but I can't forget Murakami's way of describing one of his character in 1Q84: "His smile is the kind you would find in the back of a drawer" :"D
maybe not literally descriptive but the vibe speaks a thousand physical characteristics
Paints the mental image of a smile that is rare and surprises you- in an amusing way- when you see it.
@@zippyparakeet1074 And possibly also a little dishevelled
Now if you'll excuse me I have to rewrite every character description in my novel.
Same
Literally just opened the document for this
Lol, I feel you.
now if you'll excuse me i have to rewrite my entire novel
You too huh.
Show that gatsby passage to someone who's never read it and they'll tell you it's the description of the hero in a romance novel
By design, I think :)
@@Snowshowslow yeah lol... carraway more like carragay
@@voidify3 Haha ^^
You can totally see Gatsby as the hero in a romance novel.
I mean, it kind of is.
Every day I randomly look in the mirror and go "i mean maybe these curvaceous hips are ready for childbearing"
As anyone with hips will do, obviously
The Curvaceous hips are the most awkward and most hilarious descriptor ever especially during the first example where the intensity is gradually increased through your expression and tone. Great joke and definitely one of my favorite videos
Where does that cringe sentence comes from? I'm curious lol
@@pougetguillaume4632 Same.
@@pougetguillaume4632 I think Hemingway wrote it in one of his short stories? Not sure though.
Edit: The art of racing in the rain by Garth Stein, going off of r/menwritingwomen.
Gonna be honest, gross as it sounds, I kind of like that hips-ready-for-childbearing-descriptor - at least in certain contexts. It tells you that the PoV character does not respect women at all, etc. while also giving you a vivid picture of the woman, all while wrapping it in a nicely disgusting sentence that you're not likely to forget.
@@karlzone2, let me ask you something tricky here. Does the lip description of that nameless guy shows the reader that the PoV character "does not respect" men? Is any sexually suggestive/sensual description "disgusting" in your perspective? Or only those that express heterosexual point of view of a male character, perhaps?
There may be a day I don't giggle in glee every time the "a wizard did it" Gandalf shows up, but it is NOT THIS DAY!!!
Not today
I wish Graham was here too. He had the best character description. He likes cats. That's like, all I need to know about someone
Agreed!
Sometimes even songs have excellent character descriptions:
"she moves like she don't care...smooth as silk, cool as air..oooh, it makes you wanna cry"
That's poetry
May I add: "It's chemical warfare, red lips and television eyewear, raspberry soda hair"
I know it's a bit obvious, but
"Your beauty is beyond compare
With flaming locks of auburn hair
With ivory skin and eyes of emerald green
Your smile is like a breath of spring
Your voice is soft like summer rain
And I cannot compete with you, Jolene"
I personally believe poetry has moved back to music, where, to be honest, it was always most at home.
I heard someone describe brown eyes as “Honey and Whisky; sweet intoxication.”
„apple bottom jeans, boots with the fur“ and „them baggy sweat pants and the reebok with the straps“ are my favourite lyrical piece.
If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards' - Terry Pratchett
An amazing way to show that a character is prone to misfortune and bad decisions.
Pratchett was a class apart in his ability to take something abstract and make it feel grounded.
@@Jasonwolf1495 He was phenomenal. Immensely talented and incredibly astute.
*GNU Terry Pratchett*
Rincewind?
@@handhelder823 rincewind describing twoflower
@@Cheesusful ooohhh, i completely forgot about that wonderful tourist.
not only 2minutes in and every FanFiction writer has tears in their narrowed chocolate eyes, that normally would sparkle with hope of being heard by a Video like that.
As one of those “hair description, eye color” fanfic authors, I felt very called out.
@@Tustin2121 I know. I still think it is one of the best tropes from Fanfictions. Keeps my heart warm :-D
I do it all the time!
You forgot the Single Tear ;P
Bonus points if your character is described as having chocolate eyes in an era/region where chocolate wasn't even introduced yet.
I'm sitting back in my chair, feet propped on my desk, staring at the screen; hoping for the sweet rush of inspiration.
I undo my pony tail, just to do something anything with weirdly shaped hands.
I stare are the screen and think how I often feel called out for being a fanfiction writer; however, the reviews I receive of people thanking me for writing stories that help through their tough times.
Escapism.
I know this all too well. A small part of my even smaller body is happy that someone has found comfort in my words.
Maybe, the saying is true. The reason my eyes and hair are brown is because I am full of sh*t
Bonus points if the writer describes it as a birth defect
Question, is the “main character looks in a mirror and describes themselves” trope *always* bad? Because that’s how I’m introducing my character in a story of mine-but I feel like it’s fitting for him. One of his main focuses is his reputation and how others perceive him, and he’s just moved to a completely foreign land. In my mind, it makes sense for him to examine himself in the mirror. So I guess what I mean to say is,
Can it still be done well and in a non-cliche way if it fits the character?
Edit: also, I look at myself in the mirror and study my appearance, too, so it’s not *too* abnormal, right?
Sounds fine if you're actually connecting his description to that context in some way.
You could also have him repeat that action a couple of times throughout the narrative. Show that it's a characteristic habit and not just a one-off thing.
It's strange if you just name the features. And it's not the same if you study them, thinking of reaction from other people
@@nah6024 thanks, that’s really helpful advice!
@@weirdmeat5271 Nicely put, that makes sense-thanks!
It can absolutely be fine. But what you have to keep in mind when you compare it to how you study/check yourself in a mirror (like many people regularely do), is HOW you think of yourself. You probably don't look in a mirror and think "I have short hair", but go over a number of features you personally care about, or think about them in how they've been changing. "I should get a haircut soon, my hair looks messy if I don't keep it short."
Not that I have any experience in writing character descriptions, but I'd say in your scenario it would be fitting to establish is as a sort of routine. In the vein of "Like every morning before leaving the house, he took a minute to check himself over." Additionally, framing it about his desire/worries over how he's perceived. E.g. Making sure his beard is at a length that doesn't look unkempt. Checking how his shirt compliments his noticeable biceps. Being satisfied that the green on his eyes doesn't have attention drawn away by dark circles under his eyes.
Turn the "protagonist looking at themselves in the mirror for no reason on it's head" by having it show their vanity or insecurity. Describe how this is a normal occurrence for them, whether they're fixated on some single minor flaw or describing how gorgeous they think their eyes are, that's one way to do it.
I can already picture my MC measuring himself for the eighth time this week and seeing that yes, he's still short.
@kawaiifables Your writing teacher doesn't sound great. Nothing should be universally forbidden in writing. Just because mirrors are frequently misused doesn't mean they can't be used right.
@@zoro115-s6b what do you mean that sounds spot on or i just have very bad luck
A character should never be introduced doing something abnormal to them (unless their role in the story involves that abnormality, e.g. someone being forced to work for a system they hate). If you think you need to have them do something out of character to introduce them properly, you need to either think more outside the box or write a different character.
@kawaiifables My elementary school teacher gave me poor marks for having an introduction unrelated to the main plot, when I got that from the Hardy Boys. And as far as I can remember, I feel I did a pretty good job with that one too, establishing traits I thought were important.
It was a pretty short story, we weren't writing books in elementary, so it might have taken up too much of the word count, but that was certainly not how she framed the critique.
The interesting thing about that "childbearing hips" line is that I think that its repeated use in Catelyn's chapters in A Song of Ice and Fire when describing Jeyne and Roslin is actually a pretty good example of using character descriptions to tell us something about the POV character. To the point that I now immediately associate it with Catelyn when I hear it.
All I associate with the phrase is "men who haven't developed a string relationship with any female ever in his entire life"
Wait, that line is from a real book?
(I haven't read 'Ice and Fire' or any of the Game of Thrones books, so I wouldn't know)
I totally didn't remember that anymore. Not surprising really, it's been years since I read ASoIaF. But thank you for reminding me, maybe I can remember this in the future everytime that line is mentioned somewhere and feel a little less like r/menwritingwomen is hopelessly omnipresent.
@@keeprockin69 Yes, you need to consider the character who uses that kind of language and compare it to how other female characters, in this instance, use language to illustrate other women. GRRM is said to be quite a feminist so I don't think his writing necessarily always represents his personal views. It's pretty lame to think that anyways.
@@jeffbenton6183 Each chapter in _A Song of Ice and Fire_ is written from the perspective of a specific character. How things are described (and what things will be focused on) changes depending on which character's perspective is being shown.
One of my favorite Authors is Pratchet. His way of describing the world and his characters have always been so interesting and kind of Quirky. "The wee freemen" has been a comfort book of mine since my childhood, and I adore how he describes his characters. How she wears giant boots, that she needs multiple socks on to even be able to wear, how her head seems slightly to big for her young body. She litterally has big shoes to fill and a very keen mind for her age.
We lost track of the number of repeats on this series in my house❤
I think my favourite descriptions are of Nanny Ogg & her cat Greebo, and Lady Sybil. Neither are inherently beauty woman but how they're described gives you a perfect incapitulation of who they are - Granny is that jolly old grandma who's been there, one that and absolutely get the best she can out of her life, while Sybil is practical, you don't stay alive around dragons that have a tendency to explode if you're not someone who takes their hobby seriously.
As for Greebo? That cat sounds like he has a secret life you don't want to find out about.
@@meikahidenori "Lady Sybil's bossom rose and fell like an empire" has always stayed with me. She's big and she's MAJESTIC
@@MissRedLu Thank you, 9-months-ago-you, for reminding me of this brilliant line that I can't believe I forgot
Everyone's character descriptions sound so poetic and symbiotic. Meanwhile my character is described as a Dollar Store Deebo...
But hei, it works, i can already imagine your character
Don't worry, I'm sure it doesn't suck as much as mine
thats so damn great im diggin it
@@DeadRattle4444 prove it
Dollar Store Deebo may not be poetic but it's clear.
"The smell of perfume clung to him like perfume"
- A better example of George R.R. Martin's character description
I don't remember the passage, but I could see it working -- specifically since he seems to be comparing Young Robert with the new, Old Robert. If he said something before this like "the smell of blood/battle/sweat/etc clung to him like perfume" then it would make sense to keep it going since now he wears *actual* perfume and has gotten fat and tired.
😂
But he can describe the hell out of food.
I know this is a bait for grrm fans but hear me out
@@unnamedenemy9 I’m pretty sure that is the case, it even says «now», so he’s comparing the Robert he knew to the Robert he sees now.
yaaay epic gandalf. So nostalgic. I personally like the terry pratchet take on character descriptions "Some poet would probably attempt to write a description with flowery words about lucid ponds or moonlight skin but in truth she could at best be described: as handsome. So long as you didn't say it to her face." - that kind of thing.
I remember the Harry Potter books being great for fanart; characters all had a few distinct traits that got mentioned over and over so that you knew that you could draw them so other people would recognize them without explanation.
The discriptions were all so animated it was almost difficult to imagine them as actual people instead of cartoon characters.
I always remember how Dumbledoor says things calmly.
Totally!
Shock of red hair and hand-me-downs = must be the Weasleys
Silver hair and sharp face = Malfoy
Bushy hair = Hermione
Half moon glasses = Dumbledore
Oily hair = Snape
And of course, almond shaped eyes that look like Lily’s! Everyone who meets Harry always tell him this lol
One of my favorite things a writing teacher ever told me was to stop thinking about describing the character, but instead to establish the character. Why do we care about them, what do we need to know to know who they are. Sometimes that's physical but most of the time it's ephemeral.
can i say how much I love that line "a giant shorter than me"
You get such a good picture of Mystery Tim Character from it!
Even in real life, we don't tend to notice people's physical details too much. We remember how people make us feel. We remember what makes them unique. We remember their defining features and rarely much else until we've spent enough time with them. Describe the feeling. Describe what makes them special and don't worry too much about the details.
That's so true. I remember my one friend as constantly smiling another one is energetic etc etc
CAN I COPY THIS INTO THE HADER OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY DRAFTS PLEASE?
@@lefromage2001 go for it!
While I'm not here to dispute your argument
I think you are wrong when it comes to description, WE do actually spend a lot of time looking at others physical before we meet them like how a person dress tells you what kind of person it could be, is the person Chubby or Skinny, does it have muscles or not is it shy or outgoing
We do actually spend way to much time looking at the physical before we ever meet the emotional
@@MechanicWolf85 we pay attention to clothes and their general shape, but we usually do that very quickly and don’t spend a lot of time studying them. We get a general sense of them and how they make us feel, but a lot of that happens subconsciously and isn’t voiced in our head most of the time
One of the best characters descriptions in my opinion is for Shadow in Gaiman's American Gods:
"Shadow had done three years in prison. He was big enough, and looked don’t-fuck-with-me enough that his biggest problem was killing time. "
Admirably succinct 👌
I've never had a character aggressively described at me before
Thanks for that
The child bearing hips line was hilarious though
Truly how all women should be described
I almost choked from laughter at the child-bearing hips part. That was too good
She could pump out children like an assembly line
Idk why, but I read it as "His hips...", and now I want to read a novel where this is said lol
saaaaaame
@@snakearekat2634 g
That's from wheel of time
It isn't fair that Tims videos are randomly deranked in the algorithm even though he's retained the quality of his other videos. We should comment and help him out
I'm interacting with as many comments as I can. So people might answer too.
Yeah he's honestly one of the best writing channels I've found on yt
@@MxZui right, he is also a great person overall. I remember his how I live as a youtuber video. It was so emotional I cried. He volunteers for suicidal youth
Insert comment here. But seriously, this guy is awesome and I'm happy to support him!
@@stehplatzb.4310 heyyy
"like a limp or an eyepatch" for some reason mad-eye moody immediately sprung to mind
Double score on both counts!
"And maybe, at the end of the video, I'll even show you some of my writing..."
The look on your face was SO RELATABLE. Exactly how I feel EVERY. TIME.
I feel terrible when he gets like that. Wish I could help. I guess I'll buy the book to show that its good
How does he make these great videos
A WIZARD DID IT
Timothy is secretly an immortal wizard confirmed
Grahm should get paid more.
Blessed by divine cats.
Its actually the cats who create the videos, ratatouille style
Phenomenal writing advice. Also, I appreciate the bravery of posting your own work here. Snide, sarcastic humor (while often entertaining) is so much easier than sharing something from the heart.
Also, I hope this gets more views. The algorithm is a cruel mistress and does not necessarily favor quality.
It’s so hard to not sound obnoxious when writing character descriptions.
Ok, but Oscar Wilde describing his male characters vs his female characters will always be funny to me
@@TomorrowWeLive dude Oscar Wilde was gay asf and most of his male characters are described very romantically
Don't act like you know better than other people when you don't
@@TomorrowWeLive Wtf is up with the random aggression? They made a point that isn't entirely new or wrong, and without mentioning sexuality at all.
@@DParkerNunya their comment gave me, “oh, you’re wearing **insert bands** merch? then name all their songs RIGHT NOW! you probably don’t even know their names 😤”
@@tuopsy right???
@@lalaliet He was literally arrested for sodomy too
Very good advice. I use an iterative inside out method to flesh out my characters that I refer to as the "onion" method. I define my characters wants and needs, strengths and flaws, relationships with other characters, and with the environment, tactics to get what they want and to avoid giving what they don't want to give, etc. Then I draw and describe the character (I now use AI to generate some interesting visual ideas). Then I focus on the redefining and describing these subtextual features of the characters body, movements, clothing etc that reinforce these defining unstated characteristics. It’s iterative because I repeat the process several times until it feels right. It’s an onion skin because, with each reveal, I reveal something deeper to the core of the character. When needed in the story, I draw upon the detailed descriptions of just these features leaving the rest to the readers imagination. I don't give all the descriptions at once, only the one that is needed at that time. In that way, the complex nature of the character and their evolving character arc can be reflected in the changes in both appearance and behavior of these details and the character’s relationship to them over the course of the character arc. I find this to be useful and effective. A good example of this is Bilbo’s transformation or Frodo’s transformation. They both look, dress and act quite differently in the beginning and end of the story. Moreover, the interrelationships of these things has changed and these external changes reflect the internal changes that are occurring.
Is it just me or have we not seen the Gandalf dance in a while? I missed it!
GAGAGAGAGA I just disliked my own face because I am unpretty. HOWEVER: I always like my GOOD videos however. No dislikes allowed where I come from. Don't be mean, dear uey
Is it just me or do I see you under every video I watch. Daniel Greene, Merphy Napier, Brandon Sanderson, and now Hello Future Me. You have exquisit taste in RUclipsrs.
We haven’t
What tune is that to?
It for sure has been a bit. Also a while for some of the guest contributors like Lessons From A Screenplay.
That r/menwritingwomen gag was absolutely gorgeous
"He sat at the bar, glancing at the man next to him, admiring the jawline and the way his dark hair hid the rest of his face. When the fashion model/bartender announced "here's your 'sex on the beach', he realized he was sitting by a mirror and he'd been cruising himself. "Time to go have pancakes", he grunted.
the only way to write a mirror scene
I think it's interesting... When I look in the mirror, I do think about how I look... How brown my eyes are, the different highlights in my hair... But it's because in the past, I nearly cried when I looked in the mirror. I hated it, because I defined my worth by how I looked... And now I do look at myself because it's not usually painful anymore.
Good for you getting past something like that.
@@aranavenger Thank you!
When I look in the mirror, like when I chill after taking a shower, I wonder if my abs muscles are starting to be defined or not lol. Not that I do a lot of core exercises, but purely based on my ammount of training I do, it feels like it's gonna happen eventually. But for the moment, it's more like one big muscle mass.
I'm a simple gal. I see a notification for a new Hello Future Me video, I click.
Your writing at the end???? Art, truly something to be so so proud of! Thank you for making these videos they are so in depth and help so much with writing
_Long ago, all videos lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Algorithm attacked. Only the Comment Section, master of all binge watching, could stop it... but although its chaos causing skills are great, it has a lot to learn before it's ready to save anyone. But I believe the Comment Section can save Tim and Supreme Empress Momo._
amazing... just amazing
Truly, a work of art
Well put😂
deserves a standing ovation
amen
your writing style is eloquent, fluid and visually-evocative...... you are clearly a writer skilled at painting a picture with your words
He forgot the hips tho
I know how hard it is to share personal art, whether it's writing, paintings, sculpture, whatever. So I wanted to say thank you for sharing Tim! That was an awesome way to bring the video together ❤
Is this the first video without the Avatar?
But really, I've never realized how deep the character description goes! I'm glad to hear that physical description doesn't necessarily matter much, as I never imagine the physical details of my own characters apart from a few distinctive features. In real life, I don't even remember the hair color of the people I know, even my close friends.
Also I love your writing, it's nice you're feeling more comfortable sharing your work!
Well it would be pretty hard to talk about a TV show where you can literally see the characters in a video about writing character descriptions
@@HeadCannon19 The best way of describing characters: draw them.
I think tim tried at some point to not refer to avatar. There were a couple videos before he gave up
I had a POV protagonist who was supposed to look like a generic white man (even I didn’t know much beyond that) physically described halfway through by having some security guards argue over which Hollywood actor he looked more like. It was fun!
...that by itself wouldn't necessarily scream "white" to me. And also not generic. It would make me think of an overly muscular broad shouldered guy with very symmetrical features and probably a strong jaw and tooth-paste-commercial teeth without skin imperfections. If you said "generic white guy" I would picture someone far more average. That is really not the same to me.
@@annakilifa331 I suppose it depends on how you interpret the phrase 'Hollywood actor', because I think people have different prejudices and stereotypes. In my eyes, a 'Hollywood actor' has almost abnormally perfect-white straight teeth, and are overall very handsome or pretty, even though a lot of them do not fit that description.
But I completely agree with the 'generic white man' criticism. A 'generic white man' is not at all what I picture from 'Hollywood actor'.
That’s clever!
That will make your book age very fast, not to mention alienate international audiences. Not a good idea.
@@annakilifa331 I wasn't comparing him to Chris Hemsworth or anyone fitting that description. The main actors I had them argue over were Edward Norton & James MacAvoy. I suppose they do have roles they bulk up for, but by in large they're actors I know for playing the smaller guy.
… I wish I had this way back when I was 12 and new to writing. Orbs for eyes and over doing descriptions was something I learned from early 2000’s fanfic 😭
Luckily I've never read a fan fiction as I see them as strange
@@Stickman_Productionsyour lucky
@@Stickman_Productions Aw, cause some of them have good ass writers!
@@Stickman_Productions your loss
Okay, so... Small note on mirror scenes: they also work if the character thinks of themselves as particularly attractive, particularly if that's a flaw.
In mine my character has just woken up from a nightmare displaying in perfect clarity a memory from her youth, and she's searching in the reflection for any sign that the carefree, cheerful little girl she once was still exists somewhere inside her.
Also dressing the character in unusual clothes and then explaining how its different than their usual getup
Or if the character feels ashamed of their appearance. For some mental illnesses I think people can spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and focusing on characteristics that they think are flaws
@@RowanArk but if the characteristics are truly memorable and only important for the character then it didnt help me visualize them
My characters dresses up as different people because he doesnt like himself. We learn What he looks like by finding out What he is not.
Well, it worked. The algorithm dropped this into my recommended and it’s a bangin’ video
The best way to write character descriptions and fight scenes is to just draw a comic.
-An Artist
Yeah, I like reading but Avatar wouldn't have been the same as a purely written medium.
@@junjunjamore7735 you know you can just draw an image for the harder scenes to desrcibe or draw a comic for important scenes or fight scenes, right? It's served me well so far.
Issue: I have no artistic talent.
Big props to you for having the courage to post your own writing to the *internet.*
Baring yourself to the void is a terrifying prospect. Great job, Tim!
I think showing how you specifically applied the lessons was a great decision. Really helped drive home your points and show exactly what you meant.
Hopefully-algorithm-boosting comment! The word "algorithm" actually comes from the name of a Persian mathemetician, Al-Khwārizmī, which was then borrowed into Latin algorismus. Definitely recommend reading about the etymology on wikipedia, it's a fun time!
2:00
God damn, Dom really needs to make audiobooks.
And this has completely changed how I write character descriptions and given me a character who little to no depth, some amazing flavor, allowing me to introduce the mains and set the scene with subtext. Thank you!!!
It's really cool that I recognize most of the readers in this video
Dom is one of my favorite youtubers and I didn't even recognize his
The r/menwritingwomen too?damn they are terrible
I love this! Thanks to your advice, this is my new character description: "He frowned at his reflection. It stared back at him. Thin, pale, with hollow emotionless eyes like an overcast sky. The blue had long been overshadowed by murky clouds that refused to let out the storm. He heaved a sigh and started running a comb through his dark hair. Father would want him to look extra formal today."
I immediately get the impression of an emotionally repressed young aristocrat, unable to live his own life due to the demands placed on him by a controlling father, probably very isolated, with few if any people he confides in. Am I close?
This is great :-) Keep it up!
OOooh very nice!
@@zoro115-s6b Young prince, actually, but yeah
@@MichaelaJungheim Neat, me too. I guess I'll share mine:
"He wasn’t exactly impressive now that she got a good look at him. He was obviously young, probably no older than she was, and if anything a bit shorter, with fluffy, light brown hair and freckles. He had the same small, dull eyes of all the humans she’d seen, but somehow they still managed to seem wide and nervous. He’d forgone the mail vest this time, and was now wearing an elaborately embroidered tunic. She noted the long sleeves, long enough to cover the wound she’d dealt him. It was tailored, no doubt, to fit him perfectly, but somehow it still seemed too big for him, as did the sword and dagger at his waist.
*Though he can definitely use those well enough.* She thought. Despite knowing first hand that he was skilled though, looking at him now, it was hard to imagine that he could harm anyone.
He seemed like a boy dressing up as a warrior and trying desperately to convince everyone he was the real thing, and, having somehow succeeded, was now completely lost as to what to do, but was too stubborn to drop the facade."
(For context on the eyes comment, the current narrator is an elf, elves in my worldbuilding have larger eyes than humans on average.)
"a giant shorted than me", beautiful. I can't wait to read your book.
The fact that the algorigthm isn't picking this up well is honestly tragic, because this is *exactly* the video I needed. Descriptions, especially physical ones, are my nemesis, and this video helps so much with that. Praise be to Supreme Empress Momo and her minion Tim!
Same here, I'm happy this one was suggested to me, because I'm having trouble with it too
I don't know what the algorithm is smoking, but this video should not be deranked so drastically. Here's a a comment sacrificed to the YT gods
Nobody knows whit the algoritam. This video is awesome
+
Accept this offering, oh great YT gods
I had to learn this on my own over two decades of writing, and this is honestly I don't think a better analysis could be made on writing character descriptions than this...
And with just that, Pratchett set us up to know the creepiest character in Discworld, Mr. Te-ah-tim-eh. Some of Sir Terry best description aren't even about the physical aspect of something, but the feelings and reaction it has on the characters. It's amazing. 🥰
Agreed. Character descriptions are not just what a character looks like but how they are perceived by others and those around them. They can also play in a character's personality. A smile is just a smile until described as being impish or devilish.
I remember pratchetts characters so vividly. He is so good at descriptions
The whiplash effect is always fun. Jade City has some great characters but hearing about one being this scary mastermind before meeting her and discovering she's still human REALLY makes her scary.
I like to come back to this video to contextualize my writing. I fall into patterns of description that leave me wanting more when I go back and reread them. After watching this one I often find my descriptions being much more vivid and thought provoking. Absolutely love your work!!! Keep it up!
One technique I like is describing what a character wears, rather than their body. People are born with their body, but they choose their cloths. The character who always wears pressed khakis is probably as little in common with the character wearing worn jeans. Add in the setting, such as a a job interview or a camping trip, and these decisions become much more pronounced.
Yeah. Like, imagine a guy who wears a zip-up hoodie when he’s called in to testify about an embezzlement scheme.
Yes but how do you say that? How do yu start telling the clothes? Isn't it awkward
@@stehplatzb.4310 Depends on which characters you're describing - if it's the pov character it could be because their clothes got caught on something, they noticed a stain or a tear, otherwise it could be because they notice the other person's clothes are peculiar for the area, they really stand out ect.
@@MxZui that's awesome. I would notice and think about my clothes if someone spilled something on it. Like imagine this "my sister spilled her tea on my favorite pink hoodie, at least my jeans were saved"
@@stehplatzb.4310 Yeah that's a good example lol
i think ur description would be stronger if u mentioned alice’s curvaceous hips (which are ready for childbearing remember to mention that)
I've always struggled with deciding HOW much description to use. This was very insightful. 😊
Thank you, Tim. Your hard work is immensely appreciated
I just got this video 22 seconds ago how did you post this one week ago
@@reactorx7861 It's called being a patreon. If you want to support the channel and get some neat bonuses like watching videos early, getting access to 268 exclusive posts, and have access to a patreon-only Discord, become a patreon today.
One of the best pieces of advice of seen for creative endeavours is to "fail faster". Most everyone embarking on a new project is going to find some things that work and more things that don't, but the trick is to not get discouraged and keep putting the work in. You will discover your way of creating along the way. Just don't listen to the voice that tries to tell you that failure is something you are rather than something you can learn and grow from. I haven't created anything beyond the daydreams in my head for fear of failure and the worlds harsh judgement. Even if you're the only one who will ever see it, hear it, taste, smell or touch it, take some time to nurture your creativity.
I think that's really good advice. We are all our own worst critic, and that can scare us out of trying. We need an inner cheerleader, too, telling us it's okay to try and fail. Or even to consider the attempt a success even if it isn't perfect.
My attempt at my first ever character description based on your knowledge.
I grew impatient, wondering if anyone had made it at all. Only a few seconds later the door In front of me begins to open. I straightened up as I see them come in. You would think we were a dying breed, given how few of them survived-only two out of a hundred. As they approached us, it was impossible not to notice a faint smile on both their faces, as if it were easy for them, as if they enjoyed it. But, I could tell they struggled; they were covered in blue and black from all the beatings. Their clothes were barely holding together, covered in a mixture of dry and fresh mud. I could tell they were sisters; they looked identical.
I’m not a writer, but I gave it a shot.
People don't talk like that.
Me at 2am staring in the mirror: I've got hazel eyes and dark brown hair hmmm interesting.
I mean 2 am self discovery is a thing and you are right
Every time I look into mirror I check what colour my eyes decided to be this time. If my ID is to be believed I have blue eyes. But some days they are light grey. Some days dark grey. Can be in many shades of blue. Sometimes green. So for me it's pretty normal to look at myself in the mirror and say: oh, yes. We're back to being our usual blue selfs, aren't we now?
@@saralaerevu8735 i think thats called light
As someone with partial face blindness, that is me every time I walk by a reflective surface
"time to think in depth about the size of my boobs"
I had to pause when Tim started talking about how people don't mentally describe themselves while looking in the mirror. It kinda made me take a step back because i realized I DO do that, to an extent. I'll look in the mirror and try to memorize my own face because for some reason I can't mentally picture myself or remember my own face... Idk I know that its not normally but hearing him point it out in context of writing is just jarring to me.
Anyways, amazing video! I'm definitely gonna share to help some of my fellow writers with you advice!
Same! I do that too
As someone who's very visually-minded and detailed oriented, I can't thank you enough for this! It's incredibly helpful to have some tangible points like this to look to when I can't decide what features to focus on.
I know he didn’t go in-depth into but I have always loved “the rest of us just live her” it’s a wonderful book about how the main characters never pay attention to the regular people and how they think no one noticed them hit in actuality everyone know they are the chosen one and just want them to hurry up and save the world so they can get back to living.
Love the long videos especially for topics like this one that aren't usually at the front of your mind when you write!
I love how in depth this is because I really struggle with character descriptions. This also helps with creating great characters!
"the perfect immitation of a smile" oof. That's good.
I feel like harry's eyes are also worth mentioning in the description, since it later becomes relevant as well.
That was such a important point for his character arc
I loooooove the On Writing videos in which other RUclipsrs read excerpts
Commenting twice to see if that helps the algorithm.
A giant shorter than me is one of the best character descriptions I’ve ever read
this is just my mandatory part in helping the algorithm
I salute you for this comment to help the video. Thus, I have liked and replied to your comment.
@@noahgoins4133 Your salutation has been received and filed according to standard process. The like is appreciated, and due to that a reciprocal appreciation has been sent to you. Good day.
Same
I just got recommended this video today, hopefully that means the algorithm is beginning to be a bit more merciful.
To me, character description has always been the same in writing as it is in art. You start with gesture sketches, silhouettes that capture the movement, shape, and the very distinct features first. You grab the essence, quick and simple, just enough to catch the life in a subject. Then, once you've got those things squared away, you can fill in the details later if you want to. Learning how to do that with words, the actual *how to* and not just the general theory, is much harder, and I think you brought a swath of great examples!
This video was super informative, thank you! And your writing is gorgeous, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I always thought this was something Rowling did so well. I know the HP series is overly discussed, but it’s hard to talk about character descriptions without mentioning her.
agreed, although the tropes she employs alongside her character descriptions can be tiring.
@@hannahg5407 such as?
The books cannot write themselves!
@@hannahg5407 oh yeah, the whole thing, while an amazing story full a magic, is absolute trope central. You got magic orphan kid with magic mark who has humble beginnings and has to fight an evil big bad with the help of a wise old mentor.
@@hannahg5407 never picked up that many tropes around the description though, but I could be missing them. What did you find?
Him 15 seconds into video: **holds up a stack of like a dozen books**
Me: Here we go
Ikr, I was going to listen to this on the background but then couldn't take my eyes of the books
I heard "Chrome" and was like "well is it me or...??" Dom's voice is unmistakable 😁❤️
Very interesting video as always!
This entire video is incredibly important for any writer, aspiring or well entrenched. It's valuable to look through old work and see how you've described your characters. It tells you what you thought was important to focus on, but also gives you an idea of how you shape your sentence structure and how to fine-tune it.
I'll admit I paused this video ten times to hurriedly scribble out ideas for my own characters. Love your work, man. 🙏
This video is high-effort and really informative and if the algorithm doesn't like it, then that's because the algorithm is wrong
On worrying about people seeing your writing. I can’t speak for everyone but the sole fact that you are writing will be impressive to most of us. I’ve been trying to write for a year now that I’m out of college and it just...won’t come out easily.
So don’t worry about it. What you’re doing is impressive enough
I made a promise to myself I wouldn't buy a book from a male writer until I have equal amount of books from men and women. This was after discovering I had about 30 books from women and 300 from men. Anyways, Tim is the exception. I'm gonna buy his book. First from a male writer in 2 years