Dreadnought: The Battleship that Changed Everything
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- Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2018
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Sources:
Robert K. Massie, Dreadnought: Britain, Germany and the Coming of the Great War
Ben Wilson, Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy
Music:
“Crypto" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
“Division" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Hearts of Oak. 
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*Video* *Notes* *and* *Links*
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1. So it’s probably worth noting here that when Dreadnought made all other Battleships irrelevant, it didn’t do so equally. For example, Japan had constructed two ‘semi-dreadnoughts’ a couple of years earlier, which more 10-inch guns than was standard at the time. The Americans too were moving towards building an ‘all-big-gun’ battleship, but they were much slower at getting them built than the British.
► Twitter: twitter.com/historigraph
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►My Gaming Channel: ruclips.net/user/Addaway
►My Twitch: www.twitch.tv/addaway
Sources:
Robert K. Massie, Dreadnought: Britain, Germany and the Coming of the Great War
Ben Wilson, Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy
Music:
“Crypto" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
“Division" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Historigraph You got the wrong playlist in the description, it links to your Norway series
Ah balls- I will fix this as soon as I am at my pc
HMS Dreadnought was made to stop an arms race but instead escalated it leading up to WW1......
2:19 Captain Tirpitz? He was promoted to rear admiral in 1895 so more accurate would be admiral Tirpitz.
Just like to note,The aircraft carrier didn't make battleships obsolete, it was the invention of Missile Destroyers and Cruisers that killed the battleship.
Germany: Builds a wooden rowing boat for weekend recreation.
Britain: Instantly builds five 32,000 ton battleships, as a reaction.
Perfectly balanced imo
Codename "wooden boat", try to conceal a dreadnought with wooden plank.
@@imranhazim5434 in pykrete.
@jdog942 to be fair British was navy with it country.
@@BattleshipWarspite
Navy with a very large port that just happens to be a country.
HMS Dreadnaught was the first modern battleship that was not outfitted with a ram. It saw very limited action during WW I and it only sank one enemy vessel - a U-boat. How did it sink it? It rammed it.
It is also the only battleship in history which sunk enemy submarine.
AHAHAHA
@@grlt23 The Royal Navy has a number of interesting records.
First Dreadnought and only Battleship to sink a Submarine as stated in HMS Dreadnought
Only hit on an enemy vessel by a Battleship launched torpedo - HMS Rodney against the KMS Bismark in an attempt to sink the wrecked German vessel.
Longest ranged hit from a moving ship to a moving Target. - HMS Warspite hitting Giulio Cesare at approximately 24km (Shared with the KMS Sharnhorst which hit HMS Glorious at a similar range)
Longest commissioned Flagship of the Navy. - HMS Victory it still is the official Flagship of Royal Navy.e
Ship with the most Battle Honors - HMS Warspite which took part in 15 separate Naval Campaigns During WWI and WWII. (US Navy Battle Stars were awards for meritorious performance in battle or suffering damage in battle conditions so the 20 Battle Stars of USS Enterprise (CV-6) is not the same thing.)
RN also has awesome ships names - like HMS Thunderer, HMS Invincible or HMS Vanguard. But there was one Royal Navy ship which still holds unofficial record of being the most stupid warship name ever: HMS Gay Viking :D
And its brothership HMS Gay Bombardier...
@@grlt23 In the early 1950s when the two Gay-class fast patrol boats were in RN service the word "gay" had a totally different connotation to its modern one.
There is a Russian film called "Alexander Nevsky" in which a very butch viking warrior lusted after girls and was a warrior second to none. The original subtitles (the film was in Russian) had him describe himself as "gay". The revamped version has different subtitles!
Any other country: * has a decent size Navy * Great Britain: *Wait that’s illegal*
USA is doing same with China now
LoL
@@ayushkumar-bg1xf
Well, British empire was kinda dead now.
They can't really do anything nowadays.
*Laughs in US Navy*
sounds like the united states.
Germany: Britain, maybe we could like, chill?
Britain: Oh yeah, how about you chill?
*Builds 30 Dreadnoughts*
Billwurtz
Yeah that was the problem. Neither of them would back down!
The fun Fact. They won 2 WW and still lost more than Germany. Britain today is of no matter to world politics anymore.
No surrender 😉
Admiral Fisher: Now all battleships are obsolete
Prime Minster: Including our own ships Admiral
Admiral Fisher: D'OH!!!!
snakes3425 Admiral Fisher its fine as long as we build more dreadnoughts than the germans
Old-school Microsoft style.
The greatest competitor to Office is the previous version.
Ahahhahahaa jajajaja good one mate
South Carolina and Michigan were on the way anyway.
@@kyle857 Exactly, and I was pretty disappointed the video narrowed the scope so much to just Britain and Germany. The larger global context was much more important. The catalyst for the all big gun battleships was US observations during the Russo-Japanese war, where it was observed that battles were decided by the biggest caliber guns at maximum range, and the smaller caliber guns were mostly used for finishing off damaged ships in the aftermath. Most navies recognized this, with both Italy and France (And of course Britain) recognizing the potential, but being reluctant to fund capital ships that the establishment still saw as a gimmick. However the US Navy funded the production of the two South Carolinas, which were laid down before the Dreadnaught was. That was the real reason for the ridiculous construction timeline for the Dreadnaught, Britain did not want to be seen as trailing once these ships started arriving. Germany, Italy and France on the other hand, they were waiting for completion of the first ships, so they could see what they had to outcompete. Hence the Nassau's being larger with better firing angles then the Dreadnaught.
"Britain found itself involved in the Boer war" - what a nice way to put it.
Britain shipped 3x the entire Boer population in troops to South Africa.
I suppose by the traditional stiff upper lip of the British, 'found itself involved' is adequate terminology.
@@Boxghost102 Yes my dear, we were slightly inconvenienced by it, but in the end it worked out for the best.
@@hds66nl29 i wouldnt call sa "worked out for the best", it's a slaughterhouse today.
@@TS-jm7jm Ah yes, but you are forgetting one smal detail, they gave us the boot long before that. Well their loss I suppose.
@@hds66nl29 you are British confirm?
industry: how many ships we need to build?
british admiral: all of them
Britain: *makes HMS Dreadnought*
Germany: *surprised pikachu face*
MK Germany: Makes Bismarck
Britain: surprised pikachu face
How the tables have turned
Swordfish: is litteraly too slow to get hit by Bismarck's AA
Bismarck: surprised Pikachu face
@@joshkorte9020 the same one that sunk?
That's not how this format works...
Germany: "Oh yeah? We will just pump out U-boats and does unrestricted subamarime warfare. How do you like our torpedoes?"
*The U.S.A. joined the war*
Germany: *Suprised Pikachu face*
Some more interesting facts:
-Despite being well-known for The Dreadnought, Fisher was also a huge fan of submarines (largely because he saw them as a cheap and effective weapon at a time when Britain was burning hella cash building battleships). Consequently, Britain led many advances in submarine design prior to WWI and even started the war with more subs than Germany AFAIK.
-The transition from coal to oil in Dreadnought class battleships arguably kick-started the West's love for oil. These battleships required vast supplies of oil to be kept running whereas previous battleships ran off of coal (a resource Britain had much of). It is no coincidence that it is about this same time that Britain started staring longingly at Persia/Iran's oil reserves and licking its lips
-The three German steamer ships that Britain stopped and searched during The Second Anglo-Boer war were almost certainly up to no good and Britain had good reason to stop them. It was noted that a whole lot of Boer volunteers were on board dressed in khaki.
It was just really hard for Britain to prove that a German SHIP was supplying Britain's enemy, the Boers, a LANDLOCKED nation.
I can only imagine how upset the politicians and bureaucrats are that allowed for the independence of the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait…
Awesome history, the name Dreadnought it literally means “FEAR NOTHING”. What a great name for a battleship.
Dread nought.
Great work Historigraph! Thanks for the shout-out.
As long as you get your dates right Griffin. I don't mind
Charles Ferdinand did you get your daily allowance of swear words today? You really are pathetic with your hyper-masculine views. If you actually watched his videos there is no left leaning slant that you have seemingly been gaslighted in believing. I hope you have a nice day and can get your head out of the gutter.
A fellow conservative
Your the worst tuber there is griff :P
Hi griffin
So the British created the ship which made any ship afloat obsolete, it also created the ship that made that ship obsolete and then I learned they also invented the Tank,
The UK actually planned to build a aircraft carrier near 4 times the size of any modern aircraft carrier out of pycrete, a mix of wood and ice it was equal strength of steel but was much cheaper, the only issue ofc would be that it would be freezing for the sailors so they idea was scrapped, im not even joking, it wouldve been the largest floating object created other than an island
HMS Habbukuk
Shows we weren’t all bad
Yes ,and the radar sets to control guns , torpedoes , the modern sub , the jet engine , angled flight decks , turbines , screw propeller , iron hulls , sonar , computers , gas turbines , sat communication , radio , flared trousers 😂
@@jasonhartley3256 one of these is not like the others.
Great work and great working with you!
A year of this comment being given a heart and no comment.... until now
The dreadnought saw limited action
This enraged its creator, who wrote new designs severely
An oversimplified reference? There's a tax for that
Dude...., uncool...
Britain: We're abandoning the two power standard.
Also Britain: technically, the next two nations put together have 31 dreadnoughts to our 30, so it counts.
Germany: Builds and dismantles a navy twice.
Britain: goes all ham and quadruples her navy size.
USA: repairs the japanese sized dent in its navy and then sits back and waits till the uk exhausts its navy in large wars and then YEETS the #1 largest navy position out of Britain’s hands
"Her"
i heard this story once. an american warship is sailing along the britsh coast in ww2 and morses to the british "how is it like to be in the second largest navy?" and the british reply with great savageness "how does it feel to be second best?"
@@oliverschoneck7750 Well of course the British wouldn't know what it's like to be second best... they'd have to ask the next better Navy at the time, the Japanese... Thankfully the British could rely on the U.S. navy to defeat the Japanese navy for them ^_^
Oliver Schöneck That doesnt even make any sense; the US was still much stronger at sea than Britain was at the time either way.
I believe the past tense of YEET is YOTE
"When the Dreadnoughts themselves were made obsolete by the advent of the aircraft carrier" US National anthem plays in the background despite the fact that the British had the first aircraft carrier in HMS Argus and the Japanese were the first to realize the true potential of Aircraft Carriers because the Americans were the ones who went insane and made 24 of one class of Fast Attack Carrier and created over 90 aircraft carriers in less than 3 years.
It was actually the British who revolutionized the use of carriers as well at Taranto. The US just leant entirely into the class though, where Britain just dipped it's toe.
@@atomicexistentialism8428 Actually, where the British really showed the potential of the aircraft carrier in their raid on the German's Zeppelin launching facilities that would launch zeppelins to raid Britain. The British built the first purpose built CV, HMS Furious (they really like that name, huh?). The raid was a stunning success, the only issue being that it was seen as a one off raid, and that nothing more of the sort like it would happen. But yeah, they realized it at Taranto, but the Japanese really got the idea down, with their Kido Butai, but didn't fully commit. The Americans fully committed to carriers, building 24 of the damned Essex class and Ticonderoga sub-class, having ordered 36 of the fucking things, and coming up with more and better ways to make sure they had planes in the sky at all times. Well, I say fully committed, but I guess not entirely. They did build 4 "fast" battleships during the war, 2 "fast" battleships before the war, and 4 FAST battleships during the war. Oh, and the shitloads of cruisers, destroyers, destroyer escorts, submarines, submarine-tenders, and everything else in-between.
@@johnzgamez810 Furious used to be a Battlecruiser, xD Was converted to a carrier
@@atomicexistentialism8428 oops, my mistake, oh well.
Well yeah, who was first is irrelevant
It’s who uses lots of them successfully who’s remembered
You tell me which is more popular; the panzer or the landship
Germany: *builds a big navy*
HMS Dreadknought: I’m about to end this man’s whole career.
U boat?
Shipbuilders- "How many battleships do you want?"
Royal Navy- "Yes."
@@jrd33 keep going, I didn't say stop
NO! It has to be an "either/or" question or the joke doesn't work. Otherwise you may as well say "What's your favourite ice cream flavour?" "Yes"...
Alot
Ok so holy crap, I guess I'm a huge Dreadnought fan now.
Fisher was extremely upset with the preformence at the battle of Jutland. Bemoaning that they had failed him.
In many ways they had. The decision to use flags to communicate at such ranges, in total disregard to the fact that each new ship had a radio room was madness. Captain's disliked gunnery training because the gun debris made the ship look less pretty, and having a pretty ship helped in promotions.
We should have shot more a captain and admiral following that engagement that had been shot in in the history of the royal navy.
To be fair, at Jutland we see another problem with Dreadnoughts: the new Dreadnought arms race had such a big impact that it became detrimental to Dreadnoughts themselves. New ship designs were being ordered without even thinking of how to use them properly or what consequences would their new technology have. And the most obvious example, showcased at Jutland, was the armor scheme of QE class. They were armed in classical fashion, thick armour on the sides, meant to protect against shells comming on a flat trajectory, specific to ships of the line or pre-dreads. However, battleships were already so advanced that they were fighting at extreme Ranges, with shells comming from above, hitting the thinner deck armour and superstructure.
Let's not forget the brilliant British idea of opening all the blast doors and stacking ammunition and gunpowder outside of their protective casings around the insides of their turrets, handling rooms, and the passages leading to the magazines all in the name of increasing the rate of fire...as Sir David Betty said after seeing three battlecruisers get blown to pieces: "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."
@@snakes3425 indeed, though at least that had tactical returns of faster fire rates. It's not what I would have done but I can see that there were advantage to be had.
But again the cost of having a hit to a turret that would cause a detention of the magazine really doesn't see worth the risk.
@@nottoday3817 true to a degree, but remember that German dreadnoughts had the same issues and this factor can't be blamed for the royal navies pathetic preformence.
@@tisFrancesfault The problem is that the idea of using unsafe ammunition handling to increase rate of fire was a stop-gap solution to the lack of accuracy. More shots fired means greater chances of a hit. Had there been more thorough gunnery training before the war, instead of foolish captains prioritizing how pretty their ships looked over combat effectiveness, it's unlikely that anyone would've even thought of opening the blast doors.
Also, before Britain actually entered WW1 but after everyone could tell it was increasingly likely they'd get drawn in, Fisher advocated that the Royal Navy should launch a preemptive strike on the German fleet while it was still in port at Kiel, citing the example of Royal Navy having done the same thing in 1807 to the Danish fleet at Copenhagen.
Britain: The Dreadnought will make all other battleships obsolete.
Everyone else: congratulations, you played yourself.
Tirpitz has an amazing beard.
19th century schizoid man.
He has two beards.
He also had Hitler's most powerful battleship named after him.
Operation Odysseus: the collaboration that changed everything.
Good video, but some additionnal but important are, in my opinion, missing to understand the Dreadnought revolution.
The first one is the importance of the Fisher's doctrine, which include all-big-gun design AND mobility. The second part of "too weak to fight and too slow to run away" is crucial in the Dreadnought conception: the ship must be able to overcome any type of 1900's battleship, but more importantly must be able to choose when and how to fight and retreat. This is the second part of Dreadnought Revolution: the steam turbine. With this new motorisation, the battleship was quicker in term of cruise speed, can accelerate quicker, and can sustain full power better than pre-dreadnought conception. The battlecruiser was although the pinacle of this conception.
The second point, important to understand the necessity for the Royal Navy to build the Dreadnought, is that other naval power was thinking to their own all-big-gun battleship. Cuniberti, an italian naval engineer which designed some effective battleships for the Regia Marina suggest a quick 12 305mm broadside design, declined by Rome for budget reasons. So he published, with italian permission the design in 1903 in the Jane's journal, which received a lot of interrest around the globe.
Japan particulary, linking the Cuniberti project to their Tsuhima feedback to design the Satsuma, laid down 6 month before the Dreadnought. But, due to budgetary cuts and difficulty to produce 12-inchs gun, she was finally doted with 4 12-inches and 12 10-inches, and lauched after is british counterpart. And, in the other side of the Pacific, US engineer published too a lot of papers about all-big-gun conception, and laid down their own version in 1906 with the South Carolina class. Notable fact, Japan and US do not keep the steam turbine solution for propulsion - too innovative so unreliable - and put their efforts in the design of optimized triple-expansion steam machine and hull design in order to reach the mobility of Cuniberti project. The existence of those projects must be connected to the importance for the Royal Navy to complete the Dreadnought as soon as possible.
The revolution of Dreadnought is not just to put as much 305+ mm guns on a hull: it's a revolution in the conception of naval warfare, with a transition from slow but heavily armored line of battleships to agile modern battleship, able to engage and disengage quickly, doted with powerfull broadside in order to drop a maximum of shells in a minimum of time. Last but not least, the conception of All-Big-Guns battleships (and battlecruiser) comes with the parallel apparition of "light armored cruiser", quicker than older design and doted with homogeneous light artillery (4 to 6 inchs), designed to 2 mission: 1) operate with battleships by scouting them and neutralize torpedo boats, destroyers, the battleships lacking the light but quick secondary artillery necessary to deal with them, and opposite cruiser, for blinding the opposite battleships; 2) Operate alone for sovereignity purpose on overseas station (cheaper than battleships, and efficient enough for covering trade routes and assure presence).
Good show!
Regarding the steam turbines, Satsuma's sister ship Aki did have turbines, and as such was 2 knots faster than Satsuma. So while not as quick to adopt that innovation as Britain, the IJN were certainly on it before the US Navy.
Nearly gave you a thumbs down for not prefaceing your argument with "um, actually".
Unfortunatelly, the idea got twisted and Fisher himself quickly understood the dawnfall of the concept. To form a battle line ships had to have matching speeds, which ment that for budget and limited production volume reasons all ships were esentially limited in top speed and the growth in this area was greatly impaired. This went against Fisher that argued that mobility is the deciding factor for winning a decisive naval battle. Loosing speed advantage was unavoidable though for the reasons above, making the whole doctrine one big joke...
Ultimatelly the thing that saved the BB concept was the restrictions made by London and Washington treaties - since noone was at freedom of deploying 20+ BBs at the same time the evolution once again could continoue and ended with fast battleship that made everything possible, having supperior speed firepower and armour to anything before, thus connecting BCs and BBs with universal capital ship desing. Unfortunatelly, airplanes were evolving much faster.
Russian Navy
Japan: "is that even a thing?"
Unopposed under crimson skies
Immortalized over time
Their legend will rise
And their foes can't believe their eyes
Believe their size as they fall
And the Dreadnoughts dread nothing at all
stuck in my head already
The North Sea has drawn them near
The fleet of the High Seas approach.....
A contest of *Titans* commence, these days will dictate their *fate*
@@ShockwaveTheLogical the Grand Fleet prepares..... their guns
Unleashed as the DREADNOUGHTS CLASH AT LAST!!!!!
@@theunknownwarrior632 Unopposed under crimson skies, immortalised over time, their legend will rise. And their fies can't believe their *eyes* believe their *size* as they *fall*
@@ShockwaveTheLogical the grand fleet prepares its guns
Unleashed as the Dreadnoughts Clash at last!
The HMS Dreadnought was to battleships and Naval doctrine what the1886 Lebel rifle and smokeless gunpowder was to the arms race.
Indeed. And just like the Dreadnought, it was surpassed within a few years by the competition. The Gewehr 88, came two years after and was superior to the Lebel 1886 rifle. That is the fun part of making new tech. It's a short way from superior and ground breaking to obsolete :-)
Its a wonderful irony that the pinnacle of Dreadnought battles is also the very first time an Aircraft Carrier was used in Battle and it was the planes from that carrier HMS Engerdine that were the first RN unit to make contact with the German fleet at Jutland
Dreadnought: "The Battleship that Changed Everything!"
Aircraft carrier: "Hold my beer!"
"Hold my airplane!"
Carries aren't battleships
So it still stands
Jesus Ramirez Romo fuck off let him make the damn joke
Not in 1905 you won't , aircraft couldn't even fly across the English channel at that time .
Ottoman Fleet : we are the strongest fleet in the mediterranean
Russian Empire Baltic Fleet : Hold my Vodka , French! and give me those Paixhans guns
Russian Empire Baltic Fleet : we gonna sail half of the world to attack our enemy back door, it worked against Ottoman
Imperial Japanese Navy : Hold my Sake! Behold the mighty Mikasa!
Royal Navy : Mikasa (built by the British) was a great success, we can add some improve and create Dreadnought
IGN: Hold my Beer! Dreadnought arm race time
....
Royal Navy : You lose! Hippy hoppy all of your ships are now belong to ...
IGN : Nope , we rather sink ourself
Royal Navy : Awwww man!
Kriegsmarine : "Pride of a nation, a beast made of steel
Bismarck in motion, king of the ocean"
HMS Ark Royal : Hold my Swordfishes! I gonna torpedo the hell out of the first ship i see
HMS Sheffield : Hold my Yorkshire Tea! Torpedobeat time
USN : We have so many outdated Battleship at Pearl Harbour
IJN Carriers : Hold my sake!
USS Enterprise : NO , you hold my cola instead!
What a marvelous age to have lived through. Steam power, steel, gunpowder, electrical copper cabling, telegraph.
I keep thinking of all those involved in building these ships. The designers, draftsmen, riveters, smelters, carriers, labourers, carpenters, and all the industries supplying them.
And then the blokes who kept them going, The size of the guns are nothing without the men, the skill, the training to hit their target regardless of the weather and waves.
Its not the ship that thwarts an enemy, it's all the men with their skill.
And I think of the joy, the elation. the pride of all those involved in the construction when they finally see it afloat.
What a fantastic sight for them then....so long ago.
Thank you for those old pics. Thank you for reminding me of who we were.
From an old Aussie.
And the dreadnoughts
dreads nothing at all !
Hands down the Royal Navy have the most brilliantly named ships throughout history. :)
Not always :- HMS Bluebell , Buttercup, Marigold and Pansy must be mentioned.
@@binaway that’s why it’s the most brilliant
The Japanese could argue
@@warmike Yeah, but they'd b mistaken. ;)
Ahem HMS "Invincible"
Excellent video. The HMS Dreadnought started an all-out naval arms race at the turn of the century. 🇬🇧🇩🇪
COME CHEER UP ME LADS 'TIS TO GLORY WE STEER!
Mr BigCookie TO ADD SOMETHING MORE TO THIS WONDERFUL YEAR!
Well, that sent me back to POGO's "Data & Picard".
I've actually read Massi's book "Dreadnought" its a long read but very fascinating. If you do read it, you MUST read its follow up "Castles of Steel" which culminates in a terrific history of the Battle of Jutland. Between the two books you get a complete history of Britain, and the British navy, from Queen Victoria's Jubilee, to the end of WW1
1:17 That intro was perfection. It's something you'd hear out of a professional documentary!
Thanks for all of the great information in the video! Keep it up
I like big guns and I can not lie
and you pre-dreadnaughts cant deny
That’s what she said
Great work, especially all the footage and recreations. You've got the what, the when, and the why. Oh, and the who! And there's the where, all around the land. Love it.
You are quickly becoming my favorite history channel, and I love what you do here. Keep up the amazing work, this is an amazing channel.
Thank you!
Massies's book is a classic ....it not only gives a comprehensive view of the naval arms race prior to WW1 but he also provides a fascinating narration of all of the political/dynastic maneuvering that led up to the war.
A must read for everyone who seeks to understand how that terrible but event occurred
Fully agree, I read a review that described the book as ' a dry read' I found it a terrific page turner and actually more interesting that the follow on 'Castles of Steel'
Super work mate. First class job as usual.
That editing at the start and end with Heart of Oak song is mind blowing ❤❤❤❤❤
Thumbs up if you think the Royal Navy has the best ship names.
@ComicBookGuy - the Royal Navy most definitely had the best ship names!
Eh. They're...Goodenough :3
Like HMS Invincible? Turned out to be rather innaccurate.
agree, although friedrich der grosse, kaiser, and grosser kurfürst sounds pretty cool too
RN really did have some fantastic names for their ships. Particulary impressive are HMS Cockchafer & HMS Spanker, HMS Pansy (HMS Heartsease)
This is literally my fantasy
A very good video, both informative and entertaining. Thank you for uploading
excellent presentation. Having read Massie's 'Castles of Steel' and 1/4 of the way though his 'Dreadnought', I quite appreciate your work. I'm now a fan.
In case you want to play a game of the time period, there is one called Rule the Waves, Rule the Waves 2 is coming march 2019 as well.
WE WANT 8 AND WE WON'T WAIT
GDS Pathe Yes the headline in the Daily Mail in 1908, but even more interesting is the fact that British Dreadnoughts were made using higher quality German steel.
So even then the German industry was increasingly beating British production.
No they weren’t and British steel was considered far superior
Yes... that’s why all British ships used German Krupp cemented armour instead of British Harvey armour.
Britain in spite of leading the industrial revolution was losing it in the early 20th century.
Only its navy was superior. Its army couldn’t hope to match the German army alone.. which took four great nations on and held their own for three years.
Calvin Nickel so a far smaller nation couldn’t beat a far larger one on land and sea alone in a war of attrition? What a great insight lol
Calvin Nickel also are you now trying to say the Germans were alone and didn’t have allies? I’ve seen this silly argument used in ww2 but not ww1 until now 😂
Keep making videos! They're very good, straight to the chase. good job
A thoroughly interesting and detailed video. Fascinating work, as ever your videos are brilliant.
I wonder if the people who designed Dreadnought had any idea the effect it would have, not just on naval warfare, but on _culture_
Look at science fiction, where the word Dreadnought is synonymous with only the largest and most powerful warships. This ship has helped shape western culture for over a hundred years.
Considering England previously used words like Invincible and Victorious for their biggest ships, yes, they did have an idea how cool it sounded.
Star Wars Dreadnoughts
A really enlightening video, and a part of one of the greatest collaborations in world history, so many cheers for bringing this knowledge to us! All this crazy construction makes me think, though - about how much those many floating cities of steel, cool as they were, cost. How much time, money, manpower, resources was spent making these massive fleets, many of which would see no action, or would soon be rendered obsolete by the same frantic shipbuilding? I mean, imagine the crazy amount of stuff that was wasted on all this, stuff that had to have been taken away from somewhere, just because Britain and Germany didn't trust each other? Y'know, now that I think about it, that mighta been part of the reason for that Washington Naval Treaty - to try and slow down the next arms race, so that the competitors didn't risk bankrupting themselves / stealing candy from babies in order to crank out these admittedly badass but somewhat wasteful warships?
Yeah, the Naval Treaties came about as a result of this ridiculous arms race. Battleship building was effectively banned, which is why lots of the British BBs shown in this video crop up in Second World War history too
I would like to make 2 corrections/clarifications.
1. To submarine. Washington Naval Treaty was signed for the reason you stated: prevent a new ship-building arms race. The thing is, Battleships evolved so much in WW1, that all pre-war designs, dreadnought, super-dreadnoughts, fast battleships(QE-class, Royal Sovereign etc.) were all obsolete by 1919. Their speed and armour could not keep up with their guns. Fire controls were also in-adequated. So, if any nation had any hopes of remaining competitive, they had to scrap their navies and start anew. The biggest losers would have been UK, as they had a ton of ships to scrap and US. However, hypothetical situation would have worked great for Japan who just started investing in large Capital ships, such as Nagato class and Fuso/Kongo classes and France, who was not eager to join the dreadnought arms race, only having the Bretagne class(oh the irony). Those two would have had a much easier task of surpassing Britain and US in terms of new powerfull battleships had the treaty not been signed.
2. To Hitoriograph
Your statement - 'Battleship building was effectively banned'- is wrong. WNT did not ban battleships, it would have been a madness. However, it placed restrictions on them, most notably gun size(limited to 16 in/406mm) as there were already 7 ships(the Big SEVEN) completed or under construction/design boasting such massive guns and tonnage. Thus it would have been theoretically impossible to build a battleship with heavy armour and powerfull armament. If it had good armour and guns, it would have been too heavy(for treaty standards) to fit an adequate propulsion system. This is why Britain had to scrap its projects of new battleships and opted for Nelson class(big guns, weak armour and poor design) and KGV class(great protection and speed, but weak armament). Other nations, like France, opted for intermediate gun(15 in) with good armour, in their Richellieu class.
As for 'why lots of British BBs' crop up into WW2, well, not sure what to say about that. Perhaps it is my bad memory, but from the classes mentioned in the video only Royal sovereign and more notably Queen Elisabeths were put into service in WW2. I believe they had more battlecruisers, like Repulse, Hood and Renown built in WW1 and continued to WW2. The reason for this being that the ideea of a battlecruiser was obsolete. Battleships already achieved the speed of a BC with QE oil-fueled turbines and they had more armour and better guns. WW1 battleships like QE were kept into service because they were still pretty capable( early 16in guns of the Big SEVEN were not very potent compared to the tested 14-15in guns in service). 16 guns started to pack a signifiant punch with the US super-heavy shells in WW2 and evolution aiming systems. Also, there was no enemy on the horizon, apart from Japan and US, which had Colorado and Nagato classes, no other nation in the world possessed battleships with guns with a caliber above 13.5in.
@@nottoday3817 The WNT did temporarily ban battleship construction for 10 years, with exemptions for Mutsu, Colorado, and West Virginia, and for allowing Britain to build 2 treaty-compliant 16-inch gun BBs of their own (Britain was never going to accept the US and Japan getting to have 16-inch guns while they had none of their own).
Also, the Nelsons' armor was wasn't bad at all. Until the Yamato-class was built, they had the thickest armor of any ships in the world. The problem was that their 16"/45 guns had some very poor design choices. Particularly a shell that was too light and thus was barely an improvement over the 15"/42 guns of the preceding classes when it came to penetrating the side armor of enemy ships, and was actually inferior in terms of penetrating deck armor.
I guess a lot of these ships were built hoping for the best but ready for the worst. A modern comparison would be Inter Continental Nuclear weapons. The stockpiles retained by the Nuclear powers, especially USA & USSR/Russia were colossal and worth billions. Each side knew the capabilities of each & therefore backed down from implementation. The consequences of these massive ships have a conflict were generally avoided if possible but if so it was a specific event, not global destruction as with Nukes.
So my point is that these bigger more offensive vessels were a message to each possible enemy that “ don’t try anything stupid. “ We can blow you out of the water.
A marvelous channel! Keep up the great work!
Great video! I love the cooperation with other history channels, I am going to check them out.
Great vid! Loved it just one minor critique 1:05 that isn’t HMS Dreadnought, that is the half sister ship of Dreadnought. That ship shown there is HMS Bellerophon, she was different for 2 reasons.
1: she had AA artillery
2: she had torpedo protection
You're absolutely right- World of Warships, where that footage is from, didn't have dreadnought available at the time of recording, so I had to use a stunt double
AA artillery came later, with the Neptune class of dreadnought, though most British battleships were given AA guns during World War I. The major differences in the two battleship classes that followed HMS Dreadnought were the switch from 12-pdr (3-in.) secondary guns to 4-in., and having heavy tripod masts for both the foremast and mainmast (Dreadnought had a heavy tripod foremast but only a small mainmast). Mast positioning relative to the first funnel was also improved -- the "fighting top" on the tripod foremast of HMS Dreadnought was just above and behind the funnel, making manning such a location potentially very uncomfortable (remember, these ships all burned coal) and a health hazard. The later classes usually had the funnels between the two masts, making at least the forward spotting top safer and easier from which to view the horizons.
Two things worth mentioning.
First, the USS South Carolina and the IJN Nagato class had been laid down shortly before the HMS Dreadnaught. Both were similar 'all big gun' battleships. The British were able to get the Dreadnaught done first despite being laid down later due to their superior shipbuilding industry.
Second, it wasn't the aircraft carrier itself that made the battleship obsolete. It wasn't until the early 1940s that carrier AIRCRAFT had sufficient range and payload to actually sink an operational battleship at sea before said battleship could catch and sink the carrier...
Yes, the trouble is '...by the advent of carrier aircraft that had the sufficient range and payload to actually sink an operational battleship at sea before said battleship could catch and sink the carrier...' isn't quite as neat a way to sign off the video! ;)
Fundamentally its still the innovation of the aircraft carrier that renders BBs obsolete.
Fair point on the IJN and USN Dreadnoughts designed earlier, I had to cut a paragraph explaining this for time. There's only so much I can fit in to each video sadly.
@@historigraph Problem is the surface combat ship is not obsolete. The navy is going to have the same lesson learned with guns that the Air force learned when it came to guns on aircraft. Many, many battles in ww2 was surface combat ships against surface combat ships. With our focus on aircraft carriers the US was lead into a sense of false security. Surface combat ships still have a place. However using the terms destroyer, Cruiser, Battleships is obsolete. What we need to do is go back to the the rate system.
*First, the USS South Carolina and the IJN Nagato class had been laid down shortly before the HMS Dreadnaught*
That's incorrect. Dreadnought was laid down in October 1905, South Carolina in December 1906 and Nagato in 1917
I believe you mean the USS South Carolina and the IJN *Kawachi* class. The Nagatos were a pair of super-dreadnoughts commissioned in the early 1920s.
But overall, your point is accurate. The British were certainly not the only or even the first nation to begin considering the concepts that would lead to HMS Dreadnought. But as you said, superior shipbuilding capabilities (along with their national will to maintain naval supremacy and Admiral Fisher's determined leadership) allowed the British to bring all those concepts together into an operational ship first.
@Golden Eagle : My mistake, as Wolfeson28 pointed out it was the Kawachi, not the Nagato.
I also appear to have been wrong about the timing. I know the South Carolina and Kawachi were being designed before the Dreadnaught; apparently the British designers were a lot faster than their American and Japanese counterparts as well as their shipwrights.
A terrific effort with this video. Who and why would anyone give this a thumbs down?
Fantastic video as always, mate :)
Yes, Dreadnought did make our own Battleships obsolete. But if we didn't build her then someone else would of. It gave shipyards experience of building such vessels, the navy of operating them, and the designers chance to iron out any flaws or faults, better then it was us!
*would have. Did your grammar get lost at sea?
@@pratikshah7306 I corrected someone else in that way myself once, but then realised that it's ill-mannered when people might be tired or simply not paying attention to auto correct even distracted or whatever. Besides, I thought we were discussing naval history not sitting an English exam. Have you anything worthwhile to contribute to the subject, or is that it?
@@rob5944*apply water to burned area*
briten was like
this ship will put an end to this damn arms race!
everyone else: lets build these kind of ships since other ships are useless now
briten: you cant do that!
tirpitz: oh i dont think so! *screams and builds 20 dreadnoughts*
Dude you should of said
Tirpitz screams IN dreadnought
A quick note. The introduction of the aircraft carrier did note make the battleship obsolete(there were a CV in WW I) instead it was the introduction of proper air navel combat doctrine that made the battleship obsolete
I would argue that the BB didn't become obsolete until the late 50s and early 60s when guided missile technology was being developed to the point that it was going to be able to replace the BB's massed AA batteries as the main defence of the fleet against enemy aircraft. The development of aircraft technology before and during ww2, especially in the Pacific theatre, changed the role of the BB from the main element of a fleet to the heavy element of a carrier group, but they were definitely not made obsolete by that. Also worth noting that the Iowa's weren't finally decommissioned until the early 90s. Land based artillery is good, but it's not 16 inches good.
Superb video. Thanks!
The first telegraph of crongratulations that Dreadnought Received after sinking that u-boat included the phrase 'Bunga bunga!' a reference to the famous 'Dreadnought Hoax' of 1910 :P
Dreadnought Haox XD
I'm more of a civilian ship type guy, yet it's interesting to note that alongside military vessels during the Naval Arms Race between Germany and Britain, civilian vessels also ramped up in production. From 1897 to WW1, passenger ships grew in size and speed in a near mirror to military ships. Heck, around the same time as Dreadnought being sped run in construction, the Lusitania and Mauretania were being built. Nice to see a parallel between the civilian world and the military world.
Your videos on naval battles are awesome, I love them so much.
Keep it up, it's good content.
Still good content.
The irony6 is that Dreadnought also made the Royal Navy's battleships obsolete.
The British shipbuilding industry was their version of the military-industrial complex.
Most importantly, the Dreadnaughts inspired a kickass Sabaton song.
“And the Dreadnaughts dread nothing at all!”
Thank you, thank you, thank you for citing your sources. That's what an Historian does.
Weird how I've been watching your videos for weeks but just subscribed
abosluetly fantastic! keep up the quality
Dreadnought is given credit for being the first single caliber battleship in commission, but that a revolution coming with or without Dreadnought. For me, the leap was the adoption of turbines over the VTE propulsion.
Ah HMS Dreadnought, the warship that gave its name to a whole new breed of battleship that defined the status of its home nation.🇬🇧
And the inspiration for a Sabaton song.
Simply awesome content.
Portsmouth lad right here and this video has me feeling so much pride! Cheers mate 👍
Dreadnought look so similar at that time, modern carriers and jets look so different from each other.
I'm not much of an Anglophile, but I have to give them credit for having arguably the best ship names.
Search, HMS Buttercup
Fantastic videos, thank you very much for better informing me. I hope you can find the time to produce more videos. Happy New Year.
Thank you!
Awesome Video!
INCOMING SABATON FANS
AND THE DREADNOUGHTS DREAD NOTHING AT ALL!!!
U-Boat has entered the chat
Some flying bois have entered the chat
Yeah, but they don’t have kickass Sabaton songs, so victory for the Dreadnaughts, ultimately.
Spot on video mate, spot on.
Excellent video
Let’s be honest. The names of Royal Naval ships is clearly the best like ever. Rule Britannia!
Yet...ironic. HMS 'Invincible' sank after a single German shell penetrate and detonate the magazine
You can have the names. Well take the actual power of the navy.
Tanner Jordan a good name is the first step to victory!
@@jamiengo2343
youre right.
the admiral graf spee made british cruisers shit bricks with its name alone.
and the bismarck scared the entire royal navy shitless just by existing XD
just imagine the reaction of british sailors if the graf zeppelin had been completed lol.
Uteriel I mean the fact you’re boasting about how you weren’t even able to build a carrier with half of Europe’s resources is laughable. Graf Spee got cornered by 3 light cruisers, and swordfish biplanes managed to cripple Bismarck. And Graf Spee wasn’t even really a heavy cruiser but a midget battleship. So... Pretty embarrassing really
Dreadnought to all other battleships, right before launching:
*I'm about to ruin this man's whole career*
I like this style of video more than your usual battle ones
1:03. World of warships, nice! 👍 I love this collaboration as well. I have been a fan of naval history since I was 5 years old.
Yay, more videos!
I’m jealous of all these Naval content...
Napoleon I Bonaparte too bad k&g didnt join them
Really enjoyed your review of a very complex subject.
The U.S.S. South Carolina was actually designed BEFORE the Dreadnought, although, due to slower construction, was launched after. The South Carolina also had a more modern design, using superimposed turrets fore and aft, all on the center line. She was also better armored. Her only disadvantage was in speed since the U.S. Navy opted for longer sailing endurance because of the demands of her Pacific possessions, and so installed trip;e expansion engines rather than turbines.
Interesting. I did not know that. The USN had a huge range it needed to cover, and could be pretty confident that such a ship could operate independently and obliterate anything that was not British. The RN needed this ship dominate the North Sea, and speed was sufficiently useful towards that purpose that sacrificing range and armor was acceptable.
@@ComradeOgilvy1984 The ranges of the two ships were more or less the same, around 6950 nm. South Carolina had a better gun lay out with her superimposed turrets, but she was over 2 knots slower, and had thinner horizontal armour, which might have put her at a disadvantage in a longer range action. Swings & roundabouts, I suggest.
South Carolina, by the way, didn't have Director Firing when built. An American system, based on , although not copied from, information from the Royal Navy, was not installed until 1915.
The main problem with HMS Dreadnought was it made all existing capital ships obsolete, effectively resetting world naval power and wiping out the Royal Navy's untouchable numerical advantage.
It's arguable that HMS Dreadnought was one of the reasons WW1 started.
World of warships ought to open new tiers for the pre-dreadnoughts.
Definitely
Sadly, the World of Warships developers have deemed Mikasa a failure. And don't think pre-dreadnoughts (which would only exist at a single tier) are important enough to make the changes needed so that Mikasa will no longer be a failure.
Personally I think it would be pretty easy to do. This year's Halloween event involved submarines where the player could switch between different types of torpedoes fired from different tubes. That pretty well proves the game engine would also be able to handle a ship that toggles between different types of guns.
So for Mikasa and any other pre-dreadnoughts, they could easily just make it so the player can toggle between controlling the 305mm main guns and the 152mm secondary guns (or whatever calibers other ships have), and whichever set the player isn't controlling would simply be inactive until they toggle back to them. And the same thing could be done with the pre-WW1 armored cruisers that also had mixed-caliber gun batteries.
"Now that our superiority has been proven with 70 battleships, let's declare them obsolete and let the world know we have one dreadnaught!"
Very interesting, very well done. I scanned the comments (500 of them, anyway!) to get the drift, and there're no criticisms in them that I'd echo. I was pleased he quoted Robert Massie's "Dreadnought," which I read several years ago. For an account of what happened to all of those new dreadnaughts (a generic spelling), Massie's equally thick "Castles of Steel" follows the big ships through the First World War to the scuttling of the remains of the German fleet at Scapa Flow - another excellent work. Well done, Historiographer! "Steady, boys, steady!"
Thanks for the kind words. I have also read Castles of Steel- v useful for other videos of mine
@@historigraph I was trained to be a teacher of history, although my classroom experience was limited to two eight-week student-teaching experiences with (shudder!) 12 and 13-year-olds (7th and 8th grade US). In the last 50 years I've read a lot of English and British history and a fair amount of European. Navies fascinate me, from the Athenians to Lepanto to the Armada to World War II (the story of Cape Matapan is one of my favorites - the "Formidable" taking potshots at the Italians with her five-inchers!). Now I have to hunt up more of your work, starting with the Zanzibar Hoax (appropriate from the nation that gave us "Charley's Aunt," "The Importance of Being Earnest," and Monty Python).
As I scanned the comments and listened to your narrative, I rummaged in the Rolodex of my memory for something Lloyd George said about dukes and dreadnoughts and came up with a blank. I gave up and went to the net - and here it is, three years after "Dreadnought" was launched - and having NOTHING to do with ships, and everything to do with depriving the Lords of their veto! "A fully-equipped duke costs as much to keep up as two Dreadnoughts; and dukes are just as great a terror and they last longer."
Cheers!
Battleship: What are you doing, my son...?
Aircraft Carrier: Succeeding you, father.
Hearts of Oak
You are the best at these videos