🤩 Wow, i’m actually really honored you used my comment. Thanks a lot, Thor! Yes I will admit calling Force Awakens a “knife in the chest” probably sounded a little over dramatic from me but I’m glad you saw what I was getting at with the rest of the analogy. Sorry if it was a bit morbid. Yeah Star Wars is still very much alive. I myself have never been a huge fan of Star Wars but I am trying to learn more as a film critic and I’ve always found the debates amongst the Star Wars community interesting. I’ve agreed with a lot of your takes but I also really appreciate that you try to make these statements as politely and non-confrontationally as possible. Keep up the good content. 👍
The analogies can be morbid, can be based on fake stories, they're not to be taken literally, it's just a thought experiment. For me it couldn't be more perfect, you nailed it.
I concur,the 🐭missed a opportunity to introduce well written interesting characters and storylines and they blew it with an unplanned lazy retelling of the original trilogy,they literally have injured the Golden Goose during their tenure 🤔
@@achaudhari101 Shilling for Disney and whining about how most fans don't like what Disney is doing with the franchise is even more hilarious and just plain sad.
My memory from having seen Force Awakes at the time is that my friends really liked it, but I felt that something is missing and it felt "soulless".That feeling aged much better than the ones of my friends at the time.
It did seem like everyone else liked it, and I really wanted to like it too. I saw it three times. My opinion of it never changed. The last time I watched it, I knew I'd never watch it again. The only movie I've ever seen that just consistently gets worse from beginning to end. It has a promising start. By the end, they've made a joke out of Finn, and the entire story is driven by coincidence. Still, I'd hoped episode 8 could redeem it. Womp, womp.
@@giants8821 I used to be what can be called a casual Star Wars watcher and I'll try to fill in a little here. I enjoyed the TFA, it had pew pew laser fights, spaceships, ridiculous monsters and it was mostly presented in a way that I could shut of my mind and enjoy it. Mind you, I found even the original Star Wars ridiculous in many ways and never took them serious, they were mostly mindless fun for me. That said, even when mostly shutting my brain off, I still noticed some big flaws with TFA, but hoped part 8 and 9 would do better. It wasn't until after TLJ that I went back and analyzed TFA more carefully and realized the problems, which I had already noticed were big, were far more serious than I originally thought. I was also unaware of the mindboggling relay writing system and that the authors were just winging it, meaning I had no idea there was no plan for the future.
They easily could've taken us on a nostalgia trip without ripping off the originals. All they had to do was not ignore the original characters. How was that so hard?? 🤷♂️
For all its faults Jurassic world atleast gave us that nostalgia trip with the OG trio of Alan, Ellie and Malcolm. Too bad that wave nostalgia trip like movies didn’t occur before Star Wars force awakens
I actually thought Lucas cannibalized his own OT by having anakin win the war by knocking out the droid brain ship. don't get me wrong, it was definitely degrees of magnitude less direct than what Abrams did. but when I look at Lucas' history with "Death Stars," I count 4 of 6 movies obsessed with the stupid thing: ANH, RotJ, TPM, and AotC. 😄 (degrees of magnitude. I know it's just an easter egg in AotC and TPM is a parallel plot not an actual DS - still funny)
It was hard because JJ's characters weren't strong enough to stand up to the originals. The reason he didn't include Luke was because he tried and Luke ended up overshadowing his characters. He just didn't have characters strong enough to shine next to the originals.
@Crystalgate that just means he doesn't know how to write good characters, and they should've hired people who actually know how to write instead of relying on mystery boxes and nostalgia and relying on other people to answer the questions they created. 🙄
I see the sequel trilogy as the following: Force Awakens: older person hopping into a shiny restored car to enjoy a drive Last Jedi: car crash Rise of Skywalker: goes off a cliff
Rise of Skywalker would be parking the car in the garage and pretending it never crashed then having it ignite in your garage and burning your house down.
As horrifying as it is…that analogy fits. The force awakens was flawed. But it could have been salvaged. Instead Rian yanked out the knife and then Abrams stabbed it again. Just mistake following mistake. If someone just stopped and made a good decision it still had a chance. Absolute tragedy.
I got to say, that is a bang on analogy on the sequel trilogy. When people asked me what I thought of TFA when it came out I said, it really depends on what happens in the next movie because I wasn't totally sure about it (knife in chest). And of course the Last Jedi took all the interesting parts and destroyed it (took the knife out). I didn't even care about TROS because it didn't matter what they did, the trilogy was DOA.
@@achaudhari101 Lucas literally destroyed the Jedi Order and The Republic 10 years ago on screen before the the release of TFA. Why would you think it’s a good idea to do the same exact story again on screen? The books are irrelevant because they are for a niche audience.
In the EU the war with the empire wasn’t nearly as finished as return of the Jedi ending would have you believe. But instead of reshashing old ideas and making the characters worse, the EU books explored the characters further and even introduced new threats and creative ideas. Disney trilogies has no creative ideas or interesting characters.
It was more like Kathleen pulled out the knife, stabbed the guy a couple more times, then stuck it back in and blamed the patient for dying. Then, rather than losing her job she was given a raise and a promotion.
@@Scottadamsfan3481 Han was still Han though. we got to see him still be Han Solo. and whether you like it or not, he was always going to die. that was a stipulation for harrison ford doing the role, and honestly, that death was not in the top five of the major problems with that movie. han's death actually makes sense. and it was rian johnson who turned leia into marry poppins. her character wasn't irrevocably torched or altered abrams. iunno man. there are tons of dumb things in TFA, but I tend to agree with the original question/poster: rian johnson did the equivalent of yanking a barbed blade/tip out the way it came in, thus ensuring the victim dies.
@@daneg Han wasn't ruined because he died. He was ruined because he regressed back into his aloof smuggler persona. Rey even refers to him as such because apparently Han's smuggling was better known than his accomplishments as a general.
@@vetarlittorf1807 you're certainly entitled to your opinion. but that 'fact' isn't even on the board for the problems with TFA. the only problem with Han (minor compared to others of this ilk) is the fundamental problem with everything in TFA: nothing has a backstory. everything just happened and the whole movie is reactionary to stuff the audience isn't privy to. it's simply lazy writing. need the "good guys" to be under dogs? no problem. First Order now dominates half the galaxy and the New Republic seemingly doesn't care? So let's have Leia create a new rebellion. afraid to use Luke b/c once he appears, he'll be a deus ex machina? leave him out of the story completely. don't know how to get Rey out of a jam? latent force powers. Luke's lightsaber! how did you get that? nevermind. just take it. it's fate. the whole movie is either putting players in familiar places (which is ok. whatever. not terrible. not great but heavy on memberbarries - really bad in some places like a new death star). I don't actually see your point about han changing. the only gripe I have is splitting from leia over kylo ben. he wasn't any different of a character in TFA from the OT otherwise. and fuck! that's a good thing when you consider the changes made to luke off screen. iunno. man. I thought seeing han actually be HAN again was the one good thing about this movie. and that was mostly ford's charisma, imo. but it could have been abrams, as one thing he's very good at is memberberries.
Yoda said what he said to Anakin, specifically for Anakin. No, Yoda was not preaching some “Ding dong the witch is dead” celebration of death. He was trying to advise Anakin, to counsel him. And in these counseling sessions, Yoda peers into the minds of the Jedi who come to him (yes, with consent). He is literally telling Anakin things he needs to hear, though unfortunately the lesson would come too late.
@@GGBlaster Yep and what Yoda meant was we all die someday that should be accepted. Of course there is a difference between “we all die someday” and “kill people to make them one with the force”
I'll be honest, I was incredibly hyped about The Force Awakens. I'd avoided spoilers, and when the opening chords of John William's theme hit, I about squealed in my seat. BUT, this movie left me feeling incredibly flat. I remember it ending, and my first thought being "Was that it?" The only 2 times I got excited during it was that aforementioned opening theme and when the X-Wings came in over the lake. That was it. I didn't hate it. I wasn't fuming in my seat. I just felt so very underwhelmed the entire time. I have to say, this movie failed to get me excited about Star Wars again. It was Rogue One that gave me that excitement. It was the movie that made me remember why I love Star Wars. I left that movie thinking, "THAT is how you do it." Then I watched The Last Jedi, my faith renewed, and well.... yeah. Pretty much been down hill since.
7:20 the sith thrive on emotion but the strongest emotions are the ones closely tied with hate like grief is tied to sadness and sadness is close to hate so if a sith loses somebody or something important to them, they’ll be “stronger” because of it
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I was there in 2015 saying that TFA sucks and the sequel trilogy was doomed. Leaving aside making Rey OP, leaving aside the Marvel movie-like Whedonsnark dialogue, the one big disappointment is that of all the limitless creative possibilities we could have gotten from the prospect of a Star Wars sequel trilogy, all we got was a giant reset button and the same damn thing all over again. It genuinely makes me mad for what a waste it all was. All that money from Disney, all those options, and THAT’S IT????? That’s the best they could do? I feel like I could’ve written a better script than that, and I can’t write fiction to save my life, but apparently the kind of mediocrity we got is good enough for Hollywood these days.
I'd no real interest in seeing the film once I heard that Lucas had been uninvolved, but I'd honestly expected it to be fine. I was genuinely shocked as scene after scene just repeated the outline from A New Hope, with little variation. I felt, "Do they honestly think we're so dumb as to not notice what they're doing here?" And yet, it was generally praised at the time. It never made sense to me.
Copying the beats from New Hope was the right call - it’s like a poem, it rhymes- it’s Lucas’ style. Making Rey the poster girl for Mary-sue really hurt them (and stoked the toxic fandom flames) and making the OG heroes all failures, were the big let downs. I liked it enough- it just needed a sequel that made sense and went in some new directions. Luke wouldn’t have just given up - not would Han - they would be together chasing Kylo down - it’s not like he dropped out to be a beat poet- he became a fascist terrorist. Han and Luke wouldn’t let that just slide
I was so hopeful when I heard a new Star Wars trilogy was coming back during my high school days. Hearing that it’s in Disney’s hands and that nothing could go wrong or that they had definitely planned it out right? Flashback to now, coming up to 10 years later, I’ve never felt so disappointed for a franchise in my life. The first blood, that made me twitch and seeded the doubts in my head was when they killed off Han Solo, Rey winning against Kylo and seeing Luke for a few seconds after waiting for so many years… but the trust for Disney as cope made that go away at the time. Now it’s all gone.
@@odbade1999 Never understood why Ford hated and crapped on his beloved character so much. Without Han Solo, he probably wouldn't have had a career. He never would have been Indiana Jones.
@@SRMoore1178 fair, its just at the time, especially hearing George sold it someone he trusted i.e. Bob Iger BUT then hearing the drama later that Iger broke that trust, the feelings of fans like yourself and many others started to make sense now, it’s so sad we’re here.
Even if the Force Awakens played it a bit safe, it is far from a horrific death knell for the franchise. That film could have been a solid jumping off point, and it's the only one of the sequels that you can put on for decent "Star Wars" in the background. The only *true mystery box set up in the Episode 7 was Who Was Rey/Her Parents? Snoke was hyped up by fans, not the film itself; there was more about Snoke in his first appearance than Palpatine had in the first TWO Star Wars movies combined, but nobody calls the Emperor a "Mystery Box." My point is The Force Awakens was fine to even enjoyable, if a bit generic and nowhere near as disjointed as the following entires in the sequel trilogy.
You still had a bad world building for the sake to make New Hope 2.0 : New Republic being insignificant, Han and Leia broke off and were taken to their episode 4 roles, Luke being Yoda, so the main protagonist is still the only good force user in the movie.
From TFA: Han : He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.
I've been saying this forever, a major lesson from Star Wars is Learning to Let Go. If we look at the OT, Obiwan teaches Luke to follow his instincts and overcome his weaknesses. Yoda teaches Luke that death is a part of the cycle of life, and that we should let go of our fears to avoid falling into darkness. Vader shows Luke that people can change once they let go of thier power and selfishness. In the PT, Quigon explains to Obiwan to be patient and mindful of the situation at hand instead of preemptively acting. In AOTC We see Anakin's struggle to follow in the footsteps of Quigon and keeps his inner hatred hidden from Obiwan. His Obsession with power makes him confess to Padme that he is being held back and is treated like a child. Refusing to let go of his mothers destiny led him to massacering an entire Village. Refusing to let go of his lust leads to a secret marriage that he tries to hide. Lastly, Anakins downfall to the dark side is a result of refusing to let go of his fear of loosing Padme. To sum it up, George Lucas created Star Wars as a coming-of-age story, one of those messages being allowing yourslef to let go of any grudges, fears, anger, hate, and obsessions because they destroy you from inside.
@@MaxRamos8 Yep and the ironic is if Anakin listened to Yoda’s advice, Padme would have survived. We see at the end of the film her death was textbook self-fulfilling prophecy and by trying avoid the vision he caused it. As Yoda said in Empire “Always in motion, the Future is.”
"Well, maybe if you weren't such a horrible person, you wouldn't have been stabbed in the first place. It's your fault, not mine." -Disney if it were the EMS in that analogy
That's why the whole "This never would've happened if you had done this/not done that." is not a solid argument. It is assumed by nature that all circumstances are completely the same in every case or event and that it's impossible for unforseen outside factors to intervene, which is delusional to believe.
Funny thing is that wasn't original either. Atton rand was Also a soldier not just that a sith soldier that fought for darth Revan. Then he changed when a female Jedi changed him but he killed her. That lead him to fight alongside the Jedi exile.
i still don't think the story of Finn suits the ST. He could have been a side character sure or a better yet a Star Wars Story. But the ST should have been about the Skywalker lineage and overall Galaxy.
Finn should've been dead. Rey should've been dead. Kylo was trained by Luke Freaking Skywalker and Palatine via Snoke proxy. There is zero chance either of them could've held their own, let alone defeated him in a lightsaber duel in TFA. If we were just aping ANH and hitting all the same beats, this would've been a great time for Luke to intervene and save them like Ben Kenobi v Vader on the Death Star I.
Sadly TFA is the best out of the Sequels, but that's not saying much honestly. It is a hollow ripoff of New Hope that just doesn't expand on the lore and world building. The other movies don't really either. Now there are people who talk about how they like saw TFA and TLJ as individual films. That's fine, but when you look at the bigger picture in terms of them as part of a trilogy and part of a franchise you run into some big problems. Like how they kinda contradict each other or in terms of the established lore just don't fit at all and even contradicts it. Its very clear just watching all three there was no clear outline for a direction the continuation of the Star Wars story was going. Sure you can say, "Well that's what the books and comics are for, to fill in those gaps." Yeah that's fine, but when yiu you also look at the Sequels as just the movies themselves, they just don't tell a story that makes much sense, in terms of themselves and as Star Wars movies. Oh you will hear, "What about the Prequels?" Those films whether you like them or not actually did world and lore building and told stories you could follow and fit into Star Wars where you didn't need books and comics to help fill the gaps. And to "Star Wars is dying." I'd say that it's like a cancer patient who has gotten a new doctor that only cares about making money tries out different treatments that mostly been doing the patient more harm than good, just to make a buck.
When people tell you world building doesn’t matter, watch TFA. TFA problem is not that it didn’t expand on the lore, it’s that it, at best, reset it and worst outright broke it so that everything was going to be painted into a corner. It gets overlooked cause TLJ said hold my beer and somehow topped it. But It’s awful world building on its own and a clinic in how not to to do world building.
Yeah, I had a lot of issues with TFA, particularly how Han and Leia were handled, Kylo Ren being dark side for no raisin and wiping out the Jedi Order again (cause a new small Jedi Order was ripe for a diverse cast) and a lack of physics. But it had some interesting ideas like child soldiers and a small Imperial Remnant/terrorists to fight. They *could* have given Rey a backstory to explain her abilities (Luke's student/daughter who had had her memories repressed was my top theory cause why cast as girl that looked so much like Natalie Portman if you weren't going to make her related?) Luke could have been on the Island with a small group of students he had managed to rescue. We *could* have had a red headed woman there with him. TLJ just gave us the least satisfying answers it could to every question, and ignored all the set up from the previous film. You do *not* leave a map if you don't want to be found. Also, it's frickin space... you leave coordinates, not a map.. oy.
It’s bizarre. When I first saw the Force Awakens, I loved it. The mystery around Luke & Rey is what really pulled me in. Plus Finn and Poes friendship was cool. Only thing I didn’t like is how Han & Leia were divorced. They should have stayed together like in the Old EU. It’s a shame that Disney took the Sequels in a bad direction
When I first saw the film, and even when I knew about some of the rumors, and the poster confirmed it was gonna be a Iittle like New Hope, I still went in with an open mind. During the first act I was interested in the film, heck Iike the opening with the attack on the village, looked like Spielberg was directing. BB-8 won me over with his thumbs-up. Then came the scene with Starkiller base and it blew up 5 planets that were ridiculously close together and kinda perfectly in a line...that's when I was taken out of the film and it just got worse from there. Rey being cemented as a Mary Sue, them comparing the size of Starkiller base to the two Deathstars, like it was JJ telling Lucas he had bigger balls. The fact that the weakpoint was hexagon shaped. A trenchrun to the weakpoint. And Luke only showing up at the end for about a minute or so.
@@Deuteromis and don’t forget how we didn’t get a proper reunion with the classic characters. Even though I enjoyed the force awakens, that really ticked me off too. Or at least give us a flashback of them meeting each other again(in the Last Jedi). But nooooo, we gotta have Luke drinking disgusting green milk.
The bit with Luke in TFA reminds me a bit of Granny Weatherwax in Carpe Jugulum; the narration initially makes it sound like she's stormed off to be alone in this magically isolated place because she wasn't invited to the royal naming ceremony, but she was actually trying to figure out how to deal with the incoming Vampyres, and needed to be where they couldn't read her thoughts. It sounds like that could have been the idea for Luke; he's trying to figure out what to do with this new Dark Side problem that's once again turned a relative to evil.
Hey Thor just wanted to add that I myself really enjoyed the force awakens when it first came out and following that, my friends who are into Star Wars and i thought it was gonna be another great era, like when the clone wars were explored between 2003 to 2008, from the original Tartakovsky animation to the comics and Books, especially the Republic Commando series and the Dark Lord trilogy. Ithought after the force awakens their movies would try to be a blend of the hero's journey we see throughout the original trilogy, and the how big and imaginative the galaxy is that we see in the prequels. Imstead we ended up with an aimless scifi movie series with cheap young adult novel story beats, like all the movie series based on ya series in the 2010's. I think it shows that they were just trying to chase an audience they wanted and thought they could get,
The “mystery boxes” in the force awakens had no way to explain them sensibly or in a satisfying way. Why is there no new Jedi order? Where did the first order come from? Are they some fringe militant group or a well funded military power house choke-holding the galaxy? Why are Han, Leah, and Luke not taking responsibility for Ben? Why does the great love story end in separation and bad parenting? Why does no one other than the “new rebellion” care about the first order destroying all those planets? Why are the people on those planets not important enough to discuss? Why have we never heard of Maz before despite being alive during the other movies? I could keep going. It’s classic J.J., don’t think about it, don’t worry about painting yourself in a corner, just leave as many Chevkov’s guns around as possible and never fire a single one.
If rey had been luke and mara jades daughter, then he has to train her, it could have been great. If they explored Finn's story more, made him a badass stormtrooper,....it could have been great. If they made use if the original cast, as mentors and leaders of the new republic (with the young ones doing the running around having adventures) it could have been great. Instead they served up a mess and blamed everyone else. They actually damaged the original and prequel trilogy instead! They devalued and "dead ended" the whole story.
Maybe not. Had Luke become a New Jedi, it could have been an attempt to change the Jedi and move them into a different path that may be the correct one. The Jedi were flawed, and having them evolve could have been a good plot element.
I hated TFA from the beginning. 😬 Besides having all the OG characters regress and not being together, I was very disappointed in the First Order/ villains not being compelling. And having a third Death Star similar thing? By the time Poe was doing the final run, you knew †˙å† Star Killer base would've been destroyed. There was no tension. My expectations were lowered before TLJ came out, even lower with RoS. Now everything after the sequels have to explain things, that weren't talked about or made sense, which makes the overall timeline even worse.
@@patriciaa65 Same. The only villains I found interesting were the criminal factions because they were new in TFA and Snoke mostly because he was initially an interesting contrast to Palpatine (being more calm and collected instead of hammy and prone to violence) and being played by Andy Serkis who I enjoy as an actor.
Rian Jonson didnt pull the knife out. That would mean he had intentions do to a good thing. He twisted the knife, then took 3 other knifes, to stab into the patients chest, kicked him on the floor, picked up his camera to make a picture and claim he had made art
And anyone who wants to claim otherwise should listen to him in interviews about TLJ, he wanted people to hate it because he is a hack and knows the only way his movies would get *ANY* attention, would be to ruin them and get all the bad PR that came with. He is a genuine believer of “No such thing as bad publicity”.
I hate the "Mystery Box," and my reaction severe disappointment. It turned out that it would be the only Disney Star Wars movie that I would ever see: and, no, I have no plans to see Rogue One.
@@lukejochem Yes but the thing about force healing is it is a very situational power when most weapons cauterize instantly it isn’t very useful. Mon Mothma was also at the point he had to step down as Chief of State because even after the force healing (technically wasn’t even force healing just using the force to remove the nano-virus) she was already in too poor health to continue in that position.
Poe's Xwing will always have a special place in my heart. I tore apart and rebuilt that lego too many times to count while I was hospitalized with Leukemia.
@@prussianhill I have that as my first X-Wing and I still like even with the color scheme. I also kinda like the Quadjumper which I also own because of the loads of features.
@emberfist8347 I liked the color scheme honestly. Hearkens back to the days of WW1 with the bold color schemes. My only problem (the engines never staying attached aside) is that I would prefer an R2 slot over the BB8. But even then... so many good memories of tearing the set apart and rebuilding it. I was even transported once with the lego set (in the box) strapped to the gurney.
I liked episode 7, it was mostly a retread of a new hope but there was enough there to build off in a sequel. I think the big mistake of last Jedi (among a lot of things) was that it shouldn’t have tried “subverting expectations”.
To be fair to JJ Abrams, who I personally think is a hack, anyway, Disney/Lucasfilm refused to move the opening date of RoS even after wasting all the time hiring and firing Colin Trevorrow and looking for a replacement before finally twisting Abrams' arm to write and direct the movie, so JJ only had about a month to pull his script together before they had to start production on the film. Whatever bad things have happened with Star Wars, Disney has consistently made them worse by rushing almost every project they've put into production, starting with TFA.
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment. This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar. What do you think?
The revolution happened in the EU as well as a terror plot featuring an imperial douche that did effectively what just happened IRL with the pager incident at a garbage planet/droid factory.... That one was removed from Canon likely due to the politics of it before NJO.
The droid revolution already happened during the Old Republic Era Pre-KOTOR. Ion Weapons were developed specifically during the galaxy wide revolt of droids. The Galactic Republic then instituted a mandate that all droids needed to be memory wiped every so often to prevent another Droid Rebellion though it's been lax on enforcing that on private droid ownership. This Mandate is maintained through even the Galactic Empire and into the New Republic surviving even the Dark Age of the Republic. There has never been a full-scale Droid Rebellion since thanks to this mandate and the use of restraining bolts. The Galaxy at large has since been always on alert since and tends to quash any droid uprising fairly quickly. The GFFA is not overdue for a Droid Rebellion because it's already happened and everything we see take place after it.
I enjoyed the Force Awakens- it wasn’t perfect but it was fun and though it was a retread of familiar plots, there were some interesting mysteries. But that movie was dependent so much on the movies that came after it. Now, failed potential is the legacy the Force Awakens has.
Honestly, I didn't mind "Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015)." Actually, I think it's one of the better entries of the series. The film took some chances and it made me curious about "Star Wars" again. I thought it had a lot of sequel potential. It was an exciting time when it was released. I enjoyed seeing it in IMAX 3D, and writing a review of the film. I also had fun making a list of what appeared to be its numerous nods to horror films including "Phantasm (1979)," "Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981)," "The Exorcist (1973)," "Scanners (1981)" and "Deadly Friend (1986)." So that's what I think about when I see this film now, those good memories.
Actually TFA did a pretty good work setting a story up and given us questions to be answered. Problem is that the story wasnt planed out and that each director basicly did theyre own movie within the trilogy instead of building on what was before as they should. Instead the directors should had been given a set of characters and a series of plot points to follow or an end goql to reach. But the biggest issue was that the story was not coherent- That the characters changed to much with each movies.
I think TFA was well received initially because we were all just so excited for new Star Wars and the return of the OG heroes. That said, while structurally it's a fine film if removed entirely from the broader context of the series, the fact that it is a near beat for beat remake of ANH is indefensible. Disney could have hired nearly any writer / director combo it wanted to helm the next installment of THE epic of modern cinema, and we should have known things were headed in the wrong direction when it turned out they couldn't come up with a novel plotline. Episode 7 should have been about a civil war threatening to fracture the New Republic.
The analogy fits. When I saw TFA I realized it was a copy of A New Hope. I thought to myself: If this movie is a copy of ANH then I hope the next movie isn't a copy of The Empire Strikes Back. I like TLJ because it's the only movie in the sequel trilogy that isn't like the OT. JJ's ending for TFA doesn't work either. Han Solo dies and Luke sits around levitating rocks??????? There was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy, that's why it failed. I was not fooled by TFA when it came out. I will never understand why so many people liked that movie.
I really like the idea of Force Healing being a dark side power. Simply as it is alluring and tempting to want to be able to do that and that's what the dark side is like, but it's reckless because to get to that position you must first have failed to protect and avoid suffering, it encourages you to act violently rather than seek a peaceful resolution because you have that option to correct any damage done. The same if you could use the force to resurrect the dead, extend life forever, all dark side powers. Forcibly altering and shaping those around you with the force, that's the dark side. That's not to say the jedi couldn't use something that looks or works like force healing, stopping blood loss isn't strictly the same as magically repairing damage done, neither is soothing somebody in pain - it's similar to a mind trick, nor even holding together an injured body until it can get medical attention but I do think going as far as to alter the body with the force is a step beyond what the Jedi could reasonably do. They'd do everything they could to avoid that happening in the first place.
That reference with the knife makes sense.. I wanted the original casts back together to show where they ended up and as you say passing the torch on to the next generation would have been much better or even using some of the novels from the EU would have worked. Hint, hint Heir to the Empire....
l like your previous ideas on the aforementioned 🐭sequel trilogy,also The Critical Drinker had some great ideas on possible character backgrounds of Rey,Finn & Poe 🤔
Meh. They all need to go into the bin and start anew. They were terrible hamfist characters "Hey, let's have a girl! Hey, let's have a black guy!!!! Hey, let's have a White Guy who gets chastised by women every opportunity!" Those characters never truly had their own voice or purpose. They forgot to start with Archetypes and symbol and instead went with empty misguided wish fulfillment. Aka story Poison
There's nothing wrong with the mystery box approach as long as the box isn't empty. The subversion of expectations can be good too, if the contents are better, than expected.
I remember a scene in one of the EU books from the 90s where Luke was using force-healing on himself after a fight, so I never thought of it as a dark side ability.
There’s a lot they could’ve done to save the sequels, but it felt more to me like that scene in office space where they beat the printer. They just took turns beating Star Wars to death, and even as they walked off they couldn’t help but go back and beat it some more. That’s what JJ, KK and Ruin did.
One of the [many] problems that Star Wars created for itself is that it started taking things like "If you strike me down, I shalll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" very literally, confusing what death actually means in Star Wars. It's less "I will become part of something that supersedes mortal concerns" than "If Yoda's ghost can just call down lightning at will, why aren't more matters just left to these monumentally powerful, and presumably invincible, Force ghosts?"
The Last Jedi is my favorite of the sequel trilogy because I didn’t feel like I knew the exact beats the story would follow. It surprised me in a better way than say Han regressing in TFA or the fake out deaths of ROS.
Imagine if Disney just remade New Jedi Order series (possibly mixing it with Dark Nest) into the Sequel trilogy. That is what should be the sequels for me.
@@emberfist8347 Yes, these series weren't perfect (especially Dark Nest), but if we cut out the bad things, it would have the interesting story. Yuzhan Vong invasion would be a great status quo change and Disney Sequels have Han's and Leia's son as a villain. With the addition of original cast and new cast (even the Disney ones, each character other than Rey seemed interesting when being introduced) and the twist with Rey would made good sequel trilogy.
About the force healing: it could be that the Jedi were aware of the problem mentioned which is why they limited use and knowledgeof the technique to those that were capable of letting go.
@@markusbarten455 Legends gave the best explanation of Force Healing. It accelerates natural healing meaning it is very niche because lightsabers and blasters cauterize wounds on impact ergo you can’t heal them. So it is only useful for things you can’t fix with a bacta patch.
I saw the force awakens 3 times in theater. No shame at all. I was so excited and I actually liked the force awakens. Now when I watch it, it’s just sadness of what it could of become
Hey Thor, I think the sequels should’ve been about Luke trying to rebuild the Jedi whilst trying to help the new republic handle a fractured galaxy without the empire around to maintain order/control with many factions fighting for territory. The major villains could be the remnant of the empire and then the rise of the Mandolorians who once again become a major adversary to the republic and Jedi. There is a lot of room in Galaxy I’ve described for good fights between Luke and his padawans against either empire praetorians and/or mandolorians. There’s also easy/natural opportunities for Luke, Leah, and Han to be together but also have separate missions. Leah trying to rebuild the republic, Han leading the new republic forces, and Luke trying to train his padawans while negotiating with Leah and fighting with Han. Do you think my idea is better than what we got? What stories do you think could be told within the framework I’ve suggested?
Hey Thor Ok let’s examine the dark side, it does have force healing in its own sacrilegious way. It’s ripping the life force from other things to replenish yourself it is fufling the ultimate selfish desires of one person above all things around you. However the force is ultimately a life giving energy and already doesn’t want to be controlled like that in the first place by a darksider. Thus when using it in a such a debased way the healing is much less effective considering the amount of life energy you’d have to steal from other creatures. We can refer to the darth bane path of destruction to see the dark lords thoughts, he can stave off poisons for a time by killing a fathers son in front of him but to truly purge it he requires a healer. But remember class stabbing the knife back into your patients can still not be cured with the force and should not be tried at home
Force Awakens coulda been pretty darn good. Make the “Resistance” just the military of the New Republic. Push back Starkiller Base blowing up all the planets from end of act B to the very end of the movie when they’re attempting to blow it up so the hero’s lose out the gate to create a real threat that won’t go down as easy. MAKE REY LOSE obviously. Basic story telling. After Rey is defeated by Kylo have Luke fly overhead really low to the trees in his classic X-Wing, have him effortlessly deal with Kylo to show that “ya the new hero has a lot of work but her new teacher is more powerful than any of them” and have him rescue her and flee as the New Republic fleet in is disarray after the eradication of the heart of their government. Luke can bring her to that ocean planet I forget its name to train her while all the other main cast thinks she was either killed or captured on Starkiller base during the retreat to add more motivation for the other characters in the next movie to lead up to them being reunited after she’s had some real training.
When it comes to force healing I think it works both ways. Jedi's healing is based on the will to protect life, it uses body's natural abilities and enhances them. While sith's abilities is driven by rebelion against the natural order of things, selfish thinking to "things be my way".
the question of whether healing is dark side or light side could lead to an interesting debate on the nature of the force beyond the light and dark. Palpatine says the dark side leads to many abilities thought to be *unnatural*. Which kind of brings up the idea of are the two sides of the force also natural vs unnatural? What constitutes as "light side natural"? No one can naturally run too fast to be seen by the naked eye, but Obi Wan and Qui Gonn do it in Phantom Menace. And no one's going to say they're secretly dark side users.
I remember sitting in the back seat of the car after watching The Farce Awakens. Everyone was doing like you were saying...contemplating it, talking about things they liked, etc. I friggin' hated it from the start, haha! It was exactly what I hoped it wouldn't be, but was afraid it could be...another 'soft reboot'. A trend that had already made its rounds in Hollywood many times before, often at the overrated hands of one J.J. Abrams. It was, definitely, the beginning of the end for Star Wars. Am I a prophet? Could I see the future? No, I just know garbage when I see it 😂
Hey Thor: I once read that JJ wanted the EP7 Luke reveal to be like the rey scene we got in episode 9. Luke was supposed to be meditation, floating in the air while stones where swirling around him. Then Rian Johnson asked him to not do that. Let's imagine JJ would have went with his plan. How would that reshape episode 8 and Rians depiction or the options he had to paint Luke as an idiot?
Still not really a fan of TFA resetting the galaxy into basically Rebels VS Empire 2.0 and undoing progress from the OG trilogy. Of course, following movies could've tried improving it but we all know how that went.
@@achaudhari101 Not really. Now Dark Empire came out before many of the other EU novels we have now, but they fleshed out the capture of Coruscant and establishment of the New Republic, while they maintained a military instead of a “resistance”. Also, the Imperial remnant made more sense in this case. Honestly, for all the complaints people have with the prequels having too much scenes with politics, the sequels had practically none, and therefore gave no reason to care for the conflict at large and how it’ll affect the galaxy. If they existed in a vacuum, it might be fine, but it was a bad decision from a continuity perspective.
I saw it several times and was asking so many questions and got fully on the snoke theory train, but episode 8… watched that once and scratched my head and didn’t bother going deep at that point
Well... I wouldn't even term it a trilogy. More a collage: a collection of random thoughts taped together, with a little bit of Jackson Pollack thrown in.
Hey thor, i wanted to know what your thoughts are on the state of the canon EU compared to Legends EU. In particular, how well connected each story is to both the star wars universe and other stories in their respective EUs. As I've become more and more jaded with the way disney has handled star wars, I've delved more into the EU of legends and have found that a big aspect of these stories i enjoy is the connections and references to other stories within the EU. For example in rogue squadron the katana fleet is mentioned which was introduced earlier in the thrawn trilogy, Fest and the valley of the jedi levels within the dark forces games are later reintroduced in the jedi vs sith comic for the valley of the jedi and republic commando novel has omega squad have a mission on fest. I can't say i have had much experience in the eu of canon, but from what i have experienced, there is not many of those types of connections to be seen. As someone who has probably had more experience with both versions of the EU, I just want to know what you have seen in terms of how each story surrounds and binds together their respective EUs.
I don’t think The Force Awakens was a knife. It was a good film and I remember really enjoying it. It might be the last time I went to the cinema for a SW film and walked out really wanting to watch it again.
Me listening to this intro thinking “WTF is Thor on” 😂 only to hit the 1 minute 45 second mark* and be left thinking… “if that isn’t the greatest explanation of the sequel trilogy idk what is”
I like the analogy. While I found most of the Force Awakens was meh, I took considerable exception to the 'Starkiller Base' business. Planet destroying super weapons were an overused trope that needed to die, and it closed off so many opportunities to take the trilogy in fresh directions with a new Jedi and New republic
I agree, using the Force to heal the living isn't really a dark side ability. Using the Force to bring a dead person back to life sounds a lot darker to me, as it suggests the "healer" isn't able to let go.
I find the question about Force Healing being Dark Side very interesting, as it may fit better than the answer implied. Just because something seems to be almost only positive does not have to mean it is. Loving someone is similar in that way, a very personal connection, which when reciprocated is almost only positive, but still is something jedi should stay away from.
So Rian Johnson had his whole "your Snoke theory sucks" meme. However, if he was going to be provocative that way, he was writing a massive check. If he was telling me my theories about Snoke, and by extension the other mysteries from Episode VII suck, he was signing up to deliver something EVEN MORE AWESOME than I was imagining. When what I got was lame, that check bounced in a major way. Rise of Skywalker would have needed to be an 11/10 to rescue things, and the fact that it was even worse made the whole enterprise irredeemable.
I went to Star Wars Celebration in 2017 where they revealed The Last Jedi, and I'll never forget the overwhelming feeling of optimism that the movie was going to be good. People telling Rian Johnson, "we believe you'll knock it out the park!" And such as he talked to the fans that were pulling an all nighter in the line for the trailer. With The Force Awakens being good enough to look forward to a sequel, we all there wanted it to be good because in the back of our heads, we knew if the 2nd movie was bad, then there's no chance the 3rd would be good. The Last Jedi wasn't taking out the blade, it was the reentering of the blade, but pushing it further. Rise of Skywalker is just twisting the blade. I haven't seen the fandom on the same page like that since that day, and I still truly wonder what the Fandom landscape would be right now if The Last Jedi actually delivered...
The biggest problems I have with TFA are Finn and Han. They completely undue Han’s character arc in the OT just so that he “feels like Han.” Finn was an awesome character, a conflicted stormtrooper who is there to humanize stormtroopers… while also killing a ton of stormtroopers while saying “woo.” All of the mystery boxes is what ultimately killed the ST, there was no possible way to make a legitimate answer to ANY of JJ’s questions that would fit in the puzzle because the puzzle was originally created without answers (JJ’s speciality). While there’s issues with TLJ I will forever respect Rian Johnson for 1. Being a good filmmaker and 2. For providing answers that actually made sense to me and 3. Trying to deepen the lore rather than just copy it
On the first few watches TFA had its issues, but honestly, it left me excited for a more. Maybe just to get figure out the unanswered questions but then where those questions led made me despise it along with the rest of the trilogy
I don't know how Rian Johnson could have been so selfish. He threw all the plot development from the first film, destroying the ongoing continuity, so that he could put in his own half-baked ideas.
Hey Thor. When I was old enough to start thinking about Star Wars I noticed one of my favorite character arcs was Wedge Antilles, who has very minimal screen time. Are there any other “background characters” that have interesting stories or plot lines that get missed?
Hey Thor, just for fun if you could have a non-canon movie/limited series featuring a crossover with the Star Wars galaxy and any other franchise (whether it’s currently owned by Disney or not), what would it be? What characters would you have in it (from anywhere in that franchise’s respective timeline), and what would the gist of the movie/series be?
Hey Thor! Do you think the prequels could've been better told in 4 movies instead of 3? Given the time jump between Phantom Menace and Attack if the Clones and how jumbled up Episode II is I can't help but like the idea. One movie to show Qui-Gon, finding Anakin, and Palpatine's first step with the following "trilogy" being about the Clone Wars. Not to mention how nice would it be to see 10 episodes in a boxset rather than 9
By now, everyone has their own ideas for how the sequels could have gone, and all of them are better than what we got. For TFA, I would have gotten rid of the Starkiller Base nonsense first. It could have been a more modest terroristic attack by the New Empire against the Republic, thwarted by a Rebel raid against the NE's strike fleet. Just a simple, concise, and effective plotline. Second, Luke could have recognized Rey when she arrived at his retreat, opening up more questions to be answered in the next movies, and explaining why R2 chose to wake up when he did - because Rey was now ready to meet the old Master again. Just one of a thousand ideas that I think would have all improved the sequels.
We’re just going to talk about how the sequels are bad for 20 years, aren’t we? Then the kids that saw these films will, as adults, tell us they’re great - and the clowns that knowingly ignore the incompetence of the prequels will wonder why this is.
As someone who grew up with the prequels, my generation knew that the PT was not as good as the OT. We bashed it as well when we were teenagers. However the prequels had a good foundation. The Clone Wars show flushed it out. That's why my generation looks back at the PT and defends it because it was decent when you ignored the bad acting.
@@alekino26 Honestly the acting doesn't even seem that bad anymore. The only thing that still "Jars" me a bit is the Gungans and how childish they are. But they mostly serve in a movie about a Child, so...point to Lucas, I suppose.
If you took away the social media and RUclips and whatever like it was around the prequel time and went off what movie critics said the sequel trilogy was so amazing and it's the same but opposite for the prequel trilogy the movie critics said they was crap and thats mostly all people had to go off if the prequel trilogy had social media and RUclips like we do now it may have been a different story so don't go around calling people clowns for liking something weather it's the prequels or the sequels people can like whatever they want without being called clowns
You hit it on the head. I really enjoyed Ep 7 when it came out. It had a lot of issues, but I still enjoyed it. After 8 & 9, I basically hate all 3 now.
Yeah, that line from Yoda about death was delivered badly, and is conveyed even worse in Acolyte🤢. Like I've said, we almost need to hear someone explain Buddhism's philosophy on clinging to desired outcomes to get it. It's always interpreted as to mean something bad. I feel like it's unavoidable that a jedi will morn. Maybe Jedi need to be told "you have a bleeding heart, but you can't/shouldn't try fixing everything." They should accept the circumstances that aren't caused by maliciousness, or aren't in a jedi's job description, too. When death occurs from age, disease, something that doesn't "want" to kill it is natural, but war and murder is tragic (I guess that bit goes without saying). They shouldn't have a stone heart. Just steal nerves.
I've been saying this forever, a major lesson from Star Wars is Learning to Let Go. If we look at the OT, Obiwan teaches Luke to follow his instincts and overcome his weaknesses. Yoda teaches Luke that death is a part of the cycle of life, and that we should let go of our fears to avoid falling into darkness. Vader shows Luke that people can change once they let go of thier power and selfishness. In the PT, Quigon explains to Obiwan to be patient and mindful of the situation at hand instead of preemptively acting. In AOTC We see Anakin's struggle to follow in the footsteps of Quigon and keeps his inner hatred hidden from Obiwan. His Obsession with power makes him confess to Padme that he is being held back and is treated like a child. Refusing to let go of his mothers destiny led him to massacering an entire Village. Refusing to let go of his lust leads to a secret marriage that he tries to hide. Lastly, Anakins downfall to the dark side is a result of refusing to let go of his fear of loosing Padme. To sum it up, George Lucas created Star Wars as a coming-of-age story, one of those messages being allowing yourslef to let go of any grudges, fears, anger, hate, and obsessions because they destroy you from inside.
@@MaxRamos8 I agree with all that. And it's one of the reasons I feel Jedi: Fallen Order captured the essence of Star Wars, though some people have solid criticisms against it. The story resonated with me not just because he delt with depression, lacking/finding a reason to move forward, and connecting with others and oneself again, but it was about moving on and growing as a person. I'm in my early twenties, I was eighteen when I started watching the playthroughs, and I just heard a lot of things I needed to hear. It wasn't "just have hope" kind of encouragement, it was "I know what you're dealing with, here is someone working through it" kinda encouragement. Also, the references and familiar places are there because Cal is reflecting on and confronting his experiences, and Dathomir is just a good visualization of what a place or person consumed by hate, vengeance and grief looks like. It is still all about taking the next step, healing, and choosing a new life. It didn't depend on familiarity or nostalgia, the way Survivor threatened to, imo. Lots of Separatist tech, Clone Wars show droid voices killed the mood, the inclusion of High Republic stuff was sus but I accept it.
Force healing has been a part of Star Wars since it was introduced into the Star Wars Roleplaying Game in 1987 and, I’m pretty sure, has been a part of every edition of the game since. Just sayin.
Imma make one little correction on that analogy. The decanonization of the expanded universe was the stabbing because it took away tons of lore, but Disney could fix it with their own stories. The force awakens was pulling the knife out because the story was a rehash but there's still room for interesting stories. The last jedi was putting the knife back in because no one was ever excited for whatever Disney would do next. The only reason people were still around to watch their stuff is because they have a false hope that somehow Disney will turn things around. I think it's pretty clear tho that they won't.
Honestly, nowadays there is no more hope for Star Wars, it is better to focus on projects made or proposed by fans, such as the work of Everest Productions (Plagueis being the best), and your proposal for a sequel trilogy that you were unable to complete.
I think the difference between Jedi healing and Dark side healing is where the live force comes from. Jedi healing involves you giving your own life force to heal another, The Sith heal by taking the Life Force from another.
🤩 Wow, i’m actually really honored you used my comment. Thanks a lot, Thor!
Yes I will admit calling Force Awakens a “knife in the chest” probably sounded a little over dramatic from me but I’m glad you saw what I was getting at with the rest of the analogy. Sorry if it was a bit morbid. Yeah Star Wars is still very much alive.
I myself have never been a huge fan of Star Wars but I am trying to learn more as a film critic and I’ve always found the debates amongst the Star Wars community interesting. I’ve agreed with a lot of your takes but I also really appreciate that you try to make these statements as politely and non-confrontationally as possible. Keep up the good content. 👍
it was a great comment
EMT story false, true one is based off Steve Irwin's death, it has just Americanised.
@@chewy_bucca ah good to know. I’m fairly certain I heard the story on Reddit so I couldn’t be sure of it’s legitimacy
The analogies can be morbid, can be based on fake stories, they're not to be taken literally, it's just a thought experiment. For me it couldn't be more perfect, you nailed it.
I laughed because it's such a wild analogy but fits perfectly for the ST....well done!
Imagine where Star Wars would be now if the Sequel Trilogy was any good?
Making fun of brain dead people who cry that SW is “ruined”? That can still happen eventually.
I don't like depressing myself thanks
I concur,the 🐭missed a opportunity to introduce well written interesting characters and storylines and they blew it with an unplanned lazy retelling of the original trilogy,they literally have injured the Golden Goose during their tenure 🤔
@@achaudhari101It's like you're running your comments through Google translate into English.
@@achaudhari101 Shilling for Disney and whining about how most fans don't like what Disney is doing with the franchise is even more hilarious and just plain sad.
My memory from having seen Force Awakes at the time is that my friends really liked it, but I felt that something is missing and it felt "soulless".That feeling aged much better than the ones of my friends at the time.
It did seem like everyone else liked it, and I really wanted to like it too. I saw it three times. My opinion of it never changed. The last time I watched it, I knew I'd never watch it again. The only movie I've ever seen that just consistently gets worse from beginning to end. It has a promising start. By the end, they've made a joke out of Finn, and the entire story is driven by coincidence. Still, I'd hoped episode 8 could redeem it. Womp, womp.
@@giants8821 I used to be what can be called a casual Star Wars watcher and I'll try to fill in a little here. I enjoyed the TFA, it had pew pew laser fights, spaceships, ridiculous monsters and it was mostly presented in a way that I could shut of my mind and enjoy it. Mind you, I found even the original Star Wars ridiculous in many ways and never took them serious, they were mostly mindless fun for me. That said, even when mostly shutting my brain off, I still noticed some big flaws with TFA, but hoped part 8 and 9 would do better. It wasn't until after TLJ that I went back and analyzed TFA more carefully and realized the problems, which I had already noticed were big, were far more serious than I originally thought. I was also unaware of the mindboggling relay writing system and that the authors were just winging it, meaning I had no idea there was no plan for the future.
They easily could've taken us on a nostalgia trip without ripping off the originals. All they had to do was not ignore the original characters. How was that so hard?? 🤷♂️
For all its faults Jurassic world atleast gave us that nostalgia trip with the OG trio of Alan, Ellie and Malcolm. Too bad that wave nostalgia trip like movies didn’t occur before Star Wars force awakens
I actually thought Lucas cannibalized his own OT by having anakin win the war by knocking out the droid brain ship. don't get me wrong, it was definitely degrees of magnitude less direct than what Abrams did. but when I look at Lucas' history with "Death Stars," I count 4 of 6 movies obsessed with the stupid thing: ANH, RotJ, TPM, and AotC. 😄 (degrees of magnitude. I know it's just an easter egg in AotC and TPM is a parallel plot not an actual DS - still funny)
It was hard because JJ's characters weren't strong enough to stand up to the originals. The reason he didn't include Luke was because he tried and Luke ended up overshadowing his characters. He just didn't have characters strong enough to shine next to the originals.
@Crystalgate that just means he doesn't know how to write good characters, and they should've hired people who actually know how to write instead of relying on mystery boxes and nostalgia and relying on other people to answer the questions they created. 🙄
To answer your question with one word: ego.
I see the sequel trilogy as the following:
Force Awakens: older person hopping into a shiny restored car to enjoy a drive
Last Jedi: car crash
Rise of Skywalker: goes off a cliff
ruclips.net/video/r51J1h83VH8/видео.html
I think this scene perfectly sums up the sequel trilogy.
Rise of Skywalker would be parking the car in the garage and pretending it never crashed then having it ignite in your garage and burning your house down.
As horrifying as it is…that analogy fits.
The force awakens was flawed. But it could have been salvaged. Instead Rian yanked out the knife and then Abrams stabbed it again. Just mistake following mistake. If someone just stopped and made a good decision it still had a chance.
Absolute tragedy.
Force Awakens was flawed but it was good and had some magic to it.
@@Flaris never had a chance after the last jedi. I'm never gonna forgive Disney for ruining Luke
The Force Awakens was awful, but I'll agree, the second movie could have redeemed it, but it went the opposite direction.
And then the acolyte twisted the knife!
I got to say, that is a bang on analogy on the sequel trilogy. When people asked me what I thought of TFA when it came out I said, it really depends on what happens in the next movie because I wasn't totally sure about it (knife in chest). And of course the Last Jedi took all the interesting parts and destroyed it (took the knife out). I didn't even care about TROS because it didn't matter what they did, the trilogy was DOA.
TFA is the movie that undid all the heroes accomplished in the OT and largely turned them into failures. It's quite bad in its own right.
Not necessarily. Having a tragedy can make it interesting. It was the following movie Ms that hurt it.
@@achaudhari101 destroying both the republic and the jedi order was just pure laziness and lack of creativity.
@@jeremyfields9009 Tell that to Legends to a certain degree.
@@achaudhari101 Lucas literally destroyed the Jedi Order and The Republic 10 years ago on screen before the the release of TFA. Why would you think it’s a good idea to do the same exact story again on screen? The books are irrelevant because they are for a niche audience.
In the EU the war with the empire wasn’t nearly as finished as return of the Jedi ending would have you believe. But instead of reshashing old ideas and making the characters worse, the EU books explored the characters further and even introduced new threats and creative ideas. Disney trilogies has no creative ideas or interesting characters.
The Last Jedi wasn’t pulling out a knife from the chest. It was a decapitation
Yeah Last Jedi is he takes the knife out of his chest and uses it to slit the guys throat
I felt disemboweled was a better example
That implies that the head was still on Star Wars at that point. I'd say it was more like running over a dead, burned, dismembered, buried corpse...
It was more like Kathleen pulled out the knife, stabbed the guy a couple more times, then stuck it back in and blamed the patient for dying.
Then, rather than losing her job she was given a raise and a promotion.
100% true. "Ruin" Johnson wrecked Star Wars and KK let it happen. She is so incompetent. She needs to go.
No force awakens already ruined Luke Han leia etc
@@Scottadamsfan3481 Han was still Han though. we got to see him still be Han Solo. and whether you like it or not, he was always going to die. that was a stipulation for harrison ford doing the role, and honestly, that death was not in the top five of the major problems with that movie. han's death actually makes sense. and it was rian johnson who turned leia into marry poppins. her character wasn't irrevocably torched or altered abrams. iunno man. there are tons of dumb things in TFA, but I tend to agree with the original question/poster: rian johnson did the equivalent of yanking a barbed blade/tip out the way it came in, thus ensuring the victim dies.
What would it matter now if KK was gone. Star Wars is already ruined--irreparably ruined
@@daneg Han wasn't ruined because he died. He was ruined because he regressed back into his aloof smuggler persona. Rey even refers to him as such because apparently Han's smuggling was better known than his accomplishments as a general.
@@vetarlittorf1807 you're certainly entitled to your opinion. but that 'fact' isn't even on the board for the problems with TFA. the only problem with Han (minor compared to others of this ilk) is the fundamental problem with everything in TFA: nothing has a backstory. everything just happened and the whole movie is reactionary to stuff the audience isn't privy to. it's simply lazy writing. need the "good guys" to be under dogs? no problem. First Order now dominates half the galaxy and the New Republic seemingly doesn't care? So let's have Leia create a new rebellion. afraid to use Luke b/c once he appears, he'll be a deus ex machina? leave him out of the story completely. don't know how to get Rey out of a jam? latent force powers. Luke's lightsaber! how did you get that? nevermind. just take it. it's fate. the whole movie is either putting players in familiar places (which is ok. whatever. not terrible. not great but heavy on memberbarries - really bad in some places like a new death star). I don't actually see your point about han changing. the only gripe I have is splitting from leia over kylo ben. he wasn't any different of a character in TFA from the OT otherwise. and fuck! that's a good thing when you consider the changes made to luke off screen. iunno. man. I thought seeing han actually be HAN again was the one good thing about this movie. and that was mostly ford's charisma, imo. but it could have been abrams, as one thing he's very good at is memberberries.
I can imagine the Force Awakens writers room:
“No no, hear me out guys, let’s make a movie with a Death Star, BUT BIGGER!”
Let’s get the whole original cast back together, but we won’t reunite the trio onscreen!
Third time is the charm... or not
Yoda said what he said to Anakin, specifically for Anakin. No, Yoda was not preaching some “Ding dong the witch is dead” celebration of death. He was trying to advise Anakin, to counsel him. And in these counseling sessions, Yoda peers into the minds of the Jedi who come to him (yes, with consent). He is literally telling Anakin things he needs to hear, though unfortunately the lesson would come too late.
@@GGBlaster Yep and what Yoda meant was we all die someday that should be accepted. Of course there is a difference between “we all die someday” and “kill people to make them one with the force”
I'll be honest, I was incredibly hyped about The Force Awakens. I'd avoided spoilers, and when the opening chords of John William's theme hit, I about squealed in my seat.
BUT, this movie left me feeling incredibly flat. I remember it ending, and my first thought being "Was that it?" The only 2 times I got excited during it was that aforementioned opening theme and when the X-Wings came in over the lake. That was it. I didn't hate it. I wasn't fuming in my seat. I just felt so very underwhelmed the entire time.
I have to say, this movie failed to get me excited about Star Wars again. It was Rogue One that gave me that excitement. It was the movie that made me remember why I love Star Wars. I left that movie thinking, "THAT is how you do it."
Then I watched The Last Jedi, my faith renewed, and well.... yeah. Pretty much been down hill since.
7:20 the sith thrive on emotion but the strongest emotions are the ones closely tied with hate like grief is tied to sadness and sadness is close to hate so if a sith loses somebody or something important to them, they’ll be “stronger” because of it
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I was there in 2015 saying that TFA sucks and the sequel trilogy was doomed. Leaving aside making Rey OP, leaving aside the Marvel movie-like Whedonsnark dialogue, the one big disappointment is that of all the limitless creative possibilities we could have gotten from the prospect of a Star Wars sequel trilogy, all we got was a giant reset button and the same damn thing all over again.
It genuinely makes me mad for what a waste it all was. All that money from Disney, all those options, and THAT’S IT????? That’s the best they could do? I feel like I could’ve written a better script than that, and I can’t write fiction to save my life, but apparently the kind of mediocrity we got is good enough for Hollywood these days.
I'd no real interest in seeing the film once I heard that Lucas had been uninvolved, but I'd honestly expected it to be fine. I was genuinely shocked as scene after scene just repeated the outline from A New Hope, with little variation. I felt, "Do they honestly think we're so dumb as to not notice what they're doing here?" And yet, it was generally praised at the time. It never made sense to me.
Yeah, still too many people give this movie a pass
Copying the beats from New Hope was the right call - it’s like a poem, it rhymes- it’s Lucas’ style. Making Rey the poster girl for Mary-sue really hurt them (and stoked the toxic fandom flames) and making the OG heroes all failures, were the big let downs. I liked it enough- it just needed a sequel that made sense and went in some new directions. Luke wouldn’t have just given up - not would Han - they would be together chasing Kylo down - it’s not like he dropped out to be a beat poet- he became a fascist terrorist. Han and Luke wouldn’t let that just slide
@@Daniel-rp7nb They didn't just copy the beats, they practically ripped off the movie.
I was so hopeful when I heard a new Star Wars trilogy was coming back during my high school days. Hearing that it’s in Disney’s hands and that nothing could go wrong or that they had definitely planned it out right?
Flashback to now, coming up to 10 years later, I’ve never felt so disappointed for a franchise in my life.
The first blood, that made me twitch and seeded the doubts in my head was when they killed off Han Solo, Rey winning against Kylo and seeing Luke for a few seconds after waiting for so many years… but the trust for Disney as cope made that go away at the time. Now it’s all gone.
Han was going to die regardless and even I was expecting it to happen before the movie came out.
@@achaudhari101 yeah especially with what Harrison Ford said, I just didn’t like the execution (no pun intended).
Disney owning Star Wars never sounded or felt right to me from the beginning. I felt uneasy and icked out.
@@odbade1999 Never understood why Ford hated and crapped on his beloved character so much. Without Han Solo, he probably wouldn't have had a career. He never would have been Indiana Jones.
@@SRMoore1178 fair, its just at the time, especially hearing George sold it someone he trusted i.e. Bob Iger BUT then hearing the drama later that Iger broke that trust, the feelings of fans like yourself and many others started to make sense now, it’s so sad we’re here.
Even if the Force Awakens played it a bit safe, it is far from a horrific death knell for the franchise. That film could have been a solid jumping off point, and it's the only one of the sequels that you can put on for decent "Star Wars" in the background.
The only *true mystery box set up in the Episode 7 was Who Was Rey/Her Parents? Snoke was hyped up by fans, not the film itself; there was more about Snoke in his first appearance than Palpatine had in the first TWO Star Wars movies combined, but nobody calls the Emperor a "Mystery Box." My point is The Force Awakens was fine to even enjoyable, if a bit generic and nowhere near as disjointed as the following entires in the sequel trilogy.
You still had a bad world building for the sake to make New Hope 2.0 :
New Republic being insignificant,
Han and Leia broke off and were taken to their episode 4 roles,
Luke being Yoda, so the main protagonist is still the only good force user in the movie.
From TFA: Han : He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.
That's why I say it's the best of the Sequels.
I think you’re missing the point of the analogy
@@emperorcubone We actually had nothing on Snoke. The Emperor we all about him in the OT.
So in other words, Rian saw TFA and said, “knives out!”
I've been saying this forever, a major lesson from Star Wars is Learning to Let Go.
If we look at the OT, Obiwan teaches Luke to follow his instincts and overcome his weaknesses. Yoda teaches Luke that death is a part of the cycle of life, and that we should let go of our fears to avoid falling into darkness. Vader shows Luke that people can change once they let go of thier power and selfishness.
In the PT, Quigon explains to Obiwan to be patient and mindful of the situation at hand instead of preemptively acting. In AOTC We see Anakin's struggle to follow in the footsteps of Quigon and keeps his inner hatred hidden from Obiwan. His Obsession with power makes him confess to Padme that he is being held back and is treated like a child. Refusing to let go of his mothers destiny led him to massacering an entire Village. Refusing to let go of his lust leads to a secret marriage that he tries to hide. Lastly, Anakins downfall to the dark side is a result of refusing to let go of his fear of loosing Padme.
To sum it up, George Lucas created Star Wars as a coming-of-age story, one of those messages being allowing yourslef to let go of any grudges, fears, anger, hate, and obsessions because they destroy you from inside.
@@MaxRamos8 Yep and the ironic is if Anakin listened to Yoda’s advice, Padme would have survived. We see at the end of the film her death was textbook self-fulfilling prophecy and by trying avoid the vision he caused it. As Yoda said in Empire “Always in motion, the Future is.”
"Well, maybe if you weren't such a horrible person, you wouldn't have been stabbed in the first place. It's your fault, not mine." -Disney if it were the EMS in that analogy
That's why the whole "This never would've happened if you had done this/not done that." is not a solid argument. It is assumed by nature that all circumstances are completely the same in every case or event and that it's impossible for unforseen outside factors to intervene, which is delusional to believe.
I loved seeing TFA in theaters the Christmas it came out. I wish things had ended differently...
The most interesting part of Force Awakens was Finn, a former child soldier who got to use the lightsaber and who might be Force sensitive.
Too bad it was all because China hates Darkies for some stupid bigoted reason.
Funny thing is that wasn't original either. Atton rand was Also a soldier not just that a sith soldier that fought for darth Revan. Then he changed when a female Jedi changed him but he killed her. That lead him to fight alongside the Jedi exile.
i still don't think the story of Finn suits the ST. He could have been a side character sure or a better yet a Star Wars Story. But the ST should have been about the Skywalker lineage and overall Galaxy.
They could have had two Force users learning to weild and use it, but instead we got a Mary Sue and one character turned into a joke.
Finn should've been dead. Rey should've been dead. Kylo was trained by Luke Freaking Skywalker and Palatine via Snoke proxy. There is zero chance either of them could've held their own, let alone defeated him in a lightsaber duel in TFA.
If we were just aping ANH and hitting all the same beats, this would've been a great time for Luke to intervene and save them like Ben Kenobi v Vader on the Death Star I.
Sadly TFA is the best out of the Sequels, but that's not saying much honestly. It is a hollow ripoff of New Hope that just doesn't expand on the lore and world building. The other movies don't really either.
Now there are people who talk about how they like saw TFA and TLJ as individual films. That's fine, but when you look at the bigger picture in terms of them as part of a trilogy and part of a franchise you run into some big problems. Like how they kinda contradict each other or in terms of the established lore just don't fit at all and even contradicts it. Its very clear just watching all three there was no clear outline for a direction the continuation of the Star Wars story was going.
Sure you can say, "Well that's what the books and comics are for, to fill in those gaps." Yeah that's fine, but when yiu you also look at the Sequels as just the movies themselves, they just don't tell a story that makes much sense, in terms of themselves and as Star Wars movies. Oh you will hear, "What about the Prequels?" Those films whether you like them or not actually did world and lore building and told stories you could follow and fit into Star Wars where you didn't need books and comics to help fill the gaps.
And to "Star Wars is dying." I'd say that it's like a cancer patient who has gotten a new doctor that only cares about making money tries out different treatments that mostly been doing the patient more harm than good, just to make a buck.
When people tell you world building doesn’t matter, watch TFA. TFA problem is not that it didn’t expand on the lore, it’s that it, at best, reset it and worst outright broke it so that everything was going to be painted into a corner. It gets overlooked cause TLJ said hold my beer and somehow topped it. But It’s awful world building on its own and a clinic in how not to to do world building.
Yeah, I had a lot of issues with TFA, particularly how Han and Leia were handled, Kylo Ren being dark side for no raisin and wiping out the Jedi Order again (cause a new small Jedi Order was ripe for a diverse cast) and a lack of physics. But it had some interesting ideas like child soldiers and a small Imperial Remnant/terrorists to fight. They *could* have given Rey a backstory to explain her abilities (Luke's student/daughter who had had her memories repressed was my top theory cause why cast as girl that looked so much like Natalie Portman if you weren't going to make her related?) Luke could have been on the Island with a small group of students he had managed to rescue. We *could* have had a red headed woman there with him.
TLJ just gave us the least satisfying answers it could to every question, and ignored all the set up from the previous film. You do *not* leave a map if you don't want to be found. Also, it's frickin space... you leave coordinates, not a map.. oy.
It’s bizarre. When I first saw the Force Awakens, I loved it. The mystery around Luke & Rey is what really pulled me in. Plus Finn and Poes friendship was cool. Only thing I didn’t like is how Han & Leia were divorced. They should have stayed together like in the Old EU. It’s a shame that Disney took the Sequels in a bad direction
Lucas Films nowadays seem to be intent to tear down the old and replace it with their interpretation of what “the modern audience” should want 🤔
@@skepticalsmurf Thats what really ticks me off. They keep insulting Lucas and his old stories. Lucasfilm/Disney are so arrogant & lazy.
When I first saw the film, and even when I knew about some of the rumors, and the poster confirmed it was gonna be a Iittle like New Hope, I still went in with an open mind.
During the first act I was interested in the film, heck Iike the opening with the attack on the village, looked like Spielberg was directing. BB-8 won me over with his thumbs-up.
Then came the scene with Starkiller base and it blew up 5 planets that were ridiculously close together and kinda perfectly in a line...that's when I was taken out of the film and it just got worse from there.
Rey being cemented as a Mary Sue, them comparing the size of Starkiller base to the two Deathstars, like it was JJ telling Lucas he had bigger balls. The fact that the weakpoint was hexagon shaped. A trenchrun to the weakpoint. And Luke only showing up at the end for about a minute or so.
@@Deuteromis and don’t forget how we didn’t get a proper reunion with the classic characters. Even though I enjoyed the force awakens, that really ticked me off too. Or at least give us a flashback of them meeting each other again(in the Last Jedi). But nooooo, we gotta have Luke drinking disgusting green milk.
@@Steel-101 That is the biggest sin of The Sequels
The bit with Luke in TFA reminds me a bit of Granny Weatherwax in Carpe Jugulum; the narration initially makes it sound like she's stormed off to be alone in this magically isolated place because she wasn't invited to the royal naming ceremony, but she was actually trying to figure out how to deal with the incoming Vampyres, and needed to be where they couldn't read her thoughts. It sounds like that could have been the idea for Luke; he's trying to figure out what to do with this new Dark Side problem that's once again turned a relative to evil.
Hey Thor just wanted to add that I myself really enjoyed the force awakens when it first came out and following that, my friends who are into Star Wars and i thought it was gonna be another great era, like when the clone wars were explored between 2003 to 2008, from the original Tartakovsky animation to the comics and Books, especially the Republic Commando series and the Dark Lord trilogy. Ithought after the force awakens their movies would try to be a blend of the hero's journey we see throughout the original trilogy, and the how big and imaginative the galaxy is that we see in the prequels.
Imstead we ended up with an aimless scifi movie series with cheap young adult novel story beats, like all the movie series based on ya series in the 2010's. I think it shows that they were just trying to chase an audience they wanted and thought they could get,
One hell of an analogy
The “mystery boxes” in the force awakens had no way to explain them sensibly or in a satisfying way.
Why is there no new Jedi order?
Where did the first order come from? Are they some fringe militant group or a well funded military power house choke-holding the galaxy?
Why are Han, Leah, and Luke not taking responsibility for Ben?
Why does the great love story end in separation and bad parenting?
Why does no one other than the “new rebellion” care about the first order destroying all those planets?
Why are the people on those planets not important enough to discuss?
Why have we never heard of Maz before despite being alive during the other movies?
I could keep going. It’s classic J.J., don’t think about it, don’t worry about painting yourself in a corner, just leave as many Chevkov’s guns around as possible and never fire a single one.
If rey had been luke and mara jades daughter, then he has to train her, it could have been great.
If they explored Finn's story more, made him a badass stormtrooper,....it could have been great.
If they made use if the original cast, as mentors and leaders of the new republic (with the young ones doing the running around having adventures) it could have been great.
Instead they served up a mess and blamed everyone else.
They actually damaged the original and prequel trilogy instead! They devalued and "dead ended" the whole story.
Except Luke being celibate made much more sense.
Maybe not. Had Luke become a New Jedi, it could have been an attempt to change the Jedi and move them into a different path that may be the correct one. The Jedi were flawed, and having them evolve could have been a good plot element.
@@achaudhari101 you would begrudge Luke a bit of action just because he is a jedi? You are very strict 😲
I hated TFA from the beginning. 😬 Besides having all the OG characters regress and not being together, I was very disappointed in the First Order/ villains not being compelling. And having a third Death Star similar thing? By the time Poe was doing the final run, you knew †˙å† Star Killer base would've been destroyed. There was no tension. My expectations were lowered before TLJ came out, even lower with RoS. Now everything after the sequels have to explain things, that weren't talked about or made sense, which makes the overall timeline even worse.
@@patriciaa65 Same. The only villains I found interesting were the criminal factions because they were new in TFA and Snoke mostly because he was initially an interesting contrast to Palpatine (being more calm and collected instead of hammy and prone to violence) and being played by Andy Serkis who I enjoy as an actor.
Rian Jonson didnt pull the knife out. That would mean he had intentions do to a good thing. He twisted the knife, then took 3 other knifes, to stab into the patients chest, kicked him on the floor, picked up his camera to make a picture and claim he had made art
And anyone who wants to claim otherwise should listen to him in interviews about TLJ, he wanted people to hate it because he is a hack and knows the only way his movies would get *ANY* attention, would be to ruin them and get all the bad PR that came with.
He is a genuine believer of “No such thing as bad publicity”.
I'm diggin' that analogy. It fits perfectly.
I hate the "Mystery Box," and my reaction severe disappointment. It turned out that it would be the only Disney Star Wars movie that I would ever see: and, no, I have no plans to see Rogue One.
If I recall correctly Force healing was used by a Jedi in Legends when Mon Mothma was chief of state and poisoned.
@@lukejochem Yes but the thing about force healing is it is a very situational power when most weapons cauterize instantly it isn’t very useful. Mon Mothma was also at the point he had to step down as Chief of State because even after the force healing (technically wasn’t even force healing just using the force to remove the nano-virus) she was already in too poor health to continue in that position.
Poe's Xwing will always have a special place in my heart. I tore apart and rebuilt that lego too many times to count while I was hospitalized with Leukemia.
@@prussianhill I have that as my first X-Wing and I still like even with the color scheme. I also kinda like the Quadjumper which I also own because of the loads of features.
@emberfist8347 I liked the color scheme honestly. Hearkens back to the days of WW1 with the bold color schemes. My only problem (the engines never staying attached aside) is that I would prefer an R2 slot over the BB8. But even then... so many good memories of tearing the set apart and rebuilding it. I was even transported once with the lego set (in the box) strapped to the gurney.
I liked episode 7, it was mostly a retread of a new hope but there was enough there to build off in a sequel. I think the big mistake of last Jedi (among a lot of things) was that it shouldn’t have tried “subverting expectations”.
To be fair to JJ Abrams, who I personally think is a hack, anyway, Disney/Lucasfilm refused to move the opening date of RoS even after wasting all the time hiring and firing Colin Trevorrow and looking for a replacement before finally twisting Abrams' arm to write and direct the movie, so JJ only had about a month to pull his script together before they had to start production on the film. Whatever bad things have happened with Star Wars, Disney has consistently made them worse by rushing almost every project they've put into production, starting with TFA.
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling.
There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality.
And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment.
This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar.
What do you think?
The franchise has dealt with this issue for a long time please don’t keep spamming his comment.
The revolution happened in the EU as well as a terror plot featuring an imperial douche that did effectively what just happened IRL with the pager incident at a garbage planet/droid factory....
That one was removed from Canon likely due to the politics of it before NJO.
The droid revolution already happened during the Old Republic Era Pre-KOTOR. Ion Weapons were developed specifically during the galaxy wide revolt of droids.
The Galactic Republic then instituted a mandate that all droids needed to be memory wiped every so often to prevent another Droid Rebellion though it's been lax on enforcing that on private droid ownership. This Mandate is maintained through even the Galactic Empire and into the New Republic surviving even the Dark Age of the Republic.
There has never been a full-scale Droid Rebellion since thanks to this mandate and the use of restraining bolts. The Galaxy at large has since been always on alert since and tends to quash any droid uprising fairly quickly.
The GFFA is not overdue for a Droid Rebellion because it's already happened and everything we see take place after it.
@@emberfist8347He asked to hear Thors thoughts about the subject and I for one would like to hear them as well.
@@jacobbecklehimer7781 He has been putting this same comment on all of Thor’s videos for months.
For dark side healing, and Jedi won't letting go and forcefully saving others, read the legends comic series Legacy, explores this concept nicely
I enjoyed the Force Awakens- it wasn’t perfect but it was fun and though it was a retread of familiar plots, there were some interesting mysteries. But that movie was dependent so much on the movies that came after it. Now, failed potential is the legacy the Force Awakens has.
Honestly, I didn't mind "Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015)." Actually, I think it's one of the better entries of the series. The film took some chances and it made me curious about "Star Wars" again. I thought it had a lot of sequel potential. It was an exciting time when it was released. I enjoyed seeing it in IMAX 3D, and writing a review of the film. I also had fun making a list of what appeared to be its numerous nods to horror films including "Phantasm (1979)," "Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981)," "The Exorcist (1973)," "Scanners (1981)" and "Deadly Friend (1986)." So that's what I think about when I see this film now, those good memories.
Actually TFA did a pretty good work setting a story up and given us questions to be answered.
Problem is that the story wasnt planed out and that each director basicly did theyre own movie within the trilogy instead of building on what was before as they should.
Instead the directors should had been given a set of characters and a series of plot points to follow or an end goql to reach.
But the biggest issue was that the story was not coherent- That the characters changed to much with each movies.
I think TFA was well received initially because we were all just so excited for new Star Wars and the return of the OG heroes. That said, while structurally it's a fine film if removed entirely from the broader context of the series, the fact that it is a near beat for beat remake of ANH is indefensible. Disney could have hired nearly any writer / director combo it wanted to helm the next installment of THE epic of modern cinema, and we should have known things were headed in the wrong direction when it turned out they couldn't come up with a novel plotline. Episode 7 should have been about a civil war threatening to fracture the New Republic.
The analogy fits. When I saw TFA I realized it was a copy of A New Hope. I thought to myself: If this movie is a copy of ANH then I hope the next movie isn't a copy of The Empire Strikes Back. I like TLJ because it's the only movie in the sequel trilogy that isn't like the OT.
JJ's ending for TFA doesn't work either. Han Solo dies and Luke sits around levitating rocks??????? There was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy, that's why it failed. I was not fooled by TFA when it came out. I will never understand why so many people liked that movie.
I really like the idea of Force Healing being a dark side power.
Simply as it is alluring and tempting to want to be able to do that and that's what the dark side is like, but it's reckless because to get to that position you must first have failed to protect and avoid suffering, it encourages you to act violently rather than seek a peaceful resolution because you have that option to correct any damage done. The same if you could use the force to resurrect the dead, extend life forever, all dark side powers. Forcibly altering and shaping those around you with the force, that's the dark side.
That's not to say the jedi couldn't use something that looks or works like force healing, stopping blood loss isn't strictly the same as magically repairing damage done, neither is soothing somebody in pain - it's similar to a mind trick, nor even holding together an injured body until it can get medical attention but I do think going as far as to alter the body with the force is a step beyond what the Jedi could reasonably do. They'd do everything they could to avoid that happening in the first place.
That reference with the knife makes sense.. I wanted the original casts back together to show where they ended up and as you say passing the torch on to the next generation would have been much better or even using some of the novels from the EU would have worked. Hint, hint Heir to the Empire....
l like your previous ideas on the aforementioned 🐭sequel trilogy,also The Critical Drinker had some great ideas on possible character backgrounds of Rey,Finn & Poe 🤔
Meh. They all need to go into the bin and start anew. They were terrible hamfist characters "Hey, let's have a girl! Hey, let's have a black guy!!!! Hey, let's have a White Guy who gets chastised by women every opportunity!"
Those characters never truly had their own voice or purpose. They forgot to start with Archetypes and symbol and instead went with empty misguided wish fulfillment. Aka story Poison
There's nothing wrong with the mystery box approach as long as the box isn't empty. The subversion of expectations can be good too, if the contents are better, than expected.
I remember a scene in one of the EU books from the 90s where Luke was using force-healing on himself after a fight, so I never thought of it as a dark side ability.
There’s a lot they could’ve done to save the sequels, but it felt more to me like that scene in office space where they beat the printer. They just took turns beating Star Wars to death, and even as they walked off they couldn’t help but go back and beat it some more.
That’s what JJ, KK and Ruin did.
One of the [many] problems that Star Wars created for itself is that it started taking things like "If you strike me down, I shalll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" very literally, confusing what death actually means in Star Wars. It's less "I will become part of something that supersedes mortal concerns" than "If Yoda's ghost can just call down lightning at will, why aren't more matters just left to these monumentally powerful, and presumably invincible, Force ghosts?"
The Last Jedi is my favorite of the sequel trilogy because I didn’t feel like I knew the exact beats the story would follow. It surprised me in a better way than say Han regressing in TFA or the fake out deaths of ROS.
I still like Episode 7 a lot. It’s what came after it that killed it for me.
Imagine if Disney just remade New Jedi Order series (possibly mixing it with Dark Nest) into the Sequel trilogy. That is what should be the sequels for me.
@@GM-gb1eu Let’s please cut out the bug sex.
@@emberfist8347 Yes, these series weren't perfect (especially Dark Nest), but if we cut out the bad things, it would have the interesting story. Yuzhan Vong invasion would be a great status quo change and Disney Sequels have Han's and Leia's son as a villain. With the addition of original cast and new cast (even the Disney ones, each character other than Rey seemed interesting when being introduced) and the twist with Rey would made good sequel trilogy.
About the force healing: it could be that the Jedi were aware of the problem mentioned which is why they limited use and knowledgeof the technique to those that were capable of letting go.
@@markusbarten455 Legends gave the best explanation of Force Healing. It accelerates natural healing meaning it is very niche because lightsabers and blasters cauterize wounds on impact ergo you can’t heal them. So it is only useful for things you can’t fix with a bacta patch.
I saw the force awakens 3 times in theater. No shame at all. I was so excited and I actually liked the force awakens. Now when I watch it, it’s just sadness of what it could of become
Hey Thor,
I think the sequels should’ve been about Luke trying to rebuild the Jedi whilst trying to help the new republic handle a fractured galaxy without the empire around to maintain order/control with many factions fighting for territory.
The major villains could be the remnant of the empire and then the rise of the Mandolorians who once again become a major adversary to the republic and Jedi.
There is a lot of room in Galaxy I’ve described for good fights between Luke and his padawans against either empire praetorians and/or mandolorians. There’s also easy/natural opportunities for Luke, Leah, and Han to be together but also have separate missions.
Leah trying to rebuild the republic, Han leading the new republic forces, and Luke trying to train his padawans while negotiating with Leah and fighting with Han.
Do you think my idea is better than what we got? What stories do you think could be told within the framework I’ve suggested?
Hey Thor Ok let’s examine the dark side, it does have force healing in its own sacrilegious way. It’s ripping the life force from other things to replenish yourself it is fufling the ultimate selfish desires of one person above all things around you. However the force is ultimately a life giving energy and already doesn’t want to be controlled like that in the first place by a darksider. Thus when using it in a such a debased way the healing is much less effective considering the amount of life energy you’d have to steal from other creatures. We can refer to the darth bane path of destruction to see the dark lords thoughts, he can stave off poisons for a time by killing a fathers son in front of him but to truly purge it he requires a healer. But remember class stabbing the knife back into your patients can still not be cured with the force and should not be tried at home
Force Awakens coulda been pretty darn good.
Make the “Resistance” just the military of the New Republic.
Push back Starkiller Base blowing up all the planets from end of act B to the very end of the movie when they’re attempting to blow it up so the hero’s lose out the gate to create a real threat that won’t go down as easy.
MAKE REY LOSE obviously. Basic story telling.
After Rey is defeated by Kylo have Luke fly overhead really low to the trees in his classic X-Wing, have him effortlessly deal with Kylo to show that “ya the new hero has a lot of work but her new teacher is more powerful than any of them” and have him rescue her and flee as the New Republic fleet in is disarray after the eradication of the heart of their government.
Luke can bring her to that ocean planet I forget its name to train her while all the other main cast thinks she was either killed or captured on Starkiller base during the retreat to add more motivation for the other characters in the next movie to lead up to them being reunited after she’s had some real training.
TFA: knife to chest. TLJ: decapitation. TROS: cremation
The Acolyte: pissing on the ashes
When it comes to force healing I think it works both ways. Jedi's healing is based on the will to protect life, it uses body's natural abilities and enhances them. While sith's abilities is driven by rebelion against the natural order of things, selfish thinking to "things be my way".
the question of whether healing is dark side or light side could lead to an interesting debate on the nature of the force beyond the light and dark. Palpatine says the dark side leads to many abilities thought to be *unnatural*. Which kind of brings up the idea of are the two sides of the force also natural vs unnatural? What constitutes as "light side natural"? No one can naturally run too fast to be seen by the naked eye, but Obi Wan and Qui Gonn do it in Phantom Menace. And no one's going to say they're secretly dark side users.
@@NinjaFlibble Well is answer is Palpatine is lying like he always does.
@@emberfist8347
I'm just saying it could be an interesting debate 🤷♀
I remember sitting in the back seat of the car after watching The Farce Awakens. Everyone was doing like you were saying...contemplating it, talking about things they liked, etc. I friggin' hated it from the start, haha! It was exactly what I hoped it wouldn't be, but was afraid it could be...another 'soft reboot'. A trend that had already made its rounds in Hollywood many times before, often at the overrated hands of one J.J. Abrams. It was, definitely, the beginning of the end for Star Wars. Am I a prophet? Could I see the future? No, I just know garbage when I see it 😂
I was always saying that JJ wanted Luke was rediscovering a new force ability to win again.
Hey Thor: I once read that JJ wanted the EP7 Luke reveal to be like the rey scene we got in episode 9. Luke was supposed to be meditation, floating in the air while stones where swirling around him. Then Rian Johnson asked him to not do that.
Let's imagine JJ would have went with his plan. How would that reshape episode 8 and Rians depiction or the options he had to paint Luke as an idiot?
Why is Chewie always missing when the gang gets back together in these reunions? I would also like C-3PO and R2 hanging out, as well.
Still not really a fan of TFA resetting the galaxy into basically Rebels VS Empire 2.0 and undoing progress from the OG trilogy. Of course, following movies could've tried improving it but we all know how that went.
EU did the same thing.
@@achaudhari101 Except they didn't undo anything
@@achaudhari101No they didn't.
@@achaudhari101EU took a long time before it went that way. Stop cherry picking.
@@achaudhari101 Not really. Now Dark Empire came out before many of the other EU novels we have now, but they fleshed out the capture of Coruscant and establishment of the New Republic, while they maintained a military instead of a “resistance”. Also, the Imperial remnant made more sense in this case. Honestly, for all the complaints people have with the prequels having too much scenes with politics, the sequels had practically none, and therefore gave no reason to care for the conflict at large and how it’ll affect the galaxy. If they existed in a vacuum, it might be fine, but it was a bad decision from a continuity perspective.
I saw it several times and was asking so many questions and got fully on the snoke theory train, but episode 8… watched that once and scratched my head and didn’t bother going deep at that point
Well... I wouldn't even term it a trilogy. More a collage: a collection of random thoughts taped together, with a little bit of Jackson Pollack thrown in.
Hey thor, i wanted to know what your thoughts are on the state of the canon EU compared to Legends EU. In particular, how well connected each story is to both the star wars universe and other stories in their respective EUs.
As I've become more and more jaded with the way disney has handled star wars, I've delved more into the EU of legends and have found that a big aspect of these stories i enjoy is the connections and references to other stories within the EU. For example in rogue squadron the katana fleet is mentioned which was introduced earlier in the thrawn trilogy, Fest and the valley of the jedi levels within the dark forces games are later reintroduced in the jedi vs sith comic for the valley of the jedi and republic commando novel has omega squad have a mission on fest. I can't say i have had much experience in the eu of canon, but from what i have experienced, there is not many of those types of connections to be seen. As someone who has probably had more experience with both versions of the EU, I just want to know what you have seen in terms of how each story surrounds and binds together their respective EUs.
TFA is very much a knife through all our chests
Not for me. I still enjoy that film compared to the latter two.
I don’t think The Force Awakens was a knife. It was a good film and I remember really enjoying it. It might be the last time I went to the cinema for a SW film and walked out really wanting to watch it again.
Me listening to this intro thinking “WTF is Thor on” 😂 only to hit the 1 minute 45 second mark* and be left thinking… “if that isn’t the greatest explanation of the sequel trilogy idk what is”
I like the analogy. While I found most of the Force Awakens was meh, I took considerable exception to the 'Starkiller Base' business. Planet destroying super weapons were an overused trope that needed to die, and it closed off so many opportunities to take the trilogy in fresh directions with a new Jedi and New republic
I agree, using the Force to heal the living isn't really a dark side ability. Using the Force to bring a dead person back to life sounds a lot darker to me, as it suggests the "healer" isn't able to let go.
RIP Star Wars 2012 at this point it is like necrophilia just let the corps be.
I would argue TFA was the victim walking down a dark alley. TLJ was the knife to the heart. TROS was a rush to the ER but the victim was already dead.
I find the question about Force Healing being Dark Side very interesting, as it may fit better than the answer implied. Just because something seems to be almost only positive does not have to mean it is. Loving someone is similar in that way, a very personal connection, which when reciprocated is almost only positive, but still is something jedi should stay away from.
So Rian Johnson had his whole "your Snoke theory sucks" meme. However, if he was going to be provocative that way, he was writing a massive check. If he was telling me my theories about Snoke, and by extension the other mysteries from Episode VII suck, he was signing up to deliver something EVEN MORE AWESOME than I was imagining.
When what I got was lame, that check bounced in a major way. Rise of Skywalker would have needed to be an 11/10 to rescue things, and the fact that it was even worse made the whole enterprise irredeemable.
I went to Star Wars Celebration in 2017 where they revealed The Last Jedi, and I'll never forget the overwhelming feeling of optimism that the movie was going to be good. People telling Rian Johnson, "we believe you'll knock it out the park!" And such as he talked to the fans that were pulling an all nighter in the line for the trailer. With The Force Awakens being good enough to look forward to a sequel, we all there wanted it to be good because in the back of our heads, we knew if the 2nd movie was bad, then there's no chance the 3rd would be good. The Last Jedi wasn't taking out the blade, it was the reentering of the blade, but pushing it further. Rise of Skywalker is just twisting the blade.
I haven't seen the fandom on the same page like that since that day, and I still truly wonder what the Fandom landscape would be right now if The Last Jedi actually delivered...
The biggest problems I have with TFA are Finn and Han. They completely undue Han’s character arc in the OT just so that he “feels like Han.” Finn was an awesome character, a conflicted stormtrooper who is there to humanize stormtroopers… while also killing a ton of stormtroopers while saying “woo.” All of the mystery boxes is what ultimately killed the ST, there was no possible way to make a legitimate answer to ANY of JJ’s questions that would fit in the puzzle because the puzzle was originally created without answers (JJ’s speciality). While there’s issues with TLJ I will forever respect Rian Johnson for 1. Being a good filmmaker and 2. For providing answers that actually made sense to me and 3. Trying to deepen the lore rather than just copy it
7:48 maybe the light side would be PRO-active abilities and healing would be Re-active?
On the first few watches TFA had its issues, but honestly, it left me excited for a more. Maybe just to get figure out the unanswered questions but then where those questions led made me despise it along with the rest of the trilogy
I don't know how Rian Johnson could have been so selfish. He threw all the plot development from the first film, destroying the ongoing continuity, so that he could put in his own half-baked ideas.
He said in an interview that he was glad people hated his movie. He somehow sees it as a good thing.
Hey Thor. When I was old enough to start thinking about Star Wars I noticed one of my favorite character arcs was Wedge Antilles, who has very minimal screen time. Are there any other “background characters” that have interesting stories or plot lines that get missed?
Hey Thor, just for fun if you could have a non-canon movie/limited series featuring a crossover with the Star Wars galaxy and any other franchise (whether it’s currently owned by Disney or not), what would it be? What characters would you have in it (from anywhere in that franchise’s respective timeline), and what would the gist of the movie/series be?
Hey Thor! Do you think the prequels could've been better told in 4 movies instead of 3?
Given the time jump between Phantom Menace and Attack if the Clones and how jumbled up Episode II is I can't help but like the idea.
One movie to show Qui-Gon, finding Anakin, and Palpatine's first step with the following "trilogy" being about the Clone Wars. Not to mention how nice would it be to see 10 episodes in a boxset rather than 9
By now, everyone has their own ideas for how the sequels could have gone, and all of them are better than what we got. For TFA, I would have gotten rid of the Starkiller Base nonsense first. It could have been a more modest terroristic attack by the New Empire against the Republic, thwarted by a Rebel raid against the NE's strike fleet. Just a simple, concise, and effective plotline. Second, Luke could have recognized Rey when she arrived at his retreat, opening up more questions to be answered in the next movies, and explaining why R2 chose to wake up when he did - because Rey was now ready to meet the old Master again. Just one of a thousand ideas that I think would have all improved the sequels.
Last Jedi was a kid janking the knife and laughing like an idiot while stating "it's just a prank bro" - but go on.
We’re just going to talk about how the sequels are bad for 20 years, aren’t we? Then the kids that saw these films will, as adults, tell us they’re great - and the clowns that knowingly ignore the incompetence of the prequels will wonder why this is.
As someone who grew up with the prequels, my generation knew that the PT was not as good as the OT. We bashed it as well when we were teenagers. However the prequels had a good foundation. The Clone Wars show flushed it out. That's why my generation looks back at the PT and defends it because it was decent when you ignored the bad acting.
@@alekino26 Honestly the acting doesn't even seem that bad anymore. The only thing that still "Jars" me a bit is the Gungans and how childish they are. But they mostly serve in a movie about a Child, so...point to Lucas, I suppose.
The difference between the PT and ST is GEORGE you may not like the PT but the story and themes blow the ST out of the water.
If you took away the social media and RUclips and whatever like it was around the prequel time and went off what movie critics said the sequel trilogy was so amazing and it's the same but opposite for the prequel trilogy the movie critics said they was crap and thats mostly all people had to go off if the prequel trilogy had social media and RUclips like we do now it may have been a different story so don't go around calling people clowns for liking something weather it's the prequels or the sequels people can like whatever they want without being called clowns
You hit it on the head. I really enjoyed Ep 7 when it came out. It had a lot of issues, but I still enjoyed it. After 8 & 9, I basically hate all 3 now.
Yeah, that line from Yoda about death was delivered badly, and is conveyed even worse in Acolyte🤢. Like I've said, we almost need to hear someone explain Buddhism's philosophy on clinging to desired outcomes to get it. It's always interpreted as to mean something bad.
I feel like it's unavoidable that a jedi will morn. Maybe Jedi need to be told "you have a bleeding heart, but you can't/shouldn't try fixing everything." They should accept the circumstances that aren't caused by maliciousness, or aren't in a jedi's job description, too. When death occurs from age, disease, something that doesn't "want" to kill it is natural, but war and murder is tragic (I guess that bit goes without saying). They shouldn't have a stone heart. Just steal nerves.
I've been saying this forever, a major lesson from Star Wars is Learning to Let Go.
If we look at the OT, Obiwan teaches Luke to follow his instincts and overcome his weaknesses. Yoda teaches Luke that death is a part of the cycle of life, and that we should let go of our fears to avoid falling into darkness. Vader shows Luke that people can change once they let go of thier power and selfishness.
In the PT, Quigon explains to Obiwan to be patient and mindful of the situation at hand instead of preemptively acting. In AOTC We see Anakin's struggle to follow in the footsteps of Quigon and keeps his inner hatred hidden from Obiwan. His Obsession with power makes him confess to Padme that he is being held back and is treated like a child. Refusing to let go of his mothers destiny led him to massacering an entire Village. Refusing to let go of his lust leads to a secret marriage that he tries to hide. Lastly, Anakins downfall to the dark side is a result of refusing to let go of his fear of loosing Padme.
To sum it up, George Lucas created Star Wars as a coming-of-age story, one of those messages being allowing yourslef to let go of any grudges, fears, anger, hate, and obsessions because they destroy you from inside.
@@MaxRamos8 I agree with all that.
And it's one of the reasons I feel Jedi: Fallen Order captured the essence of Star Wars, though some people have solid criticisms against it. The story resonated with me not just because he delt with depression, lacking/finding a reason to move forward, and connecting with others and oneself again, but it was about moving on and growing as a person. I'm in my early twenties, I was eighteen when I started watching the playthroughs, and I just heard a lot of things I needed to hear. It wasn't "just have hope" kind of encouragement, it was "I know what you're dealing with, here is someone working through it" kinda encouragement.
Also, the references and familiar places are there because Cal is reflecting on and confronting his experiences, and Dathomir is just a good visualization of what a place or person consumed by hate, vengeance and grief looks like. It is still all about taking the next step, healing, and choosing a new life.
It didn't depend on familiarity or nostalgia, the way Survivor threatened to, imo. Lots of Separatist tech, Clone Wars show droid voices killed the mood, the inclusion of High Republic stuff was sus but I accept it.
Can we get Joe Kosinski, Andrew Stanton, and Brad Bird to direct the next trilogy?
Such good memories of getting stoned in my garage and watching your theory videos after episode 7. Such a let down after that.
Force healing has been a part of Star Wars since it was introduced into the Star Wars Roleplaying Game in 1987 and, I’m pretty sure, has been a part of every edition of the game since. Just sayin.
Imma make one little correction on that analogy. The decanonization of the expanded universe was the stabbing because it took away tons of lore, but Disney could fix it with their own stories. The force awakens was pulling the knife out because the story was a rehash but there's still room for interesting stories. The last jedi was putting the knife back in because no one was ever excited for whatever Disney would do next. The only reason people were still around to watch their stuff is because they have a false hope that somehow Disney will turn things around. I think it's pretty clear tho that they won't.
Honestly, nowadays there is no more hope for Star Wars, it is better to focus on projects made or proposed by fans, such as the work of Everest Productions (Plagueis being the best), and your proposal for a sequel trilogy that you were unable to complete.
I say that’s black pilled garbage.
I think the difference between Jedi healing and Dark side healing is where the live force comes from. Jedi healing involves you giving your own life force to heal another, The Sith heal by taking the Life Force from another.
Nah, never happened.