I'm reminded of how, in Victorian England, you had an increase in incredibly wealthy merchant/industrialist families and poor noble families intermarrying to consolidate wealth power and status. Also, note that every class/caste is recursive: there are classes within those classes, and the difference may or may not be recognized outside. To an english lord, you had the head maid and the rest of the maids. To the maids it mattered greatly whether they were a chamber maid, a parlour maid, etc. The lord knows of other distinctions but usually it didn't matter. Similarly the lords had their titles, land grants, reputation, etc but to a maid it only mattered insofar as who gets served first.
this example is really good at showing class on a micro scale. take a great lords household. top of the social pyramid is the lord himself then maybe his wife and then the top of the servant hierarchy (butler, head cook, ect.) then maybe the lords children (age could be the dividing factor between the lords family and the rest of the household) the lord has power over everyone the wife has an extension of his power and chief servants have authority over that section of the house (ie kitchen, cleaning,outside, guardsmen,ect) children would be slightly lower than their parents which is why their isn’t a child’s class. these households were very stratified and your position within them depending on your parents position in the hierarchy (the child of a dishwasher was never going to become head cook. and people who didn’t serve the lord or a different lord couldn’t join the household easily you were either in the hierarchy or out of it.
@Daemonworks Your point reminds me of a Polish big novel "Lalka" ( literally "The Doll"). Simplifying, the protagonist is a merchant and he is in love with a noblewomen. As you can imagine, he is considered a sort-of pariah among the nobility, even though he is richer than probably a lot of them. It's much more complex than that, but the way class system in Poland in 19th century was essentially caste system is one of the big themes in the novel.
This example reminded me the best example I know: Corpse Bride. The Everglotts have all the status with a huge power that has been waning due to their impoverishment, while the Van Dorts have all the money and a small power that is growing, therefore, the former to recover their wealth and stabilize their power, and the latter to gain the status and establish their power, come to an agreement of alliance where they strictly are in to gain such, no further interests or friendship involved, through the oldest, most traditional and most effective way to do this known to them: marriage.
Like in corpse bride, the girl is from a family with status but no money, the guy is the son of rich fish merchants. Both families are marring to get what the other has, money and status
Hey, hey, hey! Slow down! I'm all in for a revolution, but we are in quarantine, it waited for hundreds of years, it can wait a few more months, don't you think?
just because the farmers in Japan on "paper" had a higher social status didn't mean that paper actually meant anything in practice. It's like american politicians saying yeah small business is the backbone of the economy, and then proceeding to give all the money to the big corporations
Nah that's fair lol. There was a distinct period, however, in which merchants were treated particularly badly because of this. But like all things like that, it was slowly eroded, which is more the point. Not just about peasant, but also merchants. ~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe I mean as the Edo period went on and the samurai got more and more in debt, there's accounts of rich farmers lending them money and then writing them letters to scold them and instruct them on areas they could cut back and save money so they can pay them back. All the while the Samurai still theoretically had life and death power over said farmer. So yeah class is a funny thing when the shogun says you have to maintain a set number of samurai on a stipend and rice prices fluctuate.
@@Newidhan I guess if that samurai killed the peasant, no one would ever lend him money again and that would be a problem. Status is influenced by many small relations like that, which decide who you need to be nice to for practical reasons.
@@HelloFutureMe in some of your videos you said the drago bewilderbeast is 2 yrs or something years old but in HTTYD 2 in the flashback he controlled dragons before even hiccup was born
One thing I'd add - where there's different ideologies between classes, there's ALWAYS ideological contestation. Even if this isn't part of your storyline (e.g. you aren't writing a revolution-based plot) it will be happening in the world, and this can and should be echoed in the plot. Whether that's a stablehand mocking a cobbler for believing 'that priestly tripe' about the Queen's alleged infidelity, or a blacksmith lobbying the regional lord for them to hire fewer apprentices, or soldiers considering mutiny because the priesthood views them as expendable cannon fodder, sprinkling in these conflicts makes the world seem more real.
14:00 "This is why the Irish Peasantry relied on the less nutritious potato." Um, excuse you? No, the Potato is LOADED with nutrients! Especially energy-rich carbohydrates. In fact, before the Potato Blight of the 1840s Irish Peasants were recorded as being taller and more fit than even some groups of the Upper class! No, the Potato was depended on so much because it was the only thing they were allowed to grow for food in enough quantities to sustain them and still have land they needed to grow cash crops that made the money they needed to pay their landlords' middlemen. Extra History's video on the Potato Blight has excellent cliff notes on how the Potato got to the position it was in. It wasn't because of wealth making it so a Potato was all they could afford.
@@seanpoore2428 yeah, a better example would have been Tudor England, where the nobles ate nothing except for meat and bread. Not a single bit of green or vegetation in sight. Meanwhile the poor ate only veggies and rarely had any meat.
I'm so glad that you wrote about class. So often fantasy stories focus on the two the two most diametrically opposed classes, the ruling and the unspeakables, and I rarely get to see what "middle class" is for a fantasy world, the class of people for which the society's rules are clear and the consequences are real, but they realistically could play the game and live a successful life. And I say that this is needed because so often writers make worlds that don't really work for anyone. Now, I'm not even saying the middle class should be a solid 40-70% of society. It could very well only be the top 19% with the Top 1% being the elitest elite. But when people write these societies where 80% of people's lives are crap, they begin to write these ruling classes that are so completely out of control with power that it starts looking like 99% of people are living crappy lives with 1% not only having power but having absolute say over everything. Writers tend to forget that someone has to be enabling the powerful for them to have power. Is it the clergy of your religion? The military? The engineers making the super weapons? The guild Masters? You aristocrats? The wizards, the ancient ones? Magic itself?!
The main issue is "fantasy" is usually some mutated form of "medieval" (or earlier). Middle classes as we understand the term didn't really exist until the renaissance. Traders such as mason, smith or miller may well have been (comparatively) wealthy and (via guilds) powerful, but they were barely in the pocket change and influence category of the upper classes who owned all the land and possessed close to a monopoly on violence by virtue of being the only ones with the wealth needed to train from birth and equip a man to the highest standards to be a knight. The growth of middle classes required the growth of cities to produce specialised finished goods. Those middle classes would either be the craft-masters controlling production or the merchants that moved those goods to the next city that didn't make the same goods and wanted to buy them. These people could then accumulate wealth and in Europe at least with wealth comes power and then status of a sort.
@@daveharrison4697 middle ages still had civil servants, nobility, clergy, guilds and gentry and I am commenting on fantasy that focuses so heavily on slaying an Emperor that it often lacks the constructs around which make an Emperor powerful. Which is what I was commenting on
@Nub93 "What game?" Whatever the game of the story is, broinsky. In The hunger games, were all 12 districts as equally likely to be unsuccessful winning for the year, or were there a bottom 3-4 that almost always loss and a top 3-4 that almost always won? In Star Wars, Is every planet like the planets in the outer uncharted space (regardless of Republic or Empire in charge)? In Avatar The Last Airbender, are the people in the middle rings of Ba Sing Se safe from the ---- There is no war in Be Sing Se. @__@ In Harry Potter, are pure bloods irregardless of wealth at a magical advantage over muggleborns who have to learn everything from scratch at Hogwarts and in Wizarding Society? In the Game of thrones, does writing a horse not make you better than a man who must walk amongst the dothraki, even if you're not the leader? Is it really that difficult to think about a fantasy society and imagine all the people who get some, if not most, of the fantasy's benefits without having to actively rule the world, making them the complacent and complicit middle class that enable the leader the hero is trying to overthrow? Hell... The Hyenas are the middle class of Scar's pride, getting food in exchange for protecting him from the lionesses, without having to do any of the hunting. Seriously, this is so easy. I could do it all day.
I completely agree. The middle class can be an extremely interesting part of society to focus on because people rarely write about them. I think people like to write the black and white oppressors vs. the oppressed narrative but the middle class have a huge role in this themselves because they too can be the oppressors (in our world the middle class outwardly despise the lower class while pretending to care about them) and the oppressed (they have been silenced and crushed by the upper class when they try to challenge their power). You have stories like GOT where it seems everyone just lives a crappy life unless you're nobility and that's so far from the truth of the medieval period but it's also incredibly bleak. You had poor peasants but you also had the well-off peasants, you had the merchant class, artists and craftsmen who would later go on to create the middle class, and they all lived relatively good lives.
I’ve always struggled at fantasy world building in some forms that don’t have a basis on our world - videos like these are helping me understand how I can create these systems for my own world, great video!
Class is becoming a big deal in a current isekai anime called honzuki no gekokujou. The main character is being forced to relearn how to speak properly so as not to show weakness and even how to play a harp to protect her as she is commoner now mingling in noble class areas.
I think it's also important to think about personal power in a fantasy setting, no matter the class, wealth or lineage no one in our world can ever learn or be born powerful enough to beat off 1000 or 10000 other dudes, some times in fantasy that kind of power disparity exists and it seems to only affect interpersonal relationship instead of warping entire societies around these individuals.
@@Nostripe361 Are talking about Bookworm? You're talking about Ascendance of a Bookworm, right!? I love that show. The world building and everything is absolutely amazing.
@@jeromefournier9667 In a world with people that powerful, I'll never understand the existence of armies or king's who aren't the most powerful around (or in charge of a small group of incredibly powerful warriors). I don't agree with "might makes right," but when I could throw a grenade point blank at someone and they could run around the country twice before the explosion reaches back towards my hand then I don't think someone strong would have much problem in taking over, setting up a local militia to run the villages before taking over the neighbouring kingdom by just running past their army and killing the king, thereby intimidating the opposing kingdom enough to add it to your collection. Seriously, what can an army of average strength people do against the 10 strongest people from Akame Ga Kill? Absolutely squat. One of them outran an explosion while holding an injured comrade in their arms, the speed of that is measured not in miles per hour but in metres per second. That's stupid fast.
Talking about clothing: An important factor that makes clothes fancy (and thus fit for the upper class) is how impractical it can be. Think of Renaissance ball gowns or the Roman toga. Those even prohibited the wearer from walking quickly, let alone do physical labor. It means you can afford an item of clothing that is both costly and impractical, so you kind of throw money away.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Hi I was thinking in terms of Asian lords(chinese) mandarin class type, growing long nails as sign of status i.e I am so high socially that others do everything for me. hope that helps
@@simonkelly1958 No no, I understand you. Im just giving an example of how powerless that makes one. In no socity showing ones self as weak and a burden to other is a good thing.
I love Dragon Age for how it treats magic. Mages are low on status, and are typically taken from their families for their safety. They are a danger, but in the third game, they rebel. Templars, the ones that train to keep the mages away from the public, are seen as protectors or tyrants. And the highest level a mage has ever known to touch in the common people’s government is essentially a court jester, until Madame Vivienne, who you can meet. The highest templar you see replaced a ruler of a city-state, that being Knight-Commander Meredith. Also, elves are the oppressed people in Dragon Age, either forced to live as slaves, in servitude, in aleinages (basically a ghetto), or are nomadic people that frequently fight with human cities. They had a grand empire and were defeated during an Exalted March, which is a religious crusade and their empire was destroyed. And the dwarves have a full-on caste system, complete with an underbelly of untouchables both in the city and outside. If a dwarf sees the sky, they can no longer live in the underground kingdom.
Dragon age had some really good worldbuilding in it. It's one of the reasons I still love that game (please for the love of the Maker, Bioware, do not f**k up the next Dragon Age, and please don't let EA make you put in micro-transactions, some cosmetics are fine, I won't like it, but some of that, is far better than a ton of various ones, though again I prefer none at all, sorry, kinda saw red for a second there).
Dark Rite You’re so completely right, but after the failure of Anthem and Andromeda, paired with the success of Jedi Fallen Order and the most anticipated game being Cyberpunk 2077, EA may realize they need to leave Bioware alone. It’s a crackpipe dream, but here’s hoping...
@Berserking Bishop Agreed on Dragon Age 2, cause I really wasn't a fan of what they did art style wise among other things. Inquisition wasn't bad, it was fun, the story was decent, and I like a lot of the things you could do in it. But I will note that it certainly didn't have the same impact of Origins, and while it's almost as replayable as Origins, I think Origins was truly the best of them story wise. Though that's just me, I can certainly understand dislike of it in comparison to the first game.
The important thing on the magic in DA is actually just how absurdly powerful it is. They physically walked into the Fade and you do that too because of magic. The Tevinter Imperium values magic ability and bloodline above all else and the Archon and Black Divine are both extremely powerful mages from what I remember, while most of the rest of the world sees mages as the cause of Darkspawn since the first Blight happened during the hegemony of the Tevinter Imperium and was a disastrous conflict of over two centuries. Even the second blight was absurdly long and devastating, I think coming in somewhere around 80 years? All that colored the modern thinking of the Chantry which led to so much influence in normal people. The mages rising up is even more so important not just because of oppression but because they find out that the main threat to them (being made Tranquil) is actually reversible. (It's in one of the novels. Forget the title right now. Great read.) The elves, even more importantly as we find out, valued the same thing until an internal revolution toppled their actual empire (you find this out in Tresspasser DLC in Inquisition - really highly recommend it) and all subsuquent attempts were quelled because without their omni-present magic elves in general are weaker than humans or Qunari. The novel "The Calling" reveals that the an elf and human hybrid is always human which also adds more to the fact that elves are doomed without their magic. The dwarves need so much more stuff. With the other major Thaig (Kal Shirok? I forget the spelling or name) now confirmed to be discovered and successful against Darkspawn and completely independent of Orazammar, plus the changes we already saw brewing in DA:O, it will be interesting to see how things might change for the casteless and if Orzammar will accept them more permanently.
I don't like Dragon Age for how it treats its elves because, to me, it seems like a blatant rip off from The Witcher series without understanding how it worked in The Witcher. For elves to be oppressed for their looks doesn't work in DA when you have black and brown people walking around without any care in the world. It works in the Witcher because, even though the elves and the Witchers look like anyone else from afar, when they get close enough for people to see their abnormal features it becomes something that is picked apart for how different it is. Because their ears (or the eyes for Witchers) are the only thing that differentiate them from the rest of the people in the Witcher world it is used as a form of petty prejudice and that is a clever way to create oppression that makes sense. In DA it doesn't make any sense.
"Huh. No idea why I'm pausing here. No idea how this could possibly be relevant to our current geopolitical and sociological circumstances." I laughed and cried both.
@@rileyackison4495 because the point he made was obviously contradictory to how our current society works (power is valued over relevance or importance to societal function)
@@MerkhVision It didn’t raise their status. They’ve always been necessary to the function of society, but we didn’t actually treat them any differently because of this pandemic. We just pretended to and then moved on
"...why the Irish peasants relied on the less nutritious potato..." Except that the potato was the single most nutritious crop available, relative to land usage. The entire reason Ireland grew to be so heavily reliant on the potato is because the potato was the only crop nutritious enough to feed both the populace of Ireland and meet the English demands for food exports. There are even studies pondering the health and stature of the Irish peasant vs the French peasant. The conclusion at the time, because genetics were new and eugenic explanations for things were generally accepted, was that there was a genetic superiority to the Irish peasant, but the modern interpretation of the data is that it's entirely due to the difference in diet - potato vs grains like barley. The reason the Irish Potato Famine was so devastating was that the English demand for food exports from the subjugated Irish necessitated a near total monoculture of potato. It's less being poor and more being subjects of foreign and malicious rule.
Yes, exactly, economics not intent. People act like the upper classes were keeping the best food, in reality the potato was a better choice than the overly meat heavy diet of those with greater wealth.
One addition I recently heard: Another big issue leading to the Irish Potato Famine was that a very poor selection of potatoes was brought over to Europe from South America, meaning the population of potatoes being produced in Europe had very low genetic diversity. This resulted in making the potato much more uniformly vulnerable to disease, so when a disease that killed one plant came along, every other plant was just as vulnerable to it. This isn't the last time that kind of thing happened, either. If you've ever had artificial banana flavouring and noticed how not-banana it tastes like, that's because it was designed for a different type of banana, which were all pretty close to being clones of one another. Disease came along and wiped out the whole world's crop of banana trees. So we found a new banana tree variety, and have done the exact same thing with the current kind of banana. At some point, it's all but inevitable that the exact same thing will happen again because "learning from history, what is that?" So enjoy bananas while we have them, we don't know when the entire species we're using is just going to drop off the face of the earth.
The great Myshkerian revolution is coming. Arise Comrades and fight in the name of our late Supreme Leader Mishka. I believe I may have spelled the name wrong. I will now go commit sepuku while you all take on the revolution without me
I never realized just how underdeveloped my world building was when it comes to classes. It had suddenly become something I wanted to work on more but I had been solely focused on rankings among military, not over all status of the people and where they fit in in the world.
Hey, think of it this way. Depending on your military system, those military ranks may equate to their social standing. Take Knights or Samurai- they were a proffession as much as they were a social status.
Been working on my worldbuilding since 2018 and when I saw this channel, IT HELPED ME A LOT. Now I'm more into national history of nations in my own fictional world and dang, there are at least fifty of them more or less and 11,000 years to fill! (in its timeline which was truly insane on its own LOL) Challenging but fun and also satisfying. THANK YOU! ❤
and hold up your weapons, tools and fists-united! For me shall strike down our oppressors. Rise up, my brethren! Do not fear for your lives- you only have your chains to lose
One of my favorite class mix ups lately came from Fire Emblem Three Houses, each of the units have different reactions to which route you go down, and while you’d assume most of the nobles would want to keep a noble society they are all more than happy to overthrow the status quo in Edlegard’s route
That one is particularly interesting because while the means of enforcement for the existing hierarchy haven't entirely decayed, the bloodline-exclusive magic it rests on is thinning out and so the upper class is also feeling the pressure, with some noble characters becoming disillusioned (e.g. Sylvain and Hanneman's backstories). The religion is also a factor, since the class system relies on it to justify itself while going against its stated moral values. Basically, the power hasn't actually shifted yet, but almost nobody is satisfied with the existing system anymore, and in all endings it changes in some ways.
Михаил Дворецкий I’m in the middle Rhea’s route but so far only Dimitri keeps a monarchy while Claude and Edelgard both do a representative republic / oligarchy based on merit, but even in Dimitris route they talk about the need to uplift citizens without crests which strays away from fantasy’s bad habit of magic blood = rightful ruler that FE is super guilty about
I saw Nier:Automata on the thumbnail and really wanted to hear something about it. But then it was just used for one tiny example. *sad android noises*
I'm actually a bit triggered by it. I mean he say's "android society" but then quotes YoRHa type designations, which literally only apply to the YoRHa units and even then aren't accurate, since only Scanner and Operator are actual types in the lore. The "fighter" is a grouping of A, B, D, and G types, "Commander" isn't a type but is a specific character, and the H (Healer) type is left unmentioned..
I remember one episode of Victoria where they visit Scotland. The nobles are having their gallant ball, while the servants and other low borns had a dance outside the castle. The servant's dance was less formal and the music and dancing were much more lively. Reminded me of river music in America during the same era.
so many layers to consider especially when you have multiple characters all from different backgrounds and even different fantasy species. man this is gonna be tough lol
8:50 "In The Witcher, magic makes you less socially mobile... So consider Witch Things in your world..." (sorry couldn't let that one slide.) Also, the mini sketches in between the info were hilarious! Very insightful information as always! Currently revisiting your book to design my magic system. ^^ I was wondering if you could make a video in the future On Writing Humor? Definitely allows for many Avatar examples!
On the topic of class systems makes me think of the Red Rising saga by Pierce Brown. Going against the class system in that series results in a multi planetary war. Definitely worth a read in my opinion.
This is why Tim's videos are so valuable. I did forget to think about how class would affect my character's philosophies. Thanks Tim, now my war mongering warrior believe's he's entitled to world domination because of his class system's influence and not just cuz he's a narcissist a-hole hooray!
Is that a freaking reference to *Starcraft,* one of the most underdeveloped sifi universe with an unmeasured amount of potential we will never see? :D I already subbed earlier in the vid, but I would do it again just for recognizing starcraft's lore.
Thank you for including some Man of Steel in this video! It's one of my favorite movies (and my favorite superhero film), so it's cool to see others continue to bring up the philosophical aspects it introduced.
I don’t know how I only just now discovered your videos but they are absolutely amazing and it’s obvious how much care and effort you put into your work idk if these comments mean much to you but I really appreciate your work
About the Stormlight Archive: there's more mobility than you implied. Nested within the broad categories of eye color lies a finer resolution class system of "dahns". And there's actually some practical overlap where a high dahn darkeyes has a better life than a low dahn light eyes. Also, so timely! I'm plotting -the glorious revolution- a story about class conflict now.
And this aspect that some people of lower status can have in practice better life standard than some of higher status is a thing that happened in real life - for example in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there was a lot of nobility (about 10% of society) and many of this nobility was very poor and were living in practice just as peasants.
Well, when you're writing you can just make the characters never think about the funnily details, but your players will definitely want to know wether they can give a nobleman more money to lower their status and increase the players own power.
The Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett is a very good example of class based world building. The Krasians in particular are a fantastically written caste based society.
Let's go my comrades. Let's destroy class based hierarchical structures in our own fantasies , because we sure as hell don't have a chance doing so in this dystopia ;D
The Mimbari race in Babylon 5 has an interesting horizontal caste system, and it's and the interaction between high profile members if the different castes are relevant through out all 5 seasons
On Nier Automata : YoRHa androids can ask to be reasigned as another model. 9S's operator does this to be able to fight on earth. But there's also a sex requirement, male YoRHa units can only be Scanners due to an historical precedent. That is for the YoRHa androids, the resistance seems organized differently.
I'm currently playing with a dystopian world with a super polarized class system! I'm doing some stuff where while the upper and lower class share the same main religion. That religion actually reinforces the class system, and prevents the lower class from rising up. I'm so excited about my thing it's crazy
Have you ever considered doing your longer videos as a podcast? I would really like it because I love listening to your videos but don’t always have time to watch the videos.
Great video! After watching your videos, you always present questions that I would never conjure up with my world building for my novel. Your logic and discerning of different subjects cause me to go deeper. I truly enjoy your videos wish you had more!
"Having an upper class in an Earth-like society with all the wealth but none of the power and none of the status is probably unrealistic." *Laughs in Edo Period Merchant Class*
Do you think you will ever do an "On Writing" video about brotherhood and friendship? I've always been fascinated by these types of relationships in both books and movies, especially when even though 2 characters are friends, they see eachother as brothers/sisters.
Using this video to help me develop my dnd society, farmers are basically an aristocratic class bc post-apocalypse people are desperate for food and i want to know how to make that believable
Mages have a really high status in the world of The Witcher. Witchers can't do all that much magic, what really brings them down in the greater scheme of things is their status as mutants, nonhumans. Ciris journey is an interesting one as she basically successivly goes through most available classes, starting out as a princess, then peasant, then witcher (-apprentice), then mage, then outlaw... (I haven't read the books much further yet ;- )
GLORIOUS! But seriously though, I'm barely 5 minutes in and already this has inspired some serious worldbuilding questions and solutions that my world sorely needed. I can just feel the world shifting into place as I ask the proper questions and answer them in greater detail. It's been nothing short of a...revolutionising experience. If you see this: Thanks Tim! And if you don't see it: Thanks Tim!
Norse farmers during the Viking Age also had a lot of prestige, both because of the scarcity of good soil, but also because they had a lot of dominion over their own field. When we got into the Renaissance era, that’s also a good example when dynamic changes. They’re still at the bottom of the picking order, but because so many died to the plague, landowners desperately needed people to harvest their fields, which in return gave farmers a lot better quality of life changes and wealth compared to what they had before.
One interesting example is how spices used to be a luxury good, then suddenly when they became commonplace, the aristocrats shifted to broths that were labor intensive to prepare, requiring kitchen servants
talking about potatoes in Ireland, a lot of it was down to how the British landowning system worked. Where land was equally divided between each of the sons in a family, which led to larger plots becoming smaller and smaller with each generation. This led to the reliance on the potato, since you didnt need large yields to live of when compared to something like wheat or maize. An example of how power was used to suppress Irish landowners and propagate the British ruling class.
Have you considered doing a video opposite of the redemption arc? Taking a hero and breaking them down until they're the villain? I'd love to see something like that.
Fun fact on class in the UK. Quite a few lords went bankrupt in the 80's so they have status but no power or wealth. Others managed to keep their wealth, but lords living in small suburban homes is surprising common.
The thing with the Irish and the potato is that most of the good land was used by the English to farm crops for export to England. Potatoes are very nutritional and were grown wherever possable by the peasants to feed themselves.
This comment is mostly cause it would show as the 900th on my phone... I could say thank you, that I’m grateful for these amazing and helpful this video is, but I say that under every video. We all know how incredibly awesome this channel is. But yeah, again, thank you dearly 😌
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![On Worldbuilding: Monarchy [ French Revolution | British Empire | Chinese Dynasties ]](/img/tr.png)
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In a few weeks, THE GLORIOUS REVOLUTION - I mean, Part 2, will be here. *AND NOW IT'S HERE >>> ruclips.net/video/8tjvul5e1y4/видео.html
I eagerly await THE GLORIOUS REVOLUTION. Also your next video.
Hey,soooooo,there isnt any more HTTYD now?
COMMUNISM
Is all of this info in your book as well
Oh, the greatness of that! Thank you for your wonderfull videos!
I'm reminded of how, in Victorian England, you had an increase in incredibly wealthy merchant/industrialist families and poor noble families intermarrying to consolidate wealth power and status.
Also, note that every class/caste is recursive: there are classes within those classes, and the difference may or may not be recognized outside.
To an english lord, you had the head maid and the rest of the maids. To the maids it mattered greatly whether they were a chamber maid, a parlour maid, etc. The lord knows of other distinctions but usually it didn't matter. Similarly the lords had their titles, land grants, reputation, etc but to a maid it only mattered insofar as who gets served first.
yes, good additional points
this example is really good at showing class on a micro scale. take a great lords household. top of the social pyramid is the lord himself then maybe his wife and then the top of the servant hierarchy (butler, head cook, ect.) then maybe the lords children (age could be the dividing factor between the lords family and the rest of the household) the lord has power over everyone the wife has an extension of his power and chief servants have authority over that section of the house (ie kitchen, cleaning,outside, guardsmen,ect) children would be slightly lower than their parents which is why their isn’t a child’s class. these households were very stratified and your position within them depending on your parents position in the hierarchy (the child of a dishwasher was never going to become head cook. and people who didn’t serve the lord or a different lord couldn’t join the household easily you were either in the hierarchy or out of it.
@Daemonworks
Your point reminds me of a Polish big novel "Lalka" ( literally "The Doll"). Simplifying, the protagonist is a merchant and he is in love with a noblewomen. As you can imagine, he is considered a sort-of pariah among the nobility, even though he is richer than probably a lot of them. It's much more complex than that, but the way class system in Poland in 19th century was essentially caste system is one of the big themes in the novel.
This example reminded me the best example I know: Corpse Bride. The Everglotts have all the status with a huge power that has been waning due to their impoverishment, while the Van Dorts have all the money and a small power that is growing, therefore, the former to recover their wealth and stabilize their power, and the latter to gain the status and establish their power, come to an agreement of alliance where they strictly are in to gain such, no further interests or friendship involved, through the oldest, most traditional and most effective way to do this known to them: marriage.
Like in corpse bride, the girl is from a family with status but no money, the guy is the son of rich fish merchants. Both families are marring to get what the other has, money and status
Y'all heard it here, revolution in a month
It's BYO. Bring your own torch.
~ Tim
Hey, hey, hey! Slow down! I'm all in for a revolution, but we are in quarantine, it waited for hundreds of years, it can wait a few more months, don't you think?
@@HelloFutureMe this but unironically
So that's what we're getting for June for 2020
Eat the hairdressers
Speakers on, window open. You know... since it's a beautiful day ou-- "RISE UP, COMRADES!!!"
Best part is, you could've sworn that when you glanced outside afterwards, you might have glimpsed some people saluting.
Reminds me of the Chinese National anthem. The chorus literally translates to rise up: 起来，起来，起来！
This comment aged like fine wine
1312
Same 😂😂
just because the farmers in Japan on "paper" had a higher social status didn't mean that paper actually meant anything in practice. It's like american politicians saying yeah small business is the backbone of the economy, and then proceeding to give all the money to the big corporations
Exactly. China's peasants were theoretically higher-status than merchants, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince any actual peasants of that
Nah that's fair lol. There was a distinct period, however, in which merchants were treated particularly badly because of this. But like all things like that, it was slowly eroded, which is more the point. Not just about peasant, but also merchants.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe I mean as the Edo period went on and the samurai got more and more in debt, there's accounts of rich farmers lending them money and then writing them letters to scold them and instruct them on areas they could cut back and save money so they can pay them back. All the while the Samurai still theoretically had life and death power over said farmer. So yeah class is a funny thing when the shogun says you have to maintain a set number of samurai on a stipend and rice prices fluctuate.
@@Newidhan I guess if that samurai killed the peasant, no one would ever lend him money again and that would be a problem. Status is influenced by many small relations like that, which decide who you need to be nice to for practical reasons.
@@HelloFutureMe in some of your videos you said the drago bewilderbeast
is 2 yrs or something years old but in HTTYD 2 in the flashback he controlled dragons before even hiccup was born
One thing I'd add - where there's different ideologies between classes, there's ALWAYS ideological contestation. Even if this isn't part of your storyline (e.g. you aren't writing a revolution-based plot) it will be happening in the world, and this can and should be echoed in the plot.
Whether that's a stablehand mocking a cobbler for believing 'that priestly tripe' about the Queen's alleged infidelity, or a blacksmith lobbying the regional lord for them to hire fewer apprentices, or soldiers considering mutiny because the priesthood views them as expendable cannon fodder, sprinkling in these conflicts makes the world seem more real.
14:00 "This is why the Irish Peasantry relied on the less nutritious potato."
Um, excuse you? No, the Potato is LOADED with nutrients! Especially energy-rich carbohydrates. In fact, before the Potato Blight of the 1840s Irish Peasants were recorded as being taller and more fit than even some groups of the Upper class! No, the Potato was depended on so much because it was the only thing they were allowed to grow for food in enough quantities to sustain them and still have land they needed to grow cash crops that made the money they needed to pay their landlords' middlemen.
Extra History's video on the Potato Blight has excellent cliff notes on how the Potato got to the position it was in. It wasn't because of wealth making it so a Potato was all they could afford.
Bruh
lol
I'm glad I didn't post this comment because here it is lmao said perfectly AND referencing the great Extra Credits potato famine video!
@@seanpoore2428 yeah, a better example would have been Tudor England, where the nobles ate nothing except for meat and bread. Not a single bit of green or vegetation in sight. Meanwhile the poor ate only veggies and rarely had any meat.
I think the point is more potatoes were grown because they were one of the few things hardy enough to survive
"The American dream.... You can die it a nicer coffin than a poor person "
I died laughing 😂😂😂
Unless they set it ablaze.
Urns, baby. That's where it's at.
It was so unexpected I actually laughed out loud.
Pfft, small brained fools! Dropping dead is where it's at!
As an American, I can confirm that that's basically it.
last time I was this early we thought the fire nation was just industrializing for economic reasons
Well to begin with it was .
Lol
I'm so glad that you wrote about class. So often fantasy stories focus on the two the two most diametrically opposed classes, the ruling and the unspeakables, and I rarely get to see what "middle class" is for a fantasy world, the class of people for which the society's rules are clear and the consequences are real, but they realistically could play the game and live a successful life. And I say that this is needed because so often writers make worlds that don't really work for anyone. Now, I'm not even saying the middle class should be a solid 40-70% of society. It could very well only be the top 19% with the Top 1% being the elitest elite. But when people write these societies where 80% of people's lives are crap, they begin to write these ruling classes that are so completely out of control with power that it starts looking like 99% of people are living crappy lives with 1% not only having power but having absolute say over everything. Writers tend to forget that someone has to be enabling the powerful for them to have power. Is it the clergy of your religion? The military? The engineers making the super weapons? The guild Masters? You aristocrats? The wizards, the ancient ones? Magic itself?!
The main issue is "fantasy" is usually some mutated form of "medieval" (or earlier). Middle classes as we understand the term didn't really exist until the renaissance. Traders such as mason, smith or miller may well have been (comparatively) wealthy and (via guilds) powerful, but they were barely in the pocket change and influence category of the upper classes who owned all the land and possessed close to a monopoly on violence by virtue of being the only ones with the wealth needed to train from birth and equip a man to the highest standards to be a knight. The growth of middle classes required the growth of cities to produce specialised finished goods. Those middle classes would either be the craft-masters controlling production or the merchants that moved those goods to the next city that didn't make the same goods and wanted to buy them. These people could then accumulate wealth and in Europe at least with wealth comes power and then status of a sort.
Dave Harrison the middle class only really formed in Europe at least in the late Middle Ages
@@daveharrison4697 middle ages still had civil servants, nobility, clergy, guilds and gentry and I am commenting on fantasy that focuses so heavily on slaying an Emperor that it often lacks the constructs around which make an Emperor powerful. Which is what I was commenting on
@Nub93 "What game?" Whatever the game of the story is, broinsky.
In The hunger games, were all 12 districts as equally likely to be unsuccessful winning for the year, or were there a bottom 3-4 that almost always loss and a top 3-4 that almost always won?
In Star Wars, Is every planet like the planets in the outer uncharted space (regardless of Republic or Empire in charge)?
In Avatar The Last Airbender, are the people in the middle rings of Ba Sing Se safe from the ---- There is no war in Be Sing Se. @__@
In Harry Potter, are pure bloods irregardless of wealth at a magical advantage over muggleborns who have to learn everything from scratch at Hogwarts and in Wizarding Society?
In the Game of thrones, does writing a horse not make you better than a man who must walk amongst the dothraki, even if you're not the leader?
Is it really that difficult to think about a fantasy society and imagine all the people who get some, if not most, of the fantasy's benefits without having to actively rule the world, making them the complacent and complicit middle class that enable the leader the hero is trying to overthrow?
Hell... The Hyenas are the middle class of Scar's pride, getting food in exchange for protecting him from the lionesses, without having to do any of the hunting. Seriously, this is so easy. I could do it all day.
I completely agree. The middle class can be an extremely interesting part of society to focus on because people rarely write about them. I think people like to write the black and white oppressors vs. the oppressed narrative but the middle class have a huge role in this themselves because they too can be the oppressors (in our world the middle class outwardly despise the lower class while pretending to care about them) and the oppressed (they have been silenced and crushed by the upper class when they try to challenge their power). You have stories like GOT where it seems everyone just lives a crappy life unless you're nobility and that's so far from the truth of the medieval period but it's also incredibly bleak. You had poor peasants but you also had the well-off peasants, you had the merchant class, artists and craftsmen who would later go on to create the middle class, and they all lived relatively good lives.
I’ve always struggled at fantasy world building in some forms that don’t have a basis on our world - videos like these are helping me understand how I can create these systems for my own world, great video!
Class is becoming a big deal in a current isekai anime called honzuki no gekokujou. The main character is being forced to relearn how to speak properly so as not to show weakness and even how to play a harp to protect her as she is commoner now mingling in noble class areas.
I think it's also important to think about personal power in a fantasy setting, no matter the class, wealth or lineage no one in our world can ever learn or be born powerful enough to beat off 1000 or 10000 other dudes, some times in fantasy that kind of power disparity exists and it seems to only affect interpersonal relationship instead of warping entire societies around these individuals.
@@Nostripe361 Are talking about Bookworm? You're talking about Ascendance of a Bookworm, right!?
I love that show. The world building and everything is absolutely amazing.
@@jeromefournier9667 In a world with people that powerful, I'll never understand the existence of armies or king's who aren't the most powerful around (or in charge of a small group of incredibly powerful warriors). I don't agree with "might makes right," but when I could throw a grenade point blank at someone and they could run around the country twice before the explosion reaches back towards my hand then I don't think someone strong would have much problem in taking over, setting up a local militia to run the villages before taking over the neighbouring kingdom by just running past their army and killing the king, thereby intimidating the opposing kingdom enough to add it to your collection.
Seriously, what can an army of average strength people do against the 10 strongest people from Akame Ga Kill? Absolutely squat. One of them outran an explosion while holding an injured comrade in their arms, the speed of that is measured not in miles per hour but in metres per second. That's stupid fast.
Try watching his video Soft world building vs Hard world building, I promise you will not regret it
Hang on, did Tim write a video about a complicated topic without saying "Class systems are complicated!" In his booming voiceover? :O
Eh, I'm sure it's coming in the next part.
Talking about clothing: An important factor that makes clothes fancy (and thus fit for the upper class) is how impractical it can be. Think of Renaissance ball gowns or the Roman toga. Those even prohibited the wearer from walking quickly, let alone do physical labor. It means you can afford an item of clothing that is both costly and impractical, so you kind of throw money away.
Those impractical cloathes will apear later when the class is longs past is glory days and is now degenerating.
Similar to growing finger nails so long they are not practical for labour or even bodily functions
@@simonkelly1958 Jup degenerecy. If you are lets say the warior class how are you gona fight with those kind of nails.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Hi I was thinking in terms of Asian lords(chinese) mandarin class type, growing long nails as sign of status i.e I am so high socially that others do everything for me. hope that helps
@@simonkelly1958 No no, I understand you. Im just giving an example of how powerless that makes one. In no socity showing ones self as weak and a burden to other is a good thing.
I love Dragon Age for how it treats magic. Mages are low on status, and are typically taken from their families for their safety. They are a danger, but in the third game, they rebel. Templars, the ones that train to keep the mages away from the public, are seen as protectors or tyrants. And the highest level a mage has ever known to touch in the common people’s government is essentially a court jester, until Madame Vivienne, who you can meet. The highest templar you see replaced a ruler of a city-state, that being Knight-Commander Meredith. Also, elves are the oppressed people in Dragon Age, either forced to live as slaves, in servitude, in aleinages (basically a ghetto), or are nomadic people that frequently fight with human cities. They had a grand empire and were defeated during an Exalted March, which is a religious crusade and their empire was destroyed. And the dwarves have a full-on caste system, complete with an underbelly of untouchables both in the city and outside. If a dwarf sees the sky, they can no longer live in the underground kingdom.
Dragon age had some really good worldbuilding in it. It's one of the reasons I still love that game (please for the love of the Maker, Bioware, do not f**k up the next Dragon Age, and please don't let EA make you put in micro-transactions, some cosmetics are fine, I won't like it, but some of that, is far better than a ton of various ones, though again I prefer none at all, sorry, kinda saw red for a second there).
Dark Rite You’re so completely right, but after the failure of Anthem and Andromeda, paired with the success of Jedi Fallen Order and the most anticipated game being Cyberpunk 2077, EA may realize they need to leave Bioware alone. It’s a crackpipe dream, but here’s hoping...
@Berserking Bishop Agreed on Dragon Age 2, cause I really wasn't a fan of what they did art style wise among other things. Inquisition wasn't bad, it was fun, the story was decent, and I like a lot of the things you could do in it. But I will note that it certainly didn't have the same impact of Origins, and while it's almost as replayable as Origins, I think Origins was truly the best of them story wise. Though that's just me, I can certainly understand dislike of it in comparison to the first game.
The important thing on the magic in DA is actually just how absurdly powerful it is. They physically walked into the Fade and you do that too because of magic. The Tevinter Imperium values magic ability and bloodline above all else and the Archon and Black Divine are both extremely powerful mages from what I remember, while most of the rest of the world sees mages as the cause of Darkspawn since the first Blight happened during the hegemony of the Tevinter Imperium and was a disastrous conflict of over two centuries. Even the second blight was absurdly long and devastating, I think coming in somewhere around 80 years? All that colored the modern thinking of the Chantry which led to so much influence in normal people. The mages rising up is even more so important not just because of oppression but because they find out that the main threat to them (being made Tranquil) is actually reversible. (It's in one of the novels. Forget the title right now. Great read.)
The elves, even more importantly as we find out, valued the same thing until an internal revolution toppled their actual empire (you find this out in Tresspasser DLC in Inquisition - really highly recommend it) and all subsuquent attempts were quelled because without their omni-present magic elves in general are weaker than humans or Qunari. The novel "The Calling" reveals that the an elf and human hybrid is always human which also adds more to the fact that elves are doomed without their magic.
The dwarves need so much more stuff. With the other major Thaig (Kal Shirok? I forget the spelling or name) now confirmed to be discovered and successful against Darkspawn and completely independent of Orazammar, plus the changes we already saw brewing in DA:O, it will be interesting to see how things might change for the casteless and if Orzammar will accept them more permanently.
I don't like Dragon Age for how it treats its elves because, to me, it seems like a blatant rip off from The Witcher series without understanding how it worked in The Witcher. For elves to be oppressed for their looks doesn't work in DA when you have black and brown people walking around without any care in the world. It works in the Witcher because, even though the elves and the Witchers look like anyone else from afar, when they get close enough for people to see their abnormal features it becomes something that is picked apart for how different it is. Because their ears (or the eyes for Witchers) are the only thing that differentiate them from the rest of the people in the Witcher world it is used as a form of petty prejudice and that is a clever way to create oppression that makes sense. In DA it doesn't make any sense.
"Huh. No idea why I'm pausing here. No idea how this could possibly be relevant to our current geopolitical and sociological circumstances."
I laughed and cried both.
I laughed but honestly not 100% sure what he is referring to. Could someone possibly explain it?
@@rileyackison4495 because the point he made was obviously contradictory to how our current society works (power is valued over relevance or importance to societal function)
@@iheartblock3792 it's not even that, it's more likely he's referencing the global pandemic raising the status of essential workers!
@@MerkhVision It didn’t raise their status. They’ve always been necessary to the function of society, but we didn’t actually treat them any differently because of this pandemic. We just pretended to and then moved on
@@iheartblock3792 thanks
10:26 “Like we should have for people who prefer dogs to cats”
I feel attacked here.
What if you like both equally?
@@Orange_Swirl mmm, we'll have to create another class for that. Maybe you can be a merchant lol.
@@TheShitArtist Ohh, So I may end up a merchant for liking both. Oooo. Intense.
Good
@@TheShitArtist You make it sound like being a merchant is bad. You know rich you can potentially end up being?
"The Revolution will be coming in a month or so" I wonder how prescient this joke will end up being.
Hopefully very 😃
You have no idea
The Revolution will not be televised...it will be posted on RUclips
One month have past, as expected, no revolution
@@carso1500 When the glorious revolution comes, would you prefer the guillotine or the gulag? the Jacobins are going to need to know your preference.
"...why the Irish peasants relied on the less nutritious potato..."
Except that the potato was the single most nutritious crop available, relative to land usage. The entire reason Ireland grew to be so heavily reliant on the potato is because the potato was the only crop nutritious enough to feed both the populace of Ireland and meet the English demands for food exports. There are even studies pondering the health and stature of the Irish peasant vs the French peasant. The conclusion at the time, because genetics were new and eugenic explanations for things were generally accepted, was that there was a genetic superiority to the Irish peasant, but the modern interpretation of the data is that it's entirely due to the difference in diet - potato vs grains like barley.
The reason the Irish Potato Famine was so devastating was that the English demand for food exports from the subjugated Irish necessitated a near total monoculture of potato. It's less being poor and more being subjects of foreign and malicious rule.
That's really cool.
Yes, exactly, economics not intent. People act like the upper classes were keeping the best food, in reality the potato was a better choice than the overly meat heavy diet of those with greater wealth.
Yes this is why potatoes are great!
One addition I recently heard: Another big issue leading to the Irish Potato Famine was that a very poor selection of potatoes was brought over to Europe from South America, meaning the population of potatoes being produced in Europe had very low genetic diversity. This resulted in making the potato much more uniformly vulnerable to disease, so when a disease that killed one plant came along, every other plant was just as vulnerable to it.
This isn't the last time that kind of thing happened, either. If you've ever had artificial banana flavouring and noticed how not-banana it tastes like, that's because it was designed for a different type of banana, which were all pretty close to being clones of one another. Disease came along and wiped out the whole world's crop of banana trees. So we found a new banana tree variety, and have done the exact same thing with the current kind of banana. At some point, it's all but inevitable that the exact same thing will happen again because "learning from history, what is that?" So enjoy bananas while we have them, we don't know when the entire species we're using is just going to drop off the face of the earth.
The great Myshkerian revolution is coming. Arise Comrades and fight in the name of our late Supreme Leader Mishka.
I believe I may have spelled the name wrong. I will now go commit sepuku while you all take on the revolution without me
Wth you're not the top comment? This is mind-blowing!!
da comrade ! TIME FOR GLORY !
For Glory of the Eternal Revolution!
I see you everywhere.
I also see you everywhere
So, what you're saying is...
"Class systems are complicated..."
Yeah,you can put it like that
But you wouldn't be able to work with it if it's so condensed
Deus Vult infidel?
I never realized just how underdeveloped my world building was when it comes to classes. It had suddenly become something I wanted to work on more but I had been solely focused on rankings among military, not over all status of the people and where they fit in in the world.
Hey, think of it this way. Depending on your military system, those military ranks may equate to their social standing. Take Knights or Samurai- they were a proffession as much as they were a social status.
Looking forward to the next half.
I concur. We need The Soviet Union part 2 to wrap up where the prior had left off
Been working on my worldbuilding since 2018 and when I saw this channel, IT HELPED ME A LOT. Now I'm more into national history of nations in my own fictional world and dang, there are at least fifty of them more or less and 11,000 years to fill! (in its timeline which was truly insane on its own LOL) Challenging but fun and also satisfying. THANK YOU! ❤
are you still there?
if yes...is the worldbuilding complete?
@@kaiseralok07 it is! Though I had a long hiatus now so I've been stuck with almost 25% of my fictional world's complete history and culture.
@@Kneirrosworld builders disease.
@@Bzerker01 update: it's now at 80%
"NO IDEA WHY IM PAUSING HERE", This is GOLD. Thank you! Also, as always, love your story writing content!
Darn, that was actually a pretty convincing American accent, **better than my New Zealand accent at least. lol**
Everyone can do an ameican accent, since everyone knows what they shound like.
10:09 Shard BLADE, the process of binding the dead blade changes the eye color, owning a PLATE makes you practically lighteyes, but not physically.
The perfect beginning doesn‘t exist
Tim: hold my beer
and hold up your weapons, tools and fists-united! For me shall strike down our oppressors. Rise up, my brethren! Do not fear for your lives- you only have your chains to lose
I love this stuff, it's like watching Masterclass
One of my favorite class mix ups lately came from Fire Emblem Three Houses, each of the units have different reactions to which route you go down, and while you’d assume most of the nobles would want to keep a noble society they are all more than happy to overthrow the status quo in Edlegard’s route
That one is particularly interesting because while the means of enforcement for the existing hierarchy haven't entirely decayed, the bloodline-exclusive magic it rests on is thinning out and so the upper class is also feeling the pressure, with some noble characters becoming disillusioned (e.g. Sylvain and Hanneman's backstories). The religion is also a factor, since the class system relies on it to justify itself while going against its stated moral values. Basically, the power hasn't actually shifted yet, but almost nobody is satisfied with the existing system anymore, and in all endings it changes in some ways.
Михаил Дворецкий I’m in the middle Rhea’s route but so far only Dimitri keeps a monarchy while Claude and Edelgard both do a representative republic / oligarchy based on merit, but even in Dimitris route they talk about the need to uplift citizens without crests which strays away from fantasy’s bad habit of magic blood = rightful ruler that FE is super guilty about
Somebody has probably mentioned this already, but your videos have a near ASMR effect in addition to being absolutely brilliant period
Minor quibble: in the Stormlight Archive, it is bonding to a Shard*blade* that causea a change of eye color.
All in all good stuff though :D.
I saw Nier:Automata on the thumbnail and really wanted to hear something about it. But then it was just used for one tiny example. *sad android noises*
beep boop?
I'm actually a bit triggered by it. I mean he say's "android society" but then quotes YoRHa type designations, which literally only apply to the YoRHa units and even then aren't accurate, since only Scanner and Operator are actual types in the lore. The "fighter" is a grouping of A, B, D, and G types, "Commander" isn't a type but is a specific character, and the H (Healer) type is left unmentioned..
Clicked because of 2B lmao
I don't even have a system to play the game, just like her design
Same bro
This is what I get for not checking any social media... a sudden video I wasn't expecting, but desperately needed. A thousand-and-one thank yous!
I remember one episode of Victoria where they visit Scotland. The nobles are having their gallant ball, while the servants and other low borns had a dance outside the castle. The servant's dance was less formal and the music and dancing were much more lively. Reminded me of river music in America during the same era.
so many layers to consider especially when you have multiple characters all from different backgrounds and even different fantasy species. man this is gonna be tough lol
8:50 "In The Witcher, magic makes you less socially mobile... So consider Witch Things in your world..." (sorry couldn't let that one slide.)
Also, the mini sketches in between the info were hilarious!
Very insightful information as always! Currently revisiting your book to design my magic system. ^^
I was wondering if you could make a video in the future On Writing Humor? Definitely allows for many Avatar examples!
i was brainstorming with this in the background and looked up to see Tim's evil smiling face atop a class pyramid. i laughed way too hard
I was planning on creating class system in one of my worlds so it's good thing that you made this video. Cant wait to see the second one.
7:40 good news for you. I heard coal mining hell 1 just opened.
Good to see the video starting with wealth, fame, and power
Mate your channel is a gem! Thanks so much!
I'm a simple man: I see stormlight, I watch video
On the topic of class systems makes me think of the Red Rising saga by Pierce Brown. Going against the class system in that series results in a multi planetary war. Definitely worth a read in my opinion.
I SHALL JOIN YOU IN THE CONQUEST, COMRADE
This is why Tim's videos are so valuable. I did forget to think about how class would affect my character's philosophies. Thanks Tim, now my war mongering warrior believe's he's entitled to world domination because of his class system's influence and not just cuz he's a narcissist a-hole hooray!
Is that a freaking reference to *Starcraft,* one of the most underdeveloped sifi universe with an unmeasured amount of potential we will never see? :D
I already subbed earlier in the vid, but I would do it again just for recognizing starcraft's lore.
Thank you for including some Man of Steel in this video! It's one of my favorite movies (and my favorite superhero film), so it's cool to see others continue to bring up the philosophical aspects it introduced.
This channel is among the few where I instantly press "Like" as I know I'm in for a great treat ^_^
These videos on class have set off a cascade of dominoes in my mind, you cannot imagine... I'll probably forget about it in five minutes or so tho lol
19:48 The Supreme Overlord will be very interested in your opinion regarding your place.
I just learned the difference between Giffen and Veblen goods thanks to your video, Tim. Thank you :)
I had to salute at the beggining
"I love hello future me"
>impose dogs aren't inherently better than cats.
*"you're dead to me"*
no species better than another, abolish all unjust hierarchies, from each according to having hands, to each according to wanting to be petted.
I watch these world building videos for D&D this is so helpful All Hail the eternal leader Mishka!!!
I'm a simple man. I see Zuko and 2B, I click.
I don’t know how I only just now discovered your videos but they are absolutely amazing and it’s obvious how much care and effort you put into your work idk if these comments mean much to you but I really appreciate your work
About the Stormlight Archive: there's more mobility than you implied. Nested within the broad categories of eye color lies a finer resolution class system of "dahns". And there's actually some practical overlap where a high dahn darkeyes has a better life than a low dahn light eyes.
Also, so timely! I'm plotting -the glorious revolution- a story about class conflict now.
And this aspect that some people of lower status can have in practice better life standard than some of higher status is a thing that happened in real life - for example in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there was a lot of nobility (about 10% of society) and many of this nobility was very poor and were living in practice just as peasants.
Most people watching this are probably D&d DM's XD
Well I am so...
DM, you say? DAFuq are you talkin about?
Well, when you're writing you can just make the characters never think about the funnily details, but your players will definitely want to know wether they can give a nobleman more money to lower their status and increase the players own power.
Long live the revolution!!! Power to the people!!!
A good example of a Caste System are the Dwarves from Dragon Age: Origins.
The Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett is a very good example of class based world building. The Krasians in particular are a fantastically written caste based society.
Let's go my comrades. Let's destroy class based hierarchical structures in our own fantasies , because we sure as hell don't have a chance doing so in this dystopia ;D
If we did, nothing would stop another hierarchical structure from taking shape. It just be like that sometimes.
A las barricadas, comrade!
@@MrWesford I mean, how about proper democracy with checks and balances taken seriously? Y'know, anarcho-communism?
;-;
@@MrWesford That's why you have to organize horizontal power structures and democratic cooperatives *before* the revolution kicks off.
That intro gets stalin seal of approval
This is a godsend, I was JUST developing my story's economic system and class system~
I'm being constantly reminded throughout this video of how amazing Ascedance Of A Bookworm's world building is. Gives me the fan chills.
At 10:26 you sir prove your undeniable intellectual prowess!
Dude, mentioning Giffin/Veblen products warms my little stone international economist heart, mate :)
16:25 sorry, but I would pick delicious squid rings over all the diamonds in the world any day.
The Mimbari race in Babylon 5 has an interesting horizontal caste system, and it's and the interaction between high profile members if the different castes are relevant through out all 5 seasons
"Wealth"
Demonitized
On Nier Automata : YoRHa androids can ask to be reasigned as another model. 9S's operator does this to be able to fight on earth. But there's also a sex requirement, male YoRHa units can only be Scanners due to an historical precedent.
That is for the YoRHa androids, the resistance seems organized differently.
I loved your comment on Edo because I currently have to deal with the fall of the Tokugawa Shogunate.
I'm currently playing with a dystopian world with a super polarized class system! I'm doing some stuff where while the upper and lower class share the same main religion. That religion actually reinforces the class system, and prevents the lower class from rising up. I'm so excited about my thing it's crazy
Have you ever considered doing your longer videos as a podcast? I would really like it because I love listening to your videos but don’t always have time to watch the videos.
That Binging with Babish moment: I too pledge alliance to the glorious Baker class!
I love the Bioshock reference in the background
Great video! After watching your videos, you always present questions that I would never conjure up with my world building for my novel. Your logic and discerning of different subjects cause me to go deeper. I truly enjoy your videos wish you had more!
"Having an upper class in an Earth-like society with all the wealth but none of the power and none of the status is probably unrealistic."
*Laughs in Edo Period Merchant Class*
Do you think you will ever do an "On Writing" video about brotherhood and friendship? I've always been fascinated by these types of relationships in both books and movies, especially when even though 2 characters are friends, they see eachother as brothers/sisters.
Video: **starts**
HFM: **communist propaganda intensifies**
Me: *Nani mi comrades?!*
Using this video to help me develop my dnd society, farmers are basically an aristocratic class bc post-apocalypse people are desperate for food and i want to know how to make that believable
"a class for moral untouchables [...] like we should have for people who prefer dogs to cats" subscribed
Mages have a really high status in the world of The Witcher. Witchers can't do all that much magic, what really brings them down in the greater scheme of things is their status as mutants, nonhumans. Ciris journey is an interesting one as she basically successivly goes through most available classes, starting out as a princess, then peasant, then witcher (-apprentice), then mage, then outlaw... (I haven't read the books much further yet ;- )
Come Comrads we must help this fellow servant of the Soviet Union with hitting the like button.
Stalin approves 👍
GLORIOUS!
But seriously though, I'm barely 5 minutes in and already this has inspired some serious worldbuilding questions and solutions that my world sorely needed.
I can just feel the world shifting into place as I ask the proper questions and answer them in greater detail.
It's been nothing short of a...revolutionising experience.
If you see this:
Thanks Tim!
And if you don't see it:
Thanks Tim!
My favorite part of this was at 4:52 where he kept all the New Zealand vowels and added American consonants. It was perfect in every way.
A good example of class is in the light novel Ascension the
Bookworm it explorers very well
Norse farmers during the Viking Age also had a lot of prestige, both because of the scarcity of good soil, but also because they had a lot of dominion over their own field. When we got into the Renaissance era, that’s also a good example when dynamic changes. They’re still at the bottom of the picking order, but because so many died to the plague, landowners desperately needed people to harvest their fields, which in return gave farmers a lot better quality of life changes and wealth compared to what they had before.
One interesting example is how spices used to be a luxury good, then suddenly when they became commonplace, the aristocrats shifted to broths that were labor intensive to prepare, requiring kitchen servants
Wow, thank you for basically summarizing my 4 years study of sociology in 20 minutes. Great job btw , I love your videos!
talking about potatoes in Ireland, a lot of it was down to how the British landowning system worked. Where land was equally divided between each of the sons in a family, which led to larger plots becoming smaller and smaller with each generation. This led to the reliance on the potato, since you didnt need large yields to live of when compared to something like wheat or maize. An example of how power was used to suppress Irish landowners and propagate the British ruling class.
What a time for this to drop
Have you considered doing a video opposite of the redemption arc? Taking a hero and breaking them down until they're the villain? I'd love to see something like that.
I always find your videos helpful. Have you thought about doing a world building video on fictional economies??
Really informative and thought provoking.
Thank you for posting this video RIGHT AS I NEEDED IT! Amazing job, and a great help!
Fun fact on class in the UK. Quite a few lords went bankrupt in the 80's so they have status but no power or wealth. Others managed to keep their wealth, but lords living in small suburban homes is surprising common.
The thing with the Irish and the potato is that most of the good land was used by the English to farm crops for export to England. Potatoes are very nutritional and were grown wherever possable by the peasants to feed themselves.
This comment is mostly cause it would show as the 900th on my phone... I could say thank you, that I’m grateful for these amazing and helpful this video is, but I say that under every video. We all know how incredibly awesome this channel is. But yeah, again, thank you dearly 😌
Mknr deals wonderfully with these topics.