10 Things Fantasy Readers Hate (Writing Advice)
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- I asked 348 fantasy readers about their least favourite story elements.
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⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
00:32 - Modern language & anachronistic terms
02:14 - Slow pacing and filler content
05:02 - Forced humour
07:56 - Shallow magic systems
11:42 - Miscommunication as conflict
13:24 - Info-dumps
15:41 - Poor character development
18:47 - Gratuitous sex and violence
21:01 - Poorly executed tropes
25:04 - Forced romance
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Next week I'll be doing a video on the top 10 things fantasy readers love! So make sure you're subscribed if you haven't already :).
Can't wait! Like your videos a lot.
In the process of writing my first book. Your videos have help me out a lot.
My top 10 things I love to read in fantasy:
1.) Using language that feels at home and is relatable to me and how I would speak as the reader.
2.) Taking the time to develop the small things that don't really matter to the story.
3.) Witty humor at every turn, -specifically helpful in dissecting the harder things to read about.
4.) A magic system that isn't overly complex and I don't want to think too much about it.
5.) When a story is able to build an entire conflict that completely changes the direction of the book just from a simple miscommunication.
6.) Elaborately detailed explanations to everything so that I can really immerse myself in the world.
7.) Simple characters that have no personality. It makes it easy to project my own interpretation onto any of them.
8.) Lots of sex and violence. Like, I don't care if half the characters don't even have cloths at all in the book.
9.) Lots of simple tropes that are easy to see coming. It feels good to call something out before it happens.
10.) Lots of romantic hook-ups. Like if a character is dating one person for a week, and then another person for a day, and then another person after that, -it keeps you guessing whom they're actually going to end up with at the end.
@5BBassist4Christ can't tell if your joking or not-
Okay, that satire comment was actually hard to write with how much I hate some of these things.
Something I actually enjoy in writing a fantasy world is trying to figure out what kind of language they would use. Like the story I'm writing is on a planet that has a moon which is tidally locked with the planet (so the same side of the planet and moon constantly face each other). This affects the language in many ways, -one of which being that "full moon" always means "midnight".
On the conflict thing, I do think there is a place for building conflict through lack of communication, but it has to be done right. In Church History, there is a pretty big split over two different churches (Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox) over a single word: "Christ is IN two natures" VS "Christ is OF two natures". These things do happen in real life, and are often when our pride, agenda, and insecurities get in the way of developing human connection. But shoehorning a miscommunication just to add drama is going to make a book feel juvenile. You have to make the reader relate to the character's flaw that's causing them to avoid this conversation. If (for example) a character is a mother of a young man who is romantically interested in somebody of another race, yet she was raised in a society that is strongly against inter-race relationships, make the audience feel sympathy for her desire to support her son while fearing the societal backlash she will receive if she expresses approval. And then show her regret that she didn't do the right thing when she's old and alone with her husband dead and her son wants nothing to do with her.
Last point on romantic plots. I really do actually enjoy a good romance in a story, but I am also extremely picky on them. I like relationships that take some time to develop, but also that forces the two to really rely on each other. The movie Stardust was a fitting romance for the characters, but developed too quickly for my liking, while ATLA really took their time with developing the character's relationship (which is itself controversial). Counter to my satirical post, I really hate quick date-around romances. Korah literally dated everybody in Team Avatar, and that drives me nuts. I also hate when they set a couple up at the end of one entry, then break them up immediately in the next entry (Korah again). In contrast, How To Train Your Dragon did it perfectly by showing Hiccup's and Astrid's relationship get stronger and stronger with each movie. I don't mind mundane relationships (like if two side characters have a mostly off-screen relationship that gets casually mentioned once or twice), as that will well reflect any person's friend-circle, but I don't like forced relationships that feel inorganic or just shoehorned to get that romance-sub-plot check. Lastly, I don't like a story ending with every single person finding somebody to hook-up with. Instead, most relationships should add something to the story, immerse the realism of the world, or feel like these two characters actually would be in love if they were real.
@5BBassist4Christ thanks for the clarification. Also, I'm trying to write a romance in my book, which is actually literally needed because if it didn't exist... Uhh, things wouldn't be so good... But I don't know how to make it slowly develop. Can you help me with that, or nah? Also, I know how they'd interact before the romance and while in the romance. Just don't know the in-between part.
“When it comes to sex, people generally don’t like it when they don’t want it” great life advice there tbh
😂
So true bro
lol And often can't get it when they do.
We all know that characters have sex. We all know that characters poo. We don't need to see/read either in the book.
We all know that characters have sex. We all know that characters poo. We don't need to see/read either in the book.
I can see Earth cultures in distance space saying, "Busy as a bee", even if they don't remember what it actually means.
We already have a lot of phrases in English that don't make sense if you think about them in modern terms.
We still roll down the windows in cars despite physical window handles haven't existed for decades.😂
Technically, it should be press down the windows.
That's what I thought too!
If the ancestors of the space habitat population have lived on Earth, they probably kept some of their old sayings.
@@Kaede-Sasaki like cameras still making the shutter noise even though they're mostly digital now.
Or "hang up the phone" even though phones haven't had to be *hung up* since like the 1930s or whatever. Before smart phones, it would've been more like "put down the phone", for instance (unless you mounted your corded phone to the wall, sure). And now it'd be more like "end the call".
@@daniellewis3330
We still had slim-line phones mounted on the wall up to the end of the land line era.
We still 'dial' phones, even though almost nobody even has push buttons now.
i think an important thing about the "undercutting an emotional moment with a joke" thing is that THE CHARACTERS CAN MAKE JOKES as long as its not supposed to be funny for the reader. it could be the characters' way if pushing through a dark time or something, and it can work really well as long as its clear that the joke is for the characters, not the audience
Oh my god, I agree so much. I love when character reacts at stress with jokes trying to bring down his emotional pressure a bit, and usually it does not affect the feeling of situation. Even increases it, because you know, character needs to lower the pressure he feels, and it makes situation more heavy for him
I get that, but if the goal to have an emotionally tense or tragic moment then why ruin it with a joke? That's part of the problem I with a number of Disney films for the MCU and Star Wars. They're clearly trying to have a serious moment, but it gets ruined because a joke was thrown in for no other reason that to "lighten the mood."
@@patricklee8088 i agree with that, what i mean is a joke that the audience isnt intended to find it funny. the characters themselves are trying to lighten the mood, or ignore what's going on, or be their normal selves, and the whole point of the joke narratively is that it doesn't work, theyre still in a horrible situation that they arent getting out of soon. or, if it does land for the characters, its like a moment of solidarity with one another and the joke brings them closer together (or theyre laughing because what else can they do?) its not meant to undercut the moment, its meant to enforce it
@@patricklee8088 It's not always to "lighten the mood". It might be a defining characteristic of a character to do that whenever they find themselves in a situation they don't know how to deal with. Sometimes it is meant to specifically annoy a character in particular that's overly serious to set up conflict. Sometimes it can show the different values of a certain culture towards something that we consider heavy but they don't. I could go on for hours about this. It is a tool with applicable uses.
@@VixYW Didn't say it didn't have uses. But when it is used in media it is often during a serious or dramatic moment. That happening once or twice is fine, but it is has almost become the norm to the point I doubt we can have serious moments anymore.
I thought shallow magic systems was an interesting point. I can see why some people wouldn’t be thrilled with it. But I also think the opposite can be true, where your magic system is so complicated that no one can follow it. The tricky part, then, is finding a good balance between the two extremes.
You have to balance complexity and power. If it is too powerful it is pointless not to use it, if it is too weak why does it exist in your story. If it is too complex people will be off put by it, if it is too simple it won't be interesting
That's something I really like about the magic system in the Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman. The detailed description of how it works is in an appendix, not in the actual story, so readers can choose the level of detail they can read into it.
The trick to that tricky part is to know how everything works as the author, but only show what is necessary for the reader to know and leave the rest in mystery. If you're lazy on that part, you'll risk running into a point where you get handwavy with your magic, and the reader will notice. So in the end, every magic system must be a hard magic system on the author side of things, but they can look like soft magic systems on the reader side, if the reader isn't given the mechanics of how they work. Which is ok, they just have to exist.
@@MatrixQ I am currently working on my magic system. I am going to figure out all the little intricacies of the system for that very reason.
Developing a framework is the key, you need a map where to begin and where to STOP. Readers have to understand the basic, but they also need to understand the limit.
Don't do the type moon meme and say "Rules are meant to be broken"
Tropes are like chords in music. You use chords to write a song, you use tropes to write a story. I like jazz because a lot of jazz use similar chord progressions, likewise, I like fantasy because of fantasy stories have similar tropes.
exactly
excellent point. Tropes aren't inherently bad, it's how you use them.
Best analogy so far
When it comes to soft magic systems, I much prefer it when the softness comes from a lack of understanding by the characters, rather than simply a system that can do anything. The depth should be implied, even if it isn’t well explored.
As characters interact with magic more often, and gain more control over it, I think that soft magic becomes less and less appealing, since you would expect more of its hidden workings to be revealed.
The whimsical magic of LOTR for example works because everything surrounding the magic is mysterious, including those who make it. The protagonists never really get a grasp of how the magic works, nor do they use it regularly, so it doesn’t feel underdeveloped.
I'm wondering, would "Not ruining a serious moment with comedy" be shown how in Puss in Boots 2 The Last Wish, they had practically all of the comedy with the villains Jack Horner and the anti-heroes the Three Bears Crime family, but that practically all of the scenes with Death were VERY serious, with the only comedic moment being after the final fight, where Death shouts angrily in Spanish "Why did I have to play with my food?" after Puss reforms, thus making it no longer necessary to kill him, which also helps further the plot, as it quite shows, along with the rest of the scene, that he was only after Puss because of his arrogance and disregard for his own lives, not because he likes to go around and kill people before their time.
I think that, while comedy STRENGHTENED Jack Horner and his villainy, as he could be villainous and comedic at the same time (i.e. his literally using his minions to walk across showed how callous he was toward the lives of others.) Death, on the other hand, didn't NEED any comedy, and, in fact, having a lot would have WEAKENED him as a villain/antagonist.
Puss2 would definitely be a good example for wisely using comedy.
I truly believe that Puss'n Boots 2 is one of the best movies of the past 10 years
And the scene where Puss has a panic attack after running from Death and the - up to this point- comic side character was completely serious in his role as a therapy dog. Like damn, what a scene.
Definitely one of the best animations in the last few years.
Death has comedy in almost all of his scenes.
In the bar, he's making jokes throughout the entire interaction. They only stop really sounding like jokes when Puss starts getting more disturbed to the point of fear. At near the climax of their storyline, in the cave, he's making jokes while the other lives react.
Comedy isn't a thing that's opposed to seriousness. It's a tool, and the movie uses it cleverly to endear you to characters or show them as callous. It uses comedy with Death to teach Puss a lesson about how he toys with fate. He's mocking Puss with comedy, which is great because that is the origin of comedy as an art. It's used to mock the powerful or relieve tension, and it's used in both ways not only in the film, but with Death as a character.
There should be a clear distinction between "comedy" and "bathos", especially with these examples - comedy is a crucial tool for storytelling and characterization, while bathos has kinda been overused (see: every recent Marvel production)
If you're writing according to what other people want you'll have a bad time. Much better to write what you yourself want to read. This advice is still nice to have because you can see if any of it resonates with you. Knowing what you want is not always easy after all.
"What a good advice, I will follow it from now on!"
*Proceeds to write fetish furry pornography with self insert MC*
I think this exact scenario happens way too frequently
I get that but writers also want to make money. Besides if you work as a carpenter and you ask the master how to do something and he says "just do want you feel like" that doesn't really help. Learning how to paint is not the same as painting what someone else tells you. Sure you can pick up a brush and start putting random color on the canvas but that's not how you paint realistic, good looking pictures. I've noticed that quite a lot with writing that when you ask for advice as a beginner, or like in my case someone who hasn't even started yet because he's still in school, and then people tell you "just do what you feel like". Im probably not even talking about you but it's something I've noticed in general. Almost like helping someone is reducing their passion or limiting their freedom
@@revengance4149 I see where you're coming from, but on the other hand, I believe that you're never going to write a great novel if you're writing what you believe other people want to read. A good novel, maybe, but if you're not invested in the plotline and only writing this plotline or trope because it's popular, you're going to struggle to write it and it will show. Personally, I live by "write what you want to read" because if I'm struggling to read back what I've already written, someone reading it for the first time has already put down the book before the end of the chapter. If you're invested in the plot, your reader will also be invested in the plot. In this case, if your reader is putting down the book before it's finished, chances are they would have put it down much more quickly with a reader-catered plot, because there is something else that is turning them off of your story. They stayed because your plot is original and passionate instead of another generic novel they've read a hundred times before.
@@revengance4149 I find this issue constantly with art too. People go out seeking specific art advice, and the people giving it are criticized because "art is subjective, there no such thing as 'fixing' art, changing anything at all is ruining the intention of the original artist" completely ignoring that it's the original artists seeking out advice in the first place.
Not everything is a "stylistic choice" sometimes people need help expressing the things they want to in the ways they want to, and they need structural instructions to form a basis to work from.
One of the problems here is that a lot of people want to write but don't actually have a story they want to tell. So they take a bunch of tropes and story elements and try to mix them together but what comes out is a disjointed mess.
They don't understand what they did wrong, because they threw in a bunch of things they liked in other stories. But that's like just grabbing a bunch of ingredients and throwing them in a pot, then not understanding why it doesn't taste good, even though they've never cooked before, and have no idea how to follow a recipe, just eaten other people's food and enjoyed the taste.
They've never analyzed the dishes to figure out what they liked in it, why they liked it, or how to replicate it themselves at home. Now they've grabbed a bunch of ingredients from different dishes they liked and have no idea how to use them by themselves, much less how to blend them together harmoniously.
Just because you know how to eat, doesn't mean you know how to cook. And just because you like to read doesn't mean you know how to write. It's and art, **and** a skill that can be developed through hard work and practice, regardless of one's natural talent or creativity.
You can make a career writing the same things over and over again, so long as you do it well. No one complains that a pizza place doesn't sell burgers, they just want each pizza to be good. So long as the dough is goid, the ingredients are fresh, and the pizza is cooked properly, everyone leaves happy. You can mix and match different ingredients or even let people choose new ingredients, and so long as your base is solid, people are satisfied.
Those are your tropes. People are fine with tropes. They expect to be able to get a pepperoni pizza when they go out. They expect marinara. It's part of the process. If they wanna try something a little different, like a garlic sauce or pesto instead, they still expect a decent crust, meat and cheese. If you serve apple slices and hotdogs on a soggy flatbread with plum sauce, you're gonna get complaints. Idk if this analogy is getting out of control but y'know what I mean?
People expect pizza at a pizza place, and burgers at a burger place, and if they serve other foods they don't expect them to be as good as the main food. They expect variety in types, but only within a certain range.
Similarly, people have expectations of different fictional genres that make them into the genres they are. Within those genres, a variety of different tropes are expected and even desired, but they are expected to be fresh and well executed every time or they will be distasteful. They expect a bit of variety around how much or how little there is, how it's scattered throughout or whether it's all in one spot, and what other tropes/ingredients they're mixed with, or they get bored or alternatively, overwhelmed.
Like, and I know this is way past the point, but one of my best friends loves meat. Ask him what he wants in his pizza, it's just meat. Ask him what he wants on his burger, it's more meat. If you put tomatoes, pickles, lettuce, ketchup and mustar, he'll eat it and enjoy it, but he'll never ask for it. One time he ordered a double quarter pounder then ordered extra meat patties on it. He was so excited to eat it. Until he took a bite. Multiple layers of dry, unseasoned meat patty, no ketchup or anything between. He nearly choked trying to swallow it. It was disgusting. He ended up taking the extra meat out and dipping it in ketchup to eat by itself because the burger was inedible as is. He had to learn his lesson; balance is key.
Thank you for reiterating that all of these things - soft magic systems, slow pacing, flat-arc characters, graphic content, infodumps, familiar tropes and characters - can be done well by a sufficiently skilled writer. And most of the answers to the survey seem to acknowledge that too, specifying “I don’t like this when it’s done badly” rather than just “I don’t like this”. But I think it’s something everyone needs reminding of from time to time: just because you don’t like something or consider it overused doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad or that other people aren’t allowed to enjoy it.
THIS is what I came to say. None of these are bad in and of themselves. It's when they're done poorly that people don't like it.
Hear, hear! I found another list and the top peeves were dream sequences and italics. Like, what?
Okay if she has a dream I just don't include it, but then the reader will be seriously confused when something from that dream is brought up because it's actually relevant...
And italics, of all things. Emphasis and using it to indicate but not directly use foreign language in fantasy are very common. Another use is writing foreign things, and it even acts as an indicator that it's not English so you can skip over it and just think, "Ah, okay, they said something I didn't understand!" So it's like the reader is there, and they would not have understood it!
thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth. I hate it when people say they don't like slow pacing whereas it just makes a story more immersive if used wisely. If I read a book about a typical adventure party whose goal is to stop, idk, an evil lich, and at no point in time I read a chapter of them having a good time at camp, I'd hate it. And just as much as a similar story where at some point there's some unnecessary romance that's dragged in multiple chapters on end while stalling the main progression. There's always a needed balance, nothing is all black and white, and that's something way too many people tend to not understand
I have a different take on modern language in fantasy stories. Certainly, descriptions and inner thoughts should be consistent with the world. For example, I once read a medieval fantasy where the character observed the "trees were as tall as skyscrapers". Not cool.
But things like "okay" "what's up" and things like that I'm kinda fine with. To illustrate...
In college, I was watching a movie set hundreds of years ago and one of the characters used a contraction. And I commented, "I don't think they used contractions back then." And my friend replied, "Yeah, but they didn't speak English, either."
The point was that what we're watching or viewing is a bit of a translation for the viewer. The language would have been "modern" to them and if the author makes it sound "historical", it doesn't come across as contemporary for the characters.
This is a solid point and it comes into play with LotR's premise that Bilbo's Book translated through the generations is what we're "actually" reading
That's a good point. But if what we're reading or hearing is a translation, it should still have the same level of formality or informality as what the characters would have been saying in their own language.
@@Steve_StowersWell, that's what I'm saying. If it was informal to them, it shouldn't sound formal to us.
I agree. You want stories to be readable by a modern audience, so scrubbing out all the worlds invented in the last 200 years(which is how old "okay" is), makes no sense. Of course you wouldn't expect words like 'yolo' to appear, but something like "The knight saw a woman laying on a street, so he stopped to check if she was okay." makes perfect sense. We don't need people being obtuse and making things incomprehensible, by writing a fantasy story in old English.
I've been catching myself in the medieval fantasy book I'm currently writing. Ctrl+F "okay" is a lifesaver.
What I hate is when you have sequential stories where the character makes progress in each story, but in the next story they are back to square one. over and over. Like the Flynx books.
I don't know if this is really common, but one thing that I hate in stories is no epilogue. I'm not talking about cliffhangers. I'm thinking of stories where it just ends. I want to see if the hero's life starts to return to normal. I want to know what the aftermath looks like. Terry Brooks' Shannara books made me a little anxious because I would notice that there was only about 10 pages left of the book and they were still in the climactic battle.
rushed endings are definitely sort of annoying, after so much pain an epilogue can feel super rewarding
I like the idea of somebody else reading the novel as historical fiction and epilogue is authors note that goes into what happened to characters in history afterwards.
"Before researching this I actually didn't know so much about Syrah Soso but was thrilled to learn..... "
Nancy Moser writes historical fiction and her epilogues are awesome about this
It definitely feels weird to get to know a story, get intimate with it, commit yourself to finishing it, and then not get a honeymoon. I crave me a good denouement.
There's a romance anime that I really like, where I think that the epilogue is satisfying enough in comparison to other stories in the medium, but not as satisfying as it could or should be in comparison to just how dramatic the climax is. The two main characters spend a long time building up this slow-burn friendship until things quickly snowball towards the end where they're both not only admitting their feelings, but running off to elope.
Then comes the massive gut-punch where the girl just ups and runs off because she realizes what they're doing is stupid, immature, and unsustainable, and that she needs to work on her own self-reliance and familial issues. After the credits stop rolling, it's shown that she returns during the beginning of her boyfriend's last year in high-school and tries to surprise him by hiding in a locker. I was happy that there was at least a conclusion, but I wanted a little more than that for the emotional washing machine that the show just put me through.
@@lukeferguson3405 toradora?
Am I the only one that actually _really_ likes, and even sometimes _prefers,_ soft magic systems to hard magic systems?
Yes
No, another youtuber; the magic engineer, talks a lot about this, his take on Sandersons first law is that it is more an issue of foreshadowing, regardless if if your magic is hard or soft you have to tell me the hero can do x before they save the day with x.
I liked the Malazan approach myself. I dont know if the Wheel of Times one was hard or soft really, but that strikes me as the kind i would prefer too.
@@TheMichaellathrop Thanks for that reassurance. I might have to check this RUclipsr you mentioned out. 😁.
@@mEmory______ I'm very much the same. Whilst I'm only on book 4 of Malazan, I love how the magic is done, and the foreshadowing.
The Marvel thing got me, my biggest Marvel beef (which actually caused me to stop watching the rest of the movies) was in Thor: Ragnarok, right at the end. It's the scene where Bruce Banner is talking about if he turns into the hulk then he may never turn back into Bruce and the air was tense and heavy and so meaningful, then he jumps out and you knew his decision was made. But then he smacks into the bridge and skids and it all turns into a joke!!!! I was so pissed! I wanted the weight of him accepting that fact and still doing it for his friends, I didn't want comedy, there was plenty of that already!
Marvel is notoriously bad for this, to the point when a cool moment is allowed to happen it feels out of place.
@@vileluca What sucks is that movie was so good outside of that, one of the best ones for sure.
I've hated marvel movies as soon as they injected GoTG humor into everything.
This. I remember that scene, and I had the exact same reaction. We could finally have a real cool moment that deals with a problem Hulk was struggling with throughout the whole movie, and instead, it becomes a gag. Sadly, Marvel has become notorious for this trying to make everything a guardians level comedy movie everytime.
I was pissed when Bruce Banner struggles for years with hulk and his cousin had nearly zero growing arc.
The miscommunication thing is also a HUGE pet peeve in romance. Just, like, TALK to each other 🙄
It also hits another chord with romance because if you can't even communicate on the most basic level, how in the 7 pits of hell are you supposed to be in a relationship with each other?!
@@ieatredbears5163yes, are we to believe that there is a happy ending when a couple get agitated when they see the other talking to the opposite gender and immediately draw conclusions about infidelity?
It's very rare to see a couple in a romance who actually make sense as a couple.
Usually because the man is both the peak of masculinity and an absolute simp, and the woman is a piece of wood with a face drawn in it
It's an overused trope. Misunderstandings that lead to miscommunications, lack of connection and even straight up conflicts. Really overused ngl. And the authors strongly justify such chaotic canon pairings by the heaven defying automatic chemistry and love at first sight, despite all the misunderstandings that occur between the characters. All it takes are one look, one touch, one smell after all that dog blood conflicts and separations over the lack of real talks 😂
I feel like hard magic systems take magic-something that is mysterious and transcendent-and reduces it to an equation, or something that is almost bureaucratic. Of course, if magic is just another part of the world you’re building and is meant to be mundane, like in Harry Potter , that’s fine. But I love it when magic represents more than power.
Some people just want everything explained. It can be quite annoying. It is magic, ffs.
Did you say that magic in Harry Potter is supposed to be mundane? Because I think that is entirely incorrect.
@@savageraccoon787In HP it was used for mundane things, I think is what he was trying to say.
It’s a matter of perspective. It’s magical to Harry because he comes from outside the magical world, as does the reader. We share in his wonder. But to other wizards it’s just part of the fabric of their everyday existence. And it doesn’t point to anything more significant . It has no real purpose other than to act as an alternative to our science and technology. I love-love!- Harry Potter, but the magic is pretty shallow. And that’s okay.
I have the opposite perspective -- I love when magic is quantifiable. It's fine if not everything is explained to us, the readers/players/viewers/whatever, and we are left to figure parts of it out for ourselves, but I don't want a system of metaphysics that is fundamentally unknowable and unexplainable. I want to be able to figure out how the thing works. The power of a mystery is that it can be solved.
I hate insufferable characters. I’m not talking evil characters or villains, but characters that are just so unlikeable that I’d leave a party if they showed up. If I’m going to bring these characters into my life for a few days or weeks, they can’t be fingernails on a chalkboard. They can have a lot of bad qualities, but they can’t be intolerable.
"That girl who can't communicate with anyone ever tugs her braid angrily yet again."
I had to stop reading those, I know they're popular but I was going to end up throwing the thing at a wall and I was reading on my phone.
So you h8 jarjarbinking.
Im a sucker for medieval european inspired settings. Antiquity too. Doesnt mean it has to be the exact system, designs and lifestyle.
I think in a way, one's own knowledge influences what feels like slight inaccuracy and what murders your willing suspension of disbelief: the more you know, the more blatant anachronisms are.
Corsets in medieval settings are one (of many) berserk buttons for me, doubly so if visibly worn as outer clothing (though that would be just as bad in a victorian setting). It's just painfully lazy; there were such fascinating, weird, strange fashions around ( 'Hell's Windows' , anyone?) that simply going historical = corset is a waste of opportunity.
Of course, I don't have a clue about sailing, so some ship doing something that'd turn it into soggy match sticks within minutes would probably look fine to me.
One of my berserk buttons would be High heels in plate armor.
Using 19th century outfits in a what looks like a 10th century medieval europe inspired setting, kind of looks off too.
One has to be REALLY careful when people complain about medieval European settings. It's a popular thing to say now...but a lot of people don't read the stories that are not in that setting.
I think there are a lot of people who still love these settings.
@@l.jagilamplighterwright9211 Agreed. That setting is my happy place as a reader. Always has been.
For me, especially with modern stories, it's "Suddenly Sympathetic Villain" where we have the villain doing all these awful, destructive things, but then suddenly the author pivots and makes them sympathetic and relatable OR glosses over their crimes and sins. It's just insulting whenever it comes up.
ie: "You killed my parents, harassed and antagonized us at every turn and now you're trying to destroy the entire universe!"
"Yeah, but I'll have you know that I've had an awful life and sometimes I feel really, really sad. --Look at me pathetically crying right now! Why, I bet if you look at it from another point of view, _I'M_ the victim here, fighting for a just cause and you are the aggressor! Pretty weird when you look at it like that, isn't it?"
"No."
I agree wholeheartedly. Seriously, there is _nothing wrong with an unsympathetic, purely evil villain._ Why do _so_ many authors nowadays think that there is?! It annoys me to _no_ end, I swear to Christ.
It's one thing for the villains to feel like that about themselves. We've all met people in real life who are objectively terrible, but they see themselves as victims. It's insulting when the bbeg suddenly is just misunderstood. Listen, if I harass and kill someone, my childhood has nothing to do with it by the time I'm an adult. I'm choosing to be evil, even if I think it's justified.
Ah, the Disney Corollary
Like when there are genocidal rulers that slaughter millions of people, then two minutes later they are right in with the main characters!
Steven Universe cough cough
@@Synthesyn342That's not a good example of a suddenly sympathetic villain at all. Literally, from beginning to end, the story was about how people are complicated and multifaceted people and how to navigate relationships as a central theme. Literally no villain was ever really without sympathy. From beginning to end it was about struggling to handle things in an ultimately positive way and seeking a restorative rather than punishment-based justice. The sympathetic position of the diamonds was built up over a lot of episodes. I think if you saw the story as them getting away with everything and not that they're going to work on fixing the damage they've done, you missed the point of everything.
About "protagonist... not offering a valid reasoning for NOT killing an antagonist." I want to read a story from a henchman's perspective taking place sort of during the end of to after the hero's journey. Hero stormed in killed a buncha guys some of whom may have been friends of this protagonist but then when he got to the big boss he lets him go for self righteous reasons. This rather upsets the protag. Bad enough the hero kills his friends, but then he lets his actual target go? For no real reason? Thus begins a revenge story. Edit. Protag could go all john wick on the hero, or he could fail since obviously the hero is strong and heros always win. Or he could figure out the heros self righteous reasoning and find it makes some kind of sense. So many ways it could go.
This is why that one star wars movie where the soldier (stormtrooper) was upset his friend was killed, decides to hijack a tie fighter and kill more of his colleagues. And somehow he's the hero? Nevermind he just pulled a major Hasan fort hood style massacre and essentially joined the terrorists/rebels.
Times have changed, we've been fed the Batman won't kill the Joker because "If you murder a murderer the number of murderers stay the same" bs for decades and it would only have held up if the villain/antagonist wasn't a genocidal mass murderer. People have realized the "If you kill him you're no better than him" as a lazy excuse when the hero would have been killing one person who has committed enough crimes that they were practically going alphabetically through the criminal code just to make sure they hit every single one.
There's a difference between the hero choosing not to kill because it's their choice and the hero trying to scapegoat with a "If I kill him, I won't be able to stop" when they've never killed before and they've had total control over themselves thus far so there is no reason to believe they would have an issue with just killing this one person.
@@StevenTLawson That's a completely different issue. Batman doesn't fit here since his "don't kill" applies to the henchmen just as much as the bosses.
@@Llortnerof True, but it gets exhausting when that rule is used to allow Joker to live after he blows up a five different hospitals in a week. Batman not killing common criminals because he knows most of them are desperate people doing crime to pay the bills.
Lol I kind of fixed this problem in my stories without knowing it was a problem. The main antagonist in my series can't be killed, only locked away, and that's known from the start. And there's a sub plot where the antagonist isn't killed, but his fate is FAR worse than death. Basically locked in his own mind with his own nightmares and the nightmares of his victim, the nightmares he did to her that he is now afraid of as well. Forever. Not allowed to die. Yeah, I went a little dark, but I don't care lol.
The way to make "miscommunication as conflict" good is to give good underlying reasons for why miscommunication is happening. Characters may have incompatible value systems, ways of thinking, they have preconceived notions and traumas that prevent them from understanding each other. The characters may indee talk to each other, but they would still be miscommunicating.
Yes!! I was surprised when it came up because I LOVE it when it is done well!
Thank you for saying this, I was feeling a bit unsure because the plot isn't really stopped by miscommunication in my novel, but it does cause complications. One person is keeping secrets for reasons. Sure he could reveal them, but first he has to learn that he can trust other people
thank you for this. I should've read further before posting my question on why miscommunication causing conflict is a problem for people.
This is why I'm on board with the miscommunication at the end of Shrek, even though the set up feels heavy handed, it hinged on Shrek expecting people to let him down and Fiona's still being half sure if she follows the script she'll find happiness. So I don't really care it's predictable, cause I believe they'd do that - in a worse movie, that same scene is irritating as hell.
Yeah came here to say this. Also, looking at the conflicts happening IRL, I think 99% of them could be solved if the basic premise is that people would just talk it out. It's about the reasons why they decide not to talk even when talking could be beneficial. I would even argue that this is the foundation for the concept of negotiations.
the final one I can add to. A common thing I've had writer friends tell me is that they wish authors would play the trope of two characters just having a great *friendly* relationship. That can also be played really well if done right. From what I've noticed, readers just really like progression. This isn't saying that we should just give up on the romance trope, but I'm saying that there are so many different ideas that can be played with.
A good example is Richard Sharpe and Patrick Harper from the Sharpe book series and the tv show inspired by it.
The two go from an Irish and an English trying to kill each other to becoming close friends despite being a sergeant and an officer
The example of a “bad magic system” needing more “facts” is a rabbit hole that will never satisfy all readers. “Were the witches pyromancers or eat something?” Say yes. Then someone says “well how does the magic beet/root have magic?” Etc etc.
Sure, take a look at some depth but this is a fix that, well, can’t ever be fixed. It’s magic.
I think of Lord of the rings . Just watching the movie, I accept that they are wizards and have some limitations. They are not Gods ( so to speak), but they do have abilities. It just works without insane details. Having said that, I do not mind when we get more details either.
I don’t think I have to have every little detail.
100% agree with miscommunications. Drives me nuts. I’m like listen, let him finish his sentence instead of storming off and everything will be fine.
I don't know if you've done a video about this, I'd like to see someone discuss it, but a trend I've noticed with books nowadays is both writing and marketing them around specific tropes.
For example, it used to be you'd read a romance and as you're reading it you realize it's an enemy-to-lovers story. Nowadays, a lot of books will outright tell you (often through avenues like TikTok) that it's an enemy-to-lovers story, it will tell you all the tropes it has and all the ones it doesn't as a tool to attract people who like those things and signal those who don't like those tropes to avoid the book, so there's not much in the way of surprises because you know exactly the story you're getting before you read it.
Sounds like what's happened to american news. Everybody knows fox attracts conservatives and NBC progressives.
Everything these days has to appease an algorithm on whatever site the boo/story is posted to. Many use mete-tags so that they can be searchable, maximize that SEO. Plus you there are a tone of readers who now have absolutely rigged "No's" for books and will leave bad reviews because there "weren't warned" of some minor bit of content.
@@loupnuit1 Gosh that all sucks. Thank you so much for telling me about all this.
My books will probably be too complicated to 'trope down' though lol. :p except maybe as 'Tolkien 2.0'
*I hope
Why am I getting replies to a comment I don't have here?
My hot take about magic systems is that I feel that a lot of modern fantasy has a problem of overexplaining how their magic works. Sure, I definitely agree that it shouldn't be used as an easy way to instantly get characters out of difficult situations by giving them unlimited power, but at the same time a lot of writers (*ahem*Brandon Sanderson*ahem*) make magic seem more like superpowers than an actual mystic force beyond the realm of mortal understanding.
Well... That's kind of the intention? At least with Brandon Sanderson's works. In the cosmere, it's intentionally designed so that, to the people of the world, it doesn't really feel like magic, because generally, it is not magic to the people of the world who we see the world from the perspective of. Rather, the invested arts are generally treated more as a science, which is how the people in the world see them, depending on the time period at least.
Hard vs soft magic. Brandon Sanderson likes hard magic system, Harry Potter on the other hand is soft (it has both but I would say it's soft)
I agree with you. There seems to be a very strong sway to write hard magic systems nowadays, with set rules and limitations, etc. I love the idea of magic being a newly discovered force, perhaps already inherent in the world, and the characters have no idea how to use it, what it can do, and they have to progress with caution. I want my own magic systems to strike awe and wonder in the reader. We’re writing fantasy here! Let’s write fantasy then.
I personally like soft magic systems. It's not very interesting if you only use it to get your characters out of bad situations, but what if the magic just doesn't work some times. Maybe the character gets magic from a fickle deity. I've also thought about the negative effects of magic. What if your character figured out how to make gold from thin air and decides to be very generous? He could ruin a kingdom's economy.
@@Lark88 Fun fact! This type of economic issue doesn't even require magic. Mansa Musa did that with his wealth in real life.
For me, the issue with sex and violence is that it is often extraneous to the story. If every scene needs to progress the story, than sex and violence can't be the exception. I was a book review for decades and there were a few books that were really sex scenes interrupted by bits of plot.
The notion that sex scenes and violence need to move the book forward also suggests that they themselves need to be plotted out. It can't be endless variation of tab a in slot b. If too much sex is bad, too much boring sex is worse. Same with fights. I plot out each fight/battle with the idea of a mini story structure so it creates tension the way I need it to. Which is why you need heroes who get beat up at least once and guys (or gals) who get turned down by their 'love' interest.
I personally find the idea of “every scene moving the plot forward” a bit limiting in a way. Most people’s definition of that is huge impact scenarios. Every scene should contribute to a degree, but that tends to make everyone afraid to have a moment where the characters just take a breath for a moment doing something else not focused on thw overall main plot. Don’t go SAO’a fishing arc or anything, but give them a chance to interact outside of action or solving problems scenes. Down time scenes can push it forward even by an inch.
@@KW-de9sc maybe it would better to say every scene needs a purpose. As you say it doesn’t need to be high action. Reflection and getting to know the characters moves the story. My problem is with scenes that hit pause on everything while characters do the spicy stuff. I think we’re on the same page
We all know that characters have sex. We all know that characters poo. We don't need to see/read either in the book.
We all know that characters have sex. We all know that characters poo. We don't need to see/read either in the book.
I guess, sex scenes with bits of plot can be a thing too... In their own genre. Which is p*rn. 😂
One tip about world building and info dumping that really helped me gain a different perspective was: Remember that your characters won't know everything about their world in detail either. Just think about yourself. Could you from the top of your head name every single country on earth including their capitals and political systems? Could you in detail explain how a rocket is launched into space? What exact materials are needed, how much force, how long does it take to prepare, what exact forces are at play?
Usually you and your character will mostly only have a surface knowledge of the world and only a few specific areas where you're more knowledgeable in.
I think the "flat character" means boring character. A passive, inactive character who never changes, things just happen to him, reacts the same for everything. A passive protagonists is one of the main reason I put down a book.
I think so too. I understand a "flat character" as a boring, two-dimensionals, bland character. Whereas a character with a flat arc can be iconic, like Indiana Jones, for example. He didn't need an arc because his adventures were exciting and he was inspiring as he was.
I think flat means 2d, ones who have nothing more than you can see in instant
Agreed. A great example was the main character in the book Wolf Brother. I had to do a project on the book, and when I got to the characters section, I realized that he had literally zero personality. His wolf companion had more personality. He was just the tragic hero who had to save the world. The only thing i can thing to define him is defensive of himself. thats all
I like Ioh Asakura precisely for that: being a flat character. My peeve is protagonists, since I detest them with a passion and pray for their demise. Shaman King got me interested because Ioh, as opposed to, say, Shinji Ikari, has a pretty passive way to engage others, which actually moves the plot forward.
Not all flat characters are made equal.
I dont understand not liking a medieval Europe setting. The genre is based on medieval European history and mythology.
Yeah I'm sick of hearing that, idk why it's trending. As an asian person, I'm also done with people constantly saying they want more "asian inspired" fantasy. It kinda feels like lowkey orientalism lol but it won't stop me from preferring knights and castles and such.
@@jjhh320Yeah, There is nothing wrong with non European settings but something about the insistence on it reads as an exotification of other cultures to me. I guess there is some thing shallow and perhaps ignorant in that people assume that the stereotypical England/France medieval setting or a dndish setting is all that could be done with the medieval period (which was a pretty long time and over varied countries) doesn't give me hope that Asian settings would be treated any better.
Same, a good Medieval European fantasy is simply satisfying, but what I am tired of is Medieval European fantasy where the author has done little research on what makes that period medieval at all, where most of the author’s knowledge comes from video games and webcomic, thus making the world feel filtered.
Because of that, I think it's overdone. At least in my perspective, regardless of the genres cultural origins a story need not be rooted in it. I assume that's the case with others, but then preference just is what it is.
I don't really agree with the magic systems, I personally love to write and read about at least one character who is highly powerful, and I also hate when people turn magic into a science, I want the magic to feel... magical. I do agree with the poor character development as that is something I personally like to focus on 🤔
Being highly powerful makes the highly powerful character a deux ex machina though. Antagonists can get away with it but the story loses much of its tension when Bob can just solve every problem with a snap.
Sure, I can see the desire to keep magic mysterious, rather than explaining how it works but it should be consistent with at least one or two established rules.
Couldn't agree about the magic feeling magical thing.
Big part of what makes a lot of anime boring.
@@xxlCortez My problem with this is that it's dependent on all problems being external threats and not about the characters as people. Like people always complain about Superman being too powerful but some of the very best comics are about him dealing with loss of his family, growing up feeling different as an Alien, falling in love, facing death of loved ones etc. because the powers he has can't solve interpersonal struggles and often complicated them. The character as a person should always be more important than their magic powers
If you look at slow scenes that are done well, they're not about gathering nuts, or how to set up camp. It's about the character interactions at that moment. I'm reminded of David Edding's Belgariath series where all the way in the last book the 'hero party' is traveling to the final fated encounter and they have been foretold 'one of your group won't return with you'. Just sailing things. All the characters come to the MC one by one to reminisce and say goodbye.
So the fighter doing maintenance on his armor may talk about how doing this saved his life more than once, how a well maintained sword will serve you truly. Someone can draw a comparison to maintaining relationships, and now you have a set-up to deepen the characters.
As someone who reads a lot of Korean and Chinese fantasy manhwas/manhuas, you can see the difference between the different webtoons too. It's also interesting seeing some succeed in some parts and fail at other parts. Like there could be a great magic system and setting, but the plot keeps changing and it leaves the reader confused.
My biggest thing is plot and pacing. You can have side goals but seeing the main character triumph their goal in a fantasy book is what I enjoy. Also if the pacing is too fast it leaves the journey unsatisfied for the reader.
I was always a very creative guy ever since I was little, constantly imagining stories on my head but I never actually made anything out of them... However I came across your channel some time ago and it has motivated me to start working on my little fantasy project, and I'm having so much fun doing it. Thanks man!
That's awesome!
I don’t think Tolkien ever went into detail about dwarven economies, not to my recollection.
And I’m not sure the Griffindor=good and Slytherin=bad is a good application because Peter Petigrew was a Gryffinor and Prof. Slughorn was a Slytherin.
I think it's the part in the Hobbit where they are at the dinner party and someone talks about the history of erebor, and how they just traded for all their food instead of growing it, and other things like that.
Read Peter griffin 😂
Tolkien didn't get into the magic system either. Gandalf had mysterious and vague powers but he didn't break the tension of the story by virtue of being a busy dude who could only be in one place at any given time.
Tolkien chose his moments during natural dialogue to go into details, and mostly only with characters known to be extroverted, passionate, and talkative, in which it was polite culture to let the person keep talking. I love Tolkien, I feel he got the balance perfectly in a way most authors don't.
And in Harry Potter you're right, I hate people who (most if them) say they love the books but actually only watched the films and say "Gryfindor good, Slitherin bad" when that's totally incorrect, it's just school has cliques but in adulthood good and bad is very blurred.
@@GirlOfTheTardis nah, I read the books, loved the books, lived and breathed the books, and Gryffindor=Good Slytherin=Bad. Just when she thought about giving it some nuance, she saw the fanfic and wrote it right back out. All the Slytherins were born evil and raised evil by evil parents and anyone remotely good gets auto-sorted into another house. There are also bad people in other houses, but they all display some quality that would also put them in Slytherin house. Percy is ambiguous, Wormtail, is pure-blooded and also ambitious, Umbridge is, you guessed it, also politically ambitious, as is Crouch obviously.
Every awful thing a Gryffindor does is handwashed away while every normal thing a Slytherin does is painted as pure evil. The Marauders were worse bullies than Draco Malfoy ever was, actively hunting and physically assaulting other students for years and getting rewarded with leadership roles until after 5th year when they stopped bullying anyone else but Snape, only to keep Lily happy, not because they ever acknowledged doing anything wrong. 4 rich pure-blooded Gryffindors with full support from Dumbledore vs 1 poor half-blooded Slytherin with no friends or family and no support at school verbally, physically, and sexually assaulting him, for an audience, for fun.
As adults they feel no shame and continue to say and do exactly the same things, taking no responsibility for their role in escalating him into evil he wasn't previously capable of.
Comparatively, Draco uses rude words mostly, and rarely gets in a physical altercation, which is evenly matched with him, Crabb and Goyle vs Harry, Ron, and Hermoine, 2/3 of whom are classed amongst the best duelists in their school, with Hermoine judge6as the literal top student in their year and Harry having experience fighting grown adults who've been frontline of a war. His bullying of Neville is purely emotional and we never see him actually hurt him unprovoked. But JKR got so maf about girls writing cutesy fanfic about him she out extra effort into villainizing him, even giving him a random receding hairline in the epilogue because she couldn't stand fans actually liking him.
The sudden Snape deathbed repentance is kinda the exception that makes the rule though. So random. He dedicated his life to being the evil he experienced from the world as a child then thinks he deserves forgiveness? He made a concerted effort to pass on the cycle of abuse till the day he died.
I think miscommunication as a source of conflict actually can work... In stories about people who aren't mature, ie, teenagers. I believe this works if only for the sake of realism, as oftentimes due to emotional immaturity and hormones, teenagers will not properly speak to one another as adults would to resolve conflicts.
Miscommunication happens a lot to adults too but it needs to be more layered
Peaky Blinders isn't fantasy, but one of its most captivating story lines is the complicated romance between Tommy and Grace. Without it, there would not be the depth, nor would we have been able to understand the complexity of Tommy Shelby's character. So by all means include romance if it enhances understanding of or sympathy for a character, but leave it out if it doesn't.
Reminds me of Smallville as the exact opposite: Dear lord, the "Clark-Lana" romantic plot tumor. I swear the writers must have had a mayor crush on Kristin Kreuk, or projected all their 'sweet soft-spoken unthreatening fragile girl' preferences on her, but however it happened: I fervently despised every second that so-called romance took away from more interesting plot lines / characters.
(I think Peaky Blinders probably also profited from having the combo of good writing & really good actors that it takes to sell all those nuances and changes.)
Tolkien was a master. It wasn't Info- dumping. It was world building.
The true master of this was Mervyn Peake. The Gormenghast trilogy was a masterpiece of world building.
@@StoicTheGeek I never heard of it.
Matter of taste ... I think even with world-building you can have to much of it; I'm thinking of several pages about hobbit history and different kinds of hobbits.
Amusingly enough, that's the sort of a thing any 'expert' on writing would black-list, but a really, really good writer can get away with it.
Douglas Adams for example would forever interrupt the flow of his story with some anecdote about the only species on the universe that invented deodorant before the wheel, and I love him deeply, madly, truely.
"Bruh, for real, no cap on a stack," said the ancient warlock atop his dragon.
"Swag," he said as he entered the cave filled with shimmering treasure. "Finna use it to rizz up my drip."
I strongly agree about romance sex and violence, a well written sex scene between two lovers before they have to part ways, possibly forever, a couple forced to work together and slowly falling for each other, or brutal violence from the antagonist can all enhance a great story further.
My personal least favorite trope is the modern slang one, not only do you risk ripping people out of their immersion, you also risk sounded dated because what is hip and cool changes very frequently. No 14 year old ever thought their parents had the coolest way of speaking on the planet.
If you have your knight say "That shit be rockin' bro!" you not only risk breaking immersion, you also risk sounding like someone trying and failing to be cool.
We all know that characters have sex. We all know that characters poo. We don't need to see/read either in the book.
If it must be put in a book, please put behind curtains shelfed away from the kid-friendly books that older kids and even younger kids with higher reading levels can read.
Sounds like your knight is from Monty python 😂
We all know that characters have sex. We all know that characters poo. We don't need to see/read either in the book.
@@Kaede-Sasaki There is no reason to put it behind any curtains unless it has a graphic cover.
But fantasy has kid fantasy (harry potter etc), Young adult fantasy (A court of thorns and roses etc)
and adult, your Joe Abercrombie, George RR Martin etc.
Why would you have sex and violent gore in kids stuff? That's not what I or the video maker means, what we mean is that fantasy for adults should be able to contain adult themes.
10 out of context work use: a fantasy novel where the character "used gravity"
7 poor magic system: a fantasy novel where the MC had such good healing he would heal a wound after it was delivered in a fight. Something that anyone could theoretically do but no one did.
6 miscommunication: the quickest way for me to stop reading a book.
5: so many authors on Royal Road do info dumping to the extreme.
3: violence really depends on the story. I am reading a book called downtown druid where the MC is quite violent but is all on context and works. It works because there are no surprises.
1: romance, where two people get together because there is no better option or it happens immediately. The equivalent of marrying the person you sit next to in a bus, just so you can have romance.
I always had a problem with gryffindor good, slytherin bad. If slytherin is always bad, then why are they allowed to exist, in school even.
Correlation is not equal to causation. When we first learn of the houses, Ron says "there's not a witch or wizard went bad that wasn't in slytherin."
Which means Slytherin didn't create the bad people, but rather highlighted the character traits that could cause wizards to go bad. Such as super high ambition or a thirst for glory.
Gryffindor, meanwhile, highlights bravery which also explains why the wizards in that house are more likely to be heroes. They don't bend to fear like Wormtail and would be brave enough to stand up for what's right, like Neville.
slytherins aren't bad. They are ambitious, and can be ruthless. Those are traits found in most successful people. Of course, they are also traits found in baddies. Slughorn was a slytherin, and he fought against voldemort.
@@AprilSunshine wh. wormtail was in Gryffindor what
@AprilSunshine villainy takes bravery too. Arguably more because you typically don't have as many allies. Also, don't forget harry was supposed to be slytherin Ron was a pussy and Hermione was obviously ravenclaw. Not one of the main characters belonged in griffindor
I agree a lot with the "ruining the mood with jokes" one. Like when I watch Kung Fu Panda (yes, i know its a kids movie) I am fervently irritated every single time there is a supposedly serious scene and Po breaks it by commenting something too casual for the atmosphere. Of course in some scenes like in Kung Fu Panda 2, the antagonistic attitude between Soothsayer and Shen is comical. But in other scenes, when Po is on the rooftops and trying to get out of the cannon's way, he does it in an annoyingly informal way, even going so far as to stopping to take a breath and telling Shen to wait for him, that it doesn't become funny anymore. But its a kid's movie, I know, so I guess it's just made that way.
In this case I think that could be considered to be one of Po’s character flaws that he doesn’t take things seriously but I could be wrong. I also see how that’s annoying though
I'm a sucker for a Soulslike approach on a protagonist: A nobody among many working towards an impossible goal where we get to see them grow and evolve into an actual badass by the end of the story.
I’m kinda ehhh on elaborate hard magic systems, it makes them far too ‘known’, controllable, subject to logical equations and science. It removes the mystique that this is a force beyond the realm of human understanding, with those who wield them being feared. When I was playing Sekiro and saw a weirdo throwing purple skulls at me, I wasn’t concerned with the hows and whys of the purple skulls, only that it was something mysterious and unknown. When it becomes a defined science I lose interest, and if you’re going to do that, just write science fiction or techno-medievalism.
I’m not knocking that, a world of techno-knights? Sick af.
For me, it's the opposite! Magic being studied scientifically is literally my favorite trope in the entire fantasy genre, even if it's not something that's entirely explained to the reader, and I'm usually not as interested if it's clear that it's something we're never supposed to understand. There's a difference between the unknown and the unknowable -- the former is beautiful, the latter is frustrating. If something is beyond the realm of human understanding, the logical conclusion is that we should stop being human.
This might be a difference in how different readers (and writers) perceive magic as a concept, and the fantasy genre as a whole. I wonder if it's in part a matter of different people's backgrounds and fields of study.
@@paigeepler I can't disagree more, being unknowable is what diferentiates magic from science, if it's knowable, understandable, then it's made up science. It's not bad, but it isn't magic, and shouldn't try to be something that it's not.
And before you ask, I'm a chemist undergrad, so it's not a matter of "uh you just don't like science". There is nothing more fustrating than in a story than "magic" that's just fake science with rules that don't add up. I know how that's supposed to look like, and they allways get it wrong.
Regarding hard magic systems not being mysterious….Im learning about space time, black holes, some equations, and these things are infinitely mysterious to me. I guess it’s the difference between knowing how something works a little and what something is. For me, one can keep what magical things are and where they come from nebulous but simply have a mechanistic way in which they can be used, that’s mysterious
“I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.” ― Richard P. Feynman, American Physicist
“Any fool can know. The point is to understand.” ― Albert Einstein
“Money may be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” Louis L’Amour, Author
Inappropriate humor abounds in the military (and amongst first responders as well). It serves to deflect the overwhelming circumstance that surrounds them in the moment. The weight of the circumstance hits home afterward, when the adrenaline-fueled situation has subsided and there is time for self-reflection. Unfortunately, it is also common among those who deal with those emotions to bury them and contributes a lot psychologically to PTSD.
While tragic in real-life, exploring those facets can add a lot of impact to a story's characters. And it is something I am invested in exploring in my work.
This is another good point. I have similar things in my story where the main character tells joke to deflect from how much trauma he has suffered. But I think that because he's the only one who does that, it's okay and it fits. The problem is when all the characters suddenly have the same sense of humor and they inject it into every scene, or when it's clear the narrator or the writer is making the scene funny when it doesn't need to be.
@@ukchanak Injecting a lot of that sort of banter would be suited to say, the military, police officers or EMTs. But, as you say, it wouldn't be a fit for normal interactions. At the end of the day, it is a coping mechanism and goes hand-in-hand with deflecting having to deal with those emotions, at least externally.
one of the better television series that use humor during serious moment but at the same time knowing when to let the event play out properly. I want to say Mash did it expertly. (yes am dating myself) In the serious they are moment when its all about the gag but in other moments they let the silence tell the story.
I only use humour to undercut an emotionally tense moment in dialogue and only if it fits the character. I have one character who uses inappropriately timed humour as coping mechanism to high stress and fear.
Building with tropes is like building a cabin with log: sure, it's been done a million times, but now YOU get to do it.
And there's always an audience for it.
Miscommunication is too often a trick in movies to cut off talking, preventing thinking things through and then raising the tension, because of what wasn't said. Too often I'm thinking so often, "yeez, just adding a few sentences, like any normal human being, would have solved this. I'm tricked!"
Thank you for these tips! I really like the way that you present everything in such a thorough way, it's helping me a lot in my writing process🙂
The sales numbers say that most readers DO want medieval European settings and D&D tropes.
What it actually says is that PUBLISHERS want this. Try shopping around a fantasy story not set in here and you get rejection notices.
@@nyctotheoryPublishers want what will sell. If you get rid of the setting and tropes you would have an entire different genre, which currently doesn't have enough support to bother publishing.
D&D tropes😴😴💤💤
@@maxpowers9129 There are many fantasy stories that have little to do with the Tolkien style or even Sword & Sorcery style.
Thanks, man! Your videos help a whole lot! I’m currently writing a book, so your vids are helping!
I absolutely love info-dumping, like yes, feed me *everything* about the lore, I WILL study every single thing about if it I like the story enough, and love it when people info-dump to me.
I miss the footnote crave of the 00's.
I get the irritation with miscommunication as a plot point and to an extent I do agree- sometimes it feels lazy and even exasperating- but have y'all ever had a relationship with a real human being? Because miscommunication is a truly destructive force. I wish it wasn't, but it is.
I'm also curious what could make the scene a distraction with slow pacing vs. perhaps necessary.
Case in point, the Forest and Tom Bombadil scenes in The Fellowship of the Ring novel. While most of it doesn't really play into the overall story, and could have been removed, as the movie did, in fact, do, the scene in the Barrow Downs WAS necessary as those blades later helped bring down the Witch King in Return of the King, and that's where Bombadil is necessary, to save them.
Then again, every scene that may build the plot in the long run doesn't always have to be action-packed all the time.
Your commentary on the magic systems seems very Sanderson leaning to me. I don't particularly like these sort of very mechanical magic systems, at this point it might as well be science. I like mystical, mysterious and wondrous magic. Of course, it needs to be grounded in a thorough and internally consistent World building.
I enjoyed Last Airbender because they played it kind of fast and loose, still had rules and stayed consistent. Hate legend of korra because they started making things less mysterious.
I think he explains well that its not just about rules, its also about limits. If magic can do everything, there would be no problem it couldnt solve, and since stories at their core always are about solving some type of problem, that would make it a pretty short and boring story.
@@anikanele7958 That's a very superficial way of looking at things though. It's sort of like saying, because I don't trust either myself as a writer or the readers to be intelligent, I won't use a layered, slightly ambiguous magic system that enriches the story and its mysteries. Instead, the only option is to put all the cards on the table and make sure no questions plague the reader's cute and beautiful polished little brain.
@sebastjankrek1744 for me it's kind of like reading and watching LOTR. Everything is mysterious. Then I go read the silmarillion and there's still some mystery but most of its gone. I prefer a story with vague magic that just exists. I like the history to be mythic and vague. Some things should stay a mystery.
@@sebastjankrek1744 I dont know where you get that from, because this has nothing to do with what I said??? If you dont limit your magic, every intelligent reader will immediately point out plotholes like: "why dont they just wish away the evil king on page 3?" And even a vague answer like "they cant" means that there is stuff your magic can´t do, which means it has limits!
The fact that this list contains both "extraneous worldbuilding" and "shallow magic systems" is sending me. Unless the narrative revolves around digging into the nature of your world's magic, expanding on its sources and nuances IS extraneous worldbuilding. As pointed out in the video, it can still be done well, but it goes to show that you'll never please every reader.
I'm glad you went over trope and it's functionality, thank you; great video!
Considering forced humor, my absolute favourite stories use both bathos and pathos - and when at their absolute peak, at the same time.
My favourite film, _Everything Everywhere all at Once_ does this _masterfully._ And it can do that because one of the film's themes is just how absurd life is, without that detracting from how much it means to us. I aspire to write that well.
The miscommunication thing drives me insane. It's nice to see I'm not the only one.
Good and informative video, Jed. I prefer when the author goes easy on intimacy and when he/she allows the reader to conclude what is going on behind doors.
Really enjoyed the breakdown of these and hearing people’s thoughts. I would agree with a lot of these.
Oh man, I disagree so hard with the magic systems thing. Sure, when you're going for a hard magic system, that's how you should do it. However, I generally prefer soft magic systems. Makes the magic feel more magical.
I heard a rule once that you shouldnt introduce more than a couple new words/names per page. The first line being "Beedlerug the Nerblemancer was traveling to Souka for the Jirmervern Congregation" is just going to confuse readers to no end
Just wanna say I love this kinda video
I appreciate it isn't just "here are some things I thought up" but actually engages the community and makes it interesting because I get to hear many people's thoughts before the expert speaks. Really fun to listen to for me
I’m just getting into creative writing and I am so glad I stumbled upon this video. THANK YOU!
I use modern speak in my fantasy novel series because it's based on TTRPG sessions I played and part of its charm is the sophomoric prose and humor at times
I would actually disagree with the "shallow magic systems" point. Sometimes the magic appears shallow on the surface, but is deep symbolically, and ppl just miss it. The sword can create fire because it was forged in a volcano by witches is seemingly shallow, but perhaps the real reason is it symbolizes the uncontrollable rage of the protagonist using it, and the uncontrolled spreading of destruction as consequence. "Because it was forged in a volcano by witches" would be how the sword can create fire, not why. There's a depth there you won't see if you're looking for the wrong kind of details.
As for sex and violence, I do hate this new trend where you basically take the typical romance/erotica drama and add a fantasy flavor to it. Looking at you, Fourth Wing. But I would also add to that when the author has the character swearing too much, or for the wrong reasons. Sure, something crazy happens like you fall into a magic well, or you're fighting a dragon and it's not going well, emotionally tense situations, I expect some personal expression. But the "this is an edgy character, who doesn't give a fff" who swears in every other sentence...swearing is actually a type of filler word, and the more you use them, the more I start glossing over everything they say, because I know half of what they say amounts to nothing.
I'm loving your video essays! These are super helpful as someone who's just really starting to commit to writing a novel. However I was wondering, could you try and maybe put out some more videos about things fantasy authors are doing right? In a lot of ways, I find myself only looking at the negatives even when I know there's a lot of positive aspects to the text I'm working on and I think helping budding writers see some of those more positive aspect could be really helpful. Just an idea, love your videos regardless :)
omg so happy to discover this channel! I bought Thunder Heist years ago (when my debut was released as well) and it's great to see you succeed on RUclips! Great stuff!
Miscommunication is just part of life and its so life like to see that done in a book. It can be done badly if its written badly but its so human. Maybe thats why prople dont like it because theres enough of that in real life that they dont feel like dealing with it in their fantasy books
Maybe I should use my personal frustrations in miscommunication as a reference point for these plots. It would be incredibly relatable to many people.
Even irl between civilians it's pretty pathetic drama, but when people try to make an epic story from it, make it the main plot...it look like a joke, when you realize in the end people could just talk. It's not like the conflict, where no one is ready to agree with other's opinion and everyone sticks to their own view and goals even after a talk. It's realistic. But not when people did not understand eachother because they did not have a talk at all or said double-meaning word. It can be fine for secondary plot for young character to learn to talk and explain, to avoid or fix some problems they can not on their own. But not the main story. Like...a dramatic romance between people who both love eachother, but scared to let other know. Whole plot is pointless until the point someone's love becomes known. Why the hell would anyone want to read that?
@@InayaArtist I think that's tho whole point of many romantic comedies which are usually on the lighter side. There's a whole slew of Spanish novellas that function this way and they get a lot of views. It depends what people like I think but yeah I agree if it's a smaller plot in a bigger story I usually enjoy it more.
@@InayaArtist I’m thinking of nothing remotely related to romance. I’m thinking of every time I say something, and am then “corrected” to exactly the same thing I just said.
@@InayaArtist Also why an epic plot? I was thinking a simple office drama.
Your videos are very helpful and I greatly appreciate the surveys you gave. There is so much fantasy out there that sounds like it would be interesting, but turns out to be filled with boring or annoying things.
Don’t follow his advice. He thinks he knows it all but really knows nothing about fantasy readers.
@@alexandrawinsor881 I will follow it if I want. Follow whoever helps your writing.
I subscribed on this video. Love your insight, and it's really inspiring me in my own writing. Thank you so much!
Thank you for the advice and videos
YES! Thank you. I love this, thanks this gave me so many tips on how to continue writing. Thank you!
I like European themed fantasy, I will die on this hill.
Frankly I find that weird fantasy for the sake of being different is more annoying. My interest in Roshar from Stormlight is limited because it just feels weird to be different. And I… don’t care. I like my Elves, and Dwarves. I just want them done better
I agree, I'll take familiar tropes over being different just to be different every time. If the story is good, than it's good. I don't need the characters to be staplers fighting paperclips instead of eleves and dwarves.
Yep. Some people being tired of elves and dwarves or soft magic system or whatever don't make a writing rule.
Very interesting statistics to hear about! Thanks for doing the survey!
I just discovered your channel today, and I'm excited to see what I can learn and apply to my writing! ❤
Welcome!!
I always cringe when Fantasy of SciFi gets listed alongside Mystery, Romance, Adventure, Horror, or any other such genres. Fantasy and SciFi are setting Genres, the others are Plot Genres. If you say, you love Romance, that says nothing about wether you love Fantasy, SciFi, Contemporary, Regency, Alternate History, etc... Same, if you say, you love Fantasy, there is no indication if you are into Horror, Adventure, Romance, Intrigue, ... This rise in the popularity of Fantasy might not be because the Fantasy Fiction Genre is getting more popular but because the Fantasy Setting Genre is (finally) getting more publications within the popular Plot Genres (like Romance, Crime Mystery, Heist), rather than being type-cast into "High Adventure", "Monster Hunt" or "Travel Log".
Yes, and then there are the crossovers such as Brust's Dragearan Cycle series, McCaffery's Pern series, Moorcock's Eternal Champion series, Heinlein's Multiverse series, Zelazny's Amber & Chaos series ...
One of the things I really hate is the need for some writers to over explain things. I love a bit of mystery, and just as we won't know everything in our own world during our lives, I don't need to know how everything works. I strongly prefer magic existing for the sake of existing and kept mysterious rather than having to quantify it. I also really hate taboo, which is why I don't agree with the sex comments here. It is a normal and important part of many of our lives and is part of who many of us are. People have their own preferences, but I know it is an important part of my life and integral to my relationship, so I would have no problem reading the details of an important part of a character's life as well.
I love your channel, and could really use more videos on writing fantasy dialogue
There's a BIG difference between infodumping and worldbuilding. You can infodump a lot of things...exposition, items, abilities, interpersonal relationships, and even worldbuilding. Worldbuilding itself is about making a world that feels lived in, making it feel real to the reader. And yes, sometimes you need to take a break from nonstop action sequences to reset the "normal" for your characters.
Would you consider doing a video on self-publishing? I am going to start publishing mid-late 2025, and I'd love any advice you have - particularly on growing an audience - not being just a drop in the ocean.
The gore thing always makes me sad in a way because it's such a normal part of life in some parts of the world and when I grew up blood was unfortunately a very common thing for me to see so I'm more used to it than most people, so when people talk about blood and gore as if it is only some fictional thing it gives off a very... naive vibe, I guess. I can understand people might not want to see it because it makes them feel sick but still. The sex part is also sad because it can be such an important thing for two people to bond and I feel like if there's two characters which are very romantic and in love they often make their relationship look really innocent, like after several years all they've done is kissed, so it makes me feel like sex is viewed as something vulgar and unromantic when it can be such a beautiful thing and also important for the characters psychological growth. I have a male character wich has seen a lot of men behaving like monsters and he was tricked by a girl at one time so the sex scenes is important for him to get past those issues meanwhile the female character gets past a lot of sexual shame because she was expected to be so pure and innocent and was taught that sex is just a disgusting act only animals engage in, but I feel like people often forget the psychological aspect of sex and romance and the importance for character growth. I can understand the frustration when it's only about smut (I don't want to read that either) but I would like to see romantic smut which is greatly tied to the story but it feels like I either have the shallow smut part or the innocent romantic stuff to choose between.
I found your videos, and you are a gem! I needed it so much
Great video !!! Loved it❤
"A wizard of his caliber" always bugs me, unless you know your actually doing flintlock fantasy.
I think the problem with yet another medieval European setting, or as I like to call it the generic 14th century, is the opposite of the info dump. I think if you get into the relevant detail of muddy roads and the hero having grown up as a flax farmer you can make the world feel deep and interesting by tapping into that more familiar setting and only having to provide the visible details of your iceberg, but you need enough of those details to make if feel like more than a cardboard cutout.
8:40 when 90% of high fantasy magic is just based or stemmed from the 4 elements: fire, ice, wind, and the ground
Nothing against elemental magic but i wanna see some practical applications for it such as lighting a campfire in the woods with your fire sword or something
Or getting grilled pork when you kill a boar with the fire sword? 😛
I've been struggling with a unique magic system for my sci-fi/fantasy. It's something i wrote wayyy back in high-school. And actually had it published thru a kind of shady publishing company. Anyway, after your "shallow magic" section it finally hit me! I have something that I believe is unique, difficult to use and has many drawbacks, as it is a devastating power to have and use!
The graphic violence and gore stay on during the dark urban fantasy sesh, I agree with the rest though.
I'm probably one of the few people who prefers a classic fantasy ("shallow") magic system to an overly complicated one. Some of the stuff people come up with just leaves me rolling my eyes, and I hate the general consensus that every fantasy story needs it's own unique and special magic system. Having costs and consequences to magic is fine, but when there's 10 pages of exposition explaining everything in great detail, it just puts me off. Kind of takes the magic out of it. Even Brandon Sanderson's metal based magic system had me cringing to the point it put me off reading his other books.
Pacing also seems to be contentious. I see a lot of people complaining that a lot of fantasy stories are too fast paced with characters never having time to breathe. Though multiple sequential chapters of no apparent progress being made is definitely too slow.
anyway, gotta go yeet the dragon and grab its swag so I can put together a new drip and rizz up.
edit: I personally have an aversion to sex and things in fictional media due to how common it was at one point to have the antagonist force-sex the main character's love interest in order to establish them as A Really Bad Dude™. Kind of also ruined love triangles for me, because it seems fairly common for the person opposite the main character to be a violent abuser of some flavour. It just gives me the ick, and I've noped out of a lot of books and shows over it when a love triangle starts to rear its head, because it's almost always used as a lazy source of conflict (usually co-driven by miscommunication)
Romantasy (romance and fantasy 50/50 plot) is a really upcoming 'genre' and its getting very populair. Especially with bookstagram and booktok. Personaly, I love it. thanks again for your awsome advice and insight!
I really love everything that Jed Herne does on his channel. Imo, he is an invaluable resource to not only fantasy writers but to TTRPG game masters who want to offer their players more than just the "standard d&d" adventure. Bravo Jed! You do a great job!
i have a question about the magic system thing... how would anyone know especially if they would be new to the world or magic system how would they know how anything works besides trial and error where facts and details are few and far between?? unless you have a researcher with pages among pages of how things do and dont work which sounds incredibly boring
What I do in my own writing is I reveal it contextually, in ways relevant to character and theme.
In my current story, one of the main characters is a magician, professionally. Her client is demanding to know how certain things work as she does her job, because she's the only person he's met who seems to know what the hell she's doing. He's already deduced a partial answer just by observing her once, so she fills in the rest of that particular answer because he's deduced that much.
The client then uses that knowledge of _one_ magical axiom like a hammer, and everything looks like a nail. Over the course of that single story, the dynamic limits of the axiom are explored by both expert and amateur applications, culminating in the climax of the story, where the client puts an end to the problem by demonstrating an understanding of the axiom.
(Also, the axiom is central to what the villain is doing and how he's been getting away with it.)
@@johnduquette7023 great answer thank you :D how did you walk the line of giving Information without Info dumping?
@@AVD223 I'll try to answer, but forgive me for being a little oblique talking about the particular details of my own work. I don't want to inflict my own worldbuilding and system devising on people who aren't reading the story.
Most of my worldbuilding the audience will never see. Most of the creative formulations may be visible to the audience, but they don't exist for the audience. They exist as guide-rails for how I handle the information.
In my story, they pass a toll-booth castle refurbished from the gatehouse of a Roman-type imperial fortress. Half the walls have been picked apart to make the rest of the town, and the other half buried down the hill from 1000 years of landslides.
I know the name of the general who took the region and built the fortress. I know how it effected the surrounding regions. I know how it opened up a trade route, I know who owns it, and how they all feed into each other.
All I do for the audience is lay out the physical scene of the castle and environs, and maybe a reference or two in the narration. Characters might ask particular questions if inclined. In later stories, details of the extended history might become relevant, and the location can be referenced or revisited as it has new significance.
As for the story itself, it is a fantasy-mystery, so information gets seeded, revealed in increments, and then tied together at each major plot point, culminating in a complete picture.
I'm almost positive that that answer is significantly less helpful than my first response, lol.
@@johnduquette7023 have everything ready and reveal as necessary is more helpful than you think thank you ^-^ and for the Rest i entirely understand you want people to read after all
With my own magic system, I have mechanisms of action that I, as the author, fully understand. The characters, themselves, have some true knowledge and a lot of directionally accurate beliefs, but don't grasp the whole system (narratively and thematically essential to the sroty). Much of the populace is ignorant of such matters, and magi are often greatly in the dark about what their peers are doing and are capable of.
I'm disinclined to include flaming swords for a number of practical reasons, but were any such device to come up in a way where the characters might hear origin stories, they'd likely hear three to five contradictory stories, with no indication that any one contains any truth. This would likely be followed by educated speculation from a knowledgeable character on hand.
The sword could be burning for any number of reasons. Perhaps it was imbued with the animus of a particular elemental salamander, or the animata of a volcano. Perhaps it was pattern-welded in an appropriate flame pattern and was quenched in oil of ifrit liver. Perhaps it was employed as the classic instrument of fire in a potent ritual and never exactly _left_ the spell.
The reader should understand the magic of the main characters well enough to grasp both what they are doing and why the magic of other characters is opaque. This also provides the added benefit of turning the magic of other characters into a puzzle, which reveals character and moves the plot along as it gets picked apart.
Well said!
i agree. The way I explain it is like this. I loved the movie "Ford vs Ferrari." But i'm not a car guy. I don't know the first thing about building a car engine. I don't even have a driver's license. But I can still enjoy the movie. We don't need to understand how the combustible engine works or the finer details of traffic law to enjoy a good car movie. As long as the car doesn't suddenly fly away, I'm good.
I encourage writers to design hard magic systems, but a hard magic system doesn't need to be told in a hard magic manner. Just like Ford vs Ferrari doesn't require you to be a mechanic.
@@FablestoneSeries >"I encourage writers to design hard magic systems, but a hard magic system doesn't need to be told in a hard magic manner. "
This. At its core I'm running a system that can be explained in hard terms, but character ignorance and practical opacity give it the appearance of multiple conflicting soft systems.
@@johnduquette7023 I call it the Ford vs Ferrari rule, but at some point the movie will get too old and I'll have the change the name of the rule.
As often, incredibly insightful content. I like that on paper it sounds like "I just did a survey and I'm giving you the top 10" but you actually come out of your way to explain that and even use it to give advice. Great demonstration of your explanation of being the manner more than the actual content that is game changing. Well done and thanks once again (=
Now I can't help but putting that in perspective with the novel I'm trying to write, ESPECIALLY about number 9. I really have to review my scenes and consider mayhap changing their succession. I've put myself a bit in a tight spot, as what happens is basically, after some initial heavy action the rythm stalls for a couple chapters, like the "quest" is mentioned on Chapter 3 but the journey only starts in Chapter 6, so it's two chapters of the progagonists roughly in the same place and interacting a lot. The thing is that since 1- said quest is meant to protect the protagonists' people, I feel that not having scenes showing those people and their relationships with the protagonists then how would the readers caree? 2- the delay is in the story itself, a consequence of poor leadership (which will be the starting point much later in the story, actually in later books, for the main protagonist's desire for a political change, or at least a change of leader)
I did feel awful that the action slowed down so much after the first chapter, but perhaps if I changed the type of scene more often, there could be ways to make it more organic without having to destroy so much of my work. Big lead for reflexion I really thankful for!
Now just for fun, let's consider introspecting for the rest; oh, yeah, it's maybe mostly for myself than anyone else but whoever's up for it, feel free to browse my retrospection and thoughts (=
10. I mostly agree. Actually, I do like to use slang that feels a bit archaic or as one of OP says, "neutral", but I also wanna add in either case, to me it matters that you're consistant with it depending on who's speaking. My main protagonist is young (like teen about to reach adulthood) and uses more "childish" expressions, especially when in a situation of stress, but she was also taught nice words (which she sometimes misspells) from the "second main "protagonist, who is a little older and a lot more level-headed and used to "formal situations", thus adapting his speech a lot to who he is talking with (mentored himself by a very scholarly character who speaks very formally). Also as a non-native English speaker, I happen not to use that many expressions because they don't come out naturally and I am prone to think about the very semantics ("Gee" would be short for "Jesus", which I'm not even sure all native English speakers are even aware of :P so my characters can NEVER use it). When I do I am more prone to make them up or create my own metaphors, which makes it easier to fit with the knowledge/mindset of the character you're following the PoV of.
8. I dislike that often. Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings did it well for fight scenes, but it did because it also knew to remain dramatic when it had to. I actually do sprinkle a bit of bathos here and there because it fits the character more than the narrative (well, more so for action than emotional scenes; I like that when they are too cool to be true, it turns out to be exactly that)
7. I think I'm rather safe here, with a hard magic system not completely dissimilar to what Jed presents that has clear rules (actual godly ones) set for mortals and limits to what elements it can interact with (depending on the god's element to sum up roughly), and is also draining for the user and requires hard practice and worship, and a soft one, unpredictable, extremely alien for a mortal mind, so much so that attempting to use it willingly is really likely to lead one to madness. A LIMITED POWER!
6. I mostly agree. Even for comedy, I think it needs good writing. I do like however using small quiproquos like it happens a lot in real conversation, ie. one character talking while doing something, the other character saying something in relationship to the thing they're doing, the first one taking it for the response to what they were saying on the moment, getting confused, then the other actually re-contextualizing. It doesn't bring much to the story but how relatable that is.
5. It's that kind of advice that made me completely revamp my intro to replace it with an actual scene from the past that explains only a little but feels more organic, I believe. Because I use character PoV, I try to limit lore-dumping to whether the character has a clue (hence the use of one of the protagonists being more learned, hehe...). I really do hope I don't do too much still, hard to judge I admit.
4. I agree with Jed, and I'd like to nuance it even further; I like to also consider how "settled" in their convictions the characters are, like a "development pace". A young character experiencing new, sometimes traumatic experiences might change a lot in not such a long span of time, whereas an older character, especially a rather narrow-minded one or one who experienced a lot already may not get altered by events, or at least may not for a major course of the story until one massive "slap in the face" eventually makes them shift their views (think Dr House). Well at least that's what I'm aiming for =)
3. Okay two things, one, I really don't know how to make a good character development out of a sex scene and am not super interested in writing them, so I like to fade to black. Two... I'm a fan of Steven Erikson or universes such as Warhammer so uh... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! I lean a bit on the dark fantasy side here, and like to use violent deaths/dismemberements to depict a dangerous, unforgiving world. Furthermore, since I like to use "morally gray" a lot, it matters to me to remind just how casual and accustomed these characters can be with violence sometimes, nonchalantly wiping blood that has just spattered on their face or striking a conversation, talking louder to cover the voices of agonizing foes rattling and screaming in the background. BUT you gotta make sure of your audience, and what's your purpose there (and the age target, I guess). I just think if you depict characters used to death or killing, their relationship to it matters a lot in understanding them, and I personally prefer to make it violent for this reason.
2. Tough one, I like to use a lot of "cliché" tropes (I've got a world with Elves, Orcs and the likes) but try to shape them a bit differently to what I have often seen. I still am not able to take enough distance with my work to judge if it's done well enough, pray tell it's on the right track =)
1. Yeaaah I gotta agree with that. I admit I got a bit lazy there and made it a side thing for now. One of the character is unexperienced and will experiment a flirt with a character but they'll have to go separate ways before it becomes serious, the other one had a love interest prior to the story, and will be apart to. I uh... am not a great writer for romances :P we'll see how things evolve if I get to finish the book and write what comes next.
No matter how much I’ve read it, I’m still a sucker for a good chosen one story.
Can’t wait for next week to see what people said!
Here's my list:
1: Power bloat. If your main character will eventually become a god, that's fine. Just don't make it happen in chapter 3. Put it towards the end, unless you can realistically show him/her struggling to succeed even with godlike power.
2: Real world preachiness. I don't like it when the author uses a story set completely in a fantasy world (especially in a highly contrived manner) to push their beliefs on real world religion, politics, abortion, gun control, etc. It ruins the immersion. Even if I agree with the author, I feel like it hijacks the story.
3: Harem building. It's usually quite ludicrous and contrived. Very few authors come up with a remotely realistic narrative even when they come up with a good reason. Every time I see it starting to happen I cringe in anticipation of the author's failure to make it work.
4: Forgetting what the character can do/what equipment he has, etc. If we establish that the main character can fly in chapter ten, then why is he standing in front of a wall in chapter twenty, trying to figure out how to climb over it? Likewise if he is rich, why is he walking across town and about to miss a deadline when he could easily afford a taxi or buy a car or bicycle for that matter? He's a master swordsman, so why doesn't he have a sword, especially after he just killed 20 bad guys, all armed with swords? PLOT HOLES!
5: Ambushing the reader with protagonist's sexual orientation/identity. If the main character is going to be anything other than standard run-of-the-mill heterosexual, unless keeping that a secret until chapter twenty is a really cool/important part of the plot, I want to know up front. Put it in the synopsis. Don't wait until halfway through book three in a series to let us know the main character is gay, especially if it's about to get raunchy. It feels very retro-active at that point even if the author planned it that way from the beginning.
6: Authors who think DnD and Tolkien = actual earth mythology and folklore. Remember when King Arthur went to the Mines of Moria and fought a bunch of displacer beasts? I don't remember that at all.
I'm agreeing with you so much right now