Which character death hurt YOU most? Stop asking if I'm fine after Bridge to Terabithia I'M FINE OKAY?! go try campfire you cowards bit.ly/HFM3-21 use HFM21 to receive 20% lifetime purchases - on Momo's command
I know it probably wasn't intentional, but it's such a flex to casually drop possibly the best bit of writing before revealing "it's actually me!" Strikingly beautiful indeed
You're absolutely right. I was wondering, why I hadn't heard of Two Robots at the End of the World because the excerpt was so moving I had to pause to write a comment. Really impressive and mad respect for putting his work out there like this.
*Me:* "Ugh, I can't stand cliche and melodramatic dialogue during death scenes..." *An anime protagonist to their fallen friend:* "It'll be okay... no one can hurt you anymore." *Me, sobbing and nodding along:* "N-no one can hurt them anymore..."
you gotta remember though that it's not out of character or tonally inconsistent with the world. Because chances are the rest of that anime was also melodramatic it's perfectly consistent with the way characters act in that story.
Yeah I immediately thought of Japanese media when he was talking about melodrama, and how Japanese anime and TV is very melodramatic but it's still emotionally moving. I wonder what it is that separates the good melodrama from the bad melodrama. *scratches head*
Speaking of robots, I cried when WALL-E lost his memory and his curiosity, turning him into the soulless robot designed to only clean out trash, while EVE desperately tries to call him out and shake him back his memories. I love your story about the last robots, but it also makes me shattered, you sick monster
Just reading about that scene of WALL-E & EVE again brought tears to my eyes. 😢 Not that getting me to cry is hard, though. Anytime I try to make a pie I break down because making the crust is so difficult. That consistency so that rolling it out isn't a problem is such a hassle to get. Just making dough for the pie crust.... 😢 You may not be able to tell, but I've been baking lately... or rather prepping for baking.
Speaking of Stephen King, one of the things that really sticks in my mind is how he described the death of his mother in his autobiography: "The pauses between breaths became longer and longer. Eventually, there was no breath and it was all pause."
dude, the Toaster and Motherboard scene was so touching, it made me feel things without even knowing the characters or fully understanding the setting, bravo. and the fact that Toaster is trying to mimick human behaviour in such a moment, doesn't have the equipment to do so, but still goes for it... it just hits the spot, you know?
I know his death is a meme, but Ned Stark is truly the gold standard example of how to kill a character properly imo. His death causes SO many ripple effects and kickstarts so many characters journeys. I used to think George R.R. Martin was just killing for no reason, but I definitely think he is meticulous about it. Edit: Ned Stark's death is also a great example of subverting expectations imo. It combines many different elements to create a perfect moment, and I think that takes real talent. His death feels right, it doesn't feel cheap. It hurts, but it makes sense.
Another that's up there not in terms of creating a domino effect, but in terms of EXPLAINING the domino effect in a story is Snape's death. Severus is kind of the cause of everything that happens in the series. He told Voldemort about the prophecy, but clearly regretted it the rest of his life. His death is one that's hard to process cause you think you're supposed to hate this character, but then you see his memories, his love of Lily, his being a double spy for her, protecting Harry for her, and you want to be able to ACTUALLY TALK with Severus about this but.....you can't. You can't cause you just have his memories to speak for him. And you have to discern what you've seen for yourself. I like to think after it all, that Harry had at least one conversation with Severus' portrait in the Headmaster's office (because HE BETTER HAVE A PORTRAIT IN THERE DAMMIT ROWLING) to once and for all bury the hatchet with the Potions Master.
Yes! Oh it was just so. Good. THIS is how you subvert expectations. Not just death for death's sake, but a real connected web explaining why someone would 'randomly' die mid development and the consequences of that action on the rest of the world.
just because something is a meme doesn't mean is not good or meaningfull, the dog quimera is also a meme and everyone agrees it's inpactfull and sad. people just like joking with stuff. his death is a very important and was foreshadowed in ep 1 oh shit, I just inevitably remembered GOT was ruined, oh no! the pain!!!
@@polinet.5712 Nah. That just shows you how much I'm unfamiliar with that book that I'm not even getting the author's gender right... since I know nothing about it. 😑👍
@@tiph3802 A year late but basically at the end of the book the girl who he became friends with died after the rope they swung across the creek with snapped and she hit her head and died
Mufasa from the 'Lion King' comes to mind when I think of "meaningful death." He gets a solid character arc before being tossed off the cliff by a conniving coward brother. Simba comes over, pokes at his dad's lifeless body, cries. What he represented to everyone is the entire story. Made me cry like the kid I was, and it is still one of the best moments in Disney animation.
Good call. I also like how they did the death itself. I know it's a kid's movie, so they couldn't show a splatter of blood and guts. But the important part was the betrayal from Scar: They showed Mufasa's utter disbelief as he fell, and then it cut before impact, next going to the quiet after the stampede (good juxtaposition) and Simba's sorrow.
"'Motherboard?' said Toaster, but he was alone." He's alone, Tim. How could you do that. He's just a toaster. God, him asking for Motherboard after she ran out of power! I was already upset at Bridge to Terebithia, the Doctor, and Boromir, but I don't even know Toaster here. Ouch. If you were worried that we wouldn't like it, you don't have to anymore. I'm going to pause to cry. You did good. EDIT: not you bringing up what happened to Donna that's just rude
OH NO IS TOASTER'S DEATH IN THIS VID???? I had literally completely forgotten about that movie, and that death, THE MOST TRAGIC THING IN MY CHILDHOOD. THIS IS THE WEIRDEST FEELING OF NOSTALGIC SADNESS WHAT Or this comment could be about something completely different, haven't watched the vid yet, but thanks for reminding me of a movie I had completely forgotten I once loved. 👍 Even if I'm sad now
The Tenth Doctors Death-Episode is a Giant Failure in Terms of the Death itself. Firstly, because its not Death. Regeneration does not equal Death, thats just someone this Actor made-up and it really shows. This Epic Failure of him spouting nonsense about Regeneration and whining an entire Episode, when others regenerate with the words "Shut up, mom! I'm concentrating on a new Shoe-Shize!" is epic failure indeed. -So to summarize a big Topic.
Talking about Iroh, Lu Ten's death is a great example of what you explained about a character not needing to be known by the reader/watcher for their death to be meaningful and to cause strong feelings. We knew throughout Avatar that Iroh's son died, so it's not a surprise at all, but we face the reality of his dead alongside Iroh in Tales of Ba Sing Se, and it hits hard...
The Tenth Doctors Death-Episode is a Giant Failure in Terms of the Death itself. Firstly, because its not Death. Regeneration does not equal Death, thats just someone this Actor made-up and it really shows. This Epic Failure of him spouting nonsense about Regeneration and whining an entire Episode, when others regenerate with the words "Shut up, mom! I'm concentrating on a new Shoe-Shize!" is epic failure indeed. -So to summarize a big Topic.
One death that hit me like a loaded truck was Theoden in the books. You generally have this idea of kings as these regal, distant figures, but Theoden is incredibly kind, down to earth. He even tells Merry that he'd wish to see the Shire and smoke pipeweed with him, after all this is over. He still feels he has to redeem himself from being controlled for so long, and then he just, dies.
Plus it was the extra tragedy of theoden not knowing Eowyn was the one who killed the nazgul mount. I understand that the films making theoden see her is more satisfying, but less tragic.
One thing to note on Ned Stark’s beheading is the fact that his death was ordered by Jeoffrey, to Ilyn Payne. In ep. 1 of GoT it’s shown how he beheads the deserter from the Night’s Watch, and goes so far as to tell Bran “The man who passes the sentence must swing the sword”. The way his journey began, compared to how it ended was so profoundly painful, tragic, yet at the same time, touching and impactful on so many levels.
Oh my gosh, I just realized that. What a great bit of symmetry and bookending the season, and a great way to reinforce how diametrically opposite Ned and Joffrey are as characters.
Ned Stark's death is truly tragic. He is accused of treachery and conspiring to steal the Iron Throne from Joffrey. As Ned falsely admits to his crime before the people. A careless and spiteful Joffrey ignores Sansa's plea for Ned to live and Cersei's suggestion that Ned gets sent to the Night's Watch and orders Ned to be executed. Man! What a way to go.
It's even better than that. His approach to execution is basically "don't do it unless you have no other choice". His own beheading was the opposite of that. Plenty of alternatives, a counter-productive move, and ultimately done out of spite and power-tripping.
You. I recognize you. I have seen your vids. I have consumed them and they have produced the dopamine in my head. My basement people appreciate that dopamine greatly, for it means less time spent extracting it from their suffering.
I think that Vader crushing everything around him with the Force after learning of Padmé's death is pretty good. That is how grief feels: it is actually shocking that the rest of the world is NOT torn apart by one's grief too, and in fact kust continues without noticing it at all. It is just the "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" that is melodramatic.
The reaction is fine imo ("nooooouuuuu" is a tad much I agree). But the death as such is ruined by the droids line before. Maybe someone has an anecdote of something similar happening, but "loosing the will to live" right after conceiving two children was baffling to me, even before I became a parent myself. In my headcanon it was the combination of labour/pregnancy and chocking/violence that killed her.
Agreed, anger and lashing out would feel right. Even denying it, not just shouting "nooo" but a "no, you're lying, that can't be true" or lashing out at Palpatine would have been far better. But the long howling "nooooooo" just rings so hollow.
i've always found the "no no nonononono" reaction to be more realistic than the "NOOOOOOOOOOO" reaction, I feel like the second is kind of overly theatrical, while the prior feels like the character is kind of stuck in the moment
@@matt_9112 right I'm like "hey hi you have two children to care for?" but I think that well....I mean parenting is HARD. Imagine being a single mother, in a galaxy now ruled by the empire, an empire YOUR HUSBAND helped create....and children you HAVE to hide from said husband you love entirely. That....I....I mean that could very well break just about anyone.
Note to Story Studiers who Want To Write Things: - Write something that makes sense to you. - Wait a whole week. - Reread it and edit it. - Tell yourself you're an excellent writer.
This video made me feel better about my own death scenes in my work, and your advice is some of the best. More people should spread the real reality of writing, rather than the expectation that you write and make perfect art on the first try.
Rereading and editing is 90% of writing for me. It makes it so much easier to just slap the first draft of something on the paper cause I can focus on whatever the idea is at the moment and wait until later to see how it fits and add structure etc.
I should do that. But I just hate editing soooo much. (There is also the fact that writing non-fiction, where I have to edit, obviously, is my job, while writing fiction is a hobby. So I can't be bothered to go through the drudgery of editing my fiction. Which yes, does mean it's shit more often than not, but hey, I enjoy it and it does no harm to anyone).
I can't believe you didn't include the ever-famous "I don't feel so good Mr.Stark" that scene had everyone bawling okay yeah he didn't really die but- it was good ass writing, because, Peter could feel it from a mile away. When it actually happened however he was just the kid, Peter. No fancy spider-man tricks, no one-liners, he was a scared kid.
@@michaelpowers6551Perfect death is the Ace's scenes. Luffy hugging Ace who is about to die while crying and then a flashback of Ace asking Garp "Do I deserved to be born?" 😢 then Garp answered "That's something you'll know as you lived your life" Then at the present Ace telling Luffy "Thank You for loving someone like me" 😭
@@michaelpowers6551 almost everyone in the theater when I watched that scene was crying. I was filled with rage at that moment because I love Spider-Man. But Tom and Rob actually killed it in that scene too so really it could be the acting.
Just popping a note in to say that I felt your writing was quality and belonged with all the other examples you gave. I wouldn’t have known which one was yours. Plus, you know, a comment might help the vid :-) (edit: but not the bad examples of course...)
When I was little, Bridge to Teribithia was my absolute favourite film and was the first story that really exposed me to grief. I was in complete denial. Poor 8 year old me told myself that she didn't die but that she went to live with mermaids in the river. Despite the trauma, I still rented it every few weeks from the video store.
I literally added ‘Two Robots at the End of the World’ to my Read list in my phone notes, I was wondering if any of my book stores had it. That’s beautiful
Ok so it seems like they use Peter in Avengers Endgame and "we won Mr Stark" to juaxtapose against Iron Man's death. The victory juxtaposes with the sacrifice
What was always interesting in that scene to me is that Pepper seems to accept it quickly. I say “seems” because she later is shown to really grieve and cry, but it’s as if she puts on a brave face for Tony’s last moments so that he (and the audience) don’t immediately worry about her. She and Morgan be okay, and she takes care to to tell Tony right away (but again, I feel like she’s really telling us, too). This way, the writers guide us towards the tragedy and heroism of Tony’s death. We spend much less time worrying about if he can survive or trying to comprehend what happened and we go right into accepting it, cause all of the characters are accepting it too. In a franchise where people are always surviving impossible odds and coming back from death, it’s important that the writers make sure the audience doesn’t mistake their important death scene as just another “rise from near death” moment
@@tkri also! she says "you can rest now" which is a callback to an earlier scene talking about how tony can't let anything be and always has to be the one to find the solution no matter the cost etc. in conclusion, you have the finished character arc, the literary symmetry (i am iron man), the juxtaposition (we won, mr stark), the foreshadowing (doctor strange holding up the finger) and the peaceful death (you can rest now), making it an impactful and cry-worthy death.
I just read “Forever Interrupted” by Taylor Jenkins Reid, and the book opens with the POV character’s husband dying. Her hopeless thoughts are so powerful in how small they are. The line that made me cry was “I caught a glimpse of my face in the mirror, it’s red and swollen. To think that someone actually loved that face. And now he’s gone. And now nobody loves my face anymore” and I’m her grief she says “I really really want to stop being so mean” realizing how she’s snapping at her loved ones because of her grief when she doesn’t mean to. The small relatability was so real. Great video as always!
*the title includes Terabithia* Me: "Don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry" Literally, Leslie's death is one of only two character deaths that have ever made me cry. And I've seen a lot of characters die.
Never understood the appeal od terabithia tbh, the whole book felt like a setup for the death, and the death itself was so meh ,leslie was a superficial character that i didnt care for
What an amazing analysis. Also, I loved your writing, man. I got a sense of the whole story from that section alone. One thought about George R.R. Martin: I was surprised you didn't mention The Red Wedding in the catharsis section. Part of why that was so painful is that Arya was finally about to reunite with her mother. The readers had followed her over thousands of pages only to have half her family killed at the last minute.
I loved the 10th doctor and his regeneration was very impactful, however I’ve always liked the regenerations where the doctor accepts that this part of their life is over and it’s time to move on to the next. That acceptance of change is more fitting for a wisened traveler like the doctor, not raging to resist death but simply accepting it when their time comes Making the 10ths exit from the series so painful and drawn out made a lot of people feel that this was the end of the character and series as a whole, when it really was just another step in the journey of a very very old being A line from my personal favorite regeneration: “I will always remember when the doctor was me”
I remember hearing the case made that, since the Tenth Doctor was so reluctant to regenerate and that he *never got over it,* it kind of stacked the cards against Matt Smith from the get-go. Like, here's this guy whom the audience is at this point already immensely attached to, in his final episode before he's replaced by another actor whom, justifiably or not, the very same people who love the current guy are really apprehensive about. And then you make the old guy's last words a tearful "I don't wanna go" before the soundtrack starts wailing out in unrestrained grief? Followed then by the *extreme* whiplash of Matt Smith's introduction being mega goofy? Like... intentionally or not that does kinda feel like it's setting the audience up to immediately dislike Eleven. And Smith also didn't get what Tennant got during his intro, which is a whole episode actually acknowledging the fact that the change might be difficult to accept wherein he eventually proves himself to the other characters in the story; Smith's first episode only features new characters. Of course he did get the "Hello. I'm the Doctor" moment which is phenomenal and honestly I think Smith had *easily* the best introductory episode out of all the modern era Doctors (can't comment on how he compares to classic era Doctors as I haven't seen a lot of them) but... he did start off with a bit of a handicap because of how Tennant was written out.
@@thelordstarfish I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think there's always apprehension with a new Doctor, but that's why their first episode is so crucial. People might have been apprehensive about Matt Smith, but I think that winning the approval of the audience in that first episode is all the more impactful for it. I think both Ten and Eleven had great regeneration scenes and I think they were actually in a way one story arc for The Doctor that culminated in the 50 year anniversary special. We saw him go through several stages of processing and internalising the Time War and the role he played in the genocide of his people. Ten's reluctance to regenerate is showcased twice in two very different contexts. The first time, he's just been reunited with Rose. He doesn't want to go because he finally regained the woman he loves and wants to experience that. He feels like he's been given a good thing, a reward and he perhaps for the first time since the war begins to feel like he might just deserve a little bit of good in his life. But he then loses her again, he loses his best friend and then he's faced with the choice of losing either his life or his identity as The Doctor (if he had chosen not to save Wilf). It's like all the good things in his life have been stripped away and now he will never have the opportunity to ever experience any other good things. Not as who he was then. Then comes Eleven, who distances himself from all that Ten was. He remodels the TARDIS, he's goofier and more childish than before. He looks younger than his previous regenerations. And he runs away faster than ever before. Only to finally be confronted with Ten, the War Doctor and his role in the Time War. He is finally able to come to terms with his decision and he now has hope for the future. So when it's his time to regenerate, he can accept it more easily. It's still emotional and it's still scary, but when Ten regenerated, he felt hopeless and done dirty by the universe. When Eleven regenerated, he had just been granted another set of regenerations, he had friends, he had saved Christmas and his home planet and his people were out there. He had hope.
I've been wanting to say for a while that I appreciate the way you recap your writing episodes. Specifically your use of the words "Firstly, secondly," etc. because my high school speech and debate coach made me edit those words out of my own speech because "people don't talk like that." It's a little thing, but it feels vindicating after all these years to hear those words and nobody caring about them.
Those kind of structural words are even more important in a formal debate when your communication is supposed to be optimised for clarity, as well as persuasiveness. Nothing makes you look like you’re winning rhetorically than delivering three or more excellent points in quick succession, and nothing lays that out clearer than numbering them. Seems to me like a personal gripe of that teacher’s that was projected on to you
It's a lot easier for people to hear "you've just got 7 points to remember" than a big long paragraph with no distinction made between points, so I'm glad you appreciate it! ~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe The Tenth Doctors Death-Episode is a Giant Failure in Terms of the Death itself. Firstly, because its not Death. Regeneration does not equal Death, thats just someone this Actor made-up and it really shows. This Epic Failure of him spouting nonsense about Regeneration and whining an entire Episode, when others regenerate with the words "Shut up, mom! I'm concentrating on a new Shoe-Shize!" is epic failure indeed. -So to summarize a big Topic.
@@TAP7a NO one talks in formal rhetoric; but, that is why we make speeches and have debate clubs: so you can enumerate the ways in which your argument is correct and your opponents' is flawed.
When you talked about melodrama, what I immediately thought was “extreme displays of emotion CAN work, if they make sense.” And the example I thought of is a powerful one. Phillip Hamilton’s death in Hamilton, and Eliza’s scream. It’s perfect. It fits, it makes sense, and it’s devastating. But it works because it fits the situation (losing a child), it’s shocking (coming immediately after he dies, with a song that gets quieter and quieter. So it contrasts the deafeningly quiet death with a deafeningly loud scream). And it’s also not some “Nooooo”, drawn out, way too long. It’s just long enough. And it’s a painful scream, full of emotion, holding nothing back. I only imagine, if Darth Vader had a guttural, shorter, less controlled and unbalanced “AAAAH” type of scream, maybe bending over as the room collapses around him, instead of what they did, Anakin’s pain would feel more genuine. Also, the medium definitely helps too. Describing a scream like that on a page would likely not work. But because it’s theater, something big and theatrical works.
ooooo yea writing a scream and hearing a scream would be totally different thats a great point! Feel like thats why a lot of people's comments about what counted as melodramatic was throwing me off at first
Exactly. Musical theater is a more, well, THEATRICAL medium than most so having Eliza scream the way she does isn't as melodramatic in that medium as it would be in another.
Killing characters is probs one of the most interesting conversations in writing. Ironically, I was planning on writing an article on it for my high school’s newspaper, a few days before the community post announcing this video 😂. But I guess where I’m going with this is that my article thing highlighted that we cannot thank you enough for your videos Tim, because they really do go through subjects on writing which I think interest everyone watching and give us so many amazing pieces of writing advice.
I loved the Two Robots example. It takes a bit for a death scene out of context to really make you feel something, and I thought it really did a good job.
Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood's main early death (perhaps overly cautious as far as spoilers, but eh) really got to me in its handling. I loved how it continued to have tremendous impact right to the end of the show. It changed other characters in interesting ways, it made sense to the plot, and the sheer feels were overwhelming.
Yeah this was the first death that came to mind when I thought about death in relation to other characters. It was shocking to the audience, spurred Ed, Al, and Winry along their character arcs. It created a small descent into madness and moral question for Mustang’s character. And it also caused us to absolutely hate Envy. Introducing the characters Wife and Child just episodes before was such a slap in the face from author.
I love amazing Spidermans Gwen Stacy's death, I love the way Andrew is in complete denial, they way he says stay with me when it's clear she's dead is heart breaking, but it does border the meladramatic.
Okay so this might be a strange answer for favorite death scene. My dad is a retired history teacher, and when I was a kid, we watched the Gettysburg miniseries. When General Armistead died, I lost it, and I still cry a little every time I remember it (I am right now, oh my goodness) It was Armistead dying, hearing his friend General Hancock has been shot, cries out, "Not both of us! Not all of us! Please, God!" and it just broke my heart. It was the first time I remember being so deeply affected by a death in media. A close second, and more recent, is Castlevania. When Dracula is fighting Alucard and, seeing a picture of his dead wife, Lisa, stops and wonders aloud, "My boy. I'm killing my boy. Lisa, I'm killing our boy." I think about that one...a lot.
Just wanna say, the two robots at the end of the world was so well written. I really wish I could read an entire short story around it. That was so well done. Fantastic job
Also Sean Bean every character he plays isn't just dyeing his character needs to be sacrificed to make the movie or show he is in to be good and the sooner his character dies the better the story his character is in and if his character miraculously survives the movie he is in sucks.
@@h2o21075 Sean Bean also survived in The Martian, though he was sacked when he took responsibility for the mission going off script. He also didn't die in the Sharp series, though not for lack of trying. (On a side note, I just realised that his given and surname only differ by their beginning letters.)
I’d like to give mention to Lenore’s death in the Netflix adaptation of Castlevania in season 4. The convo that was had with Hector before she steps into the sunlight for the 1st time before burning to dust was so poignant.
Her death I get why for the story, but fuck did it piss me off Don't care how well the scene was written or how it will affect Hector's growth. All I was really feeling was the lose of a super interesting female character, who also showed how complicated the vampires can be. Whatever the story gets out of her death, I feel does not compare to what it could have had with her life. Also her just giving up and dying, I understand why she did that but I think she could have easily built a small haven for herself and her sisters (other than Camilla) in a new land. But ugh she kill the super interesting lady for the moody bois growth
I loved your writing. Juxtaposition from a happy memory to a painful death was great, but also the juxtaposition in humor. Motherboard and toaster are funny names for inhuman robots, so why do I feel the need to cry for them? It was gorgeous. You did an amazing job. Thanks for the video
Thank you so much! Means a lot to say. The names 'Motherboard' and 'Toaster' came from these robots looking at human civilisation and trying to see how they might have fit in. Toaster is a small robot, so he thought he might be a toaster. ~ Tim
Donna's death was heartbreaking and really got to me, but in hindsight it kinda illustrates a flaw of the Doctor, especially of Ten, that he always thinks he knows best. Contrast this with Clara's "death" with Twelve. He starts to do the same thing to her, to rob her of her experiences in order to "save" her, but she has enough of a warning that she's able to turn the tables on him: "Tomorrow is promised to no-one, Doctor, but I insist upon my past. I am entitled to that. It's mine." It's a choice that Donna was robbed of, that Ten took from her without her permission.
I have to disagree. Donna was going to die if he did nothing, Ten had to erase her memories. That's why there is tragedy to it. Clara was already dead at this point. She had died two episodes prior. In an episode about how you have to face your death instead of running from it, in fact. So by bringing her back from the dead, any impact the decision has is pointless. Why go through all the trouble of brining back this character if one of them is going to forget all of their experiences. The writing in Hell Bent is terrible.
@@bbh6212 Hell Bent is definitely flawed but I will defend the Clara/Donna mindwipe. Even if 10 is saving her life, Donna was saying no. He had to separate her from anyone else who would try and stop this and forcibly remove the memories even as she begged him not to. That's a hard image to shake and I'm glad the series eventually addressed it
@@bbh6212 ok but Heaven Sent is a masterpiece so Hell Bent gets some bonus points for merely being related to it lol (although honestly much more loosely than the names would imply)
@@Ben-vf5gk Moffat's era as a whole has a running theme of the importance of memories as a key part of a person's identity, so it makes sense that they'd really address the idea of how f*cked up it is to remove a person's memory without consent. You could kind of argue that Donna's exit kind of tackled that, but Clara's exit really went in on this angle, and I definitely appreciate that part of the episode
“But he was alone” in your short story struck me surprisingly hard. Like, harder than some of the other deaths in the video which I had actually experienced through a full read or watch of their story. Point is, your writing is good
Attack on Titan does this well in season 3 with Commander Erwin. He dies before finding out the answers hidden in the basement. His character arc ends very well, we the audience find out of course but he as a character does not. He misses out on his goal by that much
he also refused the one thing that could've saved his life so armin could live in his place. erwin deserved to die not as a punishment, but so after a long life of sacrificing his soldiers in pursuit of humanity's freedom, he could finally join them and rest.
YES, exactly what I thought of! I get the people who were upset that Armin was chosen to live instead of Erwin, BUT if he hadn't died there, his arc of seeing the basement and finding out that there are other humans would've been finished, and nothing else would be particularly satisfying about his character after that. Killing him off had the most potential impact right then and there, and I also thought it was 'right' because he was sacrificing himself along with his scouts, showing that he truly lives (and dies) by his ideals. He knew his time in the lead was up, and his death symbolically handed over the narrative to the younger generation. Great character, with a great arc. Damn, I need to rewatch it again.
oh my god why does the name Erwin pop up so much- I wrote a character named Erwin who even *I* hate, and since then I see the name *everywhere* ... help
“You can still make your characters cry. Have fun with it” The philosophy that gives me fictional PTSD! Enjoyed hearing my favorite book tuber Merphey on this channel.
Ugh!!! That "I don't want to go" always makes me cry. Good lord, part of me always thinks it was also David Tenant saying he didn't want to stop being the doctor.
I would have been interested to hear your thoughts on deaths in stories like “I have no mouth and I must scream” and shows like “Cowboy Bebop”. Great content thanks for the video
I honestly think the story that he wrote was really good. I was feeling the emotions and then he revealed it was his own story and I was like that was a good way to do a death scene
I've come up with a funny death scenes for a elf general that is in command of a Griffin cavalry. He gets drunk in a tall tower and accidentally falls out.
29:45 - 29:49 I NEARLY CHOKED ON MY OWN BREATH hearing the phrase "thick milky" outside of the context of that one Moviestruck episode made me fucking *lose it*
14:10 Even seeing those little bits of The Green Mile gets the emotion to well up. Every time I watch that movie - or even read the book - it wrecks me, and it starts well before the death ("I'm tired, boss.").
I cannot state enough how frustrating it is when the death has no effect on the story. A beloved character dies and you mourn their absence, but the characters dont. the story doesnt. in the moment yes, but it moves on really fast. if they dont leave behind a space unfilled (that takes time to heal), its feels like they didnt matter. if it doesnt bring something to the table *only this could* and you could replace them with any other character, it feels cheap, meaningless. and it is the biggest turn off in a story. it can negate all the other well done parts cuz it immediately lessens how much i care about the story moving forward
Example: Most of the characters that died in The Deathly Hollows. Like damn, Cedric that only got developed for 1 book had more impact to the story than the deaths of Lupin, Tonks, Hedwig and Fred. I know that they are at war and deaths are expected for all the characters even the fan favourites. But the fact that Harry didn't get to grieve (or really we as the readers didn't see the grieve he had) after the war and they just did a time skip is so underwhelming.
@@kikilala9371 Oh, wow you're so right. Cedric's death, especially the scene where Harry and him come back, is always so gut-wrenching. But the others in Deathly Hollows are basically nothing.
Oh this is sooooo annoying! Viggo in Race to the Edge is the first one I think of, but there's like a million more. In season 6 of clone wars maybe, nobody even mentioned Ahsoka (she didn't die, but ya know, she did leave and Anakin didn't seem to be affected by it)
One of the best written deaths in HP in my opinion, is actually tied. Sirius Black and Severus Snape. Movie Sirius Black's death is bar none THE most painful thing to witness because it's just the music, and Daniel Radcliffe screaming. AND I MEAN SCREAMING. Apparently, his screams were so horrific and real and raw, that it made several people on set cry, and they couldn't use the audio for it. Hence the music. In the books everything happens so fast it's hard to process it until it's all said and done-which is realistic. And Harry's breakdown in Dumbledore's office, ALSO incredible, a standout moment from the series and ALSO again realistic. This kid went through SO much SHT that year, he finally had enough. Of course he snapped. And his death hurts us cause it was Harry's one chance at having a family taken away. It sucks. Now for Severus, that's more complicated. He's introduced to us readers as while not outright a villain, someone not to be trusted. Harry never trusts Severus, and his distrust is proven right seemingly, when the night of the Astronomy tower occurs. But the movies put an interesting spin on it-the look on Severus' face is one of many flickering emotions-anger, hate, rage, pain...he clearly doesn't relish in killing Dumbledore, but the books doesn't really shed light on that. So when Severus is murdered, it's left the readers feeling a lot of things....mostly confusion at feeling sad because this wasn't the most pleasant of men to be around. AND THEN you see his memories and just everything clicks but it's not all resolved either...There's still the debate YEARS later on what kind of man Severus was; if he deserves to be called a hero or not.....MY GOD Severus is such a well written character his complexity is top notch and THAT'S what makes his death to me anyways, incredibly heartbreaking. You want to learn more about this person you thought you were supposed to hate, you want to have all these conversations with them but now....you can't. And that hurts. It also shows, that you don't have to have a WELL LIKED character in order for that character's death to leave an impact. And Severus' death is something I think GOT tried to follow (at least show wise) but didn't really grasp for several not well liked characters.
My problem with with Snape isn't that he had a badly done redemption, but that it had the potential to be pulled off much better with only minor changes.
@@Nemo12417 what would the minor changes be for you? I think the film handled Snape really well-it's the books that kind of have him as this antihero/leaning toward villainy RIGHT up until the end. In the movies, he's definitely more of an antihero until half blood prince when you think him full villain. I think one change in the books, that would help, is actually something the movies only did-have Severus protect the trio from Lupin. In POA, he's unconscious during that scene, and ranting to Dumbledore about Sirius after. Not a good light for Snape which makes you think he's just out to settle old scores. But in the movie he's full on protecting the trio he hates from a WEREWOLF. That's....pretty Gryffindor for a Slytherin lol.
For me Cedric's death in the movie, not specifically when it happens but when Harry arrives back in front of the maze, hits really hard. The band kicking off and then suddenly petering away when they realise something's wrong, his father's cries. For me that's probably the most hard hitting death in the movies
Oh my God. Yes. Sirius's death was so so so painful. Especially because I always had a twinge of hope they would save him. Remember Luna's conversation with Harry about hearing voices or something? And then when the series ended and that mever happened, I felt like he had died all over again.
@@haydentempest3874 I remember people kinda joking about his father's actors....acting in that scene. I remember people thought it was too much or OVER DRAMATIC but I think it was spot on. Anyone who's a parent would know that a parent's WORST fear and worst pain is having to bury their child. OF COURSE Cedric's father would be just screaming in agony over his son's death. Something I noticed just recently, is that Severus actually put his cloak over Cedric's body-when you watch the scene, you see Amos (I think that's his name?) move his hands as if just brushing something away from his son-I thought it was the people around Cedric. But no one other than Dumbledore was near-fake Moody grabbed Harry before Amos got to the body. And in the scene with Albus, Crouch Jr, Snape, and Harry, Snape isn't wearing his cloak. Details like that are why in some instances the movies are better than the books. IMO.
That section with the two robots at the end of the world made me cry a little.... With almost zero context of the story leading up to that point... It's so emotional....
Me, watching my D&D players talk themselves into a Total Party Kill: "Fun? No, I would say more . . . educational. Though, of course, *learning is fun!"*
For some reason the melodrama part reminded me of Calculon’s death in Futurama. He takes poison to literally die on stage during a death scene to try to win an acting competition and still loses lol
That was unexpected. I literally started crying in the middle of the reading of the passage from Two Robots at the End of the World. I really don’t cry unless I’m very invested in the characters already, but it was just so perfectly written. I’m quite stunned. I had no idea who wrote it-just have to say, well done!
My favorite example of character death comes from a Practical Guide to Evil. Robber, THE fan favorite of the series volunteers for a suicidal last mission, and how EE writes his ending is just soooo beautiful.
I agree that phrases like "stay with me" isn't bad, but my interpretation of what Tim is saying is that excessively expressing the pain, emotions, experience via dialogue alone makes the death scene flat. He says "expressing everything vocally", and he gave a few example phrases that may be commonly used in such a way. I imagine something like a combination of phrases such as," It hurts so much. I see the light", "Don't go to the light! Stay with me! Follow my voice", etc in the same scene may make it feel cheap/unrealistic.
@@Ashley-xu1lk oh I get it. that's why the NOOOOOOOOOO clip. now that I think about it anime has a ton of characters screaming over any type of situation. I can't think of a death scene in particular but since they scream all the time I'm sure there are a lot of over reacting in some anime death scenes as well
If it wasn't for Fives we wouldn't have Rex and Ahsoka. Definitely one of, if not the best of the 501st. Also on a different note, I thought Maul's death scene in Rebels was very well done.
11:38 Great way to let us first hear your story before telling us it was yours. That way I can be even more honest in my opinion: I like your writing. Especially the last sentence gives that thread of lonelines. The mention of 'four percent' marked the ending already, and you've restrained yourself from adding 3, 2, and 1 percent since that wasn't needed anymore.
I still cry whenever I see Donna's "end", as well as in the final episode of the series MI-5/Spooks and the fate of Ruth. The movie Up came out a few years after my wife died and, needless-to-say, the opening sequence drove me into an emotional wreck. Bridge to Terabithia was very traumatizing for me as a kid. Oh, yeah, the end of Season 2 of Torchwood. That was another emotional gut punch.
The deaths that affected me the most (Harry Potter and Fullmetal Alchemist spoilers ahead) Sirius Black was easily the hardest death in the HP books. He was supposed to be the father Harry never had, and if Harry had ever opened the gift Sirius had given him (the mirror), the whole end situation that caused his death could've been avoided. We didn't even get a body. Hughes' death in Fullmetal Alchemist (original series, not brotherhood) destroyed me. It was so sudden and so intense, I fell off my couch sobbing. He had so much to do, he was such a great character, and he loved his daughter so much. The reason it was more impactful in the original show was there was 30 full episodes where you could get invested in the character and his role in the story. Brotherhood just cliff notes that whole story arc into 10 episodes, so it just didn't mean as much or hit as hard.
I actually think Dumbledore's death is criminally underrated. I knew the whole way through the story that he had to die in this book, and yet the events which lead up to death still caught me off guard. He is close to death in the cave, but they escape, they arrive at hogwarts to find the dark mark, dumbledore is confronted by malfoy who wants to kill him, dumbledore manages to talk him down, the death eaters show up, and he still seems to be holding his own. And then Snape turns up and he's dead. It's still somehow shocking despite how drawn out it is.
Speaking of Harry Potter, Lupin's and Tonks' death hit me the hardest. I was 10 and I remember literally crying over it Maybe the reason was that it kinda mirrored Harry's parents' death, and also because it's clear Remus and Tonks didn't get enough time to live together, there was always war and danger around them, they lost their loved ones, and after all that suffering they met such a tragic end. They deserved so much better 😭
@@Musikur my friend spoiled Dumbledore's death, AND who killed him, but I was the ONE person in our friend group who thought Severus was full good guy just a spy, and was like "nahnahnahanhnah" and THEN IT HAPPENED and I legit just tossed the book lol. I was PISSED but like also in straight denial too I was like "wait maybe maybe Snape had no choice I mean he DIDN'T have a choice cause the unbreakable vow he made, but like I dunno maybe there was SOMETHING ELSE to it-" and my friend was like "girl....GET OUT OF HIS CORNER HE MURDERED SOMEONE" lol. And then deathly hallows happens and I WAS SO VINDICATED about Snape but I couldn't feel happy cause he was dead so yeah Snape's death for me is up there in terms of just...IT SUCKS lol.
why does no one ever mention Fred's death? In the books that's HEARTBREAKING. "No! Fred! No!" And Percy was shaking his brother, and Ron was kneeling beside them, and Fred's eyes stared without seeing, the ghost of his last laugh still etched upon his face." I think his last words were something along the lines of "You actually are joking, Perce - I don't think I've heard you joke since you were -" and then that's just IT. The explosion happens and he's just gone. Damn.
I remember when I was a kid and I saw The Hunt For Red October. I have forgotten much of that movie, but I still remember Sam Neil talking about all the things he was going to do when he got to America, buy a pickup truck, marry a round woman, and drive to every state. And then they fucking killed him.
TIIIIM!!! YOUR ROBOT DEATH SCENE WAS SOOO GOOD!!! Oml that was amazing. That was the only one of the passages that actually made my eyes watery (i don’t say this to disparage any of the other writings, yours was just SO GOOD). Keep writing, you’re amazing!!
I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW THESE CHARACTERS BUT I CRIED AT MOTHERBOARDS DEATH. Absolutely fantastic job, that was so emotional and I didn't even know most of what was happening, that means a lot
Wow Tim I loved the Robot death and especially how you interpreted their human emotions. Below is a very short death scene from my book, and it's meant to be. The character who dies is a warrior (think 300 Spartan, even seeking a "good death"), and the killer is the all-powerful High Elder who doesn't respect her race at all: He spoke louder to Flarak, “You are intelligent… And we are civilized. I will make this quick.” Everything happened at once. As soon as Domon uttered the words, Flarak lunged from her seat, but she never had a chance-especially shackled as she was. The flare from Domon’s whel was just one more magical light in the room. Dara screamed “no!” as he lifted both of his hands, and the air between he and Flarak shimmered faintly. A gust from one hand pushed Flarak back, then lightning shot from Domon’s other palm. A single, purple bolt struck Flarak in the heart, and she crumpled to the ground. With this death, I wrap up Flarak's arc, give her a bitter sweet ending, reestablish Domon's power, and firm the divide between him and his Granddaughter (one of the MCs). Would love anyone's comments or questions. This is my first fantasy novel (will be series of 4), and it's in editing.
Thanks for this. Rewrote a death scene. Another death scene was the first time killing an often used secondary character. I really struggled with committing all that into their being gone. Then I realized what I had was all the reactions of the everyone else. The death of the character isn't necessarily the last mention of the character.
I have been hearing the Campfire Blaze pitch form what feels like years, but I never even considered looking at the site. But when you told the story about how the added a feature you recommended in less than a day, I paused the video and immediately made an account.
Star Wars episode three, revenge of the sith. I postulate that Vader’s “noooooo” is infinitely more heartbreaking than it appears, because it does appear funny. Vader, having just murdered children (which is why he’s crying right before he kills the separatists he feels guilt for doing so) betraying his best friend and dozens, if not hundreds of Jedi, in affect betraying everything that he held dear just to try to save his wife and unborn child. Now I want you to use your perfectly formed voice ox to try and get your seri or Alexa to do an accurate speech to text sentence. I bet you they messed up a few words here or there. Now Vader, having just been burned like a marshmallow that fell off your stick on s’mores night, whose re-assembly and entire surgery was done without anesthetic or putting him to sleep was placed in an ill fitted suit designed to cause him physical and mental torture just found out that his wife was dead. His cry of pain and agony wasn’t the “no” because after that suit goes on we don’t hear him speak again until Luke takes off his mask, his suit speaks for him. The true agony of that scene is that his final primal scream of pain, of sorrow, of the guilt for everything he’s done was translated wrong by the suit. He was unable to truly express himself from within the prison Palpotine placed him and he knew it was all his own doing.
You should listen to the French version of that scene. You can hear his voice of the voice modulator and it adds a bit to the scene. As though his despair couldn't be contained by the machine.
![On Writing: Great Character Descriptions! [ Rowling | Dragon Tattoo | Gatsby | Pratchett ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vL0q15Kkews/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Great Character Descriptions! [ Rowling | Dragon Tattoo | Gatsby | Pratchett ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: Mentor Characters [ Iroh l Obi-Wan l Cersei l Lupin ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/djnao3Ey3zc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
Which character death hurt YOU most? Stop asking if I'm fine after Bridge to Terabithia I'M FINE OKAY?! go try campfire you cowards bit.ly/HFM3-21 use HFM21 to receive 20% lifetime purchases - on Momo's command
Bridge to Terabithia
One of the most emotional stories I've read
That may have been the first book I'd cried reading
Could you make a video about how a story can be compelling *without* killing a major character?
... Bridge to Terabithia
Thanks for bringing up some childhood trauma that I'd forgotten about👍
My friend and I called our marijuana spot Terabithia after we had to read it in 9th grade 😂
Glad to see Momo taking command... I have been missing the feline overlords, especially the late, great, Supreme Leader Mishka....
the imagery from your two robots at the end of the world story was strikingly beautiful
I want this book.
I know it probably wasn't intentional, but it's such a flex to casually drop possibly the best bit of writing before revealing "it's actually me!"
Strikingly beautiful indeed
I did not see his segment coming, his segment almost brought me to tears. I mean, it just hit different.
You're absolutely right. I was wondering, why I hadn't heard of Two Robots at the End of the World because the excerpt was so moving I had to pause to write a comment. Really impressive and mad respect for putting his work out there like this.
Right?? The way that the narrator said the word "Motherboard?" gave me full body CHILLS
*Me:* "Ugh, I can't stand cliche and melodramatic dialogue during death scenes..."
*An anime protagonist to their fallen friend:* "It'll be okay... no one can hurt you anymore."
*Me, sobbing and nodding along:* "N-no one can hurt them anymore..."
OW
Why I oughta- how DARE you call me out like this.
you gotta remember though that it's not out of character or tonally inconsistent with the world. Because chances are the rest of that anime was also melodramatic it's perfectly consistent with the way characters act in that story.
Reminds me of "a little fall of rain" and "on my own", two of the songs from Les Miserables.
Yeah I immediately thought of Japanese media when he was talking about melodrama, and how Japanese anime and TV is very melodramatic but it's still emotionally moving. I wonder what it is that separates the good melodrama from the bad melodrama. *scratches head*
Speaking of robots, I cried when WALL-E lost his memory and his curiosity, turning him into the soulless robot designed to only clean out trash, while EVE desperately tries to call him out and shake him back his memories. I love your story about the last robots, but it also makes me shattered, you sick monster
Just reading about that scene of WALL-E & EVE again brought tears to my eyes. 😢
Not that getting me to cry is hard, though. Anytime I try to make a pie I break down because making the crust is so difficult. That consistency so that rolling it out isn't a problem is such a hassle to get. Just making dough for the pie crust.... 😢
You may not be able to tell, but I've been baking lately... or rather prepping for baking.
Pixar is king of making grown people cry their eyes out. Just sayin'.
There's was a bit of irony too,, where WALL-E tries to open his feelings to her at the start.
@@EMPerror403 excellent symmetry there.
Well fuck haven't watched this movie in years and forgot about that happening
_Well fuck_
Speaking of Stephen King, one of the things that really sticks in my mind is how he described the death of his mother in his autobiography: "The pauses between breaths became longer and longer. Eventually, there was no breath and it was all pause."
.
Damn
dude, the Toaster and Motherboard scene was so touching, it made me feel things without even knowing the characters or fully understanding the setting, bravo. and the fact that Toaster is trying to mimick human behaviour in such a moment, doesn't have the equipment to do so, but still goes for it... it just hits the spot, you know?
"I got in an expert" "Hi I'm Sean Bean" got me too damn good, well played.
I legit low-key shrieked 😂
Came to the comments to look for this, got me good too lol
The foremost authority on dying.
I know his death is a meme, but Ned Stark is truly the gold standard example of how to kill a character properly imo. His death causes SO many ripple effects and kickstarts so many characters journeys. I used to think George R.R. Martin was just killing for no reason, but I definitely think he is meticulous about it.
Edit: Ned Stark's death is also a great example of subverting expectations imo. It combines many different elements to create a perfect moment, and I think that takes real talent. His death feels right, it doesn't feel cheap. It hurts, but it makes sense.
Another that's up there not in terms of creating a domino effect, but in terms of EXPLAINING the domino effect in a story is Snape's death. Severus is kind of the cause of everything that happens in the series. He told Voldemort about the prophecy, but clearly regretted it the rest of his life. His death is one that's hard to process cause you think you're supposed to hate this character, but then you see his memories, his love of Lily, his being a double spy for her, protecting Harry for her, and you want to be able to ACTUALLY TALK with Severus about this but.....you can't. You can't cause you just have his memories to speak for him. And you have to discern what you've seen for yourself. I like to think after it all, that Harry had at least one conversation with Severus' portrait in the Headmaster's office (because HE BETTER HAVE A PORTRAIT IN THERE DAMMIT ROWLING) to once and for all bury the hatchet with the Potions Master.
lol
Yess so true
Yes! Oh it was just so. Good. THIS is how you subvert expectations. Not just death for death's sake, but a real connected web explaining why someone would 'randomly' die mid development and the consequences of that action on the rest of the world.
just because something is a meme doesn't mean is not good or meaningfull, the dog quimera is also a meme and everyone agrees it's inpactfull and sad. people just like joking with stuff. his death is a very important and was foreshadowed in ep 1
oh shit, I just inevitably remembered GOT was ruined, oh no! the pain!!!
"Killing people is fun, isn't it."
Given the topic at hand I'm surprised I didn't see that intro coming.
When at the end he says "have fun with it!" jajajajajaja 😂❤️
I think Umberto Ecco stated that he only wrote 'The Name of the Rose' because he had always wanted to kill a monk ;)
It was either that or
"KILLING PEOPLE IS COMPLICATED"
The reading from 50 Shades of Gray had me laughing out loud. Great acting
About the writer for 50 Shades of Grey, what was he smoking? 🤔
Remind me to stay from that at all costs! 😨
@@pendragon0905 wait, wasnt the author female?? did i miss a memo
@@polinet.5712
Nah. That just shows you how much I'm unfamiliar with that book that I'm not even getting the author's gender right... since I know nothing about it. 😑👍
The reader there was another RUclipsr I follow. She's great and you can tell she was having sooo much fun with it.
@@pendragon0905 Well I mean it started as Twilight fanfiction so....
“And the ending is real tight like a rope that will never snap”
DON’T DO THAT TO ME DAMMIT THAT BOOK MESSED WITH ME AS A KID
I read that book every year so I can have a good cry.
That one got a real dark chuckle out of me XD
“And the ending is really tight like a rope that won’t snap.” You’re a monster Tim. A monster!
Oh wait now i get it
Jesus
Yes! I was like WTF Tim!
I openly said fuck you Tim
I still don't get it.
@@tiph3802 A year late but basically at the end of the book the girl who he became friends with died after the rope they swung across the creek with snapped and she hit her head and died
Mufasa from the 'Lion King' comes to mind when I think of "meaningful death." He gets a solid character arc before being tossed off the cliff by a conniving coward brother. Simba comes over, pokes at his dad's lifeless body, cries. What he represented to everyone is the entire story. Made me cry like the kid I was, and it is still one of the best moments in Disney animation.
Good call. I also like how they did the death itself. I know it's a kid's movie, so they couldn't show a splatter of blood and guts. But the important part was the betrayal from Scar: They showed Mufasa's utter disbelief as he fell, and then it cut before impact, next going to the quiet after the stampede (good juxtaposition) and Simba's sorrow.
Did you ever notice that the skull looks like a lion's skull when Scar does his song? I have always wondered if that was Mufasa's skull.
"'Motherboard?' said Toaster, but he was alone." He's alone, Tim. How could you do that. He's just a toaster. God, him asking for Motherboard after she ran out of power! I was already upset at Bridge to Terebithia, the Doctor, and Boromir, but I don't even know Toaster here. Ouch. If you were worried that we wouldn't like it, you don't have to anymore. I'm going to pause to cry. You did good.
EDIT: not you bringing up what happened to Donna that's just rude
OH NO IS TOASTER'S DEATH IN THIS VID???? I had literally completely forgotten about that movie, and that death, THE MOST TRAGIC THING IN MY CHILDHOOD. THIS IS THE WEIRDEST FEELING OF NOSTALGIC SADNESS WHAT
Or this comment could be about something completely different, haven't watched the vid yet, but thanks for reminding me of a movie I had completely forgotten I once loved. 👍 Even if I'm sad now
Yup, just got to that point in the vid, not at all about the movie I was thinking of. Ah well, good memory.
If you imagine it is Talkie Toaster from Red Dwarf it will hurt less.
@@tintinaus Beat me to it. :)
The Tenth Doctors Death-Episode is a Giant Failure
in Terms of the Death itself.
Firstly, because its not Death. Regeneration does not equal Death,
thats just someone this Actor made-up and it really shows.
This Epic Failure of him spouting nonsense about Regeneration
and whining an entire Episode, when others regenerate with
the words "Shut up, mom! I'm concentrating on a new Shoe-Shize!" is epic failure indeed.
-So to summarize a big Topic.
“Feel free to tell me why you’re wrong in the comments” what a line
Talking about Iroh, Lu Ten's death is a great example of what you explained about a character not needing to be known by the reader/watcher for their death to be meaningful and to cause strong feelings. We knew throughout Avatar that Iroh's son died, so it's not a surprise at all, but we face the reality of his dead alongside Iroh in Tales of Ba Sing Se, and it hits hard...
Bridge to Terabithia rocked me as a kid. I was literally in denial until the end, convinced it was a fake out because I couldn't accept it.
Yes same. I did not accept it. Because every other kid media faked out their deaths
First book I ever read that even approached death like that
The Tenth Doctors Death-Episode is a Giant Failure
in Terms of the Death itself.
Firstly, because its not Death. Regeneration does not equal Death,
thats just someone this Actor made-up and it really shows.
This Epic Failure of him spouting nonsense about Regeneration
and whining an entire Episode, when others regenerate with
the words "Shut up, mom! I'm concentrating on a new Shoe-Shize!" is epic failure indeed.
-So to summarize a big Topic.
Seriously, that death stuck with me to this day
I saw it at a birthday party when I was nine and sobbed uncontrollably in front of like 20 of my friends. Shit hit me hard
One death that hit me like a loaded truck was Theoden in the books. You generally have this idea of kings as these regal, distant figures, but Theoden is incredibly kind, down to earth. He even tells Merry that he'd wish to see the Shire and smoke pipeweed with him, after all this is over. He still feels he has to redeem himself from being controlled for so long, and then he just, dies.
Nothing can hit you hard. You're cheese.
*CHARCUTERIE BOARD HAS ENTERED THE CHAT*
Plus it was the extra tragedy of theoden not knowing Eowyn was the one who killed the nazgul mount. I understand that the films making theoden see her is more satisfying, but less tragic.
Dude, yes! That one hits so hard.
"Think of me when you sit in peace with your pipe..."
One thing to note on Ned Stark’s beheading is the fact that his death was ordered by Jeoffrey, to Ilyn Payne. In ep. 1 of GoT it’s shown how he beheads the deserter from the Night’s Watch, and goes so far as to tell Bran “The man who passes the sentence must swing the sword”. The way his journey began, compared to how it ended was so profoundly painful, tragic, yet at the same time, touching and impactful on so many levels.
Honestly, I loved this death, because it is about how "good men" die to "bad men" and not by the most just, fair, or proper way.
Oh my gosh, I just realized that. What a great bit of symmetry and bookending the season, and a great way to reinforce how diametrically opposite Ned and Joffrey are as characters.
Ned Stark's death is truly tragic. He is accused of treachery and conspiring to steal the Iron Throne from Joffrey. As Ned falsely admits to his crime before the people. A careless and spiteful Joffrey ignores Sansa's plea for Ned to live and Cersei's suggestion that Ned gets sent to the Night's Watch and orders Ned to be executed. Man! What a way to go.
It's even better than that. His approach to execution is basically "don't do it unless you have no other choice". His own beheading was the opposite of that. Plenty of alternatives, a counter-productive move, and ultimately done out of spite and power-tripping.
That's narrative symmetry!
Honestly, Toaster and Motherboard was the best thing I’ve heard in a good while. It’s going to stick with me. So glad you shared.
I literally just rewatched Donna's "death" last night. I'd forgotten how rough it was.
Oof every time I think about it I’m back on the verge of tears
Omg, her death breaks my heart everytime
Lol wow, good job Campfire. That was a smart play, made for one of the most convincing sponsors i've seen.
I know, right? Fit so damn perfectly.
+
You. I recognize you. I have seen your vids. I have consumed them and they have produced the dopamine in my head. My basement people appreciate that dopamine greatly, for it means less time spent extracting it from their suffering.
@@jimothyworldbuilding3664 ruclips.net/video/UJu5EBld50c/видео.html
@@Vanziethel You shall join them.
I think that Vader crushing everything around him with the Force after learning of Padmé's death is pretty good. That is how grief feels: it is actually shocking that the rest of the world is NOT torn apart by one's grief too, and in fact kust continues without noticing it at all. It is just the "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" that is melodramatic.
Rest of his life is him just crushing things with the force, including himself.
The reaction is fine imo ("nooooouuuuu" is a tad much I agree). But the death as such is ruined by the droids line before. Maybe someone has an anecdote of something similar happening, but "loosing the will to live" right after conceiving two children was baffling to me, even before I became a parent myself. In my headcanon it was the combination of labour/pregnancy and chocking/violence that killed her.
Agreed, anger and lashing out would feel right. Even denying it, not just shouting "nooo" but a "no, you're lying, that can't be true" or lashing out at Palpatine would have been far better. But the long howling "nooooooo" just rings so hollow.
i've always found the "no no nonononono" reaction to be more realistic than the "NOOOOOOOOOOO" reaction, I feel like the second is kind of overly theatrical, while the prior feels like the character is kind of stuck in the moment
@@matt_9112 right I'm like "hey hi you have two children to care for?" but I think that well....I mean parenting is HARD. Imagine being a single mother, in a galaxy now ruled by the empire, an empire YOUR HUSBAND helped create....and children you HAVE to hide from said husband you love entirely. That....I....I mean that could very well break just about anyone.
Note to Story Studiers who Want To Write Things:
- Write something that makes sense to you.
- Wait a whole week.
- Reread it and edit it.
- Tell yourself you're an excellent writer.
This video made me feel better about my own death scenes in my work, and your advice is some of the best. More people should spread the real reality of writing, rather than the expectation that you write and make perfect art on the first try.
Rereading and editing is 90% of writing for me. It makes it so much easier to just slap the first draft of something on the paper cause I can focus on whatever the idea is at the moment and wait until later to see how it fits and add structure etc.
I waited a couple months lol
@@remem95 Same here.
I should do that. But I just hate editing soooo much. (There is also the fact that writing non-fiction, where I have to edit, obviously, is my job, while writing fiction is a hobby. So I can't be bothered to go through the drudgery of editing my fiction. Which yes, does mean it's shit more often than not, but hey, I enjoy it and it does no harm to anyone).
The death of Buffy's mother is one that left a deep mark on me.
And of course the Doctor's regenerations.
That was such a well done episode
yep this is why doing Buffy for Media in Highschool was just so good. So many things you can write about it.
Anya's speech in that episode is one of the few TV or movie scenes that can reliably make me cry
The Body is such a harrowing, deeply moving episode. 10/10.
I can't believe you didn't include the ever-famous "I don't feel so good Mr.Stark" that scene had everyone bawling
okay yeah he didn't really die but- it was good ass writing, because, Peter could feel it from a mile away. When it actually happened however he was just the kid, Peter. No fancy spider-man tricks, no one-liners, he was a scared kid.
Tbh I didn’t think it was very emotional. Marvel can’t do that now a day's
Who was balling at that scene lmao…
@@michaelpowers6551Perfect death is the Ace's scenes.
Luffy hugging Ace who is about to die while crying and then a flashback of Ace asking Garp "Do I deserved to be born?" 😢 then Garp answered "That's something you'll know as you lived your life" Then at the present Ace telling Luffy "Thank You for loving someone like me" 😭
@@michaelpowers6551 almost everyone in the theater when I watched that scene was crying. I was filled with rage at that moment because I love Spider-Man. But Tom and Rob actually killed it in that scene too so really it could be the acting.
A 'Trope Talk' episode and an 'On Writing' episode on the same day, what are the odds??
We've been fed well today
And red making a small cameo????
Im suspicous of a conspiracy here...
Today is a good day
"... the bullet went deep somwhere inside, seeking out the center of his life."
I really like that line, it's so well witten.
Immediately followed by "it wouldnt find it there, Hester was the center of his life"
And now I'm crying
Just popping a note in to say that I felt your writing was quality and belonged with all the other examples you gave. I wouldn’t have known which one was yours. Plus, you know, a comment might help the vid :-) (edit: but not the bad examples of course...)
When I was little, Bridge to Teribithia was my absolute favourite film and was the first story that really exposed me to grief. I was in complete denial. Poor 8 year old me told myself that she didn't die but that she went to live with mermaids in the river. Despite the trauma, I still rented it every few weeks from the video store.
I literally added ‘Two Robots at the End of the World’ to my Read list in my phone notes, I was wondering if any of my book stores had it. That’s beautiful
Ok so it seems like they use Peter in Avengers Endgame and "we won Mr Stark" to juaxtapose against Iron Man's death. The victory juxtaposes with the sacrifice
What was always interesting in that scene to me is that Pepper seems to accept it quickly. I say “seems” because she later is shown to really grieve and cry, but it’s as if she puts on a brave face for Tony’s last moments so that he (and the audience) don’t immediately worry about her. She and Morgan be okay, and she takes care to to tell Tony right away (but again, I feel like she’s really telling us, too).
This way, the writers guide us towards the tragedy and heroism of Tony’s death. We spend much less time worrying about if he can survive or trying to comprehend what happened and we go right into accepting it, cause all of the characters are accepting it too. In a franchise where people are always surviving impossible odds and coming back from death, it’s important that the writers make sure the audience doesn’t mistake their important death scene as just another “rise from near death” moment
@@tkri also! she says "you can rest now" which is a callback to an earlier scene talking about how tony can't let anything be and always has to be the one to find the solution no matter the cost etc.
in conclusion, you have the finished character arc, the literary symmetry (i am iron man), the juxtaposition (we won, mr stark), the foreshadowing (doctor strange holding up the finger) and the peaceful death (you can rest now), making it an impactful and cry-worthy death.
Bridge to Terabithia, I'm still not over that one and its been over 10 years.
I just read “Forever Interrupted” by Taylor Jenkins Reid, and the book opens with the POV character’s husband dying. Her hopeless thoughts are so powerful in how small they are. The line that made me cry was “I caught a glimpse of my face in the mirror, it’s red and swollen. To think that someone actually loved that face. And now he’s gone. And now nobody loves my face anymore” and I’m her grief she says “I really really want to stop being so mean” realizing how she’s snapping at her loved ones because of her grief when she doesn’t mean to. The small relatability was so real. Great video as always!
*the title includes Terabithia*
Me: "Don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry"
Literally, Leslie's death is one of only two character deaths that have ever made me cry. And I've seen a lot of characters die.
The only character death that made me cry, and I was weeping
Never understood the appeal od terabithia tbh, the whole book felt like a setup for the death, and the death itself was so meh ,leslie was a superficial character that i didnt care for
@Wuru what is that supposed to mean?
@Mikafella chan ok and?
Bro that character death hit me hard, I was forced to read it for school in freaking 5th grade
What an amazing analysis. Also, I loved your writing, man. I got a sense of the whole story from that section alone.
One thought about George R.R. Martin: I was surprised you didn't mention The Red Wedding in the catharsis section. Part of why that was so painful is that Arya was finally about to reunite with her mother. The readers had followed her over thousands of pages only to have half her family killed at the last minute.
That 50 Shades reading was hilarious. Putting the Mozart music behind it was a nice touch.
I loved the 10th doctor and his regeneration was very impactful, however I’ve always liked the regenerations where the doctor accepts that this part of their life is over and it’s time to move on to the next. That acceptance of change is more fitting for a wisened traveler like the doctor, not raging to resist death but simply accepting it when their time comes
Making the 10ths exit from the series so painful and drawn out made a lot of people feel that this was the end of the character and series as a whole, when it really was just another step in the journey of a very very old being
A line from my personal favorite regeneration: “I will always remember when the doctor was me”
I remember hearing the case made that, since the Tenth Doctor was so reluctant to regenerate and that he *never got over it,* it kind of stacked the cards against Matt Smith from the get-go. Like, here's this guy whom the audience is at this point already immensely attached to, in his final episode before he's replaced by another actor whom, justifiably or not, the very same people who love the current guy are really apprehensive about. And then you make the old guy's last words a tearful "I don't wanna go" before the soundtrack starts wailing out in unrestrained grief? Followed then by the *extreme* whiplash of Matt Smith's introduction being mega goofy? Like... intentionally or not that does kinda feel like it's setting the audience up to immediately dislike Eleven. And Smith also didn't get what Tennant got during his intro, which is a whole episode actually acknowledging the fact that the change might be difficult to accept wherein he eventually proves himself to the other characters in the story; Smith's first episode only features new characters. Of course he did get the "Hello. I'm the Doctor" moment which is phenomenal and honestly I think Smith had *easily* the best introductory episode out of all the modern era Doctors (can't comment on how he compares to classic era Doctors as I haven't seen a lot of them) but... he did start off with a bit of a handicap because of how Tennant was written out.
@@thelordstarfish I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think there's always apprehension with a new Doctor, but that's why their first episode is so crucial. People might have been apprehensive about Matt Smith, but I think that winning the approval of the audience in that first episode is all the more impactful for it. I think both Ten and Eleven had great regeneration scenes and I think they were actually in a way one story arc for The Doctor that culminated in the 50 year anniversary special. We saw him go through several stages of processing and internalising the Time War and the role he played in the genocide of his people. Ten's reluctance to regenerate is showcased twice in two very different contexts. The first time, he's just been reunited with Rose. He doesn't want to go because he finally regained the woman he loves and wants to experience that. He feels like he's been given a good thing, a reward and he perhaps for the first time since the war begins to feel like he might just deserve a little bit of good in his life. But he then loses her again, he loses his best friend and then he's faced with the choice of losing either his life or his identity as The Doctor (if he had chosen not to save Wilf). It's like all the good things in his life have been stripped away and now he will never have the opportunity to ever experience any other good things. Not as who he was then. Then comes Eleven, who distances himself from all that Ten was. He remodels the TARDIS, he's goofier and more childish than before. He looks younger than his previous regenerations. And he runs away faster than ever before. Only to finally be confronted with Ten, the War Doctor and his role in the Time War. He is finally able to come to terms with his decision and he now has hope for the future. So when it's his time to regenerate, he can accept it more easily. It's still emotional and it's still scary, but when Ten regenerated, he felt hopeless and done dirty by the universe. When Eleven regenerated, he had just been granted another set of regenerations, he had friends, he had saved Christmas and his home planet and his people were out there. He had hope.
I've been wanting to say for a while that I appreciate the way you recap your writing episodes. Specifically your use of the words "Firstly, secondly," etc. because my high school speech and debate coach made me edit those words out of my own speech because "people don't talk like that." It's a little thing, but it feels vindicating after all these years to hear those words and nobody caring about them.
Those kind of structural words are even more important in a formal debate when your communication is supposed to be optimised for clarity, as well as persuasiveness. Nothing makes you look like you’re winning rhetorically than delivering three or more excellent points in quick succession, and nothing lays that out clearer than numbering them. Seems to me like a personal gripe of that teacher’s that was projected on to you
It's a lot easier for people to hear "you've just got 7 points to remember" than a big long paragraph with no distinction made between points, so I'm glad you appreciate it!
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe I'm making notes on your On Writing videos, so the summaries are most definitely useful, so thank you :)
@@HelloFutureMe
The Tenth Doctors Death-Episode is a Giant Failure
in Terms of the Death itself.
Firstly, because its not Death. Regeneration does not equal Death,
thats just someone this Actor made-up and it really shows.
This Epic Failure of him spouting nonsense about Regeneration
and whining an entire Episode, when others regenerate with
the words "Shut up, mom! I'm concentrating on a new Shoe-Shize!" is epic failure indeed.
-So to summarize a big Topic.
@@TAP7a NO one talks in formal rhetoric; but, that is why we make speeches and have debate clubs: so you can enumerate the ways in which your argument is correct and your opponents' is flawed.
Goodness, Tim, I cried at the death scene in Two Robots at the End of the World. Beautiful work!
When you talked about melodrama, what I immediately thought was “extreme displays of emotion CAN work, if they make sense.”
And the example I thought of is a powerful one.
Phillip Hamilton’s death in Hamilton, and Eliza’s scream. It’s perfect. It fits, it makes sense, and it’s devastating.
But it works because it fits the situation (losing a child), it’s shocking (coming immediately after he dies, with a song that gets quieter and quieter. So it contrasts the deafeningly quiet death with a deafeningly loud scream). And it’s also not some “Nooooo”, drawn out, way too long. It’s just long enough. And it’s a painful scream, full of emotion, holding nothing back. I only imagine, if Darth Vader had a guttural, shorter, less controlled and unbalanced “AAAAH” type of scream, maybe bending over as the room collapses around him, instead of what they did, Anakin’s pain would feel more genuine.
Also, the medium definitely helps too. Describing a scream like that on a page would likely not work. But because it’s theater, something big and theatrical works.
ooooo yea writing a scream and hearing a scream would be totally different thats a great point! Feel like thats why a lot of people's comments about what counted as melodramatic was throwing me off at first
Exactly. Musical theater is a more, well, THEATRICAL medium than most so having Eliza scream the way she does isn't as melodramatic in that medium as it would be in another.
Killing characters is probs one of the most interesting conversations in writing. Ironically, I was planning on writing an article on it for my high school’s newspaper, a few days before the community post announcing this video 😂. But I guess where I’m going with this is that my article thing highlighted that we cannot thank you enough for your videos Tim, because they really do go through subjects on writing which I think interest everyone watching and give us so many amazing pieces of writing advice.
@@SPDRM don't feed the trolls, just report them
That 50 Shades narration is priceless.
Ugh, hearing that passage scarred my brain... Such. Bad. Writing.
You need to hear the Gilbert Gottfried one.
I loved the Two Robots example. It takes a bit for a death scene out of context to really make you feel something, and I thought it really did a good job.
Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood's main early death (perhaps overly cautious as far as spoilers, but eh) really got to me in its handling. I loved how it continued to have tremendous impact right to the end of the show. It changed other characters in interesting ways, it made sense to the plot, and the sheer feels were overwhelming.
Yeah this was the first death that came to mind when I thought about death in relation to other characters.
It was shocking to the audience, spurred Ed, Al, and Winry along their character arcs. It created a small descent into madness and moral question for Mustang’s character. And it also caused us to absolutely hate Envy.
Introducing the characters Wife and Child just episodes before was such a slap in the face from author.
I love amazing Spidermans Gwen Stacy's death, I love the way Andrew is in complete denial, they way he says stay with me when it's clear she's dead is heart breaking, but it does border the meladramatic.
does it? I feel like it makes sense no?
Okay so this might be a strange answer for favorite death scene. My dad is a retired history teacher, and when I was a kid, we watched the Gettysburg miniseries. When General Armistead died, I lost it, and I still cry a little every time I remember it (I am right now, oh my goodness) It was Armistead dying, hearing his friend General Hancock has been shot, cries out, "Not both of us! Not all of us! Please, God!" and it just broke my heart. It was the first time I remember being so deeply affected by a death in media.
A close second, and more recent, is Castlevania. When Dracula is fighting Alucard and, seeing a picture of his dead wife, Lisa, stops and wonders aloud, "My boy. I'm killing my boy. Lisa, I'm killing our boy." I think about that one...a lot.
I didn't think I would feel that much when Dracula died. Those lines hit hard in the most unexpected way. Very well written death.
That was Red who read the section from Misery, wasn’t it? 🎉 Red should do audiobooks.
Just wanna say, the two robots at the end of the world was so well written. I really wish I could read an entire short story around it. That was so well done. Fantastic job
Who knows? There may be a video in the works that will make you very happy.
~ Tim
"And I got in an expert"
"Hi I'm Sean Bean".
I died.
Pun totally intended.
Also Sean Bean every character he plays isn't just dyeing his character needs to be sacrificed to make the movie or show he is in to be good and the sooner his character dies the better the story his character is in and if his character miraculously survives the movie he is in sucks.
Has Sean Bean voice-acted anyone who didn't die?
@@liondovegm Not sure about voice-acted but he was Zeus in Percy Jackson and he certainly didn't die there.
Idk
I know he's famous for character sacrifice since TES4 Oblivion
@@h2o21075 Sean Bean also survived in The Martian, though he was sacked when he took responsibility for the mission going off script. He also didn't die in the Sharp series, though not for lack of trying. (On a side note, I just realised that his given and surname only differ by their beginning letters.)
I’d like to give mention to Lenore’s death in the Netflix adaptation of Castlevania in season 4. The convo that was had with Hector before she steps into the sunlight for the 1st time before burning to dust was so poignant.
OMG AGREED 😭😭😭😭😭
Her death I get why for the story, but fuck did it piss me off
Don't care how well the scene was written or how it will affect Hector's growth. All I was really feeling was the lose of a super interesting female character, who also showed how complicated the vampires can be. Whatever the story gets out of her death, I feel does not compare to what it could have had with her life.
Also her just giving up and dying, I understand why she did that but I think she could have easily built a small haven for herself and her sisters (other than Camilla) in a new land.
But ugh she kill the super interesting lady for the moody bois growth
I'm so glad Tim brought in the expert of character deaths: Sean Bean.
I loved your writing. Juxtaposition from a happy memory to a painful death was great, but also the juxtaposition in humor. Motherboard and toaster are funny names for inhuman robots, so why do I feel the need to cry for them? It was gorgeous. You did an amazing job. Thanks for the video
Thank you so much! Means a lot to say. The names 'Motherboard' and 'Toaster' came from these robots looking at human civilisation and trying to see how they might have fit in. Toaster is a small robot, so he thought he might be a toaster.
~ Tim
Donna's death was heartbreaking and really got to me, but in hindsight it kinda illustrates a flaw of the Doctor, especially of Ten, that he always thinks he knows best. Contrast this with Clara's "death" with Twelve. He starts to do the same thing to her, to rob her of her experiences in order to "save" her, but she has enough of a warning that she's able to turn the tables on him: "Tomorrow is promised to no-one, Doctor, but I insist upon my past. I am entitled to that. It's mine." It's a choice that Donna was robbed of, that Ten took from her without her permission.
I have to disagree. Donna was going to die if he did nothing, Ten had to erase her memories. That's why there is tragedy to it. Clara was already dead at this point. She had died two episodes prior. In an episode about how you have to face your death instead of running from it, in fact. So by bringing her back from the dead, any impact the decision has is pointless. Why go through all the trouble of brining back this character if one of them is going to forget all of their experiences. The writing in Hell Bent is terrible.
@@bbh6212 Hell Bent is definitely flawed but I will defend the Clara/Donna mindwipe. Even if 10 is saving her life, Donna was saying no. He had to separate her from anyone else who would try and stop this and forcibly remove the memories even as she begged him not to.
That's a hard image to shake and I'm glad the series eventually addressed it
@Jason Tamez Congratulations, you figured out the true point of Hell Bent, it only took me six years
@@bbh6212 ok but Heaven Sent is a masterpiece so Hell Bent gets some bonus points for merely being related to it lol (although honestly much more loosely than the names would imply)
@@Ben-vf5gk Moffat's era as a whole has a running theme of the importance of memories as a key part of a person's identity, so it makes sense that they'd really address the idea of how f*cked up it is to remove a person's memory without consent. You could kind of argue that Donna's exit kind of tackled that, but Clara's exit really went in on this angle, and I definitely appreciate that part of the episode
“But he was alone” in your short story struck me surprisingly hard. Like, harder than some of the other deaths in the video which I had actually experienced through a full read or watch of their story. Point is, your writing is good
Attack on Titan does this well in season 3 with Commander Erwin. He dies before finding out the answers hidden in the basement. His character arc ends very well, we the audience find out of course but he as a character does not. He misses out on his goal by that much
he also refused the one thing that could've saved his life so armin could live in his place. erwin deserved to die not as a punishment, but so after a long life of sacrificing his soldiers in pursuit of humanity's freedom, he could finally join them and rest.
YES, exactly what I thought of! I get the people who were upset that Armin was chosen to live instead of Erwin, BUT if he hadn't died there, his arc of seeing the basement and finding out that there are other humans would've been finished, and nothing else would be particularly satisfying about his character after that. Killing him off had the most potential impact right then and there, and I also thought it was 'right' because he was sacrificing himself along with his scouts, showing that he truly lives (and dies) by his ideals. He knew his time in the lead was up, and his death symbolically handed over the narrative to the younger generation. Great character, with a great arc. Damn, I need to rewatch it again.
oh my god why does the name Erwin pop up so much-
I wrote a character named Erwin who even *I* hate, and since then I see the name *everywhere* ... help
“You can still make your characters cry. Have fun with it”
The philosophy that gives me fictional PTSD!
Enjoyed hearing my favorite book tuber Merphey on this channel.
I’m reading through the final Dark Materials book and felt my heart drop when I heard the death of Lee again. Give me back my damn Texan.
Ugh!!! That "I don't want to go" always makes me cry. Good lord, part of me always thinks it was also David Tenant saying he didn't want to stop being the doctor.
I would have been interested to hear your thoughts on deaths in stories like “I have no mouth and I must scream” and shows like “Cowboy Bebop”. Great content thanks for the video
I honestly think the story that he wrote was really good. I was feeling the emotions and then he revealed it was his own story and I was like that was a good way to do a death scene
I've come up with a funny death scenes for a elf general that is in command of a Griffin cavalry. He gets drunk in a tall tower and accidentally falls out.
Elf: "You know all that drinking is gonna be the death of you."
Elf General: " Oh please what's the worst that can happen ?"
@@Nio744 Window: Hold my beer.
bruh, why'd a start tearing up at a video essay...
my man's good
Ladyknightthebrave's reading is so camp I love it. Fully embrace the melodrama
29:45 - 29:49 I NEARLY CHOKED ON MY OWN BREATH
hearing the phrase "thick milky" outside of the context of that one Moviestruck episode made me fucking *lose it*
So glad I'm not the only one.
14:10 Even seeing those little bits of The Green Mile gets the emotion to well up. Every time I watch that movie - or even read the book - it wrecks me, and it starts well before the death ("I'm tired, boss.").
I cannot state enough how frustrating it is when the death has no effect on the story. A beloved character dies and you mourn their absence, but the characters dont. the story doesnt. in the moment yes, but it moves on really fast. if they dont leave behind a space unfilled (that takes time to heal), its feels like they didnt matter. if it doesnt bring something to the table *only this could* and you could replace them with any other character, it feels cheap, meaningless. and it is the biggest turn off in a story. it can negate all the other well done parts cuz it immediately lessens how much i care about the story moving forward
prime example: natasha in endgame
Example: Most of the characters that died in The Deathly Hollows. Like damn, Cedric that only got developed for 1 book had more impact to the story than the deaths of Lupin, Tonks, Hedwig and Fred. I know that they are at war and deaths are expected for all the characters even the fan favourites. But the fact that Harry didn't get to grieve (or really we as the readers didn't see the grieve he had) after the war and they just did a time skip is so underwhelming.
@@kikilala9371 Oh, wow you're so right. Cedric's death, especially the scene where Harry and him come back, is always so gut-wrenching. But the others in Deathly Hollows are basically nothing.
This this this!!! To never or hardly bring the character up again is such a let down
Oh this is sooooo annoying! Viggo in Race to the Edge is the first one I think of, but there's like a million more. In season 6 of clone wars maybe, nobody even mentioned Ahsoka (she didn't die, but ya know, she did leave and Anakin didn't seem to be affected by it)
One of the best written deaths in HP in my opinion, is actually tied. Sirius Black and Severus Snape.
Movie Sirius Black's death is bar none THE most painful thing to witness because it's just the music, and Daniel Radcliffe screaming. AND I MEAN SCREAMING. Apparently, his screams were so horrific and real and raw, that it made several people on set cry, and they couldn't use the audio for it. Hence the music. In the books everything happens so fast it's hard to process it until it's all said and done-which is realistic. And Harry's breakdown in Dumbledore's office, ALSO incredible, a standout moment from the series and ALSO again realistic. This kid went through SO much SHT that year, he finally had enough. Of course he snapped. And his death hurts us cause it was Harry's one chance at having a family taken away. It sucks.
Now for Severus, that's more complicated. He's introduced to us readers as while not outright a villain, someone not to be trusted. Harry never trusts Severus, and his distrust is proven right seemingly, when the night of the Astronomy tower occurs. But the movies put an interesting spin on it-the look on Severus' face is one of many flickering emotions-anger, hate, rage, pain...he clearly doesn't relish in killing Dumbledore, but the books doesn't really shed light on that.
So when Severus is murdered, it's left the readers feeling a lot of things....mostly confusion at feeling sad because this wasn't the most pleasant of men to be around. AND THEN you see his memories and just everything clicks but it's not all resolved either...There's still the debate YEARS later on what kind of man Severus was; if he deserves to be called a hero or not.....MY GOD Severus is such a well written character his complexity is top notch and THAT'S what makes his death to me anyways, incredibly heartbreaking. You want to learn more about this person you thought you were supposed to hate, you want to have all these conversations with them but now....you can't. And that hurts. It also shows, that you don't have to have a WELL LIKED character in order for that character's death to leave an impact. And Severus' death is something I think GOT tried to follow (at least show wise) but didn't really grasp for several not well liked characters.
My problem with with Snape isn't that he had a badly done redemption, but that it had the potential to be pulled off much better with only minor changes.
@@Nemo12417 what would the minor changes be for you? I think the film handled Snape really well-it's the books that kind of have him as this antihero/leaning toward villainy RIGHT up until the end. In the movies, he's definitely more of an antihero until half blood prince when you think him full villain. I think one change in the books, that would help, is actually something the movies only did-have Severus protect the trio from Lupin. In POA, he's unconscious during that scene, and ranting to Dumbledore about Sirius after. Not a good light for Snape which makes you think he's just out to settle old scores. But in the movie he's full on protecting the trio he hates from a WEREWOLF. That's....pretty Gryffindor for a Slytherin lol.
For me Cedric's death in the movie, not specifically when it happens but when Harry arrives back in front of the maze, hits really hard. The band kicking off and then suddenly petering away when they realise something's wrong, his father's cries. For me that's probably the most hard hitting death in the movies
Oh my God. Yes. Sirius's death was so so so painful. Especially because I always had a twinge of hope they would save him. Remember Luna's conversation with Harry about hearing voices or something? And then when the series ended and that mever happened, I felt like he had died all over again.
@@haydentempest3874 I remember people kinda joking about his father's actors....acting in that scene. I remember people thought it was too much or OVER DRAMATIC but I think it was spot on. Anyone who's a parent would know that a parent's WORST fear and worst pain is having to bury their child. OF COURSE Cedric's father would be just screaming in agony over his son's death. Something I noticed just recently, is that Severus actually put his cloak over Cedric's body-when you watch the scene, you see Amos (I think that's his name?) move his hands as if just brushing something away from his son-I thought it was the people around Cedric. But no one other than Dumbledore was near-fake Moody grabbed Harry before Amos got to the body. And in the scene with Albus, Crouch Jr, Snape, and Harry, Snape isn't wearing his cloak. Details like that are why in some instances the movies are better than the books. IMO.
That section with the two robots at the end of the world made me cry a little.... With almost zero context of the story leading up to that point... It's so emotional....
"Killing people is fun, isn't it?"
Me, reading through my practice crime scenes: I feel called out.
Me on my thirtieth draft of a crime short story that's never going to finish: "Why yes I do like hurting other people, why do you ask?"
Me after massacring half my cast: Why yes, it is! And I'm gonna keep doing it!
Me, watching my D&D players talk themselves into a Total Party Kill:
"Fun? No, I would say more . . . educational. Though, of course, *learning is fun!"*
Love your relationship with OSP, the fact you just casually appear on each other!
For some reason the melodrama part reminded me of Calculon’s death in Futurama. He takes poison to literally die on stage during a death scene to try to win an acting competition and still loses lol
"NOOOOOOOOOO! EN!OH! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
"...You'll still make people cry. Have fun with it."
- Timothy Hickson, 2021
Video Suggestion. How to Write Neurodivergent and Neurodivergent Coded Characters
That scene from Robots at the End of the World made me cry... so beautiful and sad
That was unexpected. I literally started crying in the middle of the reading of the passage from Two Robots at the End of the World. I really don’t cry unless I’m very invested in the characters already, but it was just so perfectly written. I’m quite stunned. I had no idea who wrote it-just have to say, well done!
My favorite example of character death comes from a Practical Guide to Evil. Robber, THE fan favorite of the series volunteers for a suicidal last mission, and how EE writes his ending is just soooo beautiful.
I don't agree with one thing: saying "stay with me"doesn't have to be bad. The Clone Wars has a GREAT character death that includes this phrase
I agree that phrases like "stay with me" isn't bad, but my interpretation of what Tim is saying is that excessively expressing the pain, emotions, experience via dialogue alone makes the death scene flat. He says "expressing everything vocally", and he gave a few example phrases that may be commonly used in such a way. I imagine something like a combination of phrases such as," It hurts so much. I see the light", "Don't go to the light! Stay with me! Follow my voice", etc in the same scene may make it feel cheap/unrealistic.
I LOVE clone wars, Fives' death hurt so much, as well as the ending
@@Ashley-xu1lk oh I get it. that's why the NOOOOOOOOOO clip.
now that I think about it anime has a ton of characters screaming over any type of situation. I can't think of a death scene in particular but since they scream all the time I'm sure there are a lot of over reacting in some anime death scenes as well
@@RowanArk OH my God, Fives did not deserve his fate. That scene was so sad, and you feel so badly for Rex.
If it wasn't for Fives we wouldn't have Rex and Ahsoka. Definitely one of, if not the best of the 501st.
Also on a different note, I thought Maul's death scene in Rebels was very well done.
11:38 Great way to let us first hear your story before telling us it was yours. That way I can be even more honest in my opinion: I like your writing. Especially the last sentence gives that thread of lonelines. The mention of 'four percent' marked the ending already, and you've restrained yourself from adding 3, 2, and 1 percent since that wasn't needed anymore.
That "I don't want to go" still ruins me
same
I still cry whenever I see Donna's "end", as well as in the final episode of the series MI-5/Spooks and the fate of Ruth. The movie Up came out a few years after my wife died and, needless-to-say, the opening sequence drove me into an emotional wreck. Bridge to Terabithia was very traumatizing for me as a kid. Oh, yeah, the end of Season 2 of Torchwood. That was another emotional gut punch.
The deaths that affected me the most (Harry Potter and Fullmetal Alchemist spoilers ahead)
Sirius Black was easily the hardest death in the HP books. He was supposed to be the father Harry never had, and if Harry had ever opened the gift Sirius had given him (the mirror), the whole end situation that caused his death could've been avoided. We didn't even get a body.
Hughes' death in Fullmetal Alchemist (original series, not brotherhood) destroyed me. It was so sudden and so intense, I fell off my couch sobbing. He had so much to do, he was such a great character, and he loved his daughter so much. The reason it was more impactful in the original show was there was 30 full episodes where you could get invested in the character and his role in the story. Brotherhood just cliff notes that whole story arc into 10 episodes, so it just didn't mean as much or hit as hard.
I am still angry Sirius died. I will NEVER get over this.
I actually think Dumbledore's death is criminally underrated. I knew the whole way through the story that he had to die in this book, and yet the events which lead up to death still caught me off guard. He is close to death in the cave, but they escape, they arrive at hogwarts to find the dark mark, dumbledore is confronted by malfoy who wants to kill him, dumbledore manages to talk him down, the death eaters show up, and he still seems to be holding his own. And then Snape turns up and he's dead. It's still somehow shocking despite how drawn out it is.
Speaking of Harry Potter, Lupin's and Tonks' death hit me the hardest. I was 10 and I remember literally crying over it
Maybe the reason was that it kinda mirrored Harry's parents' death, and also because it's clear Remus and Tonks didn't get enough time to live together, there was always war and danger around them, they lost their loved ones, and after all that suffering they met such a tragic end. They deserved so much better 😭
@@Musikur my friend spoiled Dumbledore's death, AND who killed him, but I was the ONE person in our friend group who thought Severus was full good guy just a spy, and was like "nahnahnahanhnah" and THEN IT HAPPENED and I legit just tossed the book lol. I was PISSED but like also in straight denial too I was like "wait maybe maybe Snape had no choice I mean he DIDN'T have a choice cause the unbreakable vow he made, but like I dunno maybe there was SOMETHING ELSE to it-" and my friend was like "girl....GET OUT OF HIS CORNER HE MURDERED SOMEONE" lol. And then deathly hallows happens and I WAS SO VINDICATED about Snape but I couldn't feel happy cause he was dead so yeah Snape's death for me is up there in terms of just...IT SUCKS lol.
why does no one ever mention Fred's death? In the books that's HEARTBREAKING. "No! Fred! No!" And Percy was shaking his brother, and Ron was kneeling beside them, and Fred's eyes stared without seeing, the ghost of his last laugh still etched upon his face." I think his last words were something along the lines of "You actually are joking, Perce - I don't think I've heard you joke since you were -" and then that's just IT. The explosion happens and he's just gone. Damn.
I remember when I was a kid and I saw The Hunt For Red October. I have forgotten much of that movie, but I still remember Sam Neil talking about all the things he was going to do when he got to America, buy a pickup truck, marry a round woman, and drive to every state. And then they fucking killed him.
I love Tom Clancy's work. THFRO is a masterpiece and created the techno-thriller sub-genre.
A+ as always 😁
I love your videos! Thanks for this great bit of voice acting too!
Your reading really made it!
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe XD
I never imagined feeling so much emotion for robots that I had no information about or prior connection with
I loved that motherboard was trying to help toaster right up to the end.
I didn't realize how convenient this video was when I clicked on it because I'm in the middle of killing a character right now. Great video!
Two of my most important characters are going to die... So yeah this is very helpful
I never thought that I’d be so sad at the deaths of 2 characters called motherboard and toaster.
TIIIIM!!! YOUR ROBOT DEATH SCENE WAS SOOO GOOD!!! Oml that was amazing. That was the only one of the passages that actually made my eyes watery (i don’t say this to disparage any of the other writings, yours was just SO GOOD). Keep writing, you’re amazing!!
I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW THESE CHARACTERS BUT I CRIED AT MOTHERBOARDS DEATH. Absolutely fantastic job, that was so emotional and I didn't even know most of what was happening, that means a lot
Wow Tim I loved the Robot death and especially how you interpreted their human emotions.
Below is a very short death scene from my book, and it's meant to be. The character who dies is a warrior (think 300 Spartan, even seeking a "good death"), and the killer is the all-powerful High Elder who doesn't respect her race at all:
He spoke louder to Flarak, “You are intelligent… And we are civilized. I will make this quick.”
Everything happened at once. As soon as Domon uttered the words, Flarak lunged from her seat, but she never had a chance-especially shackled as she was. The flare from Domon’s whel was just one more magical light in the room. Dara screamed “no!” as he lifted both of his hands, and the air between he and Flarak shimmered faintly. A gust from one hand pushed Flarak back, then lightning shot from Domon’s other palm. A single, purple bolt struck Flarak in the heart, and she crumpled to the ground.
With this death, I wrap up Flarak's arc, give her a bitter sweet ending, reestablish Domon's power, and firm the divide between him and his Granddaughter (one of the MCs).
Would love anyone's comments or questions. This is my first fantasy novel (will be series of 4), and it's in editing.
Thanks for this. Rewrote a death scene. Another death scene was the first time killing an often used secondary character. I really struggled with committing all that into their being gone. Then I realized what I had was all the reactions of the everyone else. The death of the character isn't necessarily the last mention of the character.
21:30 "Could be the spark of a vengeance quest or a descent into madness" - Marley and me is a lot different than I imagined apparently
damn, Tim, The two robots excerpt got me good. It was awesome and I felt the emotion at every word. masterfully done!
I have been hearing the Campfire Blaze pitch form what feels like years, but I never even considered looking at the site. But when you told the story about how the added a feature you recommended in less than a day, I paused the video and immediately made an account.
Star Wars episode three, revenge of the sith. I postulate that Vader’s “noooooo” is infinitely more heartbreaking than it appears, because it does appear funny. Vader, having just murdered children (which is why he’s crying right before he kills the separatists he feels guilt for doing so) betraying his best friend and dozens, if not hundreds of Jedi, in affect betraying everything that he held dear just to try to save his wife and unborn child. Now I want you to use your perfectly formed voice ox to try and get your seri or Alexa to do an accurate speech to text sentence. I bet you they messed up a few words here or there. Now Vader, having just been burned like a marshmallow that fell off your stick on s’mores night, whose re-assembly and entire surgery was done without anesthetic or putting him to sleep was placed in an ill fitted suit designed to cause him physical and mental torture just found out that his wife was dead. His cry of pain and agony wasn’t the “no” because after that suit goes on we don’t hear him speak again until Luke takes off his mask, his suit speaks for him. The true agony of that scene is that his final primal scream of pain, of sorrow, of the guilt for everything he’s done was translated wrong by the suit. He was unable to truly express himself from within the prison Palpotine placed him and he knew it was all his own doing.
You should listen to the French version of that scene. You can hear his voice of the voice modulator and it adds a bit to the scene. As though his despair couldn't be contained by the machine.
Comment for the algorithm but also,
''You cry a lot when you're alone, don't you Casca?''
Whenever I see the scene of the Ten's doctor dying, I start sobbing, so thanks :'). Amazing video though!
Writers literally make magic
Your fears were totally unfounded; Motherboard’s death there was absolutely amazing!
I got goosebumps when I heard that last line; wonderfully done!
I read "wonderfully alone" HOW did this beautiful man's writing became instantly iconic in my mind with a few out of context paragraphs!🤯