What You NEED to Know About The Christian Definition of "Faith"
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Both Mormons and Evangelical Christians agree that faith is vitally important to our spiritual lives, but we tend to differ on what faith means. Latter-day Saints believe that true faith includes works as a part of its definition, but Christians believe that faith is a simple trusting in Jesus.
This discussion matters tremendously because the Bible teaches that faith leads to eternal life. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS Church) and Evangelical Christians must rightly grasp the Bible's definition of faith if we are to obey the commands to believe in Jesus.
In this video, we explore Jesus' teaching on faith in John 3. Jesus spoke about the story of Moses lifting up the serpent in the wilderness as an example of the kind of faith we're to have. That story gives us a paradigm for genuine saving faith. As Christians, we don't believe in a faith that includes works as a part of its definition, but rather in a faith which produces works.
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
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6:15 on... also super important to understand!
So important to understand!
Right! It too bad he is so off in his interpretation.
It's worth noting that not all Latter-day Saints define faith in this manner. Many do see a distinction between faith and works-but I wrote this video in response to a lot of the particular responses I've been hearing from a good number of Latter-day Saints on the street.
Regardless of whether you agree with that definition of faith or not, this still represents a good explanation of the evangelical understanding of faith.
Also - if you're curious to look a little closer at James 2 (Faith without deeds is dead), check out our videos explaining it: ruclips.net/video/eaPHRNHdTlk/видео.html
Well said, well said.
Melissa Dougherty's videos about Mormonism are a good complement to this channel.
Faith requires works.
Works are necessary to maintain one's faith.
Works won't do themselves just because you have faith - as indicated in Romans 7:18.
Hey I know that guy in that clip from the beginning! I hang out with him all the time!
Thanks for this!
Amen! Well said! We can't do anything to earn salvation. Nothing. Only Jesus earned our salvation if we believe and don't try to earn it. We don't have any of our own righteousness, none at all. We need Jesus' righteousness; we don't have our own.
@@seekingtruthinallthings3969 Here's the thing, if we believe we can contribute anything to our salvation, we're not putting all our faith in Jesus, who is the only one who earned our salvation if we believe in Him (the true Jesus). Faith in Jesus is a gift from God, so I don't see it as a work, although we do good works; works don't save us, though. Jesus does. I do believe that people with the wrong theology are excluded from salvation (if it's salvific theology). But the Lord said that if you seek Him with all your heart you'll find him. Doing that isn't contributing to salvation, it's seeking God who does all the saving. I hope that makes sense.🤍
Wrong.
@@seekingtruthinallthings3969 I'll try to say it another way.😊 Only the work that Jesus did on the cross can save us. We can't add anything to that. He's our infinite, holy, and sinless God. How could we as wretched sinners add anything to what Jesus did? God says that our righteous deeds are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).
@@seekingtruthinallthings3969 Any religion that says you need to do certain things to be saved like good deeds, temple ordinances, marriage, etc. can't lead you to salvation. We have to put all our faith in Jesus' work on the cross and none in ourselves.
We do good works, of course, but we do them because of a changed heart and out of gratitude and indebtedness to God for our salvation.
Another problem with Mormonism is they believe in a different Jesus than the Bible. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God (the second Person of the Trinity) and has been God for all eternity. He was never a man who worked His way to becoming a God. JWs also believe in a different Jesus, and Catholics, Mormons, and JWs all believe in works-salvation.
@@seekingtruthinallthings3969 Of course there are conditions to being saved. But those conditions don't save us; only Jesus' work on the cross saves us (but you can't be saved without those conditions). Someday maybe I'll understand why God has excluded most of creation from salvation, but for now, I trust Him. His will is perfect, and He's the source of all wisdom and love, so I trust Him.
Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Hebrews 11:1 defines faith, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Its not just believing in anything its putting your belief into something based on SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE.
Book of Mormon, Alma 32:21 defines faith as "And now as I said concerning faith-faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true." This requires nothing but just blind belief. Hoping for unseen things that are true doesn even make sense. Its just based on wanting to believe. Thats why oftentimes their argument boils down to "I prayed about it" because theres nothing there aside from a hope in wanting the Book of Mormon to be true
Very well put! ❤
Amen
I think that one of the main differences in regards to "faith" between evangelicals and Mormons is, that evangelicals believe that only works that follow faith can please God, while Mormons believe that works that "precede and follow faith" can please God, as long as they are both rooted in charity.
And Paul seems to affirm this when pointing out that faith and works, aswell as the knowing and understandings of all things, having the gifts of the spirit, and even sacrificing ones own life, are all of no value, without charity, which obviously does include faith. (1 Corinthians 13)
And so Mormons consider "works that precede and follow faith as a gesture of gratitude and love" towards God, realizing that "without love, we can in no wise know, nor please God", but certainly not to mean though that "preceding works will in any way disminish the atonement of Christ, making it less neccesary or powerful".
The Book of Mormon is very clear on that, when stating:
"I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another-
I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another-I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.“ Mosiah 2:20-21
In other words, Mormons believe that "charity based works enliven their faith", prove the “spirit of their faith”, or as James layed out, that these kind of works are "as vital to faith, as the “spirit is vital for the body”. (James 2:26)
And so yes, to Mormons there is a difference between “believe” and “faith”, and many evangelical scholars actually seem to agree, pointing out that “believe”, in the New Testament, is mostly translated from “pisteuo”, and that “faith” is mostly translalted from “pistis”, meaning yes, they are related, but depenting on its context and grammatica/rethorical use, one is more based on "information" (knowing “about God"), and the other is more about "application" (knowing "about God, and actiong upon that knowlegde"), and Mormons would add, once that faith and these works are rooted in charity, it actually maens that we “know God”. (1 Corinthians 13, 1 John 4:8)
And what I find interesting to ask is, since charity, according to Paul, is placed above faith and hope, even is "the standart" to discern whether a “faith is sufficient to please God”, what if people bring forth works not as a result of faith, but as a result of mercy and charity?
And I think here we learn a lot from the “good Samaritian”, who, from the persepctive of the Jews was a pagan, being most despised by the Jews, according to the Jews believing in a different interpretation of the scriptures and of God, and yet, Christ still considered the good Samaritian to be good, not neccesarely because of his faith, but rather because of his "mercy and charity", and by doing so, was actually doing the will of his father, and by doing the will of the father from a pure heart, actually seemed to "know God" more than those that knew "all about God".
And so I think this is also why James calls this kind of selfless service the “purest form of religion” (James 1:25-27), a religion based upon mercy and charity, and I think the reason why this is called the "purest form of religion" is, because showing mercy towards others will not just lead the one showing mercy to forgive others, but will also have the power to generally “rejoice over judgement” (James 2:13), including the person extenting mercy, for he that has shown mercy, will also receive a judement of mercy (James 2:13), even if faith may not even be part of the equation in every sense.
Very well said!
Evangelical faith just seems so elementary to me.
The unwillingness to obey is an indicator of a lack of faith, but the obedience itself isn't faith.
Why do we argue over these things? Praise the Lord that any man has the kind of faith that leads them to wanting to obey God.
There are AS MANY people who claim faith in Christ as an excuse to not have to obey Him as there are people who try to follow for legalistic reasons, but don't have a solid faith. (Meaning, they're obeying for reasons other than faith)
@@seekingtruthinallthings3969 And I would even go one step further, the difference in believe between evangelicals and Mormons is that evangelicals believe that only works following faith can please God, while Mormons believe that works that precede and follow faith can please God, but only when being rooted in Charity...
Paul makes clear that faith, works, miracles, gifts of the Spirit and knowing all things are of no value if they lack charity, and so what about works that may not be the result of faith, but yet still be the result of charity?
I think we learn a lot here from the "good Samaritian", who was considered to do Gods will by showing mercy and charity from a pure heart, being considered to be "good", though the Jews considered the Samaritians to be pagen at that time, believing they interpreted the Bible incorrectly, aswell as not believing in the same interpretation of God...
And so faith can and will not qualify for salvation without being rooted in charity, and I think this has to do that those that do not love, know not God. So I think it is not faith that discerns between works that please or offend God, but its charity.
Faith means To hear the voice of God.
“This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?” (Galatians 3:2) (KJV or NASB Please)
“So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?” (Galatians 3:5)
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:17). This passage does not mean that you must sit in church and listen to your pastor, it means to hear God by His spirit.
Works means “To be obedient to Faith.” If you hear God through Faith, you must be obedient to what you hear, you must obey God. Remember, the first sin ever recorded was disobedience.
Hebrews 11 teaches us about hearing through Faith. James 2 teaches us about being obedient to what we hear.
In Hebrews 11:17 we read “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:”
In James 2 we see “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” The two same events but showing hearing verses doing. The same is true for the harlot Rahab in both Hebrews and James.
The new law is the “law of Faith. (Romans 3:27). If we hear God but do not obey, then our Faith is dead (James 2). So Works is part of Faith, we must do the Works to complete our Faith. “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:” (James 1:22-23)
Most cannot hear God at this time, for Amos 8:11 tells us; “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:”
But you will hear God at the appointed time, for salvation comes by Grace through Faith (Eph 2:8). Most if not all words which read “Believe” in the scriptures should actually be translated “Faith.” God taught me this 15 years ago. There is so much more but I will stop here.
Many Blessings
Bradley, you said faith is simply “trusting in Jesus.”
You can’t claim to have faith in Jesus without actually following Jesus’ teachings. Otherwise it’s lip service.
Further, your example about raising up the serpent precisely proves my point, and negates your point. When Moses raised up the serpent, all they had to do was *look,* but still they had to act in faith by looking. Belief was not enough. 
There’s a story of lot’s wife, who also did something as minute as looking, and suffered the consequences.
Looking is an action it is not a belief.
You bring up Jesus’ teachings about belief, but don’t bother to mention his commandments and teachings on being baptized. By this argumentative logic, I could say that all we have to do is be baptized because there’s a verse that supports that as well
if you’re going to argue something you need to at least be honest and be comprehensive in the material you cite. Picking and choosing to support one idea over another is not acting in good faith. 
Ultimately, there is a difference between faith and belief in English. I can say I have faith that I will do well on a test, but if I didn’t act on that faith, it is just a mere belief.
I can say that I have faith in Santa Claus, but if I don’t do things to stay on the nice list, then again, I was just acting in belief.
If I have a belief in Jesus Christ, I don’t have to do anything to support that claim. If I say I have faith in Jesus Christ, I must act accordingly, or again, it is a mere belief.
Faith *Always* produces action.
I wonder how big the Israelites camp was when they were bit by the fiery serpents? I also wonder from how far away could one see the brazen serpent on the cross? I cant imagine the brazen serpent was in view of the whole of the Israelite camp. Because of this i cant imagine it was just a casual viewing or a simple looking over to the brazen serpent for healing. It must have been excruciatingly painful when one was bitten by the very poisonious snakes and while being on ones death bed how difficult and painful it must have been to travel across the Israelite camp to view this erected brazen serpent. That's what Jesus was teaching us when He taught what faith is when He brought up this story from the Old Testament. Faith would have motivated one to travel a significant distance in very feverish and swollen state with heavy sickness and great pain to get to a place where they could be in a position to see the brazen serpent. One wasn't healed by just believing that looking on the brazen serpent could heal them, they actually had to exert strenuous effort on their deathbed to travel to the brazen serpent to look upon it with their own eyes for that healing to come. And when one was healed from this very difficult and painful journey to see the brazen serpent I'm sure they testified of their healing and helped their neighbor to do the same. Today we aren't asked to look at a brazen serpent to be saved but to look to Jesus to be saved. Christ was using that story to teach us about what faith is therefore He taught us that we need to do something that exerts effort similar to or after the fashion of or something akin to what the Israelites had to do to he healed. Just believing that Jesus is the Christ without having to do anything as a definition of what Faith is doesn't compare to what the bitten Israelites had to do to be healed. Even the "devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19) but that belief does not save them because that belief does not motivate them to action or exert effort. Saving faith is action faith. We are required to act in order to have faith. The question then follows what are we asked by Jesus to do to demonstrate that we have faith in Him? For the Israelites in this story of the fiery serpents it was to travel under very extreme and painful circumstances to visually view the brazen serpent. Ours is the question what does the scriptures teach what action does Jesus ask us to do in our day and time to have saving faith? If you are to suggest that confession with ones lips only that Jesus is the Christ is all you need to be saved then you have not read the scriptures and if you have you do not understand them. So my question is what must we do to have faith, faith in Christ that leads to salvation?
Using scripture against scripture is a sure sign of apostate thinking. By the way sex before marriage is a sin. Good luck with that.
Not seeking to pit Scripture against Scripture, but rather take into account the whole counsel of God. What does ALL of Scripture teach us about faith?
And.... yeah. Of course that's true. But that's not what this video is about.
@GLM Sorry, but that's exactly what you're doing. Faith without works is dead. As for the other comment, saying it's true is one thing, following it is another. Those that do are on the path. Those that don't are pretending. Simple as that.
I *addressed* faith without works is dead in the video. To quote myself - "A lip-service faith is useless." That's NOT the issue. The issue centers on the definition of faith.
@GLM you don't know the definition of Faith. The Bible gives what it is to someone who begins the path. Soon, they see the evidence is everywhere if they are sincere in following the commandments. Keep trying.
You know I watched this video 4 times, I don’t even know how to strawman your position or steelman ours
I think we just take this L on this one. A big L
One of the weakest parts of our theology and religion is our lack of trust in Jesus alone for our Salvation
Even if we technically trust Jesus alone for Salvation, that information isn’t widely known or believed by everyone in our church and isn’t clearly communicated or preached. I’ve asked LDS members if they believe they trust alone in Jesus for Salvation and they say yes, but if I never asked them that simple yes or no question would they have known they are trusting alone in Jesus for Salvation? Probably not, which means they probably weren’t
Our church needs to get on your level, or at least do better at trusting in Jesus and what he did for us, especially because of how important that is in the Bible
It’s also terrifying that it seems to be a major Salvation issue in Christianity, something so simple and fun and relaxing to do, and we are just missing out on it
Have you considered that maybe the reason the LDS church takes such a big L here and it isn’t clearly preached is because faith alone isn’t even technically true in your theology?
Your 3rd article of faith says,
“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”
It says plain as day that obedience is required for salvation not faith alone. Adding works to the gospel is such a big deal that the apostle Paul says, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8. So maybe you should reconsider if you should be LDS.
@@seekingtruthinallthings3969 as long as you get the works (of love) in there eventually it’s fine
These particular Christians backload works as a “Works-produced Salvation”
Faith = Salvation + Works
He mentions it at the end
They believe that %99.9 of Christians have works, which mind as well be %100
The “Free Grace Community” is the ones that are truly workless Faith = Salvation plus optional works
Alan parr - Free Grace theology for more info
Yes I am LDS
@@1689-Cigars You have to realize that we have completely different definitions of all of our words
Same lexicon, different dictionary
It’s the same thing that is happening in the Free Grace community right now. They have all of your same terms, but with completely definitions. They obviously have different interpretations of verses as well
For example, they believe repentance is “a change of mind”, particularly about who Jesus Christ was. They believe Salvation is “being saved from the penalty of sin”. They believe works in Ephesians 2:8-9 is “any and all actions we take”, and they also believe “Faith” is “superficial belief”. It’s a very watered down barebones gospel they have. They also define “gospel” as “Free Grace theology”
We are the same way, but instead of twisting words to make them less righteous, we actually go the other way and twist things to the right. For example, While “Grace” in Christianity usually means “unmerited favor”, we have a 54 sentence definition of Grace (Charis)
The definition of Salvation in Christianity usually means “being saved from sin and it’s consequences”, but we have multiple definitions of Salvation, saved, exaltation, etc.
As far as the 3rd articles of faith, we already believe all mankind is saved by the atonement, apart from works or even faith. We have a much stronger version of grace alone
This grants the image bearer into the 3rd kingdom of glory. The higher kingdoms require works of love and certain ordinances like baptism, or for higher kingdoms, temple work
So while the highest kingdom celestial requires works “to be saved”, we are just being saved from lower kingdoms, which we sarcastically call “hell”
It’s important to note we aren’t justified by works of the law (Galatians 5:4, Galatians 2:16, Romans), but by works of LOVE. We follow the law of Christ which is to love God and love our neighbor. We also have a 3rd use of the law style obedience to the other laws like the 10 commandments, but ultimately we are justified by Christ and the atonement, and scale through the kingdoms by our love depth in this life and by our relationship with Jesus
If you have ever watched Hollywood Joseph smith the movie (the restoration), you would see there are other loops holes as well. Like if you die on your way to the temple in a car crash, God would see your heart and give credit for the ordinance
If you can’t find a wife, but are willing, there is a 1000 year period to get married
It’s true that Faith alone to get Heaven is Christianity
We don’t even need faith to get to heaven
It’s Grace alone for us to access the 3rd heaven
We also have a very complicated judgment day and mix mercy with Justice and there is even more than this going on
@@1689-Cigars Because anti-Mormons don’t mix our articles of faith with lds theology, but instead read it like a Protestant, I would change our 3rd articles of faith for clarity
“We believe through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved through grace, with higher kingdoms of glory given to those who participate in the obedience to the Spiritual laws of Christ and ordinances of the restored Gospel.”
@@EricLovesCHRIST that’s a great get out of jail free cards I should use that at work.
Boss: “can you go clean the truck”
Me: *goes home*
Boss: calls me “what are you doing? I told you to clean the truck not go home!”
Me: “oh what you don’t understand is we just have different definitions of words you said clean the truck but in my definition of words that means go home early and get paid for a full day.”
You can’t just affirm heresy and say it’s fine I’m orthodox because I “use a different dictionary” that’s not how words work.
As to rewriting the 3rd article of faith, I’m glad you completely disagree with you prophets and all other church leaders who thinks it’s a pretty sufficient summary of what you guys believe. Because that’s what an article of faith is, a short clear statement about what you believe. So I look forward to when you become president of the LDS church and can really clarify the position of your whole church better than all the prophets back to Joseph Smith.
Yeah Jesus was really sarcastic when he talked about Hell too.
““Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” Matthew 23:29-33
So was Peter
“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;” 2 Peter 2:4
Citing a movie for theology and doctrine 😬. That’s a really bad look.