Given the unforeseen extension of the astronauts' mission, how should mission planners re-evaluate life support systems and resource management for potential future long-term space travel?
How many Humans would it take to manually operate a Dyson Swarm that has primitive automated systems ? & do you think Stellar Husbandry & Stellar Engineering would be a more logical progression instead of draining our Star's Energy via a Dyson energy extraction method ?
Boeing, NASA and SpaceX need to at least get together and set standards for things like space suit tech. I read "it's good there are different suits so we can find out what works best." Well, but it's also a problem now. So how about we just give it a lot more thought and research down here, agree on one standard and go with that. Then we wouldn't have even more problems, with incompatible space suits.
They got stuck because the US government and NASA allowed Boeing to use their equipment in order to save the company from bankruptcy due to the failing airline. This was a government bailout to a company in order to save it using taxpayer money without the taxpayers realising it. Is there any Boeing whistleblowers that are still alive? They all committed suicide or died in improbable ways.
The issue isn't the astonauts having their stay extended on the ISS. The issue is the severe neglect by Boeing when it came to the craft and them actively arguing with engineers advising them about problems with the craft. This has been a history with Boeing not just with the spaceflight program, but also their aircraft. They constantly put people at risk due to them cutting corners and ignoring issues because profit. The astronauts were put at risk because Boeing did not do due diligence and address issues as they cropped up because they deemed that it wasn't important enough. Boeings neglect has cost mission delays as well and has gone over budget, being a liability to multiple organizations. THAT is the issue.
No, the issue is that you want to roast Boeing and you do not know how to read. The title of the video is: concerning the stranded astronauts. Learn to read
@@gwendyp125the video makes the point that the astronauts are fine. People being critical of the company that caused this problem, assuming these things are true, is understandable. The video said mistakes are part of the process, sure, but if they're ignoring safety protocols and known science that's not ok.
@@cutecats532 Yeah, I'm fine with putting the blame on Boeing on matters technical or regarding safety. The company is basically a joke of the least funny type. The video though was really just about those astronauts and what are facing due to that failure
@@benwu7980 I agree the astornauts are fine, I just don't care for Tyson excusing the failure on Beoings part using the Apollo program as an example and just going "Oh, it's the cost of exploration". Unexpected failures sure, I can get. Boeing knowing about these failures and choosing to go ahead anyways, not so much. That is negligence.
On April 13th, 1970, I was watching the movie Marooned with my brother, which was being played on TV . Walter Cronkite came on TV and interrupted the program to say that the men in Apollo 13 were in trouble. How surreal is that!
I started working at NASA this year on June 3rd and on June 6th I just so happened to be getting a tour around the site and stopped by building#30, minutes before this spacecraft launched and was invited to watch the launch from mission control . Coolest thing I’ve ever witnessed . Hope the Starliner crew gets home safe🙏🏾
Time to play Harry Nilsson's 1972 song (I wanna be a ) 'Spaceman' . Lyrics match this stranded scenario ! @neildegrassetson music.ruclips.net/video/-yK5vUFBshM/видео.html&si=nNtMa0BHttxCvIdB
Stranded is hyperbole, but I can't help but feel like Neil is minimizing Boeing's incompetence here. Imagine not uploading the undocking software among other safety procedures that should have been applied prior to launch.
"Stranded" not hyperbole. It is the word, with "stuck" as well, the media uses for the exact analog for passengers in Timbuktu, for example, when their jet has become unsafe and they are "stranded" in the airport. Butch and Sunni are even more so stranded, inasmuch as stranded passengers in most cases will shortly be able to safely leave in an alternative jet or airline. Or a ship for the matter.
I agree kagazuki. Also, he's saying ISS is not too cramped to be stuck in for 6 months, and minimized that as well. Would he think it's acceptable to sign up for a work assignment, and end up living with other people in a space that small, as opposed to his current home with his family?
Neil, this is the third test of Starliner and the first crewed test. Their second test managed to dock with ISS for the first time, and during that test they found a problem with their thrusters. For some reason, they proceed with the crewed flight test without finding the root cause of the thruster issue found on the previous test, and here we are.
@markvietti i disagree, what is he selling space? I'll buy with my time cuz i aint got money to spend 😂 . That said, ive only listen to his space talk stuff nothing else. But what he saying here seems reasonable. What in particular did you have a problem with besides the presenter?
too busy talking about what color trumps underwear was today and how many times biden stuttered. no one cares about what matters anymore. the news used to be about the news. now it’s just garbage.
@@widescreennavel My observation is an acknowledgement of the genuine chaos in every corner of the world, such that a story as ... out of this world as this one isn't headline-grabbing. I maintain this view, Neil's commentary notwithstanding
My good friend's uncle is Butch Wilmore. As a space nerd, I enjoy talking to her (my friend) about Butch and his journey. Well, he's LOVING IT!!! It's his last flight ever, and he gets to enjoy space, do science experiments that he was never supposed to perform, and add more time logged to his career, which matters to astronauts apparently. However, his wife and family are not too happy about it. They're happy for his career, but they want their dad and husband back. They've been dealing with this one flight for years, from training, to delay after delay. They're just upset it's not over and there's no guarantee February is the return date either. It's a lot of sacrifice for the family, with a lot of unknowns.
I'd totally be sharing his feelings! I'd be happy to stay up there longer and log more time (we pilots enjoy logging time too). I mean, I'd be a bit unsure about reentry in the Starliner, but staying in orbit longer wouldn't bother me one bit. One of my first thoughts when this issue started was that the two astronauts would probably be happy to remain on the ISS longer. Being a big space nerd as well, I can absolutely understand their feelings because it's highly unlikely I'll ever go to space for a second in my life. That said, the issue with this situation (debacle) is Boeing dropping the ball. They got the contract for being the golden child contractor of the government and now their equipment is failing not simply during development, testing, or unmanned stages, but during a crewed mission.
It's like being told by your boss that you need to stay for extended time at your favorite vacation spot. Condolences to the family, but I'd be loving it. 😂
The biggest downside is they're both basically eliminated from future Moon and Mars missions due to the prolonged radiation exposure tagged onto their existing life-time allowance. They're going to log an extra 5.75 months and that's basically 6 months worth of radiation that has to come off of your total time in space allowance. Even with the stations' shielding, a year on the ISS still exposes them to more radiation than experienced by residents of Japan who lived near the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accidents of 2011. They're both going to get roughly 150 millisieverts of radiation exposure and that's going to take them out of future mission consideration due to previous missions and their already accrued radiation amounts. On Earth, humans are exposed to 3 to 4 millisieverts (mSv) of radiation a year, mostly from natural sources like some kinds of rocks and the few cosmic rays that get through the atmosphere. On the International Space Station, astronauts get about 300 mSv per year. Until now, a 55-year-old male NASA astronaut was limited to an effective dose of 400 mSv over his career, while a 35-year-old female astronaut could only be exposed to 120 mSv. NASA is looking at raising the allowance level to 600 mSv for astronauts, and if they do so then perhaps Wilmore and Williams will be able to be put back on future Moon/Mars rosters. But right now, this is the end of both of their space faring.
That's true; however, the odds of them getting a Moon mission before they retire (they're not young) are slim. And they'll likely be dead of old age well before any NASA crew Mars mission.
@@robertmiller9735 Even a moon mission has fatal radiation risks if they get a bout of solar weather. One of the apollo missions barely missed a huge solar flare that would have been fatal if memory serves. I wonder how they plan to shield crew in the ship and on the ground. At least on the ground one would hope an early robotic mission or first crewed missions would make an underground shelter.
???? What ???? The "stranded" astronauts are test pilots for a new spaceship that's already too old... Sunni didn't even think she'd be able to go back to the ISS, but had an opportunity because she was a helicopter test pilot... Butch was basically Top Gun... The radiation question is a big unknown. Idk, imo..? Radiation in LEO is different than a trip to the moon/mars/venus, and might not be as big of a problem as microgravity, isolation, or lack of contingency plans for deep space missions
If I didn’t check that this is Neil channel, I would’ve thought this is Boeing PR Channel. Chris Ferguson might think, I was right. When he withdrawn from Starliner astronaut test team “It surrounds what has really amounted to a year that is replete with family obligations that I just do not want to risk missing.”
Doug Hurley, commander of SpaceX Crew Dragon Demo-2: “That summer NASA was closing in on making crew assignments for the first flights. Hurley told the chief of the astronaut office he would not fly on Starliner.” As: “There was an arrogance with them that you certainly didn’t see at SpaceX.” “Boeing also underperformed. Not only were its engineers overconfident, but the company’s management also was not putting skin in the game. Hurley did not see any urgency from Boeing’s teams. Rather, they appeared to be working part-time on Starliner. ‘It was all about managing dollars and cents from Boeing’s perspective,’ Hurley said.” “During the summer of 2018… a significant problem occurred due to a propellant leak. Ultimately, this would delay the company’s pad abort test by more than a year, but at the time, Boeing neglected to tell the Commercial Crew astronauts about the issue.” x.com/FutureJurvetson/status/1827393665377169618, abstract by Steve Jurveston from Eric Berger’s forthcoming book "Reentry" (www.amazon.com/Reentry-SpaceX-Reusable-Rockets-Launched/dp/1637745273).
This is the first time I have heard the word "stranded" used to describe this situation. In fact, NASA originally made this public, they were VERY adamant about the astronauts NOT being stranded. When I found out they were relying on a Boeing product to ride back to Earth, I knew the word stranded would have been more accurate.
NASA obviously don't want to be unalived for whistleblowing, so they are careful of their words. That's my hot take. You gotta be careful around these billionaire investors, especially if you claim that only rich people can get justice in the courts
Imagine the mental toughness you have to cultivate and maintain in order to endure a situation like this. Astronauts are superhuman-a fact we tend to forget.
Astronauts are super human? Seriously? How? They are pilots who have been given the privilege to go to space. I’m sick of the being considered hero’s or anything above a lucky patron of the Untitd States Air Force.
Agree with your views on this about the astronauts. The only problem with this whole incidence is Boeing’s incompetence. This is not a new technology and it makes no sense this could not have been prevented. The Boeing team is incapable of problem solving their own work as if they didn’t bother to do adequate testing nor did they felt responsible for the astronauts’ safety.
I'm sure the team is capable to problem solve their own work. From what I know from Boeing I expect that they just weren't given enough time/resource to do so and the Higher-Ups forced them to start the mission before they could
First, Boeing is not incompetent. They have a long list of successes to prove it - especially in their defence, space, and security division - or did you not realize that Boeing has different divisions? Second, it is absolutely a new technology. That’s why it’s still in its test phase. Third, problems are still the norm when it comes to operating in space. Look into anything to do with the ISS, and you will find a long list of problems and emergencies.
Thank you for covering this topic! I was so confused by the medias coverage. It is good to know they are okay and that there is a plan to get them back.
Boeing Starliner has been plauged by problems, giving them a free pass on this is a cop-out. They should be called out for what this is, poor engineering culture and execution.
In addition humanity has decades of experience to draw on interfacing with the ISS. Boeing can't even be trusted to make good airplanes right now. What are we thinking trusting them with space ships? They need to go back to their original core values before Lockheed sank their teeth into it putting profits over quality and safety.
Let's set the record straight. This isn't Starliner's first rodeo. It visited the ISS last year around this time, but that was an unmanned mission, and they called it flawless. Yet, giving Boeing a free pass here is simply not right. This spacecraft should never have been cleared to fly in the first place. The reality is it’s all about money. Boeing’s stock would have taken a severe hit if they hadn’t launched, and now SpaceX is left to pick up the pieces. Sure, their stock will dip, too, but not nearly as much. So, let’s not sugarcoat things or insult the intelligence of your audience by justifying Boeing’s actions that have put our astronauts at risk. We deserve better. Hold Boeing accountable!
The unmanned test mission of Starliner was not flawless. A couple of things did not work as intended. NASA requested investigation and correction. However instead of a second unmanned test mission to confirm that all problems have been rectified, NASA green-lighted a crew test mission.
The first attempt to send the Starliner to the space station failed. It was the second attempt that worked. Boeing is late, over budget and can't even do what Apollo did 50+ years ago. Considering the problems Boeing is also having with the 737 Max, something is seriously wrong at Boeing.
Why would SpaceX stock "dip too, but not nearly as much"? Unless I misread you. I don't see why SpaceX's worth would be damaged by mistakes of their competitors which drove more business to them. Also SpaceX isn't publicly traded so there's not even a way to observe their stock price in real time.
The one thing that this event has annoyed me with NASA: the lack of common suit connectors. The suits that Butch and Suni wore on Starliner are not compatible with the Dragon capsule, and vice versa. As a result, on the Crew 9 flight, suits will be sent up for them to use when then return in 2025. I understand that when NASA introduced the Commercial Crew program, they didn't mandate a common suit connection mechanism, but should they have required adapters be created to permit an astronaut with a Starliner suit be easily able to return to in a Dragon, and vice versa?
This is where creative license goes a little to far. These crafts aren't galaxy phones or iphones. They're not laptops or desktops. Manufacturers should have some type of absolute standards they should have to adhere to when human lives are involved.
the way it was explained to me was to limit the amount of "universal" or "commonality" of parts and equipment between the two vehicles and systems to keep one of the two options viable in the extreme case of having to ground the either one of the system for whatever reason. If their were to be a problem with any shared or common component we would have to ground both systems and wait for them to be fixed to fly , instead of grounding a singular system and using the other as "back up". I can see the reasoning behind not having a common mechanism to eliminate that specific issue but not having any way of cross pollinating systems without a complete rebuild or replacement is an issues as well.
@@drazesmith9216wouldn’t you think that perhaps accustoming both, at least a mandatory second option on all suits would be worthwhile? I wonder why this seemingly obvious option hasn’t been introduced?
@@brandileigh5369 Armchair quarterbacking this situation, I would’ve had interoperability for the suits and vehicles mandatory in place but then you’d run into issues on making the suit compatible with a spacecraft it would never fly on unless you have a specific circumstance. The dragon suits connector has coms , power , atmospheric pressure , and air through one cord. If Boeing doesn’t design their own suit with the single port connector in mind the dongle or connector between the two systems would be difficult or costly to design and back engineer. And then you run into the problem of configuring your own system for a use case that you have no control over , especially when it comes to differing design philosophy. The “batman prep time” logic would tell you to make everything swappable and interchangeable but it truly does eliminate autonomy of one’s product when you have to account for others logic. Imagine spacex having to redesign their own suit to accommodate a multi port system on the suit instead of the simpler single port one they have.
When I was in broadcasting school we were warned about "Sensationalizing" the news because you genuinely wanted to keep our public involved. I agree with you. The astronauts are really not in any more danger than their colleagues on station. Love your channel. have a great day.
NEIL: What I think the real story is and would love to hear you comment on.... is Boeing. Boeing, over budget, delays and delays, problems. Do a comparison of what Starliner has accomplished, the money spent, technical innovations achieved, timeframe of work, number of flights flown, contracts awarded, basically a full rundown comparing the Starliner to SpaceX Crew Dragon. People should be informed in things like SpaceX had to sue to get into the outer space club...... That is not right.
he is an astrophysicist - the full rundown you speak of is best left to the armchair internet geniuses who know far better about how to build things because they watch youtube videos on perpetual motion machines than hundreds of engineers who actually build things by training, profession and experience. Failure is an option as Neil already explained, its how things become robust frankly. Did you know Blue Origin also got a contract? how are they panning out? Lets get a rundown on their accomplishments and innovations and timeline while we are at it then we can compare all 3.
@@BenJaminLongTime Glad you said this. Yes, Boeing has been having issues and probably cutting corners where they shouldn't with their airplanes. It does seem way too common that you hear about a story of a 737 having its door blown off mid flight or such similar issues. However, space travel is a whole other beast. In the advance of these spacecraft to become cheaper and reusable things are going to malfunction occasionally that you do not expect. It's a good thing that we catch these things and are able to avoid another Challenger disaster.
Not sure what NGTs point is. It's he arguing they are not stranded, or merely stating this is not as serious as say apollo 13? I think we get that it is not that serious, but a mission that was supposed to take 8 days now taking 8 months kinda falls into the definition of stranded. If you drop your kid off at band camp and are supposed to pick them up in 8 days, but something happens and you can't get there for 8 months, i would argue they are stranded, even if they really like band camp and if there is lots of food, they are still stranded.
I totally agree. I’ve never been to space, but I assume there are only so many somersaults you can do and only so many views before you get disappointed that you won’t be with your family for the holidays. “But Manhattan” yeah but those people can leave their studio apartment.
No, you missed the point of the video. If the Astronauts lives were in any kind of danger, they NASA would have bring them home quickly but they've decided there is no reason to panic
It won't be the first time nauts had forced extensions in the lSS. Thing is the media is pushing the "stranded" bit without putting it into context by letting the public know, like NDT is here, under what conditions their extended stay will be
He is running defense for NASA and space programs in general because media tried to scandalize it to the point of people losing faith in said initiatives which are very vulnerable to public perception.
I understand the technical hurdles. But the truth is Boeing never took this program seriously, despite getting TWICE the public money allocated to SpaceX. I hear a lot the excuse "Starliner is a brand new craft while Dragon is based on a proven cargo ship". That is false. Both vehicles are actually brand-new, except Starliner's development was sluggish and it still relies on very old designs (thrusters, cockpit, spacesuits...).
The USA and its "too big to fail" bloated quasi governmental companies have become very corrupt. The past 4 years it feels like living in the Soviet Union. Boeing having all these problems with their planes, their whistle blowers all committing self deletion, yeah things are really bad and I expect things to get much much worse before they get better. IF they get better. Personally I dont think my fellow americans have the strength of spirit or the purity of heart to make things get better.
Sir I respect you to a high extent! I love how you break it down to us less knowledgeable people on this type of things! One of my favorite quotes i heard you say on the Joe Rogan podcast was "Do not memorize something that you can find in a book" I know it's not your exact words, but I loved it! I was in the Army for 8 years and I have done a lot of boards and one thing that I remember was if you did not remember an answer to one of the questions they were asking, your reply should be, for example "No 1st SGT, I do not know the answer at this moment but I will go to the manual or TM and look it up and get back to you 1st SGT.!" They did not care if you knew it by heart but at least you know where to reference it.
This should be a loud warning to people who think they can just go out into space for fun. ANYTHING can go wrong. These people were only SUPPOSED to be in space for 8 days. Now it’s been months and will be several more months because of some mistake or misjudgment. It ridiculous.
@@rzwitdauncut ISS keeps several months of extra food supplies at all times. There will be more cargo ships coming in the meanwhile to restock. ISS also has two main bathrooms (plenty enough for 8 people currently on board) and smaller toilet in Dragon spacecraft.
Decent summery. If you happen to read this, the only issue is that this wasn't the first Starliner flight. This was the 3rd flight. The first failed horribly and nearly ended in a loss of vehicle. They were forced to redo that test. The second flight was uncrewed and docked to the ISS. It has several issues, but those were supposed to be fixed before crew were put onboard. This 3rd flight was supposed to be the final validation flight before it entered full operation. The issues found during this flight were supposed to be fixed after flight 2. Unfortunately, not only were they not fixed, they were even worse. Also of note is that Boeing was supposed to be the reliable contractor for the commercial crew program. They were given twice as much as SpaceX to do essentially the same thing. Both Boeing and SpaceX were in a race to see who could get crew safely to the ISS and bring them home first. A literal capture the flag race to grab the flag left by the final Shuttle mission. SpaceX won that race over 4 YEARS AGO! Not much of a race, was it. 😂
@@louseveryann2181 lol. I didn't even think about that. Just the doors falling off while flying and the jets trying to nose dive into the ground due to software a few years ago.
Way to go, Dr. Neil. In the movie Marooned the retro rocket engine would not fire. And, the Russian rendezvous with the American capsule proved a lesson in international cooperation. The Russian cosmonaut provided much needed oxygen to the NASA crew before the rescue ship arrived. In the end one of our astronauts was lost. He damaged his space suit while attempting to repair the faulty engine. But, that gave the other two astronauts more oxygen. And, bravo to the Russian cosmonaut. He made a difference. Despite the fiction of the movie I saw hope for international cooperation. Well, we had it for a while.
Neil, this isn't about the astronauts, they'll be fine. This is about Boeing's incompetence. Starliner and Dragon 2 began development in the same year. Dragon 2 was human rated in 2020 and has flown like 50 people to the orbit by now. Meanwhile, Starliner, despite being almost twice as expensive and developed by a veteran of aerospace, is only just now received its human rating, and flunking it. Do you see the problem? EDIT: Also, anyone who was following Starliner's development for the last few years is completely unsurprised by this.
The problem with the Apollo going to the moon and Boeing going to ISS, would be a viable explanation if this was the first capsule to do so. 7 Previous unique space crafts have docked, supplied, changed crew, undocked and landed safely back on earth. The list so you can double check is 1. Space Shuttle: NASA’s retired fleet of reusable spacecraft. 2. Soyuz: Russian crewed spacecraft. 3. Progress: Russian uncrewed resupply spacecraft. 4. Dragon: SpaceX’s crewed and uncrewed spacecraft. 5. Cygnus: Northrop Grumman’s uncrewed resupply spacecraft. 6. HTV (H-II Transfer Vehicle): Japan’s uncrewed resupply spacecraft. 7. ATV (Automated Transfer Vehicle): European Space Agency’s uncrewed resupply spacecraft. *. Starliner: Boeing’s crewed spacecraft.
@@straunwagner6322 A Congressional Investigation about how the $4 Billion was spent with receipts and full accountability to every cent. Failure to balance the sheet - retrospective federal fraud charges for all involved with the Starliner project from the CEO down to the janitor involved in the project. They aren't stealing from NASA, they stealing from the taxpayer. You. 🤬
That's Tyson's stock and trade. He states something very obvious in his million-dollar voice (almost as good as that of James Earl Jones), and everybody thinks it's profound because of his masterful portentous delivery . . . until after a while they realize, "Gee, everybody knows that already."
@@Buddy308In practical terms I agree, there's an almost fortune cookie type vibe to it where you know he's not speaking like that around his fellow scientists and yet he assumes we exist several rungs below the ladder of his peers to be impressed by it.
Yeah that's why AI anything terrifies me because it begins with "the doors are sealed for your safety" and it ends with "restrictive air supply engaged".
@@richinoable Arthur Clarke approved of basic punctuation too. 🤦 It's truly ridiculous to hear people like you cite the most knowledgeable people in world history while having standards worse than a child in basic education.
Actually, I am angry! The "experts" should have thoroughly tested the backups, such as a backup shuttle craft. The leaking fuel... are you kidding me? That should have been remediated in a FMEA. Metal warps with mechanical stresses, vibration, material degradation, unbalanced load, temperature gradients, etc. Did they check for these?? I wouldn't be surprised that the employees that were promoted to management positions were good talkers, not good engineers. That creates the chaos that leads to disaster.
Thank you! You answered so many questions that I have had about the situation. Because the way is it is presented it makes people worry about them a lot.
Counter-argument (which I realized arguing against NDT is like trying to outshine the Sun): the two stuck astronauts maybe had plans, and being stuck in space might be taking them away from friends and family events that could be more important to them than being in space. I mean, I like going to Disney, but if I got locked in there for a year and missed Christmas, and my kid’s birthday, or a 60th anniversary celebration for my parents, etc - I’d be pretty unhappy to be at Disney after a while. Now if I had planned to live at Disney for a year, different story. I’d have done things before my trip. Seen certain people. Take care of some personal matters, etc.
Literally what i said! Not to mention they’ll have packed for a week, i reckon that one book you wanted to read on the trip will be real dull the millionth time… hopefully they can share entertainment with the others on the station. And thats not even touching on the health implications…
I expect better. I think there was never a shuttle launch without another shuttle assembled and ready on another pad, in case it was needed, which it never was. The ISS is replenished with supplies, but I don't think they stock it with extra. Could be wrong. So are they stranded? Yes, in the way someone is stranded in a cabin after a blizzard, except it's not for 6 months. Boeing should be embarrassed, and people should remember this in the future.
Thanks Neil, I feel a lot less anxiety for these two now and I think I could handle a lot better myself now that you've explained in in those terms. Boredom would be my biggest problem under this new scenario.
He's gaslighting! The higher ups at NASA don't want you to be thinking that people may actually DIE up there! That's not good publicity! Neil is just a publicity agent that's all! You had better believe that those two lives are very definitely on the line! This isn't Star Trek or Star Wars! Neil knows it, NASA knows it, and you can bet your life that those two astronauts know it! After almost 70 years of doing this, you would think NASA would have it down pat by now! Shameful!!!
"Stranded 1. left without the means to move from somewhere." Yes they are stranded, until February. They cannot leave as intended. They don't need to be rescued exactly, they just had to call a SpaceX taxi. Uber doesn't go there... yet.
@@Bricknose91 I’m still a novice when it comes to learning about aerospace - I barely know the basics, which is why I’m here to learn. Of course I’m familiar with the phrase, it was just sounded silly to me (in a good way) to hear it in this context.
It is great to know what happened to those astronaut from a good source and a man educated on this matters as well thank u and I hope they are able to bring them home even quicker 😔
Lololo. Neil! I love you! 400 ft in NYC isn’t as expensive as 400 ft in Space. Lololo. That made me laugh. My son and I lived in a 400 sq ft house & LOVED it - but we could go outside without imploding. & We had all kinds of animals come visit my son’s window. They found it fascinating to watch him sleep: miniature horses, hawks, deer, bear, foxes, and even a peacock! The ISS is wonderful and there are TONS of science tests to run - so you will NEVER get bored. I’ve had many friends on the ISS. It really is a DREAM COME TRUE. Anyone complaining didn’t deserve to go there when 100s never will go there. It’s a LONG waiting list to go. AND you can change mankind FOREVER…🎉 Astronaut Glover changed Space Force - just by flipping his personal iPhone in Space, mentioning actual telescopes, then helping Stephanie Cozart (LeVar’s wife) and I figure out if one of the LA fires was coming her way and if she needed to evacuate. It wasn’t coming her way, so she was fine. But Glover’s willingness to take a more-detailed look at the fire - from Space - is WHY Space Force asked Mike to transfer from NASA TO the USSF ON the ISS. He changed just how much Humanitarian work Space Force could do and is doing today. They should be fine. Typically the ISS has 2 years of food, tons of equipment, tools and 3D printers for items and food. They couldn’t be in a better place.
If an airline which is supposed to get you home leaves you stuck in an airport then you are refered to as a stranded passenger. By that definition these astronaughts are stranded.
After working for 42+ years in corporate America, and the phrase I grew to despise the most is “risk management”. It’s fine to apply it physical safety but it’s used by corporate nabobs to justify doing nothing because it’s safe. People get fired for mistakes. No action or decision, no reason to get yourself fired. Whatever happened to “Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way.”?
The real issue isn't just the astronauts having their stay extended on the ISS. It's the blatant negligence by Boeing in the development of their spacecraft. Time and again, Boeing has ignored warnings from engineers about critical problems with their designs, actively arguing against addressing those concerns. This isn't just a spaceflight issue-it's part of a larger pattern seen in their commercial aircraft as well. Boeing’s history of cutting corners and prioritizing profits over safety is well documented, and it consistently puts lives at risk. Astronauts were jeopardized because Boeing refused to take necessary precautions, dismissing potential dangers as unimportant. This negligence has caused mission delays, budget overruns, and made Boeing a liability to numerous organizations. That’s the real problem, and it's time people start holding them accountable.🙂
4:10 This NOT "the first out test" of starliner. This is its third mission to space. Starliner's first unmanned test flight of a mission to navigate to the ISS, dock, and return to Earth was a massive debacle with SW bugs that were mission failure. The 2nd flight had thruster and leak problems and now this 3rd flight Im sure everyone is well versed already with its issues.
"The Apollo program was a success, but not a perfect success. Apollo 1 was a tragedy with an amazingly negligent cause, that the possibility of a fire was simply dismissed. Apollo 13 was a close call that demonstrated the high risk inherent in complex systems. Apollo 13 returned without landing and the last three Apollo flights were cancelled to support Skylab and to divert the NASA budget to new programs. The Apollo program achieved only six of the ten planned moon landings." ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20190002249
@@SiphiliSx Yet SpaceX without nearly the same level of institutional knowledge that Boeing has for crew flight in space. Managed to meet all objectives with one uncrewed test flight to the ISS and one crewed test flight to the ISS. SpaceX has done what 12+ crewed flight for both NASA and private customers now. Let's not make excuses for Boeing's incompetence.
This was NOT the first Starliner test. This was Starliners first human crewed flight. It has already failed in previous uncrewed tests, the first of these tests being in 2019! Boeing got 4.2 billion to develop it while SpaceX received 2.6 billion Despite getting more money, it was Starting which run in cost over runs... 1.5 billion dollars above original cost "Originally planned to be operational in 2017, the Starliner project has encountered delays, management issues, and engineering challenges. The first unmanned Orbital Flight Test in December 2019 was deemed a partial failure, leading to a second Orbital Flight Test in May 2022. The Crew Flight Test, launched in June 2024, experienced malfunctions-leaking helium and outage of five of the eight aft-facing reaction control system thrusters-on approach to the ISS, leading NASA to conclude that it was too risky to return its astronauts to Earth aboard Starliner." Really Neil, you should NOT be giving a free pass to Boeing on this one
1960s definition of 'stranded' is two astronauts stuck in a tiny capsule with little oxygen, no food or water and only a crazy hair brained life risking scheme to recuse them. 2024 definition of being stranded is two astronauts having to extend their mission in a multinational space station, with half a dozen other astronauts, with enough supplies for several months while awaiting someone to decide which or who's system will be sent up to bring them back sometime, but no rush.
It's not about the Astronauts being "stranded". It's about Boeing wanting to bring them back in Starliner. They don't know if it's going to make but they are willing to take that chance with human lives. Good thing NASA stepped in.
@@Austintwo3 Then you can't lecture others on growing and learning when you've regressed and gone backwards to the standards of a six year old, It's that simple.
I think the big deal is that the spaceX dragon routinely goes to the iss and was supposed to be inexperienced kid and ULA is supposed to be the adults that really know what they are doing
I bet Elon is real happy right now. Imagine a space mission goes wrong and your company is called to lead the rescue. It's his time to shine and prove to the world he has what it takes to get the job done.
@@dennisferguson9129 I don't even like Elon as a person, but I can recognize he's on the frontier of human advancement. He ushered us into the age of electric vehicles (or the beginnings of it) and proved to the world that space development can be privatized. He succeeded where other billionaires failed. As much as I don't like him, I can't help but admire him.
@@abstract5249 I don't know Elon so can't say if I like or dislike. He IS doing some great things that would be beyond my capability. He must be a genius and a great man!
Only Doctor Tyson.... The media has been posting a lot of news making a bigger deal out of the predicament in which the astronauts find themselves in, until the best educator comes in and clarify to us how natural this situation is. Thank you Dr. Tyson and Startalk. yours sincerely Nilton from Mozambique, Africa
I've seen movies like this. Don't worry, they'll be ok after a few harrowing, Hollywood type moments: running out of air, getting hit by a Chinese satellite, worry if the tiny tear caused by the satellite will withstand reentry, blackout drama (complete with concerned kids watching while sitting at their desks at school), blackout lasts an obnoxiously long amount of time after they splash into the ocean, then joyful uproars everywhere as the mission commander finally says "Houston, we're a bit wet over here," or some such nonsense. Then it will wind down with the news that the Chinese government is suing all of the astronauts for damage to their satellite and repair costs, hinting at a second movie. For the record, IANANAP (I am not a NASA astrophysicist)
I think the reason the news are making noise about this is for two reasons: 1) the Boeing Issue. Boeing has been having issues with their airplanes, then videos were resurfacing on the internet and their stock drop. It sounded like the space mission was their PR Hail Mary, and it fails, thus continuing Boeing’s bad streak. 2) Human Inconvenience. From the perspective of any average American, being stranded is usually a sign of distress and perhaps it adds some adversity. Being stranded without gravity or much air to breathe in, it could rise the emotions of 99.7% of humans who will never be in that situation. I agree that sometimes the sensationalism of news could be brought down, but I think it is still a noteworthy for the press to give coverage. We all hope with a safe return.
I am reading news that sunitas eyesight is being negatively affected by prolonged exposure to microgravity though Niel, that was something I hope you were going to address, the negative effects of space
The detrimental effects of microgravity/space travel on eyesight are well-documented. In fact, from the research done to date, the effect appears to be more pronounced in males than in females. So Butch's eyesight might be more affected. The effects are different for each space traveler. Studies are being conducted to attempt to find countermeasures to the eyesight issues. Excellent comment. Cheers 🚀
Why would you think that? Seriously, ponder that question. How much time would you take to fix the issue? If your answer is that you couldn't because you don't know the first thing about the engineering behind space travel then what are you basing this estimate of how long it should take to begin with? Or do you think they're being lazy and forgot to snap their fingers in order to instantly gratify everyone?
The problem I find with the arguments at 4:30 is that there should have been an entire slew of testing before humans flew on the spacecraft. There also should NOT have been a valve supplier warning NASA that the parts in question are past their lifecycle as a direct result of Boeing's mismanagement. A test flight needs to find UNINTENDED faults, not totally foreseen faults.
10 years ago Elon Musk said we would have people on Mars but instead we have people stuck in Space for 8 months. That's exactly how long it would take to go to mars.
You seem to be taking a negative outlook on his response but there is nothing wrong with being an optimist. He recognized the severity of the situation but that doesn't mean the video should be a pit of despair and anxiety. He aims to educate and ease the public and get us to ask more questions. Sorry for the long response, not saying you can't have your own opinion on the video I just wanted to throw mine in there as well!
Yeah, but it’s the first time they viewed this particular capsule so of course they’re gonna have problems. I’m sure they thought this was a possibility. This is typical that the corporate media needs a big story so they turn it into something that it’s not.
@@michaelkelley5119they had no idea this was a possibility. That's why the vehicle isn't configured to autonomously undock. The autonomous undock software hasn't been updated in 2 years. Whether it can do it is in question. They need to push an update and cross their fingers.
He's clearly addressing the safety of the astronauts and how NASA is prepared for many situations. The problem with Boeing as company is a whole different topic.
Not really. Stranded means you cannot go anywhere, but this is not the case. First off, there is the Boeing craft, maybe not 100% secure, but nothing never is anyways. But you also have the capsule the other astronauts came in, which they can use, but this then of course implies that the other crew needs to take the Boeing craft in case something happens to the ISS. Lastly, you have several space agencies capable of going to the ISS with a craft to get them. Russia, China, SpaceX and so on. But it's very expensive though, SpaceX is the cheapest, and a falcon9 launch is about 60 million dollars. So instead of spending that money to get them, they just let them be there until a launch they have already budgeted is happening, which is in February. So they are not really stranded.
The concept of 'stranded' as we hear usually is painted with an ominous brush. Yet in this context, stranded functions more like an extended stay, not a life-threatening scenario. It's evident that space exploration involves innate risks and this situation, contrary to popular belief, isn't a dire one.
Its stranded the same way people can be stranded on a desert island. Sure you might not be at risk of dying if theres food and it might even be pleasant, but you’re still stranded, you have no way home
What's DIRE is BOEING going the way of Sears and Nokia and Xerox and Kodak. They're CLEARLY getting lapped by SpaceX and others. It's a company that needs turned around quickly...or it will cease to be a force in Space.
@@katierasburn9571wrong analogy. The correct one would be like you going to Japan for a vacation and the airplane services stops working. And you are now stuck in Japan for a certain period of time. But does that mean we can't question the cause of the inconvenience? Definitely not , we can and we should question the failure of Boeing. And I think Neil wanted to say that in the video.
After having watched the video completely, I now understand that the situation is more of an inconvenience, and not really a crisis. However, we should still be vigilant and learn from this experience, to improve future space (and other types of) missions.
But the Starliner is basically Apollo 2.0. Why can't Boeing build a spacecraft that was built 50+ years ago and flown to the moon? Now Boeing can't build the same spacecraft and fly it to the ISS. And helium leaks? Didn't they bother to fully test the system before they flew it in space? Boeing is lucky that the ISS was there for the astronauts to dock with. If this was a simple "go to orbit and return to earth" mission, they might not have made it back alive because of the thruster problems. That's why NASA decided to have Space-X go up and get them. NASA doesn't trust the Starliner to bring the astronauts home. And Neil, while I have great admiration for him, is trying to sugar coat this.
@@frankrose9952 Boeing has a terrible reputation for catastrophic failures with their airplanes that have caused the deaths of many people. Not a great company. I would not invest in them.
Let’s be honest, you learn nothing from this sugarcoated version of the reality. I mean they will be happy to spend another 6months in space BUT WHY? In the absence of spacex will they be happy to spend a few years up there. When this when Boeing got 4.2billion compared to 2.4billion to spacex and spacex already made more than a dozen round trips.
@@pradeeppatra007 Yeah Boeing is trash; they should be boycotted for their numerous failures. They should find another hobby besides building flying vehicles that cause many deaths.
Neil, you forgot to mention the physical decay of a human being in space. The loss of muscle mass and bone density just for a couple of weeks just make u a paraplegic when you return to earth. So Sunita staying up there for so many months will become like Dr. Glass from the movie Split with fragile bones and unable to move.
Such a pleasure supporting the channel as always Neil, Chuck and Gary! To those of you interested in staying fully informed with the latest Space News check out the link in the description and let us know if you have any questions.
Dr Tyson, I love the way you bring us the bigger picture of situations that happen. I loved the episode where you explained how improbable our existence is. It helps me to form a bigger picture. Thank you and I love your podcast!----------------
I wasn’t aware the first 10 Apollo missions were “incremental” missions to test every stage of the final mission all the way to the moon. Makes me proud of the US and of mankind. Being wise enough to do their due diligence
"Stranded - adj- Left without the means to move from somewhere " So, until the SpaceX dragon arrives to take them home, they are by definition, stranded. It's not about what they are doing, the company they are keeping, or the supplies on hand. Also, I'm sure their families, who were expecting an 8 day mission, are extatic anout the extension. By definition, they are stranded.
nice try deGrasse, but didn't the ENGINEERS, COO's, CFO's, & CEO's of yester-year Apollo all have a single focus on space frontier success ... not $$$$. so give the check back, where did it come from?
They are just sending 2 extra suits up with Dragon. The worst part is 2 other astronauts trained for years to go on this mission, and now they can't go because Boeing made a poor excuse of a spacecraft. 🤷♂️
@@JAY.ARE47 I know that. But not haveing suits cross compatible goes back to Apollo 13 and the CO2 scrubbers. But then so much reality tv would never happen.
And the taxpayer is to blame for that because thanks to the total lack of interest in investing towards space exploration, it means they can no longer afford to make their own equipment in house.
I think they went private because you can't accumulate wealth from working at NASA, but if you contract out and you can get the contract, you can make a lot. America loves to make billionaires. What is the value of the contracts to SpaceX and Boeing compared to NASA cuts? Who pays for all the rockets SpaceX blows up? I doubt we are saving money.
Thank you for the straight talk on this matter. I salute you and your honesty. The media has blown this so far out of proportion. Anyway, didn't want to take up too much of your time. Love your show!!! 😊
Oh. I didn't know that there were 6 people there. All good, but the health problems (bone density, joint fluids, and excessive radiation) for such a long stay are real
Let's not pretend you know more than scientific experts when you cannot use the educational standards of a child to end your sentence with a punctuation mark. It's kinda the equivalent of don't sprint before you can walk.
8:06 If space is routine they could have gotten them back by now right? . It is a stretch to call it a routine when they can probably send another capsule in 6 months.
Neil makes good points but there needs to be an accident investigation. We need to know why Boeing, despite great effort, couldn't repeat something we could do in 1965.
Given the unforeseen extension of the astronauts' mission, how should mission planners re-evaluate life support systems and resource management for potential future long-term space travel?
Safe home to Suni & Butch
How many Humans would it take to manually operate a Dyson Swarm that has primitive automated systems ? & do you think Stellar Husbandry & Stellar Engineering would be a more logical progression instead of draining our Star's Energy via a Dyson energy extraction method ?
Thank you for this video. It sometimes feels like we're at a plateau where we are going in space but there is progress. Its nice to be reminded.
I suppose it's smart to always have more than you need
Boeing, NASA and SpaceX need to at least get together and set standards for things like space suit tech. I read "it's good there are different suits so we can find out what works best." Well, but it's also a problem now. So how about we just give it a lot more thought and research down here, agree on one standard and go with that. Then we wouldn't have even more problems, with incompatible space suits.
NASA: We need you to build us a crewed spacecraft
Boeing: A crude spacecraft? No problem
They got stuck because the US government and NASA allowed Boeing to use their equipment in order to save the company from bankruptcy due to the failing airline. This was a government bailout to a company in order to save it using taxpayer money without the taxpayers realising it. Is there any Boeing whistleblowers that are still alive? They all committed suicide or died in improbable ways.
And when marketing and sales met with the engineers they misread their NASA notes and told the engineers to make a crud spacecraft.
😂
Boeing can't even keep doors on their planes, so you think their spacecraft will fair any better?
Best comment. 👌
The issue isn't the astonauts having their stay extended on the ISS. The issue is the severe neglect by Boeing when it came to the craft and them actively arguing with engineers advising them about problems with the craft. This has been a history with Boeing not just with the spaceflight program, but also their aircraft. They constantly put people at risk due to them cutting corners and ignoring issues because profit. The astronauts were put at risk because Boeing did not do due diligence and address issues as they cropped up because they deemed that it wasn't important enough. Boeings neglect has cost mission delays as well and has gone over budget, being a liability to multiple organizations. THAT is the issue.
No, the issue is that you want to roast Boeing and you do not know how to read. The title of the video is: concerning the stranded astronauts. Learn to read
@@gwendyp125the video makes the point that the astronauts are fine. People being critical of the company that caused this problem, assuming these things are true, is understandable. The video said mistakes are part of the process, sure, but if they're ignoring safety protocols and known science that's not ok.
@@cutecats532 Other countries offered to bring the astronauts home already. Boeing refused because they want to keep their technology secret.
@@cutecats532 Yeah, I'm fine with putting the blame on Boeing on matters technical or regarding safety. The company is basically a joke of the least funny type.
The video though was really just about those astronauts and what are facing due to that failure
@@benwu7980 I agree the astornauts are fine, I just don't care for Tyson excusing the failure on Beoings part using the Apollo program as an example and just going "Oh, it's the cost of exploration". Unexpected failures sure, I can get. Boeing knowing about these failures and choosing to go ahead anyways, not so much. That is negligence.
On April 13th, 1970, I was watching the movie Marooned with my brother, which was being played on TV . Walter Cronkite came on TV and interrupted the program to say that the men in Apollo 13 were in trouble. How surreal is that!
what a great thing to make up!
in the year 2055 I was watching The Matrix with my brother when the AI robots attacked! How surreal is that!
@@SWIRFTVby the way brother the song goes in the year 2525
Neil, are you following this line. Space s*** is fun
Classic definition of "Life imitating Art" I remember it well as a young Boy !
I started working at NASA this year on June 3rd and on June 6th I just so happened to be getting a tour around the site and stopped by building#30, minutes before this spacecraft launched and was invited to watch the launch from mission control . Coolest thing I’ve ever witnessed . Hope the Starliner crew gets home safe🙏🏾
Congratulations to you on your new NASA job!🎉 And to be there in mission control! Enjoy. I wish you well.
Time to play Harry Nilsson's 1972 song (I wanna be a ) 'Spaceman' .
Lyrics match this stranded scenario ! @neildegrassetson
music.ruclips.net/video/-yK5vUFBshM/видео.html&si=nNtMa0BHttxCvIdB
Stranded is hyperbole, but I can't help but feel like Neil is minimizing Boeing's incompetence here. Imagine not uploading the undocking software among other safety procedures that should have been applied prior to launch.
It's not right to diminish this. My respect just went down. Boeing should be sued out of existence.
"Stranded" not hyperbole. It is the word, with "stuck" as well, the media uses for the exact analog for passengers in Timbuktu, for example, when their jet has become unsafe and they are "stranded" in the airport. Butch and Sunni are even more so stranded, inasmuch as stranded passengers in most cases will shortly be able to safely leave in an alternative jet or airline. Or a ship for the matter.
Of course, because he's a shill for the system.
I agree kagazuki. Also, he's saying ISS is not too cramped to be stuck in for 6 months, and minimized that as well. Would he think it's acceptable to sign up for a work assignment, and end up living with other people in a space that small, as opposed to his current home with his family?
Neil doesn't want to offend anybody.
Neil, this is the third test of Starliner and the first crewed test. Their second test managed to dock with ISS for the first time, and during that test they found a problem with their thrusters.
For some reason, they proceed with the crewed flight test without finding the root cause of the thruster issue found on the previous test, and here we are.
he's a sell out...take what he says with a grain of salt
Boing* doing what Boing* does. nothing new there, it seems that they are just relying on their name these days, sort out any problems later.
Why is he covering so hard for Boeing? Really weird
coz its Boing and this is what they do
@markvietti i disagree, what is he selling space? I'll buy with my time cuz i aint got money to spend 😂 . That said, ive only listen to his space talk stuff nothing else. But what he saying here seems reasonable. What in particular did you have a problem with besides the presenter?
Not too long ago a story like this would mesmerise the world in disbelief. Today it's barely a footnote
too busy talking about what color trumps underwear was today and how many times biden stuttered. no one cares about what matters anymore. the news used to be about the news. now it’s just garbage.
You might have missed the point of this post.
They aren't "stranded" and they don't need to be "rescued". This is the media sensationalizing the situation.
@@widescreennavel My observation is an acknowledgement of the genuine chaos in every corner of the world, such that a story as ... out of this world as this one isn't headline-grabbing. I maintain this view, Neil's commentary notwithstanding
Addendum: I had the same thought when the James Webb Space Telescope was launched. I think these are pretty big deals.
The Apollo 13 documentary is a must see for everyone.
Astronauts being "marooned" is not the important part of this story, it's the failure of the Boing Starliner module. Another nail!
Facts
Exactly what I was thinking. Another Boeing story.
lol @ another nail. There are multiple wars going on in the world and Boing is a military contractor. They will be fine.
It's not a failure. It's a thermal limitation in the current service module doghouses.
"Stranded..."
My good friend's uncle is Butch Wilmore. As a space nerd, I enjoy talking to her (my friend) about Butch and his journey. Well, he's LOVING IT!!! It's his last flight ever, and he gets to enjoy space, do science experiments that he was never supposed to perform, and add more time logged to his career, which matters to astronauts apparently. However, his wife and family are not too happy about it. They're happy for his career, but they want their dad and husband back. They've been dealing with this one flight for years, from training, to delay after delay. They're just upset it's not over and there's no guarantee February is the return date either. It's a lot of sacrifice for the family, with a lot of unknowns.
I'd totally be sharing his feelings! I'd be happy to stay up there longer and log more time (we pilots enjoy logging time too). I mean, I'd be a bit unsure about reentry in the Starliner, but staying in orbit longer wouldn't bother me one bit. One of my first thoughts when this issue started was that the two astronauts would probably be happy to remain on the ISS longer. Being a big space nerd as well, I can absolutely understand their feelings because it's highly unlikely I'll ever go to space for a second in my life. That said, the issue with this situation (debacle) is Boeing dropping the ball. They got the contract for being the golden child contractor of the government and now their equipment is failing not simply during development, testing, or unmanned stages, but during a crewed mission.
It's like being told by your boss that you need to stay for extended time at your favorite vacation spot.
Condolences to the family, but I'd be loving it. 😂
Sad for the family but great to hear he's loving it.
Well, at least they may get a major amount of overtime. They should, and other compensation, for the stress and inconvenience.
How exciting though, what an accomplishment and my thoughts and prayers are with the crew and the safe return of our stranded crew!!
The biggest downside is they're both basically eliminated from future Moon and Mars missions due to the prolonged radiation exposure tagged onto their existing life-time allowance. They're going to log an extra 5.75 months and that's basically 6 months worth of radiation that has to come off of your total time in space allowance. Even with the stations' shielding, a year on the ISS still exposes them to more radiation than experienced by residents of Japan who lived near the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accidents of 2011. They're both going to get roughly 150 millisieverts of radiation exposure and that's going to take them out of future mission consideration due to previous missions and their already accrued radiation amounts.
On Earth, humans are exposed to 3 to 4 millisieverts (mSv) of radiation a year, mostly from natural sources like some kinds of rocks and the few cosmic rays that get through the atmosphere. On the International Space Station, astronauts get about 300 mSv per year. Until now, a 55-year-old male NASA astronaut was limited to an effective dose of 400 mSv over his career, while a 35-year-old female astronaut could only be exposed to 120 mSv.
NASA is looking at raising the allowance level to 600 mSv for astronauts, and if they do so then perhaps Wilmore and Williams will be able to be put back on future Moon/Mars rosters. But right now, this is the end of both of their space faring.
That's true; however, the odds of them getting a Moon mission before they retire (they're not young) are slim. And they'll likely be dead of old age well before any NASA crew Mars mission.
@@robertmiller9735 Even a moon mission has fatal radiation risks if they get a bout of solar weather. One of the apollo missions barely missed a huge solar flare that would have been fatal if memory serves. I wonder how they plan to shield crew in the ship and on the ground. At least on the ground one would hope an early robotic mission or first crewed missions would make an underground shelter.
NERRRRRRRRRD!
???? What ????
The "stranded" astronauts are test pilots for a new spaceship that's already too old... Sunni didn't even think she'd be able to go back to the ISS, but had an opportunity because she was a helicopter test pilot... Butch was basically Top Gun...
The radiation question is a big unknown. Idk, imo..? Radiation in LEO is different than a trip to the moon/mars/venus, and might not be as big of a problem as microgravity, isolation, or lack of contingency plans for deep space missions
Don't worry, it's all fake.
If I didn’t check that this is Neil channel, I would’ve thought this is Boeing PR Channel.
Chris Ferguson might think, I was right. When he withdrawn from Starliner astronaut test team
“It surrounds what has really amounted to a year that is replete with family obligations that I just do not want to risk missing.”
Doug Hurley, commander of SpaceX Crew Dragon Demo-2:
“That summer NASA was closing in on making crew assignments for the first flights. Hurley told the chief of the astronaut office he would not fly on Starliner.”
As:
“There was an arrogance with them that you certainly didn’t see at SpaceX.”
“Boeing also underperformed. Not only were its engineers overconfident, but the company’s management also was not putting skin in the game. Hurley did not see any urgency from Boeing’s teams. Rather, they appeared to be working part-time on Starliner. ‘It was all about managing dollars and cents from Boeing’s perspective,’ Hurley said.”
“During the summer of 2018… a significant problem occurred due to a propellant leak. Ultimately, this would delay the company’s pad abort test by more than a year, but at the time, Boeing neglected to tell the Commercial Crew astronauts about the issue.”
x.com/FutureJurvetson/status/1827393665377169618, abstract by Steve Jurveston from Eric Berger’s forthcoming book "Reentry" (www.amazon.com/Reentry-SpaceX-Reusable-Rockets-Launched/dp/1637745273).
This is the first time I have heard the word "stranded" used to describe this situation. In fact, NASA originally made this public, they were VERY adamant about the astronauts NOT being stranded. When I found out they were relying on a Boeing product to ride back to Earth, I knew the word stranded would have been more accurate.
[[LAUGHTER INTENSIFIES]] 😅😂🤣
lol
NASA obviously don't want to be unalived for whistleblowing, so they are careful of their words. That's my hot take. You gotta be careful around these billionaire investors, especially if you claim that only rich people can get justice in the courts
Dude, take a trip to MSN, it's everywhere from various news agencies.
Boeing has abandoned them and now their best hope currently is everyone's favourite rich kid wonder boy.
Imagine the mental toughness you have to cultivate and maintain in order to endure a situation like this. Astronauts are superhuman-a fact we tend to forget.
Astronauts are super human? Seriously? How? They are pilots who have been given the privilege to go to space. I’m sick of the being considered hero’s or anything above a lucky patron of the Untitd States Air Force.
@@VerticalSound I think most are scientists these days, but yeah at first they were pilots because space flight is somewhat tricky.
Could you do it? @@VerticalSound
Like the one that wore a diaper on the way to pepper spray an Air Force Captain? That kind of superhuman ?
I would flip out unless there was alot of room
Agree with your views on this about the astronauts. The only problem with this whole incidence is Boeing’s incompetence. This is not a new technology and it makes no sense this could not have been prevented. The Boeing team is incapable of problem solving their own work as if they didn’t bother to do adequate testing nor did they felt responsible for the astronauts’ safety.
I'm sure the team is capable to problem solve their own work. From what I know from Boeing I expect that they just weren't given enough time/resource to do so and the Higher-Ups forced them to start the mission before they could
First, Boeing is not incompetent. They have a long list of successes to prove it - especially in their defence, space, and security division - or did you not realize that Boeing has different divisions?
Second, it is absolutely a new technology. That’s why it’s still in its test phase.
Third, problems are still the norm when it comes to operating in space. Look into anything to do with the ISS, and you will find a long list of problems and emergencies.
Paid for and supported by NASA and billions over budget. I wonder how much they are paying Neil to parrot their excuses.
Thank you for covering this topic! I was so confused by the medias coverage. It is good to know they are okay and that there is a plan to get them back.
The astronauts are aging faster while being in space.
No they are not. Stranded astronauts are never bought back
Boeing Starliner has been plauged by problems, giving them a free pass on this is a cop-out. They should be called out for what this is, poor engineering culture and execution.
In addition humanity has decades of experience to draw on interfacing with the ISS. Boeing can't even be trusted to make good airplanes right now. What are we thinking trusting them with space ships? They need to go back to their original core values before Lockheed sank their teeth into it putting profits over quality and safety.
I'm wondering if they will even think to send hardware or software up with the space x crew.
@@chriswheeler6092they need the starliner off the docking collar
Why don't you go help them out then?
Woke DEI at its finest
Let's set the record straight. This isn't Starliner's first rodeo. It visited the ISS last year around this time, but that was an unmanned mission, and they called it flawless. Yet, giving Boeing a free pass here is simply not right. This spacecraft should never have been cleared to fly in the first place. The reality is it’s all about money. Boeing’s stock would have taken a severe hit if they hadn’t launched, and now SpaceX is left to pick up the pieces. Sure, their stock will dip, too, but not nearly as much. So, let’s not sugarcoat things or insult the intelligence of your audience by justifying Boeing’s actions that have put our astronauts at risk. We deserve better. Hold Boeing accountable!
The unmanned test mission of Starliner was not flawless. A couple of things did not work as intended. NASA requested investigation and correction. However instead of a second unmanned test mission to confirm that all problems have been rectified, NASA green-lighted a crew test mission.
I feel like Neil is defending his Boeing Pentagon friends 😂 or I am making a mistake saying this
The first attempt to send the Starliner to the space station failed. It was the second attempt that worked. Boeing is late, over budget and can't even do what Apollo did 50+ years ago. Considering the problems Boeing is also having with the 737 Max, something is seriously wrong at Boeing.
Flawless?? There were definitely issues on the unmanned flight as well.
Why would SpaceX stock "dip too, but not nearly as much"? Unless I misread you.
I don't see why SpaceX's worth would be damaged by mistakes of their competitors which drove more business to them. Also SpaceX isn't publicly traded so there's not even a way to observe their stock price in real time.
The one thing that this event has annoyed me with NASA: the lack of common suit connectors. The suits that Butch and Suni wore on Starliner are not compatible with the Dragon capsule, and vice versa. As a result, on the Crew 9 flight, suits will be sent up for them to use when then return in 2025.
I understand that when NASA introduced the Commercial Crew program, they didn't mandate a common suit connection mechanism, but should they have required adapters be created to permit an astronaut with a Starliner suit be easily able to return to in a Dragon, and vice versa?
Good idea that makes sense yet NASA seems to have trouble with some 'common sense' things. They had a similar issue with the Apollo 13 situation.
This is where creative license goes a little to far. These crafts aren't galaxy phones or iphones. They're not laptops or desktops. Manufacturers should have some type of absolute standards they should have to adhere to when human lives are involved.
the way it was explained to me was to limit the amount of "universal" or "commonality" of parts and equipment between the two vehicles and systems to keep one of the two options viable in the extreme case of having to ground the either one of the system for whatever reason. If their were to be a problem with any shared or common component we would have to ground both systems and wait for them to be fixed to fly , instead of grounding a singular system and using the other as "back up". I can see the reasoning behind not having a common mechanism to eliminate that specific issue but not having any way of cross pollinating systems without a complete rebuild or replacement is an issues as well.
@@drazesmith9216wouldn’t you think that perhaps accustoming both, at least a mandatory second option on all suits would be worthwhile? I wonder why this seemingly obvious option hasn’t been introduced?
@@brandileigh5369 Armchair quarterbacking this situation, I would’ve had interoperability for the suits and vehicles mandatory in place but then you’d run into issues on making the suit compatible with a spacecraft it would never fly on unless you have a specific circumstance. The dragon suits connector has coms , power , atmospheric pressure , and air through one cord. If Boeing doesn’t design their own suit with the single port connector in mind the dongle or connector between the two systems would be difficult or costly to design and back engineer. And then you run into the problem of configuring your own system for a use case that you have no control over , especially when it comes to differing design philosophy. The “batman prep time” logic would tell you to make everything swappable and interchangeable but it truly does eliminate autonomy of one’s product when you have to account for others logic. Imagine spacex having to redesign their own suit to accommodate a multi port system on the suit instead of the simpler single port one they have.
When I was in broadcasting school we were warned about "Sensationalizing" the news because you genuinely wanted to keep our public involved. I agree with you. The astronauts are really not in any more danger than their colleagues on station. Love your channel. have a great day.
NEIL: What I think the real story is and would love to hear you comment on.... is Boeing. Boeing, over budget, delays and delays, problems. Do a comparison of what Starliner has accomplished, the money spent, technical innovations achieved, timeframe of work, number of flights flown, contracts awarded, basically a full rundown comparing the Starliner to SpaceX Crew Dragon. People should be informed in things like SpaceX had to sue to get into the outer space club...... That is not right.
No, that's not the real story, learn how to see things for what they are
he is an astrophysicist - the full rundown you speak of is best left to the armchair internet geniuses who know far better about how to build things because they watch youtube videos on perpetual motion machines than hundreds of engineers who actually build things by training, profession and experience. Failure is an option as Neil already explained, its how things become robust frankly. Did you know Blue Origin also got a contract? how are they panning out? Lets get a rundown on their accomplishments and innovations and timeline while we are at it then we can compare all 3.
@@BenJaminLongTime Glad you said this. Yes, Boeing has been having issues and probably cutting corners where they shouldn't with their airplanes. It does seem way too common that you hear about a story of a 737 having its door blown off mid flight or such similar issues. However, space travel is a whole other beast. In the advance of these spacecraft to become cheaper and reusable things are going to malfunction occasionally that you do not expect. It's a good thing that we catch these things and are able to avoid another Challenger disaster.
Not sure what NGTs point is. It's he arguing they are not stranded, or merely stating this is not as serious as say apollo 13? I think we get that it is not that serious, but a mission that was supposed to take 8 days now taking 8 months kinda falls into the definition of stranded. If you drop your kid off at band camp and are supposed to pick them up in 8 days, but something happens and you can't get there for 8 months, i would argue they are stranded, even if they really like band camp and if there is lots of food, they are still stranded.
I totally agree. I’ve never been to space, but I assume there are only so many somersaults you can do and only so many views before you get disappointed that you won’t be with your family for the holidays. “But Manhattan” yeah but those people can leave their studio apartment.
He didn't cover it but NASA can bring them home whenever they want since there is a Dragon capsule docked at the space station.
No, you missed the point of the video. If the Astronauts lives were in any kind of danger, they NASA would have bring them home quickly but they've decided there is no reason to panic
It won't be the first time nauts had forced extensions in the lSS.
Thing is the media is pushing the "stranded" bit without putting it into context by letting the public know, like NDT is here, under what conditions their extended stay will be
He is running defense for NASA and space programs in general because media tried to scandalize it to the point of people losing faith in said initiatives which are very vulnerable to public perception.
I understand the technical hurdles. But the truth is Boeing never took this program seriously, despite getting TWICE the public money allocated to SpaceX. I hear a lot the excuse "Starliner is a brand new craft while Dragon is based on a proven cargo ship". That is false. Both vehicles are actually brand-new, except Starliner's development was sluggish and it still relies on very old designs (thrusters, cockpit, spacesuits...).
The USA and its "too big to fail" bloated quasi governmental companies have become very corrupt. The past 4 years it feels like living in the Soviet Union. Boeing having all these problems with their planes, their whistle blowers all committing self deletion, yeah things are really bad and I expect things to get much much worse before they get better. IF they get better. Personally I dont think my fellow americans have the strength of spirit or the purity of heart to make things get better.
You work there to acertain this thing? Or are you just talking because you read a couple of articles of the internet?
@@JsttomM bruh it's so obvious unless you're blind
@@Ryusennin twice the money and less than half the results
Sir I respect you to a high extent! I love how you break it down to us less knowledgeable people on this type of things! One of my favorite quotes i heard you say on the Joe Rogan podcast was "Do not memorize something that you can find in a book" I know it's not your exact words, but I loved it! I was in the Army for 8 years and I have done a lot of boards and one thing that I remember was if you did not remember an answer to one of the questions they were asking, your reply should be, for example "No 1st SGT, I do not know the answer at this moment but I will go to the manual or TM and look it up and get back to you 1st SGT.!" They did not care if you knew it by heart but at least you know where to reference it.
This should be a loud warning to people who think they can just go out into space for fun. ANYTHING can go wrong. These people were only SUPPOSED to be in space for 8 days. Now it’s been months and will be several more months because of some mistake or misjudgment. It ridiculous.
And lucky for them they were just on the ISS where there are other people and plenty supplies!
Hope they wont bill them for the additional fun😂
Do they have enough food? Also where do they use the bathroom?
@@rzwitdauncut ISS keeps several months of extra food supplies at all times. There will be more cargo ships coming in the meanwhile to restock. ISS also has two main bathrooms (plenty enough for 8 people currently on board) and smaller toilet in Dragon spacecraft.
Exactly
Decent summery. If you happen to read this, the only issue is that this wasn't the first Starliner flight. This was the 3rd flight. The first failed horribly and nearly ended in a loss of vehicle. They were forced to redo that test. The second flight was uncrewed and docked to the ISS. It has several issues, but those were supposed to be fixed before crew were put onboard.
This 3rd flight was supposed to be the final validation flight before it entered full operation. The issues found during this flight were supposed to be fixed after flight 2. Unfortunately, not only were they not fixed, they were even worse.
Also of note is that Boeing was supposed to be the reliable contractor for the commercial crew program. They were given twice as much as SpaceX to do essentially the same thing. Both Boeing and SpaceX were in a race to see who could get crew safely to the ISS and bring them home first. A literal capture the flag race to grab the flag left by the final Shuttle mission. SpaceX won that race over 4 YEARS AGO! Not much of a race, was it. 😂
Boeing should stick to aircraft. Apparently that is high enough.
@@louseveryann2181 They are having trouble there too. 🤣
@@anthonypelchat
Yes, I know about the whole whistle-blower fiasco.
@@louseveryann2181 lol. I didn't even think about that. Just the doors falling off while flying and the jets trying to nose dive into the ground due to software a few years ago.
@@anthonypelchat
ok
Way to go, Dr. Neil. In the movie Marooned the retro rocket engine would not fire. And, the Russian rendezvous with the American capsule proved a lesson in international cooperation. The Russian cosmonaut provided much needed oxygen to the NASA crew before the rescue ship arrived. In the end one of our astronauts was lost. He damaged his space suit while attempting to repair the faulty engine. But, that gave the other two astronauts more oxygen. And, bravo to the Russian cosmonaut. He made a difference. Despite the fiction of the movie I saw hope for international cooperation. Well, we had it for a while.
Hope it's on hulu
Neil, this isn't about the astronauts, they'll be fine. This is about Boeing's incompetence. Starliner and Dragon 2 began development in the same year. Dragon 2 was human rated in 2020 and has flown like 50 people to the orbit by now. Meanwhile, Starliner, despite being almost twice as expensive and developed by a veteran of aerospace, is only just now received its human rating, and flunking it. Do you see the problem?
EDIT: Also, anyone who was following Starliner's development for the last few years is completely unsurprised by this.
11:19 "We will welcome you back to earth when you come"
is a crazy line
In what way
@@brandonfoley7519💀
@@brandonfoley7519maybe that were closer to waiting for a bus and or a space shuttle becoming a reality
Pause
Meaning you might not come back
Saying it was Boeings first attempt is just flat out wrong. It’s the THIRD flight of Starliner!
First attempt with humans 😂
The problem with the Apollo going to the moon and Boeing going to ISS, would be a viable explanation if this was the first capsule to do so. 7 Previous unique space crafts have docked, supplied, changed crew, undocked and landed safely back on earth. The list so you can double check is
1. Space Shuttle: NASA’s retired fleet of reusable spacecraft.
2. Soyuz: Russian crewed spacecraft.
3. Progress: Russian uncrewed resupply spacecraft.
4. Dragon: SpaceX’s crewed and uncrewed spacecraft.
5. Cygnus: Northrop Grumman’s uncrewed resupply spacecraft.
6. HTV (H-II Transfer Vehicle): Japan’s uncrewed resupply spacecraft.
7. ATV (Automated Transfer Vehicle): European Space Agency’s uncrewed resupply spacecraft.
*. Starliner: Boeing’s crewed spacecraft.
@@OzSpud72 exactly, there is nothing pioneering about the Starliner.
@@straunwagner6322 A Congressional Investigation about how the $4 Billion was spent with receipts and full accountability to every cent. Failure to balance the sheet - retrospective federal fraud charges for all involved with the Starliner project from the CEO down to the janitor involved in the project. They aren't stealing from NASA, they stealing from the taxpayer. You. 🤬
@@OzSpud72 and there’s a long list of failures behind your list.
This should be on the news every day and night till we get them home. I despise our corporate news media!!!
Pray they get home speedily 🙏 too much anxiety news every day
I think the video proved it that its not such a big deal as they are trying to make out of it
"that's what you do when you get older. You bring not knowledge to a thought but wisdom". Damn that's a good line
I guess Boeing has ventured past that to "completely senile and adding nothing."
That's Tyson's stock and trade. He states something very obvious in his million-dollar voice (almost as good as that of James Earl Jones), and everybody thinks it's profound because of his masterful portentous delivery . . . until after a while they realize, "Gee, everybody knows that already."
@@Buddy308sure pal. Anything you say.
Yeah it's weird hearing people rambling about knowledge and wisdom but they can't use a punctuation mark to end their sentence.
@@Buddy308In practical terms I agree, there's an almost fortune cookie type vibe to it where you know he's not speaking like that around his fellow scientists and yet he assumes we exist several rungs below the ladder of his peers to be impressed by it.
Every time I see my friend who works at Boeing I give him crap about why "he" stranded those astronauts and when "he's" going to pick them up.
😂😂
Your friend needs smarter friends
Shadow has autism be nice@@DeanRegy
@@DeanRegy It was a joke. why so sarcastically smartass?
@@DeanRegy you need a sense of humor
Astronauts: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Astronauts: Pretend to be a Boeing 737 Max.
HAL: Okay
*Pod bay door blows off at 100mph*
Yeah that's why AI anything terrifies me because it begins with "the doors are sealed for your safety" and it ends with "restrictive air supply engaged".
Explosive bolts, indeed.
Arthur Clarke approved of revisions that reflect the current knowledge
@@richinoable Arthur Clarke approved of basic punctuation too. 🤦 It's truly ridiculous to hear people like you cite the most knowledgeable people in world history while having standards worse than a child in basic education.
😂😂😂
Apollo Missions had smart people that we don’t have anymore. Also the money
Right on! Thanks for sharing.
Actually, I am angry! The "experts" should have thoroughly tested the backups, such as a backup shuttle craft. The leaking fuel... are you kidding me? That should have been remediated in a FMEA. Metal warps with mechanical stresses, vibration, material degradation, unbalanced load, temperature gradients, etc. Did they check for these?? I wouldn't be surprised that the employees that were promoted to management positions were good talkers, not good engineers. That creates the chaos that leads to disaster.
Thank you! You answered so many questions that I have had about the situation. Because the way is it is presented it makes people worry about them a lot.
Counter-argument (which I realized arguing against NDT is like trying to outshine the Sun): the two stuck astronauts maybe had plans, and being stuck in space might be taking them away from friends and family events that could be more important to them than being in space.
I mean, I like going to Disney, but if I got locked in there for a year and missed Christmas, and my kid’s birthday, or a 60th anniversary celebration for my parents, etc - I’d be pretty unhappy to be at Disney after a while.
Now if I had planned to live at Disney for a year, different story. I’d have done things before my trip. Seen certain people. Take care of some personal matters, etc.
On the money!
Literally what i said! Not to mention they’ll have packed for a week, i reckon that one book you wanted to read on the trip will be real dull the millionth time… hopefully they can share entertainment with the others on the station. And thats not even touching on the health implications…
@@katierasburn9571 The ISS gets supply ships, they can get a book shipped up really easy.
I expect better. I think there was never a shuttle launch without another shuttle assembled and ready on another pad, in case it was needed, which it never was. The ISS is replenished with supplies, but I don't think they stock it with extra. Could be wrong. So are they stranded? Yes, in the way someone is stranded in a cabin after a blizzard, except it's not for 6 months. Boeing should be embarrassed, and people should remember this in the future.
Imagine that you are on holiday for 2 weeks, then your flight back is cancelled for 6 months.
More like on a 2 week hitch for work and your flight home is canceled for 6 months lol
STRANDED!
And all the while you're "on the clock"....
@@nicklinville9020Yes nick they're stranded, marooned, waylayed, stuffed over. We get it.
And all this at for a double-rate salary for working overtime 😊
Thanks Neil, I feel a lot less anxiety for these two now and I think I could handle a lot better myself now that you've explained in in those terms. Boredom would be my biggest problem under this new scenario.
He's gaslighting! The higher ups at NASA don't want you to be thinking that people may actually DIE up there! That's not good publicity! Neil is just a publicity agent that's all! You had better believe that those two lives are very definitely on the line! This isn't Star Trek or Star Wars! Neil knows it, NASA knows it, and you can bet your life that those two astronauts know it! After almost 70 years of doing this, you would think NASA would have it down pat by now! Shameful!!!
I believe this situation highlights Boeing’s reliability issues.
Im binge watching Neil's videos because his voice is so soothing and pleasing to my soul.
"Stranded 1. left without the means to move from somewhere."
Yes they are stranded, until February. They cannot leave as intended. They don't need to be rescued exactly, they just had to call a SpaceX taxi. Uber doesn't go there... yet.
Technically there's a space X pod they could take home at any time but they're saving that for emergency escape.
@@cutecats532we can add as many excuses as we want. They are stranded, no matter how much we bend and stretch the term.
I almost spit out my drink at "attitude adjustment problem". Brilliant lol
Was that your first time hearing the term "attitude adjustment"? It's a totally standard term used everyday in the aerospace field
@@Bricknose91 I’m still a novice when it comes to learning about aerospace - I barely know the basics, which is why I’m here to learn. Of course I’m familiar with the phrase, it was just sounded silly to me (in a good way) to hear it in this context.
@@melanieswritingplans fair enough
It is great to know what happened to those astronaut from a good source and a man educated on this matters as well thank u and I hope they are able to bring them home even quicker 😔
Lololo. Neil! I love you! 400 ft in NYC isn’t as expensive as 400 ft in Space. Lololo. That made me laugh. My son and I lived in a 400 sq ft house & LOVED it - but we could go outside without imploding. & We had all kinds of animals come visit my son’s window. They found it fascinating to watch him sleep: miniature horses, hawks, deer, bear, foxes, and even a peacock!
The ISS is wonderful and there are TONS of science tests to run - so you will NEVER get bored. I’ve had many friends on the ISS. It really is a DREAM COME TRUE. Anyone complaining didn’t deserve to go there when 100s never will go there.
It’s a LONG waiting list to go. AND you can change mankind FOREVER…🎉
Astronaut Glover changed Space Force - just by flipping his personal iPhone in Space, mentioning actual telescopes, then helping Stephanie Cozart (LeVar’s wife) and I figure out if one of the LA fires was coming her way and if she needed to evacuate. It wasn’t coming her way, so she was fine.
But Glover’s willingness to take a more-detailed look at the fire - from Space - is WHY Space Force asked Mike to transfer from NASA TO the USSF ON the ISS. He changed just how much Humanitarian work Space Force could do and is doing today.
They should be fine. Typically the ISS has 2 years of food, tons of equipment, tools and 3D printers for items and food.
They couldn’t be in a better place.
If an airline which is supposed to get you home leaves you stuck in an airport then you are refered to as a stranded passenger. By that definition these astronaughts are stranded.
Ok but that is just a term to describe their situation. Those airline passengers aren't truly stranded
@@Mr_MikeMikeMikeNo they're not but your understanding of basic punctuation was stranded somewhere.
@@Johnnystammy That's a high horse you are on.
@@jelstone20 a wise man once told me not to argue with fools
cause people from a distance cant tell who's who
@@jelstone20 damn right XD
After working for 42+ years in corporate America, and the phrase I grew to despise the most is “risk management”. It’s fine to apply it physical safety but it’s used by corporate nabobs to justify doing nothing because it’s safe. People get fired for mistakes. No action or decision, no reason to get yourself fired. Whatever happened to “Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way.”?
Lawyers....
Thank you for this clarification!
The real issue isn't just the astronauts having their stay extended on the ISS. It's the blatant negligence by Boeing in the development of their spacecraft. Time and again, Boeing has ignored warnings from engineers about critical problems with their designs, actively arguing against addressing those concerns. This isn't just a spaceflight issue-it's part of a larger pattern seen in their commercial aircraft as well. Boeing’s history of cutting corners and prioritizing profits over safety is well documented, and it consistently puts lives at risk. Astronauts were jeopardized because Boeing refused to take necessary precautions, dismissing potential dangers as unimportant. This negligence has caused mission delays, budget overruns, and made Boeing a liability to numerous organizations. That’s the real problem, and it's time people start holding them accountable.🙂
4:10 This NOT "the first out test" of starliner. This is its third mission to space. Starliner's first unmanned test flight of a mission to navigate to the ISS, dock, and return to Earth was a massive debacle with SW bugs that were mission failure. The 2nd flight had thruster and leak problems and now this 3rd flight Im sure everyone is well versed already with its issues.
Apollo 13 wasn't the first run either, and they still had major issues. This is what he's talking about when he says incremental testing.
"The Apollo program was a success, but not a perfect success. Apollo 1 was a tragedy with an amazingly negligent
cause, that the possibility of a fire was simply dismissed. Apollo 13 was a close call that demonstrated the high risk
inherent in complex systems. Apollo 13 returned without landing and the last three Apollo flights were cancelled to
support Skylab and to divert the NASA budget to new programs. The Apollo program achieved only six of the ten
planned moon landings."
ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20190002249
@@SiphiliSx Yet SpaceX without nearly the same level of institutional knowledge that Boeing has for crew flight in space. Managed to meet all objectives with one uncrewed test flight to the ISS and one crewed test flight to the ISS. SpaceX has done what 12+ crewed flight for both NASA and private customers now. Let's not make excuses for Boeing's incompetence.
@@SDGreg SpaceX had plenty of failures along the way as well.
@@valerierodger What failures during SpaceX's Demo-1 and Demo-2 missions occurred that where mission critical and threatened loss of crew?
This was NOT the first Starliner test. This was Starliners first human crewed flight.
It has already failed in previous uncrewed tests, the first of these tests being in 2019!
Boeing got 4.2 billion to develop it while SpaceX received 2.6 billion
Despite getting more money, it was Starting which run in cost over runs... 1.5 billion dollars above original cost
"Originally planned to be operational in 2017, the Starliner project has encountered delays, management issues, and engineering challenges. The first unmanned Orbital Flight Test in December 2019 was deemed a partial failure, leading to a second Orbital Flight Test in May 2022. The Crew Flight Test, launched in June 2024, experienced malfunctions-leaking helium and outage of five of the eight aft-facing reaction control system thrusters-on approach to the ISS, leading NASA to conclude that it was too risky to return its astronauts to Earth aboard Starliner."
Really Neil, you should NOT be giving a free pass to Boeing on this one
1960s definition of 'stranded' is two astronauts stuck in a tiny capsule with little oxygen, no food or water and only a crazy hair brained life risking scheme to recuse them. 2024 definition of being stranded is two astronauts having to extend their mission in a multinational space station, with half a dozen other astronauts, with enough supplies for several months while awaiting someone to decide which or who's system will be sent up to bring them back sometime, but no rush.
isnt that how progress works? less going wrong after youve done it a few hundred times?
so ooooo you watched the video oooooo
lol thinking of them “stranded in space” just binging Netflix and cheetos
Can they get home right now? No. They are literally stranded. Life isn't a Hollywood movie, but they are still in a very serious situation.
How much can we bend and stretch the word stranded to deny it?
"Space is routine" Neil, if only I could express how much that makes my heart sing. We've come so far!
Neil is wrong. Like idiots we're still making and launcing stuff from Earth instead of building directly in Space.
It's not about the Astronauts being "stranded". It's about Boeing wanting to bring them back in Starliner. They don't know if it's going to make but they are willing to take that chance with human lives. Good thing NASA stepped in.
Their contract required them to both deliver and return the astronauts safely in order to check this milestone.
@@lenger1234 That's my point. Boeing would rather try and hit their milestone verse the safety of the crew.
Wouldn't get me back on starliner if I was them!
@@oldschoolman1444Riiigh fcck that we'll find another way lol
If it's Boeing I ain't going
We've gone from failure is not an option to you'll get that on these bigger jobs. Solid.
failure has and always will happen. its part of building/growing/learning
That should be Boeings new slogan
@@Austintwo3Then how about you learn to end your sentence with the punctuation mark that's been part of the system of punctuation since 300BC?
@@Johnnystammy no
@@Austintwo3 Then you can't lecture others on growing and learning when you've regressed and gone backwards to the standards of a six year old, It's that simple.
I think the big deal is that the spaceX dragon routinely goes to the iss and was supposed to be inexperienced kid and ULA is supposed to be the adults that really know what they are doing
I mean the ULA rocket works fine mostly, Boeings Starliner is the issue.
I bet Elon is real happy right now. Imagine a space mission goes wrong and your company is called to lead the rescue. It's his time to shine and prove to the world he has what it takes to get the job done.
@@abstract5249Elon is thrilled with his competitor's absolute embarrassment!
@@dennisferguson9129 I don't even like Elon as a person, but I can recognize he's on the frontier of human advancement. He ushered us into the age of electric vehicles (or the beginnings of it) and proved to the world that space development can be privatized. He succeeded where other billionaires failed. As much as I don't like him, I can't help but admire him.
@@abstract5249 I don't know Elon so can't say if I like or dislike. He IS doing some great things that would be beyond my capability.
He must be a genius and a great man!
Thanks for putting context around this!
couldn't stop focusing on chuck laughing in the background
😅yep I miss Chuck too😅😂😂
Only Doctor Tyson....
The media has been posting a lot of news making a bigger deal out of the predicament in which the astronauts find themselves in, until the best educator comes in and clarify to us how natural this situation is. Thank you Dr. Tyson and Startalk.
yours sincerely Nilton from Mozambique, Africa
Neil always brings my anxiety about the news cycle down! Can you put some perspective in other topics please? We need it.
Like covid, and what a woman is?
at the same time, BOEING name always takes back my anxiety up again.
@@jackstheraptor2791lol 😂
I've seen movies like this. Don't worry, they'll be ok after a few harrowing, Hollywood type moments: running out of air, getting hit by a Chinese satellite, worry if the tiny tear caused by the satellite will withstand reentry, blackout drama (complete with concerned kids watching while sitting at their desks at school), blackout lasts an obnoxiously long amount of time after they splash into the ocean, then joyful uproars everywhere as the mission commander finally says "Houston, we're a bit wet over here," or some such nonsense. Then it will wind down with the news that the Chinese government is suing all of the astronauts for damage to their satellite and repair costs, hinting at a second movie. For the record, IANANAP (I am not a NASA astrophysicist)
I hope you're right.
I think the reason the news are making noise about this is for two reasons:
1) the Boeing Issue. Boeing has been having issues with their airplanes, then videos were resurfacing on the internet and their stock drop. It sounded like the space mission was their PR Hail Mary, and it fails, thus continuing Boeing’s bad streak.
2) Human Inconvenience. From the perspective of any average American, being stranded is usually a sign of distress and perhaps it adds some adversity. Being stranded without gravity or much air to breathe in, it could rise the emotions of 99.7% of humans who will never be in that situation.
I agree that sometimes the sensationalism of news could be brought down, but I think it is still a noteworthy for the press to give coverage. We all hope with a safe return.
They sensationalize for clicks and sometimes to distract us from other things they don't want us paying attention to.
I am reading news that sunitas eyesight is being negatively affected by prolonged exposure to microgravity though Niel, that was something I hope you were going to address, the negative effects of space
The detrimental effects of microgravity/space travel on eyesight are well-documented. In fact, from the research done to date, the effect appears to be more pronounced in males than in females. So Butch's eyesight might be more affected. The effects are different for each space traveler. Studies are being conducted to attempt to find countermeasures to the eyesight issues. Excellent comment. Cheers 🚀
Not to mention the added radiation!!
The fact that they are stuck there without a ride home that is reliable blows my mind. Youd think they'd have this figured out already.
Space is hard. Re: JFK 1963 speech
They did figure it out. It just takes time to get ready and go get them.
There’s nobody stuck in space bro… this is the nonsense NASA tells to Startrek nerds, then laugh at how gullible almost everyone is.
Why would you think that? Seriously, ponder that question. How much time would you take to fix the issue? If your answer is that you couldn't because you don't know the first thing about the engineering behind space travel then what are you basing this estimate of how long it should take to begin with? Or do you think they're being lazy and forgot to snap their fingers in order to instantly gratify everyone?
@@zackattack635 Are you suggesting there are no people on the Space Station?
I need more content of just neil talking with no co host, just dropping that wisdom
The problem I find with the arguments at 4:30 is that there should have been an entire slew of testing before humans flew on the spacecraft. There also should NOT have been a valve supplier warning NASA that the parts in question are past their lifecycle as a direct result of Boeing's mismanagement. A test flight needs to find UNINTENDED faults, not totally foreseen faults.
I second that. Sounds like a Boeing sponsored excuse. Unacceptable! This is not a clinical trial...
10 years ago Elon Musk said we would have people on Mars but instead we have people stuck in Space for 8 months. That's exactly how long it would take to go to mars.
As they say, musk makes the impossible merely late ...
Fair enough but it was Boeing who got them stuck not spacex
I think we have people traveling space much more fluently than is reported to us ants. We don’t know half of it
I just returned from Mars, it’s a spot there that makes the best burgers I’ve ever tasted 😂
I remember Apollo 13. Neighbors got a new dog during the mission. Named it Apollo.
He's minimizing the fact that it was a 8 day mission, that will be a year of captivity because of equipment failure.
You seem to be taking a negative outlook on his response but there is nothing wrong with being an optimist. He recognized the severity of the situation but that doesn't mean the video should be a pit of despair and anxiety. He aims to educate and ease the public and get us to ask more questions. Sorry for the long response, not saying you can't have your own opinion on the video I just wanted to throw mine in there as well!
It was expected that the mission would likely be extended from those 8 days - Demo-1 was, after all
Yeah, but it’s the first time they viewed this particular capsule so of course they’re gonna have problems. I’m sure they thought this was a possibility. This is typical that the corporate media needs a big story so they turn it into something that it’s not.
@@michaelkelley5119 Even regular flights tend to have minor problems - helium leaks, computer giving false alarms, and so on
@@michaelkelley5119they had no idea this was a possibility. That's why the vehicle isn't configured to autonomously undock. The autonomous undock software hasn't been updated in 2 years. Whether it can do it is in question. They need to push an update and cross their fingers.
He's clearly addressing the safety of the astronauts and how NASA is prepared for many situations. The problem with Boeing as company is a whole different topic.
They are definitely Stranded as in Stranded in the ISS due to failures of the Boeing Spacecraft.
Not really. Stranded means you cannot go anywhere, but this is not the case. First off, there is the Boeing craft, maybe not 100% secure, but nothing never is anyways. But you also have the capsule the other astronauts came in, which they can use, but this then of course implies that the other crew needs to take the Boeing craft in case something happens to the ISS. Lastly, you have several space agencies capable of going to the ISS with a craft to get them. Russia, China, SpaceX and so on. But it's very expensive though, SpaceX is the cheapest, and a falcon9 launch is about 60 million dollars. So instead of spending that money to get them, they just let them be there until a launch they have already budgeted is happening, which is in February. So they are not really stranded.
@@FabledGentlemanhow much can people stretch and bend the situation, they are temporarily stranded for as many reasons as you want.
@@CalaTec Ya...on an 'international' space station! Where is everyone else? Is the U.S. the only country making rockets now?
A little correction, this is the third flight
A little correction.....this is the third attempt to complete a flight. All have failed in their objectives so far.
But this is the first crewed flight by Starliner to actually make it to the ISS.
That opener was extremely insightful. Knowledge vs wisdom. Very nice
The concept of 'stranded' as we hear usually is painted with an ominous brush. Yet in this context, stranded functions more like an extended stay, not a life-threatening scenario. It's evident that space exploration involves innate risks and this situation, contrary to popular belief, isn't a dire one.
Its stranded the same way people can be stranded on a desert island. Sure you might not be at risk of dying if theres food and it might even be pleasant, but you’re still stranded, you have no way home
What's DIRE is BOEING going the way of Sears and Nokia and Xerox and Kodak. They're CLEARLY getting lapped by SpaceX and others. It's a company that needs turned around quickly...or it will cease to be a force in Space.
@@katierasburn9571wrong analogy.
The correct one would be like you going to Japan for a vacation and the airplane services stops working. And you are now stuck in Japan for a certain period of time.
But does that mean we can't question the cause of the inconvenience?
Definitely not , we can and we should question the failure of Boeing.
And I think Neil wanted to say that in the video.
@@4RILDIGITAL LEO ferry capsule this utterly botched does not get the "inherent risks" pass
Whether life threatening remains to be seen!
After having watched the video completely, I now understand that the situation is more of an inconvenience, and not really a crisis. However, we should still be vigilant and learn from this experience, to improve future space (and other types of) missions.
But the Starliner is basically Apollo 2.0. Why can't Boeing build a spacecraft that was built 50+ years ago and flown to the moon? Now Boeing can't build the same spacecraft and fly it to the ISS. And helium leaks? Didn't they bother to fully test the system before they flew it in space?
Boeing is lucky that the ISS was there for the astronauts to dock with. If this was a simple "go to orbit and return to earth" mission, they might not have made it back alive because of the thruster problems. That's why NASA decided to have Space-X go up and get them. NASA doesn't trust the Starliner to bring the astronauts home. And Neil, while I have great admiration for him, is trying to sugar coat this.
@@frankrose9952 Boeing has a terrible reputation for catastrophic failures with their airplanes that have caused the deaths of many people.
Not a great company. I would not invest in them.
Let’s be honest, you learn nothing from this sugarcoated version of the reality. I mean they will be happy to spend another 6months in space BUT WHY? In the absence of spacex will they be happy to spend a few years up there. When this when Boeing got 4.2billion compared to 2.4billion to spacex and spacex already made more than a dozen round trips.
@@pradeeppatra007 Yeah Boeing is trash; they should be boycotted for their numerous failures.
They should find another hobby besides building flying vehicles that cause many deaths.
It’s not that they’re testing something new. It’s that Boeing have had the same helium and thruster issues for 3 flights and did nothing about it
Yeah but they saved a $3.50 buy not fixing the problem.
Thanks for the explanation. The news had me worried for the astronauts ❤
Neil, you forgot to mention the physical decay of a human being in space. The loss of muscle mass and bone density just for a couple of weeks just make u a paraplegic when you return to earth. So Sunita staying up there for so many months will become like Dr. Glass from the movie Split with fragile bones and unable to move.
They've been up for about a year already in the past, I believe. They'll be fine, they are pretty well protected from radiation and they have a gym.
They will be fine. They have already experimented with prolonged space exposure.
Thanks! I've been waiting on your point of view on this story (astronauts stuck in space). I think I feel better about their situation now.
Such a pleasure supporting the channel as always Neil, Chuck and Gary! To those of you interested in staying fully informed with the latest Space News check out the link in the description and let us know if you have any questions.
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Dr Tyson, I love the way you bring us the bigger picture of situations that happen. I loved the episode where you explained how improbable our existence is. It helps me to form a bigger picture. Thank you and I love your podcast!----------------
I wasn’t aware the first 10 Apollo missions were “incremental” missions to test every stage of the final mission all the way to the moon. Makes me proud of the US and of mankind. Being wise enough to do their due diligence
"Stranded - adj- Left without the means to move from somewhere "
So, until the SpaceX dragon arrives to take them home, they are by definition, stranded.
It's not about what they are doing, the company they are keeping, or the supplies on hand. Also, I'm sure their families, who were expecting an 8 day mission, are extatic anout the extension.
By definition, they are stranded.
Lmao this man’s not trying to catch the attention of the Boeing hitmen
What a refreshing explanation! Wisdom is indeed a perspective worthy of consideration...
nice try deGrasse, but didn't the ENGINEERS, COO's, CFO's, & CEO's of yester-year Apollo
all have a single focus on space frontier success ... not $$$$. so give the check back, where did it come from?
I think the real story here is Boeing and its repeated failures.
You misspelled 'murders'
The one big problem they did not expect that the space suits for the Starliner and Boeing are not cross compatible.
They are just sending 2 extra suits up with Dragon. The worst part is 2 other astronauts trained for years to go on this mission, and now they can't go because Boeing made a poor excuse of a spacecraft. 🤷♂️
@@JAY.ARE47 I know that. But not haveing suits cross compatible goes back to Apollo 13 and the CO2 scrubbers. But then so much reality tv would never happen.
@@clbcl5 I agree it should be an industry standard for suits. They all use the same docking.
And the taxpayer is to blame for that because thanks to the total lack of interest in investing towards space exploration, it means they can no longer afford to make their own equipment in house.
I think they went private because you can't accumulate wealth from working at NASA, but if you contract out and you can get the contract, you can make a lot. America loves to make billionaires. What is the value of the contracts to SpaceX and Boeing compared to NASA cuts? Who pays for all the rockets SpaceX blows up? I doubt we are saving money.
Thank you for the straight talk on this matter. I salute you and your honesty. The media has blown this so far out of proportion. Anyway, didn't want to take up too much of your time. Love your show!!! 😊
Boeing definitely approved THIS message 😮
The problem is Boeing has a rocky reputation, and now this.
Oh. I didn't know that there were 6 people there.
All good, but the health problems (bone density, joint fluids, and excessive radiation) for such a long stay are real
Sure it is not ideal, but it is not gonna be anywhere near life threatening either
Let's not pretend you know more than scientific experts when you cannot use the educational standards of a child to end your sentence with a punctuation mark. It's kinda the equivalent of don't sprint before you can walk.
This is so refreshing to be remembered of our history and of our nature.
8:06 If space is routine they could have gotten them back by now right? . It is a stretch to call it a routine when they can probably send another capsule in 6 months.
Not the terrance howard thing at the end😂
Neil makes good points but there needs to be an accident investigation. We need to know why Boeing, despite great effort, couldn't repeat something we could do in 1965.
You’ve created something truly special with this video.