Spoilers! They're super nice to Sunbeam and they actually start to act a lot nicer in general when Nightheart comes back bc when they got over their shock and anger, they realized they missed Nightheart and were too mean to him
One thing I’ve learned from warrior cats is no matter how bad the cats error was, the other cat will forgive them in like two seconds. EG: Nightheart hurts Sunbeam by leaving her for his clan and like an hour later she joins his clan. Also, Onestar literally had a child with someone who wasn’t his mate and a couple hours later his mate and daughter are literally just like “you made a mistake but that’s ok!” Proving those characters are just there because of Onestar.
5:34 "like a brother to me" sunbeam says about her cousin... erin hunter really needs a full family tree in front of them when writing these books because they keep forgetting that certain cats are closely related
I do know some people consider their cousins to be more like siblings to them, like my best friend who is an only child and told me she considers her cousins to be the closest she’s ever had to siblings. But the Erins do have a major problem with not keeping up with family trees and who’s closely related to who
@@starstorm1267 the context of sunbeam saying flaxfoot is like a brother to her is because she was thinking about toms who could potentially be her mate since blazefire rejected her. the book is presenting the idea that flaxfoot could be a potential mate if sunbeam didn't think of him as a brother, while completely ignoring the fact that he shouldn't be considered a potential mate because he's her cousin. i do agree that cousins can be like siblings to some people, but in this case it's just the books almost having accidental incest again because the authors forgot that two cats are related
IDK about "spy" per say. But I do suspect Sunbeam might become a secondary antagonist. With one big reason why I don't trust her is her dream sequence, which felt eeirly similar to Mapleshade's Vengeance's Gathering scene. In _Vengeance_ we see Mapleshade get furious at Reedshine for talking to Appledusk and think to herself "He's mine!". In _Shadow_ Sunbeam got furious at the white she-cat for being with Night, tried to yell "Nightheart is mine!" and launched herself at the white cat (though she woke up before she could land a single blow). Now, normally I would've brushed this off as a coincidence, but seeing how this far Starless Clan have gone out of its way to mention old details about the series (eg Nightheart knowing about WindClan tunnelers or Cloverfoot mentioning that Mistystar had decorated her den with shells and feathers) I'm not entierly sure this isn't also intentional. It definitely could be, but I'm not fully convinced it is.
I actually really love this concept. She’s likely developing some very toxic possessiveness due to what happened with Blazefire, and if it happens again with Nightheart (he’s been VERY wishy-washy with his feelings for her) I wouldn’t be surprised if she became a sort of anti-hero.
I somehow doubt Mapleshade's gathering scene was ever meant to show her as possesive, merely act jealous from a fairly romantic gesture from Reedshine. But because we have some other writers now, Ashfur being pretty much acknowledged to have been outright possesive and obsessive, and Mapleshade having no real conclusive end to her, I'd like to think there is a chance this is a possibility. It would be definetly an intresting pararell considering Mapleshade's thing is effectively being actively disilussioned by the warrior code or the notion that her chidren's wellbeing would be ever considered let alone herself. (As much as I have gripes with that one weird line at the beggining of MV's about kits being a proof of love and it contextually being *correct* in the series, it's also one hell of a shattering of the belief of a pure family, as Reedshine is visibly pregnant already about 3 days after Mapleshade's kits die, and her novella remarks this.) And this entire arc is about the dissiullusionment regarding the code, it would definetly be relevant to bring up how individuals are sacrificed for a stupid notion of purity. But I also have my serious doubts that the writing team would both realize it and execute it well.
despite how unlikely this is, i so desperately wanted antagonist sunbeam manipulated by berryheart to join her group. i hate sunbeam x nightheart solely on the basis of what it does to sunbeam’s character, and having something like that happen would’ve somewhat made up for the derailment of sunbeam’s arc.
Absolutely. I thought for sure that after Nightheart broke it off that she would have become jaded and cynical like her mom, at least for a little while.
@@sunniwithani me too! i think this would’ve been super interesting. maybe they’ll do something like this though i’m doubtful based on the previews and their track record
@@Silvermoon32109 as annoyed as i am by it, i’m not super surprised given the patterns over avos, tbc, and now asc. and shafting female characters for the sake of their love interests has been an unfortunate trend from the start 🫠
I have always taken Sunbeam and Nightheart to be intentionally set up to be a foil to Rootspring and Bristlefrost. Whereas Rootspring and Bristlefrost put thought into their relationship and whether one should leave their clan to live with the other, Nightheart and Sunbeam both leave their clan impulsively and use the relationship to escape their problems. Lightleap even has a line about knowing Blazefire was the one because she was willing to lose her best friend over it. I believe they are intentionally foreshadowing that Sunbeam will have a moment where she realizes she doesn’t want to lose her friends and family in Shadowclan and will return. And I hope, given Nightheart and Sunbeam do care about each other, we get a healthy breakup in the text with both of them ultimately caring but knowing the relationship doesn’t work. It’d be nice.
I want Ivypool to be a bit antagonistic to Sunpool. Not in a full xenophobic way like Barb. More like "You left your family. Think about how they must feel"
That would be AMAZING. It sadly won’t happen most likely, but it would really work well with Ivypool’s unresolved conflict with Dovewing outright abandoning her family, and her seeing ANOTHER cat do it AGAIN right after her daughter (who was ALSO willing to leave her clan for a tom) double died. That would be extreme and would certainly give a good reason for Ivypool to be a bit of a “yucky shadowclan” cat to Sunbeam
I’m literally FUMING right now because we were this close to having an evil protagonist (when sunbeam said her mother was right about everything and codebreakers were evil) and now we have another all forgiving she cat that has her whole storyline revolving around her soon to be mate
In my head bristlefrost was evil tbh I wanted her to be evil SO BADLY working with the resistance while secretly working with the imposter as well Betraying both of them Unhealthy obsession with stemleaf Relationship with rootspring purely as manipulation I needed evil bristlefrost omfg I would love if we had a REAL evil protagonist (or even one like hollyleaf) in nightheart based on where I can see his arc going (frostpaw being evil is also an amazing option but they'd never do it) I can see sunbeam having some sort of "evil" arc but being "showed the true ways and breaking free from the manipulation 🥺🥺" is what would probably happen with that
it would be cool if she was a spy, but they probably wouldn't do it. i hope in thunder that sunbeam interacts with some thunderclan cats while nightheart's gone on his mission and isn't just crying that nightheart isnt there
I want to know ideas on why Hollyleaf helped the fox instead of just making it leave the tunnels. Edit: I didn't specify here, but this is something I would like Moonkitti to talk about as well, since she usually gets the most logical theory out of things like this.
You all have interesting points! So I’m weaving it into some kind of sense: Holly saw the fox cub stuck in the tunnels and helped raise it for a day, then she let it free, but when it attacked Cherry and Mole, she called it off. But eventually the fox turned on her (shown in Hollyleaf’s Story).
my issue with antagonistic sunbeam is that i feel like people want it to happen because they think sunbeam dating nightheart is a detriment to her character, but i honestly don't see how being an antagonist would improve her character in any way. i feel like if she were made into an antagonist, her character would just be further butchered by the narrative instead f having any sort of improvement and i don't want that
Character development isn't always an upwards incline! There are plenty of literature, especially adult literature, where characters have negative arcs and become antagonistic to some degree and it's interesting when handled well.
@@inkylynx2777 Butchered as in ruin, her turning evil would mess with her character more. Personally, I want a she-cat that is a girl boss without a mate and isn't instantly dead like Hollyleaf, or controlling and evil.
About the "killing a protagonist" spoilers: I want to see them actually do it. And not the Dark Forest perma-death or pretend they don't exist for the rest of the arc, I want to see what it's like inside StarClan. Imagine this: the main thing going on inside the plot is a cat going around killing apprentices. Filler name Butterflypaw witnesses the murderer doing their thing, but gets caught and is also killed. They wake up in StarClan, knowing who their murderer was (perhaps it was someone in their Clan, or a well-known cat from another Clan). Butterflypaw's goal now is to warn other apprentices, and whether the rest of StarClan wants them to or not, they're willing to show up in the dreams of all the apprentices to do it. *Think about the aftermath of that plot.* A bunch of apprentices have essentially the same dream warning them about this particular cat, the medicine cats trying to figure out why this was a big enough deal to tell them exactly who this cat was, and the now-dead Butterflypaw possibly going ghost mode to try and avoid punishment from the other StarClan cats because they decided to directly intervene with the world like StarClan hasn't done that before. And maybe Butterflypaw made a huge shared dream and every 6-moon-old cat (accounting for any new possible apprentices) showed up there and was told about this murderer: they could have "taken it too far" in StarClan's eyes, and become the first exiled/rogue spirit to ever be in the series on account of them being forced to leave. But to the living cats, they're a hero for stopping further apprentice murders and could possibly be defended by the living Clans because of it! After all, the Erins have already accidentally been building an Evil StarClan plot, why not just use it at this point?
This is such an interesting concept, one that I've seen more than once in fanfiction comics (or at least a similar "protagonist is in starclan" plotline), and I'd love to see in the actual series. I'm not sure the erins would do that, but it would seriously be so cool
OOTS destroyed the view of StarClan as a mystical, all-knowing, benevolent deity. And ever since then, they've been boring as hell. The most interesting thing that they did since then was disappear in TBC. I'm attracted to the idea of a morally gray StarClan. Like perhaps they don't all get along and disagree on what they should do. Yellowfang is already a jackass and a bully, so it makes sense that other members would behave similarly. They aren't bad enough to be sent to the Dark Forest, but they still aren't infallible.
something im just realziing is that despite having three protagonists (again),none of them ever really interact with each other outside of nightheart and sunbeam. if these plotlines are so supposedly interconnected,it sure would be nice to have each character have a conversation with their counterpart
Wait, don't Splashtail and Berryheart interact in Shadow? With the whole "sneaking out of their clan to meet up somewhere" scene? Istg I remember Berryheart being there
I do hope that these theories at least show the writing team that we want something like this. I’d love another book like mapleshades vengeance where the narrator is unreliable, Especially in a book where with multiple povs in different clans like the latest main series books. Having a character tell us something about what’s happening in a certain clan and presenting it to us as if it’s true, but in other povs showing us that the events were wildly different. I’d love to read a book where we slowly realize that the characters the interpretation of events is inaccurate because what we are reading is the characters interpretation of events. I want the twist to be that through their own thoughts we were being actively manipulated because we only see things through the lens of this flawed mindset. Like how mapleshade interprets frecklewishes lack of action as her purposely causing her kits death even though that was Not necessarily the case based on the context that mapleshade Chooses to ignore. The pov character doesn’t even have to be the villain necessarily, it would be easier to write but not as satisfying as personal conflict and flawed actions caused by flawed characters who are doing what they see as write.
To those who are afraid Sunbeam's going to be nothing more than a love interest by the end of the arc, maybe what should give you hope is the blurb for Thunder saying their relationship has problems. There's still time to break up. (crosses fingers)
There is no way Fernstripe is facing no opposition in ThunderClan. There are cats who you'd expect to be quite mean to her including Shellfur's own parents and especially Blossomfall. (Does anyone else want a Shellfur novella? I can head-canon that Stemleaf's death was a wake up call that the world wasn't as simple as he thought and the beginning of an ongoing character arc. But it would be nice to actually see what's going on there.) There's even more cats who probably wouldn't, if written in character, be actively mean to her but would be uncomfortable with how unconcerned the Clans have become with divided loyalties and have a hard time being supportive. (Poppyfrost, her offspring, Lionblaze and Ivypool come to mind.) We didn't hear about it because Nightheart was the POV and it doesn't directly affect him so he doesn't pay it much attention. Now maybe with Sunbeam there, we will, and ThunderClan won't come out looking so superior.
One thing that bothers me about how old cats are in Warriors is how people mistakenly say 12 moons is a years when there are 13 moons in a year if you've ever actually looked at a lunar calendar, so a lot of cats ages get calculated incorrectly. EDIT to break down the math, the moon's cycle repeats about every 28 days. 365.25 days per year /28 days per moon= 13.045 moons per year. The 0.25 part of 365.25 is to account for the leap day every 4 years
Apparently the moon cycles at ~29.53 days which would be ~12.36 moons per year but that is like an extra 10.6 days at the end of the year that isn't being accounted for when we calculate the ages of characters Edit: and a Year is in fact ~365.2422 days long which puts it closer to ~12.37 moons per year. This would make for example make Squirrelflight ~9.62 years old compared to the ~9.92 years old listed on te wiki which is almost 4 months less
I never thought they were actually talking about literal moons lol I always thought they called months moons because you gotta have something the cats can call time sequences
Heacanon; the dream of Nightheart with a Silverstream clone was a dream from StarClan(specifically Silverstream) to show Sunbeam how much she really loved Nightheart and to encourage her to follow her heart.
At this point I really only care about Squirrelflight becoming leader. She NEEDS to be leader, she deserves it so much after all the shit she’s been though
Idk what to think. The Erin’s have a lot of potential with her, but they tend to write Squirrelflight as extremely childish and impulsive. It’ll make for interesting conflicts tho
I want to hear your opinions on Shadowsight and the way TBC forever damaged the medicine cat lore. He is introduced in AVOS as a cat with an unusual connection to Starclan to then being a cat whi never had a connection and only being a pon to Ashfur(even though it doesn't make sense that he managed to hear his messages despite not having a connection to the dead) for then explaining to Frostpaw in Shadow that he had an overpowered connection that Starclan then removed. I have never seen such inconsistent writing ever. Plus I don't understand labeling him weird when in reality he behaves normally.
yeah, the reality is that shadowsight NEVER had a connection to starclan and ashfur had been speaking to him directly since the day he was born - that doesn’t require any connection to the dead, it just requires tenacity from ashfur. i think one thing people never make enough of a deal of is the fact that ashfur was with shadowsight from the time he was BORN. he had obviously been searching for the perfect victim, waiting and watching and perfectly content to continue waiting for however long it took; maybe he had a look at some other potential cats before deciding they wouldn’t work, maybe he was just very good at waiting. but the point is: ashfur didn’t just start interacting with shadowsight when he was an apprentice and began receiving his visions concerning the codebreakers - he had been there FROM THE BEGINNING. HE was the one to tell shadowkit to throw himself into the river to unite the clans. HE was the one who gave shadowkit his seizures. he had been playing the long-con from the very beginning, because he knew that the only way to get the cat he needed into a position of respect and power was to have him do something that would prove to all of the clans that he was special and chosen. he had to save the clans to destroy the clans. he was PATIENT. and for them to then forget that CRUCIAL detail of shadowsight’s story is appalling.
@@fozzyspots and kinda brush it off, blame Shadowsight for everything, even shame him afterwards. It angers me everytime Warriora does this thing where they make the clans all made at someone but, if it's a bad cat, they wait several moons to do something. EX: Shadowsight is used by Ashfur. He realizes he's been tricked and reveals the truth. Instantly demoted, dishonored, a disgrace to Shadowclan, enough for Mothwing to change her personality entirely to bully him. Meanwhile, Tigerstar literally invades Riverclan, threatens to kill a cat if he doesn't get undeserved compliance from the poor cats, and is reprimanded until Icewing decides she's special enough to speak for all of Riverclan and Leafstar lets it go temporarily. It feels like stalling by the writers. Tigerstar is literally in the wrong. I had to stop reading because I was so mad by the plot constantly favoring the needed narrative.
It would be interesting, but doesn't fit her character unfortunately. Perhaps we'll get another bristlefrost moment and sunbeam won't survive this arc, Perhaps being killed by berryheart, nobody would expect that.
A dragon in warrior cats would spice things up tbh Edit to actually comment on the video topic lol I think that it would be an interesting idea but CANON warrior cats? No way!
Damn I would have loved if Sunbeam was so heartbroken and wrenched that she clung onto Berryheart’s ideals and agreed with her, joining forces with her. I am now grieving what could have been orz
I'm gonna be honest the second she joined Thunderclan I didn't doubt her intentions for a millisecond lol I guess it is a big jump to go from maybe berryheart was right... to I LOVE YOU NIGHTHEART.... KITTY KISSES :333
Your thoughts on if there will be a voting a leader out of power this arc? If there is I’m thinking it’ll have to be WindClan and we’ll have Squirrelstar and Crowstar at the same time.
If they do I doubt it'd be WindClan since we wouldn't have a POV for it unless they pull a Flametail so I think it'd more likely be ThunderClan or ShadowClan unfortunately 💔💔
People act like she has no reason to go to ThunderClan when only a chapter before she was torn between her morals and being loyal to ShadoeClan. Nightheart is a scapegoat. She's not a spy, and she's not blindly following him. It's a reverse Nightheart
8:50 i stg, after ALL the screeching ive been doing about squilf "for sure" becoming leader, if she doesnt or its made out to be a bad thing, imma be real mad
Gosh. For the longest time after I got out of this fandom, I reverted to thinking warrior cats was dumb and childish and that Harry Potter was the best. I love this series so much and I hate Harry Potter now. Thank StarClan I've got my sense back
I was here thinking I'd read all books of the last arc and when I read the comments, I felt lost and then remembered I'd left Shadow in the middle. It's been a while since I last entered something related to the fandom
I kinda dont like Sunbeam x Nightheart, its like rootspring and Bristlefrost 2.0 But I dont think that Sunbeam is a spy. She is just used as a love interest. And used by Nightheart. But it would be interesting for her to become one.
Rootbristle actually had some development as they actually seemed like they loved each other and were willing to give up each others clans for each other although Bristlesfrosts confession comes out of nowhere. Sunbeam and Nightheart is soo… forced. Like they had like three conversations together and then they suddenly are in love enough to become mates. And they don’t really seem like they actually love each other their relationship is so forced.
I'm still hoping that they'll break up. Clearly their relationship isn't going that well and I have a feeling it's not gonna work out because Nightheart is gonna be too busy with the park cats and Sunbeam is gonna be too worried about her mom
@@SaraMoustamandi yeah like rootspring was always the last thing on her mind and she made it clear she only liked him as a friend so that confession kindve came out of left field but at least they actually cared about each other eventually unlike sunbeam and Nightheart
I feel like it would be better if Sunbeam left Shadowclan because of all the stuff going on in Shadowclan (her mom and Tigerheartstar) and choosing Thunderclan because she's heard they're pretty chill. And I want her to be upset as Nightheart the same way she was as Lightleap
Id be cool if she was a spy but theres just not really enough reason for her to be so i doubt the erins would. She has shown no hate towards nightheart or thunderclan.
not to be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist but i can buy sunbeam working with her mother a la bristlefrost working for the imposter, although bristlefrost became a double agent right away to my understanding (I have not read a single warrior cats book outside of the original series and some of the mangas when i was like 16). Antagonist arguably, spy definitely, but not evil if the tinfoil hat theory is true.
I'm almost 100% certain that I won't read this arc. Maybe I'll read arc 9 once it comes out, idk, but nothing I've heard of arc 8 has made me want to read it. So...I decided to watch this video despite the spoilers. It sounds like the fans imagined a cool continuation to the story and the authors will probably once again go for the boring option instead.
I hope that sparkpelt does be mean bc it added something extra to the books and it was very good for drama. Also I don’t think sunbeam is a spy bc they did it last series but you know warrior cats
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I love how you can just tell who's saying this at 0:09
(it's Icewing)
plot twist: icewing isn't even an icewing, she's actually a secret tribe we've never seen before
I 100% AGRÉE!
I'm so scared for Finchlight man I need ONE protagonist's sister character to beat the "xenophobic to make my brother look better" allegations
Hehe same, though, she might be safe since the Erins r prob gonna throw their ignorance towards Sparkpelt. Either way, im still disappointed.
@@tvvggpavansingaraju1l452 spoilers!!!
Finchlight and sparkpelt are pretty nice to sunbeam in the book.
Spoilers!
They're super nice to Sunbeam and they actually start to act a lot nicer in general when Nightheart comes back bc when they got over their shock and anger, they realized they missed Nightheart and were too mean to him
One thing I’ve learned from warrior cats is no matter how bad the cats error was, the other cat will forgive them in like two seconds. EG: Nightheart hurts Sunbeam by leaving her for his clan and like an hour later she joins his clan. Also, Onestar literally had a child with someone who wasn’t his mate and a couple hours later his mate and daughter are literally just like “you made a mistake but that’s ok!” Proving those characters are just there because of Onestar.
Fr
In defense of the Onestar part I think that was supposed to have been long before he had a mate or daughter? It still should have been a bigger deal
@@mothswithheadphones9363 he had a mate while he was with smoke
Unless your Squirrelflight and Leafpool
@@imgonnamunchimgonnacrunch4656 true but even then they were given a lot of grace for what they did.
5:34 "like a brother to me" sunbeam says about her cousin... erin hunter really needs a full family tree in front of them when writing these books because they keep forgetting that certain cats are closely related
Kind of hard to do for ShadowClan when a majority of them are related to Snowbird.
I do know some people consider their cousins to be more like siblings to them, like my best friend who is an only child and told me she considers her cousins to be the closest she’s ever had to siblings. But the Erins do have a major problem with not keeping up with family trees and who’s closely related to who
@@starstorm1267 the context of sunbeam saying flaxfoot is like a brother to her is because she was thinking about toms who could potentially be her mate since blazefire rejected her. the book is presenting the idea that flaxfoot could be a potential mate if sunbeam didn't think of him as a brother, while completely ignoring the fact that he shouldn't be considered a potential mate because he's her cousin. i do agree that cousins can be like siblings to some people, but in this case it's just the books almost having accidental incest again because the authors forgot that two cats are related
IDK about "spy" per say. But I do suspect Sunbeam might become a secondary antagonist. With one big reason why I don't trust her is her dream sequence, which felt eeirly similar to Mapleshade's Vengeance's Gathering scene.
In _Vengeance_ we see Mapleshade get furious at Reedshine for talking to Appledusk and think to herself "He's mine!".
In _Shadow_ Sunbeam got furious at the white she-cat for being with Night, tried to yell "Nightheart is mine!" and launched herself at the white cat (though she woke up before she could land a single blow).
Now, normally I would've brushed this off as a coincidence, but seeing how this far Starless Clan have gone out of its way to mention old details about the series (eg Nightheart knowing about WindClan tunnelers or Cloverfoot mentioning that Mistystar had decorated her den with shells and feathers) I'm not entierly sure this isn't also intentional. It definitely could be, but I'm not fully convinced it is.
God I REALLY hope she doesn’t become an antagonist, rather I hope nightheart becomes a secondary antagonist, he fits the bill better imo
I would find it very interesting if the books directly compared Sunbeam's actions to Mapleshade's. But unfortunately they didn't which is sad.
I actually really love this concept. She’s likely developing some very toxic possessiveness due to what happened with Blazefire, and if it happens again with Nightheart (he’s been VERY wishy-washy with his feelings for her) I wouldn’t be surprised if she became a sort of anti-hero.
I somehow doubt Mapleshade's gathering scene was ever meant to show her as possesive, merely act jealous from a fairly romantic gesture from Reedshine. But because we have some other writers now, Ashfur being pretty much acknowledged to have been outright possesive and obsessive, and Mapleshade having no real conclusive end to her, I'd like to think there is a chance this is a possibility.
It would be definetly an intresting pararell considering Mapleshade's thing is effectively being actively disilussioned by the warrior code or the notion that her chidren's wellbeing would be ever considered let alone herself. (As much as I have gripes with that one weird line at the beggining of MV's about kits being a proof of love and it contextually being *correct* in the series, it's also one hell of a shattering of the belief of a pure family, as Reedshine is visibly pregnant already about 3 days after Mapleshade's kits die, and her novella remarks this.)
And this entire arc is about the dissiullusionment regarding the code, it would definetly be relevant to bring up how individuals are sacrificed for a stupid notion of purity. But I also have my serious doubts that the writing team would both realize it and execute it well.
Oh, good theory. I hope they do something with these two to shake things up, it's been way too boring so far.
despite how unlikely this is, i so desperately wanted antagonist sunbeam manipulated by berryheart to join her group. i hate sunbeam x nightheart solely on the basis of what it does to sunbeam’s character, and having something like that happen would’ve somewhat made up for the derailment of sunbeam’s arc.
Absolutely. I thought for sure that after Nightheart broke it off that she would have become jaded and cynical like her mom, at least for a little while.
I'm just in disbelief that they copied rootxbriss to the exact point in which the female character becomes a opinion less love zombie for the guy
@@sunniwithani me too! i think this would’ve been super interesting. maybe they’ll do something like this though i’m doubtful based on the previews and their track record
@@Silvermoon32109 as annoyed as i am by it, i’m not super surprised given the patterns over avos, tbc, and now asc. and shafting female characters for the sake of their love interests has been an unfortunate trend from the start 🫠
I have always taken Sunbeam and Nightheart to be intentionally set up to be a foil to Rootspring and Bristlefrost. Whereas Rootspring and Bristlefrost put thought into their relationship and whether one should leave their clan to live with the other, Nightheart and Sunbeam both leave their clan impulsively and use the relationship to escape their problems.
Lightleap even has a line about knowing Blazefire was the one because she was willing to lose her best friend over it. I believe they are intentionally foreshadowing that Sunbeam will have a moment where she realizes she doesn’t want to lose her friends and family in Shadowclan and will return.
And I hope, given Nightheart and Sunbeam do care about each other, we get a healthy breakup in the text with both of them ultimately caring but knowing the relationship doesn’t work. It’d be nice.
Yeah, I really hope they don’t get/stay together by the end of this.
A mutual break up in warriors would be sooooo good
I want Ivypool to be a bit antagonistic to Sunpool. Not in a full xenophobic way like Barb. More like "You left your family. Think about how they must feel"
That would be AMAZING. It sadly won’t happen most likely, but it would really work well with Ivypool’s unresolved conflict with Dovewing outright abandoning her family, and her seeing ANOTHER cat do it AGAIN right after her daughter (who was ALSO willing to leave her clan for a tom) double died. That would be extreme and would certainly give a good reason for Ivypool to be a bit of a “yucky shadowclan” cat to Sunbeam
@@waddle..666 Don't forget about Twigbranch. Ivypool was mad when she left for Skyclan for a bit
@@Hadeshy shoot I forgot about that, everybody leaving ivypool 😭😭
Frostpaw I have something to tell you I'm a dragon"
-dragonbeam 2023
I’m literally FUMING right now because we were this close to having an evil protagonist (when sunbeam said her mother was right about everything and codebreakers were evil) and now we have another all forgiving she cat that has her whole storyline revolving around her soon to be mate
In my head bristlefrost was evil tbh
I wanted her to be evil SO BADLY
working with the resistance while secretly working with the imposter as well
Betraying both of them
Unhealthy obsession with stemleaf
Relationship with rootspring purely as manipulation
I needed evil bristlefrost omfg
I would love if we had a REAL evil protagonist (or even one like hollyleaf) in nightheart based on where I can see his arc going (frostpaw being evil is also an amazing option but they'd never do it)
I can see sunbeam having some sort of "evil" arc but being "showed the true ways and breaking free from the manipulation 🥺🥺" is what would probably happen with that
it would be cool if she was a spy, but they probably wouldn't do it. i hope in thunder that sunbeam interacts with some thunderclan cats while nightheart's gone on his mission and isn't just crying that nightheart isnt there
As Sunbeam's mother I can confirm she is not a spy
@@Berryheartiscomingforyouthanks barb
i read the this title as "I think sunbeam is gay" and was extremely confused for a moment before the double-take
I WISH!!!
lightleap
I want to know ideas on why Hollyleaf helped the fox instead of just making it leave the tunnels.
Edit: I didn't specify here, but this is something I would like Moonkitti to talk about as well, since she usually gets the most logical theory out of things like this.
Maybe it reminded her of kits in her clan so she kept it for a little as a small reminder of her Clan life?
Lonely and sad. Would've loved to see Holly raise up the kit into a powerful friend and ally.
@@marymccann3500Instead of Sol being the person saving the kits from a fox, Hollyleaf just called her fox away from the kits 😌
You all have interesting points! So I’m weaving it into some kind of sense: Holly saw the fox cub stuck in the tunnels and helped raise it for a day, then she let it free, but when it attacked Cherry and Mole, she called it off. But eventually the fox turned on her (shown in Hollyleaf’s Story).
@@backbak100 "LITTLE RED! I raised you better than this! Put your teeth away, NOW!"
my issue with antagonistic sunbeam is that i feel like people want it to happen because they think sunbeam dating nightheart is a detriment to her character, but i honestly don't see how being an antagonist would improve her character in any way. i feel like if she were made into an antagonist, her character would just be further butchered by the narrative instead f having any sort of improvement and i don't want that
Character development isn't always an upwards incline! There are plenty of literature, especially adult literature, where characters have negative arcs and become antagonistic to some degree and it's interesting when handled well.
@@inkylynx2777 Butchered as in ruin, her turning evil would mess with her character more. Personally, I want a she-cat that is a girl boss without a mate and isn't instantly dead like Hollyleaf, or controlling and evil.
About the "killing a protagonist" spoilers: I want to see them actually do it. And not the Dark Forest perma-death or pretend they don't exist for the rest of the arc, I want to see what it's like inside StarClan.
Imagine this: the main thing going on inside the plot is a cat going around killing apprentices. Filler name Butterflypaw witnesses the murderer doing their thing, but gets caught and is also killed. They wake up in StarClan, knowing who their murderer was (perhaps it was someone in their Clan, or a well-known cat from another Clan). Butterflypaw's goal now is to warn other apprentices, and whether the rest of StarClan wants them to or not, they're willing to show up in the dreams of all the apprentices to do it.
*Think about the aftermath of that plot.* A bunch of apprentices have essentially the same dream warning them about this particular cat, the medicine cats trying to figure out why this was a big enough deal to tell them exactly who this cat was, and the now-dead Butterflypaw possibly going ghost mode to try and avoid punishment from the other StarClan cats because they decided to directly intervene with the world like StarClan hasn't done that before. And maybe Butterflypaw made a huge shared dream and every 6-moon-old cat (accounting for any new possible apprentices) showed up there and was told about this murderer: they could have "taken it too far" in StarClan's eyes, and become the first exiled/rogue spirit to ever be in the series on account of them being forced to leave. But to the living cats, they're a hero for stopping further apprentice murders and could possibly be defended by the living Clans because of it! After all, the Erins have already accidentally been building an Evil StarClan plot, why not just use it at this point?
This is such an interesting concept, one that I've seen more than once in fanfiction comics (or at least a similar "protagonist is in starclan" plotline), and I'd love to see in the actual series. I'm not sure the erins would do that, but it would seriously be so cool
OOTS destroyed the view of StarClan as a mystical, all-knowing, benevolent deity. And ever since then, they've been boring as hell. The most interesting thing that they did since then was disappear in TBC. I'm attracted to the idea of a morally gray StarClan. Like perhaps they don't all get along and disagree on what they should do. Yellowfang is already a jackass and a bully, so it makes sense that other members would behave similarly. They aren't bad enough to be sent to the Dark Forest, but they still aren't infallible.
something im just realziing is that despite having three protagonists (again),none of them ever really interact with each other outside of nightheart and sunbeam. if these plotlines are so supposedly interconnected,it sure would be nice to have each character have a conversation with their counterpart
Wait, don't Splashtail and Berryheart interact in Shadow? With the whole "sneaking out of their clan to meet up somewhere" scene? Istg I remember Berryheart being there
you are unfortunately going to be completely right about them redemonizing sparkpelt next book. i don't even want to think about it
I do hope that these theories at least show the writing team that we want something like this. I’d love another book like mapleshades vengeance where the narrator is unreliable, Especially in a book where with multiple povs in different clans like the latest main series books. Having a character tell us something about what’s happening in a certain clan and presenting it to us as if it’s true, but in other povs showing us that the events were wildly different. I’d love to read a book where we slowly realize that the characters the interpretation of events is inaccurate because what we are reading is the characters interpretation of events. I want the twist to be that through their own thoughts we were being actively manipulated because we only see things through the lens of this flawed mindset. Like how mapleshade interprets frecklewishes lack of action as her purposely causing her kits death even though that was Not necessarily the case based on the context that mapleshade Chooses to ignore. The pov character doesn’t even have to be the villain necessarily, it would be easier to write but not as satisfying as personal conflict and flawed actions caused by flawed characters who are doing what they see as write.
To those who are afraid Sunbeam's going to be nothing more than a love interest by the end of the arc, maybe what should give you hope is the blurb for Thunder saying their relationship has problems. There's still time to break up. (crosses fingers)
There is no way Fernstripe is facing no opposition in ThunderClan. There are cats who you'd expect to be quite mean to her including Shellfur's own parents and especially Blossomfall. (Does anyone else want a Shellfur novella? I can head-canon that Stemleaf's death was a wake up call that the world wasn't as simple as he thought and the beginning of an ongoing character arc. But it would be nice to actually see what's going on there.) There's even more cats who probably wouldn't, if written in character, be actively mean to her but would be uncomfortable with how unconcerned the Clans have become with divided loyalties and have a hard time being supportive. (Poppyfrost, her offspring, Lionblaze and Ivypool come to mind.) We didn't hear about it because Nightheart was the POV and it doesn't directly affect him so he doesn't pay it much attention. Now maybe with Sunbeam there, we will, and ThunderClan won't come out looking so superior.
One thing that bothers me about how old cats are in Warriors is how people mistakenly say 12 moons is a years when there are 13 moons in a year if you've ever actually looked at a lunar calendar, so a lot of cats ages get calculated incorrectly. EDIT to break down the math, the moon's cycle repeats about every 28 days. 365.25 days per year /28 days per moon= 13.045 moons per year. The 0.25 part of 365.25 is to account for the leap day every 4 years
Apparently the moon cycles at ~29.53 days which would be ~12.36 moons per year but that is like an extra 10.6 days at the end of the year that isn't being accounted for when we calculate the ages of characters Edit: and a Year is in fact ~365.2422 days long which puts it closer to ~12.37 moons per year. This would make for example make Squirrelflight ~9.62 years old compared to the ~9.92 years old listed on te wiki which is almost 4 months less
the authors write it as 12 moons=year so it's not a mistake, it's just canon
In the books moons are often how the cats refer to months, so usage of the lunar calendar is not accurate to the canon material
I never thought they were actually talking about literal moons lol
I always thought they called months moons because you gotta have something the cats can call time sequences
yess, a new Moonkitti video! Makes my Saturday better :)
agreed
@@rexisepici second this
Heacanon; the dream of Nightheart with a Silverstream clone was a dream from StarClan(specifically Silverstream) to show Sunbeam how much she really loved Nightheart and to encourage her to follow her heart.
At this point I really only care about Squirrelflight becoming leader. She NEEDS to be leader, she deserves it so much after all the shit she’s been though
*PREACH*
Idk what to think. The Erin’s have a lot of potential with her, but they tend to write Squirrelflight as extremely childish and impulsive. It’ll make for interesting conflicts tho
I want to hear your opinions on Shadowsight and the way TBC forever damaged the medicine cat lore. He is introduced in AVOS as a cat with an unusual connection to Starclan to then being a cat whi never had a connection and only being a pon to Ashfur(even though it doesn't make sense that he managed to hear his messages despite not having a connection to the dead) for then explaining to Frostpaw in Shadow that he had an overpowered connection that Starclan then removed. I have never seen such inconsistent writing ever. Plus I don't understand labeling him weird when in reality he behaves normally.
yeah, the reality is that shadowsight NEVER had a connection to starclan and ashfur had been speaking to him directly since the day he was born - that doesn’t require any connection to the dead, it just requires tenacity from ashfur.
i think one thing people never make enough of a deal of is the fact that ashfur was with shadowsight from the time he was BORN. he had obviously been searching for the perfect victim, waiting and watching and perfectly content to continue waiting for however long it took; maybe he had a look at some other potential cats before deciding they wouldn’t work, maybe he was just very good at waiting. but the point is: ashfur didn’t just start interacting with shadowsight when he was an apprentice and began receiving his visions concerning the codebreakers - he had been there FROM THE BEGINNING. HE was the one to tell shadowkit to throw himself into the river to unite the clans. HE was the one who gave shadowkit his seizures. he had been playing the long-con from the very beginning, because he knew that the only way to get the cat he needed into a position of respect and power was to have him do something that would prove to all of the clans that he was special and chosen. he had to save the clans to destroy the clans. he was PATIENT.
and for them to then forget that CRUCIAL detail of shadowsight’s story is appalling.
@@fozzyspots and kinda brush it off, blame Shadowsight for everything, even shame him afterwards. It angers me everytime Warriora does this thing where they make the clans all made at someone but, if it's a bad cat, they wait several moons to do something.
EX:
Shadowsight is used by Ashfur. He realizes he's been tricked and reveals the truth. Instantly demoted, dishonored, a disgrace to Shadowclan, enough for Mothwing to change her personality entirely to bully him.
Meanwhile, Tigerstar literally invades Riverclan, threatens to kill a cat if he doesn't get undeserved compliance from the poor cats, and is reprimanded until Icewing decides she's special enough to speak for all of Riverclan and Leafstar lets it go temporarily. It feels like stalling by the writers. Tigerstar is literally in the wrong.
I had to stop reading because I was so mad by the plot constantly favoring the needed narrative.
I’m just worried about SquirrelFlight becoming SquirrelStar and whether or not They’ll let her
Bold of you to assume they won't sacrifice brambleclaw to make him look like a goody two shoes
Yessss a new moonkitti video, I’ve already binged almost every single video on this channel
It would be interesting, but doesn't fit her character unfortunately. Perhaps we'll get another bristlefrost moment and sunbeam won't survive this arc, Perhaps being killed by berryheart, nobody would expect that.
@@Shadowfate93 true
@@Shadowfate93dead husband for equality
@@Shadowfate93 nightheart is too important. Characters kin to firestar are basically untouchable.
@@ChaptersOfDeceitBristlefrost: Am I a joke to you?
Hoping nightheart dies tbh
Sunbeam is literally Rapunzel, nobody can tell me otherwise
A dragon in warrior cats would spice things up tbh
Edit to actually comment on the video topic lol
I think that it would be an interesting idea but CANON warrior cats? No way!
I love sunbeam and her reality show life
"His laugh is so cute" lmao
I’ve always been happy to see a new Moonkitti video but it’s even better now that I’m a patreon.
You should talk about waffle paw, who is going to be released in thunder.
Sunbeam and Lightleap should totally just date eachother
YES, NEW MOONKITII VIDEO
oh dammit it's about an arc I still need to read.
Me too bro
Damn I would have loved if Sunbeam was so heartbroken and wrenched that she clung onto Berryheart’s ideals and agreed with her, joining forces with her. I am now grieving what could have been orz
Yaey new moonkitti video ❤❤
Thanks for being in the community!
I'm gonna be honest the second she joined Thunderclan I didn't doubt her intentions for a millisecond lol
I guess it is a big jump to go from maybe berryheart was right... to I LOVE YOU NIGHTHEART.... KITTY KISSES :333
Your thoughts on if there will be a voting a leader out of power this arc? If there is I’m thinking it’ll have to be WindClan and we’ll have Squirrelstar and Crowstar at the same time.
Praying we have squirrelstar becoming real, she deserves leader.
If they do I doubt it'd be WindClan since we wouldn't have a POV for it unless they pull a Flametail so I think it'd more likely be ThunderClan or ShadowClan unfortunately 💔💔
I hope they do, it would be really interesting if they used the new rule!!
@@femaleauthority It'll most likely be a Riverclan voting out their new leader whoever it may be
I love it when you talk about.
Thank you for the spoiler warning at the start!
Finally now that Nightheart is gone Sunbeam and Finchlight can start dating
People act like she has no reason to go to ThunderClan when only a chapter before she was torn between her morals and being loyal to ShadoeClan. Nightheart is a scapegoat. She's not a spy, and she's not blindly following him. It's a reverse Nightheart
THORNCLAW IS STILL ALIVE????????????????
I'm definitely one of those people who want to hear you talk about
I can't get over how funny it is Sunbeam chose a mate who has almost the exact same name as her racist mother
why did i read the title as i doubt Sunbeam is gay😂😂😂
Me too!
Lol same!
Sunbeam x Lightleap 🤔🤔
@@waddle..666 i ship it😂
@@Ivypool123 if the Erins allowed same gender mates then I know damn well Sunbeam would consider Lightleap.
8:50 i stg, after ALL the screeching ive been doing about squilf "for sure" becoming leader, if she doesnt or its made out to be a bad thing, imma be real mad
Agreed. She would be an excellent leader and deserves it after all the shit she’s been thru
an enemy spy!
If they make sparkpelt mean again I'll explode
Not my intrusive thoughts to see this without reading the book
feel u😂but i already got spoilert so i dont care anymore
Dam we really gotta be more careful
I read the preview for the River and decided not to bother reading the rest of ASC. So now I'm watching Moonkitti videos to find out the story.
I was terrified when frostpaw "died"
Gosh. For the longest time after I got out of this fandom, I reverted to thinking warrior cats was dumb and childish and that Harry Potter was the best. I love this series so much and I hate Harry Potter now. Thank StarClan I've got my sense back
I was here thinking I'd read all books of the last arc and when I read the comments, I felt lost and then remembered I'd left Shadow in the middle.
It's been a while since I last entered something related to the fandom
Yeah sorry we finished the “ghost possession ‘nice guy’(tm)” arc, we’re entering the “casual xenophobia” arc.
@@radiiclaws8068 oh, man
I kinda dont like Sunbeam x Nightheart, its like rootspring and Bristlefrost 2.0
But I dont think that Sunbeam is a spy. She is just used as a love interest. And used by Nightheart. But it would be interesting for her to become one.
Rootbristle actually had some development as they actually seemed like they loved each other and were willing to give up each others clans for each other although Bristlesfrosts confession comes out of nowhere. Sunbeam and Nightheart is soo… forced. Like they had like three conversations together and then they suddenly are in love enough to become mates. And they don’t really seem like they actually love each other their relationship is so forced.
I'm still hoping that they'll break up. Clearly their relationship isn't going that well and I have a feeling it's not gonna work out because Nightheart is gonna be too busy with the park cats and Sunbeam is gonna be too worried about her mom
@@SaraMoustamandi yeah like rootspring was always the last thing on her mind and she made it clear she only liked him as a friend so that confession kindve came out of left field but at least they actually cared about each other eventually unlike sunbeam and Nightheart
for some reason, all along, I thought Sunbeam would be the leader of Riverclan-
You should talk about the whole riverclan situation, maybe a pt2
if you’re doing theories, i’d love to see you cover the ‘ashfur is dovewing and ivypool’s dad’ theory!
Still rooting for whorlpelt and sunbeam 💪 (they will never get together)
These are always the best
For a moment i thought the name of video was i doubt superman is gay, other than that I agree with this video
I feel like it would be better if Sunbeam left Shadowclan because of all the stuff going on in Shadowclan (her mom and Tigerheartstar) and choosing Thunderclan because she's heard they're pretty chill. And I want her to be upset as Nightheart the same way she was as Lightleap
I've actually not heard this theory! Interesting
Day 7 of thanking moonkitti for being a moonkitti
Id be cool if she was a spy but theres just not really enough reason for her to be so i doubt the erins would. She has shown no hate towards nightheart or thunderclan.
not to be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist but i can buy sunbeam working with her mother a la bristlefrost working for the imposter, although bristlefrost became a double agent right away to my understanding (I have not read a single warrior cats book outside of the original series and some of the mangas when i was like 16). Antagonist arguably, spy definitely, but not evil if the tinfoil hat theory is true.
snunbeme
Can you talk about the theory that Squilf will die before getting her nine lives? I've always been interested in it
Thunderclan is new riverclan now
Could you do something on tallstar?
Tallstars book is one of my favorite books in the super editions and he is just a great character.
here after reading thunder :D
Moonkitti uploaded ✨✨✨✨✨
Vid 7 of asking for a Millie talking vid
Video two of asking for videos about Lizardstripe and Ember!
I'm almost 100% certain that I won't read this arc. Maybe I'll read arc 9 once it comes out, idk, but nothing I've heard of arc 8 has made me want to read it. So...I decided to watch this video despite the spoilers. It sounds like the fans imagined a cool continuation to the story and the authors will probably once again go for the boring option instead.
This arc is actually pretty good and a lot of people enjoy it so far. NightSun is ehhhhh but everything else is cool
Am I the only one who supports NightSun or whatever it should be called I don't fuckin care??
Hi-
Day 3 of asking you about your thoughts on my ships:
Purdy x Daisy
Storm cloud x squilf
Bramblestar x Bumblestripe (the abusive ones)
Bramblestar is 3x if not 4x Bumblestripe’s age
It was a joke because bramble and bumble are both abusive and horrible
made it in 37 seconds :3
Yippie
why does that translate to the same word but with the first letter lowercase RUclips?
Hi
9 min hello
Honestly warrior cats is not wortht reading anymore
No , it's kinda funny
I hope that sparkpelt does be mean bc it added something extra to the books and it was very good for drama. Also I don’t think sunbeam is a spy bc they did it last series but you know warrior cats
I thought book 5 was Thunder
Book 5 will be wind
@@Moonkitti oh
Ye never mind I got confused with book 4
Its funny watching these having not read any of the books in years