Replace Lead Bend Toilet Flange
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2021
- To perform a lead bend toilet flange repair is an everyday occurrence here in Brooklyn, New York. There are still thousands of lead bends in service and when a leak occurs you need to know what to do.
To replace a lead bend toilet flange, the art of joining dissimilar metals a.k.a. soldering skill is a must. Unfortunately, the younger generation plumbers aren't familiar with the technique only because they were never taught.
I was weened on extra heavy cast iron pipe and lead bends back in the day and on occasion, I still have to pull out the old soldering box and replace a lead bend toilet flange. I hope you enjoy the video!
Regards & Happy Plumbing,
Bob
My Amazone Storefront:
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Хобби
You are not old Bob, you are just seasoned. Thanks for your videos, its good to see some of that old plumbing still around
If a lead bend toilet flange coupling could be considered a work of art, you created a masterpiece. The word plumber comes from the Latin word for lead, plumbum. Modern plumbing practice may be easier and more efficient than the old school methods and materials but those craftsmen who came up in the trade dealing with the weighty and solid materials that broke your back and taxed your spirit have a psychic and visceral satisfaction from their work that the modern plumber can only dream of having. Gluing plastic pipe and crimping connections is too easy to be appreciated. Lifting heavy pipe into place and firing the joints with the ceremonial torch conjures the blessings of the plumbing gods May those gods bless you forever!
You are THE MAN Bob- I am working on my 1960 home- all cast sewer pipes- slowly working my way to replacing the Cast with ABS
I have much respect for you Bob. You’re a very talented plumber and just a nice guy. I’m a licensed plumber in North Carolina and really appreciate your videos. Stay well sir.
I'm not in the plumbing field but I enjoy learning repair methods from you. I figure if I ever encounter something like this in my life, it's better to know what I'm looking at than be completely clueless. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing!
My name i Jeff learned the craft in Brooklyn NY. I’ve been in the craft 36 years now this man hear is an lost art. I started in Bell And Spigot XH pour and packed joints for the NYCHA for 10 years until the craft transition into push gaskets. You right these new school guys have no idea why it’s like to pour and pack 2”-10” joints. Horizontal and Vertical. They don’t have no idea on the experiences it takes to even pack, pour, and chaulk lead joints. I miss those days. Great vid brings back memories when I used to run a jobbing van in Manhattan. Great video
Wonder how I stuck it out so long, it was so difficult back in the day. The lead, oakum, pots of solder, and the sheer weight of XH Cast Iron, it was torcher...😂👍😂
Exactly 😀😀😀
thank you so much. just discovered this very problem on a 1910 home in Oakland Can't even imagine finding an expert like you to repair it.
Thank You so much 👍. Bob
Outstanding solder wiping job Bob.
Hi Bob! I just replaced a toilet with a leaking flange. The house is from 1949. When I removed the toilet (had to cut the bolts) - I was horrified to see that the original bronze flange had not only come unsoldered from the lead down-tube - but the mounting bolts had been spinning in the flange! I ended up doing a basic solder and reseal and adding a NEW repair plate (made by Oatey) to the TOP of the old bronze flange. I had to literally SOLDER the two bolts to the repair flange first. Then, I screwed the repair flange down on top of the old bronze flange. To make things 'watertight' I installed a 'Fluidmaster Better Than Wax Toilet Seal' into the old flange before installing a new toilet. It is (as you know) VERY important to make sure that the final flange assembly is JUST high enough to make a proper seal with the toilet. So far - all's well. Just a tip (I know I don't need to tell you this!) - press a plastic bag filled with rags down into the down-pipe while the rest of the work is being done - it's NOT nice to lose tools and other 'stuff' into the drain!! Just don't forget to remove it before reinstalling the toilet! Cheers from Toronto!
Cheers 👍
Very nice work Bob, thanks for sharing your expertise. 👍👍
Great job, you explain everything very thorough. Thanks for making them.
The three houses I've owned were all copper and PVC or ABS, but I love seeing the old cast iron (even though I'm glad I never have to repair it) and I appreciate any vids you have working with it.
I'm from Boston. I've done it on water mains and vertical branches to sinks. It's called a cup joint. I still keep a Presto-lite around for this. Plus it comes in handy when working in these old tinderboxes.
wow never thought about soldering lead pipe and the possibility of melting the lead pipe! great job
Excellent video!
This was an amazing video Bob. Total blast from the past. The fact that you had to peen the lead bend & solder this flange is crazy! Great work 💪💯😁
Much , much appreciated!👍
Great job of explaining the process.
Glad it was helpful!
Nice repair
Nice old school work!!
another great show!!
I still come across these from time to time in Massachusetts and can't imagine how hard the trade was 50 years ago. PVC=Longer life expectancy for plumbers. Great Video and explanation.
Check out this one! Regards, Bob.ruclips.net/video/JqWyz2FdubI/видео.html
Man that’s a lot of experience you have! Thanks so much for sharing this! I’m new here. I have cast with a little lead in my house in the Tacoma, WA area.
BITD, i worked with those old-timers that use to caulk joints all-day, they had tells on their thumb/wrist from missin the irons with the hammer...one ole timer lost a eye to rain drop hittin the lead pot...txs for sharing
Nice soldering job!
Beautiful job (and ethics)!
Thank you! Cheers!
Fascinating. Great video!
Many thanks!
Great explanation. Thanks.
You're welcome!
great video bob!
Great Job!
This video might have just saved my bacon. Will update comment when I'm done
Edit: it did in fact save my bacon, thank you so much for the video!
Nice work boss.
Appreciated
Great Video. I'm redoing my bathroom floor and thought I had a deeper cast iron flange and a cast iron pipe. Turns out I had just what you showed here. Mine just goes straight down and is not a bend. Hoping to use the repair flange In your "Solder No move Video" to get mine fixed.
Today Bob they put a Franco clamp 3 inch PVC😅 I remember the days my uncle taught me to wipe the joint 1970 plumbers were plumbers😊 you're a baby boomer like me😅
Like B.B. King said, "The Skill is Gone"! Oh excuse. me he actually said 'Thrill", but as you say the Skill is GONE!
Thanks for sharing your many years of experience, I know the old feeling, and I wish when I was younger I pursued one trade instead of many
Thanks for sharing!
Old school skills still come into play sometimes
Wow, glad I found your video! My house (built in the 50's) has one of these and joint with the flange leaked. I didn't realize the pipe was lead, and managed to overheat it while soldering and melted the top of the pipe :-( Now I'm going to try your solder dripping technique to fix it. Wish me luck! :-)
Very cool!
Incredible solder job,it an art ,a nack ,a lot of plumbers could solder it but not good
Thanks for describing how you wipe the solder.
Any time!
I always like to learn from your videos. I would have been stomped because I'm not a professional like you. I used to have a few apartments and tried to do as much as I could on my own. That led stuff or lead Bend is something I never had to mess with or never had a plumber do any of that on the messes that I had to deal with. I'm curious to know roughly what a plumber would charge for the work that you went through there. It probably took you three hours plus or minus.
Thank you for posting the video. About how should I expect to pay today (June 2022) in Brooklyn, NY for this repair - remove toilet, replace lead bend, reset toilet? Thank you!
Hey Bob , great video. I ran into what I think is a lead bend during a diy bathroom Reno. I’m totally at a loss on what do.
You may want to check this video out..ruclips.net/video/MfOWguOL8rs/видео.html
That bathroom is to die for....
Nice!
Thank you! Cheers!
Pvc abs pex pipe how much lighter can it get , good video sir
I’m a young whipper snapper here lol but my goodness lead bends and cast iron flanges sealed with oakum and lead is probably my least favorite thing to work on. Had a call today for a leaking flushometer I could literally swing the toilet back and forth only had one bolt after removing the toilet almost half of the flange (cast iron) was deteriorated and the good side had half of a Harvey repair ring screwed down to hold the closet bolt. Some people have such good luck with half ass repairs if I did that it would never work lol!
Much respect to you, Sir! This video inspired me to step up my brass closet flange installs and repairs. I have to ask you - how do you use the bending iron? Where do you get your wiping clothes from or do you make your own with a rag and wax? What would be your reason and method to have a wax candle ready when wiping the flange to the lead bend? Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge!
Jason, the bending pin i've had for as long as I can remember and don't know if they even make them? I use it to peen the lead into the brass flange to prevent the solder from seeping past the flange when I'm applying the heat. As far as wiping clothes, impossible to find decent ones any longer (lost art) , if you can find some old mattress material you'd be better off making your own. I use the candle to cool things down when the heat gets too high. I also melt the wax into the wiping cloth to keep the solder from sticking to it. For me it's no big deal to make repairs this way, but no one is doing it this way any longer.
Hi Bob! Great videos! I have a question about my radiator, the air valve keeps spewing out dirty/rusty water, I haven't touched the service valve (watched your video on radiator spitting water & checked that service valve is all the way open), How do I make it stop randomly spewing dirty water?
It’s quite possible it’s just a bad air vent, to be absolutely certain you might consider calling in a pro to investigate.
were these lead bends still used in new construction in the early/mid 1990's? I have a slab-on-grade foundation and seem to have this soft metal bend for a toilet drain pipe. Not sure why, b/c everything else is PVC. Anyway, the flange has broken off, so I'm not sure if this is a DIY or not to replace. I've seen the Twist-N-set flange from Oatey, but not sure if it'll work with this soft metal. Any suggestions, sir?
They're still produced today, and I will use them if the job calls for it. This is not a D.I.Y. project in my opinion, but the Oatey twist and set will work. bit.ly/3gZLfMZ
Great video but i have a long sweep lead bend with flange that is too high for new tile floor. I orignally thougt it was CI and was going to removed the lead around flange and cut down CI pipe but it is a lead long sweep w flange. Its look like. Do you know if i can cut this down and obviously removing the flange part of the lead bend and will i find something to attach to lead pipe 4” or do i have to melt solder like you did?
You can unsolder it or if you have an internal pipe cutter, cut it jus below the flange. WATCH THIS FIRST! ruclips.net/video/MfOWguOL8rs/видео.html
Nice lesson. Being an apartment dweller. This job isn’t mine.
Great job. You definitely won’t find these in Phoenix, Arizona where I live lol.
Old school Profesional
Great video. I have a question, if you don’t mind. I just lifted an old toilet and found a lead bend flange. The flange and the brass ring are both in good shape so I can reuse as is. However, just like in the video, the flange was sealed all around with a big mess of plaster. Why was that done - and do I need to replicate it when I install the new toilet? Thanks.
Some guys would slip the flange over the lead a peen it over onto the flange and set the bowl with wax and plaster. I always solder them on, if you have no experience with this, the next best option is to use one of these bit.ly/2RnFIFi. Pace it inside the lead bend and tighten the set screws. If you can and screw the flange to the subfloor even better. That link is for the 4" version, but you can get them in 3" as well. Regards, Bob.
I just bought my house and this is my exact setup it’s going to be a nightmare but I have no choice I’m to deep in
Thoughts on diy'ing something like this vs using something like peening the lead into the flange and using a product like plastic seal to seal it?
As long as you can securely the flange to the floor, it is a D.Y.I alternative. You might want to check these two alternatives ruclips.net/video/MfOWguOL8rs/видео.html
Bob, Great job on the lead bend flange install. I need your advice. I would like to anchor a flange to the floor but tapcons split the concrete, no evidence of viable wood subfloor. How about a molly bolt or a snap toggle bolt. Lead bend is in good shape. The tenant is a heavyweight disabled. Puts extreme side pressure on the toilet. Thanks, Ed. W.
If you have viable concrete below, I would use lead anchor plugs 1/4" or 5/16" and screw it down with stainless steel or galvanized screws. screws.www.mscdirect.com/product/details/68000884
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Concrete is too close to the edge, breaking up. Tried snap toggle, gave me a larger bite, seems to be holding fast. Although not stainless, coated with silicone. Should be ok, Thanks for the quick reply.
Ed. W.
Hey Bob I got a question for you, I need to repair a second floor flange and the swap out kitchen sink-in upper floor apartment Jamaica Ave and with a beauty salon on the first floor, the repair is not the problem, the place is infested with roaches, I hate them, after I have the tennent remove the years of accumulated crap, what do you recommend I use before crawling on my back under that disaster??
Take a look at these! ruclips.net/video/MfOWguOL8rs/видео.html
I would of remove the lead bend, drilled out lead joint, pushed in no hub donut. And installed PVC
Last longer. 👍
Great point!
Is there a way to go from lead bend to plastic toilet. Perhaps a insert type expanding flange. As a diy I don't see i would be successful soldering.
This should fit inside a 4" lead bend, it must be secured to the floor. I believe it's available in 3" also. bit.ly/3kTv6ZQ
Didn't know you can still buy a lead bend, how much they cost? Can I buy one online? I was taught by an old timer he always told me stories about making lead bends and lead traps and wiping lead. Thanks for posting these types of vids .new sub here.
Yes you can! They're expensive as hell today, depending on size. Example a 4" X 8" wiped X 12" bend runs approximately $110.00 / $125.00. Check this link......www.mrsupply.com/mayco-lead-product-lead-bend-4812wlb.html
Anybody who made a living working on lead and cast iron pipe has my respect and condolences! God, I hate it so much!
Well done.
Thank You!
How can I get my hands on the bending tool you used and the wiping cloth, candle thing. I’m in the NYC area
Good luck! that bending pin belonged to my father and have no clue other than maybe searching on e-bay ! Thanks for commenting! Bob.
I also was handed down my fathers lead wipe tools have a few sets somewhere He started his apprenticeship right after WWII. Washburne Trade school chicago plumbers Local 130 UA 72 yr member (last 29 yrs retired ) RIP I worked with him on side jobs since age 5 started my apprenticeship with Local 130 in 88. 33 yrs still working I have done a few lead services repairs wipe joints before it was banned in 86. We now use Ford packs on lead services. I’ve done tons of cast iron installations and repairs and yes XH CI is a pain in the butt than SV CI. I have seen only 6 lead bends in my lifetime including a complete leaded waste bathroom in Evanston near Northwestern University in 84 as a laborer for a jobbing shop. The closest bend , drum trap , lead waste pipe for lav all tied into side inlet of closet bend before going into the old CI. You remind me of my father when he was teaching me plumbing as a kid explaining why and how. And growing up learning the second strictest plumbing code only behind NYC. Bob PM me for more info
How do you tin a brass flange ?
Buff the flange with a scotch bright pad or sandpaper, apply flux and heat with a torch. Using a 60/40 bar solder or 50/50 spool solder apply to the hot brass flange and wipe off the excess (while it's still in a liquid form) with a piece of rag.
Why did you add caulk to the bottom of the toilet?
Most floors are not prefect and I ultimately end up using plastic shims to steady the bowl. Then I trim them and recess them. The caulk make a nice finished look. But I caulk all my toilet installs, even if the bowl sits perfect. I think it looks clean.
Can I just clean up the pipe, get it level with the finished floor then put in a twist and set flange?
Yes, but I personally would use the version with the three allen head screws to tighten the flange and then screw it down to the floor.ruclips.net/video/MfOWguOL8rs/видео.html
@@BobsPlumbingVideos Yes. Good call. Thanks a million!
The house I live in these days had a leak coming down in below.
Believe it or not the Union on the radiator above that ceiling was leaking and I didn't think it was coming from that which makes me crazy. The plumber came because I work driving a truck over the road and he took about 2 hours bashing holes in two different places that I have to repair and he charged $500. I know if you ask for good money then you'll get good money and if you ask for a reasonable fee then you'll get a reasonable fee. I always felt that I should charge a little less for the people in the apartments I had. I guess it was my loss to not go crazy charging. I still think $500 for 2 hours was taking advantage of the homeowners and ultimately myself. I'm just curious what you think of that amount charged
Steam radiator i forgot to say
It ultimately all depends on the scope of the work and skill of the tradesperson. That being said, 2 hours here in N.Y.C. depending on what company you call will set you back minimally $700 / $800 and beyond.
So I guess I shouldn't feel real bad paying $500 for 2 hours. What they mainly did with smashed two holes in the sheetrock and I guess it took whatever time it took. It just sounds High for what they did. Thanks for the reply Bob. We're somewhere around the same age you and me. You're probably 5 years older than me. I'm 63 in a few weeks. Thanks again
@@williampeters6004 Reached the BIG 70 in November! Regards, Bob.
You don't have to secure the flange to the floor with cast or lead?
It depends on the situation, when I can I secure it with anchors and screws. Doesn’t always work out the way you would like. The floor was pretty level both directions, and the bowl sat really well.
You don't have to screw the flange to the floor?
If I have something solid to screw in to (rare in older homes), once the water based silicone dries the bowl won't move.
I would’ve like to see footage of you actually doing the work. Oh you just didn’t want to share your technique. I get it. You gotta pass on the knowledge to us younger plumbers. Great job though. It came out great.
Next one I come across, I'll film it! Thanks, Bob.
The old work took skills and craftsmen with skills. Craftsmanship is dying in this plastic, snap together world today.
"The Skill is Gone" Sad!
@@BobsPlumbingVideos nope. There's a few guys who still teaches to the younger generation how to do it. There's a lot of buildings in NYC that you have to solder a side inlet to the lead bend.
With a copper female adapter?
@@crazendisturbed that’s fascinating. Would love to learn more. Here in Toronto we tend to rip it all out and repipe in plastic. A section of tubular brass hammered inside the lead waste from the sink drain is enough to stiffen it for a rubber coupling and it’s good to go
Your lucky it got easier as you gotten older
How much does this cost?
Via the pressure control on the boiler.
I got cast iron waste pipe with a lead bend and can't get a plumber to touch it it's insane I got no toilet lol
Nice job but jesus where does one find those ancient tools lol
Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment! LOL!!
@@BobsPlumbingVideos it was meant as one fore sure. Very clean joint. I actually just ran accross this in the field and have only done new joints with bi. Having a wc flange sheer off with no room to replace the 90 is a new situation for me. Hence finding your great video.
This is my problem and I don’t know what I’m doing 😭
Bob, why didn't you get rid of that? Too much trouble, PVC all the way.
Nice job Bob, but such a wasted opportunity to teach the younger plumbers here how all the old lead work is/was done. I am one of those who came into the trade too late to learn the fine points of lead work (1989 - 1994 apprenticeship) so our only lead project's was to caulk a 4" CI joint on a bench and a deep CI floor flange (lead and oakum) to a CI No HUB pipe. Other than that, I only learned what you have "pictured and described" here by working with the older retiring gents as all lead work was being phased out and PVC and HO NUB CI was taking over. Had you set up a small tripod camera to film your actual skill and talent in this lead repair job (cleaning, peaning, forming, candle usage, dribbling solder, wiping rag), the art could of been passed on to us younger's. Maybe you can find time to film this LOST ART in your shop for the thousands of us younger plumbers that still have to try to make these lead repairs for the next 50 to 100 years
Supply hose? New York City?? Great soldering job though. Nobody does that. You should be proud. But hose?
A thankless job, no one could care less about the skill required to do this. As far as the supply go's, I hate them but it was roughed in to close and I bit the bullet and used it. Another invention that took the skill out of the trade.
@@BobsPlumbingVideos You sound a like like me... I guess after all the grief and years we all settle down about the same...
It’s 2023. How dare you assume that the previous plumber that soldered the lead bend was a man. What If he identified as an electrician?
😂😂😂😂 God knows you are CORRECT!
Why do you just do a video, this is not helpful
Because it's pisses people off! Check out Steve Lavinmonier 's channel, he may be more your type of guy!