I'm convinced that the reason why many top level drivers are still using triples is just inertia. They've already had their triples for years before VR was a thing. It's what they've trained on and what they're used to. They've had success with triples and continue to have success, so not going to change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But VR is just plain better, and the gap widens over time as VR technology improves. Never mentioned in the video is that the most fundamental advantage of VR is depth perception. You have no depth perception whatsoever with flat screens. This means that the way you sense your position is different with triples than it is in RL. You can still be fast, but the way your sight position is a different mechanism, and it's more reliant on track side references. I also race in RL, so VR is key to using simracing as practice for RL because the way your sight your position is the same as RL. Also regarding the mention of the comfort and weight of VR headsets, in RL you're wearing a helmet which is pretty similar. I don't find the argument of favoring triples due to comfort for long hours to be compelling. Speed > comfort. But also as mentioned, some of the fastest drivers are not using advanced gear at all. I myself just used basic Logitech wheel and pedals for many years and won championships over guys with very exotic gear. It's whatever works for you. But the better gear is still better and helps. I finally got a direct drive wheel setup recently, and it's nice! Can be fast without it, but it takes less practice to be fast with it. Same thing with VR.
The other thing is, the amount of time they spend in the seat. They are spending hours a day practicing and hours at a time racing. VR is just much more fatiguing there.
@@ShawnHinckless comfortable for long hours, especially in Summer, sure; more tiring? Surprisingly not so much, for some. I'm one of those. I've driven up to 4h no problem in VR. I've raced 3h back to back in VR. I usually prefer a break, because I'm sweating and probably almost died a few times in the race, but I can hop back in quite quickly. I've heard others may have a different experience.
Agree fully. After switching to VR..it became less about winning, and more about the feeling of being in a race car and racing door to door with someone else. It changed me.
I was a single monitor guy for my first 5 years of sim racing. Made the switch to VR about 6 months ago. I will not be going back to monitors. For me VR is the way to go for sim racing. I went backwards statistically for a few weeks. After a month I was back to where I had seemed to plateau with the monitor. Now 6 months in I am at the highest level statistically that I have ever been and feel like I have not hit the wall where I can advance no further I am more consistent. Not really faster. Way less incidents that would end races on the monitor. Overall having a great VR experience. Thanks for sharing this video.
I can't race on screens anymore. Even on something like a Rift S or Quest 2 it's better than screens. The Pimax stuff is awesome for Simracing too. As is the quest 3. That level of immersion just makes it a totally different experience.
The sense of scale and the ability to look through the corner makes me so much faster and i find it a lot easier to drive fast as well. And it's more immersive and fun!
I started using VR about a month ago and I can't imagine going back to three monitors. I have pimax 8kx, rtx 3090ti and i7 13700f. I know that this is not an ideal set for 8kx and I have to take into account that the image quality will be reduced to make it smooth enough. Can you recommend a video on how to set 8kx step by step to enjoy the best possible results with good image quality? I will add that I am a typical newbie when it comes to PC and VR.
Agree that VR doesn't necessarily make you faster over 1 lap, but over a race you will be more consistent. Racing with others around you is different to hot lapping, and VR helps keep track of others, relative to your position and the different lines into corners. Once I switched...I couldn't go back. Be warned ☺
Thanks for this. Finally made a decision after quite a bit of reading and adding/removing things from various shopping carts. 🙃 VR it is. I'm on a budget tho so probably going with a quest 2 (unless someone out there wants to talk me out of that)
Something that’s massively underrated in the sim community with regarding screens is trackir so that you can look around like you can in VR. I’ve tried VR, I don’t hate it, but it’s also not as clear at distance like it is with my monitors, but I’m also some nobody.
Comfort is top of list, weight and inertial mass hanging far out in front of you head are non starters when you have to move your head around a lot. I use bigger (better) headsets for room scale games etc particularly wireless for that setting but for sim racing I’ve only been able to use the Bigscreen Beyond due to it’s incredibly small size, light weight, and minimal inertial tendency. There are some big compromises with the beyond but in sim racing specifically the aforementioned issues beat out all the other compromises versus staying on screens. I would pay $2k for a headset with micro-oled, pancake lenses, a large fov, and a mass and size not more than double the current beyond. I would go a bit larger and heavier than the current beyond to address the worst of the current compromises on the beyond (very small sweet spot, horrible glare, small fov) but again for sim racing specifically I’ll take all those issues versus 600-800g hanging 100mm off of my head! Otherwise I’m using screens. But I am currently using my beyond 100% of the time now for racing even with the compromises it beats every other option I currently have.
I was surprised noone mentioned streaming as a reason top players don't use it. I think a lot of top drivers stream and it's still pretty wonky to stream using VR, it probably always will be.
VR is a little less convenient. You need a beast machine, tinker to setup, set it up to handle a full grid with decent fps, and comfort both for your eyes and your face/head. Cable or wireless? Battery pack(s)? Triples give you enough to gauge your surroundings plus a virtual spotter like crew chief. Triples are stable and convenient. Also require a beast machine for all that resolution you run across 3 monitors.
A 4090 allows a HP Reverb G2 to run iRacing on Win10 with no tweaking necessary to the in game recommended graphics settings. Win11 is a stuttering mess however.
oh whats about the crystal fov is low and you can supersampling the old rift and it will look really good, what is make pimax before beter then others it was FOV
"it doesn't make you faster just more consistent" is the most nonsense thing to reach popular opinion for sim racing in the last years imo. if you do one lap 5 tenths faster, the next one 1 second slower, and then another lap 5 tenths slower, you'll always be slower overall than doing the same laptimes every lap. in which format in racing does being consistent not always faster? hot lapping perhaps? in almost all racing formats, being consistent is almost always faster
You're missing the point. And yes, hot lapping is a good example of that very common opinion. If you and another racer are both using belt driven wheels, and they are 2 seconds faster per lap on average. Then you get a DD wheel it will not just magically make up those 2 seconds for you. It still comes down to each individual's skill, comfortability, and preferences. And of course, being more consistent on a long run will be faster overall, that's common sense. However, that is not the point trying to be made. The point is the equipment does not determine the racers pace and skill level.
@@Edmundson nobody said that it determined skill level. I said consistency is faster. Additionally, the info a DD provides regarding the limit of grip for eg allows one to much more easily find lap time without spinning out
I think what he's trying to say is that at the end of the day, it is possible to be just as fast without a fancier steering wheel or without VR or whatever. But better equipment can make it easier to be consistently fast. Because, for instance, a DD lets you feel what's going on at the limits of grip better. But even without a DD, the driver could still sense what's going on and make the same control inputs to correct it anyway. This is harder to do with more limited senses to work with, but still possible with enough practice. It's possible to produce exactly the same lap times over the course of a race. So from that perspective, the equipment won't ultimately make you faster. More it just reduces the amount of practice needed to become fast. That said, I don't completely believe this myself. I think there's a lot of truth to it. But to say that better equipment ultimately has no effect on pace at all and it's 100% about the racer's skill alone is just a little too far.
@@SargonDragon agree. another additional factor to consider is the changing track conditions. the grip level will change over the course of the race, so not having the detailed information will mean the amount of practice won't matter as much, if indeed the practice was without the detail, when the limits of grip is evolving
@@17peteclarke Another factor in the argument is understanding the car's position and attitude, relative to the track. Understanding what your car is doing on track is key to learning and adapting faster, cutting down the time spent chasing those tenths before you can aim to gain consistency. Hands down VR is the best tool for this (especially when combined with other driver aids like haptics and DD etc).
I'm convinced that the reason why many top level drivers are still using triples is just inertia. They've already had their triples for years before VR was a thing. It's what they've trained on and what they're used to. They've had success with triples and continue to have success, so not going to change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But VR is just plain better, and the gap widens over time as VR technology improves.
Never mentioned in the video is that the most fundamental advantage of VR is depth perception. You have no depth perception whatsoever with flat screens. This means that the way you sense your position is different with triples than it is in RL. You can still be fast, but the way your sight position is a different mechanism, and it's more reliant on track side references. I also race in RL, so VR is key to using simracing as practice for RL because the way your sight your position is the same as RL.
Also regarding the mention of the comfort and weight of VR headsets, in RL you're wearing a helmet which is pretty similar. I don't find the argument of favoring triples due to comfort for long hours to be compelling. Speed > comfort.
But also as mentioned, some of the fastest drivers are not using advanced gear at all. I myself just used basic Logitech wheel and pedals for many years and won championships over guys with very exotic gear. It's whatever works for you. But the better gear is still better and helps. I finally got a direct drive wheel setup recently, and it's nice! Can be fast without it, but it takes less practice to be fast with it. Same thing with VR.
Yeah, great point on the depth perception. That is something I typically mention when discussing VR vs screens.
The other thing is, the amount of time they spend in the seat. They are spending hours a day practicing and hours at a time racing. VR is just much more fatiguing there.
@@ShawnHinckless comfortable for long hours, especially in Summer, sure; more tiring? Surprisingly not so much, for some.
I'm one of those. I've driven up to 4h no problem in VR. I've raced 3h back to back in VR. I usually prefer a break, because I'm sweating and probably almost died a few times in the race, but I can hop back in quite quickly.
I've heard others may have a different experience.
For many it's about realism and VR feels a lot more real than 2d monitors
Agree fully. After switching to VR..it became less about winning, and more about the feeling of being in a race car and racing door to door with someone else. It changed me.
I was a single monitor guy for my first 5 years of sim racing.
Made the switch to VR about 6 months ago. I will not be going back to monitors. For me VR is the way to go for sim racing.
I went backwards statistically for a few weeks. After a month I was back to where I had seemed to plateau with the monitor.
Now 6 months in I am at the highest level statistically that I have ever been and feel like I have not hit the wall where I can advance no further
I am more consistent. Not really faster. Way less incidents that would end races on the monitor. Overall having a great VR experience.
Thanks for sharing this video.
VR, when it works properly and you get used to it, is incredible. And it will get better & better.
I can't race on screens anymore. Even on something like a Rift S or Quest 2 it's better than screens. The Pimax stuff is awesome for Simracing too. As is the quest 3. That level of immersion just makes it a totally different experience.
Thanks for having me along Jaap, lets get these headsets into more simmers hands!!
Great interviews! I'm a VR racer myself and honestly I'm so excited for the future. What a time to be a VR sim racer!
The sense of scale and the ability to look through the corner makes me so much faster and i find it a lot easier to drive fast as well. And it's more immersive and fun!
I started using VR about a month ago and I can't imagine going back to three monitors. I have pimax 8kx, rtx 3090ti and i7 13700f. I know that this is not an ideal set for 8kx and I have to take into account that the image quality will be reduced to make it smooth enough. Can you recommend a video on how to set 8kx step by step to enjoy the best possible results with good image quality? I will add that I am a typical newbie when it comes to PC and VR.
Agree that VR doesn't necessarily make you faster over 1 lap, but over a race you will be more consistent. Racing with others around you is different to hot lapping, and VR helps keep track of others, relative to your position and the different lines into corners. Once I switched...I couldn't go back. Be warned ☺
Thanks for this. Finally made a decision after quite a bit of reading and adding/removing things from various shopping carts. 🙃 VR it is. I'm on a budget tho so probably going with a quest 2 (unless someone out there wants to talk me out of that)
Something that’s massively underrated in the sim community with regarding screens is trackir so that you can look around like you can in VR. I’ve tried VR, I don’t hate it, but it’s also not as clear at distance like it is with my monitors, but I’m also some nobody.
Comfort is top of list, weight and inertial mass hanging far out in front of you head are non starters when you have to move your head around a lot. I use bigger (better) headsets for room scale games etc particularly wireless for that setting but for sim racing I’ve only been able to use the Bigscreen Beyond due to it’s incredibly small size, light weight, and minimal inertial tendency. There are some big compromises with the beyond but in sim racing specifically the aforementioned issues beat out all the other compromises versus staying on screens. I would pay $2k for a headset with micro-oled, pancake lenses, a large fov, and a mass and size not more than double the current beyond. I would go a bit larger and heavier than the current beyond to address the worst of the current compromises on the beyond (very small sweet spot, horrible glare, small fov) but again for sim racing specifically I’ll take all those issues versus 600-800g hanging 100mm off of my head! Otherwise I’m using screens. But I am currently using my beyond 100% of the time now for racing even with the compromises it beats every other option I currently have.
VR done well is the future
I've got both tripples & Vr, without a doubt Vr is better also I'm i a bit faster & way more fun, if only it wasn't so hot under there!
I have a Quest 3 and it is not hot at all.
I was surprised noone mentioned streaming as a reason top players don't use it. I think a lot of top drivers stream and it's still pretty wonky to stream using VR, it probably always will be.
VR is a little less convenient. You need a beast machine, tinker to setup, set it up to handle a full grid with decent fps, and comfort both for your eyes and your face/head. Cable or wireless? Battery pack(s)? Triples give you enough to gauge your surroundings plus a virtual spotter like crew chief. Triples are stable and convenient. Also require a beast machine for all that resolution you run across 3 monitors.
A 4090 allows a HP Reverb G2 to run iRacing on Win10 with no tweaking necessary to the in game recommended graphics settings. Win11 is a stuttering mess however.
Is the 12k coming out anytime soon??
oh whats about the crystal fov is low and you can supersampling the old rift and it will look really good, what is make pimax before beter then others it was FOV
PIMAX make a smaller PCVR HEADSET please for god sakes
"it doesn't make you faster just more consistent" is the most nonsense thing to reach popular opinion for sim racing in the last years imo. if you do one lap 5 tenths faster, the next one 1 second slower, and then another lap 5 tenths slower, you'll always be slower overall than doing the same laptimes every lap. in which format in racing does being consistent not always faster? hot lapping perhaps? in almost all racing formats, being consistent is almost always faster
You're missing the point. And yes, hot lapping is a good example of that very common opinion. If you and another racer are both using belt driven wheels, and they are 2 seconds faster per lap on average. Then you get a DD wheel it will not just magically make up those 2 seconds for you. It still comes down to each individual's skill, comfortability, and preferences. And of course, being more consistent on a long run will be faster overall, that's common sense. However, that is not the point trying to be made. The point is the equipment does not determine the racers pace and skill level.
@@Edmundson nobody said that it determined skill level. I said consistency is faster. Additionally, the info a DD provides regarding the limit of grip for eg allows one to much more easily find lap time without spinning out
I think what he's trying to say is that at the end of the day, it is possible to be just as fast without a fancier steering wheel or without VR or whatever. But better equipment can make it easier to be consistently fast. Because, for instance, a DD lets you feel what's going on at the limits of grip better. But even without a DD, the driver could still sense what's going on and make the same control inputs to correct it anyway. This is harder to do with more limited senses to work with, but still possible with enough practice. It's possible to produce exactly the same lap times over the course of a race.
So from that perspective, the equipment won't ultimately make you faster. More it just reduces the amount of practice needed to become fast.
That said, I don't completely believe this myself. I think there's a lot of truth to it. But to say that better equipment ultimately has no effect on pace at all and it's 100% about the racer's skill alone is just a little too far.
@@SargonDragon agree. another additional factor to consider is the changing track conditions. the grip level will change over the course of the race, so not having the detailed information will mean the amount of practice won't matter as much, if indeed the practice was without the detail, when the limits of grip is evolving
@@17peteclarke Another factor in the argument is understanding the car's position and attitude, relative to the track. Understanding what your car is doing on track is key to learning and adapting faster, cutting down the time spent chasing those tenths before you can aim to gain consistency. Hands down VR is the best tool for this (especially when combined with other driver aids like haptics and DD etc).